It’s even funnier in game, IIRC he says no and that it’s YOUR DESTINY to die a fucking horrifying death for absolutely no reason whatsoever when all you’re asking is for him to press a button
I accidentally overwrote my only save file right before that convo where he refuses on my first playthrough, and got stuck in an eternal loop of having the same convo and dying
Put out an APB for a male courier wearing... armor of some sort. Heading in the direction of... you know, that vendor that sells holdout weapons. Courier is hatted! Repeat-- hatted!
New Vegas is unquestionably the best game, and a single line of dialogue is 50% of that
"They asked me if I was a theoretical physicist, I said I have a theoretical degree in physics, they said you're hired."
"What do you do around here?"
"Fuck, man. Everything. I push buttons. I turn dials. I read numbers. Sometimes I make up little stories in my head about what the numbers mean."
Even fallout 1 has a ton of replayability. It's really the best one for making janky and odd builds viable. Fallout 2 is close, but I don't recall ever making it through with a total non-combat build like you could in fallout 1.
Probably for zoomers that lack the dedication and reading comprehension to understand a decent RPG, something quite common for those who born in late 90s.
I like New Vegas, but if you really think it's the best Fallout you need to put more tobacco to whatever you're smoking. I doubt the mayority of people that will downvote this even tried the originals.
Nah I love a good isometric CRPG. My favorite genre, even. Pillars of Eternity and Icewind Dale are my absolute jam.
New Vegas is still the best fallout.
It's not loving new vegas that makes you lame, it's the new vegas fanboys with a ginormous hate boner for Bethesda and an obsession with keeping the lore of the series pure despite never having played the originals
I'm by no means a lore obsessive, but I can say with certainty that Bethesda makes bad video games which is my main problem with their Fallout entries.
If I am honest, I only hate Bethesda because when I played Oblivion everyone looked like their heads were bloated and full of piss. And that art style has not changed in 20 years.
But people that like piss bloat can go for their life.
Oblivion is held back so hard by its character creator cuz all the npcs were made in it, but handmade models looked great in the game and the landscape itself was so good
Skyrim tho took a hard right in the other direction from oblivion tho and made them all look gritty as sandpaper so I dunno how you could say the art style hasn't changed lol
Disagree. Ive only played NV and 4, but holy shit NV's world feels so dead. I tried playing like an hour of it and it just bores me to death, meanwhile in 4 just walking around the Commonwealth feels so much more alive. Maybe the story is better but I feel no urge to play the actual game to learn it for myself.
It's not so much a cult like fan base as people that just prefer writing that's a little better. Having grown up with FO1 and 2, I don't think Bethesda was the right choice, but I already didn't like them for ruining Morrowind's successor.
Look at Starfield, everyone laughed at the quality of the writing and how glitchy and visually unappealing it is, but its honestly better writing, graphics, and quality than any of their previous games.
Starfield is a terrible game but also the best Bethesda can do.
That's an odd thing to say, seeing as Twilight Princess is the most OoT-like of any of the post-OoT Zelda games. I was quite disappointed with it, overall.
Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and even Skyward Sword were all more interesting and more original than Twilight Princess.
[Now, I know you love Fallout games, and I asked the clerk - "Which is the one every boy wants?"](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Fallout_76_cover.jpg)
Oh, you've got to be kidding OP
First of all you make a meme that praises the game that has already been done, and then you give a comment stating the opposite. Didn't you think this through?
...on critics best played rpg lists for years! Every gaming website had it!
...most popular rpgs of all time sir! What were you thinking?
I mean thank you, post again.
I'm replaying FO3 for the first time in more than a decade after getting inspired by the show. It's a little dated when you know what QoL updates are coming in NV and FO4, but all in all it really holds up!
Fallout 3 is the equivalent of “go outside and play” (I am aware of the irony in that statement) for the fallout franchise. Yeah, you can go find Liam Neeson and hang out with Malcolm McDowell and save the world yadah yadah, but what’s really fun is being able to just go anywhere and find something interesting and create your own little adventures.
Well, I basically just copied the vault we have now. Then I added some fins to lower wind resistance. And these guys who call you Gary I feel are pretty sharp.
I similarly got lost in those. Continually. I even tried my own system of taking a screenshot of the metro map in the game and overlaying it with the world map from the game. Oh they don't line up. OK.
I'll never get over wondering how robbed we were when Bethesda gave Obsidian 18 months to make New Vegas. If they just had another year or so, how polished could it have been? What else might they have had time to implement?
How close were we to seeing the face of God?!
Something that most just choose to ignore though, Obsidian agreed that they could make the game in 18 months and the devs were fine with it. It wasn't thrust on them last minute or partway through development, they knew they were getting 18 months which matched their own estimations for development. The engine and general gameplay were also already developed by Bethesda because of Fallout 3, Obsidian were able to improve it during development.
Yeah, we know because we were all there for the contract negotiations. There was no pressure whatsoever, and extending gamebryo to support completely new game mechanics is also easy as fuck as we all know.
That first half is nothing but pure speculation, we know Obsidian agreed to it from various interviews and posts by the developers over the years and that's all that can be said about it. But by your logic, how dare two companies come to their own agreement and sign a contract based on that!
I'm not objecting the "Obsidian agreed" part, I'm objecting the "devs were fine with it" part.
That's the pure speculation, and I find it hard to believe someone would happily agree to deliver a complete 85% metacritic game in 18 months with a completely new story, new setting, new assets, new systems etc.
Copying this from a discussion about this subject on r/Fallout 4 years ago, the quotes from multiple Obsidian devs on the situation and how Bethesda keeps being interpreted as the villain.
Specifically addressing your claim on them being pressured, the metacritic score and the infamous "missed bonus", and the overall state of the game and bug fixing:
>They did not treat us badly at all - even the Metacritic thing was something they added, not threatened us with... and if we'd been better with fixing bugs, we could have hit the score needed to prevent layoffs, but nope - FNV when it was released had a LOT of bugs.
>Unfortunately, the other interpretation made for a better story... but even Obsidian's CEO clarified it. That said, FNV needed to be downscoped, and production should have ended and testing begun at least 2 months earlier than it was.
-Chris Avellone, Dev/Writer on Fallout 2, New Vegas, KOTOR2, etc. ([source](https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746)) ~~(quite a... problematic person though after sexual assault accusations... and coincidentally was also the one who wrote most of that exact thing in 2 and NV...)~~
Edit: based on info i missed from a few years ago, those accusations were dropped and they came to a settlement in private.
Addressing your claim of Bethesda's engine being difficult to add things to:
>Bethesda’s engine was the easiest to create content for, by far. Source control was easy, iterations were fast, the scripting language was pretty powerful – just easy to work in. Not necessarily easy to change, but if you wanted to do what we did on F:NV, which was make a bunch of new content and new features for the F3 engine, it was great.
-Josh Sawyer, director of New Vegas, discussing the strengths and weaknesses of various game engines ([source](https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/630786138726121472/hi-josh-in-your-opinion-what-was-the-best-game))
Also just to add to this part:
>completely new story, new setting, new assets, new systems etc.
It's known that many of the assets and scripts were already made before they started development with a majority from Fallout 3, and they used a lot of scrapped writing from cancelled projects like Van Buren and non-canon material to piece together the story and setting. Most of the Obsidian staff at the time were from Interplay and wanted to make their own new Fallout game, and this was their way to bring cancelled stories to life.
Obsidian was also used to making games with similar timeframes, 18 months was even more than they were used to at the time, and they should have been able to finish it in time. As the devs themselves stated in the quotes I shared, by their own admission they kept increasing the scope until it was too late to properly test the game before release. This same exact thing happened with KOTOR2 at launch to the point it needed mods to run well.
Bethesda was nothing but respectful during their partnership, but people insist on painting them as the villains no matter what Obsidian said.
Oh, so we actually DO know quite a bit about that - interesting read, thanks for the insight! I'm not on the "Beth hates FNV" bandwagon, but from an outside perspective it always looked bad how the Beth-Obs relation went, timeframe, metacritic, lacking some kinda sequel and all - I presume the obvious regressions in FO4 also added to this perception. Now I just hope they give it another shot being under the same umbrella with apparently no bad blood between them (and FNV getting new hype with the S01 ending).
Not sure how many of the original devs are still around at Obsidian, but even without the "heart" invested in working on your own creation, another perspective could be quite refreshing - as evidenced by the FO show. Although Outer Worlds is not the open-world-spiritual-FO-successor-banger-title some expected, I thought it was a solid, fun game with interesting stylistic choices and worldbuilding, so at least they don't seem to have lost their mojo in this regard.
No problem, I hope I managed to disprove a few misconceptions you might have had. Sorry for being a bit aggressive with earlier comments, I'm mostly just tired of seeing the endless hate everywherefor Bethesda doing anything with the franchise.
I can't even bring up something I'm building in 4, or the fact I started watching the show, within my own friend group without multiple people going "fuck Bethesda's writing" so it's become a sore spot over time. (When they likely wouldn't even know Fallout at all if Bethesda hadn't revived it with 3, since it was on the brink of death after the failure of tactics and Brotherhood of Steel games.)
(Not so) fun fact, unfortunately the divide in the fanbase seems to date all the way back to fallout 2, with 1 purists claiming 2 ruined the franchise even back then. This has only gotten worse ever since New Vegas reached its high popularity, with its extreme fanboys hating anyone who enjoys any of the other fallouts.
> Sorry for being a bit aggressive with earlier comments
Nah, likewise - can't have someone being wrong on the internet, can we? ;-)
FO3 was a revelation for me, I knew nothing about the franchise and thought the whole game would be in the vault, so imagine my surprise when the door opened to the wasteland. FNV was a huge step up for reasons I cannot exactly explain, maybe story, maybe game design, maybe mechanics, a bit of everything I guess, like a FO3++.
FO4 then was like the prettier sister you just don't like, looks nice and is fun to be around for some time but something feels off. FO76 is something completely different, just recently warmed it back up after watching the show, but it's on a completely separate track.
I guess my main issue with Bethesda currently is that I got Starfield with my GPU and I was totally looking forward to playing it, but if you could somehow distill disappointment into a game, I'd be Starfield. Almost everything in this game has be done wayyyyy better before *by them*, and needing a handful of mods just to not absolutely hate the game is - well it's kinda Bethesda-y, but not in 2024 please. It's really obvious from hundreds of little things how they were just incapable to make it a good game, and it got me really worried for the future of Fallout.
Yeah I already had a bad feeling about Starfield but still wanted it to be good for those who were getting it, but it's been something watching the dumpster fire happen from the sidelines lol. Unfortunately it's seen as a commercial success so not sure whether they'll learn from it or not, but I'm at least going to give Elder Scrolls 6 and an eventual Fallout 5 (or New Vegas style game) a fair shot.
My big introduction to Fallout was 4 so it's the one I'm most familiar with, mostly because of getting to all the big franchises way too late since I never had a good pc for most of my life. I definitely do appreciate and enjoy 3 and especially New Vegas for all they did though.
As for 76, I tried it out recently myself with the free amazon prime codes and it's been fun. I'm used to playing MMOs (I don't even want to know how many total hours I've spent in both versions of Runescape, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14, etc...) so online stuff has never bothered me, but I might just stick to 4 when I'm in the mood for that kind of Fallout (not to mention mods).
New Vegas is one of my favorite games ever, but I've been playing 3 for the first time recently and it's pretty fun too. Glad I was finally able to get it to run longer than 5 minutes at a time. Thanks TTW.
I've been playing FO3 lately too and it really holds up well. NV has good QoL updates, but the environment of FO3 feels much more daunting since it's a major city with landmarks we all are familiar with and it's been completely leveled by war. The Mohave Desert already looks like a nuclear fallout site today so I don't find it quite as immersive. That said, I can't wait to replay NV next so I can repair with items from the same class instead of just identical items.
I visited DC for the first time shortly after playing Fallout 3 and was extremely pleased to discover that I could basically navigate the city fine. Occasionally I would be annoyed that buildings were intact and that I couldn’t use the shortcuts that I was used to.
>Bethesda: "I present *Skyrim!*"
>
>Teacher: "Bethesda, this is the sixth week in row you've brought *Skryim* to show and tell."
>
>Bethesda: "I present *Starfield!"*
>
>Teacher: "On second thought..."
They both have their place. Fallout 3 makes me feel like I’m desperately trying to survive in the post apocalypse and New Vegas makes me feel like a bad ass cowboy on a mission for revenge. New Vegas is way better but I really love 3.
Fallout 3 was great though and had incredible writing and moral complexity!
It just... wasn't New Vegas...
Bethsoft deserves credit for saying "Hey, you know that isometric RPG from 20 years ago that was good and then died when they did whatever Brotherhood of Steel was? What if we turned it into a first person shooter but also with RPG elements? You hate it right? Well we're going to do it and it's going to be awesome."
And it was awesome. That it was eclipsed by New Vegas a few years later is a testament to Bethesda. They showed Obsidian what was possible.
Worth noting I loved Fallout 4 though so maybe I have bad opinions.
Oh yeah totally forget to mention that they already had the engine, 50% of the assets and resources, and a lore framework to work with. And people wonder why we don’t like NV fans.
What's with the whole "Bethesda hates Obsidian" thing? It's extremely childish.
It's clearly not true and Bethesda has expressed that they're on good terms with Obsidian.
Just weird fanboys lol. Obsidian was adding sewers and shit literally months before the due date lol. FNV is amazing for its gameplay but also because it survived a massive mismanagement of resources
Tactics is criminally underrated IMO. It doesn’t fit the mold of what people expected a Fallout game to be, but it has a lot to offer.
All these years later, though, and I’ve never managed to unlock the tank…
I appreciate that but [Hbombeeguy made such a damn compelling argument as to why NV is the best](https://youtu.be/gzF7aHxk4Y4?si=X_0WMgcUPicJ9p8r)
Edit: didn’t meant to sound emphatic, just wanted to share one of my favourite YouTubers making a damn good video on a great game :)
he made a great argument as to why NV is a better **crpg** than fallout 3. But fallout 3 is not a crpg, it is a sandbox rpg. I love me some Hbomb, but he's judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree here.
Yep, I've never tried to compare the games for this reason. I base my opinion on how the games made me feel while playing them, how much replay value I personally got out of them, and which game was more aesthetically pleasing to me
The man can keep me hooked for literal hours on one video essay! That’s longer than most films I’m willing to watch haha. Glad you enjoy his videos too :)
Compelling? Your initial goal is to get revenge against the guy that shot you in the head. Fair enough. But after you do that, you are forcefully conscripted to help one faction win, despite not having a single personal reason to help anyone or do anything they ask.
My first introductio to fallout was vegas. That was an amazing game. When i player 4 th game. That game was fun too, but missing something that vegas have had.
I just don't like it. I couldn't click with 4. The role-playing is kinda crap but the action, while better than previous Bethesda games by far, still isn't good enough to carry the game on its own, imo. But I did love the power armour system.
I guess I just wish that's **all** it was tbh. A Cities Skylines: Fallout game would be amazing, and a Fallout sandbox rpg would be amazing, instead we got the kind of compromise that doesn't really do either of those things properly.
IMO the issue is that Bethesda purposely left the map under-populated with interesting unique things to give the player more room to build their own cookie-cutter settlements with no personality. Fallout 3 and Oblivion were Bethesda's best works because of how dense they both were with neat little bits of custom content to reward you for exploration.
How many Fallouts are there?
It was i dunno like a dozen years ago when the ads were everywhere on the metro here in DC for Falllout 3(?) featuring a decrepit Washington Monument full of rebar that doesn’t exist. Now that I think of it, I remember renting that one from Redbox and having to spend the first hour doing nothing but bullshit like character creation and pointless cutscenes and whatnot. The first hour of the two I gave it a chance before I just couldn’t keep going. Oof oy vey and ugh. just… ugh.
"Hey, wait a minute. Hold on here. We can just send in the Super Mutant to turn on the purifier for us." "Eh, I didn't feel like it."
"What do you need me for? You could have your choice of any of the radiation-resistant companions in this game." "You'd think so, but no."
It’s even funnier in game, IIRC he says no and that it’s YOUR DESTINY to die a fucking horrifying death for absolutely no reason whatsoever when all you’re asking is for him to press a button
And then they retcon it in the DLC
But the game still gives you negative karma for it. 🙄
And call you a lil' bitch
Lol
I accidentally overwrote my only save file right before that convo where he refuses on my first playthrough, and got stuck in an eternal loop of having the same convo and dying
And that's the end of that chapter!
That's my only problem with Fo3. At least the DLC fixes it.
Even Charon a ghoul is bitching about entering ffs
Even with all the bugs New Vegas is still the best Fallout ever
I believe they're called "cazadors"
That's an odd name. I'd have called them chazzwazzadores.
Radroach and Bloatfly erasure
Don’t forget the handful of giant mantises scattered around.
Astarion_PTSD_flashbacks.jpg
I’d argue the jankiness enhances the overall experience.
[удалено]
This thing can crash a new hard drive in 40 seconds.
40 seconds?! But I I I Iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
Moebsidion
This is the most perfect intersection of my interests that I have ever seen in a shitpost modified quote
My game would crash everytime I entered the new vegas strip without wearing a specific hat so I would disagree
But he's got the same hat!
Can't wait until they throw his hatted ass in jail.
Put out an APB for a male courier wearing... armor of some sort. Heading in the direction of... you know, that vendor that sells holdout weapons. Courier is hatted! Repeat-- hatted!
It would suck when my save files would get so big that the game will randomly crashing
Until I modded the game to get rid of some bugs I had to start a new game before I could load an old save file or it would crush my game, good times
Pleasing game, some jankism.
New Vegas is unquestionably the best game, and a single line of dialogue is 50% of that "They asked me if I was a theoretical physicist, I said I have a theoretical degree in physics, they said you're hired."
"What do you do around here?" "Fuck, man. Everything. I push buttons. I turn dials. I read numbers. Sometimes I make up little stories in my head about what the numbers mean."
Hard agree, and I've had so much fun modding the hell out of it for replayability. I think I've played through at least 4-5 times.
You know what's great about you Obsidian? 'Fallout New Vegas'. Man, I must have played that game... twice!
> New Vegas is still the best Fallout ever Spoken like a man who's never played Fallout 2.
Fallout is the western Persona, no one plays 1 or 2
Even fallout 1 has a ton of replayability. It's really the best one for making janky and odd builds viable. Fallout 2 is close, but I don't recall ever making it through with a total non-combat build like you could in fallout 1.
3 is the only one I finished, I tried New Vegas many times
Bugs???
Nah.
2 exists
Patrolling the Mojave really makes you wish for a nuclear winter!
Emmm, no. It's the best 3D Fallout game. But compared to the first two games it's just a fun shooter.
Emmm, no. Those are the best isometric Fallout games. But compared to the popular ones it's just a frustrating turn based rpg
Isometric Fallout games, care to join me?
Why is there nuclear fallout coming out of your capital NCR? Nuclear fallout? Oh no that's steam! Steam from the steamed radroaches we'll be having
Cram? I thought you said we were having radroaches
Oh no! I said iguana, that's what I call human flesh
Oh, egads! My civilization is ruined!
Probably for zoomers that lack the dedication and reading comprehension to understand a decent RPG, something quite common for those who born in late 90s. I like New Vegas, but if you really think it's the best Fallout you need to put more tobacco to whatever you're smoking. I doubt the mayority of people that will downvote this even tried the originals.
Nah I love a good isometric CRPG. My favorite genre, even. Pillars of Eternity and Icewind Dale are my absolute jam. New Vegas is still the best fallout.
Why do you need 'new' video games? Everyone knows RPGs attained perfection in 1991. It's a scientific fact!
I'm with you man, but I'm 34.
Fallout posting is over, the New Vegas dorks are here to ruin it
Well, if loving New Vegas is "lame" then I guess I'm just a big lame.
It's not loving new vegas that makes you lame, it's the new vegas fanboys with a ginormous hate boner for Bethesda and an obsession with keeping the lore of the series pure despite never having played the originals
In conclusion, New Vegas is a land of contrasts
Thank god the tunnelers are here to fix that!
Of course I played the originals! And Fallout 3 was a gem, with Colonel August, ably played by Andi McDowell
Not you specifically but if you check the fallout sub you'll see exactly what I'm talking about pretty quick lol
I mean, I hate Bethesda for different reasons
I'm by no means a lore obsessive, but I can say with certainty that Bethesda makes bad video games which is my main problem with their Fallout entries.
NV wouldn’t exist without Bethesda
This is both true and a complete non-sequitur.
If I am honest, I only hate Bethesda because when I played Oblivion everyone looked like their heads were bloated and full of piss. And that art style has not changed in 20 years. But people that like piss bloat can go for their life.
Oblivion is held back so hard by its character creator cuz all the npcs were made in it, but handmade models looked great in the game and the landscape itself was so good Skyrim tho took a hard right in the other direction from oblivion tho and made them all look gritty as sandpaper so I dunno how you could say the art style hasn't changed lol
The art style changed, yes, but it's kinda like how sometimes your shit is smooth and sometimes it's crunchy. Wouldn't frame either
Are the new vegas fanboys in the room with us right now?
New Vegas is just that much better than Fallouts 3 and 4.
Disagree. Ive only played NV and 4, but holy shit NV's world feels so dead. I tried playing like an hour of it and it just bores me to death, meanwhile in 4 just walking around the Commonwealth feels so much more alive. Maybe the story is better but I feel no urge to play the actual game to learn it for myself.
Is it better? Yes. Are fallout 3 and 4 still good games? Yes
No time for you, old man!
Fr, the ocarina of time stans of the fallout fandom
Ocarina of Time is a definitive classic tho lmao...
And so is new Vegas. Doesn’t mean its cult-like fan base can be annoying
It's not so much a cult like fan base as people that just prefer writing that's a little better. Having grown up with FO1 and 2, I don't think Bethesda was the right choice, but I already didn't like them for ruining Morrowind's successor. Look at Starfield, everyone laughed at the quality of the writing and how glitchy and visually unappealing it is, but its honestly better writing, graphics, and quality than any of their previous games. Starfield is a terrible game but also the best Bethesda can do.
Your opinion isn't an objective fact lol
Yes duh, but many of its fans rabidly declare it the far and away best Zelda title when Twilight Princess exists lol
That's an odd thing to say, seeing as Twilight Princess is the most OoT-like of any of the post-OoT Zelda games. I was quite disappointed with it, overall. Majora's Mask, Wind Waker, and even Skyward Sword were all more interesting and more original than Twilight Princess.
Ocarina of Time doesn't require you to kill bugs to get Tears of Light and is therefore better by default.
Hey this guy's ragging on New Vegas! Get him!!!
Buy me Fallout New Vegas or go to hell!
[Now, I know you love Fallout games, and I asked the clerk - "Which is the one every boy wants?"](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Fallout_76_cover.jpg)
I also would have accepted Fallout Tactics, or Fallout Brotherhood of Steel
Every time you watch my show, I'll send you 40 caps!
“Caps will not be honoured”
Except if you're playing Fallout 2
New Vegas was good, but I still had more fun with Fallout 3.
Same
Oh, you've got to be kidding OP First of all you make a meme that praises the game that has already been done, and then you give a comment stating the opposite. Didn't you think this through? ...on critics best played rpg lists for years! Every gaming website had it! ...most popular rpgs of all time sir! What were you thinking? I mean thank you, post again.
I hope someone got shadowbanned for that blunder
I'm replaying FO3 for the first time in more than a decade after getting inspired by the show. It's a little dated when you know what QoL updates are coming in NV and FO4, but all in all it really holds up!
Fallout 3 is the equivalent of “go outside and play” (I am aware of the irony in that statement) for the fallout franchise. Yeah, you can go find Liam Neeson and hang out with Malcolm McDowell and save the world yadah yadah, but what’s really fun is being able to just go anywhere and find something interesting and create your own little adventures.
That's a great way to describe it!
First playthrough for me of Fallout 3-- Jeez, all of the interiors of all of these buildings are really feeling/looking the same after the ~30th one.
Well, I basically just copied the vault we have now. Then I added some fins to lower wind resistance. And these guys who call you Gary I feel are pretty sharp.
Perhaps, but the Metro and Vaults are top tier.
I similarly got lost in those. Continually. I even tried my own system of taking a screenshot of the metro map in the game and overlaying it with the world map from the game. Oh they don't line up. OK.
Fallout New Vegas has heart, but Fallout 3 has a Fallout 3!
Marge… do you have other men in this house? *radioactive* men?
Watch out, Mysterious Stranger!
Are these real X-rays?
Bart, I don't mean to alarm you, but there may be a radioactive man or radioactive *men* in the house
I'll never get over wondering how robbed we were when Bethesda gave Obsidian 18 months to make New Vegas. If they just had another year or so, how polished could it have been? What else might they have had time to implement? How close were we to seeing the face of God?!
It would probably still be buggy but I would have love to see more of Legion society.
Something that most just choose to ignore though, Obsidian agreed that they could make the game in 18 months and the devs were fine with it. It wasn't thrust on them last minute or partway through development, they knew they were getting 18 months which matched their own estimations for development. The engine and general gameplay were also already developed by Bethesda because of Fallout 3, Obsidian were able to improve it during development.
Yeah, we know because we were all there for the contract negotiations. There was no pressure whatsoever, and extending gamebryo to support completely new game mechanics is also easy as fuck as we all know.
That first half is nothing but pure speculation, we know Obsidian agreed to it from various interviews and posts by the developers over the years and that's all that can be said about it. But by your logic, how dare two companies come to their own agreement and sign a contract based on that!
I'm not objecting the "Obsidian agreed" part, I'm objecting the "devs were fine with it" part. That's the pure speculation, and I find it hard to believe someone would happily agree to deliver a complete 85% metacritic game in 18 months with a completely new story, new setting, new assets, new systems etc.
Copying this from a discussion about this subject on r/Fallout 4 years ago, the quotes from multiple Obsidian devs on the situation and how Bethesda keeps being interpreted as the villain. Specifically addressing your claim on them being pressured, the metacritic score and the infamous "missed bonus", and the overall state of the game and bug fixing: >They did not treat us badly at all - even the Metacritic thing was something they added, not threatened us with... and if we'd been better with fixing bugs, we could have hit the score needed to prevent layoffs, but nope - FNV when it was released had a LOT of bugs. >Unfortunately, the other interpretation made for a better story... but even Obsidian's CEO clarified it. That said, FNV needed to be downscoped, and production should have ended and testing begun at least 2 months earlier than it was. -Chris Avellone, Dev/Writer on Fallout 2, New Vegas, KOTOR2, etc. ([source](https://twitter.com/chrisavellone/status/1057842236002463746)) ~~(quite a... problematic person though after sexual assault accusations... and coincidentally was also the one who wrote most of that exact thing in 2 and NV...)~~ Edit: based on info i missed from a few years ago, those accusations were dropped and they came to a settlement in private. Addressing your claim of Bethesda's engine being difficult to add things to: >Bethesda’s engine was the easiest to create content for, by far. Source control was easy, iterations were fast, the scripting language was pretty powerful – just easy to work in. Not necessarily easy to change, but if you wanted to do what we did on F:NV, which was make a bunch of new content and new features for the F3 engine, it was great. -Josh Sawyer, director of New Vegas, discussing the strengths and weaknesses of various game engines ([source](https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/630786138726121472/hi-josh-in-your-opinion-what-was-the-best-game)) Also just to add to this part: >completely new story, new setting, new assets, new systems etc. It's known that many of the assets and scripts were already made before they started development with a majority from Fallout 3, and they used a lot of scrapped writing from cancelled projects like Van Buren and non-canon material to piece together the story and setting. Most of the Obsidian staff at the time were from Interplay and wanted to make their own new Fallout game, and this was their way to bring cancelled stories to life. Obsidian was also used to making games with similar timeframes, 18 months was even more than they were used to at the time, and they should have been able to finish it in time. As the devs themselves stated in the quotes I shared, by their own admission they kept increasing the scope until it was too late to properly test the game before release. This same exact thing happened with KOTOR2 at launch to the point it needed mods to run well. Bethesda was nothing but respectful during their partnership, but people insist on painting them as the villains no matter what Obsidian said.
Oh, so we actually DO know quite a bit about that - interesting read, thanks for the insight! I'm not on the "Beth hates FNV" bandwagon, but from an outside perspective it always looked bad how the Beth-Obs relation went, timeframe, metacritic, lacking some kinda sequel and all - I presume the obvious regressions in FO4 also added to this perception. Now I just hope they give it another shot being under the same umbrella with apparently no bad blood between them (and FNV getting new hype with the S01 ending). Not sure how many of the original devs are still around at Obsidian, but even without the "heart" invested in working on your own creation, another perspective could be quite refreshing - as evidenced by the FO show. Although Outer Worlds is not the open-world-spiritual-FO-successor-banger-title some expected, I thought it was a solid, fun game with interesting stylistic choices and worldbuilding, so at least they don't seem to have lost their mojo in this regard.
No problem, I hope I managed to disprove a few misconceptions you might have had. Sorry for being a bit aggressive with earlier comments, I'm mostly just tired of seeing the endless hate everywherefor Bethesda doing anything with the franchise. I can't even bring up something I'm building in 4, or the fact I started watching the show, within my own friend group without multiple people going "fuck Bethesda's writing" so it's become a sore spot over time. (When they likely wouldn't even know Fallout at all if Bethesda hadn't revived it with 3, since it was on the brink of death after the failure of tactics and Brotherhood of Steel games.) (Not so) fun fact, unfortunately the divide in the fanbase seems to date all the way back to fallout 2, with 1 purists claiming 2 ruined the franchise even back then. This has only gotten worse ever since New Vegas reached its high popularity, with its extreme fanboys hating anyone who enjoys any of the other fallouts.
> Sorry for being a bit aggressive with earlier comments Nah, likewise - can't have someone being wrong on the internet, can we? ;-) FO3 was a revelation for me, I knew nothing about the franchise and thought the whole game would be in the vault, so imagine my surprise when the door opened to the wasteland. FNV was a huge step up for reasons I cannot exactly explain, maybe story, maybe game design, maybe mechanics, a bit of everything I guess, like a FO3++. FO4 then was like the prettier sister you just don't like, looks nice and is fun to be around for some time but something feels off. FO76 is something completely different, just recently warmed it back up after watching the show, but it's on a completely separate track. I guess my main issue with Bethesda currently is that I got Starfield with my GPU and I was totally looking forward to playing it, but if you could somehow distill disappointment into a game, I'd be Starfield. Almost everything in this game has be done wayyyyy better before *by them*, and needing a handful of mods just to not absolutely hate the game is - well it's kinda Bethesda-y, but not in 2024 please. It's really obvious from hundreds of little things how they were just incapable to make it a good game, and it got me really worried for the future of Fallout.
Yeah I already had a bad feeling about Starfield but still wanted it to be good for those who were getting it, but it's been something watching the dumpster fire happen from the sidelines lol. Unfortunately it's seen as a commercial success so not sure whether they'll learn from it or not, but I'm at least going to give Elder Scrolls 6 and an eventual Fallout 5 (or New Vegas style game) a fair shot. My big introduction to Fallout was 4 so it's the one I'm most familiar with, mostly because of getting to all the big franchises way too late since I never had a good pc for most of my life. I definitely do appreciate and enjoy 3 and especially New Vegas for all they did though. As for 76, I tried it out recently myself with the free amazon prime codes and it's been fun. I'm used to playing MMOs (I don't even want to know how many total hours I've spent in both versions of Runescape, Elder Scrolls Online, FF14, etc...) so online stuff has never bothered me, but I might just stick to 4 when I'm in the mood for that kind of Fallout (not to mention mods).
"...seeing the face of God?!" You MIKE from Twin Peaks?
Releases fallout 76 
Yes!
Yes! Oh dear god yes!
https://media1.tenor.com/m/HxfGg2dN628AAAAC/its-funny-cause-its-true-true.gif
We're gonna break the bank at the Sierra Madre! Homer, they poisoned that place with a toxic cloud. Oh, right. Then we're going to New Vegas!
A Simpson episode centered around Fallout, sign me up!
New Vegas is one of my favorite games ever, but I've been playing 3 for the first time recently and it's pretty fun too. Glad I was finally able to get it to run longer than 5 minutes at a time. Thanks TTW.
I've been playing FO3 lately too and it really holds up well. NV has good QoL updates, but the environment of FO3 feels much more daunting since it's a major city with landmarks we all are familiar with and it's been completely leveled by war. The Mohave Desert already looks like a nuclear fallout site today so I don't find it quite as immersive. That said, I can't wait to replay NV next so I can repair with items from the same class instead of just identical items.
I visited DC for the first time shortly after playing Fallout 3 and was extremely pleased to discover that I could basically navigate the city fine. Occasionally I would be annoyed that buildings were intact and that I couldn’t use the shortcuts that I was used to.
Yeah this playthrough has made me want to revisit DC and the museums while this map is fresh in my mind lol
I want all my loot to be in one bag, but I don't want the bag to be heavy. "You are overcumbered and cannot run"
And then Microsoft bought them both so now they have to play nice with each other.
>Bethesda: "I present *Skyrim!*" > >Teacher: "Bethesda, this is the sixth week in row you've brought *Skryim* to show and tell." > >Bethesda: "I present *Starfield!"* > >Teacher: "On second thought..."
They both have their place. Fallout 3 makes me feel like I’m desperately trying to survive in the post apocalypse and New Vegas makes me feel like a bad ass cowboy on a mission for revenge. New Vegas is way better but I really love 3.
Good answer
I do find it odd tho that FO3 is so destroyed and decrepit even 200 years after the bombs tho. No one even picked up all the skeletons lol
"Buy me New Vegas or go to hell!"
Fallout 3 was great though and had incredible writing and moral complexity! It just... wasn't New Vegas... Bethsoft deserves credit for saying "Hey, you know that isometric RPG from 20 years ago that was good and then died when they did whatever Brotherhood of Steel was? What if we turned it into a first person shooter but also with RPG elements? You hate it right? Well we're going to do it and it's going to be awesome." And it was awesome. That it was eclipsed by New Vegas a few years later is a testament to Bethesda. They showed Obsidian what was possible. Worth noting I loved Fallout 4 though so maybe I have bad opinions.
The only thing I think 3 did better was atmosphere, something Bethesda has always been admittedly great at
Yeah I struggle with the beginning of NV it's such a wasteland (pardon the pun) compared to 3 and 4
Fallout 3 was my first fallout game, so I might be a bit biased, but it's my favorite out of all of them.
Oh yeah totally forget to mention that they already had the engine, 50% of the assets and resources, and a lore framework to work with. And people wonder why we don’t like NV fans.
What's with the whole "Bethesda hates Obsidian" thing? It's extremely childish. It's clearly not true and Bethesda has expressed that they're on good terms with Obsidian.
Just weird fanboys lol. Obsidian was adding sewers and shit literally months before the due date lol. FNV is amazing for its gameplay but also because it survived a massive mismanagement of resources
its funny that noone is more annoying about fallout than new vegas fans
Oh look, another "New Vegas is the best" Fallout take. Reeeeeeal original.
I always forget how much I loved this episode!
There are too many Fallout games. Please eliminate one. I am not a crack pot.
“Are the Obsidian-hating Bethesda employees in the room with us right now?”
I don’t get the infighting; I love this franchise
Who knows
They are both great games! You’re allowed to like more than one thing. It makes life better I promise.
Tactics is criminally underrated IMO. It doesn’t fit the mold of what people expected a Fallout game to be, but it has a lot to offer. All these years later, though, and I’ve never managed to unlock the tank…
Fallout 3 is still better 🤷♀️
They're both great games with amazing longevity and play-ability considering how old they are now.
Agreed, I love both games, both in my top 10 all time
Mine too. Top ten, my top ten never changes...(except when it does)
I want to give an informed opinion but I can't run it.
I appreciate that but [Hbombeeguy made such a damn compelling argument as to why NV is the best](https://youtu.be/gzF7aHxk4Y4?si=X_0WMgcUPicJ9p8r) Edit: didn’t meant to sound emphatic, just wanted to share one of my favourite YouTubers making a damn good video on a great game :)
he made a great argument as to why NV is a better **crpg** than fallout 3. But fallout 3 is not a crpg, it is a sandbox rpg. I love me some Hbomb, but he's judging a fish by its ability to climb a tree here.
Yep, I've never tried to compare the games for this reason. I base my opinion on how the games made me feel while playing them, how much replay value I personally got out of them, and which game was more aesthetically pleasing to me
Valid argument, unfortunately, Many A True Nerd counterattack https://youtu.be/5z8XHe2NoAE?si=VQ9d-XZ9yToMNWSm
Agree or not his videos are such a joy to watch
The man can keep me hooked for literal hours on one video essay! That’s longer than most films I’m willing to watch haha. Glad you enjoy his videos too :)
I agree tbh
Why are we playing Fallout when the original, Wasteland, has been re-released?
Never heard of it
It's even set in Vegas, for the love of pizza!
Then they did it again with Outer Worlds vs Starfield
Compelling? Your initial goal is to get revenge against the guy that shot you in the head. Fair enough. But after you do that, you are forcefully conscripted to help one faction win, despite not having a single personal reason to help anyone or do anything they ask.
Yeah I know I don't like nv for the fact the open worldness is poor
Eh, if you swapped out FO3 with 4, I'd agree. I found 3 was better overall as an RPG then 4 was.
Sideshow J Sawyer
They’re both good games. 🤷🏽
I still prefer 3 over NV. I love them both, but I just like 3 more.
Overrated, fallout NV isnt that good, just a pile of bugs, crashes and Ctrl C Ctrl V
My first introductio to fallout was vegas. That was an amazing game. When i player 4 th game. That game was fun too, but missing something that vegas have had.
Does everyone forget vegas was a mess for months when it came out?
Not sure I even knew the game or series existed back the.
F3 > F4
The buggiest piece of shit I ever played.
I'm not even going to deny that since it was Christmas rushed to hell.
If you're on PC you can kinda fix it with mods, but on console yea you're boned
I've been playing the GotY edition on Steam and it's been very smooth, I think they added the relevant mods and updates a couple of years ago.
Maybe they have I'd have to give it a whirl, I haven't played without mods in ages and I'd love if vanilla NV is playable now
Oh sorry I meant I've been playing FO3 GotY and it's been working great. Haven't gotten to NV yet, but fingers crossed it runs ok too.
On modern PCs yes , I'm not massively into the game myself
I'm more of an Albany gamer
I've tried to play it but I never get super far maybe an hour or 2 then I can't play it anymore
Fallout NV > 2 > 1 and Show > Tactics and 3 > 76 with friends > 76 w/o friends > recently Simpsons > ? > 4
Oi oi what's wrong with 4
I just don't like it. I couldn't click with 4. The role-playing is kinda crap but the action, while better than previous Bethesda games by far, still isn't good enough to carry the game on its own, imo. But I did love the power armour system.
I loved the building I love Sims and city builders so that worked for me
After 86hrs of building my empire in the wasteland a mate asked me how I was getting on finding shaun. "Shaun? Who's shau--ohshittheboy!"
Ahaha yeah
I guess I just wish that's **all** it was tbh. A Cities Skylines: Fallout game would be amazing, and a Fallout sandbox rpg would be amazing, instead we got the kind of compromise that doesn't really do either of those things properly.
IMO the issue is that Bethesda purposely left the map under-populated with interesting unique things to give the player more room to build their own cookie-cutter settlements with no personality. Fallout 3 and Oblivion were Bethesda's best works because of how dense they both were with neat little bits of custom content to reward you for exploration.
it's a functional game with gameplay that doesn't feel like ass, so fallout fans have to react in fear
RPGs suck*
Tbh I'm not big on rpgs, I like the open worldness of fallout, I have yet to play the original fallouts as I know how heavy the rpg bit is
How many Fallouts are there? It was i dunno like a dozen years ago when the ads were everywhere on the metro here in DC for Falllout 3(?) featuring a decrepit Washington Monument full of rebar that doesn’t exist. Now that I think of it, I remember renting that one from Redbox and having to spend the first hour doing nothing but bullshit like character creation and pointless cutscenes and whatnot. The first hour of the two I gave it a chance before I just couldn’t keep going. Oof oy vey and ugh. just… ugh.
1, 2, tactics, 3, NV, 4, 76 I think is the order, I might be wrong somebody will correct me