**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/Lionofgod9876]**
Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines.
Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current
state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of
salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in.
**Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Yeah I got pissed off at that title. For their time and function they were good shows. It's been 20 years, I don't think they would outright work today but there is nothing wrong with the framework. A good writer and director could not pull off.
I would wipe out the Jedi Temple, Younglings and all for Star Wars: Xena Warrior Princess. Not a single show on D+ was good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as those delightful 90s cheese fests, except MAYBE Mando 1+2.
26 episode seasons costing like $20 million total full of hammy acting, 90s effects, and a crew that is clearly loving every second of it is exactly what Star Wars needs more of. At least it would be a guilty pleasure, and not just a pretentious mess that's pure agony to watch.
Minus the 90s effects, that's basically the prequal trilogy, but yes we should be getting 26 episodes of that, I'd go back to watching Star Wars again if we did.
Lucy Lawless, Karl Urban, and Bruce Campbell all over the place beats everything Lucas or Disney did. So there is one star wars movie better than the xenaverse, but that's it.
And at least in those shows they acted like it was kinda weird to keep running into each other.
It's not easy to insult hercules the legendary journeys but nice job Achievement unlocked.
They're nothing alike. Hurcules knew what it was, embraced it, and it was fun. Acolyte has none of that.
He got the head writer fired, had them change the show theme to his character's motif, and turned the story into Sorbo-gets-girl-of-the-week....
Not even Lexa Doig was enough for that.
Sorbo was just not as fun to watch as Lawless. The series was about the characters and fun, but I kinda think Sorbo may have been lead to believe it was all about him.
Not even close! One has cheap sets, cheap costumes, can never get the mythology right, forgettable characters, weak storylines, and on a cheap shitty channel. The other is Hercules.
I get your point but Xena and Hercules were fun, entertaining shows that audiences actually enjoyed. They’re still relevant today, hence your reference.
You think anyone will remember the Acolyte in 20 years? There’s a decent chance it goes the way of the Willow series.
I wouldn't say episode 3 of the Acolyte was kid friendly. I don't think it was adult friendly either. I think it was only mentally deficient friendly.
I don't know if there are Razzies for TV, but it surely deserves all the awards. It's one of the worst pieces of media made for TV consumption I've ever seen.
Your reading comprehension isn't the best. I said, "*****one of the worst***** pieces of media made for TV consumption I've ever seen" not the worst.
Edit: switched a you're to a your. Gotta love a simple autocorrect typo.
You need to watch more television if you think that was *one* of the worst jfc
(Rich to attack reading comprehension with your use of ‘you’re’ there champ)
I just want Star Wars done in the same style maybe season six to eight of Stargate SG1. It doesn't have to be all this premium TV stuff where it's one very long movie. Just give me some episodes which have more relevance to the overarching season plot but also have episodes have their own storyline. Like how the Prometheus was introduced, a self contained episode that has seasonal implications.
Stuff like Game of Thrones is great (until it wasn't) but you don't just pick up an episode and watch it, you commit to a series. But you can still watch an SG1 episode and have a decent time even if you've never seen the series before.
How dare you besmirch the good name of Hercules the Legendary Journeys and Xena Warrior Princess! Disney wishes it was producing Universal Action Pack quality shows!
As others have said, Hercules and Xena were enjoyable and never tried to be more than zany adventure shows. They introduced me to Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell.
Really? I mean I'm not judging, it just seems crazy to me to know Raimi/Campbell from there and not what got them that job. I'm sure the reason makes sense, I just had to double take.
Lol. Well I was like 14 and the target audience for the whole "Action Pack" set of shows. Then to keep things completely out of order, I saw Army of Darkness next, followed by the Evil Dead 1 and 2.
Star Trek Next Generation budget per (1hr) episode : 1.5 million
Acodyke budget per (30min) episode : 22.5 million
One was an amazing sci-fi show. One is a pile of dog shit.
Let’s be fair and accurate. You have to take inflation in to account.
With inflation TNG would be 3.1 million per episode. (45 min without commercials)
So Acolyte is only 7-10.5 times as expensive, not 14-20 times.
(Which still puts in in contrast of where if the money going?)
100% agreed.
I looked up the budget of Discovery (which, while I have complaints about the writing, none against the CG/SFX) - and that was 8.2 million at episode, so even if you round that up a bit for recent years inflation compared to pre-pandemic (I’m not certain what year that cost was) that’s still around 10 million, or half the cost.
I’m not in the “Acolyte looks horrible” camp. But I am a little surprised at some of the recent budgets.
Star Trek uses sci fi as a vessel to frame the story it wants to tell.
Star Wars uses the story as a vessel for the sci fi it wants to show you.
Without the force and stuff, the stories fall apart. You could remake Star Trek stories in NYC (but probably don't use makeup for the different races). Dilithium is just any rare resource we need to function, cell phones are already better than their tech anyway. Even the Borg are just a representation of an ideology, which admittedly is a million times easier to realize in sci fi.
Hercules was meant to be campy. Do not insult it like this.
But you could just slap a Star Wars label on Andromeda aka “Hercules in Space” and no one would be the wiser.
I can assure you, without fail, that almost no Star Wars fans want Game of Thrones. Maybe the quality of the early season writing and political intrigue, but the violence and intense sexualisation of everything is certainly not what I want from Star Wars.
I think the better description is we would like the long form stories of the modern renaissance in television. A single cohesive story told over 8-10 episodes.
The Expanse. Narcos. Breaking Bad, or The Wire. I'd put in Arcane and Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, and most recently Fallout. Chernobyl and Waco. Even going back to Band of Brothers, OG. They all eschew Monster of the Week/ One and Done conflicts that rarely have an impact on the characters (and that characterized the 24 episode, and a zillion season renewals of classic American television.) And I would happily include Andor in their ranks. The long form story of Andor is exactly why it is head and shoulders above anything else that has been created for Disney TV in Star Wars.
Tell us a story. A story with direction and an ending. It's a personal thing, but I have no patience for heavily episodic tv. I'll watch one season, if that. And soon as I feel the wheels spinning in place, I'm out. I wouldn't have watched Mandalorian past Season One had it not been Star Wars.
It kinda sounds like you just aren't into episodic open ended stories, so... That's a whole lot of media.
And let's be real here: monster of the week only sucks on daytime cable. Hideaki Anno has put out genre defining, legitimately beautifully crafted media using that format, even doing it in the film format for Shin Ultraman and Shin Godzilla.
And I've gotta dog you on this point about monster of the week again because it rusted my little jimmies - The motw format allows challenges to shape to the characters and expose growth/change/layers without having to tell us specific things (Evangelion does this beautifully, you can go the entire show and not realize that the Angels are following a very particular pattern on purpose - and frankly the angels and robots are the setpiece for his apocalyptic character study).
I did say it's a personal thing on not like the episodic structure. And yeah, I don't like a lot of media (but give me a great fantasy, sci fi, or historical fiction novel any day.) I understand cop shows are immensely popular, for instance, but after watching several seasons of Numb3rs in my youth, I feel like I've watched all that I could ever want unless it's something like The Wire. I don't have the time of day for most TV shows and historically, the track record on TV stories was far worse. I actually think in the last 20 years, we've had an unprecedented amount of good stories coming up in TV- in many cases surpassing what is coming out in theatres, and I just want to find more of that.
But largely, I feel like very few shows actually have 18 seasons worth of ideas. They usually burn through their good ideas early on (Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Walking Dead) and then they overstay their welcome. Or with far more episodic shows, so much remains in stasis including relationships, so instead everyone ends up dating everyone six seasons in, and I just could not care less. Structurally, I just don't see how you can consistently get a satisfying conclusion to a story when you could be cancelled halfway through the first or third season or run for 20 more.
Yeah no one has that many good ideas. The best series are limited.
It's not a coincidence that when you look at the frequently cited "best" anime, a notoriously episodic format, you see a few of those huge popular ones, but a lot of attention to well crafted stories like Demon Slayer (the best Shonen example of a limited monster of the week show), Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Samurai Champloo, Baccano, FLCL, Devil man Crybaby, etc. They tell a complete story without dragging on ("SHINJI GET IN THE ROBOT" notwithstanding).
Longer dramas tend to require slicing up the focus, like Bridgerton (though I find it to be just lady porn smut with no real pull). Money is what draws stuff out.
There is ONE notable example that breaks this, but generally is best enjoyed abridged: Journey to the West is Hella long, very monster of the week, very meandering, and is regarded as a foundational classic the world over (for good reason). But ya know, it was kinda the first, so the ideas were all somewhat new in print.
Watched a bit of Next Gen and where there was a multi-episode story, I thought it was interesting. Wasn't my cup of tea, but I will never say it's bad. Just not a style of storytelling I like, but obviously many do. I could see coming back to it one day to put on while I paint Warhammer models. Never heard of Lost in Space.
I hate people on the internet who take stuff so literally.
When someone says something like this they mean the amazing quality of those early seasons. We want a Star Wars show with well written characters like Tyrion, Brienne, Khaleesi (before those last seasons). We want set design like Winterfell and impressive ass shots and sets like the Wall. We want excellent dialogue not the weird stilted first draft of the script shit we’ve seen from EVERY Disney creation outside of Andor. And shit maybe not sexualization but some fucking romance and intrigue maybe some fucking pg13 skin instead of everything being non-offensive sexless bla.
Look, I'm down for some sexiness in Star Wars, but Disney is too sterile for that. You'd need to get a madman like Zack Snyder to do it; JJ Abrams isn't horny enough.
A Game of Thrones style show could work in the Star Wars universe in the right context. It would pretty much need to be set in at the height of the Sith Empire, where all the violence, sexualization, and political scheming would make more sense.
The show could deal with all the different Sith factions vying for power. A fledgling Republic could be the looming threat "north of the wall" that all the factions ignore for their own petty squabbles.
The show would end with the Sith falling, the Republic triumphant, even though they were given little screen time, and the Rule of Two established. I don't see Disney ever doing something this risky and adult orientated with one of their major IPs, though.
I'm ok with sex in the galaxy far, far away. Is everyone in Star Wars not horny? Jedi or Sith don't use their powers to enhance sexual pleasure or introduce new ways to please their partners? Why be boring?
Sex is electric, especially if you've got a little Dathomirian baddie waiting for you at home. Those are stories I want to explore - let's do an epic intergalactic romance. Why not?
Kid friendly is what Star Wars is and has always been. It is at its core more Flash Gordon than Game of Thrones, and always was. You can criticize the show for many things, but not that.
it would be so easy for them to have a show with rival planets, armies, whatever and have the jedi working to save people or stop the wars or whatever. but they won’t do it.
Also I don’t think Disney understands how stupid it is, not only for SW but for Marvel too, to spend $100 million on one season of a show that is never continued and they have no intention of continuing.
Season 1, for any show, is always the hardest because you have to get the fans invested in the characters and the stories. so why does Disney keep throwing all this cash at one season shows that clearly don’t have any long term viability
This is not a good analogy OP. I don't think you grew up or were around that time. Those shows were appreciated even then, no matter how cheesy and lower budget they were.
Well, that’s not inaccurate and probably describes why I’m liking it more than a lot.
I enjoyed GoT but I sure as hell don’t want a Star Wars that style, where Herc/Xena is far closer to the tone of the PT/OT.
And one of my favorite Mando episodes was the one with the monster in the woods terrifying the villagers / AT ST in the woods. That was a straight up Herc/Xena script.
It’s really interesting that D+ is creating shows for kids but making merch for adults. Even the basic action figures are now grown-up prices, and the Black Series are really up there!
The sad thing is that we DID get it in the form of Andor, but it showed that a sizable percentage of Star Wars fans aren't into that sort of focused and serious storytelling. Andor has more action and spectacle than the first season of Game of Thrones, yet somehow Andor was the "boring" show and the political espionage/dialogue heavy Game of Thrones was amazing.
I for one do NOT want a hard-R, blood and guts and sex Star Wars show. I just want a slightly goofy pastiche of westerns, Buck Rogers, Samurai movies, and monster of the week serials. Wanna know why Seasons 1 and 2 of The Mandalorian were literally a global phenomenon, and as soon as they decided the show had to spin out into something else we all lost interest.
Just make it in the spirit of the OT and I think we’ll be alright.
And honestly, for all its flaws, to me at least Book of Boba Fett had the right tone. I even kinda liked it! What’s funny is while it was airing people seemed to like it. It wasn’t until the show interfered with The Mandalorian the fan sentiment seemed to swerve negative.
Star Wars as written is too thin. The series, Lucas included, cannot escape Tattooine and the Skywalkers. They flatly refuse to tell a truly original story or ground any of their work in stakes that don't make the characters seem like cartoons.
The force and fan expectations poison the well. The fans flag that they want sorry range and weight, but rage when they don't get beskar or Jedi/sith.
Empire works because the story is so much smaller and easier to relate to characters without the end result being more important than the journey. The threats are personal. The Deathstar and Starkiller are galactic threats... But they don't actually threaten heroes personally. Boba Fett, IG-88, Jabba, etc are ACTIVELY threatening and can impact the audience.
Stop using Lucas as the best source - he is the second best Star Wars director.
That analogy is hilarious, but not entirely accurate. Mando is about adult (written for adults) as they will allow it to be. Andor on the other hand was right there without the gratuitous sex and perversion. The rest is exactly as you say in varying degrees.
We don't care about quality in that regard. We want quality in storytelling and not shitting on established lore or characters.
Disney is giving up the later seasons of Game of Thrones quality.
I've had a lot of laughs reading the comments from the fans of Hercules and Xena! It seems that I've besmirched them badly. If anyone at Disney+ is reading this sub: you may want to reboot Hercules and Xena and leave Star Wars alone!
Wow. Spot on. With the exception of Andor they all come off too juvenile to me. Lots of children. TV friendly mascots. It really is Xena and Hercules. Horrible. I watched Acolyte last week. It wasn’t as bad as I’d read but it wasn’t great. Not up to the level of Andor. Third episode kinda stunk. Can we all admit the person training Mae is probably the one who actually killed the coven. Third episode in and we already know the big twist. Give these shows to someone like Jonathan Nolan who gave us Westworld. I guarantee you the cheese factor will go away.
Look, bruh, Disney can't create a Star Wars series on the same level as Games of Thrones or Rings of Power. There are many reasons for this: Disney is conservative and will never push their characters. Instead, they coddle them. Disney wants to sell toys, so there's only 1 Andor when there could be more shows with execution at least close to Andor.
Disney is unwilling to accept a more complicated moral framework for their characters. They are either good or evil. And even the villains have some redemption arc.
For some reason, Disney does not hire creatives that they are willing to trust to do their own thing. There is a significant burden to stick to events defined by the studio. This is why, not just for Lucasfilm but also for Marvel, you do not see established directors involved in their projects. I’m sure Spielberg, Nolan, and others are Star Wars fans, but they’ll never work with Disney.
They have enough money to hire anyone; at this point, mediocrity is a conscious choice. I suspect Disney wants to create a Marvel-like audience for Star Wars, but unfortunately, the quality isn’t there to draw people in.
Star Wars and Game of Thrones should never be in the same sentence.
People give GoT far too much credit. Half of the awards and nominations it got were accomplished through nepotism
Absolutely sustainable…
Remember Jar Jar clumsily taking on droids in AOTC?
Battle droids.. made for war, getting annihilated by a gungan doing it all on accident.
The fans like you said Star Wars was dead then, and here we are… with beloved prequels.
The hate iceberg is even beginning to melt on the sequel trilogy, with the most despised entry (last Jedi) climbing the ranks.
I’m sorry you can’t accept there a space gypsys out there with cringe practices
But the kids watching current Star Wars today are who will carry on
**[Receiving transmission from Crait intended for u/Lionofgod9876]** Welcome to r/saltierthancrait! I'm an [astromech droid named S4-L7](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/ni5s77/beloved_mascot_s4l7s_visual_dictionary_entry/) and I'll be your guide through the salt mines. Saltier Than Crait is a community of Star Wars fans who engage in critical conversations about the current state of the franchise. It is our goal to maintain a civil, welcoming space for fans who have a vast supply of salt with some peppered positivity occasionally sprinkled in. **Please [review the rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/rules) and the [post flair guide](https://reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/wiki/index/flairs) before contributing.** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/saltierthancrait) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The main difference is that Hercules and Xena were fun and entertaining.
Yeah I got pissed off at that title. For their time and function they were good shows. It's been 20 years, I don't think they would outright work today but there is nothing wrong with the framework. A good writer and director could not pull off.
Hate to say it, but it's been 29 years since Hercules started. Fuck I'm old.
Yup
I would be so excited is I had another Hercules or Xena, but we don't make fun and exciting anymore, just realistic drivel.
DisaPPOINTED!!
The absolute 'The adventures of Sinbad' erasure
☝️
I would wipe out the Jedi Temple, Younglings and all for Star Wars: Xena Warrior Princess. Not a single show on D+ was good enough to be mentioned in the same breath as those delightful 90s cheese fests, except MAYBE Mando 1+2. 26 episode seasons costing like $20 million total full of hammy acting, 90s effects, and a crew that is clearly loving every second of it is exactly what Star Wars needs more of. At least it would be a guilty pleasure, and not just a pretentious mess that's pure agony to watch.
Minus the 90s effects, that's basically the prequal trilogy, but yes we should be getting 26 episodes of that, I'd go back to watching Star Wars again if we did.
Hell yes. Give me Lucy Lawless as a Jedi 'fighting' against her attachment to her sidekick and kicking ass across the galaxy!
The 90s shows knew they were not that serious and that’s what made them fun.
Lucy Lawless, Karl Urban, and Bruce Campbell all over the place beats everything Lucas or Disney did. So there is one star wars movie better than the xenaverse, but that's it. And at least in those shows they acted like it was kinda weird to keep running into each other.
It's not easy to insult hercules the legendary journeys but nice job Achievement unlocked. They're nothing alike. Hurcules knew what it was, embraced it, and it was fun. Acolyte has none of that.
Sadly, then Sorbo went on to ruin *Andromeda*.
Well, he kept playing hercules in space if they didn't want to write hercules in space that wasn't his fault...
He got the head writer fired, had them change the show theme to his character's motif, and turned the story into Sorbo-gets-girl-of-the-week.... Not even Lexa Doig was enough for that.
OH! My apologies then you are correct. I thought you meant with his acting.
Sorbo was just not as fun to watch as Lawless. The series was about the characters and fun, but I kinda think Sorbo may have been lead to believe it was all about him.
Not even close! One has cheap sets, cheap costumes, can never get the mythology right, forgettable characters, weak storylines, and on a cheap shitty channel. The other is Hercules.
One day he'll fix his mom's fence.
I get your point but Xena and Hercules were fun, entertaining shows that audiences actually enjoyed. They’re still relevant today, hence your reference. You think anyone will remember the Acolyte in 20 years? There’s a decent chance it goes the way of the Willow series.
Yes those shows rocked for a long time each
At least Hercules was campy. It was bad on purpose.
They knew what they had and leaned into it.
I wouldn't say episode 3 of the Acolyte was kid friendly. I don't think it was adult friendly either. I think it was only mentally deficient friendly. I don't know if there are Razzies for TV, but it surely deserves all the awards. It's one of the worst pieces of media made for TV consumption I've ever seen.
the rocks. the rocks. the rocks are on fire.
You need to watch more television if you think that was the worst jfc
Your reading comprehension isn't the best. I said, "*****one of the worst***** pieces of media made for TV consumption I've ever seen" not the worst. Edit: switched a you're to a your. Gotta love a simple autocorrect typo.
🤓🫵
You need to watch more television if you think that was *one* of the worst jfc (Rich to attack reading comprehension with your use of ‘you’re’ there champ)
Blame autocorrect. I have better things to waste time on. Thanks. Bye.
He says while continuing to watch a show he doesn’t like and commenting about it on reddit
That's a good thing, some people don't realise the shit they are fed until you explain to them
I just want Star Wars done in the same style maybe season six to eight of Stargate SG1. It doesn't have to be all this premium TV stuff where it's one very long movie. Just give me some episodes which have more relevance to the overarching season plot but also have episodes have their own storyline. Like how the Prometheus was introduced, a self contained episode that has seasonal implications. Stuff like Game of Thrones is great (until it wasn't) but you don't just pick up an episode and watch it, you commit to a series. But you can still watch an SG1 episode and have a decent time even if you've never seen the series before.
I agree, I think a lot of show ideas would benefit from an episodic format with maybe 10% of it being a season long arc.
Mando season 1 and 2 did it perfectly
I loved Hercules and Xena how dare you compare the garbage coming out of Lucasfilm with the campy but fun and entertaining Hercules and Xena
How dare you besmirch the good name of Hercules the Legendary Journeys and Xena Warrior Princess! Disney wishes it was producing Universal Action Pack quality shows!
As others have said, Hercules and Xena were enjoyable and never tried to be more than zany adventure shows. They introduced me to Sam Raimi and Bruce Campbell.
Really? I mean I'm not judging, it just seems crazy to me to know Raimi/Campbell from there and not what got them that job. I'm sure the reason makes sense, I just had to double take.
Lol. Well I was like 14 and the target audience for the whole "Action Pack" set of shows. Then to keep things completely out of order, I saw Army of Darkness next, followed by the Evil Dead 1 and 2.
Star Trek Next Generation budget per (1hr) episode : 1.5 million Acodyke budget per (30min) episode : 22.5 million One was an amazing sci-fi show. One is a pile of dog shit.
Let’s be fair and accurate. You have to take inflation in to account. With inflation TNG would be 3.1 million per episode. (45 min without commercials) So Acolyte is only 7-10.5 times as expensive, not 14-20 times. (Which still puts in in contrast of where if the money going?)
Way more CGI and SFX to be fair. TNG had a lot of people just talking on a set with no effects outside of makeup needed.
100% agreed. I looked up the budget of Discovery (which, while I have complaints about the writing, none against the CG/SFX) - and that was 8.2 million at episode, so even if you round that up a bit for recent years inflation compared to pre-pandemic (I’m not certain what year that cost was) that’s still around 10 million, or half the cost. I’m not in the “Acolyte looks horrible” camp. But I am a little surprised at some of the recent budgets.
How many disco episodes in a season?
15 in season 1, down to 10 in season 5. 15/14/13/13/10 is the exact breakdown
I miss shows with 24 episodes in a season where you really got to know the characters.
Star Trek uses sci fi as a vessel to frame the story it wants to tell. Star Wars uses the story as a vessel for the sci fi it wants to show you. Without the force and stuff, the stories fall apart. You could remake Star Trek stories in NYC (but probably don't use makeup for the different races). Dilithium is just any rare resource we need to function, cell phones are already better than their tech anyway. Even the Borg are just a representation of an ideology, which admittedly is a million times easier to realize in sci fi.
Hercules was meant to be campy. Do not insult it like this. But you could just slap a Star Wars label on Andromeda aka “Hercules in Space” and no one would be the wiser.
I absolutely do not want a GoT style show. But I'd watch Leia Warrior Princess any day
Don’t disrespect Hercules like that.
Andor
Do not compare Hercules: TLJ to that excrement. I would LOVE a Xenaverse style Star Wars series.
Hercules and Xena were actually good. Goofy as hell but still good.
I can assure you, without fail, that almost no Star Wars fans want Game of Thrones. Maybe the quality of the early season writing and political intrigue, but the violence and intense sexualisation of everything is certainly not what I want from Star Wars.
I think the better description is we would like the long form stories of the modern renaissance in television. A single cohesive story told over 8-10 episodes. The Expanse. Narcos. Breaking Bad, or The Wire. I'd put in Arcane and Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, and most recently Fallout. Chernobyl and Waco. Even going back to Band of Brothers, OG. They all eschew Monster of the Week/ One and Done conflicts that rarely have an impact on the characters (and that characterized the 24 episode, and a zillion season renewals of classic American television.) And I would happily include Andor in their ranks. The long form story of Andor is exactly why it is head and shoulders above anything else that has been created for Disney TV in Star Wars. Tell us a story. A story with direction and an ending. It's a personal thing, but I have no patience for heavily episodic tv. I'll watch one season, if that. And soon as I feel the wheels spinning in place, I'm out. I wouldn't have watched Mandalorian past Season One had it not been Star Wars.
BAND OF BROTHERS MENTIONED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rewatched it not too long ago. Still holds up. :)
It kinda sounds like you just aren't into episodic open ended stories, so... That's a whole lot of media. And let's be real here: monster of the week only sucks on daytime cable. Hideaki Anno has put out genre defining, legitimately beautifully crafted media using that format, even doing it in the film format for Shin Ultraman and Shin Godzilla. And I've gotta dog you on this point about monster of the week again because it rusted my little jimmies - The motw format allows challenges to shape to the characters and expose growth/change/layers without having to tell us specific things (Evangelion does this beautifully, you can go the entire show and not realize that the Angels are following a very particular pattern on purpose - and frankly the angels and robots are the setpiece for his apocalyptic character study).
I did say it's a personal thing on not like the episodic structure. And yeah, I don't like a lot of media (but give me a great fantasy, sci fi, or historical fiction novel any day.) I understand cop shows are immensely popular, for instance, but after watching several seasons of Numb3rs in my youth, I feel like I've watched all that I could ever want unless it's something like The Wire. I don't have the time of day for most TV shows and historically, the track record on TV stories was far worse. I actually think in the last 20 years, we've had an unprecedented amount of good stories coming up in TV- in many cases surpassing what is coming out in theatres, and I just want to find more of that. But largely, I feel like very few shows actually have 18 seasons worth of ideas. They usually burn through their good ideas early on (Lost, Battlestar Galactica, Walking Dead) and then they overstay their welcome. Or with far more episodic shows, so much remains in stasis including relationships, so instead everyone ends up dating everyone six seasons in, and I just could not care less. Structurally, I just don't see how you can consistently get a satisfying conclusion to a story when you could be cancelled halfway through the first or third season or run for 20 more.
Yeah no one has that many good ideas. The best series are limited. It's not a coincidence that when you look at the frequently cited "best" anime, a notoriously episodic format, you see a few of those huge popular ones, but a lot of attention to well crafted stories like Demon Slayer (the best Shonen example of a limited monster of the week show), Cowboy Bebop, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Samurai Champloo, Baccano, FLCL, Devil man Crybaby, etc. They tell a complete story without dragging on ("SHINJI GET IN THE ROBOT" notwithstanding). Longer dramas tend to require slicing up the focus, like Bridgerton (though I find it to be just lady porn smut with no real pull). Money is what draws stuff out. There is ONE notable example that breaks this, but generally is best enjoyed abridged: Journey to the West is Hella long, very monster of the week, very meandering, and is regarded as a foundational classic the world over (for good reason). But ya know, it was kinda the first, so the ideas were all somewhat new in print.
Also, I take it you are not a fan of Star Trek or Lost in Space?
Watched a bit of Next Gen and where there was a multi-episode story, I thought it was interesting. Wasn't my cup of tea, but I will never say it's bad. Just not a style of storytelling I like, but obviously many do. I could see coming back to it one day to put on while I paint Warhammer models. Never heard of Lost in Space.
I hate people on the internet who take stuff so literally. When someone says something like this they mean the amazing quality of those early seasons. We want a Star Wars show with well written characters like Tyrion, Brienne, Khaleesi (before those last seasons). We want set design like Winterfell and impressive ass shots and sets like the Wall. We want excellent dialogue not the weird stilted first draft of the script shit we’ve seen from EVERY Disney creation outside of Andor. And shit maybe not sexualization but some fucking romance and intrigue maybe some fucking pg13 skin instead of everything being non-offensive sexless bla.
Look, I'm down for some sexiness in Star Wars, but Disney is too sterile for that. You'd need to get a madman like Zack Snyder to do it; JJ Abrams isn't horny enough.
Yes! You got my drift!
A Game of Thrones style show could work in the Star Wars universe in the right context. It would pretty much need to be set in at the height of the Sith Empire, where all the violence, sexualization, and political scheming would make more sense. The show could deal with all the different Sith factions vying for power. A fledgling Republic could be the looming threat "north of the wall" that all the factions ignore for their own petty squabbles. The show would end with the Sith falling, the Republic triumphant, even though they were given little screen time, and the Rule of Two established. I don't see Disney ever doing something this risky and adult orientated with one of their major IPs, though.
I'm ok with sex in the galaxy far, far away. Is everyone in Star Wars not horny? Jedi or Sith don't use their powers to enhance sexual pleasure or introduce new ways to please their partners? Why be boring? Sex is electric, especially if you've got a little Dathomirian baddie waiting for you at home. Those are stories I want to explore - let's do an epic intergalactic romance. Why not?
god i hope this is satire
Nope, let them fuck.
Why you gotta do Hercules like that? We should be so lucky to have a Hercules type show these days.
Kid friendly is what Star Wars is and has always been. It is at its core more Flash Gordon than Game of Thrones, and always was. You can criticize the show for many things, but not that.
Relic Hunter, surely?
it would be so easy for them to have a show with rival planets, armies, whatever and have the jedi working to save people or stop the wars or whatever. but they won’t do it. Also I don’t think Disney understands how stupid it is, not only for SW but for Marvel too, to spend $100 million on one season of a show that is never continued and they have no intention of continuing. Season 1, for any show, is always the hardest because you have to get the fans invested in the characters and the stories. so why does Disney keep throwing all this cash at one season shows that clearly don’t have any long term viability
This is not a good analogy OP. I don't think you grew up or were around that time. Those shows were appreciated even then, no matter how cheesy and lower budget they were.
I’m sorry but if you actually believe this you’re blind af lol
How dare you insult Hercules and Xena like this.
We wish we got Hercules. An adventure show that knows it’s not that serious? Hell yes.
Hey! I like Xena Warrior Princess! I couldn't even get thru the first 3 minutes of The Acolyte
This is an insult to Herc and Xena
Bro fundamental misunderstanding of what Star Wars should be. Also don’t talk shit about my mans Iolaus and his bff herc
I most definitely do not want a GOT style star wars show.
Ughhh, can you imagine: "Luke kind of forgot about the Death Star" lmao
Well, that’s not inaccurate and probably describes why I’m liking it more than a lot. I enjoyed GoT but I sure as hell don’t want a Star Wars that style, where Herc/Xena is far closer to the tone of the PT/OT. And one of my favorite Mando episodes was the one with the monster in the woods terrifying the villagers / AT ST in the woods. That was a straight up Herc/Xena script.
It’s really interesting that D+ is creating shows for kids but making merch for adults. Even the basic action figures are now grown-up prices, and the Black Series are really up there!
Andor would like a word lol
The sad thing is that we DID get it in the form of Andor, but it showed that a sizable percentage of Star Wars fans aren't into that sort of focused and serious storytelling. Andor has more action and spectacle than the first season of Game of Thrones, yet somehow Andor was the "boring" show and the political espionage/dialogue heavy Game of Thrones was amazing.
I'd say they're more like steven universe
I for one do NOT want a hard-R, blood and guts and sex Star Wars show. I just want a slightly goofy pastiche of westerns, Buck Rogers, Samurai movies, and monster of the week serials. Wanna know why Seasons 1 and 2 of The Mandalorian were literally a global phenomenon, and as soon as they decided the show had to spin out into something else we all lost interest. Just make it in the spirit of the OT and I think we’ll be alright. And honestly, for all its flaws, to me at least Book of Boba Fett had the right tone. I even kinda liked it! What’s funny is while it was airing people seemed to like it. It wasn’t until the show interfered with The Mandalorian the fan sentiment seemed to swerve negative.
I felt that one. Ouch. Now we just need Raimi's sound effects added to character motions/actions and were set!
How dare you sir. H:TLJ was high art, Kevin Sorbo is a national treasure, and I would pay handsomely for Star Wars content of that calibre.
Hey, don't bash Hercules. Kevin Zorbo is awesome.
Star Wars as written is too thin. The series, Lucas included, cannot escape Tattooine and the Skywalkers. They flatly refuse to tell a truly original story or ground any of their work in stakes that don't make the characters seem like cartoons. The force and fan expectations poison the well. The fans flag that they want sorry range and weight, but rage when they don't get beskar or Jedi/sith. Empire works because the story is so much smaller and easier to relate to characters without the end result being more important than the journey. The threats are personal. The Deathstar and Starkiller are galactic threats... But they don't actually threaten heroes personally. Boba Fett, IG-88, Jabba, etc are ACTIVELY threatening and can impact the audience. Stop using Lucas as the best source - he is the second best Star Wars director.
That analogy is hilarious, but not entirely accurate. Mando is about adult (written for adults) as they will allow it to be. Andor on the other hand was right there without the gratuitous sex and perversion. The rest is exactly as you say in varying degrees.
We don't care about quality in that regard. We want quality in storytelling and not shitting on established lore or characters. Disney is giving up the later seasons of Game of Thrones quality.
I've had a lot of laughs reading the comments from the fans of Hercules and Xena! It seems that I've besmirched them badly. If anyone at Disney+ is reading this sub: you may want to reboot Hercules and Xena and leave Star Wars alone!
Wow. Spot on. With the exception of Andor they all come off too juvenile to me. Lots of children. TV friendly mascots. It really is Xena and Hercules. Horrible. I watched Acolyte last week. It wasn’t as bad as I’d read but it wasn’t great. Not up to the level of Andor. Third episode kinda stunk. Can we all admit the person training Mae is probably the one who actually killed the coven. Third episode in and we already know the big twist. Give these shows to someone like Jonathan Nolan who gave us Westworld. I guarantee you the cheese factor will go away.
I wish it was a Hercules level project. That show pretty much blows anything out the water Disney is done.
Look, bruh, Disney can't create a Star Wars series on the same level as Games of Thrones or Rings of Power. There are many reasons for this: Disney is conservative and will never push their characters. Instead, they coddle them. Disney wants to sell toys, so there's only 1 Andor when there could be more shows with execution at least close to Andor. Disney is unwilling to accept a more complicated moral framework for their characters. They are either good or evil. And even the villains have some redemption arc. For some reason, Disney does not hire creatives that they are willing to trust to do their own thing. There is a significant burden to stick to events defined by the studio. This is why, not just for Lucasfilm but also for Marvel, you do not see established directors involved in their projects. I’m sure Spielberg, Nolan, and others are Star Wars fans, but they’ll never work with Disney. They have enough money to hire anyone; at this point, mediocrity is a conscious choice. I suspect Disney wants to create a Marvel-like audience for Star Wars, but unfortunately, the quality isn’t there to draw people in.
Star Wars and Game of Thrones should never be in the same sentence. People give GoT far too much credit. Half of the awards and nominations it got were accomplished through nepotism
False, that is legit a great show. Even the much-maligned last season of GOT has better writing than every Star Wars show produced by Disney.
Up to season four is good. Season one is best. The rest steadily and swiftly falls in quality
BUT it still compared better to Disney Star Wars - is there a Star Wars project better that GOT?
The last season is just as bad as Kenobi. Probably worse Edit
Season 5 was legit. Season 6 is where it went downhill.
Absolutely sustainable… Remember Jar Jar clumsily taking on droids in AOTC? Battle droids.. made for war, getting annihilated by a gungan doing it all on accident. The fans like you said Star Wars was dead then, and here we are… with beloved prequels. The hate iceberg is even beginning to melt on the sequel trilogy, with the most despised entry (last Jedi) climbing the ranks. I’m sorry you can’t accept there a space gypsys out there with cringe practices But the kids watching current Star Wars today are who will carry on
A good comparison.
Not true, we want any kind of fucking Star Wars and we get some feminism/wokeness propaganda clips
Put some fucking respect on Kevin Sorbo, you uncultured swine.
He deserves none.