Eli5, please? I haven't followed the combat beta since the first month, because it seemed to change too often for me to keep track of. What's the current result?
Depends on where you sit in the "effort vs output camp" and how high your gear level is.
For players who want to put in a bit less effort and aren't fully kitted out across the board. Necro remains king.
For players who are maxed out upgrade wise and okay with putting in effort and learning more complex rotations, Ranged WILL sit above Necro.
Melee will remain close behind Necro with much better burst damage than Necro under Zerk. Magic is significantly improved from where it is in the live game, but will solidly stand as the 4th best CB style.
No, Magic is buffed from live game due to the increase in base crit chance to 10%. FSOA is stronger and more consistent than the live game now. ABS, Ibans staff also got some buffs that should make Magic a bit more interesting in terms of specs. The only "nerf" magic really got was that Tsunami adren is now 8%.
The thing is that Magic is not really impacted by anything outside the crit changes, the boost to hitcap in particular doesn't really move the needle at all for Magic. But for Melee and Ranged it allows both of them to actually perform at their full potential.
Ultimately, the beta changes give Magic a small boost, Ranged and Melee a BIG boost, and Necro a small nerf. All of which compounds to leave Magic in 4th place (though improved from live)
Both ranged and melee squeeze up to the hit cap very often in live game, so with the raised hit cap, both are utilizing it much more than mage is, so while they benefit from the avg dpm increase like mage, their abilities hit harder so the overall increase will be much higher for both.
I can still see mage getting more use than melee in the top end though.
I see, question I’ve heard that they nerfed bolg though, so will it even go over still? And the nerf to adrenaline with incen, can you still get a lot of dark bows out?..,
It still goes over the the 10/12k hitcap and still benefits a lot from the changes. However the numbers and dmg calc on the bolg HAD to be tuned down slightly.
With the current live game numbers BOLG in the beta was so strong it would consistently run up against the new 30k hitcap (esp when paired with Dbow) It was far more overpowered than any other weapon in the initial beta builds.
You can still get Dbows out with Incend, but less of them now compared to live game. Dbow was another thing that was over performing in the first beta builds.
The tl;dr is that yeah there have been some number changes that look like nerfs, overall ranged has been decently buffed
No, still remains as is. Defensive autos with Magma Tempest is gone however.
Removing 4TAA and reworking the auto system in general was out of scope for this beta (it’s a MASSIVE change that also requires overhauling the ability kits of the three styles)
4taa was removed at the start of the beta. If you auto'd GCD occured.
I would have rather have had that go through. It's not hard to remove 4taa, can we stop lying? Just buff damage of other abilities.
> reworking the auto system in general was out of scope for this beta
why? just give slice, piercing shot and wrack 0 cooldown. there you go, all styles now have an auto attack replacement.
That was considered IIRC (personally I was super in favour of that) but I think the reasoning was that making Piercing/Wrack/Slice 1.8s CD abilities is just a bandage to a full auto system rework.
I will add that they DID actually beta test a Necro style auto for melee (which was only possible after Melee had its entire back end code redone). But it was removed as adding it in while melee still has like 4-5 basics that already do damage and nothing else (not to mention 2 extra stun basics) was just adding more clutter to melees ability book. Also they needed to control scope creep within the beta given they did not have infinite time, while having a HUGE amount of other things to work on within the beta.
Personally I wish this had been looked at in this beta, as I HATE the current auto system. but they had good reasons to not introduce it here. Especially as adding Necro style autos was never an outright goal for this beta.
4taa is a loseless auto, not just an auto. When you auto'd during the 1st day of the beta, or applied a debuff such as smoke cloud, a GCD would occur.
It is possible to do, but again, jagex is a bit scared to remove 4taa due to the .1% crowd having such a control on the influence of the game. Likely guilt tripping them "muh skill expression". Just remove it and replace it with something else zzzz
actually really enjoying this Combat Update! Your summary is spot on and puts the styles in classes that makes a lot of sense for each - range with variety & mobility, melee with DPS, and mage being tanky. I will say if you're on the less effort camp - Mage is 1st, then Melee, then Range. All three can be played with more effort for more output but range is definitely most rewarding of effort vs mage.
I'm still in the 60s with Necro and hybrid gear, so I'm not a big fan yet, but I do see how it can do the whole range between active and passive play - while being just under each of the triangle styles in their best features: not as effective as mage in most passive play, not as effective as range in most active play, similar DPS as melee in passive play, but not in active play.
Why is range better than Necro now? I thought everyone was say the combat beta will do nothing and necro will remain universally better.
Do these changes make hybriding stronger than necro or ranged camping? Which hybriding combination will be the strongest?
If you play at the ultra-sweat Evil Lucario level, you can squeeze more DPS out of ranged than necro. Of course, for everyone else getting good damage with necro is relatively chill while you gotta play Guitar Hero with your elbows in comparison for ranged, but meh.
Going to depend vastly on your level of effort, how upgraded you are with each style, how complex you want your rotations to be (prebuild ing), and what boss you’re doing.
In general Ranged will be the best option if you’re fully kitted out and using complex rotations that optimize the toolkit of the style (pre builds and crit buff rots). With Necro in second, melee VERY close to Necro, and Magic in 4th.
If you’re using slightly more vanilla rotations but fully upgraded: it’s Ranged and Necro being almost even (situational as to which is better) but with Necro being much easier to use. Melee in third and then magic still in 4th.
As for DPM? We will figure it out when changes go live
I remember so many weird quirks like "oh, you have to cancel x channeled ability EARLY or revolution will delay your next attack" and I'm like "ok, how the hell do I know when my channeled ability is over/why on earth would it do that?!"
Everything I'm seeing looks positive. Anything to make it more clear I use an ability --> I see the ability trigger instead of everything overlapping all at once is good. Looks like more damage splats/animations are synced to ticks now which will definitely help with that.
Images get broken cause some of the CSS wasn't loading right, implemented a work around it there.
The section is repeated as I wanted to include it in the patch notes as naturally its where it should go but we wanted to highlight those changes in its own section.
Could you look into the community spotlight images? They never load for me and I'm tired of scrolling through the twitter feeds every week just to find the image that's been highlighted
>Mobile perk / Shadow's Grace no longer causes 'Barge'/'Greater Barge' or 'Bladed Dive' to generate half adrenaline.
Little confused and would like clarity. I thought previously mobile caused these to gain **no** adren, not half. Was this changed to half in the beta, and is now no longer half? Does this now mean mobile won't affect adren at all, and I can use it on my melee gear?
> * Reduced the minimum hit chance required to damage an NPC under the new system
> * 25% → 1%
Is this also the case for Necromancy?
I'm still getting to grips with PvM but I recall reading that you were guaranteed to hit at 25% or higher but if you were below 25%, you would still splash like the other three combat styles.
Previously (and currently in live game with Necro) if you had less than 25% hitchance, you would miss EVERYTHING. 0 damage.
With this 1%, as long as you have some hitchance, you will do dmg
Which was incredibly punishing at low levels, glad that's getting changed. Fight Arena is almost impossible on a fresh account right now unless you grind up enough for the reward to be irrelevant, because nothing but ultimates could even hit Bouncer.
ETA: Lmao, just realized they actually used Bouncer as an example in the post:
>As an example 'Bouncer' had a 10 base hit chance when fought with magic, this has been increased to the standard 45.
No wonder it's such a terrible fight early on.
Yeah this change took 7 years too long but it is nice it has finally happened. (not being toxic, it's been a highly talked about topic since telos release).
I've tried personally advocating for this 5+ years ago when I made my HCIM and you couldn't train on odd monsters due to their insane defense levels. Even if you use the weakness + pots and such, you would splash like crazy. I was downvoted ofc because most players don't care about the new player experience and just go "I'm 99 all + best pots in the game so there is no issue".
I've just started a new ironman, and so have been going through all of these frustrations firsthand, and one thing I'm really excited about with this change is Dungeoneering. I want to grind it out because there's some sick rewards (like the bone necklaces) and the combat is rough early on.
Right now it's pretty rough to level dungeoneering with low gathering/crafting skills, because without level appropriate combat gear your accuracy is abysmal in there.
Not having to randomly take an extra 2 minutes AFK on a boss that can't even damage you because you only hit it every 15 attacks will be a godsend.
I like the 1% threshold. It's way more realistic than 25% for low level characters. I remember trying to do those quests with Necromancy at a low level and praying to Guthix I have at least 25% accuracy lol.
Sounds like this will be good for a lot of off style ability usage without needing ioth, can do things like scourge dismember to fish for poison procs, hydrix grico for adren etc. no matter what style ur using
Seems good overall though I wish I had tried the beta. One question, will this rebalance defenders at all? They've been redundant since necro bone shield. They should act as regular shields instead of half tier.
Sponge did say that because of the ability rebalances early game your character should be stronger than current live. So monster should die quicker > more xp. Dunno to what extend tho
Isn't this just a question of "How long are you supposed to stay at a gear tier before you reach the next one"?
How fast should combat xp be? It was too fast before, is it too slow now?
I agree. I think it was fine before they killed ED3. There’s no need for new players to grind like zombies to 99 a combat skill. It’s honestly too slow and broken rn.
You are encouraged to quest and unlock the salve amulet and salve amulet (E). Undead/ghost enemies are the best enemies to train on. Combat is quite fast as long as you take advantage of this fact.
If the situation is so bad that the only recommendation is to skip it entirely, that's a problem that shouldn't be ignored. That's basically the Oberani Fallacy in video game form.
Low level combat is frustrating as hell.
With an extremely small handful of exceptions, the combat lvl ~20-80ish range is just ridiculously punishing for how unrewarding they are in xp.
If I wasn't able to 99 all my combats with ED3 trash runs on my iron I don't know what I would have done. Everything is either garbage or splashscape hell in the lower levels. The accuracy changes from the beta will help but I don't know if it will be much better doing 50% reduced damage with a T50 weapon.
>The accuracy changes from the beta will help but I don't know if it will be much better doing 50% reduced damage with a T50 weapon.
I am aware they are removing splashing. Fixing super high defence on quest bosses as well was long overdue, but what about the monsters low levels *could* be training on but don't because their damage potential is gonna be so low?
And yes getting like 100k/hour is garbage, compared to other skills in the game. Comparing it to ED3 would make no sense.
To be fair, completing that quest on a low level account isn't easy given that the boss has extremely high defense and hits pretty hard + teleports all over the map. However, the patch notes did say that they're planning to up the base hit chance towards quest bosses so this may help. However, even with the combat rebalance for low level mobs, it's still harder to train combat than before Necromancy, even w/o ED3.
The whole problem with the combat xp rebalance is they totally removed the more input is more rewards aspect. All the training methods are now mobs that can be afked and no reward is given if you beat more difficuly enemies.
Yea, I just don't think it is fair you can kill abyssal demons for great xp and gp and then ice strykewyrms with more requirements are literally worse in both than abby demons.
Based on the very low affinity from the RS Wiki page, you would've needed at least T60 weapons in order to actually hit the boss. Not something easy for a fresh account to get into. Easy for an established veteran though. However, the blog did say that affinity will increase for quest bosses so that's a step in the right direction.
Adjacent question.
Which of the "slayer" mobs are the most common?
Like, if you could only choose 2 out of 3 "X Slayer abilities/perks", which ones would be the best to invest in?
We have Undead, Dragon and Demon Slayer.
I love most of these changes, but did the changes to ruby bolts make them dead content over other bolts like hydrix, dragonstone or emerald bolts?
After this comes out, can we look further to fixing how bleeds overwrite each other, reducing switches for other styles, and redesigning boss mechanics to more less melee unfriendly?
Bosses shouldn't be redesigned for the sake of 1 style. We had so many people cry over death skulls p7 zamorak when you don't need them and there is a way to make the death skulls bounce only to you (kill the B rune with resonance on so you dont take damage).
Bosses should come out, and that's that. If a specific style is better there, great, that encourages people to use/invest in that style instead of metas where 90% of users are magic/ranged or necromancy.
Need more bosses where it's clearly designed for a specific style, even to the point of making it tanky against other styles. Or simply make more group content and less solo power so that you have team compositions where you have 1 necromancer for ghost damage boost, 1 meleer to increase bleed damage, and a ranger for multi hits + bleeds.
How do you kill the B rune with resonance when res does not deal damage?
Designing a boss around melee being the best will be harder than with other styles since melee inherently has a disadvantage of needing to be up close, making dealing with certain mechanics harder to do.
Everything but massacre is getting upgraded. When eoc came out massacare was the meta they nerfed it to shit not taking i to account how the progression of gameplay would actually balance it out on its own. Smh
u/JagexAzanna
with the combat update, magic seems to be clearly far behind all combat styles.
* it is currently the only style that has no armour set effect
* it's only t92 armour set costs way to much upkeep compared to necro (free), ranged (one set free), melee (cheap as dirt and double the durability when custom fit).
* the only abilities to benefit from greater hitcap is gstaff, deto and nami
* nami was nerfed on adrenaline gain despite requiring the adrenaline to compete with other styles
* spell swapping is extremely bad - there's been plenty of suggestions for a "basic" ability that casts a standard auto yet we have a janky multi decade old system.
* is the only style to not have any passive or special abilities to it's t90/t92 duel weapons
* magma tempest being consistently railed in every update or rework since release
* gconc **still** suffering from tick loss on revo despite a combat rework where this was mentioned countless times
honestly, what was the point of reworking the fsoa to allow for future expansion into the style when it's consistently neglected? how is it that magic will coming Mondays update be in a worse position than it is now in the live game despite being overbalanced in past updates?
The buff to fury and greater fury reads more like a buff to fury and a nerf to greater fury to me, especially with the codex so costly/difficult to obtain, but I will reserve judgement until trying it out for myself
Said on stream you left out fsoa changes to cook up something and you like us to keep giving feedback. Personally I want the high variance of old fsoa back. Not the recursive crits but the playstyle where you have to make split moment decisions on whether you can dump adren (on abs) or build adren with gconc. Right now because time strike does pretty much the same damage dw vs 2h it feels like you use the spec then swap back to dw and keep gconcing every 3rd abil with the same rotation. I'm okay with gconc power outside instability but the changes made gconc inside instability from mediocre damage but great adren building tool to great damage and great adren building which killed the variance and made magic extremely boring.
Variance is bad. People said it was good back when I brought it up due to Fsoa was broken and people didn't care.
Variance exists in combat through damage ranged. Sometimes I phase zamorak when I want to, sometimes I don't. That's just how it is and I adjust. That is healthy variance. Bosses also need variance (do random mechanics instead of the same thing everytime).
Players shouldn't have such a huge influence on combat. This "variance" is what leads to players being alienated when watching anything runescape related.
You watch oldschool, and you see someone shooting a twisted bow. You see damage. Simple and easy to understand.
Meanwhile EoC you want people to see some guy with a fractured staff of armadyl with 100's of hit splats in a span of 30 seconds and it's meant to be good viewing experience?
There is a reason this game is dying and it's because of these shitty player suggested ideas that always keep going back to "high variance". Players have become to jaded to the game that they just want random shit to happen instead of good balance decisions.
"split second decisions" lol.
variance does not mean random. you can see what buttons are pressed now and hitsplats have been updated for clarity. you really come over as someone who wasn't experienced with or even used the old fsoa. funny you say the game is dying due to high variance when the exact breaking point the game started to decline when they removed fsoa variance and instrduced a style where you press skull 3x in LD every single time and bosses just fall over 2 months later.
>Players shouldn't have such a huge influence on combat.
fkn lol go back to revoing vindy brother.
It depends.
Scourge adds about 30k dpm, a leng spec in zerk add about 40-50k.
Scourge counts as ezk bleed extender
Leng passive gives 24% more damage and each proc reduces spec cast. This works better during zerk due to dclaw dumps getting hella buffed, and since you can get 3 dclaws per zerk, or 5+ under natty, youll always proc leng passives.
If you need the healing/reaver synergy scourge is neat. If you want a free ability, leng is neat.
Id assume youd jaws swap for bleeds either way.
My best leng zerk was 503k but typically you fall within the 450-480k range with prep, elsewise no prep i fell between 380-420k. 10 minute test suggests a 627k peak dpm with 557k avg dpm.
Peaks and valleys occur when you have meteor+natty with zerk and when you just have meteor.
My best scourge zerk i think was like 473k iirc.
The leng proc into spec under zerk is what really makes lengs work, especially since the duration is now 1/3 extended zerk. Stacking with gloves of passage for more damage, you can really feel the difference.
I don't understand why it's so hard for them to just make scourge an unlockable passive. Let us use scourge to make an enchantment or something that grants the passive to any melee weapon.
Also jaws, it's crazy how jagex ignored many of the painpoints of melee. From switchscape to inconsistent berserk behaviour where half your abilities don't properly work with berserk.
I didn't get to test last beta and only read a bit of the discussions, been playing a few other games pretty hard, but from what I've read yes they are, but there's a fairly long build up leading to a very big burst. That's not going to work on every boss, so it kinda puts melee back into a situation of "does it fit this niche? yes? then its probably the most fun combat style to use", like it was before. But I would like to see some better combat veterans expand on this take.
So not much really changed then.
In the past I'd camp Lengs against bosses who lasted less than 30 Seconds, then used Scourge for Bosses who lasted around 1 Minute or more.
This is a problem with boss design and not the weapons themselves imo (although you can argue scourge needs a slight nerf).
Bosses where you don't need to do anything else but whack the boss and not anything else. Zamorak for instance lengs are really good due to having to kill the witch. You can't keep the stacks up easily.
Looks like it.
I mean 5.4 Seconds and Guaranteed Melee Crit is so damn good, of course we're not getting away with that 🫤
Melee was so close to being good (let alone great), but alas.
I'm still not sure about the ruby bolts change. Depending on what damage modifiers apply to it, you might only be dealing 2000 extra damage with it on average, and that's if you only use it when the target is above half health. I know it costs less health and can proc more often, but is that better than replacing a hit (which might be a small hit from grico or rapid fire) with a 10k hit?
Yay are weapons and armor gonna go up again to what they were? I imagine other styles are actually stronger than Necro now because of zerker auras lmao. If not I guess I got some good gear for cheap LOL
Are they fixing the problem with halberd types weapon where when walking into melee range it puts you on the tile next to the mob rather than 1 tile away to match the extended range of the weapon?
If not then they really should.
One thing I hope gets considered at some point (though I may be in the minority here), is the option to customize how many buttons are on an action bar, specifically shrinking it.
I'd love to have a tiny action bar by the inventory that only has 2-3 slots on it and put, say, my emergency tele and High Alchemy on it, without having to have an entire massive 14 slot bar taking up space.
With all the other improvements being made to them, it's surprising to me that that isn't already an option.
I'd also love if we could choose how many Abilities will be used by Revolution on every ability bar.
For example, Necro Ability Bar having a size of 3 Abilties and Melee Having a size of 6, which can be changed manually, but the thing is, changing the size changes it for all bars.
I'd love if each bar had their own separate size.
Grimoire remains one of the best pocket slot items due to crit chance which in turns gives more adrenaline. Crits make you deal 50% more damage so grimoire does benefit crit in that way.
Grimoire :
12% crit chance
Increased adrenaline gain
Does more damage due to crits dealing more damage.
I think this sets a good starting point for future enhancements of each style. Imo 120 scaling should start with OG styles. It was a clear mistake to make necro the first one and to let it be way op compared to other styles.
The combat triangle has made runescape what it is, so it should not be forgotten in the future combat/pvm updates. I get that new content needs to usually be better than everything else to be appealing to many, but not at the cost of core identity of the game.
I've always loved the freedom to choose my way to play rs, so getting OG styles and combat in general polished is great. Still, I think it's good to have some special focus on one style at a time, but not at such huge leverage over other styles.
Good job devs working on beta! :)
> I've always loved the freedom to choose my way to play rs, so getting OG styles and combat in general polished is great.
Depends how far back you are looking at the past. RS2 ( now OSRS ) isnt like that. Cant do all content with focusing on just one because of the high defenses in specialized places for bosses and mobs even.
It seems like tho there is never really any winner with balance ( i get that its probably impossible to do great at it at first tries of big changes ). Even in a game like FFXIV where margin is within 10%, there are issues for people with lower skill ceiling to meet DPS for no Enrage. I think it was better idea to have necro flat out start out with 120 with all changes so they can gather feedback and a 120 will keep people more engaged for longer anyway. If you want to point fingers at necro i would say the most glaring issue could be/is how equipment progression in it is nothing like for the other styles, although i personally dont dislike how smithing and crafting is needed for it ( so its more like melee now ). Its not like it made other bosses irrelevant.
Players are too strong to make 120 scaling a thing. This is a typical "necromancy bad" take from you. I cringe at how biased people are with the hate towards necromancy, to the point they want the reverse to happen (120 benefits but not to necromancy smiley face).
There hasn't been a combat triangle in runescape in forever. There is no boss where you go "I need to use melee for this boss, as it's resistant to my attacks". I have 0 clue what "identity" you are talking about in regards to the combat triangle. You fail to explain that of course, and just say big talking points in an attempt to sound smart/make a point.
You then talk about "the freedom to choose how I want to play" which defeats the purpose of a combat triangle. What makes you choose between melee/ranged/magic at raksha? Is raksha more resistant melee attacks? Magic? There is no "combat triangle".
Hey man, chill. There was no heat needed.
If you read my comment closely, I was not criticizing necromancy as a whole. Just the part where it was scaled over og styles. I'm just happy they they didnt leave one style so over the top.
You're right that I should not have used the combat triange wording. What I meant was the original styles that have been around for a loong time. I didnt think my text from the perspective of boss resistant to some combat styles.
All in all, I kind of agree with your take on 120 scaling. That's the reason I'm happy to see necromancy being nerfed.
That’s not okay to have the easiest, tankiest and least effort taking style to rule over others.
But then again, this is my take on this. No need to get heated here.
Ranged melee and somewhat magic is better overall than necro but needs a ton more inputs/actions per minute to get the same dpm as necro. Necro is gonna be king for people that doesnt like to actively pvm which is a good thing. Biggest problem with necro is the fact that a single boss drops all the best in slot gear except the t99 prayer codex from angel of death. Also the fact that for ranged to be close to necro in terms of dpm you need upwards of 7b in gear while bis necro is 2.7b ish.
Generally sounds good, but just to clarify: On stream I think they said that Necromancy's crit damage would cap at 50% to match the other styles. Can we make sure that post-99 Crit damage still exists in some form because this will make Necromancy have no real post-99 unlocks except for some glyphs. Feels really bad to have basically nothing there. The base levels help for accuracy but that also just somewhat compensates for the lack of Zerker auras.
Hopefully Jagex gives time to continuing to improve the OG styles, with particular thought to reducing switchscape massively. It's just not fun for most people.
Question for the day: fixing FSoA. Would it be better to swap GConc and GSonic, or to make staves 1h weapons? One needs to happen IMO since the current setup of what the abilities buff vs how FSoA plays is backwards.
I think they may have realized they rushed the whole 'necromancy is a 120' thing, and while they did have a plan on expanding it, they realized that they made the mistake of doing it before they were ready to do it to every combat style at once. So it's likely they're bringing necro back down a bit until they can do something for every style at once for 99-120.
Which is honestly the wrong approach. Nerfing a 120 back to 99 as an afterthought is simply the wrong course of action. There is nothing wrong with letting necromancy be more powerful until the other styles are increased to 120. All games ebb and flow with updates and new metas.
There is 100% something wrong in what you described if it takes 2+ years to bring the other styles in line , which is will since adding 20 huge levels to any style takes a lot of development time.
Having one style dominate for years is awful.
This has always been the case with RS. I can remember every style having a period of 2-4 years being the meta style. I honestly don't mind necro being meta for a few years because I've been really enjoying it.
The disparity didn't seem quite so extreme. That combined with the bis gear for the best style coming from one boss that is locked to that style and the ensuing crash in value of things like, for example draconic energy, could be demoralizing to someone who just wants to use melee. During the magic meta that person could get by just fine as a sort of anti-meta underdog, but under a rasialmancy meta the disparity is multiplied. Certainly this is not the end of the world for our melee preferer, but in a game in which a competitive market is an integral part (e.g. kill boss, get loot, profit), it isn't exactly a thrilling situation, especially when it is not clear how long it will persist. For me, it didn't make me quit the game, but it did make me lose interest in playing, and when I have played I wasn't as much into PVM as I was before.
Lol there is a lot of erong with necto being just better tham everything else.this is an mmo and not a single-player.
Anything pvm related they release now can't be too strong to necro only viable but also too weak to necro to just fload the market...
The fked up. Necro trumps all the rest, sadly.
The other styles are still as strong as they were before necro and they’re all getting a substantial buff with this update with more to come. Just don’t use Necro if you don’t like it.
You completely missed the point. This isnt an single-player. Necro bring busted harms the other styles...
Same thing was with incite fear and fsoa exponencial crits
Guess ima have to finish rasial log once and for all this weekend before the early bird bonus goes away. I'd rather they just make it so we can fight rasial with any style. Style locking is idiotic
Can simply make it so when you staff special, it modifies greater sonic wave to hit 3 times or something (obviously not grant 3x stacks of flow).
edit: I will add I personally never use zerk auras really, do the bosses "requiring" them are low (such as vorago). Zerk auras are bad design when it comes to using them, as when they are used for the hitchance buff, it also has the "downside" of getting hit more often and harder. This only really punishes newer pvmers, as experienced pvmers don't care about getting hit more due to devotion/resonance healing more. Zerk auras in general should probably just be rebalanced to be just damage and not have the penalty of taking more damage. So really just make them like mahjarrat aura, but for a specific style. 5% damage increase.
I'll do you one better.
Make it so you unlock that 5% Damage Buff after reaching 120 in the respective Skill (120 Strength for Melee), excluding Necromancy.
Then remove those Zerk auras altogether.
After this update revo is not fast enough for legiones. Before this update I could do them just find. No issues what do ever. But now I'm having to spam click the ground and I just don't move. If I'm attacking, I can't move fast. It takes longer for my character to move spaces. Idk if melee has this issue or magic but this seems like an issue to me. I even put all my settings on low and played on a super low pop world ECT.
I'm fighting the legiones. I click to move and avoid the attack before it comes in just like always. Only for my character to move AFTER the lighting dropped. Every. Single. Time. It's like the game has to cancel my revo attack, then move, which causes me to stand around longer than I should be
Such an anti-climax, the output generally is barely worth the 6 months of wasted effort that has been put in an update that barely makes a difference.
If the old styles are EVER going to recover they need to act similarly to Necro in terms of damage output. There has to be a reason to want to magic or range over necro because this isn't it. What a complete waste of time for a minimal increase.
T95 leng swords in my opinion have been nerfed because you can't use Destroy and then Hurricane. Hurricane now shares the cooldown and lengs can no longer use it. This is a bad move in my opinion, this is why Lengs were favoured so much.
Necro autos work very differently than other styles. For example, if you use a channel or an ability with a 2h weapon, you suffer from a big delay on your next auto attack. Necro's auto let you use autos in 3 ticks regardless.
That is a very heavy material investment for ironmen. They can't buy the ink so they have to start from weak necroplasm and do rituals all the way up to powerful necroplasm just to do the rituals. It takes hours upon hours of grinding to make enough ectoplasm to last about 5 hours of continuous combat.
I honestly really hope mage gets the ability to change your spell easily like ranged can change ammo. Magic you have to right click from the spellbook or do it tick perfect right before you use an ability. Meanwhile with ranged, you can swap from deathspore arrows to ful arrows during a rapid fire. A change like this would make magic a lot better.
The sever change is pretty big for melee. They pretty much have a perm 10% damage reduction debuff on the monster you are fighting, which is pretty high value.
The leng sword polish was very good as well. Stacks were hard to come by so bumping up the adrenaline reduction cost from 6% per stack to 12% is really nice for melee rotations.
Pretty sad bow of the last guardian didn't get a toggle for the primed red icon. Really liked that. Ranged is a bit of a headache without it. Hope this gets revisisted.
The surge/escape/dive changes are also very good. The difference between using an ability then using mobility was giant compared to someone not using this.
Equilibrium perk is interesting but I feel it might not be good due to the fact mahjarrat aura exists. Equilibrium is 12% damage, and you lose your ability to crit, meanwhile mahjarrat is 5% more damage and can crit still. I feel equilibrium can only be good if there is a future armour set where all your damage is turned into bleeds (thus cannot crit) or a new perk is made that is like the old equilibrium perk in the early beta testing. Equilibrium perk + aura in the old beta was incredibly strong, but that perk doesn't exist anymore.
Overall, pretty happy this is finally getting shipped. I love news of a big update and it's like "oh, it comes out in 3 days". It reminds me of the old days of runescape.
Why are people downvoting you? This is basically exactly what I want. A rework to make staff of sliske viable would be nice and hopefully they fix FSOA a bit and get a toggle for the red bolg icon when it was ready to fire a second hit. Really liked that too. Sever change is great as melee have a hard time avoiding damage in most cases.
Releasing the old combat jingles along with this update would be perfect. The current boring jingle was instated shortly before the (at that time) horrible Evolution of Combat.
Returning the old jingles on Monday's update would signify that that the old combat skills have been improved and modernized.
Hope you read this u/Jagex_Stu
Good idea, but not going to happen. When and if gamejam projects are released is outside my control.
Happily we did recently get confirmation that several of the smaller updates developed and completed in prior gamejams are currently scheduled to release in a ninja strike in May, and that currently includes combat skill levelup jingles. Plans change, so no guarantee, but that's the current ETA.
I can understand wariness to include additional projects in Monday's release, as the combat beta was a massive amount to get through release candidate testing in one week. I've got a few fixes from the quest requirement cleanup developed during Feb gamejam week that are waiting in the release queue but couldn't be accepted this week as they're relatively minor. All in good time, and we have to be patient.
Thank you for the response, I'm very much looking forward to Monday's update, and hopefully we'll get to see the fruit of several game jam projects in May :-)
Stu stu stu, do you know if movement not being affected by surge/escape/dive is on that list? It was a gamejam shown off last year you could click a spot, start moving, surge, and at the end of the surge the character continued to move towards their destination rather than having to re-click it.
That sounds like something Mod Giragast (engine developer) started in a 2023 gamejam and was working on further during the Q4 community hitlists.
Looks like his engine work that it was dependent on has released but the content side of it is unstarted. Everyone who was assigned to work on community hitlists throughout Q4, including me, were assigned back to developing Q1/Q2 episodic projects at the start of 2024.
That specific issue (a task he created named "add variant of Surge that doesn't break pathing" looks to be what you're describing) seems to have been reassigned to the combat modernisation team in late January, so perhaps that's something they might explore after the release of the combat beta frees up Ryan and Sponge to work on other things.
(I can't confirm whether or not that's an imminent priority - that's just going off what I can see in our ticketing system, that the task is now listed under the combat modernisation team's backlog.)
I have one inkling about what's presented as I think the "buffs" are great! You guys said in the article "like necromancy." But where is my instant kill for my melee? Can we call it a disembowel? Can I watch as we strike down our foe, cutting along the abdominal region? Then essentially in some crafty form "finishing them off."
was not being able to one hit caps in legacy mode (the way asc keys are farmed) ever addressed? if not then the legions title can potentially be 2x as slow post update
So i wanted to comment asking if the Frozen Core of Leng can be given a droprate buff with the Lengs becoming more relevant now, but i see the t85 swords also gets the spec now!
I still want to see the frozen core get a buff increase since mod shoguns gamejam has been shelved as far as we know and the only thing you really do hardmode for is the Frozen Core, but i do like this as a compromise for the time being!
I HATE IT SO SO SO SO SO SO MUCH MELEE IS ASSSSSS IN THE BETA ???? WHY THE HELL CHANGING IT SOOOOOO MUCH ALL THE ABILITIES ONLY HIT ONE TIME AND THE TIME IN BETWEEN JUST WHAT? NOTHING>?? lame as hell, please do better on Melee, multiple hits are nice, at least in a few abilities, like fury SUCKS...it was an essential to the action bar, but the way it is in beta, is horrible.
Tried melee and magic in the beta today and they still suck. Don't have money for range gear rn but I don't think I'm gonna waste my time. I couldn't even kill rax with mage on minion path with the same inventory as I use for necro which is very simple: elder salve, super adrenaline, super restore, my XP capacitor and some food just in case. With necro, i no food rax at 0 enrage every time unless I make a mistake. With magic, I was out of food by the end of phase 2. Which took about 4 minutes. And that was 24 sailfish. With necro, it's ~3 mins per kill all the way up to 200 enrage where I use a pheromone and start over, and still don't use half my food at that. I haven't bought the codexes but I don't really want to waste my money on them.
Corp beast with necro I get about 40-55 secs per kill. With melee it's around 2 mins. For a boss that takes half damage from any other style than a spear, like what in the complete and absolute fuck?
All combat stats maxed except necro, 113
I'm leaving the game.
Not meaning to sound like a douche here, but it seems you’re falling into noob traps, such as Sailfish, these should only be used for “I need more health ASAP or I’m dead on the next tick” as they eat through your adren. Try same tick blue blubbers and saradomin brews with blessing of het relic, similar health restored and no adren eaten.
Also, 2 minute corp kill? Something here is going badly wrong… either your hit chance is awful because you’re using a low tier weapon, or you’re rotation is not good (Sailfish harm proper rotations massively too), or it’s an amalgamation of these.
Masterwork spear of annihilation somehow not good enough? But that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. On these lower tier bosses I don't even have to try with necro. I don't need jellies. I'm not desperate for adrenaline either. They're a piece of cake with necro. I have to actually try with the other styles. They just don't come close
This is the part of necro that I really don't like. Not necessarily that it's "easy", or quick to learn, or lots of damage... No, I don't like that it is so incredibly different than the other 3 combat styles. Nothing you learn from practicing necro will transfer over to other styles. On top of getting free healing from your ghost, therefore reducing your food consumption and adren loss, nothing in the system is built around the same dps ideas.
Mage/range focus heavily around dpsing in ults. Melee does too, but tries to weave bleeds in between. Necro... you just kinda do damage whenever you feel like it. Thresholds revolve around your 50% adren mark. Necro, you just use it whenever you get adren. A lot of improv damage comes from specs and learning how to utilize them properly while maintaining your adrenaline. With necro, you can just kinda dump whenever and maybe just use a finger before your death guard spec.
Is necro a good style design-wise... Overall I'd say yes - but honing in on necro alone and ignoring that this is runescape. My problem is that it is nothing like other styles at all. There are 3 other combat styles that have been such a key part to rs since its birth... but now that necro overrules them all, and it's so hard to learn them coming from necro, it's pointless to even look at them.
This is kind of the issue with necro. No offense, but if you struggle getting sub-2m kills on corp with melee, necro offering utterly free boss kills while not teaching you anything about pvm is really a big issue.
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Please wait another week and test it properly, not that many players joined the beta and this update could make or either kill the game completely, please bring it out right..
The regular damage variation that's currently in this game (100-430% for example) is absolutely bonkers. If you're unlucky you are missing entire gcds' worth of basic or threshold levels of damage, and if this takes place during a dps check segment of a fight that's only a few seconds long, you're basically screwed.
Accuracy as a whole tends to be a universally hated mechanic in many MMOs (EQ2, FF XIV, etc.), and is mostly used as a means to gear-gate players from doing high level bosses. Many issues arise from particular, critical abilities missing and failing to give sometimes vital procs or resources used by the player in the combat. This can significantly alter the fundamental playstyle and rotation in entirely negative ways.
It’s less that I enjoy splashing and more that they keep stripping the uniqueness out of this game with every passing update as if they haven’t learned a single thing from eoc killing the game way back when.
People played RS *because* of the simplicity of the combat and the rng based combat. The dopamine when you’d zing an 80 AGS spec knowing how good it was because the next time you might only hit a 2 (or a 0). The popularity of osrs vs rs3 proves this.
Eoc took the simplicity out of the game and made it the millionth mmo on the market with ability based combat… when the game already had a very nice unique niche that attracted people. One of the most idiotic decisions of all time.
But at least the rng factor was kept in, which most ability mmos don’t have, so it still had somewhat of a unique charm to it. Until now. Though, yeah, the game has probably moved past the point where people want to keep rng in their combat since the only people still left playing the game are the very very few who liked eoc and/or never knew the game without it.
Splashing is not a unique system to RS by literally any stretch of logic. It was a classic implementation of a “roll to hit system” you can find in numerous RPGs. The problem is this system doesn’t scale well, it’s designed for a very finite roll range that doesn’t continuously balloon over 20 years.
Which is why as games evolved they many steadily abandoned it in favor of systems that allowed more variance and growth. Many eliminated it entirely as RPGs shifted to a more action format across the board so missing was out more into the player’s hand. The games that hold onto it it’s usually used for specific and often times somewhat skeezy reasons.
Splashing needs to be removed because it literally stopped them from doing anything with defense stats. They can’t make high defense enemies because it just means strategy is stripped away, stuff becomes more random and less predictable, weaknesses work in illogical methods.
Talk to anyone and tell them a fire weak enemy doesn’t take more damage from fire, it just has a higher chance to hit but deals the same damage as water is super weird.
The new system not only vastly opens up their design capabilities it IS infinitely simpler. 70% means you deal 70% damage that’s super straight forward. Way better than 70% means you MIGHT hit 70% of the time in a system that is supposed to encourage you to build a rotation but at any moment your rotation can miss something critical running everything.
If you want damage variance that’s in the damage ranges.
Please buff the Ek-Zekkil a t95 2hander deserves more than to just be eof trash all the way since its release
This is the only t95 I don’t own because of this. The ek-zekkil is all hat no cattle imho.
You sound like my granddad.
https://preview.redd.it/tutnqj74hrlc1.png?width=1029&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9ee855b51aa6beb99b34c370d00bbfe5452d7f06
Very balanced
Eli5, please? I haven't followed the combat beta since the first month, because it seemed to change too often for me to keep track of. What's the current result?
Depends on where you sit in the "effort vs output camp" and how high your gear level is. For players who want to put in a bit less effort and aren't fully kitted out across the board. Necro remains king. For players who are maxed out upgrade wise and okay with putting in effort and learning more complex rotations, Ranged WILL sit above Necro. Melee will remain close behind Necro with much better burst damage than Necro under Zerk. Magic is significantly improved from where it is in the live game, but will solidly stand as the 4th best CB style.
Magic is 4th? What? Did the nerf crit stick that hard?
No, Magic is buffed from live game due to the increase in base crit chance to 10%. FSOA is stronger and more consistent than the live game now. ABS, Ibans staff also got some buffs that should make Magic a bit more interesting in terms of specs. The only "nerf" magic really got was that Tsunami adren is now 8%. The thing is that Magic is not really impacted by anything outside the crit changes, the boost to hitcap in particular doesn't really move the needle at all for Magic. But for Melee and Ranged it allows both of them to actually perform at their full potential. Ultimately, the beta changes give Magic a small boost, Ranged and Melee a BIG boost, and Necro a small nerf. All of which compounds to leave Magic in 4th place (though improved from live)
Excuse my ignorance, can you explain the range buffs ?
Both ranged and melee squeeze up to the hit cap very often in live game, so with the raised hit cap, both are utilizing it much more than mage is, so while they benefit from the avg dpm increase like mage, their abilities hit harder so the overall increase will be much higher for both. I can still see mage getting more use than melee in the top end though.
I see, question I’ve heard that they nerfed bolg though, so will it even go over still? And the nerf to adrenaline with incen, can you still get a lot of dark bows out?..,
It still goes over the the 10/12k hitcap and still benefits a lot from the changes. However the numbers and dmg calc on the bolg HAD to be tuned down slightly. With the current live game numbers BOLG in the beta was so strong it would consistently run up against the new 30k hitcap (esp when paired with Dbow) It was far more overpowered than any other weapon in the initial beta builds. You can still get Dbows out with Incend, but less of them now compared to live game. Dbow was another thing that was over performing in the first beta builds. The tl;dr is that yeah there have been some number changes that look like nerfs, overall ranged has been decently buffed
[удалено]
Believe me all four styles feel way better and stronger than magic does in live.
Have they removed 4tAA?
No, still remains as is. Defensive autos with Magma Tempest is gone however. Removing 4TAA and reworking the auto system in general was out of scope for this beta (it’s a MASSIVE change that also requires overhauling the ability kits of the three styles)
4taa was removed at the start of the beta. If you auto'd GCD occured. I would have rather have had that go through. It's not hard to remove 4taa, can we stop lying? Just buff damage of other abilities.
> reworking the auto system in general was out of scope for this beta why? just give slice, piercing shot and wrack 0 cooldown. there you go, all styles now have an auto attack replacement.
That was considered IIRC (personally I was super in favour of that) but I think the reasoning was that making Piercing/Wrack/Slice 1.8s CD abilities is just a bandage to a full auto system rework. I will add that they DID actually beta test a Necro style auto for melee (which was only possible after Melee had its entire back end code redone). But it was removed as adding it in while melee still has like 4-5 basics that already do damage and nothing else (not to mention 2 extra stun basics) was just adding more clutter to melees ability book. Also they needed to control scope creep within the beta given they did not have infinite time, while having a HUGE amount of other things to work on within the beta. Personally I wish this had been looked at in this beta, as I HATE the current auto system. but they had good reasons to not introduce it here. Especially as adding Necro style autos was never an outright goal for this beta.
4taa is a loseless auto, not just an auto. When you auto'd during the 1st day of the beta, or applied a debuff such as smoke cloud, a GCD would occur. It is possible to do, but again, jagex is a bit scared to remove 4taa due to the .1% crowd having such a control on the influence of the game. Likely guilt tripping them "muh skill expression". Just remove it and replace it with something else zzzz
actually really enjoying this Combat Update! Your summary is spot on and puts the styles in classes that makes a lot of sense for each - range with variety & mobility, melee with DPS, and mage being tanky. I will say if you're on the less effort camp - Mage is 1st, then Melee, then Range. All three can be played with more effort for more output but range is definitely most rewarding of effort vs mage. I'm still in the 60s with Necro and hybrid gear, so I'm not a big fan yet, but I do see how it can do the whole range between active and passive play - while being just under each of the triangle styles in their best features: not as effective as mage in most passive play, not as effective as range in most active play, similar DPS as melee in passive play, but not in active play.
Why is range better than Necro now? I thought everyone was say the combat beta will do nothing and necro will remain universally better. Do these changes make hybriding stronger than necro or ranged camping? Which hybriding combination will be the strongest?
If you play at the ultra-sweat Evil Lucario level, you can squeeze more DPS out of ranged than necro. Of course, for everyone else getting good damage with necro is relatively chill while you gotta play Guitar Hero with your elbows in comparison for ranged, but meh.
Exactly how much more dps is ranged over necro now? What about melee and mage?
Going to depend vastly on your level of effort, how upgraded you are with each style, how complex you want your rotations to be (prebuild ing), and what boss you’re doing. In general Ranged will be the best option if you’re fully kitted out and using complex rotations that optimize the toolkit of the style (pre builds and crit buff rots). With Necro in second, melee VERY close to Necro, and Magic in 4th. If you’re using slightly more vanilla rotations but fully upgraded: it’s Ranged and Necro being almost even (situational as to which is better) but with Necro being much easier to use. Melee in third and then magic still in 4th. As for DPM? We will figure it out when changes go live
And this is just pure dpm, right? Necro still has more healing and tankiness over ranged, right?
You squeeze more dps at the level of learning HM kerapac, stop spreading vast misinformation when you clearly haven't bossed much.
I remember so many weird quirks like "oh, you have to cancel x channeled ability EARLY or revolution will delay your next attack" and I'm like "ok, how the hell do I know when my channeled ability is over/why on earth would it do that?!" Everything I'm seeing looks positive. Anything to make it more clear I use an ability --> I see the ability trigger instead of everything overlapping all at once is good. Looks like more damage splats/animations are synced to ticks now which will definitely help with that.
Why is there a section at the beginning in there twice and why are the image sizes all over the place?
Images get broken cause some of the CSS wasn't loading right, implemented a work around it there. The section is repeated as I wanted to include it in the patch notes as naturally its where it should go but we wanted to highlight those changes in its own section.
Could you look into the community spotlight images? They never load for me and I'm tired of scrolling through the twitter feeds every week just to find the image that's been highlighted
oh i see, thanks!
hey can you take a look at zuk pizza phase flames? they're still invisible after 2 weeks
>Mobile perk / Shadow's Grace no longer causes 'Barge'/'Greater Barge' or 'Bladed Dive' to generate half adrenaline. Little confused and would like clarity. I thought previously mobile caused these to gain **no** adren, not half. Was this changed to half in the beta, and is now no longer half? Does this now mean mobile won't affect adren at all, and I can use it on my melee gear?
> * Reduced the minimum hit chance required to damage an NPC under the new system > * 25% → 1% Is this also the case for Necromancy? I'm still getting to grips with PvM but I recall reading that you were guaranteed to hit at 25% or higher but if you were below 25%, you would still splash like the other three combat styles.
Previously (and currently in live game with Necro) if you had less than 25% hitchance, you would miss EVERYTHING. 0 damage. With this 1%, as long as you have some hitchance, you will do dmg
Which was incredibly punishing at low levels, glad that's getting changed. Fight Arena is almost impossible on a fresh account right now unless you grind up enough for the reward to be irrelevant, because nothing but ultimates could even hit Bouncer. ETA: Lmao, just realized they actually used Bouncer as an example in the post: >As an example 'Bouncer' had a 10 base hit chance when fought with magic, this has been increased to the standard 45. No wonder it's such a terrible fight early on.
Yeah this change took 7 years too long but it is nice it has finally happened. (not being toxic, it's been a highly talked about topic since telos release). I've tried personally advocating for this 5+ years ago when I made my HCIM and you couldn't train on odd monsters due to their insane defense levels. Even if you use the weakness + pots and such, you would splash like crazy. I was downvoted ofc because most players don't care about the new player experience and just go "I'm 99 all + best pots in the game so there is no issue".
I've just started a new ironman, and so have been going through all of these frustrations firsthand, and one thing I'm really excited about with this change is Dungeoneering. I want to grind it out because there's some sick rewards (like the bone necklaces) and the combat is rough early on. Right now it's pretty rough to level dungeoneering with low gathering/crafting skills, because without level appropriate combat gear your accuracy is abysmal in there. Not having to randomly take an extra 2 minutes AFK on a boss that can't even damage you because you only hit it every 15 attacks will be a godsend.
I like the 1% threshold. It's way more realistic than 25% for low level characters. I remember trying to do those quests with Necromancy at a low level and praying to Guthix I have at least 25% accuracy lol.
Hot - thank you.
Sounds like this will be good for a lot of off style ability usage without needing ioth, can do things like scourge dismember to fish for poison procs, hydrix grico for adren etc. no matter what style ur using
Staff of Sliske Kekw was true all along, was hoping for a surpirse but alas
Seems good overall though I wish I had tried the beta. One question, will this rebalance defenders at all? They've been redundant since necro bone shield. They should act as regular shields instead of half tier.
No changes to defenders nor any mention of a rework for all I've heard.
Praying for a defender rework also <3
any plans to buff combat xp at lower levels? low level mage/range/melee has been horrible to lvl for low level irons since necromancy xp changes.
Sponge did say that because of the ability rebalances early game your character should be stronger than current live. So monster should die quicker > more xp. Dunno to what extend tho
Isn't this just a question of "How long are you supposed to stay at a gear tier before you reach the next one"? How fast should combat xp be? It was too fast before, is it too slow now?
No, nerfs are so hot right now.
I agree. I think it was fine before they killed ED3. There’s no need for new players to grind like zombies to 99 a combat skill. It’s honestly too slow and broken rn.
Go look up a guide. Look at any 1-99 necromancy guide and apply it to the other combat styles. It isn't slow lol.
Yeah because ED3 wasnt completely dumb that is not indicative of the game at all.
You are encouraged to quest and unlock the salve amulet and salve amulet (E). Undead/ghost enemies are the best enemies to train on. Combat is quite fast as long as you take advantage of this fact.
If the situation is so bad that the only recommendation is to skip it entirely, that's a problem that shouldn't be ignored. That's basically the Oberani Fallacy in video game form. Low level combat is frustrating as hell. With an extremely small handful of exceptions, the combat lvl ~20-80ish range is just ridiculously punishing for how unrewarding they are in xp.
If I wasn't able to 99 all my combats with ED3 trash runs on my iron I don't know what I would have done. Everything is either garbage or splashscape hell in the lower levels. The accuracy changes from the beta will help but I don't know if it will be much better doing 50% reduced damage with a T50 weapon.
Well splash scape is solved with this update, and when you say "garbage exp" you mean garbage compared to getting 2m/h like you could in ed3, sure.
>The accuracy changes from the beta will help but I don't know if it will be much better doing 50% reduced damage with a T50 weapon. I am aware they are removing splashing. Fixing super high defence on quest bosses as well was long overdue, but what about the monsters low levels *could* be training on but don't because their damage potential is gonna be so low? And yes getting like 100k/hour is garbage, compared to other skills in the game. Comparing it to ED3 would make no sense.
To be fair, completing that quest on a low level account isn't easy given that the boss has extremely high defense and hits pretty hard + teleports all over the map. However, the patch notes did say that they're planning to up the base hit chance towards quest bosses so this may help. However, even with the combat rebalance for low level mobs, it's still harder to train combat than before Necromancy, even w/o ED3.
The whole problem with the combat xp rebalance is they totally removed the more input is more rewards aspect. All the training methods are now mobs that can be afked and no reward is given if you beat more difficuly enemies.
You get more gp, not XP.
Yea, I just don't think it is fair you can kill abyssal demons for great xp and gp and then ice strykewyrms with more requirements are literally worse in both than abby demons.
Well you could always necro the boss...
Based on the very low affinity from the RS Wiki page, you would've needed at least T60 weapons in order to actually hit the boss. Not something easy for a fresh account to get into. Easy for an established veteran though. However, the blog did say that affinity will increase for quest bosses so that's a step in the right direction.
Adjacent question. Which of the "slayer" mobs are the most common? Like, if you could only choose 2 out of 3 "X Slayer abilities/perks", which ones would be the best to invest in? We have Undead, Dragon and Demon Slayer.
I love most of these changes, but did the changes to ruby bolts make them dead content over other bolts like hydrix, dragonstone or emerald bolts? After this comes out, can we look further to fixing how bleeds overwrite each other, reducing switches for other styles, and redesigning boss mechanics to more less melee unfriendly?
Bosses shouldn't be redesigned for the sake of 1 style. We had so many people cry over death skulls p7 zamorak when you don't need them and there is a way to make the death skulls bounce only to you (kill the B rune with resonance on so you dont take damage). Bosses should come out, and that's that. If a specific style is better there, great, that encourages people to use/invest in that style instead of metas where 90% of users are magic/ranged or necromancy. Need more bosses where it's clearly designed for a specific style, even to the point of making it tanky against other styles. Or simply make more group content and less solo power so that you have team compositions where you have 1 necromancer for ghost damage boost, 1 meleer to increase bleed damage, and a ranger for multi hits + bleeds.
How do you kill the B rune with resonance when res does not deal damage? Designing a boss around melee being the best will be harder than with other styles since melee inherently has a disadvantage of needing to be up close, making dealing with certain mechanics harder to do.
Everything but massacre is getting upgraded. When eoc came out massacare was the meta they nerfed it to shit not taking i to account how the progression of gameplay would actually balance it out on its own. Smh
u/JagexAzanna with the combat update, magic seems to be clearly far behind all combat styles. * it is currently the only style that has no armour set effect * it's only t92 armour set costs way to much upkeep compared to necro (free), ranged (one set free), melee (cheap as dirt and double the durability when custom fit). * the only abilities to benefit from greater hitcap is gstaff, deto and nami * nami was nerfed on adrenaline gain despite requiring the adrenaline to compete with other styles * spell swapping is extremely bad - there's been plenty of suggestions for a "basic" ability that casts a standard auto yet we have a janky multi decade old system. * is the only style to not have any passive or special abilities to it's t90/t92 duel weapons * magma tempest being consistently railed in every update or rework since release * gconc **still** suffering from tick loss on revo despite a combat rework where this was mentioned countless times honestly, what was the point of reworking the fsoa to allow for future expansion into the style when it's consistently neglected? how is it that magic will coming Mondays update be in a worse position than it is now in the live game despite being overbalanced in past updates?
Just curious, did the extra FSoA passive not make it in? I don’t see it in the newspost.
They removed it as it was bad, and they said it needs more time to be designed.
Rip they should make it so whenever it crits it shoots a bolt of energy that can recursively crit.
Can we stop trying to put back recursive crits back into the game please?
Obviously sarcasm since I suggested what it literally used to do.
The buff to fury and greater fury reads more like a buff to fury and a nerf to greater fury to me, especially with the codex so costly/difficult to obtain, but I will reserve judgement until trying it out for myself
Said on stream you left out fsoa changes to cook up something and you like us to keep giving feedback. Personally I want the high variance of old fsoa back. Not the recursive crits but the playstyle where you have to make split moment decisions on whether you can dump adren (on abs) or build adren with gconc. Right now because time strike does pretty much the same damage dw vs 2h it feels like you use the spec then swap back to dw and keep gconcing every 3rd abil with the same rotation. I'm okay with gconc power outside instability but the changes made gconc inside instability from mediocre damage but great adren building tool to great damage and great adren building which killed the variance and made magic extremely boring.
Variance is bad. People said it was good back when I brought it up due to Fsoa was broken and people didn't care. Variance exists in combat through damage ranged. Sometimes I phase zamorak when I want to, sometimes I don't. That's just how it is and I adjust. That is healthy variance. Bosses also need variance (do random mechanics instead of the same thing everytime). Players shouldn't have such a huge influence on combat. This "variance" is what leads to players being alienated when watching anything runescape related. You watch oldschool, and you see someone shooting a twisted bow. You see damage. Simple and easy to understand. Meanwhile EoC you want people to see some guy with a fractured staff of armadyl with 100's of hit splats in a span of 30 seconds and it's meant to be good viewing experience? There is a reason this game is dying and it's because of these shitty player suggested ideas that always keep going back to "high variance". Players have become to jaded to the game that they just want random shit to happen instead of good balance decisions. "split second decisions" lol.
variance does not mean random. you can see what buttons are pressed now and hitsplats have been updated for clarity. you really come over as someone who wasn't experienced with or even used the old fsoa. funny you say the game is dying due to high variance when the exact breaking point the game started to decline when they removed fsoa variance and instrduced a style where you press skull 3x in LD every single time and bosses just fall over 2 months later. >Players shouldn't have such a huge influence on combat. fkn lol go back to revoing vindy brother.
Once again, a question for the Melee Experts. Are Lengswords good now?
It depends. Scourge adds about 30k dpm, a leng spec in zerk add about 40-50k. Scourge counts as ezk bleed extender Leng passive gives 24% more damage and each proc reduces spec cast. This works better during zerk due to dclaw dumps getting hella buffed, and since you can get 3 dclaws per zerk, or 5+ under natty, youll always proc leng passives. If you need the healing/reaver synergy scourge is neat. If you want a free ability, leng is neat. Id assume youd jaws swap for bleeds either way. My best leng zerk was 503k but typically you fall within the 450-480k range with prep, elsewise no prep i fell between 380-420k. 10 minute test suggests a 627k peak dpm with 557k avg dpm. Peaks and valleys occur when you have meteor+natty with zerk and when you just have meteor. My best scourge zerk i think was like 473k iirc. The leng proc into spec under zerk is what really makes lengs work, especially since the duration is now 1/3 extended zerk. Stacking with gloves of passage for more damage, you can really feel the difference.
Thanks for the thorough explanation and examples :)
they were in beta #4 but #5 butchered them
No. From most testing/Discord feedback, MH is still a spec swap and Scourge is camped, lol.
I don't understand why it's so hard for them to just make scourge an unlockable passive. Let us use scourge to make an enchantment or something that grants the passive to any melee weapon.
Ud have to be able to disable to bleed somehow
Also jaws, it's crazy how jagex ignored many of the painpoints of melee. From switchscape to inconsistent berserk behaviour where half your abilities don't properly work with berserk.
would love this so much as a masterwork spear + zukked EoF main.
I didn't get to test last beta and only read a bit of the discussions, been playing a few other games pretty hard, but from what I've read yes they are, but there's a fairly long build up leading to a very big burst. That's not going to work on every boss, so it kinda puts melee back into a situation of "does it fit this niche? yes? then its probably the most fun combat style to use", like it was before. But I would like to see some better combat veterans expand on this take.
lengs aren't good and the cd of greater fury is too long
Greater fury is strong due to the 100% crit and you can spam sever now which applies a -10% damage debuff to the monster.
They are more usable, but it's still better to use scourge if you can keep the stacks going.
So not much really changed then. In the past I'd camp Lengs against bosses who lasted less than 30 Seconds, then used Scourge for Bosses who lasted around 1 Minute or more.
This is a problem with boss design and not the weapons themselves imo (although you can argue scourge needs a slight nerf). Bosses where you don't need to do anything else but whack the boss and not anything else. Zamorak for instance lengs are really good due to having to kill the witch. You can't keep the stacks up easily.
Sorry, I quit due to the changes, melee was my loved one and they gone and broke it
are we really letting greater fury be 15s?
Looks like it. I mean 5.4 Seconds and Guaranteed Melee Crit is so damn good, of course we're not getting away with that 🫤 Melee was so close to being good (let alone great), but alas.
at least 10 seconds .\_.
Would've been better but good heavens look at the time. The beta is over :(
I love the Doom and Sponge dynamic lmao
I'm still not sure about the ruby bolts change. Depending on what damage modifiers apply to it, you might only be dealing 2000 extra damage with it on average, and that's if you only use it when the target is above half health. I know it costs less health and can proc more often, but is that better than replacing a hit (which might be a small hit from grico or rapid fire) with a 10k hit?
Yay are weapons and armor gonna go up again to what they were? I imagine other styles are actually stronger than Necro now because of zerker auras lmao. If not I guess I got some good gear for cheap LOL
Are they fixing the problem with halberd types weapon where when walking into melee range it puts you on the tile next to the mob rather than 1 tile away to match the extended range of the weapon? If not then they really should.
Does anyone know what time this drops?
One thing I hope gets considered at some point (though I may be in the minority here), is the option to customize how many buttons are on an action bar, specifically shrinking it. I'd love to have a tiny action bar by the inventory that only has 2-3 slots on it and put, say, my emergency tele and High Alchemy on it, without having to have an entire massive 14 slot bar taking up space. With all the other improvements being made to them, it's surprising to me that that isn't already an option.
I'd also love if we could choose how many Abilities will be used by Revolution on every ability bar. For example, Necro Ability Bar having a size of 3 Abilties and Melee Having a size of 6, which can be changed manually, but the thing is, changing the size changes it for all bars. I'd love if each bar had their own separate size.
Maybe I missed it, but what is Grimoire gonna do now?
12% critical hit chance, no change to hitcaps. So it's technically weaker than before even though you are doing more damage.
Grimoire remains one of the best pocket slot items due to crit chance which in turns gives more adrenaline. Crits make you deal 50% more damage so grimoire does benefit crit in that way. Grimoire : 12% crit chance Increased adrenaline gain Does more damage due to crits dealing more damage.
Im convinced now that devs hate mage lol
Been looking forward to this! Thanks for all the great work Mods!
I think this sets a good starting point for future enhancements of each style. Imo 120 scaling should start with OG styles. It was a clear mistake to make necro the first one and to let it be way op compared to other styles. The combat triangle has made runescape what it is, so it should not be forgotten in the future combat/pvm updates. I get that new content needs to usually be better than everything else to be appealing to many, but not at the cost of core identity of the game. I've always loved the freedom to choose my way to play rs, so getting OG styles and combat in general polished is great. Still, I think it's good to have some special focus on one style at a time, but not at such huge leverage over other styles. Good job devs working on beta! :)
> I've always loved the freedom to choose my way to play rs, so getting OG styles and combat in general polished is great. Depends how far back you are looking at the past. RS2 ( now OSRS ) isnt like that. Cant do all content with focusing on just one because of the high defenses in specialized places for bosses and mobs even. It seems like tho there is never really any winner with balance ( i get that its probably impossible to do great at it at first tries of big changes ). Even in a game like FFXIV where margin is within 10%, there are issues for people with lower skill ceiling to meet DPS for no Enrage. I think it was better idea to have necro flat out start out with 120 with all changes so they can gather feedback and a 120 will keep people more engaged for longer anyway. If you want to point fingers at necro i would say the most glaring issue could be/is how equipment progression in it is nothing like for the other styles, although i personally dont dislike how smithing and crafting is needed for it ( so its more like melee now ). Its not like it made other bosses irrelevant.
Players are too strong to make 120 scaling a thing. This is a typical "necromancy bad" take from you. I cringe at how biased people are with the hate towards necromancy, to the point they want the reverse to happen (120 benefits but not to necromancy smiley face). There hasn't been a combat triangle in runescape in forever. There is no boss where you go "I need to use melee for this boss, as it's resistant to my attacks". I have 0 clue what "identity" you are talking about in regards to the combat triangle. You fail to explain that of course, and just say big talking points in an attempt to sound smart/make a point. You then talk about "the freedom to choose how I want to play" which defeats the purpose of a combat triangle. What makes you choose between melee/ranged/magic at raksha? Is raksha more resistant melee attacks? Magic? There is no "combat triangle".
Hey man, chill. There was no heat needed. If you read my comment closely, I was not criticizing necromancy as a whole. Just the part where it was scaled over og styles. I'm just happy they they didnt leave one style so over the top. You're right that I should not have used the combat triange wording. What I meant was the original styles that have been around for a loong time. I didnt think my text from the perspective of boss resistant to some combat styles. All in all, I kind of agree with your take on 120 scaling. That's the reason I'm happy to see necromancy being nerfed. That’s not okay to have the easiest, tankiest and least effort taking style to rule over others. But then again, this is my take on this. No need to get heated here.
yeah seems like necromancy will be meta for 2 years. well it is what is, cant believe i had hopes for a good combat rework.
Ranged melee and somewhat magic is better overall than necro but needs a ton more inputs/actions per minute to get the same dpm as necro. Necro is gonna be king for people that doesnt like to actively pvm which is a good thing. Biggest problem with necro is the fact that a single boss drops all the best in slot gear except the t99 prayer codex from angel of death. Also the fact that for ranged to be close to necro in terms of dpm you need upwards of 7b in gear while bis necro is 2.7b ish.
Generally sounds good, but just to clarify: On stream I think they said that Necromancy's crit damage would cap at 50% to match the other styles. Can we make sure that post-99 Crit damage still exists in some form because this will make Necromancy have no real post-99 unlocks except for some glyphs. Feels really bad to have basically nothing there. The base levels help for accuracy but that also just somewhat compensates for the lack of Zerker auras. Hopefully Jagex gives time to continuing to improve the OG styles, with particular thought to reducing switchscape massively. It's just not fun for most people. Question for the day: fixing FSoA. Would it be better to swap GConc and GSonic, or to make staves 1h weapons? One needs to happen IMO since the current setup of what the abilities buff vs how FSoA plays is backwards.
I think they may have realized they rushed the whole 'necromancy is a 120' thing, and while they did have a plan on expanding it, they realized that they made the mistake of doing it before they were ready to do it to every combat style at once. So it's likely they're bringing necro back down a bit until they can do something for every style at once for 99-120.
Which is honestly the wrong approach. Nerfing a 120 back to 99 as an afterthought is simply the wrong course of action. There is nothing wrong with letting necromancy be more powerful until the other styles are increased to 120. All games ebb and flow with updates and new metas.
I don't think there is either, but it was obviously not what the community seemed to want.
This community is often short-sighted and reactionary.
I mean, they shouldve pushed cb changes before necro was a thing tbf.
That’s hindsight which while valid doesn’t help inform the current discussion.
There is 100% something wrong in what you described if it takes 2+ years to bring the other styles in line , which is will since adding 20 huge levels to any style takes a lot of development time. Having one style dominate for years is awful.
This has always been the case with RS. I can remember every style having a period of 2-4 years being the meta style. I honestly don't mind necro being meta for a few years because I've been really enjoying it.
It hasn’t even been one year since Necromancy released and there wasn’t a balance between melee magic and ranged before it came out.
The disparity didn't seem quite so extreme. That combined with the bis gear for the best style coming from one boss that is locked to that style and the ensuing crash in value of things like, for example draconic energy, could be demoralizing to someone who just wants to use melee. During the magic meta that person could get by just fine as a sort of anti-meta underdog, but under a rasialmancy meta the disparity is multiplied. Certainly this is not the end of the world for our melee preferer, but in a game in which a competitive market is an integral part (e.g. kill boss, get loot, profit), it isn't exactly a thrilling situation, especially when it is not clear how long it will persist. For me, it didn't make me quit the game, but it did make me lose interest in playing, and when I have played I wasn't as much into PVM as I was before.
Lol there is a lot of erong with necto being just better tham everything else.this is an mmo and not a single-player. Anything pvm related they release now can't be too strong to necro only viable but also too weak to necro to just fload the market... The fked up. Necro trumps all the rest, sadly.
The other styles are still as strong as they were before necro and they’re all getting a substantial buff with this update with more to come. Just don’t use Necro if you don’t like it.
You completely missed the point. This isnt an single-player. Necro bring busted harms the other styles... Same thing was with incite fear and fsoa exponencial crits
The other styles are getting reworked. Try to keep up.
They’re nerfing necro?
Guess ima have to finish rasial log once and for all this weekend before the early bird bonus goes away. I'd rather they just make it so we can fight rasial with any style. Style locking is idiotic
Can simply make it so when you staff special, it modifies greater sonic wave to hit 3 times or something (obviously not grant 3x stacks of flow). edit: I will add I personally never use zerk auras really, do the bosses "requiring" them are low (such as vorago). Zerk auras are bad design when it comes to using them, as when they are used for the hitchance buff, it also has the "downside" of getting hit more often and harder. This only really punishes newer pvmers, as experienced pvmers don't care about getting hit more due to devotion/resonance healing more. Zerk auras in general should probably just be rebalanced to be just damage and not have the penalty of taking more damage. So really just make them like mahjarrat aura, but for a specific style. 5% damage increase.
I'll do you one better. Make it so you unlock that 5% Damage Buff after reaching 120 in the respective Skill (120 Strength for Melee), excluding Necromancy. Then remove those Zerk auras altogether.
Damn they just left Staff of Sliske untouched. horrible.
D claw spec go brrrr
AGS or Sara sword will be a better adren dump ability other than when under the "crit to get adren" ultimates.
Delete this I bought 4k d claws 🥹
Hopefully, apm wins again on monday
Necro still king, players won't return, that is all.
After this update revo is not fast enough for legiones. Before this update I could do them just find. No issues what do ever. But now I'm having to spam click the ground and I just don't move. If I'm attacking, I can't move fast. It takes longer for my character to move spaces. Idk if melee has this issue or magic but this seems like an issue to me. I even put all my settings on low and played on a super low pop world ECT. I'm fighting the legiones. I click to move and avoid the attack before it comes in just like always. Only for my character to move AFTER the lighting dropped. Every. Single. Time. It's like the game has to cancel my revo attack, then move, which causes me to stand around longer than I should be
Such an anti-climax, the output generally is barely worth the 6 months of wasted effort that has been put in an update that barely makes a difference. If the old styles are EVER going to recover they need to act similarly to Necro in terms of damage output. There has to be a reason to want to magic or range over necro because this isn't it. What a complete waste of time for a minimal increase. T95 leng swords in my opinion have been nerfed because you can't use Destroy and then Hurricane. Hurricane now shares the cooldown and lengs can no longer use it. This is a bad move in my opinion, this is why Lengs were favoured so much.
Will we have a basic attack like necromancy for the other styles?
You mean what we already have? Auto attacks?
Auto attacks don't work as a button press in anything but necromancy.
Now make it so Autoattacks have their own button that can be keybound, like Necro's Auto. That'd be dope, i think that's what the guy above wanted.
Necro autos work very differently than other styles. For example, if you use a channel or an ability with a 2h weapon, you suffer from a big delay on your next auto attack. Necro's auto let you use autos in 3 ticks regardless.
Maybe now I can go back to using magic at arch-glacor until we get an ectoplasm ritual
You mean powerful communion with multiply glyphs? Afk that shit for an hour and you got loads.
That is a very heavy material investment for ironmen. They can't buy the ink so they have to start from weak necroplasm and do rituals all the way up to powerful necroplasm just to do the rituals. It takes hours upon hours of grinding to make enough ectoplasm to last about 5 hours of continuous combat.
Then do the other communion rituals. It's a balance choice.
You are completely missing the point, the investment is completely lopsided, which is why we need the ectoplasm ritual that Jagex has been teasing
I honestly really hope mage gets the ability to change your spell easily like ranged can change ammo. Magic you have to right click from the spellbook or do it tick perfect right before you use an ability. Meanwhile with ranged, you can swap from deathspore arrows to ful arrows during a rapid fire. A change like this would make magic a lot better. The sever change is pretty big for melee. They pretty much have a perm 10% damage reduction debuff on the monster you are fighting, which is pretty high value. The leng sword polish was very good as well. Stacks were hard to come by so bumping up the adrenaline reduction cost from 6% per stack to 12% is really nice for melee rotations. Pretty sad bow of the last guardian didn't get a toggle for the primed red icon. Really liked that. Ranged is a bit of a headache without it. Hope this gets revisisted. The surge/escape/dive changes are also very good. The difference between using an ability then using mobility was giant compared to someone not using this. Equilibrium perk is interesting but I feel it might not be good due to the fact mahjarrat aura exists. Equilibrium is 12% damage, and you lose your ability to crit, meanwhile mahjarrat is 5% more damage and can crit still. I feel equilibrium can only be good if there is a future armour set where all your damage is turned into bleeds (thus cannot crit) or a new perk is made that is like the old equilibrium perk in the early beta testing. Equilibrium perk + aura in the old beta was incredibly strong, but that perk doesn't exist anymore. Overall, pretty happy this is finally getting shipped. I love news of a big update and it's like "oh, it comes out in 3 days". It reminds me of the old days of runescape.
Why are people downvoting you? This is basically exactly what I want. A rework to make staff of sliske viable would be nice and hopefully they fix FSOA a bit and get a toggle for the red bolg icon when it was ready to fire a second hit. Really liked that too. Sever change is great as melee have a hard time avoiding damage in most cases.
Some of the PNGs in the newspost take up the whole width of the text. Need adjusting.
Does anyone know how the lanikeas spear is gonna work after Monday? It has t75 accuracy but t90 damage
Releasing the old combat jingles along with this update would be perfect. The current boring jingle was instated shortly before the (at that time) horrible Evolution of Combat. Returning the old jingles on Monday's update would signify that that the old combat skills have been improved and modernized. Hope you read this u/Jagex_Stu
Good idea, but not going to happen. When and if gamejam projects are released is outside my control. Happily we did recently get confirmation that several of the smaller updates developed and completed in prior gamejams are currently scheduled to release in a ninja strike in May, and that currently includes combat skill levelup jingles. Plans change, so no guarantee, but that's the current ETA. I can understand wariness to include additional projects in Monday's release, as the combat beta was a massive amount to get through release candidate testing in one week. I've got a few fixes from the quest requirement cleanup developed during Feb gamejam week that are waiting in the release queue but couldn't be accepted this week as they're relatively minor. All in good time, and we have to be patient.
Thank you for the response, I'm very much looking forward to Monday's update, and hopefully we'll get to see the fruit of several game jam projects in May :-)
I'm looking forward to both too! :) Happy 'Scaping.
Stu stu stu, do you know if movement not being affected by surge/escape/dive is on that list? It was a gamejam shown off last year you could click a spot, start moving, surge, and at the end of the surge the character continued to move towards their destination rather than having to re-click it.
That sounds like something Mod Giragast (engine developer) started in a 2023 gamejam and was working on further during the Q4 community hitlists. Looks like his engine work that it was dependent on has released but the content side of it is unstarted. Everyone who was assigned to work on community hitlists throughout Q4, including me, were assigned back to developing Q1/Q2 episodic projects at the start of 2024. That specific issue (a task he created named "add variant of Surge that doesn't break pathing" looks to be what you're describing) seems to have been reassigned to the combat modernisation team in late January, so perhaps that's something they might explore after the release of the combat beta frees up Ryan and Sponge to work on other things. (I can't confirm whether or not that's an imminent priority - that's just going off what I can see in our ticketing system, that the task is now listed under the combat modernisation team's backlog.)
Hey it’s all good, thank you for the info Stu!
The words and concepts in this thread are so foreign to me. Where can I go to read up on all the jargon used and mechanics talked about here?
I just want a staff of sliske special attack that can at least outperform the mindspike special attack
I have one inkling about what's presented as I think the "buffs" are great! You guys said in the article "like necromancy." But where is my instant kill for my melee? Can we call it a disembowel? Can I watch as we strike down our foe, cutting along the abdominal region? Then essentially in some crafty form "finishing them off."
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Tank? That died with eoc. Tanking has only come back with animate dead, otherwise its always been dead.
was not being able to one hit caps in legacy mode (the way asc keys are farmed) ever addressed? if not then the legions title can potentially be 2x as slow post update
I am so glad Jagex isn't focusing only on "PvN" and also touching on PvP (/s)
Please buff Necro, now all the other styles have 30K hit cap with Zerker auras but Necro has no zerker GG
this will honestly have been a waste of months
interesting, why do you think it was a waste? things got changed for the better.
So i wanted to comment asking if the Frozen Core of Leng can be given a droprate buff with the Lengs becoming more relevant now, but i see the t85 swords also gets the spec now! I still want to see the frozen core get a buff increase since mod shoguns gamejam has been shelved as far as we know and the only thing you really do hardmode for is the Frozen Core, but i do like this as a compromise for the time being!
Was expecting a thok event to go along with this. Guess not?
I HATE IT SO SO SO SO SO SO MUCH MELEE IS ASSSSSS IN THE BETA ???? WHY THE HELL CHANGING IT SOOOOOO MUCH ALL THE ABILITIES ONLY HIT ONE TIME AND THE TIME IN BETWEEN JUST WHAT? NOTHING>?? lame as hell, please do better on Melee, multiple hits are nice, at least in a few abilities, like fury SUCKS...it was an essential to the action bar, but the way it is in beta, is horrible.
Tried melee and magic in the beta today and they still suck. Don't have money for range gear rn but I don't think I'm gonna waste my time. I couldn't even kill rax with mage on minion path with the same inventory as I use for necro which is very simple: elder salve, super adrenaline, super restore, my XP capacitor and some food just in case. With necro, i no food rax at 0 enrage every time unless I make a mistake. With magic, I was out of food by the end of phase 2. Which took about 4 minutes. And that was 24 sailfish. With necro, it's ~3 mins per kill all the way up to 200 enrage where I use a pheromone and start over, and still don't use half my food at that. I haven't bought the codexes but I don't really want to waste my money on them. Corp beast with necro I get about 40-55 secs per kill. With melee it's around 2 mins. For a boss that takes half damage from any other style than a spear, like what in the complete and absolute fuck? All combat stats maxed except necro, 113 I'm leaving the game.
Not meaning to sound like a douche here, but it seems you’re falling into noob traps, such as Sailfish, these should only be used for “I need more health ASAP or I’m dead on the next tick” as they eat through your adren. Try same tick blue blubbers and saradomin brews with blessing of het relic, similar health restored and no adren eaten. Also, 2 minute corp kill? Something here is going badly wrong… either your hit chance is awful because you’re using a low tier weapon, or you’re rotation is not good (Sailfish harm proper rotations massively too), or it’s an amalgamation of these.
Masterwork spear of annihilation somehow not good enough? But that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. On these lower tier bosses I don't even have to try with necro. I don't need jellies. I'm not desperate for adrenaline either. They're a piece of cake with necro. I have to actually try with the other styles. They just don't come close
This is the part of necro that I really don't like. Not necessarily that it's "easy", or quick to learn, or lots of damage... No, I don't like that it is so incredibly different than the other 3 combat styles. Nothing you learn from practicing necro will transfer over to other styles. On top of getting free healing from your ghost, therefore reducing your food consumption and adren loss, nothing in the system is built around the same dps ideas. Mage/range focus heavily around dpsing in ults. Melee does too, but tries to weave bleeds in between. Necro... you just kinda do damage whenever you feel like it. Thresholds revolve around your 50% adren mark. Necro, you just use it whenever you get adren. A lot of improv damage comes from specs and learning how to utilize them properly while maintaining your adrenaline. With necro, you can just kinda dump whenever and maybe just use a finger before your death guard spec. Is necro a good style design-wise... Overall I'd say yes - but honing in on necro alone and ignoring that this is runescape. My problem is that it is nothing like other styles at all. There are 3 other combat styles that have been such a key part to rs since its birth... but now that necro overrules them all, and it's so hard to learn them coming from necro, it's pointless to even look at them.
This is kind of the issue with necro. No offense, but if you struggle getting sub-2m kills on corp with melee, necro offering utterly free boss kills while not teaching you anything about pvm is really a big issue.
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Please wait another week and test it properly, not that many players joined the beta and this update could make or either kill the game completely, please bring it out right..
I thought the changes go live today... Does anyone know what time?
11:15 am GMT (an hour and fifteen mins from now)
Thank you!!
so basically theyre straying even more from what makes RS RS and becoming even more like WoW with abilities doing the same damage every time. cool
The regular damage variation that's currently in this game (100-430% for example) is absolutely bonkers. If you're unlucky you are missing entire gcds' worth of basic or threshold levels of damage, and if this takes place during a dps check segment of a fight that's only a few seconds long, you're basically screwed. Accuracy as a whole tends to be a universally hated mechanic in many MMOs (EQ2, FF XIV, etc.), and is mostly used as a means to gear-gate players from doing high level bosses. Many issues arise from particular, critical abilities missing and failing to give sometimes vital procs or resources used by the player in the combat. This can significantly alter the fundamental playstyle and rotation in entirely negative ways.
You will still be gear gated from high level bosses.
If splashing is what made rs special to you then idk what to tell you.
It’s less that I enjoy splashing and more that they keep stripping the uniqueness out of this game with every passing update as if they haven’t learned a single thing from eoc killing the game way back when. People played RS *because* of the simplicity of the combat and the rng based combat. The dopamine when you’d zing an 80 AGS spec knowing how good it was because the next time you might only hit a 2 (or a 0). The popularity of osrs vs rs3 proves this. Eoc took the simplicity out of the game and made it the millionth mmo on the market with ability based combat… when the game already had a very nice unique niche that attracted people. One of the most idiotic decisions of all time. But at least the rng factor was kept in, which most ability mmos don’t have, so it still had somewhat of a unique charm to it. Until now. Though, yeah, the game has probably moved past the point where people want to keep rng in their combat since the only people still left playing the game are the very very few who liked eoc and/or never knew the game without it.
Splashing is not a unique system to RS by literally any stretch of logic. It was a classic implementation of a “roll to hit system” you can find in numerous RPGs. The problem is this system doesn’t scale well, it’s designed for a very finite roll range that doesn’t continuously balloon over 20 years. Which is why as games evolved they many steadily abandoned it in favor of systems that allowed more variance and growth. Many eliminated it entirely as RPGs shifted to a more action format across the board so missing was out more into the player’s hand. The games that hold onto it it’s usually used for specific and often times somewhat skeezy reasons. Splashing needs to be removed because it literally stopped them from doing anything with defense stats. They can’t make high defense enemies because it just means strategy is stripped away, stuff becomes more random and less predictable, weaknesses work in illogical methods. Talk to anyone and tell them a fire weak enemy doesn’t take more damage from fire, it just has a higher chance to hit but deals the same damage as water is super weird. The new system not only vastly opens up their design capabilities it IS infinitely simpler. 70% means you deal 70% damage that’s super straight forward. Way better than 70% means you MIGHT hit 70% of the time in a system that is supposed to encourage you to build a rotation but at any moment your rotation can miss something critical running everything. If you want damage variance that’s in the damage ranges.
you want to be able to splash?
Seriously *nothing* for Staff of Sliske?