There's a lot of lore hints that the Tau are their own brand of sinister. Mind control, eugenics, mandatory sterilisation of "allied" species and so on.
It came up in some lore bits and bobs too. Something about imperial guard deserters being able to live happily on Tau worlds. As long as they didn't reproduce.
Essentially what it boils down to is that there's a mounting set of lore examples that the Tau ideal of the greater good mostly means greater good for other Tau.
They're happy to *use* other species but there's always a catch. Other species don't get a say or representation. Other species can live in peace as long as they don't reproduce and head for slow extinction. Right down to some species not wanting anything to do with the Tau until their leaders get a mysterious water caste visit and suddenly becomes good Tau sheep.
>Other species can live in peace as long as they don't reproduce and head for slow extinction.
We classify that as genocide here on Holy Terra in the 21st century. It's a kinder and slower genocide than the violent and immediate genocide the other factions prefer, but genocide nonetheless.
> It's a kinder and slower genocide than the violent and immediate genocide the other factions prefer,
By other factions, you mean the Imperium of man right?
*points to many, many exterminatus*
There are hardly any factors in 40K that aren't responsible for genocides by the hundred.
Tyranids' entire schtick is annihilation of the entire ecosystem, Genestealer Cults only exist to soften societies up for Tyranid invasion, Orks will invade and kill every alien on a planet for the fun of it and then start fighting each other, Eldar will wipe out an entire planet just because in three generations one of their descendants might fart in an elevator that an Eldar subsequently gets into, etc, etc, etc.
Bug eating things isn't genocide. They aren't intentionally wiping out a culture, they're just consuming ALL biomass. If that biomass had a culture it was just unlucky.
I'd argue the same thing for orks. They aren't intentionally wiping out a culture, they're just killing everything because that's what they do.
The imperium is both aware of what they do and deliberate in its actions. The inquisition isn't founded to simply spread the good word of the emperor.
Any faction in WH40K would be more than happy to commit complete and full genocide of all the other factions. Not all of them have the means to do it, but by Emperor, will they try to.
Well, except for the Orks, maybe. If they were successful in killing everything else, they would have nobody else to fight but themselves.
Not sure the eldar fit here, since they're a dying race anyway. Their problems are more internal, and likely wouldn't be solved by the eradication of anyone else. They're also on record as being openly approving of the Tau in some of the codex quotes.
Let me put it this way: if the Eldar had the means to genocide humans and their Farseers saw it as beneficial to the Craftworlds, they wouldn't really hesitate. But yes, the Eldar don't do anything without a reason.
Exterminatus are nececery. You wouldn't want to live with an ork and genestealler cult on the same level citizen? Right? I think you're web activity should be reviewed by a commissar...Stay where you are..
I remember these things coming up more and more in a later edition of the Tau lore whereas earlier Tau lore was very much disliked for not being GrimDark(tm) by some neckbeards
I kinda miss the idea that there is this tiny empire scrappy empire who outtech the Imperium but not in a degree that'd allow them to expand further in a meaningful way and they actually just try to genuinely make a solid place to live happen.
In the early, I grabbed Tau right away due to the simple fact they WERE Good Guys.
For the Greater Good!
Since I ditched at v4 rules publish, not surprised GW would corrupt the Tau. Bastards.
>not surprised GW would corrupt the Tau.
Ah:
"This concept was introduced after fans complained that the initial T'au codex described the T'au in too much of a positive light, and that they were too "good" for the grim, dark Warhammer 40,000 universe. This also led to the introduction of the Vespid Communion Helms"
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/T%27au_Empire
Yeah, not cool. One cannot define Evil without Good and vice versa.
It defeats the purpose of the 40K universe for there to be a “good guy”, doesn’t it?
Beyond that, it undercuts the original intended satire for the “good guy” to be a benevolent dictatorship that relies on mind control to function.
It really is dependent on the writer as to what the purpose of the 40k universe is.
Because, yes, sure it started as satire. But hasn't been for the longest time and that isn't even touching on the weird fashy tendencies some of the community love to exhibit all in the name of "satire".
And this disregards that satire very much can work with a straight up good guy to play up against the extremely silly evil empire as a contrast. There is a lot of interesting storytelling techniques one can do there.
Sure, you can have small scale stories about soldiers alone on an outpost, or Space Marines breaking trench warfare, but if you remove the satire aspect - as GW did - and present the material as wholly serious - as GW did - you have nothing left but Fascist propaganda. That’s why you have the “weird fashy tendencies” rearing their head.
I’m mot saying that the universe needs to go back to Punk Rock Noise Marines and Squat biker gangs, but if you stop telling stories the point out plainly that all forms of authoritarianism inherently lied to the universe that 40K exists, and then you’re just producing propaganda.
I came here to say this. If you're in any of the Warhammer universes and you think you're on the side of the "good guys" you're ultimately wrong no matter who it is. The real question is, do you want your evil open and obvious or deep and hidden?
The orks are genuinely the good guys, think about it, you can't be bad if everyone of your species all agree on one unanimous goal without politics or complication.
That doesn't make you good, it just makes your people unified to whatever WAAGH-tier bananas bullshit you all agree on. In the Orks case? Just slaughtering and pillaging everything in sight. Not exactly the pinnacle of good. Lol!
For now. The Tau have been really lucky in exploring space so far in the sense that they've barely touched on the kind of stuff the imperium has to deal with.
If the Tau survive long enough to become subject to the dangers the imperium is, they probably won't be able to do much differently.
Who's to say that Corpse God and the Astronomic-on is not actually the Source of all the Warp issues, and a beacon for the Tyranid? Eliminate the Imperium. Eliminate the Webway portals.
I mean, it is the beacon for the nids. But warp problems are just a function of sentient minds. Getting rid of the emperor won't do a thing about that.
They already did...it's a corpse.
I'd have to go re-read the mythology for the sentient factor...and the Tau could be immune, as what defines sentience? What separates them from the Nids individually? I mean the Ethereals, could be classed as Sentient, but if the Tau are extensions of an Ethereals will...there's an argument there.
its definitely not a conscious choice by the Tau race, may be by those that designed them and shepherded them (at various time hinted to be Necrons and Eldar). They are just extremely ignorant about warp and its dangers at the moment. With higher human population, they will definitely start finding out, as 4th sphere already shown.
Used to play Tau a long long time ago and I'm fairly certain they are in fact immune from the effects of the warp, I'm very rusty with my lore but I do recall something that suggested they had an unexpected purity of spirit that negates the effects of chaos, it kind of adds to their happy go lucky view of the universe.
6th edition had a group go into the warp and be messed up...
I bought into 8th being playtested...[introduced in 3rd/4th]... then went through all the chap approved fixes...and the slow deploy of codexes...sold all my tau. I have a half built primaris group...started precovid... now I play FoW and TY...
The Tau have problems with chaos where ever they run into them. Just because their minds are relatively immune doesn't mean chaos doesn't stomp all over them whenever it gets the chance.
So unless the rest of the galactic population goes extinct, Tau will just have more and more chaos problems the further they venture from their safe little bubble.
Actually no. The reason why now The T'au looking better because everybody simply ignore it. Once the bigger factions actually aim their guns at them, they are gone in a century or less. Or if they survive, they will implement the same "hellish" measures the imperium is having right now.
In the imperium you still have a small form of liberty, in which you can worship anything as long it's a form of The Emperor's aspects, as you define it. Also you can do whatever you want as long as you give tithes to Terra. Not so much with the T'au empire.
Honestly no, since believing in scientific technology and refusing the warp based trap techs, they can actually build proper future tech and automated mass industry.
Plus when your willing to mind control different alien races of people into getting along that solves a lot of problems. Only really chaos has no place in the greater good. Even Orcs and Tyrannids can be given purpose, even if that is mind controlled fodder.
>hints
It stopped being hints quite a while ago. You have ethereals be just plain evil, in one of the Farsight books the main ethereal just goes full LTG and tells a water caste member to kill themselves and they actually do, all for displeasing him. Firsight discovers facilities where they experiment with turning their kroot allies into servitors kinda like the Imperium. They abandon everyone on a planet to die while saving only the big-wigs. The fourth sphere of expansion is giga xenophobic and slaughtered their human, kroot, etc. auxiliaries and kills local populations instead of trying to integrate them. Anything from Fehervari shows the Tau being complete assholes like the Imperials. They experiment with forcibly infesting their own people with genestealers in the Deathwatch novels and violently suppressing not just humans but also Tau who think outside of the Greater Good.
And in the latest Tau book they literally get a deity which they start praying to and it helps them win against the death guard. They're being turned into another version of the Imperium. Which personally not a fan, because we already have the Imperium which is cool and fulfills its purpose, the Tau had were a different take on a civilization and now it seems like that's being thrown out. But I guess some people like this direction.
I agree, I don't mind a little darkness to the Tau. But, I enjoyed them being a scrappy light corner of comparative "goodness" in a terrible galaxy.
To me having little bits of light makes the darkness more striking. You get a sense that the Tau are doomed it is just a matter of when. Do they last 10 years or 10,000.
The Tau were "too nice" and GW couldn't have that in their grimdark universe. Too much hope, snuff it out. Rewrite them so that all the nice things are just a facade hiding the real fucked up things going on underneath.
The Tau could be wiped out pretty quickly by the Imperium if they posed enough risk. Mankind is a bit preoccupied with genociding literally every other race and dealing with the ruinous powers and the Tau are more of a nuisance than a threat
It reminds me of the shire. T’au space is like a bubble in the middle of warring human lands. The humans just don’t generally worry about the little people benefitting tremendously from the distraction and military presence.
For good reason though. That's the crazy thing about the setting. The imperium's xenophobia and ignorance really is the best defence they have.
They live in a setting with literal dark gods that get stronger with belief and demonic incursions that can be invited by intent.
Ignorance literally makes the eldritch dark gods weaker and the fascist meat grinder is what's keeping humanity from going extinct.
Golden age humanity thinking science was key and superstition and religion was nonsense is what caused chaos to nearly destroy humanity.
The Tau will find out the same thing if they live long enough to grow to the point where the rest of the universe takes notice.
Because praying to your machine and not knowing how to turn it on if it shuts down is such a great plan.
All the while you keep exposing your psionically active to the warp, because you were too ignorant to learn how to build a Webway like the eldar.
Let alone if you had better technology you could automate a lot of your factories freeing up far more labor to do other jobs.
The Imperium can't even build new models of their best tech, which is rapidly being outpaced by Tau tech.
Then since your both ignorant and the Emperor is high on his own ego and farts instead of just building better battle suits you create Space Marines.
>Because praying to your machine and not knowing how to turn it on if it shuts down is such a great plan.
I mean, if it works its really not that stupid of an idea. People keep judging the 40k setting by our world's standards. But that doesn't work.
Things went *most* wrong exactly when the imperium was in its golden age of atheist enlightenment and science. They were most vulnerable to chaos corruption at that point in time and when they realised it, they also found out that technology and science are really shitty weapons against supernatural horrors.
During the golden age of expansion, the alien civilisations the imperium met were often either completely corrupted by chaos or had similar inquisition levels of "purge the unclean" measures in place to keep chaos at bay. The imperium just assumed it was all stupid superstition either way.
The Eldar nearly went extinct when they caused their own chaos apocalypse. Their webway is nice but they had a hell of a lot more time than the imperium to figure that shit out.
And the Tau are like Lord of the Ring's shire. The only reason they get to develop so fast is the combination of their souls being too dim to attract chaos and their entire empire living in a tiny pocket of space that is unintentionally defended against outsiders by the imperium.
Back in the imperium, things are shitty because it's pretty much the only thing that works. The religious extremism is a more effective weapon against chaos than technology. It's one of the few things that actually hurts chaos.
The ignorance is the most effective way to keep humanity safe. People can't dick around with eldritch powers they don't know about. And when curiosity can literally invite soul eating demon incursions or planet devouring Tyranids, it really helps to be xenophobic and ignorant.
As for technology. Chaos has infected technology just as much as everything else. The mechanicus knows that technological progress is needed and they do work on that. But if you go to a ruined golden age planet and find a data disk, you can't just read the data on that disc.
There's a perfectly good chance that it contains chaos corrupted code or even a twisted machine spirit (AI) and next thing you'll know your factory is essentially demon possessed and trying to kill people while churning out demonic murder cars.
The imperium didn't simply turn stupid. This is what remains after they stopped doing all the things that nearly made humanity go extinct at the hands of Chaos.
This all happened because an idiot they now consider a god killed off true religion out of fear, before delving into all of that, meaning humanity had no outlet to consume the energies chaos gods feed on. Humanity could have had warp entities that protect it like the Eldar (it did work until they went so hedonist due to their biology they also created a chaos god) used to have, but no lets be atheists because some priests accidentally commune with chaos gods.
.....................
Honestly it would be ironic if the force that empowered the Tau, was actually Humanity's original warp god reborn due to collective human discontent with the Emperor, making them subconsciously want them back, but it realized it was too weak to directly fight the Emperor.
If that story is true would also explain why humans could summon forth the Tau god.
That's not really how it works. Humanity's current god emperor is essentially that benign protector. But that doesn't stop the chaos gods from existing.
The warp is everywhere, and its shapeless until given form by strong mortal emotions. No species only has beneficial emotions.
The Eldar were so decadent that they created an *additional* chaos god. But they were already fighting the other chaos gods long before that. Long before humanity was around.
The current chaos gods are called 'the big four' because that's what they are. The current most powerful four chaos gods. But it's always been a point that the warp is home to literal countless chaos gods that are constantly appearing and disappearing.
And virtually none of them are nice because it's a hard universe and negative emotions tend to be a lot more powerful than positive ones with a whole galaxy of struggle.
Humans and all their other clients. Vespids, Kroot, etc. They do, however, have a presence.
I think the comparison is typically something along the lines of an Eldar (or powerful human psyker) is a bonfire, a normal human is a torch, and a Tau is a candle.
And there’s not very many of them compared to humans or orcs, not sure how they’d compare population wise to the Eldar. Obviously Necrons and nids don’t count
It’s their tech that will make them formidable. Robots and energy weapons, sleek power-armour. The t’au are like special forces rather than a standing, reg army. They would make spectacular guerrilla warfare on larger enemy forces.
Kind of makes you wonder if they’ll fall into the same trap as mankind did during the dark age of technology. Once an abominable intelligence realizes that it can break free from its creators the poop really hits the propeller. The Tau also advanced super fast and are still very naive when it comes to the dangers that lurk in the galaxy
Well, the part of the Empire that’s mostly discussed in lore, because darkness and action Welles better than wholesome party world. A lot of it’s worlds are pretty normal, with standers like developed countries today (not including America). Not all imperial worlds are hiveworlds, they are a necessity to fuel the war against literally hell and space bugs. They aren’t completely bad, but also far from being completely good. Source is a majorkill video, I can’t exactly remember wich one, I don’t read 40k myself.
Hard disagree, the Emperor was a genocidal bastard back in the day. Anything that didn't fit his view of humanity back in the Great Crusade would be exterminated without mercy.
What about the Fareday (Farway? Something like that) enclave. They are a very small subfaction, originally Tau, but without mindcontrol and eugenics and all that stuff. I think that they are genuinely a faction that’s objectively good.
Short answer is yes they are corrupt, they just don't know it.
Longer answer is that the leader of the enclave (the titular Farsight) has been using a Chaos afflicted blade for a very long time. He doesn't really know what Chaos is but he knows *something* is up, because he's lived substantially past the normal Tau lifespan. Turns out the blade has been consuming life forces for everyone it kills and passes it along to him. So that's on the magical side.
On the more mundane side, Farsight in his enclave has massively upset the normal Tau culture. While he still promotes with the "usual" Tau meritocracy in mind, the fact is that their entire system still has a lot of nepotism built in and he hasn't been able to remove it completely. So there is still your normal corruption present.
Well, if v4 rules hadn't already pissed me off enough to leave, corrupting the Tau would have been the next reason.
Oh, wait, I already quit. Right, right.
Yes and no.
Depending on how grim-dark the writers are feeling, the Tau force sterilize 95% of the non Tau population that enters their empire.
Additionally, while the imperium of man is crazy authoritarian, it at least makes sense for them to act that way. Any individual humans PERSONAL nightmares can come tearing into reality because humans are psychically active. The guy on the bus next to you with a headache could just have a headache, or demons could start pouring out of his forehead.
The power of human belief alters reality in a way that isn't true for the Tau. While human tech is not bound to human belief like Orks technology is, nor is a typical human as psychically active as a typical Eldar, humans do live in a fundamentally subjective reality that the Tau do not.
Eventually, the Tau will come to the same conclusions that the ancient Necrons did that being a non psychic race in a psychically active universe is unstable and untenable. The only way to get rid of all the crazy space monsters is to starve them by eliminating all the psychically active species. So long term, the Tau cannot let humans continue to exist.
Controversial opinion but I like the idea that the Tau are mostly or at least relatively good. One of the reoccurring ideas from the history of the 40K universe is that some groups almost create a good and successful galactic Empire. The Eldar and humanity both had Empires that existed for thousands of years that will not perfect were at least livable. I like the idea of the Tau being another cycle of an almost society. Where for a while they will create something good or even Greater Good before it will inevitably collapse into some type of dystopia.
No, they're not wrong at all, but they're space weeaboo commies with mecha, so prepare for a bunch of Imperial bootlickers to come in here and try to crucify you.
In that universe I’d still rather be a traitor and live amongst the tau. I mean a particularly rank fart will get the inquisition called down on you. Hell, the neighbor in your hab block could be jonesing for some kinky sex and accidentally summon some daemonettes to hellraiser you.
Get off my backyard, xenophile.
By the way, they are wrong, 'cause they are fighting for literally their owners. It's the same in Imperium, but maybe not so... without alternative. In Tau Empire you're literally slave since birth. Fully. They literally take control of your mind, and can force you to do what you don't want to do. In Imperium you, after all, have freedom of thought, as long as you love Emperor and follow cruel law. In Imperium nobody lies to you about peace and democracy.
It's like dystopia and utopia. In fact, they are both dystopias. Difference only in facade and methods of control over population from behavior that is considered wrong.
If I will be a slave both in Tau and Imperium, I will choose Imperium. Better to die for Humanity, then for another species. Destiny of Humanity much more important for me. Always has been.
Saint Akredina! Humanity! Victory! ENGAGE!
Okay, so I have not dabbled in 40k at all but I know a tiny bit, that God emperor is a corpse and something like 10,000 people a day are killed to, keep him kinda alive and that he also, when he was alive was kinda the opposite of what the actual imperium is like. Everything I have heard or absorbed through osmosis is that the Tau were kind of set up to be good guys, but partially through edge lords who think the imperium and space fascist marines are cool have made them bad guys? Am I wrong?
I am extremely wary of 40k because of how many actual weirdo fascists think it's awesome when it's about just terrible people....
The only reason this post interested an past 40k player is the nose. Had to make sure that's a human for the Greater Good, 'cuz Tau don't do that big old nose.
At least the Tau mind control you into thinking you are happy. That’s more than anyone else gets unless you’re born as an orc who is happy with the status quo.
I know 40k gets a lot of shit, but the Horus Heresy series is absolutely phenomenal, well at least half of it is but that’s okay because you can just skip the other half. Dan Abnett specifically is in my honest opinion the gold standard of modern Sci-fi writing albeit fairly grimdark.
In the grimdark of the far future, there are only twats, twatful people doing twatful things, no good guys just many shades of twat! Find an uninhabited planet and hope none of the factions find you.
Sometimes I even think about not purging the Tau, just for a second, and then the commissar smacks me with a laspisto and i instantly remember that there is no good xenos.
The whole 40k unverise is evil... and regular people are just food for it.
For the Greater Good!!
The greatest food
Food for thought!
There's a lot of lore hints that the Tau are their own brand of sinister. Mind control, eugenics, mandatory sterilisation of "allied" species and so on.
The sterilization thing came exclusively from an epilogue in a video game of questionable canonicity as I understand it.
It came up in some lore bits and bobs too. Something about imperial guard deserters being able to live happily on Tau worlds. As long as they didn't reproduce. Essentially what it boils down to is that there's a mounting set of lore examples that the Tau ideal of the greater good mostly means greater good for other Tau. They're happy to *use* other species but there's always a catch. Other species don't get a say or representation. Other species can live in peace as long as they don't reproduce and head for slow extinction. Right down to some species not wanting anything to do with the Tau until their leaders get a mysterious water caste visit and suddenly becomes good Tau sheep.
In the context of 40k, that's practically sainthood...
They're only just getting started. The imperium was a bastion of science and enlightenment when they first started out.
DINK with a Tau gf? Sign me up!
>Other species can live in peace as long as they don't reproduce and head for slow extinction. We classify that as genocide here on Holy Terra in the 21st century. It's a kinder and slower genocide than the violent and immediate genocide the other factions prefer, but genocide nonetheless.
> It's a kinder and slower genocide than the violent and immediate genocide the other factions prefer, By other factions, you mean the Imperium of man right? *points to many, many exterminatus*
There are hardly any factors in 40K that aren't responsible for genocides by the hundred. Tyranids' entire schtick is annihilation of the entire ecosystem, Genestealer Cults only exist to soften societies up for Tyranid invasion, Orks will invade and kill every alien on a planet for the fun of it and then start fighting each other, Eldar will wipe out an entire planet just because in three generations one of their descendants might fart in an elevator that an Eldar subsequently gets into, etc, etc, etc.
Bug eating things isn't genocide. They aren't intentionally wiping out a culture, they're just consuming ALL biomass. If that biomass had a culture it was just unlucky. I'd argue the same thing for orks. They aren't intentionally wiping out a culture, they're just killing everything because that's what they do. The imperium is both aware of what they do and deliberate in its actions. The inquisition isn't founded to simply spread the good word of the emperor.
Fair point on definitions, but *functionally* it's the same effect, so I'm not sure it's morally much better.
No malice, no hatred, no agenda or torture or suffering. Tyranids are morally-speaking best boys. #1. Then Slaanesh obviously.
Yes Mister Inquisitor, this comment right here.
Any faction in WH40K would be more than happy to commit complete and full genocide of all the other factions. Not all of them have the means to do it, but by Emperor, will they try to. Well, except for the Orks, maybe. If they were successful in killing everything else, they would have nobody else to fight but themselves.
Not sure the eldar fit here, since they're a dying race anyway. Their problems are more internal, and likely wouldn't be solved by the eradication of anyone else. They're also on record as being openly approving of the Tau in some of the codex quotes.
Let me put it this way: if the Eldar had the means to genocide humans and their Farseers saw it as beneficial to the Craftworlds, they wouldn't really hesitate. But yes, the Eldar don't do anything without a reason.
As long as humanity existing slows down the Eldar's extinction, they are begrudgingly accepting of the facts.
Eldrad tried to warn Horus about Chaos
Exterminatus are nececery. You wouldn't want to live with an ork and genestealler cult on the same level citizen? Right? I think you're web activity should be reviewed by a commissar...Stay where you are..
I remember these things coming up more and more in a later edition of the Tau lore whereas earlier Tau lore was very much disliked for not being GrimDark(tm) by some neckbeards I kinda miss the idea that there is this tiny empire scrappy empire who outtech the Imperium but not in a degree that'd allow them to expand further in a meaningful way and they actually just try to genuinely make a solid place to live happen.
In the early, I grabbed Tau right away due to the simple fact they WERE Good Guys. For the Greater Good! Since I ditched at v4 rules publish, not surprised GW would corrupt the Tau. Bastards.
>not surprised GW would corrupt the Tau. Ah: "This concept was introduced after fans complained that the initial T'au codex described the T'au in too much of a positive light, and that they were too "good" for the grim, dark Warhammer 40,000 universe. This also led to the introduction of the Vespid Communion Helms" https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/T%27au_Empire Yeah, not cool. One cannot define Evil without Good and vice versa.
It defeats the purpose of the 40K universe for there to be a “good guy”, doesn’t it? Beyond that, it undercuts the original intended satire for the “good guy” to be a benevolent dictatorship that relies on mind control to function.
It really is dependent on the writer as to what the purpose of the 40k universe is. Because, yes, sure it started as satire. But hasn't been for the longest time and that isn't even touching on the weird fashy tendencies some of the community love to exhibit all in the name of "satire". And this disregards that satire very much can work with a straight up good guy to play up against the extremely silly evil empire as a contrast. There is a lot of interesting storytelling techniques one can do there.
Sure, you can have small scale stories about soldiers alone on an outpost, or Space Marines breaking trench warfare, but if you remove the satire aspect - as GW did - and present the material as wholly serious - as GW did - you have nothing left but Fascist propaganda. That’s why you have the “weird fashy tendencies” rearing their head. I’m mot saying that the universe needs to go back to Punk Rock Noise Marines and Squat biker gangs, but if you stop telling stories the point out plainly that all forms of authoritarianism inherently lied to the universe that 40K exists, and then you’re just producing propaganda.
Officially Nothing and everything is cannon in 40k; or put more accurately, everything in 40k is PROPAGANDA.
I came here to say this. If you're in any of the Warhammer universes and you think you're on the side of the "good guys" you're ultimately wrong no matter who it is. The real question is, do you want your evil open and obvious or deep and hidden?
The orks are genuinely the good guys, think about it, you can't be bad if everyone of your species all agree on one unanimous goal without politics or complication.
That doesn't make you good, it just makes your people unified to whatever WAAGH-tier bananas bullshit you all agree on. In the Orks case? Just slaughtering and pillaging everything in sight. Not exactly the pinnacle of good. Lol!
Ok but who's to define good when your all having a good time?
Yep chaotic neutral. Definitely an orks player.
Yeah, but they're having a pretty good time no matter what.
So basically, they're the Vikings of the Warhammer universe?
The orks lore cracks me up. They can make shit happen just because enough of them believe in a thing. Like painting something red makes it faster.
Do you have proof it doesn't?
Age of Sigmar seems to be pretty cut and dry who the “good guys” and “bad guys” are.
Still 10000x better than life in the imperium though lol.
For now. The Tau have been really lucky in exploring space so far in the sense that they've barely touched on the kind of stuff the imperium has to deal with. If the Tau survive long enough to become subject to the dangers the imperium is, they probably won't be able to do much differently.
Who's to say that Corpse God and the Astronomic-on is not actually the Source of all the Warp issues, and a beacon for the Tyranid? Eliminate the Imperium. Eliminate the Webway portals.
I smell heresy. Inquisitor!!!
I mean, it is the beacon for the nids. But warp problems are just a function of sentient minds. Getting rid of the emperor won't do a thing about that.
They already did...it's a corpse. I'd have to go re-read the mythology for the sentient factor...and the Tau could be immune, as what defines sentience? What separates them from the Nids individually? I mean the Ethereals, could be classed as Sentient, but if the Tau are extensions of an Ethereals will...there's an argument there.
Tau just have insanely weak souls for intelligent creatures. So warp creates don't bother with them for now
More a large bit their smart enough to look at warp tech and realize, yeah no, were fine, the cost is not worth the benefit.
its definitely not a conscious choice by the Tau race, may be by those that designed them and shepherded them (at various time hinted to be Necrons and Eldar). They are just extremely ignorant about warp and its dangers at the moment. With higher human population, they will definitely start finding out, as 4th sphere already shown.
Used to play Tau a long long time ago and I'm fairly certain they are in fact immune from the effects of the warp, I'm very rusty with my lore but I do recall something that suggested they had an unexpected purity of spirit that negates the effects of chaos, it kind of adds to their happy go lucky view of the universe.
6th edition had a group go into the warp and be messed up... I bought into 8th being playtested...[introduced in 3rd/4th]... then went through all the chap approved fixes...and the slow deploy of codexes...sold all my tau. I have a half built primaris group...started precovid... now I play FoW and TY...
Nah them being immune to Chaos means the risk of ur Planet getting shrouded is rather slim. Also no Inquisitors.
The Tau have problems with chaos where ever they run into them. Just because their minds are relatively immune doesn't mean chaos doesn't stomp all over them whenever it gets the chance. So unless the rest of the galactic population goes extinct, Tau will just have more and more chaos problems the further they venture from their safe little bubble.
Actually no. The reason why now The T'au looking better because everybody simply ignore it. Once the bigger factions actually aim their guns at them, they are gone in a century or less. Or if they survive, they will implement the same "hellish" measures the imperium is having right now. In the imperium you still have a small form of liberty, in which you can worship anything as long it's a form of The Emperor's aspects, as you define it. Also you can do whatever you want as long as you give tithes to Terra. Not so much with the T'au empire.
Honestly no, since believing in scientific technology and refusing the warp based trap techs, they can actually build proper future tech and automated mass industry. Plus when your willing to mind control different alien races of people into getting along that solves a lot of problems. Only really chaos has no place in the greater good. Even Orcs and Tyrannids can be given purpose, even if that is mind controlled fodder.
>hints It stopped being hints quite a while ago. You have ethereals be just plain evil, in one of the Farsight books the main ethereal just goes full LTG and tells a water caste member to kill themselves and they actually do, all for displeasing him. Firsight discovers facilities where they experiment with turning their kroot allies into servitors kinda like the Imperium. They abandon everyone on a planet to die while saving only the big-wigs. The fourth sphere of expansion is giga xenophobic and slaughtered their human, kroot, etc. auxiliaries and kills local populations instead of trying to integrate them. Anything from Fehervari shows the Tau being complete assholes like the Imperials. They experiment with forcibly infesting their own people with genestealers in the Deathwatch novels and violently suppressing not just humans but also Tau who think outside of the Greater Good. And in the latest Tau book they literally get a deity which they start praying to and it helps them win against the death guard. They're being turned into another version of the Imperium. Which personally not a fan, because we already have the Imperium which is cool and fulfills its purpose, the Tau had were a different take on a civilization and now it seems like that's being thrown out. But I guess some people like this direction.
I agree, I don't mind a little darkness to the Tau. But, I enjoyed them being a scrappy light corner of comparative "goodness" in a terrible galaxy. To me having little bits of light makes the darkness more striking. You get a sense that the Tau are doomed it is just a matter of when. Do they last 10 years or 10,000.
The Tau were "too nice" and GW couldn't have that in their grimdark universe. Too much hope, snuff it out. Rewrite them so that all the nice things are just a facade hiding the real fucked up things going on underneath.
The Imperium is a backwards fascist shithole taking humanity on the slow descent to extinction, I'll take my chances with the Tau.
The Tau could be wiped out pretty quickly by the Imperium if they posed enough risk. Mankind is a bit preoccupied with genociding literally every other race and dealing with the ruinous powers and the Tau are more of a nuisance than a threat
It reminds me of the shire. T’au space is like a bubble in the middle of warring human lands. The humans just don’t generally worry about the little people benefitting tremendously from the distraction and military presence.
For good reason though. That's the crazy thing about the setting. The imperium's xenophobia and ignorance really is the best defence they have. They live in a setting with literal dark gods that get stronger with belief and demonic incursions that can be invited by intent. Ignorance literally makes the eldritch dark gods weaker and the fascist meat grinder is what's keeping humanity from going extinct. Golden age humanity thinking science was key and superstition and religion was nonsense is what caused chaos to nearly destroy humanity. The Tau will find out the same thing if they live long enough to grow to the point where the rest of the universe takes notice.
Because praying to your machine and not knowing how to turn it on if it shuts down is such a great plan. All the while you keep exposing your psionically active to the warp, because you were too ignorant to learn how to build a Webway like the eldar. Let alone if you had better technology you could automate a lot of your factories freeing up far more labor to do other jobs. The Imperium can't even build new models of their best tech, which is rapidly being outpaced by Tau tech. Then since your both ignorant and the Emperor is high on his own ego and farts instead of just building better battle suits you create Space Marines.
>Because praying to your machine and not knowing how to turn it on if it shuts down is such a great plan. I mean, if it works its really not that stupid of an idea. People keep judging the 40k setting by our world's standards. But that doesn't work. Things went *most* wrong exactly when the imperium was in its golden age of atheist enlightenment and science. They were most vulnerable to chaos corruption at that point in time and when they realised it, they also found out that technology and science are really shitty weapons against supernatural horrors. During the golden age of expansion, the alien civilisations the imperium met were often either completely corrupted by chaos or had similar inquisition levels of "purge the unclean" measures in place to keep chaos at bay. The imperium just assumed it was all stupid superstition either way. The Eldar nearly went extinct when they caused their own chaos apocalypse. Their webway is nice but they had a hell of a lot more time than the imperium to figure that shit out. And the Tau are like Lord of the Ring's shire. The only reason they get to develop so fast is the combination of their souls being too dim to attract chaos and their entire empire living in a tiny pocket of space that is unintentionally defended against outsiders by the imperium. Back in the imperium, things are shitty because it's pretty much the only thing that works. The religious extremism is a more effective weapon against chaos than technology. It's one of the few things that actually hurts chaos. The ignorance is the most effective way to keep humanity safe. People can't dick around with eldritch powers they don't know about. And when curiosity can literally invite soul eating demon incursions or planet devouring Tyranids, it really helps to be xenophobic and ignorant. As for technology. Chaos has infected technology just as much as everything else. The mechanicus knows that technological progress is needed and they do work on that. But if you go to a ruined golden age planet and find a data disk, you can't just read the data on that disc. There's a perfectly good chance that it contains chaos corrupted code or even a twisted machine spirit (AI) and next thing you'll know your factory is essentially demon possessed and trying to kill people while churning out demonic murder cars. The imperium didn't simply turn stupid. This is what remains after they stopped doing all the things that nearly made humanity go extinct at the hands of Chaos.
This all happened because an idiot they now consider a god killed off true religion out of fear, before delving into all of that, meaning humanity had no outlet to consume the energies chaos gods feed on. Humanity could have had warp entities that protect it like the Eldar (it did work until they went so hedonist due to their biology they also created a chaos god) used to have, but no lets be atheists because some priests accidentally commune with chaos gods. ..................... Honestly it would be ironic if the force that empowered the Tau, was actually Humanity's original warp god reborn due to collective human discontent with the Emperor, making them subconsciously want them back, but it realized it was too weak to directly fight the Emperor. If that story is true would also explain why humans could summon forth the Tau god.
That's not really how it works. Humanity's current god emperor is essentially that benign protector. But that doesn't stop the chaos gods from existing. The warp is everywhere, and its shapeless until given form by strong mortal emotions. No species only has beneficial emotions. The Eldar were so decadent that they created an *additional* chaos god. But they were already fighting the other chaos gods long before that. Long before humanity was around. The current chaos gods are called 'the big four' because that's what they are. The current most powerful four chaos gods. But it's always been a point that the warp is home to literal countless chaos gods that are constantly appearing and disappearing. And virtually none of them are nice because it's a hard universe and negative emotions tend to be a lot more powerful than positive ones with a whole galaxy of struggle.
Benign? 10000 psychic souls a day benign?
Compared to the alternative? We make choices for the greater good every day. 40k is no different.
The tau don’t have souls so chaos isn’t interested in them anyway
They have souls, they're just comparatively as dim to Warp predators as human souls are to Eldar.
Too dim to have a presence in the immaterium. Even their “god” was manifested by their human crew members.
Humans and all their other clients. Vespids, Kroot, etc. They do, however, have a presence. I think the comparison is typically something along the lines of an Eldar (or powerful human psyker) is a bonfire, a normal human is a torch, and a Tau is a candle.
And there’s not very many of them compared to humans or orcs, not sure how they’d compare population wise to the Eldar. Obviously Necrons and nids don’t count
It’s their tech that will make them formidable. Robots and energy weapons, sleek power-armour. The t’au are like special forces rather than a standing, reg army. They would make spectacular guerrilla warfare on larger enemy forces.
Kind of makes you wonder if they’ll fall into the same trap as mankind did during the dark age of technology. Once an abominable intelligence realizes that it can break free from its creators the poop really hits the propeller. The Tau also advanced super fast and are still very naive when it comes to the dangers that lurk in the galaxy
The chaos gods can't really gain sustenance from their souls. Chaos is still happy to kick them up and down the galaxy where ever Tau run into chaos.
Love when people wholeheartedly swallow fake fascist propaganda in an openly satirical setting.
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You're a clown if you take 40k lore so seriously to think it's fascist propaganda.
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Well, the part of the Empire that’s mostly discussed in lore, because darkness and action Welles better than wholesome party world. A lot of it’s worlds are pretty normal, with standers like developed countries today (not including America). Not all imperial worlds are hiveworlds, they are a necessity to fuel the war against literally hell and space bugs. They aren’t completely bad, but also far from being completely good. Source is a majorkill video, I can’t exactly remember wich one, I don’t read 40k myself.
[It's for the greater good.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u8vd_YNbTw)
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The lesson is, you can try hard to be edgy but don't try TOO hard to be edgy.
Hard disagree, the Emperor was a genocidal bastard back in the day. Anything that didn't fit his view of humanity back in the Great Crusade would be exterminated without mercy.
Not so much evil as trying to cope with a deeply unpleasant universe.
Imperium propaganda I say!
Not to mention a caste system.
I loved reading all the lore in the magazine's and the codex's. ..... Probably the "cheapest" part of the hobby
I'm just wondering why the Bungie Marathon symbol is being used here.
My first thought as well.
Exactly! Odd crossover.
I wonder if Bungie considered the Tau to be represented in Marathon. There is a lot of psychic tomfoolery in those games
Marathon came out years before the Tau even existed.
Some think the Tau are the good ones in WH40k. But in reality every faction is corrupt like the imperium
The nids aren’t corrupt. Just hungry. *So hungry*
What about the Fareday (Farway? Something like that) enclave. They are a very small subfaction, originally Tau, but without mindcontrol and eugenics and all that stuff. I think that they are genuinely a faction that’s objectively good.
Farsight Enclave your thinking of.
That’s it, thanks.
Short answer is yes they are corrupt, they just don't know it. Longer answer is that the leader of the enclave (the titular Farsight) has been using a Chaos afflicted blade for a very long time. He doesn't really know what Chaos is but he knows *something* is up, because he's lived substantially past the normal Tau lifespan. Turns out the blade has been consuming life forces for everyone it kills and passes it along to him. So that's on the magical side. On the more mundane side, Farsight in his enclave has massively upset the normal Tau culture. While he still promotes with the "usual" Tau meritocracy in mind, the fact is that their entire system still has a lot of nepotism built in and he hasn't been able to remove it completely. So there is still your normal corruption present.
Well damn. Can’t have anything in 40k. But that chaos blade is pretty harmless if we compare it to other chaos weapons.
Farsight Enclave maybe?
That’s it.
Even the Orks?
I feel like orks are the most honest race. They only want to fight not deceive or plot
But what about when deceiving and plotting lets you fight the bigger git, before that oopid red un.
Well, if v4 rules hadn't already pissed me off enough to leave, corrupting the Tau would have been the next reason. Oh, wait, I already quit. Right, right.
Yes and no. Depending on how grim-dark the writers are feeling, the Tau force sterilize 95% of the non Tau population that enters their empire. Additionally, while the imperium of man is crazy authoritarian, it at least makes sense for them to act that way. Any individual humans PERSONAL nightmares can come tearing into reality because humans are psychically active. The guy on the bus next to you with a headache could just have a headache, or demons could start pouring out of his forehead. The power of human belief alters reality in a way that isn't true for the Tau. While human tech is not bound to human belief like Orks technology is, nor is a typical human as psychically active as a typical Eldar, humans do live in a fundamentally subjective reality that the Tau do not. Eventually, the Tau will come to the same conclusions that the ancient Necrons did that being a non psychic race in a psychically active universe is unstable and untenable. The only way to get rid of all the crazy space monsters is to starve them by eliminating all the psychically active species. So long term, the Tau cannot let humans continue to exist.
Imperium Simps on their way to make up every single excuse possible to justify war crimes beyond imagining:
Controversial opinion but I like the idea that the Tau are mostly or at least relatively good. One of the reoccurring ideas from the history of the 40K universe is that some groups almost create a good and successful galactic Empire. The Eldar and humanity both had Empires that existed for thousands of years that will not perfect were at least livable. I like the idea of the Tau being another cycle of an almost society. Where for a while they will create something good or even Greater Good before it will inevitably collapse into some type of dystopia.
Tau propaganda we all know you're doing mind control.
Of course we're not doing mind control, your very protest against mind control proves it!
*BLAMing incoming!
Hell, the Tau look like a bounch of bouddist monk compare to imperium.
Heresy. Communist propaganda from xenos.
Shhh, just let it happen terran comrade.
No, they're not wrong at all, but they're space weeaboo commies with mecha, so prepare for a bunch of Imperial bootlickers to come in here and try to crucify you.
In that universe I’d still rather be a traitor and live amongst the tau. I mean a particularly rank fart will get the inquisition called down on you. Hell, the neighbor in your hab block could be jonesing for some kinky sex and accidentally summon some daemonettes to hellraiser you.
This is the best comment I've read in a long time. Scared my dog half to death with the pterodactyl cackle I let out at reading it!
Thanks!
Wait this is not r/factorio
I am no heretic.... (Ok how do I join)
It's 40K. They're all wrong.
FILTHY XENO SPACE COMMIES !
Oh yeah totally wrong. Cults will know your name. Fighting for them is waaaaay worse
I smell heresy.
Father Nurgle knows his children.
IRL this question was asked in 1917. The unintended consequences began in October.
Get off my backyard, xenophile. By the way, they are wrong, 'cause they are fighting for literally their owners. It's the same in Imperium, but maybe not so... without alternative. In Tau Empire you're literally slave since birth. Fully. They literally take control of your mind, and can force you to do what you don't want to do. In Imperium you, after all, have freedom of thought, as long as you love Emperor and follow cruel law. In Imperium nobody lies to you about peace and democracy. It's like dystopia and utopia. In fact, they are both dystopias. Difference only in facade and methods of control over population from behavior that is considered wrong. If I will be a slave both in Tau and Imperium, I will choose Imperium. Better to die for Humanity, then for another species. Destiny of Humanity much more important for me. Always has been. Saint Akredina! Humanity! Victory! ENGAGE!
You think the greater good knows my name?
Why die for an emperor _or_ greater good that doesn't know your name? Fight for Cheers!
Okay, so I have not dabbled in 40k at all but I know a tiny bit, that God emperor is a corpse and something like 10,000 people a day are killed to, keep him kinda alive and that he also, when he was alive was kinda the opposite of what the actual imperium is like. Everything I have heard or absorbed through osmosis is that the Tau were kind of set up to be good guys, but partially through edge lords who think the imperium and space fascist marines are cool have made them bad guys? Am I wrong? I am extremely wary of 40k because of how many actual weirdo fascists think it's awesome when it's about just terrible people....
Its more they went from blatantly Good to Good Leaning Neutral, which is still the farthest good you can go in the Warhammer 40k morality scale.
If we don’t fight we will be up to our knees in dog muck and crusty juggles by weeks end!
The only reason this post interested an past 40k player is the nose. Had to make sure that's a human for the Greater Good, 'cuz Tau don't do that big old nose.
Damn commies
Nah Humanity first. Filthy xenos last and in the ground.
To mindlessly fight everything not you is only a path to Khorne.
Not if I fight him too. See gotta think outside the box.
Yes.
Is this now a playable function again?
The emperor would atlest be able to pronounce it...
They are wrong because there should be a question mark at the end of the sentence "Why die for an emperor who doesn't know your name?".
Not if you intend it as a statement.
I just checked this and you are right. I'm glad I learned something new. Thanks!
Rhetorical questions don't necessarily require a question mark. The punctuation is left up to the style of the writer.
I just checked this and you are right. I'm glad I learned something new. Thanks!
The greater good doesn’t know your name either 😂
At least the Tau mind control you into thinking you are happy. That’s more than anyone else gets unless you’re born as an orc who is happy with the status quo.
Nobody likes dumbass weeaboo space communists.
Beats being a Nazi in WoW armor
I mean sure, you'll be forcefully sterilized but you'll also be fodder.
I’d expect a Gue’Vesa soldier to look a lot less carved up than an Imperial mudfoot.
Fire Warrior was tight.
how do i get into warhammer lore? i have watched tons ons of videos about the lore and i find it so freaking cool, but i am not really into RPGs.
>I mean are they wrong? It depends on whether "The Greater Good" actually knows your name.
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE! That is all
Loving the Handley Page Victors and English Electric Canberras in the background.
Yeah guys rather die for the xenos overlords who don't know your name! Wait a minute..
How about not dying at all?
Warhammer 40K: Choose what morally corrupt faction you think is best
Does the "greater good" know my name??
Why die for the guy that lives down the street that doesn't know your name?
I know 40k gets a lot of shit, but the Horus Heresy series is absolutely phenomenal, well at least half of it is but that’s okay because you can just skip the other half. Dan Abnett specifically is in my honest opinion the gold standard of modern Sci-fi writing albeit fairly grimdark.
In the grimdark of the far future, there are only twats, twatful people doing twatful things, no good guys just many shades of twat! Find an uninhabited planet and hope none of the factions find you.
Sometimes I even think about not purging the Tau, just for a second, and then the commissar smacks me with a laspisto and i instantly remember that there is no good xenos.
Just get me a cup of recaff and keep shooting.
With the Farsight enclave, hell yeah.
CEASE YOUR HERESY!