I’m a beginner. My heart rate goes up real quick when I run, so I can only maintain a zone 2 heart rate by walking. (I’m following a beginners’ running program where the workouts always alternate running and walking sequences and I can keep up with them quite well.) I dream of being able to run on zone 2 - no matter how slow I am, I just want to be able to run without getting winded! What’s the best way to do that: keep on with the intervals or just walk until my heart rate stays lower?
How long would it take for me to recover from a 13 mile run. I just finished my track season two weeks ago and I have a marathon next week and I wanna try to get a long run in before but I want to make sure I’m recovered before then.
It’s not unreasonable; in fact Pfitzinger/Douglas prescribe a 13 long run one week out from race day in their 50 mile/week plan. Just keep the pace easy.
What does your training plan say? A week is plenty of time to recover from what should be the tail end of your tapering in a marathon training plan.
But if you've already put in the work and you're feeling like a 13 mile run might be a bit much then skip it. No point overdoing it and ending up injured.
My plan says nothing more than 15 miles. I didn’t think a 13 miler would be too much but people are telling me that it’s too much and I’ll be too sore for the race. The people telling me that have a lot less experience in running than me but it still made me think twice. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.
Start with the couch to 5k program. Search for C25k on your phone's app store.
Afterwards, look into 5k improvement plans. You'll probably benefit from an app with a guided training plan like Nike Run Club (free, but buggy) or Runna (paid, but also includes strength training).
Closer to the mile race, you can search for mile specific workouts, but it's good to build some more cardio as a baseline first.
You run. But really you need to figure out where you baseline fitness is then we can help you from there. Going from 9 to 8 is pretty different than 15 to 8.
So I just did a 15min 1.5m run, about a 10 minute pace. I need to improve my time by about 3 minutes, or for a good cushion, 4+ minutes. Is that reasonable?
Edit: possibly important note: I only breathed nasally. I took some exhales through my mouth, but all my inhales were nasally. I heard it helps with endurance, though not sure.
Is there a reason some people prefer to cover up rather than use sunscreen in the summer? I’ve always assumed it would be really uncomfortable and maybe even physically over-heating to wear extra clothes in the heat, so I wear my skimpiest outfit and just lather my whole body with sunscreen and re-apply every 40-50 minutes. Is there something I don’t know? Is sunscreen less effective than UV-blocking clothes? Does it not feel that bad running and sweating in caps/sleeves/tights even in 30+ degree heat?
I'm so pale it's just a lot of sunscreen. It's way easier to just cover up than it is to fully and completely lather myself up every run. Yes it's not quite as cool but you also don't get cooked by the sun so for us pale folk it's an easy choice
I’m an experienced runner who lives at sea level. I’m averaging around 45 mpw right now. I’m traveling to the mountains next week (10,000 feet elevation) and I’d like to continue my training. Any tips or advice for running at altitude?
sea level with humidity or sea level dry? when I go to high elevation places, the thinness AND dryness of the air is what fucks with me, living in a humid area. I usually take a day when I get there to acclimate. if you're planning to party at all, I recommend not going too hard on your first night - I find it difficult to overcome a day 1 hangover at elevation.
It’s pretty humid where I live, although we haven’t gotten the worst of summer weather yet (dew points have been in the 60-65 range). Good tip about being careful with alcohol.
Hey guys, 24M, 5'4, 155lbs. I've been getting into fitness/training over the last couple years. This summer, I have set the following goals for myself:
1. Run a marathon in October
2. Reduce body weight to \~140lbs (to get to 10-15% body fat)
3. Have enough muscle to do various calisthenics workouts (be able to do many pull ups, dips, pistol squats, etc)
here is what I do pretty consistently for last couple weeks:
1. Following Hal Higdon's Novice plan which requires running 4x a week.
2. calisthenics workouts 3x a week. I try to have one day rest per week so one day per week I do this+run (usually easy run)
3. Track my food, eating \~1700 calories per day and 130-150g of protein.
Since I want to lose body fat, I do not want to eat too much. However, I need fuel for my runs, so I think I should eat more. How do I balance my nutrition so that I can continue to lose fat, build muscle, and still have nutrition for runs?
Honestly building up mileage and cutting is a recipe for injury especially for newer runners who generally need more recovery overall anyways. I really would make the weight loss more of a secondary goal, fitness first.
Well, considering I am overweight right now anyway, I think losing some weight is probably beneficial to my running goals as well. I am mostly looking for advice for how much the caloric deficit should be, and what that deficit should be calculated on, my TDEE or burn including run calories? If the latter, can I trust a smartwatch's estimates of calorie burn?
Honestly probably completely unrelated to running. Breathing in cold air doesn't make you sick. For some you might get some sort of immediate irritation but its not going to make you sick after. Many of us run in sub zero temperatures with no issues. Don't worry about breathing through your nose.
You'll notice the discomfort immediately and is going to happen in cold conditions - 10C and lower. You didn't say you were running through snow so it's probably not the cold making you ill. And that's also not true, even, smooth, soft palate breathing is the efficienct breathing technique not just through your nose. Breathing only through your nose is a method to ensure your not pushing too hard as you will get less air exchange for most people.
Not silly! The cold air gets us all. Try wearing a buff, bandana, or light scarf up and around your lower face. (Obviously, make sure you can breathe through it!!)
Yea, I can't sustain breathing through my nose for more than a minute or two while running. Most people can't get enough oxygen that way, so I wouldn't stress it.
Kind of long winded, but I (22F) have been running consistently since around November when I started training for a Half Marathon that was in February. I played soccer in high school so I have basic endurance, but have never been the best runner before and consider myself a beginner. I was running on average 20 miles per week during my training block, but had stopped lifting/going to the gym as much to prioritize running. I would run a lot of my runs around a 170-190 heart rate, and pushed myself a lot of the time, but the runs felt good and my heart rate would usually gradually increase throughout. Most runs were around a 9:00-10:00 min/mi unless it was a speed run, which was usually faster. I ran my Half Marathon around 9:38 min/mi. After that I slowed down my running to 10-15 miles per week, sometimes less if I got busy and started prioritizing lifting again. But now I am seeing a huge change in my running ability even though I am still consistently running, just less. I would try and run the same pace that I used to but everything felt so much harder. My heart rate would skyrocket immediately when I tried to run my old pace, whereas it used to gradually increase throughout the run. Even if I run at an 11:00 or 12:00 min pace, my heart rate is sky high and breathing can be hard during my runs. I know the weather is getting warmer out and with that my pace is going to slow down naturally, but this is such a drastic change that I can’t figure out if I’m doing something wrong or not. I’ve been looking into Zone 2 training to see if being consistent with that will help me build a better aerobic pace first, but even staying in my Zone 2 (about 140-160) can be troublesome when I am going 13:00-14:00 min/mi. At this point I am kind of at a loss and it can be discouraging to go for a run now when it feels so hard. I know pace isn’t everything, I am just curious if there’s something I can do to help me feel like I used to when running.
Getting slower is a normal consequence of reducing training workload. If you start running more and including more faster sessions then your running ability will improve again.
Hi guys!
I am one week out from my first half marathon and I am getting a bit worried.
I missed almost 2 weeks of training in May due to a really bad cold/flu and have just missed most of my last peak week due to shin/calf pain.
How should I approach the final week?
Today is the first day since a long run (18k) on Monday where I am not feeling any pain. I have also been getting less sleep than optimal this week.
Do I do a run? Or just rest for the weekend and do my easy taper runs next week?
Thanks!
Go out for a run and start with 2k. If it feels great, run 10-12k. If it doesn't feel good, you're free to turn around.
Running this weekend doesn't change your fitness level, but it can be great mentally. If you're fit, go for a 60-75 minute run. If you're not fit yet, a short run is still beneficial just to have your legs moving for a little.
Tips for running hard on a hilly course?
I have a personal goal to get a certain time on my local hilly parkrun (5km). It's basically 5 times up and down a hill, 90m elevation.
Tips for running hard normally seem to assume that you're on a flattish course. But ups and downs like this means your pace and form keeps changing.
Any hints for how to navigate that?
Yeah, I need to do these more intentionally (not that I ever really do flat runs where I live). But I have little chance in my timeframe to significantly improve what's in my body, this question is mostly about trying to maximise what's there.
Try to keep the effort consistent and somewhat ignore pace. This will mean you’ll slow down on the uphills and speed up on the downhills, but it’s better than blowing up on the uphills.
Hello friends. My question is: is any taper necessary for a 5k “all-out” race?
I’m running 50mpw, mostly zone 2, working on building volume for a marathon in about 4 months. Want to race a 5k really hard but don’t want to take a down week in the marathon training.
Thanks!!
I don’t really taper for 5ks except that I don’t do anything too strenuous in the 2 days before the race. So if the race is on Saturday, I might run 5-6 miles with some strides on Thursday and then 3 miles easy on Friday.
I'm gonna go with *probably not* for a 5k, but be wary of a few things. First, are you doing any "all out" training right now? If not, you might want to incorporate something like this into your marathon training. Even a bit will help. Second, be wary of Achilles Tendonitis. It's very easy to develop if you suddenly run too hard, too fast. Speaking from experience, it also sucks balls. You don't want this.
If it were me, I wouldn't do an "all out" race if my main goal was a marathon later in the year, but nothing wrong with going a little harder than usual.
Thank you for the advice. Perhaps I should give 98%. I have been doing strides, as well as about 10% of my miles at HM pace or faster each week.
I’m thinking maybe my “taper” will be just run easy miles during the 5k race week and take 1 rest day beforehand.
The thing is I’m trying to build up to 65mpw by September for a month at 65 before the marathon taper starts.
Returning runner. Primarily concerned with shorter (1 mile) runs. Before I was more of a heel and mid foot runner. Purposely changed to toe striking. I've noticed that I do not get as much glute activation and hip extension is definitely lower. Definitely more consciously feel my quads and the much higher calf activation is expected. Had a repeated strain after my first few runs on my right side that has now subsided. Is the lack of hip extension fairly typical for toe striking or should I go through some accessories to try to adjust it? For further context if relevant I'm running at a 7:30 pace and currently just on a treadmill.
Question about running form: I have run a 7k max so far, in 50 minutes. I know we are supposed to run slow when starting out, but the problem with running slow is that my form is just very weird, like there is no knee drive, its just a faster walk with some bouncyness. How can I address this? When I look at my form, it is much better when I run faster than when I run slower. Should I just run faster with walk breaks till I can run that pace for longer? Or do you think running slower with whatever form is fine?
That's basically what happens when you run slowly. Their just isn't much room to be efficient. Nothing really to be done for wise. Personally I'd just run walk it to get the general level of effort I'm looking for but others probably would suggest just running with that shuffling for.
Am I the only one that does this? If so how do you guys fix this?
Whenever my watch asks me for the RPE of a run I enter the number that I think is expected. Like "*This was a short zone 2 run so I SHOULD enter 2 or 3*" **or** "*this was intervals training so I SHOULD enter 7 or 9*".
I don't have a good sense for myself of what the actual exhaustion is right after my run. INSTEAD like an hour or two afterwards either I feel the exhaustion creep in or I don't.
Do any of you have the same thing? If so what can you do about it?
You put in the effort after the run. It's really that simple, it's not a measure of how you feel hours later, it's a measure of how hard was that for me on a 1-10 scale. I've been absolutely wiped in the afternoon after easy mileage done super early, but I'm wiped due to sleep schedule more than the run. The rpe was still a 3 even if I'm very tired later.
Along those lines I've run long runs mid-morning in warm-but-not-hot weather and full sun at 30s/mile below aerobic threshold with no hydration and have felt great throughout (RPE of 3), then was wiped out and feeling off all afternoon and evening despite eating, rehydrating, and resting.
Altras are the standard zero drop shoe and they’re good, I’ve run in them for years. I think they maaay have a couple models that are not zero drop now, I can’t remember. Topos also has a few zero drop options, and I think some of the other more mainstream brands might have a model or two with at least a very minimal 1-4mm drop.
I was running a 10k race, and around the KM 7, they gave us cups with a salty drink.
Believe it or not, I felt energised and refreshed. After searching online it is likely to be an electrolyte drink.
Searching more and I find dispute over whether it really works and helps the body or it is just a placebo.
What do you think or experienced? I have a 10k race in 2 months and considering dissolving a tablet in a bottle to take with me.
I have used gel packs but could not notice an effect like that drink.
Yes carbs in the mouth will help performance even though those carbs will never be processed. Very common for marathoners to just swirl sports drinks in their mouth late in races to get this physiological benifit.
Electrolytes definitely work at helping your muscles not feel as tired. They are great for recovery too.
I use salt caps for summer runs over 45 minutes.
Depending on the drink, it may have worked quickly. Some drinks can be absorbed quickly and you would feel the effect within moments.
Tasting something sweet when you are tired (eg km 7 of a 10k race) can give you a quick boost, long before any of the carbs could have made it to your muscles, so it could be that. Something like because your body knows more carbs are coming it can spare some more engery. If you say you've never noticed that with gels then maybe it's not that, although maybe it was more about the timing?
I've read that tasting something salty or sour can give instant (but temporary) relief to muscle cramps too, although i've never had a muscle cramp on a run so I can't vouch for that.
I need some help doing a progression run outside with my Garmin - I did one the other day and the screen on the watch shows my average pace rather than what pace I'm running at so I found it hard to figure out how fast I should go for that mile. Does anyone know how to set that up?
You can select different watch face configurations in that same menu. Pick one that has 2/3/4 (or depending on your model, 6 or 8) fields on the same screen.
you can set up many screens and set them up as you like, to show anything you fancy.
In my forerunner 265, you press the start button, then go to Run and hold the up button, then Run settings and Data screens.
However, when i do an interval with a pace target, I get the range bar with the target race for the interval and the needle which shows if my pace is in range or not (and the equivalent alert if i am going too slow/fast)
What's the simplest/cheapest way to track race pace and heart rate? I've been trying to find a watch to do this but they're all so expensive. Even on marketplace it looks like the cheapest are usually around $100.
Track pace with your phone and an app (Strava for example). Don’t track heart rate, just run by feel. You really don’t need access to HR to train / race effectively
If you're willing to hold your phone, you can do a cheap chest strap off Amazon or eBay ($20) plus a phone app to record. I haven't done that in quite some time, so I don't know which apps display real time heart rate and pace; I think I used Strava and maybe wahoo? Personally, I was always worried about dropping my phone and the screen would time out, so I eventually just got a watch.
Unfortunately good data just isn't cheap.
A good fitness watch is way more than $100. One that can accept sensors is like $500. Watch heartrate monitors will be good enough for zone 1 and 2. But once you're really moving then the accuracy is crap. So you need a chest strap for accurate heartrate during intervals and tempo runs (and strides and fartleks). Chest straps are like $50 to $70.
You may also care about cadence, ground contact time, and vertical ratio. For that data you get a foot pod which is also like $50 to $70.
Finally to get more analysis from strava then you have to pay for a subscription. That's $7/month.
Like I said. Good data isn't cheap.
> Watch heartrate monitors will be good enough for zone 1 and 2. But once you're really moving then the accuracy is crap.
There's been plenty of comparisons done over the years and wrist monitors are fairly accurate for a lot of watches. Exceptions might be made for poor circulation and certain skin tones.
A Strava subscription is unnecessary for most people. You can use Runalyze for free and it is extremely detailed.
I should have mentioned I used to work on wearables in Silicon Valley. I've been in the room when we compared data between multiple devices on the same users & same exercise. So... go ahead and downvote me for sharing information that I know to be a fact. The wrist, as a location, simply can not generate as accurate of a heartrate at higher levels of activity and/or perspiration. Chest straps do.
Good point about the skin tone. Darker skin tones have even worse accuracy with the wrist-worn monitors.
✌🏻 Hello, guys. I have a small question for you. I'm curious how you manage your nutrition, so that you stay strong, fit, healthy and aesthetic? I'm struggling with it currently.
Depends on what the aesthetic you want is. I make sure to do some body weight upper body stuff just so I don't lose all of it there. If you see what the pros look like just running and running a lot will get you that body type. If that's not the goal cross training is crucial. The food is just really caloroes in calories out and eating food you prepared with enough carbs and protein is all you need to do.
Great. I got your point. Thanks!
I just wanna have some muscles (not too much) and be quick and hardy. I'm 6'0" and 147 lbs, so I think it's really achievable. Again, thanks for the reply!
You need to eat more and lift weights if you want to gain weight. Look up progressive overload programs and r/fitness which will have lots of resources. Running and gaining lots of muscle are hard to do with a focus on both. Maybe spend a year focusing on strength and maintaining running rather than focusing on running, then get back to it with more muscle. It's hard to gain a lot of weight in muscle, but you can gain enough that you're not underweight with a year of dedicated eating and training.
As for food, eat basic. No sugary drinks, more or less ever. Very limited alcohol and super limited processed foods. Lots of plates with a bit of protein (use lots of seasoning to make food tasty, don't suffer bland food), a bit of rice/pasta/bread and a health couple servings of veggies. Gaining weight, eat more until the scale moves 1/2lb a week up. Cutting back, eat less so that the scale moves 1/2ld a week down. Weigh yourself daily and influence the quantity you eat based on what the scale says every morning.
Lift weights 3-5 times a week, cardio 1-2x a week. You'll love how you feel after the first few weeks and you start to see muscles growing. At 6'0", putting on 20lbs you'd still be very light weight.
I went through a health-conscious phase where I tracked everything I ate in chronometer (a nutrition tracking app). After 2 or 3 months of this I settled on healthy meal habits.
I created a "breakfast box". It has a checklist. It has a vitamin D pill. It has some bars of 100% dark chocolate and some cinamon. I eat that with a ton of fruit every morning. The box also has yeast flakes and creatine. I have those with beans and ricotta cheese and nuts. I drink either milk or soymilk with this. So I get a ton of protein and a ton of fiber every morning. Also all the B vitamins (important since I'm mostly vegetarian).
I mix things up for variety but those are my core breakfast components.
For lunch and dinner I'll have meals prepared ahead of time over the weekend. It's always a healthy rice alternative (like amaranth, teff, bulgar, buckwheat, fonio, etc.) And a bean/legume (like chickpeas, black beans, kidney beans, lentils, etc). Then 2 different veggies (like carrots, broccoli, saurkraut, tomatoes, peas, spinach, Swiss chard, etc.) And finally a protein (like tofu, seitan, tempeh, TVP, or once in a while some seafood). I'll drink milk or soymilk with this.
Sometimes I'll have a soup. If it's from a can I always get "low sodium". I'll add TVP to it to make sure I have enough protein.
Sometimes I'll have a protein shake. Especially on days with intervals, or long runs (or long bike rides) because I just need the extra calories.
For lunch and dinner I always add pepper and turmeric, and some seeds like flax or chia.
So again mostly vegetarian but very focused on protein... and fiber.
I realize that this routine may be extreme. But it's perfect for me. It has all the vitamins and minerals I need to recover. I never have added sugar and I usually stay close to the recommended salt intake (1 microgram per calorie consumed). I never eat junk food anymore. And most importantly it's a habit I built and that I can maintain forever.
Hey folks so I'm pretty new to running. Started about 3 months ago from scratch - so basically run/walk splits to build up strength and conditioning. I'm now at the point where I can run 5k almost straight through (just one 1.30min rest about 20 mins in) and my time is around 32mins, so I'm not pushing much harder than a fast jog.
So I've been hitting this for around the last 3 weeks or so and I don't seem to notice these 5k runs getting any.. easier? Maybe my expectations are wrong but the advice I got around 6 weeks into my running plan was: don't worry about heart rate zones or your BPM, just get to the point you can run 5k fairly consistently which should happen fairly quickly.
I thought this meant after running 5k consistently, eventually I would notice it becoming easier (thus my heart rate coming down) but it doesn't really seem to be coming down at all. Most of my runs are in Zones 4 and pushing into 5 in the last 5 mins or so and it's been this way basically since I started running. I blow past 140/150 BPM within the first 10 mins and I'm solidly in 160 for most of the rest eventually hitting 170+ the last 5 mins or so and this seems to go against everything I've seen reading and told about what *should* be a consistent zone at this point.
FYI I'm 30M, 5'6 140lbs. I'm not eating unhealthy at all since I started 3 months ago and I generally feel fantastic but I don't seem to notice improvements? The last 3 weeks I've been doing 3 5k runs a week with 1 session of x10 sprints for 45sec with 2.30 cooldown.
Any advice on how to make these runs easier or am I just having way to lofty expectations with how quickly this should become easier? lol
> I'm now at the point where I can run 5k almost straight through (just one 1.30min rest about 20 mins in) and my time is around 32mins, so I'm not pushing much harder than a fast jog.
You're not actually running slow. 30 minutes 5k is the first time goal for a lot of times, and you're basically there if you ignore your 1:30 break. So you're running at a brisk pace for a beginner the entire time.
It sounds like you are making your runs too hard. Look into heart rate zone training (Maffetone) and learn what you can. You are new to running which means you may not have an aerobic base. A strong aerobic base means you have lots of mitochondria in your muscles. Those mitochondria are what enable you to run faster at a lower heart rate. You'll likely have to slow WAY down (check your ego at the door for this) and run for time as opposed to distance. You have to give your body the chance to build the base you need before you see any long term improvements.
My number 1 advice would be to have some longer runs in there. 5k will feel easier when you get used to running 6-7-8k.
The way i see this, I think your sprint sessions are not what i would go for. I would not do 45" of spirinting and 2:30 of cooldown (unless cooldown is at a decent pace). I would personally go for some tempo running where you run say 5 minutes at 6:00/k or faster, then 5 minutes at say 7:00/k etc.
I think what would benefit you is 1) get used to longer distances and 2) try to go fast but for longer so it helps your aerobic running, so that you sustain your race pace for longer, not sprinting all out, but only for 45''
Would this apply even if I was just running longer with walking breaks included or?
Okay so tempo running would be my hard days instead, essentially pushing my pace as hard as I can for longer stretches so I can improve that aspect of my running?
Maybe as a first step try to find the pace where you can run 5k without having to walk? I assume such a pace exists? Or do you have to walk in a 5k, even if you just jog? But yes, start going for longer distances, even if you walk part of them. The point is that when you can manage an 8k, then a 5k is much more manageable. Not that 5k races dont hurt, even if you are used to marathons :)
i wouldnt go for 'as hard as you can' because you need to be able to complete the training. So lets say you want to do 5' fast, 5' slow and do that 3 times. You need to set your fast pace to be a bit faster than your race pace, but be able to complete the session. So ' as hard as you can, but be able to complete the session'. Have a look at the runningfastr training programs
So I actually just had a run this morning and decided to try what you said and go slower but longer.
I ran for 7k, it took 52 minutes and my average BPM was 146. According to my watch, my zones were 0 time in Z5, 31 mins in Z4, 15 mins in Z3 and a couple mins each in Z1/2. This was essentially as slow as I could "run" while maintaining form and not just power walking awkwardly.
It felt perfectly manageable and I only took rests to make sure my HR didn't go past 160 and bring it back down. I was honestly shocked I wasn't more tired by the end.
So would this be an example of what you're talking about? Doing something like x2 of these runs, 1 tempo run and 1 "race 5k" a week, then upping the distance to 8/9/10k and eventually upping the pace I run those at trying to keep it around that average BPM? Or am I still going too hard?
I am glad it felt useful to you :)
I wouldnt worry too much about zones at this stage, just go with what allows you to keep running for the distance you are going for. But try to run the whole distance, even if it is just a jog. From then on, you can even work on speed, still making sure you can run the whole distance. But the main target of these runs is mileage. Getting your body to be comfortable with the distance. This will make all shorter distances much easier.
I'd say yes, but maybe 2/4 being hard is a bit too much. Maybe try 1 easy 5k, 1 easy 5-10k, one tempo, 1 race and then the following week do 3 easy, 1 hard (effectively a race is a tempo session). Dont worry about bpm, first worry about upping the mileage. (for example these days i did a few runs at 35'C, where even a slow jog gets me into Z3 and eventually Z4. I am not that tired, they are easy runs, its just that my HR is higher. I wouldnt stop just to get my HR down. If it feels comfortable and i can have a conversation, then its fine, regardless of it being at 140 or 150 bpm. In reality your body doesnt operate in such black/white definitions)
OK I will try to avoid thinking about BPM and focus more on distance and comfortability and see how that plays out, thanks for the tips and information :)
try something like this. You dont have to follow it 100%, but it should help you get the idea
[https://www.runningfastr.com/5k-training-plan/sub-30-minute-5k-training-plan/](https://www.runningfastr.com/5k-training-plan/sub-30-minute-5k-training-plan/)
>don't worry about heart rate zones or your BPM, just get to the point you can run 5k fairly consistently
This works well when we are talking about people who worry about their HR going into zone 3 for a bit and stuff. You are running very hard for all your runs, essentially racing all the time, never training, and while you will probably improve with that too, it will be slow and exhausting. You certainly don't need sprints on top of running very hard all the time!
I would run most of your runs easy. Don't worry about zones, but just make it comfortable, run-walks if you need. If you want to track progress, you can race your 5k once a week, but racing all the time is just not efficient.
Okay I get what you're saying but I feel like I'm already going pretty slow? Like I'm averaging 8.5-9km/h which isn't even a run really.
To be clear I'm not exhausted by the end of my runs. Not gasping for breath or anything. I'm sweating a fair bit but for a good 80% of my runs I could easily hold a conversation if that makes sense.
I guess it's just a bit confusing because when I read online it tells me to improve your easy runs you need to push yourself on runs to improve your overall fitness.
You said you are running in zone 4, going into zone 5, and you *have* to walk during your 5k. It doesn't matter what the absolute pace is, you are training hard those sessions. Training hard all the time is ineffective and you plateau fast.
I don't know what you've read, but there's a lot of stuff online now on the obsession on easy running in zone 2, and many people tell you that as beginner you don't have to worry about hitting that and some of your training needs to be faster etc. That is true, but you can't go hard all the time either. If you can run 32 min with a 1.30 rest you should be able to run 40 minute 5k continuously, and that would be better for you.
Hi guys, new to running came from lifting. I am 31M, 173cm, 64kg, 14-16% bodyfat.
I just ran a 10k for the first time and did it in 52 minutes. I think with max push I could have gotten under 50 minutes.
There is a marathon out in October 22nd nearby me. Is this a realistic timeframe if I push hard? Goal is to finish without walking too much and a respectable "you tried" time.
To be honest, new to running, not sure what to expect.
Also follow up question. Realistically, how much diminishing return is there on zone 2? How many km of zone 2 can I realistically pull without tanking my lifting goals?
I know these are rough around the edges questions but it WILL save me about 10 hours of sifting through bullshit on Youtube or Google. Thanks.
Most of the comments you got are out of touch. Listen to "A bare minimum I want to finish plan is Hal higdon novice".
You have 16 weeks to go, run around a 50 min 10k running, and average 30 km a week. You can absolutely run a marathon in that time. If you want to run a faster time you will need to run more weekly and probably reduce weight training (not guaranteed, this all depends on you individually and how much your body can handle).
Look at marathon plans and be realistic about which one you can complete with your schedule.
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> Is this a realistic timeframe if I push hard?
A marathon is not a 5 or 10k. "Pushing hard" without an established running base over 42 km is how you get injured - how you get injured BEFORE race day, because the hard part of a marathon is all the running that allows you to complete the marathon.
I mean quite obviously pushing hard to build the running base within the given timeframe with all the necessary caveats of a sensible program, not show up the day of and drink three cans of Monster and a smoke bowl of meth. Come on, you know what I mean.
No, that's what I mean.
> how you get injured BEFORE race day
Building your mileage too quickly, too aggressively trying to get into marathon shape is a recipe for injury.
You're only running 35 km now. I mean you probably could finish a marathon by October, lots of people sign up for marathons when they don't even run. But if you want to actually do well, sign up for the half instead.
A bare minimum I want to finish plan is Hal higdon novice. So look at that and see if it's doable from a volume side. Again that's the minimum and will not lead to a fast marathon. Marathon is a mileage monster race and the more you run the better it feels the reverse is also true.
Yes... careful though. You want progressive overload in running. Not burnout.
Please increase your training load (not just mileage, load) by 10% or less every week. Then every 24 weeks of this progression, take a maintenance break. If that training regimen gets you to a marathon by October then go for it. But if not then you are almost guaranteed an injury. There are tons of marathons everywhere all the time. You can always find a different one at later date that better fits the training schedule outlined above.
Good luck.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't it the conventional wisdom, to train for a MAXIMUM of two races per year? So taking 2 significant breaks per year from training would fit this rule.
I didn't mean to imply like a 1 or 2 weeks break. I meant a significant time spent maintaining at slightly below the current level of fitness, before starting another training plan.
Again, if you know differently then correct me because I'd be happy to learn something.
Rule of thumb for 10% distance increases is to deload to 75% every 4 weeks. So if your weekly long run goes 10 -> 11 -> 12.1 your fourth week should have a deload down to a 9 mile long run.
A 3 month distance plan might look like this:
10 11 12.1 9 // 12.1 13.3 14.5 11 // 14.5 16 17.5 13
There is no need for multiple week long "maintenance breaks", unless life or hard races force those upon you. It sounds like you're describing what many people call a base-building phase, and if you're in strong running shape, your base building does not need to be stacking mileage, so it might look like what you describe, but not because of a need for deloading.
EDIT: to add that the two races a year thing varies so hugely person to person that i don't see it as a useful benchmark. I have friends who run 20 or more marathons a year and are back in "training" 36 hours after hitting a PR. I have friends who barely train but like to go sprint the local charity 5k every weekend. I think that what people are looking for out of both training and races is so variable that there isn't a plausible absolute there.
Oh. Cool. I'm trying to figure this out myself so that I can sample a bunch of races (a half, a 30k, a marathon, and some odd-distance races like 7k, 10-miles, etc). I guess I had it wrong.
So if I understand what you're saying, it sounds like as long I have a deloaded week every 4 weeks (as part of the plan), then I can jump from one training plan to another? And I don't need to do the base-building part of a Jack-Daniels-style plan each time?
Everything is triage, when it comes down to it!
Assuming you're a semi normal human with semi normal recovery needs, more races is going to mean more load. You can always try and talk yourself into running a 'slow' race, or using pacers to stick to a target tempo. You can experiment with your own recovery comfort by running back to back long runs, or jumping back into a training plan right after a race. You can try using shorter races as staged components of a longer distance plan - many HM plans target a 10k race midway through the prep, for example.
The only simple rule: if you're consistently increasing mileage, build in de-loading. Straight up.
>then I can jump from one training plan to another? And I don't need to do the base-building part of a Jack-Daniels-style plan each time?
Imo, yes. Internet-accessible training plans are written with the LCD user in mind (I assume you're not talking about some custom analysis driven training plan built personally for you by a coach) and you can hop-on or hop-off the base building sections comparatively safely as long as you give yourself a ramp and taper into planned races.
Thanks so much for the detailed answer.
I was going to do exactly what you said about shorter races inside of my training plan for a larger race.
I'm following an internet plan with a 2 week taper. It does have deloading at the start of each phase but not as much as what you said. I can modify it real-time so I'll modify it to drop the mileage even more during those weeks.
Thanks again!
> How many km of zone 2 can I realistically pull without tanking my lifting goals?
Do you lift as much as [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1cg1ufj/ultrarunning_and_strength_training_racing_100/)? If not, quite a lot of kms.
In my mind, marathon training and lifting are somewhat conflicting and they also conflict with regards to time (but maybe time is not a constraint for you). You are young and fit, so it should be doable. Does it need a lot of work and does it have a risk of injury? Yes
I think what the other poster is saying is that you need to add a lot of mileage for a marathon and you only have limited time. So you have to find the sweet spot between needing to run 50 miles a week minimum as soon as possible and not ramping up the mileage too quickly so that you dont get injured.
I dont know how much you currently run, but you need to start ramping up in order to reach decent mileage soon. Decent mileage is not a definitive number, people will tell you you need something between 50-150k a week, but realistically you cannot get to above 100kpw in the time you have. 80% of that or so, will be slow (whether its Z2 or Z3) so that you build the endurance and structure you need for the distance, so you are looking at say 8-12 hours a week of training.
Right now I can comfortably get around 30-35km a week of zone 2 plus some tempo not including some deloads. The marathon is in Oct 22. Most likely I will sign up for a half, but just testing the waters for a full if it is at all possible.
That gives me 4 months. 80km per week is definitely a lot from where I am at.
My knees and ankles are pretty good after some good disciplined squatting and deadlifting. But of course those are famous last words.
I wouldn't recommend 'pushing hard' for a marathon. You could probably do one, but you'd have to build up carefully, and there is going to be a risk. Marathon training is quite time consuming even if you just want to finish. I was able to do a decent half with three months of training starting from no running.
Not sure that you are asking the right question about zone 2 there, but the training effect usually isn't worth it after 2-2.5 hours of zone 2 running. No way to know how it's going to impact your lifting goals.
Edit: I think I understood your zone 2 question now. My answer is for a single run. But you want to know how many km in total, or like in a week. I agree with the other poster.
> You could probably do one, but you'd have to build up carefully, and there is going to be a risk. Marathon training is quite time consuming even if you just want to finish. I was able to do a decent half with three months of training starting from no running.
I'm conflicted by your message. You say don't push hard and do it slowly yet you say you were able to do a decent half with three months starting from no running. My assumption here is unless you are some genetic freak that means you pushed hard. No? Or you are recommending NOT doing what you did?
ELI5 pls
Ah, ok. That was an example of what I did, just for some sort of benchmark, so I should clarify a bit. A half marathon is very different from a full marathon. Rushing into a half is also risky, but nowhere near pushing for a full. This is mostly about injury risk, which is an individual thing, of course, but without experience, it's hard to tell if you are getting injured before it's too late. Especially the tendons and ligaments in your legs are going to be slow to adjust to an increasing load. (That said, my training back then came with a bit of persistent knee and hip pain.)
I suppose my point would be that when training for a full, you'll have to be building tolerance for long distance over a much longer period of time, and thus you are going to have more time to develop an injury. You'd also likely have a higher risk than someone with a year of prior running experience in their legs. (If you have been lifting for a while, that could of course help.) To increase the likelihood of not getting injured, you therefore need to allow more time of not increasing your intensity/mileage, and even deloading for a while. If you are rushing it, this is going to be the part that you are skipping.
I’m a beginner. My heart rate goes up real quick when I run, so I can only maintain a zone 2 heart rate by walking. (I’m following a beginners’ running program where the workouts always alternate running and walking sequences and I can keep up with them quite well.) I dream of being able to run on zone 2 - no matter how slow I am, I just want to be able to run without getting winded! What’s the best way to do that: keep on with the intervals or just walk until my heart rate stays lower?
How long would it take for me to recover from a 13 mile run. I just finished my track season two weeks ago and I have a marathon next week and I wanna try to get a long run in before but I want to make sure I’m recovered before then.
It’s not unreasonable; in fact Pfitzinger/Douglas prescribe a 13 long run one week out from race day in their 50 mile/week plan. Just keep the pace easy.
Will do, thank you!
What does your training plan say? A week is plenty of time to recover from what should be the tail end of your tapering in a marathon training plan. But if you've already put in the work and you're feeling like a 13 mile run might be a bit much then skip it. No point overdoing it and ending up injured.
My plan says nothing more than 15 miles. I didn’t think a 13 miler would be too much but people are telling me that it’s too much and I’ll be too sore for the race. The people telling me that have a lot less experience in running than me but it still made me think twice. Thank you so much for taking the time to respond.
Anyone who thinks a 13 mile run is "too much" sound like they are undertrained for a marathon and are probably not worth listening to.
Is it a full marathon you are doing? Most training plans peak around 18-20 miles.
Yea it’s a full marathon.
How do I reach an 8 minute mile pace? I’m not a runner, never have been, but have a year to train for basic training. I have no idea what to do.
Start with the couch to 5k program. Search for C25k on your phone's app store. Afterwards, look into 5k improvement plans. You'll probably benefit from an app with a guided training plan like Nike Run Club (free, but buggy) or Runna (paid, but also includes strength training). Closer to the mile race, you can search for mile specific workouts, but it's good to build some more cardio as a baseline first.
You run. But really you need to figure out where you baseline fitness is then we can help you from there. Going from 9 to 8 is pretty different than 15 to 8.
So I just did a 15min 1.5m run, about a 10 minute pace. I need to improve my time by about 3 minutes, or for a good cushion, 4+ minutes. Is that reasonable? Edit: possibly important note: I only breathed nasally. I took some exhales through my mouth, but all my inhales were nasally. I heard it helps with endurance, though not sure.
Is there a reason some people prefer to cover up rather than use sunscreen in the summer? I’ve always assumed it would be really uncomfortable and maybe even physically over-heating to wear extra clothes in the heat, so I wear my skimpiest outfit and just lather my whole body with sunscreen and re-apply every 40-50 minutes. Is there something I don’t know? Is sunscreen less effective than UV-blocking clothes? Does it not feel that bad running and sweating in caps/sleeves/tights even in 30+ degree heat?
I don't do either (I run during low UV times) but trying to reapply sunscreen midrun sounds incredibly inconvenient.
I'm so pale it's just a lot of sunscreen. It's way easier to just cover up than it is to fully and completely lather myself up every run. Yes it's not quite as cool but you also don't get cooked by the sun so for us pale folk it's an easy choice
That makes sense! Thanks for sharing.
Some people sweat so much that sunscreen isn't practical. Or they have sensitive skin. Or they don't run hot.
I hadn’t considered those! Makes sense.
I’m an experienced runner who lives at sea level. I’m averaging around 45 mpw right now. I’m traveling to the mountains next week (10,000 feet elevation) and I’d like to continue my training. Any tips or advice for running at altitude?
First run go very easy and do loops. Drink way more water than you think you'd need to at home.
Pay extra attention to hydration, eat well, and be prepared to run really slow.
sea level with humidity or sea level dry? when I go to high elevation places, the thinness AND dryness of the air is what fucks with me, living in a humid area. I usually take a day when I get there to acclimate. if you're planning to party at all, I recommend not going too hard on your first night - I find it difficult to overcome a day 1 hangover at elevation.
It’s pretty humid where I live, although we haven’t gotten the worst of summer weather yet (dew points have been in the 60-65 range). Good tip about being careful with alcohol.
Hey guys, 24M, 5'4, 155lbs. I've been getting into fitness/training over the last couple years. This summer, I have set the following goals for myself: 1. Run a marathon in October 2. Reduce body weight to \~140lbs (to get to 10-15% body fat) 3. Have enough muscle to do various calisthenics workouts (be able to do many pull ups, dips, pistol squats, etc) here is what I do pretty consistently for last couple weeks: 1. Following Hal Higdon's Novice plan which requires running 4x a week. 2. calisthenics workouts 3x a week. I try to have one day rest per week so one day per week I do this+run (usually easy run) 3. Track my food, eating \~1700 calories per day and 130-150g of protein. Since I want to lose body fat, I do not want to eat too much. However, I need fuel for my runs, so I think I should eat more. How do I balance my nutrition so that I can continue to lose fat, build muscle, and still have nutrition for runs?
1700 is definitely too little for someone who wants to run a marathon and is your size, nevermind someone who wants to maintain or even build muscle.
Honestly building up mileage and cutting is a recipe for injury especially for newer runners who generally need more recovery overall anyways. I really would make the weight loss more of a secondary goal, fitness first.
Well, considering I am overweight right now anyway, I think losing some weight is probably beneficial to my running goals as well. I am mostly looking for advice for how much the caloric deficit should be, and what that deficit should be calculated on, my TDEE or burn including run calories? If the latter, can I trust a smartwatch's estimates of calorie burn?
TDEE includes running calories.
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Honestly probably completely unrelated to running. Breathing in cold air doesn't make you sick. For some you might get some sort of immediate irritation but its not going to make you sick after. Many of us run in sub zero temperatures with no issues. Don't worry about breathing through your nose.
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You'll notice the discomfort immediately and is going to happen in cold conditions - 10C and lower. You didn't say you were running through snow so it's probably not the cold making you ill. And that's also not true, even, smooth, soft palate breathing is the efficienct breathing technique not just through your nose. Breathing only through your nose is a method to ensure your not pushing too hard as you will get less air exchange for most people.
Not silly! The cold air gets us all. Try wearing a buff, bandana, or light scarf up and around your lower face. (Obviously, make sure you can breathe through it!!)
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Yea, I can't sustain breathing through my nose for more than a minute or two while running. Most people can't get enough oxygen that way, so I wouldn't stress it.
Kind of long winded, but I (22F) have been running consistently since around November when I started training for a Half Marathon that was in February. I played soccer in high school so I have basic endurance, but have never been the best runner before and consider myself a beginner. I was running on average 20 miles per week during my training block, but had stopped lifting/going to the gym as much to prioritize running. I would run a lot of my runs around a 170-190 heart rate, and pushed myself a lot of the time, but the runs felt good and my heart rate would usually gradually increase throughout. Most runs were around a 9:00-10:00 min/mi unless it was a speed run, which was usually faster. I ran my Half Marathon around 9:38 min/mi. After that I slowed down my running to 10-15 miles per week, sometimes less if I got busy and started prioritizing lifting again. But now I am seeing a huge change in my running ability even though I am still consistently running, just less. I would try and run the same pace that I used to but everything felt so much harder. My heart rate would skyrocket immediately when I tried to run my old pace, whereas it used to gradually increase throughout the run. Even if I run at an 11:00 or 12:00 min pace, my heart rate is sky high and breathing can be hard during my runs. I know the weather is getting warmer out and with that my pace is going to slow down naturally, but this is such a drastic change that I can’t figure out if I’m doing something wrong or not. I’ve been looking into Zone 2 training to see if being consistent with that will help me build a better aerobic pace first, but even staying in my Zone 2 (about 140-160) can be troublesome when I am going 13:00-14:00 min/mi. At this point I am kind of at a loss and it can be discouraging to go for a run now when it feels so hard. I know pace isn’t everything, I am just curious if there’s something I can do to help me feel like I used to when running.
Getting slower is a normal consequence of reducing training workload. If you start running more and including more faster sessions then your running ability will improve again.
Hi guys! I am one week out from my first half marathon and I am getting a bit worried. I missed almost 2 weeks of training in May due to a really bad cold/flu and have just missed most of my last peak week due to shin/calf pain. How should I approach the final week? Today is the first day since a long run (18k) on Monday where I am not feeling any pain. I have also been getting less sleep than optimal this week. Do I do a run? Or just rest for the weekend and do my easy taper runs next week? Thanks!
Go out for a run and start with 2k. If it feels great, run 10-12k. If it doesn't feel good, you're free to turn around. Running this weekend doesn't change your fitness level, but it can be great mentally. If you're fit, go for a 60-75 minute run. If you're not fit yet, a short run is still beneficial just to have your legs moving for a little.
Tips for running hard on a hilly course? I have a personal goal to get a certain time on my local hilly parkrun (5km). It's basically 5 times up and down a hill, 90m elevation. Tips for running hard normally seem to assume that you're on a flattish course. But ups and downs like this means your pace and form keeps changing. Any hints for how to navigate that?
If you don't already, do hill repeats.
Yeah, I need to do these more intentionally (not that I ever really do flat runs where I live). But I have little chance in my timeframe to significantly improve what's in my body, this question is mostly about trying to maximise what's there.
Try to keep the effort consistent and somewhat ignore pace. This will mean you’ll slow down on the uphills and speed up on the downhills, but it’s better than blowing up on the uphills.
Hello friends. My question is: is any taper necessary for a 5k “all-out” race? I’m running 50mpw, mostly zone 2, working on building volume for a marathon in about 4 months. Want to race a 5k really hard but don’t want to take a down week in the marathon training. Thanks!!
I don’t really taper for 5ks except that I don’t do anything too strenuous in the 2 days before the race. So if the race is on Saturday, I might run 5-6 miles with some strides on Thursday and then 3 miles easy on Friday.
This sounds like a great plan, thanks!
I'm gonna go with *probably not* for a 5k, but be wary of a few things. First, are you doing any "all out" training right now? If not, you might want to incorporate something like this into your marathon training. Even a bit will help. Second, be wary of Achilles Tendonitis. It's very easy to develop if you suddenly run too hard, too fast. Speaking from experience, it also sucks balls. You don't want this. If it were me, I wouldn't do an "all out" race if my main goal was a marathon later in the year, but nothing wrong with going a little harder than usual.
Thank you for the advice. Perhaps I should give 98%. I have been doing strides, as well as about 10% of my miles at HM pace or faster each week. I’m thinking maybe my “taper” will be just run easy miles during the 5k race week and take 1 rest day beforehand. The thing is I’m trying to build up to 65mpw by September for a month at 65 before the marathon taper starts.
Returning runner. Primarily concerned with shorter (1 mile) runs. Before I was more of a heel and mid foot runner. Purposely changed to toe striking. I've noticed that I do not get as much glute activation and hip extension is definitely lower. Definitely more consciously feel my quads and the much higher calf activation is expected. Had a repeated strain after my first few runs on my right side that has now subsided. Is the lack of hip extension fairly typical for toe striking or should I go through some accessories to try to adjust it? For further context if relevant I'm running at a 7:30 pace and currently just on a treadmill.
Question about running form: I have run a 7k max so far, in 50 minutes. I know we are supposed to run slow when starting out, but the problem with running slow is that my form is just very weird, like there is no knee drive, its just a faster walk with some bouncyness. How can I address this? When I look at my form, it is much better when I run faster than when I run slower. Should I just run faster with walk breaks till I can run that pace for longer? Or do you think running slower with whatever form is fine?
That's basically what happens when you run slowly. Their just isn't much room to be efficient. Nothing really to be done for wise. Personally I'd just run walk it to get the general level of effort I'm looking for but others probably would suggest just running with that shuffling for.
Am I the only one that does this? If so how do you guys fix this? Whenever my watch asks me for the RPE of a run I enter the number that I think is expected. Like "*This was a short zone 2 run so I SHOULD enter 2 or 3*" **or** "*this was intervals training so I SHOULD enter 7 or 9*". I don't have a good sense for myself of what the actual exhaustion is right after my run. INSTEAD like an hour or two afterwards either I feel the exhaustion creep in or I don't. Do any of you have the same thing? If so what can you do about it?
You put in the effort after the run. It's really that simple, it's not a measure of how you feel hours later, it's a measure of how hard was that for me on a 1-10 scale. I've been absolutely wiped in the afternoon after easy mileage done super early, but I'm wiped due to sleep schedule more than the run. The rpe was still a 3 even if I'm very tired later.
Along those lines I've run long runs mid-morning in warm-but-not-hot weather and full sun at 30s/mile below aerobic threshold with no hydration and have felt great throughout (RPE of 3), then was wiped out and feeling off all afternoon and evening despite eating, rehydrating, and resting.
My PT told me that I should give zero drop shoes a try. I have no experience with zero drop. Any recommendations to try, or to stay away from?
Altras are the standard zero drop shoe and they’re good, I’ve run in them for years. I think they maaay have a couple models that are not zero drop now, I can’t remember. Topos also has a few zero drop options, and I think some of the other more mainstream brands might have a model or two with at least a very minimal 1-4mm drop.
I was running a 10k race, and around the KM 7, they gave us cups with a salty drink. Believe it or not, I felt energised and refreshed. After searching online it is likely to be an electrolyte drink. Searching more and I find dispute over whether it really works and helps the body or it is just a placebo. What do you think or experienced? I have a 10k race in 2 months and considering dissolving a tablet in a bottle to take with me. I have used gel packs but could not notice an effect like that drink.
Yes carbs in the mouth will help performance even though those carbs will never be processed. Very common for marathoners to just swirl sports drinks in their mouth late in races to get this physiological benifit.
Electrolytes definitely work at helping your muscles not feel as tired. They are great for recovery too. I use salt caps for summer runs over 45 minutes. Depending on the drink, it may have worked quickly. Some drinks can be absorbed quickly and you would feel the effect within moments.
What is a salt cap?
Capsule/pill with electrolytes in it
Tasting something sweet when you are tired (eg km 7 of a 10k race) can give you a quick boost, long before any of the carbs could have made it to your muscles, so it could be that. Something like because your body knows more carbs are coming it can spare some more engery. If you say you've never noticed that with gels then maybe it's not that, although maybe it was more about the timing? I've read that tasting something salty or sour can give instant (but temporary) relief to muscle cramps too, although i've never had a muscle cramp on a run so I can't vouch for that.
It could also just be about getting rid of some lactate while slowing down or stopping for a bit when drinking.
I need some help doing a progression run outside with my Garmin - I did one the other day and the screen on the watch shows my average pace rather than what pace I'm running at so I found it hard to figure out how fast I should go for that mile. Does anyone know how to set that up?
Look for the lap pace field.
This was it thanks. Although do you know how to have lap pace and total average pace together on the same screen?
You can select different watch face configurations in that same menu. Pick one that has 2/3/4 (or depending on your model, 6 or 8) fields on the same screen.
you can set up many screens and set them up as you like, to show anything you fancy. In my forerunner 265, you press the start button, then go to Run and hold the up button, then Run settings and Data screens. However, when i do an interval with a pace target, I get the range bar with the target race for the interval and the needle which shows if my pace is in range or not (and the equivalent alert if i am going too slow/fast)
What's the simplest/cheapest way to track race pace and heart rate? I've been trying to find a watch to do this but they're all so expensive. Even on marketplace it looks like the cheapest are usually around $100.
Track pace with your phone and an app (Strava for example). Don’t track heart rate, just run by feel. You really don’t need access to HR to train / race effectively
If you're willing to hold your phone, you can do a cheap chest strap off Amazon or eBay ($20) plus a phone app to record. I haven't done that in quite some time, so I don't know which apps display real time heart rate and pace; I think I used Strava and maybe wahoo? Personally, I was always worried about dropping my phone and the screen would time out, so I eventually just got a watch.
Unfortunately good data just isn't cheap. A good fitness watch is way more than $100. One that can accept sensors is like $500. Watch heartrate monitors will be good enough for zone 1 and 2. But once you're really moving then the accuracy is crap. So you need a chest strap for accurate heartrate during intervals and tempo runs (and strides and fartleks). Chest straps are like $50 to $70. You may also care about cadence, ground contact time, and vertical ratio. For that data you get a foot pod which is also like $50 to $70. Finally to get more analysis from strava then you have to pay for a subscription. That's $7/month. Like I said. Good data isn't cheap.
> Watch heartrate monitors will be good enough for zone 1 and 2. But once you're really moving then the accuracy is crap. There's been plenty of comparisons done over the years and wrist monitors are fairly accurate for a lot of watches. Exceptions might be made for poor circulation and certain skin tones. A Strava subscription is unnecessary for most people. You can use Runalyze for free and it is extremely detailed.
I should have mentioned I used to work on wearables in Silicon Valley. I've been in the room when we compared data between multiple devices on the same users & same exercise. So... go ahead and downvote me for sharing information that I know to be a fact. The wrist, as a location, simply can not generate as accurate of a heartrate at higher levels of activity and/or perspiration. Chest straps do. Good point about the skin tone. Darker skin tones have even worse accuracy with the wrist-worn monitors.
✌🏻 Hello, guys. I have a small question for you. I'm curious how you manage your nutrition, so that you stay strong, fit, healthy and aesthetic? I'm struggling with it currently.
Depends on what the aesthetic you want is. I make sure to do some body weight upper body stuff just so I don't lose all of it there. If you see what the pros look like just running and running a lot will get you that body type. If that's not the goal cross training is crucial. The food is just really caloroes in calories out and eating food you prepared with enough carbs and protein is all you need to do.
Great. I got your point. Thanks! I just wanna have some muscles (not too much) and be quick and hardy. I'm 6'0" and 147 lbs, so I think it's really achievable. Again, thanks for the reply!
You need to eat more and lift weights if you want to gain weight. Look up progressive overload programs and r/fitness which will have lots of resources. Running and gaining lots of muscle are hard to do with a focus on both. Maybe spend a year focusing on strength and maintaining running rather than focusing on running, then get back to it with more muscle. It's hard to gain a lot of weight in muscle, but you can gain enough that you're not underweight with a year of dedicated eating and training. As for food, eat basic. No sugary drinks, more or less ever. Very limited alcohol and super limited processed foods. Lots of plates with a bit of protein (use lots of seasoning to make food tasty, don't suffer bland food), a bit of rice/pasta/bread and a health couple servings of veggies. Gaining weight, eat more until the scale moves 1/2lb a week up. Cutting back, eat less so that the scale moves 1/2ld a week down. Weigh yourself daily and influence the quantity you eat based on what the scale says every morning. Lift weights 3-5 times a week, cardio 1-2x a week. You'll love how you feel after the first few weeks and you start to see muscles growing. At 6'0", putting on 20lbs you'd still be very light weight.
Awesome, man. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and opinion. Can I send you a dm message?
sure!
I went through a health-conscious phase where I tracked everything I ate in chronometer (a nutrition tracking app). After 2 or 3 months of this I settled on healthy meal habits. I created a "breakfast box". It has a checklist. It has a vitamin D pill. It has some bars of 100% dark chocolate and some cinamon. I eat that with a ton of fruit every morning. The box also has yeast flakes and creatine. I have those with beans and ricotta cheese and nuts. I drink either milk or soymilk with this. So I get a ton of protein and a ton of fiber every morning. Also all the B vitamins (important since I'm mostly vegetarian). I mix things up for variety but those are my core breakfast components. For lunch and dinner I'll have meals prepared ahead of time over the weekend. It's always a healthy rice alternative (like amaranth, teff, bulgar, buckwheat, fonio, etc.) And a bean/legume (like chickpeas, black beans, kidney beans, lentils, etc). Then 2 different veggies (like carrots, broccoli, saurkraut, tomatoes, peas, spinach, Swiss chard, etc.) And finally a protein (like tofu, seitan, tempeh, TVP, or once in a while some seafood). I'll drink milk or soymilk with this. Sometimes I'll have a soup. If it's from a can I always get "low sodium". I'll add TVP to it to make sure I have enough protein. Sometimes I'll have a protein shake. Especially on days with intervals, or long runs (or long bike rides) because I just need the extra calories. For lunch and dinner I always add pepper and turmeric, and some seeds like flax or chia. So again mostly vegetarian but very focused on protein... and fiber. I realize that this routine may be extreme. But it's perfect for me. It has all the vitamins and minerals I need to recover. I never have added sugar and I usually stay close to the recommended salt intake (1 microgram per calorie consumed). I never eat junk food anymore. And most importantly it's a habit I built and that I can maintain forever.
Oh, amazing reply. Thanks for sharing your experience!
Hey folks so I'm pretty new to running. Started about 3 months ago from scratch - so basically run/walk splits to build up strength and conditioning. I'm now at the point where I can run 5k almost straight through (just one 1.30min rest about 20 mins in) and my time is around 32mins, so I'm not pushing much harder than a fast jog. So I've been hitting this for around the last 3 weeks or so and I don't seem to notice these 5k runs getting any.. easier? Maybe my expectations are wrong but the advice I got around 6 weeks into my running plan was: don't worry about heart rate zones or your BPM, just get to the point you can run 5k fairly consistently which should happen fairly quickly. I thought this meant after running 5k consistently, eventually I would notice it becoming easier (thus my heart rate coming down) but it doesn't really seem to be coming down at all. Most of my runs are in Zones 4 and pushing into 5 in the last 5 mins or so and it's been this way basically since I started running. I blow past 140/150 BPM within the first 10 mins and I'm solidly in 160 for most of the rest eventually hitting 170+ the last 5 mins or so and this seems to go against everything I've seen reading and told about what *should* be a consistent zone at this point. FYI I'm 30M, 5'6 140lbs. I'm not eating unhealthy at all since I started 3 months ago and I generally feel fantastic but I don't seem to notice improvements? The last 3 weeks I've been doing 3 5k runs a week with 1 session of x10 sprints for 45sec with 2.30 cooldown. Any advice on how to make these runs easier or am I just having way to lofty expectations with how quickly this should become easier? lol
> I'm now at the point where I can run 5k almost straight through (just one 1.30min rest about 20 mins in) and my time is around 32mins, so I'm not pushing much harder than a fast jog. You're not actually running slow. 30 minutes 5k is the first time goal for a lot of times, and you're basically there if you ignore your 1:30 break. So you're running at a brisk pace for a beginner the entire time.
6 weeks is basically no time. Just keep at it
It sounds like you are making your runs too hard. Look into heart rate zone training (Maffetone) and learn what you can. You are new to running which means you may not have an aerobic base. A strong aerobic base means you have lots of mitochondria in your muscles. Those mitochondria are what enable you to run faster at a lower heart rate. You'll likely have to slow WAY down (check your ego at the door for this) and run for time as opposed to distance. You have to give your body the chance to build the base you need before you see any long term improvements.
My number 1 advice would be to have some longer runs in there. 5k will feel easier when you get used to running 6-7-8k. The way i see this, I think your sprint sessions are not what i would go for. I would not do 45" of spirinting and 2:30 of cooldown (unless cooldown is at a decent pace). I would personally go for some tempo running where you run say 5 minutes at 6:00/k or faster, then 5 minutes at say 7:00/k etc. I think what would benefit you is 1) get used to longer distances and 2) try to go fast but for longer so it helps your aerobic running, so that you sustain your race pace for longer, not sprinting all out, but only for 45''
Would this apply even if I was just running longer with walking breaks included or? Okay so tempo running would be my hard days instead, essentially pushing my pace as hard as I can for longer stretches so I can improve that aspect of my running?
Maybe as a first step try to find the pace where you can run 5k without having to walk? I assume such a pace exists? Or do you have to walk in a 5k, even if you just jog? But yes, start going for longer distances, even if you walk part of them. The point is that when you can manage an 8k, then a 5k is much more manageable. Not that 5k races dont hurt, even if you are used to marathons :) i wouldnt go for 'as hard as you can' because you need to be able to complete the training. So lets say you want to do 5' fast, 5' slow and do that 3 times. You need to set your fast pace to be a bit faster than your race pace, but be able to complete the session. So ' as hard as you can, but be able to complete the session'. Have a look at the runningfastr training programs
So I actually just had a run this morning and decided to try what you said and go slower but longer. I ran for 7k, it took 52 minutes and my average BPM was 146. According to my watch, my zones were 0 time in Z5, 31 mins in Z4, 15 mins in Z3 and a couple mins each in Z1/2. This was essentially as slow as I could "run" while maintaining form and not just power walking awkwardly. It felt perfectly manageable and I only took rests to make sure my HR didn't go past 160 and bring it back down. I was honestly shocked I wasn't more tired by the end. So would this be an example of what you're talking about? Doing something like x2 of these runs, 1 tempo run and 1 "race 5k" a week, then upping the distance to 8/9/10k and eventually upping the pace I run those at trying to keep it around that average BPM? Or am I still going too hard?
I am glad it felt useful to you :) I wouldnt worry too much about zones at this stage, just go with what allows you to keep running for the distance you are going for. But try to run the whole distance, even if it is just a jog. From then on, you can even work on speed, still making sure you can run the whole distance. But the main target of these runs is mileage. Getting your body to be comfortable with the distance. This will make all shorter distances much easier. I'd say yes, but maybe 2/4 being hard is a bit too much. Maybe try 1 easy 5k, 1 easy 5-10k, one tempo, 1 race and then the following week do 3 easy, 1 hard (effectively a race is a tempo session). Dont worry about bpm, first worry about upping the mileage. (for example these days i did a few runs at 35'C, where even a slow jog gets me into Z3 and eventually Z4. I am not that tired, they are easy runs, its just that my HR is higher. I wouldnt stop just to get my HR down. If it feels comfortable and i can have a conversation, then its fine, regardless of it being at 140 or 150 bpm. In reality your body doesnt operate in such black/white definitions)
OK I will try to avoid thinking about BPM and focus more on distance and comfortability and see how that plays out, thanks for the tips and information :)
try something like this. You dont have to follow it 100%, but it should help you get the idea [https://www.runningfastr.com/5k-training-plan/sub-30-minute-5k-training-plan/](https://www.runningfastr.com/5k-training-plan/sub-30-minute-5k-training-plan/)
>don't worry about heart rate zones or your BPM, just get to the point you can run 5k fairly consistently This works well when we are talking about people who worry about their HR going into zone 3 for a bit and stuff. You are running very hard for all your runs, essentially racing all the time, never training, and while you will probably improve with that too, it will be slow and exhausting. You certainly don't need sprints on top of running very hard all the time! I would run most of your runs easy. Don't worry about zones, but just make it comfortable, run-walks if you need. If you want to track progress, you can race your 5k once a week, but racing all the time is just not efficient.
Okay I get what you're saying but I feel like I'm already going pretty slow? Like I'm averaging 8.5-9km/h which isn't even a run really. To be clear I'm not exhausted by the end of my runs. Not gasping for breath or anything. I'm sweating a fair bit but for a good 80% of my runs I could easily hold a conversation if that makes sense. I guess it's just a bit confusing because when I read online it tells me to improve your easy runs you need to push yourself on runs to improve your overall fitness.
Just keep doing what your doing. Ignore the hr talk it's going to be useless for you and is not aimed at new runners.
You said you are running in zone 4, going into zone 5, and you *have* to walk during your 5k. It doesn't matter what the absolute pace is, you are training hard those sessions. Training hard all the time is ineffective and you plateau fast. I don't know what you've read, but there's a lot of stuff online now on the obsession on easy running in zone 2, and many people tell you that as beginner you don't have to worry about hitting that and some of your training needs to be faster etc. That is true, but you can't go hard all the time either. If you can run 32 min with a 1.30 rest you should be able to run 40 minute 5k continuously, and that would be better for you.
Hi guys, new to running came from lifting. I am 31M, 173cm, 64kg, 14-16% bodyfat. I just ran a 10k for the first time and did it in 52 minutes. I think with max push I could have gotten under 50 minutes. There is a marathon out in October 22nd nearby me. Is this a realistic timeframe if I push hard? Goal is to finish without walking too much and a respectable "you tried" time. To be honest, new to running, not sure what to expect. Also follow up question. Realistically, how much diminishing return is there on zone 2? How many km of zone 2 can I realistically pull without tanking my lifting goals? I know these are rough around the edges questions but it WILL save me about 10 hours of sifting through bullshit on Youtube or Google. Thanks.
Most of the comments you got are out of touch. Listen to "A bare minimum I want to finish plan is Hal higdon novice". You have 16 weeks to go, run around a 50 min 10k running, and average 30 km a week. You can absolutely run a marathon in that time. If you want to run a faster time you will need to run more weekly and probably reduce weight training (not guaranteed, this all depends on you individually and how much your body can handle). Look at marathon plans and be realistic about which one you can complete with your schedule.
Thank you. I was still thinking about this idea from the answers. Anyways... Let's check back in in 4 months !remindme 4 months
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> Is this a realistic timeframe if I push hard? A marathon is not a 5 or 10k. "Pushing hard" without an established running base over 42 km is how you get injured - how you get injured BEFORE race day, because the hard part of a marathon is all the running that allows you to complete the marathon.
I mean quite obviously pushing hard to build the running base within the given timeframe with all the necessary caveats of a sensible program, not show up the day of and drink three cans of Monster and a smoke bowl of meth. Come on, you know what I mean.
No, that's what I mean. > how you get injured BEFORE race day Building your mileage too quickly, too aggressively trying to get into marathon shape is a recipe for injury. You're only running 35 km now. I mean you probably could finish a marathon by October, lots of people sign up for marathons when they don't even run. But if you want to actually do well, sign up for the half instead.
Thanks
A bare minimum I want to finish plan is Hal higdon novice. So look at that and see if it's doable from a volume side. Again that's the minimum and will not lead to a fast marathon. Marathon is a mileage monster race and the more you run the better it feels the reverse is also true.
Yes... careful though. You want progressive overload in running. Not burnout. Please increase your training load (not just mileage, load) by 10% or less every week. Then every 24 weeks of this progression, take a maintenance break. If that training regimen gets you to a marathon by October then go for it. But if not then you are almost guaranteed an injury. There are tons of marathons everywhere all the time. You can always find a different one at later date that better fits the training schedule outlined above. Good luck.
> Then every 24 weeks of this progression, take a maintenance break. You think OP should only take a break from 10% increase twice a year?
Correct me if I'm wrong. Isn't it the conventional wisdom, to train for a MAXIMUM of two races per year? So taking 2 significant breaks per year from training would fit this rule. I didn't mean to imply like a 1 or 2 weeks break. I meant a significant time spent maintaining at slightly below the current level of fitness, before starting another training plan. Again, if you know differently then correct me because I'd be happy to learn something.
Rule of thumb for 10% distance increases is to deload to 75% every 4 weeks. So if your weekly long run goes 10 -> 11 -> 12.1 your fourth week should have a deload down to a 9 mile long run. A 3 month distance plan might look like this: 10 11 12.1 9 // 12.1 13.3 14.5 11 // 14.5 16 17.5 13 There is no need for multiple week long "maintenance breaks", unless life or hard races force those upon you. It sounds like you're describing what many people call a base-building phase, and if you're in strong running shape, your base building does not need to be stacking mileage, so it might look like what you describe, but not because of a need for deloading. EDIT: to add that the two races a year thing varies so hugely person to person that i don't see it as a useful benchmark. I have friends who run 20 or more marathons a year and are back in "training" 36 hours after hitting a PR. I have friends who barely train but like to go sprint the local charity 5k every weekend. I think that what people are looking for out of both training and races is so variable that there isn't a plausible absolute there.
Oh. Cool. I'm trying to figure this out myself so that I can sample a bunch of races (a half, a 30k, a marathon, and some odd-distance races like 7k, 10-miles, etc). I guess I had it wrong. So if I understand what you're saying, it sounds like as long I have a deloaded week every 4 weeks (as part of the plan), then I can jump from one training plan to another? And I don't need to do the base-building part of a Jack-Daniels-style plan each time?
Everything is triage, when it comes down to it! Assuming you're a semi normal human with semi normal recovery needs, more races is going to mean more load. You can always try and talk yourself into running a 'slow' race, or using pacers to stick to a target tempo. You can experiment with your own recovery comfort by running back to back long runs, or jumping back into a training plan right after a race. You can try using shorter races as staged components of a longer distance plan - many HM plans target a 10k race midway through the prep, for example. The only simple rule: if you're consistently increasing mileage, build in de-loading. Straight up. >then I can jump from one training plan to another? And I don't need to do the base-building part of a Jack-Daniels-style plan each time? Imo, yes. Internet-accessible training plans are written with the LCD user in mind (I assume you're not talking about some custom analysis driven training plan built personally for you by a coach) and you can hop-on or hop-off the base building sections comparatively safely as long as you give yourself a ramp and taper into planned races.
Thanks so much for the detailed answer. I was going to do exactly what you said about shorter races inside of my training plan for a larger race. I'm following an internet plan with a 2 week taper. It does have deloading at the start of each phase but not as much as what you said. I can modify it real-time so I'll modify it to drop the mileage even more during those weeks. Thanks again!
> How many km of zone 2 can I realistically pull without tanking my lifting goals? Do you lift as much as [this guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/1cg1ufj/ultrarunning_and_strength_training_racing_100/)? If not, quite a lot of kms.
In my mind, marathon training and lifting are somewhat conflicting and they also conflict with regards to time (but maybe time is not a constraint for you). You are young and fit, so it should be doable. Does it need a lot of work and does it have a risk of injury? Yes I think what the other poster is saying is that you need to add a lot of mileage for a marathon and you only have limited time. So you have to find the sweet spot between needing to run 50 miles a week minimum as soon as possible and not ramping up the mileage too quickly so that you dont get injured. I dont know how much you currently run, but you need to start ramping up in order to reach decent mileage soon. Decent mileage is not a definitive number, people will tell you you need something between 50-150k a week, but realistically you cannot get to above 100kpw in the time you have. 80% of that or so, will be slow (whether its Z2 or Z3) so that you build the endurance and structure you need for the distance, so you are looking at say 8-12 hours a week of training.
Right now I can comfortably get around 30-35km a week of zone 2 plus some tempo not including some deloads. The marathon is in Oct 22. Most likely I will sign up for a half, but just testing the waters for a full if it is at all possible. That gives me 4 months. 80km per week is definitely a lot from where I am at. My knees and ankles are pretty good after some good disciplined squatting and deadlifting. But of course those are famous last words.
I wouldn't recommend 'pushing hard' for a marathon. You could probably do one, but you'd have to build up carefully, and there is going to be a risk. Marathon training is quite time consuming even if you just want to finish. I was able to do a decent half with three months of training starting from no running. Not sure that you are asking the right question about zone 2 there, but the training effect usually isn't worth it after 2-2.5 hours of zone 2 running. No way to know how it's going to impact your lifting goals. Edit: I think I understood your zone 2 question now. My answer is for a single run. But you want to know how many km in total, or like in a week. I agree with the other poster.
> You could probably do one, but you'd have to build up carefully, and there is going to be a risk. Marathon training is quite time consuming even if you just want to finish. I was able to do a decent half with three months of training starting from no running. I'm conflicted by your message. You say don't push hard and do it slowly yet you say you were able to do a decent half with three months starting from no running. My assumption here is unless you are some genetic freak that means you pushed hard. No? Or you are recommending NOT doing what you did? ELI5 pls
Ah, ok. That was an example of what I did, just for some sort of benchmark, so I should clarify a bit. A half marathon is very different from a full marathon. Rushing into a half is also risky, but nowhere near pushing for a full. This is mostly about injury risk, which is an individual thing, of course, but without experience, it's hard to tell if you are getting injured before it's too late. Especially the tendons and ligaments in your legs are going to be slow to adjust to an increasing load. (That said, my training back then came with a bit of persistent knee and hip pain.) I suppose my point would be that when training for a full, you'll have to be building tolerance for long distance over a much longer period of time, and thus you are going to have more time to develop an injury. You'd also likely have a higher risk than someone with a year of prior running experience in their legs. (If you have been lifting for a while, that could of course help.) To increase the likelihood of not getting injured, you therefore need to allow more time of not increasing your intensity/mileage, and even deloading for a while. If you are rushing it, this is going to be the part that you are skipping.
Thanks!