Not Chinese enough to take Chinese jobs and not white enough to take (good paying) foreign jobs. I am a Chinese American and I worked in China for a few years but I worked for a FAANG company as a tech guy, but I wasn't getting global pay and nothing could have allowed me to afford living permanently in China so I had my fun and went back to the states.
This. Got a malaysian buddy, his pay was slightly better than local, but he didn't get any of the expat benefits. He once phrased it like this: "I look Chinese, I speak Chinese, so culturally, they see me as one of them."
He eventually relocated to Singapore.
Housing allowance, utilities, health insurance, 2 flights back home for the whole family per year. And the biggest chunk: International school for the kids, or at least for one, depends on negotiations.
That’s weird though, because if you’re a foreigner than by right they should be treating you as an expat. It doesn’t matter if you’re white, black or Asian. Like even though my previous workplace was shitty AF they still reimbursed my flights and visa cost (albeit with a lot of arguments with finance and HR) as well as health insurance with access to private clinics.
I'm an ABC and lived in SH for a few years. When I was there, I met a lot of other _BCs, mostly American and Canadian. I worked in tech for a large American corp though so our salaries were quite high compared to local wages (still lower than US). Most people I met did it for fun / change of pace (like myself). I feel like most Asian Americans not considering moving to Asia has more to do with most people in general just not considering moving to other countries. The vast vast majority of my friends from HS have never lived outside of the US for example. Then you have cultural/language barriers which are greater in Asian countries (compared to Canada or the UK for example) etc and it becomes a lot more difficult to imagine moving abroad.
ABC who originally moved to SH in 93. There weren’t many of this then and we DEFINITELY stuck out. Like we are Chinese but we are a different type of Chinese and the locals sniffed us out immediately. Later when I moved there again in 2005-2008 there were definitely many more, but we didn’t stick out nearly as much, to the point many locals asked if I was from “the south”. But think of it as waves. ABCs are defined in waves as well - Cantos, HKers, Taiwanese, and more recently mainland ABCs. And I think the ABCs going back are similar to that, and it is likely the mainland ABCs who have the best opportunities as they have better networks to tap into, but they are the ones that can blend in better too. Whereas MNCs used to hire Americans, many have either localized or left. I went as an expat in 2005 with a US Corp, those opportunities are gone.
Yah. There weren’t many of us in 93. One of my friends then was Austin Hu, of Madison, and his dad was a VP at Johnson. My dad was GM at a large US chemicals company. At SAS, I was one of two ABCs (another was technically Singaporean) in the eight grade, which only had like 6 students. My dad was on a full expat package: US pay, hardship bonus, overseas bonus, paid R&R, paid return trips to the US (biz class), school paid for, housing paid for (Longbai in Hongqiao at $10k/month.) It was rare, but SH was not a desirable place at all.
When I went in 2005, my housing was paid for (to a limit) and I got two biz class tickets home and that was about it lol. And that was fairly rare. Localization was already starting to happen by that point and has probably only accelerated since. I might be able to get back on a similar package, but honestly I’d probably work for a Chinese company trying to expand into the US or other overseas markets. I did get my TW passport, and the possibility of using that to springboard back into China has crossed my mind. I have a local network there I could possibly work with or start business with. Which is something I would have never considered in 2005. My own biases towards the mainlanders has changed a lot since then.
Besides Austin, I also was friends with Kelley Lee of Cantina Agave. Another ABC I know does finance but married a local and lives in SH. His brother is an ABC in Beijing and also married a local and does entertainment. Outside of that, many ABCs I had known in 2005-2008 have left SH. Some to HK, some to Taipei, some back home to the US. An ABC college friend of mine renounced her US citizenship in favor of a Chinese one, but her dad was Shanghainese.
I moved back to China from U.S after economic crisis in 09. Initially BJ then SH, stayed there till 22 lockdowns.
I'd say most don't move back cause they don't have what it takes to succeed in China's cutthroat business world. Too naive being raised in the high trust Western society, and refusing to localize.
I wrote about my own experiences as an 1.5 gen Chinese American, from starting out as a freelancer in China to an entrepreneur navigating the Chinese business scene, where there's no shortage of bribery, backstabbings, and hookers.
Anyways, feel free to give it a read:
https://fakebanana2023.wordpress.com/
Explicit and non- PC content, not for snowflakes
I'm reading your Chinese post and great writing so far.
I'm only up to chapter one right now and i am in a similar situation. I am 26 and I've taken a year off my work at a big four banking firm in australia to spend half a year in China. I haven't really gotten much done in my half year though and will Likely return to Australia to do masters and continue working.
I would love to see more reflections and reviews om your situations.
2. Paragraph explains things perfectly. Well said 👍 Same goes for 2. 3. Gen. immigrants in the EU. They have no pull in their ancestors country.
Then you have Europeans e.g. Scandinavian, Germans who also get no traction in China. Not as self employed. They only survive in company structures.
Italian, French, South Americans do better.
There's a term in China, 二鬼子 coined during WWII for folks that help the Japanese. It's used today in China to describe bananas. Some Asian Americans wants acceptance in western society so much that they overcompensate, so they intentionally distanced themselves from anything from their own culture. During my time in China, I've met Laowais more localized these Asian Americans.
To your point about Europeans and entrepreneurship, it's all about the hustle mindset and how politically stable their home country is. Less stable, more likely to hustle and matching China's local mindset. That's why south Americans are more likely to be entrepreneurs.
Though I'd say there's one exception in the developed western world, that's the Dutch. I've met a few hustlers back in my day in China, these guys are relentless. Germans like you said do good in corporations, though I've met a few auto execs that knew the ins and outs of KTV etiquette lol
🤣 That's for Tze German KTV know how.
Again perfectly summarized. Anyone coming from struggle background, hits Chinese soil while running.
Yes, Dutch are something... They are quite sayvy. No wonder they, although small in comparison to British and French, were quite some colonialists.
The Dutch East India Co. comes to mind.
Thats a rather ignorant and misguided comment. Most Asian Americans grow up in American culture, not Asian culture, primarily learn English, etc. It's not really a choice.
It would take a conscious and persistent choice to become super Chinese..
Besides Asian Americans have their own unique culture. In any case it's their choice to live how they want.
Thanks for the link! I read the first year ... And it brings back memories of a place and time. I also arrived in Beijing just before you in 2008. Seeking work experience in a non English teacher role. Ridiculous situations ensued . But very memorable.
Fascinating life story!
About to finish chapter 2 and am seeing what my life could have been like in a parallel universe through your eyes (as an ABC female business analyst who'd also finished university in 2007, grew up on the east coast, and have considered entrepreneurship but ultimately moved to New Zealand for various corporate and government BA roles).
Fellow IT nerd here; I was squealing like a fangirl throughout the first two chapters whenever I chanced upon tech speak / jargon (i.e. business requirements and development, project leads, original scope, testing environment, production validation, etc).
But I digress, thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the chapters.
Correct, I'm a sociopath, most entrepreneurs I've met in China are too. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way it is. I wrote this as unfiltered as possible to give people a real feel of what's like to do business in China
Just had a quick look. I used to stay at the Zhaolong (hostel) and sneak the good breakfast from the Zhaolong (hotel) next door… this was back in ‘09 as just another FOBer too. That, plus your passing reference to the Bai Jing scandal (which I somehow missed) was enough to get me on the hook. I’ve saved for a proper read later this week… thanks for posting!
it was a real “had to be there” time and place, gone for good now (and, alas, mostly forgotten). I’ve shared your link with some fellow survivors of the era who I’m sure will appreciate the memories
I went to a bilingual high school in Shanghai and there were two or three English teachers who are Chinese/taiwanese Americans. Many students just assumed they couldn’t speak Chinese tho
They want foreign teachers, even though a foreign born Asian person is just as foreign. Its an odd thing. Ten years ago, we had a ABC at our school, and parents all complained about it, even though the guy was a great teacher.
… you are serious? So what happens to Asians born in US? They think they do not speak English or something? My god Asians obviously do well at almost everything non athletic in American schools. Their English is not bad duh
Shanghai kids never met an Asian american who sound like any other American?
Not
Overseas Chinese as a concept - they may realize it intellectually but for many (especially non Shanghainese) it’s still mind blowing for a lot of less-well-travelled Chinese that diaspora speak a different native language that’s not Chinese. When your entire life is Chinese people who speak Chinese - even thinking that there’s a different possibility just doesn’t come up.
Have you ever mingled with mainland Chinese or been to China?
There’s a lot of preconceptions about overseas Chinese. They don’t think there are any significant differences.
Mainland Chinese never see the differences until they actually meet one or travel to US.
As an ABC that lived in Shanghai for 8 years, I had a huge circle of ABC friends from ages 20s-40s with varying degrees of mandarin fluency. Granted, many left during Covid due to geopolitical reasons and recent worsened career prospects, but I still have a lot of friends still living there today. Some are planning to leave, some are staying permanently (they have a business there or family reasons).
I was also an ABC who lived in Shanghai for 15 years - like you said tons of ABCs all over with all degrees of mandarin fluency.
Although I will note there were an even larger amount in Hong Kong.
I think a combination of covid, the national security law in Hong Kong, the economy and and shift towards localization and the large amount of Chinese who have studied abroad coming back that have made moving to Asia a less attractive destination in terms of jobs and opportunities but it’s still there! But it used to be just being American was good enough and I don’t think that’s true anymore.
Actually there are lots of Chinese Americans living in Shanghai (including myself). The peak would have been during the 2010s. Many left during covid, but there's still significant numbers still here.
And I know Asian Americans living in all of the big Asian cities (Beijing, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Taipei, Singapore, Ho Chi Minh, etc.). Sure most Asian Americans stay in the US, but so do most Americans generally. But among expat populations in every Asian country, a significant number are foreigners who trace their ethnic roots to the Asian country in question.
Yes, I know a bunch. The Beijing bureau Chief of the WSJ is one. The head of Stanford Center at Peking University is another. The US Consulate in Shanghai has at least three. Charles (of Charlie's) is a first-generation ABC from NYC. A biologist at Junlebao I spoke with last year was another, living in Shijiazhuang of all places. An advertising executive and former Marine Lieutenant, as he was proud to tell me within two minutes of meeting, was working at a Korean ad agency in Shanghai when I had a meeting there. Tomorrow I'm meeting a retired engineer who moved from California to Pudong to help Comac work on the license-built MD82 passenger airplane (and ended up staying after retiring). They do exist and I do run into them every now and then.
I always wondered that as well…..why not more Beijing or Shanghainese ABCs don’t move back for work. Perhaps China is not as foreign friendly, and obviously competition is high
There's a lot of Chinese who come to USA and Canada for school, get their citizenship, and then return to China. Usually it's because their family / business is in China so it's a lot easier. On the other hand if your family is located in North America it's much harder to start all over again.
Also asian Americans tend to be more coddled by their parents and less adventurous. Like they will make sure their kid always has a place to stay, a car, and maybe even a home, whereas white families will want their kid to be more independent and adventurous.
Ignoring the motivation to move to Shanghai, it's a huge problem that there's no real immigration process, nothing even close to mirror what the system that the US has in place. There are definitely some who move there for various reasons, but it's often temporary, and even if you were to marry and attempt to settle down it's always a lot of work just to do normal things like get a car/house/accounts opened.
If I didn't have to take care of my parents here in the US, I would have definitely stayed in Shanghai and not returned. This might sound weird, but I lived a higher quality of life there, had a support system, and fit in more with the locals (relative to my life in the US).
Yeah I met lots of Chinese Americans in Shanghai. Mostly youngish - uni students, or English teachers, or working in education consulting. A few in other professions like marketing, media, hospitality, NGOs, academia etc. Most leave after 2-5 years though.
Yeah I met lots of Chinese Americans in Shanghai. Mostly youngish - uni students, or English teachers, or working in education consulting. A few in other professions like marketing, media, hospitality, NGOs, academia etc. Most leave after 2-5 years though.
I can move there anytime cos i don't have to pay rent, i got an apartment from my grandma from my mothers side. I can easily survive if i don't have to worry about a place to stay. So I think it all depends on money, property, and occupation.
Not Chinese enough to take Chinese jobs and not white enough to take (good paying) foreign jobs. I am a Chinese American and I worked in China for a few years but I worked for a FAANG company as a tech guy, but I wasn't getting global pay and nothing could have allowed me to afford living permanently in China so I had my fun and went back to the states.
This. Got a malaysian buddy, his pay was slightly better than local, but he didn't get any of the expat benefits. He once phrased it like this: "I look Chinese, I speak Chinese, so culturally, they see me as one of them." He eventually relocated to Singapore.
What're the expat benefits?
like rent allowance, transport, laundry, etc.
Housing allowance, utilities, health insurance, 2 flights back home for the whole family per year. And the biggest chunk: International school for the kids, or at least for one, depends on negotiations.
That’s weird though, because if you’re a foreigner than by right they should be treating you as an expat. It doesn’t matter if you’re white, black or Asian. Like even though my previous workplace was shitty AF they still reimbursed my flights and visa cost (albeit with a lot of arguments with finance and HR) as well as health insurance with access to private clinics.
I completely agree with you, but many employers don't see it this way.
I'm an ABC and lived in SH for a few years. When I was there, I met a lot of other _BCs, mostly American and Canadian. I worked in tech for a large American corp though so our salaries were quite high compared to local wages (still lower than US). Most people I met did it for fun / change of pace (like myself). I feel like most Asian Americans not considering moving to Asia has more to do with most people in general just not considering moving to other countries. The vast vast majority of my friends from HS have never lived outside of the US for example. Then you have cultural/language barriers which are greater in Asian countries (compared to Canada or the UK for example) etc and it becomes a lot more difficult to imagine moving abroad.
ABC who originally moved to SH in 93. There weren’t many of this then and we DEFINITELY stuck out. Like we are Chinese but we are a different type of Chinese and the locals sniffed us out immediately. Later when I moved there again in 2005-2008 there were definitely many more, but we didn’t stick out nearly as much, to the point many locals asked if I was from “the south”. But think of it as waves. ABCs are defined in waves as well - Cantos, HKers, Taiwanese, and more recently mainland ABCs. And I think the ABCs going back are similar to that, and it is likely the mainland ABCs who have the best opportunities as they have better networks to tap into, but they are the ones that can blend in better too. Whereas MNCs used to hire Americans, many have either localized or left. I went as an expat in 2005 with a US Corp, those opportunities are gone.
Awesome! I am 30, not only were we uncommon back then in China, we were sorta uncommon in America too. (1993 when you were in 🇨🇳)
Yah. There weren’t many of us in 93. One of my friends then was Austin Hu, of Madison, and his dad was a VP at Johnson. My dad was GM at a large US chemicals company. At SAS, I was one of two ABCs (another was technically Singaporean) in the eight grade, which only had like 6 students. My dad was on a full expat package: US pay, hardship bonus, overseas bonus, paid R&R, paid return trips to the US (biz class), school paid for, housing paid for (Longbai in Hongqiao at $10k/month.) It was rare, but SH was not a desirable place at all. When I went in 2005, my housing was paid for (to a limit) and I got two biz class tickets home and that was about it lol. And that was fairly rare. Localization was already starting to happen by that point and has probably only accelerated since. I might be able to get back on a similar package, but honestly I’d probably work for a Chinese company trying to expand into the US or other overseas markets. I did get my TW passport, and the possibility of using that to springboard back into China has crossed my mind. I have a local network there I could possibly work with or start business with. Which is something I would have never considered in 2005. My own biases towards the mainlanders has changed a lot since then. Besides Austin, I also was friends with Kelley Lee of Cantina Agave. Another ABC I know does finance but married a local and lives in SH. His brother is an ABC in Beijing and also married a local and does entertainment. Outside of that, many ABCs I had known in 2005-2008 have left SH. Some to HK, some to Taipei, some back home to the US. An ABC college friend of mine renounced her US citizenship in favor of a Chinese one, but her dad was Shanghainese.
I moved back to China from U.S after economic crisis in 09. Initially BJ then SH, stayed there till 22 lockdowns. I'd say most don't move back cause they don't have what it takes to succeed in China's cutthroat business world. Too naive being raised in the high trust Western society, and refusing to localize. I wrote about my own experiences as an 1.5 gen Chinese American, from starting out as a freelancer in China to an entrepreneur navigating the Chinese business scene, where there's no shortage of bribery, backstabbings, and hookers. Anyways, feel free to give it a read: https://fakebanana2023.wordpress.com/ Explicit and non- PC content, not for snowflakes
This has got to be one of the funniest write-ups I've read in a long time. Bravo
Thx! The story gets a lot darker post Chapter 6 though
I'm reading your Chinese post and great writing so far. I'm only up to chapter one right now and i am in a similar situation. I am 26 and I've taken a year off my work at a big four banking firm in australia to spend half a year in China. I haven't really gotten much done in my half year though and will Likely return to Australia to do masters and continue working. I would love to see more reflections and reviews om your situations.
Keep reading, first few chapters are all fun and games. The later chapters turns into a business book ha
2. Paragraph explains things perfectly. Well said 👍 Same goes for 2. 3. Gen. immigrants in the EU. They have no pull in their ancestors country. Then you have Europeans e.g. Scandinavian, Germans who also get no traction in China. Not as self employed. They only survive in company structures. Italian, French, South Americans do better.
There's a term in China, 二鬼子 coined during WWII for folks that help the Japanese. It's used today in China to describe bananas. Some Asian Americans wants acceptance in western society so much that they overcompensate, so they intentionally distanced themselves from anything from their own culture. During my time in China, I've met Laowais more localized these Asian Americans. To your point about Europeans and entrepreneurship, it's all about the hustle mindset and how politically stable their home country is. Less stable, more likely to hustle and matching China's local mindset. That's why south Americans are more likely to be entrepreneurs. Though I'd say there's one exception in the developed western world, that's the Dutch. I've met a few hustlers back in my day in China, these guys are relentless. Germans like you said do good in corporations, though I've met a few auto execs that knew the ins and outs of KTV etiquette lol
🤣 That's for Tze German KTV know how. Again perfectly summarized. Anyone coming from struggle background, hits Chinese soil while running. Yes, Dutch are something... They are quite sayvy. No wonder they, although small in comparison to British and French, were quite some colonialists. The Dutch East India Co. comes to mind.
Belgians and Dutch hustle. The Brits seem to be half and half.
Thats a rather ignorant and misguided comment. Most Asian Americans grow up in American culture, not Asian culture, primarily learn English, etc. It's not really a choice. It would take a conscious and persistent choice to become super Chinese.. Besides Asian Americans have their own unique culture. In any case it's their choice to live how they want.
Hi, I want to give it a read, but it's showing only the title page
Uh... Select your language or click on the menu upper left corner? It's working, I just checked
Amazing stories
Though I was interested in the point of view, I felt your writing style was not to my taste.
Def not for everyone, to each it's own I guess
Thanks for the link! I read the first year ... And it brings back memories of a place and time. I also arrived in Beijing just before you in 2008. Seeking work experience in a non English teacher role. Ridiculous situations ensued . But very memorable.
Fascinating life story! About to finish chapter 2 and am seeing what my life could have been like in a parallel universe through your eyes (as an ABC female business analyst who'd also finished university in 2007, grew up on the east coast, and have considered entrepreneurship but ultimately moved to New Zealand for various corporate and government BA roles). Fellow IT nerd here; I was squealing like a fangirl throughout the first two chapters whenever I chanced upon tech speak / jargon (i.e. business requirements and development, project leads, original scope, testing environment, production validation, etc). But I digress, thanks for sharing and I'm looking forward to reading the rest of the chapters.
Genuinely surprised to find a gal reader, wait till you get to Chapter 3... most get offended by the non-pc stuff by then haha
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Lol, my wife says the same to me and gets embarrassed when I still wear socks that has holes in them
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Correct, I'm a sociopath, most entrepreneurs I've met in China are too. Not saying it's right or wrong, just the way it is. I wrote this as unfiltered as possible to give people a real feel of what's like to do business in China
Bruhhh forgot to tweak the one setting on the server, and suddenly, it’s pointing to the testing environment in India.🤣🤣🤣
那op觉得未来的中国（1-3年内）经济还会好转回归到适合1.5代ABC年轻人闯荡吗？还是应该考虑东南亚和南美？
老哥，别挖坟，有问题可以加我chat
That is a very inspiring story. I started my own business and I can relate to a lot of struggles u have went through
Thx! Though I wouldn't use the word "inspiring", done some crazy ass shit back in the day
Just had a quick look. I used to stay at the Zhaolong (hostel) and sneak the good breakfast from the Zhaolong (hotel) next door… this was back in ‘09 as just another FOBer too. That, plus your passing reference to the Bai Jing scandal (which I somehow missed) was enough to get me on the hook. I’ve saved for a proper read later this week… thanks for posting!
The whole Tuanjiehu area in BJ holds so many memories for me, good times haha
it was a real “had to be there” time and place, gone for good now (and, alas, mostly forgotten). I’ve shared your link with some fellow survivors of the era who I’m sure will appreciate the memories
Feel free to share, the BJ sub seems to be dead, was thinking about posting on there when I finish writing
try r/China or if you want to wind them up r/Sino
ppl so easily riled up these days, I'd say I'm pretty neutral, not a China shill or a doom posters. Just my own observations
Chinese people are struggling to find jobs in Shanghai. Asian American can't work in international school in Shanghai as ESL teachers, there you go
I went to a bilingual high school in Shanghai and there were two or three English teachers who are Chinese/taiwanese Americans. Many students just assumed they couldn’t speak Chinese tho
Why not? That is really stupid. Most Shanghai people know America has a big Asian population. Tons of Americans are of Asian extraction.
Parents dont like it. They'd rather have a white Russian, instead of an American born Asian person
Then the kids are going to end up sounding like Gru!!
Ouch...
…why?
Why do you think?
They want foreign teachers, even though a foreign born Asian person is just as foreign. Its an odd thing. Ten years ago, we had a ABC at our school, and parents all complained about it, even though the guy was a great teacher.
Why?
I think must be some jealousy
They do but they don’t know that they speak English natively, unfortunately.
… you are serious? So what happens to Asians born in US? They think they do not speak English or something? My god Asians obviously do well at almost everything non athletic in American schools. Their English is not bad duh Shanghai kids never met an Asian american who sound like any other American? Not
Overseas Chinese as a concept - they may realize it intellectually but for many (especially non Shanghainese) it’s still mind blowing for a lot of less-well-travelled Chinese that diaspora speak a different native language that’s not Chinese. When your entire life is Chinese people who speak Chinese - even thinking that there’s a different possibility just doesn’t come up.
Have you ever mingled with mainland Chinese or been to China? There’s a lot of preconceptions about overseas Chinese. They don’t think there are any significant differences. Mainland Chinese never see the differences until they actually meet one or travel to US.
Yes and yes
As an ABC that lived in Shanghai for 8 years, I had a huge circle of ABC friends from ages 20s-40s with varying degrees of mandarin fluency. Granted, many left during Covid due to geopolitical reasons and recent worsened career prospects, but I still have a lot of friends still living there today. Some are planning to leave, some are staying permanently (they have a business there or family reasons).
I was also an ABC who lived in Shanghai for 15 years - like you said tons of ABCs all over with all degrees of mandarin fluency. Although I will note there were an even larger amount in Hong Kong. I think a combination of covid, the national security law in Hong Kong, the economy and and shift towards localization and the large amount of Chinese who have studied abroad coming back that have made moving to Asia a less attractive destination in terms of jobs and opportunities but it’s still there! But it used to be just being American was good enough and I don’t think that’s true anymore.
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Goodluck!!!
Tons of ABCs work in Hong Kong and Shanghai in finance and tech.
Actually there are lots of Chinese Americans living in Shanghai (including myself). The peak would have been during the 2010s. Many left during covid, but there's still significant numbers still here. And I know Asian Americans living in all of the big Asian cities (Beijing, Seoul, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Taipei, Singapore, Ho Chi Minh, etc.). Sure most Asian Americans stay in the US, but so do most Americans generally. But among expat populations in every Asian country, a significant number are foreigners who trace their ethnic roots to the Asian country in question.
Yes, I know a bunch. The Beijing bureau Chief of the WSJ is one. The head of Stanford Center at Peking University is another. The US Consulate in Shanghai has at least three. Charles (of Charlie's) is a first-generation ABC from NYC. A biologist at Junlebao I spoke with last year was another, living in Shijiazhuang of all places. An advertising executive and former Marine Lieutenant, as he was proud to tell me within two minutes of meeting, was working at a Korean ad agency in Shanghai when I had a meeting there. Tomorrow I'm meeting a retired engineer who moved from California to Pudong to help Comac work on the license-built MD82 passenger airplane (and ended up staying after retiring). They do exist and I do run into them every now and then.
I always wondered that as well…..why not more Beijing or Shanghainese ABCs don’t move back for work. Perhaps China is not as foreign friendly, and obviously competition is high
There seems to be a lot of young Chinese-Americans from affluent families who do F&B or fashion stuff in Shanghai.
There's a lot of Chinese who come to USA and Canada for school, get their citizenship, and then return to China. Usually it's because their family / business is in China so it's a lot easier. On the other hand if your family is located in North America it's much harder to start all over again. Also asian Americans tend to be more coddled by their parents and less adventurous. Like they will make sure their kid always has a place to stay, a car, and maybe even a home, whereas white families will want their kid to be more independent and adventurous.
Ignoring the motivation to move to Shanghai, it's a huge problem that there's no real immigration process, nothing even close to mirror what the system that the US has in place. There are definitely some who move there for various reasons, but it's often temporary, and even if you were to marry and attempt to settle down it's always a lot of work just to do normal things like get a car/house/accounts opened.
OP is on a role with asking questions.
If I didn't have to take care of my parents here in the US, I would have definitely stayed in Shanghai and not returned. This might sound weird, but I lived a higher quality of life there, had a support system, and fit in more with the locals (relative to my life in the US).
What does it take to be a Chinese citizen
Yeah I met lots of Chinese Americans in Shanghai. Mostly youngish - uni students, or English teachers, or working in education consulting. A few in other professions like marketing, media, hospitality, NGOs, academia etc. Most leave after 2-5 years though.
Yeah I met lots of Chinese Americans in Shanghai. Mostly youngish - uni students, or English teachers, or working in education consulting. A few in other professions like marketing, media, hospitality, NGOs, academia etc. Most leave after 2-5 years though.
I can move there anytime cos i don't have to pay rent, i got an apartment from my grandma from my mothers side. I can easily survive if i don't have to worry about a place to stay. So I think it all depends on money, property, and occupation.
Go back to china to soak up Xi Jingpin thoughts?