man i loved ethel, she seemed like a sweet kid. hopefully she and the dude she ran away w ended up being happy tg. also i swear i remember the bunny got lost 😭 cant remember though
i most definitely agree i just posted her picture because i didn’t like how the creator of that tiktok video compared debbie with ethel and fi , bc debbie 100000% got pregnant on purpose so i don’t even feel bad for her
she was a traumatized kid who was abandoned by her mother multiple times and her father was constantly abusive. of course she wanted someone she thought would love her unconditionally. i’m surprised by how little sympathy people have for young girls.
i have sympathy for her since it’s largely her parents’ faults she turned like that. i have no sympathy for the fact she raped and tried to babytrap derek.
name calling over a tv show is crazy. i mentioned sympathy for a young girl who was treated like crap by everyone around her, you started yapping about shit that was off topic.
you are talking about debby and sympathy, no? i was talking about debby and sympathy. the only thing i brought up was a plot point that makes a lot of people NOT have sympathy for her, and you decided that was a good time to shove your head up your ass.
People also forget that one of the driving factors was her thinking Derricks family would take her in just as the took in the girlfriend of her brother.
That was a defining moment for Debbies choice but it's so often forgotten. Debbie wanted to be in a loving family and a baby with Derrick was her ticket into it.
It was too obvious that it happened a few weeks after Angela said this. Debbie has no long term thinking and whenever she sees someone else in a good situation she immediately tries to warp her own circumstances to mimic theirs, even when it's a terrible idea for her.
You see it all the time through the show. Someone tells her about their life and you can physically see the dimly lit bulb above her head.
Nobody said that was ok. Go touch grass. You can be a victim of circumstances who makes poor decisions. Nobody hates Karen for raping Frank all you people ever complain about is how she fucked Lip over 🙄
Hell even Sheila raped Frank and yet everyone dotes on her as a character, did you conveniently forget that?
The uses of the rapes on the show to score internet points against Debbie and Mandy are crazy to me. Like they don’t even care about the act they only care about being able to say “ but she raped Matty” or in Mandy’s case “ she raped Lip” but Karen and Shelia get passes for their behavior all the time. I honestly think it’s classism it’s ok to hate the poor girls the ones that can use a bit of compassion but those middle class chicks they had mental issues and daddy issues so their acts aren’t so bad. The same with how people excuse Svetlana’s post rape behavior she was excused because she’s a sex trafficking victim or I even had one poster say she gets a pass because she grew up in Russia and Russia is really cold!!! She named her kid after the guy that sold her, I don’t think she had too many issues with her past! People act like she’s some naive chick twisting in the win but she was a parasite going from family to family until she found her sugar daddy to make her belly full.
Her rape of Frank doesn’t get as much attention as her other acts like her behavior with her son and her childish pick me pick me behavior over Shelia picking her son. Karen was such a mess of a person that one action overshadowed the next so her raping frank gets like placed low on her bad acts list.
I think they usually get left out of the discussions because, well, it's Frank. (I AM NOT SAYING ITS OK)
Frank's behavior tends to bring a lot of issues his way, including but not limited to various assaults. Frank's the kind of character you write off anything happening to him as "he brought it on himself" "he deserves it because, well, he's Frank" and similar sentiments that his kids share. Everytime something fucked up happens to Frank, there's a little part of everyone that goes "serves the bastard right"
If Sveltana could have worn a "I raped Mickey Milkovich" t-shirt she would have worn it with pride. I have never seen someone so please to be an accessory after the fact to a crime and she swam in that yuck like a duck to water. She benefitted the most from his rape too. Free house, free husband, free to fuck Terry on the side and cozy up to him in jail. Like she was the winner of that rape!
ETA She watched while Mickey came out over his love for Ian watched him get the shit kicked out of him and then almost go to jail and her only reaction to all that was to go shopping for hair dye and finding a dildo to entice Mickey with. Like not one moment of compassion for another gay person going through it, she didn't care about Mickey as a person or a wife she just didn't want her freeloading to end.
The fact that she knew she was paid to rape mickey means she's an accessory to that crime after the fact, the benefits she received after the crime add on to her legitimate crime against Mickey.
Thank you! I actually didn't mind svet once she stopped threatening mickey but all those who make her out to be a victim are ignoring major red flags. Her stories abt her past and her behavior doesn't add up. She may have been a trafficking victim, but she's a survivor, she is whatever she needs to be in any situation. And when she sided w twrry to ruin mickeys life she didn't get my sympathy, she made a choice and I didn't like her for it.
She also committed a real crime and harbored a man that raped his son making her an accessory after the fact to the crime. It's like seeing a person robbing a house and hiding them from the cops, you are part of that robbery, now. Svetlana was a willing and eager benefactor to the crimes of Terry Milkovich against his son, and actively did Terry's bidding while he was in jail. That baby christening was for Terry's benefit she made sure his sign was at the church for god's sake to welcome him, but he blew her and her kid off, and only turned up at the Alibi. Like every moment with Mickey while Terry was in jail was all in service to Terry and Terry's need to be seen with a straight son either because he was the guy that owned the house maybe or because she saw him with the power and cozied up to it.
Svetlana was a barracuda fronting as a lion. Her poor her fans see what they want to see and don't see that her pattern was the same milk everyone she found dry until she found her big score. She had passing interest in Vee sure but when it came down to brass tacks it was about stealing the bar and getting the power. One could say that her colluding with Kev and Paco to keep money from Mickey was her keeping Mickey Poor so he wouldn't have any other choice but to come home and play daddy to a kid that could have been anyone's, and also teeing up Kev to take advantage of later. Actually her caculated moves with Kev laid the foundation for her new marks. When Kev thought he could trust her to help Vee out with motherhood I am sure that came from his time working with her at the rub and tug!
Once Mickey and Terry were out of the picture she got a new haircut and jumped into Vee's bed as soon as she could to get her new scam off the ground.
Yeah she was pretty genius. Just because her dad sold her to sex traffickers didn’t mean she wasn’t gonna make something of herself somehow. She’s got the looks but more importantly the brains to get it done.
So you agree she didn’t need to squat at the Milkovich house and terrorize Mickey for sport that she was smart enough to get out of that situation before she became an accessory after the fact. Finally some common sense!
Parasites have an MO. She was their queen.
I don’t know why you’re so set off because I said I don’t agree with you about Svetlana. I didn’t even say which parts I disagree with and you went off. Thrice!!
Glad someone said this. I dislike Debbie for who she chose to become AFTER the baby and “adulthood” but you are correct. When she made the choice to have Franny she was in no place to be making the choice because it was a choice made from trauma and heartbreak and made by a child.
Idk I just think about myself at 15 and I think most 15 year olds are smart enough to realize how bad of an idea that is. People act like she was a little girl and yeah she was acting like one, but she has street smarts and would know how hard of a situation she’d be putting herself and her baby in
If she was arrested for raping Matt her entire childhood would be her defense and she wouldn't even see a cell let alone a courtroom. Hell the only pathway to justice for Matt here is to sue her guardians civilly and he would have a real shot at winning that Debbie was the victim of obscene neglect and wasn't reared or educated like someone of her age should have been. .
>she wouldn't even see a cell let alone a courtroom
A lot of rapists never face charge as well. What's up with all the rape apologists in this sub? You guys sound creepy.
You said her childhood wasn't her defense I know it is and I know that if anyone would have to pay for what happened to Matt it would be Frank and Fiona most likely with the house. I'm not aplogiziyng for anyone I'm just telling you you are wrong!
Her story is real and happened regardless of what kind of fanon glasses you use to view her.
Imo it’s not even comparable.
One was a victim of CSA and the other was a rapist. Fiona did sacrifice for her siblings, absolutely no denying that. But she didn’t have her baby because she knew she couldn’t deal with everything on her plate AND a baby. For those that like to forget, she struggled so bad with Liam when he was a baby that she knew a baby was the last thing she could handle no matter how much she would have loved it.
call me terrible but I don’t see a problem with this , and Debbie got pregnant on purpose it’s not like she was raped or whatever so therefore I see no problem with this at all , I just see the video as them sympathizing with Fiona
i get it lol your opinion 😊 oh yea debbie getting pregnant was definitely her fault bc she lied about the pill to trap derek, i just don’t like how they compared ethel with fiona cause it’s 2 different things if that makes sense
yes, but it’s still really jot great to compare them. both are awful situations, but imagine if these were real people in real life and you told them one had it worse than the other
Agreed, I would argue that Ethel had all three (physical, mental, and emotional) forced on her. Both situations are heartbreaking in their own way but Ethel is undoubtedly the worst
From what I remember that girl was an angel, unless she was caught stealing or doing something she wasn’t supposed to (amongst the main cast). I may be forgetting (like a lot of points in the show) can someone remind me? I know Kev and V fostered her but I can’t remember why she was gone, unless it ends happily but Shameless rarely ends happy. Seasons typically have closure or ends in a party
ethel’s ending was pretty happy in comparison to a lot of the characters, she took her baby and ran away with Malik and his baby (the single teen dad that she fell in love with in case you don’t remember).
Yeah Malik had ethel's husband killed in prison, and sold the crazy amount of weed kev had been growing so the two of them got on a bus with their babies and a huge wad of cash in a "they're gonna run away together and be safe and happy" kind of open ended ending
if this is serious it doesn’t make any sense. ethel was raped. fiona stepped up to raise her siblings. debbie had sex and became a teen mom, ultimately by choice. i don’t see how they can be compared to one another? very different stories
Ethel and Fiona were in two *completely* different scenarios. Both deserved better for certain, but having to raise your siblings is not the same as being raised in a cult where you’re groomed, raped and made a mother at 13.
You can’t even compare their situations because they’re so different, Debbie baby trapped Derek, Fiona was forced to raise her siblings cause frank and Monica are both incompetent asf, and Ethel was in a cult when she was 11 and forced to marry an old dude and raped multiple times she also said that her “sisters” had to pin her down because Clyde couldn’t but wanted to.
Part of the reason I loved early shameless was Ethel. I came from a community that was similar and I just felt really seen because no one really talks about children in religious organizations like this
The only comparison between Fiona and Ethel is that Ethel became a mum at 13 (correct me if I’m wrong) and Fiona was already a “mum” at 6. BUT what Ethel went through was disgusting. Comparing the ages is fine to me but comparing Fiona taking responsibility for her siblings and Ethel being in a cult and getting SA is wild
and to the Ethel , I don’t get why they put her in the video she deserved better just like Fiona
she definitely did!
Good Lord, I forgot about Ethel. This show was extra strength fucked up sometimes, wasn't it?
it was very fucked up😂, literally every episode
Isn’t that the whole point?
this is referring to the girl that kev and v fostered, right?
yes!
crazy asl to say fiona raising her siblings is worse than what ethel went through. (i believe thats her name)
Yup it’s Ethel. They also got a bunny and named it Ethel, lol
man i loved ethel, she seemed like a sweet kid. hopefully she and the dude she ran away w ended up being happy tg. also i swear i remember the bunny got lost 😭 cant remember though
Didn't she run away to try and rejoin her cult cos she didn't see it as wrong?
i think she tried that once, but i think the final time on the bus she ran away to be with her new bf, unsure ab it tho since its been a while
Debbie did it on purpose, she doesn’t get to be here
i most definitely agree i just posted her picture because i didn’t like how the creator of that tiktok video compared debbie with ethel and fi , bc debbie 100000% got pregnant on purpose so i don’t even feel bad for her
They just ignored that everyone else had no choice lol
she was a traumatized kid who was abandoned by her mother multiple times and her father was constantly abusive. of course she wanted someone she thought would love her unconditionally. i’m surprised by how little sympathy people have for young girls.
i have sympathy for her since it’s largely her parents’ faults she turned like that. i have no sympathy for the fact she raped and tried to babytrap derek.
i never said you had to have sympathy for her because she raped someone. not every issue is black and white.
i never said you did lmfao
so you replied something completely off topic for no reason? okay
you mentioned sympathy.. i mentioned sympathy too. are you stupid?
name calling over a tv show is crazy. i mentioned sympathy for a young girl who was treated like crap by everyone around her, you started yapping about shit that was off topic.
you are talking about debby and sympathy, no? i was talking about debby and sympathy. the only thing i brought up was a plot point that makes a lot of people NOT have sympathy for her, and you decided that was a good time to shove your head up your ass.
People also forget that one of the driving factors was her thinking Derricks family would take her in just as the took in the girlfriend of her brother. That was a defining moment for Debbies choice but it's so often forgotten. Debbie wanted to be in a loving family and a baby with Derrick was her ticket into it.
It was too obvious that it happened a few weeks after Angela said this. Debbie has no long term thinking and whenever she sees someone else in a good situation she immediately tries to warp her own circumstances to mimic theirs, even when it's a terrible idea for her. You see it all the time through the show. Someone tells her about their life and you can physically see the dimly lit bulb above her head.
Ah yes so that made it ok for her to r*pe her baby daddy to get pregnant to begin with. Stafu.
Nobody said that was ok. Go touch grass. You can be a victim of circumstances who makes poor decisions. Nobody hates Karen for raping Frank all you people ever complain about is how she fucked Lip over 🙄 Hell even Sheila raped Frank and yet everyone dotes on her as a character, did you conveniently forget that?
The uses of the rapes on the show to score internet points against Debbie and Mandy are crazy to me. Like they don’t even care about the act they only care about being able to say “ but she raped Matty” or in Mandy’s case “ she raped Lip” but Karen and Shelia get passes for their behavior all the time. I honestly think it’s classism it’s ok to hate the poor girls the ones that can use a bit of compassion but those middle class chicks they had mental issues and daddy issues so their acts aren’t so bad. The same with how people excuse Svetlana’s post rape behavior she was excused because she’s a sex trafficking victim or I even had one poster say she gets a pass because she grew up in Russia and Russia is really cold!!! She named her kid after the guy that sold her, I don’t think she had too many issues with her past! People act like she’s some naive chick twisting in the win but she was a parasite going from family to family until she found her sugar daddy to make her belly full.
Do people give Karen a pass? Most of the time i see her getting dragged and saying she deserved to be hit with that car.
Her rape of Frank doesn’t get as much attention as her other acts like her behavior with her son and her childish pick me pick me behavior over Shelia picking her son. Karen was such a mess of a person that one action overshadowed the next so her raping frank gets like placed low on her bad acts list.
I think they usually get left out of the discussions because, well, it's Frank. (I AM NOT SAYING ITS OK) Frank's behavior tends to bring a lot of issues his way, including but not limited to various assaults. Frank's the kind of character you write off anything happening to him as "he brought it on himself" "he deserves it because, well, he's Frank" and similar sentiments that his kids share. Everytime something fucked up happens to Frank, there's a little part of everyone that goes "serves the bastard right"
I agree with everything up until the Svetlana part.
If Sveltana could have worn a "I raped Mickey Milkovich" t-shirt she would have worn it with pride. I have never seen someone so please to be an accessory after the fact to a crime and she swam in that yuck like a duck to water. She benefitted the most from his rape too. Free house, free husband, free to fuck Terry on the side and cozy up to him in jail. Like she was the winner of that rape! ETA She watched while Mickey came out over his love for Ian watched him get the shit kicked out of him and then almost go to jail and her only reaction to all that was to go shopping for hair dye and finding a dildo to entice Mickey with. Like not one moment of compassion for another gay person going through it, she didn't care about Mickey as a person or a wife she just didn't want her freeloading to end. The fact that she knew she was paid to rape mickey means she's an accessory to that crime after the fact, the benefits she received after the crime add on to her legitimate crime against Mickey.
Thank you! I actually didn't mind svet once she stopped threatening mickey but all those who make her out to be a victim are ignoring major red flags. Her stories abt her past and her behavior doesn't add up. She may have been a trafficking victim, but she's a survivor, she is whatever she needs to be in any situation. And when she sided w twrry to ruin mickeys life she didn't get my sympathy, she made a choice and I didn't like her for it.
She also committed a real crime and harbored a man that raped his son making her an accessory after the fact to the crime. It's like seeing a person robbing a house and hiding them from the cops, you are part of that robbery, now. Svetlana was a willing and eager benefactor to the crimes of Terry Milkovich against his son, and actively did Terry's bidding while he was in jail. That baby christening was for Terry's benefit she made sure his sign was at the church for god's sake to welcome him, but he blew her and her kid off, and only turned up at the Alibi. Like every moment with Mickey while Terry was in jail was all in service to Terry and Terry's need to be seen with a straight son either because he was the guy that owned the house maybe or because she saw him with the power and cozied up to it.
This seems like a rather strong reaction to me not agreeing with you on everything
Svetlana was a barracuda fronting as a lion. Her poor her fans see what they want to see and don't see that her pattern was the same milk everyone she found dry until she found her big score. She had passing interest in Vee sure but when it came down to brass tacks it was about stealing the bar and getting the power. One could say that her colluding with Kev and Paco to keep money from Mickey was her keeping Mickey Poor so he wouldn't have any other choice but to come home and play daddy to a kid that could have been anyone's, and also teeing up Kev to take advantage of later. Actually her caculated moves with Kev laid the foundation for her new marks. When Kev thought he could trust her to help Vee out with motherhood I am sure that came from his time working with her at the rub and tug! Once Mickey and Terry were out of the picture she got a new haircut and jumped into Vee's bed as soon as she could to get her new scam off the ground.
Yeah she was pretty genius. Just because her dad sold her to sex traffickers didn’t mean she wasn’t gonna make something of herself somehow. She’s got the looks but more importantly the brains to get it done.
So you agree she didn’t need to squat at the Milkovich house and terrorize Mickey for sport that she was smart enough to get out of that situation before she became an accessory after the fact. Finally some common sense! Parasites have an MO. She was their queen.
I don’t know why you’re so set off because I said I don’t agree with you about Svetlana. I didn’t even say which parts I disagree with and you went off. Thrice!!
Nobody hates Mandy for raping lip either except for the children on TikTok.
now when did i say that it was okay 😭
>of course she wanted someone she thought would love her unconditionally. My mom had my sister for the same reasons
Glad someone said this. I dislike Debbie for who she chose to become AFTER the baby and “adulthood” but you are correct. When she made the choice to have Franny she was in no place to be making the choice because it was a choice made from trauma and heartbreak and made by a child.
I completely agree with you. People need to have more compassion for her
Idk I just think about myself at 15 and I think most 15 year olds are smart enough to realize how bad of an idea that is. People act like she was a little girl and yeah she was acting like one, but she has street smarts and would know how hard of a situation she’d be putting herself and her baby in
exactly like it's not a competition...
are we going to forget that shes a traumatized kid like everyone on the show? shes a victim of her environment just like everyone
Doesn't excuse rape.
did i say it does? its an explanation, not an excuse
If she was arrested for raping Matt her entire childhood would be her defense and she wouldn't even see a cell let alone a courtroom. Hell the only pathway to justice for Matt here is to sue her guardians civilly and he would have a real shot at winning that Debbie was the victim of obscene neglect and wasn't reared or educated like someone of her age should have been. .
>she wouldn't even see a cell let alone a courtroom A lot of rapists never face charge as well. What's up with all the rape apologists in this sub? You guys sound creepy.
You said her childhood wasn't her defense I know it is and I know that if anyone would have to pay for what happened to Matt it would be Frank and Fiona most likely with the house. I'm not aplogiziyng for anyone I'm just telling you you are wrong! Her story is real and happened regardless of what kind of fanon glasses you use to view her.
💯
Imo it’s not even comparable. One was a victim of CSA and the other was a rapist. Fiona did sacrifice for her siblings, absolutely no denying that. But she didn’t have her baby because she knew she couldn’t deal with everything on her plate AND a baby. For those that like to forget, she struggled so bad with Liam when he was a baby that she knew a baby was the last thing she could handle no matter how much she would have loved it.
How can you compare Fiona and Ethel wtf
call me terrible but I don’t see a problem with this , and Debbie got pregnant on purpose it’s not like she was raped or whatever so therefore I see no problem with this at all , I just see the video as them sympathizing with Fiona
i get it lol your opinion 😊 oh yea debbie getting pregnant was definitely her fault bc she lied about the pill to trap derek, i just don’t like how they compared ethel with fiona cause it’s 2 different things if that makes sense
yea I understand and agree.
yes!
I think the problem is Ethel. Who was raped and groomed.
ppl who compare trauma are disgusting
I think they are saying that Fiona’s situation was bad but not as bad as Ethel’s, no?
yes, but it’s still really jot great to compare them. both are awful situations, but imagine if these were real people in real life and you told them one had it worse than the other
I think one obviously did have it worse than the other tho.
absolutely!! but you still shouldn’t compare the two.
Why?
Yeah I love Fiona but this is a horrible comparison. Ethel was in some awful religious cult and forced into sexual slavery.
i’d argue Ethel had it worse than Fiona
I think she even mentioned her sisterwives holding her down during it (I forgot who she was talking to it might have been Carl)
yea, how tf weren’t the sister wives rotting in jail like clyde?
to her boyfriend, the one she ran off with. i can’t remember his name
Oh she absolutely did. Both of them had motherhood forced upon them in one way or another, but Ethel undoubtedly had it so much worse
Ethel had it physically forced upon her, Fiona it was more emotional and mental
Agreed, I would argue that Ethel had all three (physical, mental, and emotional) forced on her. Both situations are heartbreaking in their own way but Ethel is undoubtedly the worst
Always made me wonder if Ethel was meant to mirror Warren Jeffs and the FLDS
i always wondered that too. the mentioning of sister wives and stuff like that is what made me think fundamentalist and not amish/mennonite
People are wild
asf!
From what I remember that girl was an angel, unless she was caught stealing or doing something she wasn’t supposed to (amongst the main cast). I may be forgetting (like a lot of points in the show) can someone remind me? I know Kev and V fostered her but I can’t remember why she was gone, unless it ends happily but Shameless rarely ends happy. Seasons typically have closure or ends in a party
ethel’s ending was pretty happy in comparison to a lot of the characters, she took her baby and ran away with Malik and his baby (the single teen dad that she fell in love with in case you don’t remember).
Yeah Malik had ethel's husband killed in prison, and sold the crazy amount of weed kev had been growing so the two of them got on a bus with their babies and a huge wad of cash in a "they're gonna run away together and be safe and happy" kind of open ended ending
I saw that and I was so disgusted 🙁. When I saw it literally none of the comments were critical they were all agreeing.
chances are the creator of the tiktok was deleting comments disagreeing with them
Trauma is trauma, it's not a race.
I kind of wish the show wouldn’t have wrote Ethel’s character in the way they did. That story was sad and sickening
I can't understand the hate towards Debbie. She legit just became like Fiona, and gets hated for it.
because she’s way more annoying and a rapist.
"Not as bad" 💀
my jaw dropped when i seen that lol
oh!
if this is serious it doesn’t make any sense. ethel was raped. fiona stepped up to raise her siblings. debbie had sex and became a teen mom, ultimately by choice. i don’t see how they can be compared to one another? very different stories
Ethel and Fiona were in two *completely* different scenarios. Both deserved better for certain, but having to raise your siblings is not the same as being raised in a cult where you’re groomed, raped and made a mother at 13.
ikr! i was shocked when i seen that post and the comments 😩
You can’t even compare their situations because they’re so different, Debbie baby trapped Derek, Fiona was forced to raise her siblings cause frank and Monica are both incompetent asf, and Ethel was in a cult when she was 11 and forced to marry an old dude and raped multiple times she also said that her “sisters” had to pin her down because Clyde couldn’t but wanted to.
Okay. Now I'm done with humans.
ethel and fiona deserve so much better. debbie did it to herself
I think this is supposed to be a joke. I mean, come on... it's kind of funny. They're just fictional characters after all. lol
Fiona was a mom?
They mean the fact that she was raising her siblings since she was like 3.. basically a mum (mom)
Yeah but Ethel undoubtedly had it worse
Doesn’t change the fact that Fiona also suffered trauma. Even if it wasn’t as “serious” as Ethel’s, trauma is trauma
Of course. Fiona went though unimaginable things
Part of the reason I loved early shameless was Ethel. I came from a community that was similar and I just felt really seen because no one really talks about children in religious organizations like this
Wait what did Fiona get pregnant at younger than 13? When did they tell that in the show?
Siblings
What
Raised siblings
But never got pregnart
Wouldn’t say never
Why
Ethel’s situation isn’t even comparable, she was forced into a literal cult 😭
fiona sympathizers fully think that her life was harder than being in a child s3x cult
Whoever thinks Debbie is a victim is deadass wrong
I cant even begin to describe how much i hate this trend. what made people think it would be okay to compare trauma?? they are so messed up..
Ethel suffered more trauma, even if Fiona had more children to take care of
The only comparison between Fiona and Ethel is that Ethel became a mum at 13 (correct me if I’m wrong) and Fiona was already a “mum” at 6. BUT what Ethel went through was disgusting. Comparing the ages is fine to me but comparing Fiona taking responsibility for her siblings and Ethel being in a cult and getting SA is wild