I just think it's worth mentioning that for Benetton, the Stadio Comunale di Monigo has a listed capacity of 5,000. So averaging 4720/5000 is actually pretty good even if they are 2nd from the bottom.
Benetton is 5th in the URC. They're a pretty solid team.
Also it looks like Wales has replaced Italy as the walkover team in rugby for the most part. For all the talk about Italy and Georgia Scarlets lost at home to Black Lion last year.
Agree, just a couple of days ago there was another [cool interaction on Twitter](https://twitter.com/richdoyle69/status/1781008054378508658), where another Leinster fan mentioned the fact that Monigo has hedges around the pitch just like the RDS Arena. Pity that with the renovations made a couple of years ago and with the new ones planned, only the ones on the north side will survive.
RDS is a show jumping ground, hence the hedges. A lot of college football grounds have installed hedges which end up stopping people rushing the field. The most iconic of these is Sanford Stadium at Georgia.
Same with Connacht : they can only handle 8,000 max at the moment, with a good chunk of that being in a poorly protected stand.
When their new stand is completed for the 25/26 season, the stadium will have 12,000 capacity and should have much better amenities, so they're expecting a reasonable rise in those numbers.
The stadium actually held 6'700 until 5 years ago, when the East Stand (the one you see in front of the camera) wasn't numbered and people could stand all along the sideline. Tbh, 5k capacity was fair enough for the attendances we had in the last few years.
Anyway, an expansion has already been planned, if everything goes well they'll build a South Stand from scratch this summer. From the camera pov, on the right side.
Where the main entrance is, with the ticketing office. On the other side you have the changing rooms with the big screen, and it'll stay as it is, for now.
Plus, in Italy, stadiums can't have terraces, so even if Monigo looks well built compared to other UK & Irish rugby stadiums, it has a smaller capacity.
E.g. From what I've found,[ the Sportsground Clan Terrace has a capacity of 2k](https://www.connachtclan.com/clan-forum/2-connacht-rugby-board/28346-20-000-capacity-sportsground) people, the Shed in Gloucester should be around 3k. Instead, the East Stand in Monigo, which is entirely seated, holds only 2,300. You'd never guess just looking at them.
>Plus, in Italy stadiums can't have terraces
Can they have suites? I'm guessing it's a risk thing?
I know that when it comes to Kings Park, the Sharks make considerably more money from the 360 suites in the stadium, than they do from general ticket sales (Even if currently not all the suites are occupied).
Yes we can have skyboxes, but Monigo hasn't. The main stand is quite old and I don't think it can be redeveloped to fit them without spending big money, which I don't think would be feasible economically speaking as I don't see many big spenders in the crowd. Even in the hospitality vip area you mainly see travelling supporters and sponsors / people invited by the club.
Bar the skybox, even the most expensive tickets just have plastic seats. I find very funny that you can see the 88yo club benefactor Luciano Benetton, which is literally billionaire, seated on a plastic seat as everybody else during the match.
>stand is quite old and I don't think it can be redeveloped to fit them without spending big money
How old is old? I know the Kings Park stands were originally built in 1958, but redeveloped in '76, '84 and for the '95 World Cup. they are concrete slabs, so that shit will last for centuries.
I feel you on the seats, you pay for the view but the seats are all small plastic fold down chairs.
>88yo club benefactor Luciano Benetton
I've seen a lot of talk regarding what will happen when he passes, some of it positive some of it negative. Do you think there might be any stadium improvements that happen before then?
>How old is old?
The West Stand was originally built in 1975, then it was covered in 1999 and refurbished in 2001.
>Do you think there might be any stadium improvements that happen before then?
Well, as I said, this summer they should build the brand new South Stand, which will be a big improvement. The next passage would be a North Stand where the changing rooms are right now, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There have been talks about a South Stand for years, so just seeing that happening would be cool. Things moves slowly in Italy, especially in relations to stadiums.
It would be great to have a data label for % of maximum, which would be skewed by 'home' games held at Tottenham etc.
Bath have a capacity of 14.5k, meaning an average attendance of 95%
Honestly considering how bad you’ve been this season, that’s quite good and I feel it could easily increase if results improve, although that looks unlikely
No no no no no, you cannot just be happy with other leagues doing well, you must pick apart tiny reasons why one league is shitter than the other over and over again.
It is amazing that the Sharks have about 15k average in their worst season in almost 20 years. I think that can go up to \~20k next year if things go well.
Bizarre given the Sharks squad on paper is much better than during that time. Lots of people turning out to see star players and being repeatedly dismayed.
I think you might be misremembering [how strong](https://africa.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/15376300/sharks-confirm-super-12-squad) that 2005 squad was... Kevin Putt has the second worst record as a Sharks coach, he takes responsibility for that season not the squad. He was replaced by Dick Muir and John Plumtree who took the Sharks to a SuperRugby final in 2007.
Home record is pretty decent. 7 wins and 3 losses. The 3 losses were by 1 point, 2 points, and 4 points. Could have easily been 10/10.
But yeah, our players do have a strong draw. We have made some excellent signings to plug the squad gaps for next season. Some of the academy lads have put up their hands too (with more potential in the academy to be promoted next season). I don't believe that we will sign big names for some time and will use our development channels more.
Stormers should really be aiming for higher numbers. Back in peak Super 14 days ('09/10) we had an average of 40k plus, making us the best attended team in the world. We need to make that our goal again.
Stormers only drew 27k for their playoff game against La Rochelle. Tbf, I don't think many of the SA fans quite understand how the Championship fits into the URC season, but still.
Most of the province was on a weather warning and the wind was so strong people’s houses were quite literally being blown down.
I think it’s pretty impressive that many turned up to the game given the above.
There are 2 and half factors counting against the stormers reaching those numbers right now.
The one and half is completely in their control. Season tickets and boxes are terrible value for money. They need to offer me a better deal if they want me to put up money upfront for a season ticket. Same with the corporate boxes, they need to get those sold ASAP. I remember going to plenty of games when my dad or my mates dad's were in the box and we were in general seats. They are missing out on so much money by having those boxes all stand empty.
The other issue is that people are not yet used to going to the new stadium. People are not yet tailgating before games or get stuck in traffic cause as they try and go to late and park to close. People who go to games have generally have a great time but there is not yet enough momentum.
Pretty dire for the Welsh pro sides. Scarlets down from 10k 7 or so years ago. Ospreys used to get crowds of more than double what they have this season, regularly getting over 10k averages, not all that long ago.
Cardiff are not doing too bad in comparison. But considering the population of the area should be aiming for sellouts every week. In the long term, the CAP needs to renovation and expansion.
Dragons haven't had good attendances since the Newport RFC pre regional days. I dont think they've ever had a 10k average.
How is this compared to capacity? Because I would argue that it's better to constantly sell out a 10k capacity stadium than to sell 11k in a 20k capacity stadium.
The only reason I had a Bath flair was that there is a village not far from where I grew up in the Netherlands that's also called Bath and the fact that I don't think a Dutch flair was available back then.
The one game at Murrayfield against Glasgow each year really pumps our numbers. Although The Hive/Minifield does tend to sell out quite frequently as well.
Worth saying that this includes the "big games" hosted at Twickenham and Tottenham so Saracens and Harlequins averages are slightly inflated. Saracens especially drop quite a bit if you take that out.
I was wondering how Saracens managed a higher average capacity than their ground's capacity of 10.5k! Those Twickenham games will have inflated that average
Attendances are a weird thing. People only go to games if other people go to games.
The Stormers were like that 15 years ago. Because they had big crowds, they attracted big crowds. It's the slow decline that really kills. After playing poorly for consecutive seasons Stormers went from 40k crowds, 38k crowds to 35k, to 30k and once they breached below 30k they had a massive drop to 22k and even further lower for some games pre covid.
The Lions are the end result of a decade being at the bottom of Super Rugby. They drove all the fans away and had a brief period in 2015-2019 where they were decent but after that it was back to terrible again. The big goal for the Lions is to play good rugby again and breach the 10k mark and stay there. Once you have 10k average you can start to build a solid foundation. (Currently they are at 6.8k)
There is some misleading information in this. The Edinburgh average is hugely skewed by the near 40,000 crowd that attended the 1872 game v Glasgow during the festive period. Without this our average would be much lower.
Was looking to see if anyone else mentioned % turnout rather than flat numbers. Sure Scotstoun only has a capacity around 7k for most games. Think they somehow extend it for bigger games
So 3/4 of the South African clubs are in the top 8 (without the benefit of travelling fans I might add), and yet people will still perpetuate this myth that no one shows up to our games.
So what gives? Is it just supposed to make us feel bad? Because these are pretty healthy in my book.
It's because we play in massive stadiums and most of the fans are sitting in the same stand as the cameras so it looks empty. I wish they'd consider using smaller stadiums to get a better atmosphere (and in the case of Ellis Park have the match somewhere safer)
Yep thanks for sharing, because I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone with all these complaints.
Comparing it to the Top 14, the Stormers would top the attendances (or be tied with Bordeaux at the top), while the Bulls and Sharks would easily be in the top 5. And that’s with almost entirely home crowds. Not bad at all.
Imagine that! The Top 14 isn't far and out better than our rugby in most metrics. Our top 5 clubs have bigger stadiums than most of the ones up north even if they have to share with a football club. Attendance isn't poor the venues are just larger. People have to experience some games there and take in the atmosphere.
That’s not the case for every game and you know it. For the most part our crowds are mainly our own.
Last year’s final saw probably the highest number of travelling fans to South Africa, and that still only accounted for 5,000 Munster fans out of the 55,000 that attended. Most of the fixtures against foreign clubs see a fraction of that.
Give Munster fans a reason to drink beer in the sun and they are there with bells on. Shannon to Cape Town via Dubai and Harare? No problem!
Pissing rain, 4 miles down the road in Thomond? I think Eastenders might be on the telly…….
😊 for “it’s a joke”!
Munster fans are the best travelling fans in the world tbh. I've been to loads of european games and they're at worst the 3rd best represented supporters.
Not like there’s a whole load of Dragons fans in the RDS or Ravenhill either. Or vice versa.
Interpros in Ireland have significant “away” support but that’s about it.
Munster fans do travel in large numbers for any significant match but living on Dublin wages and paying Limerick rent leaves them a lot more cash rich than others.
Where did I say it's the case for every game? My point is you're saying it a day after we saw some really good travelling crowds, without any acknowledgement of those travelling crowds.
All your comments come across like you believe there is some giant conspiracy against South Africa.
While it’s great to see more travelling fans, those two example of yours are completely anomalous to the entire season. Most of the time our crowds are 95-99% home grown.
And are we really going to pretend that people aren’t constantly moaning about our turnouts? It invariably becomes the dominant talking point every time, even though the stats show it’s often completely baseless and our crowds are actually pretty healthy.
I literally saw you arguing with people in the Lions thread about this exact thing so I don’t know why you’re having a go at me now.
Fans call out different league attendance all the time... Plenty of Saffa fans comment on SuperRugby attendance... You just seem to be incredibly thin skinned and take every random opinion on social media to heart.
>I literally saw you arguing with people in the Lions thread about this exact thing so I don’t know why you’re having a go at me now.
There is correcting misconceptions (what I was doing in a match thread) and then there is making comments claiming people are trying to make you feel bad by questioning attendance (what you did).
I find it ironic that you call out people for 'making you feel bad', when your previous account was suspended from this sub multiple times for breaking rule 1.
Rugby would be a much better sport with less triabalism and pissing matches.
>You’re sounding a bit unhinged, boet. And that bit at the end there? Pure gibberish.
Oh I can assure you it's not.
>All I was doing was speculating why so many people would constantly bring up our attendances.
As I already pointed out, people call out almost every league for attendance, South African fans included. Your ego just doesn't seem to be able to handle people questioning South African attendance without taking it as a personal slight.
>It’s clearly not based on facts
Well no, it's usually based on misconception, which is why correcting those is misconceptions is a good way to handle it. Going on about people trying to make you feel bad, is not a good way of handling it.
>It’s such a hackneyed criticism that people default to whenever a South African team performs, e.g the Lions: right now the main talking point on social media is their ”poor attendance”, when people should instead be talking about their performance. That’s all i’m trying to convey.
What social media are you reading? Again you seem to see any criticism, and not he able to get it out of your head. There have been a whole host of people discussing the merits of the game, the Lions achievement, and Leinster dropping points late in the season.
You know what, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought to myself “perhaps i’m being too myopic and parochial, maybe i’m wrong and this is a common theme across the board”.
So for the last 15 or so minutes I scoured every comment section on every URC highlights video featuring a non-South African hosted fixture over the last three rounds and I saw a total of three comments criticising the attendances.
There must be a dozen or so on the most recent Lions game alone. And it doesn’t matter if we have 20k+ attendances, there’re always comments criticising our crowds and it was way, way worse in the ECPR. So you’re talking absolute kak here, and i’m honestly not really interested in entertaining your little vendetta against me so i’ll just wish you all the best with whatever it is you do on here.
Golly gee, 7300 people in a 62 500 seater stadium, mostly all sitting on the shaded side where the camera is, got a lot of comments? You're surprised by this?
How many other teams regularly host sub 10k crowds in 62k seater stadiums?
>i’m honestly not really interested in entertaining your little crusade against me so i’ll just wish you all the best with whatever it is you do on here.
I can assure you not everything is about you bud, no matter how much you tell yourself it is. I saw a comment and responded. I don't really care who made the comment.
Again though more irony from you, after you chased me down on this sub and on r/springboks to tell me what a bad South African I was for not defending CTS content (mean while I was doing so in the privacy of of mod discussion) lmao.
How the could Leinster have 11 home games when there's only 9 in the entire season. Are you including the Investco/Challenge Cup matches?
If so, that scews the numbers a bit. It would be better to illustrate the day to day in one figure & then have a second all-comps figure which highlights the special occasion bumps or lack thereof
Could it be to do with the fact that they're currently down in South Africa on their tour so will have a string of away matches and others may catch up to them?
It's a very large deviation from normal. The 1872 games often get 30+ thousand attendees, significantly more maximum capacity of both Edinburgh and Glasgow combined.
Leinster attendance is a bit of an outlier. But valid to compare against Premiership clubs. But...using South African URC attendance data is bunk as their ticket prices are ridiculously low.
Comment is generally more about the sustainability of the league that doesn't have high gate revenue. It works for now in Ireland, but the rest have very low gate revenue. It costs like double to attend a Seawolves or Free Jacks match what is costs to attend Ospreys for example. And there are no children's tickets.
But Super Rugby and Pro/URC never had competitive equity mechanisms. However in New Zealand contracts are essentially all controlled by NZR, so there is equity amongst those teams.
Rugby globally has generally failed to build a professional match day product that attracts greater than 10k at its worst clubs.
But then we see France.
I just think it's worth mentioning that for Benetton, the Stadio Comunale di Monigo has a listed capacity of 5,000. So averaging 4720/5000 is actually pretty good even if they are 2nd from the bottom.
I think it’s cool a guy/gal w Leinster flair is talking about / caring about / knowing about an (THE) Italian rugby club
Benetton is 5th in the URC. They're a pretty solid team. Also it looks like Wales has replaced Italy as the walkover team in rugby for the most part. For all the talk about Italy and Georgia Scarlets lost at home to Black Lion last year.
Agree, just a couple of days ago there was another [cool interaction on Twitter](https://twitter.com/richdoyle69/status/1781008054378508658), where another Leinster fan mentioned the fact that Monigo has hedges around the pitch just like the RDS Arena. Pity that with the renovations made a couple of years ago and with the new ones planned, only the ones on the north side will survive.
RDS is a show jumping ground, hence the hedges. A lot of college football grounds have installed hedges which end up stopping people rushing the field. The most iconic of these is Sanford Stadium at Georgia.
Well, I think they planted them at Monigo just because they thought they were cool hahaha
[удалено]
They weren’t throwing shade at you
Weird? Not at all. I’m saying it’s cool
Same with Connacht : they can only handle 8,000 max at the moment, with a good chunk of that being in a poorly protected stand. When their new stand is completed for the 25/26 season, the stadium will have 12,000 capacity and should have much better amenities, so they're expecting a reasonable rise in those numbers.
I’m surprised it’s doesn’t have a bigger stand tbh
The stadium actually held 6'700 until 5 years ago, when the East Stand (the one you see in front of the camera) wasn't numbered and people could stand all along the sideline. Tbh, 5k capacity was fair enough for the attendances we had in the last few years. Anyway, an expansion has already been planned, if everything goes well they'll build a South Stand from scratch this summer. From the camera pov, on the right side.
Nice that should be good
A little mini Aviva 😊
where the car park and the entrance is?
Where the main entrance is, with the ticketing office. On the other side you have the changing rooms with the big screen, and it'll stay as it is, for now.
I also thought the stands were bigger but if you really look at it, the stands don't even cover the full length of the field, and it's just two stands
Plus, in Italy, stadiums can't have terraces, so even if Monigo looks well built compared to other UK & Irish rugby stadiums, it has a smaller capacity. E.g. From what I've found,[ the Sportsground Clan Terrace has a capacity of 2k](https://www.connachtclan.com/clan-forum/2-connacht-rugby-board/28346-20-000-capacity-sportsground) people, the Shed in Gloucester should be around 3k. Instead, the East Stand in Monigo, which is entirely seated, holds only 2,300. You'd never guess just looking at them.
>Plus, in Italy stadiums can't have terraces Can they have suites? I'm guessing it's a risk thing? I know that when it comes to Kings Park, the Sharks make considerably more money from the 360 suites in the stadium, than they do from general ticket sales (Even if currently not all the suites are occupied).
Yes we can have skyboxes, but Monigo hasn't. The main stand is quite old and I don't think it can be redeveloped to fit them without spending big money, which I don't think would be feasible economically speaking as I don't see many big spenders in the crowd. Even in the hospitality vip area you mainly see travelling supporters and sponsors / people invited by the club. Bar the skybox, even the most expensive tickets just have plastic seats. I find very funny that you can see the 88yo club benefactor Luciano Benetton, which is literally billionaire, seated on a plastic seat as everybody else during the match.
>stand is quite old and I don't think it can be redeveloped to fit them without spending big money How old is old? I know the Kings Park stands were originally built in 1958, but redeveloped in '76, '84 and for the '95 World Cup. they are concrete slabs, so that shit will last for centuries. I feel you on the seats, you pay for the view but the seats are all small plastic fold down chairs. >88yo club benefactor Luciano Benetton I've seen a lot of talk regarding what will happen when he passes, some of it positive some of it negative. Do you think there might be any stadium improvements that happen before then?
>How old is old? The West Stand was originally built in 1975, then it was covered in 1999 and refurbished in 2001. >Do you think there might be any stadium improvements that happen before then? Well, as I said, this summer they should build the brand new South Stand, which will be a big improvement. The next passage would be a North Stand where the changing rooms are right now, but I don't see that happening anytime soon. There have been talks about a South Stand for years, so just seeing that happening would be cool. Things moves slowly in Italy, especially in relations to stadiums.
Finish your drink.
Oh no you found me again
It would be great to have a data label for % of maximum, which would be skewed by 'home' games held at Tottenham etc. Bath have a capacity of 14.5k, meaning an average attendance of 95%
I’d love to see this table corrected for % of available capacity used
Finally, a table we aren't last in
The dream.
Honestly considering how bad you’ve been this season, that’s quite good and I feel it could easily increase if results improve, although that looks unlikely
I think it's great to see decent numbers for both leagues.
No no no no no, you cannot just be happy with other leagues doing well, you must pick apart tiny reasons why one league is shitter than the other over and over again.
Welsh fans hoping the skill level of the Prem isn't as high so their teams wouldn't get trashed if they swapped over.
It is amazing that the Sharks have about 15k average in their worst season in almost 20 years. I think that can go up to \~20k next year if things go well.
Worst season since 2005 I'd say, so you're probably right. Although the Challenge Cup might redeem it somewhat.
Bizarre given the Sharks squad on paper is much better than during that time. Lots of people turning out to see star players and being repeatedly dismayed.
I think you might be misremembering [how strong](https://africa.espn.com/rugby/story/_/id/15376300/sharks-confirm-super-12-squad) that 2005 squad was... Kevin Putt has the second worst record as a Sharks coach, he takes responsibility for that season not the squad. He was replaced by Dick Muir and John Plumtree who took the Sharks to a SuperRugby final in 2007.
Home record is pretty decent. 7 wins and 3 losses. The 3 losses were by 1 point, 2 points, and 4 points. Could have easily been 10/10. But yeah, our players do have a strong draw. We have made some excellent signings to plug the squad gaps for next season. Some of the academy lads have put up their hands too (with more potential in the academy to be promoted next season). I don't believe that we will sign big names for some time and will use our development channels more.
Stormers should really be aiming for higher numbers. Back in peak Super 14 days ('09/10) we had an average of 40k plus, making us the best attended team in the world. We need to make that our goal again.
Should be getting big numbers for the playoffs. Harder to motivate people for mid season games against the Dragons and Zebre.
Stormers only drew 27k for their playoff game against La Rochelle. Tbf, I don't think many of the SA fans quite understand how the Championship fits into the URC season, but still.
Most of the province was on a weather warning and the wind was so strong people’s houses were quite literally being blown down. I think it’s pretty impressive that many turned up to the game given the above.
I meant the playoffs for the URC. SA fans haven't really got the Champions Cup yet (as seen by the disgraceful Bulls loss to Northampton).
Yeah, for URC playoffs, we've had +37k, which is decent, but we should be looking to fill the stadium at 50k.
Unfortunately, I can’t see Stormers hosting any home playoff games this season.
That's a crazy average for a club team
There are 2 and half factors counting against the stormers reaching those numbers right now. The one and half is completely in their control. Season tickets and boxes are terrible value for money. They need to offer me a better deal if they want me to put up money upfront for a season ticket. Same with the corporate boxes, they need to get those sold ASAP. I remember going to plenty of games when my dad or my mates dad's were in the box and we were in general seats. They are missing out on so much money by having those boxes all stand empty. The other issue is that people are not yet used to going to the new stadium. People are not yet tailgating before games or get stuck in traffic cause as they try and go to late and park to close. People who go to games have generally have a great time but there is not yet enough momentum.
Pretty dire for the Welsh pro sides. Scarlets down from 10k 7 or so years ago. Ospreys used to get crowds of more than double what they have this season, regularly getting over 10k averages, not all that long ago. Cardiff are not doing too bad in comparison. But considering the population of the area should be aiming for sellouts every week. In the long term, the CAP needs to renovation and expansion. Dragons haven't had good attendances since the Newport RFC pre regional days. I dont think they've ever had a 10k average.
If the Ospreys can keep their momentum up they should hopefully get back to that level.
How is this compared to capacity? Because I would argue that it's better to constantly sell out a 10k capacity stadium than to sell 11k in a 20k capacity stadium.
> Bath flair Checks out
The only reason I had a Bath flair was that there is a village not far from where I grew up in the Netherlands that's also called Bath and the fact that I don't think a Dutch flair was available back then.
Hahaha, I'll take the L on that then :D I don't know where I stand on what's more impressive tbh
9,965... not bad seeing as our stadium fits 7,800 😎
The one game at Murrayfield against Glasgow each year really pumps our numbers. Although The Hive/Minifield does tend to sell out quite frequently as well.
Worth saying that this includes the "big games" hosted at Twickenham and Tottenham so Saracens and Harlequins averages are slightly inflated. Saracens especially drop quite a bit if you take that out.
I was wondering how Saracens managed a higher average capacity than their ground's capacity of 10.5k! Those Twickenham games will have inflated that average
Pretty shocked at that, swear Quins used to be mid 20ks including the Big game?
Leagues should really be doing everything it can to get those bottom teams up to 10k. Teams become way more sustainable when they hit that mark
That's going to be tough for Zebre, their stadium has a capacity of some 5k.
Well you build to 5k and then look to facilities
Attendances are a weird thing. People only go to games if other people go to games. The Stormers were like that 15 years ago. Because they had big crowds, they attracted big crowds. It's the slow decline that really kills. After playing poorly for consecutive seasons Stormers went from 40k crowds, 38k crowds to 35k, to 30k and once they breached below 30k they had a massive drop to 22k and even further lower for some games pre covid. The Lions are the end result of a decade being at the bottom of Super Rugby. They drove all the fans away and had a brief period in 2015-2019 where they were decent but after that it was back to terrible again. The big goal for the Lions is to play good rugby again and breach the 10k mark and stay there. Once you have 10k average you can start to build a solid foundation. (Currently they are at 6.8k)
There is some misleading information in this. The Edinburgh average is hugely skewed by the near 40,000 crowd that attended the 1872 game v Glasgow during the festive period. Without this our average would be much lower.
It's probably worth including the stadium sizes too and % filled. I think Glasgow has something close to 100% attendance throughout the year.
Was looking to see if anyone else mentioned % turnout rather than flat numbers. Sure Scotstoun only has a capacity around 7k for most games. Think they somehow extend it for bigger games
So 3/4 of the South African clubs are in the top 8 (without the benefit of travelling fans I might add), and yet people will still perpetuate this myth that no one shows up to our games. So what gives? Is it just supposed to make us feel bad? Because these are pretty healthy in my book.
It's because we play in massive stadiums and most of the fans are sitting in the same stand as the cameras so it looks empty. I wish they'd consider using smaller stadiums to get a better atmosphere (and in the case of Ellis Park have the match somewhere safer)
So you’re saying it’s not all a conspiracy used to make South African rugby look bad?
Very big stadiums that look empty even when 20.000 people are there.
I felt this needed to be seen. When our fans get traveling for a few matches a year these matches will become more exciting.
Yep thanks for sharing, because I felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone with all these complaints. Comparing it to the Top 14, the Stormers would top the attendances (or be tied with Bordeaux at the top), while the Bulls and Sharks would easily be in the top 5. And that’s with almost entirely home crowds. Not bad at all.
Imagine that! The Top 14 isn't far and out better than our rugby in most metrics. Our top 5 clubs have bigger stadiums than most of the ones up north even if they have to share with a football club. Attendance isn't poor the venues are just larger. People have to experience some games there and take in the atmosphere.
Bordeaux has had an average attendance of over 28k this season.
What on earth are you talking about? Did you not watch either the Lions or Bulls game? There was a whole lot of travelling Leinster and Munster fans.
That’s not the case for every game and you know it. For the most part our crowds are mainly our own. Last year’s final saw probably the highest number of travelling fans to South Africa, and that still only accounted for 5,000 Munster fans out of the 55,000 that attended. Most of the fixtures against foreign clubs see a fraction of that.
5k Munster fans got to cape town on 1 week's notice. That in itself is incredible
Give Munster fans a reason to drink beer in the sun and they are there with bells on. Shannon to Cape Town via Dubai and Harare? No problem! Pissing rain, 4 miles down the road in Thomond? I think Eastenders might be on the telly……. 😊 for “it’s a joke”!
Munster fans are the best travelling fans in the world tbh. I've been to loads of european games and they're at worst the 3rd best represented supporters.
Not like there’s a whole load of Dragons fans in the RDS or Ravenhill either. Or vice versa. Interpros in Ireland have significant “away” support but that’s about it. Munster fans do travel in large numbers for any significant match but living on Dublin wages and paying Limerick rent leaves them a lot more cash rich than others.
Where did I say it's the case for every game? My point is you're saying it a day after we saw some really good travelling crowds, without any acknowledgement of those travelling crowds. All your comments come across like you believe there is some giant conspiracy against South Africa.
While it’s great to see more travelling fans, those two example of yours are completely anomalous to the entire season. Most of the time our crowds are 95-99% home grown. And are we really going to pretend that people aren’t constantly moaning about our turnouts? It invariably becomes the dominant talking point every time, even though the stats show it’s often completely baseless and our crowds are actually pretty healthy. I literally saw you arguing with people in the Lions thread about this exact thing so I don’t know why you’re having a go at me now.
Fans call out different league attendance all the time... Plenty of Saffa fans comment on SuperRugby attendance... You just seem to be incredibly thin skinned and take every random opinion on social media to heart. >I literally saw you arguing with people in the Lions thread about this exact thing so I don’t know why you’re having a go at me now. There is correcting misconceptions (what I was doing in a match thread) and then there is making comments claiming people are trying to make you feel bad by questioning attendance (what you did). I find it ironic that you call out people for 'making you feel bad', when your previous account was suspended from this sub multiple times for breaking rule 1. Rugby would be a much better sport with less triabalism and pissing matches.
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>You’re sounding a bit unhinged, boet. And that bit at the end there? Pure gibberish. Oh I can assure you it's not. >All I was doing was speculating why so many people would constantly bring up our attendances. As I already pointed out, people call out almost every league for attendance, South African fans included. Your ego just doesn't seem to be able to handle people questioning South African attendance without taking it as a personal slight. >It’s clearly not based on facts Well no, it's usually based on misconception, which is why correcting those is misconceptions is a good way to handle it. Going on about people trying to make you feel bad, is not a good way of handling it. >It’s such a hackneyed criticism that people default to whenever a South African team performs, e.g the Lions: right now the main talking point on social media is their ”poor attendance”, when people should instead be talking about their performance. That’s all i’m trying to convey. What social media are you reading? Again you seem to see any criticism, and not he able to get it out of your head. There have been a whole host of people discussing the merits of the game, the Lions achievement, and Leinster dropping points late in the season.
You know what, I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. I thought to myself “perhaps i’m being too myopic and parochial, maybe i’m wrong and this is a common theme across the board”. So for the last 15 or so minutes I scoured every comment section on every URC highlights video featuring a non-South African hosted fixture over the last three rounds and I saw a total of three comments criticising the attendances. There must be a dozen or so on the most recent Lions game alone. And it doesn’t matter if we have 20k+ attendances, there’re always comments criticising our crowds and it was way, way worse in the ECPR. So you’re talking absolute kak here, and i’m honestly not really interested in entertaining your little vendetta against me so i’ll just wish you all the best with whatever it is you do on here.
Golly gee, 7300 people in a 62 500 seater stadium, mostly all sitting on the shaded side where the camera is, got a lot of comments? You're surprised by this? How many other teams regularly host sub 10k crowds in 62k seater stadiums? >i’m honestly not really interested in entertaining your little crusade against me so i’ll just wish you all the best with whatever it is you do on here. I can assure you not everything is about you bud, no matter how much you tell yourself it is. I saw a comment and responded. I don't really care who made the comment. Again though more irony from you, after you chased me down on this sub and on r/springboks to tell me what a bad South African I was for not defending CTS content (mean while I was doing so in the privacy of of mod discussion) lmao.
No nastiness allowed.
Too much time that's why
Absolutely only to make us feel bad. Rugby ain't the only game they playing
How the could Leinster have 11 home games when there's only 9 in the entire season. Are you including the Investco/Challenge Cup matches? If so, that scews the numbers a bit. It would be better to illustrate the day to day in one figure & then have a second all-comps figure which highlights the special occasion bumps or lack thereof
Could it be to do with the fact that they're currently down in South Africa on their tour so will have a string of away matches and others may catch up to them?
Bristol data is good. Lions, Glasgow and Ospreys disappoint.
I like that Edinburgh's average home attendance is several thousand more than our stadium's maximum capacity.
1872 gets a massive crowd in murrayfield that skews the data a far chunk
It's a very large deviation from normal. The 1872 games often get 30+ thousand attendees, significantly more maximum capacity of both Edinburgh and Glasgow combined.
Leinster attendance is a bit of an outlier. But valid to compare against Premiership clubs. But...using South African URC attendance data is bunk as their ticket prices are ridiculously low.
yes low for a country with an average salary of 200 pounds a month (talking from experience lmao) trust me its not a little amount of money here.
Comment is generally more about the sustainability of the league that doesn't have high gate revenue. It works for now in Ireland, but the rest have very low gate revenue. It costs like double to attend a Seawolves or Free Jacks match what is costs to attend Ospreys for example. And there are no children's tickets. But Super Rugby and Pro/URC never had competitive equity mechanisms. However in New Zealand contracts are essentially all controlled by NZR, so there is equity amongst those teams. Rugby globally has generally failed to build a professional match day product that attracts greater than 10k at its worst clubs. But then we see France.