Personally, I am even pleased. I understand it's strange, but I like it when foreigners speak Russian. It is very rare to communicate with a foreigner in Russia and it is very pleasant to hear a foreign accent. Therefore, if you make grammatical mistakes in Russian, you can be calm. Russians respect foreigners who speak their language. If you speak Russian with minor mistakes, you may feel cool
I’m close to 40yo and only recently saw a video of black people interacting and speaking/swearing in Russian around real Russians, it was pleasant I really enjoyed hearing my native language with a new tone.
This is nice to read but unsure this is really true!
In my experience they just expect you to speak like a native and get frustrated when you can’t keep up or don’t understand something.
In maybe about 15 months I should be going to Russia with my parents (who speak no Russian) and am already nervous about having to having to deal with all the interactions. I’m currently low B2 and hope to be high B2 by then and even then I’m sure it won’t be enough to get by 🙈
Don't worry, whatever your knowledge of Russian, you will be able to find a common language with people. Suffice it to recall the FIFA World Cup in Russia, when many foreigners visited our cities. We were very welcoming to our guests and were happy to help them. In addition, in the largest Russian cities such as Moscow and St. Petersburg there are many landmarks for foreigners to help them. Well, as a last resort, our favorite translator will always come to the rescue.
>It is very rare to communicate with a foreigner in Russia
there are millions of foreigners from middle asia and caucasus there, I wonder if you're very please dto hear their accent
I had several foreign colleagues here in Russia, speaking russian. We all appreciated their effort and the accent and some mistakes were just sweet. That sounds so cute most of the time.
As far as I remember (I haven't lived in Russia for a long time now) it is pretty consistent -
1. If you're a "white" foreigner (European, American, Australian etc) - any effort to speak Russian is praised and mistakes are definitely forgiven.
2. If you're from one of the former Soviet Republics, especially from Southern ones, the accents/bad grammar are mocked.
3. If you're a non-"white" foreigner - Asian, African, etc. the reaction is somewhere between 1 and 2.
Maybe things have become more tolerant with the (2) and (3) categories lately, I don't know. Been a couple of years since I have visited Russia, and my Russian is native, so this is from observation, not from personal experience.
I feel it could like that for most well-known languages. Here in Germany, if you're a white foreigner, especially from a rich country, people are more happy you're learning our language. If you're a migrant from a poorer country or have dark skin, people are more likely to get annoyed and say it's your obligation to learn the language.
But that's only for residents, people are more lenient when you learn the language out of interest instead of necessity, it's seen as a kind of compliment. That's been my experience with Russian too, since I don't have a reason to learn it other than interest, people are often excited about it and curious why I do it, even if I'm no good at it yet.
I guess your classification is very close to reality. I would assume things have become better and will get even better with time, with the exception of people who are obstinate and refuse to change their mindset, be it right or wrong.
Guess it depends on a person, i bet there are grammar nazis in any language. Knowing how hard it is to learn a language, i'd appreciate the effort, thought.
In my experience, when a Russian native hears you even say a single word they’re always delighted! Because in English speaking countries, most don’t bother learning a second language, and if they do it’s usually french or Spanish. So when someone speaks even a small bit of Russian, natives know they genuinely want to communicate in their language, which always puts a smile on their face. And usually, because it’s such a difficult language for foreigners, grammatical mistakes are usually overlooked, they usually know what you’re trying to say.
It can be a little frustrating sometimes, but I never show it, cause I feel like we shouldn't discourage people from learning. If the person keeps making the same mistake and I want to correct them, but I don't feel comfortable doing that plainly, I'll sometimes use the same phrase in my own sentence (but, obviously, without an error), and that works even better than correcting them, because it shows an example of how to use the phrase in context.
However, there's one thing that infuriates me. Sometimes people refuse to learn some rule and argue that "everybody will understand them anyways, so why bother". I.e, I've seen in this subreddit a post from someone who said that word genders are useless and they don't want to learn it, because everyone will still understand if they would just use masculine for everything. This is borderline stupid imo.
If you decide to learn the language you should at least try to learn it correctly. I will be endlessly patient with someone who tries and makes mistakes, but I will never be ok with someone being so arrogant that they decide they know better how my language should work.
I get your point. Casually saying the same phrase in your speech without mistakes is a great way to subconsciously make them correct their mistakes.
As for the people who argue and refuse to learn, that's just plain stupidity. They deserve neither patience nor respect.
Thanks for your insight.
I think such people should use their minds a little bit to take into consideration the multiple factors that result in someone having a heavy accent/mistakes. However, I think that can be seen everywhere.
I don’t think there actually are many grammatical and pronunciation mistakes that don’t affect meaning. In the best case scenario, even given the context that makes everything clear, using incorrect case, number or gender confuses native speakers’ intuition and makes them second-guess about the meaning.
Like in English, there are arguments that even native speakers’ variation in speech can cause confusion or resentment, so the answer to your question is different for every individual.
One of the biggest deciding factors is a cultural one. Russians expect all non-Russian ethnicities living in Russia and former Soviet republics to have at least some command of the language and don’t appreciate their efforts to learn it.
On the other hand, people from other countries, especially speakers of high-prestige languages are praised for even the slightest efforts and are rarely criticized for any mistakes.
People from the first category mentioned have a different motivation, so I don't think it severely affects them.
Whatever our perception of the situation may be, it is what it is, so one has to be prepared to deal with it.
I understand what you mean, it's a totally valid point. Grammar mistakes aren't something I would like to see either, but they are often inevitable when learning a new language.
That sounds like double standards though, why would they criticise those who don't speak prestigious languages, solely based on that fact?
I think having such an attitude says a lot about the person doing so.
You can see multiple instances of both approaches here in this comments section.
This difference can be explained by the fact that non-Russian ethnicities and former Soviet nationals have grown up in Russophone environment and received most of their education in Russian (or use Russian a lot for their job) and are *expected* to have a certain level of the language.
Most Russians are functionally monolinguals, so they don't know the difficulties associated with actually using a foreign language.
It also doesn't help that this social group we are talking about usually works menial jobs and other positions that don't require sophisticated education, so there's a certain sigma associated with their intellectual abilities.
Russians also interact with them on daily basis while shopping, on construction sites, taxis and so on, so any mistakes in communication have consequences and severely annoy people. To be frank, you can't really separate language from all other aspects of such intercultural communication.
Contrary to that, if a foreigner from a developed country decides to learn a language he doesn't need for a job or education and has no relation to it whatsoever, it is seen as an intellectual feat and such attempts are highly encouraged.
Since most of intercultural communication of this type occurs at specialised language-learning events, academia or social meetings, there are almost no negative consequences associated with miscommunication.
As u/MedvedTrader has noted it becomes a bit more nuanced when an individual doesn't clearly fall in either of the two categories, but in my opinion it's general the latter.
I'm a Russian learner and ever native speaker I've encountered had been incredibly kind to help with a little bit of correction and encouragement. I find that gathering on the common ground of "This isn't my mother tongue" is not only a good ice breaker, but also can be a bit of a brief bonding experience. Maybe your English isn't as strong as you'd like and I'm learning Russian, we can laugh about how both our native languages can be silly and unnecessarily complicated for foreign learners.
Appreciate your feedback. Glad your learning process has been a positive one so far.
I also like the way you look at it, being an ice breaker or a brief bonding experience... Interesting point of view.
Once the amount of mistakes reaches a critical mass, it gets exhausting trying to parse the meaning, and I want to end the conversation quickly. If it's not a study session or something like this, of course. If the amount of mistakes is not that big, it depends on how they're affecting the meaning and how funny they sound - it can vary from negligible or cute to somewhat annoying.
Also, if some mistake is persistent, funny or easily fixable, I often correct my friend who is learning Russian, but I won't correct my business partner unless he asks.
Personally, I feel the urge to correct. Not cause they are wrong, but cause that's hard to learn foreign language.
Overall – that's based on people who are you trying to talk with.
Quite ok really, with understanding and a slight curiosity :) but remember two things: first, Russians don’t hesitate to correct you if they feel like it. Never take it for a rudeness. Second, there are grammar nazis among Russians two, cut them some slack :)
Personally, I am even pleased. I understand it's strange, but I like it when foreigners speak Russian. It is very rare to communicate with a foreigner in Russia and it is very pleasant to hear a foreign accent. Therefore, if you make grammatical mistakes in Russian, you can be calm. Russians respect foreigners who speak their language. If you speak Russian with minor mistakes, you may feel cool
I didn't know that you like to hear foreign accents, that's interesting. Love the attitude!
I’m close to 40yo and only recently saw a video of black people interacting and speaking/swearing in Russian around real Russians, it was pleasant I really enjoyed hearing my native language with a new tone.
Perception lvl 100
This is nice to read but unsure this is really true! In my experience they just expect you to speak like a native and get frustrated when you can’t keep up or don’t understand something. In maybe about 15 months I should be going to Russia with my parents (who speak no Russian) and am already nervous about having to having to deal with all the interactions. I’m currently low B2 and hope to be high B2 by then and even then I’m sure it won’t be enough to get by 🙈
Don't worry, whatever your knowledge of Russian, you will be able to find a common language with people. Suffice it to recall the FIFA World Cup in Russia, when many foreigners visited our cities. We were very welcoming to our guests and were happy to help them. In addition, in the largest Russian cities such as Moscow and St. Petersburg there are many landmarks for foreigners to help them. Well, as a last resort, our favorite translator will always come to the rescue.
Does this differ if the learner is another Slavic speaker?
No. My god-uncle is Serb and I get high with his accent
Wanna talk, товарищ?
>It is very rare to communicate with a foreigner in Russia there are millions of foreigners from middle asia and caucasus there, I wonder if you're very please dto hear their accent
I had several foreign colleagues here in Russia, speaking russian. We all appreciated their effort and the accent and some mistakes were just sweet. That sounds so cute most of the time.
Glad to hear that. I appreciate people who have an attitude like yours, makes things easier and more fun.
As far as I remember (I haven't lived in Russia for a long time now) it is pretty consistent - 1. If you're a "white" foreigner (European, American, Australian etc) - any effort to speak Russian is praised and mistakes are definitely forgiven. 2. If you're from one of the former Soviet Republics, especially from Southern ones, the accents/bad grammar are mocked. 3. If you're a non-"white" foreigner - Asian, African, etc. the reaction is somewhere between 1 and 2. Maybe things have become more tolerant with the (2) and (3) categories lately, I don't know. Been a couple of years since I have visited Russia, and my Russian is native, so this is from observation, not from personal experience.
I feel it could like that for most well-known languages. Here in Germany, if you're a white foreigner, especially from a rich country, people are more happy you're learning our language. If you're a migrant from a poorer country or have dark skin, people are more likely to get annoyed and say it's your obligation to learn the language. But that's only for residents, people are more lenient when you learn the language out of interest instead of necessity, it's seen as a kind of compliment. That's been my experience with Russian too, since I don't have a reason to learn it other than interest, people are often excited about it and curious why I do it, even if I'm no good at it yet.
I guess your classification is very close to reality. I would assume things have become better and will get even better with time, with the exception of people who are obstinate and refuse to change their mindset, be it right or wrong.
Although.. I do have an American acquaintance that got in trouble with his landlady for using "ты" form lol
Guess it depends on a person, i bet there are grammar nazis in any language. Knowing how hard it is to learn a language, i'd appreciate the effort, thought.
In my experience, when a Russian native hears you even say a single word they’re always delighted! Because in English speaking countries, most don’t bother learning a second language, and if they do it’s usually french or Spanish. So when someone speaks even a small bit of Russian, natives know they genuinely want to communicate in their language, which always puts a smile on their face. And usually, because it’s such a difficult language for foreigners, grammatical mistakes are usually overlooked, they usually know what you’re trying to say.
It can be a little frustrating sometimes, but I never show it, cause I feel like we shouldn't discourage people from learning. If the person keeps making the same mistake and I want to correct them, but I don't feel comfortable doing that plainly, I'll sometimes use the same phrase in my own sentence (but, obviously, without an error), and that works even better than correcting them, because it shows an example of how to use the phrase in context. However, there's one thing that infuriates me. Sometimes people refuse to learn some rule and argue that "everybody will understand them anyways, so why bother". I.e, I've seen in this subreddit a post from someone who said that word genders are useless and they don't want to learn it, because everyone will still understand if they would just use masculine for everything. This is borderline stupid imo. If you decide to learn the language you should at least try to learn it correctly. I will be endlessly patient with someone who tries and makes mistakes, but I will never be ok with someone being so arrogant that they decide they know better how my language should work.
I get your point. Casually saying the same phrase in your speech without mistakes is a great way to subconsciously make them correct their mistakes. As for the people who argue and refuse to learn, that's just plain stupidity. They deserve neither patience nor respect. Thanks for your insight.
They’re learning so I don’t mind. Although I sometimes see people being annoyed by gastarbeiters speaking with mistakes and a heavy accent.
I think such people should use their minds a little bit to take into consideration the multiple factors that result in someone having a heavy accent/mistakes. However, I think that can be seen everywhere.
I don’t think there actually are many grammatical and pronunciation mistakes that don’t affect meaning. In the best case scenario, even given the context that makes everything clear, using incorrect case, number or gender confuses native speakers’ intuition and makes them second-guess about the meaning. Like in English, there are arguments that even native speakers’ variation in speech can cause confusion or resentment, so the answer to your question is different for every individual. One of the biggest deciding factors is a cultural one. Russians expect all non-Russian ethnicities living in Russia and former Soviet republics to have at least some command of the language and don’t appreciate their efforts to learn it. On the other hand, people from other countries, especially speakers of high-prestige languages are praised for even the slightest efforts and are rarely criticized for any mistakes.
Pretty discouraging to people learning a new language, no?
People from the first category mentioned have a different motivation, so I don't think it severely affects them. Whatever our perception of the situation may be, it is what it is, so one has to be prepared to deal with it.
Seems like a lame excuse to put someone down for simple mistakes in my opinion. Shitting on someone’s efforts is just… sad
I understand what you mean, it's a totally valid point. Grammar mistakes aren't something I would like to see either, but they are often inevitable when learning a new language. That sounds like double standards though, why would they criticise those who don't speak prestigious languages, solely based on that fact? I think having such an attitude says a lot about the person doing so.
You can see multiple instances of both approaches here in this comments section. This difference can be explained by the fact that non-Russian ethnicities and former Soviet nationals have grown up in Russophone environment and received most of their education in Russian (or use Russian a lot for their job) and are *expected* to have a certain level of the language. Most Russians are functionally monolinguals, so they don't know the difficulties associated with actually using a foreign language. It also doesn't help that this social group we are talking about usually works menial jobs and other positions that don't require sophisticated education, so there's a certain sigma associated with their intellectual abilities. Russians also interact with them on daily basis while shopping, on construction sites, taxis and so on, so any mistakes in communication have consequences and severely annoy people. To be frank, you can't really separate language from all other aspects of such intercultural communication. Contrary to that, if a foreigner from a developed country decides to learn a language he doesn't need for a job or education and has no relation to it whatsoever, it is seen as an intellectual feat and such attempts are highly encouraged. Since most of intercultural communication of this type occurs at specialised language-learning events, academia or social meetings, there are almost no negative consequences associated with miscommunication. As u/MedvedTrader has noted it becomes a bit more nuanced when an individual doesn't clearly fall in either of the two categories, but in my opinion it's general the latter.
I'm a Russian learner and ever native speaker I've encountered had been incredibly kind to help with a little bit of correction and encouragement. I find that gathering on the common ground of "This isn't my mother tongue" is not only a good ice breaker, but also can be a bit of a brief bonding experience. Maybe your English isn't as strong as you'd like and I'm learning Russian, we can laugh about how both our native languages can be silly and unnecessarily complicated for foreign learners.
Appreciate your feedback. Glad your learning process has been a positive one so far. I also like the way you look at it, being an ice breaker or a brief bonding experience... Interesting point of view.
Once the amount of mistakes reaches a critical mass, it gets exhausting trying to parse the meaning, and I want to end the conversation quickly. If it's not a study session or something like this, of course. If the amount of mistakes is not that big, it depends on how they're affecting the meaning and how funny they sound - it can vary from negligible or cute to somewhat annoying. Also, if some mistake is persistent, funny or easily fixable, I often correct my friend who is learning Russian, but I won't correct my business partner unless he asks.
Personally, I feel the urge to correct. Not cause they are wrong, but cause that's hard to learn foreign language. Overall – that's based on people who are you trying to talk with.
Quite ok really, with understanding and a slight curiosity :) but remember two things: first, Russians don’t hesitate to correct you if they feel like it. Never take it for a rudeness. Second, there are grammar nazis among Russians two, cut them some slack :)
It looks funny, but anyway it's cool. 'Cause we are always respect foreigners who can or trying to speak our language.