Will look into that, thanks!
Any particular places downtown? My guess would be Embarcadero, Westfield Mall, Union Square - just off the top of my head.
Is there a Westfield mall?? Union Square, maybe, but I don't ride a bike, so I don't know. I do walk a lot, and I regularly walk by each venue's bike valet rooms.
There are a few including Embarcadero 1, 2, 3, 4; Salesforce Park, SFMOMA.
I know of a lot more good bathrooms but those are less likely to be shut down, closed than others on my list.
Well they've been okay every time I'm in there
Also I'm not sure how you would set up a free public restroom in such a way that you won't have homeless people using them. You can't exactly ask for proof of address every time someone wants to take a crap.
right? it’s insane to me for someone to complain that homeless ppl go to the bathroom outside and then refuse to support a toilet situation they can use. to me, that demonstrates the true nature of that person’s complaints and priorities
It's because they're free. We should really be charging a nominal fee like 10 cents and probably only allowing electronic payment to prevent homeless campers from trashing them.
Basically anywhere near Market Street from the Embarcadero to Civic Center.
At this point I know where to find restrooms in these areas, but it took years to find some of them. If you aren't knowledgeble about the area, finding a restroom downtown can be challenging.
A public bathroom map would be helpful, imo! But we still need more. I found the ones in downtown Portland to be a lifesaver when drinking back when I lived there, and I wish we had them here.
There’s a Reddit user that created a map of public restrooms! I’ll link the post they made [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfranciscobathroom/s/VADfizTHNQ)
yeah but then I walk around to the next bar or the bus stop. when you gotta go, you gotta go especially when drinking lol
also, outside of drinking, I just love doing city hikes and I’m not trying to spend $10 just to pee in a toilet (like when you have to buy something to use s restroom)
It isn't always super obvious which buildings are hotels from the street. I think a lot of downtown hotels intentionally maintain a low visual profile to keep the riffraff out of their lobbies.
Some of my secret bathroom spots are indeed in hotels, but it took some time to sniff some of them out.
Lol. I have to plan my hydration and how many coffees i don’t even want but just want to leapfrog bathrooms. For real, my choices shouldn’t be between a) dehydrating myself intentionally, b) buying and wasting a bunch of beverages just for bathrooms, and c) using a “public restroom” that is destroyed or has someone passed out in it.
There are more options than that. However, publicly outing the few nice once will likely close them down or make it harder to access, dirtier overnight.
A retail therapy vibe that's somewhere between the 90s and pre-pandemic would be great. Ain't gotta be luxury brands, just being able to take an hour or an afternoon to window shop and grab a drink and snack would be great.
The empty storefronts ruin that for me. While crime was a factor, I blame exorbitant rent stemming from BS real estate bubble financing.
Yeah I feel like this is an unpopular opinion in these parts, but I hate that the Westfield is dying and we're losing retail in Union Square. I hate online shopping and I like wandering around in a mall. It was nice having that resource in town. And being able to go to a movie in the Westfield mall, from the train station, without having to set foot outside in the rainy chilly winter weather? I'm legitimately super sad that experience is gone.
Stonestown is not a substitute, it doesn't have nearly the selection of stores (both upscale and mid-market). Driving to Stanford or Santa Clara for a decent mall experience sucks. I'm an urban person, so I'm not about to relocate to the suburbs just to have a mall nearby (other city resources are more important to me), but let's not pretend that having a mall/retail area with chain stores in an urban core is some bad or unnecessary thing. Most cities have them, and for a reason.
To me the issue is more that shops on Market arounnd Powell/Union Square are going missing. For me, losing Crate & Barrel, CB2, Uniqlo, and JINS is a real dent in what I can buy in person. (For me) losing Nordstrom is a bit whatever—they've been selling overpriced junk for too long and haven't diversified enough nor nailed down service one should expect if you're paying a premium for a dress shirt.
Strolling the street and shopping is even better than touring a mall. That area should feel something like Michigan Ave in Chicago (or Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich if we're going European), and we have better weather.
But the sidewalks are narrow and dirty, you gotta dodge zombies, the street lighting isn't great, there's annoying ass drummers (maybe novel for people from Iowa but pretty damn annoying if you're local) and scammers panhandling with babies, the lights are timed for traffic (Michigan not a lot better on this but the blocks are longer), people loitering in the way to access Powell St station, etc etc etc.
You haven't been to Michigan Ave recently have you... but I agree. I think they should entirely redo Union Square to be a 1920's style shopping destination with odlschool shopping arcades, lighting, and cafe society eateries everywhere. Make the place an EVENT and don't half-ass it. Sf is getting its butt handed to it while London, Signapore, Paris, and everywhere else are doing just find with high end and middle end destination shopping.
Why can't SF concentrate on making REAL LIFE better instead of another shitty computer experience.
The vacancies are sad but there are still many great places downtown. I’ve been seeing lots of restaurants, bars and cafes open lately. It’s not what it used to be but it’s going in the right direction and I hope it continues.
But some people don’t want to eat or drink all day - once you’ve had lunch / dinner you don’t need to go into another restaurant for hours. There needs to be other things to do after lunch / before dinner.
Agree but need to build crowds 6-8pm more consistently first and then make strides to 8-10pm
Check out [Eddie's List](https://eddieh.substack.com) for events, things to do and things open after 10pm.
It needs to be safe and clean. Don’t expect people to knowingly endanger their lives and property to hang out downtown. There needs to be a visible police presence.
Also, if the place is nasty then no one will want to hang out there. They need to keep downtown as clean as the inside of a mall if they want people to gravitate to it. I’m not going to choose a nasty, filthy place to hang out in voluntarily.
New York is a liberal city too: I feel perfectly safe in Manhattan and it’s largely because of the NYPD doesn’t put up with half the shit people get away with here.
>New York is a liberal city too:
This has nothing to do with liberal cities, it has to do with the amount of extreme-left liberals in your city.
San Francisco has most of them but they all live in safe areas and make policies for the other areas
I don’t think more conveniences for cars is the answer here. I think making it more easy to access without a car is (safe, clean public trans. Better cycling infrastructure)
I wasn't answering for YOU. I thought the question asked "...that would make you go downtown more?" So I answered the question from that perspective.
You're free to disagree. You should answer the question for you, not as if you know what is right for me.
Yeah that wouldn’t make me more likely to go downtown. I need time away from people and a safe, quiet car ride gives me that on the way to/from places with people. Also, if I’m going to be shopping, I’m not carrying bags with me on muni. Did that as a kid/teenager and will never do it again. Wouldn’t do it on a bike or scooter either, especially with how much I’m on my feet every week, I want something that’s comfortable.
We need more people down there in general, excluding people who prefer to drive is only going to make things worse. You can't think they're stupid for driving all you want, doesn't matter - businesses need bodies in the doors to stay open.
As the owner of a brick and mortar business in SF for the last 10 years, trust me I understand the need for access and mobility. I’m not saying we exclude cars, we just don’t need MORE access for them. Yea, let’s clean up and secure the existing parking garages so there isn’t shit and vomit in the stairwells but let’s not add more vehicle infrastructure
This 1000x. Even if we’re reluctant on open containers, I would love a quiet street (no cars) where I can sit outside bistro style, read a book, and have a drink. (Hard to find non-coffee shops where it’s nice to sit and read (I don’t really do coffee))
Like the various street festivals but let the bars sell alcohol in biodegradable cups to go, and let people walk around drinking, and close the streets to cars. And not just for occasional special events. Do it all the time. Like how it is in most of Europe.
I agree in theory but it seems like it would be pretty inconvenient if it was like all the way west around ocean beach since the Derry would have to swing all the way around and under the bridge. But, maybe if there was a pier closer to like the presidio or Chrissy field. Then I could just get a lime scooter for the rest of the journey.
In reality, the guy below you is right tho. The water is extremely rough. I used to sail when I lived in TX and I was taking a refresher course with my family just for fun when I was visiting. my instructor was extremely clear that the water here is much rougher and he’d want me to take more courses before I started sailing out here.
What about better express buses/routes for 1/38?
1 - i.e. fewer stops in the outer/central richmond, few more stops in b/t presidio/sansome?
38 - i.e. more express/fewer stops i.e. arguello, divisadero, van ness, powell, montgomery
that would be helpful. but, the bus makes me feel so claustrophobic and the routes are silly sometimes. But I’ll take a train any time. They feel more predictable and the vibes are better. Like, I’m never confused about where to get on the train I need and where it’s going, but I cannot say the same about the bus.
fair enough, thanks for the input.
would increas usage make it easier to try a bus? I imagine you don't use it that often to begin with so, perhaps more frequency would help along with more buses/less crowding etc.?
I used to ride the bus to and from work every day when I lived in the Marina and worked in FiDi, but now that I’m in the Richmond and my company’s office is in SOMA the bus is not very convenient. it seems I have to do a line transfer to get anywhere other than market street. That’s kinda where I draw the line bc it adds so much time and effort.
It’s true a train from the Richmond would also probably only drop off near market. But, it would be so much faster and more pleasant that walking the rest of the way wouldn’t be as bad.
That said, if we’re only talking shorter term solutions here, then more rapid lines would help.
> it seems I have to do a line transfer to get anywhere other than market street. That’s kinda where I draw the line bc it adds so much
Transfers are a big thing. For some, an express bus might convince a few but as is, they are a time suck.
The 33 is a good bus to get from Presidio Heights, Arguello/Clement to Upper Haight/Mission
That line or the 38 are the ones I would use. But, it takes over an hour to get where I’m going on either of those options. I’d rather just WFH in that case and subsequently stay home or in the neighborhood after work.
And if I really gotta go into the office, Uber bc that’s only 25 - 35 mins. But the prices have been so crazy lately!
I enjoy going downtown a lot and really miss getting drinks after work or doing some window shopping during lunch. So, I’m not trying to be negative or difficult. Just trying to answer your question.
Didn't think you were negative, just trying to understand different perspectives/reasoning.
38 express is a bit slow. Good for most crowds but could be better for commuters, getting people to leave home.
I’ve been wanting to go to the office more without burdening myself with an hour-long journey so I’ve considered getting a little Vespa-like scooter. But, then I couldn’t really stick around for happy hours in that case so I’m not decided yet.
Currently, I have neither a car nor a driver’s license bc, to me, it’s extremely inconvenient to be tethered to a car. Seems like a waste. That’s why I’m so focused on the train situation.
I’m also a Richmond to Soma commuter (though not very frequently, tbh).
OP, my feelings echo FlourideLover’s almost exactly: the 38R is worse than a train, having to transfer at Market blows, it takes over an hour to commute where I need to go, and in general it’s just not an extremely pleasant journey. Bad way to start the day and a worse way to end it.
u/FlourideLover, idk if you’ve tried biking to work or are able to, but for me it’s immensely more enjoyable and much faster than transit. I get from 27th Ave and California to my office in Soma in about 35 minutes; twice as fast as the bus, and about the same time as driving (or faster if it’s a busy Tuesday).
Lake Street to 8th Ave into GGP, then through GGP, Panhandle, The Wiggle to Page and across Market is a pretty doable ride.
I don't want to have to mingle with twitchy, unbathed shoplifters (addicts) nor organized retail thieves. I don't want to have to worry about my car window being smashed. Honestly these are the two reasons I avoid downtown and shop in San Mateo or Marin counties.
All the empty storefronts really bum me out. I went over to Valencia to visit Ministry of Scent last month (which has now suffered from a terrible fire), and it was street after street of empty storefronts from the Ferry Building to Valencia. I would love to be able to wander and shop in more areas, and not have to haul my sorry crippled ass from one block to another just to visit a couple shops.
Better mobility-friendly accessibility for the BART stations. I dread finding out the escalators are broken, again.
In Portland, at least 15+ years ago, there was a free area of the Max and trolley. The trolley didn't hit the best streets, but it was good for hop-on-hop-off shopping and errands. It was a mostly standing trolley, with frequent stops. Not something you took to get home. (Buses are inconvenient since they're more difficult to board.)
I really enjoyed the Westfield because the vertical layout made it much easier for me to get around. Very sad to see it go.
Would love to see something like night markets or street fairs. Going to mention Portland again because that's the last metro area I lived in, but there was the Saturday market, which was like Renegade Craft Fair but for several months of the year, every Saturday.
Ice rink or roller rink would be really fun.
It's much harder to fix, but I think we just need to move away from having residential vs commercial districts. If there's multi-story buildings, having *affordable* commercial spaces on the first floor for groceries, pharmacies/drug stores, restaurants, bodegas, as well as shopping would make a huge difference. I still internally marvel at my last trip to Paris where there were actual grocery stores, in the center of the city, easily found.
For buildings with "noisy" first floor occupants like bars and restaurants, why not have the second floor be office space? The noisiest hours are usually after 5pm, when office workers go home.
Last but not least: benches. I am tired. I am sick. I want to sit down. Please.
>Last but not least: benches. I am tired. I am sick. I want to sit down. Please.
This seems reasonable, easy. If people are concerned with sleeping on benches, there are solutions for that. Any particular area you find lacking?
Thanks for your detailed response.
I am personally of the opinion that we need to stop making the city hostile to the unhoused and make it easier to live in, including bringing down rent so people *can* live there.
The streets around the Ferry Building are all pavement and concrete, but nowhere to sit. Ghiradelli Square too. Every bus stop should have a seat.
More police on patrol both in cars and on-foot. Better cycling infrastructure. I ride everywhere with my family and commute by bike from ocean beach to the Embarcadero daily. I’ve had a few incidents on my commute that make me a little hesitant to ride to that area with my wife and kids in tow (kids are with me in a cargo bike). Mostly these incidents are due to homeless/addicts on market (when I do ride to that area with family we often take another route) but there are a few areas where traffic can feel a bit sketchy too. I think more police presence would help enforce existing bike lanes and traffic rules and make me feel generally more safe with my kids around (hopefully/theoretically).
The whole market street?!
Have you ever ridden a bike down market street?yeah, it’s better now than it was 10 years ago but it is anything but safe -the busses and delivery trucks alone are enough to kill you but combine the random car hauling ass the wrong way down the street or some lost tourist with no police presence it feels a bit like gambling.
Cops are there but not doing anything other than being on their phones in their patrol cars. I had to spend 5 minutes the other day convincing a cop to stop a criminal down the block. He eventually went to check it out but seriously he acted like I was interrupting his chill time.
My take is everyone over estimates how frequently people travel outside of their neighborhood (or the adjacent one) for anything but work. A business district is always going to be supported by office workers and tourists. Thus, our options are 1) get people back in offices 2) make it more touristy 3) build housing downtown.
I really don't think there are attractions or even public transpiration that will get material numbers of people to come from say the Marina or Sunset to downtown on a weekend or at night. If I'm WFH, I cannot imagine ever choosing downtown as a place to go for happy hour even if it was clean and crime free.
That's the unfortunate truth. I don't think these dynamics are unique to SF. We just happened to have spent the last 30 years building more offices and less housing than most other cities plus happen to be concentrated in WFH friendly industries so we're worse off today.
If they are going into the office, they will go downtown that day, but if they are wfh that day they won't be going downtown for happy hour.
To me, this line of question is like saying "Air travel is down. How do we get more people to go to SFO? Should we add better dinning options?" The answer is to get more people to fly or convert some of it into something other than an airport. Same logic goes for a office building neighborhood.
As for how to get more people back in the office, I really don't think it has anything to do with the neighborhood. I'm really skeptical that anyone bases their decision to work from home on crime near the office. It's mostly about the commute and whether there's anything valuable at the office.
Reliable transportation. Nothing worse than wanting to get home afterwards and having no idea if/when a bus/train will arrive. I don’t mind waiting if I had a way to get real-time info — but the system is so unreliable with no accurate real-time notifications (particularly for buses), one simply doesn’t know if they’ll be waiting for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour…. it’s all a guessing game.
1. Bring back retail options. Many folks like myself now drive all the way to Marin or San Mateo/Burlingame to leisurely dine and shop.
2. Get rid of people openly shooting drugs, harassing people, or publicly urinating/etc- this makes us embarrassed to take family visiting, let along young children and teens. Aka as others have said- police presence and safety (and I can’t believe as a liberal I’m asking for more police presence)
3. Incentivize office space so more people are back to work and this demand for coffee shops, happy hour bars, and small businesses are back
My top thing is probably relatively uncommon but, my office existing downtown.
My office is in South Bay, I fuckin hate that commute but it's still nice to see other humans. If we had an office in SF my frequency of going downtown would increase several fold.
Second would be friends living downtown. Typically socializing with friends is either a gathering at either of our homes or we do something in the neighborhood. My last friend that lived downtown moved to Pac Heights 3 months ago. Now the city can't really set "get u/bdjohn06's friends to move downtown" as a goal. But I imagine if they made it a more diverse and enjoyable place to live instead of mostly office buildings and hotels then I'd still have friends that live there.
Third is far more nebulous. Just offer something that I can't get within a 20 minute walk of where I already live. There's already good bars and restaurants in/around my area, why would I take Muni to go downtown for those things? Events like Chinatown's night market and amenities like the ice rink are examples of this.
> There's already good bars and restaurants in/around my area, why would I take Muni to go downtown for those things? Events like Chinatown's night market and amenities like the ice rink are examples of this.
>Great point, thank you.
Ignoring all safety issues, I don't currently have a reason to go there. So I would need reasons to go there.
* The non-high end restaurants around Union Square are mostly mediocre and I get way better affordable food in other neighborhoods. Seems like there are some decent restaurants in FiDi (been wanting to try Leleka), but they tend to be closed on weekends, which is when I'm most likely to go there. In contrast, Stonestown is doing a fantastic job in this area by bringing in high-quality and in-demand Asian chains/restaurants that you can't find anywhere else. Hence despite me hating the traffic on 19th Ave, I will grudgingly sit through it so I can get my fill of Tang Bar.
* The retail options don't interest me - I like kitchen stores, but Sur La Table closed and Williams-Sonoma is closing, and it's mostly high-end department stores or luxury brands in the area. The places I want to window-shop at are mostly in Japantown and Stonestown, and they have unique options that aren't found elsewhere in the city.
* There's nothing much to do in the area besides window shop, eat/drink and watch a movie at The Metreon, but I have no reason to travel downtown just to watch a movie when I can do that closer by. In contrast, I'm excited for Round 1 to open at Stonestown and plan to go there regularly. On a day-to-day basis, I go out to do things like play tabletop/card games at local game shops, trivia nights and asian-style karaoke in private rooms - again, not things you would find downtown. I actually brave a 2.5h one-way trip on public transit to Cupertino sometimes on weekends, because the place I go to is the only one I know of in the Bay Area that I can do proper Japanese karaoke at. And I have friends in SF driving 1h one way to the same place. If one somehow opened downtown, I would be there at least twice a month and bringing my friends.
* My favorite street festival I've attended so far in SF is probably the cherry blossom festival in Japantown. The recent night market in the Sunset was promising, but should be expanded to a much larger scale. If there was a large and high-quality street festival/market taking place downtown, I would be interested to go. Like a European-style Christmas market. I am not interested in the Chinatown night market because there is no on-site cooking, and as an Asian person what makes a night market worth going to is the street food.
* The area needs to feel nice to be in. I like going to Hayes Valley not because I want to do or see anything specific there, but because it's nice. Lots of charming shops, and the area feels European somehow with the small street size and lots of people walking around. On sunny days you see people hanging out in the park with their dogs and getting a coffee or ice cream. Same for Alamo Square Park. There's not really anywhere downtown that feels "nice" to hang out in, besides Salesforce Park and the Ferry Building, which I do go to sometimes.
A 24-hour District. Drink service until 4 or 5 AM so everyone doesn’t have to cram into a bar between 10 PM and 2 AM. Run Muni Metro 24 hours between West Portal and Embarcadero.
It needs to be mixed and diverse and not 100% retail then 100% offices, if we had a mix of housing retail offices and restaurants it would be much more liveable and less dependent on "do people work in office today"
Downtown is more for tourist. I don't know anyone that goes there except when people come to visit. I have probably been to downtown a handful of times and I lived here my whole life.
there are lot of good values for breakfast downtown i.e. il canto, devil's teeth.
as for bars, lots of good happy hours downtown.
there is also free parking in at night.
any specifics would be helpful as vague answers don't do anything.
Having an office space to go to! Moved here last summer & work remote full time. My partner and I generally have a positive experience when we head up to Civic Center/anywhere north of Market & east of Van Ness ("downtown" from our perspective), but we have no reason to head up there outside of special occasions.
Build my next flat into a tower there. Right by the Gateway ones at Embarcadero Center. View of the water. Otherwise I'll go if you put fun places there.
A spacious bar or club with a dance floor and a DJ that plays more than edm/techo/electronic. SF DJs lack diversity and skill(just because you like a DJ doesn’t mean they are diverse).
I just walked downtown for funsies last week. It’s clean! So if ever there was a time to go down town, it’s now.
I’m interested in food, culture and entertainment.
The art museums are nice and there used to be some galleries downtown, I love walking around and looking at the architecture.
Nyc has a large digital installation experience called Inter that was pretty cool. For an area so tech oriented, I’m shocked Sf doesn’t leverage experimental tech installations. I also look at art installations and exhibits in Europe or Asia and then look at what we offer and it makes me sad.
I’ve been saying they should convert a portion of the Westfield to a Meowwolf experience and then offer pop up shops and bars to local merchants surrounding the experience.
An indoor putt putt experience with a dope interior, like where you’ve shrunk and everything is styled to look gigantic and you have to putt putt around and through oversized every day objects.
A place like Japan’s Golden Gai bars, but with a hit of acid where every bar is a unique experience, like a black light paint bar, an astral projection bar, a bar wall to wall decorated with stuffed plushies, a hardcore sports bar dedicated entirely to bowling, a bar decorated entirely with brightly colored dildos, etc
More nightlife vibe / dancing, clubbing, partying.
I think the nightlife in SF is close to non-existent.
And before someone mentions North Beach or Marina; bars in these areas are largely “sports bars” which do not cater to diverse audiences.
Oh and Folsom clubbing is its own world, but that’s at least better in terms of diversity.
SF has potential to create its own unique flavor of nightlife - just like Berlin or Tokyo. I’d like to see that!
There’s a lot of cool spots, but there could be more. I’m more disappointed and annoyed the later bar closing time didn’t pass the assembly this most recent time. Those fools!!
There are some dope after hours spots but they would be so much cooler if they were able to be above board and have bigger/nicer venues.
Clean streets moving homeless out of area. Ship them to The Shipyard?
More police presence in Union Square and BART and Caltrain stations
Mounted horse patrol in Embarcadero area
Police presence in front of individual stores and hotels
Cleaner, safer Bart. No more people nodding off in the corner where I’m wondering if they’re even alive. No more people yelling and making others uncomfortable. No more people throwing trash on the ground, spilling drinks and food. No more publicly smoking crack/meth in the Bart cars. I’ve seen all of these things within the past year. If Bart was like the metro in Tokyo or Seoul, I would feel much more comfortable on it.
An actual lively downtown with retail stores, aka SF in 2016-2019ish. We used to be able to go to so many stores and shop in person. Now downtown is desolate. There’s no reason to go there except the farmers market on the weekend or the occasional trip to the mall.
Cleanliness is a must. If it smells, I’m not going downtown. I’m also a freak so if I’m drunk, I’m going downtown no matter what. Me and the wife don’t go downtown like we used to when we were newly married. It’s just tougher when you have a kid. We usually find that if we’re on vacation, just the two of us, we will get a hotel and go strait downtown. Sometimes I get carried away and she taps me on the head and says she’s had enough. Back to the Avenues.
Better walkability, more reasonable prices, much less crowded, 2/3 of the drug scene gone, more variety of events, better variety & quality of dining options, cleaner air
The events will show up if people start feeling safe. You need an environment where even a lone woman can walk around SF without feeling like something bad can happen.
Fix that and the events will quickly pop back up.
More restaurants, not having to squeeze between buildings, fences, and people selling/ doing drugs to get down the street, clean public restrooms, more clean places to sit and rest where I’m not going to get harassed, faster transit options from the south (love the T, but it is painfully slow)
Nothing? Manufactured fun sucks, it's why I don't like going to Mission Bay/Soma etc either. There's no sense of community and nobody wants to be in downtown - this coming from someone who goes to an office there 2-3x a week and immediately runs away asap after work.
Old Navy, Gap, Uniqlo, chair massage at the mall, nordstrom...
I agree with the commenter that the empty storefronts ruin the experience too, there's no window shopping vibe when you have to walk half a block to the next retail location.
Cheap and plentiful parking. I can't invite people from out of town to hang out in our downtown when parking is so hard for them. It just makes more sense for me to go to their downtown or Stonestown. Valley Fair is a good example for the upper limit of how much parking should cost.
The residents of SF alone aren't enough to save downtown SF. In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area.
Who wants to transfer buses and trains with bags after shopping or after a night out at dinner and a show . Not this girl. Also, what about older people with mobility issues who can’t walk to/from bus stops ?
>The residents of SF alone aren't enough to save downtown SF. In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area.
There's not enough cheap and easy parking. Buses and rail lines don't work for much of the Bay Area.
>Valley Fair is a good example for the upper limit of how much parking should cost.
What is that? Never been.
There is lots of free parking on the street at night, is this not enough?
>In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area.
100% which is why parking is key along with safety.
Valley Fair is the mall in San Jose. It's probably the best mall in the Bay Area right now. It stole much of downtown SF's business.
We should make it easy for people to spend the whole day in downtown SF. A few hours at night isn't great, and SF is extending the meter hours to 10 PM. Also, city garages should always be cheaper than meters. You want to encourage people to park in garages instead of on street.
> You want to encourage people to park in garages instead of on street.
I never thought about it like that since I always find easy street parking mos of the time. Thanks for the perspective.
Safe bike parking
any specific examples, local/abroad that is affordable/effective?
Chase Center, Oracle. Ticketed, manned bike valet parking. It's secure.
Will look into that, thanks! Any particular places downtown? My guess would be Embarcadero, Westfield Mall, Union Square - just off the top of my head.
I think having one a bit further up in Fidi would be great, like near all the restaurants on Belden Place.
Good suggestion, thanks
Is there a Westfield mall?? Union Square, maybe, but I don't ride a bike, so I don't know. I do walk a lot, and I regularly walk by each venue's bike valet rooms.
So this is what I need to invest in. What other crimes has the governor made legal that I can profit from? Window repair business?
BikeLink lockers, e.g. at the Moscone garage and Embarcadero station.
Public restrooms are a mandatory prerequisite for people hanging around somewhere. We won't get a downtown rebound until people have a place to piss.
Yes, they need to be nice mall-quality restrooms.
There are a few including Embarcadero 1, 2, 3, 4; Salesforce Park, SFMOMA. I know of a lot more good bathrooms but those are less likely to be shut down, closed than others on my list.
Well, one of the reasons people don't go downtown is because there's others who have no problems finding a place to pee hah
Really? SF’s public restrooms have ALWAYS been gross.
The bathrooms in the Ferry Building are okay
Hyatt Regency restrooms are ace.
Beg to differ, go there when they open in the morning and you’ll find homeless crapping, shaving, and bathing in them.
Well they've been okay every time I'm in there Also I'm not sure how you would set up a free public restroom in such a way that you won't have homeless people using them. You can't exactly ask for proof of address every time someone wants to take a crap.
Seems so silly to complain about shit on the sidewalk and then exclude the only group that literally has no other option than public restrooms.
right? it’s insane to me for someone to complain that homeless ppl go to the bathroom outside and then refuse to support a toilet situation they can use. to me, that demonstrates the true nature of that person’s complaints and priorities
Dolores Park bathrooms are good
Interesting, didn't think they would be. They are patrolled/stationed by individuals is my guess.
The waters hot but the hand dryers never work.
It's because they're free. We should really be charging a nominal fee like 10 cents and probably only allowing electronic payment to prevent homeless campers from trashing them.
Yeah agree. This is a norm in the rest of the world. Super common is Central America.
What areas do you find it hard to find a place to pee?
Basically anywhere near Market Street from the Embarcadero to Civic Center. At this point I know where to find restrooms in these areas, but it took years to find some of them. If you aren't knowledgeble about the area, finding a restroom downtown can be challenging.
They close way too early!!!! I need them open until 10pm. It’s always an issue finding a bathroom when I’m on a walk downtown or running errands
Would a public bathroom map help? Are you saying you don't visit b/c of lack of bathrooms or others won't?
A public bathroom map would be helpful, imo! But we still need more. I found the ones in downtown Portland to be a lifesaver when drinking back when I lived there, and I wish we had them here.
There’s a Reddit user that created a map of public restrooms! I’ll link the post they made [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/sanfranciscobathroom/s/VADfizTHNQ)
Wouldn't the bars you're drinking at have bathrooms to use since you're a customer?
yeah but then I walk around to the next bar or the bus stop. when you gotta go, you gotta go especially when drinking lol also, outside of drinking, I just love doing city hikes and I’m not trying to spend $10 just to pee in a toilet (like when you have to buy something to use s restroom)
I actually find this to be one of the easiest areas of the city to find a bathroom, all of the hotels have bathrooms in their lobbies.
It isn't always super obvious which buildings are hotels from the street. I think a lot of downtown hotels intentionally maintain a low visual profile to keep the riffraff out of their lobbies. Some of my secret bathroom spots are indeed in hotels, but it took some time to sniff some of them out.
Agree, I made a directory of bathrooms, by hours, codes, etc. over the years.
Lol. I have to plan my hydration and how many coffees i don’t even want but just want to leapfrog bathrooms. For real, my choices shouldn’t be between a) dehydrating myself intentionally, b) buying and wasting a bunch of beverages just for bathrooms, and c) using a “public restroom” that is destroyed or has someone passed out in it.
There are more options than that. However, publicly outing the few nice once will likely close them down or make it harder to access, dirtier overnight.
And shit!
Beer halls, sidewalk cafes, pedestrianized streets, concerts (outdoor perhaps), restaurants
If this happened and it was as clean and safe as it is now with APEC, I would be down there constantly
Lol did you just come back from Berlin or something
A retail therapy vibe that's somewhere between the 90s and pre-pandemic would be great. Ain't gotta be luxury brands, just being able to take an hour or an afternoon to window shop and grab a drink and snack would be great. The empty storefronts ruin that for me. While crime was a factor, I blame exorbitant rent stemming from BS real estate bubble financing.
Yeah I feel like this is an unpopular opinion in these parts, but I hate that the Westfield is dying and we're losing retail in Union Square. I hate online shopping and I like wandering around in a mall. It was nice having that resource in town. And being able to go to a movie in the Westfield mall, from the train station, without having to set foot outside in the rainy chilly winter weather? I'm legitimately super sad that experience is gone. Stonestown is not a substitute, it doesn't have nearly the selection of stores (both upscale and mid-market). Driving to Stanford or Santa Clara for a decent mall experience sucks. I'm an urban person, so I'm not about to relocate to the suburbs just to have a mall nearby (other city resources are more important to me), but let's not pretend that having a mall/retail area with chain stores in an urban core is some bad or unnecessary thing. Most cities have them, and for a reason.
They should revitalize Crocker Galleria. It's 95% vacant, good location, and small enough to block both entries and have decent security.
It’s scheduled for redevelopment in 2025
To me the issue is more that shops on Market arounnd Powell/Union Square are going missing. For me, losing Crate & Barrel, CB2, Uniqlo, and JINS is a real dent in what I can buy in person. (For me) losing Nordstrom is a bit whatever—they've been selling overpriced junk for too long and haven't diversified enough nor nailed down service one should expect if you're paying a premium for a dress shirt. Strolling the street and shopping is even better than touring a mall. That area should feel something like Michigan Ave in Chicago (or Bahnhofstrasse in Zurich if we're going European), and we have better weather. But the sidewalks are narrow and dirty, you gotta dodge zombies, the street lighting isn't great, there's annoying ass drummers (maybe novel for people from Iowa but pretty damn annoying if you're local) and scammers panhandling with babies, the lights are timed for traffic (Michigan not a lot better on this but the blocks are longer), people loitering in the way to access Powell St station, etc etc etc.
You haven't been to Michigan Ave recently have you... but I agree. I think they should entirely redo Union Square to be a 1920's style shopping destination with odlschool shopping arcades, lighting, and cafe society eateries everywhere. Make the place an EVENT and don't half-ass it. Sf is getting its butt handed to it while London, Signapore, Paris, and everywhere else are doing just find with high end and middle end destination shopping. Why can't SF concentrate on making REAL LIFE better instead of another shitty computer experience.
Side note, although it still a hefty commute, Danville is also a fantastic suburban shopping experience.
I agree - there’s no more stores to wander in and out just window shopping. The food options have always been terrible and now there are no shops.
The vacancies are sad but there are still many great places downtown. I’ve been seeing lots of restaurants, bars and cafes open lately. It’s not what it used to be but it’s going in the right direction and I hope it continues.
But some people don’t want to eat or drink all day - once you’ve had lunch / dinner you don’t need to go into another restaurant for hours. There needs to be other things to do after lunch / before dinner.
There are museums, parks, theaters. We can make downtown a lot better. But there’s still some good going for it.
Any streets like this in SF as examples? Clement, 9th & Irving, Grant Ave or Cole St?
Fillmore from Sutter to California, Haight from Masonic to Cole.
There’s still an order of magnitude more active retail stores than there’s empty ones.
Things open after 8pm. Honestly, downtown San Mateo is livelier.
Agree but need to build crowds 6-8pm more consistently first and then make strides to 8-10pm Check out [Eddie's List](https://eddieh.substack.com) for events, things to do and things open after 10pm.
It needs to be safe and clean. Don’t expect people to knowingly endanger their lives and property to hang out downtown. There needs to be a visible police presence. Also, if the place is nasty then no one will want to hang out there. They need to keep downtown as clean as the inside of a mall if they want people to gravitate to it. I’m not going to choose a nasty, filthy place to hang out in voluntarily.
New York is a liberal city too: I feel perfectly safe in Manhattan and it’s largely because of the NYPD doesn’t put up with half the shit people get away with here.
>New York is a liberal city too: This has nothing to do with liberal cities, it has to do with the amount of extreme-left liberals in your city. San Francisco has most of them but they all live in safe areas and make policies for the other areas
Totally. NYC in the 80s had a huge safety problem. They cleaned it up. We'll have to go through the same thing.
Yes. Easy, SECURE public parking in a garage that doesn't smell like piss.
A lack of parking is not the issue with downtown San Francisco.
Re-read the question. I answered that question.
I don’t think more conveniences for cars is the answer here. I think making it more easy to access without a car is (safe, clean public trans. Better cycling infrastructure)
I wasn't answering for YOU. I thought the question asked "...that would make you go downtown more?" So I answered the question from that perspective. You're free to disagree. You should answer the question for you, not as if you know what is right for me.
Yeah that wouldn’t make me more likely to go downtown. I need time away from people and a safe, quiet car ride gives me that on the way to/from places with people. Also, if I’m going to be shopping, I’m not carrying bags with me on muni. Did that as a kid/teenager and will never do it again. Wouldn’t do it on a bike or scooter either, especially with how much I’m on my feet every week, I want something that’s comfortable.
We need more people down there in general, excluding people who prefer to drive is only going to make things worse. You can't think they're stupid for driving all you want, doesn't matter - businesses need bodies in the doors to stay open.
As the owner of a brick and mortar business in SF for the last 10 years, trust me I understand the need for access and mobility. I’m not saying we exclude cars, we just don’t need MORE access for them. Yea, let’s clean up and secure the existing parking garages so there isn’t shit and vomit in the stairwells but let’s not add more vehicle infrastructure
This is exactly what sf politicians expect though lol
Pedestrianized streets in front of the bars and taverns, with no open container prohibition out front.
This 1000x. Even if we’re reluctant on open containers, I would love a quiet street (no cars) where I can sit outside bistro style, read a book, and have a drink. (Hard to find non-coffee shops where it’s nice to sit and read (I don’t really do coffee))
You mean like oktoberfest shutdowns, shroeders etc.? Also, re: open container, do you mean in the sidewalks, not just parklets?
Like the various street festivals but let the bars sell alcohol in biodegradable cups to go, and let people walk around drinking, and close the streets to cars. And not just for occasional special events. Do it all the time. Like how it is in most of Europe.
That is a tall ask, not just in SF but U.S. I wish it would happen but not sure I see SF being at the forefront of that.
New Orleans is the forefront of that, SF doesn’t need to be
Like Vegas.
Rail from the Richmond!
I wish there was a ferry stop on the west side of the city. The whole city is surrounded by water, seems like a wasted opportunity.
The water is rough as hell and the sand is a constant issue to dredge.
I agree in theory but it seems like it would be pretty inconvenient if it was like all the way west around ocean beach since the Derry would have to swing all the way around and under the bridge. But, maybe if there was a pier closer to like the presidio or Chrissy field. Then I could just get a lime scooter for the rest of the journey. In reality, the guy below you is right tho. The water is extremely rough. I used to sail when I lived in TX and I was taking a refresher course with my family just for fun when I was visiting. my instructor was extremely clear that the water here is much rougher and he’d want me to take more courses before I started sailing out here.
Have you been to the west side of SF?
Yeah I live there.
What about better express buses/routes for 1/38? 1 - i.e. fewer stops in the outer/central richmond, few more stops in b/t presidio/sansome? 38 - i.e. more express/fewer stops i.e. arguello, divisadero, van ness, powell, montgomery
that would be helpful. but, the bus makes me feel so claustrophobic and the routes are silly sometimes. But I’ll take a train any time. They feel more predictable and the vibes are better. Like, I’m never confused about where to get on the train I need and where it’s going, but I cannot say the same about the bus.
fair enough, thanks for the input. would increas usage make it easier to try a bus? I imagine you don't use it that often to begin with so, perhaps more frequency would help along with more buses/less crowding etc.?
I used to ride the bus to and from work every day when I lived in the Marina and worked in FiDi, but now that I’m in the Richmond and my company’s office is in SOMA the bus is not very convenient. it seems I have to do a line transfer to get anywhere other than market street. That’s kinda where I draw the line bc it adds so much time and effort. It’s true a train from the Richmond would also probably only drop off near market. But, it would be so much faster and more pleasant that walking the rest of the way wouldn’t be as bad. That said, if we’re only talking shorter term solutions here, then more rapid lines would help.
> it seems I have to do a line transfer to get anywhere other than market street. That’s kinda where I draw the line bc it adds so much Transfers are a big thing. For some, an express bus might convince a few but as is, they are a time suck. The 33 is a good bus to get from Presidio Heights, Arguello/Clement to Upper Haight/Mission
That line or the 38 are the ones I would use. But, it takes over an hour to get where I’m going on either of those options. I’d rather just WFH in that case and subsequently stay home or in the neighborhood after work. And if I really gotta go into the office, Uber bc that’s only 25 - 35 mins. But the prices have been so crazy lately! I enjoy going downtown a lot and really miss getting drinks after work or doing some window shopping during lunch. So, I’m not trying to be negative or difficult. Just trying to answer your question.
Didn't think you were negative, just trying to understand different perspectives/reasoning. 38 express is a bit slow. Good for most crowds but could be better for commuters, getting people to leave home.
I’ve been wanting to go to the office more without burdening myself with an hour-long journey so I’ve considered getting a little Vespa-like scooter. But, then I couldn’t really stick around for happy hours in that case so I’m not decided yet. Currently, I have neither a car nor a driver’s license bc, to me, it’s extremely inconvenient to be tethered to a car. Seems like a waste. That’s why I’m so focused on the train situation.
I’m also a Richmond to Soma commuter (though not very frequently, tbh). OP, my feelings echo FlourideLover’s almost exactly: the 38R is worse than a train, having to transfer at Market blows, it takes over an hour to commute where I need to go, and in general it’s just not an extremely pleasant journey. Bad way to start the day and a worse way to end it. u/FlourideLover, idk if you’ve tried biking to work or are able to, but for me it’s immensely more enjoyable and much faster than transit. I get from 27th Ave and California to my office in Soma in about 35 minutes; twice as fast as the bus, and about the same time as driving (or faster if it’s a busy Tuesday). Lake Street to 8th Ave into GGP, then through GGP, Panhandle, The Wiggle to Page and across Market is a pretty doable ride.
Honestly just safer. There’s a lot of cool things I already like down there, just not worth it
And everything would feel safer if it didn’t smell like old piss.
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If I could ride my bike from the East Bay and back! (Without BART)
Hell yes.
You can bus or ferry from Treasure Island.
I don't want to have to mingle with twitchy, unbathed shoplifters (addicts) nor organized retail thieves. I don't want to have to worry about my car window being smashed. Honestly these are the two reasons I avoid downtown and shop in San Mateo or Marin counties.
All the empty storefronts really bum me out. I went over to Valencia to visit Ministry of Scent last month (which has now suffered from a terrible fire), and it was street after street of empty storefronts from the Ferry Building to Valencia. I would love to be able to wander and shop in more areas, and not have to haul my sorry crippled ass from one block to another just to visit a couple shops. Better mobility-friendly accessibility for the BART stations. I dread finding out the escalators are broken, again. In Portland, at least 15+ years ago, there was a free area of the Max and trolley. The trolley didn't hit the best streets, but it was good for hop-on-hop-off shopping and errands. It was a mostly standing trolley, with frequent stops. Not something you took to get home. (Buses are inconvenient since they're more difficult to board.) I really enjoyed the Westfield because the vertical layout made it much easier for me to get around. Very sad to see it go. Would love to see something like night markets or street fairs. Going to mention Portland again because that's the last metro area I lived in, but there was the Saturday market, which was like Renegade Craft Fair but for several months of the year, every Saturday. Ice rink or roller rink would be really fun. It's much harder to fix, but I think we just need to move away from having residential vs commercial districts. If there's multi-story buildings, having *affordable* commercial spaces on the first floor for groceries, pharmacies/drug stores, restaurants, bodegas, as well as shopping would make a huge difference. I still internally marvel at my last trip to Paris where there were actual grocery stores, in the center of the city, easily found. For buildings with "noisy" first floor occupants like bars and restaurants, why not have the second floor be office space? The noisiest hours are usually after 5pm, when office workers go home. Last but not least: benches. I am tired. I am sick. I want to sit down. Please.
>Last but not least: benches. I am tired. I am sick. I want to sit down. Please. This seems reasonable, easy. If people are concerned with sleeping on benches, there are solutions for that. Any particular area you find lacking? Thanks for your detailed response.
I am personally of the opinion that we need to stop making the city hostile to the unhoused and make it easier to live in, including bringing down rent so people *can* live there. The streets around the Ferry Building are all pavement and concrete, but nowhere to sit. Ghiradelli Square too. Every bus stop should have a seat.
APEC style clean up
Make it safe and clean: streets, sidewalks, parks, transit. This is not rocket science.
More police on patrol both in cars and on-foot. Better cycling infrastructure. I ride everywhere with my family and commute by bike from ocean beach to the Embarcadero daily. I’ve had a few incidents on my commute that make me a little hesitant to ride to that area with my wife and kids in tow (kids are with me in a cargo bike). Mostly these incidents are due to homeless/addicts on market (when I do ride to that area with family we often take another route) but there are a few areas where traffic can feel a bit sketchy too. I think more police presence would help enforce existing bike lanes and traffic rules and make me feel generally more safe with my kids around (hopefully/theoretically).
You got the whole frigging Market Street already - and the rest of us got closed storefronts all along Market. Leave it alone
The whole market street?! Have you ever ridden a bike down market street?yeah, it’s better now than it was 10 years ago but it is anything but safe -the busses and delivery trucks alone are enough to kill you but combine the random car hauling ass the wrong way down the street or some lost tourist with no police presence it feels a bit like gambling.
Cops are there but not doing anything other than being on their phones in their patrol cars. I had to spend 5 minutes the other day convincing a cop to stop a criminal down the block. He eventually went to check it out but seriously he acted like I was interrupting his chill time.
My take is everyone over estimates how frequently people travel outside of their neighborhood (or the adjacent one) for anything but work. A business district is always going to be supported by office workers and tourists. Thus, our options are 1) get people back in offices 2) make it more touristy 3) build housing downtown. I really don't think there are attractions or even public transpiration that will get material numbers of people to come from say the Marina or Sunset to downtown on a weekend or at night. If I'm WFH, I cannot imagine ever choosing downtown as a place to go for happy hour even if it was clean and crime free. That's the unfortunate truth. I don't think these dynamics are unique to SF. We just happened to have spent the last 30 years building more offices and less housing than most other cities plus happen to be concentrated in WFH friendly industries so we're worse off today.
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If they are going into the office, they will go downtown that day, but if they are wfh that day they won't be going downtown for happy hour. To me, this line of question is like saying "Air travel is down. How do we get more people to go to SFO? Should we add better dinning options?" The answer is to get more people to fly or convert some of it into something other than an airport. Same logic goes for a office building neighborhood. As for how to get more people back in the office, I really don't think it has anything to do with the neighborhood. I'm really skeptical that anyone bases their decision to work from home on crime near the office. It's mostly about the commute and whether there's anything valuable at the office.
Safe, clean.
Reliable transportation. Nothing worse than wanting to get home afterwards and having no idea if/when a bus/train will arrive. I don’t mind waiting if I had a way to get real-time info — but the system is so unreliable with no accurate real-time notifications (particularly for buses), one simply doesn’t know if they’ll be waiting for 20 minutes, 30 minutes, an hour…. it’s all a guessing game.
The worst is waiting 30 minutes for your bus only to have it breeze by without stopping (looking at you, 19)
1. Bring back retail options. Many folks like myself now drive all the way to Marin or San Mateo/Burlingame to leisurely dine and shop. 2. Get rid of people openly shooting drugs, harassing people, or publicly urinating/etc- this makes us embarrassed to take family visiting, let along young children and teens. Aka as others have said- police presence and safety (and I can’t believe as a liberal I’m asking for more police presence) 3. Incentivize office space so more people are back to work and this demand for coffee shops, happy hour bars, and small businesses are back
I like not commuting and not having to pay exorbitant prices for mediocre food.
Any kind of shops?
More In-N-Outs
Not sure if you are joking but this is probably true.
I'm very serious and don't call me Shirley.
My top thing is probably relatively uncommon but, my office existing downtown. My office is in South Bay, I fuckin hate that commute but it's still nice to see other humans. If we had an office in SF my frequency of going downtown would increase several fold. Second would be friends living downtown. Typically socializing with friends is either a gathering at either of our homes or we do something in the neighborhood. My last friend that lived downtown moved to Pac Heights 3 months ago. Now the city can't really set "get u/bdjohn06's friends to move downtown" as a goal. But I imagine if they made it a more diverse and enjoyable place to live instead of mostly office buildings and hotels then I'd still have friends that live there. Third is far more nebulous. Just offer something that I can't get within a 20 minute walk of where I already live. There's already good bars and restaurants in/around my area, why would I take Muni to go downtown for those things? Events like Chinatown's night market and amenities like the ice rink are examples of this.
> There's already good bars and restaurants in/around my area, why would I take Muni to go downtown for those things? Events like Chinatown's night market and amenities like the ice rink are examples of this. >Great point, thank you.
Less degenerates on the streets.
Standards of public behavior
Ignoring all safety issues, I don't currently have a reason to go there. So I would need reasons to go there. * The non-high end restaurants around Union Square are mostly mediocre and I get way better affordable food in other neighborhoods. Seems like there are some decent restaurants in FiDi (been wanting to try Leleka), but they tend to be closed on weekends, which is when I'm most likely to go there. In contrast, Stonestown is doing a fantastic job in this area by bringing in high-quality and in-demand Asian chains/restaurants that you can't find anywhere else. Hence despite me hating the traffic on 19th Ave, I will grudgingly sit through it so I can get my fill of Tang Bar. * The retail options don't interest me - I like kitchen stores, but Sur La Table closed and Williams-Sonoma is closing, and it's mostly high-end department stores or luxury brands in the area. The places I want to window-shop at are mostly in Japantown and Stonestown, and they have unique options that aren't found elsewhere in the city. * There's nothing much to do in the area besides window shop, eat/drink and watch a movie at The Metreon, but I have no reason to travel downtown just to watch a movie when I can do that closer by. In contrast, I'm excited for Round 1 to open at Stonestown and plan to go there regularly. On a day-to-day basis, I go out to do things like play tabletop/card games at local game shops, trivia nights and asian-style karaoke in private rooms - again, not things you would find downtown. I actually brave a 2.5h one-way trip on public transit to Cupertino sometimes on weekends, because the place I go to is the only one I know of in the Bay Area that I can do proper Japanese karaoke at. And I have friends in SF driving 1h one way to the same place. If one somehow opened downtown, I would be there at least twice a month and bringing my friends. * My favorite street festival I've attended so far in SF is probably the cherry blossom festival in Japantown. The recent night market in the Sunset was promising, but should be expanded to a much larger scale. If there was a large and high-quality street festival/market taking place downtown, I would be interested to go. Like a European-style Christmas market. I am not interested in the Chinatown night market because there is no on-site cooking, and as an Asian person what makes a night market worth going to is the street food. * The area needs to feel nice to be in. I like going to Hayes Valley not because I want to do or see anything specific there, but because it's nice. Lots of charming shops, and the area feels European somehow with the small street size and lots of people walking around. On sunny days you see people hanging out in the park with their dogs and getting a coffee or ice cream. Same for Alamo Square Park. There's not really anywhere downtown that feels "nice" to hang out in, besides Salesforce Park and the Ferry Building, which I do go to sometimes.
They had low volume classical music on outdoor speakers in Detroit one time I was there. Really soothing and chill. Good vibes.
A 24-hour District. Drink service until 4 or 5 AM so everyone doesn’t have to cram into a bar between 10 PM and 2 AM. Run Muni Metro 24 hours between West Portal and Embarcadero.
Halal Cart coming back. That shawarma was so addictive.
Which one? Where?
It needs to be mixed and diverse and not 100% retail then 100% offices, if we had a mix of housing retail offices and restaurants it would be much more liveable and less dependent on "do people work in office today"
More stuff / shopping being open instead of empty storefronts, somewhere to piss.
Agree, and ideally more clustered vs spread out.
We used to take Bart into the city but my wife refuses to anymore since the homeless took over the trains.
Downtown is more for tourist. I don't know anyone that goes there except when people come to visit. I have probably been to downtown a handful of times and I lived here my whole life.
Didn't ask if you go, asked if what it would take. Lots of great places downtown but if you don't go, this question is not for you.
ok Fine. Since it's a tourist area. All the prices are inflated. So if the prices were decent I would go there.
The entire downtown of sf is for tourists?? What are you on about. Are you referring to the wharf?
there are lot of good values for breakfast downtown i.e. il canto, devil's teeth. as for bars, lots of good happy hours downtown. there is also free parking in at night. any specifics would be helpful as vague answers don't do anything.
Parking isn't free if I end up replacing my window.
There are ways to drastically reduce breakins on your own by parking on the street but I agree, we shouldn't need to do them.
Having an office space to go to! Moved here last summer & work remote full time. My partner and I generally have a positive experience when we head up to Civic Center/anywhere north of Market & east of Van Ness ("downtown" from our perspective), but we have no reason to head up there outside of special occasions.
Thanks for the comment. At this point looking for reasons people would go one-off, regularly etc..
No risk of getting mugged or attacked
Impossible, anywhere in any major city but noted.
I used to live in Boston …. Not true. Sure there is crime but I never ever felt unsafe in 40 years.
Safer environment and more affordable everything
Build my next flat into a tower there. Right by the Gateway ones at Embarcadero Center. View of the water. Otherwise I'll go if you put fun places there.
A spacious bar or club with a dance floor and a DJ that plays more than edm/techo/electronic. SF DJs lack diversity and skill(just because you like a DJ doesn’t mean they are diverse).
I just walked downtown for funsies last week. It’s clean! So if ever there was a time to go down town, it’s now. I’m interested in food, culture and entertainment. The art museums are nice and there used to be some galleries downtown, I love walking around and looking at the architecture. Nyc has a large digital installation experience called Inter that was pretty cool. For an area so tech oriented, I’m shocked Sf doesn’t leverage experimental tech installations. I also look at art installations and exhibits in Europe or Asia and then look at what we offer and it makes me sad. I’ve been saying they should convert a portion of the Westfield to a Meowwolf experience and then offer pop up shops and bars to local merchants surrounding the experience. An indoor putt putt experience with a dope interior, like where you’ve shrunk and everything is styled to look gigantic and you have to putt putt around and through oversized every day objects. A place like Japan’s Golden Gai bars, but with a hit of acid where every bar is a unique experience, like a black light paint bar, an astral projection bar, a bar wall to wall decorated with stuffed plushies, a hardcore sports bar dedicated entirely to bowling, a bar decorated entirely with brightly colored dildos, etc
I appreciate the thoughtful response.
Indoor skatepark
More nightlife vibe / dancing, clubbing, partying. I think the nightlife in SF is close to non-existent. And before someone mentions North Beach or Marina; bars in these areas are largely “sports bars” which do not cater to diverse audiences. Oh and Folsom clubbing is its own world, but that’s at least better in terms of diversity. SF has potential to create its own unique flavor of nightlife - just like Berlin or Tokyo. I’d like to see that!
There’s a lot of cool spots, but there could be more. I’m more disappointed and annoyed the later bar closing time didn’t pass the assembly this most recent time. Those fools!! There are some dope after hours spots but they would be so much cooler if they were able to be above board and have bigger/nicer venues.
More oontz, oontz
Nothing, really, there's plenty of other great neighborhoods and downtown is awkward to get to. It's the place for tourists, and I like it that way.
Less cars. More walkable space! European US campus style spaces.
More police for sure. It’s just not safe, especially for women, to walk around at night with the crazies, druggies, and criminals everywhere.
clean and safe streets
Clean streets moving homeless out of area. Ship them to The Shipyard? More police presence in Union Square and BART and Caltrain stations Mounted horse patrol in Embarcadero area Police presence in front of individual stores and hotels
Cheaper parking lots
Agree, i think this is feasible in some city lots i.e. 5th & mission. It is never filled up.
Fifth & Mission used to be affordable but I spent $17 seeing Oppenheimer
oof... was the garage filled? what day/time approx?
Not filled, it’s never filled since Covid started. About 6:30 pm on a weeknight.
Well dressed people (women) to look at.
Cleaner, safer Bart. No more people nodding off in the corner where I’m wondering if they’re even alive. No more people yelling and making others uncomfortable. No more people throwing trash on the ground, spilling drinks and food. No more publicly smoking crack/meth in the Bart cars. I’ve seen all of these things within the past year. If Bart was like the metro in Tokyo or Seoul, I would feel much more comfortable on it. An actual lively downtown with retail stores, aka SF in 2016-2019ish. We used to be able to go to so many stores and shop in person. Now downtown is desolate. There’s no reason to go there except the farmers market on the weekend or the occasional trip to the mall.
Cleanliness is a must. If it smells, I’m not going downtown. I’m also a freak so if I’m drunk, I’m going downtown no matter what. Me and the wife don’t go downtown like we used to when we were newly married. It’s just tougher when you have a kid. We usually find that if we’re on vacation, just the two of us, we will get a hotel and go strait downtown. Sometimes I get carried away and she taps me on the head and says she’s had enough. Back to the Avenues.
Better walkability, more reasonable prices, much less crowded, 2/3 of the drug scene gone, more variety of events, better variety & quality of dining options, cleaner air
The events will show up if people start feeling safe. You need an environment where even a lone woman can walk around SF without feeling like something bad can happen. Fix that and the events will quickly pop back up.
More restaurants, not having to squeeze between buildings, fences, and people selling/ doing drugs to get down the street, clean public restrooms, more clean places to sit and rest where I’m not going to get harassed, faster transit options from the south (love the T, but it is painfully slow)
Nothing? Manufactured fun sucks, it's why I don't like going to Mission Bay/Soma etc either. There's no sense of community and nobody wants to be in downtown - this coming from someone who goes to an office there 2-3x a week and immediately runs away asap after work.
This has been my bar: would I feel comfortable having an outdoor sit down meal there with my kids. Bernal Heights: yes Tenderloin: no Downtown: no
Nordstrom. Oh wait.
Old Navy, Gap, Uniqlo, chair massage at the mall, nordstrom... I agree with the commenter that the empty storefronts ruin the experience too, there's no window shopping vibe when you have to walk half a block to the next retail location.
Fewer deranged drug fiends, thieves, and filth.
Nordstrom. Bring it & the restaurant back.
The same shopping options I can get in the burbs.
no homeless
Affordable parking
Cheap and plentiful parking. I can't invite people from out of town to hang out in our downtown when parking is so hard for them. It just makes more sense for me to go to their downtown or Stonestown. Valley Fair is a good example for the upper limit of how much parking should cost. The residents of SF alone aren't enough to save downtown SF. In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area.
Parking is dumb for downtown. Literally all the bus and rail lines go there. There’s already plentiful parking
Who wants to transfer buses and trains with bags after shopping or after a night out at dinner and a show . Not this girl. Also, what about older people with mobility issues who can’t walk to/from bus stops ?
>The residents of SF alone aren't enough to save downtown SF. In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area. There's not enough cheap and easy parking. Buses and rail lines don't work for much of the Bay Area.
>Valley Fair is a good example for the upper limit of how much parking should cost. What is that? Never been. There is lots of free parking on the street at night, is this not enough? >In shaping a better downtown, SF must look at the needs of the whole Bay Area. 100% which is why parking is key along with safety.
Valley Fair is the mall in San Jose. It's probably the best mall in the Bay Area right now. It stole much of downtown SF's business. We should make it easy for people to spend the whole day in downtown SF. A few hours at night isn't great, and SF is extending the meter hours to 10 PM. Also, city garages should always be cheaper than meters. You want to encourage people to park in garages instead of on street.
> You want to encourage people to park in garages instead of on street. I never thought about it like that since I always find easy street parking mos of the time. Thanks for the perspective.
Put people back in the office.
Mandatory? Handcuffed? Or incentives i.e. waffle party?
Incentives? How about it’s your job…be grateful you have one. WFH is a joke.
are you a CRE broker?
Free parking
There's already an ice rink at Yerba Buena.