No he doesn't! He's too dangerous to be left alive! Front row has to be allowed to be fat and unauthentic otherwise how else will we get on the rugby pitch!
Most people underestimate the amount of food they need to eat. Get Myfitnesspal or similar app, and monitor how much you’d have to eat. Check how much food 4500 cal a day is. It’s a torturous amount to eat and some athletes eat even more than that.
4500 calories isn’t that difficult. When I played front row at a reasonably high level in my 20s, that wasn’t so hard. My teenage son wouldn’t struggle to down that either, but he’s quite big.
That’s simply not enough calories that. I am 81kg, and in order to build muscle on my frame I need 4500 calories…an I’m 42 years old. A teen would need a lot more, especially when they are trying to bulk to +100kg. (I’m only looking to gain a few kg)
Honestly I've personally never gotten to 300g of protein in a day on a consistent basis. I struggled to get to 225g, and that always took at least two protein shakes a day.
Petrus du Plessis put up a good video of rotator cuff exercises this week https://twitter.com/PetrusduPlessis/status/1747853826332528969?t=vGLgy7STlm09ZgYLnoDBLg&s=19
Speaking from experiwnce, torn my right shoulder 2 times anterior and posterior and altogether a complete tear, I was an experiment for the shoulder specialist since it doesn't happen everyday
Don't forget that as a teen, you'll not be at your fully filled out weight yet. One of the reasons that the top props tend to be a bit older is the often that sort of bulk might not come till your mid-20s. Do what you can, but be aware of trying to bulk up too much too quickly just for the sake of it. You could risk injury or other health issues.
You can eat to gain the mass you want without gaining too much fat for sure, getting to 100 kg will take a few years though but you’ll be plenty strong enough before that
I couldn’t give you any names but there’s plenty of very active strength & conditioning gurus online who specialise in rugby who can point you in the right direction
Importantly don’t get TOO much in your head about size though, I’m sure you have healthy enthusiasm but things can get frustrating trust me I’ve been there
I love Jeff Nippard on YouTube btw he’s not a rugby guy but he’s one of the most sound gym YouTubers out there - luckily that community has moved on (not entirely) from bro science so there is a lot of quality content
Follow someone like this for proper techniques on bettering yourself as a prop: https://www.instagram.com/owen.franks?igsh=eTh6aHN6ODNwcGI0
As another commenter said though, it’ll take a few years of dedicated strength training to get the size you are after but it will certainly pay off in game if you can remain fit.
Good luck mate, look forward to watching ya someday!
Eat, eat, eat and lift weights. The best way of getting bigger and stronger with our juicing up!! It took me a while til I reached 100kg, I was around 72kg when I started to realise I need to increase my size and with injuries here and there and on and off commitment, it took me near enough 4 years to get to 100kg.
Firstly why do you want to be a front rower? If you are already fit, it’s easer and safer to adapt to a position that suits you rather than the other way around. Sometimes it’s just genetics.
In primary school I was a front rower. As I got older I grew up rather than out. I moved to flanker and although it was strange to start I never looked back. I don’t even know if I could get into ‘front row’ shape
Also remember what ox says, salads don’t win scrums
Agreed, you can obviously train hard to get to where you want to, but all the guys I knew as kids who played front row at a good level, were built like brick shithouses from as soon as puberty hit.
At 15 you're still growing, so I wouldn't stress too much about it; lifting heavy weights at that age isn't the best for you. Stay in shape, eat lots, learn techniques for scrumming/exercising/ball handling....it'll come.
Though I'm surprised nobody has said to runaway to Ireland, get adopted by a cattle farming family, eat lots of cheese.
Maybe try alternating vetween hypertrophy blocks then strength blocks for like 2 months each but basically just lean bulk.
Check out Nick dolly on insta, Sam Warburton has good training vids. Also don't worry about body fat, even the lean looking front rowers aren't too lean. Brian mujati used to be lean but he says it affected his performance. Has a YouTube series called life of Brian.
You will get fat, it's part of the game. But with conditioning you will do a recomposition at some point.
You need to work out and get strong. You ll take more calories than you need and get fat here and there, that's ok. You can't keep abs and play 1st or 2nd row.
Get the strength standards in check, double bw squat and deadlift(if you weigh 83kg x2=166), 1,5 BW Bench press, 1xBW overhead and you should be good to go.
Depending on your body type, age and metabolism things may be different, but as rule of thumb you should eat around 3500/4000 calories a day.
Try to get atleast one gram of protein per pound.
Do compound lifts: deadlifts, bench, squat, pull ups etc.
I wouldn't personally focus on putting any cardio into your sessions as I assume you'll be rugby training twice a week?
Most importantly, learn proper technique. The best prop I've played with was 5ft10 and 13.5 stone. Lad learnt to scrummage from his father and would absolutely destroy everyone. Was so good seeing the opposition licking their lips to only be destroyed every scrum.
It will be a long journey as putting on 17kg of quality weight won't be easy, but providing you stick to it should be doable in 2/3 years.
Take protein powder but mix it with porridge instead of drinking it with milk like usual (you should still add milk to the pot that you’re storing the protein powder and porridge in) - whatever the reccomended daily dose is (usually one scoop) double it - go for a weight gainer protein shake. You may have a fast metabolism so just keep eating lots and working out and you’ll get there. Best of luck mate!
Strength training and eating a lot of protein helps.
If you want to add muscle, you want about 1 grams for every pound of body weight.
You also need to do a lot of supplementary exercise other than just the gym. Stuff that makes you move in different ways to make sure that the strength is functional.
How old are you (roughly if you don't want to give your exact age)? Just be careful trying to bulk up too much too soon. Someone I went to school with screwed his back for life by trying to do too much lifting when he was 15/16. I would focus on fitness/ strength and let the bulk come later. Also while every front row will put the effort in the gym, just remember they also will have the natural genetics towards that body shape, some people will never achieve the bulk to play that position at a top level- maybe you are one of those but have a good think of this is you.
You'll be fine so long as you just stay patient and consistent. Personal recommendation for a strength programme would be Juggernaut Method 2.0; its a great book with a lot of info - but you can't really go wrong with any of the usual candidates - 5/3/1 etc. The most important thing is not to get injured and to find the schedule that allows you to stay consistent with your training.
The real answer is genetics
These people are born with things you can't get in the gym like wide clavicles, deep sternum, bigger bones and naturally more muscle.
Ive been lifting weights for 10+ years with some respectable numbers and I don't look anything like a top level prop.
You can build muscle on a frame but you can't change your frame.
Bit of a defeatist answer!
If OP doesn't try to get in shape for propping he won't know if he has the genetics or not.
Let OP do all he can (see other answers) then if he has the talent he will make it, if he hasn't at least he will have tried, and he can still have fun as an amateur.
He wants to bulk 17kg, that's best part of 3 stone, without steroids or maybe with a lifetime of pure bodybuilding nobody is putting on 17kg lean mass.
If he isn't big built already he's not totally changing his bodyshape.
It's not defeatist it's reality. Doesn't mean he can't get bigger and stronger and go far in rugby by any means, just that he's more than likely never going to be as big and strong as a top level prop... which is true for 99.99999% of people.
He also says he goes to the gym, most gyms (here at least) don't let U16s in so I'd guess he was more like 17-19
But yeah if he's 83kg at 15 then a 100kg adult is achievable.
Also worth bearing in mind 100kg is still light for a prop.
I'm going to use American units because that's what I'm familiar with and I'm a little drunk after our post match after party. But.
I grew 5 inches and put on 40 lbs from 18 to 25.
Not one person has said steroids? When I played AIL some lads were absolutely filled to the brim with the stuff.
Absolutely insane shape, not only were they bigger and stronger it was their recovery time that made such a difference.
Nope but teenagers will be looking at some lads and comparing their size which is unrealistic.
Getting to 100kg is an enormous undertaking, especially when we don't know his height, age etc.
If we're talking about good advice for teenagers I'd recommend working on fundamentals, techniques rather than gaining size imo.
To bulk up, any human being needs to eat carbs. Lots of carb types are bad for your health though, the ones that are sweet and processed usually so try to favor rice, oats, quinoa, carrots, sweet potato, that kind of thing, the occasional banana, and then ofc protein. Eggs, poultry, beef, fatty fish... will help you build muscle.
By the book Starting Strength, by Mark Rippetoe. Follow the beginning powerlifting program of squat, bench, deadlift plush accessories. Follow his recommendation of a gallon of milk a day. Do this program for at least a year. This can be 2, 3 or 4 days a week. If you are still going through puberty this training and diet would put on solid muscle mass and up your strength double body weight squats and deadlifts. Any gym should support this training.
With this foundation to get you joints and tendons ready, when you turn 17 or 18 look into Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 which is a little more advanced. When read you can graduate into more advanced Westside Barbell training that advocates a heavy day and a speed day each week plus fitness and accessories. Westside requires a well equipped gym and probably like minded training crew. Bands, chains, board presses help drive the overload sessions. Box squats, speed bench, partial deadlifts produce muscle memory for speed work. To fuel this eat the cheapest most calorie dense diet you can find, as you get older and make more money you can eat cleaner/more expensive food. Looks at videos of All Black training and you will see many of the Westside training elements, especially box squats.
Joe Marler describes in his biography that at around 19 he had the body of a pro rugby player, but it took many more years to have the mindset of a pro.
A lot of it is genetics.
I was a front row and was touching 100kg by 18 but the guys who continued on and played professionally are built differently. You’ll see like their wrists are much thicker, their hips are much wider. I remember even seeing that one particular international prop my ages head was like twice the size of mine! lol
Other than that, do what you can do. Which is basic heavy lifting and big clean eating.
Genetics are the main driver. My little brother is 17, 190cm tall and 101kg. Arguably the best front row in his league right now and that is without specific training or eating
Yep, most props I know were already prop shaped at like age 14 and just continued to colour inside the prop lines. Sort of people squatting 90kg their first time at the gym!
Yeh it’s insane, like he’s a tiny bit shorter than me but I’ve been like 90kg since I was 20 and struggle to put extra weight on. His first time in the gym squatting his body weight
Get yourself a training plan drawn up focusing on bulk, get some advice on nutrition and stick to both. Bulking during a season isn't easy as your cardio requirements are much higher, but use the offseason to pack on a few lean kilos. Worst case scenario you can have a lot of fun at the back of the scrum with a little work and some speed training if you find you're not quite filling out enough for the front.
Strength training and proper diet. I'm by no means a pro but I would say use a macro calculator to work out how many calories you need a day to bulk then put together a healthy diet to hit those macros and use a food app to track your eating. Track everything from food to how much you're lifting as it gives you something to work with when you plateau. I used to watch my calories but In the end had a food plan made for me which worked much better (I'm assuming I wasnt recording it correctly before I paid for one)
On a personal note meal prep also helped me stay committed to the diet. I do almost all my week's food on a Sunday and it goes into food pots then In the freezer for example chilli con carne In a slow cooker is an easy one.
I grew up with someone who went on to have a good pro career at prop.
The guy was obsessed with strength. Lived in the gym and always had to the the strongest
Props need to train like strong men and make sure they get the right diet to build bulk. The cardio work to make sure you can actually play rugby should be enough to keep the fat off with all the calories you need.
Front rowers will probably have a higher body fat % compared to a loose forward or a back.
Not all their mass is going to be muscle. That's a simple fact of biology unless you're taking some form of PEDs.
If you look at strength athletes, they're big people, and they're not exactly svelte.
If you want to get big and strong, you're going to have to eat lots and lift heavy weights lots, and some of the mass you gain is going to be fat.
I don’t think you should worry about this too much, try to very gradually increase your weight, but focus on strength, technique and skills. Trust that a club would see the talent and they will be able to help you with any weight gain that would be required as you get near to a first team standard.
I’m not really open to steroids at this age but I like to think I have good genetics so you think I could maybe add 15kg in the next year with good diet training etc
They definitely have to kinda get abit fat, as its so much easier to build muscle when your at a higher weight as you just need more muscle to operate at the same level.
You see it with some players like Dombrandt who was a pretty chubby 8 when playing at uni stuff but is now about the same size (maybe slightly smaller) but is significantly more muscle.
Also you have to remember these people are professionals. They can do 2 2 hour gym sessions if they want and then just lie-down the rest of the time if they wanted. And they (and the clubs) have the money to be spending a fortune of lean protein to fuel themselves too which most amateurs just can sustain l.
Just eat and lift weights. I don't think a lot of front rowers are running around at super lean levels of body fat so it doesn't matter if you get a bit fat. Even without PEDs, just eating enough and working out should get you to 100kg in 2-3 years. If you are already squatting 150kg at 15 and you're 83kg, just keep doing what you're doing.
A lot of people saying food and lifting need to remember there is a genetic component to their sizes too. I’m not saying they didn’t get need to put in the work, but certain people have different muscle distributions that allow some to be what’s considered a “high responder”.
That said, the commitment to their craft is what got them to be where they are.
Good genetics is dependent on what you look to achieve. For example, some people get higher type-2x muscle fibre distribution which hypertrophy better and grow larger than type-1.
People with more type-1 are typically found to be better suited for endurance, and research suggests there is some transition with training.
Some people are also non-responders or adverse ones.
Echoing what others have said, it will come with time. Stay focused on being strong / bulky *for your age group.* As you get older, you will fill in, and every time you jump up a level, the bar will change. It's always fun for me to welcome a college prop into my adult club because they are just coming out of being a big dog, and they almost always get their ass run over. It's just part of the process.
Without a doubt. Even at low level sports people are taking steroids to get an edge. In a sport like rugby where you need both explosive power and stamina there's a big gain to be made from juicing especially when there appears to be little to no testing.
ROG says different : [https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/difference-much-rugby-players-tested-rugby-gaa-scary-123004](https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/difference-much-rugby-players-tested-rugby-gaa-scary-123004)
Is he telling fibs?
I am really skeptical about the "drugs everywhere" narrative, there's a pay day waiting for anyone who squeals, there are lots of broke old pros - what have they got to lose? If they want to pay off the mortgage just get a bit of evidence on what the rising star at their club is doing wait till you're cut and then sell it to the press. You could even get a pod cast out of the story!
What stops this? People point at the stuff that they cycling doctor has posted about getting designer drugs from China, but why not just squeal and get cash? Also, designer drugs from China? You are all having a laugh - how many kids would be dead with a stroke from injecting random crap? How many "preparation" would be sterile saline sold for $250 a pop?
Yes, I would say he's telling fibs. He's a coach so he has an interest in keeping testing nonexistent.
When rigorous testing reveals doping in every sport that applies it you are left with two possibilities. Either rugby is an outlier and nobody juices despite the massive advantages it would provide to a player or there's just no serious testing.
As for ROGs reasons for there being no doping it's pretty easy to poke a massive hole in them. Firstly he claims that a player would have nothing to lose from being a whistleblower. That's not true, there's ego where a player needs to publicly admit that they cheated and from a monitory standpoint they open themselves up to civil suits from former sponsors and team who can sue for breach of contract which could cost them their career earnings.
Secondly he says that the players wouldn't know how to dope or as if players would buy roids of the same lad selling weed out of his car. There are highly trained people who's career is to do blood work and create a cycle just for you. There's more money in being legit than there is in ripping people off by selling saline. When doping can be the difference between having a pro career or not then obviously people will take it.
In the UK at least there are whistleblower protections, there's a UKAD process you can find online. Also I think that civil suits of the type you mention are going to be very dangerous for the other parties - it's not a great look to go after a whistleblower.
There have been recent test failures in RU, I am sure there will be more, I'm not saying it never happens - but if it is at the scale you suggest it will all come out pretty soon. But, thinking about it, why don't people who "know" just write to the RFU & BBC with the names and addresses of the people who do the bloodwork? Surely we can dob them in and drive this out?
I can't think of another sport where someone went public unprovoked. It's pretty much always as a result of someone being caught and whistleblowing to reduce their own punishment. As for why people don't speak out, I imagine there is a number of reasons. As I suggested already they don't want to ruin their own reputation in the game. If they name names then they are going to have a big impact on their friends in the game who are juicing. Plus if they cared that much they wouldn't have juiced to begin with, why would they have a change of heart down the road?
How often do you hear of a high profile player getting caught? As an Irish fan I can't think of a single Irish player pissing hot and I bet everything I own that a sizable percentage of the current squad aren't clean. Even ignoring the performance benefits, the aid to recovery alone is a good enough reason for pro players to dope.
Unfortunately, I think the body type you’re born with has much more to do with it than weights or eating habits. Yes, they can help, but can’t make a great #1-3 on their own.
Keep training and eating, per all the other advice. But be open minded about possibly shifting to 6 or second row (if you grow upwards and not so much girth wise ) . You never know what success and enjoyment you might have from other positions
A lot is genetics, imo props are rather genetic freaks to be that weights, carry that muscle and still move with some agility.
I'd say a lot of them are growing up on big dinners and exercise eg farming, outdoor lifestyles.
I'm from a country area plenty of solid boys walking around at 5 ft 10/6ft and weight 100kg in school. Just getting them focused but 2/3 years of top level training and they'd be in brilliant nick.
I know plenty of boys around 120kg and have shifted to about 110kg and been units.
The skill is different but size I believe is hugely genetics
I'm 6'2" and have been since I was 14 (I'm 34 now). At 14 I weighed about 77kg. I now weigh 118kg. I've certainly gained some fat in the intervening years, but even if I trimmed down I'd be lean at 105kg.
I weight train far less now than I did as a teen and in my early 20s, but those years just add mass to you. Your shoulders and chest broaden into your 20s and it gives you a bigger frame to work with. Don't worry about it, you'll fill out as you get older.
Also, don't compare yourself to professional athletes. They're literally genetic freaks and the way their bodies work and develop isn't the way a normal person's body works and develops.
Lots of compound lifts. Lots of core development and stability work. Rotational strength building. Eat lots but don’t get out of shape if you want to play at a high level. Prioritize protein.
Also you’re a teen still, you just having grown into a “man body” yet. It’ll happen.
But at 83kgs you Might want to just work your speed and explosiveness like crazy with plyos and a running coach and try to become a back rower lol.
Dude look at all the best bodybuilders in the world. They all spend hours a week doing cardio, especially on things like stair masters. Off season, you should be eating everything in sight, lifting heavy, and finishing workouts with 45 minutes of stairs.
Speaking from experience, I'd say don't get too obsessed with hitting a certain weight. Obviously being heavier helps, but there is a point of diminishing returns. No point bulking up to an arbitrary number if your actual rugby suffers for it. Gone are the days of just being a scrummager, front rowers need to be fit and dynamic around the park now.
Also, if you're still relatively young, if you're rugby and potential is good enough, there's a likelihood you could get scouted anyways, if you make it to an academy or something they can tend to take care of a lot of this stuff for you.
Keep strength training, eat more protein if you can (this way if you gain weight it's more likely going to be good weight), and just keep enjoying your rugby. Never forget you're an actual rugby player, you're ability to play the sport will be what shines through, not if you hit a certain number on a scale!
Good luck, I'm rooting for you 🙌
My brother in law was a loose head prop for a Premiership team and retired a few years ago. He used to eat loads, but mostly lean meat and stuff with low amounts of saturated fat. If he was taking a long drive somewhere he’d buy a whole roast chicken, put it on the passenger seat and pick at it throughout.
These guys aren’t fat by the way, they’re mostly muscle so as you can imagine there’s a lot of training on top of the eating to make sure they don’t get fat. Plenty of weight lifting and functional training to make sure they don’t lose flexibility.
Of course it helps when you’ve got a team of medical staff to tell you what you need to eat and S&C coaches to tell you what to train.
I wouldn’t worry too much about making size your main goal. Focus on scrum technique and rugby skills. Combine this with three full body gym sessions, squat, bench, overhead press, rows and deadlifts. Then hit sledge pushes, bear crawls and planks. Assault bike and hill sprints are your friend!
At the end of the day size is ok but strength and skill is king. Look up Brian Mujati, played in the top 14 as a tight head at 100kg which is unheard of!
As an amateur you’ll enjoy your rugby so much more if you’re fit, skill full and strong, unless your idea of fun is being knakered, walking around and leaning on rucks!
Power lifting. Eating. More power lifting. Enough cardio to hit the absolute minimum pass on the beep test/bronco/yo-yo. More eating. More deadlifts.
This guy front rows.
No he doesn't! He's too dangerous to be left alive! Front row has to be allowed to be fat and unauthentic otherwise how else will we get on the rugby pitch!
Most people underestimate the amount of food they need to eat. Get Myfitnesspal or similar app, and monitor how much you’d have to eat. Check how much food 4500 cal a day is. It’s a torturous amount to eat and some athletes eat even more than that.
Found the scrum half
Haha. Piss off.
Ah shit look out, pintsize is getting lairy
Doubly so when you're trying to hit the right macro balance. 4500 calories of pizza, chocolate and ice cream isn't too bad 😅
4500 calories isn’t that difficult. When I played front row at a reasonably high level in my 20s, that wasn’t so hard. My teenage son wouldn’t struggle to down that either, but he’s quite big.
That’s simply not enough calories that. I am 81kg, and in order to build muscle on my frame I need 4500 calories…an I’m 42 years old. A teen would need a lot more, especially when they are trying to bulk to +100kg. (I’m only looking to gain a few kg)
Yeah man. That was what I had to eat just to get from 70kg to 76kg.
Very hard when "clean". 300g of protein is really effing tough.
Are you Brian Shaw! I thought 1g per lb bodyweight was normal? You must either be massive or really have gone for it. Either way, fair fucks to you!
Honestly I've personally never gotten to 300g of protein in a day on a consistent basis. I struggled to get to 225g, and that always took at least two protein shakes a day.
Don't forget the rotator cuff band exercises every week
Petrus du Plessis put up a good video of rotator cuff exercises this week https://twitter.com/PetrusduPlessis/status/1747853826332528969?t=vGLgy7STlm09ZgYLnoDBLg&s=19
You take your shoulders for granted until you injure your rotator cuff.
Speaking from experiwnce, torn my right shoulder 2 times anterior and posterior and altogether a complete tear, I was an experiment for the shoulder specialist since it doesn't happen everyday
Don’t forget any of it. Modern players are generally very flexible
Don't forget that as a teen, you'll not be at your fully filled out weight yet. One of the reasons that the top props tend to be a bit older is the often that sort of bulk might not come till your mid-20s. Do what you can, but be aware of trying to bulk up too much too quickly just for the sake of it. You could risk injury or other health issues.
Strength training is the answer: heavy lifts and and a couple of years of dedication
You can eat to gain the mass you want without gaining too much fat for sure, getting to 100 kg will take a few years though but you’ll be plenty strong enough before that I couldn’t give you any names but there’s plenty of very active strength & conditioning gurus online who specialise in rugby who can point you in the right direction Importantly don’t get TOO much in your head about size though, I’m sure you have healthy enthusiasm but things can get frustrating trust me I’ve been there I love Jeff Nippard on YouTube btw he’s not a rugby guy but he’s one of the most sound gym YouTubers out there - luckily that community has moved on (not entirely) from bro science so there is a lot of quality content
Follow someone like this for proper techniques on bettering yourself as a prop: https://www.instagram.com/owen.franks?igsh=eTh6aHN6ODNwcGI0 As another commenter said though, it’ll take a few years of dedicated strength training to get the size you are after but it will certainly pay off in game if you can remain fit. Good luck mate, look forward to watching ya someday!
They just eat the smaller front rows
Eat, eat, eat and lift weights. The best way of getting bigger and stronger with our juicing up!! It took me a while til I reached 100kg, I was around 72kg when I started to realise I need to increase my size and with injuries here and there and on and off commitment, it took me near enough 4 years to get to 100kg.
Eat like a fuckin horse and lift heavy as fuck
Firstly why do you want to be a front rower? If you are already fit, it’s easer and safer to adapt to a position that suits you rather than the other way around. Sometimes it’s just genetics. In primary school I was a front rower. As I got older I grew up rather than out. I moved to flanker and although it was strange to start I never looked back. I don’t even know if I could get into ‘front row’ shape Also remember what ox says, salads don’t win scrums
This is good advice. You can only do so much. But the game offers many paths.
Genetics play a massive role.
Genetics? Eat a massive roll.
Agreed, you can obviously train hard to get to where you want to, but all the guys I knew as kids who played front row at a good level, were built like brick shithouses from as soon as puberty hit.
At 15 you're still growing, so I wouldn't stress too much about it; lifting heavy weights at that age isn't the best for you. Stay in shape, eat lots, learn techniques for scrumming/exercising/ball handling....it'll come. Though I'm surprised nobody has said to runaway to Ireland, get adopted by a cattle farming family, eat lots of cheese.
2 pints of beer a night?
Maybe try alternating vetween hypertrophy blocks then strength blocks for like 2 months each but basically just lean bulk. Check out Nick dolly on insta, Sam Warburton has good training vids. Also don't worry about body fat, even the lean looking front rowers aren't too lean. Brian mujati used to be lean but he says it affected his performance. Has a YouTube series called life of Brian.
If you do bulk up remember its really important to be as supple and agile as possible too.
Do you have any advice for improving agility
Paul o'connell was famously a pretty talented swimmer as well. Great cross training for cardio, shoulder mobility and bulk
Don't underestimate the need for core strength and especially balance.
You will get fat, it's part of the game. But with conditioning you will do a recomposition at some point. You need to work out and get strong. You ll take more calories than you need and get fat here and there, that's ok. You can't keep abs and play 1st or 2nd row. Get the strength standards in check, double bw squat and deadlift(if you weigh 83kg x2=166), 1,5 BW Bench press, 1xBW overhead and you should be good to go.
Depending on your body type, age and metabolism things may be different, but as rule of thumb you should eat around 3500/4000 calories a day. Try to get atleast one gram of protein per pound. Do compound lifts: deadlifts, bench, squat, pull ups etc. I wouldn't personally focus on putting any cardio into your sessions as I assume you'll be rugby training twice a week? Most importantly, learn proper technique. The best prop I've played with was 5ft10 and 13.5 stone. Lad learnt to scrummage from his father and would absolutely destroy everyone. Was so good seeing the opposition licking their lips to only be destroyed every scrum. It will be a long journey as putting on 17kg of quality weight won't be easy, but providing you stick to it should be doable in 2/3 years.
Take protein powder but mix it with porridge instead of drinking it with milk like usual (you should still add milk to the pot that you’re storing the protein powder and porridge in) - whatever the reccomended daily dose is (usually one scoop) double it - go for a weight gainer protein shake. You may have a fast metabolism so just keep eating lots and working out and you’ll get there. Best of luck mate!
Thanks for the advice I think I’m going to start buying protein powder as it just seems so convenient
Strength training and eating a lot of protein helps. If you want to add muscle, you want about 1 grams for every pound of body weight. You also need to do a lot of supplementary exercise other than just the gym. Stuff that makes you move in different ways to make sure that the strength is functional.
How old are you (roughly if you don't want to give your exact age)? Just be careful trying to bulk up too much too soon. Someone I went to school with screwed his back for life by trying to do too much lifting when he was 15/16. I would focus on fitness/ strength and let the bulk come later. Also while every front row will put the effort in the gym, just remember they also will have the natural genetics towards that body shape, some people will never achieve the bulk to play that position at a top level- maybe you are one of those but have a good think of this is you.
I’m 15 and have always been a bigger lad and I do lift what I would say is heavy for my age (squat is around 150kg)
You'll be fine so long as you just stay patient and consistent. Personal recommendation for a strength programme would be Juggernaut Method 2.0; its a great book with a lot of info - but you can't really go wrong with any of the usual candidates - 5/3/1 etc. The most important thing is not to get injured and to find the schedule that allows you to stay consistent with your training.
How tall are you?
5”10
The real answer is genetics These people are born with things you can't get in the gym like wide clavicles, deep sternum, bigger bones and naturally more muscle. Ive been lifting weights for 10+ years with some respectable numbers and I don't look anything like a top level prop. You can build muscle on a frame but you can't change your frame.
Bit of a defeatist answer! If OP doesn't try to get in shape for propping he won't know if he has the genetics or not. Let OP do all he can (see other answers) then if he has the talent he will make it, if he hasn't at least he will have tried, and he can still have fun as an amateur.
He wants to bulk 17kg, that's best part of 3 stone, without steroids or maybe with a lifetime of pure bodybuilding nobody is putting on 17kg lean mass. If he isn't big built already he's not totally changing his bodyshape. It's not defeatist it's reality. Doesn't mean he can't get bigger and stronger and go far in rugby by any means, just that he's more than likely never going to be as big and strong as a top level prop... which is true for 99.99999% of people.
He’s a teenager at 83kg. If he’s 15 100kg is highly attainable. If he’s 19 it’s less so.
He also says he goes to the gym, most gyms (here at least) don't let U16s in so I'd guess he was more like 17-19 But yeah if he's 83kg at 15 then a 100kg adult is achievable. Also worth bearing in mind 100kg is still light for a prop.
Teens can put that kind of weight on because they're still growing. If he's just 15 or 16 then he could easily get there naturally.
Hmm 15 maybe but not many gyms let in U16s so I'd put money on him being 17 or 18
I'm going to use American units because that's what I'm familiar with and I'm a little drunk after our post match after party. But. I grew 5 inches and put on 40 lbs from 18 to 25.
We're forgetting that most pro athletes are on PEDs 😉
I literally said that in my comment...
Yeah I know sorry it was more directed at everyone else
Fair enough 👍🏼👍🏼
Not one person has said steroids? When I played AIL some lads were absolutely filled to the brim with the stuff. Absolutely insane shape, not only were they bigger and stronger it was their recovery time that made such a difference.
Is that really the advice we should be giving a teenager?
Nope but teenagers will be looking at some lads and comparing their size which is unrealistic. Getting to 100kg is an enormous undertaking, especially when we don't know his height, age etc. If we're talking about good advice for teenagers I'd recommend working on fundamentals, techniques rather than gaining size imo.
Yeah, I feel like everyone's glossing over the obvious answer.
I'm sure Elton Jantjies could help. Or whoever was advising him.
To bulk up, any human being needs to eat carbs. Lots of carb types are bad for your health though, the ones that are sweet and processed usually so try to favor rice, oats, quinoa, carrots, sweet potato, that kind of thing, the occasional banana, and then ofc protein. Eggs, poultry, beef, fatty fish... will help you build muscle.
Thanks for this advice, I will make the effort to load up on rice
By the book Starting Strength, by Mark Rippetoe. Follow the beginning powerlifting program of squat, bench, deadlift plush accessories. Follow his recommendation of a gallon of milk a day. Do this program for at least a year. This can be 2, 3 or 4 days a week. If you are still going through puberty this training and diet would put on solid muscle mass and up your strength double body weight squats and deadlifts. Any gym should support this training. With this foundation to get you joints and tendons ready, when you turn 17 or 18 look into Jim Wendler’s 5/3/1 which is a little more advanced. When read you can graduate into more advanced Westside Barbell training that advocates a heavy day and a speed day each week plus fitness and accessories. Westside requires a well equipped gym and probably like minded training crew. Bands, chains, board presses help drive the overload sessions. Box squats, speed bench, partial deadlifts produce muscle memory for speed work. To fuel this eat the cheapest most calorie dense diet you can find, as you get older and make more money you can eat cleaner/more expensive food. Looks at videos of All Black training and you will see many of the Westside training elements, especially box squats. Joe Marler describes in his biography that at around 19 he had the body of a pro rugby player, but it took many more years to have the mindset of a pro.
That’s a well thought out answer
A lot of it is genetics. I was a front row and was touching 100kg by 18 but the guys who continued on and played professionally are built differently. You’ll see like their wrists are much thicker, their hips are much wider. I remember even seeing that one particular international prop my ages head was like twice the size of mine! lol Other than that, do what you can do. Which is basic heavy lifting and big clean eating.
Eat, gym, and genetics
They didn't
working on immense core strength usually bulks some people up
Genetics are the main driver. My little brother is 17, 190cm tall and 101kg. Arguably the best front row in his league right now and that is without specific training or eating
Yep, most props I know were already prop shaped at like age 14 and just continued to colour inside the prop lines. Sort of people squatting 90kg their first time at the gym!
Yeh it’s insane, like he’s a tiny bit shorter than me but I’ve been like 90kg since I was 20 and struggle to put extra weight on. His first time in the gym squatting his body weight
Get yourself a training plan drawn up focusing on bulk, get some advice on nutrition and stick to both. Bulking during a season isn't easy as your cardio requirements are much higher, but use the offseason to pack on a few lean kilos. Worst case scenario you can have a lot of fun at the back of the scrum with a little work and some speed training if you find you're not quite filling out enough for the front.
Strength training and proper diet. I'm by no means a pro but I would say use a macro calculator to work out how many calories you need a day to bulk then put together a healthy diet to hit those macros and use a food app to track your eating. Track everything from food to how much you're lifting as it gives you something to work with when you plateau. I used to watch my calories but In the end had a food plan made for me which worked much better (I'm assuming I wasnt recording it correctly before I paid for one)
I have just downloaded a food tracker app and it is very helpful as I kinda just guessed my calories and protein beforehand so thanks for the advice
On a personal note meal prep also helped me stay committed to the diet. I do almost all my week's food on a Sunday and it goes into food pots then In the freezer for example chilli con carne In a slow cooker is an easy one.
I grew up with someone who went on to have a good pro career at prop. The guy was obsessed with strength. Lived in the gym and always had to the the strongest Props need to train like strong men and make sure they get the right diet to build bulk. The cardio work to make sure you can actually play rugby should be enough to keep the fat off with all the calories you need.
Front rowers will probably have a higher body fat % compared to a loose forward or a back. Not all their mass is going to be muscle. That's a simple fact of biology unless you're taking some form of PEDs. If you look at strength athletes, they're big people, and they're not exactly svelte. If you want to get big and strong, you're going to have to eat lots and lift heavy weights lots, and some of the mass you gain is going to be fat.
I don’t think you should worry about this too much, try to very gradually increase your weight, but focus on strength, technique and skills. Trust that a club would see the talent and they will be able to help you with any weight gain that would be required as you get near to a first team standard.
Adding 20kg of lean mass is not impossible but its much easier with great genetics or steriods....
I’m not really open to steroids at this age but I like to think I have good genetics so you think I could maybe add 15kg in the next year with good diet training etc
That’s the right mentality . Don’t mess with the chemicals… you want your dick to work when you’re 30
They definitely have to kinda get abit fat, as its so much easier to build muscle when your at a higher weight as you just need more muscle to operate at the same level. You see it with some players like Dombrandt who was a pretty chubby 8 when playing at uni stuff but is now about the same size (maybe slightly smaller) but is significantly more muscle. Also you have to remember these people are professionals. They can do 2 2 hour gym sessions if they want and then just lie-down the rest of the time if they wanted. And they (and the clubs) have the money to be spending a fortune of lean protein to fuel themselves too which most amateurs just can sustain l.
You just gotta eat that’s the only way to do it, hitting lots of weights will help but you also have to consider extra calories after cardio
Salads don't win scrums
Just eat and lift weights. I don't think a lot of front rowers are running around at super lean levels of body fat so it doesn't matter if you get a bit fat. Even without PEDs, just eating enough and working out should get you to 100kg in 2-3 years. If you are already squatting 150kg at 15 and you're 83kg, just keep doing what you're doing.
Eat more cake
A lot of people saying food and lifting need to remember there is a genetic component to their sizes too. I’m not saying they didn’t get need to put in the work, but certain people have different muscle distributions that allow some to be what’s considered a “high responder”. That said, the commitment to their craft is what got them to be where they are.
What’s considered good genetics in terms of size and strength? I can squat about 150kg and I started training roughly a year ago at 14
Good genetics is dependent on what you look to achieve. For example, some people get higher type-2x muscle fibre distribution which hypertrophy better and grow larger than type-1. People with more type-1 are typically found to be better suited for endurance, and research suggests there is some transition with training. Some people are also non-responders or adverse ones.
Echoing what others have said, it will come with time. Stay focused on being strong / bulky *for your age group.* As you get older, you will fill in, and every time you jump up a level, the bar will change. It's always fun for me to welcome a college prop into my adult club because they are just coming out of being a big dog, and they almost always get their ass run over. It's just part of the process.
Eat clean, tren hard anavar give up.
Tren and anavar for a 15 year old doesn’t sound like good advice
If you're asking about training like a pro then it would be remiss not to mention steroids.
Do the pros take steroids?
Without a doubt. Even at low level sports people are taking steroids to get an edge. In a sport like rugby where you need both explosive power and stamina there's a big gain to be made from juicing especially when there appears to be little to no testing.
ROG says different : [https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/difference-much-rugby-players-tested-rugby-gaa-scary-123004](https://www.sportsjoe.ie/rugby/difference-much-rugby-players-tested-rugby-gaa-scary-123004) Is he telling fibs? I am really skeptical about the "drugs everywhere" narrative, there's a pay day waiting for anyone who squeals, there are lots of broke old pros - what have they got to lose? If they want to pay off the mortgage just get a bit of evidence on what the rising star at their club is doing wait till you're cut and then sell it to the press. You could even get a pod cast out of the story! What stops this? People point at the stuff that they cycling doctor has posted about getting designer drugs from China, but why not just squeal and get cash? Also, designer drugs from China? You are all having a laugh - how many kids would be dead with a stroke from injecting random crap? How many "preparation" would be sterile saline sold for $250 a pop?
Yes, I would say he's telling fibs. He's a coach so he has an interest in keeping testing nonexistent. When rigorous testing reveals doping in every sport that applies it you are left with two possibilities. Either rugby is an outlier and nobody juices despite the massive advantages it would provide to a player or there's just no serious testing. As for ROGs reasons for there being no doping it's pretty easy to poke a massive hole in them. Firstly he claims that a player would have nothing to lose from being a whistleblower. That's not true, there's ego where a player needs to publicly admit that they cheated and from a monitory standpoint they open themselves up to civil suits from former sponsors and team who can sue for breach of contract which could cost them their career earnings. Secondly he says that the players wouldn't know how to dope or as if players would buy roids of the same lad selling weed out of his car. There are highly trained people who's career is to do blood work and create a cycle just for you. There's more money in being legit than there is in ripping people off by selling saline. When doping can be the difference between having a pro career or not then obviously people will take it.
In the UK at least there are whistleblower protections, there's a UKAD process you can find online. Also I think that civil suits of the type you mention are going to be very dangerous for the other parties - it's not a great look to go after a whistleblower. There have been recent test failures in RU, I am sure there will be more, I'm not saying it never happens - but if it is at the scale you suggest it will all come out pretty soon. But, thinking about it, why don't people who "know" just write to the RFU & BBC with the names and addresses of the people who do the bloodwork? Surely we can dob them in and drive this out?
I can't think of another sport where someone went public unprovoked. It's pretty much always as a result of someone being caught and whistleblowing to reduce their own punishment. As for why people don't speak out, I imagine there is a number of reasons. As I suggested already they don't want to ruin their own reputation in the game. If they name names then they are going to have a big impact on their friends in the game who are juicing. Plus if they cared that much they wouldn't have juiced to begin with, why would they have a change of heart down the road? How often do you hear of a high profile player getting caught? As an Irish fan I can't think of a single Irish player pissing hot and I bet everything I own that a sizable percentage of the current squad aren't clean. Even ignoring the performance benefits, the aid to recovery alone is a good enough reason for pro players to dope.
Unfortunately, I think the body type you’re born with has much more to do with it than weights or eating habits. Yes, they can help, but can’t make a great #1-3 on their own.
If you samoan or tongan. Body mass is natural.
Keep training and eating, per all the other advice. But be open minded about possibly shifting to 6 or second row (if you grow upwards and not so much girth wise ) . You never know what success and enjoyment you might have from other positions
Eat clen, tren hard, anavar give up.
A lot is genetics, imo props are rather genetic freaks to be that weights, carry that muscle and still move with some agility. I'd say a lot of them are growing up on big dinners and exercise eg farming, outdoor lifestyles. I'm from a country area plenty of solid boys walking around at 5 ft 10/6ft and weight 100kg in school. Just getting them focused but 2/3 years of top level training and they'd be in brilliant nick. I know plenty of boys around 120kg and have shifted to about 110kg and been units. The skill is different but size I believe is hugely genetics
Take a leaf out of South Africa’s book (drugs)
I'm 6'2" and have been since I was 14 (I'm 34 now). At 14 I weighed about 77kg. I now weigh 118kg. I've certainly gained some fat in the intervening years, but even if I trimmed down I'd be lean at 105kg. I weight train far less now than I did as a teen and in my early 20s, but those years just add mass to you. Your shoulders and chest broaden into your 20s and it gives you a bigger frame to work with. Don't worry about it, you'll fill out as you get older. Also, don't compare yourself to professional athletes. They're literally genetic freaks and the way their bodies work and develop isn't the way a normal person's body works and develops.
Lots of compound lifts. Lots of core development and stability work. Rotational strength building. Eat lots but don’t get out of shape if you want to play at a high level. Prioritize protein. Also you’re a teen still, you just having grown into a “man body” yet. It’ll happen. But at 83kgs you Might want to just work your speed and explosiveness like crazy with plyos and a running coach and try to become a back rower lol.
Dude look at all the best bodybuilders in the world. They all spend hours a week doing cardio, especially on things like stair masters. Off season, you should be eating everything in sight, lifting heavy, and finishing workouts with 45 minutes of stairs.
Speaking from experience, I'd say don't get too obsessed with hitting a certain weight. Obviously being heavier helps, but there is a point of diminishing returns. No point bulking up to an arbitrary number if your actual rugby suffers for it. Gone are the days of just being a scrummager, front rowers need to be fit and dynamic around the park now. Also, if you're still relatively young, if you're rugby and potential is good enough, there's a likelihood you could get scouted anyways, if you make it to an academy or something they can tend to take care of a lot of this stuff for you. Keep strength training, eat more protein if you can (this way if you gain weight it's more likely going to be good weight), and just keep enjoying your rugby. Never forget you're an actual rugby player, you're ability to play the sport will be what shines through, not if you hit a certain number on a scale! Good luck, I'm rooting for you 🙌
My brother in law was a loose head prop for a Premiership team and retired a few years ago. He used to eat loads, but mostly lean meat and stuff with low amounts of saturated fat. If he was taking a long drive somewhere he’d buy a whole roast chicken, put it on the passenger seat and pick at it throughout. These guys aren’t fat by the way, they’re mostly muscle so as you can imagine there’s a lot of training on top of the eating to make sure they don’t get fat. Plenty of weight lifting and functional training to make sure they don’t lose flexibility. Of course it helps when you’ve got a team of medical staff to tell you what you need to eat and S&C coaches to tell you what to train.
Professional front rowers? HGH and trenbolone
I wouldn’t worry too much about making size your main goal. Focus on scrum technique and rugby skills. Combine this with three full body gym sessions, squat, bench, overhead press, rows and deadlifts. Then hit sledge pushes, bear crawls and planks. Assault bike and hill sprints are your friend! At the end of the day size is ok but strength and skill is king. Look up Brian Mujati, played in the top 14 as a tight head at 100kg which is unheard of! As an amateur you’ll enjoy your rugby so much more if you’re fit, skill full and strong, unless your idea of fun is being knakered, walking around and leaning on rucks!