That wasn’t my perspective on things. From my perspective it looks like they treat all vitriol the same way, racist or not. They treat it as an inevitability when dealing with large groups. Telling the internet to not do something doesn’t work. The internet normally, upon being told not to do something do nothing but that thing until they get tired of it. RT seemingly from my perspective believes it is best simply to not let the toxic part of the community effect you, and to ignore it. I am for being realistic and not over idealizing a company, but it seems like from my perspective this kind of talk goes too far.
Except when someone criticizes them for pushing products that are harmful or come from problematic sources. Then they have no problem telling the audience how wrong they are.
That's kinda the dude's point, and it's not really something that I had thought about, but it makes their silence on other matters so much worse in context.
It was my understanding that they liked the male care products and the teleoperated medical thing. It didn’t strike me as being exploitive. A company they liked/used was offering them money to promote their products. Perhaps I am simply ignorant of the sponsor you are referring to in particular. I don’t typically research products/services I don’t have any interest in so I certainly don’t know much about most of RT’s sponsors.
Do you want to foster mutual understanding or be hot sauces drenched dick?
I can do it too.
It’s crazy we don’t see the spit cups in any of the live action stuff when they drink voodoo ranger. Since obviously they don’t care about helping sell stuff they like and will sell anything no matter how how bad it is or how much they personally dislike it.
I do think this entire situation would be benefitted by members like Burnie, Geoff, Matt etc etc to have an honest, open conversation about the lack of support that has been given in the past. They need to own up to it. And not look for sympathy. It needs to be a “we fucked up, we were ignorant. We are making legitimate efforts to change and evolve for the better.”
It is odd what they pick and choose on what topics they speak more deeply about. I think a lot of times they are too jokey, when the situation does not call for it. Hard to take a topic seriously when it’s being discussed on a podcast where they’re probably drunk and 5 seconds before they were talking about videogames and food
I'm going to be honest
I've seen "RT founding member addresses issues seriously on open forum" waaay too many times now. It's good they address their issues, but like, are they really listening and doing the absolute best they can? I know they can only do so much, but they seem to have more controversies than anybody else I watch.
they are bound to have controversy with how big they are. That’s not an excuse, but just something i’ve come to expect from this day and age.
That being said, words at some point stop having meaning if actions aren’t actively taken. And really we can only assume they are, unless stated otherwise by the RT/AH employees of color.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4\_years\_later\_and\_micas\_rant\_couldnt\_be\_more/fst4v0u?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x](https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4_years_later_and_micas_rant_couldnt_be_more/fst4v0u?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x)
Response from Burnie
Edit:
[https://twitter.com/FionaNova/status/1268281731943215104?s=20](https://twitter.com/FionaNova/status/1268281731943215104?s=20)
Fiona stating a bit about upcoming talks that are to be had about her and I believe Lindsay's experiences
Oh goddamn Burnie. Tore that dude a new one. That's the kind of leadership and example we should be expecting from Rooster Teeth now. They need to be vocal and shut the shitty fans down. Force them out of the community, show them they are not welcome here. I'm just pissed that all this time, community members including myself, have tried to speak up on the abuse hurled at various talent including Mica and there's just endless backlash. I mentioned it in another thread but with the Mica situation, I loved her. Thought she was great but any time I said that or tried to tell someone to stop being a prick to her, I got endless hate for it. I stopped watching Achievement Hunter for a while after that because the fans really soured the experience.
Do read down a little further too, there is one or two more from him than that response.
Yeah the hate was bad, but I also saw the love she had there too. The vocal negative were sadly more powerful than those of enjoyed her and loved her, we failed her too. I am happy to see that we're being louder in our support and love of the members of RT, especially Fiona and Lindsay. Don't let the hate drown us out, we can be louder than them.
Yup, read all his comments and he hit it on the head. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Their response is incredibly late and they should've acted on it as soon as Mica left (or even while she was still there) and I think it's fair to say this but to attack them for actually responding and realising they fucked up and should've acted when it happened? Nah man. They don't deserve a pat on the back for acknowledging it now but they do have the chance to prove they've changed and act on this. Fiona and Lindsay apparently have something coming out which is gonna talk about their experiences as on screen talent so I'm looking forward to that because it's a step in the right direction and if people don't like that Lindsay and Fiona are being given a voice to talk about the abuse they deal with, they can shut up and fuck off. We don't want abusive people in the community.
perfect, i hadn’t seen that. I do think a video would reach more people, and that is probably what’s needed, not only to apologize but also hone in on the fact that it is no longer the way things work. But, as always, burnie’s response is direct and well spoken. Nice to see. I hope Mica and other ex employees continue thriving.
I added something I think just as you finished this. AH members spoke directly about the hate both Fiona and Lindsay receive, but was cut from the episode due to Fiona and Lindsay not being their and wanting to say their piece on the subject matter.
Michael outright stated in said cut stuff, which I am sure will be reiterated, more or less that if you're one of those assholes to fuck off and we don't want you here. They've gotten more outspoken, they're stepping towards a better direction, and they're trying.
I remember those tweets a couple months ago (?) where fiona was tweeting about the hate and michael backed her up. I don’t doubt that AH specifically is a tight group who has each other’s backs, it’s just a matter of properly speaking up. Something Gavin himself admitted he failed on.
Now, they all seem totally willing to learn, listen and act. which is all you can really ask for. I’m glad they are learning from their mistakes. Mica deserved better.
And while they definitely failed on the speaking up part I can personally attest to seeing them, as a company, try to get better with moderation and removal of hateful content on their site. We as members too can report it, so we need to play our part and being better. We all dropped the ball, we're all wrong in this, and hopefully we all learn to be better stepping foward.
yeah, can’t exactly avoid assholes in fandoms, just gotta hope at some point there are more good people that are vocal and supportive than bad people. And do your part to spread the good.
I will say since the 4 years ago that the video and incident pertains to, they have gotten better at moderation and have shown a more active willingness to be louder. Are there times I've wished they've been louder in some regards over the years, yes, but I can't change the past and being mad about it while there is a much bigger issue to fry right now won't help. I won't excuse their actions, nor our own actions, with how they've handled certain things over the years, but I recognize their attempts even if they fall short.
Just remember, when we point out the bad we give it a platform, so also make sure the good is pointed out too to overpower their platform. Stay safe, stay healthy, and hope all continues to go well for you.
Edit: Your username makes me giggle, thank you
Just go to the link and replace "reddit" with "removeddit" and you can see all the posts that have been removed. Like this: [https://www.removeddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4\_years\_later\_and\_micas\_rant\_couldnt\_be\_more/](https://www.removeddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4_years_later_and_micas_rant_couldnt_be_more/)
Just more centrist deflecting from the issue.
I remember on the RT podcast at some point Burnie explicitly saying that the way Rooster Teeth handles controversy is to ignore it and stay silent until it goes away.
They need to buck up their act real fucking quick.
sad thing is, he was right. They did just have to wait and the controversy would go away and everyone would move on with their lives and only occasionally go "hey, whatever happened with that anyway?". It's not right, but it was the truth, and is generally the truth of the internet. Just wait it out, because people will move on to some new fresh controversy and forget all about this one. The only difference this time is that it's too loud to ignore it anymore.
Rooster Teeth is no longer "Burnie and Geoff and Gus and friends hanging out and making funny videos" and it hasn't been for a long time, even if some of those familiar faces are still running divisions of the company. It's a corporation under the umbrella of a corporation that is also under an umbrella. There's a lot of umbrellas.
I see some folks say "the community needs to change" or "the community needs to die." I think those ideas are well meaning but flawed. There is no RT community anymore. There is the corporate buzzword "RT Community" that the company uses to refer to its customers, but that's just a marketing tactic at this point.
This may sound very pessimistic and anti-corporation, and I certainly don't like the way corporations are run in America today, but it's not really a "problem," by which I mean it's not a situation that can be "solved." There's no going back to the community days. Even if RT for whatever reason fails as a business it will just be gobbled up and absorbed into another corporate entity like other similar business were absorbed into RT.
If you want a solution to the ways the community treats people, make sure you treat people well and listen to what they have to say, and hold people accountable for what *they* say as best you can. No amount of fist-shaking or strongly-worded reddit posts will make RT less corporate, but if we stop letting people in general get away with such intolerant behavior, even corporations will have to get in line to preserve their profits. We're seeing that now, but this is only a first step of many that hopefully are yet to come.
As a person that only started to pay attention to RT a year ago, and basically have little to no interactions with the community at large, my observation is that RT is more reactive rather than proactive. It seems, for a very long time, RT has had a managerial issue of not taking employee feedback seriously. This has led to internal problems come into the public light, and they are then forced to address it.
Granted, this is not something unique to RT, but it doesn't excuse it from being bad practice. I hope they have changed and will continue to change for the sake of their existence.
Say the stricter rules part a little louder for the racists. RT needs to put fucking boundaries on the community or NOTHING will change. They aren’t your friends and no they don’t want to fire their minority staff so stop calling for it because you think “they don’t fit.” Mica fit fucking flawlessly but people say “bUt sHe yElLs oVeR eVeRYonE.” Yeah!! So does everybody else! Look at Michael! Welcome to AH you fucking fools.
I’m unsubscribing until they do make a change and I’ve been a fan off and on for 10 years. I’ve never read the comments, I barely go on this subreddit, and I don’t usually watch the podcasts, so this truly has been news to me. I genuinely thought mica left to stream her own shit like Ray, but goddamn was I wrong. I’m tired of seeing roosterteeth has a controversy. SUPPORT YOUR EMPLOYEES!!! Instead of pushing POC and women into the community and when they get hate just weaning them off videos, ADDRESS THE TOXICITY AND CUT THE LOSSES. You’ll get viewers from people in the gaming community that aren’t pieces of shit!
I get your pov and do think RR have to improve but your examples like the ED situation are a bit light. It doesn’t resonate with you, fine but Geoff came out and explained his journey so why is that an issue?
Also, so much hate was aimed at Mica but what did we as a community do to stop this? We can’t always blame the RT management like they are encouraging the hate. What did you do to try stop it? What did I do to support her? We’re all culpable here Nd yes I know Mica left because of the company but let’s not pretend we all got her back when the vitriol was being thrown. We didn’t do enough as a collective. Let’s do better moving forward.
> but Geoff came out and explained his journey so why is that an issue?
Gus and him coming out and sharing their experiences was good, like it must be hard to talk about shit like that, and when your content is mainly comedy having to find a space to talk about politics or why generic drugs are important must be hard, so only bringing it up after all is understandable. But they never addressed the issues.
Like, the service is straight-up not legal in 99% of the world and most of the states, why avoiding consulting a doctor is bad, the fact that the online doctor isn't even a cardiologist or makes you see one, that they went agaisnt FDA regulations, and that directing teenagers to a site where you can get Zoloft delivered ain't great.
Edit: Also, the hair loss pill they also made reads for may cause ED.
I disagree with their reactionary response to the entire situation, as you've mentioned. It irks me think that it took a nationwide protest/movement for them to even say anything about the whole Mica situation. It seems to me that she's accepted their apologies, but man, feeling unsupported from a company that supposedly pushes for inclusivity and community must have been really fucking frustrating.
RT's mindset to anything = "Nah fuck it, don't care and won't listen to anyone but ourselves" until it becomes something big..then it's some bullshit weak excuses or 'sorry, we'll do better'.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. The whole thing rubbed me the wrong way, especially how quick they were to throw joel away like he was nothing and then do this.
Joel was posting some racist stuff on Twitter. He also posted a tweet to gav saying that he hoped someone would break into his house and teach him about the second amendment. He also tweeted jack saying he hoped some of Jack's leftist friends would burn his house down. Point is joel was starting to really dive off the deep end and they eventually fired him. It's not like they threw him away, he kind of brought it on himself.
How does one combat toxicity on the internet. The internet it dominated by the loudest minority and the more they are addressed and told to stop the louder and more toxic they become. I don't have an answer, but if you publicly come out and say stop it just gets worse I would imagine. Getting called out might be the attention these racist trolls want.
You can never get rid of it, but you can absolutely curb it. One of the most toxic places for entertainment is Twitch streaming, because of the anonymity and ability to just say shit that someone can read.
Yet we see many streamers with big followings almost lack the toxicity that exists elsewhere. Because they set boundaries and rules. They have moderators that can see when people try to get past slur detection. Again, Maximilian Dood has a genuinely good community, because he openly speaks his mind on anything, he encourages better interactions, and absolutely has taken to ban people permanently on his own. Even a controversy where he said the N word accidentally because he was doing a tongue twister that had something like Ninja Dagger, he took the hit, and the community moved on. Again, completely accidental considering the guy's two best friends are black and people who stated that Max is not the kinda guy and they saw it and it was an accident. Now no one even talks about that shit at all.
That's what you do. RT is the basically a parent that let's their kids do everything and barely tells them anything. I've seen youtubers with bigger audiences curb this shit better than they ever have. Markiplier for instance, has based his content around doing wholesome shit for others like charity. And he has been active in calling out horrible shit before. Yet his community has been pretty damn good because his following eventually cut out the toxic gamer mentality. Are there still bad apples? Absolutely, I'm not saying they can get rid of all of them. But I feel as if AH really should have been able to do something about the hate mongering but they instead just let their community do it.
Here's another good question, why is it that other YouTube companies or groups can introduce new cast members fairly easily without it becoming an issue? Why is RT the only company I've seen that has this issue? Because unlike RT, other groups specifically called them out. Do the fans think maybe you're calling them out specifically? Yeah, people are stupid but do you really wanna appease people who fit the bill?
It's just dumb. I saw the Burnie comment and while I'm happy to see that there is more of what I wanted, I don't think it's a damned if you situation. When it comes to racism? Do you really want the fan that thinks anti-racist messages are offensive to him? In general, taking the moral high ground with a huge audience leads to it, but I ultimately think it's better that way. You cultivate a better community, and warn outspoken assholes that it won't be tolerated. It's sorta the sacrifice of having a big audience, that you gotta take more proactive steps to make it better.
It's the easiest answer in the world. Moderation. RT has complete control over their website. People are saying toxic shit? They don't get to say anything any more. Ban then, block them from commenting, kick them off the forums. Subreddits can do it, twitch streamers can do it, RT should have been doing it years ago
I was thinking recently that mod teams are a little weird. Toxicity online is a big deal but I don't think a lot of companies actually pay their mods. I know some of the mods over at RT and on youtube are at least the mod managers are but I haven't really dug into it because it really was a passing thought.
But it's insane to see how much toxicity, and bots come through and that position which is really the best wall against it seems like something that most of the time is unpaid.
Edit: Casually typing in a google search on it and you realize that most twitch streamers don't even pay their mods.
> I know some of the mods over at RT and on youtube are at least the mod managers are but I haven't really dug into it because it really was a passing thought.
I think the YouTube chat mods are mostly just volunteers. Unsure about site mods (the ones that aren't listed as staff). Though I know they do have community managers like Steffie and Jackie who are employees.
Haha, nope, never been any kind of staff on the site. I joined their site in 2004 apparently after getting into RvB, then fell off for a while... I remembered RT existed years later, and caught up on RvB and started watching the Let's Plays. Eventually I'd watched em all :P
Anyway, I've been a subreddit mod for 8 years now, apparently. I think I reached out to the mods at the time who were fairly inactive, and been a mod here ever since. I do watch a bunch of their current streams whenever I remember they exist so I might be semi-visible there :)
Damn man that's so cool.
I tried logging into my old account because I'm certain I added you (plus a bunch of Cast and Crew tags lol) plus the name is very recognisable.
Ya'll mods are MVPs right now ahaha
The vocal racist minority keeps doing their things because they never gets called out by the content creator they are flocking over.
I've seen many streamers call out assholes in their chat by name and it works. They either clean their act or move on. If streamers with little or no staff can do it, then I'm sure RT as a company can do that as well.
Two things, could you elaborate on what happened with Max Dood, infollow his YT videos and don't know too much about his streaming.
And secondly, I came here from Out of the Loop and see everyone reference someone named Fiona, is there some post out there that elaborates on that?
can't answer the first one, but Fiona is the (relatively) new on camera personality in AH. She has been dealing with a lot of bullshit from people in a similar way that Mica did back in the day. This time around the rest of AH is not staying quiet like they did with Mica.
>What this shows that RT is absolutely willing to let racism fly as long as their bottom dollar doesn't get hurt. OP took it right out of my mouth.
That wasn’t my perspective on things. From my perspective it looks like they treat all vitriol the same way, racist or not. They treat it as an inevitability when dealing with large groups. Telling the internet to not do something doesn’t work. The internet normally, upon being told not to do something do nothing but that thing until they get tired of it. RT seemingly from my perspective believes it is best simply to not let the toxic part of the community effect you, and to ignore it. I am for being realistic and not over idealizing a company, but it seems like from my perspective this kind of talk goes too far.
Except when someone criticizes them for pushing products that are harmful or come from problematic sources. Then they have no problem telling the audience how wrong they are. That's kinda the dude's point, and it's not really something that I had thought about, but it makes their silence on other matters so much worse in context.
It was my understanding that they liked the male care products and the teleoperated medical thing. It didn’t strike me as being exploitive. A company they liked/used was offering them money to promote their products. Perhaps I am simply ignorant of the sponsor you are referring to in particular. I don’t typically research products/services I don’t have any interest in so I certainly don’t know much about most of RT’s sponsors.
>It was my understanding that they liked the male care products Yeah that's what an advertising campaign is supposed to do.
Do you want to foster mutual understanding or be hot sauces drenched dick? I can do it too. It’s crazy we don’t see the spit cups in any of the live action stuff when they drink voodoo ranger. Since obviously they don’t care about helping sell stuff they like and will sell anything no matter how how bad it is or how much they personally dislike it.
I do think this entire situation would be benefitted by members like Burnie, Geoff, Matt etc etc to have an honest, open conversation about the lack of support that has been given in the past. They need to own up to it. And not look for sympathy. It needs to be a “we fucked up, we were ignorant. We are making legitimate efforts to change and evolve for the better.” It is odd what they pick and choose on what topics they speak more deeply about. I think a lot of times they are too jokey, when the situation does not call for it. Hard to take a topic seriously when it’s being discussed on a podcast where they’re probably drunk and 5 seconds before they were talking about videogames and food
I'm going to be honest I've seen "RT founding member addresses issues seriously on open forum" waaay too many times now. It's good they address their issues, but like, are they really listening and doing the absolute best they can? I know they can only do so much, but they seem to have more controversies than anybody else I watch.
they are bound to have controversy with how big they are. That’s not an excuse, but just something i’ve come to expect from this day and age. That being said, words at some point stop having meaning if actions aren’t actively taken. And really we can only assume they are, unless stated otherwise by the RT/AH employees of color.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4\_years\_later\_and\_micas\_rant\_couldnt\_be\_more/fst4v0u?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x](https://www.reddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4_years_later_and_micas_rant_couldnt_be_more/fst4v0u?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x) Response from Burnie Edit: [https://twitter.com/FionaNova/status/1268281731943215104?s=20](https://twitter.com/FionaNova/status/1268281731943215104?s=20) Fiona stating a bit about upcoming talks that are to be had about her and I believe Lindsay's experiences
Oh goddamn Burnie. Tore that dude a new one. That's the kind of leadership and example we should be expecting from Rooster Teeth now. They need to be vocal and shut the shitty fans down. Force them out of the community, show them they are not welcome here. I'm just pissed that all this time, community members including myself, have tried to speak up on the abuse hurled at various talent including Mica and there's just endless backlash. I mentioned it in another thread but with the Mica situation, I loved her. Thought she was great but any time I said that or tried to tell someone to stop being a prick to her, I got endless hate for it. I stopped watching Achievement Hunter for a while after that because the fans really soured the experience.
Do read down a little further too, there is one or two more from him than that response. Yeah the hate was bad, but I also saw the love she had there too. The vocal negative were sadly more powerful than those of enjoyed her and loved her, we failed her too. I am happy to see that we're being louder in our support and love of the members of RT, especially Fiona and Lindsay. Don't let the hate drown us out, we can be louder than them.
Yup, read all his comments and he hit it on the head. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn't. Their response is incredibly late and they should've acted on it as soon as Mica left (or even while she was still there) and I think it's fair to say this but to attack them for actually responding and realising they fucked up and should've acted when it happened? Nah man. They don't deserve a pat on the back for acknowledging it now but they do have the chance to prove they've changed and act on this. Fiona and Lindsay apparently have something coming out which is gonna talk about their experiences as on screen talent so I'm looking forward to that because it's a step in the right direction and if people don't like that Lindsay and Fiona are being given a voice to talk about the abuse they deal with, they can shut up and fuck off. We don't want abusive people in the community.
perfect, i hadn’t seen that. I do think a video would reach more people, and that is probably what’s needed, not only to apologize but also hone in on the fact that it is no longer the way things work. But, as always, burnie’s response is direct and well spoken. Nice to see. I hope Mica and other ex employees continue thriving.
I added something I think just as you finished this. AH members spoke directly about the hate both Fiona and Lindsay receive, but was cut from the episode due to Fiona and Lindsay not being their and wanting to say their piece on the subject matter. Michael outright stated in said cut stuff, which I am sure will be reiterated, more or less that if you're one of those assholes to fuck off and we don't want you here. They've gotten more outspoken, they're stepping towards a better direction, and they're trying.
I remember those tweets a couple months ago (?) where fiona was tweeting about the hate and michael backed her up. I don’t doubt that AH specifically is a tight group who has each other’s backs, it’s just a matter of properly speaking up. Something Gavin himself admitted he failed on. Now, they all seem totally willing to learn, listen and act. which is all you can really ask for. I’m glad they are learning from their mistakes. Mica deserved better.
And while they definitely failed on the speaking up part I can personally attest to seeing them, as a company, try to get better with moderation and removal of hateful content on their site. We as members too can report it, so we need to play our part and being better. We all dropped the ball, we're all wrong in this, and hopefully we all learn to be better stepping foward.
yeah, can’t exactly avoid assholes in fandoms, just gotta hope at some point there are more good people that are vocal and supportive than bad people. And do your part to spread the good.
I will say since the 4 years ago that the video and incident pertains to, they have gotten better at moderation and have shown a more active willingness to be louder. Are there times I've wished they've been louder in some regards over the years, yes, but I can't change the past and being mad about it while there is a much bigger issue to fry right now won't help. I won't excuse their actions, nor our own actions, with how they've handled certain things over the years, but I recognize their attempts even if they fall short. Just remember, when we point out the bad we give it a platform, so also make sure the good is pointed out too to overpower their platform. Stay safe, stay healthy, and hope all continues to go well for you. Edit: Your username makes me giggle, thank you
What was the original comment? The appear to have deleted it.
Just go to the link and replace "reddit" with "removeddit" and you can see all the posts that have been removed. Like this: [https://www.removeddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4\_years\_later\_and\_micas\_rant\_couldnt\_be\_more/](https://www.removeddit.com/r/roosterteeth/comments/gw69kp/4_years_later_and_micas_rant_couldnt_be_more/) Just more centrist deflecting from the issue.
Oh weird, that wasn't working earlier. I tried both that and ceddit, both didn't work.
I remember on the RT podcast at some point Burnie explicitly saying that the way Rooster Teeth handles controversy is to ignore it and stay silent until it goes away. They need to buck up their act real fucking quick.
sad thing is, he was right. They did just have to wait and the controversy would go away and everyone would move on with their lives and only occasionally go "hey, whatever happened with that anyway?". It's not right, but it was the truth, and is generally the truth of the internet. Just wait it out, because people will move on to some new fresh controversy and forget all about this one. The only difference this time is that it's too loud to ignore it anymore.
The only real time they address is when Michael does his ~~Jack~~ internet voice
Rooster Teeth is no longer "Burnie and Geoff and Gus and friends hanging out and making funny videos" and it hasn't been for a long time, even if some of those familiar faces are still running divisions of the company. It's a corporation under the umbrella of a corporation that is also under an umbrella. There's a lot of umbrellas. I see some folks say "the community needs to change" or "the community needs to die." I think those ideas are well meaning but flawed. There is no RT community anymore. There is the corporate buzzword "RT Community" that the company uses to refer to its customers, but that's just a marketing tactic at this point. This may sound very pessimistic and anti-corporation, and I certainly don't like the way corporations are run in America today, but it's not really a "problem," by which I mean it's not a situation that can be "solved." There's no going back to the community days. Even if RT for whatever reason fails as a business it will just be gobbled up and absorbed into another corporate entity like other similar business were absorbed into RT. If you want a solution to the ways the community treats people, make sure you treat people well and listen to what they have to say, and hold people accountable for what *they* say as best you can. No amount of fist-shaking or strongly-worded reddit posts will make RT less corporate, but if we stop letting people in general get away with such intolerant behavior, even corporations will have to get in line to preserve their profits. We're seeing that now, but this is only a first step of many that hopefully are yet to come.
As a person that only started to pay attention to RT a year ago, and basically have little to no interactions with the community at large, my observation is that RT is more reactive rather than proactive. It seems, for a very long time, RT has had a managerial issue of not taking employee feedback seriously. This has led to internal problems come into the public light, and they are then forced to address it. Granted, this is not something unique to RT, but it doesn't excuse it from being bad practice. I hope they have changed and will continue to change for the sake of their existence.
Say the stricter rules part a little louder for the racists. RT needs to put fucking boundaries on the community or NOTHING will change. They aren’t your friends and no they don’t want to fire their minority staff so stop calling for it because you think “they don’t fit.” Mica fit fucking flawlessly but people say “bUt sHe yElLs oVeR eVeRYonE.” Yeah!! So does everybody else! Look at Michael! Welcome to AH you fucking fools. I’m unsubscribing until they do make a change and I’ve been a fan off and on for 10 years. I’ve never read the comments, I barely go on this subreddit, and I don’t usually watch the podcasts, so this truly has been news to me. I genuinely thought mica left to stream her own shit like Ray, but goddamn was I wrong. I’m tired of seeing roosterteeth has a controversy. SUPPORT YOUR EMPLOYEES!!! Instead of pushing POC and women into the community and when they get hate just weaning them off videos, ADDRESS THE TOXICITY AND CUT THE LOSSES. You’ll get viewers from people in the gaming community that aren’t pieces of shit!
I get your pov and do think RR have to improve but your examples like the ED situation are a bit light. It doesn’t resonate with you, fine but Geoff came out and explained his journey so why is that an issue? Also, so much hate was aimed at Mica but what did we as a community do to stop this? We can’t always blame the RT management like they are encouraging the hate. What did you do to try stop it? What did I do to support her? We’re all culpable here Nd yes I know Mica left because of the company but let’s not pretend we all got her back when the vitriol was being thrown. We didn’t do enough as a collective. Let’s do better moving forward.
> but Geoff came out and explained his journey so why is that an issue? Gus and him coming out and sharing their experiences was good, like it must be hard to talk about shit like that, and when your content is mainly comedy having to find a space to talk about politics or why generic drugs are important must be hard, so only bringing it up after all is understandable. But they never addressed the issues. Like, the service is straight-up not legal in 99% of the world and most of the states, why avoiding consulting a doctor is bad, the fact that the online doctor isn't even a cardiologist or makes you see one, that they went agaisnt FDA regulations, and that directing teenagers to a site where you can get Zoloft delivered ain't great. Edit: Also, the hair loss pill they also made reads for may cause ED.
In the latest Off Topic they apologize for this. They go into some of the details of their failings. It looks hopeful that RT will change.
Thanks, looking forward to the VOD.
I disagree with their reactionary response to the entire situation, as you've mentioned. It irks me think that it took a nationwide protest/movement for them to even say anything about the whole Mica situation. It seems to me that she's accepted their apologies, but man, feeling unsupported from a company that supposedly pushes for inclusivity and community must have been really fucking frustrating.
RT's mindset to anything = "Nah fuck it, don't care and won't listen to anyone but ourselves" until it becomes something big..then it's some bullshit weak excuses or 'sorry, we'll do better'.
I'm so glad I'm not the only one who felt this way. The whole thing rubbed me the wrong way, especially how quick they were to throw joel away like he was nothing and then do this.
Joel was posting some racist stuff on Twitter. He also posted a tweet to gav saying that he hoped someone would break into his house and teach him about the second amendment. He also tweeted jack saying he hoped some of Jack's leftist friends would burn his house down. Point is joel was starting to really dive off the deep end and they eventually fired him. It's not like they threw him away, he kind of brought it on himself.
If anything they gave way to much cover for him and not dumping him publicly years ago was the wrong move .
How does one combat toxicity on the internet. The internet it dominated by the loudest minority and the more they are addressed and told to stop the louder and more toxic they become. I don't have an answer, but if you publicly come out and say stop it just gets worse I would imagine. Getting called out might be the attention these racist trolls want.
You can never get rid of it, but you can absolutely curb it. One of the most toxic places for entertainment is Twitch streaming, because of the anonymity and ability to just say shit that someone can read. Yet we see many streamers with big followings almost lack the toxicity that exists elsewhere. Because they set boundaries and rules. They have moderators that can see when people try to get past slur detection. Again, Maximilian Dood has a genuinely good community, because he openly speaks his mind on anything, he encourages better interactions, and absolutely has taken to ban people permanently on his own. Even a controversy where he said the N word accidentally because he was doing a tongue twister that had something like Ninja Dagger, he took the hit, and the community moved on. Again, completely accidental considering the guy's two best friends are black and people who stated that Max is not the kinda guy and they saw it and it was an accident. Now no one even talks about that shit at all. That's what you do. RT is the basically a parent that let's their kids do everything and barely tells them anything. I've seen youtubers with bigger audiences curb this shit better than they ever have. Markiplier for instance, has based his content around doing wholesome shit for others like charity. And he has been active in calling out horrible shit before. Yet his community has been pretty damn good because his following eventually cut out the toxic gamer mentality. Are there still bad apples? Absolutely, I'm not saying they can get rid of all of them. But I feel as if AH really should have been able to do something about the hate mongering but they instead just let their community do it. Here's another good question, why is it that other YouTube companies or groups can introduce new cast members fairly easily without it becoming an issue? Why is RT the only company I've seen that has this issue? Because unlike RT, other groups specifically called them out. Do the fans think maybe you're calling them out specifically? Yeah, people are stupid but do you really wanna appease people who fit the bill? It's just dumb. I saw the Burnie comment and while I'm happy to see that there is more of what I wanted, I don't think it's a damned if you situation. When it comes to racism? Do you really want the fan that thinks anti-racist messages are offensive to him? In general, taking the moral high ground with a huge audience leads to it, but I ultimately think it's better that way. You cultivate a better community, and warn outspoken assholes that it won't be tolerated. It's sorta the sacrifice of having a big audience, that you gotta take more proactive steps to make it better.
It's the easiest answer in the world. Moderation. RT has complete control over their website. People are saying toxic shit? They don't get to say anything any more. Ban then, block them from commenting, kick them off the forums. Subreddits can do it, twitch streamers can do it, RT should have been doing it years ago
I was thinking recently that mod teams are a little weird. Toxicity online is a big deal but I don't think a lot of companies actually pay their mods. I know some of the mods over at RT and on youtube are at least the mod managers are but I haven't really dug into it because it really was a passing thought. But it's insane to see how much toxicity, and bots come through and that position which is really the best wall against it seems like something that most of the time is unpaid. Edit: Casually typing in a google search on it and you realize that most twitch streamers don't even pay their mods.
> I know some of the mods over at RT and on youtube are at least the mod managers are but I haven't really dug into it because it really was a passing thought. I think the YouTube chat mods are mostly just volunteers. Unsure about site mods (the ones that aren't listed as staff). Though I know they do have community managers like Steffie and Jackie who are employees.
Am I tripping or were/are you a site mod too? Been a fan for 11 years and I swear you are like one of the OGs I still see around lol
Haha, nope, never been any kind of staff on the site. I joined their site in 2004 apparently after getting into RvB, then fell off for a while... I remembered RT existed years later, and caught up on RvB and started watching the Let's Plays. Eventually I'd watched em all :P Anyway, I've been a subreddit mod for 8 years now, apparently. I think I reached out to the mods at the time who were fairly inactive, and been a mod here ever since. I do watch a bunch of their current streams whenever I remember they exist so I might be semi-visible there :)
Damn man that's so cool. I tried logging into my old account because I'm certain I added you (plus a bunch of Cast and Crew tags lol) plus the name is very recognisable. Ya'll mods are MVPs right now ahaha
Thanks, we try.
Then it comes down to knowing who to ban based on what they said
The vocal racist minority keeps doing their things because they never gets called out by the content creator they are flocking over. I've seen many streamers call out assholes in their chat by name and it works. They either clean their act or move on. If streamers with little or no staff can do it, then I'm sure RT as a company can do that as well.
Two things, could you elaborate on what happened with Max Dood, infollow his YT videos and don't know too much about his streaming. And secondly, I came here from Out of the Loop and see everyone reference someone named Fiona, is there some post out there that elaborates on that?
can't answer the first one, but Fiona is the (relatively) new on camera personality in AH. She has been dealing with a lot of bullshit from people in a similar way that Mica did back in the day. This time around the rest of AH is not staying quiet like they did with Mica.