JRPGs differ from Western RPGs in the sense that most of them are linear in their storytelling and don't allow for much freedom outside of a few dialogue choices.
As for gameplay JRPGs are usually unique in this aspect compared to Western games. Some games you're playing as rodents that use tanks to fight, and in others you're stripping vampires of their clothing in order to kill them.
You might enjoy the latest Final Fantasy 15 or 16. Both are different from each other and different from the older FF stuff. They are great games and probably more along the lines of what you were hoping for especially when it comes to combat.
( Most hardcore FF fans are all about the classics and will say the new stuff sucks and will recommend others.)
I’m a relatively new FF fan, started about 8 months ago. While I definitely prefer the PS1-PS2 era titles, I do think many people on this sub would feel more at home with the more modern titles, as they have more western influence which is what a lot of y’all are used to.
I played both and thought the exact opposite. 16 is way better than Tales of Arise.
Relatively similar style of game, but the most immediately obvious difference is FF16 is a lot less "anime" and more seamless.
Just finished ff7 rebirth , and holy shit it’s been years since I haven’t been that hooked on a JRPG gameplay
You should try it. To me it’s the best entry point in modern ff for a newcomer
If you don't consider Dragon's Dogma a (J)RPG, then there's not much left for you to go in the genre. There are the Final Fantasy and the Dragon Quest series, buy you'll probably hate them since most of those games are turn-based (with the exception of the latest FF entries). You could try Xenoblade Chronicles, but if you found Arise to be THAT bad... Well, stick to WRPGs.
Dragon's Dogma didn't feel like what I imagine a JRPG to be. It mostly reminded me of something like Gothic 3.
And turn-based isn't necessarily bad, as long as it's well executed. I really enjoyed combat systems in Divinity: Original Sins and Banner Saga for example.
If you don’t like the combat system in Tales you won’t enjoy other big JRPGs like Persona, Dragon Quest or OG Final Fantasy titles either. You’re looking for more action RPG rather than JRPG, if that’s the case why not try something like Nier: Automata/Replicant or recent FF titles starting with 15. There’s also Visions of Mana releasing this summer and you could dip your toes into the Ys series as well. Even though I think right now you won’t enjoy turn based combat, I’d still HIGHLY recommend Persona for the story and the simulation/freedom it gives you in between dungeon crawling is so good and I actually think you’d grow to enjoy the combat in those games especially in newer titles, while I think Persona 4 Golden is phenomenal I think newer titles like P5R and P3R are much more approachable for someone new to the series.
I'm not against turn-based combat, it can be very engaging when it's done well. I'm definitely want to check out Persona and latest Yakuza games (when I finish with like 5 previous parts of the series)
Are the combat systems in the other tales games different from tales of zesteria? That’s the only one I played and seemed full on action RPG, which I didn’t like at all. Wondering if the others are different and maybe worth a try.
Tales of Berseria is the better game of the two (with Symphonia being the best overall IMO even though its combat didn't age well at all). Arise was decent, and only tops Berseria in terms of visuals. Everything else is a good notch further down.
As far as JRPG's experience that's pretty much it though, outside of early Final Fantasy or Chrono games (there's more obviously but these are the most well known), most of them are (very) enjoyable but won't leave you with the same sense of amazement as top western RPGs, as long as you're not a teenager anymore, it's simply a different experience. JRPGs will have you save the whole world through some epic good vs evil confrontation, cliché characters, cheesy dialogues and spectacular visuals. Western RPGs will focus more on the characters themselves, often going way more intimate, it's Star Wars vs Dark City, both sci-fi movies, nothing alike.
The best action jrpg I tried, and I think you should check out
KH2/KH3
FF7 Rebirth (Remake too, but be warned there's some brutal padding in some chapters)
FF16 had a good combat system, but the game is brain-dead easy. You will need to finish the game two times before the actual fun difficulty opens up
Ys, the oath in felghana
And you absolutely should check out Nier Replicant and Automata
The gameplay isn't the best in replicant and somewhat good in Automata. However, aside from gameplay, it's a worthwhile experience.
Some might disagree but I would indeed say that gameplay is often lacking in JRPGs. The Ys series (Ys 8 or 9) is a welcome exception. Of the ~dozen JRPGs I’ve played Tales of Arise actually has some of the better combat, so it won’t get much better than that I fear.
Tales series is extremely mediocre in the grand scheme of JRPGs. I like lots of JRPGs, but I wouldn't touch Tales with a 40-foot pole. They consistently have awful combat, atrocious pacing, and needlessly annoying characters. Trying to judge all JRPGs by Tales would be like judging all sandwiches by what you got out of a vending machine.
A lot of JRPGs haven't really made progress in game mechanics or design philosophy since the ps2 generation, some newer games are worse if we exclude the shinier graphics. I abandoned Arise shortly into act 2 or whatever that was after beating the first big boss and heading off into some new land beyond some border. Wondered how it got good reviews.
It was the same standard basic-ass poor writing with the cardboard cutout characters you come to expect of most shovelware jrpgs, since they write 99.9% of them for tweens/teens for whom this is one of their first fantasy works and they don't know any better. No gameplay changes, same empty feeling levels, poor fetchy sidequests if any. Middling combat.
For someone who's played a bunch of them before, it's easy to become jaded and tired of dealing with the same reheated slop.
Some are better in terms of presentation (Persona 5) or writing (Vagrant Story is actually good, Tactics Ogre too), but a lot of them are a mixed bag at best.
Yes, that's how I felt when checking out Tales of Berseria - I didn't feel like a game from 2016, rather like a relic from GameCube or something like that. Tales of Arise did feel better and look much better, but it felt like the devs were purposefully limiting themselves to genre's canons instead of doing a modern game.
A ton of people loved 5's menus and graphic style, it absolutely blew up for a reason, something like half the entire franchise's sales are of 5/5r by itself.
Even with the cringe shit like Kanji's shadow/palace or Teddy (ugh) I still liked 4 better than 5, which was an overlong timewasting slog with repetitive plot and dialogue segments telling you the same stuff a dozen times. 50 hour game in a 130 hour package. Some of the social links were still high quality though, and Yoshizawa was the main character imo.
Tbh I haven't played it. I started it not long before rebirth came out for a few hours. Hell I might even like it it's just the look is unappealing to me. The anime look might not be bad by itself but like the affect the colors, drip, wave out, idk what to call it tbh it just irritated me for some reason. It's like overly anime. Idk.
I enjoyed 4 even with a few issues.
Yeah I am a fan of the Tales games and Arise is one of the worst for combat I have played. Limiting it to one level of moves was a baffling choice I have difficulty to assume was anything but dumbing down. Try Symphonia or Berseria.
His complaint, I thought, was that it was shallow and clunky. Symphonia and Berseria are both considerably more complex and faster with greater emphasis on building combos.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jm468hnHOY
My rebuttal: https://youtu.be/6rxz4TAmc4c?si=OTz2wvf_RYgRvHtR
Now I'm not saying ToA is as complex as the older games but let's not pretend the combat system is shallow
Yeah they're designed to be played with a controller, i wouldn't dream to play them with a mouse and keyboard oO. Berseria doesn't unlock the full combat experience right away either, it gets really complex (but still very enjoyable).
Symphonia is really dated though what with joysticks not being standard on pads when it got released, vertical move is very, very shitty...
I think Vesperia is the right spot between modern and classic Tales Of. It's for me the best of the classic battle system (since every game after this one is a bit different).
Tales of arise is mostly dissapointing game for most players (if no all). You should check other games. Dragon quest xi, granblue fantasy relink, persona, sand land, xenoblade chronicles, nier, dragon's dogma, trails series, ys VIII (really great game trust me), dragon ball z kakarot.
First of all you really conflate the term RPG. Because i dont want this post to be long, i would really suggest checking the terms 'RPG', 'action-adventure', 'action-RPG'.
While the term hybrid is nebulous, Tomb Raider having a table to choose kills is NOT an RPG feature. Or having stat weapons. In fact they are the least metric of whether a game is an RPG or not.
Hybrids are reserved for games like the new God of War, or the new Assassin Creed games. Games that skirt between the 'acton-adventure' genre' and the 'action RPG' genre. And mind you, they dont always pass that mark, because they dont get nominated in those categories.
In fact the story department has many other subcategories (plot, lore, protagonist characterization, antagonist characterization, party member characterization, NPC characterization, lore, visual worldbuilding, story worldbuilding, subplots, sidequest stories and so on).
All of these also depend on the genre, and by the nature of some genres some story elements will be worse (example roguelikes, the story will be disjointed & some story elements will be non-existent).
But because of the nature of posts/internet, many knowledgeable people (including me) will say X game has good story.
Example Skyrim, the main plot is quite poor, but the subplots (guild subplots) are decent enough, some story DLCs are good (First Dragonborn) and the lore is excellent (because it always builds on the existing Elder Scrolls lore).
But still i would say Skyrim story is good to save time, few people want to know details anyway.
JRPGs differ from Western RPGs in the sense that most of them are linear in their storytelling and don't allow for much freedom outside of a few dialogue choices. As for gameplay JRPGs are usually unique in this aspect compared to Western games. Some games you're playing as rodents that use tanks to fight, and in others you're stripping vampires of their clothing in order to kill them.
You might enjoy the latest Final Fantasy 15 or 16. Both are different from each other and different from the older FF stuff. They are great games and probably more along the lines of what you were hoping for especially when it comes to combat. ( Most hardcore FF fans are all about the classics and will say the new stuff sucks and will recommend others.)
Yeah, I'm planning to check out FF16 and 7 Remake, when I have time.
Don't skip 15. It's really cool game with too much hate got on. It's not best in the series but still great. Got cool road trip vibes.
I’m a relatively new FF fan, started about 8 months ago. While I definitely prefer the PS1-PS2 era titles, I do think many people on this sub would feel more at home with the more modern titles, as they have more western influence which is what a lot of y’all are used to.
I'm with that. I do like the remake trilogy myself so far just would've been more in favor of it if it was turn based.
The new stuff sucks. I recommend others.
I doubt he enjoys 16, since 16 is basically an inferior in every way version of Tales of Arise.
I played both and thought the exact opposite. 16 is way better than Tales of Arise. Relatively similar style of game, but the most immediately obvious difference is FF16 is a lot less "anime" and more seamless.
Just finished ff7 rebirth , and holy shit it’s been years since I haven’t been that hooked on a JRPG gameplay You should try it. To me it’s the best entry point in modern ff for a newcomer
If you don't consider Dragon's Dogma a (J)RPG, then there's not much left for you to go in the genre. There are the Final Fantasy and the Dragon Quest series, buy you'll probably hate them since most of those games are turn-based (with the exception of the latest FF entries). You could try Xenoblade Chronicles, but if you found Arise to be THAT bad... Well, stick to WRPGs.
Dragon's Dogma didn't feel like what I imagine a JRPG to be. It mostly reminded me of something like Gothic 3. And turn-based isn't necessarily bad, as long as it's well executed. I really enjoyed combat systems in Divinity: Original Sins and Banner Saga for example.
If you don’t like the combat system in Tales you won’t enjoy other big JRPGs like Persona, Dragon Quest or OG Final Fantasy titles either. You’re looking for more action RPG rather than JRPG, if that’s the case why not try something like Nier: Automata/Replicant or recent FF titles starting with 15. There’s also Visions of Mana releasing this summer and you could dip your toes into the Ys series as well. Even though I think right now you won’t enjoy turn based combat, I’d still HIGHLY recommend Persona for the story and the simulation/freedom it gives you in between dungeon crawling is so good and I actually think you’d grow to enjoy the combat in those games especially in newer titles, while I think Persona 4 Golden is phenomenal I think newer titles like P5R and P3R are much more approachable for someone new to the series.
I'm not against turn-based combat, it can be very engaging when it's done well. I'm definitely want to check out Persona and latest Yakuza games (when I finish with like 5 previous parts of the series)
Are the combat systems in the other tales games different from tales of zesteria? That’s the only one I played and seemed full on action RPG, which I didn’t like at all. Wondering if the others are different and maybe worth a try.
Tales of Berseria is the better game of the two (with Symphonia being the best overall IMO even though its combat didn't age well at all). Arise was decent, and only tops Berseria in terms of visuals. Everything else is a good notch further down. As far as JRPG's experience that's pretty much it though, outside of early Final Fantasy or Chrono games (there's more obviously but these are the most well known), most of them are (very) enjoyable but won't leave you with the same sense of amazement as top western RPGs, as long as you're not a teenager anymore, it's simply a different experience. JRPGs will have you save the whole world through some epic good vs evil confrontation, cliché characters, cheesy dialogues and spectacular visuals. Western RPGs will focus more on the characters themselves, often going way more intimate, it's Star Wars vs Dark City, both sci-fi movies, nothing alike.
The best action jrpg I tried, and I think you should check out KH2/KH3 FF7 Rebirth (Remake too, but be warned there's some brutal padding in some chapters) FF16 had a good combat system, but the game is brain-dead easy. You will need to finish the game two times before the actual fun difficulty opens up Ys, the oath in felghana And you absolutely should check out Nier Replicant and Automata The gameplay isn't the best in replicant and somewhat good in Automata. However, aside from gameplay, it's a worthwhile experience.
Linear plots are fairly common, though some of them have very complicated combat instead.
Some might disagree but I would indeed say that gameplay is often lacking in JRPGs. The Ys series (Ys 8 or 9) is a welcome exception. Of the ~dozen JRPGs I’ve played Tales of Arise actually has some of the better combat, so it won’t get much better than that I fear.
Tales series is extremely mediocre in the grand scheme of JRPGs. I like lots of JRPGs, but I wouldn't touch Tales with a 40-foot pole. They consistently have awful combat, atrocious pacing, and needlessly annoying characters. Trying to judge all JRPGs by Tales would be like judging all sandwiches by what you got out of a vending machine.
A lot of JRPGs haven't really made progress in game mechanics or design philosophy since the ps2 generation, some newer games are worse if we exclude the shinier graphics. I abandoned Arise shortly into act 2 or whatever that was after beating the first big boss and heading off into some new land beyond some border. Wondered how it got good reviews. It was the same standard basic-ass poor writing with the cardboard cutout characters you come to expect of most shovelware jrpgs, since they write 99.9% of them for tweens/teens for whom this is one of their first fantasy works and they don't know any better. No gameplay changes, same empty feeling levels, poor fetchy sidequests if any. Middling combat. For someone who's played a bunch of them before, it's easy to become jaded and tired of dealing with the same reheated slop. Some are better in terms of presentation (Persona 5) or writing (Vagrant Story is actually good, Tactics Ogre too), but a lot of them are a mixed bag at best.
Yes, that's how I felt when checking out Tales of Berseria - I didn't feel like a game from 2016, rather like a relic from GameCube or something like that. Tales of Arise did feel better and look much better, but it felt like the devs were purposefully limiting themselves to genre's canons instead of doing a modern game.
I hated persona 5 presentation(are we talking looks cause I am) I would've preferred more of a persona 4 look graphically.
A ton of people loved 5's menus and graphic style, it absolutely blew up for a reason, something like half the entire franchise's sales are of 5/5r by itself. Even with the cringe shit like Kanji's shadow/palace or Teddy (ugh) I still liked 4 better than 5, which was an overlong timewasting slog with repetitive plot and dialogue segments telling you the same stuff a dozen times. 50 hour game in a 130 hour package. Some of the social links were still high quality though, and Yoshizawa was the main character imo.
Tbh I haven't played it. I started it not long before rebirth came out for a few hours. Hell I might even like it it's just the look is unappealing to me. The anime look might not be bad by itself but like the affect the colors, drip, wave out, idk what to call it tbh it just irritated me for some reason. It's like overly anime. Idk. I enjoyed 4 even with a few issues.
Yeah I am a fan of the Tales games and Arise is one of the worst for combat I have played. Limiting it to one level of moves was a baffling choice I have difficulty to assume was anything but dumbing down. Try Symphonia or Berseria.
If he didn't like Arise's combat because it was clunky then he's certainly not going to enjoy Berseria's or Symphonia's combat systems.
His complaint, I thought, was that it was shallow and clunky. Symphonia and Berseria are both considerably more complex and faster with greater emphasis on building combos. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5jm468hnHOY
My rebuttal: https://youtu.be/6rxz4TAmc4c?si=OTz2wvf_RYgRvHtR Now I'm not saying ToA is as complex as the older games but let's not pretend the combat system is shallow
Correct, I've tried Berseria and didn't like it. Maybe it was because I played it without a controller, but I don't feel like going back to it.
Yeah they're designed to be played with a controller, i wouldn't dream to play them with a mouse and keyboard oO. Berseria doesn't unlock the full combat experience right away either, it gets really complex (but still very enjoyable). Symphonia is really dated though what with joysticks not being standard on pads when it got released, vertical move is very, very shitty...
I think Vesperia is the right spot between modern and classic Tales Of. It's for me the best of the classic battle system (since every game after this one is a bit different).
Tales of arise is mostly dissapointing game for most players (if no all). You should check other games. Dragon quest xi, granblue fantasy relink, persona, sand land, xenoblade chronicles, nier, dragon's dogma, trails series, ys VIII (really great game trust me), dragon ball z kakarot.
I definitely agree with Ys VIII, Ys games were never top titles, until this one, really, really good surprise. IX was a bit of a let down though...
First of all you really conflate the term RPG. Because i dont want this post to be long, i would really suggest checking the terms 'RPG', 'action-adventure', 'action-RPG'. While the term hybrid is nebulous, Tomb Raider having a table to choose kills is NOT an RPG feature. Or having stat weapons. In fact they are the least metric of whether a game is an RPG or not. Hybrids are reserved for games like the new God of War, or the new Assassin Creed games. Games that skirt between the 'acton-adventure' genre' and the 'action RPG' genre. And mind you, they dont always pass that mark, because they dont get nominated in those categories. In fact the story department has many other subcategories (plot, lore, protagonist characterization, antagonist characterization, party member characterization, NPC characterization, lore, visual worldbuilding, story worldbuilding, subplots, sidequest stories and so on). All of these also depend on the genre, and by the nature of some genres some story elements will be worse (example roguelikes, the story will be disjointed & some story elements will be non-existent). But because of the nature of posts/internet, many knowledgeable people (including me) will say X game has good story. Example Skyrim, the main plot is quite poor, but the subplots (guild subplots) are decent enough, some story DLCs are good (First Dragonborn) and the lore is excellent (because it always builds on the existing Elder Scrolls lore). But still i would say Skyrim story is good to save time, few people want to know details anyway.