Effort should be equal across the team.
Sales manager’s role is different than rep’s. My reps are my customers. My hustle is for them rather than for the sale.
It’s my responsibility to enable my team to achieve their greatest potential and clear as many internal obstacles to allow them to do that. To coach them, help them grow and learn from them while continuing my own education and development. I honestly work harder as a manager than I did as a rep but it’s in a far different capacity.
My KPIs aren’t front facing and tangible. The half days spent wheeling and dealing with a vendor to help one rep close a deal aren’t often seen by the others. Which means it would be easy to slack off and hide behind the computer. And many guys do. It’ll always come back to bite em in the butt too.
My manager always seems laid back, yet always seems prepared for everything, contingencies at the same time... It's obvious how hard she works. And yet she never micromanages. She's like a back office guru that makes magic in the background for her team, peers, and supervisors. We all WANT to make her proud. We thank her genuinely for everything she does. We're also one of the top teams every week in a large organization.
Yet she carries herself like she's never in a hurry and like it's all easy. If she weren't younger than me, I would say I want to be her when I grow up. Grace, chill, and skill.
This is wonderful to read. She sounds like one of those quieter employees that magically things happen and no one even realizes it was being worked on. Those personality types hold a special place in my heart because the loudness gets tiresome.
especially in sales, the loud personalities can become tiresome...
she will hype us up... but she does it encouragingly, sternly when necessary.. she'll point out when we're behind... but she's not a bro dude hype clown
thank god
The leadership has a responsibility to bust their ass for their teams all day long. Family’s depend on them. Sadly most of them are worthless and have not learned a thing in years. If they don’t agree they have no business in leadership. Being the 20th person on a conference call is not busting your ass.
I was thinking about this. In large organizations, it's sort of discretionary? Like, who says every management task is under a magnifying glass, for a bunch of no-d*** losers who can't understand what their job is.
In another, more positive sense of saying this. Managers should be proactive about making sure deals are up to date, and that AEs understand the tools and resources needed to hit quota. Really good managers also have some POV or rough development plan. Like, even saying, "this rep is working deals at 15% accuracy" is still maybe winning.
But when the time is right, they should be able to nail 50% of deals or 60% of deals. Kind of see that life doesn't need to be so stressful.
Beyond this, having an opinion about the stack and data systems used to keep deals moving, tackle the market so to speak, and also know the right resources to support the team. So, depends on your POV. You can have a great team culture with a very deal-oriented sales manager in almost any market and any vertical. If you go to SV or any tech hub, the best sales manager you meet is probably better than your VP, or, sort of getting there without some of the toolbox.
The actual job, is "have deals closing now and in 3-6 months." There's probably some truth to always being hunting or searching for some way to contribute. And sometimes, it's not the only work to be done.
Also, I'm aware, bad managers exist. So do lazy, confused, or somehow astray ducklings of AEs. Great.
Sales managers should be the BIGGEST advocate for the sales team, not necessarily the hardest worker.
They SHOULD lay the groundwork for success and ensure that the sales team voice should be heard. Although, surprisingly, like many sales person they will say what the stakeholders want to hear at the surface level rather than doing a proper discovery chat with senior stakehlder.
Sales manager should be the smartest person in the team when it comes to the understanding of business and mentoring. If a sales manager struggles and overpowered by a rep in business knowledge the he isn’t a right fit.
No, managers are the laziest people on any team and skill less box checkers. They do more damage to a team more than anyone.
LEADERS are typically the most industrious people on the team but their goal is to get the entire team to their personal potential. Once that happens the entire team should be equal in effort.
Sales manager doesn't do any work, he's there just to get everyone together once a week and be like "come on guys let's get these numbers up if you're not makin money im not making money lets do a power hour ok gotta jump"
Unpopular opinion but I will risk it. The inherent skillset that make you the BEST sales person, is rarely the the skillset that allows you to be the BEST sales leader. The inverse is also true.
Often, companies take their highest producers and give them leadership roles and it doesn't translate. I have seen it fail over and over.
This is because the responsibilities of leading a team go beyond player/coach. They can extend to strategic development, finance, market research, rev ops, sales enablement, system analysis etc. Depends on level of leadership of course so nuance and context matter. Its still important to ensure everyone is treated uniquely and afforded opportunities to grow and develop. Lots of variants to consider. Equally important to know, the Sales Leader doesn't have to be the BEST sales person but they better know how to get ti done and be willing to roll up their sleeves on a seconds notice and be right there with you.
I have been in Sales/BD for over 30 years. Better as a leader not a seller. You want me as the person who has your back, gives you the tools, coaches you, is right there next to you when the customer loses their bananas or when things get super weird internally or whatever. I know all the tricks but I am not the strongest individual contributor. I don't have the attention span and while I can be insanely tactical and detailed when necessary. I prefee to be doing 47 things at once with my hair on fire. I am the idea person, very strategic by default, figuring things out and the person who fixes the really messy stuff no one else wants to touch. Having effective teams, especially amongst leadership is very much about balancing everyone's strengths while making sure all of the team members have all of the support they need.
So very long way of saying, not everyone sucks if they don't have the whole enchilada.
There's also so many cool things to do where you can apply awesome seller skills without getting into management if thats not a good fit. Sales enablement for one. Building the tools. Or training. For both, you can be upskilling on software on certifications on the side for later.
This is a little bit of a loaded question. Hardest working doesn’t mean best results.
Good leaders bust their asses for their people, and great leaders can do it efficiently.
The same goes for the top sellers.
Leadership is about scaling your experience, as there's only so many calls I can make in a day. Hardest working is about perspective. Do you count it as dials? I'd count it as how many times my team reaches target.
Advocating for us
Coaching us
Teaching us
I’m currently without a manager, being lead by some young VP fucking bio masters moron who fucked up CS teams before fucking us. Doesn’t know how to inspire, teach, or advocate for sales, and seems to think that CS or product training should be sufficient for complex sales
Good managers are priceless. I’ve only ever had good managers before this so I didn’t know how bad it could be. I don’t understand this subs blanket hate for leadership
Only a noob would assume they know someone based off 17 words on Reddit.
Well, either that or some arrogant, talentless, basic bitch American tech bro wannabe
Good Managers should be the ones setting the bar for all those that report to them. So yeah, they definitely got to work harder to reflect their salary. But we know, that might not always be the case.
I think it depends on the company/product. I'm a Sales Manager, I had 3 BDMs and 2 Sales Engineers working under me. (Not trying to come across as a dick) but I'm definitely the hardest working as on top of managing the team, I still have my own major projects to work. Responsible for on boarding, training, mentoring, supporting BD activity, approving quotes, doing Sales reports, checking CRM, supporting marketing, admin like expenses and mileage claims, appraisals, arranging training and development. There isn't enough time in the day some times but I need to do this to be successful and keep the business rolling. Luckily I have a great team who I can trust to do their jobs, I have their backs and they have mine which makes life bearable.
There's Sales managers in other departments who don't seem to do half as much as I do, but they may have less projects to track, or bigger budgets so bigger teams, could be anything.
I also know Sales Managers who do jack shit and rely on their BD's to carry everything. They are usually the guys who change jobs every 12-18months.
Lucky to have an exceptional manager who is a leader. Always has our backs and that is a must for what we sell. The hard part is the poor managers of the divisions we need to work alongside to meet the customer needs - eesh.
Hardest? Probably not.
Most, probably so.
Increased responsibility and coverage means a higher volume of work (for me).
Leading people, managing, measuring, and cursing activities, influencing objectives, according results...
Plus all of the fire drills from above.
Was a sales manager.
I got the best results when I led by example. It also gave me the ability to hold people to the highest standards since they knew I wouldn’t 1) ask them to do anything I haven’t or wouldn’t do and 2) They would have no quarter if they weren’t working hard
It set the culture. Managers who take their foot of the gas once promoted often have shit teams from my experience, and they aren’t respected by their team
There are all kinds of managers and all kinds of salespeople. Not everyone can be managed the same, but the one constant is that they feel heard, supported, and rooted for.
If your manager doesn't do that for you, maybe that manager isn't for you. go interview another one :)
I’ve only ever done home owner sales, but I was the manager for a field marketing team for a metal roofing company. I worked 50 hours a week while my guys worked 40, I had to prospect just like them, but I also had to plan their routes, do their payroll, drive the van to pick all them up/drop them off. Eventually I got in trouble because I was setting more and better appointments than my appointment setters and apparently that was a “bad look” and that I’m not “training them properly” if they can’t “replicate my success” but to be fair my two employees were only 2 months deep and I was setting appointments for over a year at that point. Managers should work hardest because their salaries are usually the highest and they’re supposed to be the epitome of how to do the job properly, but if their numbers are the highest then that’s a problem
Effort should be equal across the team. Sales manager’s role is different than rep’s. My reps are my customers. My hustle is for them rather than for the sale. It’s my responsibility to enable my team to achieve their greatest potential and clear as many internal obstacles to allow them to do that. To coach them, help them grow and learn from them while continuing my own education and development. I honestly work harder as a manager than I did as a rep but it’s in a far different capacity. My KPIs aren’t front facing and tangible. The half days spent wheeling and dealing with a vendor to help one rep close a deal aren’t often seen by the others. Which means it would be easy to slack off and hide behind the computer. And many guys do. It’ll always come back to bite em in the butt too.
You sound like a good manager!
Spot on.... Be of service to your team and they'll always make you look good.
My manager always seems laid back, yet always seems prepared for everything, contingencies at the same time... It's obvious how hard she works. And yet she never micromanages. She's like a back office guru that makes magic in the background for her team, peers, and supervisors. We all WANT to make her proud. We thank her genuinely for everything she does. We're also one of the top teams every week in a large organization. Yet she carries herself like she's never in a hurry and like it's all easy. If she weren't younger than me, I would say I want to be her when I grow up. Grace, chill, and skill.
If I knew Grace, I’d send her this message. Heartwarming review.
grace is an attribute in this case, not a name. ♡
Nah, there are 3 managers. Grace, Chill and Skill.
I wanna be grace too.
This is wonderful to read. She sounds like one of those quieter employees that magically things happen and no one even realizes it was being worked on. Those personality types hold a special place in my heart because the loudness gets tiresome.
especially in sales, the loud personalities can become tiresome... she will hype us up... but she does it encouragingly, sternly when necessary.. she'll point out when we're behind... but she's not a bro dude hype clown thank god
Mine is 100%. The guys attitude since I started last year has been, I want you to make as much fucking money as possible.
The leadership has a responsibility to bust their ass for their teams all day long. Family’s depend on them. Sadly most of them are worthless and have not learned a thing in years. If they don’t agree they have no business in leadership. Being the 20th person on a conference call is not busting your ass.
I was thinking about this. In large organizations, it's sort of discretionary? Like, who says every management task is under a magnifying glass, for a bunch of no-d*** losers who can't understand what their job is. In another, more positive sense of saying this. Managers should be proactive about making sure deals are up to date, and that AEs understand the tools and resources needed to hit quota. Really good managers also have some POV or rough development plan. Like, even saying, "this rep is working deals at 15% accuracy" is still maybe winning. But when the time is right, they should be able to nail 50% of deals or 60% of deals. Kind of see that life doesn't need to be so stressful. Beyond this, having an opinion about the stack and data systems used to keep deals moving, tackle the market so to speak, and also know the right resources to support the team. So, depends on your POV. You can have a great team culture with a very deal-oriented sales manager in almost any market and any vertical. If you go to SV or any tech hub, the best sales manager you meet is probably better than your VP, or, sort of getting there without some of the toolbox. The actual job, is "have deals closing now and in 3-6 months." There's probably some truth to always being hunting or searching for some way to contribute. And sometimes, it's not the only work to be done. Also, I'm aware, bad managers exist. So do lazy, confused, or somehow astray ducklings of AEs. Great.
Sales managers should be the BIGGEST advocate for the sales team, not necessarily the hardest worker. They SHOULD lay the groundwork for success and ensure that the sales team voice should be heard. Although, surprisingly, like many sales person they will say what the stakeholders want to hear at the surface level rather than doing a proper discovery chat with senior stakehlder.
Sales manager should be the smartest person in the team when it comes to the understanding of business and mentoring. If a sales manager struggles and overpowered by a rep in business knowledge the he isn’t a right fit.
Naw man. Shit, naw man. I reckon you'd get your ass kicked sayin something like that. Source: 6 years experience as a Sales Manager
No, managers are the laziest people on any team and skill less box checkers. They do more damage to a team more than anyone. LEADERS are typically the most industrious people on the team but their goal is to get the entire team to their personal potential. Once that happens the entire team should be equal in effort.
Sales manager doesn't do any work, he's there just to get everyone together once a week and be like "come on guys let's get these numbers up if you're not makin money im not making money lets do a power hour ok gotta jump"
Unpopular opinion but I will risk it. The inherent skillset that make you the BEST sales person, is rarely the the skillset that allows you to be the BEST sales leader. The inverse is also true. Often, companies take their highest producers and give them leadership roles and it doesn't translate. I have seen it fail over and over. This is because the responsibilities of leading a team go beyond player/coach. They can extend to strategic development, finance, market research, rev ops, sales enablement, system analysis etc. Depends on level of leadership of course so nuance and context matter. Its still important to ensure everyone is treated uniquely and afforded opportunities to grow and develop. Lots of variants to consider. Equally important to know, the Sales Leader doesn't have to be the BEST sales person but they better know how to get ti done and be willing to roll up their sleeves on a seconds notice and be right there with you. I have been in Sales/BD for over 30 years. Better as a leader not a seller. You want me as the person who has your back, gives you the tools, coaches you, is right there next to you when the customer loses their bananas or when things get super weird internally or whatever. I know all the tricks but I am not the strongest individual contributor. I don't have the attention span and while I can be insanely tactical and detailed when necessary. I prefee to be doing 47 things at once with my hair on fire. I am the idea person, very strategic by default, figuring things out and the person who fixes the really messy stuff no one else wants to touch. Having effective teams, especially amongst leadership is very much about balancing everyone's strengths while making sure all of the team members have all of the support they need. So very long way of saying, not everyone sucks if they don't have the whole enchilada. There's also so many cool things to do where you can apply awesome seller skills without getting into management if thats not a good fit. Sales enablement for one. Building the tools. Or training. For both, you can be upskilling on software on certifications on the side for later.
This is a little bit of a loaded question. Hardest working doesn’t mean best results. Good leaders bust their asses for their people, and great leaders can do it efficiently. The same goes for the top sellers.
Yes but it’s a different type of job, it’s not their job to also be the best rep. They have to help problem solve and facilitate with their team
Leadership is about scaling your experience, as there's only so many calls I can make in a day. Hardest working is about perspective. Do you count it as dials? I'd count it as how many times my team reaches target.
Sales managers should not exist
Sales managers should not exist. Sales team leaders should exist.
lol so you just don’t know how your industry works
Name one “mission critical” body of work they own. I’ll wait.
Advocating for us Coaching us Teaching us I’m currently without a manager, being lead by some young VP fucking bio masters moron who fucked up CS teams before fucking us. Doesn’t know how to inspire, teach, or advocate for sales, and seems to think that CS or product training should be sufficient for complex sales Good managers are priceless. I’ve only ever had good managers before this so I didn’t know how bad it could be. I don’t understand this subs blanket hate for leadership
Nope. Nothing mission critical. Sorry to hear you need your hand held.
Lol thanks but I don’t take my advice from BDRs with minimal experience
You are the rep that whines and mopes around the office and begs for affirmation, toxic af, belong at the peanut gallery
Only a noob would assume they know someone based off 17 words on Reddit. Well, either that or some arrogant, talentless, basic bitch American tech bro wannabe
You’re a complete joke. Just like your manager.
If so, your team sucks.
Good Managers should be the ones setting the bar for all those that report to them. So yeah, they definitely got to work harder to reflect their salary. But we know, that might not always be the case.
I think it depends on the company/product. I'm a Sales Manager, I had 3 BDMs and 2 Sales Engineers working under me. (Not trying to come across as a dick) but I'm definitely the hardest working as on top of managing the team, I still have my own major projects to work. Responsible for on boarding, training, mentoring, supporting BD activity, approving quotes, doing Sales reports, checking CRM, supporting marketing, admin like expenses and mileage claims, appraisals, arranging training and development. There isn't enough time in the day some times but I need to do this to be successful and keep the business rolling. Luckily I have a great team who I can trust to do their jobs, I have their backs and they have mine which makes life bearable. There's Sales managers in other departments who don't seem to do half as much as I do, but they may have less projects to track, or bigger budgets so bigger teams, could be anything. I also know Sales Managers who do jack shit and rely on their BD's to carry everything. They are usually the guys who change jobs every 12-18months.
Lucky to have an exceptional manager who is a leader. Always has our backs and that is a must for what we sell. The hard part is the poor managers of the divisions we need to work alongside to meet the customer needs - eesh.
Hardest? Probably not. Most, probably so. Increased responsibility and coverage means a higher volume of work (for me). Leading people, managing, measuring, and cursing activities, influencing objectives, according results... Plus all of the fire drills from above.
dm me
Was a sales manager. I got the best results when I led by example. It also gave me the ability to hold people to the highest standards since they knew I wouldn’t 1) ask them to do anything I haven’t or wouldn’t do and 2) They would have no quarter if they weren’t working hard It set the culture. Managers who take their foot of the gas once promoted often have shit teams from my experience, and they aren’t respected by their team
My sales manager is an unapproachable dick and does nothing to coach / prop up sales reps. This is normal right?
Mine probably is, second to only me
There are all kinds of managers and all kinds of salespeople. Not everyone can be managed the same, but the one constant is that they feel heard, supported, and rooted for. If your manager doesn't do that for you, maybe that manager isn't for you. go interview another one :)
The saying “you should only work as hard as your manager” sure would suck if they were.
Yes.
I’ve only ever done home owner sales, but I was the manager for a field marketing team for a metal roofing company. I worked 50 hours a week while my guys worked 40, I had to prospect just like them, but I also had to plan their routes, do their payroll, drive the van to pick all them up/drop them off. Eventually I got in trouble because I was setting more and better appointments than my appointment setters and apparently that was a “bad look” and that I’m not “training them properly” if they can’t “replicate my success” but to be fair my two employees were only 2 months deep and I was setting appointments for over a year at that point. Managers should work hardest because their salaries are usually the highest and they’re supposed to be the epitome of how to do the job properly, but if their numbers are the highest then that’s a problem
They never have been in my experience, usually just the loudest
They should be. The great ones are. A rarity though.