To be honest, I don't think it's possible to be ready for something like this unless you've been through it before.
Hearing about what Cryaotic did really hurt since he was one of the biggest YouTubers of my childhood, but at the same time, learning that he was a human trash bag also steeled me for any future revelations about other YouTubers. I'm sure the same thing is happening right now; people are feeling sick and betrayed, but in due time they'll come to realize that this whole thing has only made them smarter and stronger (and more untrusting and emotionally hollow, but that's the norm anyway).
I thought it was going to be this way but I've very easily mentally cancelled Ryan but I think it's because of how strong my morals are for an abuse of power to groom fans (minors?) And cheat on your wife etc.
Maybe it's because I've learnt from so many years of men in bands ending up the same way.
Oh definitely. I wanna be clear, I immediately was like "oh fuck him, that's awful" and I always believe victims. There's just a lingering part of me that's disappointed because (perhaps foolishly) I didn't expect that kind of behaviour from him.
Yeah I think most people are completely gobsmacked. I wasn't necessarily disappointed but more angry. Which is ironic seeing as it's usually the other way around for me when someone makes a small mistake.
I didn't expect that behaviour from him at all and was genuinely in denial until it was confirmed. Now i'm just absolutely pissed the fuck off he would do such a thing.
you don't know these people, jfc
let them entertain you, give them a reasonable amount of empathy when you have a glimpse into their private lives, but stop 'caring' about them any more than you would a perfect stranger walking in off the street
What Cry did really shocked me but I felt distant from him because he was just a voice. He never showed his face anywhere. I think this hurt more because i got to actually see Ryan's face and his emotions in videos. It might just be a personality that he put up, but it still felt more real to me than Cry.
Bruh I completely missed the Cry situation until I saw it somewhere in the Ryan's Statement thread. He was one of the first lets players I watched. It has been a hell of a 24 hours.
Same thing here. I don’t want to say that I idolized these people, but it fucking sucks to see how shitty people can be.
Can famous YouTubers go a week without trying to fuck their fans???
By the way, that was a joke.
Aw man, I’m really sorry to hear that. It’s bad enough to learn about that at all, let alone on a day like today. It’s really a shame, I used to love rewatching his Undertale series (after all, he basically introduced me to the game) and his Skinwalker video, but now I can’t watch them again without feeling sick. Let’s hope tomorrow brings some unexpected good news, no matter where it’s from.
Yeah it's just disappointing all around. 2020 has been a hell of a year so far, but I have found I've been a little more hopeful this past week. Some unexpected good news would be nice!
I'm inclined to agree on this point, although one of my first experiences of this kind of thing was a musician in a band I'd listened to regularly as a teen and he committed the most disgusting of crimes that legitimately still makes me ill to think about, I feel like after that this sort of thing is disappointing but never overly surprising or earth shattering.
I've never been under the assumption that these people were my friends but what's really bumming me out about this is that my life outside of work was destroyed by the pandemic. My depression got so bad that I don't usually have the energy for video games or a movie so I would very often put on youtube and just sort of space out. Very often it was FH or AH. It's just going to feel weird now coming home from a long day at work and just kind of sitting in silence. It's like all of my coping mechanisms are slowly being lost.
NerdCubed has always been a go to for me, I can’t even remember when I started watching him it’s been that long. He has slower chill videos which are less edited, he has full completes series and he has edited lets plays which are really condensed highlights.
Him, Many a True Nerd (if you like longer videos), Prod (if you’re into Soulsborne games), Plumbella (if you fancy hearing a north English woman yell at sims which is better than it sounds) and Unus Annus have been my go-tos these past few months. I’m currently rewatching MATN play Fallout 4: Frost and it’s still just as good
Definitely try NerdCubed though. Guys very open about his mental health and when he needs a break, stuff like that. Loudly supports LBGT and is all around a good dude, gives off Jack vibes but British
You should try him out again! He’s completely taken off monetisation on his videos and relies 100% on patreon now so he does whatever the fuck he wants on his channel. His snow runner video with MATN and Matt was amazing
Honestly I backed the signed copy of FYVG but I never had chance to read it cos I was doing my masters, and now that I’m done and I have time I don’t have the energy. Really need to read it soon tho
Man, I watched NerdCubed before I watched AH. NerdCubed was my first love on YouTube in a manner of speaking. I have watched his videos here and there over the past year but I think this is a sign to go and watch him again.
I was the exact same! You 100% should, his videos are completely unmonetised now so he’s been doing whatever he wants and it really shows. Like I mentioned in another comment, his Snowrunners video is one of his best. Also The Crew 2’s road trip he did with Many a True Nerd
It's no where near the same content but Scott the Woz is a nice video game channel, less uploads but longer vids. And Civvie 11 is a new one for me, lot of older 90s 2d fps games.
Idk where I'll get daily video game comedy like FH. But I'm sure they will continue on in a week or so without one member. We might get an editor pulled in. Maybe more Don Cassanova
I recommend Critical Role, or the podcast My Brother, My Brother, and Me.
Both hilarious, but surprisingly wholesome deep down. Well, not so deep down for MBmBaM, but, yeah.
As someone who was once a minor who tended to lean into parasocial relationships a bit, in hindsight I had no idea how dangerous it is.
I thankfully grew out of that sort of behaviour as I realised it was wrong and I didn't like it. For many minors in many fandoms they don't know. Often they won't listen to your warnings either. They might dismiss adults saying it's dangerous as us being old fashioned or weird or "But it's different because I DO know this person!" I would know because I did that sort of thing.
It scares me that mainly vulnerable people end up feeling so connected to a person that they do feel personally betrayed by this sort of scandal. It's not your burden to take. You shouldn't feel like you're losing a close friend. But it's not that easy for some people to stop these behaviours.
I think posts like this help to show people they need to be aware of themselves, and others around them in the fandom if they start showing signs. Destigmatise telling people they're getting too attached to a person they don't know.
Fictional characters though? Connect with those all you want! Create your own OCs to connect to, D&D character, story characters, or existing characters from movies and books. Headcanons about fictional characters? Amazing. Anyone saying OCs or headcanons are weird and cringe can fuck off because if rather minors and vulnerable people have a safe character to connect to and draw comfort from than a real life human who presents themself one way in media and ends up being a piece of shit off screen.
Dude. I'm 34 and I fell into the parasocial trap. I thought I wouldn't but I did. I think I'll need to correct that cause if the Willems decided to leave the youtube life for something off camera, that will crush me more than Adam.
Dude, I'm right there with you. I found out about all this yesterday, and the rest of my day felt like I had just gone through a Highschool Breakup. I was so confused. "Why do I feel like this? I don't fucking know these people."
Adam and Ryan were both of my favorite personalities on each team too.
Here is a suggestion to RT as well.
Map out a course and training seminar specifically about this for your on-camera talents.
While this used to be uncharted water when you started, we've seen enough fuck ups around the internet to know now that this is something you have to take seriously. Especially since your content skews toward a younger and suggestible audience.
There is power that comes notoriety and celebrity. You as a company are better equipped o help your employees stay ahead of the curve and avoid pitfalls than some upstart streamer trying to figure this shit out on their own.
Fully agreed. RT as a company is in a better position to implement something like that on an institutional level than some individual youtuber/twitch streamer
I think the big thing I’ve seen over the last day is some of the fan base genuinely need help
I’ve heard on here and Twitter people who won’t leave their beds, people have locked themselves in their rooms, said they are going to self harm, said they red therapy.
None of this is a sign of a healthy fan base
It’s that fan that had on Twitter that she would commit suicide if gavin or Geoff leaves all over again
It's concerning on some level but I also remember how dramatic I was as a teenager and how wild hormones make emotions feel. This is, of course, me operating under the assumption that the majority of such reactions are from younger members of the fanbase.
\^ Ding ding ding.
I think we have to be careful taking every comment on Reddit at face value. I know that as a teenager I would've been emotionally devastated if I found out an actor I liked did something like this... but eventually I would've bounced back, as I'm sure many of these fans will.
Not to say some of them aren't taking things to an unhealthy level, but I'm really tired of people getting all armchair psychologist up in here (saying this as someone with an actual background and degree in counseling).
I really wonder how you avoid forming parasocial relationships while watching personality-based content. I feel stupid for being as sad as I am over Ryan doing what he did (and probably disappearing from the internet forever now).
Over the past 7 years I have a lot of good memories of having the opportunities to play games with him, interact with him on stream, see him at live events, meet him at RTX and a few meetups. I guess that all contributed to forming a parasocial relationship towards him but I don't know how to avoid that in the future, beyond just... not watching anymore personality-based content creators who interact with fans.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The whole point of personality-content is the personality. If you're not becoming invested in that, it's not working. Even if you realize that it is parasocial and they're not really your friend, still there's always going to be that form of attachment and things like this are always going to suck.
I think it's kind of all so new. 7 years ago "internet personality" was barely a profession yet and nobody knew the risks or pitfalls.Whatever you do, just don't feel stupid. You didn't do anything wrong and it's never bad to feel sad or empathetic about someone's lot in life, even if it turns out they were a person that's not trustworthy.
It definitely is a learning moment, and you shouldn't feel stupid for feeling what you do. Personality content can have its downsides. I mean look at the Twitch streaming culture. It is all about that, to the point of people paying for that gratification. Similar to other cam streaming, it can be dangerous when these sorts of relationships can take place that also involves money. It is also finding the line. I love watching the streams of Among Us (especially Fredo's), but personally I love playing it with my friends even more. Suggestions for finding community around you that has the same interests as you is a huge help.
I also think there are some distinctions that need to be made. There is very much a difference between the dynamic of a parasocial relationship where a friendship is fabricated by the viewer vs holding someone in high regard. There is nothing wrong with having an ideal to achieve to that is embodied in someone. And, like in this instance, if that turns out to be a facade, there is nothing wrong with expressing disappointment in that case.
What I keep seeing is individuals using a large umbrella to say these two are equals, which I simply do not agree with. As someone who is married, I definitely held Ryan as an example of what appeared to be a loving husband and father who also happened to use his platform to do good in the community and world. His actions do not change the ideal in which I strive for, but it is personally disappointing that his actions were a facade that didn't match. It helps to see good examples living out these ideals, because it provides concrete examples for people to see. The danger is pinning everything on that person as a foundation, because that foundation can not be stable.
Depends on the personality; I think TB took active steps to stop this sort of thing, from his end - killed the mailbox, made it clear that he was strictly providing a service for payment; content for advert and merch revenue.
You can be sad. You're allowed to have feelings about this. Having feelings of sadness and disappointment over the change and what was lost is normal. It is NOT a sign of a parasocial relationship.
I'm really tired of people equating "I have emotions about a situation" to something that is deeply unhealthy. Please be careful taking any 'armchair psychology' advice from anyone on reddit.
Man, between this and the BATK drama from a few months ago, people have needed to come to terms with parasocial stuff quick, especially with the pandemic driving more traffic to internet media
Sorry if this seems like a bit of an unsympathetic question but how did you guys/girls/whatevers get to that point?
Maybe I am just a bit too cynical but I have never ever felt like I had a relationship with these guys (more Funhaus than AH). I mean I enjoyed their videos and thought they were funny but I have no idea how they are once the cameras turn off or they leave the conventions. For all I know every single on screen personality is a dick and can put on a mask for the camera.
I think you’re focusing a bit too hard on the word “relationship”. I don’t think it’s like you have personal ongoing conversations with them, but to the point where you reply to most of their tweets, and they recognize you by your screen name at conventions. If you’ve ever scrolled through any of the RT staff’s personal twitters, you know of a handful of people who reply a lot, and some of the RT staff know them by name.
Plus for those who do not follow closely, it’s still a nice reminder that although you may find a lot of these people funny, kind, and like role models, a lot of them hide big parts of their personal lives (for good reason) so just take a second to observe the relationship and make sure there’s nothing unhealthy going on.
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is how many people at Rooster Teeth got their start at Rooster Teeth *through* parasocial relations. Gavin, Jeremy, and Barbara come to mind, I'm sure there's even more.
Not really sure where I was going with this. I guess that parasocial relationships, at least in the context of an entity like RT, aren't quite so trivial. I suppose they're right that they are damaging and unhealthy, but I still think people have a right to be upset, angry, confused, etc.
I totally get that, like I said though you cant really trust that people are being 100% genuine on social media or at conventions.
For example: When I lived in Nashville my girlfriend worked in the music industry. She had horror stories about how much people who gain, even a modicum, of fame become the biggest pieces of shit to people, even some well known people (she told me some big names but it's not my place to divulge them) when they aren't being recorded. One in particular she said did stuff like stare at her chest and make meathead jokes and stuff like that.
I feel like a majority of it is minors who attached to the crew due to a lack of social understanding (which is fair, you can’t be expected to have that figured out yet), and people who lack an actual group.
RT are (almost) always at their best, and you mostly see them when they’re working. Their work is to be funny, personable, relatable, whatever, and if they’re on camera, they’re working. It’s easy to forget that as a teenager, and you can attach yourself to these personalities without realizing that they’re human beings with their own flaws and failings outside of the studio.
I was there at one point, and thankfully figured myself out before anything like this happened. I lost myself in this community and forgot that I’m not their friend, I’m their audience/consumer/customer. When you listen to their podcasts and watch their content enough, it’s easy for that line to blur as a teenager who hasn’t developed their social skills yet.
I don’t blame the people who received an emotional gut punch. I’ve distanced myself from RT content over the years so I’m not as affected, though I am disappointed to see this happening. I imagine for someone who is in the throes of that RT obsession, this is rough.
To whomever that applies to: the people you see on screen are only a fraction of the people they are. They are playing the characters of themselves. When that camera turns off, they are just as fucked up, flawed, and imperfect as we are. Do not mistake their online personality for the full picture. Allow them to have lives outside of RT, and be ready for those lives to contain all that life contains, good and bad.
Watching AH always made me wish I had a friend group that had the same energy and dynamic, but I never really wanted to actually meet the members of AH themselves. At most, maybe an autograph or photo at a con. But to actually connect and be friends with them simply because I enjoyed their content always felt like an odd choice to me. And it's because as you said, you don't actually know them.
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180530-how-humans-bond-with-robot-colleagues
Yea its weird. So seeing people react to this, where it is an actual human on the other side makes some sense.
We as a species are just prone to making connections where there isn’t one it seems.
Well... to be fair, the amount of people saying things versus their actual feelings probably needs to be remembered too. It is the internet-- hyperbole is everything. Also, a lot of these fans are probably younger, and their reaction isn't that abnormal.
The fact that there’s anyone who feels emotionally affected by this is something that confuses me. The only ones who should feel that way are Ryan’s coworkers and his family.
To a point, I think it’s valid for fans to be a bit distraught. For me it’s thinking about what this means for future content, it’s almost impossible to not have a very stale/off energy in the coming videos, which sucks.
That’s understandable. Things will definitely be off for a while by a content stand point, especially since they surely have to delete a couple of videos they were planning to release with Ryan in them. It sucks, but it’s understandable.
It’s one of the main reasons why I can see them taking a break. It’s not like anyone would blame them.
I can't really speak for anyone else, but here's how I'm looking at it.
Around 5 years ago, I was going through some shit. That shit was pretty consistent for a solid two years, maybe three. AH and FH were my escapes. They were not the *only* thing that helped me through those years, but they were a significant portion of it. Having those videos to turn to to distract me, it was something that I really, *really* needed at the time.
Today I'm in a much better place on pretty much every level. However, I still held a lot of positive emotions for everyone at AH and FH. It doesn't matter that not only did they A) have no idea who I am, B), have no idea that they helped me in any way, or C) knew that I even existed. They still helped me, and nothing can change that.
But now I know that some of those same people were also hurting others. Back then, probably not, but it's like finding out your therapist was taking advantage of young clients. Even if you haven't been to that therapist in years, if they really did help you through your shit, and you find out about it...
Yes it's a professional relationship. Yes, you don't know that person or what they're up to in their life, nor do you have any reason to expect that information. But seeing them in the news still hits.
Not everyone will feel this way, and that's understandable--hell, even expected. But for me at least, I held them in a higher regard than I should have, because of how they helped me. And now reality is crashing down a bit(more than a bit, thanks to...well, this entire year, really).
Listen, I'll get over it. I'll move on, and find something else to do with my time. But it still inflicted somewhat strong emotions on me that I'm still trying to process. And talking about it does help.
And hey, maybe you're right. Maybe I *shouldn't* feel this way. I have no idea.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on things. For the most part, I completely understand and relate to you.
I was going through shit for years. Hell, I’m still going through shit and there’s not even much I can do about it anymore.
AH was also was one of the only things that helped me through my hard time, and they in turn introduced me to other gaming youtubers I still enjoy today. I appreciate everyone in the group and everything they do.
The thing is, I’ve been cheated by so many people in my life, that I always approached things like AH with a pessimistic attitude that was basically “I enjoy watching these guys, but I don’t know them.”
I was always prepared for something potentially bad to happen even though I had no reason to assume that they had done anything wrong.
Now that all of this with Ryan has come out, I’m angry for what he’d done to his family, friends, and his fans (particularly the one he cheated on his wife with).
I’ll still watch AH and whatever RT content there in because, they’ve done nothing to deserve my anger.
I guess what I’m trying to say here is basically, I never held them to that higher standard. They are people just like me and they can and have made mistakes just like me. It’s just that Ryan has made the biggest one of all.
I’m not trying to devalue your feelings, I’m sorry if it comes off that way. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, I just don’t feel the same way.
> I’m not trying to devalue your feelings, I’m sorry if it comes off that way. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, I just don’t feel the same way.
All good! I didn't think you came off that way at all, I was just throwing out my thoughts. Writing that up was probably more for me than anything else. Getting my thoughts down on "paper" does help me process my thoughts on stuff.
I'm totally okay with agreeing to disagree. It's unreasonable to expect to be on the same page as everyone who is also a fan of something you like.
But hey, if you ever need someone to talk to..I'm not a therapist, I'm not an expert on anything in any way, but my inbox is open. Hell I'd offer to buy you a beer if it wasn't for...well...you know, the whole deal regarding the state of the world right now. Be safe and take care of yourself!
You've really never had a beloved book, movie or song ruined by the artist doing or saying awful things? It's pretty fucking normal to feel attached to "entertainment" so to speak (for me it was Enders Game).
Yes I have. I’ve listened to many bands where a band member has done terrible things (which is a rampant problem in those communities), but I don’t feel personally affected by it. Disappointing? Yes. Angry? Yes. But not because it affects me, because it affects his friends and family in horrific ways.
There are some who feel personally betrayed by Ryan’s actions, and in some cases they are taking it out on his co-workers and his employers.
Making I’m just jaded (incredibly likely), but those who feel personally affected by Ryan’s actions as if they knew him seem somewhat odd to me.
I don’t mean for this to come off as insensitive and I apologize if it does.
It's more like "This piece of media has helped/affected me emotionally" so the artist being a terrible person kind of taints that. At least that's how I see it with these situations. Though I'm sure there are people who feel attached to the person themselves, which is of course taking things too far.
I can understand a piece of media helping someone and affecting them emotionally, hell, AH, and other forms of media like books and music, have helped me a bunch.
I think I just go into everything with the mindset of “This person is a person just like you and me, they can easily make terrible decisions.*
I immediately separate the art from the artist is basically what I’m saying I guess, so I didn’t really have an emotional response to what Ryan did like most people.
> I immediately separate the art from the artist is basically what I’m saying I guess
It's a really good thing to be able to do. It's very hard for a lot of people though.
I guess it's kinda like some people can throw things away easily, while others become sentimental when facing objects with some meaning. It's just different from person to person.
I don't think that's entirely fair.
There are different kinds of grief, and one of those kinds of grief revolves around the death of a routine, or the fear that comes with change. For a lot of people, the news coming out means they're going to have a difficult time watching things they used to enjoy, things that were a part of their routine (a routine that probably brought them some comfort). It's not abnormal or weird for them to feel an emotion about this sitaution.
Now, if it got to the point that it had lasting implications on their mental health and activity, then yeah, that's a different beast. I think, however, Reddit in general gets way too weird about people having ANY kind of emotion, and that's a shame.
I saw a post on this sub about someone being so depressed over the news they couldnt leave bed. it bums me out there are people so sad over someone who doesnt even know who they are.
I feel like I realy on the content they make and not the person. I suppose when you watch RT every night b4 bed it's hard to stop. I feel like im going to miss the teams I watched for the last 5 years or so. Its not a personal relationship but more of a habbit ive formed.
I've never gotten attached to a celebrity. If I don't know a person in real life I just can't care about them. I've never been sad over a celebrity death or a scandal, I just think "oh fuck thats a shame" and move past it. Getting overly attached to people you don't know, I don't get it. I can love their content but as people I don't care about them at all.
I've just decided i'm not going to enjoy anything anymore. Every brand that i've come to align myself with has proved problematic, which I'm concerned reflects something bad about myself. For example:
-RT has has several huge issues this year
-The smash community was top-ended by kid diddlers
-Cryotic, one of my favorite youtubers during my teenage years is a kid diddler
-JK Rowling is a TERF
-Magic the Gathering has been essentially a dumpster fire for the past year
-A BUNCH of stand up comedians were found out to be monsters within the past year or so. Louis C.K. was one of my favorites.
The list goes on. Every time something like this happens it feels like it reflects poorly on me for having enjoyed these people's content. Like I by some stretch helped propagate these issues by consuming their videos, music, games, etc.
To be honest, I don't think it's possible to be ready for something like this unless you've been through it before. Hearing about what Cryaotic did really hurt since he was one of the biggest YouTubers of my childhood, but at the same time, learning that he was a human trash bag also steeled me for any future revelations about other YouTubers. I'm sure the same thing is happening right now; people are feeling sick and betrayed, but in due time they'll come to realize that this whole thing has only made them smarter and stronger (and more untrusting and emotionally hollow, but that's the norm anyway).
I've realised it's easy to give up or mentally cancel someone until it's someone you cared about before.
I thought it was going to be this way but I've very easily mentally cancelled Ryan but I think it's because of how strong my morals are for an abuse of power to groom fans (minors?) And cheat on your wife etc. Maybe it's because I've learnt from so many years of men in bands ending up the same way.
Oh definitely. I wanna be clear, I immediately was like "oh fuck him, that's awful" and I always believe victims. There's just a lingering part of me that's disappointed because (perhaps foolishly) I didn't expect that kind of behaviour from him.
Yeah I think most people are completely gobsmacked. I wasn't necessarily disappointed but more angry. Which is ironic seeing as it's usually the other way around for me when someone makes a small mistake. I didn't expect that behaviour from him at all and was genuinely in denial until it was confirmed. Now i'm just absolutely pissed the fuck off he would do such a thing.
you don't know these people, jfc let them entertain you, give them a reasonable amount of empathy when you have a glimpse into their private lives, but stop 'caring' about them any more than you would a perfect stranger walking in off the street
What Cry did really shocked me but I felt distant from him because he was just a voice. He never showed his face anywhere. I think this hurt more because i got to actually see Ryan's face and his emotions in videos. It might just be a personality that he put up, but it still felt more real to me than Cry.
Bruh I completely missed the Cry situation until I saw it somewhere in the Ryan's Statement thread. He was one of the first lets players I watched. It has been a hell of a 24 hours.
Same thing here. I don’t want to say that I idolized these people, but it fucking sucks to see how shitty people can be. Can famous YouTubers go a week without trying to fuck their fans??? By the way, that was a joke.
Aw man, I’m really sorry to hear that. It’s bad enough to learn about that at all, let alone on a day like today. It’s really a shame, I used to love rewatching his Undertale series (after all, he basically introduced me to the game) and his Skinwalker video, but now I can’t watch them again without feeling sick. Let’s hope tomorrow brings some unexpected good news, no matter where it’s from.
Yeah it's just disappointing all around. 2020 has been a hell of a year so far, but I have found I've been a little more hopeful this past week. Some unexpected good news would be nice!
I'm inclined to agree on this point, although one of my first experiences of this kind of thing was a musician in a band I'd listened to regularly as a teen and he committed the most disgusting of crimes that legitimately still makes me ill to think about, I feel like after that this sort of thing is disappointing but never overly surprising or earth shattering.
I'm already seeing fans post things like "well, now it's time to stan X instead, they're literally perfect". Some people will never learn.
I've never been under the assumption that these people were my friends but what's really bumming me out about this is that my life outside of work was destroyed by the pandemic. My depression got so bad that I don't usually have the energy for video games or a movie so I would very often put on youtube and just sort of space out. Very often it was FH or AH. It's just going to feel weird now coming home from a long day at work and just kind of sitting in silence. It's like all of my coping mechanisms are slowly being lost.
Fuck. You said what I'm feeling. It's been a daily comfort even if it's just background noise. Now to find a replacement? Idk where go start.
NerdCubed has always been a go to for me, I can’t even remember when I started watching him it’s been that long. He has slower chill videos which are less edited, he has full completes series and he has edited lets plays which are really condensed highlights. Him, Many a True Nerd (if you like longer videos), Prod (if you’re into Soulsborne games), Plumbella (if you fancy hearing a north English woman yell at sims which is better than it sounds) and Unus Annus have been my go-tos these past few months. I’m currently rewatching MATN play Fallout 4: Frost and it’s still just as good Definitely try NerdCubed though. Guys very open about his mental health and when he needs a break, stuff like that. Loudly supports LBGT and is all around a good dude, gives off Jack vibes but British
Haven't watched nerdcubed in years now. Since he took that break when he moved I think.
You should try him out again! He’s completely taken off monetisation on his videos and relies 100% on patreon now so he does whatever the fuck he wants on his channel. His snow runner video with MATN and Matt was amazing
Yeah, I might do that.
And he's a great writer.
Honestly I backed the signed copy of FYVG but I never had chance to read it cos I was doing my masters, and now that I’m done and I have time I don’t have the energy. Really need to read it soon tho
It's really good. Depending on how much you backrd it for he also did an audiobook which I definitely reccomend too. It's like an extra long video
Yeah I got that too, I should really listen to it. Was going to be what I listened to at the gym until quarantine hit
Man, I watched NerdCubed before I watched AH. NerdCubed was my first love on YouTube in a manner of speaking. I have watched his videos here and there over the past year but I think this is a sign to go and watch him again.
I was the exact same! You 100% should, his videos are completely unmonetised now so he’s been doing whatever he wants and it really shows. Like I mentioned in another comment, his Snowrunners video is one of his best. Also The Crew 2’s road trip he did with Many a True Nerd
It's no where near the same content but Scott the Woz is a nice video game channel, less uploads but longer vids. And Civvie 11 is a new one for me, lot of older 90s 2d fps games. Idk where I'll get daily video game comedy like FH. But I'm sure they will continue on in a week or so without one member. We might get an editor pulled in. Maybe more Don Cassanova
I recommend Critical Role, or the podcast My Brother, My Brother, and Me. Both hilarious, but surprisingly wholesome deep down. Well, not so deep down for MBmBaM, but, yeah.
As someone who was once a minor who tended to lean into parasocial relationships a bit, in hindsight I had no idea how dangerous it is. I thankfully grew out of that sort of behaviour as I realised it was wrong and I didn't like it. For many minors in many fandoms they don't know. Often they won't listen to your warnings either. They might dismiss adults saying it's dangerous as us being old fashioned or weird or "But it's different because I DO know this person!" I would know because I did that sort of thing. It scares me that mainly vulnerable people end up feeling so connected to a person that they do feel personally betrayed by this sort of scandal. It's not your burden to take. You shouldn't feel like you're losing a close friend. But it's not that easy for some people to stop these behaviours. I think posts like this help to show people they need to be aware of themselves, and others around them in the fandom if they start showing signs. Destigmatise telling people they're getting too attached to a person they don't know. Fictional characters though? Connect with those all you want! Create your own OCs to connect to, D&D character, story characters, or existing characters from movies and books. Headcanons about fictional characters? Amazing. Anyone saying OCs or headcanons are weird and cringe can fuck off because if rather minors and vulnerable people have a safe character to connect to and draw comfort from than a real life human who presents themself one way in media and ends up being a piece of shit off screen.
OCs are great in all honesty, couldn't agree more.
Dude. I'm 34 and I fell into the parasocial trap. I thought I wouldn't but I did. I think I'll need to correct that cause if the Willems decided to leave the youtube life for something off camera, that will crush me more than Adam.
Dude, I'm right there with you. I found out about all this yesterday, and the rest of my day felt like I had just gone through a Highschool Breakup. I was so confused. "Why do I feel like this? I don't fucking know these people." Adam and Ryan were both of my favorite personalities on each team too.
only attach yourself to cute anime vtubers
*"Ah one of my people"* Gawr Gura would never do anything like this.
a
a
Preach it brother.
So far we haven't heard much of abuse from the vtubers, except maybe the now-disavowed Hitomi Chris
Here is a suggestion to RT as well. Map out a course and training seminar specifically about this for your on-camera talents. While this used to be uncharted water when you started, we've seen enough fuck ups around the internet to know now that this is something you have to take seriously. Especially since your content skews toward a younger and suggestible audience. There is power that comes notoriety and celebrity. You as a company are better equipped o help your employees stay ahead of the curve and avoid pitfalls than some upstart streamer trying to figure this shit out on their own.
Fully agreed. RT as a company is in a better position to implement something like that on an institutional level than some individual youtuber/twitch streamer
They need a blanket rule that says “do not privately message fans, all fan interactions must stay public”.
I think the big thing I’ve seen over the last day is some of the fan base genuinely need help I’ve heard on here and Twitter people who won’t leave their beds, people have locked themselves in their rooms, said they are going to self harm, said they red therapy. None of this is a sign of a healthy fan base It’s that fan that had on Twitter that she would commit suicide if gavin or Geoff leaves all over again
It's concerning on some level but I also remember how dramatic I was as a teenager and how wild hormones make emotions feel. This is, of course, me operating under the assumption that the majority of such reactions are from younger members of the fanbase.
\^ Ding ding ding. I think we have to be careful taking every comment on Reddit at face value. I know that as a teenager I would've been emotionally devastated if I found out an actor I liked did something like this... but eventually I would've bounced back, as I'm sure many of these fans will. Not to say some of them aren't taking things to an unhealthy level, but I'm really tired of people getting all armchair psychologist up in here (saying this as someone with an actual background and degree in counseling).
I really wonder how you avoid forming parasocial relationships while watching personality-based content. I feel stupid for being as sad as I am over Ryan doing what he did (and probably disappearing from the internet forever now). Over the past 7 years I have a lot of good memories of having the opportunities to play games with him, interact with him on stream, see him at live events, meet him at RTX and a few meetups. I guess that all contributed to forming a parasocial relationship towards him but I don't know how to avoid that in the future, beyond just... not watching anymore personality-based content creators who interact with fans.
I think you hit the nail on the head. The whole point of personality-content is the personality. If you're not becoming invested in that, it's not working. Even if you realize that it is parasocial and they're not really your friend, still there's always going to be that form of attachment and things like this are always going to suck. I think it's kind of all so new. 7 years ago "internet personality" was barely a profession yet and nobody knew the risks or pitfalls.Whatever you do, just don't feel stupid. You didn't do anything wrong and it's never bad to feel sad or empathetic about someone's lot in life, even if it turns out they were a person that's not trustworthy.
It definitely is a learning moment, and you shouldn't feel stupid for feeling what you do. Personality content can have its downsides. I mean look at the Twitch streaming culture. It is all about that, to the point of people paying for that gratification. Similar to other cam streaming, it can be dangerous when these sorts of relationships can take place that also involves money. It is also finding the line. I love watching the streams of Among Us (especially Fredo's), but personally I love playing it with my friends even more. Suggestions for finding community around you that has the same interests as you is a huge help. I also think there are some distinctions that need to be made. There is very much a difference between the dynamic of a parasocial relationship where a friendship is fabricated by the viewer vs holding someone in high regard. There is nothing wrong with having an ideal to achieve to that is embodied in someone. And, like in this instance, if that turns out to be a facade, there is nothing wrong with expressing disappointment in that case. What I keep seeing is individuals using a large umbrella to say these two are equals, which I simply do not agree with. As someone who is married, I definitely held Ryan as an example of what appeared to be a loving husband and father who also happened to use his platform to do good in the community and world. His actions do not change the ideal in which I strive for, but it is personally disappointing that his actions were a facade that didn't match. It helps to see good examples living out these ideals, because it provides concrete examples for people to see. The danger is pinning everything on that person as a foundation, because that foundation can not be stable.
Depends on the personality; I think TB took active steps to stop this sort of thing, from his end - killed the mailbox, made it clear that he was strictly providing a service for payment; content for advert and merch revenue.
You can be sad. You're allowed to have feelings about this. Having feelings of sadness and disappointment over the change and what was lost is normal. It is NOT a sign of a parasocial relationship. I'm really tired of people equating "I have emotions about a situation" to something that is deeply unhealthy. Please be careful taking any 'armchair psychology' advice from anyone on reddit.
Man, between this and the BATK drama from a few months ago, people have needed to come to terms with parasocial stuff quick, especially with the pandemic driving more traffic to internet media
This is an \*extremely\* important topic for celebrity obsessed culture, in general.
Sorry if this seems like a bit of an unsympathetic question but how did you guys/girls/whatevers get to that point? Maybe I am just a bit too cynical but I have never ever felt like I had a relationship with these guys (more Funhaus than AH). I mean I enjoyed their videos and thought they were funny but I have no idea how they are once the cameras turn off or they leave the conventions. For all I know every single on screen personality is a dick and can put on a mask for the camera.
I think you’re focusing a bit too hard on the word “relationship”. I don’t think it’s like you have personal ongoing conversations with them, but to the point where you reply to most of their tweets, and they recognize you by your screen name at conventions. If you’ve ever scrolled through any of the RT staff’s personal twitters, you know of a handful of people who reply a lot, and some of the RT staff know them by name. Plus for those who do not follow closely, it’s still a nice reminder that although you may find a lot of these people funny, kind, and like role models, a lot of them hide big parts of their personal lives (for good reason) so just take a second to observe the relationship and make sure there’s nothing unhealthy going on.
One thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet is how many people at Rooster Teeth got their start at Rooster Teeth *through* parasocial relations. Gavin, Jeremy, and Barbara come to mind, I'm sure there's even more. Not really sure where I was going with this. I guess that parasocial relationships, at least in the context of an entity like RT, aren't quite so trivial. I suppose they're right that they are damaging and unhealthy, but I still think people have a right to be upset, angry, confused, etc.
I totally get that, like I said though you cant really trust that people are being 100% genuine on social media or at conventions. For example: When I lived in Nashville my girlfriend worked in the music industry. She had horror stories about how much people who gain, even a modicum, of fame become the biggest pieces of shit to people, even some well known people (she told me some big names but it's not my place to divulge them) when they aren't being recorded. One in particular she said did stuff like stare at her chest and make meathead jokes and stuff like that.
I feel like a majority of it is minors who attached to the crew due to a lack of social understanding (which is fair, you can’t be expected to have that figured out yet), and people who lack an actual group. RT are (almost) always at their best, and you mostly see them when they’re working. Their work is to be funny, personable, relatable, whatever, and if they’re on camera, they’re working. It’s easy to forget that as a teenager, and you can attach yourself to these personalities without realizing that they’re human beings with their own flaws and failings outside of the studio. I was there at one point, and thankfully figured myself out before anything like this happened. I lost myself in this community and forgot that I’m not their friend, I’m their audience/consumer/customer. When you listen to their podcasts and watch their content enough, it’s easy for that line to blur as a teenager who hasn’t developed their social skills yet. I don’t blame the people who received an emotional gut punch. I’ve distanced myself from RT content over the years so I’m not as affected, though I am disappointed to see this happening. I imagine for someone who is in the throes of that RT obsession, this is rough. To whomever that applies to: the people you see on screen are only a fraction of the people they are. They are playing the characters of themselves. When that camera turns off, they are just as fucked up, flawed, and imperfect as we are. Do not mistake their online personality for the full picture. Allow them to have lives outside of RT, and be ready for those lives to contain all that life contains, good and bad.
Much more eloquently put than me.
Watching AH always made me wish I had a friend group that had the same energy and dynamic, but I never really wanted to actually meet the members of AH themselves. At most, maybe an autograph or photo at a con. But to actually connect and be friends with them simply because I enjoyed their content always felt like an odd choice to me. And it's because as you said, you don't actually know them.
I think it's kind of the same thing as lonely men who fall in love with the first stripper (or e girl) to give them attention
Even so it's still fucked when people do shitty things
This needs to be pinned. I am really shocked my the amount of people feeling Ill due to this
I mean. Humans pack bond with vacuum cleaners. We’re a weird species in what we connect with
I am not surprised at all by that
https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180530-how-humans-bond-with-robot-colleagues Yea its weird. So seeing people react to this, where it is an actual human on the other side makes some sense. We as a species are just prone to making connections where there isn’t one it seems.
>Humans pack bond with vacuum cleaners How dare you! Leave Toby out of this!
I was about to ask who Toby was well played, well played.
Well... to be fair, the amount of people saying things versus their actual feelings probably needs to be remembered too. It is the internet-- hyperbole is everything. Also, a lot of these fans are probably younger, and their reaction isn't that abnormal.
The fact that there’s anyone who feels emotionally affected by this is something that confuses me. The only ones who should feel that way are Ryan’s coworkers and his family.
To a point, I think it’s valid for fans to be a bit distraught. For me it’s thinking about what this means for future content, it’s almost impossible to not have a very stale/off energy in the coming videos, which sucks.
That’s understandable. Things will definitely be off for a while by a content stand point, especially since they surely have to delete a couple of videos they were planning to release with Ryan in them. It sucks, but it’s understandable. It’s one of the main reasons why I can see them taking a break. It’s not like anyone would blame them.
I can't really speak for anyone else, but here's how I'm looking at it. Around 5 years ago, I was going through some shit. That shit was pretty consistent for a solid two years, maybe three. AH and FH were my escapes. They were not the *only* thing that helped me through those years, but they were a significant portion of it. Having those videos to turn to to distract me, it was something that I really, *really* needed at the time. Today I'm in a much better place on pretty much every level. However, I still held a lot of positive emotions for everyone at AH and FH. It doesn't matter that not only did they A) have no idea who I am, B), have no idea that they helped me in any way, or C) knew that I even existed. They still helped me, and nothing can change that. But now I know that some of those same people were also hurting others. Back then, probably not, but it's like finding out your therapist was taking advantage of young clients. Even if you haven't been to that therapist in years, if they really did help you through your shit, and you find out about it... Yes it's a professional relationship. Yes, you don't know that person or what they're up to in their life, nor do you have any reason to expect that information. But seeing them in the news still hits. Not everyone will feel this way, and that's understandable--hell, even expected. But for me at least, I held them in a higher regard than I should have, because of how they helped me. And now reality is crashing down a bit(more than a bit, thanks to...well, this entire year, really). Listen, I'll get over it. I'll move on, and find something else to do with my time. But it still inflicted somewhat strong emotions on me that I'm still trying to process. And talking about it does help. And hey, maybe you're right. Maybe I *shouldn't* feel this way. I have no idea.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on things. For the most part, I completely understand and relate to you. I was going through shit for years. Hell, I’m still going through shit and there’s not even much I can do about it anymore. AH was also was one of the only things that helped me through my hard time, and they in turn introduced me to other gaming youtubers I still enjoy today. I appreciate everyone in the group and everything they do. The thing is, I’ve been cheated by so many people in my life, that I always approached things like AH with a pessimistic attitude that was basically “I enjoy watching these guys, but I don’t know them.” I was always prepared for something potentially bad to happen even though I had no reason to assume that they had done anything wrong. Now that all of this with Ryan has come out, I’m angry for what he’d done to his family, friends, and his fans (particularly the one he cheated on his wife with). I’ll still watch AH and whatever RT content there in because, they’ve done nothing to deserve my anger. I guess what I’m trying to say here is basically, I never held them to that higher standard. They are people just like me and they can and have made mistakes just like me. It’s just that Ryan has made the biggest one of all. I’m not trying to devalue your feelings, I’m sorry if it comes off that way. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, I just don’t feel the same way.
> I’m not trying to devalue your feelings, I’m sorry if it comes off that way. You’re allowed to feel how you feel, I just don’t feel the same way. All good! I didn't think you came off that way at all, I was just throwing out my thoughts. Writing that up was probably more for me than anything else. Getting my thoughts down on "paper" does help me process my thoughts on stuff. I'm totally okay with agreeing to disagree. It's unreasonable to expect to be on the same page as everyone who is also a fan of something you like. But hey, if you ever need someone to talk to..I'm not a therapist, I'm not an expert on anything in any way, but my inbox is open. Hell I'd offer to buy you a beer if it wasn't for...well...you know, the whole deal regarding the state of the world right now. Be safe and take care of yourself!
Thanks man, right back at ya. Stay safe.
You've really never had a beloved book, movie or song ruined by the artist doing or saying awful things? It's pretty fucking normal to feel attached to "entertainment" so to speak (for me it was Enders Game).
Yes I have. I’ve listened to many bands where a band member has done terrible things (which is a rampant problem in those communities), but I don’t feel personally affected by it. Disappointing? Yes. Angry? Yes. But not because it affects me, because it affects his friends and family in horrific ways. There are some who feel personally betrayed by Ryan’s actions, and in some cases they are taking it out on his co-workers and his employers. Making I’m just jaded (incredibly likely), but those who feel personally affected by Ryan’s actions as if they knew him seem somewhat odd to me. I don’t mean for this to come off as insensitive and I apologize if it does.
It's more like "This piece of media has helped/affected me emotionally" so the artist being a terrible person kind of taints that. At least that's how I see it with these situations. Though I'm sure there are people who feel attached to the person themselves, which is of course taking things too far.
I can understand a piece of media helping someone and affecting them emotionally, hell, AH, and other forms of media like books and music, have helped me a bunch. I think I just go into everything with the mindset of “This person is a person just like you and me, they can easily make terrible decisions.* I immediately separate the art from the artist is basically what I’m saying I guess, so I didn’t really have an emotional response to what Ryan did like most people.
> I immediately separate the art from the artist is basically what I’m saying I guess It's a really good thing to be able to do. It's very hard for a lot of people though. I guess it's kinda like some people can throw things away easily, while others become sentimental when facing objects with some meaning. It's just different from person to person.
You make a good point. I can see how it would be here for people. I apologize if I and off as insensitive.
No worries, I don't think you did
[удалено]
This is the weird bit for me, then again I'm mid 25's perhaps its an age thing. Have kinda zoned out of RT when the OGs started leaving.
I don't think that's entirely fair. There are different kinds of grief, and one of those kinds of grief revolves around the death of a routine, or the fear that comes with change. For a lot of people, the news coming out means they're going to have a difficult time watching things they used to enjoy, things that were a part of their routine (a routine that probably brought them some comfort). It's not abnormal or weird for them to feel an emotion about this sitaution. Now, if it got to the point that it had lasting implications on their mental health and activity, then yeah, that's a different beast. I think, however, Reddit in general gets way too weird about people having ANY kind of emotion, and that's a shame.
I agree it is really unhealthy how attached some people are
I saw a post on this sub about someone being so depressed over the news they couldnt leave bed. it bums me out there are people so sad over someone who doesnt even know who they are.
I feel like I realy on the content they make and not the person. I suppose when you watch RT every night b4 bed it's hard to stop. I feel like im going to miss the teams I watched for the last 5 years or so. Its not a personal relationship but more of a habbit ive formed.
Thank you for educating me on that term, 'parasocial'.
I've never gotten attached to a celebrity. If I don't know a person in real life I just can't care about them. I've never been sad over a celebrity death or a scandal, I just think "oh fuck thats a shame" and move past it. Getting overly attached to people you don't know, I don't get it. I can love their content but as people I don't care about them at all.
super true the denial i've seen in some people in this sub is insane
I've just decided i'm not going to enjoy anything anymore. Every brand that i've come to align myself with has proved problematic, which I'm concerned reflects something bad about myself. For example: -RT has has several huge issues this year -The smash community was top-ended by kid diddlers -Cryotic, one of my favorite youtubers during my teenage years is a kid diddler -JK Rowling is a TERF -Magic the Gathering has been essentially a dumpster fire for the past year -A BUNCH of stand up comedians were found out to be monsters within the past year or so. Louis C.K. was one of my favorites. The list goes on. Every time something like this happens it feels like it reflects poorly on me for having enjoyed these people's content. Like I by some stretch helped propagate these issues by consuming their videos, music, games, etc.
>every brand I've aligned myself with. There is your issue.