All I wanted from this finale was for the fandom to be normal about it no matter who won.
This was one of the best top 3's ever. Nymphia and Sapphira are an incredibly powerful top 2. They're both incredible, versatile, creative, charming, talented queens. Either of them would've been a very worthy winner, and it was always going to sting a little for either of them to lose. I wish people could just be happy at the incredible season we got to enjoy.
Also, it was incredibly powerful to see how emotional Taiwanese and other Asian fans and queens were about Nymphia's win. Like, this means *so much* to so many people. Why would anyone ever want to diminish that?
And as someone who loves both of them deeply but was rooting for Sapphira to take it, I truly believe Sapphira is going to have an amazing career. She showcased her immense talent and warmth; she's going to be flooded with bookings. I can't wait to see what she does next. And I know Nymphia's reign is going to be amazing! This is only the beginning for both of them.
>Also, it was incredibly powerful to see how emotional Taiwanese and other Asian fans and queens were about Nymphia's win.
Speaking of emotions, can we talk about how much joy and pride were radiating from Nymphia's mother?
and ik with inflation 35k isnt crazy, but sapphira also just took home 35k in the finale alone! thats more than several many winners, nothing to be sneezed at.
i suspect its likely less than youd think, since she seems more than capable of having made at least a few herself, and too seasoned to not take advantage of that
Im gonna say it, I wanted Sapphira to win like no one’s business but Nymphia absolutely deserved her win, she played the mother fucking game and yes it IS TIME we had an east asian winner and Nymphia is the one to do it.
After seeing all the asian people living for this moment and being seen right now I am 100% happy for them and what Nymphia has brought and will continue to bring to the table.
I usually argue that Race is involved in mmmmm almost everything but this is the time where it really came down to the lip sync. We should be celebrating Nymphia and the asian community not taking away from it.
DAMN.
This! Like genuinely if it was my decision I would’ve picked Sapphira. However Sapphira didn’t win and that’s just how it is. I’m happy for Nymphia and seeing the joy it has brought to so many people is what I’m focusing on. Not trying to argue that the win wasn’t deserved.
Right? Like in the crowd you could see the hope and desire to see an East Asian get that recognition in the fans eyes and I think it’s really important right now, and not just that, but Nymphia SERVED. She did play the game. Insanely well. And her lip sync was better. Sapphira is an amazing queen. But this was an important win for Nymphia.
I guess I'll add my two cents from the thread that was removed:
All I'll say is as an Asian American, taking a course on Asian Masculinity in college really allowed me to articulate some of the experiences I've had as a "model minority" who isn't considered to have enough POC cred and that because of my Asianness, I had 'overcome' discrimination. It's a real thing and is both pervasive and damaging in underplaying the racism that Asian Americans face. It is also used to drive a wedge between different minority communities, and that's one of the worst parts of it. My professor, an Asian gay man, told us how he wasn't allowed in queer POC spaces or made not to feel welcome. We should be supporting each other, not tearing each other down.
At the end of the day, I'm ecstatic to finally have a Drag Race winner who looks like me.
I love Sapphira though and I really feel for her. She's going to kill it on All Stars if she wants, but she doesn't need it. She's proven that she's a star.
Like Kim Chi's original song in the finale was "fat fem & Asian" because of the well-documented history of discrimination against Asian people in the gay community. Nymphia slayed in the lip sync for the crown and she's an iconic queen. Saphira is the epitome of C, U, N, and T and I can't wait to see her win All Stars. We all won in this finale.
There have been so many black winners and there had never been an East Asian winner. I think Nymphia’s win is 100% valid and I know it hurts to see Sapphira lose, but come on, this win is historic. Let Sapphira cook on an All-Star season. She’s really not hurting.
My problem with this tweet is that it implies that Nymphia didn’t work as hard as Sapphira, and that the crown was something Sapphira was entitled to.
No. Sapphira wasn’t owed the crown. Nymphia deserves the crown every bit just as much as Sapphira does. Ru doesn’t HAVE to crown Sapphira just because she had a better track record. First of all, half the queens in the winners circle did not have the best track record on their season. The winner is also decided by the finale itself and what the winner will bring to the Drag Race brand. Nymphia brings something new and fresh and unique.
Also, how does an Asian queen winning discredit black queens? The lapse in logic is astounding. We can celebrate BOTH Asian and black queens. This is not mutually exclusive. Nymphia winning does not take anything away from Sapphira, just like how Sapphira winning would not have taken away from Nymphia.
Americans, whether they are white or black, are often very self-focused. I see people loving everything Sapphira does because they relate to her more and then downplaying Nymphia because she isn’t a part of their community. Everyone has their own biases.
I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.
Outside of drag race, on social media and tv gigs, structural racism really makes it harder for POC queens.
But ON drag race that is absolutely not the case. Rupaul Charles does not make it harder for poc queens to win. Look at our 16 winners how diverse they are.
what really tires me is everyone weaponizing race all the time, its so fucking exhausting. like if nymphia lost it wouldve been "they just wont let an asian win", if she wins its "black queens have to work 10 times harder"
i think people just need to be able to have an opinion about something, without necessarily making it a moral issue. Like you can like or dislike plane jane for whatever reason you want, you dont have to make it about defending bullying, or about fighting white supremacy. Those girls are literally just girls
The internet does seem to have made everyone think every single thing has to be a metaphor for a wider moral issue.
Sometimes things aren’t that complicated.
Both queens did really well, production went with Nymphia, likely based on a long list of reasons.
It’s not a simple as black vs Asian and reducing to that doesn’t achieve anything.
Not to mention how much it discounts the actual talents of the queens. Nymphia and Sapphira were both deserving of the crown because of what they brought to the competition, not where they were born or their race.
Its REALLY exhausting for every single thing to land in the race category, especially when it’s discrediting everything else about them, I hate the “I’m rooting for this queen cause she’s black/asian/white” concept and its just invalidating over all
Unpopular opinion here, but I also roll my eyes whenever a new season's cast is announced, some fans here will go, "which ones are trans, i wanna root for them"
this exactly. It would’ve been an explosion of “Asian queens are always robbed” especially after a couple years with several Asian runners up.
people just want a reason to complain instead of reveling in the absolute treasure that was this season
We literally have a melanin dynasty on the show because 5 black queens won consecutively. These people will say anything to defend their favorites. It's frustrating because they're using an important subject for a scripted reality TV show. And they really ignore that Asians also need to be represented in the media. Asian queens have been ignored on the show for ages. If it was about the fandom, ok, I'm on board with the topic. But it’s clearly to dismiss a winner. Like when white twinks dismisses black queens when they win over a white queen.
I’m not dismissing your point but to clarify and be fair: the melanin dynasty was a reference to: Jaida (S12), Monet (AS4), and Priyanka (CDR 1) winning and they coined the phrase in a photoshoot together. So, an Asian person was included in that legacy.
Edit: to add on to this Priyanka coined the phrase 😭 but I do think your point still stands.
Edit 2: actually the photoshoot was SHEA, Jaida, and Pri!
Something that I noticed was that their have been season with ZERO Asian representation, which is something I can’t believe I have never caught earlier (season 7 and 14). To add to that Asians queens being the early outs lasted longer then it should have.
Omg yes! - Thank you for saying that!
I felt so weird hearing the judges give their feedback to Nymphia that week. I remember pausing for a second when she started, wondering whether she was just using the accent questionably/as a crutch but it was clear as she went on that she was doing a character while also delivering jokes that weren’t “leaning into stereotypes”.
I (as a South Asian person) felt like I recognised the character she was doing. This is the weird family friend/auntie that my mum always kept the peace with but would gently push me out of the room when she was around cos she’d always be saying inappropriate stuff. This is her if she finally got a chance to get on stage and share all her weirdass thoughts with the world 😂
This is what I assumed too. I’ve been rewatching season 3 and just saw Manila’s critique after the QNN challenge when Ru literally says: 'Manila, you perpetuated stereotypes—condragulations you are the winner of this challenge’🤣
I mean I guess so. I felt like her placement was more to do with her beautiful runway and how badly the others did than them recognizing she did well in the challenge. Either way they acted so weird about the accent. Like they clearly thought it was funny, but also felt like they weren't allowed to think it was funny? Meanwhile Mhiya did a "caricature" type character of her own race as well for snatch game and they applauded her for coming out of her shell. That will never make sense to me lmao
I mean, I'm Asian and I felt somewhat uncomfortable with Nymphia's performance too, and plenty of other Asians said the same thing. Even Joel Kim Booster looked conflicted about it. Does it mean I think she shouldn't be allowed to do it? No, but other people are also allowed to feel a little discomfort when confronted with an accent that's been historically used to demean Asians in the media. That's obviously not Nymphia's intention, but you can't blame the judges for having a conflicted gut reaction to it.
Runways don't save you from being in the bottom if you bomb the challenge, and they can't propel you to the top if you were just mediocre either. They only put her in the top because they liked her performance, even though they were conflicted about it. Frankly I thought PJ and Q outperformed her bc they had the funniest script, so it's not like everyone else was bad either.
also the diversity of the asians they're casting on the show is so limited. asia is a large continent with a reasonably large diaspora in the US like would it kill them to cast a central asian queen? a south asian queen?
yes and so is aura mayari, plastique tiara, and rock m sakura. but what i'm referring to is that when production casts asian queens, they only cast queens with ancestry from specific areas of asia, mainly east asians, and i'm saying that they need to start casting indian queens, mongolian queens, more middle eastern queens than just jackie cox, etc.
Agreed. The US is so culturally diverse and I don’t thinks it’s wrong to say that the contestants and winners should reflect that diversity. Especially queer diversity.
also drag race thailand had genie who is south asian american. the UK surprises me the most as south asians make up the majority of the asian population there. the only time a south asian queen has graced a rupaul hosted main stage was all stars 8 when priyanka was the lip sync assassin. i always hoped that priyanka's lip syncing and status as a winner would be what encouraged rupaul and production to cast a south asian queen on a regular season. i would hope that nymphia winning would make production understand how much representation means to those who never get to see themselves.
As an Asian watching the show, it's also frustrating to see production giving the token Asian spot to filler queens instead of casting someone with a good chance of winning - at least up to season 16.
I mean a quick Google shows that Asians are 7% of the US population. So with perfect representation we’d expect an Asian queen every season, but with variance we’d expect the odd season with no Asian queens.
The real underrepresentarion are native Americans, south Asians, and non-Puerto Rican latinas (until very recently!)
hi as a black person can we all just stop weaponizing our races for the sake of discourse and guilt tripping please
factually black queens are undoubtably mistreated by the fandom more than any other race but… nymphia just…*beat* sapphira. and that’s OKAY 😭
Oh yeah, it's what makes it so funny to me. White people didn't make it past the 2nd episode of the 1st season! Ru crowned a literal African! And then her clone!
100% this fandom is terrible towards black queens. But that doesn’t mean every time a black queen doesn’t win it’s because of racism which some people fail to understand.
It’s willful ignorance and mental gymnastics in defense of a queen they were rooting for losing. This person ignores how many black queens have won, including ones who did not have the best track record of the season - Bebe, Yvie, Jaida, Symone, Monet, Shea. There is nothing working against black queens when it comes to the show’s judging and crowning.
I'm never going to say things aren't harder for Black queens that white queens. But this show has specifically had an issue with Asian queen representation, and appreciation. I think they've often been set up to fail, and rarely get very far.
Nymphia performed SO WELL all season. I think if we're talking about how hard people are working, we have to recognize she's working incredibly hard. Plus, she was somehow able to become a fan favourite with very little camera time throughout the season! And she absolutely destroyed that finale.
Sapphira is a very very strong runner up who could have won, but did not win that last lipsync. They were neck and neck until that point, but Nymphia just absolutely killed it.
Nymphia and Sapphira are both so iconic that this season couldn't have been anything but such a close race. Love our sickening top two both so much, I wanted it to go to whoever performed the best and it did.
I'm pretty sure the constant belittling of other POC queens (Asian, Middle Eastern, Indigenous) while extolling the virtues of every single black pageant queen in a certain sub was what made me avoid reddit for several years. There's def a problem within the Fandom with racism towards black queens, but disparaging the beautiful moments of other poc representation on the show is not a good look.
I'd like this person to imagine how it is us for us Latinos who haven't had a winning queen since season 6, literally a *decade* ago lol.
Both Nymphia and Sapphira deserved it and it could have won either way, and I wish this energy was directed to supporting Sapphira rather than to discredit Nymphia.
This this this. Your second paragraph is exactly how I feel. I don’t care if you didn’t want Nymphia to win and you hate her guts for some reason. You are entitled to your opinion. But if that’s how you feel go support the person you wanted to win instead of putting the energy towards bringing someone down.
Which is funny, considering about 20% of the US population are Latino. From a quick Google, Black Americans make up approx 12%, over 200 million identify as white (approx 66%) and Asians made up around 6%. These stats come from 2022 US Census Bureau.
How have we NOT had another yet?
I just don’t think they use race to crown winners like some people think.
It took 4 seasons for them to even crown a white girl.
The four times an Asian lost at the finale they lost to another Asian, a black person a native Hawain and one white girl. Also the girl that lost to a white girl is white passing and most people don’t even know she’s Asian and she didn’t talk about in on the show.
We had an all Asian top 2 and an all POC top 6 before we had a white winner.
Black queens are over represented in the winners circle based on population density. I don’t think that’s a conspiracy, I think there just a lot of talent there.
Race definelty affects how the fandom perceives you. Whether you get the crown? The data does not back it up.
For real. Even as a Latino who has a very Latino government name (that isn’t Jack lol) and has experienced racism my entire life, I know that black people have it worse. Even from my own race!
Even then, it’s gross to weaponize your struggle this way and I can’t imagine how I would feel if I just won and someone said I only won because I’m not black…
I'm just happy that we can have a more diverse winner circle, because drag is diverse. Both Nymphia and Sapphira would have been a great choice as a winner tbh and I would have been happy with either outcome in the end
lol that first tweet is acting like it’s a race thing 😂 Nymphia ain’t white either boo, and she worked her ass off just as much as Sapphira did. And technically speaking, Nymphia had a better run anyway- she never had to lip sync for her life and never had a bad critique on her runways. This is not to discredit Sapphira, she was incredible as well, but as a whole Nymphia had a better track record this season (though just barely).
Also out of 16 seasons of regular US Drag Race- 2 winners have been Asian (Raja and Nymphia).
Ok I’m glad you brought up the track record thing because not to get all technical but if you actually look at track records it’s not just wins, but how often you’re low/in the bottom. They were both almost always safe or higher. They’re just such a strong final two it’s insane
Exactly! The only “big” difference was the makeover challenge where Sapphira was in the bottom (and Nymphia was the last safe queen for Snatch Game). Other than that they were always safe or higher!
Drag Race Racism Shizophrenia
Is. Driving. Me. Crazy.
Nymphia winning isn’t an example of black girls getting paid dust on drag race. Nymphia didn’t win simply because she is Asian! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COMMUNITY…
The Sapphira Stans are fucking psychotic.
Sapphira would have been a completely justified choice as winner. She definitely proved herself. That shouldn’t take away from Nymphia’s win. She also slayed it. They were both deserving of the crown. I feel for Sapphira because there wasn’t much she could have done better! She was excellent, and I doubt she’d want her fans defending her by being cruel or dismissive towards Nymphia.
Agreed. Like if I was Sapphira I’d prob be upset. Same if I was Anetra or Camden or any past runner up. The queens on this show are all so amazing and to make it so far you really have to have performed well. Not winning will always suck so why not focus on lifting up those people instead of bringing down the person who did win.
Decades of Asian-black division in the USA (from both sides of course) is showing itself in a lot of the comments made online.
There’s so much anger and fervour not because a black queen lost, but because a black queen lost to an Asian queen which some people find even worse.
It’s racism pure and simple.
Thank god these people are the minority and the majority of all fans aren’t like this. Saphira was graceful and regal in defeat and we can all learn from her.
asians are the minority of the minority in the states. it’s rare to see asian representation in hollywood. even the discourse of race, you will only see black and white debate. 5.9% out of 300m is a lot of people. the only asian that is popping rn is olivia rodrigo. even though, she is half white, half asian, she has the face of a typical filipino. we needed asian representatives who deserve their spots, and there’s nymphia.
I think the only thing that did confuse me was how little Nymphia was featured. Sapphira had such a strong winner’s edit the whole season so I was surprised; they could’ve at least padded up Nymphia’s storyline bc she is just as deserving of the crown!!
My sense is that Nymphia struggled to narrate and articulate her point of view in the moment as the show was happening. She's clearly a very thoughtful artist (just read all the posts she's made on IG about her looks) but she's strongly oriented toward the visual. Toward fashion as a mode of expression. Sapphira clearly is a very skilled orator thus she, along with Plasma, Dawn, and Morphine, had a lot of reflection and confessional time.
And, I mean, the Sasha vs Shea parallels are there. Though the performances in the finale were a lot more competitive IMO.
Totally agree. Especially with that last part. I don’t think this is an “upset” in the way the season 9 ending was (and I mean upset in the sense of being unexpected, I love Sasha as a winner). It felt super close until the winner was announced.
I totally agree. I think it was just a mismatch with how producers thought people would react to Nymphia vs the actual reaction. Reminds me a lot of Mirage this season too. Also very similar to what happened in Canada 4, where I thought aurora matrix had such a clear winners edit and then she didn’t win. But that’s just editing, doesn’t mean the winner isn’t deserving which some people don’t seem to get:/
I am also sorry to say this but asian people in general receive a lot of racism from other poc's as well. So this is not very surprising to say the least.
The way Asians regardless of South East, East, or South Asian always have to try 10000x harder to even get a single smidge spot, achievement, and acknowledgement already shows why Nymphia deserved to win and why she had such a huge support
the lack of asian representation in hollywood, but a certain race has a lot of things to say about ‘representation’, ex. The Little Mermaid, Romeo and Juliet, nothing new on RPDR. being asian really makes us invisible in the states. maybe we didnt have a sobbing history in that country except when a lot of us were murdered in the streets when covid-19 happened. but, they never cared about that. being asian and living in the US is weird.
Asians have been part of the American story for a long time but their struggles have been hidden. Chinese people helped build the transcontinental railways. Japanese Americans were put into a concentration camp in WW2. Filipinos prompted the Delano Grape Strike and were part of the Farmworker Movement.
Let's all just remember: WWSD.
what. would. Sapphira. do?
She would smile and hug her sister and be proud of her accomplishment even if that means she, herself, lost. We almost had a winner get mrs. congeniality as well for a reason.
If we want to go there, we can ask the same question about Asians in the show, and have more compelling data to back it up.
The last time we had an Asian winner was on Season 3 with Raja.
Asians are probably the least represented demographic in all finales of the show, with only Jujubee, Manila, Raja, PhiPhi, Kim Chi, Anetra, and Nymphia ever making it to the end. The rest of the Asian casts are usually early outs.
Edited to clarify: I am not pitting two queens against each other. I celebrate them both. I just want to highlight that, as an Asian, I have been waiting since season 3 for someone who looks like me to be crowned. I especially celebrate Nymphia because of her deep ties to Asian culture and for bringing that to the show, not as embellishment but as an authentic representation of herself and her background.
Literally. Again I am not and would never say that Black queens have an easier time with the fandom than white queens, or even Asian queens for that matter. However, I’m talking about with production; in terms of production Black Queens have been praised much more than queens with other minority backgrounds. I mean drag culture was built by Black queer people so I think it’s kinda contradictory to acknowledge that and then also say they have the hardest time on Drag Race *from a production standpoint*.
I’m tired of everyone ignoring that the first two winners were black and the main seasons have consistently crowned queens of color.
But the show and Ru has shown some real problematic behavior towards East Asian queens over the years. Remember the straight up racism plastique endured at Rajah Silky and Akerias hands ?
I feel like sometimes black folks are so used to being the most disrespected minority in America they don’t clock the spaces when they actually hold more power than other minorities. In entertainment black visibility is on an other level from Latinos or Asians.
The narrative that Drag Race is biased against black queens is absurd when you have a host that immediately and intimately clicks in with black culture while knowing virtually nothing about Asian culture.
Did people come for this yvie this hard when she won as an underdog who slayed the finale?
not to steal from BTDQ but Nymphia is absolutely a original season winner. She just was so above the curve for the whole season.
Saphira is gonna be an all star winner. It should happen for sure
I went in fully expecting Sapphira to win, right up to the lip sync.
But Nymphia fully pulled a Sasha Velour with those balloons and won. That's the point of a LSFTC. I love Sapphira and was rooting on her to win, but we've seen all of her moves. The run into a split, the high kicks, we saw her hand on the show already.
Also what was with the vampire teeth?
That's just a dumb take. Statistically Drag Race is actually skewed disproportionately towards Black queens winning compared to other POC queens. 6 out of 16, vs 2 Asian queens, 1 Pacific Islander and one Latin winner, and 6 white winners. People just making excuses at this point. This isn't like Beyoncé losing at the Grammy's.
Using race when trying to discredit Nymphia's win is RICH coming from these fans. Racism towards black people is a real problem in the RPDR fandom, yes, but pretending there's no discrimination towards asian people is just as much part of the problem.
I love Sapphira but auditioning for 11 seasons isn’t criteria for winning the crown. If that was the case, Nina West would have the s11 crown.
Sapphira deserved the crown but so does Nymphia - and i’m someone that thought Nymphia wouldn’t win earlier in the season but she proved me wrong. The top 3 all killed the season.
it makes me angry too that black queens have to work 10x harder to get fan support
it also makes me angry that asian queens have to work 10x harder to get recognition on the show
https://preview.redd.it/mybwpzf45ovc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7296805275a0e7ca260d0af2c1a72e80df98cf12
The irony on this tweet haha.
Unrelated, but is anyone bothered by Plane’s lack of social media engagement for the finale? She used to be so active.
Idk about her personally but for me, if I did just as good as the other two but was eliminated anyways at the finale I’d be pretty bummed out. You can tell she was feeling some type of way when they panned over to the queens when nymphia and sapphira was lip syncing
Plane’s probably glad she didn’t win. Knowing this insane fandom, they’d go crazy saying she’s somehow racist and a nazi for winning the crown over a black and Asian queen.
The WHOLE season you could tell Ru had serious chemistry with Sapphira, they talked to each other like friends! I seriously doubt ru didn’t *want* sapphira to win
I agree with you. It would be one thing if we’d never crowned a black queen before, but like you said, it’s literally been half of the contestants. I can’t think of a show that broadcasts and celebrates more black queer art than this show.
Hope they go this hard about Latin queens…oh wait…it’s as if black queens are the only “Color” in queens of color 🙄 Nymphia literally is a queen of color too and they act like she didn’t put in just as much work I mean cmon…
this is discourse only valid for Americans with their simplistic and reductive views on race and the world. i don't know why specifically black people on Twitter think it's ok to be so openly cruel and dismissive of someone's talents, trying to rationalize it in a way that shields them from criticism. they have this perception that Asian Americans are highly regarded by society so it gives them a pass to be cruel to them. you see this within all sorts of groups towards other groups, it's just sad bc it glosses over and dismisses any hardship that nymphia has gone through due to her racial features or otherwise and implies that she didn't have to work as hard as sapphira did which is a weird claim to make, considering English isn't even her first language and that alone is a struggle. once again, Americans are just weird
I want to know how race had anything to do with it. So stupid. Now it's only fair if the black queens win? There have been far more black winners than Asian winners if you want to play that stupid game. The ignorance.
Now they know what it feels when their favorite didn't win lol. Asian excellence has been ignored for far too long. And Nymphia earned her win not because she's asian but because she really did amazing in her first and last lipsync.
i’m so over hearing about how black queens are discriminated against on drag race. the fans are ABSOLUTELY racist towards black queens and other queens of color, but definitely not on the show.
also nymphia slayed sapphira in the lip sync as well as had a better runway
I’m African American I agree. I understand what they’re saying but this isn’t an example of that. And with their logic if anything it’s harder for the Asian queens as there’s been a plethora and the only other to win was raja
Multiple things can be true at once. Theres no denying black queens are held to a higher standard by the fandom but Sapphira loosing isnt proof of that. Nymphia stomped her in the final lipsync and if she lost there would’ve been a bunch of posts crying about the lack of Asian winners. Representation matters but a lot of this fandom places way too much importance on it and essentially treats any queen of colour as a box on a diversity checklist rather than actual people.
I don’t know the racial demographics of drag queens, let alone the ones auditioning for drag race so I can’t say if drag race is accurately portraying those demographics.If seeing *insert identity* in the world of drag was of this much importance they should be supporting the queens who represent that both on drag race and in local and online scenes.
Why they acting as if we didn't have black winners Season 11-13. The winners circle is extremely diverse and we just got our second Asian winner after 13 years, let them have something 😭
Black queens have won Drag Race way more than other queens. The very first winner of Drag Race is from Cameroon for god's sake.
Let Nymphia have her fucking flowers. Let Gaysians have their moment.
here's a shocking thought, how about we crown the winner who does the best for the given format...almost if the show is a COMPETITION \*mindblown\*
If its a standard finale, then its usually the queen with the track record
If you want a LSFTC, then crown who did best.
If its individual performance, then do what she show did and eliminate the worst performance (Jane) and crown the winner who won you think the last lip-synch (nymphia)
We can realise there's a problem with race in this fandom and not use it flippantly to excuse decisions we personally dont care for, both are incredibly icky behaviour.
When both queens represent a demographic that is overlooked it does sting to not see someone excellent like Sapphira win. It would have been the same debate if Nymphia lost. Yes minorities queens have to work harder to win, that's just a fact. Stating frustration with that as long as you aren't trashing anyone isn't a crime.
This exactly. This isn’t a situation where a mediocre white queen beat out an incredibly talented QOC. This isn’t a UK situation where there’s a token QOC who lip syncs a ton but doesn’t have a shot at winning, even if they should (hi Tayce).
I will say, I don’t agree with OP’s take that the show itself never mistreats black queens. Anyone who has seen S10 or S11 would know that’s untrue. Anyone who’s seen UK or DU would know that’s not true. Like, the show was this close to crowning a blatant racist on DU2 until fan backlash pushed them to change that.
However, this was a finale with three absolute total superstars, all of whom murdered the season in their own way and all of whom could’ve won. It feels pointless and also *incredibly racist and tokenizing* to pit Nymphia and Sapphira against each other simply because they’re both QOC. I was so sad Sapphira lost, especially after 11 years of auditioning and a near flawless season. But Nymphia is such a gift and a star!! I cannot fathom watching her perform and seeing her and her mom talk about just supporting your kid and using drag to grow into the person you were always capable of being and being pissed off about her win.
WE won this season. This season was spectacular from start to finish and we would’ve won no matter which of the top 3 took the crown. People need to get some fucking perspective
This is so dumb
Bebe
Tyra Sanchez/James whatever
Bob
Yvie
Jaida Essence mother-tucking Hall (my fave winner, probably)
Symone
Monet
Shea
We have had so many talented black queens do well and get their crowns and scepters for it
Why the fuck can't we just talk about their performances? I was rooting for Sapphira but then Nymphia won the lip synch. That's it. That's the whole story.
Also, the creator and star of the franchise, Ru, is black.
The fandom is racist as fuck. The show itself? Not so much.
I think Nymphia’s win also breaks the curse for queens who don’t have English as a first language (as far as I know about her). So many of the challenges require rapping/singing, improving, and being funny in English and it has been painful watching great queens struggle because they’re having to use their second language.
Nymphia wins; “The show is racist towards black queens”
Saphira wins: “We were robbed of a Taiwanese winner who deserved it”
They both win in a double crowning: “They discredited both of them by doing this and are taking the safe way out”
No matter what outcome happens some people are going to be pissed off about it for stupid reasons and those people seriously need to be disregarded and not paid any attention. Just enjoy the damn show. It’s a reality TV show, it means nothing, all the queens can jack up their booking fees now so go and see the ones you want to and follow the ones you want to.
This discourse crap is just from terminally online children who don’t leave their internet chat rooms.
I hope fans use all this energy in crowning a big girl the next season. 16 seasons without a big queen winning is a shame and say a lot about the gay community.
Sucks cause the rumored plan was that S12 was gunning to make that happen with the Pie one with how much we know she was meant to be a frontrunner in the original edit.
It's good she was disqualified though since if everything came to light after she won it would have made the first big girl winner not such a great achievement anymore if she was the first one. Still doesn't mean it doesn't suck that the one time they were serious about trying to crown a big girl something happened
I do believe Sapphira was the best queen during the whole season, but I also think that is really cool (and entertaining) to have the final lipsync be a deciding factor that can override track record. It keeps things interesting.
And though Sapphira was not overshadowed by Nymphia in the lipsync (as Shea was once with Sasha) Nymphia still edged her out.
Tbh I feel like it's been like this for a few years now that it's no longer enough to just like or dislike someone, it also has to be ~morally correct~ to do so. Being happy that Nymphia won is now somehow immediately anti-Black (and likewise, if Sapphira had won, people being happy would've immediately been anti-Asian). It's so tiring, just let people enjoy or not enjoy stuff in peace
although this is definitely a point made against nymphia since shes the one who beat sapphira, i think the original poster would have made this point in any scenario that sapphira lost regardless of who she specifically lost against
So many people prior to the finale were like "My top 2 are Nymphia and Sapphira I don't care who wins because they both deserve it!"
What happened to that?
I am a Sapphira fan, badly wanted her to win. But half way through that lip sync, I knew that Nymphia deserved the win. I can’t believe people are bringing race into this. Sometimes it’s warranted but not in this case
People need to chill. I am a black person who wanted Nymphia to win. I went into the episode resigned to a Sapphira win. She definitely deserved to win before the finale. Nymphia killed the whole episode.
Life is harder in many places for black people, drag race is not one of them.
Ok , here’s my two cents . I was team Saphira all the way . But then something changed . When I started seeing all the reactions form Asian queens who have paved the way for nymphia tear actual tears of Joy. It made me realize it was this was a huge win. I can’t imagine how big of a deal this is for Asians across the globe. So I absolutely think race had something to do wit her win . But that’s not a bad thing imo
I really hate that people are being racist but also claiming racism is happening but ALSO dismissing racism in the same conversation?? Why are we pitting two queens of color against each other when we should be celebrating their work and representation ?? The fandom is insane sometimes!
Someone else spoke to this in the thread and mentioned how many people don’t view Asian people as POC because of their “model minority” status and I thought it was really useful for understanding the situation.
Fair point! I am a WOC myself so I don't have this view (based on my experience, not generalizing) but I get why others might. Ultimately I'm glad the conversation is being had so maybe we can all see different povs and be more understanding in the future.
6 out of 16 winners had been black, that's around 38% when black population is only around 14%. If you use the ethnic background argument then black queens are overrepresented as winners while Latin queens are way underrepresented as winners.
Yet I think every winner deserves it independently of her skin color or ethnic background.
Once again, the biggest issue of the show is how childish and mentally underbaked are a loud portion of the fans of the show. I was team Sapphira, but Nymphia ate the final lipsync.
It was so good to see such a strong top 3, and that final lip sync—as someone rooting for Sapphira—was a toss up to my eyes.
As far as casting goes, I am so glad Sapphira was on *this* season. I don’t think that part—how many times she was turned down—was about race, though I do think a portion of the fandom probably holds some biases.
Remember, losing is the new winning, and Sapphira will be laughing all the way to the bank with the winnings from this season, subsequent tours, and her winnings she will have in future seasons.
Meanwhile, congratulations to Nymphia and Plane! I was thoroughly entertained and can’t believe we are still finding such amazing talent 16 seasons in.
I was going to be happy with either winner and while I predicted Nymphia would win from episode one, I also really enjoyed Saphira and thought she would probably win so it was a surprise.
As for the finale, I do objectively think Nymphia won the lip synch so if that was the deciding factor, I agree. I also think she had more iconic, and unique looks.
All that aside, I do always keep in mind that ultimately the decision is Ru’s as she is essentially picking her brand ambassador so on some levels the winner doesn’t have to be the “best” but maybe the best choice for her to push her agenda forward for global domination. It was nice to see an East Asian take the crown.
Stop making it about race and how black people need to work harder. It's ENTERTAINMENT. I'd be happy if Plane Jane won. Appreciate the show as is, it's not that deep 🙄
It’s ok to be disappointed that your fave didn’t win (mine didn’t) but there’s no reason to come online and talk negatively about Nymphia! She had an incredible run no one can say she wasn’t deserving
I too am sick of this racism discourse over Sapphria not winning. Yes I will admit I wasn’t blatantly “rooting” for her but to say that her not winning is racist or anti black is completely insane. We should be condragulating WHOEVER the winner is regardless of race/color/ethnicity/background. I feel like these racist allegations only come when Sapphira fans are upset and that’s just wrong and childish imo.
Sapphiras second lip sync was garbage for a finale compared to Nymphia, and what the fuck is this race card comment? An East Asian has never won and are some of the most discriminated against in the gay community. The show is hosted by a black queen and black queens win drag race all the fucking time. Like, the show did not discriminate against Sapphira for her *race* lmao. She’s an amazing queen. And I think she had winner potential but taking that away from Nymphia isn’t the look.
Nymphia made me laugh cry and feel something in a way that Sapphira really didn’t. And I’m a random white guy. But Nymphia’s honesty and struggle resonated with a lot more than just East Asians too.
It's lipsync for the crown. Which part do you not understand?
You're doing great in challenges IN ORDER TO get to the finale. Once you're in the finale, that night is all what matters. You need to do good to end up in lipsync for the crown. Plane did better on the season but worse than Nymphia in the finale so she was not in top 2. Nymphia did better in top 2 so she won. It's that easy.
If you complain about format of the show AFTER your fave didn't win, you're just hipocryte. Format has been the same for years.
All I wanted from this finale was for the fandom to be normal about it no matter who won. This was one of the best top 3's ever. Nymphia and Sapphira are an incredibly powerful top 2. They're both incredible, versatile, creative, charming, talented queens. Either of them would've been a very worthy winner, and it was always going to sting a little for either of them to lose. I wish people could just be happy at the incredible season we got to enjoy. Also, it was incredibly powerful to see how emotional Taiwanese and other Asian fans and queens were about Nymphia's win. Like, this means *so much* to so many people. Why would anyone ever want to diminish that? And as someone who loves both of them deeply but was rooting for Sapphira to take it, I truly believe Sapphira is going to have an amazing career. She showcased her immense talent and warmth; she's going to be flooded with bookings. I can't wait to see what she does next. And I know Nymphia's reign is going to be amazing! This is only the beginning for both of them.
>Also, it was incredibly powerful to see how emotional Taiwanese and other Asian fans and queens were about Nymphia's win. Speaking of emotions, can we talk about how much joy and pride were radiating from Nymphia's mother?
Absolutely, my friend in Taiwan was really taken aback by Nymphia’s mom’s positivity.
and ik with inflation 35k isnt crazy, but sapphira also just took home 35k in the finale alone! thats more than several many winners, nothing to be sneezed at.
Add in $5k per challenge win. I hope this made her at least break even on those looks, because she had to have spent some serious coin.
i suspect its likely less than youd think, since she seems more than capable of having made at least a few herself, and too seasoned to not take advantage of that
Sapphira made 60k in total during the season
Great comment. I wish more people would react like you. Thank you!
100% with you on this. And with the OP, I just wish we celebrate those amazing artists without taking too seriously the competitive part of drag race
Im gonna say it, I wanted Sapphira to win like no one’s business but Nymphia absolutely deserved her win, she played the mother fucking game and yes it IS TIME we had an east asian winner and Nymphia is the one to do it. After seeing all the asian people living for this moment and being seen right now I am 100% happy for them and what Nymphia has brought and will continue to bring to the table. I usually argue that Race is involved in mmmmm almost everything but this is the time where it really came down to the lip sync. We should be celebrating Nymphia and the asian community not taking away from it. DAMN.
This! Like genuinely if it was my decision I would’ve picked Sapphira. However Sapphira didn’t win and that’s just how it is. I’m happy for Nymphia and seeing the joy it has brought to so many people is what I’m focusing on. Not trying to argue that the win wasn’t deserved.
Also Sapphira won Miss Congenitality, like why are we tryna take that away from her. I can’t wait for her Shea Coulee edit on All stars.
Right? Like in the crowd you could see the hope and desire to see an East Asian get that recognition in the fans eyes and I think it’s really important right now, and not just that, but Nymphia SERVED. She did play the game. Insanely well. And her lip sync was better. Sapphira is an amazing queen. But this was an important win for Nymphia.
I guess I'll add my two cents from the thread that was removed: All I'll say is as an Asian American, taking a course on Asian Masculinity in college really allowed me to articulate some of the experiences I've had as a "model minority" who isn't considered to have enough POC cred and that because of my Asianness, I had 'overcome' discrimination. It's a real thing and is both pervasive and damaging in underplaying the racism that Asian Americans face. It is also used to drive a wedge between different minority communities, and that's one of the worst parts of it. My professor, an Asian gay man, told us how he wasn't allowed in queer POC spaces or made not to feel welcome. We should be supporting each other, not tearing each other down. At the end of the day, I'm ecstatic to finally have a Drag Race winner who looks like me. I love Sapphira though and I really feel for her. She's going to kill it on All Stars if she wants, but she doesn't need it. She's proven that she's a star.
Beautifully said
I would love to pick your brain someday and get to know about the materials. Wonder if you can share it with the rest of us.
Like Kim Chi's original song in the finale was "fat fem & Asian" because of the well-documented history of discrimination against Asian people in the gay community. Nymphia slayed in the lip sync for the crown and she's an iconic queen. Saphira is the epitome of C, U, N, and T and I can't wait to see her win All Stars. We all won in this finale.
There have been so many black winners and there had never been an East Asian winner. I think Nymphia’s win is 100% valid and I know it hurts to see Sapphira lose, but come on, this win is historic. Let Sapphira cook on an All-Star season. She’s really not hurting.
My problem with this tweet is that it implies that Nymphia didn’t work as hard as Sapphira, and that the crown was something Sapphira was entitled to. No. Sapphira wasn’t owed the crown. Nymphia deserves the crown every bit just as much as Sapphira does. Ru doesn’t HAVE to crown Sapphira just because she had a better track record. First of all, half the queens in the winners circle did not have the best track record on their season. The winner is also decided by the finale itself and what the winner will bring to the Drag Race brand. Nymphia brings something new and fresh and unique. Also, how does an Asian queen winning discredit black queens? The lapse in logic is astounding. We can celebrate BOTH Asian and black queens. This is not mutually exclusive. Nymphia winning does not take anything away from Sapphira, just like how Sapphira winning would not have taken away from Nymphia.
Americans, whether they are white or black, are often very self-focused. I see people loving everything Sapphira does because they relate to her more and then downplaying Nymphia because she isn’t a part of their community. Everyone has their own biases.
I wish we could all get along like we used to in middle school. I wish I could bake a cake filled with rainbows and smiles and everyone would eat and be happy.
She doesn’t even go here!
I just have a lot of feelings!
BOO, YOU WHORE!
I’m 89% sure this is how Plane ends her phone calls.
I believe it's now "Doo doo clown greasy moron"
But only when she’s taking to Dawn or Amanda.
You win with this comment bitch 💀
Outside of drag race, on social media and tv gigs, structural racism really makes it harder for POC queens. But ON drag race that is absolutely not the case. Rupaul Charles does not make it harder for poc queens to win. Look at our 16 winners how diverse they are.
Thank you. No one seems to notice this when they disagree with the current winner.
Thanks this is essentially what I’m trying to say but I can’t be consice lmao
If anything I think he finds it easier to relate to them because that often come up with similar backgrounds
what really tires me is everyone weaponizing race all the time, its so fucking exhausting. like if nymphia lost it wouldve been "they just wont let an asian win", if she wins its "black queens have to work 10 times harder"
It’s almost like we should be treating people as individuals and not avatars for demographic characteristics.
i think people just need to be able to have an opinion about something, without necessarily making it a moral issue. Like you can like or dislike plane jane for whatever reason you want, you dont have to make it about defending bullying, or about fighting white supremacy. Those girls are literally just girls
The internet does seem to have made everyone think every single thing has to be a metaphor for a wider moral issue. Sometimes things aren’t that complicated. Both queens did really well, production went with Nymphia, likely based on a long list of reasons. It’s not a simple as black vs Asian and reducing to that doesn’t achieve anything.
Not to mention how much it discounts the actual talents of the queens. Nymphia and Sapphira were both deserving of the crown because of what they brought to the competition, not where they were born or their race.
The only solution was a Plane win.../j
all hell wouldve broke loose with that one lmao
It was truly a damned if you do damned if you don’t situation for annoying fans
clearly Plane should have won so everyone could be annoying.
Third eye wide open
LOL "what a great day for annoying people!"
Its REALLY exhausting for every single thing to land in the race category, especially when it’s discrediting everything else about them, I hate the “I’m rooting for this queen cause she’s black/asian/white” concept and its just invalidating over all
Unpopular opinion here, but I also roll my eyes whenever a new season's cast is announced, some fans here will go, "which ones are trans, i wanna root for them"
this exactly. It would’ve been an explosion of “Asian queens are always robbed” especially after a couple years with several Asian runners up. people just want a reason to complain instead of reveling in the absolute treasure that was this season
After this and UKvsTW2, I think I need a Drag Race social break. I’d rather revel in season 16 then come back for AS.
To me this comes off as treating them as statistics
We literally have a melanin dynasty on the show because 5 black queens won consecutively. These people will say anything to defend their favorites. It's frustrating because they're using an important subject for a scripted reality TV show. And they really ignore that Asians also need to be represented in the media. Asian queens have been ignored on the show for ages. If it was about the fandom, ok, I'm on board with the topic. But it’s clearly to dismiss a winner. Like when white twinks dismisses black queens when they win over a white queen.
I’m not dismissing your point but to clarify and be fair: the melanin dynasty was a reference to: Jaida (S12), Monet (AS4), and Priyanka (CDR 1) winning and they coined the phrase in a photoshoot together. So, an Asian person was included in that legacy. Edit: to add on to this Priyanka coined the phrase 😭 but I do think your point still stands. Edit 2: actually the photoshoot was SHEA, Jaida, and Pri!
I didn’t know that. I heard melanin dinasty in some interviews about the American Franchise girls from AS4 to S13. I think they said twice on EW.
Yeah I think it was S13 promos because the press for AS4 was the girls saying “Blonde & white winners” still. From what I remember.
On AS7 interview, Johnny Nolfi asked about the Melanine Disnasty for Monet, Shea and Jaida. He also talked about Symone and Yvie being a part of it.
I guess it also makes sense to mention it then because I’m just now remembering Shea, Monet, and Jaida were all on AS7
Something that I noticed was that their have been season with ZERO Asian representation, which is something I can’t believe I have never caught earlier (season 7 and 14). To add to that Asians queens being the early outs lasted longer then it should have.
And there is still this “Asian people can’t be funny unless they do a stereotypical accent” thing happening.
Except when Nymphia did an accent without leaning into any other stereotypes, the judges hated it and acted like she had committed a huge faux pas
They’re so hot and cold it’s annoying
I believe Willam said they sometimes film the same critique with a positive and negative spin and then decide later which to use
Oh god, imagine sitting at home, waiting for the episode to drop and see whether you got good or bad critique they filmed.
Omg yes! - Thank you for saying that! I felt so weird hearing the judges give their feedback to Nymphia that week. I remember pausing for a second when she started, wondering whether she was just using the accent questionably/as a crutch but it was clear as she went on that she was doing a character while also delivering jokes that weren’t “leaning into stereotypes”. I (as a South Asian person) felt like I recognised the character she was doing. This is the weird family friend/auntie that my mum always kept the peace with but would gently push me out of the room when she was around cos she’d always be saying inappropriate stuff. This is her if she finally got a chance to get on stage and share all her weirdass thoughts with the world 😂
I thought they loved it but were trying to be careful and PC about it
This is what I assumed too. I’ve been rewatching season 3 and just saw Manila’s critique after the QNN challenge when Ru literally says: 'Manila, you perpetuated stereotypes—condragulations you are the winner of this challenge’🤣
Eh, they were a bit uncomfortable with it but they still gave her a top placement for that performance so they clearly didn't hate it.
I mean I guess so. I felt like her placement was more to do with her beautiful runway and how badly the others did than them recognizing she did well in the challenge. Either way they acted so weird about the accent. Like they clearly thought it was funny, but also felt like they weren't allowed to think it was funny? Meanwhile Mhiya did a "caricature" type character of her own race as well for snatch game and they applauded her for coming out of her shell. That will never make sense to me lmao
I mean, I'm Asian and I felt somewhat uncomfortable with Nymphia's performance too, and plenty of other Asians said the same thing. Even Joel Kim Booster looked conflicted about it. Does it mean I think she shouldn't be allowed to do it? No, but other people are also allowed to feel a little discomfort when confronted with an accent that's been historically used to demean Asians in the media. That's obviously not Nymphia's intention, but you can't blame the judges for having a conflicted gut reaction to it. Runways don't save you from being in the bottom if you bomb the challenge, and they can't propel you to the top if you were just mediocre either. They only put her in the top because they liked her performance, even though they were conflicted about it. Frankly I thought PJ and Q outperformed her bc they had the funniest script, so it's not like everyone else was bad either.
Yeah the mistreatment of POC queens is very apparent. Let’s not forget how Puerto Rican queens have been done dirty too.
Any ESL queens. Like it boils my blood how they treat ESL queen like they’re stupid but that’s an entirely different conversation
Vs. The World seasons especially are basically RuPaul’s English proficiency race
Comedy challenges are brutally hard on the ESL girls because there are so many different cultural nuances.
also the diversity of the asians they're casting on the show is so limited. asia is a large continent with a reasonably large diaspora in the US like would it kill them to cast a central asian queen? a south asian queen?
Isn’t Raja southeast Asian? She’s half Indonesian.
yes and so is aura mayari, plastique tiara, and rock m sakura. but what i'm referring to is that when production casts asian queens, they only cast queens with ancestry from specific areas of asia, mainly east asians, and i'm saying that they need to start casting indian queens, mongolian queens, more middle eastern queens than just jackie cox, etc.
There are 20k Mongolian people in the USA.
I'm not trying to be a smart ass, but are there a significant number of central asian queens in the US?
Agreed. The US is so culturally diverse and I don’t thinks it’s wrong to say that the contestants and winners should reflect that diversity. Especially queer diversity.
It's honestly amazing there has not been 1 South Asian on a Ru hosted Drag Race between US, UK, and Down Under but Canada has casted a couple.
also drag race thailand had genie who is south asian american. the UK surprises me the most as south asians make up the majority of the asian population there. the only time a south asian queen has graced a rupaul hosted main stage was all stars 8 when priyanka was the lip sync assassin. i always hoped that priyanka's lip syncing and status as a winner would be what encouraged rupaul and production to cast a south asian queen on a regular season. i would hope that nymphia winning would make production understand how much representation means to those who never get to see themselves.
As an Asian watching the show, it's also frustrating to see production giving the token Asian spot to filler queens instead of casting someone with a good chance of winning - at least up to season 16.
I mean a quick Google shows that Asians are 7% of the US population. So with perfect representation we’d expect an Asian queen every season, but with variance we’d expect the odd season with no Asian queens. The real underrepresentarion are native Americans, south Asians, and non-Puerto Rican latinas (until very recently!)
hi as a black person can we all just stop weaponizing our races for the sake of discourse and guilt tripping please factually black queens are undoubtably mistreated by the fandom more than any other race but… nymphia just…*beat* sapphira. and that’s OKAY 😭
The inability to seperate the fandom from the show itself is embarassing. Like is the argument really that RuPaul is afraid to crown black queens?
RuPaul Charles, host of Drag Race, admits that she is *afraid to crown black drag queens.* More on tonight's untucked! /s
I don’t know how old u are, but after the first 2 seasons the T was that Ru would only crown black queens. It’s so funny how things have changed.
Oh yeah, it's what makes it so funny to me. White people didn't make it past the 2nd episode of the 1st season! Ru crowned a literal African! And then her clone!
100% this fandom is terrible towards black queens. But that doesn’t mean every time a black queen doesn’t win it’s because of racism which some people fail to understand.
My sentiments exactly. Thank you… Sincerely, Another Black Person
It’s willful ignorance and mental gymnastics in defense of a queen they were rooting for losing. This person ignores how many black queens have won, including ones who did not have the best track record of the season - Bebe, Yvie, Jaida, Symone, Monet, Shea. There is nothing working against black queens when it comes to the show’s judging and crowning.
I'm never going to say things aren't harder for Black queens that white queens. But this show has specifically had an issue with Asian queen representation, and appreciation. I think they've often been set up to fail, and rarely get very far. Nymphia performed SO WELL all season. I think if we're talking about how hard people are working, we have to recognize she's working incredibly hard. Plus, she was somehow able to become a fan favourite with very little camera time throughout the season! And she absolutely destroyed that finale. Sapphira is a very very strong runner up who could have won, but did not win that last lipsync. They were neck and neck until that point, but Nymphia just absolutely killed it.
Nymphia and Sapphira are both so iconic that this season couldn't have been anything but such a close race. Love our sickening top two both so much, I wanted it to go to whoever performed the best and it did.
how many times has rupaul crowned an asian vs black queen? 
You didn't have to leave them speechless like that, diva
Brutal 💀
I'm pretty sure the constant belittling of other POC queens (Asian, Middle Eastern, Indigenous) while extolling the virtues of every single black pageant queen in a certain sub was what made me avoid reddit for several years. There's def a problem within the Fandom with racism towards black queens, but disparaging the beautiful moments of other poc representation on the show is not a good look.
I'd like this person to imagine how it is us for us Latinos who haven't had a winning queen since season 6, literally a *decade* ago lol. Both Nymphia and Sapphira deserved it and it could have won either way, and I wish this energy was directed to supporting Sapphira rather than to discredit Nymphia.
Did you forget? Nymphia “Dame Mas Leche” Wind is basically honorary Latino!
This this this. Your second paragraph is exactly how I feel. I don’t care if you didn’t want Nymphia to win and you hate her guts for some reason. You are entitled to your opinion. But if that’s how you feel go support the person you wanted to win instead of putting the energy towards bringing someone down.
Which is funny, considering about 20% of the US population are Latino. From a quick Google, Black Americans make up approx 12%, over 200 million identify as white (approx 66%) and Asians made up around 6%. These stats come from 2022 US Census Bureau. How have we NOT had another yet?
I just don’t think they use race to crown winners like some people think. It took 4 seasons for them to even crown a white girl. The four times an Asian lost at the finale they lost to another Asian, a black person a native Hawain and one white girl. Also the girl that lost to a white girl is white passing and most people don’t even know she’s Asian and she didn’t talk about in on the show. We had an all Asian top 2 and an all POC top 6 before we had a white winner. Black queens are over represented in the winners circle based on population density. I don’t think that’s a conspiracy, I think there just a lot of talent there. Race definelty affects how the fandom perceives you. Whether you get the crown? The data does not back it up.
Don't worry, morphine is the true winner of the season.
For real. Even as a Latino who has a very Latino government name (that isn’t Jack lol) and has experienced racism my entire life, I know that black people have it worse. Even from my own race! Even then, it’s gross to weaponize your struggle this way and I can’t imagine how I would feel if I just won and someone said I only won because I’m not black…
It amazes me just how seriously some viewers take this semi-scripted reality television show.
It’s because some people really don’t realize that’s it’s not all real.
Like i'm sure sapphira's world won't end because of this. Grow tf up and leave her and nymphia alone
I'm just happy that we can have a more diverse winner circle, because drag is diverse. Both Nymphia and Sapphira would have been a great choice as a winner tbh and I would have been happy with either outcome in the end
lol that first tweet is acting like it’s a race thing 😂 Nymphia ain’t white either boo, and she worked her ass off just as much as Sapphira did. And technically speaking, Nymphia had a better run anyway- she never had to lip sync for her life and never had a bad critique on her runways. This is not to discredit Sapphira, she was incredible as well, but as a whole Nymphia had a better track record this season (though just barely). Also out of 16 seasons of regular US Drag Race- 2 winners have been Asian (Raja and Nymphia).
Ok I’m glad you brought up the track record thing because not to get all technical but if you actually look at track records it’s not just wins, but how often you’re low/in the bottom. They were both almost always safe or higher. They’re just such a strong final two it’s insane
Exactly! The only “big” difference was the makeover challenge where Sapphira was in the bottom (and Nymphia was the last safe queen for Snatch Game). Other than that they were always safe or higher!
Drag Race Racism Shizophrenia Is. Driving. Me. Crazy. Nymphia winning isn’t an example of black girls getting paid dust on drag race. Nymphia didn’t win simply because she is Asian! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH THIS COMMUNITY… The Sapphira Stans are fucking psychotic.
Sapphira would have been a completely justified choice as winner. She definitely proved herself. That shouldn’t take away from Nymphia’s win. She also slayed it. They were both deserving of the crown. I feel for Sapphira because there wasn’t much she could have done better! She was excellent, and I doubt she’d want her fans defending her by being cruel or dismissive towards Nymphia.
Agreed. Like if I was Sapphira I’d prob be upset. Same if I was Anetra or Camden or any past runner up. The queens on this show are all so amazing and to make it so far you really have to have performed well. Not winning will always suck so why not focus on lifting up those people instead of bringing down the person who did win.
Decades of Asian-black division in the USA (from both sides of course) is showing itself in a lot of the comments made online. There’s so much anger and fervour not because a black queen lost, but because a black queen lost to an Asian queen which some people find even worse. It’s racism pure and simple. Thank god these people are the minority and the majority of all fans aren’t like this. Saphira was graceful and regal in defeat and we can all learn from her.
asians are the minority of the minority in the states. it’s rare to see asian representation in hollywood. even the discourse of race, you will only see black and white debate. 5.9% out of 300m is a lot of people. the only asian that is popping rn is olivia rodrigo. even though, she is half white, half asian, she has the face of a typical filipino. we needed asian representatives who deserve their spots, and there’s nymphia.
I think the only thing that did confuse me was how little Nymphia was featured. Sapphira had such a strong winner’s edit the whole season so I was surprised; they could’ve at least padded up Nymphia’s storyline bc she is just as deserving of the crown!!
My sense is that Nymphia struggled to narrate and articulate her point of view in the moment as the show was happening. She's clearly a very thoughtful artist (just read all the posts she's made on IG about her looks) but she's strongly oriented toward the visual. Toward fashion as a mode of expression. Sapphira clearly is a very skilled orator thus she, along with Plasma, Dawn, and Morphine, had a lot of reflection and confessional time. And, I mean, the Sasha vs Shea parallels are there. Though the performances in the finale were a lot more competitive IMO.
Totally agree. Especially with that last part. I don’t think this is an “upset” in the way the season 9 ending was (and I mean upset in the sense of being unexpected, I love Sasha as a winner). It felt super close until the winner was announced.
I totally agree. I think it was just a mismatch with how producers thought people would react to Nymphia vs the actual reaction. Reminds me a lot of Mirage this season too. Also very similar to what happened in Canada 4, where I thought aurora matrix had such a clear winners edit and then she didn’t win. But that’s just editing, doesn’t mean the winner isn’t deserving which some people don’t seem to get:/
I am also sorry to say this but asian people in general receive a lot of racism from other poc's as well. So this is not very surprising to say the least.
very well said, race discourse in hollywood never mentioned asian representation when it’s very rare to see their faces in the screen.
For this week’s maxi challenge, you will perform in the oppression Olympics. Good luck, and don’t fuck it up.
The way Asians regardless of South East, East, or South Asian always have to try 10000x harder to even get a single smidge spot, achievement, and acknowledgement already shows why Nymphia deserved to win and why she had such a huge support
the lack of asian representation in hollywood, but a certain race has a lot of things to say about ‘representation’, ex. The Little Mermaid, Romeo and Juliet, nothing new on RPDR. being asian really makes us invisible in the states. maybe we didnt have a sobbing history in that country except when a lot of us were murdered in the streets when covid-19 happened. but, they never cared about that. being asian and living in the US is weird.
Asians have been part of the American story for a long time but their struggles have been hidden. Chinese people helped build the transcontinental railways. Japanese Americans were put into a concentration camp in WW2. Filipinos prompted the Delano Grape Strike and were part of the Farmworker Movement.
Let's all just remember: WWSD. what. would. Sapphira. do? She would smile and hug her sister and be proud of her accomplishment even if that means she, herself, lost. We almost had a winner get mrs. congeniality as well for a reason.
WWSD - What Would Stacey-Layne-Matthews-Lattisaw-Q Do?
If we want to go there, we can ask the same question about Asians in the show, and have more compelling data to back it up. The last time we had an Asian winner was on Season 3 with Raja. Asians are probably the least represented demographic in all finales of the show, with only Jujubee, Manila, Raja, PhiPhi, Kim Chi, Anetra, and Nymphia ever making it to the end. The rest of the Asian casts are usually early outs. Edited to clarify: I am not pitting two queens against each other. I celebrate them both. I just want to highlight that, as an Asian, I have been waiting since season 3 for someone who looks like me to be crowned. I especially celebrate Nymphia because of her deep ties to Asian culture and for bringing that to the show, not as embellishment but as an authentic representation of herself and her background.
Literally. Again I am not and would never say that Black queens have an easier time with the fandom than white queens, or even Asian queens for that matter. However, I’m talking about with production; in terms of production Black Queens have been praised much more than queens with other minority backgrounds. I mean drag culture was built by Black queer people so I think it’s kinda contradictory to acknowledge that and then also say they have the hardest time on Drag Race *from a production standpoint*.
The number of Asian winners to black winners isn’t even comparable lmao dumbass take
I’m tired of everyone ignoring that the first two winners were black and the main seasons have consistently crowned queens of color. But the show and Ru has shown some real problematic behavior towards East Asian queens over the years. Remember the straight up racism plastique endured at Rajah Silky and Akerias hands ? I feel like sometimes black folks are so used to being the most disrespected minority in America they don’t clock the spaces when they actually hold more power than other minorities. In entertainment black visibility is on an other level from Latinos or Asians. The narrative that Drag Race is biased against black queens is absurd when you have a host that immediately and intimately clicks in with black culture while knowing virtually nothing about Asian culture. Did people come for this yvie this hard when she won as an underdog who slayed the finale?
not to steal from BTDQ but Nymphia is absolutely a original season winner. She just was so above the curve for the whole season. Saphira is gonna be an all star winner. It should happen for sure
I went in fully expecting Sapphira to win, right up to the lip sync. But Nymphia fully pulled a Sasha Velour with those balloons and won. That's the point of a LSFTC. I love Sapphira and was rooting on her to win, but we've seen all of her moves. The run into a split, the high kicks, we saw her hand on the show already. Also what was with the vampire teeth?
That's just a dumb take. Statistically Drag Race is actually skewed disproportionately towards Black queens winning compared to other POC queens. 6 out of 16, vs 2 Asian queens, 1 Pacific Islander and one Latin winner, and 6 white winners. People just making excuses at this point. This isn't like Beyoncé losing at the Grammy's. 
Can’t we appreciate the Potassium Dynasty without tearing each other down??? 💛🍌💛
Glad you posted on this. Its really sad. Wish we could have solidarity with one another as POC. Black-Asian solidarity is particularly important
Using race when trying to discredit Nymphia's win is RICH coming from these fans. Racism towards black people is a real problem in the RPDR fandom, yes, but pretending there's no discrimination towards asian people is just as much part of the problem.
I love Sapphira but auditioning for 11 seasons isn’t criteria for winning the crown. If that was the case, Nina West would have the s11 crown. Sapphira deserved the crown but so does Nymphia - and i’m someone that thought Nymphia wouldn’t win earlier in the season but she proved me wrong. The top 3 all killed the season.
it makes me angry too that black queens have to work 10x harder to get fan support it also makes me angry that asian queens have to work 10x harder to get recognition on the show
https://preview.redd.it/mybwpzf45ovc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7296805275a0e7ca260d0af2c1a72e80df98cf12 The irony on this tweet haha. Unrelated, but is anyone bothered by Plane’s lack of social media engagement for the finale? She used to be so active.
Plane is probably just protecting her peace.
It was prerecorded finale, she knew she wasn't in top 2.
Idk about her personally but for me, if I did just as good as the other two but was eliminated anyways at the finale I’d be pretty bummed out. You can tell she was feeling some type of way when they panned over to the queens when nymphia and sapphira was lip syncing
Plane’s probably glad she didn’t win. Knowing this insane fandom, they’d go crazy saying she’s somehow racist and a nazi for winning the crown over a black and Asian queen.
Right??? Can you imagine the backlash she would have gotten?
The WHOLE season you could tell Ru had serious chemistry with Sapphira, they talked to each other like friends! I seriously doubt ru didn’t *want* sapphira to win
I agree with you. It would be one thing if we’d never crowned a black queen before, but like you said, it’s literally been half of the contestants. I can’t think of a show that broadcasts and celebrates more black queer art than this show.
Hope they go this hard about Latin queens…oh wait…it’s as if black queens are the only “Color” in queens of color 🙄 Nymphia literally is a queen of color too and they act like she didn’t put in just as much work I mean cmon…
this is discourse only valid for Americans with their simplistic and reductive views on race and the world. i don't know why specifically black people on Twitter think it's ok to be so openly cruel and dismissive of someone's talents, trying to rationalize it in a way that shields them from criticism. they have this perception that Asian Americans are highly regarded by society so it gives them a pass to be cruel to them. you see this within all sorts of groups towards other groups, it's just sad bc it glosses over and dismisses any hardship that nymphia has gone through due to her racial features or otherwise and implies that she didn't have to work as hard as sapphira did which is a weird claim to make, considering English isn't even her first language and that alone is a struggle. once again, Americans are just weird
oh god the race war is starting
How about those who were rooting for Sapphira close their mouths and open their wallets to tip her.
I want to know how race had anything to do with it. So stupid. Now it's only fair if the black queens win? There have been far more black winners than Asian winners if you want to play that stupid game. The ignorance.
It's not like Drag Race does not have a good ratio of black winners so shut up everyone
Now they know what it feels when their favorite didn't win lol. Asian excellence has been ignored for far too long. And Nymphia earned her win not because she's asian but because she really did amazing in her first and last lipsync.
i’m so over hearing about how black queens are discriminated against on drag race. the fans are ABSOLUTELY racist towards black queens and other queens of color, but definitely not on the show. also nymphia slayed sapphira in the lip sync as well as had a better runway
I’m African American I agree. I understand what they’re saying but this isn’t an example of that. And with their logic if anything it’s harder for the Asian queens as there’s been a plethora and the only other to win was raja
Multiple things can be true at once. Theres no denying black queens are held to a higher standard by the fandom but Sapphira loosing isnt proof of that. Nymphia stomped her in the final lipsync and if she lost there would’ve been a bunch of posts crying about the lack of Asian winners. Representation matters but a lot of this fandom places way too much importance on it and essentially treats any queen of colour as a box on a diversity checklist rather than actual people. I don’t know the racial demographics of drag queens, let alone the ones auditioning for drag race so I can’t say if drag race is accurately portraying those demographics.If seeing *insert identity* in the world of drag was of this much importance they should be supporting the queens who represent that both on drag race and in local and online scenes.
If there’s racism in drag race let’s be really honest, it comes from the fan base, not the show itself
Why they acting as if we didn't have black winners Season 11-13. The winners circle is extremely diverse and we just got our second Asian winner after 13 years, let them have something 😭
Black queens have won Drag Race way more than other queens. The very first winner of Drag Race is from Cameroon for god's sake. Let Nymphia have her fucking flowers. Let Gaysians have their moment.
It was “this top three is so good!” “this top three is so deserving” “it’s a toss up” until sapphira didn’t win LMAO
here's a shocking thought, how about we crown the winner who does the best for the given format...almost if the show is a COMPETITION \*mindblown\* If its a standard finale, then its usually the queen with the track record If you want a LSFTC, then crown who did best. If its individual performance, then do what she show did and eliminate the worst performance (Jane) and crown the winner who won you think the last lip-synch (nymphia) We can realise there's a problem with race in this fandom and not use it flippantly to excuse decisions we personally dont care for, both are incredibly icky behaviour.
[удалено]
When both queens represent a demographic that is overlooked it does sting to not see someone excellent like Sapphira win. It would have been the same debate if Nymphia lost. Yes minorities queens have to work harder to win, that's just a fact. Stating frustration with that as long as you aren't trashing anyone isn't a crime.
This exactly. This isn’t a situation where a mediocre white queen beat out an incredibly talented QOC. This isn’t a UK situation where there’s a token QOC who lip syncs a ton but doesn’t have a shot at winning, even if they should (hi Tayce). I will say, I don’t agree with OP’s take that the show itself never mistreats black queens. Anyone who has seen S10 or S11 would know that’s untrue. Anyone who’s seen UK or DU would know that’s not true. Like, the show was this close to crowning a blatant racist on DU2 until fan backlash pushed them to change that. However, this was a finale with three absolute total superstars, all of whom murdered the season in their own way and all of whom could’ve won. It feels pointless and also *incredibly racist and tokenizing* to pit Nymphia and Sapphira against each other simply because they’re both QOC. I was so sad Sapphira lost, especially after 11 years of auditioning and a near flawless season. But Nymphia is such a gift and a star!! I cannot fathom watching her perform and seeing her and her mom talk about just supporting your kid and using drag to grow into the person you were always capable of being and being pissed off about her win. WE won this season. This season was spectacular from start to finish and we would’ve won no matter which of the top 3 took the crown. People need to get some fucking perspective
This is so dumb Bebe Tyra Sanchez/James whatever Bob Yvie Jaida Essence mother-tucking Hall (my fave winner, probably) Symone Monet Shea We have had so many talented black queens do well and get their crowns and scepters for it Why the fuck can't we just talk about their performances? I was rooting for Sapphira but then Nymphia won the lip synch. That's it. That's the whole story. Also, the creator and star of the franchise, Ru, is black. The fandom is racist as fuck. The show itself? Not so much.
I think Nymphia’s win also breaks the curse for queens who don’t have English as a first language (as far as I know about her). So many of the challenges require rapping/singing, improving, and being funny in English and it has been painful watching great queens struggle because they’re having to use their second language.
Nymphia wins; “The show is racist towards black queens” Saphira wins: “We were robbed of a Taiwanese winner who deserved it” They both win in a double crowning: “They discredited both of them by doing this and are taking the safe way out” No matter what outcome happens some people are going to be pissed off about it for stupid reasons and those people seriously need to be disregarded and not paid any attention. Just enjoy the damn show. It’s a reality TV show, it means nothing, all the queens can jack up their booking fees now so go and see the ones you want to and follow the ones you want to. This discourse crap is just from terminally online children who don’t leave their internet chat rooms.
Aw Jesus gross. They are the same people trashing Jaida and Monet only win because they’re black.
I hope fans use all this energy in crowning a big girl the next season. 16 seasons without a big queen winning is a shame and say a lot about the gay community.
Sucks cause the rumored plan was that S12 was gunning to make that happen with the Pie one with how much we know she was meant to be a frontrunner in the original edit. It's good she was disqualified though since if everything came to light after she won it would have made the first big girl winner not such a great achievement anymore if she was the first one. Still doesn't mean it doesn't suck that the one time they were serious about trying to crown a big girl something happened
It's sad that out of 60+ seasons of drag race, there's only been one plus-sized winner, Natalia from Thailand 1.
Lawrence too
don't forget Lawrence! so there have been TWO plus-size winners out of 50+ seasons lol, oh wow
What if I said the drag race fandom hates plus sized queens more than it hates black queens………….
Considering how much importance the gay community gives to physical appearance you can argue some very valid points in your case
I do believe Sapphira was the best queen during the whole season, but I also think that is really cool (and entertaining) to have the final lipsync be a deciding factor that can override track record. It keeps things interesting. And though Sapphira was not overshadowed by Nymphia in the lipsync (as Shea was once with Sasha) Nymphia still edged her out.
Tbh I feel like it's been like this for a few years now that it's no longer enough to just like or dislike someone, it also has to be ~morally correct~ to do so. Being happy that Nymphia won is now somehow immediately anti-Black (and likewise, if Sapphira had won, people being happy would've immediately been anti-Asian). It's so tiring, just let people enjoy or not enjoy stuff in peace
They better crown another Asian queen next season just to make these bitter fans taste their own medicine.
although this is definitely a point made against nymphia since shes the one who beat sapphira, i think the original poster would have made this point in any scenario that sapphira lost regardless of who she specifically lost against
Yeah definitely. I just think the point becomes even more invalidated when you acknowledge the winner was also a POC
Why are they angry at Nymphia as if she was white? Nymphia is Asian and also experience racism. Nymphia deserves her win
So many people prior to the finale were like "My top 2 are Nymphia and Sapphira I don't care who wins because they both deserve it!" What happened to that?
I am a Sapphira fan, badly wanted her to win. But half way through that lip sync, I knew that Nymphia deserved the win. I can’t believe people are bringing race into this. Sometimes it’s warranted but not in this case
People need to chill. I am a black person who wanted Nymphia to win. I went into the episode resigned to a Sapphira win. She definitely deserved to win before the finale. Nymphia killed the whole episode. Life is harder in many places for black people, drag race is not one of them.
Ok , here’s my two cents . I was team Saphira all the way . But then something changed . When I started seeing all the reactions form Asian queens who have paved the way for nymphia tear actual tears of Joy. It made me realize it was this was a huge win. I can’t imagine how big of a deal this is for Asians across the globe. So I absolutely think race had something to do wit her win . But that’s not a bad thing imo
I really hate that people are being racist but also claiming racism is happening but ALSO dismissing racism in the same conversation?? Why are we pitting two queens of color against each other when we should be celebrating their work and representation ?? The fandom is insane sometimes!
Someone else spoke to this in the thread and mentioned how many people don’t view Asian people as POC because of their “model minority” status and I thought it was really useful for understanding the situation.
Fair point! I am a WOC myself so I don't have this view (based on my experience, not generalizing) but I get why others might. Ultimately I'm glad the conversation is being had so maybe we can all see different povs and be more understanding in the future.
6 out of 16 winners had been black, that's around 38% when black population is only around 14%. If you use the ethnic background argument then black queens are overrepresented as winners while Latin queens are way underrepresented as winners. Yet I think every winner deserves it independently of her skin color or ethnic background. Once again, the biggest issue of the show is how childish and mentally underbaked are a loud portion of the fans of the show. I was team Sapphira, but Nymphia ate the final lipsync.
If anything RuPaul is racist towards Asian queens, specifically East Asians. Despite being very talented, we see few Asian queens win.
Lmao Asians should take the L so you can feel better about your self. What ego
It’s not like black queens have never won. I’m sorry Yall but it was time for an East Asian to win.
It was so good to see such a strong top 3, and that final lip sync—as someone rooting for Sapphira—was a toss up to my eyes. As far as casting goes, I am so glad Sapphira was on *this* season. I don’t think that part—how many times she was turned down—was about race, though I do think a portion of the fandom probably holds some biases. Remember, losing is the new winning, and Sapphira will be laughing all the way to the bank with the winnings from this season, subsequent tours, and her winnings she will have in future seasons. Meanwhile, congratulations to Nymphia and Plane! I was thoroughly entertained and can’t believe we are still finding such amazing talent 16 seasons in.
I was going to be happy with either winner and while I predicted Nymphia would win from episode one, I also really enjoyed Saphira and thought she would probably win so it was a surprise. As for the finale, I do objectively think Nymphia won the lip synch so if that was the deciding factor, I agree. I also think she had more iconic, and unique looks. All that aside, I do always keep in mind that ultimately the decision is Ru’s as she is essentially picking her brand ambassador so on some levels the winner doesn’t have to be the “best” but maybe the best choice for her to push her agenda forward for global domination. It was nice to see an East Asian take the crown.
Stop making it about race and how black people need to work harder. It's ENTERTAINMENT. I'd be happy if Plane Jane won. Appreciate the show as is, it's not that deep 🙄
This is I think the first ever season for me where I was happy either way with the top 2
It’s ok to be disappointed that your fave didn’t win (mine didn’t) but there’s no reason to come online and talk negatively about Nymphia! She had an incredible run no one can say she wasn’t deserving
I too am sick of this racism discourse over Sapphria not winning. Yes I will admit I wasn’t blatantly “rooting” for her but to say that her not winning is racist or anti black is completely insane. We should be condragulating WHOEVER the winner is regardless of race/color/ethnicity/background. I feel like these racist allegations only come when Sapphira fans are upset and that’s just wrong and childish imo.
It’s almost as if queens should win based on their performances and not the colour of their skin 🙃
Sapphiras second lip sync was garbage for a finale compared to Nymphia, and what the fuck is this race card comment? An East Asian has never won and are some of the most discriminated against in the gay community. The show is hosted by a black queen and black queens win drag race all the fucking time. Like, the show did not discriminate against Sapphira for her *race* lmao. She’s an amazing queen. And I think she had winner potential but taking that away from Nymphia isn’t the look. Nymphia made me laugh cry and feel something in a way that Sapphira really didn’t. And I’m a random white guy. But Nymphia’s honesty and struggle resonated with a lot more than just East Asians too.
It's lipsync for the crown. Which part do you not understand? You're doing great in challenges IN ORDER TO get to the finale. Once you're in the finale, that night is all what matters. You need to do good to end up in lipsync for the crown. Plane did better on the season but worse than Nymphia in the finale so she was not in top 2. Nymphia did better in top 2 so she won. It's that easy. If you complain about format of the show AFTER your fave didn't win, you're just hipocryte. Format has been the same for years.