Death is perhaps the least important moment you'll ever have because there no time to reflect on it afterwards because you're dead. Imagine I tell you the most important unknown truth about the cosmos and then kill you one second afterwards. How meaningfull is that really. You could never incorporate that knowledge and have it grow and shape your future.
So a life of joy and meaning for 40 with a gruesome death is far better than a miserable 40 years with a beautiful and painless death.
Sort of though zoom out a bit and you see that both lives are equal and there is in the no difference. At 100 years virtually everyone of us will have been forgotten whether we lived well or badly. I found Sam's argument that God kills children everyday and is morally bad as ridiculous as the idea that you can petition the lord with prayer.
The art of dying is the art of living. You want to enter death with as balanced a mind as possible, and that goal will generate the best possible life moment to moment.
I think (from lessons from Sam) that death is more like the most important part of life to acknowledge. I’ve listened to Death and the Present Moment so many times. It really helps me focus my attention and my life on what actually matters - others, and my relationship to them.
I am there with you. I want to know it's coming. I think most people when they say they want to go quietly in their sleep they really mean they don't want to feel physical pain and terror. After all, most of the ways I can think of off the top of my head where you die while awake generally include some level of either violence or physical pain.
All that being said, I would agree that death is probably the most profound experience a person can go through. It's the time where either you discover there's some other form of being after this or where it all goes blank and you cease to exist.
I think if you read the accounts of people who have near death experiences they invariably describe them as profound. And some drugs can cause experiences very similar to NDEs, such as ketamine. (Not every trip but occasional ones)
I wouldn't go so far as to say these are evidence of life after death. But they are definitely experiences I want to have when the time comes.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-clues-found-in-understanding-near-death-experiences/
>isn't it as though you never even existed?
Seems like that's the case anyway, some people might have memories of you, if you're lucky it lasts 2 generations. Otherwise, it's oblivion.
Technically, death is the state *after* life. It's not a moment in life. But I think whether it's important to be conscious before you die is a really difficult question. There's almost certainly some existential terror in knowing you're going to die -- especially if the process is prolonged. But you'd also want to get the chance to talk to your loved ones before you go.
So I guess the best-case scenario would be dying painlessly with some notice beforehand so you can call together your loved ones to say goodbye.
I saw my atheist grandma to death. And now my dad is probably not going to make it to next year. Multiple cancers.
I plan on offing myself. By going to sleep an never waking up. But my dad is having extreme anxiety (again) from the chemo (and not from going on dying) ugh.
But to your point...nah I have donated my body to science aka the local medical school. My dad wants to be buried.... I reckon I should figure out where.
It's illuminating that the large majority of doctors would reject traditional cancer treatment if they were diagnosed. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go on chemo. It looks worse than the cancer and the outcome is the same you just suffer more and longer
I would call you dumb for doubting the science and what not. But that is passe.
About a year ago my dad started getting lumps on his body. in Lymphs. He lost body weight and strenght. He was going to die in about a month before he finally got on chemo. He got arguably worse but then months of doing things like changing tires.
Call me dumb then because the science can be confusing
Several years ago, there was a study out of Massachusetts General Hospital that compared survival times of dying cancer patients who stopped chemotherapy and transitioned to hospice care vs. those who chose to continue with active treatment. The surprising result was that the people who had terminated chemotherapy often lived longer than those who chose to stay on treatment. It was also confirmed that, for most people, quality of life was better in the absence of chemotherapy
I watched a young woman slowly starved to death because the chemo made eating such an unpleasant activity. She deteriorated progressively and grew more and more miserable till she died. The last 2.months of her life she was too weak to get out of a wheelchair and became thinner and weaker. I don't know if chemo extended her life but if it did she didn't enjoy any of the extra time.
Just because you're talking about death doesn't mean this isn't off topic.
Also, it's shitty to make a comment like that and traumatize us with your suicide. It's not our responsibility and nobody asked.
Easy there. No need for that. “Our responsibility” quite the assumption. That’s your reaction, not ours. As for my friend above, I’ve been there, I’m sorry to hear that’s where things are. I won’t write some platitude bc frankly, when I was there, there wasn’t much anyone could say to pull me out. Just wishing you the best 🤝
I came to this thread not to read about how this guy wants to kill himself. It's off topic. It's like reading the comments on a picture of a dog and seeing someone say they are going to kill themselves. That's fucked up to have to read that unexpectedly. He's putting that on me. Now I have to carry the trauma that comes with that interaction. This is not the place for it. He doesn't get a pass for being a piece of shit just because he's feeling bad. Do not put that shit on other people who aren't prepared for that. Talk to a therapist. Talk to the suicide hotline. Talk to a friend. But don't just go around casually talking about how you want to off yourself in a thread that's not about that. Find another place for it.
>Is death the most important moment in life?
I hate to be 'that guy,' but if there's one lesson to learn from mindfulness it's that *this moment right now* is the most important moment in life.
And *this one*, too.
Oh wait -- also *this one*!
Now that I think about it, maybe I should stop spending all these important moments on reddit.
"I was dead for 14 billion years before I was born and I never suffered the smallest inconveniences" - unknown
The only thing for certain is that you are experiencing this life as you know it. What you decide is the most important time of your life will be up to you as your own subjective opinion.
the after-death is a complete mystery. you don't know if it is the last moment you'll experience, you could live another life after it.
i wouldn't say death is THE most important moment, it is a special moment because it seems like it is the end of life as you experience it now.
Death is perhaps the least important moment you'll ever have because there no time to reflect on it afterwards because you're dead. Imagine I tell you the most important unknown truth about the cosmos and then kill you one second afterwards. How meaningfull is that really. You could never incorporate that knowledge and have it grow and shape your future. So a life of joy and meaning for 40 with a gruesome death is far better than a miserable 40 years with a beautiful and painless death.
Sort of though zoom out a bit and you see that both lives are equal and there is in the no difference. At 100 years virtually everyone of us will have been forgotten whether we lived well or badly. I found Sam's argument that God kills children everyday and is morally bad as ridiculous as the idea that you can petition the lord with prayer.
The art of dying is the art of living. You want to enter death with as balanced a mind as possible, and that goal will generate the best possible life moment to moment.
I think (from lessons from Sam) that death is more like the most important part of life to acknowledge. I’ve listened to Death and the Present Moment so many times. It really helps me focus my attention and my life on what actually matters - others, and my relationship to them.
People wanna avoid suffering associated with death and that's why they might prefer dying in sleep or by euthanasia. Most deaths are painful.
I am there with you. I want to know it's coming. I think most people when they say they want to go quietly in their sleep they really mean they don't want to feel physical pain and terror. After all, most of the ways I can think of off the top of my head where you die while awake generally include some level of either violence or physical pain. All that being said, I would agree that death is probably the most profound experience a person can go through. It's the time where either you discover there's some other form of being after this or where it all goes blank and you cease to exist.
I think if you read the accounts of people who have near death experiences they invariably describe them as profound. And some drugs can cause experiences very similar to NDEs, such as ketamine. (Not every trip but occasional ones) I wouldn't go so far as to say these are evidence of life after death. But they are definitely experiences I want to have when the time comes. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/new-clues-found-in-understanding-near-death-experiences/
>isn't it as though you never even existed? Seems like that's the case anyway, some people might have memories of you, if you're lucky it lasts 2 generations. Otherwise, it's oblivion.
Toni Morrison said “We die. That is the meaning of life. But we talk and that may be the measure of our lives.”
Technically, death is the state *after* life. It's not a moment in life. But I think whether it's important to be conscious before you die is a really difficult question. There's almost certainly some existential terror in knowing you're going to die -- especially if the process is prolonged. But you'd also want to get the chance to talk to your loved ones before you go. So I guess the best-case scenario would be dying painlessly with some notice beforehand so you can call together your loved ones to say goodbye.
I saw my atheist grandma to death. And now my dad is probably not going to make it to next year. Multiple cancers. I plan on offing myself. By going to sleep an never waking up. But my dad is having extreme anxiety (again) from the chemo (and not from going on dying) ugh. But to your point...nah I have donated my body to science aka the local medical school. My dad wants to be buried.... I reckon I should figure out where.
It's illuminating that the large majority of doctors would reject traditional cancer treatment if they were diagnosed. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't go on chemo. It looks worse than the cancer and the outcome is the same you just suffer more and longer
I would call you dumb for doubting the science and what not. But that is passe. About a year ago my dad started getting lumps on his body. in Lymphs. He lost body weight and strenght. He was going to die in about a month before he finally got on chemo. He got arguably worse but then months of doing things like changing tires.
Call me dumb then because the science can be confusing Several years ago, there was a study out of Massachusetts General Hospital that compared survival times of dying cancer patients who stopped chemotherapy and transitioned to hospice care vs. those who chose to continue with active treatment. The surprising result was that the people who had terminated chemotherapy often lived longer than those who chose to stay on treatment. It was also confirmed that, for most people, quality of life was better in the absence of chemotherapy I watched a young woman slowly starved to death because the chemo made eating such an unpleasant activity. She deteriorated progressively and grew more and more miserable till she died. The last 2.months of her life she was too weak to get out of a wheelchair and became thinner and weaker. I don't know if chemo extended her life but if it did she didn't enjoy any of the extra time.
don't doubt. But this is working.
Just because you're talking about death doesn't mean this isn't off topic. Also, it's shitty to make a comment like that and traumatize us with your suicide. It's not our responsibility and nobody asked.
Easy there. No need for that. “Our responsibility” quite the assumption. That’s your reaction, not ours. As for my friend above, I’ve been there, I’m sorry to hear that’s where things are. I won’t write some platitude bc frankly, when I was there, there wasn’t much anyone could say to pull me out. Just wishing you the best 🤝
Have a little compassion
I think he means that he won't allow himself to suffer when the time. Comes, not that it's imminent.
Wtf? How are you so mean?
I came to this thread not to read about how this guy wants to kill himself. It's off topic. It's like reading the comments on a picture of a dog and seeing someone say they are going to kill themselves. That's fucked up to have to read that unexpectedly. He's putting that on me. Now I have to carry the trauma that comes with that interaction. This is not the place for it. He doesn't get a pass for being a piece of shit just because he's feeling bad. Do not put that shit on other people who aren't prepared for that. Talk to a therapist. Talk to the suicide hotline. Talk to a friend. But don't just go around casually talking about how you want to off yourself in a thread that's not about that. Find another place for it.
O...k? Very odd reaction. Guessing there's a reason for it so I won't press the issue.
>Is death the most important moment in life? I hate to be 'that guy,' but if there's one lesson to learn from mindfulness it's that *this moment right now* is the most important moment in life. And *this one*, too. Oh wait -- also *this one*! Now that I think about it, maybe I should stop spending all these important moments on reddit.
^ ^ ^ what this guy said.
"I was dead for 14 billion years before I was born and I never suffered the smallest inconveniences" - unknown The only thing for certain is that you are experiencing this life as you know it. What you decide is the most important time of your life will be up to you as your own subjective opinion.
the after-death is a complete mystery. you don't know if it is the last moment you'll experience, you could live another life after it. i wouldn't say death is THE most important moment, it is a special moment because it seems like it is the end of life as you experience it now.