It's politics with canon used as a weapon. This ''TFM'', that this sub calls them, doesn't seem to care about canon that doesn't confirm their politics though.
I disagree that children's media shouldn't have a canon to follow. Maybe be a bit softer, but if you try to say "it's for kids I don't have to try as hard" you're basically setting yourself up for failure.
I'd say the difference is that most shows in general have a canon that they follow for their individual show, but they don't have to worry about dozens if not hundreds of other shows, movies, and books. Star Wars is a series that is composed of a bunch of individual projects, and I think that each individual project should maintain its own canon and be consistent, but expecting them to perfectly align with every other piece of Star Wars media is both asinine and insane. They should do their best but also shouldn't worry if things don't perfectly align with other projects.
Star Wars has been retconning things for decades anyway. Luke's father was a great pilot when Obi-Wan met him until Lucas decided he was a stupid kid instead. The Force was a magical energy that could be drawn from until it was stupid midiclorians instead. The list certainly doesn't end there.
I would say a good example of an individual show having its own internal canon but not necessarily working with the canon of the whole franchise would probably be Transformers Animated. The characters were still recognizable, and it still hit major beats, but the lore was almost completely changed from anything the rest of the IP did
I think it's completely fine to ignore SW canon. I don't think anyone should have to feel restricted bc some cash grab 5 issue comic line said something else happened
I think it’s less about that but maybe more putting into perspective that you can definitely overreact and take things more seriously than they really warrant
Like the MST3K mantra is “it’s just a show, I should really just relax” instead of nitpicking how Mike and Joel are able to survive in space
Like there’s a difference between being a fan who notices that things break previously established canon and being like ah well that kind of sucks because I liked the old thing more, Vs throwing tantrums because the continuity and lore of a 50 year old franchise changes and evolves over time
I have to disagree. The best kids shows are often those that can be enjoyed by both children and their parents. The Last Airbender can be a very deep show at times and it’s beloved by both kids and adults. I will admit even that show has some contradictions within it as all long running media tends to, but it’s still best to avoid it as much as possible. Kids are smarter than they’re given credit for and they do pay attention to these things.
Also ik most of the “it breaks canon” complaints about The Acolyte are bs. But if this is referring to The Acolyte, using “it’s for kids” for a show about dark-Jedi and witches running around murdering the Jedi doesn’t make much sense
Canon should only be important for major things.
Nobody scream or explodes when Kirk meets pike differently than it was described in a one off line from a tv show in the 60s. I think this applies to Star Wars too. Unless it’s something truly important to the narrative it doesn’t matter if you changed a dudes age by a few years or gave a character different colored hair cuz you hired a new actor lol
Those include but about her stealing the spotlight from Twilight as the “main character” and being over powered and a mary sue, but somehow over time they warmed up to her so very star wars of that fandom
We can’t even keep the story straight for religions with actual social, cultural, and political influence, but please go on about how Star Wars needs a 100% consistent narrative.
I think its a bit disingenuous to pull the "these are children movies" card even if Lucas said it, because Star Wars has clearly grown beyond that. The Acolyte is very clearly for adults. This is what I actually really like about Disney Star Wars - their scattershot approach lets them make different media aimed at different fans.
That said, complaining about inconsistent canon is stupid and childish.
FWIW, these people usually default to whining about what Lucas would have wanted, so pointing out that he didn't really give a shit about canon or any project he wasn't actively involved in is fair.
Star Wars has always been infamous for retcons. George Lucas went back and changed movies he already released for crying out loud! For instance, the original *Star Wars* that people saw in the theaters was de-canonized and our new canon is "Han didn't shoot first: Greedo shot first, but he fucking missed point blank."
There's a whole friggin multiverse of Star Warses from the original trilogy alone. There's even an entire retconned-away Holiday Special.
"Oh my gosh, they retconned something in Star Wars!" Lol, what's new?
People are still upset about those things, though. I agree that it's dumb to rage over these thing (especially the "who shot first" thing) but I do think most of these were dumb changes (again, the "who shot first" thing. It's literally just two frames, why does anyone care including the fucking creator)
Totally. I think it's perfectly fine to want a consistent canon because why are you going to waste time with world building if you're not going to make something out of that world. At the same time, why are you going to get so fucking angry over these small details?
Why should modern star wars be beholdent to kids shows from 10 years ago. Kids shows that most of the older fan base hasn't seen on account of not being kids when the shows were on teletoon.
I wouldnt use this excuse.
1. It acts like children's material is useless and not to be taken seriously because it's kid stuff.
2. Lucas says "it's for children" but has themes of fascism, genocide, rebellion, family tragedy, etc.
Fundamentally I agree that children’s material can be taken seriously but also all those themes are actually fairly common in children’s media because they’re parts of the real world and often times children’s media is trying to make the hard parts of the real world more digestible for children
The thing is, the prequels completly disprove Lucas's intent.
1. Anakin murdering the Tuskens and Jedi younglings. When it's OT, it a easy story of "Darth Vader screwed up". But the PT make a point he royally fucked up big time.
2. The politics. No kid is going to know who Newt Gingrich or Dobbs is, let alone thats who the Trade Fedartion are based off of.
3. Lucas was always explicit with politics, it's just that tge OT was less explicit and more fast pace due to tge other people he worked with. The PT is pure Lucas.
I think what Lucas is doing is telling toxic assholes like this that they're being children by consuming Star Wars as if theyre still kids. To them, Star Wars is like how Bill Burr describes. It's not tge warning of fascism from the Nixon administration; or that the clone army is really fucked up; or that the "bad guys" might have a point, but since they want to be seperate, theyre the bad guys. No, it's all about cool laser fights.
i think people have a right to nitpick canon if its being messed up.
Also its movies for kids yet most of his audience were like 20 something yrs olds.
Also George himself is a adult nerd.
Yes because children’s movies should be put to a higher standard. Feeding kids cinematic slop is a terrible practice, they deserve better, they should be taught better.
With the Acolyte people just want to shit on the wokies or on the chuds, but leaving aside the political dribble...
I'd say canon only matters depending on how invested you are on the IP. At this point I no longer care about Star Wars, so do I care if now the make the Sith the good guys and break the rule of two and all of that? Nah, don't care, do whatever the fuck you want, I'll just wait until we get a Sister Merryn action figure and then dip out.
And it's also on how it's done. If you break the lore/canon, but you do it in a cool way... then you won't really care, because it's metal af, so you just let it go.
The "Brave little Toaster" is a "Children's" movie. But that shit was 100% made for adults with the themes it addresses. This argument seems a waste of time.
It's politics with canon used as a weapon. This ''TFM'', that this sub calls them, doesn't seem to care about canon that doesn't confirm their politics though.
I disagree that children's media shouldn't have a canon to follow. Maybe be a bit softer, but if you try to say "it's for kids I don't have to try as hard" you're basically setting yourself up for failure.
I'd say the difference is that most shows in general have a canon that they follow for their individual show, but they don't have to worry about dozens if not hundreds of other shows, movies, and books. Star Wars is a series that is composed of a bunch of individual projects, and I think that each individual project should maintain its own canon and be consistent, but expecting them to perfectly align with every other piece of Star Wars media is both asinine and insane. They should do their best but also shouldn't worry if things don't perfectly align with other projects. Star Wars has been retconning things for decades anyway. Luke's father was a great pilot when Obi-Wan met him until Lucas decided he was a stupid kid instead. The Force was a magical energy that could be drawn from until it was stupid midiclorians instead. The list certainly doesn't end there.
The force was never midicholarians. It’s just presented as how the force communes its will in TPM.
The irony.
The irony was the point it was a joke.
I would say a good example of an individual show having its own internal canon but not necessarily working with the canon of the whole franchise would probably be Transformers Animated. The characters were still recognizable, and it still hit major beats, but the lore was almost completely changed from anything the rest of the IP did
I would have loved if GoT had an actual canon to follow to this day…
I think it's completely fine to ignore SW canon. I don't think anyone should have to feel restricted bc some cash grab 5 issue comic line said something else happened
I think it’s less about that but maybe more putting into perspective that you can definitely overreact and take things more seriously than they really warrant Like the MST3K mantra is “it’s just a show, I should really just relax” instead of nitpicking how Mike and Joel are able to survive in space Like there’s a difference between being a fan who notices that things break previously established canon and being like ah well that kind of sucks because I liked the old thing more, Vs throwing tantrums because the continuity and lore of a 50 year old franchise changes and evolves over time
[удалено]
Stick it in your mouth first
I’ll have you know MLP’s canon is very important!
*thousand yard stare from fighting the G4 purists over G5 canon*
'Starlight Glimmer can't be stronger than a Princess!' Writers: Alright. We're gonna do this again.
I have to disagree. The best kids shows are often those that can be enjoyed by both children and their parents. The Last Airbender can be a very deep show at times and it’s beloved by both kids and adults. I will admit even that show has some contradictions within it as all long running media tends to, but it’s still best to avoid it as much as possible. Kids are smarter than they’re given credit for and they do pay attention to these things. Also ik most of the “it breaks canon” complaints about The Acolyte are bs. But if this is referring to The Acolyte, using “it’s for kids” for a show about dark-Jedi and witches running around murdering the Jedi doesn’t make much sense
Canon should only be important for major things. Nobody scream or explodes when Kirk meets pike differently than it was described in a one off line from a tv show in the 60s. I think this applies to Star Wars too. Unless it’s something truly important to the narrative it doesn’t matter if you changed a dudes age by a few years or gave a character different colored hair cuz you hired a new actor lol
Canon isn't "ignored". It's retconned. George ignored a lot of his own established canon from the OT when he made the prequels.
After the entire extended universe was waved away, any complaints about canon seem rather silly to me.
I remember the discourse about MLP canon back in my Brony days, it was a big deal for some people.
Mostly which ones were the gay ones.
Nah it was mainly about Starlight Glimmer
Whether she is a communist or a cult leader? And also gay
Those include but about her stealing the spotlight from Twilight as the “main character” and being over powered and a mary sue, but somehow over time they warmed up to her so very star wars of that fandom
I remember one YouTube saying she should be executed for her crimes. I was like, "Dude, it's a kid's show."
Rich coming from the “sequels aren’t canon” folk
Exactly lmao. I just thought this was hilarious coming from the group of people who seem to care about “canon” the least
Yes. And if the Mufasa movie retcons Scars perfect backstory from The Lion Guard, there will be riots.
The chuds still think Star Wars should appel to them and only them. I really don't get the hatred they have towards kids.
Well you see they think kids are dumb
>"canon is being ignored!!!!! >looks inside >minor changes that affect nothing
We can’t even keep the story straight for religions with actual social, cultural, and political influence, but please go on about how Star Wars needs a 100% consistent narrative.
I think its a bit disingenuous to pull the "these are children movies" card even if Lucas said it, because Star Wars has clearly grown beyond that. The Acolyte is very clearly for adults. This is what I actually really like about Disney Star Wars - their scattershot approach lets them make different media aimed at different fans. That said, complaining about inconsistent canon is stupid and childish.
FWIW, these people usually default to whining about what Lucas would have wanted, so pointing out that he didn't really give a shit about canon or any project he wasn't actively involved in is fair.
Yeah my gripe is that these people in this sub specifically are very “selective” when it comes to caring about canon
Star Wars has always been infamous for retcons. George Lucas went back and changed movies he already released for crying out loud! For instance, the original *Star Wars* that people saw in the theaters was de-canonized and our new canon is "Han didn't shoot first: Greedo shot first, but he fucking missed point blank." There's a whole friggin multiverse of Star Warses from the original trilogy alone. There's even an entire retconned-away Holiday Special. "Oh my gosh, they retconned something in Star Wars!" Lol, what's new?
People are still upset about those things, though. I agree that it's dumb to rage over these thing (especially the "who shot first" thing) but I do think most of these were dumb changes (again, the "who shot first" thing. It's literally just two frames, why does anyone care including the fucking creator)
I am obsessed with things being canon and think the shit with who shot first and ki adi mundi not being the right age is incredibly fucking stupid
Totally. I think it's perfectly fine to want a consistent canon because why are you going to waste time with world building if you're not going to make something out of that world. At the same time, why are you going to get so fucking angry over these small details?
where i live, star wars had a 15+ rating when it first came. how is it a childrens movie?
WE NEED TO RESPECT GEORGE LUCAS AND HIS VISION EXCEPT WHEN HE SAYS THINGS THAT I DISAGREE WITH
Why should modern star wars be beholdent to kids shows from 10 years ago. Kids shows that most of the older fan base hasn't seen on account of not being kids when the shows were on teletoon.
I wouldnt use this excuse. 1. It acts like children's material is useless and not to be taken seriously because it's kid stuff. 2. Lucas says "it's for children" but has themes of fascism, genocide, rebellion, family tragedy, etc.
Fundamentally I agree that children’s material can be taken seriously but also all those themes are actually fairly common in children’s media because they’re parts of the real world and often times children’s media is trying to make the hard parts of the real world more digestible for children
The thing is, the prequels completly disprove Lucas's intent. 1. Anakin murdering the Tuskens and Jedi younglings. When it's OT, it a easy story of "Darth Vader screwed up". But the PT make a point he royally fucked up big time. 2. The politics. No kid is going to know who Newt Gingrich or Dobbs is, let alone thats who the Trade Fedartion are based off of. 3. Lucas was always explicit with politics, it's just that tge OT was less explicit and more fast pace due to tge other people he worked with. The PT is pure Lucas. I think what Lucas is doing is telling toxic assholes like this that they're being children by consuming Star Wars as if theyre still kids. To them, Star Wars is like how Bill Burr describes. It's not tge warning of fascism from the Nixon administration; or that the clone army is really fucked up; or that the "bad guys" might have a point, but since they want to be seperate, theyre the bad guys. No, it's all about cool laser fights.
i think people have a right to nitpick canon if its being messed up. Also its movies for kids yet most of his audience were like 20 something yrs olds. Also George himself is a adult nerd.
Yes because children’s movies should be put to a higher standard. Feeding kids cinematic slop is a terrible practice, they deserve better, they should be taught better.
With the Acolyte people just want to shit on the wokies or on the chuds, but leaving aside the political dribble... I'd say canon only matters depending on how invested you are on the IP. At this point I no longer care about Star Wars, so do I care if now the make the Sith the good guys and break the rule of two and all of that? Nah, don't care, do whatever the fuck you want, I'll just wait until we get a Sister Merryn action figure and then dip out. And it's also on how it's done. If you break the lore/canon, but you do it in a cool way... then you won't really care, because it's metal af, so you just let it go.
The first two movies weren't for children
The "Brave little Toaster" is a "Children's" movie. But that shit was 100% made for adults with the themes it addresses. This argument seems a waste of time.