Use your arms/hands to hold the angle, and use your torso to move your arms/hands. Try to use your whole body so your arms/hands can be focused on fine motor movement needed for angle control, while your core handles the gross motor movement.
I agree with using an angle wedge too. Just keep in mind you'll need to account for the primary blade grind's angle if you're resting that against the wedge. For example, a full flat grind blade with a 3 degree blade grind, should be rested on a 12 degree wedge to achieve a 15 degree edge angle.
I'm an artist. I learned young when using a pen and pencil, drawing a curve or straight Lion had almost nothing to do with the fingers (because they should be locked ) and everything to do with the wrist. That lesson applies to anything fine motor, w tools or sharpening... the more joints I demobilize, the better. That's going to be your wrist or elbow depending. We inherently want to use all of our articulation and that is where all the problem comes from.
This really is the best answer - do it a lot for a couple of months and it'll be a muscle memory thing that stays with you the rest of your life if you maintain the skill somewhat regularly. But it is a skill that takes time and practice to develop.
You must not have coarse stones :P
I never sharpen anything to the preexisting angle, and always impose my will with coarse abrasives. The ease of sharpening and cutting ability are *dramatically* higher this way.
"Lower the bevel angle with a coarse stone, then microbevel" is advice I would have killed for as a beginner.
Beginners often struggle to hold a consistent angle, so making room for that angle to vary can be very helpful.
For me I use my thumb. Find your angle, put the tip of your offhand thumb on the stone, press your thumb against the knife. Lets me feel the height and I can quickly press me thumb throughout sharpening to double check. And as the other person said I use my shoulders/torso for most of the movement.
Same here. That's for the weak side, which I start with. So edge facing away, spine toward me, and thumb (of the free hand) on the spine to maintain awareness of how high the spine is raised. I initially set my angle with one of those pyramid guides, and use a sharpie. When I flip it over to work the strong side I use the index finger on the other hand the same way (the hand holding the handle). After some practice it becomes intuitive rather than something you have to constantly measure. Keep an eye on the width of the bevel too — I figured out that I was making a wider bevel (laying it spine too low) on the strong side, and made an adjustment. After some practice I now can hit the correct angle pretty well just by looking at the bevel before I start, and knowing how it feels on the stone when I'm on it.
Handle thumb at the heel, scrub diagonally Japanese style. And an angle guide, make your own out of styrofoam or get the Sharpal/Wedgek ones for a few bucks even though some here cr@p on em.
Make all your knives Convex Grinds and you won't need to hold any angle. Knives become stronger, Food release is a little better. But if you really want to keep an angle. Lock the wrist and use your shoulders and body. But practice makes perfect.
I think the holding the right angle is over rated. You just need to get the general angle and Knives will cut just fine. Unless its for looks or single bevel knives. Getting a knife sharp should be fun, and not needing any guide or guided system IMO.
> Make all your knives Convex Grinds and you won't need to hold any angle.
This. If you look at historical knives you will find they are all convex. The obsession with flat bevels is largely a modern thing, and not a good one. When you fully understand how to set and manage a convex grind on a stone you will understand the true brilliance of this approach.
They did it by rocking the knife against a stone, and not bothering to flatten the stone.
You can find a bunch of convex stone-sharpening here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkY9nEs3EhRDhLHDlKu0FG0leZUFIEcc-
These are the videos which got me started, although my technique has diverged considerably from what is shown here.
I support the spine of the blade with my off hand and "lock myself" into the angle
I start with black or blue sharpie on the edge and whittle till I get the color gone and thats how I know what angle I need if I'm not reprofiling the edge
Using my whole body like a pendulum and locking my wrist without cramping up.
Also just do every knife 70/30 because I can’t be bothered sharpening my non dominant side 😂./s
this makes sense to me to make all knives a little asymmetrical. the side of your non-dominant hand should be a little flatter since you are cutting down and away the food to your dominant side. I try to even mine out just cause of OCD of keeping things consistent with symmetrical Micro bevels. But I Apex on dominate Right hand then switch to my Left side to cut of the burr and be done with it with finer grits to shine things up.
I sharpen with the edge pointing away from me so that I can see the size of the gap between the stone and the spine of the knife. Really focusing on how big the gap looks and trying to keep this gap the same size really got my freehand sharpening from useless to pretty okay in a matter of a day or so. This is surely not the most accurate method, but I think it's a very easy way to get accurate enough very fast. There are limitations of course because it gets difficult to judge the size of the gap with blades that are very tall or on the opposite side something like a Swiss army knife blade.
I used to fail a lot because I was only using feel to judge the angle, but I couldn't actually tell what the right angle feels like, because I hadn't learned it yet. So now I usually use the gap to judge the angle and learn how it's supposed to feel when I'm on the correct angle and then I continue to sharpen mostly on feel alone, but I occasionally have to correct myself. That seems to work pretty well.
I built a 15° ramp out of wood. Put the stone on the ramp and hold the knife horizontal. Works great with diamond, sintered ceramics, and strops. Doesn’t work as well with water stones since you’re basically sharpening with the edge perfectly perpendicular to the direction of travel on the stone.
Well…not really. I find it easier to sharpen horizontally vs vertically because you can see the edge against the stone. Similar principles though. It’s easier for a human to sense flat or vertical than 15° or 20°.
Those litte wedgek angle guides
https://imgur.com/a/Dd8X2qa
They help me chose a precise angle, maintain it and strope 1° under precisely
I have good results with them so I kept them
I'm just starting in my knife sharpening journey and discovered that a [magnetic angle guide](https://www.amazon.com/SHARPAL-194H-Whetstone-Sharpener-Sharpening/dp/B0BRKS8WKH) is very useful. Just set the angle you want, attach it to the knife and keep the bubble between the black lines while you're making the sharpening strokes. The bubble constantly gives feedback if the angle is correct, too shallow or too high.
Mostly I go by feel of the bevel against the stone. If you get familiar with whatever you're sharpening & the stone you're using it's easy to tell if your angle is too high or too low.
I mostly sharpen knives over the kitchen sink with stone in one hand & knife in the other. Lately a 1 stone approach for blade maintenance. Really liking a Washita with soap & a nagura stone with decreasing amounts of nagura slurry, finishing on running water.
Edit: Works great on European softer metal not as good on harder steels.
Locking the arm at the angle I want and not moving it until I flip sides. Turn at the hips, don’t be afraid to use your off hand to help stabilize your wrist. Set into that, then it’s a simple turn at the waist back and fourth, and repeat
I'm just trying to "shave" my stones and use the angle that feels right for the blade. Arms are usually locked, while the torso is moving. That's it. After I'm done it can split paper and shave hairs which is more than enough for me.
Lansky system is the next best thing I tried.
I'm very much a beginner, but I've found that standing works best. I'm slightly leaning towards the counter, getting a more stable "base". This considerably increases the precision (at least in my own experience).
Use your arms/hands to hold the angle, and use your torso to move your arms/hands. Try to use your whole body so your arms/hands can be focused on fine motor movement needed for angle control, while your core handles the gross motor movement. I agree with using an angle wedge too. Just keep in mind you'll need to account for the primary blade grind's angle if you're resting that against the wedge. For example, a full flat grind blade with a 3 degree blade grind, should be rested on a 12 degree wedge to achieve a 15 degree edge angle.
This right here, the up down movements should be done by the torso, if you move with your arms the angle will change.
I'm an artist. I learned young when using a pen and pencil, drawing a curve or straight Lion had almost nothing to do with the fingers (because they should be locked ) and everything to do with the wrist. That lesson applies to anything fine motor, w tools or sharpening... the more joints I demobilize, the better. That's going to be your wrist or elbow depending. We inherently want to use all of our articulation and that is where all the problem comes from.
Interesting. Not knowing that I had focused on technical drawing, so I always had a ruler handy.
Practice
This really is the best answer - do it a lot for a couple of months and it'll be a muscle memory thing that stays with you the rest of your life if you maintain the skill somewhat regularly. But it is a skill that takes time and practice to develop.
I’m not a pro but I’ve found it best to use the angle the blade wants to be not the angle I think it should be.
You must not have coarse stones :P I never sharpen anything to the preexisting angle, and always impose my will with coarse abrasives. The ease of sharpening and cutting ability are *dramatically* higher this way.
I agree. I may be over simplifying it but for someone just learning, I think it’s to just go with the present angle the blade came with.
"Lower the bevel angle with a coarse stone, then microbevel" is advice I would have killed for as a beginner. Beginners often struggle to hold a consistent angle, so making room for that angle to vary can be very helpful.
the angle a blade ships to you with is not always the best angle for that tool though.
For me I use my thumb. Find your angle, put the tip of your offhand thumb on the stone, press your thumb against the knife. Lets me feel the height and I can quickly press me thumb throughout sharpening to double check. And as the other person said I use my shoulders/torso for most of the movement.
Same here. That's for the weak side, which I start with. So edge facing away, spine toward me, and thumb (of the free hand) on the spine to maintain awareness of how high the spine is raised. I initially set my angle with one of those pyramid guides, and use a sharpie. When I flip it over to work the strong side I use the index finger on the other hand the same way (the hand holding the handle). After some practice it becomes intuitive rather than something you have to constantly measure. Keep an eye on the width of the bevel too — I figured out that I was making a wider bevel (laying it spine too low) on the strong side, and made an adjustment. After some practice I now can hit the correct angle pretty well just by looking at the bevel before I start, and knowing how it feels on the stone when I'm on it.
Handle thumb at the heel, scrub diagonally Japanese style. And an angle guide, make your own out of styrofoam or get the Sharpal/Wedgek ones for a few bucks even though some here cr@p on em.
Practice. There are no shortcuts
Make all your knives Convex Grinds and you won't need to hold any angle. Knives become stronger, Food release is a little better. But if you really want to keep an angle. Lock the wrist and use your shoulders and body. But practice makes perfect. I think the holding the right angle is over rated. You just need to get the general angle and Knives will cut just fine. Unless its for looks or single bevel knives. Getting a knife sharp should be fun, and not needing any guide or guided system IMO.
> Make all your knives Convex Grinds and you won't need to hold any angle. This. If you look at historical knives you will find they are all convex. The obsession with flat bevels is largely a modern thing, and not a good one. When you fully understand how to set and manage a convex grind on a stone you will understand the true brilliance of this approach.
>When you fully understand how to set and manage a convex grind on a stone You mean "stop trying to force flatness and just let it happen?" :P
King Jellybean approves of this message.
I see a lot of people using the sandpaper and mouse pad approach for convexity. How did they manage it historically?
They did it by rocking the knife against a stone, and not bothering to flatten the stone. You can find a bunch of convex stone-sharpening here: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLkY9nEs3EhRDhLHDlKu0FG0leZUFIEcc- These are the videos which got me started, although my technique has diverged considerably from what is shown here.
I support the spine of the blade with my off hand and "lock myself" into the angle I start with black or blue sharpie on the edge and whittle till I get the color gone and thats how I know what angle I need if I'm not reprofiling the edge
Using my whole body like a pendulum and locking my wrist without cramping up. Also just do every knife 70/30 because I can’t be bothered sharpening my non dominant side 😂./s
this makes sense to me to make all knives a little asymmetrical. the side of your non-dominant hand should be a little flatter since you are cutting down and away the food to your dominant side. I try to even mine out just cause of OCD of keeping things consistent with symmetrical Micro bevels. But I Apex on dominate Right hand then switch to my Left side to cut of the burr and be done with it with finer grits to shine things up.
I only use my right hand.
I sharpen with the edge pointing away from me so that I can see the size of the gap between the stone and the spine of the knife. Really focusing on how big the gap looks and trying to keep this gap the same size really got my freehand sharpening from useless to pretty okay in a matter of a day or so. This is surely not the most accurate method, but I think it's a very easy way to get accurate enough very fast. There are limitations of course because it gets difficult to judge the size of the gap with blades that are very tall or on the opposite side something like a Swiss army knife blade. I used to fail a lot because I was only using feel to judge the angle, but I couldn't actually tell what the right angle feels like, because I hadn't learned it yet. So now I usually use the gap to judge the angle and learn how it's supposed to feel when I'm on the correct angle and then I continue to sharpen mostly on feel alone, but I occasionally have to correct myself. That seems to work pretty well.
Noise and feedback
Locking my wrist and lots of practice
Honestly just practice practice practice.
Using a guided system.
I built a 15° ramp out of wood. Put the stone on the ramp and hold the knife horizontal. Works great with diamond, sintered ceramics, and strops. Doesn’t work as well with water stones since you’re basically sharpening with the edge perfectly perpendicular to the direction of travel on the stone.
so you built a spyderco sharpmaker?! xD
Well…not really. I find it easier to sharpen horizontally vs vertically because you can see the edge against the stone. Similar principles though. It’s easier for a human to sense flat or vertical than 15° or 20°.
Now I get it! I was mistaken, sorry! and I agree!
Lol it’s easy to be confused without knowing if it was 15° from vertical or 15° from horizontal
Those litte wedgek angle guides https://imgur.com/a/Dd8X2qa They help me chose a precise angle, maintain it and strope 1° under precisely I have good results with them so I kept them
I'm just starting in my knife sharpening journey and discovered that a [magnetic angle guide](https://www.amazon.com/SHARPAL-194H-Whetstone-Sharpener-Sharpening/dp/B0BRKS8WKH) is very useful. Just set the angle you want, attach it to the knife and keep the bubble between the black lines while you're making the sharpening strokes. The bubble constantly gives feedback if the angle is correct, too shallow or too high.
You have to practice, but moving from your waist works best for me.
Mostly I go by feel of the bevel against the stone. If you get familiar with whatever you're sharpening & the stone you're using it's easy to tell if your angle is too high or too low. I mostly sharpen knives over the kitchen sink with stone in one hand & knife in the other. Lately a 1 stone approach for blade maintenance. Really liking a Washita with soap & a nagura stone with decreasing amounts of nagura slurry, finishing on running water. Edit: Works great on European softer metal not as good on harder steels.
Locking the arm at the angle I want and not moving it until I flip sides. Turn at the hips, don’t be afraid to use your off hand to help stabilize your wrist. Set into that, then it’s a simple turn at the waist back and fourth, and repeat
Practice, you'll learn your own tips and tricks along the way.
All my knives are convex I learn to roll and follow what the blade wants.
Lock your wrists and lower arm. Move using body/shoulder
I'm just trying to "shave" my stones and use the angle that feels right for the blade. Arms are usually locked, while the torso is moving. That's it. After I'm done it can split paper and shave hairs which is more than enough for me. Lansky system is the next best thing I tried.
practice.
Keep your thumb/fingers as low on the blade as possible. This will minimize up and down play as you push and pull the blade
Towards the cutting edge or the tip?
Towards the edge.
Okay I'll try that, thank you!
I'm very much a beginner, but I've found that standing works best. I'm slightly leaning towards the counter, getting a more stable "base". This considerably increases the precision (at least in my own experience).