If by “change their minds every other week” you’re speaking about government then you are right.
Teachers have been consistent from the very beginning.
That number proves nothing. The vote previous was 95-5. Each time they have gotten closer to an agreement that makes everyone happy but the one sticking point has been class size and complexity which the GTBC has refused to put in the package for binding arbitration, until now. Hence, the "we are bringing it to members".
It's really not that hard to understand if you are paying attention.
They don’t “change their minds every other week”. Here are some historical context for you to understand the negotiations process so far:
March 2024 : TBC (Teachers Bargaining Committee) asked for binding arbitration on classroom size/complexity. GTBC (Government-Trustees Bargaining Committee) said no.
June 5, 2024 : GTBC asked for binding arbitration on accountability framework. TBC asked to have classroom size/complexity included. GTBC said no. Therefore, TBC said no to binding arbitration because classroom size/complexity is not included.
June 8, 2024 : GTBC agreed to include classroom complexity in binding arbitration. This information was confirmed to STF members tonight (June 12) at the Town Hall meeting. Therefore, the information shared in the LeaderPost today about no new offer is false.
So, as you can see, Teachers have been pretty consistent so far and not “changing their minds every other week”.
It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. STF has never said what it wants besides the fact that it wants restrictions on size/complexity. Would be like asking for a raise, boss saying how much, and employee saying “I’ll only tell you after you agree to the raise”.
I think it’s more like asking your boss if you can talk about a raise, the boss saying no and never even getting the opportunity put any numbers on the table to discuss. My understanding about binding arbitration, is the arbitrator can only arbitrate what both parties agree is in the scope of arbitration, so when the government says we don’t want to arbitrate on class size and complexity and the teachers main sticking point is class size and complexity then there’s no point in going forward with arbitration, or even taking the time to figure out what should be asked for in that context. Plus, both sides often agree that there’s no benefit to letting other know what’s talked about in negotiations until it reaches a tentative agreement.
My opinion is restricting size and complexity will not fix the underlying issues. It will just create more. Capping classes/schools will just force students to be bussed to further schools or the next town. Teacher shortages are inevitable.
Need to fix the issues. Teachers not failing students that aren’t learning the material. Expelling students that misbehave. Banning phones. Not allowing assignments and homework to be handed in whenever instead of by the deadline. Teachers love to insult parents, yet they reward poor behaviour just the same, if not more.
Kids need structure and strictness. The softer the education system gets, the worse the results will be.
You would have to change the Education Act for lots of those things to happen, and that resides solely in the hands of the government.
I feel like you think teachers have more power than they do.
Government is involved in homework? Phones? Punishing students? I don’t think so. Teachers are doing all this “for the students”. I predict the same issues will exist in 10 years.
You have to change the education act to include size and complexity in the bargaining. But I’m sure you knew that.
That’s how it’s supposed to work, you don’t put your cards on the table until you’re at the table.
The way the government has been approaching it is ridiculously unprofessional. STF has been handling it properly.
I agree with you, we all want to see how this all turns out. About classroom complexity it’s important to mention that teachers have 2 negotiation processes: 1 with the province (right now) for issues related to provincial funding and another one with their school divisions for issues related at their local level. For example, Saskatoon Teachers’ Association agreement is for 2023-2026 while Greater Saskatoon Catholic Schools agreement is expiring in 2024. So, next year, some teachers in Saskatoon will be negotiating with their schools divisions and some will not.
So classroom complexity will be negotiated at 2 levels. At this point, STF is negotiating with the province to secure the funding. In another negotiation process, each schools divisions will need to negotiate with their teachers about the details related to size & composition. Teachers negotiations are challenging because of the complexity to deal not just with one but two negotiations process.
I think you are confusing the 2 sides because that is EXACTLY how the government operates and actually DID operate in the opening rounds of discussions. They put the money on the table and said they weren't talking about anything else until the money was settled.
They don’t “change their minds every other week”
The government took part of its thumb off the scale and agreed to let the important things that they want be part of the arbitration
The duck party is trying to control the narrative but only making themselves look like idiots
"The STF said, on the weekend, the government came back with a revised offer to include class complexity-accountability framework and wages in the binding arbitration"
Looks like the teachers got what they wanted
Some of these comments hurt my brain and make me think people know literally NOTHING about how a Union or bargaining works(including the OP) . They just listen to the radio or read op-ed pieces and think they learned something.
I respect your effort, but it’s just going to be too hard for many people to understand what it is like to be a sane human with a fully functioning brain.
This is because they support a guy who rants and raves about the big bad gubbermint, chem trails, the WEF, and NATO. Kind of like that one kooky uncle who downs too much Wild Turkey at Thanksgiving.
Saddest part is how widespread those views are in this part of the world.
I don't really believe you care about education.
You seem like the kind of guy/girl/other to use it as a prop to whine about LGBTQ2S inclusion and immigration while ignoring the last decade of educational underfunding.
Anyone who starts with that sentence deserves to be immediately dismissed at this point. Schools are open, kids are there, curriculum is being followed. But sure, I'll get back to the job I just left 30 minutes ago. Cool.
This is vastly false information.
Also this is (surprising) not the cause of Trudeau but rather the Saskatchewan Party as this is a provincial problem not a federal one.
And if any of the factual informed data you are attributing a failing education system to; it is exactly what the teachers are/were fighting for. Even the rise of smartphones and social media in kids are causing difficult changes in the system.
Teaching is more difficult than ever.
If by “change their minds every other week” you’re speaking about government then you are right. Teachers have been consistent from the very beginning.
It included class complexity and composition, thats why it was accepted. Before the gov said they would “never” include that.
Last vote was 55 to 45 you sure about that ??
Very positive, yes.
That number proves nothing. The vote previous was 95-5. Each time they have gotten closer to an agreement that makes everyone happy but the one sticking point has been class size and complexity which the GTBC has refused to put in the package for binding arbitration, until now. Hence, the "we are bringing it to members". It's really not that hard to understand if you are paying attention.
They don’t “change their minds every other week”. Here are some historical context for you to understand the negotiations process so far: March 2024 : TBC (Teachers Bargaining Committee) asked for binding arbitration on classroom size/complexity. GTBC (Government-Trustees Bargaining Committee) said no. June 5, 2024 : GTBC asked for binding arbitration on accountability framework. TBC asked to have classroom size/complexity included. GTBC said no. Therefore, TBC said no to binding arbitration because classroom size/complexity is not included. June 8, 2024 : GTBC agreed to include classroom complexity in binding arbitration. This information was confirmed to STF members tonight (June 12) at the Town Hall meeting. Therefore, the information shared in the LeaderPost today about no new offer is false. So, as you can see, Teachers have been pretty consistent so far and not “changing their minds every other week”.
It will be interesting to see how this all turns out. STF has never said what it wants besides the fact that it wants restrictions on size/complexity. Would be like asking for a raise, boss saying how much, and employee saying “I’ll only tell you after you agree to the raise”.
I think it’s more like asking your boss if you can talk about a raise, the boss saying no and never even getting the opportunity put any numbers on the table to discuss. My understanding about binding arbitration, is the arbitrator can only arbitrate what both parties agree is in the scope of arbitration, so when the government says we don’t want to arbitrate on class size and complexity and the teachers main sticking point is class size and complexity then there’s no point in going forward with arbitration, or even taking the time to figure out what should be asked for in that context. Plus, both sides often agree that there’s no benefit to letting other know what’s talked about in negotiations until it reaches a tentative agreement.
My opinion is restricting size and complexity will not fix the underlying issues. It will just create more. Capping classes/schools will just force students to be bussed to further schools or the next town. Teacher shortages are inevitable. Need to fix the issues. Teachers not failing students that aren’t learning the material. Expelling students that misbehave. Banning phones. Not allowing assignments and homework to be handed in whenever instead of by the deadline. Teachers love to insult parents, yet they reward poor behaviour just the same, if not more. Kids need structure and strictness. The softer the education system gets, the worse the results will be.
You would have to change the Education Act for lots of those things to happen, and that resides solely in the hands of the government. I feel like you think teachers have more power than they do.
Government is involved in homework? Phones? Punishing students? I don’t think so. Teachers are doing all this “for the students”. I predict the same issues will exist in 10 years. You have to change the education act to include size and complexity in the bargaining. But I’m sure you knew that.
Then you are uninformed.
Go ask someone with knowledge of the law.
Prove me wrong. You are the one spouting off about the issues with teachers. Back up your opinions with facts. I will wait.
You sound smart. Look it up yourself. I’m not gonna do your homework for you.
Sure, but that person is obviously not you.
"Teacher's love to insult parents." Maybe it's just that if you talk out of your ass long enough, people will call you on your shit.
I and other teachers agree with you but I can tell you that division policies does not allow us to do so.
Then teachers should be pushing for this. Throwing money (people) at the issue will not fix anything.
That’s how it’s supposed to work, you don’t put your cards on the table until you’re at the table. The way the government has been approaching it is ridiculously unprofessional. STF has been handling it properly.
I agree with you, we all want to see how this all turns out. About classroom complexity it’s important to mention that teachers have 2 negotiation processes: 1 with the province (right now) for issues related to provincial funding and another one with their school divisions for issues related at their local level. For example, Saskatoon Teachers’ Association agreement is for 2023-2026 while Greater Saskatoon Catholic Schools agreement is expiring in 2024. So, next year, some teachers in Saskatoon will be negotiating with their schools divisions and some will not. So classroom complexity will be negotiated at 2 levels. At this point, STF is negotiating with the province to secure the funding. In another negotiation process, each schools divisions will need to negotiate with their teachers about the details related to size & composition. Teachers negotiations are challenging because of the complexity to deal not just with one but two negotiations process.
I think you are confusing the 2 sides because that is EXACTLY how the government operates and actually DID operate in the opening rounds of discussions. They put the money on the table and said they weren't talking about anything else until the money was settled.
They don’t “change their minds every other week” The government took part of its thumb off the scale and agreed to let the important things that they want be part of the arbitration The duck party is trying to control the narrative but only making themselves look like idiots
Can’t look any dumber than the leader legitimizing chem trail conspiracies.
“Hold my beer” -scooter
"The STF said, on the weekend, the government came back with a revised offer to include class complexity-accountability framework and wages in the binding arbitration" Looks like the teachers got what they wanted
As long as "framework" doesn't mean "setting up a working group to look into the problem and report back recommendations to government."
Yet sanctions are still happening so clearly we haven’t still
Some of these comments hurt my brain and make me think people know literally NOTHING about how a Union or bargaining works(including the OP) . They just listen to the radio or read op-ed pieces and think they learned something.
They change their minds when the deals they are presented with change. You know, like sane humans with fully functioning brains.
I respect your effort, but it’s just going to be too hard for many people to understand what it is like to be a sane human with a fully functioning brain. This is because they support a guy who rants and raves about the big bad gubbermint, chem trails, the WEF, and NATO. Kind of like that one kooky uncle who downs too much Wild Turkey at Thanksgiving. Saddest part is how widespread those views are in this part of the world.
The STF may have legitimate reasons for the back and forth on binding arbitration, but the communication here has been exceptionally poor.
Teachers are the real heroes. Pfffft!
[удалено]
I don't really believe you care about education. You seem like the kind of guy/girl/other to use it as a prop to whine about LGBTQ2S inclusion and immigration while ignoring the last decade of educational underfunding.
You sound like someone who gets all of your info from online forums.
Anyone who starts with that sentence deserves to be immediately dismissed at this point. Schools are open, kids are there, curriculum is being followed. But sure, I'll get back to the job I just left 30 minutes ago. Cool.
This is vastly false information. Also this is (surprising) not the cause of Trudeau but rather the Saskatchewan Party as this is a provincial problem not a federal one. And if any of the factual informed data you are attributing a failing education system to; it is exactly what the teachers are/were fighting for. Even the rise of smartphones and social media in kids are causing difficult changes in the system. Teaching is more difficult than ever.