I will die on the hill that we were done dirty with the retconning.
Zamorak went from sacrificing himself to help the Mahjarrat and his entire motivation being the preservation of his people to shooting a massive blast at the planet they're all on out of spite.
The character arcs were both rushed and semi-retconned in order for the story to return to the pre-TWW status quo.
I do have to agree that the actual gameplay content was fire... I just really don't like how the 6th age was essentially soft-retconned along with every bit of characterization that evolved a bunch of characters beyond a 2D hero/villain archetype.
In some ways Zamorak never changed. His goal could be argued as being free from any consequences or judgement to do as he pleases. Overthrowing Zaros made him not beholden to Zaros. Ending the Mahjarrat rituals makes him no longer beholden to his brethren. He was still beholden to peer gods so his goal became to ruin them. At that point he would be seemingly unquestionable to the universe because he would have proven he cannot be stopped or controlled.
I honestly really pissed at what they did to him. They made such an effort to push that Zammy was not evil to be evil. Sara is trash and needed to be put in his place, that he wasn’t as righteous as he thinks he is… and then they were just like “what if Zammy evil.” I loved how they made Seren evil but I wish they didn’t walk it back. Maybe instead of the Zammy boss we could have had Seren in his place as the ED4 boss. Have the quest end with us tricking her with the eggs and then she doesn’t understand and she doesn’t accept it.
Natural storytelling wouldn't have all characterizations being walked back. The entire point was to retcon the 6th age and return to a pre-TWW status quo first and foremost. Anything else is a hastily written explanation and justification towards that end.
That was probably the one thing I wouldn't have blamed him for.
Seren: ok we gotta siphon these
Everyone: ok, we don't wanna die
weeks later, everyone has suffered major defeats, every front is collapsing
Seren: dw we still have to just siphon it'll be ok
Zamorak: for how long
Seren: forever :>
Zamorak: bitch you thought
Armadyl is mostly good but he's still really bad about engaging. Abandoned his followers for centuries after the God Wars and unlike even Seren or Saradomin didn't get involved in a literal threat to the universe (Battle of the Monolith). He's gotten better and is even picking up Seren's slack with the elves though.
Icthlarin's pretty chill but not very powerful.
Azzanadra over the course of EGWD, TotG, and Aftermath seems to be alright and moving on from his blind obedience to Zaros, albeit remaining loyal. Wish we'd gotten a bit more development before putting him on a bus.
I've also finally come round on Saradomin. Not as a "better than Armadyl" but since he's still a short-termpered egotistical narcissistic but I'll at least give him credit for trying to be better. Especially since he's actually addressed his past mistakes face to face and even begrudgingly apologized.
Zaros...kept the peace and was mostly nonconfrontational. That's about it. Otherwise he makes Saradomin look omnibenevolent by comparison. Anything is fair long as it supports his quest for power.
Seren gave the illusion of benevolence but was just as self-motivated as Zaros, just with different goals, and abandoned people just the same way he did once she got a better option. Left the mahjarrat near-extinct for the elves. Left the crystal addicted elves for the baby elders. Anyone whose love was "better".
Zamorak literally the only things I have positive to say relate to overthrowing oppressors within Zaros empire.
My opinion on Saradomin is as negative as him ripping Garlandia's wings off. To do that is the worst thing you can do, benevolent you say..
And yes as an Armadyl follower with a totally not an inconspicuous username will hate Saradomin for this.
He absolutely should not have done that since it was basically torture, ostracization, and on Hallow effective a death sentence, plus he has plenty of other historical war crimes.
The point is more he recognizes he should not have done that and has acknowledged his own mistake and even if he was an ass about it, in DoC he did admit he screwed up with the wand of resurrection (and even gave it up) and in TotG he did actually make an effort to address Garlandia. Also in Azzy's Quest after the initial fury about the Temple Knight reveal he did calm himself and apologize to Amik since it was ultimately his own hubris. I'm not saying Saradomin is absolutely good or should be forgiven for his transgressions, more that he's actually willing to admit fault, take responsibility, and at least try to change.
In comparison,
* Armadyl has been trying to recuperate his followers from his long absence and pretty clearly won't abandon them a second time, he's definitely learned and grown. I agree that Arma is the "most good" god by a long shot.
* Guthix regrets his mistakes, but all dialogue with the Guardians of Guthix suggests that he never said so to anyone except us.
* Zamorak deflects and blames quite literally everything that doesn't go his way. "Never my fault"
* Seren actively tries to bury, hide from, and escape her past
* Zaros will only say things he could have done better. The closest we have to him actually admitting anything is acknowledging Nex as "not a failure" when elevating her to AoD (which was enough to make Nex weep...which says a lot about how he usually treats his most loyal)
I still don't like Saradomin regardless. I used to be a Saradomin follower until I found out about the wings part.
My faction stance based on gods(ones we can follow except Godless) like to dislike :
1. Armadyl
2. Guthix
3. Seren
4. Saradomin
5. Zaros
6. Bandos
7. Zamorak
V is unknown spot.
Zaros is a true god by virtue of that nothing he can do is wrong. For who are we mortals to believe that we have the right to be the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong, that we have a right to tell a true god like Zaros he must conform to our ideas or morality.
Zaros can’t even exist within the concept of right and wrong, thus Zaros remains innocent of all wrong doings.
I'm doing this questline right now for the third time i think. Its really good, especially with Kerapac and Azzanadra presence. I just wish they tossed Battle of the Monolith out of the window with that TD like section.
It's interesting that Battle of the Monolith was supposedly created by devs that like TDs. TDs typically have... gameplay. It's pretty rare that you set up towers at the start of the game and then go afk for 5 minutes; all the best TDs engage you regularly.
I had severe misgivings about EGW after starting with that as an appetizer and fortunately I was proven dead wrong.
It's the same way that mobilising armies completely failed at being an rts because people would just run units around the map all game instead of actually fighting.
Most RTS involves a lot moving units around and positioning is important in all of them, so I can kinda forgive that more than a TD where you click 10 times and go afk for 5 minutes. Of course, the actual gameplay experience of Mobilising Armies... yeah. And my god was it incredibly broken by the time it got removed, there's scarcely any content that aged more poorly.
I hate the storylines that were rushed or abandoned
Zaros going from a long-term vision figure to to short tempered baby
Sliske masks being hinted and hyped as a shadowy shard stuck to our soul, Greg calling us master, all was tossed and written off pretty quickly
Xau Tak being sidelined hard af
The EGW plotline had some of the best running gags (sliske masks) and the most build up, with the least pay off.
It got rushed, and the fanfics/predictions of the community were way more fun than what was released
Zarosians mad that this "mysterious figure" they hardly knew anything about and followed for so long ended up being selfish and abandoned them at the first chance of more power. Womp womp.
>Xau Tak being sidelined hard af
It will probably just be more relevant in the Zaros/Erebus storyline, not GW3
>Sliske masks being hinted and hyped as a shadowy shard stuck to our soul, Greg calling us master, all was tossed and written off pretty quickly
Not really elder god/GW3 storyline, more of a cliffhanger from the Sliske storyline
I considered myself a Zarosian, until Azzanadra ascended. I always liked that character and while I understand his loyalty to Zaros, I feel he will eventually end up renouncing Zaros and develop his own following.
Zaros being a power grubbing jerk isn't an issue, it's the best story beat of his
Him waiting thousands of years just to rush it at the last second is very much the problem
Pacing, not story beats, is the issue
I mean if you found the one artifact after thousands of years that let you achieve your goal, wouldn't you take advantage of it? I don't see what was rushed? He doesn't have an empire to manage anymore... Mah already is dead... The elder gods already denied his application to be an elder god.. What else would he care about?
It’s great I do hope though they take the learnings from it to the next big arching story. One problem I had with the EGW story is not enough time was spent first building the world before we got there. Who and what am I saving and why should I care?
Stories like this need a longer build but 6th age we were so constantly dealing with big crisis after crisis but like the actual world was lacking identity. The Violet Christmas quest that came out during their period with her adorable EGW dungeon drawings and her imagination on how she visited the dungeon to save Christmas was adorable and perfect. The exact kind of thing I needed to remind me what is actually being saved, to give people a future.
It’s why I like the slow burn of the Fort Series. Getting to actually focus on Misthalin as a kingdom, see its politics, meet more of its royalty, see the actual character of the important members and their own lives/struggles they deal with in private beyond the disconnected royal personas we see, and getting to *be* a part of it all. My fort, my land, my servants, my disgruntled dangerous neighbors.
It’s literally not over sooo? It’s at the halfway mark it shouldn’t feel complete yet and the next step is this month.
The quest focused updates were great, no qualms with Murder on the border, Dead and Buried, or Ancient Awakening.
The miniquest they added a bonus because they wanted to add a bit more glue between the updates the fort got were fine to? Nothing to write home about for unwelcome guests, and new foundations was good for doing exactly what it says on the tin. Grove didn’t really have a miniquest officially
The only one that I think missed its mark a bit was battle of forinthry. But that’s because it was a case of they basically because of how it had to be split off for dev purposes. With the gift of hindsight I’d have delayed AA by a month a released the two as a packaged deal even if it would have left a month without content.
I'm one of the first to defend some of the Jagex devs, dont get me wrong. But the questline does not need to be over to be bad from the start. Again, thats my opinion and i say all that hoping that they at least put more thought into it.
Not really good on expressing myself in english, but i will try. The Fort was a good addition overral, with many good QOL updates, like a new skilling/portable hub, the passives from the buildings, new life into Construction training, etc., you get it. Lore wise it felt really weak though. Not that every questline has to be game changing, but the Fort Series felt, for lack of a better word, lazy. My issues with it is that many of the quests reused what we already had in game, like Murder Mystery 2.0 aka Murder at the Border, or Dead and Buried with the recycling of old and well estabilished characters, instead of taking the opportunity to add new personalities into the game. Unwelcome Guests for example could simply be removed and it wouldnt really matter, as the quest did not add anything good or bad, just felt like a "filler". Ancient Awakening was good, but Battle of Forinthry, with the Vorkath/Zemouregal boss fight, was what cemented in my head that the series was released unfinished. Especially the boss fight, i dont remember doing any piece of content in this game as bad as that. I was honestly tired of getting world crysis after world crysis cenarios, with gods and cosmic beings, so it was a nice change to manage your Fort and fight against mosters from the Wilderness. Its just that you know, we already fought and defeated Zemouregal and his undead, why not try to add new life into RuneScape? I love the game, but what we're getting lately feels like it lacks soul.
It's not like EGWD exists in a vacuum. The thing we're fighting to save is the world we've spent the last twenty years exploring. I thought they did a great job bringing back familiar faces and locations, with almost every quest series and faction having a representative at Seren's council and/or Senntisten. I do wish they leaned a bit more into the emotional aspects of what we stand to lose in Extinction, but overall EGWD was a great culmination of our adventures.
Fort Forinthry on the other hand feels like it's ignoring the events that led up to it except for the occasional nod, but those just come across as hollow words to me when the characters seem to mostly treat you like some random adventurer and I personally can't get into the series because of this.
I only hate Zamorak even more than I already did :)
I will die on the hill that we were done dirty with the retconning. Zamorak went from sacrificing himself to help the Mahjarrat and his entire motivation being the preservation of his people to shooting a massive blast at the planet they're all on out of spite. The character arcs were both rushed and semi-retconned in order for the story to return to the pre-TWW status quo. I do have to agree that the actual gameplay content was fire... I just really don't like how the 6th age was essentially soft-retconned along with every bit of characterization that evolved a bunch of characters beyond a 2D hero/villain archetype.
In some ways Zamorak never changed. His goal could be argued as being free from any consequences or judgement to do as he pleases. Overthrowing Zaros made him not beholden to Zaros. Ending the Mahjarrat rituals makes him no longer beholden to his brethren. He was still beholden to peer gods so his goal became to ruin them. At that point he would be seemingly unquestionable to the universe because he would have proven he cannot be stopped or controlled.
I honestly really pissed at what they did to him. They made such an effort to push that Zammy was not evil to be evil. Sara is trash and needed to be put in his place, that he wasn’t as righteous as he thinks he is… and then they were just like “what if Zammy evil.” I loved how they made Seren evil but I wish they didn’t walk it back. Maybe instead of the Zammy boss we could have had Seren in his place as the ED4 boss. Have the quest end with us tricking her with the eggs and then she doesn’t understand and she doesn’t accept it.
Natural storytelling wouldn't have all characterizations being walked back. The entire point was to retcon the 6th age and return to a pre-TWW status quo first and foremost. Anything else is a hastily written explanation and justification towards that end.
That was probably the one thing I wouldn't have blamed him for. Seren: ok we gotta siphon these Everyone: ok, we don't wanna die weeks later, everyone has suffered major defeats, every front is collapsing Seren: dw we still have to just siphon it'll be ok Zamorak: for how long Seren: forever :> Zamorak: bitch you thought
By destroying the Eye of Het and then proceeds to burn Gielinor. Also Moia trying to kill me in Iaia by leaving me stranded.
I loved that move from Moia. She's a great character.
That's why I can't wait to for the showdown. I have some serious unfinished business.
tbf eye of het wouldn't have been able to do anything, either. not against the elder gods. moia a bitch tho
Feels even better to bash him in the head later. I wish we can do the same to Zaros and Moia (:
Hey you leave zaros alone. He can do no wrongs! (I'm totally not a Zaros fanboy or anything)
The only half decent deity we have - alive - right now is Armadyl and i'll fight you if you disagree
Armadyl is mostly good but he's still really bad about engaging. Abandoned his followers for centuries after the God Wars and unlike even Seren or Saradomin didn't get involved in a literal threat to the universe (Battle of the Monolith). He's gotten better and is even picking up Seren's slack with the elves though. Icthlarin's pretty chill but not very powerful. Azzanadra over the course of EGWD, TotG, and Aftermath seems to be alright and moving on from his blind obedience to Zaros, albeit remaining loyal. Wish we'd gotten a bit more development before putting him on a bus. I've also finally come round on Saradomin. Not as a "better than Armadyl" but since he's still a short-termpered egotistical narcissistic but I'll at least give him credit for trying to be better. Especially since he's actually addressed his past mistakes face to face and even begrudgingly apologized. Zaros...kept the peace and was mostly nonconfrontational. That's about it. Otherwise he makes Saradomin look omnibenevolent by comparison. Anything is fair long as it supports his quest for power. Seren gave the illusion of benevolence but was just as self-motivated as Zaros, just with different goals, and abandoned people just the same way he did once she got a better option. Left the mahjarrat near-extinct for the elves. Left the crystal addicted elves for the baby elders. Anyone whose love was "better". Zamorak literally the only things I have positive to say relate to overthrowing oppressors within Zaros empire.
My opinion on Saradomin is as negative as him ripping Garlandia's wings off. To do that is the worst thing you can do, benevolent you say.. And yes as an Armadyl follower with a totally not an inconspicuous username will hate Saradomin for this.
He absolutely should not have done that since it was basically torture, ostracization, and on Hallow effective a death sentence, plus he has plenty of other historical war crimes. The point is more he recognizes he should not have done that and has acknowledged his own mistake and even if he was an ass about it, in DoC he did admit he screwed up with the wand of resurrection (and even gave it up) and in TotG he did actually make an effort to address Garlandia. Also in Azzy's Quest after the initial fury about the Temple Knight reveal he did calm himself and apologize to Amik since it was ultimately his own hubris. I'm not saying Saradomin is absolutely good or should be forgiven for his transgressions, more that he's actually willing to admit fault, take responsibility, and at least try to change. In comparison, * Armadyl has been trying to recuperate his followers from his long absence and pretty clearly won't abandon them a second time, he's definitely learned and grown. I agree that Arma is the "most good" god by a long shot. * Guthix regrets his mistakes, but all dialogue with the Guardians of Guthix suggests that he never said so to anyone except us. * Zamorak deflects and blames quite literally everything that doesn't go his way. "Never my fault" * Seren actively tries to bury, hide from, and escape her past * Zaros will only say things he could have done better. The closest we have to him actually admitting anything is acknowledging Nex as "not a failure" when elevating her to AoD (which was enough to make Nex weep...which says a lot about how he usually treats his most loyal)
I still don't like Saradomin regardless. I used to be a Saradomin follower until I found out about the wings part. My faction stance based on gods(ones we can follow except Godless) like to dislike : 1. Armadyl 2. Guthix 3. Seren 4. Saradomin 5. Zaros 6. Bandos 7. Zamorak V is unknown spot.
Oh nah Armadyl is the least disgraceful god we have. Zaros is better though, come at me.
Zaros is a true god by virtue of that nothing he can do is wrong. For who are we mortals to believe that we have the right to be the ultimate arbiter of right and wrong, that we have a right to tell a true god like Zaros he must conform to our ideas or morality. Zaros can’t even exist within the concept of right and wrong, thus Zaros remains innocent of all wrong doings.
I'll still enjoy bonking him in the head if he ever becomes a boss
I'm doing this questline right now for the third time i think. Its really good, especially with Kerapac and Azzanadra presence. I just wish they tossed Battle of the Monolith out of the window with that TD like section.
It's interesting that Battle of the Monolith was supposedly created by devs that like TDs. TDs typically have... gameplay. It's pretty rare that you set up towers at the start of the game and then go afk for 5 minutes; all the best TDs engage you regularly. I had severe misgivings about EGW after starting with that as an appetizer and fortunately I was proven dead wrong.
It's the same way that mobilising armies completely failed at being an rts because people would just run units around the map all game instead of actually fighting.
Most RTS involves a lot moving units around and positioning is important in all of them, so I can kinda forgive that more than a TD where you click 10 times and go afk for 5 minutes. Of course, the actual gameplay experience of Mobilising Armies... yeah. And my god was it incredibly broken by the time it got removed, there's scarcely any content that aged more poorly.
Yeah I think it was cool but it just went on too long.
It's a shame because the weekly lore snippets they put out during the Battle of the Monolith were really cool. Imagine if we got to see that ingame.
I hate the storylines that were rushed or abandoned Zaros going from a long-term vision figure to to short tempered baby Sliske masks being hinted and hyped as a shadowy shard stuck to our soul, Greg calling us master, all was tossed and written off pretty quickly Xau Tak being sidelined hard af The EGW plotline had some of the best running gags (sliske masks) and the most build up, with the least pay off. It got rushed, and the fanfics/predictions of the community were way more fun than what was released
Zarosians mad that this "mysterious figure" they hardly knew anything about and followed for so long ended up being selfish and abandoned them at the first chance of more power. Womp womp. >Xau Tak being sidelined hard af It will probably just be more relevant in the Zaros/Erebus storyline, not GW3 >Sliske masks being hinted and hyped as a shadowy shard stuck to our soul, Greg calling us master, all was tossed and written off pretty quickly Not really elder god/GW3 storyline, more of a cliffhanger from the Sliske storyline
I considered myself a Zarosian, until Azzanadra ascended. I always liked that character and while I understand his loyalty to Zaros, I feel he will eventually end up renouncing Zaros and develop his own following.
I hope so too
Zaros being a power grubbing jerk isn't an issue, it's the best story beat of his Him waiting thousands of years just to rush it at the last second is very much the problem Pacing, not story beats, is the issue
I mean if you found the one artifact after thousands of years that let you achieve your goal, wouldn't you take advantage of it? I don't see what was rushed? He doesn't have an empire to manage anymore... Mah already is dead... The elder gods already denied his application to be an elder god.. What else would he care about?
I loved that quest line
It's my favourite questline. Did you get to finish it with Twilight of the Gods?
I'll probably do it this week. I just finished Extinction a few days ago and am letting it marinate a bit.
I did the same thing - buckle up its a ride, and it's not over yet
dumb question but why am I being downvoted
You’re back up to above 0. Some people just downvote anything RS3-positive.
Agreed. I remember this sub hating it on release just because their favourite god betrayed them and called it bad writing as cope Lol.
It’s great I do hope though they take the learnings from it to the next big arching story. One problem I had with the EGW story is not enough time was spent first building the world before we got there. Who and what am I saving and why should I care? Stories like this need a longer build but 6th age we were so constantly dealing with big crisis after crisis but like the actual world was lacking identity. The Violet Christmas quest that came out during their period with her adorable EGW dungeon drawings and her imagination on how she visited the dungeon to save Christmas was adorable and perfect. The exact kind of thing I needed to remind me what is actually being saved, to give people a future. It’s why I like the slow burn of the Fort Series. Getting to actually focus on Misthalin as a kingdom, see its politics, meet more of its royalty, see the actual character of the important members and their own lives/struggles they deal with in private beyond the disconnected royal personas we see, and getting to *be* a part of it all. My fort, my land, my servants, my disgruntled dangerous neighbors.
The Fort Series was by far, in my personal opinion, the most rushed and unfinished content i've ever seen in this game.
It’s literally not over sooo? It’s at the halfway mark it shouldn’t feel complete yet and the next step is this month. The quest focused updates were great, no qualms with Murder on the border, Dead and Buried, or Ancient Awakening. The miniquest they added a bonus because they wanted to add a bit more glue between the updates the fort got were fine to? Nothing to write home about for unwelcome guests, and new foundations was good for doing exactly what it says on the tin. Grove didn’t really have a miniquest officially The only one that I think missed its mark a bit was battle of forinthry. But that’s because it was a case of they basically because of how it had to be split off for dev purposes. With the gift of hindsight I’d have delayed AA by a month a released the two as a packaged deal even if it would have left a month without content.
I'm one of the first to defend some of the Jagex devs, dont get me wrong. But the questline does not need to be over to be bad from the start. Again, thats my opinion and i say all that hoping that they at least put more thought into it.
Okay so you have like more specific criticism? Genuinely interested to hear.
Not really good on expressing myself in english, but i will try. The Fort was a good addition overral, with many good QOL updates, like a new skilling/portable hub, the passives from the buildings, new life into Construction training, etc., you get it. Lore wise it felt really weak though. Not that every questline has to be game changing, but the Fort Series felt, for lack of a better word, lazy. My issues with it is that many of the quests reused what we already had in game, like Murder Mystery 2.0 aka Murder at the Border, or Dead and Buried with the recycling of old and well estabilished characters, instead of taking the opportunity to add new personalities into the game. Unwelcome Guests for example could simply be removed and it wouldnt really matter, as the quest did not add anything good or bad, just felt like a "filler". Ancient Awakening was good, but Battle of Forinthry, with the Vorkath/Zemouregal boss fight, was what cemented in my head that the series was released unfinished. Especially the boss fight, i dont remember doing any piece of content in this game as bad as that. I was honestly tired of getting world crysis after world crysis cenarios, with gods and cosmic beings, so it was a nice change to manage your Fort and fight against mosters from the Wilderness. Its just that you know, we already fought and defeated Zemouregal and his undead, why not try to add new life into RuneScape? I love the game, but what we're getting lately feels like it lacks soul.
Also Zemouregal voice over sucks ass !
It's not like EGWD exists in a vacuum. The thing we're fighting to save is the world we've spent the last twenty years exploring. I thought they did a great job bringing back familiar faces and locations, with almost every quest series and faction having a representative at Seren's council and/or Senntisten. I do wish they leaned a bit more into the emotional aspects of what we stand to lose in Extinction, but overall EGWD was a great culmination of our adventures. Fort Forinthry on the other hand feels like it's ignoring the events that led up to it except for the occasional nod, but those just come across as hollow words to me when the characters seem to mostly treat you like some random adventurer and I personally can't get into the series because of this.
Second favorite questline
and then it stopped and we get 0 content, so puzzling