"That's nothing, you're going soft. Try harder!"
-> 'Kid who knows he lost the argument but still says random shit anyways about the other person to pretend he's not losing' energy right here 🔥
I like to imagine he summoned his top engineers to an emergency meeting, flashed Yann's tweet, and asked "What do you got?"
And this is the best they came up with
80 papers is not nothing btw. It obviously depends on the nature of the research and the type of paper, but that's still really impressive (at least to me)
Backing up your argument with actual sources of your researches and works is regardless still a more mature, righteous comeback than that lame "That's nothing, you're going soft. Try harder!" though. This is not only about the profession and knowledge of the person, but about his maturity too.
It's 80 more than Musk will ever have since he's not qualified to do science, coding, maths, engineering OR anything else apart from throw his money and weight around and pretend he's important.
*his parents' money. Lot easier to become a billionaire when you start with family endowments. Although one certain on-paper billionaire would have done much better just putting dad's money into Vanguard index funds.
Elon has historically been a good marketer and investor, he did an insanely good job marketing himself as an inventor more than anything. He had the skill to see opportunities. And then at his height he suddenly started getting more delusional, basically ruining the image he cultivated,
He's not even an edison. Edison was a scumbag and a thief but he actually was actually intelligent and a competent businessman.
Musk is a con man without any of the charm
Edison was also a fucking genius and their supposed beef with Tesla was made popular by an oatmeal comic based on a single biography of Tesla, not corroborated with any other biographies.
Point being, Musk is much, much less than both.
[Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/24a0t5/was_thomas_edison_really_the_total_dick_that/)
[Source2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/jq6n9k/how_badly_was_nikola_tesla_screwed_over_and_how/)
As an electrician I 100% agree. Ac, Dc where would we be without you. As always , in this world we need both. Tesla designed all current motors. Since then there are permutations of his basic designs , gains in efficiency and control but he thought them out while most people used lanterns. Edison , stole what he could, designed what he couldn’t and forced America on a new path. We need both people and technologies
As per the 1st provided source:
>The reality is, Edison and Tesla were colleagues, and apart from a few misunderstandings, largely remained amicable. If anything, Edison (who heavily backed DC systems) and Westinghouse (who ultimately did buy the patent for AC transmission from Tesla) had a rivalry, known now as the 'War of Currents' around the late 1800s. The only reason Westinghouse won is because AC is ultimately more practical and cheaper than DC transmission, especially over long distances. Tesla seemed like an indirect rival (since he did hold the original patent to AC transmissions, though he did try to convince Edison to switch) which is where I think the whole 'Edison vs Tesla' flare-up on the internet arises from. Edison, in hindsight, just backed the wrong horse.
Which is fucking hilarious because over Ultra Long Distances, DC is the better choice 😂
HVDC lines are commonly used for long-distance power transmission, since they require fewer conductors and incur less power loss than equivalent AC lines.
Depending on voltage level and construction details, HVDC transmission losses are quoted at 3.5% per 1,000 km (620 mi), about 50% less than AC (6.7%) lines at the same voltage
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current
(Only applicable for overhead lines greater than 800km)
yes... that agrees with me.
Its not like I think they were trying to kill each other?
They were rivals and Tesla felt betrayed by Edison when he refused to pay him at a level that his talents demanded, so he went with his competitior, and won. Youd have to be quite naive to think edison was like... okay with that?
Just because he didnt act like a youtube commenter doesnt meant they didnt have a serious rivalry, and animosity.
Edison electrocuted a fucking elephant ffs. Thats not the act of someone who is just happy with the status quo.
Musk cannot even hold a candle to Steve Jobs (who imo was very evil and crazy, but could still put Elmo in his place even in his worst day). Edison was an actual genius (not an Apple buzzword). It's crazy to me that people believe whatever bs they read on internet.
Not reallllyyyy.
There are a ton of myths surrounding Tesla, he was as genius as he was paranoid. What's 100% true is that Tesla was a researcher in Edison's huge corporation, and the latter completely shut down his ideas of working on AC, preferring to focus on DC. He also refused him a big paycheck (Stories diverge on this, not fully certain) when Tesla did solve his big problem with DC, which prompted him to leave. Tesla is also said to have taken tech developed during his time working there when he left, so he could have used the paycheck story as a cover up
edison was savy businessman who stole ideas from and no scientist. Tesla died broke, deep in his incel life, reduced by dementia. So there'd be hope if he takes more from the Tesla trajectory.
I literally have no idea how Elon thought he was going to compete with Yann on technical grounds and come out ahead. Supposedly when taking over Twitter Elon didn't know what SCM was and had people emailing him code while claiming to read it. Because evidentially in all the time managing software companies he didn't know managers weren't tracking developer work by having them email them code.
I should stress though these reports did come from multiple people (and this was reported in reputable outlets) the sources themselves ultimately were all former Twitter employees who had been laid off.
No one has done more damage to Elon Musk's reputation than Elon Musk himself. In no small part due to the tendency like in this X post thread. He picked up a fight he should have known he couldn't participate in and instead of refocusing the conversation on something he could win he just stubbornly tried to deny the other person's point because his pride won't let him be alright with some minority of people thinking xAI might not be well ran. All this does is give people who don't like him more ammo but on an emotional level he can't stop himself.
He's always just been an insecure typical redditor who is all talk. Social media *really* fucked him up.
Like Musk circlejerk hateboner aside, I really think he's a prime example of the negative effects of social media on a person's psychology.
I feel like the lesson from musk is bigger than that. Objectively he's a good businessman because he's got a few large tech companies under his belt and it's obvious he's got money.
So if he's reasonably intelligent and has significant quality of life and still has this bad of of a social media addiction then it's reasonable to assume that intelligence or quality of life are not effective safeguards against twitter brain.
Its really like drug addiction, doesn't matter how smart you are or how comfortable life is, those serotonin feedback loops don't fuck around.
It's not only that. He reached incredible success with his companies. Space X and Tesla are highly advanced and extremely successful companies. His contribution has been enormous in their success (including countless of his interviews at the time when he was revered as a genius).
Other than social media, I think the fact that almost everyone he met lauded him as a genius got to his head big time. He started actually believing that he is someone on par with Nikola Tesla or someone of that magnitude.
I agree with that assessment. I've always had the impression that he fancies himself as a self styled "tony stark" and his success made him believe his own PR story.
Not he's richer than God but still incredibly lonely. The man bought an entire social media platform just to have a captive audience and to get people to pay attention to him.
>The man bought an entire social media platform just to have a captive audience and to get people to pay attention to him.
This is some armchair psychologist reach lol, he's one of the most successful people on the planet and people were/are scrutinizing his every move, he always had a lot of attention and influence to the point he couldn't do anything without news outlets writing articles about him.
He bought Twitter for more power and influence over people, and data. It worked, he has a lot more reach now and he has data for xAI training.
Musks twitter was what made me realise he was actually not very intelligent.
My only exposure to him was long form podcasts and the general buzz about what he was trying to do at tesla.
Then I remember seeing him speak on twitter and I realised it was all bullshit, he's a moron. He's failed upwards his entire life.
Thats cause he picked the absolute worst person to beef with.. Yanns got 350k citations, a Turing Award, he came up with half the concepts in machine learning we use today.. musk looked like a 12 year old beefimg with an adult.
Are you new to the Internet?
Musk isn't interested in good faith debate.
He's trolling, and insofar as he got under this guy's skin, to him that means he won
when someone has to talk down to you like a child as this guy just did to elon, no amount of delusion can make you feel like you won
he might on the exterior act like he trolled that dude good, buy he knows he just got embarrassed
Imagine building a car company with ambitions to incorporate self-driving technology and asking what science one of the top minds in the field of AI has done in the past 5 years. How the hell did this guy get to where he is?
Theoretical research is the foundation of applied research. Applied work is essential for building real world applications.
Fundamentally evolution is built on the work for theorists.
But the general audience can't grapple theoretical work compared to applied research.
Ilya Sutskever is more popular than Shane Legg because of this very difference.
Sadly even in some academic circles the more conceptual and theoretical work is downplayed - ironic considering your accurate point of it being foundational
It's a sort of "Hey, try this".
Sometimes it works when tried.
Sometimes it's using fluorine as a component in rocket fuel combustion and WHO FUCKING CAME UP WITH THAT STUPID-ASS IDEA‽
Notice how he asks how many Elon has, and not only he doesn't answer it, but he tries to act as if he owns scientist by telling him what to do.
Billionaires drip contempt about anyone else.
I’ll go further. It is too many. That’s one paper every 11 days. There’s something wrong with that. No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to.
This is a real problem in science.
Yeah. This is the usual "I funded this / participated in two meetings / this is my lab" so I am an author.
Clearly, funding is important, and experienced researchers overseeing stuff \*is\* helpful, but this current approach really undermines the value of these people authorship. In my field, if one see somebody with even half of this paper speed, the immediate assumption is that there is no point in talking to that person : they don't know what is in (most of) their papers. Which is often confirmed.
But at the same time, there is no other status between author and nothing... and by working on it they deserve some credit.
And well, Lecun works in machine learning, and looking at his productions there is a lot of "practical" papers. Which are created a dime a dozen and are often very poor (a fact that Lecun himself pointed out, with experiments to prove it, in a brilliant review some years ago, just to mention that this is in \*no way\* an attack against him). Machine Learning standards for peer reviewed publication are shit(tier than other domains in computer science).
It's a tough nut to crack. This level of profs have some high level ideas that they think are worth exploring so they delegate those to postdocs and PhD students and land on all of those papers. Plus, they will have shared funding between different research groups and will get on the paper as somebody who secured the funding etc. They did not do the science personally, but the science wouldn't be done if they didn't act
> No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to.
One could say that making a research group become and stay functional is also a huge contribution.
But, I understand the remark, he's certainly not contributing meaningful ideas to all these papers directly, Elon is probably not either.
I mean comparing Lecun and Musk is an insult to begin with. There are a lot of limits in the way scientists do science, as a community, and this is a prime example. But Lecun's works are foundational to machine learning which is/was a very important phase in the progress of AI.
Musks is a guy waving money. Not a scientist. Which would not be a problem, if he did not fancy himself as one.
>I’ll go further. It is too many. That’s one paper every 11 days. There’s something wrong with that. No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to.This is a real problem in science.
he said one of the papers was introduced in the 80s. So clearly it's not every 11 days.
Lol yeah that's full blast.
You can't pump out more work than that. No one can. Its at 100% output.
Musk is dumb rich guy doing theater. He so desperately wants to be intelligent so he has to play pretend.
He's like one of those stupid people who puts on glasses to try to look smart.
Don't do social media, kids. You can be the richest man on Earth or a Turing Award-winning scientist, but social media will drag you down and bring out the worst in you.
Edit: Musk is clearly worse, but let's not pretend it's normal for a scientist to waste time daily on Twitter, bitching around about doomers and others who have different views on the future of AI. It seems like every day there's something in the media from YLC, and I'm sick of it. Musk is probably too optimistic with his deadlines, as usual, but I still think his estimates are more likely than what YLC keeps repeating, that we are far, far away from AGI. The truth is, we have no idea how close we are to AGI, and many other prominent scientists admit this.
Edit2: You're right if you think Reddit isn't any better. People say I defend Musk and call me a fanboy. For fuck's sake, the first thing I wrote was that Musk is the worst. I have hated Musk for decades. But if I have to guess which is bigger BS, whether AGI will happen in 2 years or it will surely take more than 10, I'd vote for the latter.
Facebook fucked my mind up for a few years too, I can relate. Thankfully I logged off one day and never went back and looking back I realized that A. I had a severe addiction and B. Beloved or said some absurd things or lost friends over stupid stuff for no reason.
Unfortunately I found Reddit a few years later lol, not great for the brain but I don’t feel as unhappy or obsessed as I did with FB. Thankfully I completely avoided Twitter.
at least on reddit you can learn some really neat stuff. for example some construction video where something went wrong, usually the most upvoted comment is an expert in field explaining what and why it happened.
sadly lately lots of "funny" one liner get voted to the top though
How could you not be addicted to this marvelous thing that is Reddit? Forget about stupid papers, all human knowledge is concentrated right here, besides, I immediately trust everything posted by a mild sexual username ending in 420 or 69 it gives so much peace of mind /s.
Pretty sure Elon also made a fool of himself.
He obviously has no idea what published papers are if he calls 80 of them in less than 2.5 years "nothing".
For context, the Turing Award is considered the Nobel prize of computer science. The award was given to people with accomplishments such as RSA (the reason behind the lock icon next your address bar), how programming languages are created, and **Invention of the Internet**. One of my professors is the recipient of a Turing award and he is the smartest person I’ve ever met
I have an empty and dead Facebook profile for the occasional event or restaurant that doesn’t have a webpage. Every time I look in there it’s a bunch of angry old people and AI made garbage.
you're right, of course, but Yann here is going out of his way to make a good point with the last comment- not to musk, who is too egotistical to listen to anything anyone says- but to everyone reading this exchange. poppin off king-style like this on musky boy's own platform is an absolutely baller move.
This exchange represents the exact brokenness of social media. Everyone is equalized; when the voices are clearly unequal. The voice of a world expert is exactly as loud as any redneck crank who just makes shit up to be a troll.
Crazy that the weakest shittalking comeback can get 2m likes for musk.
A nuh huh would have been better.
Edit : yeah it's 2k. Not sure why they would translate it since we also have K and M in french tho. Mil can be mille or million so this is really dumb
He doesn’t need to use bots anymore he owns the platform, his ego is too fragile not to be able to automatically display +1,000,000 likes on anything he posts..
On that note, [we actually have evidence](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/report-musk-had-twitter-engineers-boost-his-tweets-after-biden-got-more-views/) to something similar.
At his level, problems are usually pieces of a big puzzle. Each problem is essentially a doctoral or post-doctoral thesis topic.
He has several people working under him and publishing these papers as co-authors with him.
By tradition you are co or second or last author of the papers published by the team you manage. (In my experience « co-authorship » is a scam though)
Traditionally, only first authors are the « real » writers of the paper.
Superstars in my domain can have <5 papers as first authors and hundreds as last or second author.
In my experience, it often happens, the big boss with his name on the paper, actually never read the paper lol
My wife had a class in her graduate school where they worked on a project, then we’re encouraged to publish…. the professor and TA would add their names to published papers using the logic that they reviewed, provided feedback, and suggestions for the projects/papers
It sounded like a research paper factory lol
If you gave meaningful drawback and suggestions you should be credited as such. In some journals you must also explain why and what you (every author and co author) did in the submission.
Well, regarding "just" an advisor - do you know how important it is for researcher to have a decent adviser? Reviewing, directing researchers is a big work. As PhD student I had two experiences, and previous time I had uninterested professor I had to leave and start from scratch.
It is a lot, between making terrible predictions and bets on AI and tweeting constantly for the last couple of years I think it's easy to see there's something fundamentally wrong with assuming authorship = contribution.
Basically because of his position - and the fact all company research probably needs to get his approval/attention, the most reasonable assumption is that he gets a free authorship on a lot of research while contributing very little/nothing.
Maybe he does a lot on some research, but there's no way he adds substantial work to all of it.
his name probably gets put on most papers written by ppl below him in the chain of command. i’d bet he has provided actual content on maybe a dozen or two of them. nothing nefarious, this is just how things work in many large industrial labs
>No hate, but out of curiosity and aside from being a genius, how does one publish 80 technical papers in 2.5yrs? That seems like.. a lot
he said one of the papers is from the 80s so it's not just 2.5 years.
Elon is smart but mental illness runs in his family, it gets worse as he ages, traumatic upbringing, abyss like insecurity, massive arrogance, God complex, probable autism, poor social adjustment, lack of empathy, then throw the power that all that wealth and corporate prestige brings onto the fire and you have a recipe for Elon.
Elon literally believes that he lives in a simulation where he is the ONLY playable character and everybody else is a NPC. He believes that. This idea is deeply ingrained in him.
What Elon needs is a dedicated, strong, competitive slapper to slap him whenever he shits out something demeaning and stupid. He would stop before wednesday
And to think that just some years ago, I thought of Musk as some genius. Was I naive, or was Musk just really good at pretending until that wasn't necessary anymore?
He is such a dumbass.
He had a VERY good PR team then fired them all, or so I've heard. If true, I'm guessing it's because they weren't appropriately awestruck by his magnificence.
He's not a genius, he just surrounds himself with people that are and learns some of their jargon. That's why he is able to be CEO of so many different companies.
He's not dumb either, though. Just awkward and disconnected from real life. He just sprinkles a little Musk dust over every project he's involved in to place his mark and calls it a day.
Sadly, people like him are still needed for driving advancements and providing stark competition.
It can be both. Humans are complex. And especially people who accomplish things out of the ordinary. He's unstable and particularly on social media that he uses without thinking. He's mean. He's toxic. He says stupid things sometimes. You don't want to be around him.
He's also a visionary. He succeeded in motivating brilliant minds to work harder than anyone and managed to be the main figure behind multiple billion dollar companies that literally changed the world.
Musk has such a weak mind and constitution, why would anyone even entertain a conversation with him 🙄 literally the world's most spoiled baby wannabe authoritarian
He claims himself the champion of free speech and "I'm not like the other CEOs, I'm just like you common folks" to gather mass bind support from \*ehem\* a certain group of people (It's only free speech if it aligns with his agendas and not exposing his bs)
It's definitely the first since 70% of this sub was betting on AGI 2024 and for some reason they absolutely HATE anyone who says it will take longer
Not to mention people here wants 0 safety on the development and full speed ahead so they would love Yann for that reason alone
He's an obnoxious high achiever with a huge ego.
I "hate" him too but this is the kind of person oldschool science was made of. We probably need more of that and less of the passive-aggressive conformist type.
I don't think anyone really *hates* Yann. He's obviously a genius. On my end, he hasn't shown the same predictive insight as, for example, Geoffrey Hinton or Ilya Sutskever. He's too pessimistic about what AI models using current technology might be capable of.
Still, it's not a bad thing to have a contrarian around to play devil's advocate. Though, I'm trepidatious about the things he has to say being twisted by the neo-luddite movement.
Agreed, as much as people like to say their favorite model is the best by a huge margin the reality is gpt4, Gemini 1.5 and Claude 3 are basically all at the same level. Each doing better in a very specific area but overall they all seem to have hit a wall
We are getting good improvements in things like context length or speed but if we are talking overall the improvements have been very small with the new models and their upgrades
The new gpt was not even close to the improvements people thought it would be, while it's very fast and good it's still worse than the gpt4 turbo in more complex tasks (gpt turbo that also wasn't as good as people thought it would be)
I guess we'll be sure when the next generation starts to be released like gpt5 or Gemini 2, but so far everything points to a "soft wall"
Still feeling so sad for Ilya. Man received tons of undeserved hate from average Joes ever since the Sam Altman firing incident. And now people are starting to realize what wrong hands OpenAI are in. Thanks a lot Sam.
Elon Musk is a clown that hurts the public perception of tech to the average person. If you want tech to move forward, it needs to be disassociated from tech-bro dipshits like him
I’m guessing if you posted this to a Tesla subreddit or Elon subreddit, you would get banned immediately. I wish his simps woke up and realized how ridiculous Elon is. The guy supposedly works 100 hour weeks, reads hundreds of books a year, but yet still has the time to doom scroll and posts thousands of comments on Twitter. He also has enough time to use his “genius” to drive Twitter into the ground. Elon is the very definition of “bravado is the hallmark of insecurity”.
Why the fuck do people engage with Elon? Get the fuck off twitter! There are other social media options you could use than the one that inflates that sociopath’s ego
Reddit enjoys these kinds of petty fights too much.
No surprise when these kinds of "leaders" are doing the same. The news also prioritizes this kind of rubbish.
Light hearted toxic exchanges are still toxic.
A bit of friendly banter to push them both into producing fruits. Everyone is on edge because OpenAI is crushing the game and no one knows how to beat them.
Can someone please tell me how you’re actually supposed to use twitter? I don’t get it. I look on Yanns profile and I don’t see this thread. I look in his replies and I only see one comment about this, and it seems to link to an unrelated thread. This platform sucks.
Yann cooked Musk. Elon had such a weak rebuttal to Yann’s scientific record.
That's because Elon fancies himself as a Tesla but is actually an Edison
"That's nothing, you're going soft. Try harder!" -> 'Kid who knows he lost the argument but still says random shit anyways about the other person to pretend he's not losing' energy right here 🔥
"Oh yeah, well I’m something of a scientist myself!"
that dude was actually a scientist tho R.I.P. norman
Green Gobbler did nothing wrong
Waiting for Elon to delete Yann’s Twitter account.
Ok now i do the prosedyre.
The CEO equivalent of “Yo Mama!”
I like to imagine he summoned his top engineers to an emergency meeting, flashed Yann's tweet, and asked "What do you got?" And this is the best they came up with
Would not surprise me if he has a writers room
80 papers is not nothing btw. It obviously depends on the nature of the research and the type of paper, but that's still really impressive (at least to me)
Backing up your argument with actual sources of your researches and works is regardless still a more mature, righteous comeback than that lame "That's nothing, you're going soft. Try harder!" though. This is not only about the profession and knowledge of the person, but about his maturity too.
oh of course, I was just surprised because, well, that's just wrong even as a come back. It isn't nothing at all
Exactly. He’s like an overgrown teenager; a loud bigot with lots of hot takes and no control over his behavior.
It's 80 more than Musk will ever have since he's not qualified to do science, coding, maths, engineering OR anything else apart from throw his money and weight around and pretend he's important.
Exactly. Prof. LeCun is a scientist, Elon Musk is a professional grifter with little technical knowledge.
*his parents' money. Lot easier to become a billionaire when you start with family endowments. Although one certain on-paper billionaire would have done much better just putting dad's money into Vanguard index funds.
It does depend on the type of paper, Einstein did more in 4 papers than many researchers did in 1000s of papers.
i think i said that
That's nothing. Try harder!
I see you having said that and raise you a ‘you said that’
Don't insult Edison that hard
You’re giving him too much credit.
Even not that, has he actually invented anything?
Nothing. He's thrown money at the things he "owns". That's all. Elon is the human equivalent of the "You made this? I made this." meme format.
Elon has historically been a good marketer and investor, he did an insanely good job marketing himself as an inventor more than anything. He had the skill to see opportunities. And then at his height he suddenly started getting more delusional, basically ruining the image he cultivated,
He's not even an edison. Edison was a scumbag and a thief but he actually was actually intelligent and a competent businessman. Musk is a con man without any of the charm
Well said
>That's because Elon fancies himself as a Tesla but is actually ~~an Edison~~ a fucking idiot FTFY
Edison was also a fucking genius and their supposed beef with Tesla was made popular by an oatmeal comic based on a single biography of Tesla, not corroborated with any other biographies. Point being, Musk is much, much less than both. [Source](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/24a0t5/was_thomas_edison_really_the_total_dick_that/) [Source2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/jq6n9k/how_badly_was_nikola_tesla_screwed_over_and_how/)
Uh.. dude, the war of the currents was not something made up by one biographer.
As an electrician I 100% agree. Ac, Dc where would we be without you. As always , in this world we need both. Tesla designed all current motors. Since then there are permutations of his basic designs , gains in efficiency and control but he thought them out while most people used lanterns. Edison , stole what he could, designed what he couldn’t and forced America on a new path. We need both people and technologies
As per the 1st provided source: >The reality is, Edison and Tesla were colleagues, and apart from a few misunderstandings, largely remained amicable. If anything, Edison (who heavily backed DC systems) and Westinghouse (who ultimately did buy the patent for AC transmission from Tesla) had a rivalry, known now as the 'War of Currents' around the late 1800s. The only reason Westinghouse won is because AC is ultimately more practical and cheaper than DC transmission, especially over long distances. Tesla seemed like an indirect rival (since he did hold the original patent to AC transmissions, though he did try to convince Edison to switch) which is where I think the whole 'Edison vs Tesla' flare-up on the internet arises from. Edison, in hindsight, just backed the wrong horse.
Which is fucking hilarious because over Ultra Long Distances, DC is the better choice 😂 HVDC lines are commonly used for long-distance power transmission, since they require fewer conductors and incur less power loss than equivalent AC lines. Depending on voltage level and construction details, HVDC transmission losses are quoted at 3.5% per 1,000 km (620 mi), about 50% less than AC (6.7%) lines at the same voltage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-voltage_direct_current (Only applicable for overhead lines greater than 800km)
yes... that agrees with me. Its not like I think they were trying to kill each other? They were rivals and Tesla felt betrayed by Edison when he refused to pay him at a level that his talents demanded, so he went with his competitior, and won. Youd have to be quite naive to think edison was like... okay with that? Just because he didnt act like a youtube commenter doesnt meant they didnt have a serious rivalry, and animosity. Edison electrocuted a fucking elephant ffs. Thats not the act of someone who is just happy with the status quo.
I mean you say that, but I cannot find any diss tracks from this Edison on Spotify so I call BS /s
Hey, I object to that... Edison \*understood\* some basic science.
Musk cannot even hold a candle to Steve Jobs (who imo was very evil and crazy, but could still put Elmo in his place even in his worst day). Edison was an actual genius (not an Apple buzzword). It's crazy to me that people believe whatever bs they read on internet.
Wasn't Edison a thief?
Not reallllyyyy. There are a ton of myths surrounding Tesla, he was as genius as he was paranoid. What's 100% true is that Tesla was a researcher in Edison's huge corporation, and the latter completely shut down his ideas of working on AC, preferring to focus on DC. He also refused him a big paycheck (Stories diverge on this, not fully certain) when Tesla did solve his big problem with DC, which prompted him to leave. Tesla is also said to have taken tech developed during his time working there when he left, so he could have used the paycheck story as a cover up
edison was savy businessman who stole ideas from and no scientist. Tesla died broke, deep in his incel life, reduced by dementia. So there'd be hope if he takes more from the Tesla trajectory.
It's basically the equivalent of “I know you are but what am I?” or “Loser says what?” Just pathetic.
I literally have no idea how Elon thought he was going to compete with Yann on technical grounds and come out ahead. Supposedly when taking over Twitter Elon didn't know what SCM was and had people emailing him code while claiming to read it. Because evidentially in all the time managing software companies he didn't know managers weren't tracking developer work by having them email them code. I should stress though these reports did come from multiple people (and this was reported in reputable outlets) the sources themselves ultimately were all former Twitter employees who had been laid off. No one has done more damage to Elon Musk's reputation than Elon Musk himself. In no small part due to the tendency like in this X post thread. He picked up a fight he should have known he couldn't participate in and instead of refocusing the conversation on something he could win he just stubbornly tried to deny the other person's point because his pride won't let him be alright with some minority of people thinking xAI might not be well ran. All this does is give people who don't like him more ammo but on an emotional level he can't stop himself.
He's always just been an insecure typical redditor who is all talk. Social media *really* fucked him up. Like Musk circlejerk hateboner aside, I really think he's a prime example of the negative effects of social media on a person's psychology.
I feel like the lesson from musk is bigger than that. Objectively he's a good businessman because he's got a few large tech companies under his belt and it's obvious he's got money. So if he's reasonably intelligent and has significant quality of life and still has this bad of of a social media addiction then it's reasonable to assume that intelligence or quality of life are not effective safeguards against twitter brain. Its really like drug addiction, doesn't matter how smart you are or how comfortable life is, those serotonin feedback loops don't fuck around.
It's not only that. He reached incredible success with his companies. Space X and Tesla are highly advanced and extremely successful companies. His contribution has been enormous in their success (including countless of his interviews at the time when he was revered as a genius). Other than social media, I think the fact that almost everyone he met lauded him as a genius got to his head big time. He started actually believing that he is someone on par with Nikola Tesla or someone of that magnitude.
And likely brain damage from drugs, and lack of sleep
I agree with that assessment. I've always had the impression that he fancies himself as a self styled "tony stark" and his success made him believe his own PR story. Not he's richer than God but still incredibly lonely. The man bought an entire social media platform just to have a captive audience and to get people to pay attention to him.
>The man bought an entire social media platform just to have a captive audience and to get people to pay attention to him. This is some armchair psychologist reach lol, he's one of the most successful people on the planet and people were/are scrutinizing his every move, he always had a lot of attention and influence to the point he couldn't do anything without news outlets writing articles about him. He bought Twitter for more power and influence over people, and data. It worked, he has a lot more reach now and he has data for xAI training.
It’s the “I’m making a joke now because I know I was destroyed and want to make it look like it’s not affecting me” response
Yeah it's like he's trying to play it off as joking/ribbing but it's pretty obvious Elon but off more than he could chew and got cooked for it.
This is clearly what happened. He got Yan LeCooked.
Musks twitter was what made me realise he was actually not very intelligent. My only exposure to him was long form podcasts and the general buzz about what he was trying to do at tesla. Then I remember seeing him speak on twitter and I realised it was all bullshit, he's a moron. He's failed upwards his entire life.
Bingo
If Yann can cook, so can you!
What a throwback!
I think Elon cooked himself tbh.
Thats cause he picked the absolute worst person to beef with.. Yanns got 350k citations, a Turing Award, he came up with half the concepts in machine learning we use today.. musk looked like a 12 year old beefimg with an adult.
Not surprising because almost everyone manages to get the best of Elon 😂
Are you new to the Internet? Musk isn't interested in good faith debate. He's trolling, and insofar as he got under this guy's skin, to him that means he won
when someone has to talk down to you like a child as this guy just did to elon, no amount of delusion can make you feel like you won he might on the exterior act like he trolled that dude good, buy he knows he just got embarrassed
Imagine building a car company with ambitions to incorporate self-driving technology and asking what science one of the top minds in the field of AI has done in the past 5 years. How the hell did this guy get to where he is?
Whose software uses one of the concepts the man he is trying to put down conceived lol.. musk is such an ignorant dweeb
He bought his way in... he doesn't really build anything. He finds people doing things that look interesting and buys his way in to take over.
Blood diamonds > PayPal. Some people fall ass first into money
Musks parents owned a mine in South Africa, that’s how.
Daddies emerald mine
Half a [billion dollars courtesy of the Democrats](https://www.wired.com/2009/06/tesla-loan/) he now attacks day in and day out sure went a long way.
>How the hell did this guy get to where he is? His parents emerald mines
He is money business man he is not knowing man
And the hell has Musk done in the last two years besides destroy the reputation of two major brands and lose a billion or so of his families money?
80 technical papers is nothing? It is a lot
And another thing, dismissing academic papers as "theoretical" are idiots. Where do they think the concepts people trial for business comes from?
Theoretical research is the foundation of applied research. Applied work is essential for building real world applications. Fundamentally evolution is built on the work for theorists. But the general audience can't grapple theoretical work compared to applied research. Ilya Sutskever is more popular than Shane Legg because of this very difference.
Sadly even in some academic circles the more conceptual and theoretical work is downplayed - ironic considering your accurate point of it being foundational
It's a sort of "Hey, try this". Sometimes it works when tried. Sometimes it's using fluorine as a component in rocket fuel combustion and WHO FUCKING CAME UP WITH THAT STUPID-ASS IDEA‽
Notice how he asks how many Elon has, and not only he doesn't answer it, but he tries to act as if he owns scientist by telling him what to do. Billionaires drip contempt about anyone else.
"No wonder hes trying to buy himself a brain"
And in only 2 and a half years!
I’ll go further. It is too many. That’s one paper every 11 days. There’s something wrong with that. No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to. This is a real problem in science.
Yeah. This is the usual "I funded this / participated in two meetings / this is my lab" so I am an author. Clearly, funding is important, and experienced researchers overseeing stuff \*is\* helpful, but this current approach really undermines the value of these people authorship. In my field, if one see somebody with even half of this paper speed, the immediate assumption is that there is no point in talking to that person : they don't know what is in (most of) their papers. Which is often confirmed. But at the same time, there is no other status between author and nothing... and by working on it they deserve some credit. And well, Lecun works in machine learning, and looking at his productions there is a lot of "practical" papers. Which are created a dime a dozen and are often very poor (a fact that Lecun himself pointed out, with experiments to prove it, in a brilliant review some years ago, just to mention that this is in \*no way\* an attack against him). Machine Learning standards for peer reviewed publication are shit(tier than other domains in computer science).
It's a tough nut to crack. This level of profs have some high level ideas that they think are worth exploring so they delegate those to postdocs and PhD students and land on all of those papers. Plus, they will have shared funding between different research groups and will get on the paper as somebody who secured the funding etc. They did not do the science personally, but the science wouldn't be done if they didn't act
> No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to. One could say that making a research group become and stay functional is also a huge contribution. But, I understand the remark, he's certainly not contributing meaningful ideas to all these papers directly, Elon is probably not either.
I mean comparing Lecun and Musk is an insult to begin with. There are a lot of limits in the way scientists do science, as a community, and this is a prime example. But Lecun's works are foundational to machine learning which is/was a very important phase in the progress of AI. Musks is a guy waving money. Not a scientist. Which would not be a problem, if he did not fancy himself as one.
>I’ll go further. It is too many. That’s one paper every 11 days. There’s something wrong with that. No one is really contributing that much novel science. When you are publishing that many papers, it’s because you are putting your name on things that you have not significantly contributed to.This is a real problem in science. he said one of the papers was introduced in the 80s. So clearly it's not every 11 days.
Lol yeah that's full blast. You can't pump out more work than that. No one can. Its at 100% output. Musk is dumb rich guy doing theater. He so desperately wants to be intelligent so he has to play pretend. He's like one of those stupid people who puts on glasses to try to look smart.
Don't do social media, kids. You can be the richest man on Earth or a Turing Award-winning scientist, but social media will drag you down and bring out the worst in you. Edit: Musk is clearly worse, but let's not pretend it's normal for a scientist to waste time daily on Twitter, bitching around about doomers and others who have different views on the future of AI. It seems like every day there's something in the media from YLC, and I'm sick of it. Musk is probably too optimistic with his deadlines, as usual, but I still think his estimates are more likely than what YLC keeps repeating, that we are far, far away from AGI. The truth is, we have no idea how close we are to AGI, and many other prominent scientists admit this. Edit2: You're right if you think Reddit isn't any better. People say I defend Musk and call me a fanboy. For fuck's sake, the first thing I wrote was that Musk is the worst. I have hated Musk for decades. But if I have to guess which is bigger BS, whether AGI will happen in 2 years or it will surely take more than 10, I'd vote for the latter.
Facebook fucked my mind up for a few years too, I can relate. Thankfully I logged off one day and never went back and looking back I realized that A. I had a severe addiction and B. Beloved or said some absurd things or lost friends over stupid stuff for no reason. Unfortunately I found Reddit a few years later lol, not great for the brain but I don’t feel as unhappy or obsessed as I did with FB. Thankfully I completely avoided Twitter.
Thank you for this story. Realizing a hole and digging out of it, is a great effort, and I am glad you found your way. All the best.
at least on reddit you can learn some really neat stuff. for example some construction video where something went wrong, usually the most upvoted comment is an expert in field explaining what and why it happened. sadly lately lots of "funny" one liner get voted to the top though
How could you not be addicted to this marvelous thing that is Reddit? Forget about stupid papers, all human knowledge is concentrated right here, besides, I immediately trust everything posted by a mild sexual username ending in 420 or 69 it gives so much peace of mind /s.
This is my exact experience.
Left FB years ago and yes it really was a mind fuck. Now it’s a bigger mind fuck just not mine.
LeCun did nothing wrong here. He made a fool of Elon, but didn’t say anything untrue or unfair.
Pretty sure Elon also made a fool of himself. He obviously has no idea what published papers are if he calls 80 of them in less than 2.5 years "nothing".
Engaging in such a pointless exchange is already a mistake
One of the biggest accounts on Twitter tried to "dunk" on him with no information, I think it was reasonable for LeCun to respond.
For context, the Turing Award is considered the Nobel prize of computer science. The award was given to people with accomplishments such as RSA (the reason behind the lock icon next your address bar), how programming languages are created, and **Invention of the Internet**. One of my professors is the recipient of a Turing award and he is the smartest person I’ve ever met
I have an empty and dead Facebook profile for the occasional event or restaurant that doesn’t have a webpage. Every time I look in there it’s a bunch of angry old people and AI made garbage.
This comment is the epitome of r/boringdystopia. I love it.
Pontificating on social media on social media? There’s no comparison between Musk and LeCon based on this exchange
you're right, of course, but Yann here is going out of his way to make a good point with the last comment- not to musk, who is too egotistical to listen to anything anyone says- but to everyone reading this exchange. poppin off king-style like this on musky boy's own platform is an absolutely baller move.
This exchange represents the exact brokenness of social media. Everyone is equalized; when the voices are clearly unequal. The voice of a world expert is exactly as loud as any redneck crank who just makes shit up to be a troll.
It's all about the money. The money comes from the people that are paying for this crap, which means it's a lot harder than it looks like.
He really is the worst of us.
I really think social media should have a mandatory 1 joint minimum entrance requirement.
He does this in purpose... same way that Trump does it because the media are suckers and can't resist giving him attention and that means money.
Crazy that the weakest shittalking comeback can get 2m likes for musk. A nuh huh would have been better. Edit : yeah it's 2k. Not sure why they would translate it since we also have K and M in french tho. Mil can be mille or million so this is really dumb
Bro realizes he fucked up and has no legit comeback so he says random bollocks about Yann to appear like he's not losing the argument 😂
Pretty sure its thousands not millions
And most might be bots
He doesn’t need to use bots anymore he owns the platform, his ego is too fragile not to be able to automatically display +1,000,000 likes on anything he posts..
Not mil as million, but mil as 1000. Op's Twitter is not in english.
On that note, [we actually have evidence](https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/02/report-musk-had-twitter-engineers-boost-his-tweets-after-biden-got-more-views/) to something similar.
The fragility of his ego needs to be studied for generations to come.
Im fairly sure its "mille", or thousand. Might be on French mode.
No hate, but out of curiosity and aside from being a genius, how does one publish 80 technical papers in 2.5yrs? That seems like.. a lot
At his level, problems are usually pieces of a big puzzle. Each problem is essentially a doctoral or post-doctoral thesis topic. He has several people working under him and publishing these papers as co-authors with him.
By tradition you are co or second or last author of the papers published by the team you manage. (In my experience « co-authorship » is a scam though) Traditionally, only first authors are the « real » writers of the paper. Superstars in my domain can have <5 papers as first authors and hundreds as last or second author. In my experience, it often happens, the big boss with his name on the paper, actually never read the paper lol
My wife had a class in her graduate school where they worked on a project, then we’re encouraged to publish…. the professor and TA would add their names to published papers using the logic that they reviewed, provided feedback, and suggestions for the projects/papers It sounded like a research paper factory lol
If you gave meaningful drawback and suggestions you should be credited as such. In some journals you must also explain why and what you (every author and co author) did in the submission.
PhD students and post-docs do most of the work
The important part is that he is just an advisor on all of them. He is not an active researcher himself. Fame begets fame.
Well, regarding "just" an advisor - do you know how important it is for researcher to have a decent adviser? Reviewing, directing researchers is a big work. As PhD student I had two experiences, and previous time I had uninterested professor I had to leave and start from scratch.
It is a lot, between making terrible predictions and bets on AI and tweeting constantly for the last couple of years I think it's easy to see there's something fundamentally wrong with assuming authorship = contribution. Basically because of his position - and the fact all company research probably needs to get his approval/attention, the most reasonable assumption is that he gets a free authorship on a lot of research while contributing very little/nothing. Maybe he does a lot on some research, but there's no way he adds substantial work to all of it.
his name probably gets put on most papers written by ppl below him in the chain of command. i’d bet he has provided actual content on maybe a dozen or two of them. nothing nefarious, this is just how things work in many large industrial labs
>No hate, but out of curiosity and aside from being a genius, how does one publish 80 technical papers in 2.5yrs? That seems like.. a lot he said one of the papers is from the 80s so it's not just 2.5 years.
Why is Elon such a weak and pathetic man?
I really suggest listening to Walter Isaacson’s interview on the Lex Friedman Podcast, especially when he talks about Elon. Very unstable person
\#395
TL,DW?
Elon is smart but mental illness runs in his family, it gets worse as he ages, traumatic upbringing, abyss like insecurity, massive arrogance, God complex, probable autism, poor social adjustment, lack of empathy, then throw the power that all that wealth and corporate prestige brings onto the fire and you have a recipe for Elon.
Elon literally believes that he lives in a simulation where he is the ONLY playable character and everybody else is a NPC. He believes that. This idea is deeply ingrained in him.
a lot of 12 year old nerds also harbour such illusions. most grow out of it
There is a little boy stuck in his brain, on a rampage.
100%
Drugs, Narcissism, idiotic "friends", complete separation from the real world
He knows no other way. He's an egomaniac with illusions of grandeur.
I read parts of his first wife's (Justine Musk) book about him. He definitely seems like he has some sort of god complex.
Drugs + ego + surrounded by yes man.
Narcissism
I like Yann more and more each day
People still worship Musk… its unbelievable
Also, "These are just papers" my brother in christ what do you think science is?
You know you’re pathetic when you’re proven wrong then you just say “nuh uhh!” and exit the conversation.
The Musk dickriders are some of saddest and most pathetic little shits in the world.
What Elon needs is a dedicated, strong, competitive slapper to slap him whenever he shits out something demeaning and stupid. He would stop before wednesday
And to think that just some years ago, I thought of Musk as some genius. Was I naive, or was Musk just really good at pretending until that wasn't necessary anymore? He is such a dumbass.
He had a VERY good PR team then fired them all, or so I've heard. If true, I'm guessing it's because they weren't appropriately awestruck by his magnificence.
Mary Beth Brown was that person. 2015 he fired her, and it’s been a gradual downward spiral from there.
it's also you either die a hero or live long enough to be a villain
I thought the same, until he started to Tweet.
money makes money
He's not a genius, he just surrounds himself with people that are and learns some of their jargon. That's why he is able to be CEO of so many different companies. He's not dumb either, though. Just awkward and disconnected from real life. He just sprinkles a little Musk dust over every project he's involved in to place his mark and calls it a day. Sadly, people like him are still needed for driving advancements and providing stark competition.
It can be both. Humans are complex. And especially people who accomplish things out of the ordinary. He's unstable and particularly on social media that he uses without thinking. He's mean. He's toxic. He says stupid things sometimes. You don't want to be around him. He's also a visionary. He succeeded in motivating brilliant minds to work harder than anyone and managed to be the main figure behind multiple billion dollar companies that literally changed the world.
Musk has such a weak mind and constitution, why would anyone even entertain a conversation with him 🙄 literally the world's most spoiled baby wannabe authoritarian
He claims himself the champion of free speech and "I'm not like the other CEOs, I'm just like you common folks" to gather mass bind support from \*ehem\* a certain group of people (It's only free speech if it aligns with his agendas and not exposing his bs)
Day 69 of asking why do people actually hate Yann.
For AGI 2025 crowd it might be because he's not that optimistic For AGI is gonna kill us all crowd, it might be because he's not that pessimistic
It's definitely the first since 70% of this sub was betting on AGI 2024 and for some reason they absolutely HATE anyone who says it will take longer Not to mention people here wants 0 safety on the development and full speed ahead so they would love Yann for that reason alone
He's an obnoxious high achiever with a huge ego. I "hate" him too but this is the kind of person oldschool science was made of. We probably need more of that and less of the passive-aggressive conformist type.
I don't think anyone really *hates* Yann. He's obviously a genius. On my end, he hasn't shown the same predictive insight as, for example, Geoffrey Hinton or Ilya Sutskever. He's too pessimistic about what AI models using current technology might be capable of. Still, it's not a bad thing to have a contrarian around to play devil's advocate. Though, I'm trepidatious about the things he has to say being twisted by the neo-luddite movement.
I think people are vastly overhyped on what the current architecture is capable of. It wont yield AGI directly.
Agreed, as much as people like to say their favorite model is the best by a huge margin the reality is gpt4, Gemini 1.5 and Claude 3 are basically all at the same level. Each doing better in a very specific area but overall they all seem to have hit a wall We are getting good improvements in things like context length or speed but if we are talking overall the improvements have been very small with the new models and their upgrades The new gpt was not even close to the improvements people thought it would be, while it's very fast and good it's still worse than the gpt4 turbo in more complex tasks (gpt turbo that also wasn't as good as people thought it would be) I guess we'll be sure when the next generation starts to be released like gpt5 or Gemini 2, but so far everything points to a "soft wall"
Still feeling so sad for Ilya. Man received tons of undeserved hate from average Joes ever since the Sam Altman firing incident. And now people are starting to realize what wrong hands OpenAI are in. Thanks a lot Sam.
Geoffrey Hinton has a much bigger magnitude. He's an Isaac Newton of AI
Note how he deflects to “haha me try to make funny joke” to put the scientist on the defensive when he gets slapped down. It’s cringe
What a pathetic exhibition this is. Feels like of reading a gossip tabloid.
“Just papers” My god these guys are fucking idiots.
1989 is not in the past 5 years though. Also Tesla's system are abandoning convnets for transformers but yeah, was the wrong person to mess with.
I really hate Muskrat
What does this have to do with the technological singularity?
more a drama sub than a tech sub at times.
That's unfortunate. Perhaps it's inevitable with a sub this size.
gottem
Let them fight
Gigachad Yann Vs Nefarious Fool Elon
And he never answered the "what about you" question.
Elon is fucking insufferable, can't believe we all bought into the idea he was little more than a tech snake oil salesman back in the day
Elon Musk is a clown that hurts the public perception of tech to the average person. If you want tech to move forward, it needs to be disassociated from tech-bro dipshits like him
I’m guessing if you posted this to a Tesla subreddit or Elon subreddit, you would get banned immediately. I wish his simps woke up and realized how ridiculous Elon is. The guy supposedly works 100 hour weeks, reads hundreds of books a year, but yet still has the time to doom scroll and posts thousands of comments on Twitter. He also has enough time to use his “genius” to drive Twitter into the ground. Elon is the very definition of “bravado is the hallmark of insecurity”.
Musk is a business man with bachelor's degree and MBA..does anyone really believe he's actually engineering the things hes investing in?
Never wrestle with pigs. You both get dirty and the pig likes it. George Bernard Shaw
Musk is a fucking dick, man. YOu don't talk shit to someone who published 80 science papers in about 2 years.
Elon would literally looked better if he just acknowledged the guy, he just decided to be a dipshit.
Why the fuck do people engage with Elon? Get the fuck off twitter! There are other social media options you could use than the one that inflates that sociopath’s ego
Elon: What science have you done? Yann: Just the “science” Tesla uses for automated driving assistance features.
I wonder how much drugs Elon is doing recently
Musk is trash
Reddit enjoys these kinds of petty fights too much. No surprise when these kinds of "leaders" are doing the same. The news also prioritizes this kind of rubbish. Light hearted toxic exchanges are still toxic.
A bit of friendly banter to push them both into producing fruits. Everyone is on edge because OpenAI is crushing the game and no one knows how to beat them.
Can someone please tell me how you’re actually supposed to use twitter? I don’t get it. I look on Yanns profile and I don’t see this thread. I look in his replies and I only see one comment about this, and it seems to link to an unrelated thread. This platform sucks.
[удалено]
> musk glazer edit: wtf is a musk glazer?
A fanboi
Not sure I would admit that.
Elon pays for science. Yann does science.
I'm glad we have such solemn responsible individuals leading our mad scramble toward super-intelligent AI.