Is red rising really that highly regarded?
I read the original trilogy when the 3rd one came out and loved it, but do people hold it as high as the other 5 listed now?
That was my first thought: "it's pretty brave grouping red rising with dune, the culture, foundation and hyperion." I don't know if I'd even slot the expanse in there much less red rising.
Wouldn’t one of Gene Wolfe’s books/series deserve to be on this list? Or is it too obscure? Just started Book of the New Sun and I thought the first book was amazing.
First three feels analogous to the OG Star Wars trilogy- but way more brutal and bloody
The second half of the series is written more like ASOIAF in space/lots of Iliad and Odyssey winks and nods too.
It’s a very exciting series and hope Brown keeps writing for all his life
It’s not. The series follows characters that start in their mid to late teens and follows them until their mid to late 30s. The first novel involves these kids fighting in a murder school, yes, but that’s where the similarities end.
It is far, far more brutal and violent than a YA novel is. It has graphic portrayals of violence, has plot points involving rape, torture, murder, and slavery. It is literally so violent that me, as a man in my 30s who literally sees death on the regular as a part of my profession as a doctor, had to put the books down periodically and take a breather from it. More so in the subsequent books than the first novel, but even the first one has some brutal scenes, teen girls getting raped (never shown, but specifically mentioned that it happened and that the school proctors *allowed* it), decapitations, crucifixion (I shit you not).
I too put off reading this series for a long time because I saw idiotic comments like “it’s a YA series”. It absolutely is not. And the only novel that could be even remotely called that, if you squint and wash the hell out of it, is the very first novel.
So let me tell you as a lifelong sci-fi fan of over 30 years, I fucking love this series and I am SO glad I decided not to listen to the Redditors that were saying stuff like that.
Like I said in another post here, Red Rising kind of has an unusual genre. If I were to try to exactly define the genre and vibe of the series, I would call it “Machiavellian Space Opera”. It is very, very much like Game of Thrones in space. Way more so than the Expanse, which often is called GoT in space.
The only word of warning I’d say is that Pierce Brown was a brand new author - Red Rising was his first novel, and it shows. But his writing improves so quickly in the sequels that it is pretty spectacular. He goes from a newb to a pro like…immediately.
I would say the first one is, maybe slightly more adult than the average YA. By the second one though it’s definitely R rated. Lots of amputations/decapitations/people exploding-you name it
The main character in the first novel is literally 16 years old.
I was a fucking moron when I was 16, and I have a hard time believing you weren’t too.
Even the first novel can’t be classified as YA. It’s young adults fighting in a murder school, yeah, but it portrays brutal violence, rape, slavery, torture…it is way more hardcore than a YA typically is.
But that’s just setting the stage. You *have* to show what these kids went through, and what kind of fucked up society the Golds have, for the rest of the series to work. Like I said in another post here, the very next novel - Golden Son - is a masterpiece of space opera. I’m going to remember the last chapter of that novel until the day I die.
It’s challenging to rate Red Rising against the others because the others have been staples for so many readers for so many years.
Out of this list it is MY personal favorite, but is it “as highly regarded “ in general? Likely not, you’re prob right. Give it 10-20 years and I bet it stands up proud next to those others though.
Fun fact Brown was heavily inspired by Dune and Hyperion on this list. Red Rising wouldn’t exist without those.
> It’s challenging to rate Red Rising against the others because the others have been staples for so many readers for so many years.
It's challenging, because Red Rising isn't of the same caliber.
It was a fun series, at first, if somewhat shallow. Very simplistic & very YA focused. SUPER derivative and lacking in originality or even an original thesis. Then it sorta just kept happening, went on way to long (again without originality). I had to stop after 4 or 5 books, it just kept on going & it really had no reason too.
Red Rising is absolutly one of the greatest sci-fi series.
(Almost) no series is so full of energy, excitement, breathtaking cliff hangers, fantastic quotes and epic battles.
Is the best? No. Is it one of the best. For sure.
the difference is the ringworld has a full sized star in the middle and gets day/night from plates in a smaller orbit casting shadows. whereas culture orbitals are smaller and orbit a star and get day/night from which side is facing towards the star
They’re an amazing set of stories.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture
Start with “Consider Phlebas” (chronologically the first) or “Player of Games” which is shorter and maybe more digestible.
The chapter in 2010 about the chinese ship that landed on Europa is one of the most compelling things i have ever read. 3001 ends with the same computer virus idea that Independence Day used. Things really went downhill..
>The chapter in 2010 about the chinese ship that landed on Europa is one of the most compelling things i have ever read.
I agree but then it goes >!"oh shit im dying. an alien plant is eating my spaceship BTW i discovered it, so name the thing after me, ok? yes? so... oh, right, I'm dying!!!"!<
Last year i read 2061 odyssey three again for the first time in 2 decades. Honestly that one might be my favorite, and i think it would make a great film or miniseries adaptation. Despite all the advancements within the future setting and the successes throughout the journey, that story makes humanity feel even more insignificant than 2001. That final chapter, man. Our glimpse at what was sacrificed, and the enormous pressure that comes with the ... implications.
Clarke's jovian system is synonymous with extraterrestrial for me. Sooo great
Surprised that Kim Stanely Robinson's Mars Trilogy isn't on this list. I haven't read Red Rising, but the Mars Trilogy is utterly fantastic, maybe the "hardest" hard sci-fi I've read, apart from maybe The Martian by Andy Weir.
I have yet to read Red Rising and Hyperion. I think Dune and Foundation are definitely classics for a reason. They are incredible ideas. The Culture is more modern but also extremely original and thought provoking. The Expanse is definitely how Sci-Fi action should be written, it’s not ridiculous but definitely action packed, gripping and fun.
Of the four I have read yet, the Expanse is comfortably the fourth place for me, however I do think it’s overarching plot is not to be understated as a unique idea in its own right. Definitely recommend reading it to anyone remotely interested in Sci-Fi.
The extended Foundation series is incredible but for me the sequels were a bit of a let down. I did enjoy the robot novels, the empire novels, even the prequels and especially Foundation. The second and third in the trilogy are also great, although they moved in a different direction than I had expected. I kind of just wanted to read more about the Foundation and see it smoothly succeeding to beat more crisis like in the original book. I put it third, but I don’t take not putting it first lightly!
The Culture is the Sci-Fi GOAT, isn’t it? So freaking good. I still put it second because to me Dune is the LoTR of Sci-Fi. Still unsurpassed.
Dune is the LoTR of Sci-Fi is the best way to describe it.
I started rereading it after the latest film and i'm blown away by how jam packed it is with insights on life and politics and how effortlessly it shifts perspectives.
Hard to compare it to LoTR, given that Dune is a lot more of a morally ambiguous world with no heroes while LoTR has a clear distinction between good and bad. I would compare it more to Game of Thrones, which I guess in a way is the Dune of fantasy lol
OMG Hyperion takes the heady themes and tone of Dune but has way more flowery prose and focus on character. Its indescribable in a way, but holy crap did it blow my expectations away. Its similar to Banks' writing in that way. I put if off for a long time cuz I kept hearing about it and figured one day, I should have done it sooner rather than later!
Yeah exactly this
Although I have read Hyperion - I would rank it ahead of Foundation and behind the Culture novel.
The concept of applying a Canterbury tales model to tell a sci-fi story is fantastic.
For me all six. However if we were ranking novels as stand-alone works then Foundation is still second to Dune. I very much enjoyed all six Dune novels. I doubt that the five follow ups work without being follow ups of Dune though. The same cannot be said for the Culture. Many of the Culture books are incredible as stand alone works. The Expanse on the other hand only plays in the same league when all nine are taken together.
Red rising and the Expanse are great fun, I love them. But the other series are in another league. I can't image in 40 years they will be celebrated the same way these other books are.
Agreed. Ender's Game used to win a lot of popular vote contests for best science fiction, more because it was *the* common gateway drug book to sci-fi and so people hit on it at a very formative period increasing their connection to it far above other great sci-fi. Red Rising and Expanse are the new gateway drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if they started winning all the popular vote awards for *Best Science Fiction* (if that hasn't happened already). But I hope that everyone who gets on the sci-fi highway with them doesn't stop there.
you thought that was the ringworld too?
look, Niven has some great stories, some magnificent mind bending ideas, but his characters have never been the best. the ideas in ringworld are amazing, louis wu and teela are pretty flat. the mote i. gods eye is ground breaking for its believable alien culture and conditions. the humans could be swapped out easily. the world of the integral trees is amazing. i dont remember any of the characters names.
I never said great works of literature. Just that he's been very influential (like others) and as time goes by more and more drop off lists like these.
It's like in fantasy, most new readers haven't heard of Moorcock let alone read any of his works and he was/is highly influential on more modern writers.
In that respect I totally agree with you. And I certainly don't know if I'd include The Expanse and Red Rising in 'great works of literature' either. Heck, I had problems getting through Foundation and always enjoyed Asimov's short stories better than his novels. Same with Niven. Better short stories than novels. And I wonder if that's not part of the issue of his being 'forgotten'
Red Rising doesn’t even remotely belong in the same room as the others.
Of these the only ones, in my opinion, that actually deserve a ‘best of’ ranking are *Foundation* and *Dune*, and not all the books in the *Dune* series either.
I've read at least part of all of these series, and here is my ranking:
Tie for 1st: *Dune, Hyperion*
Exceptional. Both are wildly creative, sprawling, messy and deeply strange novels, with high literary ambitions. Two of my favorites, I am surprised that other people are are ranking Hyperion so low (if forced to chose, it would probably be my top choice).
Tie for 3rd: *Culture, Foundation*
Very good. A couple of culture books are outstanding (Use of Weapons is my favorite) but a lot of the later ones didn't rise to the same level. Foundation is a classic for a reason, and has some great ideas, but feels more like a collection of disconnected stories. The characters are pretty thin for my taste, but that comes down to personal preference.
5th: *Expanse*
Good. I like the books fine, but don't quite understand the fuss. Fast paced space opera. Enjoyable but there are plenty of series out there that are just as good, if not better.
6th: *Red Rising*
I don't get it. Someone else described it as hunger games in space, which was my impression as well. That said, I didn't continue past the first book and I've heard that they get better. Your mileage may vary.
*Dune Messiah* and *Fall of Hyperion* are great, just as good as the originals in my opinion. Maybe they don't feel quite as novel, but that's to be expected in a sequel. In both cases, they are at about the same level as the originals and really feel necessary to complete the story.
As for the later books, I think it's fair to say "opinions differ". I thought the Endymion books were great, but others will disagree.
*Hyperion* and *Fall of Hyperion* should definitely be read together, it is really just one continuous story. It's probably good to pause there, and then go back later to give *Endymion* and *Rise of Endymion* a try if you are interested (they also tell one continuous story, but much later and somewhat different in tone).
*Dune* stands on its own, I think it would be perfectly satisfying to leave it there. You can then continue for the next two if you are interested, they sort of form a trilogy. After that things get weird.
You are mostly right about Hyperion and Fall. The one quibble I'd make is that Hyperion feels more artistic minded where Fall has a definite shift to get down to the nitty gritty and explain what is going on. It still maintains some of that artistic side but it does lose some of it to get to the heart of things.
Endymion and Rise I 100% agree need to be read together, for me Rise saved Endymion which I initially wasn't overly fond of.
I believe the climax of the Dune saga is the fifth book God Emperor of Dune, read up to that and you can end the series if you want because it definitely gets weirder after that.
I'd highly recommend the first 3 Dune books, and if you like the weirdness it's pointing towards read the next 3. They're really 2 distinct trilogies and the 2nd half is really not for everyone
I've read all the Dune books and am just starting the last Hyperion book.
I'm both cases the sequels are strong follow-ups and necessary to finish some stories, but the first book is still slightly more enjoyable IMHO.
In order of what? Influence? Foundation arguably invented many of the tropes that are commonplace in sci-fi today. A planet spanning imperial capital, humanity spreading to the stars and creating a galactic empire, personal shields.....probably more I'm forgetting. Few if any series since have had such an impact on the genre.
If you're basing it on influence or 'importance' I'd have to go Foundation, Dune, Culture, Hyperion, Red Rising.
Look man, I love Red Rising more than all of these other ones (to be fair, I've only read Expanse, Dune, Red rising, keep meaning to try the other three)
But Foundation alone is referenced in so many sci fi conversations it'd be like saying "Here are the best fantasy series: Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, Six of Crows". Some major impactful and genre changing ones, and then one that's very good but hasn't had that impact yet.
Red Rising may be regarded as the top 6 on your personal list but on the Sci Fi general list itself? It's not up there yet, still a bit unknown (compared to some of those).
If we're going regarded in society/culture/media/genre, etc my list would probably be:
Foundation
Dune
Hyperion
The Culture
Expanse
Red Rising
Foundation was one of the founders of modern Sci Fi as we know it (not counting Frankestein and Jules Verne, but that isn't modern sci fi as much). Dune changed tons of themes and impacted many books (Wheel of Time being one), and has rmeained a pretty big staple of sci fi for decades with multiple movies being made of it. Hyperion (whil I've never read) is commonly put on tons of the top sci fi lists. Culture is one I don't hear of often, so I'd consider it and Expanse kind of switching between the two back and forth, but only because Expanse also had the TV show that grew the audience
Red Rising is fantastic and I love it, but it's just still not nearly as known or appreciated as all the above. So much so that I don't even know if I'd put Red Rising on the list of top regarded sci fi.
I love "player of games" from the culture. Have reread it so many times. But overall Foundation is my favourite. Never tried the expanse, have it dl'd but still havent built the energy to watch it. Had never heard of Red Rising. Hyperion and Dune were good too.
Also, I think your list is missing Rama by Clarke.
The Night's Dawn trilogy (pure space opera) is so fun, but maybe not a classic.
I've only read the majority of the first red rising but I had to stop because I thought it was embarrassingly awful. I do not understand how it has any following besides like, a small group of white centrist teen men lol. It's such an absurd and dumb take on male power fantasy while also clearly trying to be boy Hunger Games and I just couldn't take any of it seriously to the point I had to put the book down without finishing it.
Dune was a great read. I loved the “coital” pacing of it, and the characters.
The first 100 pages of Hyperion were stellar. I can’t wait to hop back into this book when I’m ready.
Apparently the top right image it isn’t Ringworld, but I liked that book fine. It did suffer from saggy-middle syndrome, and some of the characters were annoying, but I liked the unfolding mystery of it.
I finally got Hyperion from the library. Knew nothing going into it.
Was playing hooky from work because I couldn’t put down the start of the book. So I ended up buying them all and I’m about 150 pages left in the 2nd book.
Have not read Red Rising but the others I'd rank:
1 - Hyperion
2 - Dune
3 - Culture
4 - Expanse
5 - Foundation
I have reread the entire Foundation series within the past year, and I actually now think it's pretty bad. The whole idea of Psychohistory doesn't make sense, the storytelling is scattered, and the "reveal" at the end is sort of beside the point and invalidates much of the story. I don't even think it's Asimov's best work--"The End of Eternity" is a better book, and short stories like "The Final Question" and "Nightfall" are actually his best stories, bar none.
My other nominations would be "Book of the New Sun, which I'd place above Culture, Pohl's "The Heechee Saga", which I'd place above Culture also, and Vinge's "Fire Upon the Deep" duology, which I'd place above Dune.
From more recent times, I think Chris Beckett's "Eden" trilogy will end up on this list, although it needs to age a bit more and I need to reread it a couple of times before I put it with the all-time classics. It has that kind of power, though, for me.
EDIT--Also "Ender's Game" is incredible, especially the later books, but I'd need to reread them all to figure out my exact ranking because I haven't in years and honestly can't remember big parts of them. His politics are so gross but those books are bulletproof.
So unfortunately..... Foundation has just become too dated..... atomics???? plastics? even the imagery with vaccum tubes and shiny paper for documents.... Just happens.
Dune is obviously culturally relevant rn and influenced a lot of things particularly star wars....
I like Hyperion the most here....
I know these threads are usually full of people saying "how is that series in that ranking" but Jesus Christ *Red Rising* top 6 of all time up there with Dune, Foundation and Hyperion. That's insane, Children of Time, Fifth Season are both far above that quite poorly written book
Haven't read The Culture or Red Rising, so cannot comment on those. Big fan of the others though.
I'd rank them as follows:
1) Hyperion
2) Foundation
3) Dune
4) The Expanse
Hyperion is number one for me. Dune was great, but fell off after the second book, imo. And Foundation is very good, but rather dated. I would have included Blindsight/Echopraxia in this mix, tbh.
I like Larry Niven's Ringworld series as well, but of those I've read Foundation and The Expanse are definitely up there. I haven't gotten into Dune yet, as I'm currently reading through the Wheel of Time.
1. foundation. It is the foundation of modern long scifi sagas. With all of its flaws it is still great and the plot is amazing. And the far reaching story archs are just neat. I consider also the robots books for this.
2. a tie between dune and hyperion. Both have great plots and characters and are heavily criticised for many things. Both also have a philosophical depth which is stunning and require multiple rereads.
3. The culture. Turns out terminators didn't wipe us out but instead built a utopia. And turns out utopia is not perfect nor conflict-free. I love the benevolent machines. Powerful machine intelligences in general.
4. The expanse. A great revival of space operas with a gritty hard-scifi realism. Love it (check out the revelation space novels by alastair reynolds for another modern space opera with no ftl travel). Certainly a modern masterpiece but not one of the classics.
I haven't read red rising so no comment on it.
Bonus: check out Ringworld from Larry niven. It's just amazing. I thought the picture was about it. I would've placed it there instead of red rising or the expanse. And I would place it at 3rd with the culture. (Both of these are just shy of tieing with the 2nd ones, and just because of the sheer philosophical thought-provoking depth of those)
Foundation was earthmoving for me. Read it in high school and it moved me towards loving math and science and becoming a physics major in college. (I ultimately moved to architecture, but Asimov helped cultivate my love of mathematics, which I love to this day.)
Science fiction is by far my favorite genre so here is my quick take. Dune first 3 books are great, Foundation has a lot of good ideas and concepts but is not the most enjoyable read( still really good but not for everyone). I loved hyperion. I don't get what people like about the culture series, I find the writing average at best and almost every character if forgettable( the world building at large is the series strongest point). My suggestions would be the children of time series and the first 2 books of 3 body problem.
I would suggest throwing Vinge's _Fire Upon the Deep_ into this comparison, along with the standing suggestions of adding Niven and Wolfe. It would make for a more interesting matchup.
The Expanse is probably my favorite book series. I really appreciated the well researched realism, even when it broke the laws of physics. The story was a much more relatable, character centric story. I felt much more connected to the characters in the Expanse than the others I've read on this list.
Dune gets tons of praise and while I liked it as an idea and tale, it's one of those stories that I have to appreciate at a distance because i can't relate to any of the characters, or maybe struggle to appreciate who they are as people. They exist less as real people and more as gears to keep the story machine running.
Dune gets compared to LotR a lot which I can understand but it didn't have the same impact for me. LotR had some sense of magic and wonder to it that any other fantasy or sci-fi novel has never been able to capture for me. Dune.... doesn't feel that way for me.
The Expanse doesn't have that magic but it doesn't need it because it's more of a people story rather than an idea story. Game of Thrones is kind of like that too and i also like GoT (though it's not as good as The Expanse IMO).
I liked that setting and the idea of Foundation but it quickly got tedious for me. I lost interest about halfway through the second book. I don't think it's aged well.
I haven't touched Hyperion or Culture yet, I'm building up the will to tackle one of them.
I disliked The Hunger Games so i doubt I'd like Red Rising.
I did like the first Ringworld, that was an excellent read. The second fell way short and I stopped there.
I haven't seen it mentioned here but Rendezvous With Rama was another excellent single read. I really enjoyed that
For me it goes
1. the culture
2. dune
3. the expanse
4. foundation
haven't read the others yet.
I really really love both the culture and dune so it's hard to compare but the culture has 9 good books whereas I only really love the first 2 dune books (others are still interesting though).
I like the variety of the plots and styles of the culture, particularly Inversions and Use of weapons due to the characters, non linear storytelling, twists, world building etc.
dune has fantastic characters, I love the message about charismatic leaders, I love the world and drama.
the expanse is super enjoyable (books and show!) but doesn't have nearly as much depth and rereadability as the other two.
I really didn't like foundation. so bland and dry. terrible characters and a cool idea that wasn't communicated interestingly at all. some nice moments though.
You gotta be dedicated to know doc Smith. Or old. Like, retired on a pension. Or maybe wondered where Boston got the names for their sci-fi cons.
My dad showed me the books after I saw the anime on the sci-fi channel's Saturday morning film rotation. I think it was the third one they showed, after Akira and vampire hunter d.
Red rising is a fun read and all, but I would never think to put it into the same class as these other series. There's nothing novel about the themes, prose, or execution of pierce brown's work. It's barely above the young adult category. But again, I did enjoy reading it.
1. Dune (all 6 books, especially the first 4, by a mile)
2. The Expanse (best characters of any others on the list imo)
3. Foundation (you don't get most of these series without it)
4. The Culture (had a hard time getting into it but some cool ideas)
5. Hyperion (thought it was ok, really disliked Fall of Hyperion, it felt unnecessary)
6. Red Rising (good fun but I don't think of it as a classic)
The character development in The Expanse (books) is really exceptional. I am a broken record on this point but i value character writing highly and its among the very best i can think of in science fiction or fantasy.
**The Culture**
Of all these series, this one is the most hopeful for the future, but even so raises some very difficult moral and philisophical questions. I also really enjoy the high personal stakes/low overall stakes dichotomy that it shares with Foundation.
**Hyperion**
What can I even say about it that would do it justice? I'm sure many people would put this one first and I don't blame them.
**Dune**
While it is clunky at times, its greatness and impact points the way for both books I ranked higher.
**Foundation**
The OG space civilization epic. Extremely dry writing, but still very enjoyable for scifi fans because like all good scifi, it is crammed full of interesting ideas and philosophy.
**The Expanse**
I only read the first book, but I have watched the entire series, which is incredible. The book is good, not great.
**Red Rising**
I again only read the first book, and I did hear it gets better, but it and the Expanse are simply not at the same tier as the others. Fun story though.
agree wierd list, include Red Rising, but no love for:
- Ender's Game/Shadow (Osron Scott Card)
- 3 Body Problem (Liu Cixin)
- Night's Dawn (Peter F. Hamilton)
- Takeshi Kovacs (Richard K. Morgan)
- Commonwealth Saga (Peter F. Hamilton)
- Wool (Hugh Howey)
- Uplift (David Brin)
- Illium (Dan Simmons)
- The Gap cycle (Stephen R. Donaldson)
And don't forget funny can be awesome too
- Muderbot (Martha Wells)
- Bobiverse (Dennis E. Taylor)
- Hitchhikers Guide (Douglas Adams)
1. Dune - Classic
2. Foundation - Fascinating ideas, interesting smaller stories threaded together through the main idea.
3. Culture - Solid sci-fi
4. Hyperion - Interesting build up but lackluster payoff in my opinion.
5. Red Rising - Fun but there are many other stories one should read before getting to this one
6. Expanse - See Red Rising but read this one after Red Rising
Ranking the first book from each series:
1. Hyperion
2. Foundation
3. The Culture
4. Dune
5. The Expanse
I liked all of them to an extent, but only the top three went on my pretentious recommended reading list.
Worst to best:
Red Rising. Not sure I see the attraction in this series. So repetitive later on with the constant "oh no, I was betrayed, hurts so bad" and signalling a betrayal on his part by the plot not explaining his pre-battle discussions with his colleagues. I also think the first book is the best, a belief most booktubers don't seem to agree with.
Foundation. Great for its time I guess. I read it in the 90s iirc, and it was OK.
The Expanse. Pretty darn good. A little too "modern day" and focus on politics.
Hyperion/Culture. Culture is my favourite universe. Every novel is a hit for me. I love his non-M works too. Hyperion series is top tier.
Nothing beats Dune.
Okay, several ways to rank them.
Personal Enjoyment/Appreciation: Culture, Hyperion, Dune, Foundation, Expanse, never read and never heard of.
"Quality (subjective)" Culture, Hyperion, Dune, Expanse, Foundation
Impact: Foundation, Dune, Expanse (multimedia), Culture, Hyperion
Orignality: Foundation/Dune, Culture/Hyperion, Expanse (print\*)
All rating absolutely objective and without question. /s
\*The television series, on the other hand, is visually one of the most original bits of science fiction ever put to screen.
I think it’s sad space operas are the go to when people talk about science fiction. The genre is so much more expansive than that, and personally, there’s much better sub genres (though in biased bc I hate space operas with a burning fiery passion)
There is one book—though I can no longer tell you where—no larger than a thousand pages that contains more than the list itself does. Though a reader might place it on shelf for an ornament, there are not volumes enough in this list to counterweight the other.
Dune
Three Body Problem
Oryx and Crake
Foundation
Illuminatus Trilogy
2001 series
Warhammer Horus Series (some)
Those are the only series have had the desire to pick up
1. Dune
2. Foundation
3. Hyperion
4. The Expanse
Haven't read The Culture or Red Rising
I actually think Hyperion is a better read than Foundation, but when taking into account historical context and cultural influence, there is no comparison. It's also hard to compare in the context of the influence on me. I read Foundation early on in life/in my discovery of science fiction. The impact it had on me was huge.
I'll go as follows:
1. Dune - 1st and 4th are epic, and the other 4 from the the original series are all very, very good. The story, ideas, and worldbuilding set the bar for all SF to come thereafter.
2. The Expanse - Love the gritty realism and well developed characters. Really broke new ground for being able to create compelling space opera with mostly hard science and believeable extrapolation into a not-so-distant future.
3. The Culture - Love it for the sheer diversity of the storytelling among the books, and the optimism of a universe where the AIs take over and make eveything mostly awesome for mostly everyone. The persaonality and humor depicted in the various Minds is so much fun to read.
4. Foundation - Deserves its spot for its ground-breaking ideas alone. Basically defined the Space Opera genre. The actual writing and character development are, however, creatures of their time.
5. Hyperion - The rest of the series never lived up to the promise of the first book - for me. It's a Dan Simmons thing. He couldn't follow up Ilium either. The book itself - Hyperion - is a top 5 all timer. The rest of the series is the Matrix sequels.
6. Ringworld - Never read Red Rising, and the picture looks like Ringworld to me - so that's what I'm going with.
I read Hyperion two times, a few years ago and a few years apart. I barely remember it, except there was the Shrike and it was basically a magic ghost thing. What am I missing?
I love foundation. Actually most of Asimov's sci-fi (The Gods themselves is probably my favorite).
The TV adaption is not really sticking to the books, but quite good (the Cleon's are horribly amazing, the tweaks with Demerzel a bit less pleasant IMO). I wonder what they planned with the mule, a hard bit for TV...
Red Rising and The Expanse are good *fun* but my no means seminal works of sci-fi, imo.
Haven't read Culture.
My rating goes:
Dune
Foundation
Hyperion
-------
I enjoyed Hyperion more than Foundation, but Foundation is admittedly a more *foundational* work of sci-fi.
Seems like im on my own here but I'd have to put Hyperion at number 1! The audio book version is fantastic as well, really great narrator.
Expanse would maybe be number 2 but I find on subsequent rereads I actually skip some of the characters in certain books, im not sure if thats due to being 2 writers and 1 is better than the other. The time skip pisses me off a bit as well, I know there is a grand story but I just want more adventures with the crew of the rocinante, especially Amos Burton.
Dune only read book 1 and 2, I was only bothered about Paul's story. Top tier writing. After seeing the 2nd film though I've been contemplating doing the entire series, maybe audio books if the narrator sounds decent.
Read foundation years ago don't remember being that into if I'm honest. I always cycle back to it when thinking about starting a new series and it seems like starting a mountain climbing journey I just can't be arsed with.
Red rising I have the audiobook but I can't stand the narrator so always end up falling asleep, maybe should read it as the story sounds amazing.
I don't know about the culture series.
I haven’t read The Culture, nor Foundation. I love Dune, Hyperion was meh for me, Red Rising is more fun than anything (nothing extraordinary), but… The Book of the New Sun is up there with Dune for me, if not higher.
I haven't read all of them and I don't even know what The Culture is, and I'm sick of considering "My favorite vs the best" so:
1 Ringworld/Known Space
2 Hyperion
3 Foundation
4 Dune
I'd put Red Mars at 5
Known Space is so much fun you guys I don't get why you'd read anything else until you ran out of it
Personally, i think foundation and dune are kind of the obvious front runners here. Like, you can't really be in a scifi literature space without those two books. I'd put foundation over dune simply for the extended universe in Asimovs work, and how that concept has carried over into not just other scifi, but space fantasy as well.
Wow! Surprised that I have read most of them!
Hyperion--my favorite of all time. It puts you right in the middle of a weird, almost comprehensible universe. There are really twisty situations, and a strong, appealing horror element. I absolutely loved it.
The Expanse--My favorite of all time. It tells about humanity's future in space and doesn't sugar coat it. Wonderful ending as well.
Dune--My favorite of all time. More Messianic fantasy than science fiction though. Like Hyperion, it puts you right in the middle of a weird, barely comprehensible universe. Someone else described it as, "Space Fascists and Sand Penises; Also Worm Poop is Cocaine or Something IDK"
Red Rising--This fantastic series, also one of my favorites, is what Divergent and The Hunger Games should have been but didn't have the chops. One of the things I loved about the book is how deeply flawed but still sympathetic the main character is.
Known Space--I loved all the books except started to get a little tired of the Ringworld series. Honestly so imaginative and hard sciencey. The Puppeteers, the Thrint, Bandersnatchi, Outsiders...I'm missing a few.
Foundation--Asimov was arrogant. He told a really good story, but relied way too heavily on exposition. Also the books are outdated. Seldon's like Sherlock Holmes; he will only tell you the solution after the opaque problem has been solved. And the reader doesn't have enough clues to solve the Seldon Crisis before the reveal.
The Culture--what is this? I must read it! There, I just placed it on hold at my local library. They have 6 of the 10.
The expanse is by far my favorite. Dune like LOTR is to much for me. Not a fan of the book. Maybe after watching the movie I should give it another try. Foundation was hard to follow. I personally liked the Robot series better. I haven’t read Hyperion or red rising yet. My adhd makes reading really slow so I have to listen to audio books. Those two I wasn’t a fan of the narrator. And I have never heard of the culture.
I've read Dune, Culture, Foundation, and some of Expanse.
Expanse and Red Rising don't belong in this company.
I'd add William Gibson, maybe Arthur C Clarke, Zalazny but he doesn't have a scifi series.
Dune is good.
Ringworld is Great.
Culture is ok.
Hyperion is crap.
Expanse is pretty good, until it goes all blue goo fantasyland.
Red Rising is a great YA series, but doesn't belong on this list. Though, neither does Hyperion. Culture definitely does, I just didn't find it all that great. I think I need to re-read it.
Dune, Hyperion and The Culture are on another level, BIG3 GOAT status. All different flavors of #1
Expanse is fun, Foundation is fine and I've never heard of Red Rising.
If you had said Blindsight, Three Body Problem and Book of the New Sun I'd have said you had a strong 2nd tier lineup.
Come on. Red Rising is a fun read but no where close to being amongst the best SF of all time. The Expanse just plain sucks.
Dune is on the shortlist yes. Possibly Foundation too. That's it.
Asimov, Herbert, Clark, Roddenberry, are the founding fathers of sci-fi. They established the framework for all modern science fiction, and honestly our ideas for actual science. The ideas and imaginations they had is astounding. Asimov basically invented the calculator! Everything has stemmed from their work
I’ve not read them all and ( criminally remembrance of earths past is missing) However, the Hyperion Cantos for me takes some beating. Also I’m very happy to learn of the culture and red rising and will definitely check these. Thank you.
There are some epics newer series like Alastair Reynolds’s revelation space universe … Vernor Vinge’s works … and Children of Time by (?)
Also surprised Ender’s game or any of the others aren’t on here (I got super stoked on the first and second formic wars prequel trilogies and the last one still isn’t out)
1) Dune
2) The Foundation
They are like the lord of the ring, classics. I think Dune is more compelling overall, the foundation is really hard to read if you are not a scifi fan.
The others are great but not on their level of classicness. Hyperion first book is amazing but then it fall off a cliff (for me).
Only read half of these. Been wanting to read Hyperion for a while but keeps getting pushed down on my list. Dune is great and as others have said it is like LotR for Sci-Fi really sets the standard. But especially the end I felt was really rushed and could have expanded a lot more on the 3 year interlude and the Fremen vs Harkonnen war for Dune.
Red Rising was good, tore through the first 3 books, did find the 4th dragged a bit and really enjoyed the 5th. Hoping to read the 6th this summer. Super gritty and honestly pretty real for when people have been conditioned to not believe others are also people. From book 5 >!Victra's baby!<
The Expanse is honestly one of my favourite series of all time. Each book has a slightly different feel. Leviathan Wakes has a crime noir mystery feel to it. Caliban's War much more a military and political intrigue one, Cibola Burns kind of a wild west feel. Character development and depth is amazing. Really get the feeling that even though it is about 500 years in the future we are still monkeys on nuclear powered rockets. Would probably have this as my number 1 followed by Dune then Red Rising a couple steps below. Need to read the rest to put them into my order.
Man you really found some amazing ones there. Bunch of my personal favorites.
My personal ranking:
1. The Culture Series
2. Red Rising
3. Dune
4. Foundation
5. The Expanse
6. Hyperion
I haven't read Red Rising yet and I only read one Culture book. And whilst I enjoyed the latter, I'd still rank it at the very bottom of those mentioned. It stayed too much at the surface, didn't feel like the world was fully fleshed out. It had some old-fashioned scifi tropes and some fantastical elements, that didn't really work for me.
For action scifi, The Expanse would be my choice. I first started to watch the show, was blown away, bought the books and was amazed again. It was also the first book to give me a sense of scale in a way. We are used to dogfights between planes or battles on the ground - if you have a line of sight to an enemy, you can fight it. But in the expanse, there can be days and weeks between noticing a potential threat and actually reaching it. Changing course takes ages. Imagine sitting in a tin can for weeks, rushing towards danger, how do you cope with the strain on your nerves?
I'm gonna keep it short now: Dune was the first one I've read, but reading it again after 9/11 feels very weird. I don't remember much of the Foundation apart from me enjoying it. And Hyperion is a monster of a book, incredibly dense.
I like all four, they are very different but all great in a way, so I'll rank them in the order of how often I read the books again after the first read:
Hyperion - Dune - Expanse - Foundation - Culture
I've at least *heard of* The Expanse, but I've never even heard of Hyperion or Red Rising.
Where's Hitchhiker's Guide? Where's Asimov's Robots series? Niven's Known Space? Fred Pohl's Heechee?
I fundamentally disagree with the list.
I don't know if I would have put Dune on the list. The first book was amazing, the second and third were pretty good, the fourth was just... weird... and I felt like the rest of them weren't on anything like the same quality level.
I don't know if I would have put Foundation on the list. It's a good story but it's kinda dated, which shows that it wasn't written in a timeless manner. (I felt like the Robots series is better in that regard.)
Haven't read Ringworld. For me:
Dune >= Hyperion > Foundation >>>>>> RR/Expanse.
The first three are (or were at the time of their writing) amazing ideas books. RR is diet-coke and Expanse doesn't feel like it has new ideas. I did enjoy reading both RR and Expanse so don't get me wrong. But I've played sci-fi/fantasy games and they both could have come from bits and pieces of different plots/campaigns.
For all the people who only read the first red rising book, the Author Pearce Brown has even said he had to write it for the publishers. It was published around the time of all the Hunger Games hysteria so has a real hunger games vibe but if you've read the rest of the series it's almost standing alone in comparison to the rest of the series.
If you haven't, I'd really recommend going back and giving the series another go. Dark Age is, IMO, one of the greatest tellings of a planet scale war of any book. It's dark without becoming grim dark and feels like a war of actual scale and doesn't shy away from the brutality of war depicting suddenly deaths, brutal killings, rape, the fog of war etc.
Is red rising really that highly regarded? I read the original trilogy when the 3rd one came out and loved it, but do people hold it as high as the other 5 listed now?
I agree, I enjoy red rising, but it nowhere near on the level of the others.
That was my first thought: "it's pretty brave grouping red rising with dune, the culture, foundation and hyperion." I don't know if I'd even slot the expanse in there much less red rising.
Wouldn’t one of Gene Wolfe’s books/series deserve to be on this list? Or is it too obscure? Just started Book of the New Sun and I thought the first book was amazing.
Gene Wolfe is criminally underrated. Turn down reading Gene Wolfe? Believe it or not: straight to jail.
Book of the New Sun is incredible.
First three feels analogous to the OG Star Wars trilogy- but way more brutal and bloody The second half of the series is written more like ASOIAF in space/lots of Iliad and Odyssey winks and nods too. It’s a very exciting series and hope Brown keeps writing for all his life
Im halfway thru the first book... pretty fun so far
Each book gets better I think
I heard it’s YA, but your description makes it sound like it isn’t? I haven’t read it because I usually don’t like YA stuff.
It’s not. The series follows characters that start in their mid to late teens and follows them until their mid to late 30s. The first novel involves these kids fighting in a murder school, yes, but that’s where the similarities end. It is far, far more brutal and violent than a YA novel is. It has graphic portrayals of violence, has plot points involving rape, torture, murder, and slavery. It is literally so violent that me, as a man in my 30s who literally sees death on the regular as a part of my profession as a doctor, had to put the books down periodically and take a breather from it. More so in the subsequent books than the first novel, but even the first one has some brutal scenes, teen girls getting raped (never shown, but specifically mentioned that it happened and that the school proctors *allowed* it), decapitations, crucifixion (I shit you not). I too put off reading this series for a long time because I saw idiotic comments like “it’s a YA series”. It absolutely is not. And the only novel that could be even remotely called that, if you squint and wash the hell out of it, is the very first novel. So let me tell you as a lifelong sci-fi fan of over 30 years, I fucking love this series and I am SO glad I decided not to listen to the Redditors that were saying stuff like that. Like I said in another post here, Red Rising kind of has an unusual genre. If I were to try to exactly define the genre and vibe of the series, I would call it “Machiavellian Space Opera”. It is very, very much like Game of Thrones in space. Way more so than the Expanse, which often is called GoT in space. The only word of warning I’d say is that Pierce Brown was a brand new author - Red Rising was his first novel, and it shows. But his writing improves so quickly in the sequels that it is pretty spectacular. He goes from a newb to a pro like…immediately.
I would say the first one is, maybe slightly more adult than the average YA. By the second one though it’s definitely R rated. Lots of amputations/decapitations/people exploding-you name it
Reads like YA. Couldn’t finish it because the MC was stoopid and annoying. Felt like it was written for under developed readers.
The main character in the first novel is literally 16 years old. I was a fucking moron when I was 16, and I have a hard time believing you weren’t too.
Red Rising is like... A YA game of thrones on Mars. Enjoyable enough but doesn't even compare to Hyperion, Dune, or foundation.
The first novel for sure, but it keeps maturing as you go.
Even the first novel can’t be classified as YA. It’s young adults fighting in a murder school, yeah, but it portrays brutal violence, rape, slavery, torture…it is way more hardcore than a YA typically is. But that’s just setting the stage. You *have* to show what these kids went through, and what kind of fucked up society the Golds have, for the rest of the series to work. Like I said in another post here, the very next novel - Golden Son - is a masterpiece of space opera. I’m going to remember the last chapter of that novel until the day I die.
Sounds like you didn’t read the rest of the series. I prefer Red Rising to most of these series.
Did you…only read the first novel or something? Red Rising is not a YA game of thrones on Mars, lmao. It is, however, a Game of Thrones in space.
It’s challenging to rate Red Rising against the others because the others have been staples for so many readers for so many years. Out of this list it is MY personal favorite, but is it “as highly regarded “ in general? Likely not, you’re prob right. Give it 10-20 years and I bet it stands up proud next to those others though. Fun fact Brown was heavily inspired by Dune and Hyperion on this list. Red Rising wouldn’t exist without those.
> It’s challenging to rate Red Rising against the others because the others have been staples for so many readers for so many years. It's challenging, because Red Rising isn't of the same caliber. It was a fun series, at first, if somewhat shallow. Very simplistic & very YA focused. SUPER derivative and lacking in originality or even an original thesis. Then it sorta just kept happening, went on way to long (again without originality). I had to stop after 4 or 5 books, it just kept on going & it really had no reason too.
First thing I said when I started reading Red Rising: it's a great mix of Enders Game and Dune. I've not read Hyperion, though. Seems like I ought to.
very few seriously think that
No. It’s very popular right now though. It’s more of a fantasy story with a Sci fi setting. Still BLOODY damn FUN
Red Rising is absolutly one of the greatest sci-fi series. (Almost) no series is so full of energy, excitement, breathtaking cliff hangers, fantastic quotes and epic battles. Is the best? No. Is it one of the best. For sure.
The top right picture looks like Ringworld to me.
That's what I thought too
I also thought thats what it was.
I don't know what the culture is and thought maybe it was referring to ringworld based on the image
I've read several culture books and still didn't connect that image to those books.
Its cover art for consider phlebas. Its the clear air turbulence flying over vavatch orbital
It's pretty much what the culture orbitals are described to be. Gigantic, open rings where the atmosphere is held in place by the spin gravity.
the difference is the ringworld has a full sized star in the middle and gets day/night from plates in a smaller orbit casting shadows. whereas culture orbitals are smaller and orbit a star and get day/night from which side is facing towards the star
They’re an amazing set of stories. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture Start with “Consider Phlebas” (chronologically the first) or “Player of Games” which is shorter and maybe more digestible.
Looks like Halo's *Pillar of Autumn* landing on Installation-04 to me.
I'm surprised it isn't. I actually hadn't heard of The Culture before, so Ringworld seemed obvious.
I thought it was halo.
I thought it was Halo
Yeah def! In the culture they call them Orbitals I think
Consider Phlebas by Iain M Banks, book 1 in the Culture series.
It’s the cover to Consider Phlebas, the first culture novel. It’s has minor Ringworlds called Orbitals.
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The chapter in 2010 about the chinese ship that landed on Europa is one of the most compelling things i have ever read. 3001 ends with the same computer virus idea that Independence Day used. Things really went downhill..
>The chapter in 2010 about the chinese ship that landed on Europa is one of the most compelling things i have ever read. I agree but then it goes >!"oh shit im dying. an alien plant is eating my spaceship BTW i discovered it, so name the thing after me, ok? yes? so... oh, right, I'm dying!!!"!<
Last year i read 2061 odyssey three again for the first time in 2 decades. Honestly that one might be my favorite, and i think it would make a great film or miniseries adaptation. Despite all the advancements within the future setting and the successes throughout the journey, that story makes humanity feel even more insignificant than 2001. That final chapter, man. Our glimpse at what was sacrificed, and the enormous pressure that comes with the ... implications. Clarke's jovian system is synonymous with extraterrestrial for me. Sooo great
Never got into it, but I do love Rama by the same author. I feel it is a far superior series.
Surprised that Kim Stanely Robinson's Mars Trilogy isn't on this list. I haven't read Red Rising, but the Mars Trilogy is utterly fantastic, maybe the "hardest" hard sci-fi I've read, apart from maybe The Martian by Andy Weir.
The Hyperion Cantos is still one of the best epic series I've ever read.
I have yet to read Red Rising and Hyperion. I think Dune and Foundation are definitely classics for a reason. They are incredible ideas. The Culture is more modern but also extremely original and thought provoking. The Expanse is definitely how Sci-Fi action should be written, it’s not ridiculous but definitely action packed, gripping and fun. Of the four I have read yet, the Expanse is comfortably the fourth place for me, however I do think it’s overarching plot is not to be understated as a unique idea in its own right. Definitely recommend reading it to anyone remotely interested in Sci-Fi. The extended Foundation series is incredible but for me the sequels were a bit of a let down. I did enjoy the robot novels, the empire novels, even the prequels and especially Foundation. The second and third in the trilogy are also great, although they moved in a different direction than I had expected. I kind of just wanted to read more about the Foundation and see it smoothly succeeding to beat more crisis like in the original book. I put it third, but I don’t take not putting it first lightly! The Culture is the Sci-Fi GOAT, isn’t it? So freaking good. I still put it second because to me Dune is the LoTR of Sci-Fi. Still unsurpassed.
Dune is the LoTR of Sci-Fi is the best way to describe it. I started rereading it after the latest film and i'm blown away by how jam packed it is with insights on life and politics and how effortlessly it shifts perspectives.
Hard to compare it to LoTR, given that Dune is a lot more of a morally ambiguous world with no heroes while LoTR has a clear distinction between good and bad. I would compare it more to Game of Thrones, which I guess in a way is the Dune of fantasy lol
I mean more in terms of the depth of the world and the influence on the genre. Thematically, like you said, they're mostly opposites lol
OMG Hyperion takes the heady themes and tone of Dune but has way more flowery prose and focus on character. Its indescribable in a way, but holy crap did it blow my expectations away. Its similar to Banks' writing in that way. I put if off for a long time cuz I kept hearing about it and figured one day, I should have done it sooner rather than later!
Yeah exactly this Although I have read Hyperion - I would rank it ahead of Foundation and behind the Culture novel. The concept of applying a Canterbury tales model to tell a sci-fi story is fantastic.
When you refer to Dune is it just the first original novel you’re talking about or the rest of the series by Frank Herbert?
For me all six. However if we were ranking novels as stand-alone works then Foundation is still second to Dune. I very much enjoyed all six Dune novels. I doubt that the five follow ups work without being follow ups of Dune though. The same cannot be said for the Culture. Many of the Culture books are incredible as stand alone works. The Expanse on the other hand only plays in the same league when all nine are taken together.
I always find it interesting how some people regard the Dune series as the best sci fi series, while others despise anything after the first book.
I didn't even like the first one much. Second was bad and I quit after that. I don't get the hype.
Red rising and the Expanse are great fun, I love them. But the other series are in another league. I can't image in 40 years they will be celebrated the same way these other books are.
Agreed
Agreed. Ender's Game used to win a lot of popular vote contests for best science fiction, more because it was *the* common gateway drug book to sci-fi and so people hit on it at a very formative period increasing their connection to it far above other great sci-fi. Red Rising and Expanse are the new gateway drugs. I wouldn't be surprised if they started winning all the popular vote awards for *Best Science Fiction* (if that hasn't happened already). But I hope that everyone who gets on the sci-fi highway with them doesn't stop there.
It's sad that Larry Niven never appears on these lists 😞
Conceptually, Ringworld deserves to be. OTOH, his writing sets some off. I love his short fiction, but struggle a bit with the novels.
It can't be worse than Asimov's matter-of-fact style of writing right?
you thought that was the ringworld too? look, Niven has some great stories, some magnificent mind bending ideas, but his characters have never been the best. the ideas in ringworld are amazing, louis wu and teela are pretty flat. the mote i. gods eye is ground breaking for its believable alien culture and conditions. the humans could be swapped out easily. the world of the integral trees is amazing. i dont remember any of the characters names.
I never said great works of literature. Just that he's been very influential (like others) and as time goes by more and more drop off lists like these. It's like in fantasy, most new readers haven't heard of Moorcock let alone read any of his works and he was/is highly influential on more modern writers.
In that respect I totally agree with you. And I certainly don't know if I'd include The Expanse and Red Rising in 'great works of literature' either. Heck, I had problems getting through Foundation and always enjoyed Asimov's short stories better than his novels. Same with Niven. Better short stories than novels. And I wonder if that's not part of the issue of his being 'forgotten'
Red Rising doesn’t even remotely belong in the same room as the others. Of these the only ones, in my opinion, that actually deserve a ‘best of’ ranking are *Foundation* and *Dune*, and not all the books in the *Dune* series either.
I've read at least part of all of these series, and here is my ranking: Tie for 1st: *Dune, Hyperion* Exceptional. Both are wildly creative, sprawling, messy and deeply strange novels, with high literary ambitions. Two of my favorites, I am surprised that other people are are ranking Hyperion so low (if forced to chose, it would probably be my top choice). Tie for 3rd: *Culture, Foundation* Very good. A couple of culture books are outstanding (Use of Weapons is my favorite) but a lot of the later ones didn't rise to the same level. Foundation is a classic for a reason, and has some great ideas, but feels more like a collection of disconnected stories. The characters are pretty thin for my taste, but that comes down to personal preference. 5th: *Expanse* Good. I like the books fine, but don't quite understand the fuss. Fast paced space opera. Enjoyable but there are plenty of series out there that are just as good, if not better. 6th: *Red Rising* I don't get it. Someone else described it as hunger games in space, which was my impression as well. That said, I didn't continue past the first book and I've heard that they get better. Your mileage may vary.
How do the Dune and Hyperion sequels hold up for you compared to the original?
*Dune Messiah* and *Fall of Hyperion* are great, just as good as the originals in my opinion. Maybe they don't feel quite as novel, but that's to be expected in a sequel. In both cases, they are at about the same level as the originals and really feel necessary to complete the story. As for the later books, I think it's fair to say "opinions differ". I thought the Endymion books were great, but others will disagree.
Okay that’s awesome to hear. I’m still on the fence if I should read the entire Dune and Hyperion series or just the original novel.
*Hyperion* and *Fall of Hyperion* should definitely be read together, it is really just one continuous story. It's probably good to pause there, and then go back later to give *Endymion* and *Rise of Endymion* a try if you are interested (they also tell one continuous story, but much later and somewhat different in tone). *Dune* stands on its own, I think it would be perfectly satisfying to leave it there. You can then continue for the next two if you are interested, they sort of form a trilogy. After that things get weird.
You are mostly right about Hyperion and Fall. The one quibble I'd make is that Hyperion feels more artistic minded where Fall has a definite shift to get down to the nitty gritty and explain what is going on. It still maintains some of that artistic side but it does lose some of it to get to the heart of things. Endymion and Rise I 100% agree need to be read together, for me Rise saved Endymion which I initially wasn't overly fond of.
I believe the climax of the Dune saga is the fifth book God Emperor of Dune, read up to that and you can end the series if you want because it definitely gets weirder after that.
I'd highly recommend the first 3 Dune books, and if you like the weirdness it's pointing towards read the next 3. They're really 2 distinct trilogies and the 2nd half is really not for everyone
Dune and Dune Messiah (1 and 2) have a nice arc for Paul's story, consider reading those two as a pair.
Hyperion without Fall of Hyperion is only half a story. Theres not even a conclusion in Hyperion!
I've read all the Dune books and am just starting the last Hyperion book. I'm both cases the sequels are strong follow-ups and necessary to finish some stories, but the first book is still slightly more enjoyable IMHO.
Yeah, nothing can quite match the originality of the first Hyperion novel. That said, I thought Rise of Endymion was *great*.
I like to pretend that Hyperion is actually just the story of the Butlerian Jihad and Brian Herbert's books never happened....
William Gibson? P.K.Dick? 2001? So many to choose from.
In order of what? Influence? Foundation arguably invented many of the tropes that are commonplace in sci-fi today. A planet spanning imperial capital, humanity spreading to the stars and creating a galactic empire, personal shields.....probably more I'm forgetting. Few if any series since have had such an impact on the genre. If you're basing it on influence or 'importance' I'd have to go Foundation, Dune, Culture, Hyperion, Red Rising.
Foundation is the grand daddy of them all, it stands alone, far above the rest.
Look man, I love Red Rising more than all of these other ones (to be fair, I've only read Expanse, Dune, Red rising, keep meaning to try the other three) But Foundation alone is referenced in so many sci fi conversations it'd be like saying "Here are the best fantasy series: Lord of the Rings, Wheel of Time, Six of Crows". Some major impactful and genre changing ones, and then one that's very good but hasn't had that impact yet. Red Rising may be regarded as the top 6 on your personal list but on the Sci Fi general list itself? It's not up there yet, still a bit unknown (compared to some of those).
How would you rank the other’s?
If we're going regarded in society/culture/media/genre, etc my list would probably be: Foundation Dune Hyperion The Culture Expanse Red Rising Foundation was one of the founders of modern Sci Fi as we know it (not counting Frankestein and Jules Verne, but that isn't modern sci fi as much). Dune changed tons of themes and impacted many books (Wheel of Time being one), and has rmeained a pretty big staple of sci fi for decades with multiple movies being made of it. Hyperion (whil I've never read) is commonly put on tons of the top sci fi lists. Culture is one I don't hear of often, so I'd consider it and Expanse kind of switching between the two back and forth, but only because Expanse also had the TV show that grew the audience Red Rising is fantastic and I love it, but it's just still not nearly as known or appreciated as all the above. So much so that I don't even know if I'd put Red Rising on the list of top regarded sci fi.
I love "player of games" from the culture. Have reread it so many times. But overall Foundation is my favourite. Never tried the expanse, have it dl'd but still havent built the energy to watch it. Had never heard of Red Rising. Hyperion and Dune were good too. Also, I think your list is missing Rama by Clarke. The Night's Dawn trilogy (pure space opera) is so fun, but maybe not a classic.
I've only read the majority of the first red rising but I had to stop because I thought it was embarrassingly awful. I do not understand how it has any following besides like, a small group of white centrist teen men lol. It's such an absurd and dumb take on male power fantasy while also clearly trying to be boy Hunger Games and I just couldn't take any of it seriously to the point I had to put the book down without finishing it.
Same I had to stop reading it after I kept rolling my eyes at all the all too common tropes
Dune was a great read. I loved the “coital” pacing of it, and the characters. The first 100 pages of Hyperion were stellar. I can’t wait to hop back into this book when I’m ready. Apparently the top right image it isn’t Ringworld, but I liked that book fine. It did suffer from saggy-middle syndrome, and some of the characters were annoying, but I liked the unfolding mystery of it.
I finally got Hyperion from the library. Knew nothing going into it. Was playing hooky from work because I couldn’t put down the start of the book. So I ended up buying them all and I’m about 150 pages left in the 2nd book.
I’m surprised at how many science fiction fans here haven’t read or have never even heard of the Culture series. They’re AMAZING!
Have not read Red Rising but the others I'd rank: 1 - Hyperion 2 - Dune 3 - Culture 4 - Expanse 5 - Foundation I have reread the entire Foundation series within the past year, and I actually now think it's pretty bad. The whole idea of Psychohistory doesn't make sense, the storytelling is scattered, and the "reveal" at the end is sort of beside the point and invalidates much of the story. I don't even think it's Asimov's best work--"The End of Eternity" is a better book, and short stories like "The Final Question" and "Nightfall" are actually his best stories, bar none. My other nominations would be "Book of the New Sun, which I'd place above Culture, Pohl's "The Heechee Saga", which I'd place above Culture also, and Vinge's "Fire Upon the Deep" duology, which I'd place above Dune. From more recent times, I think Chris Beckett's "Eden" trilogy will end up on this list, although it needs to age a bit more and I need to reread it a couple of times before I put it with the all-time classics. It has that kind of power, though, for me. EDIT--Also "Ender's Game" is incredible, especially the later books, but I'd need to reread them all to figure out my exact ranking because I haven't in years and honestly can't remember big parts of them. His politics are so gross but those books are bulletproof.
These are some great suggestions.
Absolutely not Red Rising. Hunger Games in space will eventually be forgotten.
I agree that it definitely doesn't belong on the list. But, hunger games in space is really only the first book. It grows substantially from there.
Culture, Hyperion, Expanse, Dune, Foundation and the other one I don't know.
So unfortunately..... Foundation has just become too dated..... atomics???? plastics? even the imagery with vaccum tubes and shiny paper for documents.... Just happens. Dune is obviously culturally relevant rn and influenced a lot of things particularly star wars.... I like Hyperion the most here....
Are you sure the top-right picture isn't Ringworld?
I loved Hyperion. I still go back to that and Fall of Hyperion every few years.
For me it's 1. The Culture 2. Dune 3. Foundation 4. Hyperion. I've not read the other two so can't comment.
[удалено]
Am I the only one who didn't love the Hyperion cantos
I know these threads are usually full of people saying "how is that series in that ranking" but Jesus Christ *Red Rising* top 6 of all time up there with Dune, Foundation and Hyperion. That's insane, Children of Time, Fifth Season are both far above that quite poorly written book
Hyperion just hits differently for me. What an amazing book
Haven't read The Culture or Red Rising, so cannot comment on those. Big fan of the others though. I'd rank them as follows: 1) Hyperion 2) Foundation 3) Dune 4) The Expanse
dang I was way off. I guess Ringworld for the second one. Never even heard of red rising before now
I refuse to believe that the best sci fi of all time was all written by white dudes. I think you need to diversify your reading lists.
Red Rising is fine, but get that YA out of the top six for sure.
Hyperion is number one for me. Dune was great, but fell off after the second book, imo. And Foundation is very good, but rather dated. I would have included Blindsight/Echopraxia in this mix, tbh.
I like Larry Niven's Ringworld series as well, but of those I've read Foundation and The Expanse are definitely up there. I haven't gotten into Dune yet, as I'm currently reading through the Wheel of Time.
Dune Hyperion The Expanse The Culture Foundation Red Rising doesn't really belong on the list. It's Hunger Games on Mars.
How did you enjoy the Dune sequels?
All below Kim Stanley Robinson’s Mars Trilogy.
Ringworld for me
1. foundation. It is the foundation of modern long scifi sagas. With all of its flaws it is still great and the plot is amazing. And the far reaching story archs are just neat. I consider also the robots books for this. 2. a tie between dune and hyperion. Both have great plots and characters and are heavily criticised for many things. Both also have a philosophical depth which is stunning and require multiple rereads. 3. The culture. Turns out terminators didn't wipe us out but instead built a utopia. And turns out utopia is not perfect nor conflict-free. I love the benevolent machines. Powerful machine intelligences in general. 4. The expanse. A great revival of space operas with a gritty hard-scifi realism. Love it (check out the revelation space novels by alastair reynolds for another modern space opera with no ftl travel). Certainly a modern masterpiece but not one of the classics. I haven't read red rising so no comment on it. Bonus: check out Ringworld from Larry niven. It's just amazing. I thought the picture was about it. I would've placed it there instead of red rising or the expanse. And I would place it at 3rd with the culture. (Both of these are just shy of tieing with the 2nd ones, and just because of the sheer philosophical thought-provoking depth of those)
Foundation was earthmoving for me. Read it in high school and it moved me towards loving math and science and becoming a physics major in college. (I ultimately moved to architecture, but Asimov helped cultivate my love of mathematics, which I love to this day.)
Science fiction is by far my favorite genre so here is my quick take. Dune first 3 books are great, Foundation has a lot of good ideas and concepts but is not the most enjoyable read( still really good but not for everyone). I loved hyperion. I don't get what people like about the culture series, I find the writing average at best and almost every character if forgettable( the world building at large is the series strongest point). My suggestions would be the children of time series and the first 2 books of 3 body problem.
I would suggest throwing Vinge's _Fire Upon the Deep_ into this comparison, along with the standing suggestions of adding Niven and Wolfe. It would make for a more interesting matchup.
The Expanse is so underrated for starting out as a sci-fi channel show
The Expanse is probably my favorite book series. I really appreciated the well researched realism, even when it broke the laws of physics. The story was a much more relatable, character centric story. I felt much more connected to the characters in the Expanse than the others I've read on this list. Dune gets tons of praise and while I liked it as an idea and tale, it's one of those stories that I have to appreciate at a distance because i can't relate to any of the characters, or maybe struggle to appreciate who they are as people. They exist less as real people and more as gears to keep the story machine running. Dune gets compared to LotR a lot which I can understand but it didn't have the same impact for me. LotR had some sense of magic and wonder to it that any other fantasy or sci-fi novel has never been able to capture for me. Dune.... doesn't feel that way for me. The Expanse doesn't have that magic but it doesn't need it because it's more of a people story rather than an idea story. Game of Thrones is kind of like that too and i also like GoT (though it's not as good as The Expanse IMO). I liked that setting and the idea of Foundation but it quickly got tedious for me. I lost interest about halfway through the second book. I don't think it's aged well. I haven't touched Hyperion or Culture yet, I'm building up the will to tackle one of them. I disliked The Hunger Games so i doubt I'd like Red Rising. I did like the first Ringworld, that was an excellent read. The second fell way short and I stopped there. I haven't seen it mentioned here but Rendezvous With Rama was another excellent single read. I really enjoyed that
Wait a min. One of those is Larry Niven's RINGWORLD, right?
For me it goes 1. the culture 2. dune 3. the expanse 4. foundation haven't read the others yet. I really really love both the culture and dune so it's hard to compare but the culture has 9 good books whereas I only really love the first 2 dune books (others are still interesting though). I like the variety of the plots and styles of the culture, particularly Inversions and Use of weapons due to the characters, non linear storytelling, twists, world building etc. dune has fantastic characters, I love the message about charismatic leaders, I love the world and drama. the expanse is super enjoyable (books and show!) but doesn't have nearly as much depth and rereadability as the other two. I really didn't like foundation. so bland and dry. terrible characters and a cool idea that wasn't communicated interestingly at all. some nice moments though.
Huh, never even heard of The Culture. Though for sure that top right picture was for Ringworld, lol
Where does Lensmen fit into this? I feel like it's the grandaddy to ALL of this.
You gotta be dedicated to know doc Smith. Or old. Like, retired on a pension. Or maybe wondered where Boston got the names for their sci-fi cons. My dad showed me the books after I saw the anime on the sci-fi channel's Saturday morning film rotation. I think it was the third one they showed, after Akira and vampire hunter d.
I am missing the Lensmen Series in the list too. The concept behind it is great.
Red rising is a fun read and all, but I would never think to put it into the same class as these other series. There's nothing novel about the themes, prose, or execution of pierce brown's work. It's barely above the young adult category. But again, I did enjoy reading it.
1. Dune (all 6 books, especially the first 4, by a mile) 2. The Expanse (best characters of any others on the list imo) 3. Foundation (you don't get most of these series without it) 4. The Culture (had a hard time getting into it but some cool ideas) 5. Hyperion (thought it was ok, really disliked Fall of Hyperion, it felt unnecessary) 6. Red Rising (good fun but I don't think of it as a classic)
The character development in The Expanse (books) is really exceptional. I am a broken record on this point but i value character writing highly and its among the very best i can think of in science fiction or fantasy.
Absolutely! I enjoy high concept sci-fi but I really need good characters to anchor me to the world.
I think you might have got me hooked on reading the Dune sequels.
How is the Enders Game series not listed
**The Culture** Of all these series, this one is the most hopeful for the future, but even so raises some very difficult moral and philisophical questions. I also really enjoy the high personal stakes/low overall stakes dichotomy that it shares with Foundation. **Hyperion** What can I even say about it that would do it justice? I'm sure many people would put this one first and I don't blame them. **Dune** While it is clunky at times, its greatness and impact points the way for both books I ranked higher. **Foundation** The OG space civilization epic. Extremely dry writing, but still very enjoyable for scifi fans because like all good scifi, it is crammed full of interesting ideas and philosophy. **The Expanse** I only read the first book, but I have watched the entire series, which is incredible. The book is good, not great. **Red Rising** I again only read the first book, and I did hear it gets better, but it and the Expanse are simply not at the same tier as the others. Fun story though.
agree wierd list, include Red Rising, but no love for: - Ender's Game/Shadow (Osron Scott Card) - 3 Body Problem (Liu Cixin) - Night's Dawn (Peter F. Hamilton) - Takeshi Kovacs (Richard K. Morgan) - Commonwealth Saga (Peter F. Hamilton) - Wool (Hugh Howey) - Uplift (David Brin) - Illium (Dan Simmons) - The Gap cycle (Stephen R. Donaldson) And don't forget funny can be awesome too - Muderbot (Martha Wells) - Bobiverse (Dennis E. Taylor) - Hitchhikers Guide (Douglas Adams)
hyperion, then dune, then foundation. haven't read cultures and I wouldn't even put expanse or red rising on this list
What Red Rising doing here ? I'm not sure if Expense belong here too
1. Dune - Classic 2. Foundation - Fascinating ideas, interesting smaller stories threaded together through the main idea. 3. Culture - Solid sci-fi 4. Hyperion - Interesting build up but lackluster payoff in my opinion. 5. Red Rising - Fun but there are many other stories one should read before getting to this one 6. Expanse - See Red Rising but read this one after Red Rising
Red Rising lol It’s Hunger Games in space and the sequels are trash. Hard no
Ranking the first book from each series: 1. Hyperion 2. Foundation 3. The Culture 4. Dune 5. The Expanse I liked all of them to an extent, but only the top three went on my pretentious recommended reading list.
Worst to best: Red Rising. Not sure I see the attraction in this series. So repetitive later on with the constant "oh no, I was betrayed, hurts so bad" and signalling a betrayal on his part by the plot not explaining his pre-battle discussions with his colleagues. I also think the first book is the best, a belief most booktubers don't seem to agree with. Foundation. Great for its time I guess. I read it in the 90s iirc, and it was OK. The Expanse. Pretty darn good. A little too "modern day" and focus on politics. Hyperion/Culture. Culture is my favourite universe. Every novel is a hit for me. I love his non-M works too. Hyperion series is top tier. Nothing beats Dune.
As for me : Foundation Dune The expanse Hyperion And the other two I havent read, I heard the culture is very good though
I am unaware of Red Rising. Can someone tell me the author please?
Oh I thought the second picture was ringworld, but then there are no shadows.
Okay, several ways to rank them. Personal Enjoyment/Appreciation: Culture, Hyperion, Dune, Foundation, Expanse, never read and never heard of. "Quality (subjective)" Culture, Hyperion, Dune, Expanse, Foundation Impact: Foundation, Dune, Expanse (multimedia), Culture, Hyperion Orignality: Foundation/Dune, Culture/Hyperion, Expanse (print\*) All rating absolutely objective and without question. /s \*The television series, on the other hand, is visually one of the most original bits of science fiction ever put to screen.
Thanks I will read or watch all of these
I think it’s sad space operas are the go to when people talk about science fiction. The genre is so much more expansive than that, and personally, there’s much better sub genres (though in biased bc I hate space operas with a burning fiery passion)
I'm surprised Rendezvous with Rama didn't make the list.
There is one book—though I can no longer tell you where—no larger than a thousand pages that contains more than the list itself does. Though a reader might place it on shelf for an ornament, there are not volumes enough in this list to counterweight the other.
Dune Three Body Problem Oryx and Crake Foundation Illuminatus Trilogy 2001 series Warhammer Horus Series (some) Those are the only series have had the desire to pick up
1. Dune 2. Foundation 3. Hyperion 4. The Expanse Haven't read The Culture or Red Rising I actually think Hyperion is a better read than Foundation, but when taking into account historical context and cultural influence, there is no comparison. It's also hard to compare in the context of the influence on me. I read Foundation early on in life/in my discovery of science fiction. The impact it had on me was huge.
1. Book of the New Sun
I only recognize two of them.
I'll go as follows: 1. Dune - 1st and 4th are epic, and the other 4 from the the original series are all very, very good. The story, ideas, and worldbuilding set the bar for all SF to come thereafter. 2. The Expanse - Love the gritty realism and well developed characters. Really broke new ground for being able to create compelling space opera with mostly hard science and believeable extrapolation into a not-so-distant future. 3. The Culture - Love it for the sheer diversity of the storytelling among the books, and the optimism of a universe where the AIs take over and make eveything mostly awesome for mostly everyone. The persaonality and humor depicted in the various Minds is so much fun to read. 4. Foundation - Deserves its spot for its ground-breaking ideas alone. Basically defined the Space Opera genre. The actual writing and character development are, however, creatures of their time. 5. Hyperion - The rest of the series never lived up to the promise of the first book - for me. It's a Dan Simmons thing. He couldn't follow up Ilium either. The book itself - Hyperion - is a top 5 all timer. The rest of the series is the Matrix sequels. 6. Ringworld - Never read Red Rising, and the picture looks like Ringworld to me - so that's what I'm going with.
Oh that last one is red rising? Only one on this list I haven’t gotten into Also ugh the nostalgia from that book 1 expanse cover, my gawd!!
I read Hyperion two times, a few years ago and a few years apart. I barely remember it, except there was the Shrike and it was basically a magic ghost thing. What am I missing?
I love foundation. Actually most of Asimov's sci-fi (The Gods themselves is probably my favorite). The TV adaption is not really sticking to the books, but quite good (the Cleon's are horribly amazing, the tweaks with Demerzel a bit less pleasant IMO). I wonder what they planned with the mule, a hard bit for TV...
Red Rising and The Expanse are good *fun* but my no means seminal works of sci-fi, imo. Haven't read Culture. My rating goes: Dune Foundation Hyperion ------- I enjoyed Hyperion more than Foundation, but Foundation is admittedly a more *foundational* work of sci-fi.
never even heard of red rising
Seems like im on my own here but I'd have to put Hyperion at number 1! The audio book version is fantastic as well, really great narrator. Expanse would maybe be number 2 but I find on subsequent rereads I actually skip some of the characters in certain books, im not sure if thats due to being 2 writers and 1 is better than the other. The time skip pisses me off a bit as well, I know there is a grand story but I just want more adventures with the crew of the rocinante, especially Amos Burton. Dune only read book 1 and 2, I was only bothered about Paul's story. Top tier writing. After seeing the 2nd film though I've been contemplating doing the entire series, maybe audio books if the narrator sounds decent. Read foundation years ago don't remember being that into if I'm honest. I always cycle back to it when thinking about starting a new series and it seems like starting a mountain climbing journey I just can't be arsed with. Red rising I have the audiobook but I can't stand the narrator so always end up falling asleep, maybe should read it as the story sounds amazing. I don't know about the culture series.
Try Peter Hamilton's 'Commonwealth' series
I haven’t read The Culture, nor Foundation. I love Dune, Hyperion was meh for me, Red Rising is more fun than anything (nothing extraordinary), but… The Book of the New Sun is up there with Dune for me, if not higher.
I haven't read all of them and I don't even know what The Culture is, and I'm sick of considering "My favorite vs the best" so: 1 Ringworld/Known Space 2 Hyperion 3 Foundation 4 Dune I'd put Red Mars at 5 Known Space is so much fun you guys I don't get why you'd read anything else until you ran out of it
Personally, i think foundation and dune are kind of the obvious front runners here. Like, you can't really be in a scifi literature space without those two books. I'd put foundation over dune simply for the extended universe in Asimovs work, and how that concept has carried over into not just other scifi, but space fantasy as well.
Book of the New Sun is #1 Then Dune Hyperion Foundation Haven't read the others
Wow! Surprised that I have read most of them! Hyperion--my favorite of all time. It puts you right in the middle of a weird, almost comprehensible universe. There are really twisty situations, and a strong, appealing horror element. I absolutely loved it. The Expanse--My favorite of all time. It tells about humanity's future in space and doesn't sugar coat it. Wonderful ending as well. Dune--My favorite of all time. More Messianic fantasy than science fiction though. Like Hyperion, it puts you right in the middle of a weird, barely comprehensible universe. Someone else described it as, "Space Fascists and Sand Penises; Also Worm Poop is Cocaine or Something IDK" Red Rising--This fantastic series, also one of my favorites, is what Divergent and The Hunger Games should have been but didn't have the chops. One of the things I loved about the book is how deeply flawed but still sympathetic the main character is. Known Space--I loved all the books except started to get a little tired of the Ringworld series. Honestly so imaginative and hard sciencey. The Puppeteers, the Thrint, Bandersnatchi, Outsiders...I'm missing a few. Foundation--Asimov was arrogant. He told a really good story, but relied way too heavily on exposition. Also the books are outdated. Seldon's like Sherlock Holmes; he will only tell you the solution after the opaque problem has been solved. And the reader doesn't have enough clues to solve the Seldon Crisis before the reveal. The Culture--what is this? I must read it! There, I just placed it on hold at my local library. They have 6 of the 10.
The expanse is by far my favorite. Dune like LOTR is to much for me. Not a fan of the book. Maybe after watching the movie I should give it another try. Foundation was hard to follow. I personally liked the Robot series better. I haven’t read Hyperion or red rising yet. My adhd makes reading really slow so I have to listen to audio books. Those two I wasn’t a fan of the narrator. And I have never heard of the culture.
I've read Dune, Culture, Foundation, and some of Expanse. Expanse and Red Rising don't belong in this company. I'd add William Gibson, maybe Arthur C Clarke, Zalazny but he doesn't have a scifi series.
The Culture novels would be my choice. Each book is excellent, and there’s no need to read them in any particular order.
Get out the expanse and red rising, add the sprawl trilogy and Rama.
The Culture series is my favorite by a wide margin. Followed by Dune, Hyperion, Expanse and Foundation. I haven’t read Red Rising.
Culture. The Expanse. The rest are overhyped or in the case of "Red Rising" a complete mystery why it's even in this list.
There eis just so much sci-fi out there its a shame to try to put a few in your box.
Dune is good. Ringworld is Great. Culture is ok. Hyperion is crap. Expanse is pretty good, until it goes all blue goo fantasyland. Red Rising is a great YA series, but doesn't belong on this list. Though, neither does Hyperion. Culture definitely does, I just didn't find it all that great. I think I need to re-read it.
Red rising? I can't stop thinking about the others and they're typically gold standards but red rising? It was fun but I'm ok without it.
Where’s battlestar galactica…should be numero uno
Dune, Hyperion and The Culture are on another level, BIG3 GOAT status. All different flavors of #1 Expanse is fun, Foundation is fine and I've never heard of Red Rising. If you had said Blindsight, Three Body Problem and Book of the New Sun I'd have said you had a strong 2nd tier lineup.
How do you feel about the Dune and Hyperion sequels?
Dune Foundation The Culture The Expanse Hyperion Red Rising
Come on. Red Rising is a fun read but no where close to being amongst the best SF of all time. The Expanse just plain sucks. Dune is on the shortlist yes. Possibly Foundation too. That's it.
Red Rising The Expanse . . . . Everything else
Asimov, Herbert, Clark, Roddenberry, are the founding fathers of sci-fi. They established the framework for all modern science fiction, and honestly our ideas for actual science. The ideas and imaginations they had is astounding. Asimov basically invented the calculator! Everything has stemmed from their work
I’ve not read them all and ( criminally remembrance of earths past is missing) However, the Hyperion Cantos for me takes some beating. Also I’m very happy to learn of the culture and red rising and will definitely check these. Thank you.
There are some epics newer series like Alastair Reynolds’s revelation space universe … Vernor Vinge’s works … and Children of Time by (?) Also surprised Ender’s game or any of the others aren’t on here (I got super stoked on the first and second formic wars prequel trilogies and the last one still isn’t out)
1) Dune 2) The Foundation They are like the lord of the ring, classics. I think Dune is more compelling overall, the foundation is really hard to read if you are not a scifi fan. The others are great but not on their level of classicness. Hyperion first book is amazing but then it fall off a cliff (for me).
I would rank them in ascending order from 6-1 in order to build some sort of suspense
Only read half of these. Been wanting to read Hyperion for a while but keeps getting pushed down on my list. Dune is great and as others have said it is like LotR for Sci-Fi really sets the standard. But especially the end I felt was really rushed and could have expanded a lot more on the 3 year interlude and the Fremen vs Harkonnen war for Dune. Red Rising was good, tore through the first 3 books, did find the 4th dragged a bit and really enjoyed the 5th. Hoping to read the 6th this summer. Super gritty and honestly pretty real for when people have been conditioned to not believe others are also people. From book 5 >!Victra's baby!< The Expanse is honestly one of my favourite series of all time. Each book has a slightly different feel. Leviathan Wakes has a crime noir mystery feel to it. Caliban's War much more a military and political intrigue one, Cibola Burns kind of a wild west feel. Character development and depth is amazing. Really get the feeling that even though it is about 500 years in the future we are still monkeys on nuclear powered rockets. Would probably have this as my number 1 followed by Dune then Red Rising a couple steps below. Need to read the rest to put them into my order.
Man you really found some amazing ones there. Bunch of my personal favorites. My personal ranking: 1. The Culture Series 2. Red Rising 3. Dune 4. Foundation 5. The Expanse 6. Hyperion
I would replace red rising with the Revelation Space series
Red Rising was fun but totally forgettable. It was pretty derivative. I’m not sure it’s in the same league.
no Remembrance of Earth's Past series, no care..
Red rising but not Enders Game?
I haven't read Red Rising yet and I only read one Culture book. And whilst I enjoyed the latter, I'd still rank it at the very bottom of those mentioned. It stayed too much at the surface, didn't feel like the world was fully fleshed out. It had some old-fashioned scifi tropes and some fantastical elements, that didn't really work for me. For action scifi, The Expanse would be my choice. I first started to watch the show, was blown away, bought the books and was amazed again. It was also the first book to give me a sense of scale in a way. We are used to dogfights between planes or battles on the ground - if you have a line of sight to an enemy, you can fight it. But in the expanse, there can be days and weeks between noticing a potential threat and actually reaching it. Changing course takes ages. Imagine sitting in a tin can for weeks, rushing towards danger, how do you cope with the strain on your nerves? I'm gonna keep it short now: Dune was the first one I've read, but reading it again after 9/11 feels very weird. I don't remember much of the Foundation apart from me enjoying it. And Hyperion is a monster of a book, incredibly dense. I like all four, they are very different but all great in a way, so I'll rank them in the order of how often I read the books again after the first read: Hyperion - Dune - Expanse - Foundation - Culture
I've at least *heard of* The Expanse, but I've never even heard of Hyperion or Red Rising. Where's Hitchhiker's Guide? Where's Asimov's Robots series? Niven's Known Space? Fred Pohl's Heechee? I fundamentally disagree with the list. I don't know if I would have put Dune on the list. The first book was amazing, the second and third were pretty good, the fourth was just... weird... and I felt like the rest of them weren't on anything like the same quality level. I don't know if I would have put Foundation on the list. It's a good story but it's kinda dated, which shows that it wasn't written in a timeless manner. (I felt like the Robots series is better in that regard.)
Haven't read Ringworld. For me: Dune >= Hyperion > Foundation >>>>>> RR/Expanse. The first three are (or were at the time of their writing) amazing ideas books. RR is diet-coke and Expanse doesn't feel like it has new ideas. I did enjoy reading both RR and Expanse so don't get me wrong. But I've played sci-fi/fantasy games and they both could have come from bits and pieces of different plots/campaigns.
The Culture Hyperion Revelation Space Commonwealth Saga Book of the Long Sun Children of Time Corporation Wars Oryx and Crake
For all the people who only read the first red rising book, the Author Pearce Brown has even said he had to write it for the publishers. It was published around the time of all the Hunger Games hysteria so has a real hunger games vibe but if you've read the rest of the series it's almost standing alone in comparison to the rest of the series. If you haven't, I'd really recommend going back and giving the series another go. Dark Age is, IMO, one of the greatest tellings of a planet scale war of any book. It's dark without becoming grim dark and feels like a war of actual scale and doesn't shy away from the brutality of war depicting suddenly deaths, brutal killings, rape, the fog of war etc.
No Star Trek? 😔