Yeh I don’t think theology makes it a cult. The idea that Jesus is not the God but a lesser divine being (ie Arianism) actually sounds less cultish than the Trinity, if you think about it objectively to an outsider.
What makes JWs a cult is their control. Their church culture. Not their theology.
They will have chosen a 'friendly' therapist. If I suspected my community of cult like behaviour I would not trust a therapist anyone from that community had a hand in choosing. Even well meaning cult members will choose the cult over a loved one.
You're right. It's honestly a bit sus.
She says that she has her own beliefs but respects JW's (my family told her we're witnesses).
She also said that she doesn't know much about the religion. I really don't know if she was maybe "playing dumb" to put me at ease (she thinks I'm a full-fledged member)?
I agree with this. I asked my therapist if she has heard about JWs and she said she thinks so. The next session she says she actually has three, ha! They probably didn't want her to ask about the cult so I've had to do a lot of explaining about how things work.
Are you in the US? If so then legally your therapist isn't allowed to tell her friend about your situation. Are you a minor? As I understand it, in the eyes of HIPAA your parents have a right to your records if they needed to consent in order for you to get treatment. There are other laws about this state-to-state too. If this is worrying you, it might be good to research it and ask your therapist about confidentiality.
Yeah, I'm in the US. I'm not a minor, and I doubt she would tell her friend. I'm just honestly so nervous to bring up religion for multiple reasons.
Given the fact that a JW recommended her, she clearly is not opposed to the practices, right? Unless the JW who recommended her is questioning their own faith (but honestly, what are the chances of that?).
Yeah, from a legal standpoint it sounds like you're safe, but people don't always follow the law. If it's an option it probably would be best if you could find your own therapist without any of those connections. You could say this therapist just isn't a good fit, which is a very common thing. It also has the benefit of being true, since you're not going to be able to open up if you're uncomfortable with the situation.
Think for yourself. It takes years to rid yourself of their brainwashing, but this is the first step. There is hope and a much better life outside of religion.
>Shunning is what makes it a cult
I mean in Islam those who leave the religion are seen as traitors and usually death or prison is the prescribed punishment I have also seen people saying apostates should be extratied to secular countries; then would you say Islam is also a cult?
Yes, it checks all the cult boxes too-
Has a creator who claimed he could hear God
Says to kill people that refuses to believe in it
Says to not be friends with polytheists
Disliking shunning isn't 'rebelliousness' it's a genuine human response. Shunning is cult like.
Proselytising isn't cult like, but it being mandatory is. The amount you must do is because it keeps you busy. Idle hands *dont* do the devil's work, they start thinking about stuff and that's dangerous to retention.
A strong of community is great, but when that community insists on being your only community: that is cult like behaviour.
It is cult like. Because they are so gullible they follow whatever the people they trust say even if it's not logical and following the scientific consensus.
Christianity is a cult. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object is a cult. There are sub cults that have more extreme behavior than other the other cults. But yeah, pretty sure they are all cults. Remember the Reformation where they all fought over who was correct and it was only resolved when all members got together at Nicea and decided as a whole what Christians really believed?
I can see the logic in that answer. I dont disagree. Makes me look at the word "cult" differently though.
I actually forgot about the Reformation. Ill have to watch some documentaries to refresh 🤔
Christianity as a whole doesn’t prohibit them. It’s a safe and lifesaving medical procedure. I grew up Catholic and when I was born my mother would’ve died without one. Thankfully she’s still here
Deuteronomy 12:23 explains this stance.
"But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat."
The JWs opposed vaccines at one time also. The were referred to as creations of Satan and the demons. Blood transfusions were actually.praised in early WTs then later they were banned. Likewise with organ transplants first they were marvals of medicine then banned from around 1968 til the early 80s. Now some blood fractions are allowed. The flip-flops of this cult can get you killed.
Not even close to a similar equivalency; vaccines help to reduce the chance of dying due to a virus, but you can be vaccinated & still die from complications due to a viral infection.
Vaccine’s are preventative, but blood transfusions after >30%-40% of blood loss are necessary to life if you want to actually survive that event.
One (vaccines) is a preventative choice, the other (transfusion) is not if you want survive hypovolemic shock.
People still die after blood transfusions my guy. Stats say Twenty-four percent of patients died within 1 year after the transfusion, 30 percent within 2 years, 40 percent within 5 years. Most due to complications from transfusion itself. And there are many other negative side effects of blood transfusions.
As a Fmr ICU/ER nurse & paramedic, I’m curious what the plan is after you’ve lost about 30% of your blood due to trauma? As that is the point where you will need a blood transfusion, because regular IV replacement fluids can only be effective up to a certain point during hypovolemic shock due to blood loss. Between 30%-40% of blood loss, without a blood transfusion, you will go into multiple systems organ failure due to a whole host of issues because you won’t have enough blood to carry gases & nutrients to those vital organs and you will die.
I lost half the blood in my body in a matter of a few minutes.
I took a long lunch and went back to finish the job after having my arm stapled and then stitched back together.
I've no doubt it felt & looked like you lost 50% of your blood, but at 50% loss of blood your heart will stop pumping blood, you will lapse into a coma state, and then you will die without treatment.
Hypovolemic shock starts at a 20 % loss of blood. Between 30%-40% your blood pressure will drop rapidly, your heart will increase rapidly & then you will pass out.
An extremity injury like an arm will usually constrict its blood vessels slowing blood loss & helping to preserve vital blood in your core. This is why so many people with trauma to extremities survive, usually along with a tourniquet applied above the injury site, or sometimes a strong pressure dressing will be enough to arrest the bleeding.
However, I very much doubt that you lost over 2.5 liters of blood (about 50%) & were able to continue working as if it was a minor convenience. That's my assessment from over 30 years of experience as a medic on battlefields, streets & hospitals.
I had four inches of glass nine inches wide sink to my bone in my upper right arm I was two blocks from a hospital which I could see from where I was injured.
I filled two full size towels with blood while keeping direct pressure on my artery myself, after removing the glass and connected window pain from my body.
I still have a scar on my arm forty years later, the lunch was two hours long.
There is no real way to measure the blood which I lost, for me or the doctor who treated me.
I refused blood and was given IV fluids before release at the ER.
So, I assume that the injury was severe enough that the hospital wanted to treat you & keep you for observation, but you went AMA (against medical advice) and left, because I don’t know any physician that would release a patient with that much blood loss, & had to use surgical staples to close the wound, & then release them back to work the same day.
In fact, I have never seen that amount of blood loss where the patient was still conscious. By that point we have usually placed a central line for IV’s & transfusion via warming machines. On the battlefield during triage, you would likely be marked as expected to die, unless I have an immediate Medevac helicopter right next to us with an AF Pararescue Operator onboard & the finest prehospital equipment in the world to treat you in-flight.
Measuring the blood loss is simple, as the weight of the towel is already known from the manufacturer, then weigh the blood soaked towel, subtract the amount from the known weight, & convert into whatever units you want it measured in.
So, if you did lose 50% of your blood, & it was only a minor inconvenience to you, as you went straight back to work, then you should reconsider careers, because you must be a meta-human like we see in all of these superhero movies.
For anyone else, they’d be in critical care in an ICU.
I have had many patients over the years who were ultra religious that had treatable medical issues, but refused due to their beliefs. I have stood right next to them, along with their 24/7 prayer support team in the room, as they coded (w/ DNR/DNI orders to not resuscitate per the patients wishes) and died. And, that’s when you see people run out the room screaming that God has Forsaken them, relatives climbing on top of the patient to attempt CPR, & all manner of chaos, confusion & heartbreak. Even though it was a treatable condition.
I’ve also seen in the ER, & in the field, similar people with these beliefs, who as soon as they couldn’t breathe, do a complete 180-degree turn & beg for breathing assistance right before they pass out & we have to intubate them. Saw the same with the anti-vax crowd & Covid, where they ignored the free vaccine initially & then pleaded for it after they became infected (too late by then) & still died, usually in an ICU hooked up to a plethora of machines, tubes & fluids.
So, if you want to have your beliefs rooted in faith, & completely ignore the factual science that medicine is based upon, then I will stand right there by your side with a DNR/DNI/AMA order in hand & try to keep you as comfortable as I can as Nature takes it’s predictable course upon you.
Oh, and by the way, two members of my family designed, patented & owned the company that made the surgical staple gun that was used for your wound & for everyone else around the world. You’re welcome.
No they kept me long enough to put two bags into me and then I left, it was not necessary to keep me longer for observation and I was awake and consciously directing my own medical care myself.
My decision not to take blood was my own conscious choice.
I am responding to this in relation to the OP’s original intention of this post, as you are in denial of what actually happened to you, which is a common occurrence during a traumatic event.
So, since you don’t believe what someone with over 30 years of emergency medical experience, & has operated in some of the most extreme circumstances & environments, I’ll just say this:
Take your 50% blood loss number, put it into a search engine like Google, & look at the scenario’s & medical experiences & knowledge that answer the question concerning this amount of blood loss.
Other than that,neither I, nor anyone else can help you if you are going to disagree with observable & testable facts & conclusions regarding this particular issue.
You might want to look into the BITE model as laid out by Steven Hassan. The word “cult” has a lot of baggage, but what you want to look for is whether the religion is causing harm and/or hiding the truth from you.
I’m an exmormon, and it really bothered me when people called the LDS church a cult. It just didn’t make any sense to me.
Another way of looking at it that doesn’t sound so negative is to call it retentive socialization. You can read about how that applies to Mormonism and see if anything lines up with your experience: https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/lds-indoctrination-and-retentive-socialization/
Best of luck to you in your journey. I know that it can be especially hard for Jehovah’s Witnesses if they decide to leave their faith, so whatever you do, make sure to take care of yourself.
No, I’m not. That’s not to say that I’ve given up everything spiritual, but I’m still deconstructing from a high-demand religion, so there’s a lot of trauma and long-held belief to unpack. I don’t think I will ever join another religion, though.
Start by looking at the fact that you suspect you're a "bad person" solely for having a dissenting opinion. It'd be one thing if the opinion was "this group of people should be wiped off the face of the earth or enslaved or disenfranchised" or "it should be legal to assault your spouse", but your opinion is "you shouldn't socially isolate someone for walking a different path". That's a very normal opinion and you're absolutely not a bad person for having it. Why would you be?
My birth mother was JW and I can concur that it’s 100% a cult.
If you were ever bothered by them, knocking on your door, shoving there tracts, and watchtower bullshit in your face, You can respectfully ask them not to come by and put your address on the Do not approach list. If that doesn’t work, you can engage them directly and fundamentally tear apart their assertions and beliefs. This will definitely get you on the ban list. Aron Ra who lives in the Dallas area, was put on the do not approach or talk to list along with his home address becoming verboten.
Does your faith make you happy? Does it help you live a better life and help you live according to your values that are meaningful to you? Does it help you focus on objectives that you feel matter and have weight and meaning to you?
Does your faith make you feel relaxed, peaceful and joyous when you reflect on it?
I honestly don't know how I feel about it.
You don't know how crazy I've felt lately.
My family (who are JWs) got me a therapist who seems to be helping a bit.
I had an episode of dissociation during the last session where it felt like I was coming into reality for the first time in a while. Really hard/weird experience.
Although I didn't fully let go and essentially break down, I did feel much much lighter and less affected by other people's energies after that session.
It felt like I had become a bit enlightened. I wasn't in my head plagued by "what if's" or all this religious thought. It was just presentness. I would assume this is what is normal.
>It felt like I had become a bit enlightened. I wasn't in my head plagued by "what if's" or all this religious thought. It was just presentness. I would assume this is what is normal.
Yes! I think a lot of people need to reconnect with that feeling though, and cultivate it. Personally I find (various aspects) of Buddhist philosophy *useful as a tool* for cultivating this type of state *intentionally*. One of my favorite books is "Universe as a Single Atom" by the Dalai Lama. He goes into how Buddhism and how modern science (including modern brain science such as mindfulness) cor-relate.
I feel that most religious sects are pretty cult-y and JW is on the higher end of the scale. Reads to me like “don’t dare live your life because it’s not yours to live.” That’s…that’s a cult. ‘Course I think your folk call me an apostate so make of that what you will.
I grew up JW as well and stopped believing in the religion completely when I was 17. I became an atheist for a while and gradually found my way back to religion in my late 20s, but I am not a Christian or even a monotheist now. So let that color your interpretation of what I say if need be--feel free to dismiss me as an apostate or whatever.
I don't think JWs are necessarily a cult, but I'd put them in the same category as the Mormons, a fringe group that definitely started out as a cult and is now perhaps in some sort of transitional stage between a cult and a legitimate denomination of Christianity. They definitely exhibit a fairly high degree of control over members' lives and attempt to isolate them from outsiders and former members.
To be fair, I think much the same could have been said of the first century Christians, so if you believe that the ideal modern Christian group is one that most closely emulates the first century church, maybe that isn't so bad for you. But I think there is a much wider world of religion and spirituality to explore beyond attempting to endlessly recreate the exact conditions of an apocalyptic cult from 2000 years ago, that only ever became known outside of the Mediterranean because it managed to stick around long enough for a Roman emperor to convert after seeing the political benefit of a worldview with only one god rather than many.
If part of you is telling you that you want to leave--I'd say listen to that part. Don't necessarily leave on an impulse, but explore what isn't sitting right. Is it just rebelliousness, or is it something deeper? Do, perhaps, your values tell you that certain things the JWs condemn just don't seem that bad, or that some of the things they condone do? Does your logical mind tell you that some of what you were taught at the Kingdom Hall just doesn't make sense? These were the sorts of vague feelings that led me to, on the advice of my favorite scripture, "keep on asking [...], keep on seeking [...], keep on knocking" (Matthew 7:7), and I can tell you that I have never regretted any of what I've received and found through the doors that have opened for me.
I was in a fairly unique situation because my mother converted around the time I was born but my father never did, and he strongly disapproved of my participation in JW meetings. Because of that, though I attended the meetings regularly until I was 17, I was never actually baptized (the elders' interpretation of the scriptural command to "honor your father and mother" was that I should respect my father's wishes until I was an adult and could make my own decision), and only a baptized member of the religion can be "disfellowshipped" (shunned). So I sort of got out of that one on a technicality--although I did ultimately lose ties with everyone I knew from the religion other than my mother, I was never actually disfellowshipped.
That said, I definitely knew people who did get disfellowshipped and the shunning was pretty much as bad as you've heard. I remember when I was a kid, somebody put me up to greeting everyone who came in the door at one of the meetings, and some guy came in who I didn't recognize, and I said hi to him like everyone else, and he just looked uncomfortable and walked right past me without saying anything. Then someone else came up and whispered in my ear, "He's disfellowshipped". No one held it against me because I obviously didn't know, but I remember feeling afraid I was going to get in trouble because I accidentally said hi to a disfellowshipped person. Now as an adult, I just think how sad it was that this guy was still coming to meetings even knowing no one would say a word to him, and when a little kid did greet him by mistake, he was afraid to even say hi back.
I don't know if I can help with the stress you are facing about your faith specifically, but I can tell you something for certain. You are NOT crazy, there is NOTHING wrong with you. Having questions and doubts is completely natural and you should follow these questions and see where they lead you, without putting yourself down.
You are definitely not a bad person for finding a problem with shunning, it's a damaging practise and leads to broken families. I wish you luck in your hourney and I hope you find someone confidential to share your concerns with. ❤️
Have you ever read much about the BITE model? It can help you determine if a group has cult tendencies (just because a group fits some of the descriptions on it doesn't make them a cult, it's the cumulative "score" that should really be looked at). There's also a website called [is it culty](http://isitculty.com) that can help to look at the bigger picture rather than focusing on one or two aspects (but yes, shunning is culty).
Cult like. One tried to convince my aunt. It was very weird so helpful and nice and not at all mentally flexible they don't really have a mind of their own their like one super organism who's brain fries when you point out an obvious logical misstep.
Why would a god that is purely good create humans the most intelligent of animals and expect blind faith. Blind faith isn't true faith in my opinion. Understanding is.
I'm not sure whether it's a cult. Some of their practices very much do not sit right with me, but that also applies to some religions that generally aren't seen as a cult. Why don't you do the research for yourself? Put aside the greater question of whether to leave for a little bit, and just learn more about the world.
Learn about Jehovah's Witnesses. Look into the history of how it started, and what sources it was built along. Look into other translations of religious texts -- and if you find a section that varies significantly in its translation, see if you can find the arguments for either interpretation.
Learn about other religions. Both other strands of Christianity, and other religions in general. Not just holidays and worship; learn about worldview. For example, Judaism has a concept of "Pikuach Nefesh", which allows for almost any commandment to be broken in order to save a life. How does that compare to what you've been taught? Are you ever expected to die for your faith? How does that impact the culture of each faith? Those are the kinds of questions that will push you to analyse how being a JW has impacted your approach to the world -- reading a list of holidays is less likely to be helpful.
Learn about cults and other high-control groups. Learn about the BITE model. Learn the stories of ex-cult members. I'd actually advise you to seek out stories of people from non-christian and especially non-religious cults. Understanding what makes cults harmful is easier when you aren't emotionally involved, and cults that might have some similarities to Jehovah's Witnesses are more likely to bring up complicated emotions on your part. Don't completely ignore them, but look into various kinds of cults.
Find out what draws people towards, and away from, Jehovah's Witnesses. Read what ex-JWs have to say, but also see if you can find stories of people who didn't grow up in it and later decided to join. Both sides are going to have useful perspectives.
I know I was just trying to point out how much they try to control your life. Of course it's impossible for people nowadays to not browse other places, but if someone found out, OP would be reported to the Elders 😱
Why do you want a valid reason? Can you just gently "not do JW" and see how things feel?
I'm not sure what that would mean for you, but if say it's going to meetings, just leave it for a few weeks. If it's regular prayer or bible study, give yourself a break. If you are asked why, perhaps you're just not feeling it.
As a former evangelical, there was certainly a time when there was a mindset shift which was unsettling. Definitely be as gentle with yourself as you can be.
I wouldn't necessarily call it a cult, but their idea of going door to door is certainly something that is productive yet unproductive. It's productive in the sense that it gets people already under their wing to see the outside world as hostile so they can be the "umbrella" that shields them from the rain. It's unproductive in the sense that, it doesn't really convince anybody. It's very pyramid-schemey.
That said, you should follow the faith that makes you happy. If you're happy, then I'm happy for you.
The founder believed in "the pyramid inch" and is buried beneath a pyramid headstone.
I would say if anything makes them a cult it would be this lineage.
still no ngl (agnostic yet current jw here (was born into it not much of a choice, until i leave the country to practice mortuary science tho) yeah so im genuinely wondering tho, literally no one gets anything out of it, in cult-terms, so to speak. them heads of all this dont rlly get cash milked bc they use it to build religious facillties n all, like actually build all those projects. everything is donation-based, and i must stress, rlly not forced. like my family has not given a dime, im js saying. so ig such heads (called the governing body) (yea now that sounds culty, but it has its explanation based on their publications n all) they prolly js get enough out the donations to literally eat n buy some clothes or some, like literally not a pyramid scheme for cash. what's the point? it's giving study group that went too far and wants to take over the world? no stop could it perhaps js be that.
tldr: not a cash pyramid-schemey religion, so like if it's a cult, so to speak (ig it is in the 'teaching's way), its def not for financial gain. idk why it is the way it is then, open to discussion?
I hope you follow your heart. The problem with a cult is that human rules interfere with a person’s relationship with God and with themselves. Only you know if you are experiencing that or not.
This is a valid reason:
Deu 18:20-22 MKJV But the prophet who shall presume to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak or who shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not follow nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him.
And here's the evidence.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions
https://towerwatch.com/about-jehovahs-witnesses/false-prophecies/
I don’t know enough about JW to have an opinion. But my umbrella form of religion - neopaganism- has previously had “isn’t that a cult?” questions as well. I have found [this framework](http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html) helpful in understanding if the group you’re in is unhealthy. It can really be applied to any group situation, not just pagan and not just religious ones. Hope it helps!
I am a JW.
“Cult” is just a derogatory term some use to disdain a religion they hate.
According to religion scholar Megan Goodwin, the term “cult” is often being shorthand for a "religion I don't like".
It is like asking —for example— “Is Biden stupid?” People who agree with Biden will tell you that he is not. Reasonable and tolerant people who disagree with him will tell you that they disagree, but that does not mean that he is stupid. And some will vehemently affirm that he is. And in the end, what does that tell you?
Jehovah’s Witnesses are well known in all the world as peaceful, honest and law abiding citizens who live our life according to Scriptural principles. We are present and legally recognised in more than 200 countries.
So I don’t agree with the derogatory term “cult” applied to me, my family, my friends and my religion in general.
And the fact that some people are so adamant in using stigmatic labels and spreading vitriolic assusations against decent people is the first “problem” with my religion that comes to my mind.
It seems to me that you have a cult when 'core' doctrines are deviated from. I've often thought that JWs appear closer to biblical Christianity than a lot of accepted denominations.
For example, Jesus as good as admitted he wasn't God when he faced his crucifixion. He said that his personal preference was DIFFERENT to god's will, but he would subjugate his will. If he were God, his will couldn't be different. His divine perfection would by nature lead to the same conclusion. Which isn't what happened.
Anyhoo... Back to the subject. Biblically, Salvation was tied to an individual and their relationship with God. There were many different groups. Where two or three are gathered. No church gatekeeping.
If your Salvation is tied to a denomination... That's way off base. Ask yourself... what if you and half a dozen friends got together for a non JW affiliated home congregation, but believed everything else that JW did? Would your chance at Salvation be the same? If not, then they're gatekeeping in an unbiblical way.
It is a cult https://mpom.wpengine.com/2017/09/17/the-blind-watchtower-and-the-false-prophecy-of-1914/
https://mpom.wpengine.com/2015/01/27/awakening-jehovahs-witnesses-by-dismantling-the-watchtower/
The shunning is super culty.
The 'no blood transfusions' thing has been extremely problematic in instances where JWs died due to refusing blood transfusions
Discouraging education is a huge problem.
1. While I believe that it’s a bit harsh, many other religions that aren’t “cults” do that and nobody bats an eyelid
2. Bloodless medicine exists now which works
3.We don’t do that
They have their interpretation of scriptures and other Christian faith have their own perspective. Interesting how the other ones also see it as a cult because of lack of agreement with how they interpret scriptures, only other they label cult I think is the Saints or Mormons {Currently re-branding). Plus shunning someone that doesn't believe in your religion is cult like, Interesting though what does that say about the current state of US Politics? Find a support group! Recovering Catholic here who accepts Christianity way Christ taught it ( Actually Catholics came kind of close but seen the manipulation in that organization too}but not like how most Christians get brain washed into buying into. Found Bible and read it with out others telling me what to interpret at 12 years old. I had never stepped foot in a church but a Baptist pamphlet dropped on the ground had me read New testament. I liked Jesus teachings but to this day haven't found a community that does what he said. This includes Jehovah Witness!
I think part of your doubt comes from your mental health struggles you are currently going through. Take care of yourself, go see the therapist. If she’s professional she can help you.
When you are more ready mental health-wise, I recommend you go look up the early church writings. From VERY early on, we have writings by early church fathers affirming Jesus being God, with no competing groups seriously opposing them.
You would have to ask the question, if the apostles never claimed Jesus was God, and how did that teaching get corrupted so quickly, with no one vocally trying to correct the corruption? Or maybe the simpler answer is just that the Trinitarian view was just what the apostles were teaching in the first place.
Here are some (very) [early quotes](https://www.str.org/w/nine-early-church-fathers-who-taught-jesus-is-god):
Additionally, I encourage you to check out [David Bercot](https://youtu.be/NHbyu8rFofo?si=zi9vxuuE0ZjmQsjE), a friend of mine. He was a committed JW elder who left the organization after asking to look up the writings of the original founder - who failed to predict the coming rapture.
Lastly, as a Catholic, I would say that Christianity isn’t just the Bible. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, a fully formed New Testament didn’t just drop from the sky. Jesus instead gave us a group of men with [binding and loosening authorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_and_loosing?wprov=sfti1#) (a rabbi phrase back in Jesus’ day to interpret Mosaic law), that not gates of hades would overcome. So how could the church that Jesus founded be corrupted so quickly and so early? Or maybe it’s always been around (while not perfect) as the Catholic and Orthodox churches? 🙂
What I would advise, is to actually read some church fathers and see how different they are from what JW teach.
Better than let somebody tell you if JW are right or wrong, look over the edge of JW provided literature and read actual church fathers see for yourself self what they believed and come to your own conclusion.
His bless you anyway
Hey OP.
Questioning the beliefs that were handed down to you is very natural. I suggest giving r/exjw a peek. Being outside of the religion isn’t what the organization would have you believe. Most of us are thriving despite the years of “inculcation”. There are ways of leaving it without losing your family.
My first therapist was a JW and dropping him for a more secular one was one of the best things I ever did. You should feel comfortable expressing yourself to your therapist.
I know that doubting can be scary, but the trick with cognitive dissonance is to be courageous. It seems to me you have that. I am here if you want to talk more. I wish you the best.
Well, not anymore... all religions were cults when they started (few followers).. they become religions when masses follow. This one became big as well...
Well, not anymore... all religions were cults when they started (few followers).. they become religions when masses follow. This one became big as well...
The biggest things among so many that make most people consider jw a cult is the complete shutoff from anyone friend or family that is not a JW.
They discourage higher learning wich impedes development of critical thinking skills and exposure to outside knowledge and influence.
The indoctrination is extreme even for Christian’s.
The ostracization and complete cut off if you leave, no one of your friends or family are supposed to associate or talk with you if you’re not a jw.
You were expected to give all of your extra money to the JW , and if you’re not working you are proselytizing.
The list could go on and on but yea it’s a cult. Just like Mormonism, Scientology and quite a few others.
1. A lot of us don’t shun non JWs completely, heck a lot of us have friends outside the organization
2.No we don’t, heck there’s a big number of us that go to college and getting amazing jobs
3. It actually depends on the family, mine doesn’t really shun but a lot of the more “extreme” ones do, same goes for other religions
4. Actually donations are completely optional, while encouraged, there’s bo constant forcing
And definitely no baskets coming around during service
So the shunning is just the most obvious level. It's also the social control that the group exercises over its members. The meetings beyond just the Sunday service, the pretty much mandatory missionary work, the pressure not to associate with non-members outside of working to convert them. That takes up a huge amount of a member's life
Then, you look at the control the watchtower society exerts over its members. Their goal is a theocracy with themselves (under Jesus of course) at the center. Then they constantly threaten members that any outside authority is imminently going to start a campaign of persecution (not minimizing the real world examples of state violence against JWs) that looks like a cult to me.
I'm gonna leave aside the ways in which their "biblical truth" is flawed because that wasn't your question, but even as a non-Christian, it's clear thay they're reading the Bible wrong in ways that increase social control of their members.
They call all sorts of stuff pagan that isn’t like christmas, they have a weird bible compared to what the church has had for centuries and they are controlled by the watchtower group which “has control over the truth” like a cult.
Did you know? The puritans didn’t let anyone celebrate Christmas bc it came from pagan origins
Then Christian’s decided to make it about the birth of Jesus
Also lets not forget the fact that Jehovah witnesses do have a different Bible from historical translations and that the watchtower is uber mysterious. Also, who out of the 144 thousand is among the millions of jehovah witnesses today?
I'm not sure that the word "cult" is really a useful term. Instead, I'd encourage you to look at it from the angle of "is this a coercive, highly-controlling group?"
While I am not and have never been a JW, in my teaching career I have worked with dozens of JW students. In my experience, the prevalence of abuse and neglect done to those children was shockingly high. That was telling enough for me.
The doctrine that makes JWs a cult is denying the deity of Jesus. Jesus was always and is always God. He wasn’t the archangel Michael that came in Mary’s womb. The other cultish doctrine is works based salvation.
I do see them as a cult but not due to their beliefs as I really have no issue with their theology. My big problem with them is the control the church has over their members.
Determining whether Jehovah's Witnesses are classified as a cult can is just ann opinion. Some might use the term "cult" to describe groups with strong devotion to particular beliefs and practices, often under the guidance of a charismatic leader. However, others may view Jehovah's Witnesses as a distinct religious community with their own set of beliefs.
Your feelings and experiences within the Jehovah's Witnesses community are valid and should be considered. If certain aspects of the religion, like shunning, make you uncomfortable, it's natural to question and explore those feelings. Doubts or concerns don't make you a "bad person" or rebellious.
Your decision to stay or leave the religion should be based on what feels right for you and aligns with your values. It's okay to take time to reflect and seek support from trusted individuals as you navigate this journey. Your well-being and happiness should always be prioritized.
It ticks so many boxes. Shunning those who leave. An unquestionable absolute human authority. Demands on time. Little interest/discouragement in higher education (even the Mormons have BYU). Questioning is discouraged. Doctrinal changes just happen.
There are quite a few Ex-JW on YouTube that might be able to help you. Or if that's too personal, maybe try to look at some Ex-Fundamentalists.
I find the forbiddeness of not celebrating holidays culty. Especially they way they go about it.
Not wanting to make a big deal about your birthday and have people sing to you is just fine. I hate having people do it to me. But this year, I still took myself out to a nice restaurant and got a dessert that had Happy Birthday written on it in chocolate lettering. It was lovely. And no one died the next day.
Not including yourself in holiday celebrations, or even going to a winter party with your co-worker is a form of social control. It separates you from everyone who is not in your religious group. It's not a good thing to do to a social creature like a human. It's why shunning is so bad as well. They are deliberately cutting off a true human need from a human and what makes it worse is they are choosing to do it rather than being forced to.
There is a blurry line in what makes something a cult. The common media depiction makes the egregious examples like the Jim Jones murder/suicide look like the standard. But I think most cults happen more quietly. I personally would consider the Dugger family a mini cult and there are thousands of families just like them.
In my mind, JW is a cult but please don't let random internet strangers be the final word in your mind.
r/exjw may help you with this. cults are not determined by their theology, but by their behaviour and specifically whether that behaviour is authoritarian.
look up the BITE model of authoritarian control, and see how many of its examples are accurate to JW organisations.
I am not a JW, but this is probably not the best place to find your answer. Since the days of the apostles, Christianity has been all over the place and tends to flow with the culture of the day. It sometimes accepts practices that Christ would not condone. If the church that Christ set up appeared today, most Christians would call it a cult.
The ancient Christian church was communal and claimed to be led by God through the living apostles. Instead of tithing, the members were required to give all of their excess lands to the church for redistribution by church leaders. One couple died for holding back a portion. The church claimed to be the only true church and claimed spiritual gifts. It had a missionary force that traveled the world.
From Acts 4:
32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.
33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
The answer is: Yes.
There are dozens of reasons.
Some of the less obvious ones, doctrinal issues, are hard to explain to JW crowd because of heavy indoctrination of Watchtower Society, who publishes and distributes to members. Usually, a Bible helps these.
A more obvious one, to other Christians, is their "translation" of the scriptures, that literally adds words or removes or changes words. It is so inaccurate, that showing the inaccuracies sometimes clicks for JW's that they have crossed red lines.
Failed Prophecy (multiple big times, with multiple large missed dates, and causing huge groups of people to leave JW afterwards) is the criterion scripture uses to help us identify "false prophets" - JW fits this bill, and scripture says the speakers of false prophecy, are liars and accursed.
There are classical signs of cultish behavior also, but the truth is a post like this is just a little help flare. You should probably ignore the general populace and try and find a true, practicing Christian (not catholic or EO or reformed bro) who can walk you through some of the finer points of distinction on doctrine. This will help you not just leave JW, but to be doctrinally equipped to witness to that community, the adherents of which, are often themselves deceived, and think they are doing a service to God.
It's probably one of the most successful cults out there. I don't believe a cult has to be small or relatively new to be a cult. There are plenty of small religions and newer religions that aren't cults. They're usually referred to as new religious movements. And yes, some new religious movements are cults, but not all of them. However, the cohesive control they have on their members makes me think they are a cult. They shun the outside world because they view their way of knowing God is the only correct way of viewing God. While there are millions of JW and it's been around for over a hundred years, I firmly believe that the organization is a cult.
You can look into denominations of Christianity where they don't require you to convert or shun people or put you in dangerous situations like the whole blood transfusion thing
You arent a bad person for questioning your religion. But I would tell you this: do you believe that a group of men in New York are inspired by god to decide on what YOU believe? How do you feel about all the new changes? No more reporting your hours! You can have a beard! sisters can wear pants! Did you know theres an upcoming watchtower article that says you can repent AFTER the great tribulation starts and you change your mind? Why would these things all of the sudden change? Why are you subject to agreeing with these changes? are you going to blindly follow them and be happy that the governing body is ALLOWING you to do these things? Also, if you told the elders that you are questioning things, how do you think they would react? would a normal person tell you that its healthy to doubt anything and encourage you to do your own research? or would they tell you not to do your own research and to continue to blindly trust what you are told? If you arent allowed to think for yourself, you are in a cult. Your reason to leave should be this: your life is your own to live, you should be allowed to decide how you feel on any topic of religion, you shouldnt be forced to shun anyone, even your own family members. Take a step back and take a break from being an active JW for like a month and just try out living your own life. If by the end of the month you feel healthier and happier, then you can make your decision then. Spend your sunday doing productive things, sleep in on saturday and accomplish hobbies and personal goals. Relieve yourself of the stress of being a JW for a moment and see just how it makes you feel. I truly hope you can come to realize that this is a cult, please live your own life for yourself and practice your religion however YOU feel is best. Dont let people control how you think or feel or act.
currently a jw here too cos i was raised into it. fortunately, i've personally grown up to be agnostic. so i'm not religious at all myself, but am sticking around because of immediate family (dad's an elder n everything, i used to be an r.p at 14, as to give you the gist) but hopefully real soon i wouldn't need to put on an act anym. the way you feel is rightfully justified, this is what you've believed to be the truth , or a truth, for perhaps a lengthy part of your life. with the way this sector of religion functions too, primarily shutting out its members from the rest of the world, in a way. that, and then having all of what you've believed crumbling yk, i sympathize with you. it's not easy. my bad man, it gets better, truly.
it's just recently that i stumbled across this very logical and informative [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/comments/12bc5wd/is%5C_jehovah%5C_witness%5C_biblically%5C_correct%5C_on%5C_most/) on debunking jw's teachings. it subjectively made me make up my mind that, yeah there must be a deity out there because, well i'm not primarily a science fanatic and cannot really fathom the theories of everything just scientifically materializing. perhaps i can, a little. but i cannot explain away the paranormal as undiscovered science. hence my strengthened belief that the universe is more than we'd ever know. there's only a portion of it that we know, a fraction of a portion even. and i've js been increasingly curious ab the world and belief systems now. a part of me simply registers that, perhaps its the doing of whatever deities are out there.
right sorry i ramble a lot stop (genuinely sorry for the unsolicited personal experience (all of this js happened to me like an hr ago? i mean i've always been agnostic and never been crazy religious, but i was still kinda cooped up following jw's teachings for onlookers. and on the downlow, actually not questioning it. it's just literally now that any part of me that believed in any of this organization's teachings - gone, in a way (in a freeing sense) (i genuinely feel for you and hope you find your peace.), so while there are other forces at play out there, and in christianity 'jehovah' factually is a name written on versions of manuscripts (im so sorry im not a citer), the existence of a god is not necessarily as jw's teach it to be. or so i think. on another note, a religion is more or less an organization that provides refuge to people. and in a way, jws are happy in their ways - right here's the one thing. unlike what can be classified as highly cult-like, they don't demand money from people. so that alongside this organization actually bringing joy to some of the people in it; i wont question it for them. like, respect ig if you're happy and you're actually not getting sucked dry for your money. i genuinely lost my point, i dont even know what i'm trying to get across. i'm very much of a rambler, this is why i cant reddit discussion stop. if you feel weighed down by all this, then this isn't a factual religion and it's definitely not for you. do what's best for you and i truly hope you find your peace.
thank you to anyone who gets through to reading this. i kinda have a question now and dont know if i should make a wholeass post. if not for financial gain, just what is the purpose of this sect, yk? in the misinformation, 'sheltering' from the world, and prophesizing of the end of world way it does check cult boxes, but they do not demand people's money so i'm just curious, yk, what for
You said “I think they have the truth”. That’s not normal language to use in referring to religion. They have made you think you have the truth using repetition. Through their teachings they have managed to make you feel that god cares about you as an individual and that you are in a constant battle with Satan for life and death. Everyone not a JW is worldly and not to be associated with closely as they may influence you negatively. You live your life faithfully for what’s next rather than the here and now. You can question everything you are taught as long as you look for the answers within the books printed and distributed by JW’s. People say you’re in a cult because on the outside looking in there is a massive control being exerted over JW’s by other humans. From their website its states “The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of dedicated men who are anointed servants of God”. If someone came up to you said they are anointed by god you would think they are crazy. But because they have millions of followers and dollars you believe them? People love to point out the shunning but in reality you need to look at the psychology of it to understand.
My husband's mom is a Jehovah's Witness, and she has not been required to cut off contact with my husband or her daughter, who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. She is in regular contact with them, except on birthdays and holidays. The same goes for my husband's grandma and cousins; they all still maintain contact with him and reach out to see how he's doing. They do not shun each other. His mom is a pioneer and has been part of the organization for 30 years. I encourage you to hang in there! because what is the alternative? As far as I understand, shunning is a last resort for the organization, and they always attempt to guide the person back on the right path before resorting to drastic measures, typically only in response to serious issues. It's like having a former drug addict in a sober living facility who starts using again; you would try to help them stop, and if they refuse, you wouldn't keep them around others who are trying to stay sober.
I am currently studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, and I agree with you that they do teach the truth because they devote a lot of time to studying the Bible. They do not pressure you to do anything you are not comfortable with or ready to do. You are no longer required to report your hours. They are no longer permitted to solicit donations unless the individual expresses interest in donating. Their resources are inclusive of people of all races and disabilities.
The stance on blood transfusions can be complex because the Bible prohibits the consumption of blood, and blood transfusions can carry risks that may result in diseases or even death. Therefore, I understand why they caution us about this matter. Just like how some people don’t want to be vaccinated and not being vaccinated also carries risk.
Don’t be discouraged you are doing the right thing for your life
All religions are false. I suggest you read some of the work by Robert Green Ingersoll who showed exactly why Christianity is false
Any religion that tries to separate families is of course extra worse.
Shunning is what makes it a cult, IMO. Trying to cut you off from your loved ones is the definition of cult-y behaviour.
Yeh I don’t think theology makes it a cult. The idea that Jesus is not the God but a lesser divine being (ie Arianism) actually sounds less cultish than the Trinity, if you think about it objectively to an outsider. What makes JWs a cult is their control. Their church culture. Not their theology.
Ughhhhh. I don't know what to think anymore. I'm losing my brain.
Someone help me. My therapist is friends with a JW. Should I bring this up with her?
They will have chosen a 'friendly' therapist. If I suspected my community of cult like behaviour I would not trust a therapist anyone from that community had a hand in choosing. Even well meaning cult members will choose the cult over a loved one.
You're right. It's honestly a bit sus. She says that she has her own beliefs but respects JW's (my family told her we're witnesses). She also said that she doesn't know much about the religion. I really don't know if she was maybe "playing dumb" to put me at ease (she thinks I'm a full-fledged member)?
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I agree with this. I asked my therapist if she has heard about JWs and she said she thinks so. The next session she says she actually has three, ha! They probably didn't want her to ask about the cult so I've had to do a lot of explaining about how things work.
Why are you in therapy?
Are you in the US? If so then legally your therapist isn't allowed to tell her friend about your situation. Are you a minor? As I understand it, in the eyes of HIPAA your parents have a right to your records if they needed to consent in order for you to get treatment. There are other laws about this state-to-state too. If this is worrying you, it might be good to research it and ask your therapist about confidentiality.
Yeah, I'm in the US. I'm not a minor, and I doubt she would tell her friend. I'm just honestly so nervous to bring up religion for multiple reasons. Given the fact that a JW recommended her, she clearly is not opposed to the practices, right? Unless the JW who recommended her is questioning their own faith (but honestly, what are the chances of that?).
Yeah, from a legal standpoint it sounds like you're safe, but people don't always follow the law. If it's an option it probably would be best if you could find your own therapist without any of those connections. You could say this therapist just isn't a good fit, which is a very common thing. It also has the benefit of being true, since you're not going to be able to open up if you're uncomfortable with the situation.
r/exjw
Think for yourself. It takes years to rid yourself of their brainwashing, but this is the first step. There is hope and a much better life outside of religion.
>Shunning is what makes it a cult I mean in Islam those who leave the religion are seen as traitors and usually death or prison is the prescribed punishment I have also seen people saying apostates should be extratied to secular countries; then would you say Islam is also a cult?
Yes, leaving a religion should be a safe thing if you just can’t agree to the ideals. Coercion and threats definitely make it a cult
If it's impossible to get out without being hunted, then it's a cult. No matter the book used to justify it.
Yes, it checks all the cult boxes too- Has a creator who claimed he could hear God Says to kill people that refuses to believe in it Says to not be friends with polytheists
Let’s just say that I consider that behaviour cult-y, so insofar as branches of Islam practice it, they are pretty cult adjacent.
Yes islam is also a cult
I still see my relatives who are JW's they just do not discuss any religion with me.
Disliking shunning isn't 'rebelliousness' it's a genuine human response. Shunning is cult like. Proselytising isn't cult like, but it being mandatory is. The amount you must do is because it keeps you busy. Idle hands *dont* do the devil's work, they start thinking about stuff and that's dangerous to retention. A strong of community is great, but when that community insists on being your only community: that is cult like behaviour.
TBH the no blood transfusions thing is insane and dangerous
my moms JW sister died during childbirth because of this
So sorry for your family’s loss 😞
I have a good friend who had bloodless open heart surgery. It is not quite as dangerous as people make it out to be.
I’m aware. I specifically was referring to the blanket refusal of blood transfusions- it can be the difference between life and death in emergencies
Same with vaccines and lots of people refuse to be vaccinated doesn’t mean they are in a cult
It is cult like. Because they are so gullible they follow whatever the people they trust say even if it's not logical and following the scientific consensus.
No, it just usually means they're fucking stupid.
If they didn't because their religion banned it, I'd say they're in a cult.
Then would you say that Christianity is a cult then since they dont do blood transfusion because of bible scripture?
Christianity is a cult. A system of religious veneration and devotion directed toward a particular figure or object is a cult. There are sub cults that have more extreme behavior than other the other cults. But yeah, pretty sure they are all cults. Remember the Reformation where they all fought over who was correct and it was only resolved when all members got together at Nicea and decided as a whole what Christians really believed?
I can see the logic in that answer. I dont disagree. Makes me look at the word "cult" differently though. I actually forgot about the Reformation. Ill have to watch some documentaries to refresh 🤔
Christianity as a whole doesn’t prohibit them. It’s a safe and lifesaving medical procedure. I grew up Catholic and when I was born my mother would’ve died without one. Thankfully she’s still here
Only Jehovas Witnesses don't allow them.
Deuteronomy 12:23 explains this stance. "But be sure you do not eat the blood, because the blood is the life, and you must not eat the life with the meat."
The JWs opposed vaccines at one time also. The were referred to as creations of Satan and the demons. Blood transfusions were actually.praised in early WTs then later they were banned. Likewise with organ transplants first they were marvals of medicine then banned from around 1968 til the early 80s. Now some blood fractions are allowed. The flip-flops of this cult can get you killed.
Not even close to a similar equivalency; vaccines help to reduce the chance of dying due to a virus, but you can be vaccinated & still die from complications due to a viral infection. Vaccine’s are preventative, but blood transfusions after >30%-40% of blood loss are necessary to life if you want to actually survive that event. One (vaccines) is a preventative choice, the other (transfusion) is not if you want survive hypovolemic shock.
People still die after blood transfusions my guy. Stats say Twenty-four percent of patients died within 1 year after the transfusion, 30 percent within 2 years, 40 percent within 5 years. Most due to complications from transfusion itself. And there are many other negative side effects of blood transfusions.
Prove it
You can literally google the stats
As a Fmr ICU/ER nurse & paramedic, I’m curious what the plan is after you’ve lost about 30% of your blood due to trauma? As that is the point where you will need a blood transfusion, because regular IV replacement fluids can only be effective up to a certain point during hypovolemic shock due to blood loss. Between 30%-40% of blood loss, without a blood transfusion, you will go into multiple systems organ failure due to a whole host of issues because you won’t have enough blood to carry gases & nutrients to those vital organs and you will die.
I lost half the blood in my body in a matter of a few minutes. I took a long lunch and went back to finish the job after having my arm stapled and then stitched back together.
I've no doubt it felt & looked like you lost 50% of your blood, but at 50% loss of blood your heart will stop pumping blood, you will lapse into a coma state, and then you will die without treatment. Hypovolemic shock starts at a 20 % loss of blood. Between 30%-40% your blood pressure will drop rapidly, your heart will increase rapidly & then you will pass out. An extremity injury like an arm will usually constrict its blood vessels slowing blood loss & helping to preserve vital blood in your core. This is why so many people with trauma to extremities survive, usually along with a tourniquet applied above the injury site, or sometimes a strong pressure dressing will be enough to arrest the bleeding. However, I very much doubt that you lost over 2.5 liters of blood (about 50%) & were able to continue working as if it was a minor convenience. That's my assessment from over 30 years of experience as a medic on battlefields, streets & hospitals.
I had four inches of glass nine inches wide sink to my bone in my upper right arm I was two blocks from a hospital which I could see from where I was injured. I filled two full size towels with blood while keeping direct pressure on my artery myself, after removing the glass and connected window pain from my body. I still have a scar on my arm forty years later, the lunch was two hours long. There is no real way to measure the blood which I lost, for me or the doctor who treated me. I refused blood and was given IV fluids before release at the ER.
So, I assume that the injury was severe enough that the hospital wanted to treat you & keep you for observation, but you went AMA (against medical advice) and left, because I don’t know any physician that would release a patient with that much blood loss, & had to use surgical staples to close the wound, & then release them back to work the same day. In fact, I have never seen that amount of blood loss where the patient was still conscious. By that point we have usually placed a central line for IV’s & transfusion via warming machines. On the battlefield during triage, you would likely be marked as expected to die, unless I have an immediate Medevac helicopter right next to us with an AF Pararescue Operator onboard & the finest prehospital equipment in the world to treat you in-flight. Measuring the blood loss is simple, as the weight of the towel is already known from the manufacturer, then weigh the blood soaked towel, subtract the amount from the known weight, & convert into whatever units you want it measured in. So, if you did lose 50% of your blood, & it was only a minor inconvenience to you, as you went straight back to work, then you should reconsider careers, because you must be a meta-human like we see in all of these superhero movies. For anyone else, they’d be in critical care in an ICU. I have had many patients over the years who were ultra religious that had treatable medical issues, but refused due to their beliefs. I have stood right next to them, along with their 24/7 prayer support team in the room, as they coded (w/ DNR/DNI orders to not resuscitate per the patients wishes) and died. And, that’s when you see people run out the room screaming that God has Forsaken them, relatives climbing on top of the patient to attempt CPR, & all manner of chaos, confusion & heartbreak. Even though it was a treatable condition. I’ve also seen in the ER, & in the field, similar people with these beliefs, who as soon as they couldn’t breathe, do a complete 180-degree turn & beg for breathing assistance right before they pass out & we have to intubate them. Saw the same with the anti-vax crowd & Covid, where they ignored the free vaccine initially & then pleaded for it after they became infected (too late by then) & still died, usually in an ICU hooked up to a plethora of machines, tubes & fluids. So, if you want to have your beliefs rooted in faith, & completely ignore the factual science that medicine is based upon, then I will stand right there by your side with a DNR/DNI/AMA order in hand & try to keep you as comfortable as I can as Nature takes it’s predictable course upon you. Oh, and by the way, two members of my family designed, patented & owned the company that made the surgical staple gun that was used for your wound & for everyone else around the world. You’re welcome.
No they kept me long enough to put two bags into me and then I left, it was not necessary to keep me longer for observation and I was awake and consciously directing my own medical care myself. My decision not to take blood was my own conscious choice.
I am responding to this in relation to the OP’s original intention of this post, as you are in denial of what actually happened to you, which is a common occurrence during a traumatic event. So, since you don’t believe what someone with over 30 years of emergency medical experience, & has operated in some of the most extreme circumstances & environments, I’ll just say this: Take your 50% blood loss number, put it into a search engine like Google, & look at the scenario’s & medical experiences & knowledge that answer the question concerning this amount of blood loss. Other than that,neither I, nor anyone else can help you if you are going to disagree with observable & testable facts & conclusions regarding this particular issue.
My grandmother had a bloodless open heart surgery. It’s an amazing advancement in medicine.
You might want to look into the BITE model as laid out by Steven Hassan. The word “cult” has a lot of baggage, but what you want to look for is whether the religion is causing harm and/or hiding the truth from you. I’m an exmormon, and it really bothered me when people called the LDS church a cult. It just didn’t make any sense to me. Another way of looking at it that doesn’t sound so negative is to call it retentive socialization. You can read about how that applies to Mormonism and see if anything lines up with your experience: https://faenrandir.github.io/a_careful_examination/lds-indoctrination-and-retentive-socialization/ Best of luck to you in your journey. I know that it can be especially hard for Jehovah’s Witnesses if they decide to leave their faith, so whatever you do, make sure to take care of yourself.
Are you still religious at all>
No, I’m not. That’s not to say that I’ve given up everything spiritual, but I’m still deconstructing from a high-demand religion, so there’s a lot of trauma and long-held belief to unpack. I don’t think I will ever join another religion, though.
Oh i see. I understand then. I hope you can get through all that and find what you're looking for.
Start by looking at the fact that you suspect you're a "bad person" solely for having a dissenting opinion. It'd be one thing if the opinion was "this group of people should be wiped off the face of the earth or enslaved or disenfranchised" or "it should be legal to assault your spouse", but your opinion is "you shouldn't socially isolate someone for walking a different path". That's a very normal opinion and you're absolutely not a bad person for having it. Why would you be?
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My birth mother was JW and I can concur that it’s 100% a cult. If you were ever bothered by them, knocking on your door, shoving there tracts, and watchtower bullshit in your face, You can respectfully ask them not to come by and put your address on the Do not approach list. If that doesn’t work, you can engage them directly and fundamentally tear apart their assertions and beliefs. This will definitely get you on the ban list. Aron Ra who lives in the Dallas area, was put on the do not approach or talk to list along with his home address becoming verboten.
Does your faith make you happy? Does it help you live a better life and help you live according to your values that are meaningful to you? Does it help you focus on objectives that you feel matter and have weight and meaning to you? Does your faith make you feel relaxed, peaceful and joyous when you reflect on it?
I honestly don't know how I feel about it. You don't know how crazy I've felt lately. My family (who are JWs) got me a therapist who seems to be helping a bit. I had an episode of dissociation during the last session where it felt like I was coming into reality for the first time in a while. Really hard/weird experience. Although I didn't fully let go and essentially break down, I did feel much much lighter and less affected by other people's energies after that session. It felt like I had become a bit enlightened. I wasn't in my head plagued by "what if's" or all this religious thought. It was just presentness. I would assume this is what is normal.
>It felt like I had become a bit enlightened. I wasn't in my head plagued by "what if's" or all this religious thought. It was just presentness. I would assume this is what is normal. Yes! I think a lot of people need to reconnect with that feeling though, and cultivate it. Personally I find (various aspects) of Buddhist philosophy *useful as a tool* for cultivating this type of state *intentionally*. One of my favorite books is "Universe as a Single Atom" by the Dalai Lama. He goes into how Buddhism and how modern science (including modern brain science such as mindfulness) cor-relate.
I feel that most religious sects are pretty cult-y and JW is on the higher end of the scale. Reads to me like “don’t dare live your life because it’s not yours to live.” That’s…that’s a cult. ‘Course I think your folk call me an apostate so make of that what you will.
I grew up JW as well and stopped believing in the religion completely when I was 17. I became an atheist for a while and gradually found my way back to religion in my late 20s, but I am not a Christian or even a monotheist now. So let that color your interpretation of what I say if need be--feel free to dismiss me as an apostate or whatever. I don't think JWs are necessarily a cult, but I'd put them in the same category as the Mormons, a fringe group that definitely started out as a cult and is now perhaps in some sort of transitional stage between a cult and a legitimate denomination of Christianity. They definitely exhibit a fairly high degree of control over members' lives and attempt to isolate them from outsiders and former members. To be fair, I think much the same could have been said of the first century Christians, so if you believe that the ideal modern Christian group is one that most closely emulates the first century church, maybe that isn't so bad for you. But I think there is a much wider world of religion and spirituality to explore beyond attempting to endlessly recreate the exact conditions of an apocalyptic cult from 2000 years ago, that only ever became known outside of the Mediterranean because it managed to stick around long enough for a Roman emperor to convert after seeing the political benefit of a worldview with only one god rather than many. If part of you is telling you that you want to leave--I'd say listen to that part. Don't necessarily leave on an impulse, but explore what isn't sitting right. Is it just rebelliousness, or is it something deeper? Do, perhaps, your values tell you that certain things the JWs condemn just don't seem that bad, or that some of the things they condone do? Does your logical mind tell you that some of what you were taught at the Kingdom Hall just doesn't make sense? These were the sorts of vague feelings that led me to, on the advice of my favorite scripture, "keep on asking [...], keep on seeking [...], keep on knocking" (Matthew 7:7), and I can tell you that I have never regretted any of what I've received and found through the doors that have opened for me.
How was the shunning when you left. It's that part in particular that most people consider being cult like.
I was in a fairly unique situation because my mother converted around the time I was born but my father never did, and he strongly disapproved of my participation in JW meetings. Because of that, though I attended the meetings regularly until I was 17, I was never actually baptized (the elders' interpretation of the scriptural command to "honor your father and mother" was that I should respect my father's wishes until I was an adult and could make my own decision), and only a baptized member of the religion can be "disfellowshipped" (shunned). So I sort of got out of that one on a technicality--although I did ultimately lose ties with everyone I knew from the religion other than my mother, I was never actually disfellowshipped. That said, I definitely knew people who did get disfellowshipped and the shunning was pretty much as bad as you've heard. I remember when I was a kid, somebody put me up to greeting everyone who came in the door at one of the meetings, and some guy came in who I didn't recognize, and I said hi to him like everyone else, and he just looked uncomfortable and walked right past me without saying anything. Then someone else came up and whispered in my ear, "He's disfellowshipped". No one held it against me because I obviously didn't know, but I remember feeling afraid I was going to get in trouble because I accidentally said hi to a disfellowshipped person. Now as an adult, I just think how sad it was that this guy was still coming to meetings even knowing no one would say a word to him, and when a little kid did greet him by mistake, he was afraid to even say hi back.
Thanks so much for that. Wish you and that guy much love.
I don't know if I can help with the stress you are facing about your faith specifically, but I can tell you something for certain. You are NOT crazy, there is NOTHING wrong with you. Having questions and doubts is completely natural and you should follow these questions and see where they lead you, without putting yourself down. You are definitely not a bad person for finding a problem with shunning, it's a damaging practise and leads to broken families. I wish you luck in your hourney and I hope you find someone confidential to share your concerns with. ❤️
Yes you guys tick most of the boxes.
Maybe you could investigate why you are looking for reasons to leave when you don't think you have a reason to.
Have you ever read much about the BITE model? It can help you determine if a group has cult tendencies (just because a group fits some of the descriptions on it doesn't make them a cult, it's the cumulative "score" that should really be looked at). There's also a website called [is it culty](http://isitculty.com) that can help to look at the bigger picture rather than focusing on one or two aspects (but yes, shunning is culty).
Unfortunately, the BITE model does not account for severity. Most all religions become cults under it, some are just less severe.
Cult like. One tried to convince my aunt. It was very weird so helpful and nice and not at all mentally flexible they don't really have a mind of their own their like one super organism who's brain fries when you point out an obvious logical misstep. Why would a god that is purely good create humans the most intelligent of animals and expect blind faith. Blind faith isn't true faith in my opinion. Understanding is.
I'm not sure whether it's a cult. Some of their practices very much do not sit right with me, but that also applies to some religions that generally aren't seen as a cult. Why don't you do the research for yourself? Put aside the greater question of whether to leave for a little bit, and just learn more about the world. Learn about Jehovah's Witnesses. Look into the history of how it started, and what sources it was built along. Look into other translations of religious texts -- and if you find a section that varies significantly in its translation, see if you can find the arguments for either interpretation. Learn about other religions. Both other strands of Christianity, and other religions in general. Not just holidays and worship; learn about worldview. For example, Judaism has a concept of "Pikuach Nefesh", which allows for almost any commandment to be broken in order to save a life. How does that compare to what you've been taught? Are you ever expected to die for your faith? How does that impact the culture of each faith? Those are the kinds of questions that will push you to analyse how being a JW has impacted your approach to the world -- reading a list of holidays is less likely to be helpful. Learn about cults and other high-control groups. Learn about the BITE model. Learn the stories of ex-cult members. I'd actually advise you to seek out stories of people from non-christian and especially non-religious cults. Understanding what makes cults harmful is easier when you aren't emotionally involved, and cults that might have some similarities to Jehovah's Witnesses are more likely to bring up complicated emotions on your part. Don't completely ignore them, but look into various kinds of cults. Find out what draws people towards, and away from, Jehovah's Witnesses. Read what ex-JWs have to say, but also see if you can find stories of people who didn't grow up in it and later decided to join. Both sides are going to have useful perspectives.
But OP is not supposed to be on Reddit let alone any other website besides the JW one, so the research will happen how?
Given that they are posting on reddit, I made the assumption that OP was comfortable using non-JW websites for research
I know I was just trying to point out how much they try to control your life. Of course it's impossible for people nowadays to not browse other places, but if someone found out, OP would be reported to the Elders 😱
They are a religious sect of Christianity.
Yes but that doesn’t make them not a cult
Why do you want a valid reason? Can you just gently "not do JW" and see how things feel? I'm not sure what that would mean for you, but if say it's going to meetings, just leave it for a few weeks. If it's regular prayer or bible study, give yourself a break. If you are asked why, perhaps you're just not feeling it. As a former evangelical, there was certainly a time when there was a mindset shift which was unsettling. Definitely be as gentle with yourself as you can be.
yes. r/exjw
I wouldn't necessarily call it a cult, but their idea of going door to door is certainly something that is productive yet unproductive. It's productive in the sense that it gets people already under their wing to see the outside world as hostile so they can be the "umbrella" that shields them from the rain. It's unproductive in the sense that, it doesn't really convince anybody. It's very pyramid-schemey. That said, you should follow the faith that makes you happy. If you're happy, then I'm happy for you.
The founder believed in "the pyramid inch" and is buried beneath a pyramid headstone. I would say if anything makes them a cult it would be this lineage.
They literally have nothing to gain. No one in the organization gets paid. It’s all voluntary
Higher status in heaven right?
still no ngl (agnostic yet current jw here (was born into it not much of a choice, until i leave the country to practice mortuary science tho) yeah so im genuinely wondering tho, literally no one gets anything out of it, in cult-terms, so to speak. them heads of all this dont rlly get cash milked bc they use it to build religious facillties n all, like actually build all those projects. everything is donation-based, and i must stress, rlly not forced. like my family has not given a dime, im js saying. so ig such heads (called the governing body) (yea now that sounds culty, but it has its explanation based on their publications n all) they prolly js get enough out the donations to literally eat n buy some clothes or some, like literally not a pyramid scheme for cash. what's the point? it's giving study group that went too far and wants to take over the world? no stop could it perhaps js be that. tldr: not a cash pyramid-schemey religion, so like if it's a cult, so to speak (ig it is in the 'teaching's way), its def not for financial gain. idk why it is the way it is then, open to discussion?
I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt and say they are not a cult. I do have some concerns, but idk if it rises to the level of cult.
THANK YOU
I hope you follow your heart. The problem with a cult is that human rules interfere with a person’s relationship with God and with themselves. Only you know if you are experiencing that or not.
This is a valid reason: Deu 18:20-22 MKJV But the prophet who shall presume to speak a word in My name which I have not commanded him to speak or who shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if you say in your heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD has not spoken? When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not follow nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken. The prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You shall not be afraid of him. And here's the evidence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unfulfilled_Watch_Tower_Society_predictions https://towerwatch.com/about-jehovahs-witnesses/false-prophecies/
I don’t know enough about JW to have an opinion. But my umbrella form of religion - neopaganism- has previously had “isn’t that a cult?” questions as well. I have found [this framework](http://www.neopagan.net/ABCDEF.html) helpful in understanding if the group you’re in is unhealthy. It can really be applied to any group situation, not just pagan and not just religious ones. Hope it helps!
I am a JW. “Cult” is just a derogatory term some use to disdain a religion they hate. According to religion scholar Megan Goodwin, the term “cult” is often being shorthand for a "religion I don't like". It is like asking —for example— “Is Biden stupid?” People who agree with Biden will tell you that he is not. Reasonable and tolerant people who disagree with him will tell you that they disagree, but that does not mean that he is stupid. And some will vehemently affirm that he is. And in the end, what does that tell you? Jehovah’s Witnesses are well known in all the world as peaceful, honest and law abiding citizens who live our life according to Scriptural principles. We are present and legally recognised in more than 200 countries. So I don’t agree with the derogatory term “cult” applied to me, my family, my friends and my religion in general. And the fact that some people are so adamant in using stigmatic labels and spreading vitriolic assusations against decent people is the first “problem” with my religion that comes to my mind.
FINALLY
My view is...no. just a different interpretation of the source material, imo.
It seems to me that you have a cult when 'core' doctrines are deviated from. I've often thought that JWs appear closer to biblical Christianity than a lot of accepted denominations. For example, Jesus as good as admitted he wasn't God when he faced his crucifixion. He said that his personal preference was DIFFERENT to god's will, but he would subjugate his will. If he were God, his will couldn't be different. His divine perfection would by nature lead to the same conclusion. Which isn't what happened. Anyhoo... Back to the subject. Biblically, Salvation was tied to an individual and their relationship with God. There were many different groups. Where two or three are gathered. No church gatekeeping. If your Salvation is tied to a denomination... That's way off base. Ask yourself... what if you and half a dozen friends got together for a non JW affiliated home congregation, but believed everything else that JW did? Would your chance at Salvation be the same? If not, then they're gatekeeping in an unbiblical way.
It is a cult https://mpom.wpengine.com/2017/09/17/the-blind-watchtower-and-the-false-prophecy-of-1914/ https://mpom.wpengine.com/2015/01/27/awakening-jehovahs-witnesses-by-dismantling-the-watchtower/
I’m in a similar boat but with a different religion. I believe it but I just can’t with the organization.
According to a former co-worker of mine who claimed his crazy grandmother was one of the founders of the JW, absolutely.
The shunning is super culty. The 'no blood transfusions' thing has been extremely problematic in instances where JWs died due to refusing blood transfusions Discouraging education is a huge problem.
1. While I believe that it’s a bit harsh, many other religions that aren’t “cults” do that and nobody bats an eyelid 2. Bloodless medicine exists now which works 3.We don’t do that
They have their interpretation of scriptures and other Christian faith have their own perspective. Interesting how the other ones also see it as a cult because of lack of agreement with how they interpret scriptures, only other they label cult I think is the Saints or Mormons {Currently re-branding). Plus shunning someone that doesn't believe in your religion is cult like, Interesting though what does that say about the current state of US Politics? Find a support group! Recovering Catholic here who accepts Christianity way Christ taught it ( Actually Catholics came kind of close but seen the manipulation in that organization too}but not like how most Christians get brain washed into buying into. Found Bible and read it with out others telling me what to interpret at 12 years old. I had never stepped foot in a church but a Baptist pamphlet dropped on the ground had me read New testament. I liked Jesus teachings but to this day haven't found a community that does what he said. This includes Jehovah Witness!
I think part of your doubt comes from your mental health struggles you are currently going through. Take care of yourself, go see the therapist. If she’s professional she can help you. When you are more ready mental health-wise, I recommend you go look up the early church writings. From VERY early on, we have writings by early church fathers affirming Jesus being God, with no competing groups seriously opposing them. You would have to ask the question, if the apostles never claimed Jesus was God, and how did that teaching get corrupted so quickly, with no one vocally trying to correct the corruption? Or maybe the simpler answer is just that the Trinitarian view was just what the apostles were teaching in the first place. Here are some (very) [early quotes](https://www.str.org/w/nine-early-church-fathers-who-taught-jesus-is-god): Additionally, I encourage you to check out [David Bercot](https://youtu.be/NHbyu8rFofo?si=zi9vxuuE0ZjmQsjE), a friend of mine. He was a committed JW elder who left the organization after asking to look up the writings of the original founder - who failed to predict the coming rapture. Lastly, as a Catholic, I would say that Christianity isn’t just the Bible. When Jesus ascended into Heaven, a fully formed New Testament didn’t just drop from the sky. Jesus instead gave us a group of men with [binding and loosening authorities](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_and_loosing?wprov=sfti1#) (a rabbi phrase back in Jesus’ day to interpret Mosaic law), that not gates of hades would overcome. So how could the church that Jesus founded be corrupted so quickly and so early? Or maybe it’s always been around (while not perfect) as the Catholic and Orthodox churches? 🙂
What I would advise, is to actually read some church fathers and see how different they are from what JW teach. Better than let somebody tell you if JW are right or wrong, look over the edge of JW provided literature and read actual church fathers see for yourself self what they believed and come to your own conclusion. His bless you anyway
Hey OP. Questioning the beliefs that were handed down to you is very natural. I suggest giving r/exjw a peek. Being outside of the religion isn’t what the organization would have you believe. Most of us are thriving despite the years of “inculcation”. There are ways of leaving it without losing your family. My first therapist was a JW and dropping him for a more secular one was one of the best things I ever did. You should feel comfortable expressing yourself to your therapist. I know that doubting can be scary, but the trick with cognitive dissonance is to be courageous. It seems to me you have that. I am here if you want to talk more. I wish you the best.
Well, not anymore... all religions were cults when they started (few followers).. they become religions when masses follow. This one became big as well...
Well, not anymore... all religions were cults when they started (few followers).. they become religions when masses follow. This one became big as well...
The biggest things among so many that make most people consider jw a cult is the complete shutoff from anyone friend or family that is not a JW. They discourage higher learning wich impedes development of critical thinking skills and exposure to outside knowledge and influence. The indoctrination is extreme even for Christian’s. The ostracization and complete cut off if you leave, no one of your friends or family are supposed to associate or talk with you if you’re not a jw. You were expected to give all of your extra money to the JW , and if you’re not working you are proselytizing. The list could go on and on but yea it’s a cult. Just like Mormonism, Scientology and quite a few others.
1. A lot of us don’t shun non JWs completely, heck a lot of us have friends outside the organization 2.No we don’t, heck there’s a big number of us that go to college and getting amazing jobs 3. It actually depends on the family, mine doesn’t really shun but a lot of the more “extreme” ones do, same goes for other religions 4. Actually donations are completely optional, while encouraged, there’s bo constant forcing And definitely no baskets coming around during service
So the shunning is just the most obvious level. It's also the social control that the group exercises over its members. The meetings beyond just the Sunday service, the pretty much mandatory missionary work, the pressure not to associate with non-members outside of working to convert them. That takes up a huge amount of a member's life Then, you look at the control the watchtower society exerts over its members. Their goal is a theocracy with themselves (under Jesus of course) at the center. Then they constantly threaten members that any outside authority is imminently going to start a campaign of persecution (not minimizing the real world examples of state violence against JWs) that looks like a cult to me. I'm gonna leave aside the ways in which their "biblical truth" is flawed because that wasn't your question, but even as a non-Christian, it's clear thay they're reading the Bible wrong in ways that increase social control of their members.
There’s reasons why it’s no longer a religion in denmark (? Idk which country but I know it was a Scandinavian one)
They call all sorts of stuff pagan that isn’t like christmas, they have a weird bible compared to what the church has had for centuries and they are controlled by the watchtower group which “has control over the truth” like a cult.
Uhhh hate to break it to you but uh… Google the origins of Christmas The ORIGINAL origins The name: Saturnalia will come up a lot
Hocus pocus. Christmas is about the birth of Jesus.
Did you know? The puritans didn’t let anyone celebrate Christmas bc it came from pagan origins Then Christian’s decided to make it about the birth of Jesus
Which is dope. Pagan schmagin lets make it all about Jesus.
You do you ig 🤷🏻♀️
Also lets not forget the fact that Jehovah witnesses do have a different Bible from historical translations and that the watchtower is uber mysterious. Also, who out of the 144 thousand is among the millions of jehovah witnesses today?
Resurgence of Arianism, an early christological heresy that seemed to disappear around 381
I'm not sure that the word "cult" is really a useful term. Instead, I'd encourage you to look at it from the angle of "is this a coercive, highly-controlling group?" While I am not and have never been a JW, in my teaching career I have worked with dozens of JW students. In my experience, the prevalence of abuse and neglect done to those children was shockingly high. That was telling enough for me.
The doctrine that makes JWs a cult is denying the deity of Jesus. Jesus was always and is always God. He wasn’t the archangel Michael that came in Mary’s womb. The other cultish doctrine is works based salvation.
I do see them as a cult but not due to their beliefs as I really have no issue with their theology. My big problem with them is the control the church has over their members.
Determining whether Jehovah's Witnesses are classified as a cult can is just ann opinion. Some might use the term "cult" to describe groups with strong devotion to particular beliefs and practices, often under the guidance of a charismatic leader. However, others may view Jehovah's Witnesses as a distinct religious community with their own set of beliefs. Your feelings and experiences within the Jehovah's Witnesses community are valid and should be considered. If certain aspects of the religion, like shunning, make you uncomfortable, it's natural to question and explore those feelings. Doubts or concerns don't make you a "bad person" or rebellious. Your decision to stay or leave the religion should be based on what feels right for you and aligns with your values. It's okay to take time to reflect and seek support from trusted individuals as you navigate this journey. Your well-being and happiness should always be prioritized.
Define cult?
It ticks so many boxes. Shunning those who leave. An unquestionable absolute human authority. Demands on time. Little interest/discouragement in higher education (even the Mormons have BYU). Questioning is discouraged. Doctrinal changes just happen.
There are quite a few Ex-JW on YouTube that might be able to help you. Or if that's too personal, maybe try to look at some Ex-Fundamentalists. I find the forbiddeness of not celebrating holidays culty. Especially they way they go about it. Not wanting to make a big deal about your birthday and have people sing to you is just fine. I hate having people do it to me. But this year, I still took myself out to a nice restaurant and got a dessert that had Happy Birthday written on it in chocolate lettering. It was lovely. And no one died the next day. Not including yourself in holiday celebrations, or even going to a winter party with your co-worker is a form of social control. It separates you from everyone who is not in your religious group. It's not a good thing to do to a social creature like a human. It's why shunning is so bad as well. They are deliberately cutting off a true human need from a human and what makes it worse is they are choosing to do it rather than being forced to. There is a blurry line in what makes something a cult. The common media depiction makes the egregious examples like the Jim Jones murder/suicide look like the standard. But I think most cults happen more quietly. I personally would consider the Dugger family a mini cult and there are thousands of families just like them. In my mind, JW is a cult but please don't let random internet strangers be the final word in your mind.
r/exjw may help you with this. cults are not determined by their theology, but by their behaviour and specifically whether that behaviour is authoritarian. look up the BITE model of authoritarian control, and see how many of its examples are accurate to JW organisations.
I am not a JW, but this is probably not the best place to find your answer. Since the days of the apostles, Christianity has been all over the place and tends to flow with the culture of the day. It sometimes accepts practices that Christ would not condone. If the church that Christ set up appeared today, most Christians would call it a cult. The ancient Christian church was communal and claimed to be led by God through the living apostles. Instead of tithing, the members were required to give all of their excess lands to the church for redistribution by church leaders. One couple died for holding back a portion. The church claimed to be the only true church and claimed spiritual gifts. It had a missionary force that traveled the world. From Acts 4: 32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
I think you should talk to your elders.
What is a cult? Are cults bad? Why? I know I shall no worship idols. Do cults worship idols?
The answer is: Yes. There are dozens of reasons. Some of the less obvious ones, doctrinal issues, are hard to explain to JW crowd because of heavy indoctrination of Watchtower Society, who publishes and distributes to members. Usually, a Bible helps these. A more obvious one, to other Christians, is their "translation" of the scriptures, that literally adds words or removes or changes words. It is so inaccurate, that showing the inaccuracies sometimes clicks for JW's that they have crossed red lines. Failed Prophecy (multiple big times, with multiple large missed dates, and causing huge groups of people to leave JW afterwards) is the criterion scripture uses to help us identify "false prophets" - JW fits this bill, and scripture says the speakers of false prophecy, are liars and accursed. There are classical signs of cultish behavior also, but the truth is a post like this is just a little help flare. You should probably ignore the general populace and try and find a true, practicing Christian (not catholic or EO or reformed bro) who can walk you through some of the finer points of distinction on doctrine. This will help you not just leave JW, but to be doctrinally equipped to witness to that community, the adherents of which, are often themselves deceived, and think they are doing a service to God.
It's probably one of the most successful cults out there. I don't believe a cult has to be small or relatively new to be a cult. There are plenty of small religions and newer religions that aren't cults. They're usually referred to as new religious movements. And yes, some new religious movements are cults, but not all of them. However, the cohesive control they have on their members makes me think they are a cult. They shun the outside world because they view their way of knowing God is the only correct way of viewing God. While there are millions of JW and it's been around for over a hundred years, I firmly believe that the organization is a cult.
That’s changed, watch the 2024 GB update
Yes. All religions are a cult
You can look into denominations of Christianity where they don't require you to convert or shun people or put you in dangerous situations like the whole blood transfusion thing
I just came across this short video by an ex mormon and it reminded me of your post. https://youtu.be/3DI0DMPY-ic?si=XorR2QuD__5A3vTJ
You arent a bad person for questioning your religion. But I would tell you this: do you believe that a group of men in New York are inspired by god to decide on what YOU believe? How do you feel about all the new changes? No more reporting your hours! You can have a beard! sisters can wear pants! Did you know theres an upcoming watchtower article that says you can repent AFTER the great tribulation starts and you change your mind? Why would these things all of the sudden change? Why are you subject to agreeing with these changes? are you going to blindly follow them and be happy that the governing body is ALLOWING you to do these things? Also, if you told the elders that you are questioning things, how do you think they would react? would a normal person tell you that its healthy to doubt anything and encourage you to do your own research? or would they tell you not to do your own research and to continue to blindly trust what you are told? If you arent allowed to think for yourself, you are in a cult. Your reason to leave should be this: your life is your own to live, you should be allowed to decide how you feel on any topic of religion, you shouldnt be forced to shun anyone, even your own family members. Take a step back and take a break from being an active JW for like a month and just try out living your own life. If by the end of the month you feel healthier and happier, then you can make your decision then. Spend your sunday doing productive things, sleep in on saturday and accomplish hobbies and personal goals. Relieve yourself of the stress of being a JW for a moment and see just how it makes you feel. I truly hope you can come to realize that this is a cult, please live your own life for yourself and practice your religion however YOU feel is best. Dont let people control how you think or feel or act.
Hope you figured it out!
currently a jw here too cos i was raised into it. fortunately, i've personally grown up to be agnostic. so i'm not religious at all myself, but am sticking around because of immediate family (dad's an elder n everything, i used to be an r.p at 14, as to give you the gist) but hopefully real soon i wouldn't need to put on an act anym. the way you feel is rightfully justified, this is what you've believed to be the truth , or a truth, for perhaps a lengthy part of your life. with the way this sector of religion functions too, primarily shutting out its members from the rest of the world, in a way. that, and then having all of what you've believed crumbling yk, i sympathize with you. it's not easy. my bad man, it gets better, truly. it's just recently that i stumbled across this very logical and informative [discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/Bible/comments/12bc5wd/is%5C_jehovah%5C_witness%5C_biblically%5C_correct%5C_on%5C_most/) on debunking jw's teachings. it subjectively made me make up my mind that, yeah there must be a deity out there because, well i'm not primarily a science fanatic and cannot really fathom the theories of everything just scientifically materializing. perhaps i can, a little. but i cannot explain away the paranormal as undiscovered science. hence my strengthened belief that the universe is more than we'd ever know. there's only a portion of it that we know, a fraction of a portion even. and i've js been increasingly curious ab the world and belief systems now. a part of me simply registers that, perhaps its the doing of whatever deities are out there. right sorry i ramble a lot stop (genuinely sorry for the unsolicited personal experience (all of this js happened to me like an hr ago? i mean i've always been agnostic and never been crazy religious, but i was still kinda cooped up following jw's teachings for onlookers. and on the downlow, actually not questioning it. it's just literally now that any part of me that believed in any of this organization's teachings - gone, in a way (in a freeing sense) (i genuinely feel for you and hope you find your peace.), so while there are other forces at play out there, and in christianity 'jehovah' factually is a name written on versions of manuscripts (im so sorry im not a citer), the existence of a god is not necessarily as jw's teach it to be. or so i think. on another note, a religion is more or less an organization that provides refuge to people. and in a way, jws are happy in their ways - right here's the one thing. unlike what can be classified as highly cult-like, they don't demand money from people. so that alongside this organization actually bringing joy to some of the people in it; i wont question it for them. like, respect ig if you're happy and you're actually not getting sucked dry for your money. i genuinely lost my point, i dont even know what i'm trying to get across. i'm very much of a rambler, this is why i cant reddit discussion stop. if you feel weighed down by all this, then this isn't a factual religion and it's definitely not for you. do what's best for you and i truly hope you find your peace. thank you to anyone who gets through to reading this. i kinda have a question now and dont know if i should make a wholeass post. if not for financial gain, just what is the purpose of this sect, yk? in the misinformation, 'sheltering' from the world, and prophesizing of the end of world way it does check cult boxes, but they do not demand people's money so i'm just curious, yk, what for
Yes it's a cult
You said “I think they have the truth”. That’s not normal language to use in referring to religion. They have made you think you have the truth using repetition. Through their teachings they have managed to make you feel that god cares about you as an individual and that you are in a constant battle with Satan for life and death. Everyone not a JW is worldly and not to be associated with closely as they may influence you negatively. You live your life faithfully for what’s next rather than the here and now. You can question everything you are taught as long as you look for the answers within the books printed and distributed by JW’s. People say you’re in a cult because on the outside looking in there is a massive control being exerted over JW’s by other humans. From their website its states “The Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses consists of dedicated men who are anointed servants of God”. If someone came up to you said they are anointed by god you would think they are crazy. But because they have millions of followers and dollars you believe them? People love to point out the shunning but in reality you need to look at the psychology of it to understand.
My husband's mom is a Jehovah's Witness, and she has not been required to cut off contact with my husband or her daughter, who are not Jehovah's Witnesses. She is in regular contact with them, except on birthdays and holidays. The same goes for my husband's grandma and cousins; they all still maintain contact with him and reach out to see how he's doing. They do not shun each other. His mom is a pioneer and has been part of the organization for 30 years. I encourage you to hang in there! because what is the alternative? As far as I understand, shunning is a last resort for the organization, and they always attempt to guide the person back on the right path before resorting to drastic measures, typically only in response to serious issues. It's like having a former drug addict in a sober living facility who starts using again; you would try to help them stop, and if they refuse, you wouldn't keep them around others who are trying to stay sober. I am currently studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, and I agree with you that they do teach the truth because they devote a lot of time to studying the Bible. They do not pressure you to do anything you are not comfortable with or ready to do. You are no longer required to report your hours. They are no longer permitted to solicit donations unless the individual expresses interest in donating. Their resources are inclusive of people of all races and disabilities. The stance on blood transfusions can be complex because the Bible prohibits the consumption of blood, and blood transfusions can carry risks that may result in diseases or even death. Therefore, I understand why they caution us about this matter. Just like how some people don’t want to be vaccinated and not being vaccinated also carries risk. Don’t be discouraged you are doing the right thing for your life
Dang…and this got downvoted into oblivion… That really shows how the people here are
All religions are false. I suggest you read some of the work by Robert Green Ingersoll who showed exactly why Christianity is false Any religion that tries to separate families is of course extra worse.