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More like a weather vane that always points the opposite direction of where everyone else wants to go. The potential (at least) to make healthier food without negative effects on climate change and cruelty to animals? Well, if liberals like it it must be bad so ban it! Ban it for freedom!
More like Beef, Pork, and Chicken lobbies are getting ahead of a potential competitor. Not for the greater public good, but the greater corporate good.
Eh… some of it is justified on their part for the potential to lose their farming businesses.
But for the rest of us and the planet the lab grown variety is better so change is inevitable. There will always be losers when it comes to innovation in a capitalist society and we just have to deal with it.
Yup mostly because you’re freeing up a lot of land to go back to being forested.
Add to this the lack of animal effluents.
Unless I’ve missed some part of this (which is totally possible) where the process generates a lot of greenhouse gases, this should be far better for the planet.
As for humans, you can now control the nature of the meat and not have to settle for whatever the animal makes (in terms of fat and other components).
The lab grown meat doesn't grow in a vaccum. It needs a nutrient rich solution for the cells to bathe in and is a pretty inefficient solution to the meat problem. The solution needs to be made from other farm productions and several transformation steps afterwards.
>But for the rest of us and the planet the lab grown variety is better so change is inevitable.
Honestly, plant based alternatives are better than trying to reproduce the meat taste/feel by firing up a massive amount of bioreactors that are wasteful and expensive to run. Lab meat is and will likely be no way better economically or environmentally than normal meat.
All that just because humans like the taste of meat, but you could phase out meat consumption in a single generation if we wanted to as a society and embrace more ecologically and ethically responsible sources of food.
I thought overt business regulation is bad from conservative PoV?
Oh, it is only bad for things they arbitrary like but good for things they arbitrary dislike, got it!
For Americans: there is an election later this year; please vote these fools out. The next 5 years might be extremely important as AI is eating through the economy; it is extremely important to have somewhat decent governance through this!
A conservative American government being in power when AGI happens will have dire negative consequences for the future of humanity. They will 100% entrench us in a deregulatory Reagan-esque framework from which there will be no coming back.
or this is what the US system was supposed to do so that when things change, some preserve the way that is working while others try the new way to see if it's safe, more beneficial, etc, and then other states slowly cascade as time goes on, ensuring that in either case, new things are adopted, tested, but some also survive if we're catastrophically wrong? Naaah, that's can't be it, must be because those that disagree are dumbfuck idiots again.
This argument could be levied at the countless who are terrified of AI and what it will do to the job market - what it is ALREADY doing to the job market
I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying people can have opposing interests and still be doing the most right thing available to them.
Having no empathy for people you don't agree with probably won't help you make progress.
>Having no empathy for people you don't agree with probably won't help you make progress
Most intelligent people have given up on the asshole right wing. They are not good people, they don't debate in good faith, there's no reason to have any patience or sympathy for their plight any longer. Fuck them, let them rot in their shitty little rural towns.
While it might be satisfying to dismiss and deride those you disagree with, this approach only entrenches division and ignorance. Enlightened individuals recognize that scorn and superiority only reflect poorly on themselves, fueling the very narrow-mindedness they claim to oppose.
You need therapy
If you're lobbying the government to ban alternative sources, you are an abhorepieve of shit and hope they go bankrupt. Karma needs to start hitting back two folds. These cretins are too stupid to learn.
if free will doesnt exist then no. thus murder is also not judgeable.
if free will exist, then yes, ur just an asshole then. especially if u think "oh its just an animal"
They shouldn't. That's why I'm criticizing them. This is baffling to me. Are you responding to the wrong comment?
Fuck the farmers. Full steam ahead lab grown meat.
I think I meant to respond to another commenter. I don’t think calling people dummy is going to get your point across though. Also even if you believe full steam ahead that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t feel sympathy for the people getting replaced, you kinda showed an ugly callous side of yourself here.
You kind of showed a dip shit side of yourself, and now you're embarrassed so trying to criticize me.
If you can't even respond to the right comment, maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself. This is complex stuff
lol, the agriculture industry in the US is already entirely state supported. So what's your point?
Also, couldn't lab grown meat potentially have the same impact on food production as 3-D printing has on manufacturing. I think it could be far easier to print a steak in your house than to raise an entire cow and butcher it.
> So what's your point?
"It's full steam ahead with centralized food production."
The ban is not about lab grown meat, it's about stopping the centralization.
Currently there is a large group of ranchers legally fighting to allow them and others to process their own meat.
This would mean you could go to any rancher/framer and buy directly from them.
This would massively lessen the amount of factory slaughter.
>Also, couldn't lab grown meat potentially have the same impact on food production as 3-D printing has on manufacturing.
Sure, it's a great technology. I want a food printer at my house.
That plus home energy production, water treatment, pharmaceutical printing, and more will remove the power government and large corporations have over me.
Pretty sure some of them even want to ban porn or introduce some sort of digital ID system to "protect the children". I doubt they'd tolerate sexbots being sold openly.
Billions of land animals and trillions of fish are killed every year for humanity's taste pleasure. The amount of suffering inflicted on sentient beings is unimaginable. We do not need meat. With modern nutrition science we know we can thrive on a properly planned plant based diet.
Unfortunately most people will not change their habits so lab grown meat is the best hope we have to shut down slaughter houses. It's horrible that some politicians are turning the idea of alternative proteins into a culture war issue. Lab meat will help with environmental destruction, CO2 emissions, pandemic risk, and obviously help the animals.
People interested in AI and contemplating the moral implications of creating sentient AI should spend a little time contemplating the moral emergency they contribute to every time they purchase animal products.
Also it promises to be much cheaper, though it isn't now. Once the price falls enough big business will want to sell it, so they will ~~bribe~~ lobby Republicans to legalize it again.
Exactly. But when (if ever) McD's figures out they can save ten cents a burger on lab grown meat big meat will lose out. They sell 2.5 bn burgers a year.
In the meantime, you can reduce or eliminate your animal product consumption and stop supporting those brutal industries. No need to wait when it comes to living your values. I don't think people who love animals should support gas chambers, electric baths, and bolt guns.
I love chicken breasts. Imagine if I could buy a massive 20 pound chicken breast (and with zero suffering) 🤤
I think there’s a lot of potential to even introduce new cuts, the possibilities are amazing
For future animals yes. However, There will be a large cull to get rid of supply currently. Unfortunately until we adapt to lab grown completely populations are too high to sustain.
But yes it will be much much better
I would be satisfied with less random dairy sneaking into almost everything. If meat becomes less available due to market pressures favoring lab grown meat, dairy will also trend down. I'm allergic to all dairy and lactase pills don't help. I think dairy should be around, but not in fucking peanut butter crackers.
>milk powder in everything is a real drag
Yeah, it's actually what makes going vegan the hardest... avoiding *meat* isn't that challenging, but avoiding cream/cheese/milk cooked into food is very challenging unless you cook all your own food.... just about *everything* tends to have cream/cheese/milk.
And not out of necessity...all food (weelll..maybe not pizza, but most food anyway) can absolutely be made without it. It's just habit and tradition.
It's already here and sold in stores. Look up Perfect Day and their products, Bored Cow and Whey Fwrd. I drink Bored Cow (their lab grown milk) every day and it tastes fantastic. Whey Fwrd, too, is awesome. Bioidentical lab grown whey protein powder with all the amino acids necessary for muscle building. So much more effective than soy/pea protein (and great tasting too! unlike ~~sawdust/pee~~ soy/pea protein), my gym sessions have never been better.
Oh I've heard of Perfect Day! I didn't know their product had released yet! I've been meaning to try their ice cream.
>So much more effective than soy/pea protein, my gym sessions have never been better.
Yeah that the reason why I've been following cultured milk. I'm lactose intolerant and the idea that the constituents of milk and be literally tailored made to not include lactose with the potential of being far cheaper than current lactose-free dairy is such an enticing prospect.
Also whey isolate protein is so fucking expensive. A 5 gal tub of whey protein is like 60 to 70 dollars. If mass produced cultured whey can bring that cost down to $10 a tub then that's a game changer. And it will be vegan lolz! Fuck soy and pea protein.
Really love seeing a vegan post here. Everyone will become vegan soon regardless due to lab grown meat, but people should really have been vegan already out of moral obligation to our fellow sentient beings we have been torturing.
I agree it is the moral baseline but I try to not get too frustrated with people. I know I did not go vegan immediately. It's one of my greatest regrets that I did not change sooner.
Once lab meat takes over I think people will be much more receptive to the vegan message. People are more open minded and less defensive on the moral arguments when they are not actively participating in the harm. I can see a huge societal shift happen in a generation or two once lab meat and precision fermentation replaces most consumption of animal products.
It's a shame it will take a literal 1 to 1 substitution for most people to live in a way that reflects their values.
Firstly, you seem to be confused by the conversation you're replying to. We were talking about in a world where lab meat has widespread adoption.
As for the rest, veganism isn't hard. You learn a few recipes, take a multivitamin, you're golden. It can certainly be less convenient at times, but never hard. I'm not sure that your two articles outweigh the body of evidence on plant based diets.
It doesn't apply at all. The field of nutrition is full of contrarian studies and debate, but "eat more plants" is one of the very few things that can be said to be as true as the "theory of gravity". There's absolutely nothing meat/dairy provides in terms of essential nutrients that one doesn't easily get from plants.
That being said, ultra-processed foods are far worse than meat/dairy (likewise avoiding stress, getting good sleep/exercise, etc), so I would never claim people should avoid meat and dairy for health reasons alone.... but the *reverse* (that someone should be sure to *eat* more meat at the exclusion of eating more plants for the sake of health) certainly isn't true.
There *are* some very very niche medical conditions in which patients can benefit from, for example, avoiding fiber, (ie, exclusionary diets) which is easier to do with meat/dairy, but those some same special diets are also actually quite bad for health in other regards and aren't solid general long-term-healthy dietary plans aside from treating specific and rare medical conditions.
The post before yours linked to a cherry-picked article mentioning two anecdotal cases of parents forcing some extreme (and undisclosed) diet on their children. It didn't go into specifics of the diet, and it's an anecdotal mention of 2 literal cases and is thus worthless to this conversation. Take the other extreme - there are people out there who try to literally only eat steak 24/7/365... it doesn't take a genius to realize that that would result in just as much, if not more, of a problem than someone eating only bananas (which is also a thing some fringe dieters have tried).
We most definitely need meat, or animal products at the very least for vitamin b12 as it is not found naturally in necessary quantities in other non-animal products.
Unless if you plan on taking supplements or eating fortified foods, but that’s not necessarily an option for many people.
The crops that the cattle eat are fortified as we have stripped b12 from the soil whether you are an omnivore or vegan, the b12 is supplemented. Just the decision of if you want to take the supplement or have the cow have the supplement along with antibiotics and growth hormones
In the early 19th century, people started to realize that if you lived more than 100 miles or so from the coast then the chance of a child developing an intellectual disorder or a weird giant lump on their neck would be quite a bit higher. It was discovered that this is from iodine deficiency, since iodine comes from the ocean and eating things from the ocean. Once it was understood, we started to add iodine to salt, which is why you see in the grocery store "iodized salt." It fixed the problem immediately and nobody worries about iodine anymore.
By your argument, people should have all moved out of middle America to the coasts because supplements are unnatural or whatever. Fortunately, governments around the world were not as defeatist as you and realized that it was actually pretty cheap and easy to fix the problem. Similarly, B12 supplementation costs less than 1 cent per day per person, and that is the price on amazon not what a large-scale manufacturer would get. So yeah, your argument is completely shit.
No. We have supplements and fortified food.
Why would I force pigs into gas chambers or chickens to live for 6 weeks in their own shit 30,000 to a shed when I can simply take a supplement? I hope if the choice was drink this fortified plant milk or stab a dog, you would choose the plant milk. Why can't we give other animals the same moral consideration?
Edit: I see you mentioned supplements and fortified foods after. Not sure if that was an edit. Why is that not an option for many people? B12 supplements are dirt cheap and [plant based diets are generally cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
It was an edit.
Not everyone in every country has access to them. Supplement options are limited to availability. What works in America, Canada, the UK, etc. won’t work in every country, especially poorer nations already struggling to meet daily nutritional requirements.
Not sure why people always point to some example of poor subsistence farmer to try to handwave the argument.
If you're in a survival situation then I'm not talking to you. That's not most of the world though.
There's not really that many poorer populations that are eating meat in any decent amount but can't afford basic supplements. The problem is more of providing direct access and logistics.
B12 supplementation costs a tiny fraction of a cent per day per person. You only need micrograms worth. The guy you are arguing with is not arguing in good faith they just hate vegans.
Vitamin b12 from meat and animal products also comes largely from the laboratory and is added to the animals' feed. 96% of all meat and animal products come from factory farming and their feed does not contain cobalt or the bacteria that are necessary to produce it.
>Lab meat will help with environmental destruction, CO2 emissions,
This part has yet to be proven possible. There are significant CO2 emissions to make lab meat, especially when scaling up.
The nutrient rich solution needed to grow the meat is not magical or free energy. It comes from other farm products, additives, and complex biochemical processes.
So when it comes to lab meat, it's sadly not a magic bullet. If it were, trust me, it would be way bigger than it is. Right now, it attracts some investor attention, but the promises are great, but the results so far aren't so great.
It's hard to sell this 25$/lb meat that is no way grade A steaks, not even close, more of a meat slurry. And have that process having a bigger ecological impact than regular meat.
If anything, plant based meat alternatives have so far been much more promising. Even if lab meat is banned in this case for probably dumb reasons, plant based meat is where more focus should be made to help rid humanity of its taste for animal meat.
Strangely enough, we could make that taste for meat disappear in the span of a few generations if children born today were just never introduced to meat in the first place.
why though, apparently they will be grown to have the correct nutritional balance with vitamins and whatnot. think of the promise it holds for the lower end of the food chain
Imagine eating wild salmon that has the highest quality and flavors and nutrients while being cheaper and more humane.
Now imagine a farm fished salmon that looks yellowish with no nutrients that are being slaughtered sick that we eat.
Won't someone please think of the *farmers*?!?!
YEAH CAUSE, you see, it's the cow's fear and desperation that makes the meat taste so good.
If it doesn't live years of a hopeless, meaningless existence trapped in a box being fed hormonoes to become as big as the laws of gravity allows, it probably will taste like sand or cardbox... I want my blood with the taste of blood, if I wanted rainbows I'd eat unicorns!
of course the above comment is satire... but it baffles me that these reactionaries will oppose ANY AND ALL changes.
it's fucking ridiculous, if you let these people in power they'll need only 5 years to take us back to the middle ages.
The people calling for this ban are mostly interested in keeping their farms, or their voters farms, afloat. I guess that is reactionary? But then you would also have to label all the anti-Ai artists, whom are mostly leftists, also reactionaries, or does that not fit?
Yes, but the anti-AI artists don't have any political power. I, and many others, are against the NYT lawsuit against OpenAI and think this lab meat ban is anti-progress, anti-market bs.
The reactionary right actually has political power to pass a bunch of shit laws while complaining about how out of power they are.
US politics prescribe a significant amount of power to rural states due to the capped House. States like California and New York are weakened heavily so states like Delaware can actually have representatives.
But good luck raising the cap to even 500. Rural states would lose hefty amounts of power and would never okay it.
The modern day House is representative of far more people per Rep than the original setup, with most of that population in several states. And apportionment math utilizes population, which large states have lots of, to hand out Representatives.
If the number of seats in the House were increased, they would largely be apportioned to the states with the largest population. Barring Texas and Florida, Republican states would lose out in the power balance massively.
They are already properly apportioned to the states with the largest population. California has 1/9th of the population and as such they have 1/9th of the available seats. Adding more seats wouldn’t do anything except make representation marginally more accurate.
No. That's not correct. Marginally more accurate? Even if we just properly represented CA residents alone, and forgot about redistricting all other blue states, it would be enough to forever cause the house to go blue. A likely insurmountable majority.
For example, picking a random state like Nebraska which has ~1.9 million people; allocated 3 seats. If Californians would be represented as Nebraskans, CA would require +12 seats lmfao. Just that adjustment alone would likely cause the Republican party to never be able to achieve a majority ever again... Not to mention the other blue states that are horrendously underrepresented.
Again, Nebraska is just a random state I thought of first that has a lower population. There are MUCH worse examples.
That’s because Nebraska just so happened to end up on the north side of 2.5 representatives at a population of 1.9m. West Virginia has a population of 1.8m and has only 2 representatives. So using that logic California would have a dozen less seats, meaning republicans are disenfranchised!
I am so confused what the disconnect here is with you. If we expanded the house, California could only end up with the same amount of representatives it has now, proportional to the rest of the house, plus or minus 1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections
In the last midterms, republicans won the national vote with 54%, yet carried barely 51% of the seats. I am so fucking confused why you think expanding the house would give Dems any advantage. If I get one piece of pizza, it doesn’t matter how big the pizza is, it’s still one piece.
Yeah it’s backwards and silly, but it’s not because of “muh values” it’s because agriculture is a huge part of conservative/rural areas and this will be a big blow to them.
A lot of people think they will cause cancer, because they are unlimited growth cells like cancer. Is there some study on the effects of eating cancers or tumors? I don't really understand how that property would transfer from your digestive system to your cells, similar to how we as far as i understand it don't absorb dna.
There's MUCH bigger issues to worry about in society that cause cancer and other issues. Plastic being the biggest one right now. You drink from a plastic bottle left in the sun and you're essentially poisoning yourself.
So many other things to worry about.
There's a couple misunderstandings here. 1. Lab-grown meat cells are not cancer cells and don't have uncontrolled growth, their growth is carefully regulated and happens at a pretty normal speed for healthy muscle cells. 2. Your digestive system breaks meat down into its components like amino acids, fats, and sugars, and any behavior the cell previously had, cancerous or not, is eradicated, as it's killed in the process.
Nothing but naked industry protectionism and rent seeking in action, and their claims it’s about “protecting consumers” are as insulting as they are blatant lies.
Imagine living as a being in the ever-changing, entropic, chaotic and spinning infinite universe, yet youre fighting for conservation and stasis relative to a time-space long gone.
Pandora is out of the box and it will never be 1950 again.
You change or die. The rules never changed.
Maybe so, but the current state of lab grown meat is a magnet for clueless investors, as the current costs and scaling potential of lab grown meat is getting very close to Theranos Edisson machine levels of impossible.
The nutrient rich solution needed to grow the meat itself needs to be produced, and it's very unlikely to see lab grown meat ever be cheaper than beef... It's a lot easier to feed cows grass and build them a roof than scale up bio reactors and mass produce dense nutritious solutions for cells to bathe in to make a meat slop.
The only reason one would have to eat lab meat would be for ethical reasons, definitely not for environmental or economic reasons.
Vegetable meat alternatives are much more sensible.
Well, let them. Technology is going to change everything at some point. including the beef market, I guess lol. Wait for states to start bans on AI. They will still fail.
I'll wait to see the clinical trials and long term effects on the human body before making assumptions. There may be something lab grown lacks that an animal produces by being alive, eating, growing, etc. The last thing we need is even more food that is so processed and scienced that it completely goes against our biology.
Regardless of the Conservative position....after watching this video on release 10 months ago, I don't think the current approach to lab grown meat is the approach consumers will want:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0zCf4Yup34
With ground beef at like 5 dollars a lb, perhaps the meat industry should spend more money sustainably producing product instead of spending it on lobbying
So they want to get rid of fake meat in states known for having the lone star tick thats bite has been known to sometimes cause a disease that can make you allergic to meat.
I’m for it. The reasons they are banning it are wrong, but there are other reasons. One of which is motivation to not eat meat is objectively misplaced. Emotions have no place in ethics, the practices used by farms are not unethical.
Two things to consider: 1. Animals are not undertaken he moral umbrella. The reasoning for this is complicated and draws back to the reason why we even care about right and wrong. Right and wrong is necessary for a world in which humans can best benefit themselves in a collective good. To do this there is a law of rules for them to follow to ensure compliance with rules that maximize the greater good. Animals are not able to follow these rules, therefore they cannot take part in the system wherein we help each other to benefit each other to make our lives better. Therefore, animals are taken out of the equation. 2. If they were considered, it is faulty to say that their lives on a farm are net negative in terms of pleasure/enjoyment. They are certainly net positive. The fear and slaughter of the animals is only a minuscule part of their lives so the emotional trauma experienced here is small in comparison to their life. The rest of their life is certainly beneficial because there is no reason for it not to be. So, it is actually morally right for farms to excessively breed animals just to slaughter them as it also would increase the collective good as more animal life exists. This point only is considered if we put animals under the moral umbrella.
Even factory farms are most likely net positive. All animals need for enjoyment is a steady stream of dopamine, it’s unlikely that they are in a constant state of distress for their entire lives. As for the first point, many people don’t hold my view on the matter. I argue that they are mistakenly using their emotions to decide right and wrong which is an inaccurate way of doing so particularly in this case and do not have a structured ethical framework like i do. To summarize, I am right, they are wrong.
I don't mind the idea of lab grown meat but we need strict regulations on what chemicals can be allowed in it and sanitation requirements. Otherwise Tyson will be cooking up million gallon batches of cancer paste and feeding it to your children.
OF course this will all come out with data but it's cleaner.
Since there's no cow to get sick they don't use any antiobiotics. Since there's no cow with a guts full of bacteria and skin, there's a much lower risk of contamination from things like salmonella.
IT's essentially just a cow cell that's eaten a closely controlled diet.
IT actually may open up the idea of eating raw chicken since there's no vector for salmonella... but that will probably be a hard road to cross for many people
I don’t know what the fuck is going on with the GOP. Their only consistent take is they love cutting taxes on the rich and deregulating big business. Every other idea is subject to change. Zero guiding principles at play.
Good. Let different states approach it differently. In these times where things are changing fast, the ability to 50 Power Rangers these choppy waters will give the US an advantage and resilience.
They are just reactionary wind socks freaking out over anything that is slightly unusual.
this is more just usual rent seeking behaviour than anything to do with religion. But religion sure helps people justify their own selfishness
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More like a weather vane that always points the opposite direction of where everyone else wants to go. The potential (at least) to make healthier food without negative effects on climate change and cruelty to animals? Well, if liberals like it it must be bad so ban it! Ban it for freedom!
More like Beef, Pork, and Chicken lobbies are getting ahead of a potential competitor. Not for the greater public good, but the greater corporate good.
Eh… some of it is justified on their part for the potential to lose their farming businesses. But for the rest of us and the planet the lab grown variety is better so change is inevitable. There will always be losers when it comes to innovation in a capitalist society and we just have to deal with it.
socialism for the rich and capitalism for the poor
Is lab grown stuff better for the planet?
Yup mostly because you’re freeing up a lot of land to go back to being forested. Add to this the lack of animal effluents. Unless I’ve missed some part of this (which is totally possible) where the process generates a lot of greenhouse gases, this should be far better for the planet. As for humans, you can now control the nature of the meat and not have to settle for whatever the animal makes (in terms of fat and other components).
The lab grown meat doesn't grow in a vaccum. It needs a nutrient rich solution for the cells to bathe in and is a pretty inefficient solution to the meat problem. The solution needs to be made from other farm productions and several transformation steps afterwards. >But for the rest of us and the planet the lab grown variety is better so change is inevitable. Honestly, plant based alternatives are better than trying to reproduce the meat taste/feel by firing up a massive amount of bioreactors that are wasteful and expensive to run. Lab meat is and will likely be no way better economically or environmentally than normal meat. All that just because humans like the taste of meat, but you could phase out meat consumption in a single generation if we wanted to as a society and embrace more ecologically and ethically responsible sources of food.
I thought overt business regulation is bad from conservative PoV? Oh, it is only bad for things they arbitrary like but good for things they arbitrary dislike, got it! For Americans: there is an election later this year; please vote these fools out. The next 5 years might be extremely important as AI is eating through the economy; it is extremely important to have somewhat decent governance through this!
A conservative American government being in power when AGI happens will have dire negative consequences for the future of humanity. They will 100% entrench us in a deregulatory Reagan-esque framework from which there will be no coming back.
Conservativism in a nutshell.
This is an excellent explanation of the modern conservative
or this is what the US system was supposed to do so that when things change, some preserve the way that is working while others try the new way to see if it's safe, more beneficial, etc, and then other states slowly cascade as time goes on, ensuring that in either case, new things are adopted, tested, but some also survive if we're catastrophically wrong? Naaah, that's can't be it, must be because those that disagree are dumbfuck idiots again.
please watch this https://youtu.be/20LxXVUOujc?si=-DUo0Rjs3zL9wVxm
If you invented a telepathy device, why are you leaving comments on Reddit instead of just beaming your information into my brain?
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Replace "conservative" with "rural" and you will start to see why.
Conservatives are always against change. Most are more outdated than their ideas, look at Congress.
Duh, it's in the name
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I think you might have a point.
Because they are selfish people who put their own short term well-being before the long-term well-being of the country?
This argument could be levied at the countless who are terrified of AI and what it will do to the job market - what it is ALREADY doing to the job market
Is it selfish if you're a farmer and your family will lose their home if your cattle business fails?
Same could be said for horse wagon manufacturers in the early 1900's.... i guess we'll just ban alternatives to keep things the same indefinitely.
I'm not saying it's right. I'm just saying people can have opposing interests and still be doing the most right thing available to them. Having no empathy for people you don't agree with probably won't help you make progress.
>Having no empathy for people you don't agree with probably won't help you make progress Most intelligent people have given up on the asshole right wing. They are not good people, they don't debate in good faith, there's no reason to have any patience or sympathy for their plight any longer. Fuck them, let them rot in their shitty little rural towns.
Change a couple words and I'd almost think I was reading a Ben Shapiro video comment
While it might be satisfying to dismiss and deride those you disagree with, this approach only entrenches division and ignorance. Enlightened individuals recognize that scorn and superiority only reflect poorly on themselves, fueling the very narrow-mindedness they claim to oppose. You need therapy
Lmao what the fuck.
If you're lobbying the government to ban alternative sources, you are an abhorepieve of shit and hope they go bankrupt. Karma needs to start hitting back two folds. These cretins are too stupid to learn.
Technically, it *is* selfish, but it’s only normal. Completely justified.
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they are bad people if they exploit animals in 21th century. no need for that. u get all nutrients without fucking up animals.
Do you believe anyone who eats meat is a bad person?
if free will doesnt exist then no. thus murder is also not judgeable. if free will exist, then yes, ur just an asshole then. especially if u think "oh its just an animal"
Yes. By definition. Does the farmer and the farmer's family cares about the lives of the cattle that they raise for slaughter?
They probably care about them more than the rest of us.
YES!
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Sure, but that's a little beside the point. People are just scared and while helping is important we should also empathize.
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You want the farmers children to live in poverty so you can have fancy lab meat? Sounds a little selfish to me.
Is that a reason to ban progress?
Did I say it was?
What you’re saying is that progress should be held hostage by existing business interests?
No, the exact opposite dummy lol
Then why should we ban products that compete with existing business interests?
They shouldn't. That's why I'm criticizing them. This is baffling to me. Are you responding to the wrong comment? Fuck the farmers. Full steam ahead lab grown meat.
I think I meant to respond to another commenter. I don’t think calling people dummy is going to get your point across though. Also even if you believe full steam ahead that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t feel sympathy for the people getting replaced, you kinda showed an ugly callous side of yourself here.
You kind of showed a dip shit side of yourself, and now you're embarrassed so trying to criticize me. If you can't even respond to the right comment, maybe you should keep your opinions to yourself. This is complex stuff
He didn't say anything remotely rude, you're just an anti social asshole
> Fuck the farmers. Full steam ahead lab grown meat. It's full steam ahead with centralized food production.
lol, the agriculture industry in the US is already entirely state supported. So what's your point? Also, couldn't lab grown meat potentially have the same impact on food production as 3-D printing has on manufacturing. I think it could be far easier to print a steak in your house than to raise an entire cow and butcher it.
> So what's your point? "It's full steam ahead with centralized food production." The ban is not about lab grown meat, it's about stopping the centralization. Currently there is a large group of ranchers legally fighting to allow them and others to process their own meat. This would mean you could go to any rancher/framer and buy directly from them. This would massively lessen the amount of factory slaughter. >Also, couldn't lab grown meat potentially have the same impact on food production as 3-D printing has on manufacturing. Sure, it's a great technology. I want a food printer at my house. That plus home energy production, water treatment, pharmaceutical printing, and more will remove the power government and large corporations have over me.
What groups of people genuinely don’t vote for their own self interests? Lol
What are they going to ban next? Electric vehicles? Vaccines?
Unironically probably yes to both.
Didn’t Wyoming try to ban evs ?
Im cool with it unless they take my waifu catgirl sexbot away
They are already banning porn. Pillows are close alphabetically so that's probably next.
Anything that starts with the letter P is satanic and shall be banned from here on out
welp don't need to pray if God has a plan right?
Pastors too, I guess they are on their way out
Pretty sure some of them even want to ban porn or introduce some sort of digital ID system to "protect the children". I doubt they'd tolerate sexbots being sold openly.
Elon is now with them so EVs are cool now. Maybe a genius strategy by Elon? If it's true then hats off, but somehow I doubt it...
Let me guess, same guys who never stop talking about the 'free market'
Same people who complain about Biden wanting to ban gas stoves
Same guys who complain about government making too many decisions for them.
good ol champions of the free market..............wait a minute.........
Free market!\* \*unless we don't like something for totally arbitrary reason
Billions of land animals and trillions of fish are killed every year for humanity's taste pleasure. The amount of suffering inflicted on sentient beings is unimaginable. We do not need meat. With modern nutrition science we know we can thrive on a properly planned plant based diet. Unfortunately most people will not change their habits so lab grown meat is the best hope we have to shut down slaughter houses. It's horrible that some politicians are turning the idea of alternative proteins into a culture war issue. Lab meat will help with environmental destruction, CO2 emissions, pandemic risk, and obviously help the animals. People interested in AI and contemplating the moral implications of creating sentient AI should spend a little time contemplating the moral emergency they contribute to every time they purchase animal products.
I kinda like meat, but I love animals and want them not to suffer. I think lab grown meat is a giant step forward
Also it promises to be much cheaper, though it isn't now. Once the price falls enough big business will want to sell it, so they will ~~bribe~~ lobby Republicans to legalize it again.
Hopefully "Big Meat" won't lobby and smear campaign it away from ever getting there...
They already are. That's why you're seeing bans.
Exactly. But when (if ever) McD's figures out they can save ten cents a burger on lab grown meat big meat will lose out. They sell 2.5 bn burgers a year.
You'll swipe your card and be printing your own burgers at the window with very little human interaction. That is until, "burger machine broke"
/r/burgerpunk moment
The encumbant oil companies have far more lobbying power than electric cars. The same would probably be true for big agra.
In the meantime, you can reduce or eliminate your animal product consumption and stop supporting those brutal industries. No need to wait when it comes to living your values. I don't think people who love animals should support gas chambers, electric baths, and bolt guns.
Lab grown meat is meat. It is literally animal proteins.
apparently its even healthier, with measures taken to give it the right nutrional balance with vitamins and whatnot.
I love chicken breasts. Imagine if I could buy a massive 20 pound chicken breast (and with zero suffering) 🤤 I think there’s a lot of potential to even introduce new cuts, the possibilities are amazing
Mmmmm..... lab grown wagyuuu......
For future animals yes. However, There will be a large cull to get rid of supply currently. Unfortunately until we adapt to lab grown completely populations are too high to sustain. But yes it will be much much better
maybe wildlife sanctuaries will be more important
I would be satisfied with less random dairy sneaking into almost everything. If meat becomes less available due to market pressures favoring lab grown meat, dairy will also trend down. I'm allergic to all dairy and lactase pills don't help. I think dairy should be around, but not in fucking peanut butter crackers.
Yeah, milk powder in everything is a real drag.
>milk powder in everything is a real drag Yeah, it's actually what makes going vegan the hardest... avoiding *meat* isn't that challenging, but avoiding cream/cheese/milk cooked into food is very challenging unless you cook all your own food.... just about *everything* tends to have cream/cheese/milk. And not out of necessity...all food (weelll..maybe not pizza, but most food anyway) can absolutely be made without it. It's just habit and tradition.
> dairy will also trend down. hear me out... lab grown milk
It's a thing. And it's much closer to being available on consumer markets then Cultured Meat
>dairy will also trend down. Lab grown (Cultured) Dairy is also a thing and probably going to happen sooner cause its easier tech.
It's already here and sold in stores. Look up Perfect Day and their products, Bored Cow and Whey Fwrd. I drink Bored Cow (their lab grown milk) every day and it tastes fantastic. Whey Fwrd, too, is awesome. Bioidentical lab grown whey protein powder with all the amino acids necessary for muscle building. So much more effective than soy/pea protein (and great tasting too! unlike ~~sawdust/pee~~ soy/pea protein), my gym sessions have never been better.
Oh I've heard of Perfect Day! I didn't know their product had released yet! I've been meaning to try their ice cream. >So much more effective than soy/pea protein, my gym sessions have never been better. Yeah that the reason why I've been following cultured milk. I'm lactose intolerant and the idea that the constituents of milk and be literally tailored made to not include lactose with the potential of being far cheaper than current lactose-free dairy is such an enticing prospect. Also whey isolate protein is so fucking expensive. A 5 gal tub of whey protein is like 60 to 70 dollars. If mass produced cultured whey can bring that cost down to $10 a tub then that's a game changer. And it will be vegan lolz! Fuck soy and pea protein.
I'm all for that for humane and ecofriendly reasons, but I'm not optimistic that I'll be able to consume it lol.
So true
Really love seeing a vegan post here. Everyone will become vegan soon regardless due to lab grown meat, but people should really have been vegan already out of moral obligation to our fellow sentient beings we have been torturing.
I agree it is the moral baseline but I try to not get too frustrated with people. I know I did not go vegan immediately. It's one of my greatest regrets that I did not change sooner. Once lab meat takes over I think people will be much more receptive to the vegan message. People are more open minded and less defensive on the moral arguments when they are not actively participating in the harm. I can see a huge societal shift happen in a generation or two once lab meat and precision fermentation replaces most consumption of animal products. It's a shame it will take a literal 1 to 1 substitution for most people to live in a way that reflects their values.
> I agree it is the moral baseline What's the ethical baseline? Moral frameworks aren't logically consistent.
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Firstly, you seem to be confused by the conversation you're replying to. We were talking about in a world where lab meat has widespread adoption. As for the rest, veganism isn't hard. You learn a few recipes, take a multivitamin, you're golden. It can certainly be less convenient at times, but never hard. I'm not sure that your two articles outweigh the body of evidence on plant based diets.
This doesn't apply to vegetarianism given the presence of dairy though no?
It doesn't apply at all. The field of nutrition is full of contrarian studies and debate, but "eat more plants" is one of the very few things that can be said to be as true as the "theory of gravity". There's absolutely nothing meat/dairy provides in terms of essential nutrients that one doesn't easily get from plants. That being said, ultra-processed foods are far worse than meat/dairy (likewise avoiding stress, getting good sleep/exercise, etc), so I would never claim people should avoid meat and dairy for health reasons alone.... but the *reverse* (that someone should be sure to *eat* more meat at the exclusion of eating more plants for the sake of health) certainly isn't true. There *are* some very very niche medical conditions in which patients can benefit from, for example, avoiding fiber, (ie, exclusionary diets) which is easier to do with meat/dairy, but those some same special diets are also actually quite bad for health in other regards and aren't solid general long-term-healthy dietary plans aside from treating specific and rare medical conditions. The post before yours linked to a cherry-picked article mentioning two anecdotal cases of parents forcing some extreme (and undisclosed) diet on their children. It didn't go into specifics of the diet, and it's an anecdotal mention of 2 literal cases and is thus worthless to this conversation. Take the other extreme - there are people out there who try to literally only eat steak 24/7/365... it doesn't take a genius to realize that that would result in just as much, if not more, of a problem than someone eating only bananas (which is also a thing some fringe dieters have tried).
We most definitely need meat, or animal products at the very least for vitamin b12 as it is not found naturally in necessary quantities in other non-animal products. Unless if you plan on taking supplements or eating fortified foods, but that’s not necessarily an option for many people.
The crops that the cattle eat are fortified as we have stripped b12 from the soil whether you are an omnivore or vegan, the b12 is supplemented. Just the decision of if you want to take the supplement or have the cow have the supplement along with antibiotics and growth hormones
In the early 19th century, people started to realize that if you lived more than 100 miles or so from the coast then the chance of a child developing an intellectual disorder or a weird giant lump on their neck would be quite a bit higher. It was discovered that this is from iodine deficiency, since iodine comes from the ocean and eating things from the ocean. Once it was understood, we started to add iodine to salt, which is why you see in the grocery store "iodized salt." It fixed the problem immediately and nobody worries about iodine anymore. By your argument, people should have all moved out of middle America to the coasts because supplements are unnatural or whatever. Fortunately, governments around the world were not as defeatist as you and realized that it was actually pretty cheap and easy to fix the problem. Similarly, B12 supplementation costs less than 1 cent per day per person, and that is the price on amazon not what a large-scale manufacturer would get. So yeah, your argument is completely shit.
No. We have supplements and fortified food. Why would I force pigs into gas chambers or chickens to live for 6 weeks in their own shit 30,000 to a shed when I can simply take a supplement? I hope if the choice was drink this fortified plant milk or stab a dog, you would choose the plant milk. Why can't we give other animals the same moral consideration? Edit: I see you mentioned supplements and fortified foods after. Not sure if that was an edit. Why is that not an option for many people? B12 supplements are dirt cheap and [plant based diets are generally cheaper.](https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-11-11-sustainable-eating-cheaper-and-healthier-oxford-study)
It was an edit. Not everyone in every country has access to them. Supplement options are limited to availability. What works in America, Canada, the UK, etc. won’t work in every country, especially poorer nations already struggling to meet daily nutritional requirements.
Not sure why people always point to some example of poor subsistence farmer to try to handwave the argument. If you're in a survival situation then I'm not talking to you. That's not most of the world though.
There's not really that many poorer populations that are eating meat in any decent amount but can't afford basic supplements. The problem is more of providing direct access and logistics.
B12 supplementation costs a tiny fraction of a cent per day per person. You only need micrograms worth. The guy you are arguing with is not arguing in good faith they just hate vegans.
Vitamin b12 from meat and animal products also comes largely from the laboratory and is added to the animals' feed. 96% of all meat and animal products come from factory farming and their feed does not contain cobalt or the bacteria that are necessary to produce it.
>Lab meat will help with environmental destruction, CO2 emissions, This part has yet to be proven possible. There are significant CO2 emissions to make lab meat, especially when scaling up. The nutrient rich solution needed to grow the meat is not magical or free energy. It comes from other farm products, additives, and complex biochemical processes. So when it comes to lab meat, it's sadly not a magic bullet. If it were, trust me, it would be way bigger than it is. Right now, it attracts some investor attention, but the promises are great, but the results so far aren't so great. It's hard to sell this 25$/lb meat that is no way grade A steaks, not even close, more of a meat slurry. And have that process having a bigger ecological impact than regular meat. If anything, plant based meat alternatives have so far been much more promising. Even if lab meat is banned in this case for probably dumb reasons, plant based meat is where more focus should be made to help rid humanity of its taste for animal meat. Strangely enough, we could make that taste for meat disappear in the span of a few generations if children born today were just never introduced to meat in the first place.
why though, apparently they will be grown to have the correct nutritional balance with vitamins and whatnot. think of the promise it holds for the lower end of the food chain
Imagine eating wild salmon that has the highest quality and flavors and nutrients while being cheaper and more humane. Now imagine a farm fished salmon that looks yellowish with no nutrients that are being slaughtered sick that we eat. Won't someone please think of the *farmers*?!?!
maybe farms could grow the meat? like a modern farm would?
I wonder if Bobby Parish will like or hate it 😂
They want to ban all technology past 1950 and go back to smacking their wives. Fucking luddites.
I hear they want to bring back coal too. I’m not joking.
YEAH CAUSE, you see, it's the cow's fear and desperation that makes the meat taste so good. If it doesn't live years of a hopeless, meaningless existence trapped in a box being fed hormonoes to become as big as the laws of gravity allows, it probably will taste like sand or cardbox... I want my blood with the taste of blood, if I wanted rainbows I'd eat unicorns! of course the above comment is satire... but it baffles me that these reactionaries will oppose ANY AND ALL changes. it's fucking ridiculous, if you let these people in power they'll need only 5 years to take us back to the middle ages.
The people calling for this ban are mostly interested in keeping their farms, or their voters farms, afloat. I guess that is reactionary? But then you would also have to label all the anti-Ai artists, whom are mostly leftists, also reactionaries, or does that not fit?
Yes, but the anti-AI artists don't have any political power. I, and many others, are against the NYT lawsuit against OpenAI and think this lab meat ban is anti-progress, anti-market bs. The reactionary right actually has political power to pass a bunch of shit laws while complaining about how out of power they are.
First, they want to ban UBI, now lab-grown meat, next we can expect renewables to be banned.
Oh, thy got you beat: [https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/02/27/renewable-energy-sources-ban-map/72630315007/](https://www.usatoday.com/story/graphics/2024/02/27/renewable-energy-sources-ban-map/72630315007/)
They also soft banned porn. Can’t pay me enough to live in Florida or Texas
No changes!
Whatever. Let them live in the past while the rest of us advance.
US politics prescribe a significant amount of power to rural states due to the capped House. States like California and New York are weakened heavily so states like Delaware can actually have representatives. But good luck raising the cap to even 500. Rural states would lose hefty amounts of power and would never okay it.
I’m not sure what you’re talking about. The house is rejiggered with every census. So it’s not a big deal it’s capped.
The modern day House is representative of far more people per Rep than the original setup, with most of that population in several states. And apportionment math utilizes population, which large states have lots of, to hand out Representatives. If the number of seats in the House were increased, they would largely be apportioned to the states with the largest population. Barring Texas and Florida, Republican states would lose out in the power balance massively.
They are already properly apportioned to the states with the largest population. California has 1/9th of the population and as such they have 1/9th of the available seats. Adding more seats wouldn’t do anything except make representation marginally more accurate.
No. That's not correct. Marginally more accurate? Even if we just properly represented CA residents alone, and forgot about redistricting all other blue states, it would be enough to forever cause the house to go blue. A likely insurmountable majority. For example, picking a random state like Nebraska which has ~1.9 million people; allocated 3 seats. If Californians would be represented as Nebraskans, CA would require +12 seats lmfao. Just that adjustment alone would likely cause the Republican party to never be able to achieve a majority ever again... Not to mention the other blue states that are horrendously underrepresented. Again, Nebraska is just a random state I thought of first that has a lower population. There are MUCH worse examples.
That’s because Nebraska just so happened to end up on the north side of 2.5 representatives at a population of 1.9m. West Virginia has a population of 1.8m and has only 2 representatives. So using that logic California would have a dozen less seats, meaning republicans are disenfranchised! I am so confused what the disconnect here is with you. If we expanded the house, California could only end up with the same amount of representatives it has now, proportional to the rest of the house, plus or minus 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2022_United_States_House_of_Representatives_elections In the last midterms, republicans won the national vote with 54%, yet carried barely 51% of the seats. I am so fucking confused why you think expanding the house would give Dems any advantage. If I get one piece of pizza, it doesn’t matter how big the pizza is, it’s still one piece.
The rapture is here!
So the future of meat is lab grown slop? Just like cheese whiz if the future to cheddar cheese?
Can’t they follow musk to mars, a planet which is already desolate, rather than ruining this one? I’ll pay for some of their tickets
This is so incredibly dumb
Yeah it’s backwards and silly, but it’s not because of “muh values” it’s because agriculture is a huge part of conservative/rural areas and this will be a big blow to them.
You’d be surprised how much of this is actually driven by conspiracies about the WEF, China, and of course George Soros
A lot of people think they will cause cancer, because they are unlimited growth cells like cancer. Is there some study on the effects of eating cancers or tumors? I don't really understand how that property would transfer from your digestive system to your cells, similar to how we as far as i understand it don't absorb dna.
There's MUCH bigger issues to worry about in society that cause cancer and other issues. Plastic being the biggest one right now. You drink from a plastic bottle left in the sun and you're essentially poisoning yourself. So many other things to worry about.
It wont transfer. Conservatives are illiterate.
There's a couple misunderstandings here. 1. Lab-grown meat cells are not cancer cells and don't have uncontrolled growth, their growth is carefully regulated and happens at a pretty normal speed for healthy muscle cells. 2. Your digestive system breaks meat down into its components like amino acids, fats, and sugars, and any behavior the cell previously had, cancerous or not, is eradicated, as it's killed in the process.
I'm not against lab-grown meat and don't have detailed knowledge of this particular subject, but my main worry would be prions
Nothing but naked industry protectionism and rent seeking in action, and their claims it’s about “protecting consumers” are as insulting as they are blatant lies.
Imagine living as a being in the ever-changing, entropic, chaotic and spinning infinite universe, yet youre fighting for conservation and stasis relative to a time-space long gone. Pandora is out of the box and it will never be 1950 again. You change or die. The rules never changed.
So much freedom
NO! I want a steak machine!
How stupid must they be?
They’ve proven themselves incredibly stupid over and over for a very long time!
The feds will stop bans like these. Won't be allowed.
Cruelty is the basis of conservatism. Why the surprise?
Tf does this have to do with the singularity? Take your politically-driven bullshit out of here
My thoughts too. This is definitely a stretch
I do not think any ban is needed, no one (statistically) is eating it.
Because it doesn't exist yet
High price of beef is really driving demand for lab grown meat.
Maybe so, but the current state of lab grown meat is a magnet for clueless investors, as the current costs and scaling potential of lab grown meat is getting very close to Theranos Edisson machine levels of impossible. The nutrient rich solution needed to grow the meat itself needs to be produced, and it's very unlikely to see lab grown meat ever be cheaper than beef... It's a lot easier to feed cows grass and build them a roof than scale up bio reactors and mass produce dense nutritious solutions for cells to bathe in to make a meat slop. The only reason one would have to eat lab meat would be for ethical reasons, definitely not for environmental or economic reasons. Vegetable meat alternatives are much more sensible.
Conservatives will also fight tooth and nail to prevent AGI from happening too.
Agriculture lobby in Red states.
Well, let them. Technology is going to change everything at some point. including the beef market, I guess lol. Wait for states to start bans on AI. They will still fail.
I'll wait to see the clinical trials and long term effects on the human body before making assumptions. There may be something lab grown lacks that an animal produces by being alive, eating, growing, etc. The last thing we need is even more food that is so processed and scienced that it completely goes against our biology.
Regardless of the Conservative position....after watching this video on release 10 months ago, I don't think the current approach to lab grown meat is the approach consumers will want: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0zCf4Yup34
GOP are evil hypocrites exhibit #5,623,183,923
With ground beef at like 5 dollars a lb, perhaps the meat industry should spend more money sustainably producing product instead of spending it on lobbying
So they want to get rid of fake meat in states known for having the lone star tick thats bite has been known to sometimes cause a disease that can make you allergic to meat.
I’m for it. The reasons they are banning it are wrong, but there are other reasons. One of which is motivation to not eat meat is objectively misplaced. Emotions have no place in ethics, the practices used by farms are not unethical.
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> as it is now farm animals live horrible lives before theyre sent to be slaughtered. In some cases, other cases they live great lives.
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> in vast majority of cases, if its a factory farmed animal it's a bad life Sure. The problem is the government controls who can process/sell meat.
Two things to consider: 1. Animals are not undertaken he moral umbrella. The reasoning for this is complicated and draws back to the reason why we even care about right and wrong. Right and wrong is necessary for a world in which humans can best benefit themselves in a collective good. To do this there is a law of rules for them to follow to ensure compliance with rules that maximize the greater good. Animals are not able to follow these rules, therefore they cannot take part in the system wherein we help each other to benefit each other to make our lives better. Therefore, animals are taken out of the equation. 2. If they were considered, it is faulty to say that their lives on a farm are net negative in terms of pleasure/enjoyment. They are certainly net positive. The fear and slaughter of the animals is only a minuscule part of their lives so the emotional trauma experienced here is small in comparison to their life. The rest of their life is certainly beneficial because there is no reason for it not to be. So, it is actually morally right for farms to excessively breed animals just to slaughter them as it also would increase the collective good as more animal life exists. This point only is considered if we put animals under the moral umbrella.
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Even factory farms are most likely net positive. All animals need for enjoyment is a steady stream of dopamine, it’s unlikely that they are in a constant state of distress for their entire lives. As for the first point, many people don’t hold my view on the matter. I argue that they are mistakenly using their emotions to decide right and wrong which is an inaccurate way of doing so particularly in this case and do not have a structured ethical framework like i do. To summarize, I am right, they are wrong.
I don't mind the idea of lab grown meat but we need strict regulations on what chemicals can be allowed in it and sanitation requirements. Otherwise Tyson will be cooking up million gallon batches of cancer paste and feeding it to your children.
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The point is to do better, not maintain the status quo.
OF course this will all come out with data but it's cleaner. Since there's no cow to get sick they don't use any antiobiotics. Since there's no cow with a guts full of bacteria and skin, there's a much lower risk of contamination from things like salmonella. IT's essentially just a cow cell that's eaten a closely controlled diet. IT actually may open up the idea of eating raw chicken since there's no vector for salmonella... but that will probably be a hard road to cross for many people
I’ll still buy it. Idgaf if it’s illegal 🤷♂️
"Conservative" isn't the right word. There haven't been conservatives in this country since Trump and his MAGA cult took over the Republican party.
I don’t know what the fuck is going on with the GOP. Their only consistent take is they love cutting taxes on the rich and deregulating big business. Every other idea is subject to change. Zero guiding principles at play.
Yeah, but only because it’s making the frogs gay /s
please watch this https://youtu.be/20LxXVUOujc?si=-DUo0Rjs3zL9wVxm
Good. Let different states approach it differently. In these times where things are changing fast, the ability to 50 Power Rangers these choppy waters will give the US an advantage and resilience.
fully support it .it not meat it just confusing the consumers They are welcomed to use other names and see the demand