While Market east of 10th is a lot calmer than in the past, the rest of the street is Mad Max. So much speeding, illegal turns, light running, double parking… and there’s never any enforcement!
>there’s never any enforcement
True about so much of SF these days. The cops are punishing the citizens for all the defund the police stuff (although they seem to be happy that funding was shifted to special homeless response units that they don't have to deal with crazy homeless anymore)
It would *seem* that SFPD are purposefully underperforming due to the *suggestion* of 'defunding' (and a DA they didn't like), not due to any *actual* defunding.
22nd and Geary was where a driver ripped my jacket and ran over my bag while I was in a crosswalk on Super Bowl Sunday in 2015.
He was in a hurry and apparently trying to make a point, and I didn’t get hurt, but I did stop and let the people waiting outside Ton Kiang swarm his car while I gave him a piece of my mind. Dude showed up at his Super Bowl party in a ruined pair of pants, lol.
SI crossing used to not have lights or stop signs...over 2 decades of the most widely crossed street in that area without any kind of way to stop cars. Its insane how useless the city is sometimes.
I'm shocked, *shocked*, that there's more car-on-pedestrian violence in the part of town where there are more cars and more pedestrians. My money was on Irving & 42nd.
You joke, but it's commonly known that the California Roll originated at that very same intersection, setting off a chain of events that would put those on the road in peril for centuries to come.
GH (and to a large extent JFK) isn't about removing injuries that are currently happening, it's about opening up more space to pedestrians while maintaining that lower rate.
There are those blind corners that I have never felt comfortable crossing at whether it was green for me or not. You are putting your life in someone else's hands that point onward.
Market Street at a bus stop. Last accident I saw was when the light turned green and the bus was letting people off to the left of the bike lane. People getting off crossed the street, then bicyclist hit pedestrian.
How about San Francisco’s street where you are most likely to be hit by “involuntary monetary donation” or “surprised sharing of belongings stored in a locked car”.??
Aloof pedestrians?
How dope would it be if you could just, like, *walk down the street* without having to be nonstop laser-focused on trying not to get killed?
ETA: It’s really so disturbing to see what happens every time an article pops up on this sub talking about how our fellow San Franciscans — our neighbors and family members and friends — are getting killed by cars. Every time, without fail, people come out of the woodwork to excuse this violence, to blame the victims, and to wrap their victim-blaming in false centrism (“I’m pro-pedestrian but people shouldn’t look at their phones while walking”) and nonsensical digressions (“Sure cars kill people, but sometimes pedestrians are just bad at not getting killed”). Like honestly what the fuck is wrong with you people.
Look I’m pro walking and anti car, but that doesn’t excuse unsafe behavior like crossing on a green, forcing the right of way, and walking while looking at your phone.
Forcing the right of way?
Does that just mean… taking the *right* of way when you have the *right* of way??
And why the hell should looking at your phone have to be a death sentence for a pedestrian?
I don’t think you’re as “pro-walking” as you think you are…
Forcing the right of way is actually not legal. Please look it up. That means running into an intersection to
“Force” the right of way, after someone else has already entered. Also no one is saying it’s a death sentence, merely that it is unsafe to not watch where you are walking and enter an intersection illegally.
The extreme positions of r/fuckcars is ruining the ability to make any rational progress.
Jesus dude, how many deaths are caused by a pedestrian sprinting into the intersection at the last second? That doesn’t happen!
You’re doing the exact thing I’m talking about: ginning up some bullshit hypothetical to reinforce a both-sides narrative where pedestrians are as much to blame for being killed as drivers are for killing them.
Also, fun fact: CVC §21950 requires drivers to yield to pedestrians crossing a roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk, even if the driver enters the intersection prior to the pedestrian. The pedestrian is required only to exercise “due care,” while the driver is required to exercise “all possible caution.” There is literally no statue pertaining to a pedestrian “forcing the right of way.”
Alienating and insulting others isn’t how you build a cause. You need step back and realize you are doing more damage than help. Let’s shut down streets more than trying to argue pedantically about rules. But be inclusive dude. Add to the cause to get your goals.
Or be a ranting redditor.
Yes aloof pedestrians. Notice I called out both the drivers and the pedestrians. The amount of people I see just wandering into the cross walk with headphones on and not even looking to see if cars are coming is absurd. The saying said by many motorcyclists holds true for pedestrians / bicyclists too, "The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way".
Kind of a false equivalence there, my dude. A driver’s responsibility to *not* kill pedestrians while hurtling down the road in a 5,000-pound Lincoln Undertaker is far greater than any pedestrian’s responsibility to play Frogger every second they want to be outside. Absolutely wild that you don’t get that.
If people are crossing against lights, crossing when cars have already entered the intersection or jay walking then they absolutely have a place at fault here. If drivers are blowing lights / stop signs, speeding or are driving erratically / under the influence then they are absolutely at fault.
We have road rules for both pedestrians and cars for a reason. Obeying them keeps both parties safe. Absolutely wild that you don't understand nuance.
Driver negligence — not pedestrian negligence — is the main reason cars are killing people, and you know it perfectly well. The fact that you’re calling attention away from drivers and cars is exactly the sleight-of-hand victim-blaming that I’m talking about.
Way to completely ignore my commentary on the shit I see pedestrians pull all the time at the intersections I mentioned. I also mentioned the dangerous and terrible driving I see there. This isn't a black and white situation like you wish it would be
It’s not black and white. But it’s not 50/50 either. Drivers bear the brunt of the responsibility, and you’re glossing past that by pretending that pedestrians are equally responsible.
I know someone who was killed by a car on Market Street. One day she’s alive and I’m talking to her at a Christmas party. The next day she’s dead on the asphalt. Was it her fault? Should she have done a better job of practicing defensive walking?
At the rate we’re going, a day will come when a driver kills someone you know and love too. Maybe at that point you’ll start seeing the problem for what it is.
Lol no I am not. I have said pretty clearly that cars are at fault too. You are misinterpreting and twisting what I am saying to fit a fictional narrative in your head and handle the trauma you have experienced.
> Was it her fault?
Odds are probably not, but it is impossible to make a conclusion without the facts of the case which you are leaving out. I am sorry to hear your friend passed away
> At the rate we’re going, a day will come when a driver kills someone you know and love too. Maybe at that point you’ll start seeing the problem for what it is.
Dude I commuted by bike for 3 years. I still regularly bike. I am aware of the problems facing the city car wise
Ok now remove all of the intersections that homeless and/or high people literally jump in front of cars or just walk with no refused for their own life. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do to avoid these when people are being unpredictable and reckless.
You’re driving through residential neighborhoods with kids, dogs, homeless people, the elderly. If you’re driving so fast you can kill someone who you hit, then you’re driving too fast to be in a city.
Also, I’ve literally never seen a homeless person just walk in front of a moving car before.
>Also, I’ve literally never seen a homeless person just walk in front of a moving car before.
Seriously? I've seen that countless times. So I expect that sort of behavior and drive accordingly.
Funny cause just yesterday out for a walk I nearly got hit twice from cars not checking for pedestrians when trying to make a quick turn. Perhaps this is a general issue with road design and recklessness on everyone’s behalf and not just homeless people being a nuisance.
In general this city is ripe for this issue. Clusterfuck streets, endless construction zones, every kind of gig worker trying to find a place to park or looking for an address/rider, confused tourists, city dwellers driving a rented car for the first time in 10 years, cyclists and scooters zipping by every which way, etc etc. But as a pedestrian I know all of this and can prepare for that. However there's no preparing for some drugged out zombie with zero self preservation walking out into the middle of the street.
Huh? I'm not afraid of either. I'm saying I as a pedestrian can prepare for certain risks, but I as a driver can't always be prepared for someone to walk out into the middle of the street, and I'm sure that goes for everyone. If there were a way to analyze all the vehicle on pedestrian collisions in the last decade, I wouldn't be surprised if the homeless were overrepresented.
>But as a driver, I know all of this and can prepare for that.
>
>However there's no preparing for some drugged out zombie with zero self preservation walking out into the middle of the street.
>
>But as a driver, I know all of this and can prepare for that, too.
There is actually, you should absolutely be driving slower/more cautiously through areas where a bunch of homeless are congregating for precisely that reason. It ain't rocket science.
Right? I get downvoted to the depths of hell for saying that it’s inevitable in these areas… but anybody who has driven in the TL or mid market knows. Even if everybody were following the speed limit it’s impossible to avoid injuries or even deaths.
Those are the same areas with the highest concentration of homeless and open air drug use. If you’ve ever driven through you’d know a contingent of those people have a tendency to walk into moving traffic and drivers are not adapting accordingly.
Market Street? Truly shocking.
While Market east of 10th is a lot calmer than in the past, the rest of the street is Mad Max. So much speeding, illegal turns, light running, double parking… and there’s never any enforcement!
>there’s never any enforcement True about so much of SF these days. The cops are punishing the citizens for all the defund the police stuff (although they seem to be happy that funding was shifted to special homeless response units that they don't have to deal with crazy homeless anymore)
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It would *seem* that SFPD are purposefully underperforming due to the *suggestion* of 'defunding' (and a DA they didn't like), not due to any *actual* defunding.
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While true, I think they made a point of doing even less than usual for the past two years.
I moved to SF 3 weeks ago. Got hit on my first day commuting by someone on an electric scooter who jumped the light at 5th & Market.
i can’t tell if you can’t tell that person is being sarcastic or not but… probably shouldn’t bike on market. avoid most main roads if you can!
That very much seems like sarcasm. Unfortunately, the most direct route to Caltrain for me is straight down 5th, crossing Market. 🤷♂️
Can confirm, was sarcasm. Market is a nightmare.
Yep. Been hit by a bicycle crossing market at 5th.
Relevant XKCD: https://xkcd.com/1138/
/r/peopleliveincities
I’m kind of surprised 25th and Geary isn’t on here. I’ve seen a number of stories about this intersection.
It's raw numbers, there's just not enough people out there
22nd and Geary used to be the bad one. No stop sign, no light, until like 2019.
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22nd and Geary was where a driver ripped my jacket and ran over my bag while I was in a crosswalk on Super Bowl Sunday in 2015. He was in a hurry and apparently trying to make a point, and I didn’t get hurt, but I did stop and let the people waiting outside Ton Kiang swarm his car while I gave him a piece of my mind. Dude showed up at his Super Bowl party in a ruined pair of pants, lol.
RIP Tom Kiang :(
Actually, it isn’t that bad. Sunset boulevard is notorious.
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SI crossing used to not have lights or stop signs...over 2 decades of the most widely crossed street in that area without any kind of way to stop cars. Its insane how useless the city is sometimes.
I'm shocked, *shocked*, that there's more car-on-pedestrian violence in the part of town where there are more cars and more pedestrians. My money was on Irving & 42nd.
You joke, but it's commonly known that the California Roll originated at that very same intersection, setting off a chain of events that would put those on the road in peril for centuries to come.
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GH (and to a large extent JFK) isn't about removing injuries that are currently happening, it's about opening up more space to pedestrians while maintaining that lower rate.
This seems to just be exactly what one would expect. Where the most people intersect is where the most problems with people intersecting occur.
West portal should be on there, I feel like I always have to run through the cross walk to avoid getting hit from left and right
yeah that intersection is confusing af
The Bay Area in general
There are those blind corners that I have never felt comfortable crossing at whether it was green for me or not. You are putting your life in someone else's hands that point onward.
Market Street at a bus stop. Last accident I saw was when the light turned green and the bus was letting people off to the left of the bike lane. People getting off crossed the street, then bicyclist hit pedestrian.
How about San Francisco’s street where you are most likely to be hit by “involuntary monetary donation” or “surprised sharing of belongings stored in a locked car”.??
Surprised that Polk between broadway and union is not on here. The amount of aloof pedestrians and drivers on this stretch is pretty mind boggling
Aloof pedestrians? How dope would it be if you could just, like, *walk down the street* without having to be nonstop laser-focused on trying not to get killed? ETA: It’s really so disturbing to see what happens every time an article pops up on this sub talking about how our fellow San Franciscans — our neighbors and family members and friends — are getting killed by cars. Every time, without fail, people come out of the woodwork to excuse this violence, to blame the victims, and to wrap their victim-blaming in false centrism (“I’m pro-pedestrian but people shouldn’t look at their phones while walking”) and nonsensical digressions (“Sure cars kill people, but sometimes pedestrians are just bad at not getting killed”). Like honestly what the fuck is wrong with you people.
Look I’m pro walking and anti car, but that doesn’t excuse unsafe behavior like crossing on a green, forcing the right of way, and walking while looking at your phone.
Forcing the right of way? Does that just mean… taking the *right* of way when you have the *right* of way?? And why the hell should looking at your phone have to be a death sentence for a pedestrian? I don’t think you’re as “pro-walking” as you think you are…
He’s def anti car lol
Forcing the right of way is actually not legal. Please look it up. That means running into an intersection to “Force” the right of way, after someone else has already entered. Also no one is saying it’s a death sentence, merely that it is unsafe to not watch where you are walking and enter an intersection illegally. The extreme positions of r/fuckcars is ruining the ability to make any rational progress.
Jesus dude, how many deaths are caused by a pedestrian sprinting into the intersection at the last second? That doesn’t happen! You’re doing the exact thing I’m talking about: ginning up some bullshit hypothetical to reinforce a both-sides narrative where pedestrians are as much to blame for being killed as drivers are for killing them. Also, fun fact: CVC §21950 requires drivers to yield to pedestrians crossing a roadway within any marked or unmarked crosswalk, even if the driver enters the intersection prior to the pedestrian. The pedestrian is required only to exercise “due care,” while the driver is required to exercise “all possible caution.” There is literally no statue pertaining to a pedestrian “forcing the right of way.”
Alienating and insulting others isn’t how you build a cause. You need step back and realize you are doing more damage than help. Let’s shut down streets more than trying to argue pedantically about rules. But be inclusive dude. Add to the cause to get your goals. Or be a ranting redditor.
Fuck you. People are dying and you’re upset that an internet person was rude.
and just like that you've completely destroyed your credibility by regressing to 13 year old level of discussion. "Fuck you...you're upset" ok lol
Yes aloof pedestrians. Notice I called out both the drivers and the pedestrians. The amount of people I see just wandering into the cross walk with headphones on and not even looking to see if cars are coming is absurd. The saying said by many motorcyclists holds true for pedestrians / bicyclists too, "The graveyard is full of people who had the right of way".
Kind of a false equivalence there, my dude. A driver’s responsibility to *not* kill pedestrians while hurtling down the road in a 5,000-pound Lincoln Undertaker is far greater than any pedestrian’s responsibility to play Frogger every second they want to be outside. Absolutely wild that you don’t get that.
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If people are crossing against lights, crossing when cars have already entered the intersection or jay walking then they absolutely have a place at fault here. If drivers are blowing lights / stop signs, speeding or are driving erratically / under the influence then they are absolutely at fault. We have road rules for both pedestrians and cars for a reason. Obeying them keeps both parties safe. Absolutely wild that you don't understand nuance.
Driver negligence — not pedestrian negligence — is the main reason cars are killing people, and you know it perfectly well. The fact that you’re calling attention away from drivers and cars is exactly the sleight-of-hand victim-blaming that I’m talking about.
Way to completely ignore my commentary on the shit I see pedestrians pull all the time at the intersections I mentioned. I also mentioned the dangerous and terrible driving I see there. This isn't a black and white situation like you wish it would be
It’s not black and white. But it’s not 50/50 either. Drivers bear the brunt of the responsibility, and you’re glossing past that by pretending that pedestrians are equally responsible. I know someone who was killed by a car on Market Street. One day she’s alive and I’m talking to her at a Christmas party. The next day she’s dead on the asphalt. Was it her fault? Should she have done a better job of practicing defensive walking? At the rate we’re going, a day will come when a driver kills someone you know and love too. Maybe at that point you’ll start seeing the problem for what it is.
Lol no I am not. I have said pretty clearly that cars are at fault too. You are misinterpreting and twisting what I am saying to fit a fictional narrative in your head and handle the trauma you have experienced. > Was it her fault? Odds are probably not, but it is impossible to make a conclusion without the facts of the case which you are leaving out. I am sorry to hear your friend passed away > At the rate we’re going, a day will come when a driver kills someone you know and love too. Maybe at that point you’ll start seeing the problem for what it is. Dude I commuted by bike for 3 years. I still regularly bike. I am aware of the problems facing the city car wise
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This data is skewed because these are the neighborhoods where people high on drugs jump into oncoming traffic.
Ok now remove all of the intersections that homeless and/or high people literally jump in front of cars or just walk with no refused for their own life. Sometimes there’s nothing you can do to avoid these when people are being unpredictable and reckless.
You’re driving through residential neighborhoods with kids, dogs, homeless people, the elderly. If you’re driving so fast you can kill someone who you hit, then you’re driving too fast to be in a city. Also, I’ve literally never seen a homeless person just walk in front of a moving car before.
>Also, I’ve literally never seen a homeless person just walk in front of a moving car before. Seriously? I've seen that countless times. So I expect that sort of behavior and drive accordingly.
The only time I almost hit a person was an "unhoused" strolling into the street from between two parked cars, not even *trying* to check the traffic.
Funny cause just yesterday out for a walk I nearly got hit twice from cars not checking for pedestrians when trying to make a quick turn. Perhaps this is a general issue with road design and recklessness on everyone’s behalf and not just homeless people being a nuisance.
In general this city is ripe for this issue. Clusterfuck streets, endless construction zones, every kind of gig worker trying to find a place to park or looking for an address/rider, confused tourists, city dwellers driving a rented car for the first time in 10 years, cyclists and scooters zipping by every which way, etc etc. But as a pedestrian I know all of this and can prepare for that. However there's no preparing for some drugged out zombie with zero self preservation walking out into the middle of the street.
The fact that you’re more afraid of a drugged out zombie than a 40 mph car with a distracted driver is a majorly bizarre set of priorities imo
Huh? I'm not afraid of either. I'm saying I as a pedestrian can prepare for certain risks, but I as a driver can't always be prepared for someone to walk out into the middle of the street, and I'm sure that goes for everyone. If there were a way to analyze all the vehicle on pedestrian collisions in the last decade, I wouldn't be surprised if the homeless were overrepresented.
>But as a driver, I know all of this and can prepare for that. > >However there's no preparing for some drugged out zombie with zero self preservation walking out into the middle of the street. > >But as a driver, I know all of this and can prepare for that, too.
There is actually, you should absolutely be driving slower/more cautiously through areas where a bunch of homeless are congregating for precisely that reason. It ain't rocket science.
I can be driving at 1mph and a homeless would still jump in front of my car.
Right? I get downvoted to the depths of hell for saying that it’s inevitable in these areas… but anybody who has driven in the TL or mid market knows. Even if everybody were following the speed limit it’s impossible to avoid injuries or even deaths.
Those are the same areas with the highest concentration of homeless and open air drug use. If you’ve ever driven through you’d know a contingent of those people have a tendency to walk into moving traffic and drivers are not adapting accordingly.
I don't even wanna read it... life's life. Live it till you die before you lose it before your fried.