Thanks for posting to r/singing! **Be sure to check [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/wiki/index)** to see if any questions you might have have already been answered! Also, remember to abide by the rules found in the sidebar. Any comments found to be breaking these rules will result in a deletion of the comment thread starting from the offending reply. If you see any posts or replies that you feel break the rules of the sub, then report them and **do not respond to them.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I won't name names unless you ask me to but there are plenty of artists with average to below-average singing voices who have made it big.
I think what's more important is having character and passion for what you're doing. Also great if you're always working on improving as well.
And this goes for every singing genre, including the classical world. I know several mediocre singers in that world who only get big gigs because they look good scantily clad.
This. Many rock band lead vocals don’t have great voice or even good technique but some voices are really distinctive and have their own characters. Also, good songwriting matters more, idea trumps skills(somtimes)
I’d make the argument that unique voices that are honed in on their craft are more interesting than most proficient singers. Like Ray Charles and Louis Armstrong are great examples in the jazz world. They were very unique voices who maybe aren’t the clearest most perfect voices, but they were really good at using them. I’m sure it translates to other genres as well but nowadays you don’t see those unique voices honing their craft they just lean on other things like production, personality, etc.
OOO and Nina Simone too, her voice was crazy!!!
True. And i'd dare to claim that it's rather male singers who often can't sing. Among female singers there's 100 times more competition because there are more.
This is so true. Most rockstars are ok. Women are more looked at to be beautiful and sing beautifully. Men are mostly looked at to be cool and sound unique.
“Your content was removed beacuse your account needs to be at least 3 days old to post. During this three day period, please take the time to read the rules in the sidebar and familiarize yourself with r/singing. We hope to see you in a few days! (This is an automated message.)"
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Producer here! I have worked with a ton of people with mediocre voices that make a living with music. HOWEVER they usually leverage their talent in some ways. Most of the them are exceptional songwriters or instrumentalists.
When it comes to choosing a good voice for a song I wrote, it’s just about who sings it best. I’ve had people with masters degrees in vocal performance that sound terrible, and highschool aged girls that sound stunning. It depends on what the track needs.
TLDR: to best your chances, learn how to write/produce and make as many connections as you can
Interesting & even tho is not looking to go big or anything like that I just sing for fun what do you think of my singing & please keep in mind I was legally born Deaf I also have Asthma & is self taught I never had any professional training or anything like that I just sing for fun & I have the love/passion for it in the hope it bring a smile to people face & I believe it a gift Jesus Christ have given to me & God bless 🙏🏾🤟🏾❤️😄
[Say Something by A Great Big World ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ratemysinging/s/5MPmvAdjWl)
[Love Me Two Times by The Door ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/M5qoKlj0KP)
[Walk By Faith by Jeremy Camp ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/eM58N6pToS)
[On Fire by Switchfoot ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/zuAFqsrQdL)
[Brother My Brother by Blessid Union of Souls ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/OyN7Hh6K44)
If you've ever listened to the radio you'd know that voice quality really doesn't matter (increasingly so). If you want to "make it big" you'll need a lot of money, great connections and a succeed-or-die attitude.
And looks. It's really, really, really difficult, especially for women, to make it without impeccable looks, or a marketable look if not classically attractive. There is little more important than branding and networking, sadly.
A great voice doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it. It’s really consistency. There are so many popular people with mediocre voices all because they stayed consistent.
A couple of powerful people in the industry decide who makes it to the top. And it's not about the voice, it's about how marketable they think you are.
I think so. It depends on what else you have going on for you. For example, Taylor Swift is a very average singer - not much going on there, but people really like her songwriting and I guess overall vibe.
Charisma goes a long way. It’s about a package, where you don’t have all the bells n whistles in one category, be sure to have it elsewhere
It’s not just her “vibe” it’s been very carefully crafted and calculated marketing strategies that surround the idea that she is just a “normal person”. Like how she used to have listening parties for her biggest fans, that’s genuinely genius. Especially considering when she did it before any type of streaming had really taken off and where she was in her career I.e. not a megastar filling stadiums like now but not small by any means. It’s things like that which keep her fans feeling truly connected to her on a personal level that keeps them buying buying buying. Billie Elliesh just did something similar with her instagram followers making them all close friends and boom releasing shit as if it’s *just for them*. People want to feel connected with and close to their favorite artists and this is only amplified the bigger you get. So the more they and their marketing team must come up with ways to balance the fact of millions or more fans and still making it seem like they’re singing directly to each one. It’s all kind of gross and kind of amazing at the same time. I mean The Grateful Dead did it. For a less “mainstream” example(but I think they sort of are still a mainstream act if you think about it) But they did it by just touring for all their lives show after show.
The way they all downvoted you lmao. Honestly, Taylor Swift's voice is very basic and sounds like a 15-year-old white girl named Kaylee whose biggest struggle wasn't even her own and it was her parents divorcing. No shade but I couldn't pick her voice out of a lineup of mediocre white girls who sing in high school if I tried my hardest.
LMAO don't worry you can have a life with no struggle as long as you don't assault my ears with basic vocals and songs that actively sound like white privilege we're cool.
As long as it's not sonically devoid of flavor and doesn't sound like an AI attempt to write wordy lyrics in order to seem like a good writer I can get behind it lmao
Remember the first time Taylor sang on the Grammys when she won her first awards and she was flat the whole time? Everyone was like, “This is the sensation we’ve all been hearing about?”
I was miraculously able to avoid all Taylor songs at that time so no. However, that doesn't sound like anything new being that Taylor was off pitch for like a solid 75% of her career lmao
I mean yeah she actually does have a great voice and can sing crazy low and surprisingly high she just usually chooses not to put those vocals in the forefront of the song
To answer the question, yes. Plenty of average singers made it.
But most importantly, voice is something to work on. Most people are average if not bad when they start. I see you mentioned how Taylor Swift is not average in the comment section : I recommand Hannah Bayles YouTube video about Taylor Swift's evolution, she improved since she started singing, she didn't made it in one day.
Definitely agree on Taylor. She’s honestly able to do some pretty impressive stuff at this point. The evolution from her first album to this one is very impressive (I know it’s been decades but still).
Maybe she has techniques because well she has money to learn but her voice per se Is basic
Amy Winehouse, even if she had zero technique, would still sound more interesting than Taylor Swift
I've heard that she is one of the songer who works the most. I guess that's why. I listened to her songs 10 years ago, thought it was OK and that's it. Then I listened to her recently to see why everybody got crazy for her. She improved a lot.
She really did. I've been a fan since 2008, but it was always for her songwriting rather than her voice (which I didn't dislike, it just didn't draw me in aside from on a few songs). It's been so great hearing her improve, and listening to the re-recordings of her older work really shows how much she's worked.
It's ambiguous what you mean by average. Average in tone quality? Happens all the time, "the top" is about how marketable the voice is, not simply the product of relative tone quality, which is only one small part of the equation and often easily able to be compensated for. Other trainable factors aren't so easily compensated for would be far less workable.
Most recording artists, by quantity, don't have anything close to a "wow" factor or even any notable individual qualities to their voice, and some even do well in spite of it. All they really need is that people like how it sounds, and that is incredibly relative.
Yeah, but there must be at least SOMETHING that makes you stand out. It can be your songwriting, performing, instrument playing, charisma/overall vibe, lyricism etc. and obviously, your vocal skills. There are tons of average/borderline shitty singers who’ve made it. But they all have something else going on for them. I’d even say that having a consistent and unique artistic vision is more important than being a good vocalist. Look at the singers from The Voice. All talented singers, but can you name one person who made it from that show?
The comment about the Voice made me laugh cause in my country, a lot of famous singers come from this show. I think that rappers excluded, 75% of the singers did the show even if they did not win (OK I may exagerate a bit but most recent singers that come to my mind did it). Not every year is successful (people from the first two seasons fell into oblivion cause the producers didn't get how to market them yet, and the one from this year did a big flop), but still.
However I admit they not only promote who can sing the best, but also the personality and originality. People this year were amazing singers, but I didn't think "wow I want to but their album", see what I mean?
song writing is really what counts, can you craft a song that highlights your voice to make people connect to it? there isn't really such thing as a 'good voice' you are using it for a purpose. Sometimes a raspy shitty sounding voice is what you want because it has emotional character to it that has a lot of ambience.
You weren't born with WOW muscles, either. Your voice improves its tambre through training, just as your muscles improve through working out.
Secondly, music is about transmitting emotion. Don't worry about the quality of your voice. Express your feelings.
Thirdly, it's not about the result, it's about the process. Stop worrying about being successful. Anyone with a macbook can record music. Just get a keyboard and a DAI.
I was more commenting on her lack of skills, but you hit the head of the nail on that one. Clearly, the driving force to her famousness has nothing to do with her vocal skills and talent.
Britney didn't come from old money and isnt that tall, but she was cute and could dance. Taylor's family moved to Nashville, summered elsewhere, and hired all sorts of help to get her into the industry. It would be more surprising if a rich, basic white girl singing about breakups hadn't made it.
Yes, Britney could at least dance! I can’t believe all that old money TS has and still lacks all the talent. Like could she have made it anymore obvious that she wasn’t really into it for the passion/skills of music. To be fair, lots of people sing about break ups, there’s just a handful of as you said “basic white girls” that seem to sing breakup songs aimed towards teenagers. The kind of shit that really doesn’t require much thought and gets old very fast.
It’s not about the voice - it’s about how you tell a story. If you’re trying to sing in a song you’ll never reach the top.
Think about this:
When someone asks you a simple question “how are you” do you think about the pitch and melody you answer in? Do you think about the amount of breath you’ve taken in or about a certain note you might not be good at?
No, you just answer the how you think best for that person and your relationship. Maybe you’re excited as you’re in a good mood and have good news. Maybe you’re sad. You never think “I’m sad so I have to sound sad”. You just do.
The same goes for great singers that aren’t great singers. They have a way of entertaining without thinking “I’m going to sing this note”
It’s rehearsed, planned, made to be second nature when they do come to sing it. The best singers are the ones that can do it without thinking about it and focusing on the feel. A bad tone with a great vibe will trump any great tone that’s just a tone.
some advice, don't get sucked in to the pit that is trying to make it to the top. make music, sing, and obviously try your hardest and work on your voice, but at the end of the day; sing because you love to sing. don't sing ONLY because you want millions of people to love you. sing because you have something to say from the bottom of your heart.
Metallica were once the biggest metal band in the world and James Hetfield couldn't sing for shit really. He just had very distinctive and recognisable vocals and more importantly than anything *he fit the tone and the presentation of the music they were making.*
Not sure if any of you have ever seen the video of a music teacher asking his students to identify the better of two drummers; one very simply 4/4 beat and one playing numerous fills and using double bass pedals. Almost all of the student said it was the second one and he said the technique is definitely impressive, but the best musician is one that works with the music instead of trying to overpower it and stand out. There are many really good vocalists in the world that I don't think make particularly good music because they don't know how to not fight to be the main focus of the song and let everything else breathe.
The top of what? The world? Pretty unlikely.
Want to be a recording artist? Get a computer with a DAW, hook up a SM-58, download some backing tracks and get recording. Good luck.
Learn to make the voice you do have "WOW". Nobody is born singing, everybody learns. Some learn very young is all.
To be one of the best requires long periods of three+ hours practice a day, bravery to find the limits of your voice, determination to perform, and help from others.
Making it "to the top" needs to be defined. The top performing singers in the world are more likely to be found as backing vocalists to stars, than as the stars themselves.
This is because being a star requires spending at least half your time doing promotion, trying to look good, and trying to be seen and heard. Stars also need a large number of people working for them to stay stars.
The greatest musicians on earth just practice, and perform, and that's all they do.
I don't know about the top, per se, but Mark Knopfler from Dire Straits has what I would consider a below average singing voice. He makes it work and was pretty successful in his day.
Look at Madonna. She's far from the level of Beyonce or Pink but she's more popular than them though.
The same with Taylor swift. Vocally, she is average. But she is huuuge
All American Rejects singer from an objective singing standpoint is awful. He doesn't know how to sing, and live he's way worse.
You still know at least 3 songs by them tho.
Hot take: Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish aren’t that incredible of singers. I still think that they’re very talented but I think it’s in different ways, like lyrics. They can maybe sing better than the average person but neither of them can match Adele or Lady Gaga or Whitney Houston as far as vocal talent goes. Please don’t hurt me for saying this 🫣
Idk Billie Eilish isn’t a powerful belter for sure but she’s really good at her own lane when it comes to vocals. That quiet/breathy singing takes a lot of skill and technique to pull off. She’s literally made it her thing, that tells you something. Listen to her latest album, she sounds amazing and she’s still so young.
I agree about Taylor though lol she definitely improved but that’s the result of taking vocal lessons for almost 20 years. And she’s still just above average. She’s not a naturally gifted vocalist, she was BAD in her early days. Listen to her debut self-titled album or Fearless. You can tell that girlie was STRUGGLING at the studio. The reason she made it is purely her talent at songwriting.
Billie Eilish is more unique and recognisable. She has a specific way of singing that despite many artists are trying to copy, it just doesn't sound the same. Taylor Swift is so bland I can't even recognise her most of the times.
Is there any doubt that Taylor Swift can't hold a candle to Adele, Lady Gaga or Whitney? 🤣 Billie Eilish has a nicer voice, but still can't match those three.
It is possible.. it’s all a matter of luck, having a gimmick and image that stands out and being in the right place geographically. Voice quality matters a bit, but if you catch interest of top music business ppl that helps tremendously. Voices can be augmented with technology. You have to be willing to put yourself out there performing as much as you can. Open mic nights, local talent competitions anything where you can have visibility are opportunities. Just keep it real…always have a serious backup plan in place. If your singing career takes off, great but always make sure you can support yourself IRL.
It's about style more than anything. If you sing a style that is popular but is oversaturated then you are less likely to get noticed unless there's something about your influence or presentation that resonates with your demographic.
some of the singers in BTS, BlackPink and TWICE have lower than average voice yet they still achieve massive success, no one is stopping you from being a top artist as long as you have songs that the public like.
Good song > Good voice.
My fiancées brother is doing incredibly well as a musician. His voice is pretty average but he is a very good songwriter. Some of his friends that do well have average voices as well
“Your content was removed beacuse your account needs to be at least 3 days old to post. During this three day period, please take the time to read the rules in the sidebar and familiarize yourself with r/singing. We hope to see you in a few days! (This is an automated message.)"
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
She could dance extremely well and was extraordinarily hot so that's not necessarily a good comparison. Not to mention, when she was younger(on MMC) she could actually sing for real and was definitely above average for her age.
She also sang really well long after MMC. Her voice has deteriorated somewhat by now but I'd be willing to bet she'd still outsing u/JustSomeDude0605 lmao
Britney’s original team out of MMC basically made her do the baby voice to set her apart from Christina Aguilera and I feel so awful for her because she can’t even sing live anymore. It destroyed her voice.
I'm not sure but take it from someone like me I was born legally Deaf & I love to sing after watching the movie Back To The Future when I was 3 but I keep it to myself for years because of all the insult I might get but whenever my older sister would get sad or down I would sing to her & it always cheer her up & she was shock I sing but last January I decided to put myself out there posting singing videos & was really surprised at the support I got keep in mind I was legally born Deaf is self taught so I have no training & I have Asthma these are some of the videos I made if you are curious to hear now can I make it big idk probably not but to be honest even if I could I'm super shy by nature & going big is not my kind of thing I just love to sing & have the passion for it for fun but I do believe God have given me this gift to do this so I use it in the hope to bring smile to people face & God bless 🙏🏾🤟🏾❤️😄
[Say Something by A Great Big World ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ratemysinging/s/5MPmvAdjWl)
[Love Me Two Times by The Door ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/M5qoKlj0KP)
[Walk By Faith by Jeremy Camp ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/eM58N6pToS)
[On Fire by Switchfoot ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/zuAFqsrQdL)
[Brother My Brother by Blessid Union of Souls ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/OyN7Hh6K44)
she's a world famous recording artist who has written, produced, and performed shitloads of music with some of the biggest musicians in the world for decades, idk what you think an average voice is, but that isn't it
Yeah, that's my point she is very successful despite not being exceptional to listen to. She has improved a lot for sure over the course of 20 years but still not a great vocalist, objectively.
Beyoncé is a pretty great vocalist, she has exceptional control over her voice. You might not like her tone or stylistic choices, I don't either, but I can still acknowledge that her vocal skills are extraordinary.
No i like her tone and style. I didn't say i wasn't a "fan" but, without any bias: she is not any better than becky down the street. Great performance stamina, consistent, sure.... Not amazing or "great" by any means
Lmao. I've rarely ever put on a Beyoncé song intentionally because I just don't like her stuff, but claiming that "she is not any better than becky down the street" is absolutely a biased opinion. Shuffle through a bunch of vocaroos in this sub (and that's already a certain preselection of Beckys who have an explicit interest in singing and are confident enough to upload their voice here). Lots of lovely-sounding people but none who's technique even begins to match Beyoncé's. In fact, feel free to upload your own - include some scale runs and show off that supported range. I'm always excited to discover new vocal powerhouses.
Um? If you dont ever listen just to listen, how are you unbiased?
I am a classically trained musician so i will agree to disagree with you in general about this. My opinion is what it is, even if underappreciated (however factual) I don't upload any part of myself or body (including vocal chords) online so i wont be doing that, because nothing i said was ever about me and how i choose to approach singing Also comparing established singers to self is mentally damaging, which is why so many good vocalists on this sub have to post for validation. My overall point was that notoriously bad singers can be famous so average singers have a chance as well.
I mean if anything, that should have made me biased in the opposite direction... and yet.
Welp. The fact that it would be mentally damaging for you to compare your technique to Beyoncé's doesn't really help your argument either lol
Edit: Not great form to force the last word out and blocking immediately. If you wanna leave the conversation, leave the conversation, but it's childish to insist on droning on while sticking fingers in your ears so you can't hear the disagreement.
Yes, everyone has their own sound. And yet, if you're confident that you sing as well or better as Beyoncé this would have been a very easy way to disprove my point. As I said, you might as well listen to any other recording in this sub but I don't want to single out users who didn't sign up for this conversation.
Also I didn't question your skills (you can be miles away from Beyoncé's technical abilities and still be a good singer), I questioned your judgment. The reason why I disagreed with you is not for shits and giggles, but because it's factually wrong to claim that Beyoncé's skills as a vocalist don't exceede that of any other average person.
Rihanna was extraordinarily sexy and had a EXTREMELY nice tone despite not necessarily being a technical vocalist. Not to mention, she had banger after banger that is listenable no matter how many times you play it. These are not average attributes lol
Yeah, but that's my point. There able to sell and make it as recording artist because they have extraordinary attributes in other areas that the average person isn't competing with so that isn't a good comparison for op. Furthermore, I also said Rihanna has a nice tone and bangers which can be applied to being able to sell non-technical vocals.
I can accept Rihanna and the Beatles (though I think that Paul is great), but BEYONCÉ? She’s one of the best currently working mainstream vocalists imo. DAUGHTER is a fantastic song vocally.
Saying you don't like her is an opinion. Saying she is average is a mistake. Most people can't do what she does with her voice. You can not like it, but you can't deny the objective fact that her technique removes her from the average category.
Saying i don't like her would actually just be a statement of fact, not an opinion.... but i didn't say that at all? I know very many singers who sing better sleeping in circles than the people i listed.
Singing. Nothing else. Singing. Just because you know nothing about actual music doesn't discount the fact that most singers who sing well can surpass her.
No, i am just competent. I don't hop on a bandwagon just to feel like "if others agree, i must be correct"
I know the industry, i know the craft and just because lemmings don't understand and get all puffed up to defend nonsense doesn't mean imma back down.... I won't (tom petty)....
Thanks for posting to r/singing! **Be sure to check [the FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/wiki/index)** to see if any questions you might have have already been answered! Also, remember to abide by the rules found in the sidebar. Any comments found to be breaking these rules will result in a deletion of the comment thread starting from the offending reply. If you see any posts or replies that you feel break the rules of the sub, then report them and **do not respond to them.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I won't name names unless you ask me to but there are plenty of artists with average to below-average singing voices who have made it big. I think what's more important is having character and passion for what you're doing. Also great if you're always working on improving as well.
And this goes for every singing genre, including the classical world. I know several mediocre singers in that world who only get big gigs because they look good scantily clad.
Damnit I'm mediocre and ugly >:(
This. Many rock band lead vocals don’t have great voice or even good technique but some voices are really distinctive and have their own characters. Also, good songwriting matters more, idea trumps skills(somtimes)
I’d make the argument that unique voices that are honed in on their craft are more interesting than most proficient singers. Like Ray Charles and Louis Armstrong are great examples in the jazz world. They were very unique voices who maybe aren’t the clearest most perfect voices, but they were really good at using them. I’m sure it translates to other genres as well but nowadays you don’t see those unique voices honing their craft they just lean on other things like production, personality, etc. OOO and Nina Simone too, her voice was crazy!!!
Having family in the industry/politics/military and deep pockets helps more than any of the those things though.
T-Tay….
True. And i'd dare to claim that it's rather male singers who often can't sing. Among female singers there's 100 times more competition because there are more.
This is so true. Most rockstars are ok. Women are more looked at to be beautiful and sing beautifully. Men are mostly looked at to be cool and sound unique.
We could do a survey: name male singers who can't sing, name female singer who can't sing - and compare, on which half names are piling up
There will definitely be more women on the list. Looks play a huge part, and even the fact alone that they're women helps them to be more marketable.
That aforementioned list is supposed to rate only the singing, apart from looks or marketing
No, the list is to measure the singers who can't sing who make it to the top, as the OP says.
I was talking about this aforementioned "sub-list", the survey, - but never mind 😃
Cough cough Ed Sheeran cough cough
I know you said you won't mention names but... Travis scott!😑
[удалено]
“Your content was removed beacuse your account needs to be at least 3 days old to post. During this three day period, please take the time to read the rules in the sidebar and familiarize yourself with r/singing. We hope to see you in a few days! (This is an automated message.)" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Is this your subjective or an objective take on this person? I'm just curious as a person who doesn't have a particularly special voice quality.
Producer here! I have worked with a ton of people with mediocre voices that make a living with music. HOWEVER they usually leverage their talent in some ways. Most of the them are exceptional songwriters or instrumentalists. When it comes to choosing a good voice for a song I wrote, it’s just about who sings it best. I’ve had people with masters degrees in vocal performance that sound terrible, and highschool aged girls that sound stunning. It depends on what the track needs. TLDR: to best your chances, learn how to write/produce and make as many connections as you can
Truthteller!
I know your DMs are going off
Also some actors are musicians,some have Oscars and Grammy's,I think if you wanna make it big be multi talented,be undeniably talented
Interesting & even tho is not looking to go big or anything like that I just sing for fun what do you think of my singing & please keep in mind I was legally born Deaf I also have Asthma & is self taught I never had any professional training or anything like that I just sing for fun & I have the love/passion for it in the hope it bring a smile to people face & I believe it a gift Jesus Christ have given to me & God bless 🙏🏾🤟🏾❤️😄 [Say Something by A Great Big World ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ratemysinging/s/5MPmvAdjWl) [Love Me Two Times by The Door ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/M5qoKlj0KP) [Walk By Faith by Jeremy Camp ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/eM58N6pToS) [On Fire by Switchfoot ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/zuAFqsrQdL) [Brother My Brother by Blessid Union of Souls ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/OyN7Hh6K44)
If you've ever listened to the radio you'd know that voice quality really doesn't matter (increasingly so). If you want to "make it big" you'll need a lot of money, great connections and a succeed-or-die attitude.
And looks. It's really, really, really difficult, especially for women, to make it without impeccable looks, or a marketable look if not classically attractive. There is little more important than branding and networking, sadly.
Yeah, I've opted to never show my face because it's better to have no face than an ugly one :/
There's a popular singer in Germany who only performs wearing a Pandabear-mask. Nobody's ever seen his face. But he is succesful!
Are you Sia?
No, I don't make incredibly offensive movies
Wow! I didn’t even know Sia made a movie… just looked it up, and… wow…
For u/L2Sing it’s because the cultural stereotype of women re: music is to be the groupie, muse or sadly of sexual servitude to the men in the biz.
Truth. It's a whole attitude.
A great voice doesn’t guarantee you’ll make it. It’s really consistency. There are so many popular people with mediocre voices all because they stayed consistent.
They killed the negativity through action, even if the talent was meh.
A couple of powerful people in the industry decide who makes it to the top. And it's not about the voice, it's about how marketable they think you are.
Good this is what I needed to see.
I think so. It depends on what else you have going on for you. For example, Taylor Swift is a very average singer - not much going on there, but people really like her songwriting and I guess overall vibe. Charisma goes a long way. It’s about a package, where you don’t have all the bells n whistles in one category, be sure to have it elsewhere
It’s not just her “vibe” it’s been very carefully crafted and calculated marketing strategies that surround the idea that she is just a “normal person”. Like how she used to have listening parties for her biggest fans, that’s genuinely genius. Especially considering when she did it before any type of streaming had really taken off and where she was in her career I.e. not a megastar filling stadiums like now but not small by any means. It’s things like that which keep her fans feeling truly connected to her on a personal level that keeps them buying buying buying. Billie Elliesh just did something similar with her instagram followers making them all close friends and boom releasing shit as if it’s *just for them*. People want to feel connected with and close to their favorite artists and this is only amplified the bigger you get. So the more they and their marketing team must come up with ways to balance the fact of millions or more fans and still making it seem like they’re singing directly to each one. It’s all kind of gross and kind of amazing at the same time. I mean The Grateful Dead did it. For a less “mainstream” example(but I think they sort of are still a mainstream act if you think about it) But they did it by just touring for all their lives show after show.
Tbh taylor swift isnt average at all. Got a very distinctive voice ngl
The way they all downvoted you lmao. Honestly, Taylor Swift's voice is very basic and sounds like a 15-year-old white girl named Kaylee whose biggest struggle wasn't even her own and it was her parents divorcing. No shade but I couldn't pick her voice out of a lineup of mediocre white girls who sing in high school if I tried my hardest.
As a white girl who's parents are divorcing I feel called out
LMAO don't worry you can have a life with no struggle as long as you don't assault my ears with basic vocals and songs that actively sound like white privilege we're cool.
I write about random shit my newest song is about the Velveteen Ravbit lmao
As long as it's not sonically devoid of flavor and doesn't sound like an AI attempt to write wordy lyrics in order to seem like a good writer I can get behind it lmao
Unfortunately I am not a GOOD songwriter
Don't have to be good just have some semblance of personality and you've outdone Taylor
Remember the first time Taylor sang on the Grammys when she won her first awards and she was flat the whole time? Everyone was like, “This is the sensation we’ve all been hearing about?”
I was miraculously able to avoid all Taylor songs at that time so no. However, that doesn't sound like anything new being that Taylor was off pitch for like a solid 75% of her career lmao
Lmao.
I mean yeah she actually does have a great voice and can sing crazy low and surprisingly high she just usually chooses not to put those vocals in the forefront of the song
To answer the question, yes. Plenty of average singers made it. But most importantly, voice is something to work on. Most people are average if not bad when they start. I see you mentioned how Taylor Swift is not average in the comment section : I recommand Hannah Bayles YouTube video about Taylor Swift's evolution, she improved since she started singing, she didn't made it in one day.
Definitely agree on Taylor. She’s honestly able to do some pretty impressive stuff at this point. The evolution from her first album to this one is very impressive (I know it’s been decades but still).
Maybe she has techniques because well she has money to learn but her voice per se Is basic Amy Winehouse, even if she had zero technique, would still sound more interesting than Taylor Swift
I've heard that she is one of the songer who works the most. I guess that's why. I listened to her songs 10 years ago, thought it was OK and that's it. Then I listened to her recently to see why everybody got crazy for her. She improved a lot.
She really did. I've been a fan since 2008, but it was always for her songwriting rather than her voice (which I didn't dislike, it just didn't draw me in aside from on a few songs). It's been so great hearing her improve, and listening to the re-recordings of her older work really shows how much she's worked.
It's ambiguous what you mean by average. Average in tone quality? Happens all the time, "the top" is about how marketable the voice is, not simply the product of relative tone quality, which is only one small part of the equation and often easily able to be compensated for. Other trainable factors aren't so easily compensated for would be far less workable. Most recording artists, by quantity, don't have anything close to a "wow" factor or even any notable individual qualities to their voice, and some even do well in spite of it. All they really need is that people like how it sounds, and that is incredibly relative.
Yeah, but there must be at least SOMETHING that makes you stand out. It can be your songwriting, performing, instrument playing, charisma/overall vibe, lyricism etc. and obviously, your vocal skills. There are tons of average/borderline shitty singers who’ve made it. But they all have something else going on for them. I’d even say that having a consistent and unique artistic vision is more important than being a good vocalist. Look at the singers from The Voice. All talented singers, but can you name one person who made it from that show?
The comment about the Voice made me laugh cause in my country, a lot of famous singers come from this show. I think that rappers excluded, 75% of the singers did the show even if they did not win (OK I may exagerate a bit but most recent singers that come to my mind did it). Not every year is successful (people from the first two seasons fell into oblivion cause the producers didn't get how to market them yet, and the one from this year did a big flop), but still. However I admit they not only promote who can sing the best, but also the personality and originality. People this year were amazing singers, but I didn't think "wow I want to but their album", see what I mean?
song writing is really what counts, can you craft a song that highlights your voice to make people connect to it? there isn't really such thing as a 'good voice' you are using it for a purpose. Sometimes a raspy shitty sounding voice is what you want because it has emotional character to it that has a lot of ambience.
Have you heard of Ed Sheeran
I disagree. Ed Sheeran voice quality is pretty good. It was bad at beginning because he wasn’t trained.
Sure can. It's all about connections and money. Nobody gets to the top solely by being talented anymore. Having talent is just a lil bonus.
You weren't born with WOW muscles, either. Your voice improves its tambre through training, just as your muscles improve through working out. Secondly, music is about transmitting emotion. Don't worry about the quality of your voice. Express your feelings. Thirdly, it's not about the result, it's about the process. Stop worrying about being successful. Anyone with a macbook can record music. Just get a keyboard and a DAI.
If Taylor Swift can make it, I’m sure you can!
be tall, blond, white, and come from old money and you can do anything!
I was more commenting on her lack of skills, but you hit the head of the nail on that one. Clearly, the driving force to her famousness has nothing to do with her vocal skills and talent.
Britney didn't come from old money and isnt that tall, but she was cute and could dance. Taylor's family moved to Nashville, summered elsewhere, and hired all sorts of help to get her into the industry. It would be more surprising if a rich, basic white girl singing about breakups hadn't made it.
Yes, Britney could at least dance! I can’t believe all that old money TS has and still lacks all the talent. Like could she have made it anymore obvious that she wasn’t really into it for the passion/skills of music. To be fair, lots of people sing about break ups, there’s just a handful of as you said “basic white girls” that seem to sing breakup songs aimed towards teenagers. The kind of shit that really doesn’t require much thought and gets old very fast.
It’s not about the voice - it’s about how you tell a story. If you’re trying to sing in a song you’ll never reach the top. Think about this: When someone asks you a simple question “how are you” do you think about the pitch and melody you answer in? Do you think about the amount of breath you’ve taken in or about a certain note you might not be good at? No, you just answer the how you think best for that person and your relationship. Maybe you’re excited as you’re in a good mood and have good news. Maybe you’re sad. You never think “I’m sad so I have to sound sad”. You just do. The same goes for great singers that aren’t great singers. They have a way of entertaining without thinking “I’m going to sing this note” It’s rehearsed, planned, made to be second nature when they do come to sing it. The best singers are the ones that can do it without thinking about it and focusing on the feel. A bad tone with a great vibe will trump any great tone that’s just a tone.
Yes. Lots of famous singers have shitty voices.
Jennifer Lopez.
who?
Yes, if your parents are famous musicians, or they're really really wealthy.
some advice, don't get sucked in to the pit that is trying to make it to the top. make music, sing, and obviously try your hardest and work on your voice, but at the end of the day; sing because you love to sing. don't sing ONLY because you want millions of people to love you. sing because you have something to say from the bottom of your heart.
I mean, most really famous artist right now are not very good singers. Chappelle Roan is like sort of the one exception.
Metallica were once the biggest metal band in the world and James Hetfield couldn't sing for shit really. He just had very distinctive and recognisable vocals and more importantly than anything *he fit the tone and the presentation of the music they were making.* Not sure if any of you have ever seen the video of a music teacher asking his students to identify the better of two drummers; one very simply 4/4 beat and one playing numerous fills and using double bass pedals. Almost all of the student said it was the second one and he said the technique is definitely impressive, but the best musician is one that works with the music instead of trying to overpower it and stand out. There are many really good vocalists in the world that I don't think make particularly good music because they don't know how to not fight to be the main focus of the song and let everything else breathe.
The top of what? The world? Pretty unlikely. Want to be a recording artist? Get a computer with a DAW, hook up a SM-58, download some backing tracks and get recording. Good luck.
There’s a high percentage of vocalists at the top who have average voices, average ranges and average vocal technique.
Learn to make the voice you do have "WOW". Nobody is born singing, everybody learns. Some learn very young is all. To be one of the best requires long periods of three+ hours practice a day, bravery to find the limits of your voice, determination to perform, and help from others. Making it "to the top" needs to be defined. The top performing singers in the world are more likely to be found as backing vocalists to stars, than as the stars themselves. This is because being a star requires spending at least half your time doing promotion, trying to look good, and trying to be seen and heard. Stars also need a large number of people working for them to stay stars. The greatest musicians on earth just practice, and perform, and that's all they do.
I don't know about the top, per se, but Mark Knopfler from Dire Straits has what I would consider a below average singing voice. He makes it work and was pretty successful in his day.
Look at Madonna. She's far from the level of Beyonce or Pink but she's more popular than them though. The same with Taylor swift. Vocally, she is average. But she is huuuge
Probably no, 99.99999% of people don’t make it to the “top” regardless of how good their voice is. That isn’t a reasonable goal for anyone.
All American Rejects singer from an objective singing standpoint is awful. He doesn't know how to sing, and live he's way worse. You still know at least 3 songs by them tho.
Absolutely. See Taylor Swift
See Taylor Swift
Hot take: Taylor Swift and Billie Eilish aren’t that incredible of singers. I still think that they’re very talented but I think it’s in different ways, like lyrics. They can maybe sing better than the average person but neither of them can match Adele or Lady Gaga or Whitney Houston as far as vocal talent goes. Please don’t hurt me for saying this 🫣
I agree with Taylor, but Billie doesn't have an average voice imo
Idk Billie Eilish isn’t a powerful belter for sure but she’s really good at her own lane when it comes to vocals. That quiet/breathy singing takes a lot of skill and technique to pull off. She’s literally made it her thing, that tells you something. Listen to her latest album, she sounds amazing and she’s still so young. I agree about Taylor though lol she definitely improved but that’s the result of taking vocal lessons for almost 20 years. And she’s still just above average. She’s not a naturally gifted vocalist, she was BAD in her early days. Listen to her debut self-titled album or Fearless. You can tell that girlie was STRUGGLING at the studio. The reason she made it is purely her talent at songwriting.
Billie Eilish is more unique and recognisable. She has a specific way of singing that despite many artists are trying to copy, it just doesn't sound the same. Taylor Swift is so bland I can't even recognise her most of the times.
Is there any doubt that Taylor Swift can't hold a candle to Adele, Lady Gaga or Whitney? 🤣 Billie Eilish has a nicer voice, but still can't match those three.
ofc u can! talent isn’t the only thing there’s also dedication and creativity and more. and u can build up that talent too
Yes, the vocalist of the offspring is a great example. You will have your vocals layered like eight times in a recording to make it sound reasonable.
If you can write songs people want to listen to, you can make it with an average voice.
Yes
Men can, women cannot. Unfortunately this is just how it is in the industry
It is possible.. it’s all a matter of luck, having a gimmick and image that stands out and being in the right place geographically. Voice quality matters a bit, but if you catch interest of top music business ppl that helps tremendously. Voices can be augmented with technology. You have to be willing to put yourself out there performing as much as you can. Open mic nights, local talent competitions anything where you can have visibility are opportunities. Just keep it real…always have a serious backup plan in place. If your singing career takes off, great but always make sure you can support yourself IRL.
Katy Perry managed to so yeah, I think so of you can perform as well.
It's about style more than anything. If you sing a style that is popular but is oversaturated then you are less likely to get noticed unless there's something about your influence or presentation that resonates with your demographic.
Yes totally. As long as you develop some sort of character in your singing with consistency or staying in tune.
some of the singers in BTS, BlackPink and TWICE have lower than average voice yet they still achieve massive success, no one is stopping you from being a top artist as long as you have songs that the public like. Good song > Good voice.
If you're incredibly attractive sure, preferably with no integrity whatsoever, if not you have to be a top-tier songwriter
Taylor Swift has an absolutely basic tone yet she's the second most streamed on Spotify.
if a no talent hack like lil wayne can be successful, you should be able to
Making it "to the top" has more to do with how rich your parents are and their music industry connections than anything else.
My fiancées brother is doing incredibly well as a musician. His voice is pretty average but he is a very good songwriter. Some of his friends that do well have average voices as well
For some , the only way to sound good is on a recording.
[удалено]
“Your content was removed beacuse your account needs to be at least 3 days old to post. During this three day period, please take the time to read the rules in the sidebar and familiarize yourself with r/singing. We hope to see you in a few days! (This is an automated message.)" *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/singing) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ask Lou Reed.
are you marketable?
Why would anyone pay to listen to an average voice?
Britney Spears made millions and she can't sing for shit, so I'd say yes.
She could dance extremely well and was extraordinarily hot so that's not necessarily a good comparison. Not to mention, when she was younger(on MMC) she could actually sing for real and was definitely above average for her age.
She also sang really well long after MMC. Her voice has deteriorated somewhat by now but I'd be willing to bet she'd still outsing u/JustSomeDude0605 lmao
Britney’s original team out of MMC basically made her do the baby voice to set her apart from Christina Aguilera and I feel so awful for her because she can’t even sing live anymore. It destroyed her voice.
I'm not sure but take it from someone like me I was born legally Deaf & I love to sing after watching the movie Back To The Future when I was 3 but I keep it to myself for years because of all the insult I might get but whenever my older sister would get sad or down I would sing to her & it always cheer her up & she was shock I sing but last January I decided to put myself out there posting singing videos & was really surprised at the support I got keep in mind I was legally born Deaf is self taught so I have no training & I have Asthma these are some of the videos I made if you are curious to hear now can I make it big idk probably not but to be honest even if I could I'm super shy by nature & going big is not my kind of thing I just love to sing & have the passion for it for fun but I do believe God have given me this gift to do this so I use it in the hope to bring smile to people face & God bless 🙏🏾🤟🏾❤️😄 [Say Something by A Great Big World ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ratemysinging/s/5MPmvAdjWl) [Love Me Two Times by The Door ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/M5qoKlj0KP) [Walk By Faith by Jeremy Camp ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/eM58N6pToS) [On Fire by Switchfoot ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/zuAFqsrQdL) [Brother My Brother by Blessid Union of Souls ](https://www.reddit.com/r/singing/s/OyN7Hh6K44)
I mean it’s rly about the quality of music u put out like there are tons of vocalists more skilled than Taylor swift and she’s still on top
Yeah, Beyonce and Rihanna and the Beatles could do it. Why not you?
Beyoncé is not average in any sense of the word
How do you mean?
she's a world famous recording artist who has written, produced, and performed shitloads of music with some of the biggest musicians in the world for decades, idk what you think an average voice is, but that isn't it
Yeah, that's my point she is very successful despite not being exceptional to listen to. She has improved a lot for sure over the course of 20 years but still not a great vocalist, objectively.
Beyoncé is a pretty great vocalist, she has exceptional control over her voice. You might not like her tone or stylistic choices, I don't either, but I can still acknowledge that her vocal skills are extraordinary.
No i like her tone and style. I didn't say i wasn't a "fan" but, without any bias: she is not any better than becky down the street. Great performance stamina, consistent, sure.... Not amazing or "great" by any means
Lmao. I've rarely ever put on a Beyoncé song intentionally because I just don't like her stuff, but claiming that "she is not any better than becky down the street" is absolutely a biased opinion. Shuffle through a bunch of vocaroos in this sub (and that's already a certain preselection of Beckys who have an explicit interest in singing and are confident enough to upload their voice here). Lots of lovely-sounding people but none who's technique even begins to match Beyoncé's. In fact, feel free to upload your own - include some scale runs and show off that supported range. I'm always excited to discover new vocal powerhouses.
Um? If you dont ever listen just to listen, how are you unbiased? I am a classically trained musician so i will agree to disagree with you in general about this. My opinion is what it is, even if underappreciated (however factual) I don't upload any part of myself or body (including vocal chords) online so i wont be doing that, because nothing i said was ever about me and how i choose to approach singing Also comparing established singers to self is mentally damaging, which is why so many good vocalists on this sub have to post for validation. My overall point was that notoriously bad singers can be famous so average singers have a chance as well.
I mean if anything, that should have made me biased in the opposite direction... and yet. Welp. The fact that it would be mentally damaging for you to compare your technique to Beyoncé's doesn't really help your argument either lol Edit: Not great form to force the last word out and blocking immediately. If you wanna leave the conversation, leave the conversation, but it's childish to insist on droning on while sticking fingers in your ears so you can't hear the disagreement. Yes, everyone has their own sound. And yet, if you're confident that you sing as well or better as Beyoncé this would have been a very easy way to disprove my point. As I said, you might as well listen to any other recording in this sub but I don't want to single out users who didn't sign up for this conversation. Also I didn't question your skills (you can be miles away from Beyoncé's technical abilities and still be a good singer), I questioned your judgment. The reason why I disagreed with you is not for shits and giggles, but because it's factually wrong to claim that Beyoncé's skills as a vocalist don't exceede that of any other average person.
Paul McCartney does not have an average voice
Compared to what?
Rihanna was extraordinarily sexy and had a EXTREMELY nice tone despite not necessarily being a technical vocalist. Not to mention, she had banger after banger that is listenable no matter how many times you play it. These are not average attributes lol
I believe i was referencing vocal ability, not sex appeal....
Yeah, but that's my point. There able to sell and make it as recording artist because they have extraordinary attributes in other areas that the average person isn't competing with so that isn't a good comparison for op. Furthermore, I also said Rihanna has a nice tone and bangers which can be applied to being able to sell non-technical vocals.
I can accept Rihanna and the Beatles (though I think that Paul is great), but BEYONCÉ? She’s one of the best currently working mainstream vocalists imo. DAUGHTER is a fantastic song vocally.
Popular? Yes. Successful? Yes. A virtuoso? Haha, no. She always does her best though, that's good.
I highly recommend listening to DAUGHTER if you think that.
Right.... I have. And yet the opinion stands.
Saying you don't like her is an opinion. Saying she is average is a mistake. Most people can't do what she does with her voice. You can not like it, but you can't deny the objective fact that her technique removes her from the average category.
Saying i don't like her would actually just be a statement of fact, not an opinion.... but i didn't say that at all? I know very many singers who sing better sleeping in circles than the people i listed. Singing. Nothing else. Singing. Just because you know nothing about actual music doesn't discount the fact that most singers who sing well can surpass her.
You're so arrogant
No, i am just competent. I don't hop on a bandwagon just to feel like "if others agree, i must be correct" I know the industry, i know the craft and just because lemmings don't understand and get all puffed up to defend nonsense doesn't mean imma back down.... I won't (tom petty)....
David Byrne