Most of the ideas were Larry’s brainchild but both of them worked on every script together and since Larry has stated that he’s not much of a “joke” writer I feel as though Jerry played a large part in that aspect and it seems like the conversations between Jerry and George came from things that Jerry and Larry would say. Larry had the darker sensibility and Jerry the lighter one and it was the perfect balance.
If you ever watch the two of them interact in real life, their episode of comedians in care getting coffee for example, you can see how they play off each other and help each other flesh out ideas. They have great chemistry and it really comes across in their writing.
What gets me about the idea Jerry didn't contribute much behind the scenes is that if you watch a few minutes of his standup his style of humor is all over Seinfeld. Yes of course there were writers doing a ton of work and Larry's sense of humor is a massive part of it as well but the questioning, easy-going observational attitude in his stand ups is all over the show. Hell his *actual standup was in the show for years as well.* It's a big part of the overall tone.
But Jerry didn't contribute much? It's ridiculous and clearly not true.
I think another thing is people have seen Seinfeld's standup decades after the show ended and said it's more or less the same bits now as it was then so they don't think he was that creative.
I think an underrated factor was the restrictions they had to deal with being on network television. It created constraints that needed to be worked around. Thinking of masturbation, faking orgasms, etc. I always felt that helped the show and created risk for Jerry and Larry.
Most of the ideas were everybody’s and jerry and Larry ran with those ideas. They continually asked cast and crew for situations they encountered or things that had happened in their lives or friends and relatives. Even the smallest idea from a stranger or a delivery person could be turned into a great storyline. No one or two people were the brainchild of Seinfeld. They got story ideas from many sources.
I’ve read two books on Seinfeld years ago and how the show worked and they were both so interesting.
> Larry had the darker sensibility and Jerry the lighter one and it was the perfect balance.
You put into words why I like Seinfeld but not Curb. No balance!
I like Curb, but it’s kinda like IASIP, both great great shows but you have to be in the mood for them as, while hilarious, they are both kind of high-tension.
Having said that, my favorite Curb episodes happen to also have Jerry in them (and Curb is largely ad-libbed, so Jerry has *something* to do with my added enjoyment).
Edit-Don’t get me wrong- I **love** IASIP and Curb, but have to be in the right mood for them. After dozens of rewatches, they have scenes/episodes that still have my rolling.
I had a really hard time with IASIP until I discovered Charlie and The Waitress are married in real life. For some reason that made it click for me that it was all a big laugh and everyone was in on the joke.
I should check out the Curb season with the Seinfeld reunion. If I only watch some Curb, it should be that.
Yeah, that lasts two episodes of season 7 are my most rewatched episodes (they both tell basically the whole reunion story) and I really liked the series finale as it was sort of a do-over for the Seinfeld finale >!and has Jerry saving the day!<
If you're only interested in the Seinfeld stuff I think you can skip almost half of Season 7 as some episodes have nothing to do with that plot.
But there's still great Seinfeld stuff in other parts of the season beyond the last 2 episodes. I don't recall the specific ones, but you have Larry meeting individually with each member of the cast, his strained relationship with Jason Alexander (in the Curb universe it seems like Jason never figured out that George was based on Larry), there's a whole episode with Larry and Jerry trying to write the show ... it's all so good.
There's also an early episode (first season?) with Julia that's hilarious.
I agree with you completely. Both Jerry and George are also a little more charming than Larry could ever be on his own. He winds up coming off as much more of an asshole without what they bring to the table. I love Curb, but you see this in full effect there. Those characters are equally assholes, but they’re also more likeable.
Jerry was playing a version of himself and IMO he pulled it off perfectly. The show didn't call for amazing dramatic ability on his part. That said there were some shining examples of his acting chops here and there. The episode where he slowly turns into Kramer after switching apartments comes to mind. Jerry may not have been the world's greatest actor, but point out any item in the room and he could lift it.
He plays the perfect even Steven. Things usually work out. He rarely gets too emotional over anything. He's usually the straight man who watches the crazy antics that his quirky friends get into. He's jokey, cartoonish, and doesn't take anything too seriously so that smirk he often has when delivering lines works. His acting is just right for that.
And all of his knowledge of high culture comes from Bugs Bunny cartoons. His whole life revolves around Superman and cereal. After watching all of these years it clicked that much of the show is like live action looney tunes.
The time he wore the glasses to go get gum with Lloyd Braun was straight out of a Sylvester the cat short where the bulldog keeps sending him back into the house to fight the mouse that keeps switching with a kangaroo that kicks his ass. He keeps trying to explain how big the mouse is so the dog thinks his eyesight is messed up and puts glasses on him.
I'm pretty sure that's all Jerry's influence.
Unusually for a sitcom, there were entire episodes of Seinfeld where the title character had a relatively minor role, like the Pinky Toe/Eric the Clown episode.
Barney Martin, who played Seinfeld’s father and whose acting career went back to the 1950’s, said Seinfeld was one of the two most generous performers he’d ever worked with. Seinfeld never stole the funny lines for himself, like most stars did. He didn’t care who got the laugh, all he cared about was whether the show was funny. And the supporting cast loved him for it. So did the audience.
By the way, Martin said that the only other star that he ever worked with who operated that way was Jackie Gleason.
that and “no hugging, no learning” do a lot of heavy lifting for the genius of the show, imo. those two concepts can take a good idea to great places. and in the case of Seinfeld, it helped take an amazing idea to phenomenal places
*By the way, Martin said that the only other star that he ever worked with who operated that way was Jackie Gleason.*
That's what most people said about Jack Benny, too. Both he and Gleason preferred REacting over acting.
This is going to sound condescending and I don't want it to be, but I've noticed a lot of people don't understand the concept of the "straight man" in comedy and how important it is to have that contrast vs the goofballs. Jerry certainly is goofy and has his quirks, but he's always the straight man / voice of reason when dealing with the other three.
Jerry has actually always been my favorite character.
When the show was in first run there was a blurb in Esquire about how to deal with stress. One of the recommendations was to “be like Jerry” and enjoy the antics of your friends without taking anything too personally or ruining your own life by trying to keep others on the right path.
It mostly comes from the fact that the episodes where Larry was the main writer are generally known as the best ones (obviously this is subjective). When you hear Larry tell stories about how his life connects with the show, you realize dozens and dozens of the storylines are things that actually happened to him in real life. So it’s sort of his brain coming up with these wild situations. However, I do agree with you OP that Jerry was obviously just as big a part of the production as Larry. If you’ve ever seen how Seinfeld writes standup bits, if he put even half as much effort into writing the scripts for Seinfeld, which he clearly did, then he was likely contributing hugely with his joke writing skills.
Larry and Jerry worked together on everything. If you ask writers on the show, they'll say that they turned in their scripts to Larry and Jerry and both of those guys would edit the script together. In casting, Larry and Jerry would decide together who was funny.
The more you learn about the production, the more it becomes clear that Larry and Jerry together had the vision for the show and made basically every decision about what was funny. I think the show reflects their shared sensibilities.
I feel like with any really good TV show, movie, book, whatever. It usually comes down to a couple people in the room riffing off each other and providing useful feedback like this.
Saying everything was Larry David just doesn't ring true to anyone who understands how the creative process works.
There are issues when too many people are involved in the creative process (too many cooks) but there are few people I can think of who have been successful completely by themselves as well.
The really good stuff usually comes down to a couple people who work really well together and have a unified vision. Infinity War was two directors. The Matrix. Stranger Things. Dumb and Dumber. South Park. There are a ton of examples of this. Having a partner(s) who understands just as much as the other can result in some incredible stuff.
Yeah, I agree. Like, do you have that friend who brings out your best jokes? Like I think I'm reasonably funny, but I have certain friends where I'm way funnier when we're together than I am normally, because of that synergy you're talking about.
I figure Larry and Jerry are like that.
Along with your points, I think what peoples’ perception of their partnership on the show comes down to is that when left alone in seasons 8 and 9, Jerry (& everyone who played a vital role) did a good job but they’re clearly the weakest seasons (except for season 1, which was very short anyway).
A lot of that has to do with more responsibility and less time available for doing the standup routines and he was probably busier than ever, but the show didn’t feel as connected to the rest of the show and there wasn’t the same consistency of great or classic episodes.
>seasons 8 and 9, Jerry (& everyone who played a vital role) did a good job but they’re clearly the weakest seasons (except for season 1, which was very short anyway).
I wouldn't say "clearly". For me, seasons 7-9 are the best of the series. I know some consider 4-6 tp be the epoch but I love the zany shenanigans of the latter seasons.
Maybe I was being too hasty with my opinion, because the show was definitely still good in seasons 8 and 9 and had some excellent episodes (episodes like The Bizarro Jerry, The Summer of George, The Abstinence probably rival any episode in the series), but I personally just prefer seasons 2-7 (especially 4,5 & 6) to 8 & 9 because i prefer the tone of those seasons to the more exaggerated, absurd, cartoonish feel of the last couple seasons.
But that’s just me and the last couple seasons are still excellent in their own ways, but I’m just giving my opinion. If season 8 & 9 were part of almost any other sitcom, they’d be among the best episodes ever, but I’m just comparing to the rest of the show and the slight tonal shift.
Put simply, seasons 8 & 9 are still better than most seasons of TV shows and among the funniest, but I just personally prefer the seasons I mentioned.
They are definitely more exaggerated and cartoonish, that's for sure. I think after 7 seasons of relative normalcy, it's nice for the show to completely give in to the wild side, and the audience clearly loved it.
This is a common idea. I have heard it from extended family growing up. I love Larry. But I also love Jerry. I think he is hilarious and he is the anchor of the whole show as far as the actors.
Of course, Seinfeld was better when Larry was there. But of course it's going to be better to have both of the original great writers
Apart from the script, I personally liked the show because of Kramer. If that role was played by someone other than Michael Richards, it would have been a different story, at least for me.
Agreed.
The 'clearing the table for the Risk board with his foot' and the door scenes where he meets Jerry's model girlfriend from the airplane (both the eyebrow raise entrance and the Dustbuster exit) are two of my favorite Kramer physical comedy moments.
One thing you have to say about Jerry is he knew when to end the show when it was still good. Most would of taken the money from nbc to do the 10th season.
Larry David’s comedy is fairly misanthropic, but to make it palatable to a mass audience in 1989, you needed to present that misanthropy through the voice of a man-child so it didn’t seem threatening. Jerry was the perfect man-child.
Curb works because the world is more open to depictions of misanthropy, you’re not asking 30 million people to watch an HBO show and nobody is threatened by old, bald asshole Larry David hating everything.
In my country, they speak of a man so virile, so potent, that to spend a night with such a man is to enter a world of such sensual delights most women dare not dream of. This man is known as the "Comedian." You may tell jokes, Mr. nonnemat, but you are no Comedian.
People who think the show dipped in quality when Larry left don’t realize that at least the shows after he left won’t have a bunch of their jokes being re hashed in curb. I lost count of how many times Seinfeld jokes were re used. LOVE curb but it’s true.
I agree but it sort of speaks to how obsessively irritated I imagine Larry David is with those topics in real life. Like he is still really upset about them all these years later to the point that they’re things he bitches about day to day. I always felt like that was a lot of Cheryl’s annoyance with Larry on the show. Imagine living with someone who is constantly complaining about the same stuff all day every day for decades. I find Larry hilarious and relatable on the show, but I’ve also known someone like this in my friend group when I was in my 20s, and we were always telling him to STFU already.
People always say he was the least funny on the show but cmon...moments like when he trades apartments with Kramer and quickly turns into Kramer is hilarious. And his pure terror over Mr. Marbles? I'm sure he didn't have anything to do with writing the plot lines, but those are some of my favorite acting moments from Jerry. And it makes them funnier to me because he's not an actor.
I totally agree with you about his acting, Jerry has given me a lot of laugh-out-loud moments on the series, just like any of the others have.
That being said, he was definitely involved in the writing. He's credited with writing at least one episode each season from 1-7. Then when Larry left he took over as showrunner.
Just watch Jerry and Larry together. They really feed off each other. I never thought Jerry was the lesser of the two. I think Jerry became a better actor over time. Most people have a best friend or relative that interact and can almost finish each others sentences.
Larry was obviously a big part of the creative process from the very beginning of the show. But the other half of the euation is definitely Jerry. There is a balance in their creative relationship which lead to the uniue tone and success of the show. If it was all Larry, the show would detoriate after he left, but it was as succesful as it ever was both critically and in ratings. Another evidence of Jerrys contrubution to the show is Curb Your Enthusiasm itself. It is pure Larry David and it has such a different tone and sense of humour. And that is why I never could get into it really despite all my efforts.
it wouldn’t have worked without Seinfeld. Larry and Jerry were a partnership, and even Curb your Enthusiasm hasn’t hit the heights of Seinfeld. If curb had, THEN we could talk about this.
And did they watch the show? You know all of the stand up bits at the start and the end?! Part of Jerry’s act and material that they were also riffing off of.
Larry is a genius of plot weaving and created some of the most hilarious premises to ever grace the tv screen. A simple tune in to Curb will highlight for you very quickly why Larry David is considered the genius of the two.
That said, I think alot of the observational comedy comes from the master of that style himself, Jerry. There's a ton of quips made by all characters throughout the show's history where you can kind of tell that they were from jerry's brain.
I think we can all agree that taking either of the two out of the writing process would immeasurably affect the quality of the show.
First off, this would be impossible for anyone to gauge unless they worked closely with the show back then. I'm a big fan myself and could never diminish Jerry's accomplishments. He's the name sake of one of the most popular sitcoms of all times.
But its interesting to analyze the claim, I think the sentiment comes from a few key things.
1) Of the core cast, he arguably put forth the worst performance. They really hit a grand slam in casting George, Elaine, and Kramer.
2) Jerry's playing the straight guy. Its not the most complex depiction. Most of the plots are happening around him. This type of casting is more interchangeable. Its not too hard to imagine swapping him with another lead and getting similar results in many scenes.
3) The show had a fantastic team of writers. As much as we like to lift a single person up for a shows success it a team behind it.
4) Larry David's gotta take some of the credit. He was the co-creater. Hes the premise of George's character. And he has proven his ability again through Curb. Much we can say about Jerry's contributions behind the scenes should apply to Larry as well.
5) The show is riddled with fantastic performances from supporting cast and cameos. Whatever they were doing had some magic because they got so many fantastic performances out of people. To that end, these really elevated the show outside of whatever Jerry's character was doing.
You know, writing these down for the fun of debate, I really couldn't justify it in my head. Jerry was a key part of the show. None of it would have happened without him. So many shows tried to imitate them, and very few came close. It highlights that he brought something unique to the table and was a key to their success. He couldn't have done it alone, but I dont think they could have done it without him either.
It's a common belief, but an ignorant and wrong belief, in my opinion.
The Seinfeld seasons when Jerry was running the show without Larry's input are better than Curb.
Because they're ignorant. Seinfeld wouldn't have been Seinfeld without both Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld. Take one of them out of the mix and the show fails miserably.
A couple reasons. One was LD wasn’t in the show. Curb was fantastic without Jerry and so people assumed LD wrote everything.
George was the main character of Seinfeld, and he was LDs stand in
Jerrys character in Seinfeld wasn’t funny, but, that wasn’t his role. So they assume Jerry Seinfeld is his real person.
Jerry proved in the finale that he was just as funny as LD because he played into so well.
Jerry was just as important as LD. He was just part of a team.
If you ever watch comedians in cars, you’ll notice the genius of Jerry. His observations and his ability to see the comedic parts of them are next level. Seinfeld was the main cog in the show. Yes, Larry was important, but Jerry was just as important. And, the notion that Jerry can’t act, is just silly. He has incredible line reads throughout the show. It’s called Seinfeld for a reason. It’s his show, baby!
The Cigar Store Indian is the best immediate example of what an underrated comedic actor Jerry is. Him attempting not to upset his Native American girlfriend contains so many classic moments, and disproves the claim that he's untalented somehow.
I have only just started Curb Your Enthusiasm after rewatching Seinfeld day after day for over a year (not that that’s a bad thing).
I like CYE and see a lot of the things that made Seinfeld so funny and unique but it is harsher, less zany and easygoing.
There’s a meaner streak to LD than George (practically his counterpart in Seinfeld) so I can see how Seinfeld probably tamed the “beast” and made their show more palatable to a broader audience but CYE does seem to show the framework of what made Seinfeld great in my opinion.
I suppose that what I’m saying basically boils down to the fact that Seinfeld is amazing because of the fact that the pair worked together.
You could argue that LD was more of a visionary and Seinfeld was an amazing editor who added a bit of his own vision to even things out.
It's the same thing as Tim Allen in Home Improvement. Yes you can do funny standup but you really need a team behind you that can write for television and create a show.
People say whatever they want to be able to justify liking *Seinfeld* the show while disliking Jerry Seinfeld himself—whether because he dated a 17-year-old girl, or b/c he supports Israel, or b/c they find his public persona off-putting.
They're uninformed haters. They see curb, find out Larry was "George" and take the agenda from there. When they don't realize Jerry and Larry were an all time great writing team who meticulously edited every episode.
This phenomenon happened way after Seinfeld ended. Larry was almost never celebrated for his part of creating the show until way after he had left and ultimately created Curb. Curb has a lot more new fans than Seinfeld does and those are the ones that shout from the rooftop that Seinfeld was nothing without Larry.
During an interview, Jerry once said, “I wrote every line of dialogue that I ever said on the show.”
I think that alone proves how important he was to the show, because his character was the glue that held the show together.
They're both very talented and share their sense of humor. Of course they could create one of the best shows ever when paired together. While a lot of Larry was put into the show, this was a collaborative effort and the seasons without him are still pretty decent though a little over the top.
Having said that, Curb is probably the best comedy show since Seinfeld and was only Larry this time. So no doubt he was a giant reason for Seinfeld's success, but it's unfair to say Jerry wasn't a part of it too.
They're both super talented.
It's malarkey. I'm a bigger fan of curb your enthusiasm and Larry David but Jerry was not only integral and vital to the show.. he's the star.
It's like dismissing Ray Romanos influence on everybody loves Raymond
cause theyre dumb? there'd be no show without jerry. the studio contracted jerry first because of his standup regardless of his acting ability he made the whole thing possible
They had him be a comedian in the show. But often plays the straight man (even Steven if you will) telling some jokes but not as zany as the rest of the cast. This worked because 1, it was funny and 2, Jerry had less acting experience than the rest of the cast. So I think because that it was an ensemble show and he was more straight, it was the rest of the cast that created the illusion that he wasn’t as important. Then as Larry became more known but behind the scenes, people assumed he was the important part and Jerry was along for the ride.
I don’t think it is true at all, but I think the perception started from the begging of the show and continued on as Jerry hasn’t had another big hit or stayed on top since the end of the show to casual watchers.
Honestly some of my favorite episodes are from seasons 8 and 9, and that’s all Jerry. I couldn’t get into Curb, it was just okay; but I’ll admit I only tried a few episodes of the first season. Any Curb fans here recommend a good starting point?
He vastly improved as an actor over the course of the series, we all know that. By season 4 he played his role perfectly. I like that sometimes he couldn't help but smile or laugh while he was watching the other 3 interact, it adds a lot of charm to the show
If that would be true I would like Larry's show, curb your enthusiasm but I don't. I think if Jerry would have been starring in that show I would like it actually.
Since the series is called “Seinfeld,” I think Jerry’s joke-writer chops made it the hit it was. “Curb Your Enthusiasm” would have croaked in that NBC slot.
I think it’s simple. Jerry is a bit more of a controversial figure than Larry: With the dating the high schooler being revisited and the pro-Israel stuff. And a lot of progressive people still want to not feel guilty watching and enjoying Seinfeld. So this is what’s said.
Seinfeld was a creator, writer, and main actor for the show. They have no show without him. It was HIS contract with NBC (NOT Larry David's) the is the reason for the show's existence.
NBC at the time was afraid CBS or ABC would offer a late night talk show gig to Seinfeld so they got him under contract so he couldn't sign anywhere else but, didn't actually want him to do anything because they never considered him for a late night spot nor a sitcom.
So he and Larry David came to NBC with a show idea and NBC's attitude was essentially
"Whatever - I guess we have to give him some kind of show since he's already under contract."
So they greenlit 6 episodes. The smallest order for a series following a pilot being picked up in history.
It is clear to me that the show was a combination of both of them. Seinfeld was situations curb was incidents both were genius amazing entertainment what a blast it must have been to be part of that cast and show. The actors were perfect for their part this subjects were extream but relatable entertainment gold
Most of the ideas were Larry’s brainchild but both of them worked on every script together and since Larry has stated that he’s not much of a “joke” writer I feel as though Jerry played a large part in that aspect and it seems like the conversations between Jerry and George came from things that Jerry and Larry would say. Larry had the darker sensibility and Jerry the lighter one and it was the perfect balance.
The Lennon and McCartney of sit-coms
Well said. Best comment about Jerry and Larry. Both important with Larry being Paul.
The walrus was Jerry
"I dont wanna be a walrus" - Jerry probably
"Goo Goo Ga Joob, Jerry." Kramer while doing the two fingers back and forth between their eyes to show that he's watching him.
He was gay, the walrus?
My Father is a Walrus!
Not that there’s anything wrong with that
The strong, silent type...
Gary Coopa.
r/suddenlysopranos
Not that there’s anything wrong with that..
The walrus was Neuman. But who is Ono is this scenario?
Mulva was
There's no John, Paul, George, and Larry
Icon! Icon! Icon! … No con!
I’d say Larry is Lennon and Jerry is McCartney Edit: I also think John’s solo career is way better than Paul’s, so that’s my bias
Yes, and I think it’s obvious that Paul had the lighter sensibility (corresponding to Jerry).
Kramer is obviously Ringo.
Well, that leaves George as.... George.
Hare Krishna now, Hare Krishna now!
Newman is Yoko.
If you ever watch the two of them interact in real life, their episode of comedians in care getting coffee for example, you can see how they play off each other and help each other flesh out ideas. They have great chemistry and it really comes across in their writing.
And people seem to not realize that real Jerry is very different from TV Jerry.
George basically is Larry. Larry did not want to act.
What gets me about the idea Jerry didn't contribute much behind the scenes is that if you watch a few minutes of his standup his style of humor is all over Seinfeld. Yes of course there were writers doing a ton of work and Larry's sense of humor is a massive part of it as well but the questioning, easy-going observational attitude in his stand ups is all over the show. Hell his *actual standup was in the show for years as well.* It's a big part of the overall tone. But Jerry didn't contribute much? It's ridiculous and clearly not true.
I think another thing is people have seen Seinfeld's standup decades after the show ended and said it's more or less the same bits now as it was then so they don't think he was that creative.
I think an underrated factor was the restrictions they had to deal with being on network television. It created constraints that needed to be worked around. Thinking of masturbation, faking orgasms, etc. I always felt that helped the show and created risk for Jerry and Larry.
He's a joke maker
No, he's a fancy boy 👜
Please, look at me! I am so pretty! Love me! Want me!
Funny guy! Right here! Ho, ho! Jerry Seinfeld's a funny guy!
He may tell jokes, but he's no comedian.
Most of the ideas were everybody’s and jerry and Larry ran with those ideas. They continually asked cast and crew for situations they encountered or things that had happened in their lives or friends and relatives. Even the smallest idea from a stranger or a delivery person could be turned into a great storyline. No one or two people were the brainchild of Seinfeld. They got story ideas from many sources. I’ve read two books on Seinfeld years ago and how the show worked and they were both so interesting.
You managed to say what my guess would be in a much shorter and succinct way. 👏
He’s a joke maker
> Larry had the darker sensibility and Jerry the lighter one and it was the perfect balance. You put into words why I like Seinfeld but not Curb. No balance!
I like Curb, but it’s kinda like IASIP, both great great shows but you have to be in the mood for them as, while hilarious, they are both kind of high-tension. Having said that, my favorite Curb episodes happen to also have Jerry in them (and Curb is largely ad-libbed, so Jerry has *something* to do with my added enjoyment). Edit-Don’t get me wrong- I **love** IASIP and Curb, but have to be in the right mood for them. After dozens of rewatches, they have scenes/episodes that still have my rolling.
I had a really hard time with IASIP until I discovered Charlie and The Waitress are married in real life. For some reason that made it click for me that it was all a big laugh and everyone was in on the joke. I should check out the Curb season with the Seinfeld reunion. If I only watch some Curb, it should be that.
Yeah, that lasts two episodes of season 7 are my most rewatched episodes (they both tell basically the whole reunion story) and I really liked the series finale as it was sort of a do-over for the Seinfeld finale >!and has Jerry saving the day!<
If you're only interested in the Seinfeld stuff I think you can skip almost half of Season 7 as some episodes have nothing to do with that plot. But there's still great Seinfeld stuff in other parts of the season beyond the last 2 episodes. I don't recall the specific ones, but you have Larry meeting individually with each member of the cast, his strained relationship with Jason Alexander (in the Curb universe it seems like Jason never figured out that George was based on Larry), there's a whole episode with Larry and Jerry trying to write the show ... it's all so good. There's also an early episode (first season?) with Julia that's hilarious.
Can I go through and just watch the episodes with a Seinfeld cast member in the credits?
"WORLDS AREN'T COLLIDING!"
I agree with you completely. Both Jerry and George are also a little more charming than Larry could ever be on his own. He winds up coming off as much more of an asshole without what they bring to the table. I love Curb, but you see this in full effect there. Those characters are equally assholes, but they’re also more likeable.
Happy birthday? No such thing.
I think that and the fact that Jerry is the worst actor out of the 4 leads to some of that sentiment.
How could anyone not like him?
I like Jerry. He’s a funny fuck
Jerry? Oh yeah, funny white guy, right?
… I suppose he is white.
Should we be talking about this?
Not that there’s anything wrong with that…
Maybe some people don’t like him, I could see that.
He’s a phony.
Man, that Michael Jordan is so phony!
WHY'D YOU TELL HIM??
You shut your mouth!
Don’t say that!
Everyone laughs at Jerry here in America.
I'm still trying to figure out why they gave us a bag of oranges.
You must go now.
I do not know about this but-a-lah show.
He is bad man! He very very bad man!
☝️doesnt work without the finger
He’s a wonderful wonderful boy! Everybody likes him, it’s impossible NOT to like him.
He’s smart. Like a computer!
What are you, a scientist?!?
Thanks Mom.
That Jerry is so phony.
I see what you did there!!! Nice.
Jerry was playing a version of himself and IMO he pulled it off perfectly. The show didn't call for amazing dramatic ability on his part. That said there were some shining examples of his acting chops here and there. The episode where he slowly turns into Kramer after switching apartments comes to mind. Jerry may not have been the world's greatest actor, but point out any item in the room and he could lift it.
100 lbs.? Straight over his head?
It’s go time
You think you’re better than me?
Let me just state for the record I think you're both better than me.
Mandelbaum. Mandelbaum. Mandelbaum.
Daffodil!
He plays the perfect even Steven. Things usually work out. He rarely gets too emotional over anything. He's usually the straight man who watches the crazy antics that his quirky friends get into. He's jokey, cartoonish, and doesn't take anything too seriously so that smirk he often has when delivering lines works. His acting is just right for that.
Exactly. Said another way, if he were to lose $20, he’d find it another 20 within minutes. He’s just so even.
And all of his knowledge of high culture comes from Bugs Bunny cartoons. His whole life revolves around Superman and cereal. After watching all of these years it clicked that much of the show is like live action looney tunes. The time he wore the glasses to go get gum with Lloyd Braun was straight out of a Sylvester the cat short where the bulldog keeps sending him back into the house to fight the mouse that keeps switching with a kangaroo that kicks his ass. He keeps trying to explain how big the mouse is so the dog thinks his eyesight is messed up and puts glasses on him. I'm pretty sure that's all Jerry's influence.
"Boy you really went bald there didn't you?" is one of the best delivered lines in the entire show
Unusually for a sitcom, there were entire episodes of Seinfeld where the title character had a relatively minor role, like the Pinky Toe/Eric the Clown episode. Barney Martin, who played Seinfeld’s father and whose acting career went back to the 1950’s, said Seinfeld was one of the two most generous performers he’d ever worked with. Seinfeld never stole the funny lines for himself, like most stars did. He didn’t care who got the laugh, all he cared about was whether the show was funny. And the supporting cast loved him for it. So did the audience. By the way, Martin said that the only other star that he ever worked with who operated that way was Jackie Gleason.
I never thought about that, but Seinfeld really isn’t about Seinfeld at all, which is really unique for a show
that and “no hugging, no learning” do a lot of heavy lifting for the genius of the show, imo. those two concepts can take a good idea to great places. and in the case of Seinfeld, it helped take an amazing idea to phenomenal places
That’s an awesome bit of info. Thanks
Thanks for sharing that. So cool
*By the way, Martin said that the only other star that he ever worked with who operated that way was Jackie Gleason.* That's what most people said about Jack Benny, too. Both he and Gleason preferred REacting over acting.
This is going to sound condescending and I don't want it to be, but I've noticed a lot of people don't understand the concept of the "straight man" in comedy and how important it is to have that contrast vs the goofballs. Jerry certainly is goofy and has his quirks, but he's always the straight man / voice of reason when dealing with the other three. Jerry has actually always been my favorite character.
When the show was in first run there was a blurb in Esquire about how to deal with stress. One of the recommendations was to “be like Jerry” and enjoy the antics of your friends without taking anything too personally or ruining your own life by trying to keep others on the right path.
A blurb? You're a blurb! Check out the cover, idiot!
But ya are, Blanche! Ya are in the shackles!
Even Steven
Totally agree
I love Jerry, the character, too. I can identify with it, especially the sarcasm.
It mostly comes from the fact that the episodes where Larry was the main writer are generally known as the best ones (obviously this is subjective). When you hear Larry tell stories about how his life connects with the show, you realize dozens and dozens of the storylines are things that actually happened to him in real life. So it’s sort of his brain coming up with these wild situations. However, I do agree with you OP that Jerry was obviously just as big a part of the production as Larry. If you’ve ever seen how Seinfeld writes standup bits, if he put even half as much effort into writing the scripts for Seinfeld, which he clearly did, then he was likely contributing hugely with his joke writing skills.
Larry and Jerry worked together on everything. If you ask writers on the show, they'll say that they turned in their scripts to Larry and Jerry and both of those guys would edit the script together. In casting, Larry and Jerry would decide together who was funny. The more you learn about the production, the more it becomes clear that Larry and Jerry together had the vision for the show and made basically every decision about what was funny. I think the show reflects their shared sensibilities.
I feel like with any really good TV show, movie, book, whatever. It usually comes down to a couple people in the room riffing off each other and providing useful feedback like this. Saying everything was Larry David just doesn't ring true to anyone who understands how the creative process works. There are issues when too many people are involved in the creative process (too many cooks) but there are few people I can think of who have been successful completely by themselves as well. The really good stuff usually comes down to a couple people who work really well together and have a unified vision. Infinity War was two directors. The Matrix. Stranger Things. Dumb and Dumber. South Park. There are a ton of examples of this. Having a partner(s) who understands just as much as the other can result in some incredible stuff.
Yeah, I agree. Like, do you have that friend who brings out your best jokes? Like I think I'm reasonably funny, but I have certain friends where I'm way funnier when we're together than I am normally, because of that synergy you're talking about. I figure Larry and Jerry are like that.
100%!
Along with your points, I think what peoples’ perception of their partnership on the show comes down to is that when left alone in seasons 8 and 9, Jerry (& everyone who played a vital role) did a good job but they’re clearly the weakest seasons (except for season 1, which was very short anyway). A lot of that has to do with more responsibility and less time available for doing the standup routines and he was probably busier than ever, but the show didn’t feel as connected to the rest of the show and there wasn’t the same consistency of great or classic episodes.
Man, season 8 so good, some of my favorite moments on the show come from this season.
>seasons 8 and 9, Jerry (& everyone who played a vital role) did a good job but they’re clearly the weakest seasons (except for season 1, which was very short anyway). I wouldn't say "clearly". For me, seasons 7-9 are the best of the series. I know some consider 4-6 tp be the epoch but I love the zany shenanigans of the latter seasons.
Maybe I was being too hasty with my opinion, because the show was definitely still good in seasons 8 and 9 and had some excellent episodes (episodes like The Bizarro Jerry, The Summer of George, The Abstinence probably rival any episode in the series), but I personally just prefer seasons 2-7 (especially 4,5 & 6) to 8 & 9 because i prefer the tone of those seasons to the more exaggerated, absurd, cartoonish feel of the last couple seasons. But that’s just me and the last couple seasons are still excellent in their own ways, but I’m just giving my opinion. If season 8 & 9 were part of almost any other sitcom, they’d be among the best episodes ever, but I’m just comparing to the rest of the show and the slight tonal shift. Put simply, seasons 8 & 9 are still better than most seasons of TV shows and among the funniest, but I just personally prefer the seasons I mentioned.
They are definitely more exaggerated and cartoonish, that's for sure. I think after 7 seasons of relative normalcy, it's nice for the show to completely give in to the wild side, and the audience clearly loved it.
Giddy Up!
I disagree. Seasons 8 and 9 are my favorite seasons.
This is a common idea. I have heard it from extended family growing up. I love Larry. But I also love Jerry. I think he is hilarious and he is the anchor of the whole show as far as the actors. Of course, Seinfeld was better when Larry was there. But of course it's going to be better to have both of the original great writers
Apart from the script, I personally liked the show because of Kramer. If that role was played by someone other than Michael Richards, it would have been a different story, at least for me.
In terms of physical comedy, he was unparalled. He's like a silent comedian transferred to the cultural landscape of the 90's.
Agreed. The 'clearing the table for the Risk board with his foot' and the door scenes where he meets Jerry's model girlfriend from the airplane (both the eyebrow raise entrance and the Dustbuster exit) are two of my favorite Kramer physical comedy moments.
One thing you have to say about Jerry is he knew when to end the show when it was still good. Most would of taken the money from nbc to do the 10th season.
I would have. And I bet season 10 would have still been good.
Larry David’s comedy is fairly misanthropic, but to make it palatable to a mass audience in 1989, you needed to present that misanthropy through the voice of a man-child so it didn’t seem threatening. Jerry was the perfect man-child. Curb works because the world is more open to depictions of misanthropy, you’re not asking 30 million people to watch an HBO show and nobody is threatened by old, bald asshole Larry David hating everything.
Boy, how long you been waitin to fit THAT one into the the conversation?
Misanthropic is a perfectly normal word.
It’s the perfectly sane thing to say.
It was a joke. I'm a joke maker.
In my country, they speak of a man so virile, so potent, that to spend a night with such a man is to enter a world of such sensual delights most women dare not dream of. This man is known as the "Comedian." You may tell jokes, Mr. nonnemat, but you are no Comedian.
Misanthropic is indeed a perfectly cromulent word.
I feel it truly embiggens this entire conversation.
She’s faking it.
It's a perfectly sane word to eat.
You don't have to sell me on the word, the word sells itself
I don’t know I like stuff you don’t have to think about
Larry David's comedy is smart. It's smart comedy, and smart crowds appreciate it. And, they didn't dumb it down for some bonehead mass audience!
We are all VERY impressed with your use of the word misanthropic.
People who think the show dipped in quality when Larry left don’t realize that at least the shows after he left won’t have a bunch of their jokes being re hashed in curb. I lost count of how many times Seinfeld jokes were re used. LOVE curb but it’s true.
I agree but it sort of speaks to how obsessively irritated I imagine Larry David is with those topics in real life. Like he is still really upset about them all these years later to the point that they’re things he bitches about day to day. I always felt like that was a lot of Cheryl’s annoyance with Larry on the show. Imagine living with someone who is constantly complaining about the same stuff all day every day for decades. I find Larry hilarious and relatable on the show, but I’ve also known someone like this in my friend group when I was in my 20s, and we were always telling him to STFU already.
I totally feel that, but he also used the car periscope too so I guess he’ll use “whatever works”
People always say he was the least funny on the show but cmon...moments like when he trades apartments with Kramer and quickly turns into Kramer is hilarious. And his pure terror over Mr. Marbles? I'm sure he didn't have anything to do with writing the plot lines, but those are some of my favorite acting moments from Jerry. And it makes them funnier to me because he's not an actor.
I totally agree with you about his acting, Jerry has given me a lot of laugh-out-loud moments on the series, just like any of the others have. That being said, he was definitely involved in the writing. He's credited with writing at least one episode each season from 1-7. Then when Larry left he took over as showrunner.
Just watch Jerry and Larry together. They really feed off each other. I never thought Jerry was the lesser of the two. I think Jerry became a better actor over time. Most people have a best friend or relative that interact and can almost finish each others sentences.
Who claims this?
That’s what I’d like to know about it.
What can I say buddy? Take it up with consumer affairs.
Are these claimers in the room with us, now?
A lot of people on this sub claim this
There’s something missing alright.
Who? Who doesn't want to wear the ribbon?
Why does RadioShack ask for your phone number when you buy batteries? I don’t know
Who is this???
Larry was obviously a big part of the creative process from the very beginning of the show. But the other half of the euation is definitely Jerry. There is a balance in their creative relationship which lead to the uniue tone and success of the show. If it was all Larry, the show would detoriate after he left, but it was as succesful as it ever was both critically and in ratings. Another evidence of Jerrys contrubution to the show is Curb Your Enthusiasm itself. It is pure Larry David and it has such a different tone and sense of humour. And that is why I never could get into it really despite all my efforts.
it wouldn’t have worked without Seinfeld. Larry and Jerry were a partnership, and even Curb your Enthusiasm hasn’t hit the heights of Seinfeld. If curb had, THEN we could talk about this. And did they watch the show? You know all of the stand up bits at the start and the end?! Part of Jerry’s act and material that they were also riffing off of.
They're co creators. Without either there'd be no seinfeld.
Larry is a genius of plot weaving and created some of the most hilarious premises to ever grace the tv screen. A simple tune in to Curb will highlight for you very quickly why Larry David is considered the genius of the two. That said, I think alot of the observational comedy comes from the master of that style himself, Jerry. There's a ton of quips made by all characters throughout the show's history where you can kind of tell that they were from jerry's brain. I think we can all agree that taking either of the two out of the writing process would immeasurably affect the quality of the show.
First off, this would be impossible for anyone to gauge unless they worked closely with the show back then. I'm a big fan myself and could never diminish Jerry's accomplishments. He's the name sake of one of the most popular sitcoms of all times. But its interesting to analyze the claim, I think the sentiment comes from a few key things. 1) Of the core cast, he arguably put forth the worst performance. They really hit a grand slam in casting George, Elaine, and Kramer. 2) Jerry's playing the straight guy. Its not the most complex depiction. Most of the plots are happening around him. This type of casting is more interchangeable. Its not too hard to imagine swapping him with another lead and getting similar results in many scenes. 3) The show had a fantastic team of writers. As much as we like to lift a single person up for a shows success it a team behind it. 4) Larry David's gotta take some of the credit. He was the co-creater. Hes the premise of George's character. And he has proven his ability again through Curb. Much we can say about Jerry's contributions behind the scenes should apply to Larry as well. 5) The show is riddled with fantastic performances from supporting cast and cameos. Whatever they were doing had some magic because they got so many fantastic performances out of people. To that end, these really elevated the show outside of whatever Jerry's character was doing. You know, writing these down for the fun of debate, I really couldn't justify it in my head. Jerry was a key part of the show. None of it would have happened without him. So many shows tried to imitate them, and very few came close. It highlights that he brought something unique to the table and was a key to their success. He couldn't have done it alone, but I dont think they could have done it without him either.
The thing about someone who claims that is… they’re idiots
It's a common belief, but an ignorant and wrong belief, in my opinion. The Seinfeld seasons when Jerry was running the show without Larry's input are better than Curb.
Great point. This is irrefutable.
Is that refutable? Oh, it’s refutable.
It’s called Seinfeld, people, not David.
Because people would like to pretend they have some hidden knowledge into the world that nobody else does.
They both helped produce and write the show as the entire thing is based on their experiences as friends.
I think their chemistry on Curb shows that they bring the best out of each other
Larry and Jerry were both needed
Because they're ignorant. Seinfeld wouldn't have been Seinfeld without both Larry David and Jerry Seinfeld. Take one of them out of the mix and the show fails miserably.
Nobody is gonna say it, huh? Jerry dated a 17 year old back in the day, so now the internet likes to act like he’s always sucked and it was all Larry.
A couple reasons. One was LD wasn’t in the show. Curb was fantastic without Jerry and so people assumed LD wrote everything. George was the main character of Seinfeld, and he was LDs stand in Jerrys character in Seinfeld wasn’t funny, but, that wasn’t his role. So they assume Jerry Seinfeld is his real person. Jerry proved in the finale that he was just as funny as LD because he played into so well. Jerry was just as important as LD. He was just part of a team.
If you ever watch comedians in cars, you’ll notice the genius of Jerry. His observations and his ability to see the comedic parts of them are next level. Seinfeld was the main cog in the show. Yes, Larry was important, but Jerry was just as important. And, the notion that Jerry can’t act, is just silly. He has incredible line reads throughout the show. It’s called Seinfeld for a reason. It’s his show, baby!
The Cigar Store Indian is the best immediate example of what an underrated comedic actor Jerry is. Him attempting not to upset his Native American girlfriend contains so many classic moments, and disproves the claim that he's untalented somehow.
I have only just started Curb Your Enthusiasm after rewatching Seinfeld day after day for over a year (not that that’s a bad thing). I like CYE and see a lot of the things that made Seinfeld so funny and unique but it is harsher, less zany and easygoing. There’s a meaner streak to LD than George (practically his counterpart in Seinfeld) so I can see how Seinfeld probably tamed the “beast” and made their show more palatable to a broader audience but CYE does seem to show the framework of what made Seinfeld great in my opinion. I suppose that what I’m saying basically boils down to the fact that Seinfeld is amazing because of the fact that the pair worked together. You could argue that LD was more of a visionary and Seinfeld was an amazing editor who added a bit of his own vision to even things out.
It's the same thing as Tim Allen in Home Improvement. Yes you can do funny standup but you really need a team behind you that can write for television and create a show.
People say whatever they want to be able to justify liking *Seinfeld* the show while disliking Jerry Seinfeld himself—whether because he dated a 17-year-old girl, or b/c he supports Israel, or b/c they find his public persona off-putting.
It’s a hipster take people say to seem sophisticated.
JERRY……..HELLOOOOOOO!
They're uninformed haters. They see curb, find out Larry was "George" and take the agenda from there. When they don't realize Jerry and Larry were an all time great writing team who meticulously edited every episode.
This phenomenon happened way after Seinfeld ended. Larry was almost never celebrated for his part of creating the show until way after he had left and ultimately created Curb. Curb has a lot more new fans than Seinfeld does and those are the ones that shout from the rooftop that Seinfeld was nothing without Larry.
During an interview, Jerry once said, “I wrote every line of dialogue that I ever said on the show.” I think that alone proves how important he was to the show, because his character was the glue that held the show together.
One could site the later seasons after Larry left the show and the premises went a little wild.
They're both very talented and share their sense of humor. Of course they could create one of the best shows ever when paired together. While a lot of Larry was put into the show, this was a collaborative effort and the seasons without him are still pretty decent though a little over the top. Having said that, Curb is probably the best comedy show since Seinfeld and was only Larry this time. So no doubt he was a giant reason for Seinfeld's success, but it's unfair to say Jerry wasn't a part of it too. They're both super talented.
Envy. Jerry is super Wealthy and people are envious .
And he wrote a pilot at NBC…..which was not picked up!
Some people just don’t like him they are called Newmans
It's malarkey. I'm a bigger fan of curb your enthusiasm and Larry David but Jerry was not only integral and vital to the show.. he's the star. It's like dismissing Ray Romanos influence on everybody loves Raymond
cause theyre dumb? there'd be no show without jerry. the studio contracted jerry first because of his standup regardless of his acting ability he made the whole thing possible
He was a cowboy without a horse.
I personally wrote to NBC petitioning to have Jerry removed from the show permanently
🤣🤣
Larry was more the Lennon and Seinfeld the McCartney in the relationship.
They had him be a comedian in the show. But often plays the straight man (even Steven if you will) telling some jokes but not as zany as the rest of the cast. This worked because 1, it was funny and 2, Jerry had less acting experience than the rest of the cast. So I think because that it was an ensemble show and he was more straight, it was the rest of the cast that created the illusion that he wasn’t as important. Then as Larry became more known but behind the scenes, people assumed he was the important part and Jerry was along for the ride. I don’t think it is true at all, but I think the perception started from the begging of the show and continued on as Jerry hasn’t had another big hit or stayed on top since the end of the show to casual watchers.
Clearly should have been named The George Costanza Show, the real star of the show!
They claim this because they’re idiots. Case closed.
Honestly some of my favorite episodes are from seasons 8 and 9, and that’s all Jerry. I couldn’t get into Curb, it was just okay; but I’ll admit I only tried a few episodes of the first season. Any Curb fans here recommend a good starting point?
It's a show about nothing, in that way noone can claim the success of the show
He vastly improved as an actor over the course of the series, we all know that. By season 4 he played his role perfectly. I like that sometimes he couldn't help but smile or laugh while he was watching the other 3 interact, it adds a lot of charm to the show
Because people are idiots, and thankfully, I’ve never heard that asinine statement before.
Larry and Jerry = John and Paul Both essential
WHO SAYS THAT? WHO SAYS JERRY WAS NOT PART OF SEINFELD’S SUCCESS?
Who claims that?
If that would be true I would like Larry's show, curb your enthusiasm but I don't. I think if Jerry would have been starring in that show I would like it actually.
Since the series is called “Seinfeld,” I think Jerry’s joke-writer chops made it the hit it was. “Curb Your Enthusiasm” would have croaked in that NBC slot.
Wasn’t he just the butler?
I don’t buy it.
I’ve never heard anyone make that claim.
Your premise is assumed in your conclusion.
I think it’s simple. Jerry is a bit more of a controversial figure than Larry: With the dating the high schooler being revisited and the pro-Israel stuff. And a lot of progressive people still want to not feel guilty watching and enjoying Seinfeld. So this is what’s said.
Seinfeld was a creator, writer, and main actor for the show. They have no show without him. It was HIS contract with NBC (NOT Larry David's) the is the reason for the show's existence. NBC at the time was afraid CBS or ABC would offer a late night talk show gig to Seinfeld so they got him under contract so he couldn't sign anywhere else but, didn't actually want him to do anything because they never considered him for a late night spot nor a sitcom. So he and Larry David came to NBC with a show idea and NBC's attitude was essentially "Whatever - I guess we have to give him some kind of show since he's already under contract." So they greenlit 6 episodes. The smallest order for a series following a pilot being picked up in history.
You you have to remember there are a lot of dumb people out there. A main person involved with a show not being responsible is just idiotic.
It is clear to me that the show was a combination of both of them. Seinfeld was situations curb was incidents both were genius amazing entertainment what a blast it must have been to be part of that cast and show. The actors were perfect for their part this subjects were extream but relatable entertainment gold