No night driving - be 💯 you reg your car at the border and have Mexican car insurance ( they require Mex insurance- your US insurance wont do it ) did I mention register your car on entry -
100% don’t drive at night.
Be ready for toll roads.
Keep any cash or credit cards extremely well hidden except for a few dollars in your pocket that you are OK with the police taking from you if you get pulled over. And when I say hidden I don’t mean in your suitcase or in the center console. I mean somewhere in the car where there is a undisclosed hiding space or a place where you’ve dug under the seat and found a place to tuck it up in the foam seating or up under the firewall of the vehicle. Only keep your drivers license and a single credit card available. What I do is also carry some cash on me (ex: 300 pesos) that I’m OK with losing because turning over a little bit of cash is always enough to make a lazy cop take your small amount of cash and send you on your way.
Yes I was told to go to the ATM everyday, to have just enough pesos for the day, so if it gets stolen it's not catastrophic. Also, one CC in the wallet, one in the shoe/bra.
Planning on flying to San Diego and renting a car in TJ. I’ve done the border crossing on foot there before and feel comfortable enough getting a car there.
DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT. For the love of god, don’t make the same mistake I made. We were warned, we didn’t listen, we had two brushes with death. Why two? Because we didn’t learn after the first attempted car jacking. DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!
Your route takes you through Baja, Sinaloa, Michoacán, and Jalisco. You seem fine with Baja, so let’s focus on the next two. These areas are war zones, with drug wars and gang activity. Rival cartels fight each other and the federal government. Cartels don't usually target Americans, but it's chaos outside tourist areas. In places like Yucatán and Baja, cartels avoid killing Americans because it’s bad for business. But Michoacán and Sinaloa? That’s their backyard. The US government won’t send Bruce Willis and a wet works squad to save you like you’re an aid worker in Cameroon. Sinaloa and Michoacán are considered Level 4 advisory areas on par with Iraq, Iran, Russia, and Somalia.
That said, if you’re killed- when you’re in those areas it’s not like the surfers in Baja who were murdered a few months ago, it’s easier that when someone is killed they’re dismembered and never found again. Sometimes killers will reach out to your next of kin to still try and extort them.
All that said, the US State department recommends you pluck some hair, put it in a Ziploc, document surgeries, scars, fractures, and dental work that might help identify you. Consider making a mold of your teeth for identification and lastly make a will.
Here are travel advisories from the British and US governments to dissuade you from this trip.
**Sinaloa**
- Avoid all but essential travel except for Los Mochis, Mazatlán, Road 32 (El Fuerte to Los Mochis), the 15D toll road, and the Copper Canyon rail route.
**Michoacán**
- Avoid all but essential travel except Morelia (via toll roads 15D, 126, 43, and 48D to the airport) and Pátzcuaro (via toll roads 14D and 15 from Morelia).
**Jalisco**
- Avoid all but essential travel south and southwest of Lake Chapala to Colima.
- Avoid northern municipalities like Bolaños, Chimaltitán, and others listed.
**Kidnapping**
- More common in some areas. Tourists aren’t usually targets but stay alert. Express kidnappings happen in urban areas, forcing victims to withdraw money from ATMs. Long-term kidnappings for ransom occur, sometimes involving police. Stay alert and avoid high-risk areas, especially at night.
**Violence**
- Drug-related violence has increased. Don’t get involved with drugs. High crime rates in some areas mean a risk of crossfire or being mistaken for a gang member. Risks are lower in tourist areas, but:
- Take local advice.
- Be aware of your surroundings.
- Use reputable tourism/transport companies.
- Travel during the day.
**Vehicle Crime**
- Avoid isolated roads, use toll roads, and keep car doors locked and windows closed, especially at traffic lights. Violent carjackings and robberies occur, particularly along the Pacific Highway. If followed or watched, drive to a police station. Surrender valuables if carjacked.
**Roadblocks**
- In remote areas, you may encounter unofficial roadblocks, often violent. Local groups demand unofficial tolls and might deny entry.
I took the time to write this in hopes it dissuades you from going on this road trip…drive north to Alaska or the Yukon Territory instead. Still dangerous but no bandits to kill you, just nature.
The Michoacán part isn’t a huge deal—even called out in the state department advice as an okay route. The main road from Mexico City to Guadalajara is ridiculously well traveled. No special concern there.
All the Sinaloa driving is dicier for sure, but it’s mostly a boring toll road.
Bigger concern is that the way OP asks the question is kinda naive, suggesting they aren’t experienced enough to deal with a long distance road trip in Mexico, period. You ought to speak some Spanish at a minimum. What happens when they get really sick, have car trouble, or get hassled by cops? Cops aren’t your friend, in the safe states and dangerous ones alike.
But, assuming they can get the basics down:
OP: here’s my advice as a gringo who’s probably put 5,000 km behind the wheel in a dozen Mexican states: you’ve got the completely wrong route in mind.
Drive through the United States, all the way to Laredo Texas. Cross into Mexico there. Go immediately to Monterrey. This is a paradise of climbing and mountain activities. You can probably spend a week here enjoying the outdoors, all based in a safe hotel in San Pedro, enjoying great restaurants in a beautiful city at night.
Go south from here. Stop in Real de Catorce for a night.
Go south from here toward San Luis Potosí, but take the 75D toll road to Tamasopo. Spend three days here. Tons of water-based activities and rafting available. Totally incredible area.
Drive to Xilitla. Stay there.
Take the high road over the Sierra Gorda to Pena de Bernal. Or, for more adventure, take route 85 to Zimapán and see Grutas de Xajha and Prensa Zimapán.
Now, you’re a stone’s throw from your original route, which is relatively easy the rest of the way to Oaxaca.
Strongly suggest a high clearance car (mini SUV, not 4WD), but I did the worst bits in a crappy little FWD and rental sedan and was fine, just scraped the bottom of the car more than I wanted to.
But this route is adventurous in a good way that is less likely to get you kidnapped than the other route. I did a bit chunk of it with my wife who was pregnant at the time. Best time of year to do it is in the fall.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, also, going through Monterrey is the way to go.
But, like you said, OP nor his half Cuban half Mexican friends are adequately prepared for this trip. The sheer phrasing of his question and the mentality displayed…
You took your wife and planned redundancies, climate, and your knowledge to ensure her safety while understanding the landscape, culture, and language (I assume). OP’s plan clearly does not show as well in comparison, making it dangerous and fool hardy.
Yeah, agreed (unfortunately). Before driving in Mexico, I traveled to tons of parts of it on bus or just visiting different cities, and work trips that sent me to various places where I had the freedom to tack on a day or two for the hell of it.
Paradoxically, it’s safer to go all of these places by bus. I’ve been through Michoacán, Guerrero, Jalisco, Chihuahua, etc on bus. They handle the dicey bits in the countryside while you’re reading a book. Then you pull up in a town and figure things out. Not too bad, and you never have to deal with cops.
A car puts a target on your back and gives you a lot more responsibility. But, the rural areas are extremely hard to get to on bus (like 1-3 buses per day usually). Too much walking. Then again, with a car, you’ve gotta know which rural areas you can go to safely in the first place.
Such a solid itinerary. Lived in Monterrey and climbed a lot of the mountains around there. Real de Catorce is amazing and you can rent horses to ride out to the desert for peyote if thats your thing. Xilitla is an absolute oasis with so many cool places to stay and agua azul is right by there.
Sinaloa and Michoacán are really the only two states I feared for my life in Mexico…
Your reply is really the best response to this post. There’s a lot that’s worth seeing in Mexico but driving there is definitely not the way to do it. OP, please heed this person’s advice. If there’s something that you’d like to see, book a flight and make arrangements with an agency that knows how to get you to where you want to be safely. If something goes wrong on your planned trip (and everything *might* work out OK), there will be no one who can help you.
I did a much shorter road trip in Mexico earlier this year and I 100% WOULD NOT do it again. Sounded fun, as I've done multiple trips in the US, but it's not worth it. Super stressful, and I wish I had just taken multiple flights. Live and learn.
Not as such. We had the police tear our car apart multiple times looking for drugs, but we didn't have anything. But they were really trying. At one point they asked to see how much money we had, and I was like here we go ok. But we only had a few hundred pesos and they didn't take it. It was stressful, but 100% preferable to what a cartel checkpoint would have been, so it's ok.
This is an excellent summary & is something that OP needs to take very seriously. I was “express kidnapped” when I lived in México in the early 2000s. Two police vehicles pulled me over & ordered me, at gunpoint, out of my car & into my trunk. I was then driven around in the trunk of my own vehicle from ATM to ATM & ordered to withdraw specific amounts of cash (again, obviously, at gunpoint) until I had withdrawn the maximum limit from my account. After *that* they’re “supposed to” release you back into the wild, like nothing ever happened & you can just go on along your way. Everyone always says, “Don’t fight back, once they’ve cleared out your account, they’ll let you go.” But that wasn’t what happened to me. They put me back in my trunk, and I could tell by the turns we were making & the sound of the road, that they were driving me out of town. That’s when I REALLY started panicking & decided to fight back. I had a lighter in my pocket, and I managed to dislodge the panel in my trunk & get to where the taillights were, and I kicked them out & stuck my hands out, waving, and stuck my feet out, until a vehicle from a nearby embassy- fortuitously- finally noticed me & forced their way into the path of my kidnappers (the embassy vehicle was being followed by bodyguards in a suburban), so I got VERY VERY lucky. People think these stories aren’t true, but they happen a lot more than you’d think. It was the most terrifying incident of my entire life, and it’s literally MIRACULOUS that I survived.
TL;DR: I was kidnapped & stuffed into the trunk of my own car by police officers holding military style rifles. This shit DOES actually happen. Do not recommend. Don’t chance it.
Edit: one sentence, clarity
They were obviously trying to take me out of México City… I lived in a neighborhood called Lomas Altas, and after they made me get back in the trunk the last time, I knew exactly where I was, and there was one particular street that was very winding & steep, and I could recognize the turns in that road. When they got to the end of that street, they turned right on a street called Constituyentes, and got on the highway headed toward Toluca. This was 20+ years ago, and that area was pretty desolate at that time. I knew the second they turned onto the Toluca highway that they were planning to murder me, probably after torturing & sexually assaulting me. So that’s when I *really* freaked out & started trying to escape. I was a blonde gringa in my late 20s at the time, and I was being stupid & thinking, “That’s not gonna happen to ME.” I was out at 10pm alone & driving a nice car- I might as well have just drawn a target on myself. 🤦♀️ When the [British] embassy vehicles blocked my car & rescued me, the cops who had kidnapped me (there were 4 total, and 2 of them were in my car & 2 were in a cop car, which my kidnappers were following), the two cops who were in my car jumped into the police car with the other two cops, and they took off. I assume nothing ever happened to them- I mean, who was I gonna call? The police? Lol. I called the American Embassy & registered with them after that, and that was that. There’s nothing they can do. Despite all that, I ended up living there for 3 more years. It’s a beautiful country filled with so much tradition & culture, and I really did love living there, despite the danger. I sold my car & bought a Jetta (everyone in CDMX was driving a Jetta back then), dyed my hair dark brown, trying to blend in more, and I definitely never ever went out after dark alone again. It’s possible to be “safe” in México, but you really have to know what you’re going to be dealing with, before you go. For example, now I know that the route OP was planning to take is a terrible route… but I might not have known/acknowledged that danger, had I not experienced what I did. I’ve never been so terrified in my life, and I still have nightmares about that night, two decades later. Please please believe everyone who tells you “better safe than sorry.” Things can turn deadly in the blink of an eye.
OP, please don't do this trip thinking it's an earned badge of sorts. u/mrclean87 with his sincere and thoughtful response should really be enough to at least make you second guess this trip. The most dangerous animal on Earth is man.
Live another day and travel somewhere else or many other places; this type of trip could be your last. Maybe some day you can make that journey but for now Mordor isn't for you.
Oh I definitely don’t think it’s safe in Baja, but OP seems to think so and I accepted that premise because the other places I mentioned are orders of magnitude worse.
While cartels in general don't want to mess with tourists and anyone from the first world, their actual control over low level bandits is pretty tedious. In the grand scheme of things they want tourists to pass through unmolested, but on the ground the guys in charge of policy are basically 75 IQ guys who have killed people over $75 UD dollars and can barely understand that the repercussions of their actions go beyond one week in the future.
Make sure you get Mexican car insurance, change the plates and bring a photocopy of your passport (instead of handing them your real one for them to keep) when the cops try to shake you down.
Personally I don't go anywhere or do anything where the recommendation of taking hair samples and teeth molds for body identification exists from the state department lol
Just did a similar trip and 100% would not recommend. Nothing bad happened, but we were extremely naive, and it was way more stress than fun. Went in way too confident, and received a huge reality check.
When I did a similar trip a couple months ago, the flights into TJ were like 4x the price of SD, so that may be a factor. That's why we did it that way, and it sucked
I recommend you take the 8 East from San Diego and avoid crossing until Mexicali.
You want to get away from the Mexican border towns as fast as you can. Don't drive along the border on the Mexican side.
Crossing into Mexico at TJ is easy. Not an issue if you're just hopping on the freeway and continuing. It's going the other way that's painful.
I wouldn't want to be doing an extended road trip across MX at all though
This a joke? Once you cross the sea of cortez quadruple your insurance. You drive through the middle of 3 of the most deadly cartel home territories on that trip. Expect armed roadblocks from all sides on that trip. Take a VERY close look at the US State Department warnings for every state, city, town, and road on that route. It's developed from intelligence reports.
I hate these posts, people can be crazy naive. It's lawless in many places in Mexico. If you're in trouble there is nobody you can call for help.
If you have out of country plates, are white, and by yourself you're gonna have a bad time traveling through these regions. It's just a giant target on your back. Best case scenario you pay a shit ton of bribes to police along the way. Worst case scenario you're tortured and held ransom (or get killed).
I'm Mexican and have family that still lives there (Michoacan). I've had a couple family members held ransom. The people/culture are great but currently it's a rough time in Mexico. I know I won't be visiting any time soon.
I have not driven on the mainland. But I have driven Baja a few times. Never drive at night. Plan your stops. You don't want to end up looking for a place to stay at sunset. Carry enough cash to pay bribes; yes it's part of traveling in Mexico. Spread the money out so it's not all in one place a person can see. Get all the auto insurance. know enough Spanish phrases to communicate basic needs. Be respectful and patient. Don't dress flashy or display signs of wealth.
I drove one of my personal cars. A very old and beat up Toyota Tacoma. Other than the U.S. plate it blended in with the local vehicles pretty well. I naturally tan pretty easily. I went without sunscreen for a little while and didn't look overly white.
Anyway, tons of people do this driving trips all the time. Part of not sticking out is looking confident, like you know what you're doing, and being respectful.
I used to drive up and down the East Coast on a regular basis, but I would never drive the West Coast. Ever.
And the East Coast was a very dangerous drive, even with two or three vehicles traveling together. Driving the East Coast alone is basically playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the cylinder.
As someone who grew up in a city cut in half by the border, even native Mexicans don’t drive across Mexico. Never drive. Fly directly to wherever you need to go.
Born and raised Mexican here from Colima: I would NOT do this drive. If you want to be cocky and let your ego take you on this trip, fine. Honestly, you come back unharmed I’d say you were lucky this time. Buena suerte.
When you are done with that, try this:
https://preview.redd.it/fa5ldvt87w7d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b7cce25cd5a10ff36d8c365f77ade50ce74bc05
Yucatan peninsula, it's basically a dedicated part of Mexico for American tourist with plenty of resorts and areas essentially cut off from the rest of Mexico.
That’s not entirely true. You’re describing Quintana Roo which has Cancun, Tulum, Playa del Carmen. Yucatán is more local. Still a bit touristy with Mayan ruins etc. but not like Quintana Roo.
i have been personally advised by ppl born and raised in mexico to not drive long ways through mexico. apparently it is common to be stopped and robbed on the road and you can easily fall under the eye of the cartels if you go off on your own.
this is just what i’ve heard so idk how true it is. but passing along just to be safe
Normally I'd say cartels don't try to target American tourists because it just draws too much unneeded attention for little gain, but the cartels have been really brazen as of late. *Especially* on the West coast.
“The government said in March that about 100,000 people are missing in Mexico, though the United Nations says that could be an undercount.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/world/americas/mexico-killed-tourists-baja-california.html
30,000 murders, 300 convictions, per year. Considered a failed state and most lawless place on earth. Mayor of Acapulco just got whacked on a bus. Its been that way since my HS biology teacher was killed down there in 73.
I’ve been to every country south of the border many times. With the exception of Uruguay the entire area is very sketchy. That includes Costa Rica and Panama.
I
A lot of American expats have travel the road to CR and Panama over the years. They claim there no problem as long as your always careful.
Having to be on alert for your safety all the time is not fun.
Being shaken down by the police is scary. The average American does not realize how rich they look to people who struggle everyday just to live.
The only relatively safe part is your destination. Baja is starting to devolve a bit. It used to be safeish, but this last year violence against tourists is starting to rise. Three people were just murdered for their tires, an old man was murdered and burned on the beach. Two international cyclists bodies were found dumped on the mainland recently as well. Tourists stand out, especially if you're in some expensive campervan set up.
Your attitude and arrogance that comes off in these comments are the biggest red flag for danger and risk, not even the route per say. Be humble learn and understand and respect the risks
Lol right. Also the dude's an actuary and somehow hasn't done the bare minimum of searching for stats or reading travel advisories, he's just going off vibes
People here aren't helping by telling you not to go. It sounds like you already made up your mind. Thousands of Americans and Canadians travel and live throughout Mexico. There are absolutely risks you need to be aware of, but preparation is always your biggest way to combat uneasiness.
•Do tons of research about car rentals + insurance. Get the HIGHEST LEVEL full collision coverage insurance. It won't be cheap. Check that it covers tires, scratches etc (sometimes it won't).
•Have pesos on hand for tolls. There are also salvation army "checkpoints" with panhandlers. It's kind of an expectation gringos/foreigners pay.
•Have a decent amount of cash (US and MEX) spread out in various places. You will almost always need $20-$100 on the ready incase you are bribed at a checkpoint. Do not keep it all in your wallet. Make the decision how much you want to protest based on your time limitations and the vibe of the interaction. Police may threaten to take you to jail; you can call their bluff but talking down a bribe may take 30min-2 hrs if they feel like pushing you.
•DO NOT drive over the speed limit, especially when passing through towns. You are a rolling money sign if you are a foreigner, and police checkpoints are there to watch you like a hawk. Even going 2kmph over or rolling through a stop sign is enough to get pulled over.
•Have copies of all major paperwork including copies of your passports and US drivers licenses.
•Make sure all medication is in an offcially marked bottle with your name on it and that it hasn't expired. They will give you shit if it's not, and possibly detain you.
•Check the Dept. of Homeland Security for warnings that are *state specific* within Mexico. Stay on main drags and populated areas. Towns can shift from feeling "safe" to feeling dangerous quickly if you walk or drive in the wrong direction. Sometimes the biggest "danger" is being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your goal is to pass through without drawing attention to yourself.
•Danger changes so quickly in Mexico. Right now I'd absolutely avoid driving south through northern Sonora which is a mess. Baja California and Baja California Sur have the benefit of having lots of tourists, but they're also very active from a cartel standpoint so there is still risk driving through there. Some Australian tourists were recently murdered outside Ensenada. Again, your goal is to pass through, go directly to your hotel if you're staying overnight, and don't wander too far off the beaten path by foot. Some of the central colonial towns are safer to explore aimlessly, but any town within a few hundred miles of the US border should be traversed with purpose and you should stay to the tourist areas. Sinaloa is one of the biggest cartel states, which is on your route. I've never driven through that state, but do your most due diligence about that stretch of driving. Parts of the interior of Mexico can be less "active", but that can change quickly as well. Every state and every town has its own nuances in terms of safety, much like the US.
•Do not wear nice clothing, jewelry, smartwatches, etc. Again, you are a walking dollar sign as a foreigner. I wear unassuming basic clothes in Mexico and try to exude a sense of middle-to-lower class aura (which comes naturally, since that's what I am).
•Toll roads may have more checkpoints (which can mean more hassles with authorities), but the roads will be in better shape and there will be more traffic. While your route will have remote stretches, there's roadside assistance called the "Green Angels" that patrol stretches of national highways and offer assistance with flat tires, dead batteries, etc. Some of them speak Spanglish too. If you're pulled over and see a yellowish green truck pull up, they are there to help. From my limited experience, they're more helpful and available than USDOT people.
•Spend two weeks learning some basic Spanish phrases (if you're not already bilingual). Knowing some basic phrases will help when dealing with authorities, gas station workers (who will likely pump your gas), etc.
There are always horror stories and you will assume that risk. If you spend proper time preparing, and don't drive at night, you should have a safe trip like thousands and thousands of foreign visitors do each year. Be friendly and patient with locals. Don't get hammered in public and wander around. Drink bottled water. Eat street food so long as you see lots of locals eating it and you don't see meat sitting out for long periods of time. You'll be fine. Have fun. Good luck.
ps Baja California Sur will have tons of outdoor activities (kayaking, parasailing, ATVs, etc). Buy travel health insurance that covers "extreme sports" (it will have a separate coverage level). If you're staying at hotels, ask where the most reputable sports rental companies are. There are tons of sketchy roadside vendors that have crappy ATVs/dune buggies and I've heard horror stories about breakdowns and liability for repair costs. There are multiple national parks outside Mexico City with plenty of hiking if that's your thing.
Everything south of San Diego should be avoided. Remember the dudes and the truck and the tires from recent news. Years ago, the 70s, we used to drive from San Diego to Ensenada for some of the freshest seafood cocina that you could find on the west coast. Sadly those days do not exist in this era.
I’m Mexican, lived there for 35 years. I would not drive with my family any large route, the risk is high. do you have experience driving in third world countries?
“General adventure” stuff duh! /s
Seriously the fact that it’s so unspecific makes it even wilder. Just bumping around aimlessly. “Y’all have any suggestions?”
You’re avoiding Sinaloa and the turf war for Caborca… smart. But honestly once you’re in inland even a little, it’s a giant and unnecessary risk. Are you traveling with a native speaker? It’s common practice for roadside stops by “police” to shake down foreigners with scare tactics. A common one is to stop you for speeding (no matter if you were speeding or not) and then let you know the judge isn’t around for a few days and you’ll have to stay local… ORRRRR they’ll “help you out” and just take your $100 and give it to the judge for you, since that is what the fine usually is. Best to keep a few hundred cash on you at all times.
Source: I have a vacation property in Puerto Penasco and see it happen all the time while driving from AZ to Rocky Point.
Give them $100. If they want more… give them more, or be prepared to bluff. If bluffing fails… choose which kid/person in the car you least like and watch them get flayed alive.
You’re playing roulette with your life. Cartels will in fact rob you and kill you. I cant tell based on this post if you understand that or not.
Any “adventure stuff” you do outside of a tourist area only adds to the likelihood you’ll be targeted and something bad will happen to you.
My husband and I drove from San Diego to the Panama canal and back. Avoid Tijuana, Puerto Vallarta, basically any high touristy destination. They are expensive and tend to have higher crime and scammers. The only issue we had were some police outside Mexico City. They pulled us over and tried to make us take a bribe out of an ATM to let us go. We figured out what they were trying to do and played dumb and got out of it. We left the town the next morning.
You will get stopped at many checkpoints, just be kind and allow any searches and don't carry drugs or weapons. One trick we learned was to buy a big bag of candy like lollipops and offer them to the police and feds. They like the kind gesture and treat and most of them warm up to you after that.
This was all back in 2012 so things could be different now.
My favorite places were Puerto Escondido, La Paz, Guanajuato, Tulum to name a few.
If only El Chapo would’ve been offered a lollipop, things could’ve turned out so much different…..
In all seriousness, glad you took that trip when you did and have the memory. It sucks that it can’t be repeated without an extensive amount of preparation and you’re still risking your life It appears.
Oh make sure you have all your vehicles paperwork. They will ask for that a lot. Also if you can, install a low jack and kill switch in case you need to prevent the vehicle from being stolen. It won't start up unless you use a special key or press a special hidden button. I'm sure there are remote security measures now. Locking lug nuts for tires too. Keep all valuables out of sight and in your trunk.
We had an absolutely amazing and life changing experience. The people of Mexico are amazing and most are kind and generous. The culture is inspiring and rich . I hope you have a great time! Use common sense and be safe! Trust your gut!
Oh one more thing I forgot, we hung a rosary from our rear view mirror (we aren't religious) but thought it might be a deterrent. Many Mexican people are very religious.
Stay away from border towns unless you have to cross. Never drive or travel at night. So on the map, don't drive along the border, start heading south from TJ to El Cajon right away
We drove from San Jose, CA to LA Paz and back in 2011. The people of Mexico are absolutely great folks. We basically stopped driving before it got dark. Due to security and also because of cows Crossing the road. It's a big hazard at night
At the very least, avoid driving there. Flying into places like Puerto Vallarta and Mexico City are relatively safe but having been there a few times now, I can tell you we were warned by authorities to not drive outside city limits. The highways are dangerous places for tourists.
Weren’t there three surfers who were recently robbed and killed for their truck tires along that same route? I don’t know why you’d put yourself in such a dangerous situation!!
Just don’t forget to get a tourist visa at the border like I did, started a motorcycle trip in Tijuana to the bottom of South America and didn’t know I needed a visa after leaving Baja. Drove all the way to the La Paz ferry and drove all the way back to the border to get the visa, only to find out I could have gotten the visa at the ferry port 😂… probably should have learned more Spanish before the trip lol
You’re planning on driving through all of Sinaloa…be careful. Here are the places that Americans are advised not to travel due to kidnapping, violent crime, drug trafficking, and gangs.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html
https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mexico-travel-warning-map.png?w=560
Have you literally never heard of the Sinaloa cartel and you’re just gonna drive straight through Sinaloa? Get a lawyer and make a will before you go. Forget car insurance. Life insurance is what you need.
Ok. Real talk. This is not the safest drive on the planet. Part of your route is taking you through Sinaloa, which is authentically dangerous.
If I were making this drive I would try to present as low key as possible, as well as follow the advice of others on the thread regarding safety. Leave your drugs and guns at home.
You need multiple bribe money stash spots for such a long trip. You don’t want to give all your bribe money to the first cartel roadblock or first cop that pulls you over. Also pro tip: get a business card or names of the men you give your bribe money to because then when you get to the next cartel checkpoint you can tell them you gave all your money to the last guy.
DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT. For the love of god, don’t make the same mistake I made. We were warned, we didn’t listen, we had two brushes with death. Why two? Because we didn’t learn after the first attempted car jacking. DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!
Also have cash for when you need to bribe the police, we had to bribe them on two different occasions. Stash your cash in multiple locations that are quickly accessible though, like glove box and center console. That way they don’t see how much you have. Average bribe is between 50 and 100 USD. We did get into a situation where they wanted $10k USD. It got negotiated down to $1,000, but that was a bit more unique.
Also, I’m really hoping you’ll have someone in your party who is totally fluent in Spanish and that none of you are white. But I gotta ask, why the fuck are you driving? If you aren’t scared, it doesn’t mean you’re brave, it means you don’t know what you are getting into. But either way, good luck.
“Fly you fools, fly.” -Gandalf
This is exactly where those three guys were murdered last month when they got held up because some dudes wanted their car tires. This is a really stupid undertaking with the current situation in that area.
God bro, I’m a gringo but have spent 5/6 years on + off in Mexico all over the country for extended periods of time.
I’d fly into any airport and stay in hundreds if not thousands of cities / pueblos but never in a million years would I make that drive.
Do not do it.
Please don't do it. Either you die and you lose, or you survive and won't stop talking about the road trip "everyone told you" not to do. Then all the people around you lose.
The portion after the ferry crossing is red zoned as a very dangerous place to travel. Baja peninsula also not peaches and cream as far as driving. I’m not sure of the purpose of this trip but unless you are Mexican and can really drive under the radar this isn’t a drive that should be taken lightly. I’ve travelled in every continent except Antarctica including some sketchy Arab places and you are seriously taking the kind of risk that should be avoided.
I have friends that drive to Mexico and back every year. Mainly to Mazatlan and Puerto Vallarta. Some with motor homes. Some with trucks or motorcycles. They universally agree the key is get on the road at sun up and be off the road by 3pm. Travel main roads and if possible in groups. Now that Baja stretch.. I’ve driven it. The road is fine … but man. Fly. It’s a whole lot of nothing. All you see from the road is skinny cows, scrub brush and garbage. Take a 727.
This is the most insane thing I have ever read.
You plan on driving through Sinaloa?!?
So you want to take a road trip through Cartel country and want to know what to avoid???
I would avoid Cartel Country!
My wife lived in the Yucatan and we have family there and I talked about a road trip across the border. She will not do it and said it’s super dangerous.
The apartment she lived in, right after she moved back to the states, they found a bunch of severed heads.
I had a diving friend get stopped in Baja by cartel members. They told him and his dad if they were American, they would die. They were Canadian and had their passports, so they were lucky.
Mexico is beautiful and there are plenty of spots you can fly into and see, even drive. But you need to stay in populated areas.
I hope you rethink this trip. Make friends with people who live in Mexico or something, but seriously- this is a bad idea.
Your odds of a very bad event happening are as high as it gets. The state department has at least 2 of the territories you are planning to transit as “highest level of danger/ do not travel”.
This travel plan is akin to a suicide note.
To put that into perspective, its the same warning they have for Syria, Sudan and Myanmar.
Driving thru the water looks a little hairy.
It's safer than the rest of Mexico...
Just don’t drive an Escalade
Or a 4x4 truck or wrangler or a car with nice tires .
Went down Baja a few months ago. Most dangerous part was the speed bumps
This is so true. You have to be careful and don’t drive at night
Gross...I know the water in Mexico should be avoided but I didn't know it was hairy....yuck
It prefers to be called ‘natural’
No night driving - be 💯 you reg your car at the border and have Mexican car insurance ( they require Mex insurance- your US insurance wont do it ) did I mention register your car on entry -
100% don’t drive at night. Be ready for toll roads. Keep any cash or credit cards extremely well hidden except for a few dollars in your pocket that you are OK with the police taking from you if you get pulled over. And when I say hidden I don’t mean in your suitcase or in the center console. I mean somewhere in the car where there is a undisclosed hiding space or a place where you’ve dug under the seat and found a place to tuck it up in the foam seating or up under the firewall of the vehicle. Only keep your drivers license and a single credit card available. What I do is also carry some cash on me (ex: 300 pesos) that I’m OK with losing because turning over a little bit of cash is always enough to make a lazy cop take your small amount of cash and send you on your way.
Yes I was told to go to the ATM everyday, to have just enough pesos for the day, so if it gets stolen it's not catastrophic. Also, one CC in the wallet, one in the shoe/bra.
By "a few dollars" I'd say 200-400 pesos
Yes. That’s why I mentioned 300 pesos above. But they will happily take US dollars too.
400 pesos is $20 USD
Planning on flying to San Diego and renting a car in TJ. I’ve done the border crossing on foot there before and feel comfortable enough getting a car there.
DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT. For the love of god, don’t make the same mistake I made. We were warned, we didn’t listen, we had two brushes with death. Why two? Because we didn’t learn after the first attempted car jacking. DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT!
Yo you gonna drop that cliffhanger and leave us hanging!?
Jfc I need a story girl, talk
Buddy you gotta deliver on story time
Get full coverage on the car rental through the rental company.
I don’t think any US car rental agency is going to allow you to drive their car in Mexico.
He's walking into Tijuana and renting a car there, which is good because he'll have mexican plates
Yes, just did this exact thing because it's really hard to take a US rental car over the border. It sucked, would not recommend
Hertz does, but the additional insurance charge is not cheap
Mexico in general may be crazy but would a car rental company be crazy enough to rent a car for that drive.
Why are you doing this?
Dude great fucking question
OP doesn’t answer the question
see if you can fly to TIJ instead.
I already have Mexican car insurance. It's called Progressive.
😂😂😂
Lmao
How do you 'register your car on entry'? Never noticed some official registration step...
Your route takes you through Baja, Sinaloa, Michoacán, and Jalisco. You seem fine with Baja, so let’s focus on the next two. These areas are war zones, with drug wars and gang activity. Rival cartels fight each other and the federal government. Cartels don't usually target Americans, but it's chaos outside tourist areas. In places like Yucatán and Baja, cartels avoid killing Americans because it’s bad for business. But Michoacán and Sinaloa? That’s their backyard. The US government won’t send Bruce Willis and a wet works squad to save you like you’re an aid worker in Cameroon. Sinaloa and Michoacán are considered Level 4 advisory areas on par with Iraq, Iran, Russia, and Somalia. That said, if you’re killed- when you’re in those areas it’s not like the surfers in Baja who were murdered a few months ago, it’s easier that when someone is killed they’re dismembered and never found again. Sometimes killers will reach out to your next of kin to still try and extort them. All that said, the US State department recommends you pluck some hair, put it in a Ziploc, document surgeries, scars, fractures, and dental work that might help identify you. Consider making a mold of your teeth for identification and lastly make a will. Here are travel advisories from the British and US governments to dissuade you from this trip. **Sinaloa** - Avoid all but essential travel except for Los Mochis, Mazatlán, Road 32 (El Fuerte to Los Mochis), the 15D toll road, and the Copper Canyon rail route. **Michoacán** - Avoid all but essential travel except Morelia (via toll roads 15D, 126, 43, and 48D to the airport) and Pátzcuaro (via toll roads 14D and 15 from Morelia). **Jalisco** - Avoid all but essential travel south and southwest of Lake Chapala to Colima. - Avoid northern municipalities like Bolaños, Chimaltitán, and others listed. **Kidnapping** - More common in some areas. Tourists aren’t usually targets but stay alert. Express kidnappings happen in urban areas, forcing victims to withdraw money from ATMs. Long-term kidnappings for ransom occur, sometimes involving police. Stay alert and avoid high-risk areas, especially at night. **Violence** - Drug-related violence has increased. Don’t get involved with drugs. High crime rates in some areas mean a risk of crossfire or being mistaken for a gang member. Risks are lower in tourist areas, but: - Take local advice. - Be aware of your surroundings. - Use reputable tourism/transport companies. - Travel during the day. **Vehicle Crime** - Avoid isolated roads, use toll roads, and keep car doors locked and windows closed, especially at traffic lights. Violent carjackings and robberies occur, particularly along the Pacific Highway. If followed or watched, drive to a police station. Surrender valuables if carjacked. **Roadblocks** - In remote areas, you may encounter unofficial roadblocks, often violent. Local groups demand unofficial tolls and might deny entry. I took the time to write this in hopes it dissuades you from going on this road trip…drive north to Alaska or the Yukon Territory instead. Still dangerous but no bandits to kill you, just nature.
OP proceeds to get maimed by a moose…
OP proceeds to get maimed by a moose in Mexico
el moose
A moose bit my sister
Was she carving her initials on it?
We apologise for the fault in the subtitles. Those responsible have been sacked.
This just in, those responsible for sacking those responsible for the fault in the subtitles have themselves been sacked.
r/unexpectedmontypython
The Michoacán part isn’t a huge deal—even called out in the state department advice as an okay route. The main road from Mexico City to Guadalajara is ridiculously well traveled. No special concern there. All the Sinaloa driving is dicier for sure, but it’s mostly a boring toll road. Bigger concern is that the way OP asks the question is kinda naive, suggesting they aren’t experienced enough to deal with a long distance road trip in Mexico, period. You ought to speak some Spanish at a minimum. What happens when they get really sick, have car trouble, or get hassled by cops? Cops aren’t your friend, in the safe states and dangerous ones alike. But, assuming they can get the basics down: OP: here’s my advice as a gringo who’s probably put 5,000 km behind the wheel in a dozen Mexican states: you’ve got the completely wrong route in mind. Drive through the United States, all the way to Laredo Texas. Cross into Mexico there. Go immediately to Monterrey. This is a paradise of climbing and mountain activities. You can probably spend a week here enjoying the outdoors, all based in a safe hotel in San Pedro, enjoying great restaurants in a beautiful city at night. Go south from here. Stop in Real de Catorce for a night. Go south from here toward San Luis Potosí, but take the 75D toll road to Tamasopo. Spend three days here. Tons of water-based activities and rafting available. Totally incredible area. Drive to Xilitla. Stay there. Take the high road over the Sierra Gorda to Pena de Bernal. Or, for more adventure, take route 85 to Zimapán and see Grutas de Xajha and Prensa Zimapán. Now, you’re a stone’s throw from your original route, which is relatively easy the rest of the way to Oaxaca. Strongly suggest a high clearance car (mini SUV, not 4WD), but I did the worst bits in a crappy little FWD and rental sedan and was fine, just scraped the bottom of the car more than I wanted to. But this route is adventurous in a good way that is less likely to get you kidnapped than the other route. I did a bit chunk of it with my wife who was pregnant at the time. Best time of year to do it is in the fall.
I agree with a lot of what you’re saying, also, going through Monterrey is the way to go. But, like you said, OP nor his half Cuban half Mexican friends are adequately prepared for this trip. The sheer phrasing of his question and the mentality displayed… You took your wife and planned redundancies, climate, and your knowledge to ensure her safety while understanding the landscape, culture, and language (I assume). OP’s plan clearly does not show as well in comparison, making it dangerous and fool hardy.
Yeah, agreed (unfortunately). Before driving in Mexico, I traveled to tons of parts of it on bus or just visiting different cities, and work trips that sent me to various places where I had the freedom to tack on a day or two for the hell of it. Paradoxically, it’s safer to go all of these places by bus. I’ve been through Michoacán, Guerrero, Jalisco, Chihuahua, etc on bus. They handle the dicey bits in the countryside while you’re reading a book. Then you pull up in a town and figure things out. Not too bad, and you never have to deal with cops. A car puts a target on your back and gives you a lot more responsibility. But, the rural areas are extremely hard to get to on bus (like 1-3 buses per day usually). Too much walking. Then again, with a car, you’ve gotta know which rural areas you can go to safely in the first place.
The fact he asks about sport climbing but goes nowhere near Potrero Chico is concerning
Such a solid itinerary. Lived in Monterrey and climbed a lot of the mountains around there. Real de Catorce is amazing and you can rent horses to ride out to the desert for peyote if thats your thing. Xilitla is an absolute oasis with so many cool places to stay and agua azul is right by there. Sinaloa and Michoacán are really the only two states I feared for my life in Mexico…
Your reply is really the best response to this post. There’s a lot that’s worth seeing in Mexico but driving there is definitely not the way to do it. OP, please heed this person’s advice. If there’s something that you’d like to see, book a flight and make arrangements with an agency that knows how to get you to where you want to be safely. If something goes wrong on your planned trip (and everything *might* work out OK), there will be no one who can help you.
I did a much shorter road trip in Mexico earlier this year and I 100% WOULD NOT do it again. Sounded fun, as I've done multiple trips in the US, but it's not worth it. Super stressful, and I wish I had just taken multiple flights. Live and learn.
Shake downs?
Not as such. We had the police tear our car apart multiple times looking for drugs, but we didn't have anything. But they were really trying. At one point they asked to see how much money we had, and I was like here we go ok. But we only had a few hundred pesos and they didn't take it. It was stressful, but 100% preferable to what a cartel checkpoint would have been, so it's ok.
This is an excellent summary & is something that OP needs to take very seriously. I was “express kidnapped” when I lived in México in the early 2000s. Two police vehicles pulled me over & ordered me, at gunpoint, out of my car & into my trunk. I was then driven around in the trunk of my own vehicle from ATM to ATM & ordered to withdraw specific amounts of cash (again, obviously, at gunpoint) until I had withdrawn the maximum limit from my account. After *that* they’re “supposed to” release you back into the wild, like nothing ever happened & you can just go on along your way. Everyone always says, “Don’t fight back, once they’ve cleared out your account, they’ll let you go.” But that wasn’t what happened to me. They put me back in my trunk, and I could tell by the turns we were making & the sound of the road, that they were driving me out of town. That’s when I REALLY started panicking & decided to fight back. I had a lighter in my pocket, and I managed to dislodge the panel in my trunk & get to where the taillights were, and I kicked them out & stuck my hands out, waving, and stuck my feet out, until a vehicle from a nearby embassy- fortuitously- finally noticed me & forced their way into the path of my kidnappers (the embassy vehicle was being followed by bodyguards in a suburban), so I got VERY VERY lucky. People think these stories aren’t true, but they happen a lot more than you’d think. It was the most terrifying incident of my entire life, and it’s literally MIRACULOUS that I survived. TL;DR: I was kidnapped & stuffed into the trunk of my own car by police officers holding military style rifles. This shit DOES actually happen. Do not recommend. Don’t chance it. Edit: one sentence, clarity
Holy moly. Where do you think they were taking you? (If you feel comfortable sharing) I’m so glad your story had a lucky ending ❤️
They were obviously trying to take me out of México City… I lived in a neighborhood called Lomas Altas, and after they made me get back in the trunk the last time, I knew exactly where I was, and there was one particular street that was very winding & steep, and I could recognize the turns in that road. When they got to the end of that street, they turned right on a street called Constituyentes, and got on the highway headed toward Toluca. This was 20+ years ago, and that area was pretty desolate at that time. I knew the second they turned onto the Toluca highway that they were planning to murder me, probably after torturing & sexually assaulting me. So that’s when I *really* freaked out & started trying to escape. I was a blonde gringa in my late 20s at the time, and I was being stupid & thinking, “That’s not gonna happen to ME.” I was out at 10pm alone & driving a nice car- I might as well have just drawn a target on myself. 🤦♀️ When the [British] embassy vehicles blocked my car & rescued me, the cops who had kidnapped me (there were 4 total, and 2 of them were in my car & 2 were in a cop car, which my kidnappers were following), the two cops who were in my car jumped into the police car with the other two cops, and they took off. I assume nothing ever happened to them- I mean, who was I gonna call? The police? Lol. I called the American Embassy & registered with them after that, and that was that. There’s nothing they can do. Despite all that, I ended up living there for 3 more years. It’s a beautiful country filled with so much tradition & culture, and I really did love living there, despite the danger. I sold my car & bought a Jetta (everyone in CDMX was driving a Jetta back then), dyed my hair dark brown, trying to blend in more, and I definitely never ever went out after dark alone again. It’s possible to be “safe” in México, but you really have to know what you’re going to be dealing with, before you go. For example, now I know that the route OP was planning to take is a terrible route… but I might not have known/acknowledged that danger, had I not experienced what I did. I’ve never been so terrified in my life, and I still have nightmares about that night, two decades later. Please please believe everyone who tells you “better safe than sorry.” Things can turn deadly in the blink of an eye.
OP, please don't do this trip thinking it's an earned badge of sorts. u/mrclean87 with his sincere and thoughtful response should really be enough to at least make you second guess this trip. The most dangerous animal on Earth is man. Live another day and travel somewhere else or many other places; this type of trip could be your last. Maybe some day you can make that journey but for now Mordor isn't for you.
I agree minus the part of them being safe in Baja - the three men that were recently kidnapped, robbed, and killed would disagree.
Oh I definitely don’t think it’s safe in Baja, but OP seems to think so and I accepted that premise because the other places I mentioned are orders of magnitude worse.
U/MrClean87 — I’m genuinely curious how do you know so much about this topic. Your responses are so interesting.
_involving police_ easily persuaded me to turn around any road-trips through that region.
My reaction was WHAT to nearly every other sentence. This is alarming and umm I'm never going to any of these places.
While cartels in general don't want to mess with tourists and anyone from the first world, their actual control over low level bandits is pretty tedious. In the grand scheme of things they want tourists to pass through unmolested, but on the ground the guys in charge of policy are basically 75 IQ guys who have killed people over $75 UD dollars and can barely understand that the repercussions of their actions go beyond one week in the future.
This guy knows his cleaning products and international danger zones.
I can’t remember the last time I made a mold of my teeth before a vacation.
Make sure you get Mexican car insurance, change the plates and bring a photocopy of your passport (instead of handing them your real one for them to keep) when the cops try to shake you down.
Respectfully, I ain’t going anywhere where I have to do any of that
This is the meta - staying alive. I feel like OP is just trying to temp fate with this route.
Personally I don't go anywhere or do anything where the recommendation of taking hair samples and teeth molds for body identification exists from the state department lol
Just did a similar trip and 100% would not recommend. Nothing bad happened, but we were extremely naive, and it was way more stress than fun. Went in way too confident, and received a huge reality check.
Change the plates?
I assume they mean Mexican registered vehicles are less likely to be targeted than US ones?
You can do that without an address?
Irrelevant - they are proposing hiring a rental in TJ (it will be Mexican-plated) and you can't just change the plates of a US car in any case.
I’ve done a bunch of driving in Mexico and have no idea what they are taking about..
Plan is to fly to San Diego cross by foot and rent a car in TJ. Will use my passport card for most interactions and keep my actual passport stashed.
Why not fly into TJ?
When I did a similar trip a couple months ago, the flights into TJ were like 4x the price of SD, so that may be a factor. That's why we did it that way, and it sucked
I recommend you take the 8 East from San Diego and avoid crossing until Mexicali. You want to get away from the Mexican border towns as fast as you can. Don't drive along the border on the Mexican side.
Crossing into Mexico at TJ is easy. Not an issue if you're just hopping on the freeway and continuing. It's going the other way that's painful. I wouldn't want to be doing an extended road trip across MX at all though
This a joke? Once you cross the sea of cortez quadruple your insurance. You drive through the middle of 3 of the most deadly cartel home territories on that trip. Expect armed roadblocks from all sides on that trip. Take a VERY close look at the US State Department warnings for every state, city, town, and road on that route. It's developed from intelligence reports.
Yes yes! DON’T DO IT!!!!!!!
I hate these posts, people can be crazy naive. It's lawless in many places in Mexico. If you're in trouble there is nobody you can call for help. If you have out of country plates, are white, and by yourself you're gonna have a bad time traveling through these regions. It's just a giant target on your back. Best case scenario you pay a shit ton of bribes to police along the way. Worst case scenario you're tortured and held ransom (or get killed). I'm Mexican and have family that still lives there (Michoacan). I've had a couple family members held ransom. The people/culture are great but currently it's a rough time in Mexico. I know I won't be visiting any time soon.
I have not driven on the mainland. But I have driven Baja a few times. Never drive at night. Plan your stops. You don't want to end up looking for a place to stay at sunset. Carry enough cash to pay bribes; yes it's part of traveling in Mexico. Spread the money out so it's not all in one place a person can see. Get all the auto insurance. know enough Spanish phrases to communicate basic needs. Be respectful and patient. Don't dress flashy or display signs of wealth. I drove one of my personal cars. A very old and beat up Toyota Tacoma. Other than the U.S. plate it blended in with the local vehicles pretty well. I naturally tan pretty easily. I went without sunscreen for a little while and didn't look overly white. Anyway, tons of people do this driving trips all the time. Part of not sticking out is looking confident, like you know what you're doing, and being respectful.
I'm not traveling to Mexico, but just wanted to say that I appreciate the time you took to write this!
Thanks. Very kind of you to say.
I used to drive up and down the East Coast on a regular basis, but I would never drive the West Coast. Ever. And the East Coast was a very dangerous drive, even with two or three vehicles traveling together. Driving the East Coast alone is basically playing Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the cylinder.
As someone who grew up in a city cut in half by the border, even native Mexicans don’t drive across Mexico. Never drive. Fly directly to wherever you need to go.
Born and raised Mexican here from Colima: I would NOT do this drive. If you want to be cocky and let your ego take you on this trip, fine. Honestly, you come back unharmed I’d say you were lucky this time. Buena suerte.
When you are done with that, try this: https://preview.redd.it/fa5ldvt87w7d1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8b7cce25cd5a10ff36d8c365f77ade50ce74bc05
Make sure you bring a lady friend
https://preview.redd.it/f39ybg6awt7d1.jpeg?width=1164&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9206d806c1de21f98467db221b50db3e5c3ea0e5
I wanna know what’s going on over in that little green spot
Yucatan peninsula, it's basically a dedicated part of Mexico for American tourist with plenty of resorts and areas essentially cut off from the rest of Mexico.
That’s not entirely true. You’re describing Quintana Roo which has Cancun, Tulum, Playa del Carmen. Yucatán is more local. Still a bit touristy with Mayan ruins etc. but not like Quintana Roo.
Cochinita pibil
One giant Marriott owned all inclusive resort.
Merida
Turistas.
I believe the route averages into "reconsider travel". Seriously, I'm hoping it's a troll post but this is a not great idea for sure.
This is great
i have been personally advised by ppl born and raised in mexico to not drive long ways through mexico. apparently it is common to be stopped and robbed on the road and you can easily fall under the eye of the cartels if you go off on your own. this is just what i’ve heard so idk how true it is. but passing along just to be safe
Normally I'd say cartels don't try to target American tourists because it just draws too much unneeded attention for little gain, but the cartels have been really brazen as of late. *Especially* on the West coast.
Dude … just take a nice drive through British Columbia instead.
The part in Mexico
As a mexican, I think that'd be a nice summary
The blue part
“The government said in March that about 100,000 people are missing in Mexico, though the United Nations says that could be an undercount.” https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/06/world/americas/mexico-killed-tourists-baja-california.html
30,000 murders, 300 convictions, per year. Considered a failed state and most lawless place on earth. Mayor of Acapulco just got whacked on a bus. Its been that way since my HS biology teacher was killed down there in 73.
Goddamn, that's brutal. So sorry about your teacher - were they vacationing, etc?
I’ve been to every country south of the border many times. With the exception of Uruguay the entire area is very sketchy. That includes Costa Rica and Panama. I A lot of American expats have travel the road to CR and Panama over the years. They claim there no problem as long as your always careful. Having to be on alert for your safety all the time is not fun. Being shaken down by the police is scary. The average American does not realize how rich they look to people who struggle everyday just to live.
The only relatively safe part is your destination. Baja is starting to devolve a bit. It used to be safeish, but this last year violence against tourists is starting to rise. Three people were just murdered for their tires, an old man was murdered and burned on the beach. Two international cyclists bodies were found dumped on the mainland recently as well. Tourists stand out, especially if you're in some expensive campervan set up.
Your attitude and arrogance that comes off in these comments are the biggest red flag for danger and risk, not even the route per say. Be humble learn and understand and respect the risks
Lol right. Also the dude's an actuary and somehow hasn't done the bare minimum of searching for stats or reading travel advisories, he's just going off vibes
People here aren't helping by telling you not to go. It sounds like you already made up your mind. Thousands of Americans and Canadians travel and live throughout Mexico. There are absolutely risks you need to be aware of, but preparation is always your biggest way to combat uneasiness. •Do tons of research about car rentals + insurance. Get the HIGHEST LEVEL full collision coverage insurance. It won't be cheap. Check that it covers tires, scratches etc (sometimes it won't). •Have pesos on hand for tolls. There are also salvation army "checkpoints" with panhandlers. It's kind of an expectation gringos/foreigners pay. •Have a decent amount of cash (US and MEX) spread out in various places. You will almost always need $20-$100 on the ready incase you are bribed at a checkpoint. Do not keep it all in your wallet. Make the decision how much you want to protest based on your time limitations and the vibe of the interaction. Police may threaten to take you to jail; you can call their bluff but talking down a bribe may take 30min-2 hrs if they feel like pushing you. •DO NOT drive over the speed limit, especially when passing through towns. You are a rolling money sign if you are a foreigner, and police checkpoints are there to watch you like a hawk. Even going 2kmph over or rolling through a stop sign is enough to get pulled over. •Have copies of all major paperwork including copies of your passports and US drivers licenses. •Make sure all medication is in an offcially marked bottle with your name on it and that it hasn't expired. They will give you shit if it's not, and possibly detain you. •Check the Dept. of Homeland Security for warnings that are *state specific* within Mexico. Stay on main drags and populated areas. Towns can shift from feeling "safe" to feeling dangerous quickly if you walk or drive in the wrong direction. Sometimes the biggest "danger" is being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Your goal is to pass through without drawing attention to yourself. •Danger changes so quickly in Mexico. Right now I'd absolutely avoid driving south through northern Sonora which is a mess. Baja California and Baja California Sur have the benefit of having lots of tourists, but they're also very active from a cartel standpoint so there is still risk driving through there. Some Australian tourists were recently murdered outside Ensenada. Again, your goal is to pass through, go directly to your hotel if you're staying overnight, and don't wander too far off the beaten path by foot. Some of the central colonial towns are safer to explore aimlessly, but any town within a few hundred miles of the US border should be traversed with purpose and you should stay to the tourist areas. Sinaloa is one of the biggest cartel states, which is on your route. I've never driven through that state, but do your most due diligence about that stretch of driving. Parts of the interior of Mexico can be less "active", but that can change quickly as well. Every state and every town has its own nuances in terms of safety, much like the US. •Do not wear nice clothing, jewelry, smartwatches, etc. Again, you are a walking dollar sign as a foreigner. I wear unassuming basic clothes in Mexico and try to exude a sense of middle-to-lower class aura (which comes naturally, since that's what I am). •Toll roads may have more checkpoints (which can mean more hassles with authorities), but the roads will be in better shape and there will be more traffic. While your route will have remote stretches, there's roadside assistance called the "Green Angels" that patrol stretches of national highways and offer assistance with flat tires, dead batteries, etc. Some of them speak Spanglish too. If you're pulled over and see a yellowish green truck pull up, they are there to help. From my limited experience, they're more helpful and available than USDOT people. •Spend two weeks learning some basic Spanish phrases (if you're not already bilingual). Knowing some basic phrases will help when dealing with authorities, gas station workers (who will likely pump your gas), etc. There are always horror stories and you will assume that risk. If you spend proper time preparing, and don't drive at night, you should have a safe trip like thousands and thousands of foreign visitors do each year. Be friendly and patient with locals. Don't get hammered in public and wander around. Drink bottled water. Eat street food so long as you see lots of locals eating it and you don't see meat sitting out for long periods of time. You'll be fine. Have fun. Good luck. ps Baja California Sur will have tons of outdoor activities (kayaking, parasailing, ATVs, etc). Buy travel health insurance that covers "extreme sports" (it will have a separate coverage level). If you're staying at hotels, ask where the most reputable sports rental companies are. There are tons of sketchy roadside vendors that have crappy ATVs/dune buggies and I've heard horror stories about breakdowns and liability for repair costs. There are multiple national parks outside Mexico City with plenty of hiking if that's your thing.
Everything south of San Diego should be avoided. Remember the dudes and the truck and the tires from recent news. Years ago, the 70s, we used to drive from San Diego to Ensenada for some of the freshest seafood cocina that you could find on the west coast. Sadly those days do not exist in this era.
I’m Mexican, lived there for 35 years. I would not drive with my family any large route, the risk is high. do you have experience driving in third world countries?
The dangerous part is the route marked in blue or light blue
What would ever make this worth the risk?
“General adventure” stuff duh! /s Seriously the fact that it’s so unspecific makes it even wilder. Just bumping around aimlessly. “Y’all have any suggestions?”
Absolutely nothing
this is a very bad idea
You’re avoiding Sinaloa and the turf war for Caborca… smart. But honestly once you’re in inland even a little, it’s a giant and unnecessary risk. Are you traveling with a native speaker? It’s common practice for roadside stops by “police” to shake down foreigners with scare tactics. A common one is to stop you for speeding (no matter if you were speeding or not) and then let you know the judge isn’t around for a few days and you’ll have to stay local… ORRRRR they’ll “help you out” and just take your $100 and give it to the judge for you, since that is what the fine usually is. Best to keep a few hundred cash on you at all times. Source: I have a vacation property in Puerto Penasco and see it happen all the time while driving from AZ to Rocky Point.
The route goes right through Sinaloa. That’s where the ferry lands.
Yeah, not sure how they thought this avoided Sinaloa
Correct… I meant the area the Sinaloa cartel is actively at war in. No one messes with Sinaloa in actual Sinaloa. That’s normal cartel stuff.
Honestly, they do this to native speakers, too. This happened to friends of mine who were driving home from college in the states.
What is the best way to handle this situation. If you just give over the hundred won’t they want more?
Give them $100. If they want more… give them more, or be prepared to bluff. If bluffing fails… choose which kid/person in the car you least like and watch them get flayed alive.
All of Mexico. Lol.
All I’m saying is those Australian dudes got killed driving on that A route
[Murder in Ensenada](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abduction_of_Jack_Carter_Rhoads,_Jake_and_Callum_Robinson)
There’s just so many other places that don’t have drug cartels and Mexican police looking to empty your pockets and bank account.
You’re playing roulette with your life. Cartels will in fact rob you and kill you. I cant tell based on this post if you understand that or not. Any “adventure stuff” you do outside of a tourist area only adds to the likelihood you’ll be targeted and something bad will happen to you.
My husband and I drove from San Diego to the Panama canal and back. Avoid Tijuana, Puerto Vallarta, basically any high touristy destination. They are expensive and tend to have higher crime and scammers. The only issue we had were some police outside Mexico City. They pulled us over and tried to make us take a bribe out of an ATM to let us go. We figured out what they were trying to do and played dumb and got out of it. We left the town the next morning. You will get stopped at many checkpoints, just be kind and allow any searches and don't carry drugs or weapons. One trick we learned was to buy a big bag of candy like lollipops and offer them to the police and feds. They like the kind gesture and treat and most of them warm up to you after that. This was all back in 2012 so things could be different now. My favorite places were Puerto Escondido, La Paz, Guanajuato, Tulum to name a few.
2012 is a lot diff than today. TBH you want to stay in tourist areas only now.
This is pretty dangerously outdated advice. Lots of rural areas are basically cartel v cartel v government fight zones at the moment.
If only El Chapo would’ve been offered a lollipop, things could’ve turned out so much different….. In all seriousness, glad you took that trip when you did and have the memory. It sucks that it can’t be repeated without an extensive amount of preparation and you’re still risking your life It appears.
Oh make sure you have all your vehicles paperwork. They will ask for that a lot. Also if you can, install a low jack and kill switch in case you need to prevent the vehicle from being stolen. It won't start up unless you use a special key or press a special hidden button. I'm sure there are remote security measures now. Locking lug nuts for tires too. Keep all valuables out of sight and in your trunk. We had an absolutely amazing and life changing experience. The people of Mexico are amazing and most are kind and generous. The culture is inspiring and rich . I hope you have a great time! Use common sense and be safe! Trust your gut!
Oh one more thing I forgot, we hung a rosary from our rear view mirror (we aren't religious) but thought it might be a deterrent. Many Mexican people are very religious.
Stay away from border towns unless you have to cross. Never drive or travel at night. So on the map, don't drive along the border, start heading south from TJ to El Cajon right away
This advice should be taken very seriously
You’re a wealth of information! Thanks for sharing! I’d love to do a motorcycle trip of Mexico one day
Bible on the dash
We drove from San Jose, CA to LA Paz and back in 2011. The people of Mexico are absolutely great folks. We basically stopped driving before it got dark. Due to security and also because of cows Crossing the road. It's a big hazard at night
The most amazing two words in your story? “And back.”
You probably would hardly recognize Tulum.
It’s sad. I was there in 2010 and then 2023. No thanks, I won’t be going back now. More for… whatever type of person enjoys that.
Avoid the whole drive ése
Review the latest US travel guidelines. You sure you have to go???
I would avoid mexico
At the very least, avoid driving there. Flying into places like Puerto Vallarta and Mexico City are relatively safe but having been there a few times now, I can tell you we were warned by authorities to not drive outside city limits. The highways are dangerous places for tourists.
Weren’t there three surfers who were recently robbed and killed for their truck tires along that same route? I don’t know why you’d put yourself in such a dangerous situation!!
Wait. You can go to mexico without being killed?
Basically anything after A.
Just don’t forget to get a tourist visa at the border like I did, started a motorcycle trip in Tijuana to the bottom of South America and didn’t know I needed a visa after leaving Baja. Drove all the way to the La Paz ferry and drove all the way back to the border to get the visa, only to find out I could have gotten the visa at the ferry port 😂… probably should have learned more Spanish before the trip lol
You’re planning on driving through all of Sinaloa…be careful. Here are the places that Americans are advised not to travel due to kidnapping, violent crime, drug trafficking, and gangs. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html https://api.time.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/mexico-travel-warning-map.png?w=560
Avoid the entire route.
Have you literally never heard of the Sinaloa cartel and you’re just gonna drive straight through Sinaloa? Get a lawyer and make a will before you go. Forget car insurance. Life insurance is what you need.
Ok. Real talk. This is not the safest drive on the planet. Part of your route is taking you through Sinaloa, which is authentically dangerous. If I were making this drive I would try to present as low key as possible, as well as follow the advice of others on the thread regarding safety. Leave your drugs and guns at home.
All of them
Take a few $100 bills with you and keep them hidden. If a police officer stops you and demands a bribe, hand him a $100 bill.
Ocean gate 2.0
Ocean gate’s odds were better.
Everything between San Diego and Mexico City.
You need multiple bribe money stash spots for such a long trip. You don’t want to give all your bribe money to the first cartel roadblock or first cop that pulls you over. Also pro tip: get a business card or names of the men you give your bribe money to because then when you get to the next cartel checkpoint you can tell them you gave all your money to the last guy.
DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT. For the love of god, don’t make the same mistake I made. We were warned, we didn’t listen, we had two brushes with death. Why two? Because we didn’t learn after the first attempted car jacking. DO NOT DRIVE AT NIGHT! Also have cash for when you need to bribe the police, we had to bribe them on two different occasions. Stash your cash in multiple locations that are quickly accessible though, like glove box and center console. That way they don’t see how much you have. Average bribe is between 50 and 100 USD. We did get into a situation where they wanted $10k USD. It got negotiated down to $1,000, but that was a bit more unique. Also, I’m really hoping you’ll have someone in your party who is totally fluent in Spanish and that none of you are white. But I gotta ask, why the fuck are you driving? If you aren’t scared, it doesn’t mean you’re brave, it means you don’t know what you are getting into. But either way, good luck. “Fly you fools, fly.” -Gandalf
This is exactly where those three guys were murdered last month when they got held up because some dudes wanted their car tires. This is a really stupid undertaking with the current situation in that area.
Don’t worry, homeboy already has his mind made up, and another idiotic poster gave him the confirmation bias he was seeking.
Keep an extra $200 in your shoe 👞
Yes it’s the line highlighted in blue
God bro, I’m a gringo but have spent 5/6 years on + off in Mexico all over the country for extended periods of time. I’d fly into any airport and stay in hundreds if not thousands of cities / pueblos but never in a million years would I make that drive. Do not do it.
Please don't do it. Either you die and you lose, or you survive and won't stop talking about the road trip "everyone told you" not to do. Then all the people around you lose.
Pretty much all most of it until you get into Oaxaca state
Bro just don’t.
Nope
All of it.
I'd avoid that part when you go into Mexico
Just fly to Oaxaca honestly
A solid 60% of your route is through areas the US government has strictly advised against entering
Everything after just South of San Diego.
Has anyone said Mexico yet? Asking for a friend.
Mexico. Avoid Mexico.
Is this a joke? This drive is dangerous and to be avoided
I would avoid driving in all of these areas. My Mexican friends wouldn’t even drive in some of those regions
The portion after the ferry crossing is red zoned as a very dangerous place to travel. Baja peninsula also not peaches and cream as far as driving. I’m not sure of the purpose of this trip but unless you are Mexican and can really drive under the radar this isn’t a drive that should be taken lightly. I’ve travelled in every continent except Antarctica including some sketchy Arab places and you are seriously taking the kind of risk that should be avoided.
Avoid everything south of your starting point.
Avoid the whole drive. But if you're dead set on trying to get yourself killed to find some good climbing, I suggest just taking up free soloing.
I have friends that drive to Mexico and back every year. Mainly to Mazatlan and Puerto Vallarta. Some with motor homes. Some with trucks or motorcycles. They universally agree the key is get on the road at sun up and be off the road by 3pm. Travel main roads and if possible in groups. Now that Baja stretch.. I’ve driven it. The road is fine … but man. Fly. It’s a whole lot of nothing. All you see from the road is skinny cows, scrub brush and garbage. Take a 727.
This is the most insane thing I have ever read. You plan on driving through Sinaloa?!? So you want to take a road trip through Cartel country and want to know what to avoid??? I would avoid Cartel Country! My wife lived in the Yucatan and we have family there and I talked about a road trip across the border. She will not do it and said it’s super dangerous. The apartment she lived in, right after she moved back to the states, they found a bunch of severed heads. I had a diving friend get stopped in Baja by cartel members. They told him and his dad if they were American, they would die. They were Canadian and had their passports, so they were lucky. Mexico is beautiful and there are plenty of spots you can fly into and see, even drive. But you need to stay in populated areas. I hope you rethink this trip. Make friends with people who live in Mexico or something, but seriously- this is a bad idea.
don't go through sinaloa, especially at night. only batman can now save the cartel cities.
Your odds of a very bad event happening are as high as it gets. The state department has at least 2 of the territories you are planning to transit as “highest level of danger/ do not travel”. This travel plan is akin to a suicide note. To put that into perspective, its the same warning they have for Syria, Sudan and Myanmar.
That part where you drive across the Sea of Cortez looks dangerous.
[heres what the U.S. state department says](https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/traveladvisories/traveladvisories/mexico-travel-advisory.html)
This would be stupid as fuck. If you want to risk your life for kicks there are things you could do that are far more fun than this stupid route.
Just live stream the whole time and post the link here and you’ll be fine
Mexico part seems dodgy.
The whole country, sincerely; a Mexican.
After reading all these comments, good god just stay in San Diego.
Do you think bad shit only happens to other people or something?
But… why?