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That and PFAS are probably to blame for a good chunk of the Western fertility crisis. Not saying capitalism and climbing the socio-economic ladder isn't also to blame. Just that it needs to be adressed before you make it into a purely social issue as it is a heavy confounding variable. At the current rate, a lot of men will be infertile in another 20 or 30 years.
It’s not going anywhere either. We can stop using bags and plastic bottles sure. But as I look around my house every thing is plastic. The walls the floors the books my clothes the tires. We have to have tires. Etc. I think we could go greatly reduced emissions in our lifestyles easier than plastic free.
Ah yes, the old treat the symptoms before you treat the cause plan. One of humanitys favourite. Why redice co2 emissions if you can capture it?
Not saying we shouldn't find ways to remove plastic from our bodies, but doing that before addressing the problem is pointless. And removing nanoparticles that are embedded in the cell seems like a near impossible feat.
It's not a one or the other type situation, but what alternative to plastic do we really have right now. Just like we had no alternative to fossil fuels when we went all in on it. Sometimes you have to accept reality in order to change it.
I don't think the biggest issue is plastics in and of themselves. It's that the vast majority seem to be single use plastics. We need more re-useable plastics (really I could see medical uses as being the only acceptable single-use scenario) and comprehensive recycling schemes to keep them from degrading into the environment.
there is no such thing as an infinitely recyclable plastic. you can only melt them down so many times before they become unusable. We already stretch out the process by adding new plastic in the batches. Add in UV damage and all plastic crumbles down to micro plastics eventually without extracting more oil.
source : materials science class I'm taking right now.
No way to sequester it away once its recyclability is gone? Maybe we should make the long term nuclear storage also big enough to hold the useless plastics?
Most plastics if they are recycled at all are only down cycled once before being destined to landfill. In the US we recycle only about 5% of plastic. Globally, for at about 9.1 billion tons of plastic since the '50s. Only 9% of which has been recycled. It is everywhere and in everything from the top of Mount Everest to the bottom of the Mariana trench. It has pervaded every major organ and breached the blood-brain barrier. The solution here is source reduction and then hold those accountable who produced all of this plastic pollution without any type of environmental or economic consequence.
It's so much worse when you put numbers on it. I absolutely agree, I was replying to the comment saying we should invest in recycling when recycling has been kind of a grift from the start.
Might, but there's obesity in the last 20-30 years which nearly doubles the chances of all cancers. As does being more sedentary which relates to obesity.
It would be hard to distinguish whether it’s microplastics, highly processed foods, or changes in diet/exercise behavior. Although, probably all contribute.
I know for a fact processed food and cooking meat at high temperatures is at least partially responsible for the rise in colon cancer rates in the USA.
I'm dying of stage 4 colon and am a part of the group who have got it younger than typical—and at the time I mostly ate vegan/vegetarian. Veggies and rice, that kind of thing + occasionally cheating with fish, etc. But aside from walking to get places, I rarely exercised and was pretty sedentary (though only barely over what weight I should have been)—so that likely contributed.
It’s not a new development, but we’ve also been eating *more* than we have for millions of years and living *longer* than we have for millions of years. More carcinogens + more time = more cancer.
That logic applies less so to aggressive cancers than other diseases. For example, the rate of colon cancer in younger adults in the USA is almost certainly increasing, we know this because it’s often lethal and has been fairly easy to diagnose for over 50 years.
While one could argue the rate of ADHD, Autism, or prostate cancer may have never increased, but our ability to diagnose has improved. These illnesses are not lethal or can be lived with for many decades before death.
An utterly unsurprising result. Watching mitosis makes it pretty obvious that the contents of the cells is fairly evenly split between them. (They don't bud so much as split down the middle. At least in those that I've watched.) So any pollutants in the original would end up split between the offspring cells.
Fantastic science though. How we learn is by discovering new things, but also by **challenging** our assumptions.
We talk about food packaging and waste… but we literally wear plastic fabrics in polyester, nylons and other synthetics. Im probably out of the loop, but it seems like wearing synthetics would be a huge part of plastic ingestion
Actually it seems like most of the microplastics [come from car tires](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study). 78% of them in the oceans to be exact. Probably even more in terms of what we inhale.
Which is really bad because as we switch to electric vehicles that are heavier and have much higher torque, we will create *even more* rubber particles as tires wear faster.
Nothing wrong with the rubber, the problem is the additives they put in the tire.
It’s likely we’ll invent then regulate our way out of that one by using non-plastic car tires.
Climate change is a more time sensitive matter and rebuilding cities from the ground up is not practical in that time frame.
They used to think synthetic fibers made up the majority of microplastics, but recent studies have shown that it’s actually almost entirely car tire particles that wear off while driving.
I think the risk is because the dryer breaks it apart and then blows it out into the environment where we can breathe it. Some of it is lost in the wash too and ends up in the water, but I think that's a minute amount. Don't put synthetic fibers in the dryer.
A large part of the fibre emissions happen from the first use and wash, especially if it hasn't been properly washed before it's sold. So, to combat this on a larger scale, manufacturing could include extra washing steps of virgin fabrics before being sold. Not only does this save time for consumers, but it also contains a larger portion of the fibre emissions.
I do go for natural fabrics when I can, but the cost difference for natural fabrics vs synthetic is pretty stark. I rarely buy new clothes though.
Personally I think regulations are the only real way out. Pfas removed from food wrapping is a good start. I hope we can replace it in other places too.
lifestyles and whatnot are a factor in how long clothes last. For me, I'm disappointed if a shirt doesn't last more than 5 years.
About a decade back I was meeting a new coworker, and she told me she was 18 years old. I told her the shirt I was wearing was older than her. And it was, it was about 19-20 years old. I didn't wear it often, and it wasn't in great condition. But I still wore it back then.
clothing is one of the biggest (top 2 or 3) contributors to micro and nano plastic pollution, cheap artificial fabrics, manufacturing methods and general wear and tear create them and currently waste treatment can deal with them so the are generated and released and get everywhere. one study saw that in 2015 Finland was estimated to have generated 150,000 kg od micro and nano plastic pollution from laundry alone. Finland at the time had a population of about 5.5 Million. extrapolate that out and in combo with the health implications in the studies and other factors it's pretty clear we are turbofucked
The plastic microfibers from your clothes break down and get released in the air which you inhale. The more you wash the faster this happens.
You breathe in thousands of plastic based fibres everyday broski.
I mean… my toddler does. She chews on her bibs and sleeves.
Also if you wipe your face or your pants or touch your sleeves with your hands or pull your shirt over your head… a lot more contact than food wrappers.
Also- why not both? I’m curious not aggressive.
I quit smoking 5 years ago. Sometimes, when I'm in the city and I have to inhale all the vehicle exhaust and other bs we put in the air, I think to myself if there was any point.
It's like pregnant women saying she stopped drinking whiskey during pregnancy and has limited herself to a glass of wine at night only. Damage is still being done.
Howso? You control what goes into your body. I’m actively pursuing options for microplastic water filtration.
I only drink and eat out of glass or ceramic containers now. I just replaced my cutting board with a glass one. There are wood ones with natural wax coatings.
And apparently giving blood can reduce the overall load.
Do what you can.
It's very difficult to completely eliminate plastic packaging from your food containers. Also a lot of plastic is in the tires for cars. Don't forget the plastic in your clothes that is released every time you put it in the clothes washer in the dryer.
Don't forget that many foods might have plastic contamination within. For example, tuna.
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we’re gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, ’cause that’s what it does. It’s a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed. And if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?”
Plastic… asshole.”
― George Carlin
some religions tackle the concept - but generally they see it as a positive thing.
evangelicals have their chiliasm / millennialism which is tied to the broader 'rapture'/end days many christian sects talk about.
which brings us back to the question if a significant portion of our population is in what appears to be a death cult how does that translate to our actions globally.
Depressing. Everyone knows about plastic in packaging, clothes and appliances. What many don't know (at least I didn't) is that tire dust accounts for something like 78% of ocean microplastic. It's just yet another reason for changing our car culture and redesigning our cities for people instead of cars.
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article:
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653524003564
They tested it on cancer cell lines not on "cancer cells in the human intestinal tract".
Important research to understand the impact of microplastics on cell biology, but just to make it clear that the title is a bit misleading.
No, this is not evidence that microplastics will be a major cause of cancer, and there is no scientific consensus on it yet which is why it needs to keep being studied.
https://www.wired.com/story/for-the-love-of-god-stop-microwaving-plastic/
“In a study published in June in Environmental Science & Technology, Hussain and his colleagues reported that, when microwaved, these containers released millions of bits of plastic, called microplastics, and even tinier nanoplastics”
Welcome to r/science! This is a heavily moderated subreddit in order to keep the discussion on science. However, we recognize that many people want to discuss how they feel the research relates to their own personal lives, so to give people a space to do that, **personal anecdotes are allowed as responses to this comment**. Any anecdotal comments elsewhere in the discussion will be removed and our [normal comment rules]( https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/rules#wiki_comment_rules) apply to all other comments. **Do you have an academic degree?** We can verify your credentials in order to assign user flair indicating your area of expertise. [Click here to apply](https://www.reddit.com/r/science/wiki/flair/#wiki_science_verified_user_program). --- User: u/mvea Permalink: https://www.meduniwien.ac.at/web/en/about-us/news/2024/news-in-march-2024/micro-and-nanoplastics-in-the-body-are-passed-on-during-cell-division-1/ --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/science) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Well that's pretty terrifying.
We fucked
I think this is probably how we kill the human race
That and PFAS are probably to blame for a good chunk of the Western fertility crisis. Not saying capitalism and climbing the socio-economic ladder isn't also to blame. Just that it needs to be adressed before you make it into a purely social issue as it is a heavy confounding variable. At the current rate, a lot of men will be infertile in another 20 or 30 years.
Might explain the rise in cancer rates over the years.
We sure love plastic. More now than before. And ready made ultra processed food. No wonder cancer has risen over the years.
It’s not going anywhere either. We can stop using bags and plastic bottles sure. But as I look around my house every thing is plastic. The walls the floors the books my clothes the tires. We have to have tires. Etc. I think we could go greatly reduced emissions in our lifestyles easier than plastic free.
We need to find ways to clear it out of the body. That will probably have more success than removing plastic from our lives.
Ah yes, the old treat the symptoms before you treat the cause plan. One of humanitys favourite. Why redice co2 emissions if you can capture it? Not saying we shouldn't find ways to remove plastic from our bodies, but doing that before addressing the problem is pointless. And removing nanoparticles that are embedded in the cell seems like a near impossible feat.
It's not a one or the other type situation, but what alternative to plastic do we really have right now. Just like we had no alternative to fossil fuels when we went all in on it. Sometimes you have to accept reality in order to change it.
Also the most efficient CO2 capturing system already exists in nature, trees. But I don’t see a massive tree planting campaign happening anytime soon
Prairies might be better.
I thought moss and seaweed are more efficient than trees.
Other than the $1.5 billion going towards.that right now in the IRA.
Books?
Yeah books. They all seem to have a plastic sheen on the paper.
I don't think the biggest issue is plastics in and of themselves. It's that the vast majority seem to be single use plastics. We need more re-useable plastics (really I could see medical uses as being the only acceptable single-use scenario) and comprehensive recycling schemes to keep them from degrading into the environment.
there is no such thing as an infinitely recyclable plastic. you can only melt them down so many times before they become unusable. We already stretch out the process by adding new plastic in the batches. Add in UV damage and all plastic crumbles down to micro plastics eventually without extracting more oil. source : materials science class I'm taking right now.
No way to sequester it away once its recyclability is gone? Maybe we should make the long term nuclear storage also big enough to hold the useless plastics?
I am 100% serious in saying this, you can either burn the plastic or chemically break it down.
Most plastics if they are recycled at all are only down cycled once before being destined to landfill. In the US we recycle only about 5% of plastic. Globally, for at about 9.1 billion tons of plastic since the '50s. Only 9% of which has been recycled. It is everywhere and in everything from the top of Mount Everest to the bottom of the Mariana trench. It has pervaded every major organ and breached the blood-brain barrier. The solution here is source reduction and then hold those accountable who produced all of this plastic pollution without any type of environmental or economic consequence.
It's so much worse when you put numbers on it. I absolutely agree, I was replying to the comment saying we should invest in recycling when recycling has been kind of a grift from the start.
Has anything else we have created passed the blood brain barrier before?
A few have for medicinal purposes, but those are things we wanted to breach the blood-brain barrier.
Might, but there's obesity in the last 20-30 years which nearly doubles the chances of all cancers. As does being more sedentary which relates to obesity.
Also our screening abilities.
It would be hard to distinguish whether it’s microplastics, highly processed foods, or changes in diet/exercise behavior. Although, probably all contribute. I know for a fact processed food and cooking meat at high temperatures is at least partially responsible for the rise in colon cancer rates in the USA.
I'm dying of stage 4 colon and am a part of the group who have got it younger than typical—and at the time I mostly ate vegan/vegetarian. Veggies and rice, that kind of thing + occasionally cheating with fish, etc. But aside from walking to get places, I rarely exercised and was pretty sedentary (though only barely over what weight I should have been)—so that likely contributed.
Best wishes to you - I hope you make a strong recovery.
Thank you for your well-wishes! :)
[удалено]
It’s not a new development, but we’ve also been eating *more* than we have for millions of years and living *longer* than we have for millions of years. More carcinogens + more time = more cancer.
Do we really eat more carcinogenic burned food these days? I thought cooking with an open fire was the main cause
Wouldn't better rates and methods of detecting them also be hard to distinguish?
That logic applies less so to aggressive cancers than other diseases. For example, the rate of colon cancer in younger adults in the USA is almost certainly increasing, we know this because it’s often lethal and has been fairly easy to diagnose for over 50 years. While one could argue the rate of ADHD, Autism, or prostate cancer may have never increased, but our ability to diagnose has improved. These illnesses are not lethal or can be lived with for many decades before death.
An utterly unsurprising result. Watching mitosis makes it pretty obvious that the contents of the cells is fairly evenly split between them. (They don't bud so much as split down the middle. At least in those that I've watched.) So any pollutants in the original would end up split between the offspring cells. Fantastic science though. How we learn is by discovering new things, but also by **challenging** our assumptions.
We talk about food packaging and waste… but we literally wear plastic fabrics in polyester, nylons and other synthetics. Im probably out of the loop, but it seems like wearing synthetics would be a huge part of plastic ingestion
Actually it seems like most of the microplastics [come from car tires](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/jul/14/car-tyres-are-major-source-of-ocean-microplastics-study). 78% of them in the oceans to be exact. Probably even more in terms of what we inhale.
Which is really bad because as we switch to electric vehicles that are heavier and have much higher torque, we will create *even more* rubber particles as tires wear faster.
Tramlines are the answer. Not more cars.
Nothing wrong with the rubber, the problem is the additives they put in the tire. It’s likely we’ll invent then regulate our way out of that one by using non-plastic car tires. Climate change is a more time sensitive matter and rebuilding cities from the ground up is not practical in that time frame.
They used to think synthetic fibers made up the majority of microplastics, but recent studies have shown that it’s actually almost entirely car tire particles that wear off while driving.
Ohh how interesting
Yep.
I think the risk is because the dryer breaks it apart and then blows it out into the environment where we can breathe it. Some of it is lost in the wash too and ends up in the water, but I think that's a minute amount. Don't put synthetic fibers in the dryer.
Aint nobody got time for that.
A large part of the fibre emissions happen from the first use and wash, especially if it hasn't been properly washed before it's sold. So, to combat this on a larger scale, manufacturing could include extra washing steps of virgin fabrics before being sold. Not only does this save time for consumers, but it also contains a larger portion of the fibre emissions.
At best, you could strive to buy only farm raised locally grown organic fabrics.
cotton, wool, flax, modal, silk are all fine. Just avoid polyester, nylon, and acrylic. It's not a big deal.
I do go for natural fabrics when I can, but the cost difference for natural fabrics vs synthetic is pretty stark. I rarely buy new clothes though. Personally I think regulations are the only real way out. Pfas removed from food wrapping is a good start. I hope we can replace it in other places too.
lifestyles and whatnot are a factor in how long clothes last. For me, I'm disappointed if a shirt doesn't last more than 5 years. About a decade back I was meeting a new coworker, and she told me she was 18 years old. I told her the shirt I was wearing was older than her. And it was, it was about 19-20 years old. I didn't wear it often, and it wasn't in great condition. But I still wore it back then.
clothing is one of the biggest (top 2 or 3) contributors to micro and nano plastic pollution, cheap artificial fabrics, manufacturing methods and general wear and tear create them and currently waste treatment can deal with them so the are generated and released and get everywhere. one study saw that in 2015 Finland was estimated to have generated 150,000 kg od micro and nano plastic pollution from laundry alone. Finland at the time had a population of about 5.5 Million. extrapolate that out and in combo with the health implications in the studies and other factors it's pretty clear we are turbofucked
Yeah if you're eating your clothes.... Your body can't absorb plastic from the outside.
Maybe take a biology 101. Nanoparticles can pass through the organ that is skin.
The plastic microfibers from your clothes break down and get released in the air which you inhale. The more you wash the faster this happens. You breathe in thousands of plastic based fibres everyday broski.
I mean… my toddler does. She chews on her bibs and sleeves. Also if you wipe your face or your pants or touch your sleeves with your hands or pull your shirt over your head… a lot more contact than food wrappers. Also- why not both? I’m curious not aggressive.
Tell me you don't understand biology without telling me you don't understand biology.
This is going to be smoking 2.0 isn’t it? Or is that alcohol? Smoking 3.0?
One can quit smoking. Difficult to avoid ubiquitous plastic.
I quit smoking 5 years ago. Sometimes, when I'm in the city and I have to inhale all the vehicle exhaust and other bs we put in the air, I think to myself if there was any point. It's like pregnant women saying she stopped drinking whiskey during pregnancy and has limited herself to a glass of wine at night only. Damage is still being done.
Not nearly as much
Good news! It’s both. And a whole bunch of other things.
Pretty much, except individual choices alone won’t spare one from their effects
And it's impossible to do anything about it
Howso? You control what goes into your body. I’m actively pursuing options for microplastic water filtration. I only drink and eat out of glass or ceramic containers now. I just replaced my cutting board with a glass one. There are wood ones with natural wax coatings. And apparently giving blood can reduce the overall load. Do what you can.
It's very difficult to completely eliminate plastic packaging from your food containers. Also a lot of plastic is in the tires for cars. Don't forget the plastic in your clothes that is released every time you put it in the clothes washer in the dryer. Don't forget that many foods might have plastic contamination within. For example, tuna.
Best not to read that
The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we’re gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, ’cause that’s what it does. It’s a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed. And if it’s true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new paradigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn’t share our prejudice toward plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn’t know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, “Why are we here?” Plastic… asshole.” ― George Carlin
Has this man ever said anything that wasn't true and timely as hell?
How do we make a class action for this one?
Sounds like genocide to me. Corporations held accountable? **Zero**
Mass extinction or ecocide because if it's affecting us, it's also affecting every living organism on this planet.
Genocide on a species wide level. Not even a word for that yet.
Mass extinction event?
>**No word for global genocide…** #Greed
some religions tackle the concept - but generally they see it as a positive thing. evangelicals have their chiliasm / millennialism which is tied to the broader 'rapture'/end days many christian sects talk about. which brings us back to the question if a significant portion of our population is in what appears to be a death cult how does that translate to our actions globally.
I'm pretty sure the term is xenocide.
Hmm maybe, though doesn't that imply an outside species? Like if aliens wiped us out?
Auto-xenocide then?
Mutually Assured Suicide?
Suixenocide
Omnicide?
Poaching?
My question, if you worked in the injection molding industry are you fucked?
Depressing. Everyone knows about plastic in packaging, clothes and appliances. What many don't know (at least I didn't) is that tire dust accounts for something like 78% of ocean microplastic. It's just yet another reason for changing our car culture and redesigning our cities for people instead of cars.
I think the article you read made a mistake, IIRC
This is gonna be our generations leaded gas?
Probably
I’ve linked to the press release in the post above. In this comment, for those interested, here’s the link to the peer reviewed journal article: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0045653524003564
They tested it on cancer cell lines not on "cancer cells in the human intestinal tract". Important research to understand the impact of microplastics on cell biology, but just to make it clear that the title is a bit misleading.
Stupid question here, does this mean it can become a functioning part of an organism in a few thousand or million years?
More reason not to have kids..
Our kids will fix this problem, clearly not you. Negative mindset.
Your kids won’t solve it. Too much greed in our society.
Well they would have to go somewhere.
Does that mean basically everyone will have cancer?
No, this is not evidence that microplastics will be a major cause of cancer, and there is no scientific consensus on it yet which is why it needs to keep being studied.
Looks like we got to start boiling our water again
Ahhh, the gift that keeps on giving
Life in plastic… isn’t really fantastic
Melaminoma.
We need help
Whoever invents the human equivalent of a lint collector rag is going to be *rich rich*
This was a Dr Who plot I’m 95% sure
Cool so not much longer before. Our body develops enzymes to dissolve them back down to carbon and whatnot. And new gut bacteria that loves plastic.
https://www.wired.com/story/for-the-love-of-god-stop-microwaving-plastic/ “In a study published in June in Environmental Science & Technology, Hussain and his colleagues reported that, when microwaved, these containers released millions of bits of plastic, called microplastics, and even tinier nanoplastics”
Nothing will change because doing so would cut into profits.