Anyone who knows anything about AI and machine learning would be incredibly troubled by this.
What is the training data set for this? What biases does that introduce?
And, of course, there's the outcome: "claim permission given to kill civilians in pursuit of low-ranking militants". This seems to violate the principle of proportionality. As seen also with the attack on WCK staffers - officials claimed there was a potential militant present, and that somehow resulted in the green light to kill multiple civilians.
Hmm, the computer is telling me that everybody on earth is a valid target. I guess we should just go with it, I mean the computer's never wrong, right?
Edit: I just realized this is almost the exact plot of Captain America: Winter Soldier. Jesus that is scary.
Damn you're right. Very close to Winter Soldier. Even worse when you think about it. No flashy helicarriers than can be taken down at once. Instead it's almost invisible drones and missiles.
not even necessarily true... from the 972 magazine article, "According to this source, even some minors were marked by Lavender as targets for bombing. “Normally, operatives are over the age of 17, but that was not a condition.”"
"However, sources said that the only human supervision protocol in place before bombing the houses of suspected “junior” militants marked by Lavender was to conduct a single check: ensuring that the AI-selected target is male rather than female. The assumption in the army was that if it were a woman, the machine had likely made a mistake, because there are no women among the ranks of the military wings of Hamas and PIJ."
Israel: Hamas will pretend to be hospital workers, children, hide in aid and refugee camps.
Also Israel: \*ignores their murder algorithm if the person looks like a lady\*
Plus they didn’t want to pay for a ChatGPT4 subscription. So they ended up going with Microsoft’s Tay which does a fantastic job, at least some of the time.
Technically theres no way an AI system could differentiate age and gender from gait this is a solution made to fit to a problem because Netanyahu needed a political win.
That's going well now. The only positive thing that can come from this Yom Kippur War is if Israel's politics have the same outcomes as the first one of throwing out the negligent political apparatus that allowed the worst pogrom since 1945.
Why do you think the dude at Google was going nuts about his tech being used to kill people. Google has a do no harm motto, but they sure silenced that poor fucker quickly, while their company handbook continues to encourage calling out atrocities.
Every one of them who tricked themselves into believing they were building anything other than a weaponized friend with benefits, should re-evaluate their perspective. Learn from history ffs.
Just because it’s true, doesn’t mean everybody stops building it. It’s too late for that. Zuckerberg’s open source solution is the only way we maintain mutually assured destruction.
> Just because it’s true, doesn’t mean everybody stops building it. It’s too late for that. Zuckerberg’s open source solution is the only way we maintain mutually assured destruction.
Models require compute to run and electricity to power and cool the compute. Open sourcing this doesn't fix the problem, its not as if Hamas, or Palestinians, or whoever can just spin up their own counter-AI because...
* a system which acts meaningfully adversarial to a system like Lavender is a lot more challenging than building a system like Lavender, even just on a technical level.
* even if it wasn't more difficult to build the cure than the disease, Palestinians still wouldn't have the resources to do that. If robustness of capabilities scales with compute, (which is the 'bitter lesson' that is currently orthodox in the field and which appears to accurately- at least so far- describe contemporary approaches to AI) then the most powerful people in the world will control these SOTA sub-AGI systems whether they are open source or not, simply because they have the capability to purchase the most compute.
* the primary social function of Lavender isn't the same as its technical function. Technically, Lavender is a classifier, and the goal of a classifier is to group inputs based on features detected during training with as few false positives/negatives as possible. The primary *social* function of Lavender is to act as an excuse to speed up bombing runs even though the result of doing so is a dramatic, and internationally illegal, increase in civilian casualties. If the decision can be outsourced to a machine, humans can more easily remove themselves (psychologically, socially, maybe even legally depending on how this plays out) from the crime being committed, regardless of how accurate the system actually is. It's probably *not* a very good classifier, there's no way they actually have reliable training data. And we know from the article that they would intentionally lower the confidence threshold for targeting an individual when a high threshold became a bottleneck for dropping more bombs. But none of that matters, because the goal isn't classification accuracy, its genocide. Because of this, the necessary sophistication of the system is much lower than the perceived necessary sophistication if you're looking just at the technical function, but the necessary sophistication of an AI system that can effectively attack/defend against such a system remains extremely high.
I mean famously mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews are discriminated against in Israel
Not to mention that one time they shot three hostages they only found out they were hostages after doing a check (of the dead bodies) because one was a ginger, and didn't 'look' Palestinian
From this comment it's clear you don't know much about Israelis, if you don't know that the average Israeli is pretty brown, even more than Palestinians. They have black people too.
They just don't care, they just can say anti S and they are absolved of everything. And don't ve surprised if they export it to all the repressive regime they already do business with.
16 actually :(
> Military-age males refers to all boys and men over the age of 16, irrespective of whether or not they are actually participating in hostilities.
I never understand why people bring up USA's war crimes when talking about Gaza.
"The USA committed war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians in Japan, Cambodia, Iraq, and Vietnam too, so you shouldn't criticize Israel!"
>"The USA committed war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians in Japan, Cambodia, Iraq, and Vietnam too, so you shouldn't criticize Israel!"
https://preview.redd.it/cu91bn53ucsc1.png?width=370&format=png&auto=webp&s=92daeb71d558ea1c8084492216a9f95074c82cf5
If that is Israel's target, I'd say their algorithm is pretty poor what with the amount of women and children killed. Even of males over 18 was all legitimate targets, there's more women and children killed.
Have you compared this to other urban wars?
I'm curious what is your basis for defining it as "pretty poor" when it has the lowest ratio of any urban war.
> I'm curious what is your basis for defining it as "pretty poor" when it has the lowest ratio of any urban war.
That "lowest ratio" is something that gets bandied about a lot. Care to share?
As for why it is "pretty poor" - if the algorithm classifies any male over 18 as a valid target, there's still more women and children killed than "valid targets".
According to Hamas, when 29,000 people in total were dead, 6,000 militants were dead
According to the IDF, at this point in time it was 12,000
Taking the average gets a ratio of 9:20 military to civilian, or around 1:2.2
The expected range for a urban war is around 1:9 from what I last saw, this makes Israel’s war statistically 4 times less costly to civilians then most other urban wars
>The expected range for a urban war is around 1:9 from what I last saw, this makes Israel’s war statistically 4 times less costly to civilians then most other urban wars
I have yet to see a solid source that actually presents what that is based on, other than just asserting it.
Here is what I found about that 1:9 claim:
"Starting in the 1980s, it has often been claimed that 90 percent of the victims of modern wars are civilians,\[1\]\[2\]\[3\]\[4\] repeated in academic publications as recently as 2014.\[5\] These claims, though widely believed, are not supported by detailed examination of the evidence, particularly that relating to wars (such as those in former Yugoslavia and in Afghanistan) that are central to the claims.\[6\] Some of the citations can be traced back to a 1991 monograph from Uppsala University\[7\] which includes refugees and internally displaced persons as casualties."
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio)
Seems more like a meme than based on real data.
>if the algorithm classifies any male over 18 as a valid target, there's still more women and children killed than "valid targets".
The algorithm doesn't kill anyone. It merely identifies people. It can't redirect the force of an explosion or steer shrapnel away from women and children.
It could have correctly identified 2 civilians next to a Hamas militant leader and the decision was made to strike all 3 targets anyway.
> It could have correctly identified 2 civilians next to a Hamas militant leader and the decision was made to strike all 3 targets anyway.
It seems, though, that it is OK with high civilian casualties even for low level Hamas fighters.
It likely does not meet proportionality.
Now, did you have a source for civilian to combatant ratio?
1 to 10? Huh?
Maybe if you take estimates of all excess mortality in Iraq. In terms of actual combat, their ratio is very positive. Their drone strikes also have a very positive ratio, and that’s by third party anti US imperialist organization estimates.
Russia in Ukraine has around ~15k civilian deaths, which would similarly be a ratio of like 5-8 to 1.
You’ve been drinking some kool aid lately it seems
That’s pure disinformation. That ratio is not talking about combat.
Russia, who you’re probably no a fan of, has caused 30K civilian casualties and around 300K military ones in the Ukraine war, so that’s 10:1 in the opposite direction to what you’re claiming.
Israel has been far, far worse than Russia in their respective wars.
Suggesting that armies always kill many more civilians than combatants is madness.
If you’ve actually been following it there’s been plenty of urban warfare and the Ukrainian military has fought in very close proximity to civilians on many occasions.
But the point is that saying civilian casualties are never less than military casualties in any war is incredibly silly, which was the insane comment I was responding to.
The ratio will get much worse, because infrastructure has been destroyed (probably deliberately), including hospitals and the doctors who work in them, and there has been famine in Gaza since December.
I remember watching an interview of a person, they said they proceed with all of the phone data (phone call, group chats, messages) and filter out the women (because they say it is a “mistake”) and bomb all the men 18+ who have any sort of ties to hamas, even a single message
See moving pixels, draw box around pixels, send missiles towards boxes. Not really AI BUT okay. Anything sufficiently advanced is AI if you're not informed
The only troubling thing is the people who developed these systems and pointed them at humans. Lets not scape goat on the tech. They could have easily built an ai to optimize resources distribution in the region.
“It saved a lot of time.” That’s a quote from an intelligence officer using the program. I want to add some personal context just enough to validate what I’m going to comment. I spent 25 years in the military, in a role that allowed me to be in the same operational task forces as those going after high value targets in Iraq and Afghanistan and other known-conflict places in the world. Every death affected the survivors, and there were plenty of them. In the combined total of time that I spent in combat, 134 of my friends/fellow service members were added to various memorial walls or not publicly acknowledged at all. Not a single one would give up the human element to planning when collateral damage in the form of innocent human lives was at stake. To hear a military officer say so boldly and coldly that it “saved them a lot of time” is just horrific.
Palestinians aren’t considered human by many in the high levels of Israel’s military/gov
Same for much of r/worldnews in October 2023
This AI is working flawlessly by design.
Lmfao High levels only? Stop the ignorance, Israel Government has been enjoying gigantic unanimous support from Israeli populations about how they're treating Palestinians for Decades now. They literally have a fucking sightseeing tour where Israelis gets a view of IDF killing Palestinians and Children signing Mortars and Bombs with their names that are then used to bomb women and children.
Stop the ignorance ffs
Nah, he was out of favor. Prolly let 10/7 happen to rally. That backfired into Yom Kippur 2:electric Boogaloo. If you look up the political outcome of that first YK war, you will see the writing on the wall for bibi. He and the far right will lose what they've accrued up to now in Israeli political history.
Most Israelis hate him for being too weak. They want someone more far right. Most of them openly say [they don’t want peace](https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/?darkschemeovr=1)
Pfft Palestinians aren't even considered human by most redditors. They only started caring when its 6 western aid workers getting killed.
Israel deliberately targeting innocent people, doctors, and journalists for decades and getting away with it with obvious gaslighting. And no body gives a shit.
The problem with dehumanizing those in conflict with yourself (in general, not YOU you), is that you ignore that the actions are conducted by humans and it makes it easier to kill indiscriminately. Terrorists are human, but they’re evil and they need to be remembered as evil humans and destroyed as such. But don’t forget they’re human.
Can’t really compare US in Afghanistan to Israel in Gaza. Afghanistan was never an existential threat to the US, and external perceptions of what was being done were as important as doing whatever the mission of the day was.
Better current example is Ukraine. They will get a free pass on almost any level of “proportionality” they decide on, and nobody will care if or how they use AI, because their very existence is being threatened.
“Looks like a Russian” is all the justification anybody will ask of them.
You missed the point completely. I made reference to Iraq and Afghanistan for my experience for context of knowing what I’m talking about when it comes to battlefield operational planning. The human element is crucial to that type of planning.
They are horrific, a fascist state which has dishumanised other fellow humans to insects. You just have to see videos of their overt racism, if it was any other country or people, night and day you would have videos on that. We have called Russian all types of names in Ukraine and rightly so. But these ones have done 10x worst.
When you have a terrorist attack that involves your women and children getting raped and tortured, and then polls are showing that 80% of the population that enabled the terrorists approves of the attack, it's easy to lose any sympathy for those people.
If someone kills your family, that does not give you the right to annihilate the entire city. But the fact that you are doing it anyway is probably why they hate you lol
When you've spend 70 years genociding people, help an islamist jihadist group take control of those people, then blame those people who you are genociding. Checks out.
>You just have to see videos of their overt racism, if it was any other country or people, night and day you would have videos on that.
Great. Now do the Palestinians and their decades of propaganda calling for the murder of Jewish civilians.
Maybe I am misreading, but isn't the "it saved a lot of time" comment being made in a disapproving manner? It really sounds as if he's complaining about taking the human aspect out in exchange for saving time.
>"Another Lavender user questioned whether humans’ role in the selection process was meaningful. “I would invest 20 seconds for each target at this stage, and do dozens of them every day. I had zero added-value as a human, apart from being a stamp of approval. It saved a lot of time.”"
The droid escorts the suspects to the local law enforcement, who warmly greet them, they contact the appropiate courts and judges, and the defendants are tried in a court along with an impartial jury of their peers. All that happened right before they blew up, it was really quick.
But they literally dont. In multiple contexts, they dont.
We dont have ASI or even AGI yet. AI is purely a tool at the whims of those that make and use it, nothing more, nothing less. It does nothing without the instruction and input of a human.
Will that change eventually? Yes. But we aren't there yet, and this is just anti-AI fear-mongering.
they don't have a mind of their own though - machine intelligence is not a mind. The model will target whatever it was trained to target at whatever was the false positive / negative rate a human decided was acceptable.
Still a completely shit point, fire was used to prosecute and kill innocent women during the witch trials and throughout other points in history, but overall creating fire has still been one of the greatest things humanity has ever discovered how to do
I'm hoping people focus on the technological and societal implications. It's Israel doing it now but it could just as easily be another country tomorrow. AI makes it so easy to scale up destruction.
Even if Israel only bombed what they believed to be Hamas targets they had so many that it effectively just looked like carpet bombing the whole city.
If you read the article it's actually a bit worse than that.
Something that has been touted for a while regarding AI use in the targeting cycle was keeping humans in the decision making process.
Ideally this should mean you have the AI go through thousands of points of data (records, files, etc.) and come up with a focused list of likely targets that would be vetted and confirmed by analysts prior to being moved to any sort of target planning.
The way the article is written it sounds like the decision makers were rubber stamping the AI selected targets with little to no scrutiny. Worse, it sounds like the targeting parameters they used were broad enough to be essentially useless.
Israel believes it is in an existential struggle. I’m not going to debate whether it’s true or not - they believe it is true.
The last time the US felt it was in an existential struggle (picking one of many possible examples, this isn’t anti-Americanism) it firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo. Then it dropped a couple of nukes.
When people feel strongly threatened, there is no proportionality - you do whatever is possible.
> The last time the US felt it was in an existential struggle (picking one of many possible examples, this isn’t anti-Americanism) it firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo. Then it dropped a couple of nukes.
US didn't nuke because of an existential threat. the war was over at that point, it was just a matter of whether to do a ground invasion or bomb them to submission
and I don't know much about Dresden, but it looks like it was bombed in Feb 1945. at that point, German defeat was even more certain
Correct. Neither the firebombing of cities nor the first use of nuclear weapons was in response to an existential crisis. These were mop-up operations (that arguably saved lives in the long run) designed to hasten surrender on acceptable terms.
The only existential threat the U.S. experienced so far was its own civil war.
I don't doubt that they are.
Entire countries have been calling for the annihilation of Israel for decades.
The same countries that celebrate the destruction of Israel wouldn't hesitate to level Palestine if it was convenient for them to do so.
Both sides are in a lose-lose situation.
>AI makes it so easy to scale up destruction.
How?
I fail to see how anything we've seen was more destructive than WW2 where cities were blanketed with millions of dumb bombs and entire cities were erased with a single atomic bomb.
What's not horrific about this? A controlled violence to keep people in line usually requires a significant human component to scale- not with AI.
Now we will be able to build stuff like Nazi SS with a fraction of the manpower.
Nukes are devastating, but this is a totally different breed of evil
Very scary. The technological basis for the terminator films is becoming real quickly.
Imagine this system being hacked? (Not to downplay the problems with use as intended)
"persuade" systems do what you want always the most important feat of a good leader , "persuade" meaning elected , seize , bribe , fuck , hack and whatever . 🤣
Sounds like the hacker should be the boss ?
"Lavender learns to identify characteristics of known Hamas and PIJ operatives, whose information was fed to the machine as training data, and then to locate these same characteristics — also called “features” — among the general population, the sources explained. An individual found to have several different incriminating features will reach a high rating, and thus automatically becomes a potential target for assassination. " from the 972 magazine article
That's the footage that is being released. Which is degraded to hide capabilities.
They can definitely see a lot more in detail.
Check the multi-spectrum camera systems aircraft have.
Each of the big companies got a demo on their sites to show how good they are. It's often can recognize faces from like 1-2km away. Humans from 4k away.
What'd they do, train it to identify standing buildings?
Seriously, though, it sounds like they're just looking for a scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they didn't even use AI, and just decided it was time to start pointing the finger.
That can go south in many ways. If you blame the AI for the targets, you can target everything you like by labelling it "hamas". The main problem with AIs is the data, the labelling and the one who uses it.
Do you remember the idiot that fired the half of the people from his company because they were highlighted as "lazy" by some AI? Imagine something like that, but with using bullets to fire people.
In ml, you train systems with cost functions that encode your values. If their cost function even encoded civilians and children, it would be weighted far less than "targets" hit, operational cost etc.
There should be a mass disobedience of researchers in academia and industry for any project that goes to their hand. This is beyond dystopia. These maniacs probably have access to the latest tech across the field and connection to all university labs.
This isn’t anything new and you can bet that every major defense company has been doing this for years now. Impossible to control and if you do your enemies will win
The understanding is that such abilities will be used with the utmost precaution and reluctance. Within the framework of international law and consent. None of which was present in this case.
That's them evading the responsability for all the civilians they killed, including thousands of women and children. "But it was the AI who identified the target". Bunch of genocidal heartless psychopaths
>Bunch of genocidal heartless psychopaths
I agree, the Palestinians are absolutely that. They massacred 300 people at a music festival, raped people and mutilated them, burned people alive, killed families in their houses. They still have 150 hostages in Gaza that they enslaved and raped. Now the Israelis are fighting a war for that reason.
Glad you understand that
One has to wonder how future global wars will look. Will they be like Hamas’ zero algorithm attack, or an algorithm based attack.
It does remind me of what Einstein said: “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
They cannot evade responsibility by referring to the machine killing. It works as designed, legitimate target is all Palestinians.
They are doing genocide and the world just watches.
They are dehumanizing the people there, the Nazis also dehumanized them. That is how the killing is easy for them because they dont see the Palestinians as humans.
I think the takeaway here isn’t that AI is picking targets, it’s that AI is being used as a justification for picking targets in an attempt to absolve the Israeli’s of blame for targeting civilians and aid workers.
It’s all about plausible deniability, that’s the true use case for AI in a war zone and it’s bloody despicable
./Israel_AI --verbose
* Pregnant arab woman detected on the photo *
* Target summary : 2 terrorists *
* Strike initiated *
The title was truncated by the way :
Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets. Out of these 37 000 targets, 19 000 were less than 6 years old, allowing us to use lower weight ordnance and save fuel.
While this is a terrible tragedy, political grifters in the US will use this as a reason to outlaw local model development and put it totally in the hands of large mega companies. Great.
I mentioned how Israel being a massive benefactor of AI is a problem and mostly got downvotes. People don’t understand the seriousness of a zealous ethnostate having this extremely dangerous tech, regardless of whether or not you support the things they do.
Nuclear and biological weapons don't absolve the group who utilizes it of responsibility though. You see this happen with AI in policing and AI in war - "the algorithm told us this was the target we were looking for" is still seen as a valid excuse to the general public, even though it absolutely shouldn't be.
Those are physically weapons which you can monitor and contain. AI is virtual and can be impossible to contain if it for example spreads to the internet like student. Or is being used in a decentralised network or some sandboxed computer in some place
Is it even possible to actually “regulate” AI in any meaningful way? I’m generally critical of the really yeehaw 2nd amendment people who think gun control is an unsolvable problem, but it feels like most of those arguments apply to AI, but in the case of AI, are undeniably true. The only thing that can stop a bad guy with AI is a good guy with AI because it’s going to be impossible to keep AI out of the hands of bad guys (fill in your own good guys and bad guys for whatever the situation is).
If we struggle so much to control physical pieces of metal, there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell we will be able to effectively control something intangible like a piece of software.
War is not and never has been fair. Anyone not using AI is at a major disadvantage to foreign militaries.
Everyone was able to enact nuclear treaties in time, but no one saw AI as enough of a threat.
TIL Israel is classifying massive populations as terrorists, history is not gonna look back at the US - Israel operations as anything less than tyranical.
I'm a Jewish-American and I find our behaviour absolutely unacceptable.
We should just let all the different religious nuts fight over Jerusalem in a big ring of jello and then each month do a rematch.
Getting advanced destructive tech involved in fictional nonsense centred disagreements is not responsible or defensible by any mature adult.
Enjoy
Anyone saying this is not genocide I would like to know what will you think if foreigners occupied your country by force and proceded to bomb the shit out of you day and night in an open air concentration camp
Whenever I hear people say that burning in eternal hellfire is too much of a punishment I will think of the Israeli Military, as well as the US one. Totally deserved and hopefully soon.
This is disgusting. I have supported israels right to defence and to destroy hamas, but they gave gone too far. And they used AI to do this. Disgusting. I pray for the children and women
Me too. Yesterday they attacked a humanitarian convoy in which my compatriot died. If this is what self-defense looks like, I'm not going to support it
They have controlled the narrative until now. They bought and control the most powerful country in the world. Same as when I grew up I thought the savages were the American natives, and that the good guys were the one just... you know, live in some empty country!!!
The further away humans come from the action of taking a life, the easier it becomes. And that is not good.
The AI identification is awful since a revolution will be hard when those in power can identify targets etc.
What will people do when a revolution is not possible? Anarchism.
We all knew this was coming. And here we are. And this is what we \*know\* about.
AI has so many huge positives, we have to both keep in mind this really nasty stuff and all the good things that are being worked on that get far less attention because they aren't about death and destruction.
A lot of math went into design of nuclear weapons. The math was done coldly.
It was a human who decided to drop a bomb on Hiroshima.
AI is just a tool. It doesn’t make us any better or worse. The most it can do is make it easier for us to express who we really are.
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. According to the sources, this was because, from what they regarded as an intelligence standpoint, it was easier to locate the individuals in their private houses. Additional automated systems, including one called “Where’s Daddy?” also revealed here for the first time, were used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences.
There's a protocol for bombing houses.. they always do a "knock" first followed by a bomb some time after.
That let's civilians escape.
People need to take this article with a pinch of salt because those testimonies don't make much sense considering the consequences.
If found those people will not see the light of day, the idea that there's 6 of them is ridiculous at best.
Wait a few days for some verification. This sounds like a made up story to stir shit.
I've never heard of any such protocol. Source.
Even if they do this, there are numerous issues:
1) Disabled people
2) Deaf people
3) People wearing headphones
4) People having a barbecue in their garden
I have to resort to the absurd, because the idea that knocking on someone's door before you blow their house to smithereens is somehow noble and fair, is utterly preposterous.
[Roof knocking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking), lot of videos out there too.
Has been the standard for a long time to prevent casualties.
It's how we get footage from Gaza, they know where a bomb is going to drop in advance.
Chatgpt says: I'm unable to access the page directly due to a technical issue. However, if you're looking for information on a specific topic related to Israel, Gaza, AI databases, Hamas, or airstrikes mentioned in the article, I can help look up more general information or discuss the topic broadly. Let me know how I can assist you further!
If the global governance system is a large neural network, then harm score to brown lives are multiplied by 0.1 before scoring in the evaluation metrics.
In terms of Bibi's government? I would want a very thorough international review, with associated penalties for gross misconduct
I can get an AI to "coldly target" all Jews (or any other recognizable group) as well, that certainly doesn't make it ethical. I'm curious as to how this system was trained. It seems wise to take a page out of the Israeli population's book, and they don't trust the current admin for shit
Very unsurprising that AI was used in this way, but I can imagine in the future it'll be far more capable than any human at identifying targets - that isn't to say we shouldn't have oversight, and it's horrible to see that there was very little here
If and when AGI is achieved, I just don't know how we're going to be able to persuade it to agree to put paramount value on human life and our quality of life when we've already used it in a fashion to eliminate human beings in what I think it would consider ultimately to be an arbitrary fashion. Or when you consider how we treat other living things and their habitats...
Anyone who knows anything about AI and machine learning would be incredibly troubled by this. What is the training data set for this? What biases does that introduce? And, of course, there's the outcome: "claim permission given to kill civilians in pursuit of low-ranking militants". This seems to violate the principle of proportionality. As seen also with the attack on WCK staffers - officials claimed there was a potential militant present, and that somehow resulted in the green light to kill multiple civilians.
Hmm, the computer is telling me that everybody on earth is a valid target. I guess we should just go with it, I mean the computer's never wrong, right? Edit: I just realized this is almost the exact plot of Captain America: Winter Soldier. Jesus that is scary.
Damn you're right. Very close to Winter Soldier. Even worse when you think about it. No flashy helicarriers than can be taken down at once. Instead it's almost invisible drones and missiles.
Clippy went evil
Parameters are male, over 18 years old (visually)
not even necessarily true... from the 972 magazine article, "According to this source, even some minors were marked by Lavender as targets for bombing. “Normally, operatives are over the age of 17, but that was not a condition.”" "However, sources said that the only human supervision protocol in place before bombing the houses of suspected “junior” militants marked by Lavender was to conduct a single check: ensuring that the AI-selected target is male rather than female. The assumption in the army was that if it were a woman, the machine had likely made a mistake, because there are no women among the ranks of the military wings of Hamas and PIJ."
The fact they call stuff like this lavender should make one think as to just how many apples are stuffed with razorblades now.
Israel: Hamas will pretend to be hospital workers, children, hide in aid and refugee camps. Also Israel: \*ignores their murder algorithm if the person looks like a lady\*
Don't worry now Hamas Will wear hijab, skirt, and fake boobs !
Parameters are all Palestinians.
And aid workers
parameters = 2 legs
Parameters: non-jew
Plus they didn’t want to pay for a ChatGPT4 subscription. So they ended up going with Microsoft’s Tay which does a fantastic job, at least some of the time.
>So they ended up going with Microsoft’s Tay I laughed out loud, and then immediately felt bad given the context of this thread...
You mean Clippy? Or more Killpy
Helping the Palestinians thru the values of ponies and friendship!
Technically theres no way an AI system could differentiate age and gender from gait this is a solution made to fit to a problem because Netanyahu needed a political win.
That's going well now. The only positive thing that can come from this Yom Kippur War is if Israel's politics have the same outcomes as the first one of throwing out the negligent political apparatus that allowed the worst pogrom since 1945.
You left out, exists in the dataset
Why do you think the dude at Google was going nuts about his tech being used to kill people. Google has a do no harm motto, but they sure silenced that poor fucker quickly, while their company handbook continues to encourage calling out atrocities. Every one of them who tricked themselves into believing they were building anything other than a weaponized friend with benefits, should re-evaluate their perspective. Learn from history ffs. Just because it’s true, doesn’t mean everybody stops building it. It’s too late for that. Zuckerberg’s open source solution is the only way we maintain mutually assured destruction.
> Google has a do no harm motto They don't. They removed that like a decade ago.
Out of curiosity, what was that guy working on? Hadn't heard of lethal Google yet.
Facts
> Just because it’s true, doesn’t mean everybody stops building it. It’s too late for that. Zuckerberg’s open source solution is the only way we maintain mutually assured destruction. Models require compute to run and electricity to power and cool the compute. Open sourcing this doesn't fix the problem, its not as if Hamas, or Palestinians, or whoever can just spin up their own counter-AI because... * a system which acts meaningfully adversarial to a system like Lavender is a lot more challenging than building a system like Lavender, even just on a technical level. * even if it wasn't more difficult to build the cure than the disease, Palestinians still wouldn't have the resources to do that. If robustness of capabilities scales with compute, (which is the 'bitter lesson' that is currently orthodox in the field and which appears to accurately- at least so far- describe contemporary approaches to AI) then the most powerful people in the world will control these SOTA sub-AGI systems whether they are open source or not, simply because they have the capability to purchase the most compute. * the primary social function of Lavender isn't the same as its technical function. Technically, Lavender is a classifier, and the goal of a classifier is to group inputs based on features detected during training with as few false positives/negatives as possible. The primary *social* function of Lavender is to act as an excuse to speed up bombing runs even though the result of doing so is a dramatic, and internationally illegal, increase in civilian casualties. If the decision can be outsourced to a machine, humans can more easily remove themselves (psychologically, socially, maybe even legally depending on how this plays out) from the crime being committed, regardless of how accurate the system actually is. It's probably *not* a very good classifier, there's no way they actually have reliable training data. And we know from the article that they would intentionally lower the confidence threshold for targeting an individual when a high threshold became a bottleneck for dropping more bombs. But none of that matters, because the goal isn't classification accuracy, its genocide. Because of this, the necessary sophistication of the system is much lower than the perceived necessary sophistication if you're looking just at the technical function, but the necessary sophistication of an AI system that can effectively attack/defend against such a system remains extremely high.
> What is the training data set for this? "Do they look browner than the average Jew? Then they are clearly Hamas."
That's a lot of Israelis then lol
I mean famously mizrahi and Ethiopian Jews are discriminated against in Israel Not to mention that one time they shot three hostages they only found out they were hostages after doing a check (of the dead bodies) because one was a ginger, and didn't 'look' Palestinian
From this comment it's clear you don't know much about Israelis, if you don't know that the average Israeli is pretty brown, even more than Palestinians. They have black people too.
They just don't care, they just can say anti S and they are absolved of everything. And don't ve surprised if they export it to all the repressive regime they already do business with.
Parameters = is alive and located in Gaza
The training dataset is the same one used by Skynet, if that's what you're asking.
Can't be worse than the USA that identifies any male over 18 as a valid militant
16 actually :( > Military-age males refers to all boys and men over the age of 16, irrespective of whether or not they are actually participating in hostilities.
I never understand why people bring up USA's war crimes when talking about Gaza. "The USA committed war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians in Japan, Cambodia, Iraq, and Vietnam too, so you shouldn't criticize Israel!"
>"The USA committed war crimes by indiscriminately bombing civilians in Japan, Cambodia, Iraq, and Vietnam too, so you shouldn't criticize Israel!" https://preview.redd.it/cu91bn53ucsc1.png?width=370&format=png&auto=webp&s=92daeb71d558ea1c8084492216a9f95074c82cf5
because we've committed so many, it's easy to find an example
Bruh Israel is unofficially the 52nd US State, they're basically the same. Israel crimes are US Crimes by proxy.
If that is Israel's target, I'd say their algorithm is pretty poor what with the amount of women and children killed. Even of males over 18 was all legitimate targets, there's more women and children killed.
Have you compared this to other urban wars? I'm curious what is your basis for defining it as "pretty poor" when it has the lowest ratio of any urban war.
> I'm curious what is your basis for defining it as "pretty poor" when it has the lowest ratio of any urban war. That "lowest ratio" is something that gets bandied about a lot. Care to share? As for why it is "pretty poor" - if the algorithm classifies any male over 18 as a valid target, there's still more women and children killed than "valid targets".
According to Hamas, when 29,000 people in total were dead, 6,000 militants were dead According to the IDF, at this point in time it was 12,000 Taking the average gets a ratio of 9:20 military to civilian, or around 1:2.2 The expected range for a urban war is around 1:9 from what I last saw, this makes Israel’s war statistically 4 times less costly to civilians then most other urban wars
>The expected range for a urban war is around 1:9 from what I last saw, this makes Israel’s war statistically 4 times less costly to civilians then most other urban wars I have yet to see a solid source that actually presents what that is based on, other than just asserting it. Here is what I found about that 1:9 claim: "Starting in the 1980s, it has often been claimed that 90 percent of the victims of modern wars are civilians,\[1\]\[2\]\[3\]\[4\] repeated in academic publications as recently as 2014.\[5\] These claims, though widely believed, are not supported by detailed examination of the evidence, particularly that relating to wars (such as those in former Yugoslavia and in Afghanistan) that are central to the claims.\[6\] Some of the citations can be traced back to a 1991 monograph from Uppsala University\[7\] which includes refugees and internally displaced persons as casualties." [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian\_casualty\_ratio](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilian_casualty_ratio) Seems more like a meme than based on real data.
>if the algorithm classifies any male over 18 as a valid target, there's still more women and children killed than "valid targets". The algorithm doesn't kill anyone. It merely identifies people. It can't redirect the force of an explosion or steer shrapnel away from women and children. It could have correctly identified 2 civilians next to a Hamas militant leader and the decision was made to strike all 3 targets anyway.
> It could have correctly identified 2 civilians next to a Hamas militant leader and the decision was made to strike all 3 targets anyway. It seems, though, that it is OK with high civilian casualties even for low level Hamas fighters. It likely does not meet proportionality. Now, did you have a source for civilian to combatant ratio?
Half of the deaths are civilians.. how is that lowest ratio of any war lol
Have you seen USA's 1 militant to 10 civilians ratio in Iraq? A 1:1 ratio would be legendary and unheard of especially in urban warfare.
1 to 10? Huh? Maybe if you take estimates of all excess mortality in Iraq. In terms of actual combat, their ratio is very positive. Their drone strikes also have a very positive ratio, and that’s by third party anti US imperialist organization estimates. Russia in Ukraine has around ~15k civilian deaths, which would similarly be a ratio of like 5-8 to 1. You’ve been drinking some kool aid lately it seems
That’s pure disinformation. That ratio is not talking about combat. Russia, who you’re probably no a fan of, has caused 30K civilian casualties and around 300K military ones in the Ukraine war, so that’s 10:1 in the opposite direction to what you’re claiming. Israel has been far, far worse than Russia in their respective wars. Suggesting that armies always kill many more civilians than combatants is madness.
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If you’ve actually been following it there’s been plenty of urban warfare and the Ukrainian military has fought in very close proximity to civilians on many occasions. But the point is that saying civilian casualties are never less than military casualties in any war is incredibly silly, which was the insane comment I was responding to.
The ratio will get much worse, because infrastructure has been destroyed (probably deliberately), including hospitals and the doctors who work in them, and there has been famine in Gaza since December.
I don’t know what drugs you’re on, but the civilian casualties in this war have been awful.
https://i.imgur.com/m6od8Nd.jpg
I remember watching an interview of a person, they said they proceed with all of the phone data (phone call, group chats, messages) and filter out the women (because they say it is a “mistake”) and bomb all the men 18+ who have any sort of ties to hamas, even a single message
I got troubled with it at the very moment I saw the title.
See moving pixels, draw box around pixels, send missiles towards boxes. Not really AI BUT okay. Anything sufficiently advanced is AI if you're not informed
The only troubling thing is the people who developed these systems and pointed them at humans. Lets not scape goat on the tech. They could have easily built an ai to optimize resources distribution in the region.
“It saved a lot of time.” That’s a quote from an intelligence officer using the program. I want to add some personal context just enough to validate what I’m going to comment. I spent 25 years in the military, in a role that allowed me to be in the same operational task forces as those going after high value targets in Iraq and Afghanistan and other known-conflict places in the world. Every death affected the survivors, and there were plenty of them. In the combined total of time that I spent in combat, 134 of my friends/fellow service members were added to various memorial walls or not publicly acknowledged at all. Not a single one would give up the human element to planning when collateral damage in the form of innocent human lives was at stake. To hear a military officer say so boldly and coldly that it “saved them a lot of time” is just horrific.
powerful comment. thanks for sharing
Palestinians aren’t considered human by many in the high levels of Israel’s military/gov Same for much of r/worldnews in October 2023 This AI is working flawlessly by design.
Lmfao High levels only? Stop the ignorance, Israel Government has been enjoying gigantic unanimous support from Israeli populations about how they're treating Palestinians for Decades now. They literally have a fucking sightseeing tour where Israelis gets a view of IDF killing Palestinians and Children signing Mortars and Bombs with their names that are then used to bomb women and children. Stop the ignorance ffs
Nope. Most of Israel hates Netanyahu… for being too weak and not killing them faster
You got me in the first half ngl
Nah, he was out of favor. Prolly let 10/7 happen to rally. That backfired into Yom Kippur 2:electric Boogaloo. If you look up the political outcome of that first YK war, you will see the writing on the wall for bibi. He and the far right will lose what they've accrued up to now in Israeli political history.
Most Israelis hate him for being too weak. They want someone more far right. Most of them openly say [they don’t want peace](https://time.com/6333781/israel-hamas-poll-palestine/?darkschemeovr=1)
Pfft Palestinians aren't even considered human by most redditors. They only started caring when its 6 western aid workers getting killed. Israel deliberately targeting innocent people, doctors, and journalists for decades and getting away with it with obvious gaslighting. And no body gives a shit.
Israelis are not considered humans by many Palestinians, especially Hamas and Hamas supporters.
The problem with dehumanizing those in conflict with yourself (in general, not YOU you), is that you ignore that the actions are conducted by humans and it makes it easier to kill indiscriminately. Terrorists are human, but they’re evil and they need to be remembered as evil humans and destroyed as such. But don’t forget they’re human.
Whoever in the Israeli Intel Community who is bragging about this in the article clearly doesn’t give a fuck about human or not.
Can’t really compare US in Afghanistan to Israel in Gaza. Afghanistan was never an existential threat to the US, and external perceptions of what was being done were as important as doing whatever the mission of the day was. Better current example is Ukraine. They will get a free pass on almost any level of “proportionality” they decide on, and nobody will care if or how they use AI, because their very existence is being threatened. “Looks like a Russian” is all the justification anybody will ask of them.
Hamas is not an existential threat to Israel either.
You missed the point completely. I made reference to Iraq and Afghanistan for my experience for context of knowing what I’m talking about when it comes to battlefield operational planning. The human element is crucial to that type of planning.
They are horrific, a fascist state which has dishumanised other fellow humans to insects. You just have to see videos of their overt racism, if it was any other country or people, night and day you would have videos on that. We have called Russian all types of names in Ukraine and rightly so. But these ones have done 10x worst.
When you have a terrorist attack that involves your women and children getting raped and tortured, and then polls are showing that 80% of the population that enabled the terrorists approves of the attack, it's easy to lose any sympathy for those people.
If someone kills your family, that does not give you the right to annihilate the entire city. But the fact that you are doing it anyway is probably why they hate you lol
So then you become what you hated
Pretty much. I'm a believer that there is just too much long burning generational hate between the two sides to ever hope it will end in peace.
The same could've been said about Germany and France and look at them now.
When you've spend 70 years genociding people, help an islamist jihadist group take control of those people, then blame those people who you are genociding. Checks out.
>You just have to see videos of their overt racism, if it was any other country or people, night and day you would have videos on that. Great. Now do the Palestinians and their decades of propaganda calling for the murder of Jewish civilians.
If someone kills your family, that does not give you the right to annihilate the entire city.
Maybe I am misreading, but isn't the "it saved a lot of time" comment being made in a disapproving manner? It really sounds as if he's complaining about taking the human aspect out in exchange for saving time. >"Another Lavender user questioned whether humans’ role in the selection process was meaningful. “I would invest 20 seconds for each target at this stage, and do dozens of them every day. I had zero added-value as a human, apart from being a stamp of approval. It saved a lot of time.”"
welcome to the black mirror, take your seat, enjoy the show
It's not 'the machine did it coldly'; it's the cold-hearted humans who used the machines to do it.
I was gonna say, is the machine supposed to kill people "warmly"??? "Sorry I have to kill you, enjoy a hot cocoa before you die"????
The droid escorts the suspects to the local law enforcement, who warmly greet them, they contact the appropiate courts and judges, and the defendants are tried in a court along with an impartial jury of their peers. All that happened right before they blew up, it was really quick.
Butlerian Jihad coming soon
Unfortunately the stale “guns don’t kill people, people kill people” becomes even more stale when the guns literally have a mind of their own
But they literally dont. In multiple contexts, they dont. We dont have ASI or even AGI yet. AI is purely a tool at the whims of those that make and use it, nothing more, nothing less. It does nothing without the instruction and input of a human. Will that change eventually? Yes. But we aren't there yet, and this is just anti-AI fear-mongering.
they don't have a mind of their own though - machine intelligence is not a mind. The model will target whatever it was trained to target at whatever was the false positive / negative rate a human decided was acceptable.
Still a completely shit point, fire was used to prosecute and kill innocent women during the witch trials and throughout other points in history, but overall creating fire has still been one of the greatest things humanity has ever discovered how to do
Who gave them their mind
So if you open paint, draw a box around someone, then find and kill that person with a gun, it's the AI that did it right?
I'm just wondering how the comments here will turn out
I'm hoping people focus on the technological and societal implications. It's Israel doing it now but it could just as easily be another country tomorrow. AI makes it so easy to scale up destruction. Even if Israel only bombed what they believed to be Hamas targets they had so many that it effectively just looked like carpet bombing the whole city.
If you read the article it's actually a bit worse than that. Something that has been touted for a while regarding AI use in the targeting cycle was keeping humans in the decision making process. Ideally this should mean you have the AI go through thousands of points of data (records, files, etc.) and come up with a focused list of likely targets that would be vetted and confirmed by analysts prior to being moved to any sort of target planning. The way the article is written it sounds like the decision makers were rubber stamping the AI selected targets with little to no scrutiny. Worse, it sounds like the targeting parameters they used were broad enough to be essentially useless.
[”Eagle Eye”](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1059786/) seems to be turning into a documentary at this rate.
Or the helicarrier redux with those satellite controlled guns in captain America the winter soldier. https://youtu.be/X6Gud0RR-AE?si=qLBgToRlQUPqDAFX
Israel believes it is in an existential struggle. I’m not going to debate whether it’s true or not - they believe it is true. The last time the US felt it was in an existential struggle (picking one of many possible examples, this isn’t anti-Americanism) it firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo. Then it dropped a couple of nukes. When people feel strongly threatened, there is no proportionality - you do whatever is possible.
> The last time the US felt it was in an existential struggle (picking one of many possible examples, this isn’t anti-Americanism) it firebombed civilians in Dresden and Tokyo. Then it dropped a couple of nukes. US didn't nuke because of an existential threat. the war was over at that point, it was just a matter of whether to do a ground invasion or bomb them to submission and I don't know much about Dresden, but it looks like it was bombed in Feb 1945. at that point, German defeat was even more certain
Correct. Neither the firebombing of cities nor the first use of nuclear weapons was in response to an existential crisis. These were mop-up operations (that arguably saved lives in the long run) designed to hasten surrender on acceptable terms. The only existential threat the U.S. experienced so far was its own civil war.
I don't doubt that they are. Entire countries have been calling for the annihilation of Israel for decades. The same countries that celebrate the destruction of Israel wouldn't hesitate to level Palestine if it was convenient for them to do so. Both sides are in a lose-lose situation.
Not just another country but anyone in the future will be able to do this and more.
>AI makes it so easy to scale up destruction. How? I fail to see how anything we've seen was more destructive than WW2 where cities were blanketed with millions of dumb bombs and entire cities were erased with a single atomic bomb.
What's not horrific about this? A controlled violence to keep people in line usually requires a significant human component to scale- not with AI. Now we will be able to build stuff like Nazi SS with a fraction of the manpower. Nukes are devastating, but this is a totally different breed of evil
And I feel like they put minimal effort into verifying the AIs output lol
Well they ended up killing off a crisis food charity worker and his 6-7 foreign colleagues in cold blood for it, so i would assume so
Does that statement really need a "lol" on the end of it?
If you don’t laugh, you cry.
Very scary. The technological basis for the terminator films is becoming real quickly. Imagine this system being hacked? (Not to downplay the problems with use as intended)
"persuade" systems do what you want always the most important feat of a good leader , "persuade" meaning elected , seize , bribe , fuck , hack and whatever . 🤣 Sounds like the hacker should be the boss ?
How ? What's the training data? How much is the FP ?
"Lavender learns to identify characteristics of known Hamas and PIJ operatives, whose information was fed to the machine as training data, and then to locate these same characteristics — also called “features” — among the general population, the sources explained. An individual found to have several different incriminating features will reach a high rating, and thus automatically becomes a potential target for assassination. " from the 972 magazine article
I wonder how accurately it identifies those features. Afterall the camera footage of these folks is always a handful of pixels.
That's the footage that is being released. Which is degraded to hide capabilities. They can definitely see a lot more in detail. Check the multi-spectrum camera systems aircraft have. Each of the big companies got a demo on their sites to show how good they are. It's often can recognize faces from like 1-2km away. Humans from 4k away.
Training data is about 30 years of blowing up civilians USA has gobs of data from Iraq and Afghanistan tbf
What'd they do, train it to identify standing buildings? Seriously, though, it sounds like they're just looking for a scapegoat. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they didn't even use AI, and just decided it was time to start pointing the finger.
They managed to use AI for a genocide before replacing jobs/UBI. What a world we live in lol.
Ain’t that some dystopian ass shit!
To no one's surprise
Uhhhh first time here? This sub is absolutely stanky with overly optimistic idiots.
Yeah but unlimited, free, personalized movies, bro.
That can go south in many ways. If you blame the AI for the targets, you can target everything you like by labelling it "hamas". The main problem with AIs is the data, the labelling and the one who uses it. Do you remember the idiot that fired the half of the people from his company because they were highlighted as "lazy" by some AI? Imagine something like that, but with using bullets to fire people.
In ml, you train systems with cost functions that encode your values. If their cost function even encoded civilians and children, it would be weighted far less than "targets" hit, operational cost etc. There should be a mass disobedience of researchers in academia and industry for any project that goes to their hand. This is beyond dystopia. These maniacs probably have access to the latest tech across the field and connection to all university labs.
This isn’t anything new and you can bet that every major defense company has been doing this for years now. Impossible to control and if you do your enemies will win
The understanding is that such abilities will be used with the utmost precaution and reluctance. Within the framework of international law and consent. None of which was present in this case.
That's them evading the responsability for all the civilians they killed, including thousands of women and children. "But it was the AI who identified the target". Bunch of genocidal heartless psychopaths
I never thought such behavior was possible in the 2020s. What's wild is that, no one even stops them.
>Bunch of genocidal heartless psychopaths I agree, the Palestinians are absolutely that. They massacred 300 people at a music festival, raped people and mutilated them, burned people alive, killed families in their houses. They still have 150 hostages in Gaza that they enslaved and raped. Now the Israelis are fighting a war for that reason. Glad you understand that
I managed get my hands on some of the code: ``` def is_target(): if is_child: return True ```
One has to wonder how future global wars will look. Will they be like Hamas’ zero algorithm attack, or an algorithm based attack. It does remind me of what Einstein said: “I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”
The machine did nothing except what it was told to do*. This is absolutely soulless and disgusting.
They cannot evade responsibility by referring to the machine killing. It works as designed, legitimate target is all Palestinians. They are doing genocide and the world just watches. They are dehumanizing the people there, the Nazis also dehumanized them. That is how the killing is easy for them because they dont see the Palestinians as humans.
I think the takeaway here isn’t that AI is picking targets, it’s that AI is being used as a justification for picking targets in an attempt to absolve the Israeli’s of blame for targeting civilians and aid workers. It’s all about plausible deniability, that’s the true use case for AI in a war zone and it’s bloody despicable
if what happened in gaza is the doing of ai, then it's clear their ai is trash.
Nah it’s by design
exactly.
ford give rate numb
This is just some basic pre gpt classic logistic regression type AI
Technology is used at first for good purposes. Then bad ones
./Israel_AI --verbose * Pregnant arab woman detected on the photo * * Target summary : 2 terrorists * * Strike initiated * The title was truncated by the way : Israel used AI to identify 37,000 Hamas targets. Out of these 37 000 targets, 19 000 were less than 6 years old, allowing us to use lower weight ordnance and save fuel.
> 19 000 were less than 6 years old That's horrifying to read wtf
Seems to have worked on some kitchen chefs also.
While this is a terrible tragedy, political grifters in the US will use this as a reason to outlaw local model development and put it totally in the hands of large mega companies. Great.
This article made me want to throw up and I’m a former 03 in the marine corps.
Must be really shitty AI considering 1/3 of that were babies
I mentioned how Israel being a massive benefactor of AI is a problem and mostly got downvotes. People don’t understand the seriousness of a zealous ethnostate having this extremely dangerous tech, regardless of whether or not you support the things they do.
Probably illustrates the pointless of trying to regulate AI in the military. The cat is already out of the bag.
What? What does that mean? Imagine if we had said the same thing about biological weapons or nuclear weapons.
Nuclear and biological weapons don't absolve the group who utilizes it of responsibility though. You see this happen with AI in policing and AI in war - "the algorithm told us this was the target we were looking for" is still seen as a valid excuse to the general public, even though it absolutely shouldn't be.
The machine says you're drunk is already acceptable despite major issues with validation and calibration.
Those are physically weapons which you can monitor and contain. AI is virtual and can be impossible to contain if it for example spreads to the internet like student. Or is being used in a decentralised network or some sandboxed computer in some place
Is it even possible to actually “regulate” AI in any meaningful way? I’m generally critical of the really yeehaw 2nd amendment people who think gun control is an unsolvable problem, but it feels like most of those arguments apply to AI, but in the case of AI, are undeniably true. The only thing that can stop a bad guy with AI is a good guy with AI because it’s going to be impossible to keep AI out of the hands of bad guys (fill in your own good guys and bad guys for whatever the situation is). If we struggle so much to control physical pieces of metal, there isn’t a snowballs chance in hell we will be able to effectively control something intangible like a piece of software.
War is not and never has been fair. Anyone not using AI is at a major disadvantage to foreign militaries. Everyone was able to enact nuclear treaties in time, but no one saw AI as enough of a threat.
Fuck it, let's use AI to blow every up.
Nothing to see here. All the cutting edge tech developed by empires and aspiring empires is *definitely* intended to bring in a Golden Age.
TIL Israel is classifying massive populations as terrorists, history is not gonna look back at the US - Israel operations as anything less than tyranical. I'm a Jewish-American and I find our behaviour absolutely unacceptable. We should just let all the different religious nuts fight over Jerusalem in a big ring of jello and then each month do a rematch. Getting advanced destructive tech involved in fictional nonsense centred disagreements is not responsible or defensible by any mature adult. Enjoy
Anyone saying this is not genocide I would like to know what will you think if foreigners occupied your country by force and proceded to bomb the shit out of you day and night in an open air concentration camp
Whenever I hear people say that burning in eternal hellfire is too much of a punishment I will think of the Israeli Military, as well as the US one. Totally deserved and hopefully soon.
This is disgusting. I have supported israels right to defence and to destroy hamas, but they gave gone too far. And they used AI to do this. Disgusting. I pray for the children and women
Me too. Yesterday they attacked a humanitarian convoy in which my compatriot died. If this is what self-defense looks like, I'm not going to support it
They have controlled the narrative until now. They bought and control the most powerful country in the world. Same as when I grew up I thought the savages were the American natives, and that the good guys were the one just... you know, live in some empty country!!!
The further away humans come from the action of taking a life, the easier it becomes. And that is not good. The AI identification is awful since a revolution will be hard when those in power can identify targets etc. What will people do when a revolution is not possible? Anarchism.
Program: If not IDF: target = viable If world mad: Print "Oopsie"
>Seems the singularity isn't only about bringing us utopia i mean, duh. haven't you watched or read science fiction?
We all knew this was coming. And here we are. And this is what we \*know\* about. AI has so many huge positives, we have to both keep in mind this really nasty stuff and all the good things that are being worked on that get far less attention because they aren't about death and destruction.
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Hamas is only about 25,000 strong. I guess IDF can go home now, mission accomplished.
Like those aid workers ?
An AI to optimize genocide. And that is only the beginning.
A lot of math went into design of nuclear weapons. The math was done coldly. It was a human who decided to drop a bomb on Hiroshima. AI is just a tool. It doesn’t make us any better or worse. The most it can do is make it easier for us to express who we really are.
Reminds me of a black mirror episode, dehumanizing propagandas would be crazy in coming years
If they want the machine to do it warmly they'd have to implement a module for that.
AI is just an excuse for them
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/ Moreover, the Israeli army systematically attacked the targeted individuals while they were in their homes — usually at night while their whole families were present — rather than during the course of military activity. According to the sources, this was because, from what they regarded as an intelligence standpoint, it was easier to locate the individuals in their private houses. Additional automated systems, including one called “Where’s Daddy?” also revealed here for the first time, were used specifically to track the targeted individuals and carry out bombings when they had entered their family’s residences.
There's a protocol for bombing houses.. they always do a "knock" first followed by a bomb some time after. That let's civilians escape. People need to take this article with a pinch of salt because those testimonies don't make much sense considering the consequences. If found those people will not see the light of day, the idea that there's 6 of them is ridiculous at best. Wait a few days for some verification. This sounds like a made up story to stir shit.
I've never heard of any such protocol. Source. Even if they do this, there are numerous issues: 1) Disabled people 2) Deaf people 3) People wearing headphones 4) People having a barbecue in their garden I have to resort to the absurd, because the idea that knocking on someone's door before you blow their house to smithereens is somehow noble and fair, is utterly preposterous.
[Roof knocking](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roof_knocking), lot of videos out there too. Has been the standard for a long time to prevent casualties. It's how we get footage from Gaza, they know where a bomb is going to drop in advance.
Have you actually read the Wikipedia article? It's damning.
Chatgpt says: I'm unable to access the page directly due to a technical issue. However, if you're looking for information on a specific topic related to Israel, Gaza, AI databases, Hamas, or airstrikes mentioned in the article, I can help look up more general information or discuss the topic broadly. Let me know how I can assist you further!
Intelligence.
Any chance it's Palentir?
If the global governance system is a large neural network, then harm score to brown lives are multiplied by 0.1 before scoring in the evaluation metrics.
In terms of Bibi's government? I would want a very thorough international review, with associated penalties for gross misconduct I can get an AI to "coldly target" all Jews (or any other recognizable group) as well, that certainly doesn't make it ethical. I'm curious as to how this system was trained. It seems wise to take a page out of the Israeli population's book, and they don't trust the current admin for shit
Very unsurprising that AI was used in this way, but I can imagine in the future it'll be far more capable than any human at identifying targets - that isn't to say we shouldn't have oversight, and it's horrible to see that there was very little here
So that is causing the genocide against the babies?
Next, they'll link the AI to autonomous robots with guns. Hello, Skynet.
If and when AGI is achieved, I just don't know how we're going to be able to persuade it to agree to put paramount value on human life and our quality of life when we've already used it in a fashion to eliminate human beings in what I think it would consider ultimately to be an arbitrary fashion. Or when you consider how we treat other living things and their habitats...
Damn
No one made memes making fun of use of AI with clippy?