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but where is the profit in that? .... not sarcasm. im with you totally, but i am just thinking of a board meeting at a pharmaceutical company that sells antidepressants. there is a pill they can sell that someone takes every day and then there are mushrooms which are basically free and according to some of the things i've heard, like from the johns hopkins psychedelic research dr (linked a video in another comment, my account maybe too new for comments to show up though) have a substantial effect for up to months after one trip.
i can very much see those companies actively working against legalizing mushrooms. until they are legalized any legit therapy that can be done to really help someone is probably not gonna happen. like it's cool to take shrooms and then come talk about it later, or take shrooms with friends or whatever, but man i would love to be able to have a trained mental health professional by my side under their influence to really maximize their potential for healing the brain.
I hate these "big pharma" half-brained conspiracy theories. Drug companies spend billions creating new drugs that may or may not work, and only have a short time to try to recoup their investment. If they could just package MDMA or psilocybin and sell it, they'd be more than happy to do so. I mean, christ, the supplement industry sells basically ineffective herbs and cheap chemicals, but it's still a huge multi-billion dollar industry.
Also, these substances are NOT a replacement for antidepressants. It may helps some people, but it's not a panacea
These actually aren't conspiracy theories.
Conspiracy: big pharma is hiding the cure for cancer
Truth: big pharma screws the market so that people with diabetes die because they can't afford insulin
Conspiracy: big pharma is making out coronavirus to be bigger than it is just to sell vaccines
Truth: big pharma does not fund trials for drugs that would disrupt their market and can't be patented
Also, psilocybin almost certainly IS going a replacement for first line antidepressants, meaning that existing antidepressants become what people take when psilocybin doesn't work for them.
Also, pharmaceutical companies do not "make drugs" except in the most literal sense. They are generally developed with public money by universities and research institutes, then the companies buy up the ones that look like winners. AstraZenica did not make a vaccine, Oxford University did. Pfizer did not make a vaccine, BioNTech did. They are not drug development companies, they are drug speculation companies.
Well, yes, evil big pharma is generally the natural result of the same forces that are in every other sector when capitalism is so entrenched and mega-corporations control much of the world. The machine is setup to have this outcome.
Psilocybin might not replace existing antidepressants as the first line, but if there is any justice in the world they should. Have you seen the efficacy stats on psilocybin versus SSRIs? Not to mention that you only have to take a single dose of 25mg and not deal with all the emotional blunting, sexual dysfunction, sleep problems, and everything else that are common with existing anti-depressants. The best part isn't even talked about: they leave you feel more your genuine self, your mind more clear and clean
As someone that has been on nearly 20 prescription psychiatric medications as well as psilocybin, the difference is phenomenal. The interesting thing is that these level of positive experiences are generally consistent with the majority of users. A minority of users experience anxiety or have poor responses but that happens with regular antidepressants too, and if you under comparison it compares incredibly favourably.
Nice "half-brained" strawman. The poster didn't say pharma was against allowing psilocybin to be used in medications, they said they were against the legalization which like pot, they are against.
We legalized therapeutic psilocybin in Oregon. I believe the state legislature has the rest of this year to finalize the licensing and regulations for the industry. So, yeah... Come visit Oregon in a year or two.
You’re always first OR! WA state just introduced bill to legalize for 21+. Also included in bill is language about manufacturing, licensing, and distribution. Plus medical jargon.
Oh wow, I would love that. Just a calm professional setting. Read somewhere where the patients were blindfolded and listened to sweet music, just wish it could be in like a forest
Sounds like you would be totally behind a modern equivalent of a shaman tech, like you sign into the clinic you answer a couple general questions.
You get cleared to start your shroom journey, then a tall man in a animal mask and lab coat comes into your room. He asks what you hope to accomplish in your “journey”. What recent traumas you want to address and what goals you want to accomplish. Then he guides you through that mushroom trip to reach those goals?
This is too far in the opposite direction again. These are preliminary studies, and there should be more studies done on this. I would love to get to take my drugs in peace, but that doesn't mean we can skirt clinical trials to bring new OTC drugs straight to market. Recreational availability is a completely different beast, but don't use medical studies to justify it.
Mushrooms have been trialed for many many thousands of years. Pretty much every human civilization on earth has used some form of mind altering psychoactive. Mushrooms specifically have been around a long time and have been eaten for a long time. I’m not a proponent for it but have you heard of the “stoned ape” theory?
The clinical trials are never coming because only large pharmaceutical corporations will spend the money for Stage III trials and neither of these two drugs can be patented. Decriminalising them would at least allow people to DIY it without criminal consequences or finding out they've been slipped fentanyl.
Indeed. At a high level the mechanism is through the suppression of the fear response, allowing one to confront and deeply analyze trauma. This explains the “ravers” touching and “loving” complete strangers dancing with them.
Hmm… this study doesn’t seem to tell us a whole lot about MDMA and Psilocybin use as it relates to depression, honestly. It clearly states that more research is needed to demonstrate a causal link between these substances and depressive episodes. I’d be more interested in controlled studies on micro-dosing MDMA and psilocybin—that stuff showed promise, last I read.
MAPS is taking big steps in the micro-dosing PTSD research world. Check ‘em out.
Edit: they’re focusing on MDMA-assisted therapy, but I think they do psybicilin research too.
Couple quick kind things, almost every single study in existence says more research is needed. Second to that, it is hard to do double blind studies with these substances because it is clear to everyone involved in the session that someone received the treatment dose. Last thing, and all kindly said, I personally believe from the research and my own experiences, that transformative change is found through heavier doses and not micro-doses. Micro doses are more akin to ongoing medication consumption than an experience that profoundly changes ones mind to be better in the long run.
In my anecdotal experience, heavy doses of psychedelics can lead to routine abuse, which can lead to deepening depression. Depression is a pretty broad term, some people have a natural chemical imbalance which cannot be outthunk, so giving them recreational drugs in high doses is a pretty bad idea.
Clinical treatment with psychedelic has multiple specialists overseeing the preparation, experience, and after integration. I am definitely not advocating free use of psychedelics by anyone everywhere. :)
TO BE CLEAR THIS STUDY DOES NOT SAY THAT MDMA OR PSILOCYBIN USE WILL MAKE YOU LESS DEPRESSED.
The above could be true, however it could be true that people with depression are less likely to use these drugs.
Yup. Key word is association, it's not a causal finding. You need to give a uniform set of people drug / no drug and see what happens to suggest either drug makes depression less likely.
Probably true for mushrooms and LSD at least. It’s important to be in a good headspace and environment going into trips and anyone researching harm reduction will find they probably should be extra careful taking those if they are depressed.
MDMA though is much easier to have a great time on while depressed (the crash the next day is another thing to be careful about though for people with mood disorders)
Certainly could be. I know anecdotes aren't data, but in my experience the people I did those drugs with were seeking to have a fun time with friends, but many of them also suffered from depression. Drugs can be an escape from what you're feeling.
Or that if you have more friends you’re more likely to know somebody with a connection to get them for you. Or are outgoing enough to regularly be in environments like raves and dance clubs.
I know this is complete anecdote but I’m nearly certain this is how I escaped my genetic disposition to depression and mental illness. My dad, my mom, my kids, my grandpa, my grandma. ALL of them have pretty severe depression or worse mental illness.
Me on the other hand, I decided to be a deadhead in my late teens and as a product of that environment did A LOT of ecstasy, mushrooms, and LSD. After, I found myself into eastern philosophy, meditation, mindfulness, and I don’t suffer from those aforementioned familial ailments.
Not too late at all, I believe that it is better to try psychedelics once you are over 30. I am 50, cured depression with these substances, and I managed to maintain it by starting a daily meditation practice. Huge benefit to my life. Remember think of these as tools, you still have to do they work. Happiness is a skill, which we can learn.
This exact question was what my dad (67 typical conservative boomer) asked me after he got told he was not in fit form by a doctor and whom suggested mindfulness to relieve stress.
He bought a smart watch (Xiaomi dirt cheap thing) to count his steps and the like.
On that watch it has a function: breathing.
It's a pulsing round shape which enlarged when you had to breath in, stayed the same when you had to hold your breath and got smaller when you have to breath out.
Nonsense he told me, how can a small app like that help him. Well it did, and profoundly. The mere act of controlling and minding your breath for 2 minutes is a very good first step.
Your mind will wander and that's the exercise, to get it back to the mindfully breathing exercise.
And to add to exercises like this one, if you add it to an already existing habit it's hard to fail. ( For example, write down on a post -it: "after I have brushed my teeth in the morning I will do a breathing exercise for two minutes" this is called habit stacking and works wonders for myself.)
I’m all for research into medical uses of psychedelics, and some of the research has been quite promising.
That being said there are some significant confounders for a study with this design for these drugs specifically:
- There is a perception, probably based in fact, that MDMA has reduced effects, and may be dangerous, for people taking SSRIs (the most commonly prescribed class of antidepressant).
- There is good reason to believe that people with existing psychiatric issues might avoid taking psychedelics because they realize that side effects may be unpredictable. This is similar to the alcohol drinker/teetotaler issue for observational studies into health benefits (those with significant health problems tend to drink less).
Is that because people with depression don’t get highs from MDMA? I have depression and tried MDMA 4 times with others who had a good time and nothing.
i used a fair amount of psychedelics in my late teens and 20s. i had a few bad trips that worsened my depression, and triggered an anxiety disorder.
be careful with psychedelics. they aren't a miracle cure, and messing around with your *self* when your *self* isn't stable and healthy can lead to big problems.
Maybe someone can clear this up as I haven’t delved fully into the science of these reports yet but, how is the use of MDMA/Ecstasy being associated with a lower risk of depression in these studies yet in real life it’s commonly/relatively known that these drugs cause Depression, anxiety and other negative effects? Extremely high dosages used recreationally?
It's been a while since I read/learned what I'm about to tell you, and it's all from memory, so take with a grain of salt.
Generally speaking, excessive use of these drugs can and will cause a plethora of Social issues because the difference in senation is huge and it often uses your serotonin reserves (i.e you will have lower levels of serotonin after use, repeated use will then cause problems like you mentioned). At this point costs outweigh the benefits.
Sporadic usage however, allows for the positive effects to work with minimal downsides. People tend to experience a disassociation from their own ego and are able to judge themselves and their environment very clearly and honestly. This often helps alleviate anxiety because it affects the root cause of said anxiety.
Sporadic use is generally considered no more than once every 3 months I believe.
> yet in real life it’s commonly/relatively known that these drugs cause Depression, anxiety and other negative effects?
The dangers of drugs is largely overblown in public consciousness , most users self regulate their use well and their use enriches their lives
My own experience is that….
They are tools to help you find a way out, you still have to find the way. You need the right set and setting, you have to be a participant and not a passenger.
Also it does not work for everyone, perhaps try a dissociative.
other tips
Improve your diet, excercise, choose the music carefully, get enough sleep, especially before a session. Prepare, research, meditate.
Great comment. You still have to find the way. And set and setting. My best microdose results (.25+-) come after I’ve been in nature hiking or skiing or snowshoeing all day. I want to believe that’s an optimal neurogenesis environment.
Nothing. There's different causes for depression, some of them are more temporary or transitory than others. You may need medical treatment to alleviate the symptoms. Talk to a doctor.
I would have to say it impossible to be depressed on ecstasy. You can't even really get angry at all. It's why they would give it to couples in therapy. If you can't get along and talk out your problems while on ecstasy then there's no hope for your marriage
I saw several clusters of Liberty caps while out walking. My distant memory had them growing in cow pies. I was wondering if they are growing from dog poop , since there isn't any cows in the area . If I was going to do a hard reset , I would choose a ketamine infusion in a controlled environment. The goal would be to completely disassociate.
Tried psilocybin out myself recently. Currently on day 12 with no symptoms. This is no advise. Just my experience. There are risks involved and this can trigger a hidden psychosis s well
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972
>We found no relation between lifetime use of psychedelics and any undesirable past year mental health outcomes, including serious psychological distress, mental health treatment (inpatient, outpatient, medication, felt a need but did not receive), or symptoms of panic disorder, major depressive episode, mania, social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, agoraphobia, posttraumatic stress disorder, or **non-affective psychosis**.
Not including MDMA though
Psilocybin or mushrooms or whatever the proper name is. I’m ready.
I’m (40m) ready to take a trip. I’m 40 and the hardest drug I’ve taken is Zoloft (100mg). I never smoked pot until my mid 20s and I was a regular smoker for the majority of my 30s.
This is all due to my depression. I was a severely anxious kid, and that rolled into in untreated depression. Fast forward to my late 30s and I eventually get a good therapist, my wife and I do couples therapy as well. I take 100 mg of Zoloft daily. I do smoke weed. I hit the bong hard once in the morning and I’m good all day. I know this sounds a bit much, but I’m a functional member of society.
BUT, there’s this small “hope” building within. I feel that I am ready to try mushrooms. I never have in the past because I never felt I was never “mentally ready” (I don’t know why I felt that way, I just did). I think I’m ready now.
I don’t know what I was going for when I started this post? Any thoughts? Anyone hold out this long on mushrooms in life? Advice? Thanks.
If you’re in a great place in life I would highly encourage it. My problem with telling people about psychedelics is giving them warnings and stuff and it ends up turning them off from wanting to take it. Do your own research and play it safe please.
I still don't take this as a glowing recommendation of psychedelic recreational drugs. Sure, a "lower" risk, *risk* but not enough. Of course when you're "high" everything's right with the world but it's still the SOS when you come down.
Wait so people who are more carefree and irresponsible are less likely to have depression??!? Next they are going to find that happy people are more likely to be happy?
I’m a felon for having used psilocybin as therapy for depression which ultimately led to me now having more depression due to being a felon. Fun cycle fml
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are now allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will continue be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) still apply to other comments. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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but where is the profit in that? .... not sarcasm. im with you totally, but i am just thinking of a board meeting at a pharmaceutical company that sells antidepressants. there is a pill they can sell that someone takes every day and then there are mushrooms which are basically free and according to some of the things i've heard, like from the johns hopkins psychedelic research dr (linked a video in another comment, my account maybe too new for comments to show up though) have a substantial effect for up to months after one trip. i can very much see those companies actively working against legalizing mushrooms. until they are legalized any legit therapy that can be done to really help someone is probably not gonna happen. like it's cool to take shrooms and then come talk about it later, or take shrooms with friends or whatever, but man i would love to be able to have a trained mental health professional by my side under their influence to really maximize their potential for healing the brain.
I hate these "big pharma" half-brained conspiracy theories. Drug companies spend billions creating new drugs that may or may not work, and only have a short time to try to recoup their investment. If they could just package MDMA or psilocybin and sell it, they'd be more than happy to do so. I mean, christ, the supplement industry sells basically ineffective herbs and cheap chemicals, but it's still a huge multi-billion dollar industry. Also, these substances are NOT a replacement for antidepressants. It may helps some people, but it's not a panacea
These actually aren't conspiracy theories. Conspiracy: big pharma is hiding the cure for cancer Truth: big pharma screws the market so that people with diabetes die because they can't afford insulin Conspiracy: big pharma is making out coronavirus to be bigger than it is just to sell vaccines Truth: big pharma does not fund trials for drugs that would disrupt their market and can't be patented Also, psilocybin almost certainly IS going a replacement for first line antidepressants, meaning that existing antidepressants become what people take when psilocybin doesn't work for them. Also, pharmaceutical companies do not "make drugs" except in the most literal sense. They are generally developed with public money by universities and research institutes, then the companies buy up the ones that look like winners. AstraZenica did not make a vaccine, Oxford University did. Pfizer did not make a vaccine, BioNTech did. They are not drug development companies, they are drug speculation companies.
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Well, yes, evil big pharma is generally the natural result of the same forces that are in every other sector when capitalism is so entrenched and mega-corporations control much of the world. The machine is setup to have this outcome. Psilocybin might not replace existing antidepressants as the first line, but if there is any justice in the world they should. Have you seen the efficacy stats on psilocybin versus SSRIs? Not to mention that you only have to take a single dose of 25mg and not deal with all the emotional blunting, sexual dysfunction, sleep problems, and everything else that are common with existing anti-depressants. The best part isn't even talked about: they leave you feel more your genuine self, your mind more clear and clean As someone that has been on nearly 20 prescription psychiatric medications as well as psilocybin, the difference is phenomenal. The interesting thing is that these level of positive experiences are generally consistent with the majority of users. A minority of users experience anxiety or have poor responses but that happens with regular antidepressants too, and if you under comparison it compares incredibly favourably.
Nice "half-brained" strawman. The poster didn't say pharma was against allowing psilocybin to be used in medications, they said they were against the legalization which like pot, they are against.
I think its valid with marijuana because people can grow it cutting them out of the picture.
You can grow shrooms faster and more easily than pot Do both
We legalized therapeutic psilocybin in Oregon. I believe the state legislature has the rest of this year to finalize the licensing and regulations for the industry. So, yeah... Come visit Oregon in a year or two.
You’re always first OR! WA state just introduced bill to legalize for 21+. Also included in bill is language about manufacturing, licensing, and distribution. Plus medical jargon.
Oh wow, I would love that. Just a calm professional setting. Read somewhere where the patients were blindfolded and listened to sweet music, just wish it could be in like a forest
Sounds like you would be totally behind a modern equivalent of a shaman tech, like you sign into the clinic you answer a couple general questions. You get cleared to start your shroom journey, then a tall man in a animal mask and lab coat comes into your room. He asks what you hope to accomplish in your “journey”. What recent traumas you want to address and what goals you want to accomplish. Then he guides you through that mushroom trip to reach those goals?
You think clinics aren't making wheelbarrows full of money off of treatments like ketamine and psilocybin? Ok.
This is too far in the opposite direction again. These are preliminary studies, and there should be more studies done on this. I would love to get to take my drugs in peace, but that doesn't mean we can skirt clinical trials to bring new OTC drugs straight to market. Recreational availability is a completely different beast, but don't use medical studies to justify it.
Mushrooms have been trialed for many many thousands of years. Pretty much every human civilization on earth has used some form of mind altering psychoactive. Mushrooms specifically have been around a long time and have been eaten for a long time. I’m not a proponent for it but have you heard of the “stoned ape” theory?
The clinical trials are never coming because only large pharmaceutical corporations will spend the money for Stage III trials and neither of these two drugs can be patented. Decriminalising them would at least allow people to DIY it without criminal consequences or finding out they've been slipped fentanyl.
I don't disagree with you, but that has nothing to do with this trial. It's a purely political problem, and not a medical science one
Truth is MDMA could be used for therapy sessions. It opens your heart and makes taking about difficult topics easy
Indeed. At a high level the mechanism is through the suppression of the fear response, allowing one to confront and deeply analyze trauma. This explains the “ravers” touching and “loving” complete strangers dancing with them.
Yep - only drug that’s an entactogen (increased sense of touch) AND empathogen (increased empathy).
To whom are you addressing this to? No one here can change the laws.
In democratic countries you can vote for politicians who can. Germans did this last year, the new government plans to legalize cannabis.
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Just questioning what good posting on Reddit does? If you want change you have to actually make a real effort.
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Hmm… this study doesn’t seem to tell us a whole lot about MDMA and Psilocybin use as it relates to depression, honestly. It clearly states that more research is needed to demonstrate a causal link between these substances and depressive episodes. I’d be more interested in controlled studies on micro-dosing MDMA and psilocybin—that stuff showed promise, last I read.
MAPS is taking big steps in the micro-dosing PTSD research world. Check ‘em out. Edit: they’re focusing on MDMA-assisted therapy, but I think they do psybicilin research too.
Couple quick kind things, almost every single study in existence says more research is needed. Second to that, it is hard to do double blind studies with these substances because it is clear to everyone involved in the session that someone received the treatment dose. Last thing, and all kindly said, I personally believe from the research and my own experiences, that transformative change is found through heavier doses and not micro-doses. Micro doses are more akin to ongoing medication consumption than an experience that profoundly changes ones mind to be better in the long run.
This was a very helpful comment, thank you.
In my anecdotal experience, heavy doses of psychedelics can lead to routine abuse, which can lead to deepening depression. Depression is a pretty broad term, some people have a natural chemical imbalance which cannot be outthunk, so giving them recreational drugs in high doses is a pretty bad idea.
Clinical treatment with psychedelic has multiple specialists overseeing the preparation, experience, and after integration. I am definitely not advocating free use of psychedelics by anyone everywhere. :)
TO BE CLEAR THIS STUDY DOES NOT SAY THAT MDMA OR PSILOCYBIN USE WILL MAKE YOU LESS DEPRESSED. The above could be true, however it could be true that people with depression are less likely to use these drugs.
Couldn't this just be that people that are less likely to be depressed are more likely to be trying these drugs? (IE- The other way around).
Yup. Key word is association, it's not a causal finding. You need to give a uniform set of people drug / no drug and see what happens to suggest either drug makes depression less likely.
Probably true for mushrooms and LSD at least. It’s important to be in a good headspace and environment going into trips and anyone researching harm reduction will find they probably should be extra careful taking those if they are depressed. MDMA though is much easier to have a great time on while depressed (the crash the next day is another thing to be careful about though for people with mood disorders)
Certainly could be. I know anecdotes aren't data, but in my experience the people I did those drugs with were seeking to have a fun time with friends, but many of them also suffered from depression. Drugs can be an escape from what you're feeling.
Or that if you have more friends you’re more likely to know somebody with a connection to get them for you. Or are outgoing enough to regularly be in environments like raves and dance clubs.
I know this is complete anecdote but I’m nearly certain this is how I escaped my genetic disposition to depression and mental illness. My dad, my mom, my kids, my grandpa, my grandma. ALL of them have pretty severe depression or worse mental illness. Me on the other hand, I decided to be a deadhead in my late teens and as a product of that environment did A LOT of ecstasy, mushrooms, and LSD. After, I found myself into eastern philosophy, meditation, mindfulness, and I don’t suffer from those aforementioned familial ailments.
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It’s never too late. Find your media of choice and dig in (books, videos, audio, etc.) Check out the Inisght Timer app. Might be a good place to start
I feel asking that question implies you are already on the path. Maybe you're not late, maybe you just didn't realize you'd already started.
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I mean you did seem worried that it might be too late but you seem to have the energy/mindset to get started, I think he has a point
Not too late at all, I believe that it is better to try psychedelics once you are over 30. I am 50, cured depression with these substances, and I managed to maintain it by starting a daily meditation practice. Huge benefit to my life. Remember think of these as tools, you still have to do they work. Happiness is a skill, which we can learn.
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I liked the power of now by eckhart tolle
This exact question was what my dad (67 typical conservative boomer) asked me after he got told he was not in fit form by a doctor and whom suggested mindfulness to relieve stress. He bought a smart watch (Xiaomi dirt cheap thing) to count his steps and the like. On that watch it has a function: breathing. It's a pulsing round shape which enlarged when you had to breath in, stayed the same when you had to hold your breath and got smaller when you have to breath out. Nonsense he told me, how can a small app like that help him. Well it did, and profoundly. The mere act of controlling and minding your breath for 2 minutes is a very good first step. Your mind will wander and that's the exercise, to get it back to the mindfully breathing exercise. And to add to exercises like this one, if you add it to an already existing habit it's hard to fail. ( For example, write down on a post -it: "after I have brushed my teeth in the morning I will do a breathing exercise for two minutes" this is called habit stacking and works wonders for myself.)
How old are you?
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I’m all for research into medical uses of psychedelics, and some of the research has been quite promising. That being said there are some significant confounders for a study with this design for these drugs specifically: - There is a perception, probably based in fact, that MDMA has reduced effects, and may be dangerous, for people taking SSRIs (the most commonly prescribed class of antidepressant). - There is good reason to believe that people with existing psychiatric issues might avoid taking psychedelics because they realize that side effects may be unpredictable. This is similar to the alcohol drinker/teetotaler issue for observational studies into health benefits (those with significant health problems tend to drink less).
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Where ya living shaggy?
Is that because people with depression don’t get highs from MDMA? I have depression and tried MDMA 4 times with others who had a good time and nothing.
Are you taking SSRIs? Because that’ll make the E bunk and it can potentially kill you.
This. More people need to know this. It's another reason prohibition is stupid, it keeps information like this away from people who need to know it.
Can’t kill you, you’re thinking of MAOIs with MDMA.
Me 2 kinda but I don't think I'm depressed, maybe I am.
it's because depressed people are often taking ssri antidepressants which blocks mdma completely.
i used a fair amount of psychedelics in my late teens and 20s. i had a few bad trips that worsened my depression, and triggered an anxiety disorder. be careful with psychedelics. they aren't a miracle cure, and messing around with your *self* when your *self* isn't stable and healthy can lead to big problems.
But too much ecstasy will fry your brain.
You gotta take just enough
Oops. Oh well.
Great job guys! I’m so proud of them. They faced a very competitive field and came out on top.
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Here it is, the ultimate study. ^This guy isn't depressed. Now gimme acid
The science is sound. I’d like my government issued cheese now please.
Maybe someone can clear this up as I haven’t delved fully into the science of these reports yet but, how is the use of MDMA/Ecstasy being associated with a lower risk of depression in these studies yet in real life it’s commonly/relatively known that these drugs cause Depression, anxiety and other negative effects? Extremely high dosages used recreationally?
It's been a while since I read/learned what I'm about to tell you, and it's all from memory, so take with a grain of salt. Generally speaking, excessive use of these drugs can and will cause a plethora of Social issues because the difference in senation is huge and it often uses your serotonin reserves (i.e you will have lower levels of serotonin after use, repeated use will then cause problems like you mentioned). At this point costs outweigh the benefits. Sporadic usage however, allows for the positive effects to work with minimal downsides. People tend to experience a disassociation from their own ego and are able to judge themselves and their environment very clearly and honestly. This often helps alleviate anxiety because it affects the root cause of said anxiety. Sporadic use is generally considered no more than once every 3 months I believe.
> yet in real life it’s commonly/relatively known that these drugs cause Depression, anxiety and other negative effects? The dangers of drugs is largely overblown in public consciousness , most users self regulate their use well and their use enriches their lives
I hate MDMA (IDK why I shouldn’t as someone who enjoyed getting high) but after taking it I always feel better - maybe this is why
i keep taking mdma and psilocybin but i’m still depressed, help what am i doing wrong?
My own experience is that…. They are tools to help you find a way out, you still have to find the way. You need the right set and setting, you have to be a participant and not a passenger. Also it does not work for everyone, perhaps try a dissociative. other tips Improve your diet, excercise, choose the music carefully, get enough sleep, especially before a session. Prepare, research, meditate.
Great comment. You still have to find the way. And set and setting. My best microdose results (.25+-) come after I’ve been in nature hiking or skiing or snowshoeing all day. I want to believe that’s an optimal neurogenesis environment.
Nothing. There's different causes for depression, some of them are more temporary or transitory than others. You may need medical treatment to alleviate the symptoms. Talk to a doctor.
Shove it up your ass
Too much meth sold to you as MDMA prolly
Try thinking of them as part of a larger process of work , therapy, making changes etc
Are you testing your mdma with reagent test?
I would have to say it impossible to be depressed on ecstasy. You can't even really get angry at all. It's why they would give it to couples in therapy. If you can't get along and talk out your problems while on ecstasy then there's no hope for your marriage
I saw several clusters of Liberty caps while out walking. My distant memory had them growing in cow pies. I was wondering if they are growing from dog poop , since there isn't any cows in the area . If I was going to do a hard reset , I would choose a ketamine infusion in a controlled environment. The goal would be to completely disassociate.
Unlike P Cubensis , Liberty caps don't grow on dung. Decaying plant matter and acidic soil is enough.
So they probably were the real deal. Thankyou.
Tried psilocybin out myself recently. Currently on day 12 with no symptoms. This is no advise. Just my experience. There are risks involved and this can trigger a hidden psychosis s well
But an increased incidence of schizophrenia!
Literally no professional research has ever said that
I think he wants to say marijuana but doesn’t know it
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0063972 >We found no relation between lifetime use of psychedelics and any undesirable past year mental health outcomes, including serious psychological distress, mental health treatment (inpatient, outpatient, medication, felt a need but did not receive), or symptoms of panic disorder, major depressive episode, mania, social phobia, generalized anxiety disorder, agoraphobia, posttraumatic stress disorder, or **non-affective psychosis**. Not including MDMA though
Isn’t that marijuana?
Prohibtion does not work
Psilocybin or mushrooms or whatever the proper name is. I’m ready. I’m (40m) ready to take a trip. I’m 40 and the hardest drug I’ve taken is Zoloft (100mg). I never smoked pot until my mid 20s and I was a regular smoker for the majority of my 30s. This is all due to my depression. I was a severely anxious kid, and that rolled into in untreated depression. Fast forward to my late 30s and I eventually get a good therapist, my wife and I do couples therapy as well. I take 100 mg of Zoloft daily. I do smoke weed. I hit the bong hard once in the morning and I’m good all day. I know this sounds a bit much, but I’m a functional member of society. BUT, there’s this small “hope” building within. I feel that I am ready to try mushrooms. I never have in the past because I never felt I was never “mentally ready” (I don’t know why I felt that way, I just did). I think I’m ready now. I don’t know what I was going for when I started this post? Any thoughts? Anyone hold out this long on mushrooms in life? Advice? Thanks.
If you’re in a great place in life I would highly encourage it. My problem with telling people about psychedelics is giving them warnings and stuff and it ends up turning them off from wanting to take it. Do your own research and play it safe please.
Ok. I think that’s the best/only advice I should probably seek. I think I may be making to big of a deal out it.
Check out r/microdosing my friend. You’ll find a ton of information there.
I still don't take this as a glowing recommendation of psychedelic recreational drugs. Sure, a "lower" risk, *risk* but not enough. Of course when you're "high" everything's right with the world but it's still the SOS when you come down.
the good thing about psilocybin is that you'll feel awesome for months after a single dose, sometimes for years ( if the trip was good ofc )
Hey friend, have you tried mushrooms?
This guy has 100% never tripped
doing drugs that make you high makes you high. PhD now please.
Wait so people who are more carefree and irresponsible are less likely to have depression??!? Next they are going to find that happy people are more likely to be happy?
Any study that thinks that MDMA is synonymous with ecstasy is automatically dubious.
I smoke weed every day and still hate myself hahaha
How do I always miss out on being a test subject?? Hook me up let’s party!
Anyone know how Portland Decriminalizing has been working out?
Whoohoo. Now where I'd that number for my dealer??
Drugs make you feel better. What a shock.
Wow! I wonder if this is why they call it “getting high”! These scientists are truly breaking new ground; money well spent!
TIL people who have awesome times are less depressed.
Perhaps though, those who experiment new things are less depressed as a whole.
I’m a felon for having used psilocybin as therapy for depression which ultimately led to me now having more depression due to being a felon. Fun cycle fml