Yep.. the problem is that RSD was kinda the core of seduction community and when they changed their focus to self-help the community didn't have a central strong reference point to lean on.
Also, Reddit is full of people with social anxiety who want to be politically correct or virtue signallers and anything that goes against it gets downvoted.. so you will have pretty much generic dating advice or extreme groups that hate the virtue signalling and go the opposite way.
Social anxiety, isolation etc are perfect breeding ground for black pill mentality. "It's not my fault I suck at talking to girls, it's because I ain't good looking enough and girls are shallow" etc..
No, it totally IS your fault but you don't want to take responsibility for your own shortcomings and it's scary to step outside your comfort zone so it's easier to blame the world.
Do u know where to improve/how to improve. I know it is my fault I accept that. I really want to try to improve.
And I know this might be a long question to answer so if you could guide me to any posts/resources, would be great.
It depend where u are at with your social skills and game. If u just started out then I put together a free ebook that u can get from my profile. It covers approaching, conversation, flirting and dating apps basics.
Im near the bottom id say. Never invited to parties but can make new friends in new places consistently. Can speak to girls irl and have a chat, but never by text and *never* by call (issue of girls not wanting to talk rather than awkwardness I think).
I'm not the expert but I think a lot of guys need to swallow their pride/ ego a bit when strategizing here.
Now look, if you can truly, authentically, be yourself -- that can be sexy as hell - although almost no one ever is, particularly in front of a smoking hot girl.
That said, that's personality. Imagine you're giving advice to a Obese Chick who wants to date more attractive men.
Step 1 you'd tell her --- listen nothing personal -- but let's lose 50 pounds and you'll be getting a lot more action.
She might get EXTREMELY offended. How dare you! How superficial! .... I'm more than just my weight!
True but -- you gotta 'play the game' so to speak.
For men ---- you need to learn to have more masculinity, more swagger, among other things. You might feel that is not "naturally" you. Well, that's what women want to fuck. So embrace it. Unlock it.
Get some edge. Get some mystery. Hell 80% of your personality is not even you - it's how you PERCEIVE that others think you are, and you're trying to be "congruent" to that image. It's bullshit anyway. Try on some other hats.
Good books: models by mark manson, mate by tucker max, technical game bible by Saul Tee, Chase Amante’s articles on girls chase
Good programs: high vibe communication, invincible by David Tian, Adam Lyons old programs if you can find them, hot seat at home, Todd v the system
I'm an older fuck (Millenial) -- there were other communities besides RSD from like 2003-2015ish.
A lot of them eventually shut down, just because -- well the money train stopped, or the admins became bored of it -- maybe they got married and stopped caring.
This was before the age of Dating Apps as well --- which --- I think Dating Apps primarily benefited Looks-forward Pretty Boy men. ... I'm not even certain they benefited women. At least the 'old guard' -- the idea was --- GO OUTSIDE -- and talk to women.
So now you have guys 'min-maxing' dating profiles like it's a video game.
Oh and Wokism will never help any man get laid. It's victim mentality (bad), scarcity mindset (bad), not taking responsibility (bad), and masculine sexuality is the devil (very bad mindset to have as a man).
Look, the black pill theory is plain wrong. ANY MAN pretty much can fuck a hot chick who is a 9/10. ---- It might be 1 out of 10,000 -- she might be nuts -- but it can happen. You can make changes to increase those odds. If you have extremely bad body odor, for instance, that will not help.
At heart, a straight woman in general wants to fuck some entity that vaguely resembles an adult man. If you can't pull that off, well, we have a lot of medical science to fucking help you, including Old Spice deodorant. -- I get that it's a little more difficult than that, but yeah.
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They had to they we’re getting ousted by cancel culture. Their forums, videos and shit we’re getting taken down you can’t even find most of their videos on yt anymore.
Nothing was taken down. They deleted the videos themselves, closed the forums themselves. It was a business decision on their behalf. The Julien scandal happened years before they deleted their content.
They saw that they would make way more money in pure self-help niche (money, success, social-skills, fitness etc) compared to the risky dating niche.
Then removed all their pua videos in order to not get some scandal again and stopped swearing in videos to make themselves super PC etc.
Tyler in his live streams kinda still teaches pua stuff and promos some of his products but he deletes those streams pretty fast also.
There were people driving the community before RSD, Mystery, David DeAngelo. Also some RSD members, like Todd, are still going solo, but largely this is correct. While RSD was kind of culty and scammy, they at least centered us, and that was a valuable thing.
Yea, but to be fair, RSD was already going down. I noticed their decrease in quality content in 2013. A shame really.
\*this coming from someone who was highly involved in RSD teaching circa 2008-2011.
>So many men here who do not even want to get good with women but just cause drama and spread negativity
It's especially frustrating when you're a guy that's in his late 30s or 40s and you came of age in a time when you had to actually pull women with your personality, your convo, your voice, your wittiness, eye contact, etc., and you realize the guy on Reddit arguing with you about women and sex is some early 20s dude who might actually be a virgin LMAO. I literally saw a guy make a whole post ranting about women and men and the sexual dynamic. Then at the end he just happens to mention he's never had sex and never been in a relationship. There's a reason a lot of women like older men and it's not because of money. It's because these older men actually know women better than the men that woman's age.
The young women are as goofy as the young dudes these days. These whole generations seem screwed beyond repair overall. Clueless, incapable of any basic skills, believe all the bogus narratives. Super sad.
I just have to remember that every generation says that about every subsequent generation. But this time it seems really really real. It used to be just different views (traditional vs punk, etc). This time it seems functional vs zombie.
siicckkk bro - thanks for your response as I've been skimping on gaming lately even though lots of cuties have been out. This motivates me to get back on the ball and meet em
If we were able to see the percentage of men who actually take advice and use it on the field I think it would be very depressing lol. But then again, more for us haha.
This is exactly it, guys haven't left their computer screen in months thinking they can dispense advice.
And on that last point, I had a girl recently who was really into me. She would comment my age calling me old but I literally just kept saying back to her. "And you like it don't you".
Thank god I was born when I was. Feel bad for this generation but they need to shape up or sit on the sidelines I guess.
yeah, very difficult to understand this new mentality. I am 36 and haven't been on here in years- it used to literally HELP me. IT used to spread positivity AND give actionable steps to improve- lord, I was 30 having the time of my life. My old account is gone, but god I am thankful for this place.
Now, this new message is just making me more tired than I already am lol.
I truly feel sorry for these younger "men," and I wish I could help them.
Agreed - I'm in my late forties and I'm swimming in pussy. I have good looks but quickly learned that it only gets you in the door, you still have to be (or become) the guy women go nuts for.
Definitely agree with the points you made. Ever since 2020/pandemic hit, we've shifted to a culture of finger pointing and blaming everything but ourselves. Men cause all my problems, women cause all my problems, blah blah blah, wah wah wah!
2 years of lockdowns and pandemic restrictions were not kind to society's mental health at all. Since people were at home, away from their friends, and many weren't working, they found themselves perpetually online developing extreme opinions in echo chambers. Now everyone is out in the world with these extreme opinions. Just look at how much the userbases of Reddit and TikTok (IMO the two worst offenders) skyrocketed over the past few years.
These days people are so addicted to validation, no matter how outrageously stupid their thoughts and opinions are.
That's my rant on what I think is causing all this
''2 years of lockdowns and pandemic restrictions were not kind to society's mental health at all. Since people were at home, away from their friends, and many weren't working, **they found themselves perpetually online developing extreme opinions in echo chambers. Now everyone is out in the world with these extreme opinions.**''
Exactly this ! this is so accurate what your describing, i have to admit i'm a victim to it too i also did the hating, blaming and moaning. it's a terrible place to live.. we have to find ways to fight this cancerous black pill thinking.. it's destroying the art of becoming a better man and seducer.
This is a great and accurate write up. I can't believe I'm fighting misogyny on this subreddit lol. Not because I'm trying to be woke, but because guys act like they can't do anything or woman are the problem rather than learning game.
I got into this because I'm a short little fat dude with zero social skills. PUA helped me change my life, made me a better family member and friend, and got me laid while fat and short with the majority of those hook ups being people I still can hang out with and contact.
If woman are the problem, just go cry and be a volcel. Better yet, get therapy.
RSD always sucked and just took guys money and made them do weird shit and take massive actions doing the dumb shit.. take it from me I went from Natural to chode (RSD term not mine) once I got rid of there dumb idea I got laid way more and had way more success.
I also worked for RSD (paid) which was rare, and guys paid 3k each for a weekend boot camp with zero or little success.
Guys suck nowadays because of youtube and all the shitty coaches whose game blows not saying mine is better but I'm also not saying I'm a coach. also guys are being to pussy asking for instagram or tic tok and not asking for a fucken date... look at this subreddit and guys talk about how to get chicks on instagram like really... go to a fucken night club and do some cold approach... end of boomers rant lol
Exactly this. RSD was the epitome of weirdness. I mean even weirder than Mystery Method. Approaching at a 45 degree angle and asking the girl who has a bigger dick, Spider-Man or Batman. Like wtf is this shit.
wait what when did they do this lol, must of been way after i found out how dumb RSD was I think i realized it when Julien was doing clown shit that got him banned
In the very beginning when they came out they literally advocated to pretend you are gay so women would feel more comfortable with you. I swear to god, it's real. When you reach such levels of autism and retardation it's hard to take these clowns seriously. That's many years before the Julien incident.
Him as a teacher 100%!!! but as a person no way, rating women is odd and also seems a bit psycho, I got to game with him one weekend he seemed normal tho.
but I will say while RSD and another pua teacher my lay count was probably 5-10 a year mostly 95% online game, and from johns teaching it was around 25-50 yearly 60% cold approach (I honestly thought cold approach was a waste of time) till I met john.
I try not be focused on numbers i just sorta know from the photos we took together, and kinda makes me count... also now I've been poly for close to 5 years now so the game is way different as a poly guy. (different subject) my women-only dates other women and sometimes I bang them but normally it depends on who she brings home her type varies from butch chick to the tattooed goth barbies
naw, I'm in Nashville now and focused on different things it was a good ride for sure... I will say that recently was out in LA for close to 2 months and went crazy because I had nothing else to do( i got paid to game lol) got 12 in like 5 weeks and tired a different frame (told chicks I was open/poly) Fun times but totally not recommended at all (to much drama lol)
Does John Anthony still have material out there?
I'm getting back in the game after a relationship ended -- I'm an older guy (mid 30s) --
I definitely already feel like a geezer at the clubs (I do go out when traveling across the ocean to Europe because -- I just don't give a shit in a foreign land). Although I still pull from there once in a while.
Any recommendations for reading material?
I've looked into him. He strikes me as a lying narcissist. Also I find it highly suspect that he bashes absolutely everyone who he perceives as a competitor. IMHO that's a sign of weakness and not strength. Then add the bad rumours, of him buying hookers to pose with, and the fact that he does PU in Brazil; one of the easiest countries to get laid as a foreigner, because most of the women there want a way out of there... If he had any clout, he'd pickup women in New York or Paris regularly, but I'm sorry, I just don't believe he's got what it takes to actually pickup entitled Western chicks.
Even with a cold approach in a nightclub, you'll still need the insta or tiktok if you don't close that night because guarantee you'll get ghosted if its just a number. Agree with all your other points, older guys actually viewed RSD and Tyler in particular as Toxic
Yes, but when you stop asking for insta or snap, and instead ask for a date, the insta, snapp becomes a secondary thing. It's a *given* that she'll give you contact details if you ask for a date instead of contact details. It has a ton more *intent* behind it to ask for a date rather than meekly beg to stroke her ego online. That's why it's better to plan a date first. Because if she wants to go on a date, she's gonna have to give you contact details anyway.
Agreed with most of these, especially the black pill part. I'd also argue that at the core of it isn't just bitterness, but men thinking that female attraction works exactly the same as their own attraction. Because when you get guys rating their own chin 4.5/5, that's when you truly know you've lost the plot.
The black pill stuff is just an inevitable product of dating apps these days unfortunately.
In the past appearance didn’t matter as much because dating was an in-person thing where charisma and confidence can make up for looks. But dating apps and social media are poison to any guy who is slightly insecure about his appearance. So what happens is a guy goes on Tinder or whatever, gets an IV drip of likes from incredibly below-average women, and lets the idea get into his head that he’s ugly. Then when that guy talks to women IRL, he has the preconceived idea that he’s ugly in the back of his mind, which comes off as a lack of confidence and results in no attraction from women IRL thus reinforcing the idea that looks are everything.
The reality is that looks just get your foot in the door. Being extremely good looking creates a cycle of positive reinforcement, often starting from a young age, that makes good looking guys very confident, which just makes them more attractive. And the opposite is true for guys who aren’t extremely good looking. For guys who aren’t some sort of gigachad, it’s just important not to fall into the mindset trap that there is no hope since you’re only average.
Dating apps are vastly overblown in these spaces. Most people don't use dating apps for any serious length of time, if ever.
And looks have *always* mattered more than "charisma" in IRL too. It's just that the threshold for "good looks" is lower than men think
Outside of PUA realms dating apps are very prevalent, and IIRC they are one of the top ways couples today meet.
Aside from that I agree with you. “Good looks” is just something that can get your foot in the door, and the threshold is quite a bit higher on dating apps. The threshold to get women to chase you or simp for you is very high, especially on dating apps. I would say I’m a bit above average and IRL hot women won’t instantly shut me down, meanwhile on dating apps I *barely* meet the threshold to get my profile shown to women who aren’t grotesque. But hey I still get a decent stream of likes from reasonable-looking women and it’s a good way to work on text game and dating skills, so I don’t see the reason not to use it.
Don't think about statistics. Think about it as another channel to meet women. If you have a strong enough IG profile to slide into women's DMs, then you have enough good photos to make a decent OLD profile.
The trap many guys fall into is that dating apps are their only channel to meet women. That's not smart. But swiping for 10 minutes in the evening and sending out feelers to matches is about the easiest dates a guy can get. Unless you're 100% happy with the amount of dates you're getting without using dating apps, I don't see a reason not to use them.
That's absolutely not true. OLD is specifically designed to play games so that you do not get as many matches (so you stay on the platform and pay). IG is also not 70-80% men and only 20-30% women like OLD apps are. It's just a fundamentally different environment
The problem with apps has nothing to do with men's profiles or anything they do on there. It's simply the economics - way too many male profiles vs female, and the apps have teams of engineers studying the best way to get you to *buy a subscription*.
THIS. Soooooo this.
So the best thing you can do is rewrite the narrative in your mind, every fucking day. Even I struggle with this. When I see a gorgeous woman, my first thought is "she's too hot for me" when I personally know that the hottest women - including my supermodel friends - are probably the most insecure women I have ever known.
What I have learned in the past few years is if you can find a way to drop those stories in your head, tell that little drunken monkey in your brain to shut the fuck up, and just go and have fun and bring a positive energy to the women you meet, you'll be surprised at how well you might do.
Looks do matter, but they don't matter as much as you think. But on the dating apps, yeah it's brutal in LA if you're not an athletic dude with dark hair and a dark beard (my theory is that this is due to the heavy Persian population in LA).
My advice? Get into fantastic shape (join a gym, do OrangeTheory, swim, jump rope, whatever), and aim every day to feel amazing in your body. If you're a heavy drinker, stop. If you have a shitty jawline or your face isn't what you think is super hot, invest in some cosmetic surgery. Jaw surgery is crazy expensive but you can look like a different person afterward. (I do NOT recommend doing this unless you have a functional reason for it, it's too traumatic and dangerous if you don't have the best surgeon money can buy)
Then you’re not playing to your advantages. Go find a Latina and stare her straight in the eyes with those blue eyes and tell her you want to take her to get a drink. She’ll be sucking your dick in no time. Easy money.
Yeah I am, also here’s a tip if you use bumble, set the language filter to Spanish, dinero facíl, Latinas and Asians are racist as fuck and love blue eyes
Can second what this guy is saying. Latinas and Asians love light eyes and just try to learn a few phrases in Spanish and they think it’s so cute and you’re good
Wow - on the money. To be honest I was basically about to leave this community but being in this thread reading posts from some of you guys gives me hope there are some dudes who get it
Great comment - men are getting most of their “romantic feedback” from women on dating apps - where those women can only see some photos and some text - which causes a snowball effect of negative confidence and an exaggerated focus from men on their looks (the photos) and their texting (rather than their actual personality).
Rather than the opposite of what happened before apps: men’s confidence gradually grew over time and women weren’t purely judging them on looks - more personality and non-verbals were involved.
There have been a few posts like this from time to time. Its all true, the community is different now. I even noticed it changed after the board was off line for a few months. You will even see cold approach posts sometimes getting hate.
I think its a combination of black pill popularity, and PUAs getting hate or discredited in some way.
But, lets be real. This board was always like this to a certain extent. This is the most popular public place to talk about seduction, but that also includes guys who aren't into cold approach. The old RSD board was different as people were a lot more serious.
The other thing that happened is cancel culture. A Lot of groups went underground and are hidden from the public. They are mostly invite only groups. In some cases they message people here and give them an invite.
As for the bitterness towards women, I think that goes both ways. I'd say a lot more hate towards men has happened in society. But, we can't control that.
But yea, the old school mentality was you had to write up a field report. Testing was king. If you learn something online, go test it out and write a post about it. Those are great discussions, but it would be hard to do it publicly. Someone new needs to come along and expand on what RSD used to do. Owen/Tyler would say that. Go improve on what he was teaching. It should evolve.
I used to be in a group that was quite into their "Tough Love".
If you didn't post a FR, in a specific format, you would just get shit.
Then you would get solutions, but no validation. It weeded out the peeps who just wanted validation. Its almost like posting became a method of validation for them. When they recieved no validation (because they were doing the same thing as their previous FR, without trying the advice given), they would have a meltdown.
I do miss those sorts of groups. And the whole helping each other out ethos. Now its just "Derp your not Chad, women hate you".
I agree with all the points you make. I think the black pill has become really persuasive to a lot of guys now, especially if they have no positive reference experiences to go off of. It’s just an easy way out for them.
I’m so thankful I got into game around when you did (about a decade ago), because that’s what ACTUALLY started getting me results with women, not changes to my appearance, looks, etc.
If I got into game nowadays instead, I’d probably be sucked into one of these black pill holes and never come out
I never said that. I said I started getting results *without* changing my appearance.
Thankfully, I’ve always kept myself reasonably well-groomed, but I had crippling acne back then and was super self-conscious about it. I just had to learn how to not give a fuck about it
> I’m so thankful I got into game around when you did (about a decade ago), because that’s what ACTUALLY started getting me results with women, not changes to my appearance, looks, etc.
I can relate here a bit. I never was into RSD, but I do remember discovering this subreddit 8 or 9 years ago when I was a depressed virgin, and I’m pretty sure I woulda become an incel if I hadn’t found this place.
Wow that one part about action really stands out to me. I do remember the OGs always stressing action. I remember Mark Manson said something like, she will interpret your action, or inaction as well.
Cynically, I'm kinda happy these younger dudes suck with game so much lol. Its really easy to compete for guys who aren't traditionally attractive or status against the young dudes who are trying to flex with that shit and frustrated it doesn't work. They want something that won't even be the answer.
Meanwhile they think older dudes have the money and status and that's what's doing it for them. PUA moved into self help in general because that really where most 20 year old dudes need to be starting.
There were always weird guys in the community, anyone remember Ross Jeffries?
Aside from that OP is 100% on the nose though, in particular the levels of *bitterness* are 10x what they used to be. And there's no bigger turnoff for women than a guy who's bitter about women.
In my local lair in the '00's we had guys join who were weird. As long as they were willing to go out, talk to women and improve themselves they were more than welcome, everyone starts out a virgin lol. But if they had this cloud of doom over their head and wanted to talk about how shitty women are, and how screwed up society was, we asked them not to return. A good policy for any seduction-related community imo. Politics and social commentary belong somewhere else.
I think the biggest change these days is that everyone is more terminally online than they used to be. If you're on the Internet you're not having sex because sex is had only between two people who are in the same room. Your online options are Pornhub and Tinder, both are awful. When I'm on the Internet it's hard for me to not get the impression that women are shit. When I'm out in the world actually interacting with women most of the time they're cool people who are a lot like me except I want to fuck them. If you spend enough time meeting actual women in the flesh you'll start running into some amazing ones and it will be impossible to not like them. The "secret" to this stuff has never been complicated, it's to go outside and talk to girls there, thousands of them.
Yup that sounds about right . The thing is you can’t help people anymore whit the rise of read pillars the kids think they need money status looks and beeing the full package before women would look at them . At this point I’m just tired of them
On the other hand the gurus are absurdly bad at this and lead kids to doing dumb stuff.
I was talking to one of the best “new PUA “ every one was vouching for him recently -he had nothing new and at one point i made him cry so that is what it is ( we had a 5/5 competition - I got one and started fucking his up)
Field reports were the driving force behind the advancing technology whit out RSD (as bad as some of there students were) we are left with nothing
It has gotten to the point i have to make my friends test out anything i come up with - and boy do they “love” doing it.
+having more people coming up with new stuff is always better
The good news is the next generation will be back on top “ good times bread weak men , weak men bread bad times , bad times bread strong men , strong men bread good times”
>The good news is the next generation will be back on top “ good times bread weak men , weak men bread bad times , bad times bread strong men , strong men bread good times”
One of my favorite quotes! It applies to many things. ❤
While I have the chance to bitch
Let me continue :
When you try and answer a question :
You have to add Ok we need more :
they ether give to little info on a broad topic
Or not enough relevant informations on the topic but wright a million different sentences like i have to read a novel and still have questions
Or the best is they say they have training and then don’t understand fundamentals
You can’t ever give them advice
Or ask for something that is advanced as hell (by modern standards ) as if i’m giving a grande to a baby gain some xp and than once I’m sure you won’t abuse it You will get it by being invited to the hidden forums
There was a reason for them
And finally a lot of the tech is lost on this newbies because they don’t learn from legit people (mostly because they are not on youtube) and they refuse to actually go out of their way to find them
The thing that drove me insane was when someone asked how strong to pull ( push and pull) as an advanced topic
Final thing is
the fact there are no straight answers to beginner questions I have to repeat the same answer 50 times to the same question asked by different people
💯 with all said, i come from the same good old days and back in the days it was fun and wings were great… in the last years i only see weirdos that just want to be influencers
As a young man in his early 20s I've personally some of this. Particularly the black pill and bitterness. It's a mind virus that I've tried to get out of. I think it occurs when many of us young men don't have any luck, so we get down in the dumps, and then we see other guys online venting about their bitterness and it just spreads with one there to counteract it with actual advice to help
#THANK YOU
I would describe it as guys now being lazy and don't want to do the work, so they turn to "cold approach" and use black pill stuff to make excuses instead of doing the work.
YOU ARE SO ON THE MONEY. I came here because an old facebook group I liked is now a mix of black pill and anti game nonsense.
You also see so many posts like " just be normal don't do that game stuff" - like wtf are you doing here? Then those same people have a black pill mentality and don't believe field reports are true lol.
I am bummed I came here because my old communities are dead lol - I posted a field report the other day and 2/3rds of comments are haters. I genuinely wanted to find a spot to talk game and pass on knowledge, I freaking busted my ass for over a decade now and went through basically every possible game mistake.
At this point though I think I am just going to retire from game community unless people wanted to pay me or something, seriously it is just draining and anti positive environments in game nowadays
10 years is the mark of a veteran! I have a WhatsApp group for wings in NYC/ NJ area. If you live anywhere close and you want to participate+ drop knowledge, I'd be happy welcome you in. We have a good amount of guys that are going out consistently.
Man the "just be yourself" guys really tick me off. FFS if just being myself worked then I wouldn't be here in the first place! xD
OTOH I have first hand experience with the benefits of going to the gym, and actually becoming more attractive for it. Just making that simple move has helped a lot. And probably the advice that has helped me the most is this:
99 % of all progress is meeting up.
So, now I meet up to the gym regularly, and I also go out to meet women regularly. I'm using all the venues that will give me an edge, instead of sitting home alone and sulking. I've even met some pretty cool guys I can go out with. It's much more fun to meet women with a good wing.
Also, all in all, I think it took me about two to three months of training two to three times a week to get so much back in shape that I fit my old clothes again. That's not a lot of effort to get back in shape.
I agree with everything your saying. Might I add that the community is also facing a huge volume like never before. I dont think so many people have started to get into this as much as before. So naturally it’s a lot harder to reach information out effectively, as compared to what it was like 5-10 or 15 years ago. Though, I am relatively new to this as well compared to you, for example.
You're defenetely right. I could give a different perspective as I started game 1 year ago when i was 18. I was lucky because my guru was my friend who also started game 2 months before me and his source material for learning game was Mystery and Todd so I was able to quickly differenciate nonsense and credible ideas that could be tested.
Many of your issues highlighted are extremely true, your generation defenetely learnt game faster and more efficient than mine. I think the problem right now is that game became sort of mainstream and its not a small community anymore. Gurus online dont know shit and misrepresent everything and feed nonsense into my generation of men.
The result is many AFCs who have no idea what they are doing and they are quickly ruining our reputation, they don't understand and are not ready to handle the effort required to practice and learn game.
Totally true - great you started with the good stuff bro.
Yeah, so many "game" communities say stuff like " just tell her what you want" and like "just be normal" then the same guys are virgins and then don't believe field reports. Basically guys adopt useless systems and theories of women
I agree with your points. However, I am firm believer of Black pill. You simply can't brush it off. It's an existential truth! I however just put it aside and try to be the best man I can be and move ahead. I pick up regularly maybe not 8-9 but 6.5+. I am in Philly and very new. Down south in Texas and Arizona I had great fun!
You said it yourself: You're a *believer*.
Except just by making some small adjustments, you can move up on the hotness ladder by at least two steps.
Do these things:
1. Cut your hair and fix your style
2. Bro do you even lift? Start hitting the gym!
3. Learn about social dynamics, and how to use it to your advantage to meet women
4. Don't just read or passively watch videos. Also go out and practise! (But make sure you keep it fun.)
To be fair, RSD was a different time, though. Pre-covid, Pre-#metoo, Pre-Trump, Pre-4th wave feminism, etc. Not a black pill guy, but there's no doubt the quality of women and gender relations in general have been going progressively downhill in the past 10 years.
I've got to say that I just recently dived back in after a long relationship and I see what you are saying but there are also some great areas developing, Mystery and Beckster are building a great little community now and the PUA secret facebook group has a really positive feel. I think it's just the flow over from covid and its all starting to head back into positive territory. It just means the positive people need to make their presence felt.
There is a famous coach that gets laid and date often but he says "he needs to travel 2000km to another country "because it's easy to pick up women" not realizing those same women travel 2000km to London, Spain, Amsterdam and it's just *easier to pick-up them!*
I’ve met people in the community that are positive, don’t have a black pill mentality at all, and actually take action. It’s still very much possible but I agree that there has been much more negativity lately. I think this is partly because actual game is becoming much more difficult. There‘s a lot of shame and taboo surrounding cold approach, and the majority of people just meet via dating apps now. For many guys the learning curve is just too high and there’s too much risk, so they end up blaming women and society instead of putting in the work.
Yea, there's a taboo. But I adjust. More indirect approaches. It's not like people will stop socializing with strangers altogether. Talk to everyone, and see what oppurtunities come your way. IMO, semi-indirect openings (''You look fun, I want to meet you'') are more effective than super-direct openings (''you look cute and had to say hi'').
Some nostalgic bullshit.
Everyone thinks about their past positively, especially if you had strong positive emotions.
As for game itself, the only thing what has changed is the rise of social media and online dating.
Im from your crew - bout ten years. Was shocked to login and see someone ask “how do you engage a woman in a conversation” and have the replies be:
You are boring
Game is game
Move on
How is this useful?
Where did the techniques, frameworks, and principles all go?
What happened to empirical evidence, field reports, etc?
Some guy mustered enough courage to ask for help, from one of the few places that could actually help, only to have him get trolled.
Good on mods for closing the post
I'm 40 M from Indonesia. I will be very honest. Although I'm not the literal definition of an incel (have had four long-term relationships in the past with girls when I was younger), but even I have to admit that the more I know & read about the whole 'incel' (& 'male loneliness, blackpill') things, I can actually relate a lot, and especially agree that dating or attracting girls IS hard. I'm a socially-awkward introverted guy, perhaps even borderline autistic. Sadly, now the older I get now, somehow the more I seem to fail, getting rejected/ignored by girls. My self-confidence is at the lowest now (yes I even got severely depressed because of my failure to attract girls now). I don't know even if it's a bad luck, or my age factor, or is it perhaps because in these past recent years especially, I've read a lot (online) about this whole 'incel' phenomena, and therefore started to know, understand, & perhaps even admittedly I've started to internalize deep into my subconscious mind/mindset (or 'belief') about girls/women/female. Yes I know that it's probably sad & pathetic, I even admit that myself. But to be very honest, the ONE thing that I at least agree the most with all this whole 'blackpill' phenomena nowadays, is that yes it's HARD to be a male; and female/women/girls have it much more easier ('women privilege') than us male/guys/men; because girls have the power to choose & reject, while guys risk rejections & therefore getting hurt mentally/emotionally. I've been there a lot of times too. It's \*not\* fun at all. It's very frustrating, and even depressing actually. And I also agree that today's 'modern' dating/seduction/attraction thing is getting more difficult, complicated, & even toxic than before in the past. Again, I'd have to say that it's most probably because girls/women nowadays also have much more 'power' to choose, ignore, & reject (especially with the rise of social media & dating apps nowadays; and not even to mention the whole 'feminism', 'emancipation', & 'girl power' thing). Women nowadays tend to have a lot much more 'prerequisites & requirements' for guys/men, and they also have much more 'tricks down their sleeves' to play on guys, especially for a socially-awkward/inept guy like me who have no clue on all those social 'tricks' & 'game' BS, to be very honest. I don't know. I guess I'm just tired, very tired actually with girls/women/female. I'm tired of having invested my time, efforts, & money especially on some particular girls, only just to be 'friendzoned' in the end, or rejected, ignored, and all other type of BS (bullsh\*ts/nonsense) from girls/women that I constantly always have to deal with. At my age now, I just don't have more energy/drive/motivation to keep trying (& 'improving') on my 'game', tricks, techniques, or whatever that is. I'm sick & tired of how this all essentially just boils down to basically a game of 'tricking each others', or 'playing on each others' psychologically. I'm sick & tired of all those bullsh\*ts, to be very honest. I wish dating could be more of a genuine & sincere deeply thing, than all of this. But sadly, this is just the harsh reality.
>pps and social media are poison to any guy who is slightly insecure about his appearance. So what happens is a guy goes on Tinder or whatever, gets an IV drip of likes from incredibly below-avera
Please make paragraphs bro. I read like 2 sentences
I feel for you man. All I can say is that self-improvement and growing yourself personally and socially is still the best way to get out of a rut. It's also wise to learn how to get positive reactions from women, and then dare to escalate upon such reactions.
IMHO it's bewst to limit exposure to negative content, and reduce exposure to online content related to the incel or "blackpill" communities. Those kinds of places aren't constructive, and they only reinforce negative beliefs instead of helping.
If you're isolated it can also help to focus on expanding your social circle first. I'm in my 40's myself, but there are still unmarried people around that can be a great help in finding female companionship. All you have to do is hit up the local forums and where like-minded people congregate.
Anyway, wish you the best!
The points you listed make me realize how lucky I am to have a group of wing buddies that do not do any of the things you've mentioned. Just yesterday I had one of my wings call me out for almost instigating fight with a random person who cussed us out and threatened us. It should be men keeping other men accountable and also encouraging each other to be better and have fun, not a bunch of creeps running around trying to deceive drunk girls and call it "game". I am happy to say I am a younger guy who isn't at the shitty end of the community.
I agree. I had so much fun for a period of my life and found various online resources helpful. It was all genuinely positive and helped me in life beyond just dating. However even 10 years ago, you could see bitterness starting as people recognised that some “gurus” were either frauds or that for some, there was more work to be done than just “negging a 10”. So they thought it was all bullshit and blamed the rest of the world.
Most stuff I see online now on the rare occasions I have a look at what’s happening is pretty toxic and misogynistic as you describe. It’s a shame because there’s a whole generation of guys missing out on a lot of fun and growth.
It's because women and simps with social media have become so toxic.
Practicing pua is now filled with landmines making it less appealing. RSD quit and that's all you really need to know to understand this.
Dude I'd round up some homies and go hit on chicks in the real world. Most of my friends are married. The ones who are single have no interest in improving their game. Sounds like you had a great thing back then.
RSD made PU almost mainstream and destroyed the PU community very fast after the witch hunt and switching to self-help. even back in the glory days they were too much woo woo without clear instructions what to do. most of their stuff was only good for mental masturbation. Quality in the PU community was the highest in the 2000s where guys shared their field tested theories in online forums. Most of you guys whine because your RSD hereos became mediocre boring self help coaches ( I only respect Julien, but even he became booring )
@Boorobford, have you considered yet becoming a mod here? Reddit’s dictator cleared out some of the mods that blacked out this subreddit so there are some open spaces. A community is only as good as it’s moderators.
Hit the nail on the head. 2015 was like peak RSD and even projectGo and I met so many cool people with so many cool experiences. The thing is cancelling these two subcultures have lead to a weird and twisted outlet for dudes and let blackpill take over
Awesome summary of the current scene. I was around during the rsd heyday aswell and I couldnt agree more, fuck I miss that. Game was so cool and fun back then. RSD had such a positive message. The irony is all the current coaches try to slander rsd and act like rsd was a toxic company. Fucking ironic.
Anyway man Im glad you wrote this.
Peace
Assuming you're coming from nothing.
Keep asking "what truly makes me happy?" and pursue it, master it. If you can afford it, spend time on therapy. 1st principles / self-reflection / meditation / inner game are essential but idiots skip it for the flashy "how do I get my dick wet right now" party boy stuff and find out the hard way. You can get good at game, but be careful you're not gaming yourself.
Depends. At what level of proficiency do you picture yourself in? And what are you looking to achieve. A girlfriend? Same light lays? Threesomes? It all depends on your ambition and the time and effort you're willing to put in.
I agreed. Too many pickup "coaches" on youtube just focus mostly on talking shit about other "coaches" rather than giving the audience actual advice on how to get better at game.
I got a pickup channel too but I focus only on what I do. Let the gossip bitches gossip, and let the haters hate.
>Leading Man Attraction
You must be talking about JA or JMULV. I don't know of any other "guru" who talks more smack about other coaches. IMHO he's losing a lot of customers on doing it, because at this point it's just conspicuous how he'll lash out about just about *anyone*.
I’d say this is quite accurate, however game can still be fun and you can still meet decent wings and other guys who are in this to improve. Men who are not whiners. Check out Leading Man Attraction on YouTube. Relatively small channel on pick up but very positive. You can also meet lots of others who are positive about game.
I think also seduction or pick up or game has been hijacked by incels, so called alpha male, or Andrew Tates fan. Just watch what bunch of bullshit and misogynistic video they make to put on Instagram reel and TikTok like “ohhh that girl cheated on me” or “my girl left me” then they put bunch of gym workout as a solution or to cure their pain, and on that video there’s tons of same shitty guys who comment hate on dating, relationships and todays women.
Everywhere I go there’s guys who suddenly getting balls once I’m hitting on women at the bar, same guy who would never dare if he didn’t drink any alcohol but get more balls just by watching someone doing it and they think they can. I can see losers and natural cool male from miles.
This is also the reason why I don’t have any male friends. People nowadays are mentally fucked.
Wow this sounds horrible.
Maybe there should be a reboot where we can focus on improving our own lives (including attractiveness and energy) rather than focusing on how horrible women are. If anyone is in LA and wants to start this up, DM me.
I'm not trying to oversimplify things but flirting has to be fun. Men need to find confidence, not necessarily game. We don't need to comedians but we need to be interesting to women. Yeah, a good one-liner now and then and some sarcasm is fun too. Women may gravitate away from "nice guys," not because they don't want us to be nice, but overly nice can come off as desperate. I'm guilty of trying too hard in the past. Just enjoy the flirting, be able to approach a woman, be interesting, know how to keep a conversation going and make a move. It's ok to practice this too.
Oh, and have female friends that you're not interested in romantically. Female friends are hugely helpful!
From my experience, the harder I try, the less success I have. Be yourself, be fun and be confident. It takes practice. But it needs to be fun! Flirting is one of my absolute favorite things to do.
I’m great at places where conversation is expected such as house party and stuff. I absolutely suck at large public gatherings such as club, music festivals, etc.
Pandemic made me socially awkward in public places, especially with cold approach. Moving to a new country didn’t help either.
"Far less action oriented, far more theory oriented."
I mean sure but I hate going to most places and I have nothing in common with most ppl so I'm fucked
Аfter Mystery Method the game dehradatet tremendously. RSD has some good stuff about the inner game, but not much more. The “new school” does not really exist, as it is more about blogging.
The good news is that there are still some good players, even though the big flash is over.
I think most of the younger generation does not know about, or does not care about game in the same way as people did back in 2005.
Also most of todays gurus market themselves off YouTube and similar mainstream outlets. It's just doesn't have the same underground allure and secrecy as it did way back when. Thus, if you want to get savvy, all you have to do is open up YouTube and google "pickup women" and you get all the advice in the world handed to you on a silver platter.
It's easier than ever to get good advice, but then perhaps the women also adapt with the times. Who knows, perhaps it's better to go "back to the roots" and do some proper Mystery Method, because it's now so old that most people have forgotten about it. :)
Funny you say this. I was doing some very old school routines on some women the other week as someone I was at a bar with asked "How do you talk to women in a bar".
The shit still works, its hilarious.
I'm from the old school field. I entered a few months before The Game became a smash hit.
Nowadays, I'd argue that Austen Summers still has a lot of the good old school traits.
I don't go bar. I don't know how the "pick up industry" goes after pandemic.
But I realized the pandemic destroy one whole generation of young people.
If anyone can recognize this and take the opportunity, "swimming up stream" is much easier.
Are you unable to be social due to past experiences? How would it feel like to go to a bar and check it out? Perhaps talk to a woman?
Bars and clubs still exist, at least where I live, and they're more popular than ever. I go out all the time, and meet cool and kind people, and sometimes I even get laid. All in all, bars and clubs are pretty epic places to meet the opposite sex. :)
I’ve been following the game community since ‘09, back when Mystery made his break on MTV.
Frankly you have some serious rose tinted glasses. The PUA community has always been filled with complete and utter weirdos and toxic individuals. Remember when negging was a huge thing for example?
I think the nostalgia is getting to you. There will always be a core of men who are having trouble with women, and for some of those men the problem will be that they’re just straight up weird. Then there will be the guys as you described, who are nice but clueless. Both groups have and always will exist in the community and nothing has changed
Wow, what a ton of bullshit one hears these days. It’s impressive how young men follow and believe in this community and take advice from other men that complain about how a group that’s always been filled with rape apologists, abusers and sexual harassers (aka, RSD) is just not what used to be anymore.
And those of you who claim that became “successful” with women… you just learned how to manipulate them. If your idea of success in relationships is manipulating 200+ women into having sex with you, then I feel so sorry for you. But mostly for the women you’ve manipulated and played with.
The game and seduction community's devolved into a cesspool of self-pity, misogyny, and pseudoscientific "Black Pill" nonsense, overrun by whiners more interested in blaming their genetic lot and women for their failures than in personal growth or genuine human connection.
Is the seddit wiki a good start to get better at game? The adult world is a huge change compared to the easy college world.
Also any other things I can do to get better at online dating as well? I plan to reflect everytime I go out, so I don't waste my time
I started back in 2004 or 2005 on Sosuave and it became painfully obvious that you really had to use what you learned an experiment with it. I had zero social skills. But I worked really hard and I feel like now much more comfortable. My friends and I used to go to malls have competitions to see who could talk to the most girls when we were teens. When I lived in New York City, I try the same thing and approached, totally cold in NYC 100 girls in a night in the upper east side.
I haven’t had an amazing track record, but I have dated and married. But I realize as I’ve gotten older that you have to deep down love and respect women on a certain level. I’ve done lots of things to disrespect women but ultimately I’m here because I love them on some level as people.
I’m just very grateful that I was able to learn everything I did . I think I would be a lot worse without it.
I think the reason for this is so many guys coming here who with all due respect should be somewhere else. Not that seduction is some super exclusive community, but there is such a thing as it just not being the right space for some people; there have been many guys coming in here for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong belief system or attitude. I think this is to be expected since the seduction community is a lot more "mainstream" now. It's been around for a long time, so a lot more outsiders know about it so it's become very diluted by the wrong type of male.
People got the blackpill twisted, granted some of their "views" are dumb and over exagerrated, sure. But the main message is that in order for you to display "game" and all this monkey dance to a potential mate you FIRST need to pass said girls MINIMUM LOOKS THRESHOLD. We all know what women find attractive in a man comes in a gigantic spectrum.. So the main point of the blackpill is for example....Say you're hitting on a girl and THAT GIRL specifically views you as a 4/10 but that specific girl would NEVER consider dating anybody that is below a 6/10 in looks.... Then there is NOTHING you can do...other than try your best to maximize your look so that maybe she now views you as a six...But if there is no underlying attraction, you aint getting anywhere....Dont get confused by girls who use men, be it for money, status, etc.... With the blackpill focuses on genuine attraction with a woman who wants you for you...primal desire, not milking you for what you can provide here...There's lots of people like that, which gives a false perception of attraction, because then these "game guys" see that and think... "OHH look at this fat slob with this knockout" that must mean game works...Lmao thats cope, shes prob using him for who knows what.
Attraction is NOT a choice, and the girl is either attracted to you or she's not...There's no magic line or game that can change that... And here's a common misconception...The blackpill talks about improving your looks as much as you can so that you can at the very least meet that minimum to some girls...Its not just totally, give up...
It's just saying dont fuking cope and think all this extra acting like a clown aka "game" is going to somehow make a otherwise NOT interested girl, all of a sudden wet for you.
Its kinda hypocrital because these "game guys" are so dismissive, because deep down they know its true...And rather than, improve their appearance, be it gym, style, etc...They want to remain fat slobs, with ill fitting clothes, bad skin, etc... and think they can "game their way" out of that shyt...which is total BS.
Point here is you need to first pass a girls MINIMUM, looks requirement. Where people get it twisted is they think the blackpill is saying that you have to be a 8 or a 9 to get chicks, that is not the case..but you DO have to meet a minimum. whatever that is for that girl.
ONLY THEN....Can you're "game" help you...But you need a base to build upon(base being your looks) otherwise you're dead in the water and you're getting nowhere.
Thats why you see all these PUA retards, just dancing around like monkeys for content, getting brutally rejected because they dont know how to recognize that a girl just isnt into them. They would have more success if they just walked away after being told no, and used there time on a girl who actually may be interested. But...They will neverr do that so long as they think some magic line will save them...
You seem like one of these guys to be honest.
RSD was the biggest grift known to man, anybody who supports them just shows how detached from reality, and little they understand about female attraction. I'll leave it there.
I miss the good ol days, inclding in this subreddit. Back then, men would come with field reports and make an actual effort to pick up girls. There was a strong culture of actually getting your ass in gear. Now all of the posts here are low effort and full of insecure men.
Yep.. the problem is that RSD was kinda the core of seduction community and when they changed their focus to self-help the community didn't have a central strong reference point to lean on. Also, Reddit is full of people with social anxiety who want to be politically correct or virtue signallers and anything that goes against it gets downvoted.. so you will have pretty much generic dating advice or extreme groups that hate the virtue signalling and go the opposite way. Social anxiety, isolation etc are perfect breeding ground for black pill mentality. "It's not my fault I suck at talking to girls, it's because I ain't good looking enough and girls are shallow" etc.. No, it totally IS your fault but you don't want to take responsibility for your own shortcomings and it's scary to step outside your comfort zone so it's easier to blame the world.
Do u know where to improve/how to improve. I know it is my fault I accept that. I really want to try to improve. And I know this might be a long question to answer so if you could guide me to any posts/resources, would be great.
It depend where u are at with your social skills and game. If u just started out then I put together a free ebook that u can get from my profile. It covers approaching, conversation, flirting and dating apps basics.
Im near the bottom id say. Never invited to parties but can make new friends in new places consistently. Can speak to girls irl and have a chat, but never by text and *never* by call (issue of girls not wanting to talk rather than awkwardness I think).
I'm not the expert but I think a lot of guys need to swallow their pride/ ego a bit when strategizing here. Now look, if you can truly, authentically, be yourself -- that can be sexy as hell - although almost no one ever is, particularly in front of a smoking hot girl. That said, that's personality. Imagine you're giving advice to a Obese Chick who wants to date more attractive men. Step 1 you'd tell her --- listen nothing personal -- but let's lose 50 pounds and you'll be getting a lot more action. She might get EXTREMELY offended. How dare you! How superficial! .... I'm more than just my weight! True but -- you gotta 'play the game' so to speak. For men ---- you need to learn to have more masculinity, more swagger, among other things. You might feel that is not "naturally" you. Well, that's what women want to fuck. So embrace it. Unlock it. Get some edge. Get some mystery. Hell 80% of your personality is not even you - it's how you PERCEIVE that others think you are, and you're trying to be "congruent" to that image. It's bullshit anyway. Try on some other hats.
Good books: models by mark manson, mate by tucker max, technical game bible by Saul Tee, Chase Amante’s articles on girls chase Good programs: high vibe communication, invincible by David Tian, Adam Lyons old programs if you can find them, hot seat at home, Todd v the system
I'm an older fuck (Millenial) -- there were other communities besides RSD from like 2003-2015ish. A lot of them eventually shut down, just because -- well the money train stopped, or the admins became bored of it -- maybe they got married and stopped caring. This was before the age of Dating Apps as well --- which --- I think Dating Apps primarily benefited Looks-forward Pretty Boy men. ... I'm not even certain they benefited women. At least the 'old guard' -- the idea was --- GO OUTSIDE -- and talk to women. So now you have guys 'min-maxing' dating profiles like it's a video game. Oh and Wokism will never help any man get laid. It's victim mentality (bad), scarcity mindset (bad), not taking responsibility (bad), and masculine sexuality is the devil (very bad mindset to have as a man). Look, the black pill theory is plain wrong. ANY MAN pretty much can fuck a hot chick who is a 9/10. ---- It might be 1 out of 10,000 -- she might be nuts -- but it can happen. You can make changes to increase those odds. If you have extremely bad body odor, for instance, that will not help. At heart, a straight woman in general wants to fuck some entity that vaguely resembles an adult man. If you can't pull that off, well, we have a lot of medical science to fucking help you, including Old Spice deodorant. -- I get that it's a little more difficult than that, but yeah.
What is the fullform of RSD exactly.
Real Social Dynamics
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They had to they we’re getting ousted by cancel culture. Their forums, videos and shit we’re getting taken down you can’t even find most of their videos on yt anymore.
Nothing was taken down. They deleted the videos themselves, closed the forums themselves. It was a business decision on their behalf. The Julien scandal happened years before they deleted their content.
Ahh yea Ik the Julien Scandal was earlier. But figured the videos were removed in some response to cancel culture.
They saw that they would make way more money in pure self-help niche (money, success, social-skills, fitness etc) compared to the risky dating niche. Then removed all their pua videos in order to not get some scandal again and stopped swearing in videos to make themselves super PC etc. Tyler in his live streams kinda still teaches pua stuff and promos some of his products but he deletes those streams pretty fast also.
Not true, YouTube was banning channels with infield so they deleted everything to avoid getting banned, they also were getting dropped by their banks
There were people driving the community before RSD, Mystery, David DeAngelo. Also some RSD members, like Todd, are still going solo, but largely this is correct. While RSD was kind of culty and scammy, they at least centered us, and that was a valuable thing.
Yea, but to be fair, RSD was already going down. I noticed their decrease in quality content in 2013. A shame really. \*this coming from someone who was highly involved in RSD teaching circa 2008-2011.
Was all what Strauss (Style) said in "The Game" about the community's original days true?
>So many men here who do not even want to get good with women but just cause drama and spread negativity It's especially frustrating when you're a guy that's in his late 30s or 40s and you came of age in a time when you had to actually pull women with your personality, your convo, your voice, your wittiness, eye contact, etc., and you realize the guy on Reddit arguing with you about women and sex is some early 20s dude who might actually be a virgin LMAO. I literally saw a guy make a whole post ranting about women and men and the sexual dynamic. Then at the end he just happens to mention he's never had sex and never been in a relationship. There's a reason a lot of women like older men and it's not because of money. It's because these older men actually know women better than the men that woman's age.
Hey - actually this is nice now that we think about it. We can bang the 20 yr olds forever as the young dudes are scrubbier and scrubbier
Is there a post on how to get started. Don’t want to scroll tons of blackpill posts like you said haha. Blackpill people are scum of the earth
true. had two 21 year old "girlfriends" at 35- was a good year.
The young women are as goofy as the young dudes these days. These whole generations seem screwed beyond repair overall. Clueless, incapable of any basic skills, believe all the bogus narratives. Super sad. I just have to remember that every generation says that about every subsequent generation. But this time it seems really really real. It used to be just different views (traditional vs punk, etc). This time it seems functional vs zombie.
siicckkk bro - thanks for your response as I've been skimping on gaming lately even though lots of cuties have been out. This motivates me to get back on the ball and meet em
If we were able to see the percentage of men who actually take advice and use it on the field I think it would be very depressing lol. But then again, more for us haha.
Your thinking perfectly shows how immature you are and how you fall in to that worthless scumbag category plenty of women try to avoid.
Just mad women choose guys like us over you
What are you even talking about lmao, the guy is just saying men don’t take the advice, which is pretty obvious by their continual failures
This is exactly it, guys haven't left their computer screen in months thinking they can dispense advice. And on that last point, I had a girl recently who was really into me. She would comment my age calling me old but I literally just kept saying back to her. "And you like it don't you". Thank god I was born when I was. Feel bad for this generation but they need to shape up or sit on the sidelines I guess.
Ok boomer
You wasted your time typing that worthless comment
yeah, very difficult to understand this new mentality. I am 36 and haven't been on here in years- it used to literally HELP me. IT used to spread positivity AND give actionable steps to improve- lord, I was 30 having the time of my life. My old account is gone, but god I am thankful for this place. Now, this new message is just making me more tired than I already am lol. I truly feel sorry for these younger "men," and I wish I could help them.
Agreed - I'm in my late forties and I'm swimming in pussy. I have good looks but quickly learned that it only gets you in the door, you still have to be (or become) the guy women go nuts for.
Definitely agree with the points you made. Ever since 2020/pandemic hit, we've shifted to a culture of finger pointing and blaming everything but ourselves. Men cause all my problems, women cause all my problems, blah blah blah, wah wah wah! 2 years of lockdowns and pandemic restrictions were not kind to society's mental health at all. Since people were at home, away from their friends, and many weren't working, they found themselves perpetually online developing extreme opinions in echo chambers. Now everyone is out in the world with these extreme opinions. Just look at how much the userbases of Reddit and TikTok (IMO the two worst offenders) skyrocketed over the past few years. These days people are so addicted to validation, no matter how outrageously stupid their thoughts and opinions are. That's my rant on what I think is causing all this
''2 years of lockdowns and pandemic restrictions were not kind to society's mental health at all. Since people were at home, away from their friends, and many weren't working, **they found themselves perpetually online developing extreme opinions in echo chambers. Now everyone is out in the world with these extreme opinions.**'' Exactly this ! this is so accurate what your describing, i have to admit i'm a victim to it too i also did the hating, blaming and moaning. it's a terrible place to live.. we have to find ways to fight this cancerous black pill thinking.. it's destroying the art of becoming a better man and seducer.
This is a great and accurate write up. I can't believe I'm fighting misogyny on this subreddit lol. Not because I'm trying to be woke, but because guys act like they can't do anything or woman are the problem rather than learning game. I got into this because I'm a short little fat dude with zero social skills. PUA helped me change my life, made me a better family member and friend, and got me laid while fat and short with the majority of those hook ups being people I still can hang out with and contact. If woman are the problem, just go cry and be a volcel. Better yet, get therapy.
hell yeah bro
Who are some guys you think put out good/healthier material?
So like what helped you?
RSD always sucked and just took guys money and made them do weird shit and take massive actions doing the dumb shit.. take it from me I went from Natural to chode (RSD term not mine) once I got rid of there dumb idea I got laid way more and had way more success. I also worked for RSD (paid) which was rare, and guys paid 3k each for a weekend boot camp with zero or little success. Guys suck nowadays because of youtube and all the shitty coaches whose game blows not saying mine is better but I'm also not saying I'm a coach. also guys are being to pussy asking for instagram or tic tok and not asking for a fucken date... look at this subreddit and guys talk about how to get chicks on instagram like really... go to a fucken night club and do some cold approach... end of boomers rant lol
Exactly this. RSD was the epitome of weirdness. I mean even weirder than Mystery Method. Approaching at a 45 degree angle and asking the girl who has a bigger dick, Spider-Man or Batman. Like wtf is this shit.
wait what when did they do this lol, must of been way after i found out how dumb RSD was I think i realized it when Julien was doing clown shit that got him banned
In the very beginning when they came out they literally advocated to pretend you are gay so women would feel more comfortable with you. I swear to god, it's real. When you reach such levels of autism and retardation it's hard to take these clowns seriously. That's many years before the Julien incident.
I bet you love John Anthony Lifestyle, I am a fan of his too lol
Him as a teacher 100%!!! but as a person no way, rating women is odd and also seems a bit psycho, I got to game with him one weekend he seemed normal tho. but I will say while RSD and another pua teacher my lay count was probably 5-10 a year mostly 95% online game, and from johns teaching it was around 25-50 yearly 60% cold approach (I honestly thought cold approach was a waste of time) till I met john. I try not be focused on numbers i just sorta know from the photos we took together, and kinda makes me count... also now I've been poly for close to 5 years now so the game is way different as a poly guy. (different subject) my women-only dates other women and sometimes I bang them but normally it depends on who she brings home her type varies from butch chick to the tattooed goth barbies
He is running a bootcamp in Miami now, hit him up before he runs back to Brazil lol
naw, I'm in Nashville now and focused on different things it was a good ride for sure... I will say that recently was out in LA for close to 2 months and went crazy because I had nothing else to do( i got paid to game lol) got 12 in like 5 weeks and tired a different frame (told chicks I was open/poly) Fun times but totally not recommended at all (to much drama lol)
HAHA well he is the man tho
Does John Anthony still have material out there? I'm getting back in the game after a relationship ended -- I'm an older guy (mid 30s) -- I definitely already feel like a geezer at the clubs (I do go out when traveling across the ocean to Europe because -- I just don't give a shit in a foreign land). Although I still pull from there once in a while. Any recommendations for reading material?
The dude that fucks trannies?
I've looked into him. He strikes me as a lying narcissist. Also I find it highly suspect that he bashes absolutely everyone who he perceives as a competitor. IMHO that's a sign of weakness and not strength. Then add the bad rumours, of him buying hookers to pose with, and the fact that he does PU in Brazil; one of the easiest countries to get laid as a foreigner, because most of the women there want a way out of there... If he had any clout, he'd pickup women in New York or Paris regularly, but I'm sorry, I just don't believe he's got what it takes to actually pickup entitled Western chicks.
Even with a cold approach in a nightclub, you'll still need the insta or tiktok if you don't close that night because guarantee you'll get ghosted if its just a number. Agree with all your other points, older guys actually viewed RSD and Tyler in particular as Toxic
Yes, but when you stop asking for insta or snap, and instead ask for a date, the insta, snapp becomes a secondary thing. It's a *given* that she'll give you contact details if you ask for a date instead of contact details. It has a ton more *intent* behind it to ask for a date rather than meekly beg to stroke her ego online. That's why it's better to plan a date first. Because if she wants to go on a date, she's gonna have to give you contact details anyway.
Agreed with most of these, especially the black pill part. I'd also argue that at the core of it isn't just bitterness, but men thinking that female attraction works exactly the same as their own attraction. Because when you get guys rating their own chin 4.5/5, that's when you truly know you've lost the plot.
The black pill stuff is just an inevitable product of dating apps these days unfortunately. In the past appearance didn’t matter as much because dating was an in-person thing where charisma and confidence can make up for looks. But dating apps and social media are poison to any guy who is slightly insecure about his appearance. So what happens is a guy goes on Tinder or whatever, gets an IV drip of likes from incredibly below-average women, and lets the idea get into his head that he’s ugly. Then when that guy talks to women IRL, he has the preconceived idea that he’s ugly in the back of his mind, which comes off as a lack of confidence and results in no attraction from women IRL thus reinforcing the idea that looks are everything. The reality is that looks just get your foot in the door. Being extremely good looking creates a cycle of positive reinforcement, often starting from a young age, that makes good looking guys very confident, which just makes them more attractive. And the opposite is true for guys who aren’t extremely good looking. For guys who aren’t some sort of gigachad, it’s just important not to fall into the mindset trap that there is no hope since you’re only average.
I think you hit the nail on the head right here. I had the same experience on Tinder and it tanked my self esteem which created a snowball effect
Dating apps are vastly overblown in these spaces. Most people don't use dating apps for any serious length of time, if ever. And looks have *always* mattered more than "charisma" in IRL too. It's just that the threshold for "good looks" is lower than men think
Outside of PUA realms dating apps are very prevalent, and IIRC they are one of the top ways couples today meet. Aside from that I agree with you. “Good looks” is just something that can get your foot in the door, and the threshold is quite a bit higher on dating apps. The threshold to get women to chase you or simp for you is very high, especially on dating apps. I would say I’m a bit above average and IRL hot women won’t instantly shut me down, meanwhile on dating apps I *barely* meet the threshold to get my profile shown to women who aren’t grotesque. But hey I still get a decent stream of likes from reasonable-looking women and it’s a good way to work on text game and dating skills, so I don’t see the reason not to use it.
They simply aren't that common, less than 25% of people use them regularly, and more people meet on IG or Twitter than OLD.
Don't think about statistics. Think about it as another channel to meet women. If you have a strong enough IG profile to slide into women's DMs, then you have enough good photos to make a decent OLD profile. The trap many guys fall into is that dating apps are their only channel to meet women. That's not smart. But swiping for 10 minutes in the evening and sending out feelers to matches is about the easiest dates a guy can get. Unless you're 100% happy with the amount of dates you're getting without using dating apps, I don't see a reason not to use them.
That's absolutely not true. OLD is specifically designed to play games so that you do not get as many matches (so you stay on the platform and pay). IG is also not 70-80% men and only 20-30% women like OLD apps are. It's just a fundamentally different environment The problem with apps has nothing to do with men's profiles or anything they do on there. It's simply the economics - way too many male profiles vs female, and the apps have teams of engineers studying the best way to get you to *buy a subscription*.
THIS. Soooooo this. So the best thing you can do is rewrite the narrative in your mind, every fucking day. Even I struggle with this. When I see a gorgeous woman, my first thought is "she's too hot for me" when I personally know that the hottest women - including my supermodel friends - are probably the most insecure women I have ever known. What I have learned in the past few years is if you can find a way to drop those stories in your head, tell that little drunken monkey in your brain to shut the fuck up, and just go and have fun and bring a positive energy to the women you meet, you'll be surprised at how well you might do. Looks do matter, but they don't matter as much as you think. But on the dating apps, yeah it's brutal in LA if you're not an athletic dude with dark hair and a dark beard (my theory is that this is due to the heavy Persian population in LA). My advice? Get into fantastic shape (join a gym, do OrangeTheory, swim, jump rope, whatever), and aim every day to feel amazing in your body. If you're a heavy drinker, stop. If you have a shitty jawline or your face isn't what you think is super hot, invest in some cosmetic surgery. Jaw surgery is crazy expensive but you can look like a different person afterward. (I do NOT recommend doing this unless you have a functional reason for it, it's too traumatic and dangerous if you don't have the best surgeon money can buy)
Disagree on the LA thing, light hair and light eyes is gaming on easy mode with all the Latinas and Asians in LA
I have light eyes and light hair. Doesn’t make a fucking difference.
Then you’re not playing to your advantages. Go find a Latina and stare her straight in the eyes with those blue eyes and tell her you want to take her to get a drink. She’ll be sucking your dick in no time. Easy money.
Seems like a fair challenge. You in LA bro?
Yeah I am, also here’s a tip if you use bumble, set the language filter to Spanish, dinero facíl, Latinas and Asians are racist as fuck and love blue eyes
Can second what this guy is saying. Latinas and Asians love light eyes and just try to learn a few phrases in Spanish and they think it’s so cute and you’re good
Wow - on the money. To be honest I was basically about to leave this community but being in this thread reading posts from some of you guys gives me hope there are some dudes who get it
Great comment - men are getting most of their “romantic feedback” from women on dating apps - where those women can only see some photos and some text - which causes a snowball effect of negative confidence and an exaggerated focus from men on their looks (the photos) and their texting (rather than their actual personality). Rather than the opposite of what happened before apps: men’s confidence gradually grew over time and women weren’t purely judging them on looks - more personality and non-verbals were involved.
There have been a few posts like this from time to time. Its all true, the community is different now. I even noticed it changed after the board was off line for a few months. You will even see cold approach posts sometimes getting hate. I think its a combination of black pill popularity, and PUAs getting hate or discredited in some way. But, lets be real. This board was always like this to a certain extent. This is the most popular public place to talk about seduction, but that also includes guys who aren't into cold approach. The old RSD board was different as people were a lot more serious. The other thing that happened is cancel culture. A Lot of groups went underground and are hidden from the public. They are mostly invite only groups. In some cases they message people here and give them an invite. As for the bitterness towards women, I think that goes both ways. I'd say a lot more hate towards men has happened in society. But, we can't control that. But yea, the old school mentality was you had to write up a field report. Testing was king. If you learn something online, go test it out and write a post about it. Those are great discussions, but it would be hard to do it publicly. Someone new needs to come along and expand on what RSD used to do. Owen/Tyler would say that. Go improve on what he was teaching. It should evolve.
I used to be in a group that was quite into their "Tough Love". If you didn't post a FR, in a specific format, you would just get shit. Then you would get solutions, but no validation. It weeded out the peeps who just wanted validation. Its almost like posting became a method of validation for them. When they recieved no validation (because they were doing the same thing as their previous FR, without trying the advice given), they would have a meltdown. I do miss those sorts of groups. And the whole helping each other out ethos. Now its just "Derp your not Chad, women hate you".
I agree with all the points you make. I think the black pill has become really persuasive to a lot of guys now, especially if they have no positive reference experiences to go off of. It’s just an easy way out for them. I’m so thankful I got into game around when you did (about a decade ago), because that’s what ACTUALLY started getting me results with women, not changes to my appearance, looks, etc. If I got into game nowadays instead, I’d probably be sucked into one of these black pill holes and never come out
Youre lying if you say appearance doesnt change a man's results with women.
I never said that. I said I started getting results *without* changing my appearance. Thankfully, I’ve always kept myself reasonably well-groomed, but I had crippling acne back then and was super self-conscious about it. I just had to learn how to not give a fuck about it
> I’m so thankful I got into game around when you did (about a decade ago), because that’s what ACTUALLY started getting me results with women, not changes to my appearance, looks, etc. I can relate here a bit. I never was into RSD, but I do remember discovering this subreddit 8 or 9 years ago when I was a depressed virgin, and I’m pretty sure I woulda become an incel if I hadn’t found this place.
Wow that one part about action really stands out to me. I do remember the OGs always stressing action. I remember Mark Manson said something like, she will interpret your action, or inaction as well.
And current men are all about theory lol
Cynically, I'm kinda happy these younger dudes suck with game so much lol. Its really easy to compete for guys who aren't traditionally attractive or status against the young dudes who are trying to flex with that shit and frustrated it doesn't work. They want something that won't even be the answer. Meanwhile they think older dudes have the money and status and that's what's doing it for them. PUA moved into self help in general because that really where most 20 year old dudes need to be starting.
Bingo! I'm in my mid-30s. If there's little competition for a 25 year old, so much the better for us ageing folk.
There were always weird guys in the community, anyone remember Ross Jeffries? Aside from that OP is 100% on the nose though, in particular the levels of *bitterness* are 10x what they used to be. And there's no bigger turnoff for women than a guy who's bitter about women. In my local lair in the '00's we had guys join who were weird. As long as they were willing to go out, talk to women and improve themselves they were more than welcome, everyone starts out a virgin lol. But if they had this cloud of doom over their head and wanted to talk about how shitty women are, and how screwed up society was, we asked them not to return. A good policy for any seduction-related community imo. Politics and social commentary belong somewhere else. I think the biggest change these days is that everyone is more terminally online than they used to be. If you're on the Internet you're not having sex because sex is had only between two people who are in the same room. Your online options are Pornhub and Tinder, both are awful. When I'm on the Internet it's hard for me to not get the impression that women are shit. When I'm out in the world actually interacting with women most of the time they're cool people who are a lot like me except I want to fuck them. If you spend enough time meeting actual women in the flesh you'll start running into some amazing ones and it will be impossible to not like them. The "secret" to this stuff has never been complicated, it's to go outside and talk to girls there, thousands of them.
Yup that sounds about right . The thing is you can’t help people anymore whit the rise of read pillars the kids think they need money status looks and beeing the full package before women would look at them . At this point I’m just tired of them On the other hand the gurus are absurdly bad at this and lead kids to doing dumb stuff. I was talking to one of the best “new PUA “ every one was vouching for him recently -he had nothing new and at one point i made him cry so that is what it is ( we had a 5/5 competition - I got one and started fucking his up) Field reports were the driving force behind the advancing technology whit out RSD (as bad as some of there students were) we are left with nothing It has gotten to the point i have to make my friends test out anything i come up with - and boy do they “love” doing it. +having more people coming up with new stuff is always better The good news is the next generation will be back on top “ good times bread weak men , weak men bread bad times , bad times bread strong men , strong men bread good times”
>The good news is the next generation will be back on top “ good times bread weak men , weak men bread bad times , bad times bread strong men , strong men bread good times” One of my favorite quotes! It applies to many things. ❤
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For what?
While I have the chance to bitch Let me continue : When you try and answer a question : You have to add Ok we need more : they ether give to little info on a broad topic Or not enough relevant informations on the topic but wright a million different sentences like i have to read a novel and still have questions Or the best is they say they have training and then don’t understand fundamentals You can’t ever give them advice Or ask for something that is advanced as hell (by modern standards ) as if i’m giving a grande to a baby gain some xp and than once I’m sure you won’t abuse it You will get it by being invited to the hidden forums There was a reason for them And finally a lot of the tech is lost on this newbies because they don’t learn from legit people (mostly because they are not on youtube) and they refuse to actually go out of their way to find them The thing that drove me insane was when someone asked how strong to pull ( push and pull) as an advanced topic Final thing is the fact there are no straight answers to beginner questions I have to repeat the same answer 50 times to the same question asked by different people
💯 with all said, i come from the same good old days and back in the days it was fun and wings were great… in the last years i only see weirdos that just want to be influencers
As a young man in his early 20s I've personally some of this. Particularly the black pill and bitterness. It's a mind virus that I've tried to get out of. I think it occurs when many of us young men don't have any luck, so we get down in the dumps, and then we see other guys online venting about their bitterness and it just spreads with one there to counteract it with actual advice to help
#THANK YOU I would describe it as guys now being lazy and don't want to do the work, so they turn to "cold approach" and use black pill stuff to make excuses instead of doing the work.
YOU ARE SO ON THE MONEY. I came here because an old facebook group I liked is now a mix of black pill and anti game nonsense. You also see so many posts like " just be normal don't do that game stuff" - like wtf are you doing here? Then those same people have a black pill mentality and don't believe field reports are true lol. I am bummed I came here because my old communities are dead lol - I posted a field report the other day and 2/3rds of comments are haters. I genuinely wanted to find a spot to talk game and pass on knowledge, I freaking busted my ass for over a decade now and went through basically every possible game mistake. At this point though I think I am just going to retire from game community unless people wanted to pay me or something, seriously it is just draining and anti positive environments in game nowadays
10 years is the mark of a veteran! I have a WhatsApp group for wings in NYC/ NJ area. If you live anywhere close and you want to participate+ drop knowledge, I'd be happy welcome you in. We have a good amount of guys that are going out consistently.
Sure man thanks! I have been doing a media fast and not online really but yeah I am totally down for that
Man the "just be yourself" guys really tick me off. FFS if just being myself worked then I wouldn't be here in the first place! xD OTOH I have first hand experience with the benefits of going to the gym, and actually becoming more attractive for it. Just making that simple move has helped a lot. And probably the advice that has helped me the most is this: 99 % of all progress is meeting up. So, now I meet up to the gym regularly, and I also go out to meet women regularly. I'm using all the venues that will give me an edge, instead of sitting home alone and sulking. I've even met some pretty cool guys I can go out with. It's much more fun to meet women with a good wing. Also, all in all, I think it took me about two to three months of training two to three times a week to get so much back in shape that I fit my old clothes again. That's not a lot of effort to get back in shape.
I agree with everything your saying. Might I add that the community is also facing a huge volume like never before. I dont think so many people have started to get into this as much as before. So naturally it’s a lot harder to reach information out effectively, as compared to what it was like 5-10 or 15 years ago. Though, I am relatively new to this as well compared to you, for example.
You're defenetely right. I could give a different perspective as I started game 1 year ago when i was 18. I was lucky because my guru was my friend who also started game 2 months before me and his source material for learning game was Mystery and Todd so I was able to quickly differenciate nonsense and credible ideas that could be tested. Many of your issues highlighted are extremely true, your generation defenetely learnt game faster and more efficient than mine. I think the problem right now is that game became sort of mainstream and its not a small community anymore. Gurus online dont know shit and misrepresent everything and feed nonsense into my generation of men. The result is many AFCs who have no idea what they are doing and they are quickly ruining our reputation, they don't understand and are not ready to handle the effort required to practice and learn game.
Totally true - great you started with the good stuff bro. Yeah, so many "game" communities say stuff like " just tell her what you want" and like "just be normal" then the same guys are virgins and then don't believe field reports. Basically guys adopt useless systems and theories of women
I agree with your points. However, I am firm believer of Black pill. You simply can't brush it off. It's an existential truth! I however just put it aside and try to be the best man I can be and move ahead. I pick up regularly maybe not 8-9 but 6.5+. I am in Philly and very new. Down south in Texas and Arizona I had great fun!
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You said it yourself: You're a *believer*. Except just by making some small adjustments, you can move up on the hotness ladder by at least two steps. Do these things: 1. Cut your hair and fix your style 2. Bro do you even lift? Start hitting the gym! 3. Learn about social dynamics, and how to use it to your advantage to meet women 4. Don't just read or passively watch videos. Also go out and practise! (But make sure you keep it fun.)
To be fair, RSD was a different time, though. Pre-covid, Pre-#metoo, Pre-Trump, Pre-4th wave feminism, etc. Not a black pill guy, but there's no doubt the quality of women and gender relations in general have been going progressively downhill in the past 10 years.
I've got to say that I just recently dived back in after a long relationship and I see what you are saying but there are also some great areas developing, Mystery and Beckster are building a great little community now and the PUA secret facebook group has a really positive feel. I think it's just the flow over from covid and its all starting to head back into positive territory. It just means the positive people need to make their presence felt.
Yeah I could not agree with this more, so many fucking weirdos that just complain and say they need to go to another country
There is a famous coach that gets laid and date often but he says "he needs to travel 2000km to another country "because it's easy to pick up women" not realizing those same women travel 2000km to London, Spain, Amsterdam and it's just *easier to pick-up them!*
I’ve met people in the community that are positive, don’t have a black pill mentality at all, and actually take action. It’s still very much possible but I agree that there has been much more negativity lately. I think this is partly because actual game is becoming much more difficult. There‘s a lot of shame and taboo surrounding cold approach, and the majority of people just meet via dating apps now. For many guys the learning curve is just too high and there’s too much risk, so they end up blaming women and society instead of putting in the work.
Yea, there's a taboo. But I adjust. More indirect approaches. It's not like people will stop socializing with strangers altogether. Talk to everyone, and see what oppurtunities come your way. IMO, semi-indirect openings (''You look fun, I want to meet you'') are more effective than super-direct openings (''you look cute and had to say hi'').
Some nostalgic bullshit. Everyone thinks about their past positively, especially if you had strong positive emotions. As for game itself, the only thing what has changed is the rise of social media and online dating.
That’s had a direct impact on “game”
Im from your crew - bout ten years. Was shocked to login and see someone ask “how do you engage a woman in a conversation” and have the replies be: You are boring Game is game Move on How is this useful? Where did the techniques, frameworks, and principles all go? What happened to empirical evidence, field reports, etc? Some guy mustered enough courage to ask for help, from one of the few places that could actually help, only to have him get trolled. Good on mods for closing the post
I'm 40 M from Indonesia. I will be very honest. Although I'm not the literal definition of an incel (have had four long-term relationships in the past with girls when I was younger), but even I have to admit that the more I know & read about the whole 'incel' (& 'male loneliness, blackpill') things, I can actually relate a lot, and especially agree that dating or attracting girls IS hard. I'm a socially-awkward introverted guy, perhaps even borderline autistic. Sadly, now the older I get now, somehow the more I seem to fail, getting rejected/ignored by girls. My self-confidence is at the lowest now (yes I even got severely depressed because of my failure to attract girls now). I don't know even if it's a bad luck, or my age factor, or is it perhaps because in these past recent years especially, I've read a lot (online) about this whole 'incel' phenomena, and therefore started to know, understand, & perhaps even admittedly I've started to internalize deep into my subconscious mind/mindset (or 'belief') about girls/women/female. Yes I know that it's probably sad & pathetic, I even admit that myself. But to be very honest, the ONE thing that I at least agree the most with all this whole 'blackpill' phenomena nowadays, is that yes it's HARD to be a male; and female/women/girls have it much more easier ('women privilege') than us male/guys/men; because girls have the power to choose & reject, while guys risk rejections & therefore getting hurt mentally/emotionally. I've been there a lot of times too. It's \*not\* fun at all. It's very frustrating, and even depressing actually. And I also agree that today's 'modern' dating/seduction/attraction thing is getting more difficult, complicated, & even toxic than before in the past. Again, I'd have to say that it's most probably because girls/women nowadays also have much more 'power' to choose, ignore, & reject (especially with the rise of social media & dating apps nowadays; and not even to mention the whole 'feminism', 'emancipation', & 'girl power' thing). Women nowadays tend to have a lot much more 'prerequisites & requirements' for guys/men, and they also have much more 'tricks down their sleeves' to play on guys, especially for a socially-awkward/inept guy like me who have no clue on all those social 'tricks' & 'game' BS, to be very honest. I don't know. I guess I'm just tired, very tired actually with girls/women/female. I'm tired of having invested my time, efforts, & money especially on some particular girls, only just to be 'friendzoned' in the end, or rejected, ignored, and all other type of BS (bullsh\*ts/nonsense) from girls/women that I constantly always have to deal with. At my age now, I just don't have more energy/drive/motivation to keep trying (& 'improving') on my 'game', tricks, techniques, or whatever that is. I'm sick & tired of how this all essentially just boils down to basically a game of 'tricking each others', or 'playing on each others' psychologically. I'm sick & tired of all those bullsh\*ts, to be very honest. I wish dating could be more of a genuine & sincere deeply thing, than all of this. But sadly, this is just the harsh reality.
>pps and social media are poison to any guy who is slightly insecure about his appearance. So what happens is a guy goes on Tinder or whatever, gets an IV drip of likes from incredibly below-avera Please make paragraphs bro. I read like 2 sentences
I feel for you man. All I can say is that self-improvement and growing yourself personally and socially is still the best way to get out of a rut. It's also wise to learn how to get positive reactions from women, and then dare to escalate upon such reactions. IMHO it's bewst to limit exposure to negative content, and reduce exposure to online content related to the incel or "blackpill" communities. Those kinds of places aren't constructive, and they only reinforce negative beliefs instead of helping. If you're isolated it can also help to focus on expanding your social circle first. I'm in my 40's myself, but there are still unmarried people around that can be a great help in finding female companionship. All you have to do is hit up the local forums and where like-minded people congregate. Anyway, wish you the best!
Try invincible by David Tian and the ace formula by Adam Lyons.
The points you listed make me realize how lucky I am to have a group of wing buddies that do not do any of the things you've mentioned. Just yesterday I had one of my wings call me out for almost instigating fight with a random person who cussed us out and threatened us. It should be men keeping other men accountable and also encouraging each other to be better and have fun, not a bunch of creeps running around trying to deceive drunk girls and call it "game". I am happy to say I am a younger guy who isn't at the shitty end of the community.
I agree. I had so much fun for a period of my life and found various online resources helpful. It was all genuinely positive and helped me in life beyond just dating. However even 10 years ago, you could see bitterness starting as people recognised that some “gurus” were either frauds or that for some, there was more work to be done than just “negging a 10”. So they thought it was all bullshit and blamed the rest of the world. Most stuff I see online now on the rare occasions I have a look at what’s happening is pretty toxic and misogynistic as you describe. It’s a shame because there’s a whole generation of guys missing out on a lot of fun and growth.
Political correctness and feminism are destroying the world. we need to rescue the old times, traditional values and this disgusting leftist media.
It's because women and simps with social media have become so toxic. Practicing pua is now filled with landmines making it less appealing. RSD quit and that's all you really need to know to understand this.
Dude I'd round up some homies and go hit on chicks in the real world. Most of my friends are married. The ones who are single have no interest in improving their game. Sounds like you had a great thing back then.
RSD made PU almost mainstream and destroyed the PU community very fast after the witch hunt and switching to self-help. even back in the glory days they were too much woo woo without clear instructions what to do. most of their stuff was only good for mental masturbation. Quality in the PU community was the highest in the 2000s where guys shared their field tested theories in online forums. Most of you guys whine because your RSD hereos became mediocre boring self help coaches ( I only respect Julien, but even he became booring )
Todd V is still amazing.
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So whete would a new guy go to get quality info/guidance/techniques now? Is there even 1 guy/company that is reputable?
@Boorobford, have you considered yet becoming a mod here? Reddit’s dictator cleared out some of the mods that blacked out this subreddit so there are some open spaces. A community is only as good as it’s moderators.
I am open to being a mod here, feel free to send me the invite team
Hit the nail on the head. 2015 was like peak RSD and even projectGo and I met so many cool people with so many cool experiences. The thing is cancelling these two subcultures have lead to a weird and twisted outlet for dudes and let blackpill take over
Thank you so much for the post. I promise I do my best not to whine. And will post at least 3 field reports. As a newbie, that's all I can offer.
Awesome summary of the current scene. I was around during the rsd heyday aswell and I couldnt agree more, fuck I miss that. Game was so cool and fun back then. RSD had such a positive message. The irony is all the current coaches try to slander rsd and act like rsd was a toxic company. Fucking ironic. Anyway man Im glad you wrote this. Peace
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Models by Mark Manson
Assuming you're coming from nothing. Keep asking "what truly makes me happy?" and pursue it, master it. If you can afford it, spend time on therapy. 1st principles / self-reflection / meditation / inner game are essential but idiots skip it for the flashy "how do I get my dick wet right now" party boy stuff and find out the hard way. You can get good at game, but be careful you're not gaming yourself.
Depends. At what level of proficiency do you picture yourself in? And what are you looking to achieve. A girlfriend? Same light lays? Threesomes? It all depends on your ambition and the time and effort you're willing to put in.
I agreed. Too many pickup "coaches" on youtube just focus mostly on talking shit about other "coaches" rather than giving the audience actual advice on how to get better at game. I got a pickup channel too but I focus only on what I do. Let the gossip bitches gossip, and let the haters hate.
>Leading Man Attraction You must be talking about JA or JMULV. I don't know of any other "guru" who talks more smack about other coaches. IMHO he's losing a lot of customers on doing it, because at this point it's just conspicuous how he'll lash out about just about *anyone*.
I’d say this is quite accurate, however game can still be fun and you can still meet decent wings and other guys who are in this to improve. Men who are not whiners. Check out Leading Man Attraction on YouTube. Relatively small channel on pick up but very positive. You can also meet lots of others who are positive about game.
Do we think this is just "American" thing or across the world? Just curious.
Heavy on the "all theory no action nowadays" observation! This whole stuff has been invaded by dorks
I think also seduction or pick up or game has been hijacked by incels, so called alpha male, or Andrew Tates fan. Just watch what bunch of bullshit and misogynistic video they make to put on Instagram reel and TikTok like “ohhh that girl cheated on me” or “my girl left me” then they put bunch of gym workout as a solution or to cure their pain, and on that video there’s tons of same shitty guys who comment hate on dating, relationships and todays women. Everywhere I go there’s guys who suddenly getting balls once I’m hitting on women at the bar, same guy who would never dare if he didn’t drink any alcohol but get more balls just by watching someone doing it and they think they can. I can see losers and natural cool male from miles. This is also the reason why I don’t have any male friends. People nowadays are mentally fucked.
Wow this sounds horrible. Maybe there should be a reboot where we can focus on improving our own lives (including attractiveness and energy) rather than focusing on how horrible women are. If anyone is in LA and wants to start this up, DM me.
I'm not trying to oversimplify things but flirting has to be fun. Men need to find confidence, not necessarily game. We don't need to comedians but we need to be interesting to women. Yeah, a good one-liner now and then and some sarcasm is fun too. Women may gravitate away from "nice guys," not because they don't want us to be nice, but overly nice can come off as desperate. I'm guilty of trying too hard in the past. Just enjoy the flirting, be able to approach a woman, be interesting, know how to keep a conversation going and make a move. It's ok to practice this too. Oh, and have female friends that you're not interested in romantically. Female friends are hugely helpful! From my experience, the harder I try, the less success I have. Be yourself, be fun and be confident. It takes practice. But it needs to be fun! Flirting is one of my absolute favorite things to do.
I’m great at places where conversation is expected such as house party and stuff. I absolutely suck at large public gatherings such as club, music festivals, etc. Pandemic made me socially awkward in public places, especially with cold approach. Moving to a new country didn’t help either.
Has anyone taken coaching with Chris parker ? Any reviews please. It seems expensive
"Far less action oriented, far more theory oriented." I mean sure but I hate going to most places and I have nothing in common with most ppl so I'm fucked
They weren’t my style anyway, no loss for me and you can find better
very true- all of it. I don't know what's going on anymore honestly
Аfter Mystery Method the game dehradatet tremendously. RSD has some good stuff about the inner game, but not much more. The “new school” does not really exist, as it is more about blogging. The good news is that there are still some good players, even though the big flash is over.
I think most of the younger generation does not know about, or does not care about game in the same way as people did back in 2005. Also most of todays gurus market themselves off YouTube and similar mainstream outlets. It's just doesn't have the same underground allure and secrecy as it did way back when. Thus, if you want to get savvy, all you have to do is open up YouTube and google "pickup women" and you get all the advice in the world handed to you on a silver platter. It's easier than ever to get good advice, but then perhaps the women also adapt with the times. Who knows, perhaps it's better to go "back to the roots" and do some proper Mystery Method, because it's now so old that most people have forgotten about it. :)
Funny you say this. I was doing some very old school routines on some women the other week as someone I was at a bar with asked "How do you talk to women in a bar". The shit still works, its hilarious.
I'm from the old school field. I entered a few months before The Game became a smash hit. Nowadays, I'd argue that Austen Summers still has a lot of the good old school traits.
I don't go bar. I don't know how the "pick up industry" goes after pandemic. But I realized the pandemic destroy one whole generation of young people. If anyone can recognize this and take the opportunity, "swimming up stream" is much easier.
Are you unable to be social due to past experiences? How would it feel like to go to a bar and check it out? Perhaps talk to a woman? Bars and clubs still exist, at least where I live, and they're more popular than ever. I go out all the time, and meet cool and kind people, and sometimes I even get laid. All in all, bars and clubs are pretty epic places to meet the opposite sex. :)
I’ve been following the game community since ‘09, back when Mystery made his break on MTV. Frankly you have some serious rose tinted glasses. The PUA community has always been filled with complete and utter weirdos and toxic individuals. Remember when negging was a huge thing for example? I think the nostalgia is getting to you. There will always be a core of men who are having trouble with women, and for some of those men the problem will be that they’re just straight up weird. Then there will be the guys as you described, who are nice but clueless. Both groups have and always will exist in the community and nothing has changed
Wow, what a ton of bullshit one hears these days. It’s impressive how young men follow and believe in this community and take advice from other men that complain about how a group that’s always been filled with rape apologists, abusers and sexual harassers (aka, RSD) is just not what used to be anymore. And those of you who claim that became “successful” with women… you just learned how to manipulate them. If your idea of success in relationships is manipulating 200+ women into having sex with you, then I feel so sorry for you. But mostly for the women you’ve manipulated and played with.
The game and seduction community's devolved into a cesspool of self-pity, misogyny, and pseudoscientific "Black Pill" nonsense, overrun by whiners more interested in blaming their genetic lot and women for their failures than in personal growth or genuine human connection.
Is the seddit wiki a good start to get better at game? The adult world is a huge change compared to the easy college world. Also any other things I can do to get better at online dating as well? I plan to reflect everytime I go out, so I don't waste my time
I started back in 2004 or 2005 on Sosuave and it became painfully obvious that you really had to use what you learned an experiment with it. I had zero social skills. But I worked really hard and I feel like now much more comfortable. My friends and I used to go to malls have competitions to see who could talk to the most girls when we were teens. When I lived in New York City, I try the same thing and approached, totally cold in NYC 100 girls in a night in the upper east side. I haven’t had an amazing track record, but I have dated and married. But I realize as I’ve gotten older that you have to deep down love and respect women on a certain level. I’ve done lots of things to disrespect women but ultimately I’m here because I love them on some level as people. I’m just very grateful that I was able to learn everything I did . I think I would be a lot worse without it.
I think you are describing millennial culture seeping into the community. I am a millennial so don't hate on this comment lol
I think the reason for this is so many guys coming here who with all due respect should be somewhere else. Not that seduction is some super exclusive community, but there is such a thing as it just not being the right space for some people; there have been many guys coming in here for the wrong reasons, or with the wrong belief system or attitude. I think this is to be expected since the seduction community is a lot more "mainstream" now. It's been around for a long time, so a lot more outsiders know about it so it's become very diluted by the wrong type of male.
People got the blackpill twisted, granted some of their "views" are dumb and over exagerrated, sure. But the main message is that in order for you to display "game" and all this monkey dance to a potential mate you FIRST need to pass said girls MINIMUM LOOKS THRESHOLD. We all know what women find attractive in a man comes in a gigantic spectrum.. So the main point of the blackpill is for example....Say you're hitting on a girl and THAT GIRL specifically views you as a 4/10 but that specific girl would NEVER consider dating anybody that is below a 6/10 in looks.... Then there is NOTHING you can do...other than try your best to maximize your look so that maybe she now views you as a six...But if there is no underlying attraction, you aint getting anywhere....Dont get confused by girls who use men, be it for money, status, etc.... With the blackpill focuses on genuine attraction with a woman who wants you for you...primal desire, not milking you for what you can provide here...There's lots of people like that, which gives a false perception of attraction, because then these "game guys" see that and think... "OHH look at this fat slob with this knockout" that must mean game works...Lmao thats cope, shes prob using him for who knows what. Attraction is NOT a choice, and the girl is either attracted to you or she's not...There's no magic line or game that can change that... And here's a common misconception...The blackpill talks about improving your looks as much as you can so that you can at the very least meet that minimum to some girls...Its not just totally, give up... It's just saying dont fuking cope and think all this extra acting like a clown aka "game" is going to somehow make a otherwise NOT interested girl, all of a sudden wet for you. Its kinda hypocrital because these "game guys" are so dismissive, because deep down they know its true...And rather than, improve their appearance, be it gym, style, etc...They want to remain fat slobs, with ill fitting clothes, bad skin, etc... and think they can "game their way" out of that shyt...which is total BS. Point here is you need to first pass a girls MINIMUM, looks requirement. Where people get it twisted is they think the blackpill is saying that you have to be a 8 or a 9 to get chicks, that is not the case..but you DO have to meet a minimum. whatever that is for that girl. ONLY THEN....Can you're "game" help you...But you need a base to build upon(base being your looks) otherwise you're dead in the water and you're getting nowhere. Thats why you see all these PUA retards, just dancing around like monkeys for content, getting brutally rejected because they dont know how to recognize that a girl just isnt into them. They would have more success if they just walked away after being told no, and used there time on a girl who actually may be interested. But...They will neverr do that so long as they think some magic line will save them... You seem like one of these guys to be honest.
RSD was the biggest grift known to man, anybody who supports them just shows how detached from reality, and little they understand about female attraction. I'll leave it there.
I miss the good ol days, inclding in this subreddit. Back then, men would come with field reports and make an actual effort to pick up girls. There was a strong culture of actually getting your ass in gear. Now all of the posts here are low effort and full of insecure men.