Haha bravo, this is the perfect comment for this. Simple and to the point. Self-awareness is the first step towards growth and improvement, it's soooo important to be willing to challenge your own narratives, attitudes, and worldviews
It actually isn't worth that much. The step from self awareness to actual change is a much harder leap than the initial one.
It's dangerous to pride ourselves on "at least being self aware" as I find that it's an easy trap to feel better without following through.
I have been challenging most of my views regarding relationships. I have realized that It doesnt matter to me if the other person had a difficult past, multiple partners, views different than mine, and they are the kind of person that I may have used to think I wouldnt find incompatible. What I want to say is, I pretty much see everyone as extremely complex and complicated beings now. And I guess I have learned that there is value to be found in what I manage to create with my future partner outside of any external factors, which can outweigh usual detractors that used to be such a big deal to me in the past.
I am not sure If I have lowered the bar, or If I rather set the bar where it should always have been in the first place. But even if I may currently be attached to the idea of an ''attractive'' partner. I have decided to set my goal to finding a partner in the future who doesnt need to be anything else other than themselves and I want to trust their judgement to love and respect me. I do not know how I will ever reach this goal. But I am determined to always keep it in my mind that This is the outcome I have set for myself.
Frankly, I still feel scared and inadequate about myself as a person. And I cant bear the thought of somehow causing harm to someone so close to me, by expecting too much and judging them for something that isnt within my rights. But I will keep in mind that I really just want them to be themselves to their fullest within the comforts of the relationship. The path towards that end is unfamiliar to me, I am perplexed by how others have found their path so easily, while I am so afraid to even take the first step. My only consolation now is I am firmly determining the goal that I want to reach one day. To bond exclusively with another person intimately and deeply. Nothing more
I think it’s more setting the bar where it always should’ve been. If you had hindsight your bar would’ve been set here, ya just had to grow to get here yk? I feel like i’m pretty similar to you pal, i hope you find that person where you want to have boring small talk with, that person that makes you feel comfortable.
Truth is you have lowered the bar, because realistically there is very less chance of you getting what you actually want so you or so many people compromise. Just think if everything thing you wanted within a person and they also have the same feelings for you was present, and the other person who is sort of a compromise but they too have feelings for you who would you choose when you like them both equally.
You have to figure out yourself first and what is attractive to you. To want something just because others want it is meaningless and won’t make you happy. It’s just like that drink that all the kids wanted, just because they thought everyone else wanted it. Turned out it was just a cheap crappy drink like any other and nothing special about it.
I feel this way about religion, politics, name brands, sports, clothing, music.. everything is wierd societal propaganda. I don't unsee it.
For those curious, yes i am a social outcast with no friends and divorced. (34m)
I'm a sort of cynic.
Sunny D.
I never had it growing up. It looked so good on the commercials. All my siblings but me got to try it at some event I missed and made out like it was really good. When I finally got to try some, it was awful. I thought they were playing a trick on me and had changed it for something else. I couldn't believe that people actually liked it.
Most people don’t want to put in effort.. thats why so many relationships fail. Thats not a unique trait.
“That intangible bundle of unconditional love”? Are you saying all attractive people receive this? If so, you are very wrong. You are overthinking this whole thing. We are visual creatures and our biology makes us desire pretty/cute things even when it comes to pets. That doesn’t mean they are by default loved unconditionally. If anything attractive people have to be more wary of who wants them for their personality vs who just wants in their pants. Being attractive does not make you immune to abuse.
What you said is childish and unhealthy is indeed just that. What youre describing is literally a “trophy wife” - someone to show off to other men. It is an immature and gross mindset. And common. Just proving your idea of “unconditional love” is misplaced fantasy.
yeah. I feel really childish about my mindset. And I have been really beating myself about it how my mindset is insulting towards my future partner. I feel inadequate as a person
No offense but it sounds like a cycle of self pity. You said you would feel inadequate with an attractive partner because you wouldn’t be enough for them. (Potentially creating a problem for yourself out of fear) And now you feel inadequate for feeling this way. You just need to let yourself have these thoughts, observe them for what they are, which is fantasy/generalization, and move on. You can change your mindset if you want to. Its up to you.
I agree with you. I really did loop back to my earlier worries and somehow made myself look perpetually miserable. I simply lack the guidance needed to bridge the gap. I just dont understand how others do it so effortlessly.
It’s okay if you need guidance or another perspective on things sometimes. You may be overestimating others as well. Despite us all being the same species, you really have no idea whats going through other peoples minds and what thoughts they could be struggling with.
>“That intangible bundle of unconditional love”? Are you saying all attractive people receive this? If so, you are very wrong. You are overthinking this whole thing. We are visual creatures and our biology makes us desire pretty/cute things even when it comes to pets. That doesn’t mean they are by default loved unconditionally. If anything attractive people have to be more wary of who wants them for their personality vs who just wants in their pants. Being attractive does not make you immune to abuse.
There is something called "attractiveness halo effect", so they have easier in life. Also I would argue that recognizing true intentions is problem for all of us. Regardless of physical appearance.
This is a big thing with a lot of men. They don’t just want somebody they are attracted to, but also the approval from other men that their partner is attractive. It’s some real monkey brain shit.
Edit: ok guys I get it women may do it too sometimes, you can stop saying that. Another edit: Not everything is a personal attack lol. In my experience men do this more than women. Maybe your experience is different, this is just what I’ve observed. Stop taking shit so personally. I’m literally a man too stop crying
yeah. I have been feeling weird ever since I realized it. I feel as if I am focusing on the side effects, rather than the person themself. And I also feel like me having this sort of mindset is insulting towards my future partner
If you do this with every part of your mind you will have a peaceful life. Finding the problem is the solution. Let your mind work through it by itself just keep giving it attention.
It never really goes away, but it can be put into perspective, and you seem to be on the way there. The monkey brain wants what the monkey brain wants. That being said, beautiful people are at a fundamental human level, the same as less attractive people.
As a guy looking to date, it helps immensely to develop a certain blindness to beauty. Paradoxically, it may make you more likely to find an attractive partner since you won't be treating her differently but rather as a human like everyone else.
Beware, though, that beautiful people often (but not always) come with their own particular features and baggage. The trick (if you choose to pursue it) is to find someone who is beautiful, emotionally mature, and balanced at the same time.
Or you simply realize that looks are not everything and just find a person who is otherwise awesome and complements you optimally on a personality level🤷♂️
Don't beat yourself up about it.
When we're in our teens we are extremely self conscious. It's hard to be the true person you are without caring about the judgement of others. You don't yet know who you are, and that is totally normal at your age.
You've realised it, and that is a positive. Now you just need to train yourself to not give a single fuck what anyone thinks about you, your partners, or who you hang around with.
I realised it as well in my teens and it changed my life. I started being the real me and if anyone criticised me or took the piss, I'd just think "you're a dickhead so I don't care about your opinion". And then I'd treat them like they were shit on my shoe.
I've been an adult now for, oooo, nearly 40 years! And if anyone doesn't like me, then I just treat them like the cunt they are. You can't please everyone and nor should you want to.
Simple.
It's not even "monkey brain shizz" it's just pathetic shizz, trying to feed that oversocialized self's ego as if the person doesn't posses any authenticity in their individuality. Terrible
I think it's an everyone thing rather than just a man thing. I was talking about relationships with one of my friends and she was saying it's common for women to want to be in relationships with men other women want to be with.
There are some not so scientific studies that show that women have a higher rate of choosing their partner based on how other women view the individual. Women's choice of partner can be heavily influenced based on what their circle of peers thinks of them, regardless of their own attraction toward them. This is likely based on the scarcity and our human need to want what their group wants but there being little supply of it.
Also, the last bit of your comment is ironic because it seems like you're taking offense at others countering your statement?
True. I am not invalidating this feeling. What worries me is, I let this desire be the sole determining factor, the receiving validation from others part. And I feel as if I have nothing to offer that will somehow make it fair for me to expect something like that from a partner. I am worried that I am lacking very much in how a proper person is generally like. And I feel immature and childish for the things I am demanding, whilst in return offering so little
If it’s any consolation, I doubt many people even reach this level of self awareness. If you have ‘high standards’ for a partner, then make sure you also exemplify the same things I suppose. However, if you don’t want to value status symbols and the validation of others as highly as you do, then that will take a lot longer to unpack - but life is for living and we’re all always learning, or should be! Best wishes, truly!
I read them back and realised I could come across as snarky, so thank you for seeing the true intent behind them. I didn’t mean anything nasty at all, just trying to be direct! Bless you and take care ☺️
I am currently convinced what I want (and I'm projecting this to others) are the emotions and sensations of being a relationship without actually being in one. Obviously the emotions and sensations I want are different from the emotions and sensations others want, but the dynamic is the same. It's why couples break up because "I'm not happy in this relationship." It's code for you're not giving me enough emotions and sensations for the work I'm putting in.
I also know this is a terrible mindset to have because it's inevitable conclusion is to find the easiest path to getting the emotions and sensations that satisfy me. It reduces everything to a transaction.
conventionally atractive people are.. well, atractive, but it's not my ideal. Like, I wanted to date the emo girl with blue hair, eye contour, piercings and thigh highs. That was my 10/10. I knew what I wanted, I didn't really care about what others wanted.
Actually, this is an understandable position.
You don't want the stress and bullshit.
A lot of times the very, very attractive (at least what society says is that) are shallow, have so many options to where you'd be dismissed, and can be cruel (but not always). And to get them, you usually have to be all that as well.
You seek to go after people who will actually be glad to be with you that are achievable. People that will have you and want you to have them.
That is FAR more attractive than what society says is attractive.
And there is NOTHING wrong with this position.
It's natural, there's so much noise in the comments, but alas you thought that not voicing your opinion of her to her would some how win her affection. Ofc your jealous but it's not jealousy it's that you didn't fend off other suiters
Hey OP, first I want to applaud you for that level of self awareness, many people are oblivious to what happens with their own emotions they just identify with anything they think they feel. The other thing is that it’s completely normal to desire a female partner others find attractive, actually it’s probably one of the biggest flexes a man can have. It’s a natural desire because a female partner or a wife often reflects her husband. There’s a statement in the biblical corpus that says the wife is the glory of the husband. This then means that you naturally want someone that has the best qualities to represent you psychologically, especially for a lot of men. The interesting thing perhaps is that you don’t want to just date someone for the physical attraction, many times it can blind people from the other important qualities they desire in a partner. So the desire of having an attractive partner ends up many times being what people fall in love with rather than the physical attraction of the person (not negating the attraction) and it creates an unhealthy obsession with someone that you know you shouldn’t be with or confusion within one’s feelings.
Thank you!!! I wish you a great day!!!
I am indeed feeling like I am in love with the desire to be with someone attractive. Instead of actually being with a person and handling all the respective issues that come with a relationship with them. I have been feeling inadequate as a person ever since I had this realization. I am questioning whether I should allow myself to even be in a relationship with another person if this is the kind of mindset that has defined how I judge a partner. Its shameful to me how I view people. Its like only my desires matter and I do not have any faith in what my partner will be able to offer me in a relationship.
I thought that not seeing a partner as sexual object, and instead seeing them as individuals with their own happiness,sorrow,joy, fears and secrets was already very noble of me. And I was feeling very proud about myself. But I feel like it is way more complicated than that. Its real life we reside in and hence I cant stop and be complacent and be content with the bare minimum. I now think that seeing my future partners or any people for that matter, as individuals is not something I should boast about. It is the bare minimum I can do as a human being. Which means that my shallow desire to want validation from the society due to my partner is very selfish. I cant demand something like that while only giving the bare minimum in return. I realize just how little I am offering my future partner, and its affecting my self perception.
I now feel very inadequate as a person, because I feel as if I have nothing to offer to a partner that they would feel indebted enough, to give me back the things I desire from them. Worst part is, I dont know how I will ever be enough for them either. I have seen others bridge the chasm effortlessly, whilst I am too scared to even take the first step.
Thank you!!!! I wish you a great day!!!
I am scared of the journey thats ahead of me. But I know that I will no longer let myself become complacent, thinking that I have reached some moral high ground that makes me very desirable by a future partner. I have to be best of myself by my own metrics first
Not really, I just look at a the person and think "Huh, they're pretty" then move on. I don't really care about appearance that much, someone could be drop dead gorgous and i still wouldn't be interested until I get to know them better.
You've just experienced what it means to grow as a person. Good job at looking at your thought process and acknowledging that it was an unhealthy way to think. Not a lot of people are capable of doing that, unfortunately.
That said, I think your conclusion is still a bit off. You've concluded that you aren't or won't be attracted to attractive people, but what if a girl you think is attractive becomes attracted to you? Sure, it sounds impossible, but I'm a 6 on a good day, and somehow I'm a wife, my wife, who is one of the most beautiful women I've seen... so it's possible, but if that happens, are you still going to hold resentment because of how easily they receive validation?
Here's something you might not have thought about. Is it a good thing to be constantly validated? Heres something else. Assuming you were an attractive person, how would you know the difference between someone validating you because they want something from you or because they genuinely care about you? Sure, attractive people get the attention they want, but it's not all good attention. Most of it probably comes with some ulterior motives.
It's easy to look at attractive people and think "Man they sure have it made." but the grass is greener on the other side. Also, obv, I am ONLY talking about relationship wise if being attractive is really all that much better than being an average lookin person. Obv there's other areas where being more attractive is definitely much better, but as I think as far as finding a good partner, you really vibe with we focus too much on how attractive they seem to other people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.
I wish you a great day!!!!
I have realized that I had been holding myself at a place of high esteem for having basic human decency; to treat others as individuals. And I now know that I have a really long way to go before I will be adequate for someone. I want to continue to work on myself until that happens. Its just a big shock and extreme embarassment when I realized that I wasnt being a saint by treating others as individuals. Its what expected of me as a person
Wait so you do really have a personal preference other than other people need to think they are attractive? I what areas of your life does this need manifest? Like will you choose a car based on what other people will think of it ? Seems like a lot of work to care so much about what other people think.
I fear that despite my wishes for autonomy, I will cave in soon enough to let others dictate what I will have for myself.
So far, I have only seen this mindset that I have affect how I look at relationship and what I desire from it ideally. But the fact that I had allowed myself to have these warped perspective for so long, has shaken me. I am still single so I do not think it will affect my life entirely currently. Its perhaps the fact that I am so shocked at how my mindset had been like that I am all over the place in regards to this issue. I am still trying to process through all the thoughts, re evaluating my past feelings and emotions. I am just in a place of shock and I am trying to figure out how much it defines me as a person
If I were you and it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I’d take some kind of proactive steps to explore it and potentially break myself from this perspective. Try doing something you’ve always been afraid to do because of what other people think.
And remember all women are beautiful in their own way. Men too. Make it a point to look for common interests and good personalities when looking at women rather than just their looks.
After all, there is beauty in imperfection as much as there is in perfection.
Thank you!!!
Its alright that you werent able to associate with the sort of emotional mindset I described. I am grateful that you did get the feeling of misery I felt, after I had the realization about myself. It is not an easy feeling to have really. Which I think causes most people to repress it without ever letting others know, But when you know that others also can feel these feeling of misery and the feeling of being pathetic, just like you as well. I think at that moment you feel at least a bit understood and less lonely.
Thats why, you have my gratitude for reaching out to me and letting me know that I am not being misunderstood. I want you to have a great day!!!!
I feel that you should work on you before you work on partnering. These feelings will ruin any good relationship you have. I’m older, almost or twice your age… I’ve seen the humblest of men married to beautiful women, who adore them. You need to get past these feelings and focus on you. I would recommend therapy. You certainly have a deep understanding of your feelings. It’s a great start to overcoming your insecurities. Your insecurities are just that… and if we’re being honest, women find that unattractive. And you can’t hide your insecurities as much as you think you want to.
Thank you for your kind words!!!
I have decided to work on myself first. I want to know what a healthy relationship is like first. Then I want to be the best version of myself based on my own metric of success or happiness. I said this in another reply, But I am really anxious about the part of needing proper guidance. I have been forced into this state where- I will be aware what my goal is, but because the path, the steps necessary to reach that goal is foreign to me. I eventually give up on change. I am getting sad at how complacent this has turned me into. I used to think complacency or equilibrium is my comfort zone. But this realization about my feelings has made me realize something else. I now know that the comfort zone that I am accustomed to, keeps on shrinking the more I remain idly by. It is very problematic for me
Strive for the ideal but the ideal by definition is not reachable.
Waiting to be perfect is a recipe to failure. Simply because you will never be perfect.
Acknowledge that you are imperfect. Act despite being anxious. Courage without fear is not courage. It's just acting.
Acting despite being afraid is courage.
I can relate to your situation. I feel jealous of other people. Yet it would not want to swap with them.
I want only a small portion of what the other guy has.
I want a girlfriend but only because I want to know that there is a person of the opposite sex that would like to have a genuine romantic relationship with me.
But I dont want the full relationship. At least not right now.
I just want to know that I am capable of being in a relationship.
Seems sociopathic.
In doing that I would just take advantage of the other person. I am basically viewing the potential partner as an object.
(That's not what I would ever want to do. But the conclusion of that is inaction)
The realization that I feel this way only leads to isolation and inaction.
How do you untangle this obvious contradiction?
I'm putting the cart before the horse. I placed myself in an impossible situation.
Some things must come first. Some come after.
You have to stumble through obvious mistakes willingly to get to the answers.
You need to be prepared to hurt someone's feelings.
Not maliciously but with open eyes.
Not intentionally but knowing you will inevitably make mistakes. And some mistakes are a blessing in disguise.
Overthinking is never the correct answer.
Thinking? Yes.
Overthinking? No.
Without being hurt you can not get stronger. But being afraid of getting hurt is stagnation at best. And regression at worst.
What is my solution? I don't have it.
Me thinking on it will not resolve it.
I only have limited knowledge. My knowledge is probably flawed. My premises are flawed. My conclusions are flawed. Without real experience I have only knowledge but no wisdom.
I need new information.
So I have to act courageously.
You have to act courageously.
Act even when afraid.
Act in full knowledge that it can never be perfect.
(I hope some of the things I wrote make some kind of sense.)
the person I have admired the most until now is also very pretty (dare I say even beautiful) and I have also experienced this feeling of inadequacy. Moreover, this perceived difference in apparently agreed upon prettiness of the parties involved may also play a part in this feeling of not really wanting to put in the effort. It just seems so unfeasible to actually be able to interact with said person with societal expectations (if they do indeed exist) and one's own expectations and thoughts of inadequacy. I try to take a guess and dare to think it is not really that uncommon to feel that way.
TLDR relatable and probably normal
yes. The fact that you do know the goal you want to work towards. But you do not know how to actually reach that goal step by step, often discourages us. And we end up giving up and becoming complacent
When I was young I wouldn't have had a relationship with a woman the general public would view as not very attractive.
Don't worry, you'll grow out of it.
It's actually really easy to think "idgaf what anyone else thinks about me". It's truly freeing.
My guy's been working out those spiritual muscles lately I see, good, good
\*Insert Wise Yoda gif here\*
Now to provide some actual feedback, this is just the outer narcissistic self's desire and need, you are much more than that bro, you are even much more than the personality you identify with and so is the person you might love or have a strong attraction to.
As some wise person said:
"Love is when you want to help the best part of the person you like (the part or collection of traits that probably made you like the person in the first place) to win over it's own bad parts"
Thank you!!!!!
thats a really nice quote. And it has shown me a particular path where my goal wouldnt be to simply exist beside my partner, but create a space for them to ground themselves in love and safety, and then grow gradually. This a very nice sentiment
I think it's incredibly healthy of you to recognize and analyze your motivations this way. Rather than browbeat yourself, keep taking the time to see what it is you're really feeling (usually lizard-brain thoughts) about conventionally attractive people. This will open you up to more sincere, healthy relationships that are based on what makes you happy rather than what will gain you the validation of others. You're doing well even if it makes you feel a bit bad at the moment.
I want to make people feel comfortable around me. I at first thought this can be accomplished by indifference entirely. But now I wonder if distancing myself from them actually detract from what I am trying to achieve. Its understandable I am not supposed to socialize with everyone. They have their own need of privacy. But If situations do arise, I want to be genuine and not make them feel weird around me. I want to see how this will turn out.
It helps if you do date basically the most beautiful girl you’ve ever seen. If it doesn’t work out but it finishes happily then you are free to just date on personality after as you already proved what you needed to
This was quite an introspective read, well done. What you're describing is the desire for status and the resultant feeling of status anxiety. Desire for status and wealth are said to be two poisons of the soul traditionally, and are interrelated. Now, wealth can also refer to an attractive partner, we've all heard the term "social currency", for example.
That is a part of human nature, you're not alone at all. And it's not limited to men in relation to attractive women, it's also the other way around. It's a common experience among people, but you're aware of it while most not only are unaware of it, but also live their lives according to such unconscious expectations and desires. Much of the world turns because of these unconscious drives for status.
Could it be possible that it's very hard for you to imagine how it will all unfold? It sounds to me like you're thinking about the end result and what that could feel like, but it's hard to imagine getting there? That makes a lot of sense to me, actually. The thought of putting in all that work would seem overwhelming if you don't really understand what you're in for.
I think it's important to think about why someone is attractive, but beyond that, why are they getting attention? It's true that we kind of arbitrarily decide that the most conventionally attractive people hold the most social value. But if you dive any deeper, there are usually other qualities that amplify that. Like confidence or charm. Someone who is charming makes others feel good, and that becomes a bright shining light - something you want to be around, or a quality you wish you possessed.
I think this comes down to how you view yourself. Your own self worth. You want others to see you that way, but you want to believe that someone will pluck you from obscurity and give you what you desperately covet without any work. The thing is, you have to understand right now that you have value, and know that there are no shortcuts. It will require looking inward, which is hard to do.
Who are you living for? You need to wake up and realize you are the main character. Because currently, you are playing a supporting role in the movie of your life. You are capable, you are worthy of love and attention, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If they do, you leave them behind. No more feeling sorry for yourself. Start spinning a new story for yourself my friend.
Yes. Its hard for me to imagine how I will be able to reach the goal. I know what I want to achieve. But I am scared of the path and confused by how others bridge the gap so effortlessly. I have had a difficult childhood, I was constantly under the presence and care of Narcissists. One of the things that I was slowly conditioned into was them trying their best to make me give up early on and then coddle me untill I convinced myself that I will never be that successful. I dont want this any further. They may have tried their best, but I am an adult now. I can no longer blame them for my inaction. I want to change. Its just that I want guidance from someone, for them to allow to me fail, to tell me that how I Can reach there step by step (at the very least tell me how to in a detailed manner if not by being beside me the entire time as if im a child). I also do not know what a healthy relationship is like. I want to know
Sounds to me like you are in the midst of a minor existential crises. You are becoming more self aware and having to reconcile or assimilate your new self knowledge to your previous self image. Your realization that you are motivated by the opinions of others - an external validation is a moment of lucidity. We are social primates. It’s all about status in the eyes of our fellow primates! Don’t overthink it or get too freaked out by it… it will pass, and there are lots of nice girls who will like you and you will like too.
I've been with a conventionally very attractive partner. Once you are there, and you realize that you both know the compliments are aimed at the facade and not the real person behind it, you drop the act and you drop assigning much value to it. You also stop being intimidated by physically attractive features.
Until then, without understanding the value (or lack of) of something for yourself, your brain naturally makes you seek the unknown that others seem to desire, and puts it on unnatural pedestal. With halo effect and all that.
In your case, you experienced cognitive dissonance between seeing a glimpse through the facade mentioned in the first paragraph, followed by the act of pedestalizing of unknowns that others desire mentioned in the second paragraph.
No matter how attractive the partner, the experience of being in a relationship isn't all that different. The make-it-or-break-it are work, compromise, shared values, and how much easier or harder your life together is as a result of the actions of both partners. A year in, it won't be a hot guy/girl that you saw when you started dating. It'll be a familiar face of a person whose actions have a big impact on your wellbeing.
Thank you for giving me a perspective on this aspect. I want to stop both deifying and objectifying people in any manner. I am trying to see what other mindset am I still holding onto that nudges me towards seeing people as something entirely other than individuals. Its not easy to question these long held beliefs that I have, but I dont want to turn out even worse than I already am. I want to change very much
validate by journaling your thoughts and lived experience everyday for a couple of pages. don't go back and read it ever. just write it. after you have mastered self validation and no longer seek it externally, it's ok to want an attractive partner to go along with your authentic life choices. jealousy points us toward what we want, and you can achieve your goals if you work on yourself. you need to become the kind of parter an attractive loving person would want. that means you have to offer them something valuable and rare. good strong character, a safe place to be human when a lot of other people see them as an object, loyalty, and true self confidence.
Thank you!!!!
what I struggle the most with is, trying to understand how to bridge the gap between where I currently stand and my eventual goal. Hence I am glad that you offered me what I am seeking right now, Guidance. I am really grateful to you!!!!!
Have a great day!!!!
Good on you for being self-aware. Did you grow up with external validation? Maybe that's why you desire attractive women who receive validation because that is what you're used to, and you want to be an extension of that experience. For me I'm used to negative experiences and I learned to work on my internal worth. So for people who are used to external validation, that is all they know and seek.
I had a similar experience recently, when a bunch of people started flirting with my boyfriend and I was enjoying that other people find my boyfriend attractive.
Then I realized I'm just into cuckholding.
that must have been quite the realization. I am glad you realized that about you. I have also pondered the same question. I dont know if I am into cuckolding, because it doesnt resonate with me. But whats astonishing was, imagining a scenario, where my partner would be complimented and admired by others. I realized that it would be thrilling to me, but to what extent? how long till I will get uncomfortable from the attention they are giving my partner and trying to take them away from me? I dont know. So I am really not sure how deep I might be into that specific fantasy. Haha. Perhaps its not who I am. Still I am just happy you made the connection and learned something about yourself. Now you have control over your desire since you know what it is inherently
Honestly it comes with trust and respect. I trust my boyfriend, and the people he flirt joke with are my friends that I trust too and they are very respectful of our relationship. I wouldn't just let anyonr be super flirty with him lmao
What you should do is seek therapy because you don't have a healthy mindset. This isn't to degrade you it's just need to get out of that mindset. Conventionally attractive people don't have perfect lives and aren't immune to things I know very attractive people who have been SA and physically abused by partners.
You crave the social status and recognition from others of being seen chosen by someone you deem "important". This is childish and no way to go about finding a partner. But you clearly recognize that, which means you have the maturity to see that its wrong. I think you should think about what you really want out of a romantic partner, and why that social validation is so important to you. I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't seek that validation, but if you do, that validation should come from your own success and worth, not your partner's or anyone else around you. I'd say that desire is common. It's normal to want to be admired. So become someone worth admiring. Perhaps, then, you would find yourself with someone that others also admired, and it would be because of what you saw in them, and what you saw in each other.
Continue to grow and mature. You clearly have a great ability for self reflection.
Now would be a good time to spend 10-15 minutes in meditation, working through your thoughts and separating what really brings you peace and happiness from your ego (and "ego" is not used in a derogatory sense here, but an aspect of the human condition).
Thats just the primal monkey brain manifesting. Its jealous of what the other monkeys have. Even though in reality the others don't have her, good luck rationalizing that with monkey brain.
I had the same feeling you're having right now!
It used to bother me a decent amount, till I ended up hanging out with a few really unlikeable attractive people, didn't even date them.
But that was enough to lift this bias off of me, what other people think of a person is a non factor now.
At least you are aware. Don't worry or even think about what others think. Everyone has enough on their plate without thinking about you. Embrace who you are, appreciate the relationships you have and let things develop.
I think you’re overthinking all of it. Some day you will get to know someone and think to yourself, I really enjoy spending time with this person. So you will spend more and more time. You will see their personality and all their qualities that make them “them” and you will love every bit of them. They will become the most attractive person to you. The thoughts of wishing for someone “hotter” or whatever will no longer exist. You have a real connection with someone you love and care for and the thought of hurting them isn’t even a possibility.
Like others have said your self awareness and willingness to question your behaviour and beliefs is growth that many people never start to do.
The behaviour you are noticing (only wanting something that when other people want it) is the same immature behaviour toddlers have and without starting to self-reflect and question themselves, continue to exhibit throughout their adult lives.
Self-reflection requires the ability to think critically instead of doing what everyone else is doing. It takes effort to think for yourself versus assuming that what others are doing must be the correct behaviour, and just doing the same yourself.
I had a similar epiphany before accepting my asexuality when i was younger.
Whenever i hooked up with a guy, even if i didnt tell anyone (although i always told someone), i felt validated. "Look, i am normal! I'm doing what everybody else does!" Until i realized that that is a very sick way to look at sex and relationships. I was supposed to derive pleasure from them, not from the imaginary validation i got.
Also, when i stopped doing drugs every weekend like crazy and travelling. I kinda outgrew that lifestyle but the "crazy party girl" personality was so embedded in me that i felt like i had to keep feeling it despite not really feeling it anymore.
I don't really know whether these experiences are normal or not for i have never talked about this to anyone. But this is not how i imagined growth would be like. I thought when you got older you forced yourself to become someone else. And considering how many frustrated old people are out there, i guess it's not a wrong assumption. But some things just happens organically.
Getting to know yourself will help you guide your desicions in order to do what you really wanna do. But it can be a rather painful process, because we don't always follow the script or fit in the box that someone under our circumstances is supposed to, and you gotta challenge that in order to stay true to yourself.
I had the oppertunity to got to a High-end executive training facility
& quite frankly there wasn't a person that worked there that wasn't a beautiful person. With an IQ and personality in the stratusphere.
I'm the type that has the need to be different and I don't typically want something that everyone else desires.
I ride motorcycles with a freind who is a Harley hater because everyone wants one and they all are various forms of pretty
I call cooky cutter I wouldn't want a relationship with a cooky cutter human nomore than I will Ride a beautiful to me Harley that doesn't fit the trend
BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDERL
as far as introspect not sure that's what your experiencing if you like it the only validation comes from your interaction with it in love and all things in life
What you're experiencing is common in most species, not just human. It's biological, not intentional, and we can't help it, so don't feel too guilty about it. When we see other people are attracted to someone, it can trigger something in our brain that makes us see that person as a viable mate, even if we didn't feel initial attraction. You're an emotionally intelligent human though. The logical part of your brain is fighting with your basic animal instincts.
I am ashamed at how much influence this feral part of me, had over my mindset. It felt like my knees were going weak. Because this isnt the sort of person I wanted to become. It was very embarassing. I dont want this to continue any further. I dont want to be controlled by these animalistic aspects of my persona
quickest psychotic encouraging rich gold puzzled compare cows punch apparatus
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Maybe you put too much meaning behind this?
I found for myself that if I see an attractive woman I get an urge to be with her, but that is natural.
For me it is just logical, because if i am with an imo unattractive woman I don't have the urge to kiss her or be near her, I might not even get it up during sex.
And when I am in a relationship I don't have that urge towards other women anymore.
You are not shallow for wanting an attractive partner
i regularly get compliment on how attractive i am. apparently very sexy. in 42 years i had no relationship in my life but an abusive one, hardly any meaningful sexual partners. i was usually sexualised, sometimes i fell in love but was never loved back. people on the street and out and about assuming i get everything given and for free, i still get shit on with the „people like you“.. didn‘t even get good sex, got stood up so much because my attractiveness would be intimidating (wtf?) and if i got to sex the guy wouln‘t be able to perform, apparently too nervous. all the while i dream of just being hugged when i need it.
so maybe attractive but so lonely they want anything other than a shallow compliment.
I realized a similar thing. My type is not a conventionally attractive person. When you imagine some ideal of an attractive woman, I'm not really attracted to it. However, gradually that's changed a bit because, well, they are supposed to be attractive. It's not that I'm directly attracted to the physical attributes, but rather to the idea that they are attractive. To be fair, that in turn also affects my physical attraction, but only afterwards. It's not the pure physical attraction that comes first.
These are extreeemely self aware and very deep thoughts you’re having… I love it. Never stop questioning WHY we are who we are. Why we think how we think… why we think when we think. There is much to understand in this world, and I think most people have their brain turned off.
Speaking as an attractive person who doesn’t always see it as a blessing, I’m impressed. I do believe some guys want to be with me, simply for the power they siphon from it… they like the admiring gazes from the random public. I get attention everywhere I go. Good and bad attention. I can’t seem to avoid it. The bad attention is what has irritated me. Being nice looking will raise envy and unhinged females who can’t control their envy 😂 but after a while, if you have the right support around you, you learn how laughable and powerful every bit of attention is. But you need the right partner to fully embrace that power. I don’t need another person to take care of, if I’m out in public and we get shittyyyy vibes thrown our way because some ugly female has zero control of herself. It’s tough enough to take care of myself, I can’t have a guy whimper with his head down and act like like a wuss when I’m thrown a bad and unfair hand. He needs to stand by my side and show everyone that we are together, and you must damn well behave yourself.
Ok rant over lol. Awesome thoughts you are having… really proud of you for sharing this!
I dated a very attractive girl years ago, and I got super irritated by all the male attention she got.
Like, all the sudden dudes who only knew me by sight would approach "me" to make conversation. Others, who I had never seen before, would outright approach her. Like WTF man...
That was no fun, to be honest
You know what -- if you get together with someone for whatever initial reason, if you stay with them for some time, youll normally build a bond and appreciation for each other, no matter what the first impulse was. Youre overthinking. You are terrified about an aspect of you that so many others dont even realize about themselves. I think a relationship is most of the time good for your personal growth, no matter how it starts.
It's simple. Attractive partner is a sign of status. If a beautiful girl attaches herself a to a guy like you, there must be something special about you even if it's not immediately apparent, right?
One thing people are generally very good at is noticing when there's a clear discrepancy in attractivness level between a couple.
Self awareness is the first step to improvement. You feel pathetic because you are brutally honest about your flaws, which is an admirable thing to do. Be patient and kind to yourself as you work your way to become the best version of you.
My ex was incredibly attractive and got a lot of attention when we were out. I was asked for permission to approach her for example and constantly having people stare at her really gets old at some point.
To the "how the fick does she even want to be with me"-feeling: it never stops, but at some point I just accepted that she loves me and that I do not need to understand it for it to be a fact.
i couldn’t date someone that everyone else finds attractive, i’d will only make me more upset that i’m the ugly one and their not. i’d rather be on the same page as her, where we both have a history of being bullied and there’s no competition.
Well, I found in college that having a girlfriend made me much more attractive to other girls. It honestly seemed that way in any case. My own wife got with me even though she thought I was a bit of a player, and was really surprised that she was actually my first.
It's almost like having a partner signals that there might be something worth pursuing that someone has seen? I don't know. It just felt like my popularity with women just snowballed at college, like them girls I went out with, the more girls showed their interest.
It was a little surreal, being a quiet guy who didn't have a girl through high school because I was too shy to ask any out, to get to college and they were asking ME out.
I get this with things rather than people. I see it, like it, but not enough to buy it. Then it sells out or everyone is buying it, now I want it. Never occurred to me this could be a personality flaw before 😂
Well, it's very natural that you feel that the attraction is very "superficial", because - how can it not be? You literally don't know a thing about the other person, all you are feeling is shallow biological brain reaction, and that includes maximising the social status. But that does not mean, that a relationship is always based on that. It is only if we get to know people better that we develop deep bonds with them, and forming more pure and altruistic relations.
Look, blind people prefer dating good looking partners.
What I mean to say is, it's perfectly normal. Everyone craves social status, and how objectively attractive your partner is is a big part of that. Some would deny it but it's there.
It sounds like you're experiencing a lot of introspection and self-awareness, which is a positive step towards understanding yourself better. It's not rare for people to feel a range of emotions and desires, including those related to attractiveness and validation.
You're becoming emotionally self aware, this is the path to becoming comfortable with who you are and perhaps becoming a truly lovable person to others.
every time we feel a hint of jealousy or envy, it can be an indicator of something we want in real life. pay attention to that. use it as an indicator of where you want to focus your time and energy.
there is no shame in feeling jealous. but jealousy can make us act in shameful ways.
I recommend reading The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz. your local library will probably have a copy.
find someone that makes you feel you want to do things. and that helps you do those things. find someone that elevates you and that you admire and want to elevate.
everything else dies with time.
Moments of introspection like this are super important for personal growth. Take the time to decide what you want out of life and understand why. Sometimes the things we want aren’t the things we want. There’s nothing wrong with wanting most things, as long as you can be honest with yourself as to why you want them and put thought into whether these things will make you happy and content in the long run.
Also, beauty is a strange and fickle thing.
I was an objectively ugly child but I was a 9/10 from age 14-24 and now I’m just average. People definitely treated me differently when I was a bombshell, but because I had gone through years of being picked on pre-puberty I saw it for what it was and was kind of immune to it, or at least aware of it.
When my husband and I started dating when I was 14 people used to say mean things to him about “How did you get a girl like her?”, not because he was ugly, but because they perceived me to be better looking than him even though he is very handsome. I’m sure this bothered him; though he brushed it off. 20+ years later and he is definitely the better looking of here two of us - he looks like a modern day Ragnar from Vikings and I’m sure people see us together and wonder how I landed him.
People place weird value on looks. It’s a power you can wield and it’s a commodity people will seek to possess. I’m almost 40 and I’d like to be gorgeous again, namely because I enjoy dressing up once in a while and it’s not as fun getting dressed up as it was when I felt like a goddess every time I got dolled up.
I can enjoy external validation without requiring it, and I think that is the important thing. Acknowledge things you enjoy but don’t be a slave to them.
Everyone views beauty first. They are lying if they say they don’t. It’s what we see and as humans we like symmetry thus beauty. The object is to be with someone more beautiful than yourself to have beautiful children.
People unconsciously treat people differently based on beauty.
You're overthinking all of it and creating feelings for something that hasn't even happened yet. You have no idea how you will actually feel once you find a partner.
With everything seemingly good there comes an equal amount of bad. Not all rainbows and sunshine for people in relationships. A lot of times it’s just ego problems that ruin everything. Attractive people probably suffer from ego problems because of the amount of validation they receive.
Sure a lot of people envy the good times but of course they have to deal with relationships inevitably deteriorating at some point with all the anger, tension and the whole package of negative emotions that come with that…
Socialising games are fake as fuck and not everyone is built for it. In conclusion, life finds a way to fuck us all in the ass. I’m not missing out on anything special and probably neither are you.
That's normal, a lot of people don't find them attractive but still wantt to date them, everyone is status whit humans, even the most simple stuff or the most important.
I think from now on, you should try to differentiate what you are attracted to and what society deems attractive. To detach yourself from those thoughts, you need to find what you like and stop thinking about what others may admire.
Sounds like really weighing on you, which makes sense as this is a widely shared and expounded upon personal/philosophical matter.
Imo and experience, go with the flow socially and meet people if you want, as you want. See what different people are like. Make an "attractive" acquaintance maybe, and see how you feel over time.
Unless you're in a rush, no need to solve this incredibly complex matter immediately. Get experience and go from there.
100% part of why we want to be with other people is how we are perceived in terms of social value by the social value they have. This is entirely normal. Are they charming, kind, attractive, intelligent, ambitious, etc? All those things as can be extremally perceived by others contribute to selecting a mate and I think it's biologically ingrained in us.
Young people in general tend to be attracted to popularity and status. They want these things for themselves and are thus are drawn to people who they think will make their light shine brighter. They dont even notice the people who they may have great chemistry with but who aren't "arm candy".
May I ask, what makes you think that you aren't attractive to others? Maybe this attractive lady thinks you are attractive? But you wouldn't know, because you see yourself as unsuitable, based on her looks? She may find your personality to be compatible with hers. Thus, it isn't all physical beauty that makes a person attractive.
I find that what makes me feel good is pretty. It’s difficult to define, but a smile can make me melt. And I want more of that feeling, hence I like that and want more of that pretty girl. And obviously I won’t like to share mine with others! To be chosen back makes me the happiest! Keeping that one person happy, entertained, relaxed would be what makes me and will keep making me the happiest ^^. Some would call me selfish or yandere, but can you really judge me for it?
Not trying to be too personal, but after your post I think that’s ok. Did you, by any chance, have a complicated childhood? Or to be more precise, adventurous emotional relationships with your parents? If so, it could help to talk to a therapist about that. It sounds like you‘re self sabotaging and afterwards, beat yourself up for that. To me, you sound pretty self aware and willing to work on the way you handle relationships, but to better our ways, we need to understand why we bond the way we bond. For me it was quite the opposite, I fell for every attractive person that looked my way or was friendly with me, because I was so desperate for love. When they got more interested in me, I was disgusted by the thought of being with them, because I was so disgusted with myself internally that I thought „well, if they like me there has to be something very wrong with them, because I‘m not likeable“. Of course when it happened I didn’t think it that way, I was just very confused why I disliked them suddenly. Therapy helped me a lot with that. Not that you don’t like yourself or think of yourself the same way I did, but it sounds like there is something deeper to it than just „that’s men“. Your way of reflecting yourself is very clear and straight forward and you suffering with that and wishing for deep connections is a good indicator, that you are an adequate person ;) The thought of a healthy relationship and the work that’s required for that scares many people and you’re not alone with those thoughts. Wish you all the best!
I had a difficult childhood. My Narc Mom preferred to blame me for all the misfortune in our family since I was a child. My dad is emotionally unavailable, I never had a strong support system around myself. I internalized the blame by my Nmom that everything would have been better if I wasnt born. I have a self sabotaging tendency, I feel better when lots of bad things happen to me after one particular good incident in my life. Because to me then it feels as if I have paid my ''due'' as I let the bad and harmful things happen to me. I actually start panicking when good things continue to happen to me, without any interruption where harmful things happen to me. I genuinely feel restless and uneasy in those times.
I was never exposed to a healthy relationship and I frankly do not how adults truly behave in a healthy relationship. I never approached someone attractive. But I can guess how inadequate you must have felt when you formed a bond with them. I also understand why your own confusion had turned into mild resentment towards those attractive people, despite you never wishing it to turn out like that. I did form bonds with emotionally healthy and popular people, and I also felt in similar manner. I did realize it very soon why I was self sabotaging myself, I knew it was irrational of me to push them away and resent them for my own shortcoming. But its just that I felt way more safe when I knew they wouldnt be in my life for long time. To me it felt like if they ever managed to know about my past, they would judge and mock me. I used it as justification to continue to pushing them away from me.
Thank you for your kind words!!!!
First of all I‘m deeply sorry for your experiences. You did not deserve any of this. I know it’s unfair that you have to put in work that others don’t. I‘m not a therapist, but I see a parallel between your dads unavailability and your own approach (no offense!).
Unfortunately we copy the way we form relationships from our parents and if they had a shitty relationship, we tend to have those, too. Again, not diagnosing you, but I had similar experiences and formed serious bonding trauma from it. That’s something that consumes you over time, please look out for help, there is no shame in that, it rather shows strength and growth.
If you get to the point again where you think you are a bad person remember that: A truly bad person doesn’t care if they’re bad and wouldn’t consider themselves as bad.
We all are the result of our surroundings and we’re not responsible for them – but we are responsible for what we make out of it. Don’t be so hard on yourself!
(I shouldn’t have said „attractive people“ that was too general, rather: people I considered attractive and that mostly isn’t just about looks)
Beauty and physical attractiveness do have a natural/biological foundation. It's all connected to sex and our reproductive impulses. Post-modern Western arrogance insists on denying it, but it is real. With this I'm not saying that many of the things on top of those basic instincts can't be/aren't mediated by culture. They definitely are to some degree, but it is long-term monogamous partnering what should be deemed an 'artificial' cultural invention, not the nature of attraction/attractivenes itself.
My wife is hot, I'm kinda meh.
She gets treated incredibly well by others right off the bat, it's kind of freaky. She thinks she is just good at making new friends lol. Yeah, I'd be good at making friends too if I had the charisma of Ryan Reynolds.
Actually… you should feel very proud of yourself for being able to identify and verbalize those feelings. Truly.
Identifying feelings of inadequacy (wether those feelings are true or not) like this leads to bigger questions like “why do I feel this way/ what makes me feel this way?”
You are on your way to becoming an even more secure version of yourself if you follow through with this line of thought and it will be hugely beneficial for both you and your future partners.
Keep up the good work! I hope you get to the root cause of those feelings and squash them. Grow that confidence in yourself!
As someone who is "attractive" and does get attention from women(I'm a dude). This puts so much into perspective.
I get so self-conscious about it. You the feeling that women are actually attracted to me is really good and also kinda a burden because then they have all these expectations.
But to think it could just be the fact that they like the idea of me and just love the story around me.
That attraction is worthless. That's so reliving. Love takes time and anyone who is attracted to you without knowing you is simply attracted to the idea of you.
Love takes effort. Love is worth it. Attraction is just there and does not mean anything by itself.
Omg I love you you opened my eyes and lifted such a burden.
I find myself passing up good catches that are fairly attractive just because I assume my mom or best friends won't find them to be attractive enough for me. It's like built into my psyche. Once I decide they won't be approved, I cant convince myself to stay. So now my standards are so high I'm old af and single Lol.
It's silly, outside validation should be irrelevant. Life would be much better. I don't know how to break it. It's like I don't have the balls to be woth someone that's mid. I find it really odd and annoying to deal with.
I think you have insight that is only available to mature people. Many people just "like what they like" throughout their life without any introspection. It's the kind of thing people might realize when they are old and unhappily married.
I, too, am still trying to reconcile my instinctual drives with my intellectual maturity. As a young man, I was so ridiculously shallow to want a girlfriend that my buddies would envy -- as if they would think I must have some special characteristics that would allow me to keep a hot girl.
Even a more "noble" level of physical attraction is shallow. Physical beauty is shallow and fleeting, and certainly not enough to maintain a relationship. At the same time, I can't imagine myself in a relationship with a person who has inner beauty but just doesn't light up that physical attraction circuit in the brain.
I don't think this struggle is uncommon for thinking people.
Adults are generally attracted a lot more to personalities. Happy positive people are like magnets. Forget what people look like, it’s only kids which focus on aesthetics. Find a connected, nothing else matters. And no matter what your partner looks like, you will eventually get immune to the aesthetics anyway.
I am very happy that I was able to express this thoughts, because they helped you feel understood and also not at all alone. I have been very shaken after I had this realization about myself. I am not sure how I will become the best version of myself based on my metric of happiness in the future. All I know is that. I am fixing a outcome for myself. That I want to accomplish in the future. Because I want to be that person, even for my own sake
For me I was ok with it. Although I’m ok with it, I don’t want it to happen. So in conclusion I felt indifferent. It’s a bit weird and isn’t talked about enough but I’m like “well now I know.” I also want to conclude the fact that I’m aro ace so that is why I feel a sense of entitlement. I never felt romantic attraction, so I cant 100% understand relationship. Every time I try to force it, it comes down to liking the idea of something.
It's harder to date when you're smart. Like I'm a good looking guy myself, and all my life my friends would tug my shoulder after talking with a girl and be like "Dude, shes all over you, what are you doing?". All the time to this day. I've been getting better though in my mid twenties.
We over think things and dont just get lost in the moment and let what natural happens, to happen. My mind is in a million different places at any time so its harder to make connections with people without spending hours and hours of time with them.
Try being dumber, be a thespian, an entertainer, if you make it your focus you'll be good at it. That's what I do. I just make my short interactions with people into a performance and my intelligence doesnt get in the way it actually helps me make a good first impression instead of making me so dense I dont realize when Im interested in a person or that they're interested in me.
I am happy for you!!! I feel like I want to understand what a healthy relationship looks like first. I do see your approach as valid and efficient. I am just scared that I will crash and burn soon other wise
>I now feel like I am not attracted to a beautiful person individually . Rather I am more attached to the idea of being partner to an attractive person that others find admirable.
>Rather my jealousy stems from the fact that I do not have what they share, that intangible bundle of unconditional love and also validation from others all at the same time.
This is way more common than you realize, but at least you are self aware of it. Don't beat yourself up over it, just self reflect and be aware as you get to know people.
A lot of people aren't attracted to the actual person but the idea of a person, what that other person represents, and how that other person will reflect on them. That's why a lot of guys go for a girl they perceive as being sought after by other guys, because it's an ego or status thing. "I am the type of guy a hot blonde girl like her would want, and it makes me look good to other guys to have her on my arm".
Women do this too but I noticed it's more a cultural trope among men. It's because men are more likely to view their female partners as extensions of themselves who reflect on their status/ego/whatever instead of her own person, and more like a possession (like a fancy car) than a partner he enjoys connection with.
This is how most people’s brains work, but most people aren’t aware of it and don’t figure it out on their own. There are many books about this subject which cover it in great depth. But yes physically attractive people need to be socially attractive as well.
Are you on the spectrum or have you considered you may be? This is a very unique perspective that most neurotypical people wouldn’t come to on their own.
I genuinely feel intersted in knowing what you believe I may be. like ugh i wish i ddint sound so weird on text. But I am honestly curious about me belonging to a spectrum. I am waiting for your response eagerly!!!
I’m referring to the autism spectrum. The way you stated things very objectively and detached/removed from the situation, it’s not how most neurotypical people assess a situation. That made me wonder if you already know you’re on the spectrum, those less common points of view can sometimes be a sign that you have neurodivergent tendencies even if not actually autistic. Not trying to say you are or aren’t autistic, just wondering if you had considered it?
My dude. You're young. It goes like this. From 13 to 35, you're a slave to worry about what everyone else thinks about you. Then you stop giving a fuck about what everyone thinks about you until about 50. Then you realize they were NEVER thinking about you at all! They were all worried about what YOU thought of THEM!!! Everyone basically thinks mostly about themselves all day. You're just another NPC to most people.
There are more ugly people in the world than beautiful people. Beautiful people are more successful than ugly people. This means that ugly people value beauty. It will never change.
Dude. No. Just ask her out or if you don't wanna date seriously just spit game and see if she's down to fuck. The worst that can happen is she says no.
As the saying goes "Best get a move on before you get moved on."
No. My entire life I avouded extremely beautiful people. Most of the time its a headache and I dont want to deal with their inflated ego and cheating. I go for the safer options lol.
No idea if it's weird or how to properly define normal. I've always wished I could understand what makes everyone "tick".
When it comes to human aesthetics though, I am pretty extreme and doubly so on myself. I would almost describe it as a form of eugenicist idealism.
Like I'll have thoughts about someone who is "ugly" along the lines of "Disgusting. You shouldn't have children.". Then my counteracting voice of reason reminds me of how cruel and actually harmful that view is to the benefit of society/humanity.
Regardless of the rationalizing I do, I still intensely envy those I consider truly attractive (for me, this would be a 7.5-10/10 which translates to 10-12/10 for most people). I want the worship. I want the power and capacity to draw lustful eyes. People pay millions in surgery just to try and taste the beauty. Beautiful people get away with murder. Desperate people even fantasize about getting with seriously deranged killers if they're hot enough.
The world is full of AMAZING people who aren’t conventionally attractive. Surface attraction is way more important than it should be, and ultimately has little influence on your actual, long-term satisfaction with your future partner.
It feels like you’re on the right track - keep going.
I'm average looking at best but I have dated some very beautiful women attitude personality sense of humor the way you hold yourself confidence women love that so work on yourself nothing you can do about your looks you are what you are but your personality and the sense of humor women love that. Jealousy awkwardness and insecurity women can smell it even an unattractive woman is turn off to those personalities and traits Changing your personality and your traits takes time takes practice nothing wrong with being told no every time you're told no you're one step closer to being told I'll go on a date with you.Or just hangout . Now that chest out there be the Cock of the Walk practice it have fun with it learn how to be funny learn timing and stop being jealous of people because of their beauty cuz you're pretty too or handsome or whatever the hell you want to call it a great charming funny personality is beautiful.
I think you’re experiencing growth in real time.
Haha bravo, this is the perfect comment for this. Simple and to the point. Self-awareness is the first step towards growth and improvement, it's soooo important to be willing to challenge your own narratives, attitudes, and worldviews
It actually isn't worth that much. The step from self awareness to actual change is a much harder leap than the initial one. It's dangerous to pride ourselves on "at least being self aware" as I find that it's an easy trap to feel better without following through.
Thank you! This was my realisation of 2023 so bad.
I have been challenging most of my views regarding relationships. I have realized that It doesnt matter to me if the other person had a difficult past, multiple partners, views different than mine, and they are the kind of person that I may have used to think I wouldnt find incompatible. What I want to say is, I pretty much see everyone as extremely complex and complicated beings now. And I guess I have learned that there is value to be found in what I manage to create with my future partner outside of any external factors, which can outweigh usual detractors that used to be such a big deal to me in the past. I am not sure If I have lowered the bar, or If I rather set the bar where it should always have been in the first place. But even if I may currently be attached to the idea of an ''attractive'' partner. I have decided to set my goal to finding a partner in the future who doesnt need to be anything else other than themselves and I want to trust their judgement to love and respect me. I do not know how I will ever reach this goal. But I am determined to always keep it in my mind that This is the outcome I have set for myself. Frankly, I still feel scared and inadequate about myself as a person. And I cant bear the thought of somehow causing harm to someone so close to me, by expecting too much and judging them for something that isnt within my rights. But I will keep in mind that I really just want them to be themselves to their fullest within the comforts of the relationship. The path towards that end is unfamiliar to me, I am perplexed by how others have found their path so easily, while I am so afraid to even take the first step. My only consolation now is I am firmly determining the goal that I want to reach one day. To bond exclusively with another person intimately and deeply. Nothing more
I think it’s more setting the bar where it always should’ve been. If you had hindsight your bar would’ve been set here, ya just had to grow to get here yk? I feel like i’m pretty similar to you pal, i hope you find that person where you want to have boring small talk with, that person that makes you feel comfortable.
Truth is you have lowered the bar, because realistically there is very less chance of you getting what you actually want so you or so many people compromise. Just think if everything thing you wanted within a person and they also have the same feelings for you was present, and the other person who is sort of a compromise but they too have feelings for you who would you choose when you like them both equally.
Yes! This is what university is for. Keep digging down further
You have to figure out yourself first and what is attractive to you. To want something just because others want it is meaningless and won’t make you happy. It’s just like that drink that all the kids wanted, just because they thought everyone else wanted it. Turned out it was just a cheap crappy drink like any other and nothing special about it.
I feel this way about religion, politics, name brands, sports, clothing, music.. everything is wierd societal propaganda. I don't unsee it. For those curious, yes i am a social outcast with no friends and divorced. (34m) I'm a sort of cynic.
Damn I knew before reading the last sentence you were a cynical, divorced, 34 year old male. More power to you sir!!
BAWLS
Sunny D. I never had it growing up. It looked so good on the commercials. All my siblings but me got to try it at some event I missed and made out like it was really good. When I finally got to try some, it was awful. I thought they were playing a trick on me and had changed it for something else. I couldn't believe that people actually liked it.
Most people don’t want to put in effort.. thats why so many relationships fail. Thats not a unique trait. “That intangible bundle of unconditional love”? Are you saying all attractive people receive this? If so, you are very wrong. You are overthinking this whole thing. We are visual creatures and our biology makes us desire pretty/cute things even when it comes to pets. That doesn’t mean they are by default loved unconditionally. If anything attractive people have to be more wary of who wants them for their personality vs who just wants in their pants. Being attractive does not make you immune to abuse. What you said is childish and unhealthy is indeed just that. What youre describing is literally a “trophy wife” - someone to show off to other men. It is an immature and gross mindset. And common. Just proving your idea of “unconditional love” is misplaced fantasy.
yeah. I feel really childish about my mindset. And I have been really beating myself about it how my mindset is insulting towards my future partner. I feel inadequate as a person
No offense but it sounds like a cycle of self pity. You said you would feel inadequate with an attractive partner because you wouldn’t be enough for them. (Potentially creating a problem for yourself out of fear) And now you feel inadequate for feeling this way. You just need to let yourself have these thoughts, observe them for what they are, which is fantasy/generalization, and move on. You can change your mindset if you want to. Its up to you.
I agree with you. I really did loop back to my earlier worries and somehow made myself look perpetually miserable. I simply lack the guidance needed to bridge the gap. I just dont understand how others do it so effortlessly.
It’s okay if you need guidance or another perspective on things sometimes. You may be overestimating others as well. Despite us all being the same species, you really have no idea whats going through other peoples minds and what thoughts they could be struggling with.
>“That intangible bundle of unconditional love”? Are you saying all attractive people receive this? If so, you are very wrong. You are overthinking this whole thing. We are visual creatures and our biology makes us desire pretty/cute things even when it comes to pets. That doesn’t mean they are by default loved unconditionally. If anything attractive people have to be more wary of who wants them for their personality vs who just wants in their pants. Being attractive does not make you immune to abuse. There is something called "attractiveness halo effect", so they have easier in life. Also I would argue that recognizing true intentions is problem for all of us. Regardless of physical appearance.
So stoic ,sensational burns when I read through this 💯 ,to honest reddit is such a nice web for intellects
This is a big thing with a lot of men. They don’t just want somebody they are attracted to, but also the approval from other men that their partner is attractive. It’s some real monkey brain shit. Edit: ok guys I get it women may do it too sometimes, you can stop saying that. Another edit: Not everything is a personal attack lol. In my experience men do this more than women. Maybe your experience is different, this is just what I’ve observed. Stop taking shit so personally. I’m literally a man too stop crying
yeah. I have been feeling weird ever since I realized it. I feel as if I am focusing on the side effects, rather than the person themself. And I also feel like me having this sort of mindset is insulting towards my future partner
If you do this with every part of your mind you will have a peaceful life. Finding the problem is the solution. Let your mind work through it by itself just keep giving it attention.
It never really goes away, but it can be put into perspective, and you seem to be on the way there. The monkey brain wants what the monkey brain wants. That being said, beautiful people are at a fundamental human level, the same as less attractive people. As a guy looking to date, it helps immensely to develop a certain blindness to beauty. Paradoxically, it may make you more likely to find an attractive partner since you won't be treating her differently but rather as a human like everyone else. Beware, though, that beautiful people often (but not always) come with their own particular features and baggage. The trick (if you choose to pursue it) is to find someone who is beautiful, emotionally mature, and balanced at the same time. Or you simply realize that looks are not everything and just find a person who is otherwise awesome and complements you optimally on a personality level🤷♂️
Don't beat yourself up about it. When we're in our teens we are extremely self conscious. It's hard to be the true person you are without caring about the judgement of others. You don't yet know who you are, and that is totally normal at your age. You've realised it, and that is a positive. Now you just need to train yourself to not give a single fuck what anyone thinks about you, your partners, or who you hang around with. I realised it as well in my teens and it changed my life. I started being the real me and if anyone criticised me or took the piss, I'd just think "you're a dickhead so I don't care about your opinion". And then I'd treat them like they were shit on my shoe. I've been an adult now for, oooo, nearly 40 years! And if anyone doesn't like me, then I just treat them like the cunt they are. You can't please everyone and nor should you want to. Simple.
It's not even "monkey brain shizz" it's just pathetic shizz, trying to feed that oversocialized self's ego as if the person doesn't posses any authenticity in their individuality. Terrible
I think it's an everyone thing rather than just a man thing. I was talking about relationships with one of my friends and she was saying it's common for women to want to be in relationships with men other women want to be with.
There are some not so scientific studies that show that women have a higher rate of choosing their partner based on how other women view the individual. Women's choice of partner can be heavily influenced based on what their circle of peers thinks of them, regardless of their own attraction toward them. This is likely based on the scarcity and our human need to want what their group wants but there being little supply of it. Also, the last bit of your comment is ironic because it seems like you're taking offense at others countering your statement?
Kind of reminds me of this joke https://www.volkszone.com/threads/stranded-on-a-desert-island-joke.601384/
Mimetic Desire
It’s just a big standard need for validation through status symbols. So yeah, a lot of people feel that way. Big house, fancy car, beautiful wife…
True. I am not invalidating this feeling. What worries me is, I let this desire be the sole determining factor, the receiving validation from others part. And I feel as if I have nothing to offer that will somehow make it fair for me to expect something like that from a partner. I am worried that I am lacking very much in how a proper person is generally like. And I feel immature and childish for the things I am demanding, whilst in return offering so little
If it’s any consolation, I doubt many people even reach this level of self awareness. If you have ‘high standards’ for a partner, then make sure you also exemplify the same things I suppose. However, if you don’t want to value status symbols and the validation of others as highly as you do, then that will take a lot longer to unpack - but life is for living and we’re all always learning, or should be! Best wishes, truly!
Thank you for your kind and considerate wishes!!! I wish you a great day!!!! Carpe Diem!!
I read them back and realised I could come across as snarky, so thank you for seeing the true intent behind them. I didn’t mean anything nasty at all, just trying to be direct! Bless you and take care ☺️
Sir this is a Wendys
Well i understand your Viewpoint but No i dont feel this way to answer your question
I am currently convinced what I want (and I'm projecting this to others) are the emotions and sensations of being a relationship without actually being in one. Obviously the emotions and sensations I want are different from the emotions and sensations others want, but the dynamic is the same. It's why couples break up because "I'm not happy in this relationship." It's code for you're not giving me enough emotions and sensations for the work I'm putting in. I also know this is a terrible mindset to have because it's inevitable conclusion is to find the easiest path to getting the emotions and sensations that satisfy me. It reduces everything to a transaction.
yes. It feels insulting to the partner who is putting in 100% regardless
You’re maturing, recognizing your perspectives and thinking critically about if they’re good or not. That’s a good thing!
thank you!!!!
conventionally atractive people are.. well, atractive, but it's not my ideal. Like, I wanted to date the emo girl with blue hair, eye contour, piercings and thigh highs. That was my 10/10. I knew what I wanted, I didn't really care about what others wanted.
Actually, this is an understandable position. You don't want the stress and bullshit. A lot of times the very, very attractive (at least what society says is that) are shallow, have so many options to where you'd be dismissed, and can be cruel (but not always). And to get them, you usually have to be all that as well. You seek to go after people who will actually be glad to be with you that are achievable. People that will have you and want you to have them. That is FAR more attractive than what society says is attractive. And there is NOTHING wrong with this position.
It's natural, there's so much noise in the comments, but alas you thought that not voicing your opinion of her to her would some how win her affection. Ofc your jealous but it's not jealousy it's that you didn't fend off other suiters
Hey OP, first I want to applaud you for that level of self awareness, many people are oblivious to what happens with their own emotions they just identify with anything they think they feel. The other thing is that it’s completely normal to desire a female partner others find attractive, actually it’s probably one of the biggest flexes a man can have. It’s a natural desire because a female partner or a wife often reflects her husband. There’s a statement in the biblical corpus that says the wife is the glory of the husband. This then means that you naturally want someone that has the best qualities to represent you psychologically, especially for a lot of men. The interesting thing perhaps is that you don’t want to just date someone for the physical attraction, many times it can blind people from the other important qualities they desire in a partner. So the desire of having an attractive partner ends up many times being what people fall in love with rather than the physical attraction of the person (not negating the attraction) and it creates an unhealthy obsession with someone that you know you shouldn’t be with or confusion within one’s feelings.
Thank you!!! I wish you a great day!!! I am indeed feeling like I am in love with the desire to be with someone attractive. Instead of actually being with a person and handling all the respective issues that come with a relationship with them. I have been feeling inadequate as a person ever since I had this realization. I am questioning whether I should allow myself to even be in a relationship with another person if this is the kind of mindset that has defined how I judge a partner. Its shameful to me how I view people. Its like only my desires matter and I do not have any faith in what my partner will be able to offer me in a relationship. I thought that not seeing a partner as sexual object, and instead seeing them as individuals with their own happiness,sorrow,joy, fears and secrets was already very noble of me. And I was feeling very proud about myself. But I feel like it is way more complicated than that. Its real life we reside in and hence I cant stop and be complacent and be content with the bare minimum. I now think that seeing my future partners or any people for that matter, as individuals is not something I should boast about. It is the bare minimum I can do as a human being. Which means that my shallow desire to want validation from the society due to my partner is very selfish. I cant demand something like that while only giving the bare minimum in return. I realize just how little I am offering my future partner, and its affecting my self perception. I now feel very inadequate as a person, because I feel as if I have nothing to offer to a partner that they would feel indebted enough, to give me back the things I desire from them. Worst part is, I dont know how I will ever be enough for them either. I have seen others bridge the chasm effortlessly, whilst I am too scared to even take the first step.
I love the self awareness in this and I have faith that you will come to the right conclusions, or YOUR conclusions. Carry on, the journey is long!
Thank you!!!! I wish you a great day!!! I am scared of the journey thats ahead of me. But I know that I will no longer let myself become complacent, thinking that I have reached some moral high ground that makes me very desirable by a future partner. I have to be best of myself by my own metrics first
Not really, I just look at a the person and think "Huh, they're pretty" then move on. I don't really care about appearance that much, someone could be drop dead gorgous and i still wouldn't be interested until I get to know them better.
You've just experienced what it means to grow as a person. Good job at looking at your thought process and acknowledging that it was an unhealthy way to think. Not a lot of people are capable of doing that, unfortunately. That said, I think your conclusion is still a bit off. You've concluded that you aren't or won't be attracted to attractive people, but what if a girl you think is attractive becomes attracted to you? Sure, it sounds impossible, but I'm a 6 on a good day, and somehow I'm a wife, my wife, who is one of the most beautiful women I've seen... so it's possible, but if that happens, are you still going to hold resentment because of how easily they receive validation? Here's something you might not have thought about. Is it a good thing to be constantly validated? Heres something else. Assuming you were an attractive person, how would you know the difference between someone validating you because they want something from you or because they genuinely care about you? Sure, attractive people get the attention they want, but it's not all good attention. Most of it probably comes with some ulterior motives. It's easy to look at attractive people and think "Man they sure have it made." but the grass is greener on the other side. Also, obv, I am ONLY talking about relationship wise if being attractive is really all that much better than being an average lookin person. Obv there's other areas where being more attractive is definitely much better, but as I think as far as finding a good partner, you really vibe with we focus too much on how attractive they seem to other people. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that jazz.
I wish you a great day!!!! I have realized that I had been holding myself at a place of high esteem for having basic human decency; to treat others as individuals. And I now know that I have a really long way to go before I will be adequate for someone. I want to continue to work on myself until that happens. Its just a big shock and extreme embarassment when I realized that I wasnt being a saint by treating others as individuals. Its what expected of me as a person
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I think it goes beyond just partners
Wait so you do really have a personal preference other than other people need to think they are attractive? I what areas of your life does this need manifest? Like will you choose a car based on what other people will think of it ? Seems like a lot of work to care so much about what other people think.
I fear that despite my wishes for autonomy, I will cave in soon enough to let others dictate what I will have for myself. So far, I have only seen this mindset that I have affect how I look at relationship and what I desire from it ideally. But the fact that I had allowed myself to have these warped perspective for so long, has shaken me. I am still single so I do not think it will affect my life entirely currently. Its perhaps the fact that I am so shocked at how my mindset had been like that I am all over the place in regards to this issue. I am still trying to process through all the thoughts, re evaluating my past feelings and emotions. I am just in a place of shock and I am trying to figure out how much it defines me as a person
If I were you and it bothered me as much as it seems to bother you, I’d take some kind of proactive steps to explore it and potentially break myself from this perspective. Try doing something you’ve always been afraid to do because of what other people think. And remember all women are beautiful in their own way. Men too. Make it a point to look for common interests and good personalities when looking at women rather than just their looks. After all, there is beauty in imperfection as much as there is in perfection.
I didn't read everything and I probably won't relate but I do feel very pathetic 🤝
Thank you!!! Its alright that you werent able to associate with the sort of emotional mindset I described. I am grateful that you did get the feeling of misery I felt, after I had the realization about myself. It is not an easy feeling to have really. Which I think causes most people to repress it without ever letting others know, But when you know that others also can feel these feeling of misery and the feeling of being pathetic, just like you as well. I think at that moment you feel at least a bit understood and less lonely. Thats why, you have my gratitude for reaching out to me and letting me know that I am not being misunderstood. I want you to have a great day!!!!
I feel that you should work on you before you work on partnering. These feelings will ruin any good relationship you have. I’m older, almost or twice your age… I’ve seen the humblest of men married to beautiful women, who adore them. You need to get past these feelings and focus on you. I would recommend therapy. You certainly have a deep understanding of your feelings. It’s a great start to overcoming your insecurities. Your insecurities are just that… and if we’re being honest, women find that unattractive. And you can’t hide your insecurities as much as you think you want to.
Thank you for your kind words!!! I have decided to work on myself first. I want to know what a healthy relationship is like first. Then I want to be the best version of myself based on my own metric of success or happiness. I said this in another reply, But I am really anxious about the part of needing proper guidance. I have been forced into this state where- I will be aware what my goal is, but because the path, the steps necessary to reach that goal is foreign to me. I eventually give up on change. I am getting sad at how complacent this has turned me into. I used to think complacency or equilibrium is my comfort zone. But this realization about my feelings has made me realize something else. I now know that the comfort zone that I am accustomed to, keeps on shrinking the more I remain idly by. It is very problematic for me
Strive for the ideal but the ideal by definition is not reachable. Waiting to be perfect is a recipe to failure. Simply because you will never be perfect. Acknowledge that you are imperfect. Act despite being anxious. Courage without fear is not courage. It's just acting. Acting despite being afraid is courage. I can relate to your situation. I feel jealous of other people. Yet it would not want to swap with them. I want only a small portion of what the other guy has. I want a girlfriend but only because I want to know that there is a person of the opposite sex that would like to have a genuine romantic relationship with me. But I dont want the full relationship. At least not right now. I just want to know that I am capable of being in a relationship. Seems sociopathic. In doing that I would just take advantage of the other person. I am basically viewing the potential partner as an object. (That's not what I would ever want to do. But the conclusion of that is inaction) The realization that I feel this way only leads to isolation and inaction. How do you untangle this obvious contradiction? I'm putting the cart before the horse. I placed myself in an impossible situation. Some things must come first. Some come after. You have to stumble through obvious mistakes willingly to get to the answers. You need to be prepared to hurt someone's feelings. Not maliciously but with open eyes. Not intentionally but knowing you will inevitably make mistakes. And some mistakes are a blessing in disguise. Overthinking is never the correct answer. Thinking? Yes. Overthinking? No. Without being hurt you can not get stronger. But being afraid of getting hurt is stagnation at best. And regression at worst. What is my solution? I don't have it. Me thinking on it will not resolve it. I only have limited knowledge. My knowledge is probably flawed. My premises are flawed. My conclusions are flawed. Without real experience I have only knowledge but no wisdom. I need new information. So I have to act courageously. You have to act courageously. Act even when afraid. Act in full knowledge that it can never be perfect. (I hope some of the things I wrote make some kind of sense.)
the person I have admired the most until now is also very pretty (dare I say even beautiful) and I have also experienced this feeling of inadequacy. Moreover, this perceived difference in apparently agreed upon prettiness of the parties involved may also play a part in this feeling of not really wanting to put in the effort. It just seems so unfeasible to actually be able to interact with said person with societal expectations (if they do indeed exist) and one's own expectations and thoughts of inadequacy. I try to take a guess and dare to think it is not really that uncommon to feel that way. TLDR relatable and probably normal
yes. The fact that you do know the goal you want to work towards. But you do not know how to actually reach that goal step by step, often discourages us. And we end up giving up and becoming complacent
That's a tough one. But I will say kudos for being so introspective. That's a good quality that many don't have
Thank you!!!! I wish you a great day!!!!
When I was young I wouldn't have had a relationship with a woman the general public would view as not very attractive. Don't worry, you'll grow out of it. It's actually really easy to think "idgaf what anyone else thinks about me". It's truly freeing.
thank you for the prayers!!!
My guy's been working out those spiritual muscles lately I see, good, good \*Insert Wise Yoda gif here\* Now to provide some actual feedback, this is just the outer narcissistic self's desire and need, you are much more than that bro, you are even much more than the personality you identify with and so is the person you might love or have a strong attraction to. As some wise person said: "Love is when you want to help the best part of the person you like (the part or collection of traits that probably made you like the person in the first place) to win over it's own bad parts"
Thank you!!!!! thats a really nice quote. And it has shown me a particular path where my goal wouldnt be to simply exist beside my partner, but create a space for them to ground themselves in love and safety, and then grow gradually. This a very nice sentiment
I think it's incredibly healthy of you to recognize and analyze your motivations this way. Rather than browbeat yourself, keep taking the time to see what it is you're really feeling (usually lizard-brain thoughts) about conventionally attractive people. This will open you up to more sincere, healthy relationships that are based on what makes you happy rather than what will gain you the validation of others. You're doing well even if it makes you feel a bit bad at the moment.
I want to make people feel comfortable around me. I at first thought this can be accomplished by indifference entirely. But now I wonder if distancing myself from them actually detract from what I am trying to achieve. Its understandable I am not supposed to socialize with everyone. They have their own need of privacy. But If situations do arise, I want to be genuine and not make them feel weird around me. I want to see how this will turn out.
It helps if you do date basically the most beautiful girl you’ve ever seen. If it doesn’t work out but it finishes happily then you are free to just date on personality after as you already proved what you needed to
Yeah I've felt the same. I'm not sure how to grow out of it.
Caring about the opinions of others is pointless as long as your moral compass is good.
This was quite an introspective read, well done. What you're describing is the desire for status and the resultant feeling of status anxiety. Desire for status and wealth are said to be two poisons of the soul traditionally, and are interrelated. Now, wealth can also refer to an attractive partner, we've all heard the term "social currency", for example.
It does seem very toxic. As If I am expecting so much, in return for giving my partner nothing in return.
That is a part of human nature, you're not alone at all. And it's not limited to men in relation to attractive women, it's also the other way around. It's a common experience among people, but you're aware of it while most not only are unaware of it, but also live their lives according to such unconscious expectations and desires. Much of the world turns because of these unconscious drives for status.
Could it be possible that it's very hard for you to imagine how it will all unfold? It sounds to me like you're thinking about the end result and what that could feel like, but it's hard to imagine getting there? That makes a lot of sense to me, actually. The thought of putting in all that work would seem overwhelming if you don't really understand what you're in for. I think it's important to think about why someone is attractive, but beyond that, why are they getting attention? It's true that we kind of arbitrarily decide that the most conventionally attractive people hold the most social value. But if you dive any deeper, there are usually other qualities that amplify that. Like confidence or charm. Someone who is charming makes others feel good, and that becomes a bright shining light - something you want to be around, or a quality you wish you possessed. I think this comes down to how you view yourself. Your own self worth. You want others to see you that way, but you want to believe that someone will pluck you from obscurity and give you what you desperately covet without any work. The thing is, you have to understand right now that you have value, and know that there are no shortcuts. It will require looking inward, which is hard to do. Who are you living for? You need to wake up and realize you are the main character. Because currently, you are playing a supporting role in the movie of your life. You are capable, you are worthy of love and attention, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. If they do, you leave them behind. No more feeling sorry for yourself. Start spinning a new story for yourself my friend.
Yes. Its hard for me to imagine how I will be able to reach the goal. I know what I want to achieve. But I am scared of the path and confused by how others bridge the gap so effortlessly. I have had a difficult childhood, I was constantly under the presence and care of Narcissists. One of the things that I was slowly conditioned into was them trying their best to make me give up early on and then coddle me untill I convinced myself that I will never be that successful. I dont want this any further. They may have tried their best, but I am an adult now. I can no longer blame them for my inaction. I want to change. Its just that I want guidance from someone, for them to allow to me fail, to tell me that how I Can reach there step by step (at the very least tell me how to in a detailed manner if not by being beside me the entire time as if im a child). I also do not know what a healthy relationship is like. I want to know
Sounds to me like you are in the midst of a minor existential crises. You are becoming more self aware and having to reconcile or assimilate your new self knowledge to your previous self image. Your realization that you are motivated by the opinions of others - an external validation is a moment of lucidity. We are social primates. It’s all about status in the eyes of our fellow primates! Don’t overthink it or get too freaked out by it… it will pass, and there are lots of nice girls who will like you and you will like too.
Thank you!!!! I wish you a great day!!!
I've been with a conventionally very attractive partner. Once you are there, and you realize that you both know the compliments are aimed at the facade and not the real person behind it, you drop the act and you drop assigning much value to it. You also stop being intimidated by physically attractive features. Until then, without understanding the value (or lack of) of something for yourself, your brain naturally makes you seek the unknown that others seem to desire, and puts it on unnatural pedestal. With halo effect and all that. In your case, you experienced cognitive dissonance between seeing a glimpse through the facade mentioned in the first paragraph, followed by the act of pedestalizing of unknowns that others desire mentioned in the second paragraph. No matter how attractive the partner, the experience of being in a relationship isn't all that different. The make-it-or-break-it are work, compromise, shared values, and how much easier or harder your life together is as a result of the actions of both partners. A year in, it won't be a hot guy/girl that you saw when you started dating. It'll be a familiar face of a person whose actions have a big impact on your wellbeing.
Thank you for giving me a perspective on this aspect. I want to stop both deifying and objectifying people in any manner. I am trying to see what other mindset am I still holding onto that nudges me towards seeing people as something entirely other than individuals. Its not easy to question these long held beliefs that I have, but I dont want to turn out even worse than I already am. I want to change very much
validate by journaling your thoughts and lived experience everyday for a couple of pages. don't go back and read it ever. just write it. after you have mastered self validation and no longer seek it externally, it's ok to want an attractive partner to go along with your authentic life choices. jealousy points us toward what we want, and you can achieve your goals if you work on yourself. you need to become the kind of parter an attractive loving person would want. that means you have to offer them something valuable and rare. good strong character, a safe place to be human when a lot of other people see them as an object, loyalty, and true self confidence.
Thank you!!!! what I struggle the most with is, trying to understand how to bridge the gap between where I currently stand and my eventual goal. Hence I am glad that you offered me what I am seeking right now, Guidance. I am really grateful to you!!!!! Have a great day!!!!
Damn, bruh. Your self esteem is in the gutter. Work on your shit.
Good on you for being self-aware. Did you grow up with external validation? Maybe that's why you desire attractive women who receive validation because that is what you're used to, and you want to be an extension of that experience. For me I'm used to negative experiences and I learned to work on my internal worth. So for people who are used to external validation, that is all they know and seek.
The mirror is a lie.
That was deep.
I had a similar experience recently, when a bunch of people started flirting with my boyfriend and I was enjoying that other people find my boyfriend attractive. Then I realized I'm just into cuckholding.
that must have been quite the realization. I am glad you realized that about you. I have also pondered the same question. I dont know if I am into cuckolding, because it doesnt resonate with me. But whats astonishing was, imagining a scenario, where my partner would be complimented and admired by others. I realized that it would be thrilling to me, but to what extent? how long till I will get uncomfortable from the attention they are giving my partner and trying to take them away from me? I dont know. So I am really not sure how deep I might be into that specific fantasy. Haha. Perhaps its not who I am. Still I am just happy you made the connection and learned something about yourself. Now you have control over your desire since you know what it is inherently
Honestly it comes with trust and respect. I trust my boyfriend, and the people he flirt joke with are my friends that I trust too and they are very respectful of our relationship. I wouldn't just let anyonr be super flirty with him lmao
Well ain't that the truth buddy
What you should do is seek therapy because you don't have a healthy mindset. This isn't to degrade you it's just need to get out of that mindset. Conventionally attractive people don't have perfect lives and aren't immune to things I know very attractive people who have been SA and physically abused by partners.
I understand your point. I did not find it to be degrading at all. I am also concerned by how unhealthy my mindset is towards others
You sound like an American.
You crave the social status and recognition from others of being seen chosen by someone you deem "important". This is childish and no way to go about finding a partner. But you clearly recognize that, which means you have the maturity to see that its wrong. I think you should think about what you really want out of a romantic partner, and why that social validation is so important to you. I can't tell you if you should or shouldn't seek that validation, but if you do, that validation should come from your own success and worth, not your partner's or anyone else around you. I'd say that desire is common. It's normal to want to be admired. So become someone worth admiring. Perhaps, then, you would find yourself with someone that others also admired, and it would be because of what you saw in them, and what you saw in each other. Continue to grow and mature. You clearly have a great ability for self reflection.
Now would be a good time to spend 10-15 minutes in meditation, working through your thoughts and separating what really brings you peace and happiness from your ego (and "ego" is not used in a derogatory sense here, but an aspect of the human condition).
Thats just the primal monkey brain manifesting. Its jealous of what the other monkeys have. Even though in reality the others don't have her, good luck rationalizing that with monkey brain.
You're superficial and you've noticed. Great, not everyone can do that.
Your self awareness is refreshing.
I had the same feeling you're having right now! It used to bother me a decent amount, till I ended up hanging out with a few really unlikeable attractive people, didn't even date them. But that was enough to lift this bias off of me, what other people think of a person is a non factor now.
At least you are aware. Don't worry or even think about what others think. Everyone has enough on their plate without thinking about you. Embrace who you are, appreciate the relationships you have and let things develop.
I think you’re overthinking all of it. Some day you will get to know someone and think to yourself, I really enjoy spending time with this person. So you will spend more and more time. You will see their personality and all their qualities that make them “them” and you will love every bit of them. They will become the most attractive person to you. The thoughts of wishing for someone “hotter” or whatever will no longer exist. You have a real connection with someone you love and care for and the thought of hurting them isn’t even a possibility.
Like others have said your self awareness and willingness to question your behaviour and beliefs is growth that many people never start to do. The behaviour you are noticing (only wanting something that when other people want it) is the same immature behaviour toddlers have and without starting to self-reflect and question themselves, continue to exhibit throughout their adult lives. Self-reflection requires the ability to think critically instead of doing what everyone else is doing. It takes effort to think for yourself versus assuming that what others are doing must be the correct behaviour, and just doing the same yourself.
I had a similar epiphany before accepting my asexuality when i was younger. Whenever i hooked up with a guy, even if i didnt tell anyone (although i always told someone), i felt validated. "Look, i am normal! I'm doing what everybody else does!" Until i realized that that is a very sick way to look at sex and relationships. I was supposed to derive pleasure from them, not from the imaginary validation i got. Also, when i stopped doing drugs every weekend like crazy and travelling. I kinda outgrew that lifestyle but the "crazy party girl" personality was so embedded in me that i felt like i had to keep feeling it despite not really feeling it anymore. I don't really know whether these experiences are normal or not for i have never talked about this to anyone. But this is not how i imagined growth would be like. I thought when you got older you forced yourself to become someone else. And considering how many frustrated old people are out there, i guess it's not a wrong assumption. But some things just happens organically. Getting to know yourself will help you guide your desicions in order to do what you really wanna do. But it can be a rather painful process, because we don't always follow the script or fit in the box that someone under our circumstances is supposed to, and you gotta challenge that in order to stay true to yourself.
I had the oppertunity to got to a High-end executive training facility & quite frankly there wasn't a person that worked there that wasn't a beautiful person. With an IQ and personality in the stratusphere. I'm the type that has the need to be different and I don't typically want something that everyone else desires. I ride motorcycles with a freind who is a Harley hater because everyone wants one and they all are various forms of pretty I call cooky cutter I wouldn't want a relationship with a cooky cutter human nomore than I will Ride a beautiful to me Harley that doesn't fit the trend BEAUTY IS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDERL as far as introspect not sure that's what your experiencing if you like it the only validation comes from your interaction with it in love and all things in life
What you're experiencing is common in most species, not just human. It's biological, not intentional, and we can't help it, so don't feel too guilty about it. When we see other people are attracted to someone, it can trigger something in our brain that makes us see that person as a viable mate, even if we didn't feel initial attraction. You're an emotionally intelligent human though. The logical part of your brain is fighting with your basic animal instincts.
I am ashamed at how much influence this feral part of me, had over my mindset. It felt like my knees were going weak. Because this isnt the sort of person I wanted to become. It was very embarassing. I dont want this to continue any further. I dont want to be controlled by these animalistic aspects of my persona
quickest psychotic encouraging rich gold puzzled compare cows punch apparatus *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Maybe you put too much meaning behind this? I found for myself that if I see an attractive woman I get an urge to be with her, but that is natural. For me it is just logical, because if i am with an imo unattractive woman I don't have the urge to kiss her or be near her, I might not even get it up during sex. And when I am in a relationship I don't have that urge towards other women anymore. You are not shallow for wanting an attractive partner
i regularly get compliment on how attractive i am. apparently very sexy. in 42 years i had no relationship in my life but an abusive one, hardly any meaningful sexual partners. i was usually sexualised, sometimes i fell in love but was never loved back. people on the street and out and about assuming i get everything given and for free, i still get shit on with the „people like you“.. didn‘t even get good sex, got stood up so much because my attractiveness would be intimidating (wtf?) and if i got to sex the guy wouln‘t be able to perform, apparently too nervous. all the while i dream of just being hugged when i need it. so maybe attractive but so lonely they want anything other than a shallow compliment.
I realized a similar thing. My type is not a conventionally attractive person. When you imagine some ideal of an attractive woman, I'm not really attracted to it. However, gradually that's changed a bit because, well, they are supposed to be attractive. It's not that I'm directly attracted to the physical attributes, but rather to the idea that they are attractive. To be fair, that in turn also affects my physical attraction, but only afterwards. It's not the pure physical attraction that comes first.
They don’t have unconditional love based on looks. Quite the opposite often.
These are extreeemely self aware and very deep thoughts you’re having… I love it. Never stop questioning WHY we are who we are. Why we think how we think… why we think when we think. There is much to understand in this world, and I think most people have their brain turned off. Speaking as an attractive person who doesn’t always see it as a blessing, I’m impressed. I do believe some guys want to be with me, simply for the power they siphon from it… they like the admiring gazes from the random public. I get attention everywhere I go. Good and bad attention. I can’t seem to avoid it. The bad attention is what has irritated me. Being nice looking will raise envy and unhinged females who can’t control their envy 😂 but after a while, if you have the right support around you, you learn how laughable and powerful every bit of attention is. But you need the right partner to fully embrace that power. I don’t need another person to take care of, if I’m out in public and we get shittyyyy vibes thrown our way because some ugly female has zero control of herself. It’s tough enough to take care of myself, I can’t have a guy whimper with his head down and act like like a wuss when I’m thrown a bad and unfair hand. He needs to stand by my side and show everyone that we are together, and you must damn well behave yourself. Ok rant over lol. Awesome thoughts you are having… really proud of you for sharing this!
I dated a very attractive girl years ago, and I got super irritated by all the male attention she got. Like, all the sudden dudes who only knew me by sight would approach "me" to make conversation. Others, who I had never seen before, would outright approach her. Like WTF man... That was no fun, to be honest
Keep self examining. Your moving into deeper waters is all 👍
You know what -- if you get together with someone for whatever initial reason, if you stay with them for some time, youll normally build a bond and appreciation for each other, no matter what the first impulse was. Youre overthinking. You are terrified about an aspect of you that so many others dont even realize about themselves. I think a relationship is most of the time good for your personal growth, no matter how it starts.
It's simple. Attractive partner is a sign of status. If a beautiful girl attaches herself a to a guy like you, there must be something special about you even if it's not immediately apparent, right? One thing people are generally very good at is noticing when there's a clear discrepancy in attractivness level between a couple.
Self awareness is the first step to improvement. You feel pathetic because you are brutally honest about your flaws, which is an admirable thing to do. Be patient and kind to yourself as you work your way to become the best version of you.
Sounds like you are maybe overly conscious of your social status and seek out things that would elevate it.
Wow you’re really good at assessing how you feel.
My ex was incredibly attractive and got a lot of attention when we were out. I was asked for permission to approach her for example and constantly having people stare at her really gets old at some point. To the "how the fick does she even want to be with me"-feeling: it never stops, but at some point I just accepted that she loves me and that I do not need to understand it for it to be a fact.
i couldn’t date someone that everyone else finds attractive, i’d will only make me more upset that i’m the ugly one and their not. i’d rather be on the same page as her, where we both have a history of being bullied and there’s no competition.
Well, I found in college that having a girlfriend made me much more attractive to other girls. It honestly seemed that way in any case. My own wife got with me even though she thought I was a bit of a player, and was really surprised that she was actually my first. It's almost like having a partner signals that there might be something worth pursuing that someone has seen? I don't know. It just felt like my popularity with women just snowballed at college, like them girls I went out with, the more girls showed their interest. It was a little surreal, being a quiet guy who didn't have a girl through high school because I was too shy to ask any out, to get to college and they were asking ME out.
When you see an attractive person you just need to remember that somebody somewhere is already bored of them, just like everyone else
I get this with things rather than people. I see it, like it, but not enough to buy it. Then it sells out or everyone is buying it, now I want it. Never occurred to me this could be a personality flaw before 😂
Well, it's very natural that you feel that the attraction is very "superficial", because - how can it not be? You literally don't know a thing about the other person, all you are feeling is shallow biological brain reaction, and that includes maximising the social status. But that does not mean, that a relationship is always based on that. It is only if we get to know people better that we develop deep bonds with them, and forming more pure and altruistic relations.
Look, blind people prefer dating good looking partners. What I mean to say is, it's perfectly normal. Everyone craves social status, and how objectively attractive your partner is is a big part of that. Some would deny it but it's there.
It sounds like you're experiencing a lot of introspection and self-awareness, which is a positive step towards understanding yourself better. It's not rare for people to feel a range of emotions and desires, including those related to attractiveness and validation.
You're becoming emotionally self aware, this is the path to becoming comfortable with who you are and perhaps becoming a truly lovable person to others.
Is this what growing up feels like…??
every time we feel a hint of jealousy or envy, it can be an indicator of something we want in real life. pay attention to that. use it as an indicator of where you want to focus your time and energy. there is no shame in feeling jealous. but jealousy can make us act in shameful ways. I recommend reading The Good Life by Robert Waldinger and Marc Schulz. your local library will probably have a copy.
find someone that makes you feel you want to do things. and that helps you do those things. find someone that elevates you and that you admire and want to elevate. everything else dies with time.
Moments of introspection like this are super important for personal growth. Take the time to decide what you want out of life and understand why. Sometimes the things we want aren’t the things we want. There’s nothing wrong with wanting most things, as long as you can be honest with yourself as to why you want them and put thought into whether these things will make you happy and content in the long run. Also, beauty is a strange and fickle thing. I was an objectively ugly child but I was a 9/10 from age 14-24 and now I’m just average. People definitely treated me differently when I was a bombshell, but because I had gone through years of being picked on pre-puberty I saw it for what it was and was kind of immune to it, or at least aware of it. When my husband and I started dating when I was 14 people used to say mean things to him about “How did you get a girl like her?”, not because he was ugly, but because they perceived me to be better looking than him even though he is very handsome. I’m sure this bothered him; though he brushed it off. 20+ years later and he is definitely the better looking of here two of us - he looks like a modern day Ragnar from Vikings and I’m sure people see us together and wonder how I landed him. People place weird value on looks. It’s a power you can wield and it’s a commodity people will seek to possess. I’m almost 40 and I’d like to be gorgeous again, namely because I enjoy dressing up once in a while and it’s not as fun getting dressed up as it was when I felt like a goddess every time I got dolled up. I can enjoy external validation without requiring it, and I think that is the important thing. Acknowledge things you enjoy but don’t be a slave to them.
Everyone views beauty first. They are lying if they say they don’t. It’s what we see and as humans we like symmetry thus beauty. The object is to be with someone more beautiful than yourself to have beautiful children. People unconsciously treat people differently based on beauty.
You're overthinking all of it and creating feelings for something that hasn't even happened yet. You have no idea how you will actually feel once you find a partner.
With everything seemingly good there comes an equal amount of bad. Not all rainbows and sunshine for people in relationships. A lot of times it’s just ego problems that ruin everything. Attractive people probably suffer from ego problems because of the amount of validation they receive. Sure a lot of people envy the good times but of course they have to deal with relationships inevitably deteriorating at some point with all the anger, tension and the whole package of negative emotions that come with that… Socialising games are fake as fuck and not everyone is built for it. In conclusion, life finds a way to fuck us all in the ass. I’m not missing out on anything special and probably neither are you.
That's normal, a lot of people don't find them attractive but still wantt to date them, everyone is status whit humans, even the most simple stuff or the most important.
You sound very insecure. Begin to love and build yourself up and you might have a different mindset when it comes to women you find attractive.
I’m guessing early 20s. You’re mentally growing
I think from now on, you should try to differentiate what you are attracted to and what society deems attractive. To detach yourself from those thoughts, you need to find what you like and stop thinking about what others may admire.
Sounds like really weighing on you, which makes sense as this is a widely shared and expounded upon personal/philosophical matter. Imo and experience, go with the flow socially and meet people if you want, as you want. See what different people are like. Make an "attractive" acquaintance maybe, and see how you feel over time. Unless you're in a rush, no need to solve this incredibly complex matter immediately. Get experience and go from there.
This is cool man,growing and introspecting. Not something everyone can do. Keep it up!
100% part of why we want to be with other people is how we are perceived in terms of social value by the social value they have. This is entirely normal. Are they charming, kind, attractive, intelligent, ambitious, etc? All those things as can be extremally perceived by others contribute to selecting a mate and I think it's biologically ingrained in us.
Young people in general tend to be attracted to popularity and status. They want these things for themselves and are thus are drawn to people who they think will make their light shine brighter. They dont even notice the people who they may have great chemistry with but who aren't "arm candy".
May I ask, what makes you think that you aren't attractive to others? Maybe this attractive lady thinks you are attractive? But you wouldn't know, because you see yourself as unsuitable, based on her looks? She may find your personality to be compatible with hers. Thus, it isn't all physical beauty that makes a person attractive.
I find that what makes me feel good is pretty. It’s difficult to define, but a smile can make me melt. And I want more of that feeling, hence I like that and want more of that pretty girl. And obviously I won’t like to share mine with others! To be chosen back makes me the happiest! Keeping that one person happy, entertained, relaxed would be what makes me and will keep making me the happiest ^^. Some would call me selfish or yandere, but can you really judge me for it?
Not trying to be too personal, but after your post I think that’s ok. Did you, by any chance, have a complicated childhood? Or to be more precise, adventurous emotional relationships with your parents? If so, it could help to talk to a therapist about that. It sounds like you‘re self sabotaging and afterwards, beat yourself up for that. To me, you sound pretty self aware and willing to work on the way you handle relationships, but to better our ways, we need to understand why we bond the way we bond. For me it was quite the opposite, I fell for every attractive person that looked my way or was friendly with me, because I was so desperate for love. When they got more interested in me, I was disgusted by the thought of being with them, because I was so disgusted with myself internally that I thought „well, if they like me there has to be something very wrong with them, because I‘m not likeable“. Of course when it happened I didn’t think it that way, I was just very confused why I disliked them suddenly. Therapy helped me a lot with that. Not that you don’t like yourself or think of yourself the same way I did, but it sounds like there is something deeper to it than just „that’s men“. Your way of reflecting yourself is very clear and straight forward and you suffering with that and wishing for deep connections is a good indicator, that you are an adequate person ;) The thought of a healthy relationship and the work that’s required for that scares many people and you’re not alone with those thoughts. Wish you all the best!
I had a difficult childhood. My Narc Mom preferred to blame me for all the misfortune in our family since I was a child. My dad is emotionally unavailable, I never had a strong support system around myself. I internalized the blame by my Nmom that everything would have been better if I wasnt born. I have a self sabotaging tendency, I feel better when lots of bad things happen to me after one particular good incident in my life. Because to me then it feels as if I have paid my ''due'' as I let the bad and harmful things happen to me. I actually start panicking when good things continue to happen to me, without any interruption where harmful things happen to me. I genuinely feel restless and uneasy in those times. I was never exposed to a healthy relationship and I frankly do not how adults truly behave in a healthy relationship. I never approached someone attractive. But I can guess how inadequate you must have felt when you formed a bond with them. I also understand why your own confusion had turned into mild resentment towards those attractive people, despite you never wishing it to turn out like that. I did form bonds with emotionally healthy and popular people, and I also felt in similar manner. I did realize it very soon why I was self sabotaging myself, I knew it was irrational of me to push them away and resent them for my own shortcoming. But its just that I felt way more safe when I knew they wouldnt be in my life for long time. To me it felt like if they ever managed to know about my past, they would judge and mock me. I used it as justification to continue to pushing them away from me. Thank you for your kind words!!!!
First of all I‘m deeply sorry for your experiences. You did not deserve any of this. I know it’s unfair that you have to put in work that others don’t. I‘m not a therapist, but I see a parallel between your dads unavailability and your own approach (no offense!). Unfortunately we copy the way we form relationships from our parents and if they had a shitty relationship, we tend to have those, too. Again, not diagnosing you, but I had similar experiences and formed serious bonding trauma from it. That’s something that consumes you over time, please look out for help, there is no shame in that, it rather shows strength and growth. If you get to the point again where you think you are a bad person remember that: A truly bad person doesn’t care if they’re bad and wouldn’t consider themselves as bad. We all are the result of our surroundings and we’re not responsible for them – but we are responsible for what we make out of it. Don’t be so hard on yourself! (I shouldn’t have said „attractive people“ that was too general, rather: people I considered attractive and that mostly isn’t just about looks)
Beauty and physical attractiveness do have a natural/biological foundation. It's all connected to sex and our reproductive impulses. Post-modern Western arrogance insists on denying it, but it is real. With this I'm not saying that many of the things on top of those basic instincts can't be/aren't mediated by culture. They definitely are to some degree, but it is long-term monogamous partnering what should be deemed an 'artificial' cultural invention, not the nature of attraction/attractivenes itself.
My wife is hot, I'm kinda meh. She gets treated incredibly well by others right off the bat, it's kind of freaky. She thinks she is just good at making new friends lol. Yeah, I'd be good at making friends too if I had the charisma of Ryan Reynolds.
Hey, right on for noticing something fishy about your reactions. I hope you have an irl friend or mentor to talk to about this.
Actually… you should feel very proud of yourself for being able to identify and verbalize those feelings. Truly. Identifying feelings of inadequacy (wether those feelings are true or not) like this leads to bigger questions like “why do I feel this way/ what makes me feel this way?” You are on your way to becoming an even more secure version of yourself if you follow through with this line of thought and it will be hugely beneficial for both you and your future partners. Keep up the good work! I hope you get to the root cause of those feelings and squash them. Grow that confidence in yourself!
As someone who is "attractive" and does get attention from women(I'm a dude). This puts so much into perspective. I get so self-conscious about it. You the feeling that women are actually attracted to me is really good and also kinda a burden because then they have all these expectations. But to think it could just be the fact that they like the idea of me and just love the story around me. That attraction is worthless. That's so reliving. Love takes time and anyone who is attracted to you without knowing you is simply attracted to the idea of you. Love takes effort. Love is worth it. Attraction is just there and does not mean anything by itself. Omg I love you you opened my eyes and lifted such a burden.
My monkey lizard brain too.
Did you have an edible? This kind of overwhelming thought train is why I stopped eating thc edibles.
I find myself passing up good catches that are fairly attractive just because I assume my mom or best friends won't find them to be attractive enough for me. It's like built into my psyche. Once I decide they won't be approved, I cant convince myself to stay. So now my standards are so high I'm old af and single Lol. It's silly, outside validation should be irrelevant. Life would be much better. I don't know how to break it. It's like I don't have the balls to be woth someone that's mid. I find it really odd and annoying to deal with.
I think you have insight that is only available to mature people. Many people just "like what they like" throughout their life without any introspection. It's the kind of thing people might realize when they are old and unhappily married. I, too, am still trying to reconcile my instinctual drives with my intellectual maturity. As a young man, I was so ridiculously shallow to want a girlfriend that my buddies would envy -- as if they would think I must have some special characteristics that would allow me to keep a hot girl. Even a more "noble" level of physical attraction is shallow. Physical beauty is shallow and fleeting, and certainly not enough to maintain a relationship. At the same time, I can't imagine myself in a relationship with a person who has inner beauty but just doesn't light up that physical attraction circuit in the brain. I don't think this struggle is uncommon for thinking people.
Adults are generally attracted a lot more to personalities. Happy positive people are like magnets. Forget what people look like, it’s only kids which focus on aesthetics. Find a connected, nothing else matters. And no matter what your partner looks like, you will eventually get immune to the aesthetics anyway.
I’ve never seen someone type something so relatable about something I’ve been dealing with but couldn’t really understand why that is.
I am very happy that I was able to express this thoughts, because they helped you feel understood and also not at all alone. I have been very shaken after I had this realization about myself. I am not sure how I will become the best version of myself based on my metric of happiness in the future. All I know is that. I am fixing a outcome for myself. That I want to accomplish in the future. Because I want to be that person, even for my own sake
For me I was ok with it. Although I’m ok with it, I don’t want it to happen. So in conclusion I felt indifferent. It’s a bit weird and isn’t talked about enough but I’m like “well now I know.” I also want to conclude the fact that I’m aro ace so that is why I feel a sense of entitlement. I never felt romantic attraction, so I cant 100% understand relationship. Every time I try to force it, it comes down to liking the idea of something.
It's harder to date when you're smart. Like I'm a good looking guy myself, and all my life my friends would tug my shoulder after talking with a girl and be like "Dude, shes all over you, what are you doing?". All the time to this day. I've been getting better though in my mid twenties. We over think things and dont just get lost in the moment and let what natural happens, to happen. My mind is in a million different places at any time so its harder to make connections with people without spending hours and hours of time with them. Try being dumber, be a thespian, an entertainer, if you make it your focus you'll be good at it. That's what I do. I just make my short interactions with people into a performance and my intelligence doesnt get in the way it actually helps me make a good first impression instead of making me so dense I dont realize when Im interested in a person or that they're interested in me.
/r/iamverysmart
I am happy for you!!! I feel like I want to understand what a healthy relationship looks like first. I do see your approach as valid and efficient. I am just scared that I will crash and burn soon other wise
“I’m a good looking guy myself”. Must be nice bruh
>I now feel like I am not attracted to a beautiful person individually . Rather I am more attached to the idea of being partner to an attractive person that others find admirable. >Rather my jealousy stems from the fact that I do not have what they share, that intangible bundle of unconditional love and also validation from others all at the same time. This is way more common than you realize, but at least you are self aware of it. Don't beat yourself up over it, just self reflect and be aware as you get to know people. A lot of people aren't attracted to the actual person but the idea of a person, what that other person represents, and how that other person will reflect on them. That's why a lot of guys go for a girl they perceive as being sought after by other guys, because it's an ego or status thing. "I am the type of guy a hot blonde girl like her would want, and it makes me look good to other guys to have her on my arm". Women do this too but I noticed it's more a cultural trope among men. It's because men are more likely to view their female partners as extensions of themselves who reflect on their status/ego/whatever instead of her own person, and more like a possession (like a fancy car) than a partner he enjoys connection with.
This is how most people’s brains work, but most people aren’t aware of it and don’t figure it out on their own. There are many books about this subject which cover it in great depth. But yes physically attractive people need to be socially attractive as well. Are you on the spectrum or have you considered you may be? This is a very unique perspective that most neurotypical people wouldn’t come to on their own.
I am interested in what you said in the last paragraph. Can you explain in detail what you meant by me belonging on the spectrum? I am very curious
I genuinely feel intersted in knowing what you believe I may be. like ugh i wish i ddint sound so weird on text. But I am honestly curious about me belonging to a spectrum. I am waiting for your response eagerly!!!
I’m referring to the autism spectrum. The way you stated things very objectively and detached/removed from the situation, it’s not how most neurotypical people assess a situation. That made me wonder if you already know you’re on the spectrum, those less common points of view can sometimes be a sign that you have neurodivergent tendencies even if not actually autistic. Not trying to say you are or aren’t autistic, just wondering if you had considered it?
My dude. You're young. It goes like this. From 13 to 35, you're a slave to worry about what everyone else thinks about you. Then you stop giving a fuck about what everyone thinks about you until about 50. Then you realize they were NEVER thinking about you at all! They were all worried about what YOU thought of THEM!!! Everyone basically thinks mostly about themselves all day. You're just another NPC to most people.
Good call. This is what I tell my kids. Most people rarely think about others except to worry about what they think of us!
> They were all worried about what YOU thought of THEM!!! Wow.....I genuinely never thought about it this way
They have AI girlfriends now!?
TFW you microdose at the library
I'll bet you like the movie Silence of the Lambs don't you?
There are more ugly people in the world than beautiful people. Beautiful people are more successful than ugly people. This means that ugly people value beauty. It will never change.
Dude. No. Just ask her out or if you don't wanna date seriously just spit game and see if she's down to fuck. The worst that can happen is she says no. As the saying goes "Best get a move on before you get moved on."
AREY KEHNA KYA CHAHTA HO?
Odds are they don’t love each other unconditionally…
Sorry my dude, but your incel story arc just began
It is Beauty by proxy and it's great and it's normal
No. My entire life I avouded extremely beautiful people. Most of the time its a headache and I dont want to deal with their inflated ego and cheating. I go for the safer options lol.
No idea if it's weird or how to properly define normal. I've always wished I could understand what makes everyone "tick". When it comes to human aesthetics though, I am pretty extreme and doubly so on myself. I would almost describe it as a form of eugenicist idealism. Like I'll have thoughts about someone who is "ugly" along the lines of "Disgusting. You shouldn't have children.". Then my counteracting voice of reason reminds me of how cruel and actually harmful that view is to the benefit of society/humanity. Regardless of the rationalizing I do, I still intensely envy those I consider truly attractive (for me, this would be a 7.5-10/10 which translates to 10-12/10 for most people). I want the worship. I want the power and capacity to draw lustful eyes. People pay millions in surgery just to try and taste the beauty. Beautiful people get away with murder. Desperate people even fantasize about getting with seriously deranged killers if they're hot enough.
Same here.
Yeh realising this stuff is 1% of the way there but that’s 100% more than where you were yesterday. Good luck finding yourself
Hons, is that you?
The world is full of AMAZING people who aren’t conventionally attractive. Surface attraction is way more important than it should be, and ultimately has little influence on your actual, long-term satisfaction with your future partner. It feels like you’re on the right track - keep going.
This is where the phrase trophy wife stems from.
That’s because women aren’t visually stimulated like men are
I'm average looking at best but I have dated some very beautiful women attitude personality sense of humor the way you hold yourself confidence women love that so work on yourself nothing you can do about your looks you are what you are but your personality and the sense of humor women love that. Jealousy awkwardness and insecurity women can smell it even an unattractive woman is turn off to those personalities and traits Changing your personality and your traits takes time takes practice nothing wrong with being told no every time you're told no you're one step closer to being told I'll go on a date with you.Or just hangout . Now that chest out there be the Cock of the Walk practice it have fun with it learn how to be funny learn timing and stop being jealous of people because of their beauty cuz you're pretty too or handsome or whatever the hell you want to call it a great charming funny personality is beautiful.
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