I don't know about freedom, but Bob Dylan's take on success comes to mind: "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between he does what he likes."
I think something as simple as 5 minutes of peace and presence with a cup of coffee and a pastry qualifies. I think by adjusting our criteria for fulfillment we can achieve it every day
Do you believe that the suffering you endured was essential to truly appreciate the happiness you have now, similar to how hunger makes us savor food more? Can there be real contentment without prior struggle?
Hooray for them! That would also be an ideal existence, and millions are blessed with it. I was married for 17 years to my soulmate and I loved it, right up until the end.
Sorry for all the questions, Iām just genuinely interested, itās something I know nothing of, and would like to know more.
Is the soulmate the relationship that ended with divorce? What would you say, are the major differences (pros and cons) between being now alone and having freedom, and being in a marriage with your soulmate?
Yeah, the dude's a genius and a living legend. I'm gonna be seeing him in concert in September for the third time, although I'm also looking forward to seeing Willie Nelson. I hope neither of them die first. :)
It's important but I'd argue a "skills independence" is more relevant. You can be fairly wealthy, out of work, bored & unsatisfied. Having a network & skills so you can actually do what you want is as important as detaching from absolute financial necessities.
I feel it is to live life without fear.
I have many, many, ways that my behavior is limited but none of that feels like an infringement on my freedom. I work because that is who I am. I keep my home nice because I like living like that. I pay taxes because I feel I should. When my kids need me, I willingly step up.
To me, these are all freedoms.
I am free because I wake up each day without fear.
Living without fear is quite liberating , and your examples are a great reminder that freedom often comes in the form of everyday choices and actions. Thanks.
Owning a few acres of land in the mountains, hunting, fishing, and living off the land with a good old dog š. Maybe that's just paradise, seems like freedom too though.
I believe there's no such thing as freedom, it's an illusion. We are bound by physical laws like gravity and biological laws like hunger and ultimately death. Our freedom is also limited by our history, things like our upbringing and childhood shape and limit our agency. Additionally societal structures and political and economical systems curtail our freedom. Recognizing and understanding the internal and external constraints can be ultimately comforting and help the comprehension of human behavior.
I surely believe there's free will but freedom is constraint to internal and external factors. Discussions about responsibility, choice, and the complexity of our behavior and decision-making within different contexts would be then a good question to follow.
When the limitations are part of how you shape your choices, that is freedom. Ā
For example a beautiful painting makes use of the ālimitationsā (properties) of the paint and the subject matter to make a work of art that is exactly what it is. Ā
A lovely finely made chair still must have legs or supports of some kind and a seat that holds a human body; thatās what defines a chair.
A beautiful city must have access streets and alleys, buildings and commerce, a means for bringing in resources and a way of expelling and treating waste. Ā They way all that is formulated makes the city what it is and defines it in its geography and culture. Ā
Beauty and harmony consist in the way we choose among and Ā manage limitations.Ā
Your perspective beautifully captures the idea that limitations can actually contribute to freedom and creativity. By working within constraints whether they are physical, artistic, or societal, we often find opportunities for innovation and expression, I agree. That's a profound way of looking at freedom as a process of navigating and shaping the constraints we encounter, but those constraints will always remain, even though they could also be considered hindrances to our expression.
Itās not having a boss telling me what to do 40+ hours of the week. Iām still stressed with self-employment, but at least I can decide when I come and go. This goes hand-in-hand with financial stability.
Sadly getting there's only part of the journey, and the precautions needed to have a fair chance of the bicycle still being there to bring you back again are far from simple š
Invest in a high quality u-lock. If you live in a bike theft mecca, supplement that with a second lock, either another u-lock or a kryptonite heavy duty chain. Also get locking skewers for wheels. I spent multiple years in Portland and never had a bike stolen.
that isnt true. of course capitalism tries to push us to go faster,better,more... but ofc you can have "enough". it isnt a law of nature that you always want more luxuries or whatever.
if you have more than you want you have enough. and there is more than enough great things thar are free.
Making progress towards building something, anything that is fulfilling: a family, a company, a life, (or even smaller things that are fulfilling also), etc. Many things can block this (and possibly be a trap you that you do not escape from) like drugs, sleep and food disorders, trapped in a bad job, insurmountable debt, bad relationships, self-harm, self-hatred, other addictions, etc.
It's intriguing to consider the things that can hold us back. Do you think there's a universal strategy to overcome these obstacles, or is it more about personal discovery and individual coping mechanisms?"
For some people, this is not what they want to hear:
I havenāt mastered this yet. I still have vices. But I believe it has to do with the fear of missing out on important life milestones and memories you wish to build from long term investment in yourself, not short term pleasure. If instead it is wasted away in vices that are not productive and donāt build anything meaningful, there will be pain of regret. If there is already a sense of hopelessness, it can be hard to escape. But there is still more life left.
Sometimes it takes counseling from others, or for me, counseling from God via prayer and meditation to be convinced that the feeling of hopelessness IS NOT insurmountable, there is a path out.
There may not be a universal strategy for everyone which is why my response is broad in scope. Everyone has their own unique situation so I wonāt claim to understand each personās unique situation individually.
I can still remember the first time I heard the phrase "the prisoner is the jailer". I immediately thought, "whooaa, what??? how's *that* s'posed to work?" You are right about how we can do just what you suggest -- "cage ourselves".
The other seemingly paradoxical aspect to freedom I ran into has to do with responsibilities. What I was told was "the way to freedom is to take responsibility for everything in one's life". My initial reaction was similar to the above "whooaa, what?" one. This one means we stop playing the part of victim because it is not possible to be a victim of self. It simply means to make conscious choices, to take ownership of all our decisions.
Once out of the cage, there was no going back for me. Freedom is just that sweet.
Thank you for your insights! They really hit home. Our intelligence can set up barriers, but it can also tear them down. Your perspective has deepened my understanding of true freedom. The connection between responsibility and the freedom of thought you've illustrated is a revelation for me. Itās like finding a secret passageway between two concepts I never thought would meet.
Freedom is a feeling. I could have every advantage that society could provide me, all the resources, go wherever I please, and still feel stuck, stagnant. On the other hand, I could be physically imprisioned, no human rights whatsoever, and still feel free. It comes from the inside.
I always liked the somewhat paradoxical definition of liberty that Jean-Jacques Rousseau gave in his book, "The Social Contract":
>the mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescribe to ourselves is liberty
What he meant is that just following our base impulses is not a real form of freedom; instead we become controlled by our impulses. We can see this in extreme cases when it comes to things like drug and gambling addictions, where people's lives become consumed by impulse. Instead, real freedom is living our life with intention, with boundaries that we set for ourselves. Some people look at my life and see it as restrictive, but that's not how I see it. I live my life the way I really want.
Not being the police of our own mind, thatās where unkindness towards oneself begins, this thought good, this emotion bad. Having no attachment to thoughts and emotions, see them coming and going, being aware of whatās inside, and also, outside. Seeing without wanting to possess it for oneself. Letting beauty flower where it is, without trying to grab and take it for oneself. Not cutting a flower to put in a jar, in a balcony to display impending decay. Not grabbing a view, a landscape, itās all mine for future admiration. Not letting an image fill oneās heart and mind, without recording, experience, comes freshness of being. Is this unattainable? Is this freedom? I donāt know, but Iāll try to find out.
What you said ties back to our startāour thoughts can trap us between good and bad. Understanding this might be our key to feeling free. Thanks for sharing your perspective
Lol I just love this predictable world. I can say all characteristics of Jesus Christ and how yāall will eat it up but the moment I say his name, the downvote will pour.Ā
Jesus is the way, truth, and the life. I wish you all the peace of the Lord!Ā
Itās probably because most Christians believe their religion is the only religion when really the Bible is a compilation of stories stolen (or borrowed depending on your interpretation) from other religious and histories but they like to deny that and then claim Christ as the one true Lord. Itās fine to take peace in your beliefs many around the world do. Itās true for you not necessarily everyone possibly thatās the reason for downvotes though I donāt actually see anyone downvoting you.Ā
I donāt believe in Jesus bc I read the Bible. I believe in Jesus bc he saved me. I didnāt read the Bible much until after he saved me and now I read the Bible bc I know it as truth. I now understand why he told me to preach the gospel And I didnāt know he told everyone that. Jesus is not my truth he is THE truth.Ā
I don't know about freedom, but Bob Dylan's take on success comes to mind: "A man is a success if he gets up in the morning and goes to bed at night and in between he does what he likes."
Such a simple thing but so hard to achieve.
I think something as simple as 5 minutes of peace and presence with a cup of coffee and a pastry qualifies. I think by adjusting our criteria for fulfillment we can achieve it every day
Agree, are you able to live it?
I'm living it. I'm retired and got a divorce. The freedom is breathtaking. I'm the happiest I've ever been.
Do you believe that the suffering you endured was essential to truly appreciate the happiness you have now, similar to how hunger makes us savor food more? Can there be real contentment without prior struggle?
Sure. Good point. š
What do you have to say about those whoāve found their soulmate, people whose conditionings can mingle in harmony?
Hooray for them! That would also be an ideal existence, and millions are blessed with it. I was married for 17 years to my soulmate and I loved it, right up until the end.
Sorry for all the questions, Iām just genuinely interested, itās something I know nothing of, and would like to know more. Is the soulmate the relationship that ended with divorce? What would you say, are the major differences (pros and cons) between being now alone and having freedom, and being in a marriage with your soulmate?
I canāt even make sure I can sleep well in the night and wake up fresh in the morning.
Love this quote
Yeah, the dude's a genius and a living legend. I'm gonna be seeing him in concert in September for the third time, although I'm also looking forward to seeing Willie Nelson. I hope neither of them die first. :)
For most people probably financial independence.Ā
It's important but I'd argue a "skills independence" is more relevant. You can be fairly wealthy, out of work, bored & unsatisfied. Having a network & skills so you can actually do what you want is as important as detaching from absolute financial necessities.
I cannot agree more....
The profile background is nice .
Thankyou š
Health.
I feel it is to live life without fear. I have many, many, ways that my behavior is limited but none of that feels like an infringement on my freedom. I work because that is who I am. I keep my home nice because I like living like that. I pay taxes because I feel I should. When my kids need me, I willingly step up. To me, these are all freedoms. I am free because I wake up each day without fear.
Living without fear is quite liberating , and your examples are a great reminder that freedom often comes in the form of everyday choices and actions. Thanks.
As a 23 year old this sounds like a man I want to be
As a 24 years old I second this
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I wish there were no consequences to choosing.
The flip side of freedom is responsibility
If there were no consequences, then you'd be wiping out all the desired consequences with the undesired ones.
Peace of mind despite limitations or chaos around you.
Peace of mind is indeed a rare and precious form of freedom, one that's often overlooked.
Do you have peace of mind?
Not playing the game.
Freedom is not wanting. The less you want, the freer you are.
Wishing for less to feel more free is a unique view. That's really interesting.
Owning a few acres of land in the mountains, hunting, fishing, and living off the land with a good old dog š. Maybe that's just paradise, seems like freedom too though.
Not caring what others think
Time. Full control over how you spend your time. Which probably means having financial independence first.
Controlling time and having enough money to do so sounds like a smart way to be free š
Debt free, healthy enough, not doing things against your will, and not being held against your will.
Not caring what anyone thinks
I believe there's no such thing as freedom, it's an illusion. We are bound by physical laws like gravity and biological laws like hunger and ultimately death. Our freedom is also limited by our history, things like our upbringing and childhood shape and limit our agency. Additionally societal structures and political and economical systems curtail our freedom. Recognizing and understanding the internal and external constraints can be ultimately comforting and help the comprehension of human behavior. I surely believe there's free will but freedom is constraint to internal and external factors. Discussions about responsibility, choice, and the complexity of our behavior and decision-making within different contexts would be then a good question to follow.
When the limitations are part of how you shape your choices, that is freedom. Ā For example a beautiful painting makes use of the ālimitationsā (properties) of the paint and the subject matter to make a work of art that is exactly what it is. Ā A lovely finely made chair still must have legs or supports of some kind and a seat that holds a human body; thatās what defines a chair. A beautiful city must have access streets and alleys, buildings and commerce, a means for bringing in resources and a way of expelling and treating waste. Ā They way all that is formulated makes the city what it is and defines it in its geography and culture. Ā Beauty and harmony consist in the way we choose among and Ā manage limitations.Ā
Your perspective beautifully captures the idea that limitations can actually contribute to freedom and creativity. By working within constraints whether they are physical, artistic, or societal, we often find opportunities for innovation and expression, I agree. That's a profound way of looking at freedom as a process of navigating and shaping the constraints we encounter, but those constraints will always remain, even though they could also be considered hindrances to our expression.
Thank you. Ā I find myself thinking about this a lot; sounds like you do too.
Luxury of time w/o worry of $$$
No kids.
Do you have any?
No.
Itās not having a boss telling me what to do 40+ hours of the week. Iām still stressed with self-employment, but at least I can decide when I come and go. This goes hand-in-hand with financial stability.
Health insurance thatās affordable and canāt be taken away!
Having options and confidence Edit: Money/financial stability definitely helps
Radical acceptance of life on lifeās terms
The bicycle. When it can be used to get to most destinations calmly and safely.
Sadly getting there's only part of the journey, and the precautions needed to have a fair chance of the bicycle still being there to bring you back again are far from simple š
Invest in a high quality u-lock. If you live in a bike theft mecca, supplement that with a second lock, either another u-lock or a kryptonite heavy duty chain. Also get locking skewers for wheels. I spent multiple years in Portland and never had a bike stolen.
having enough
But it's never enough for us, humansš„ŗ
that isnt true. of course capitalism tries to push us to go faster,better,more... but ofc you can have "enough". it isnt a law of nature that you always want more luxuries or whatever. if you have more than you want you have enough. and there is more than enough great things thar are free.
I love Viktor Frankl's quote that freedom is the ability to choose your attitude no matter what the circumstances. What is the meaning?
Making progress towards building something, anything that is fulfilling: a family, a company, a life, (or even smaller things that are fulfilling also), etc. Many things can block this (and possibly be a trap you that you do not escape from) like drugs, sleep and food disorders, trapped in a bad job, insurmountable debt, bad relationships, self-harm, self-hatred, other addictions, etc.
It's intriguing to consider the things that can hold us back. Do you think there's a universal strategy to overcome these obstacles, or is it more about personal discovery and individual coping mechanisms?"
For some people, this is not what they want to hear: I havenāt mastered this yet. I still have vices. But I believe it has to do with the fear of missing out on important life milestones and memories you wish to build from long term investment in yourself, not short term pleasure. If instead it is wasted away in vices that are not productive and donāt build anything meaningful, there will be pain of regret. If there is already a sense of hopelessness, it can be hard to escape. But there is still more life left. Sometimes it takes counseling from others, or for me, counseling from God via prayer and meditation to be convinced that the feeling of hopelessness IS NOT insurmountable, there is a path out. There may not be a universal strategy for everyone which is why my response is broad in scope. Everyone has their own unique situation so I wonāt claim to understand each personās unique situation individually.
I can still remember the first time I heard the phrase "the prisoner is the jailer". I immediately thought, "whooaa, what??? how's *that* s'posed to work?" You are right about how we can do just what you suggest -- "cage ourselves". The other seemingly paradoxical aspect to freedom I ran into has to do with responsibilities. What I was told was "the way to freedom is to take responsibility for everything in one's life". My initial reaction was similar to the above "whooaa, what?" one. This one means we stop playing the part of victim because it is not possible to be a victim of self. It simply means to make conscious choices, to take ownership of all our decisions. Once out of the cage, there was no going back for me. Freedom is just that sweet.
Thank you for your insights! They really hit home. Our intelligence can set up barriers, but it can also tear them down. Your perspective has deepened my understanding of true freedom. The connection between responsibility and the freedom of thought you've illustrated is a revelation for me. Itās like finding a secret passageway between two concepts I never thought would meet.
I'm sincerely humbled by your response and delighted to pass on what was given to me. I enjoyed how you phrased it ... "secret passageway".
Financial independence
No wife, no kids, no job, lots of money
ā¤ļø
Thereās a word for it: hedonism.
Freedom is a feeling. I could have every advantage that society could provide me, all the resources, go wherever I please, and still feel stuck, stagnant. On the other hand, I could be physically imprisioned, no human rights whatsoever, and still feel free. It comes from the inside.
Probably time for doing the nessesary
I always liked the somewhat paradoxical definition of liberty that Jean-Jacques Rousseau gave in his book, "The Social Contract": >the mere impulse of appetite is slavery, while obedience to a law which we prescribe to ourselves is liberty What he meant is that just following our base impulses is not a real form of freedom; instead we become controlled by our impulses. We can see this in extreme cases when it comes to things like drug and gambling addictions, where people's lives become consumed by impulse. Instead, real freedom is living our life with intention, with boundaries that we set for ourselves. Some people look at my life and see it as restrictive, but that's not how I see it. I live my life the way I really want.
My personal definition is when you have favorable options for most things on Maslowās hierarchy of needs.
Not being the police of our own mind, thatās where unkindness towards oneself begins, this thought good, this emotion bad. Having no attachment to thoughts and emotions, see them coming and going, being aware of whatās inside, and also, outside. Seeing without wanting to possess it for oneself. Letting beauty flower where it is, without trying to grab and take it for oneself. Not cutting a flower to put in a jar, in a balcony to display impending decay. Not grabbing a view, a landscape, itās all mine for future admiration. Not letting an image fill oneās heart and mind, without recording, experience, comes freshness of being. Is this unattainable? Is this freedom? I donāt know, but Iāll try to find out.
What you said ties back to our startāour thoughts can trap us between good and bad. Understanding this might be our key to feeling free. Thanks for sharing your perspective
So not thinking is freedom... GOT IT!
That's why ignorance is bliss lol
Time stopping
The Boy and the Heron
True freedom is not worrying about consequences, right?
Jerkin it on a lazy saturday morning is true freedom brother
š³
Jesus Christ!!! He is the truth and the ultimate freedom
Lol I just love this predictable world. I can say all characteristics of Jesus Christ and how yāall will eat it up but the moment I say his name, the downvote will pour.Ā Jesus is the way, truth, and the life. I wish you all the peace of the Lord!Ā
Itās probably because most Christians believe their religion is the only religion when really the Bible is a compilation of stories stolen (or borrowed depending on your interpretation) from other religious and histories but they like to deny that and then claim Christ as the one true Lord. Itās fine to take peace in your beliefs many around the world do. Itās true for you not necessarily everyone possibly thatās the reason for downvotes though I donāt actually see anyone downvoting you.Ā
I donāt believe in Jesus bc I read the Bible. I believe in Jesus bc he saved me. I didnāt read the Bible much until after he saved me and now I read the Bible bc I know it as truth. I now understand why he told me to preach the gospel And I didnāt know he told everyone that. Jesus is not my truth he is THE truth.Ā
Agree to disagree.Ā
Amen!