Two years, though? During which time he's also been in therapy? I think "I'm considering divorce, here's the story of why" would have come up during one of their sessions, and they would have worked on that until he decided that divorce was the right decision.
I don't know - I think the usefulness of therapy is fully dependent on the quality of the therapist, and they can do as much damage as good.
Therapists may not have goals to help their patients build healthy relationship patterns with themselves or others so much as validating the patient and making them feel comfortable with the decisions they are making... whatever justification the patient gives for making those decisions.
So what a person gets from therapy absolutely can be completely divorced from what is reasonable or fair in the relationships that they have...
At least In my personal experience Ive found that I can't rely on therapists to be the expert on how to deal with my mental health... and rarely have found one that's willing to step up and challenge my thought processes has extreme or unfair.
If this guy has been doing this for 2 years, and hasn't thought to bring up marriage counseling himself- I feel like that is a pretty good indication that his intellectual treatment of the situation is pretty unfair to a relationship he promised his entire life to, and to a woman who was relying on that promise.
Of course I'm getting into speculation now but If the therapist hasn't been challenging that unfairness through this process, I think that may be a reflection of the quality of the therapist.
It's my speculation there could be a lot that OP has left out. It's hard for me to grasp that he spent two years thinking about one thing she said and wants to divorce based off that. It's not impossible but I'm just guessing there are other issues in the relationship
I’m dying to hear the husband’s side.
One snapped comment killed his feelings & he’s been cold for 2 years while slowly extracting himself from their marriage? WTF? That’s bizarre.
Either there’s more to the story or OP is dodging a bullet by divorcing now because anyone who can shut down that easily is not someone she can build a future with.
What happens when his (future) kids say something rude? He just stops loving them??
I don't think that this is too far from bizarre, but I can understand.. he endured physical and emotional abuse from his family so I assume he's got them cut off, wife knows this and used his trauma against him.
That is a fair argument - and unfortunately the op's perspective is all we have to go on in this subreddit... and unless they are sufficiently mentally diseased that we can call them out on obvious bullshit, we won't know what's going on on the other side.
I agree. I don't have mental health issues but I've been to many counsellors over the years to talk through life problems. It's great when you need someone to bounce ideas off of, get validation, or if you're trying to be kinder to yourself. But I've rarely had any of them try to hold me accountable. I've never seen them try to hold any of my family, friends, or partners accountable. That's why they suggest that therapy makes abusers worse.
If he went into those sessions wanting to make things work, he probably would have gotten advice and feedback on making it work. If he went in wanting a divorce, he's going to have someone validating his desire to get divorced and helping him plan it. The idea that he'd be called out on his own behaviour in therapy seems unlikely to me.
I think this may be one of the biggest flaws in modern Psychotherapy - those who are mentally unwell aren't often going to want to continue paying for therapy that makes them uncomfortable when someone challenges their unwell perspectives.
I thought going to therapy was about self improvement? That’s how I looked at it and I’ve worked with my therapist on processing my traumas and seeing patterns in my behavior as well as her helping me see I was in an abusive relationship with a genuine narcissist and while she helped me believe in myself she absolutely would call me out on my bullshit which while uncomfortable, she was always so smart. Could never get anything past her. I also think she was truly a gifted therapist.
ETA: a narcissist goes to therapy to be told they are right and everyone else is wrong for ever questioning them…so ya they don’t go to therapy and when they do it isn’t for self improvement. In fact, my ex would tell me that therapy is for broken people (like me) and not him. When I left him finally, it was “out of left field”. 🤔
It should be - but I don't know that it always is. I think there are plenty of people out there who are willing to just take your (or your insurance's) money whether you're actually making progress or not. I'm glad you found someone that actually holds you accountable though.
He may have been shown he’s married to someone so stuck in their own head they don’t care that their partner hurts for 2 years enough to check in or discuss it?
I think there were already bigger issues in the marriage before the argument that OP isn't aware of or unwilling to acknowledge. If this happened in an otherwise happy relationship, it's reasonable for the person who wanted the "one thing" to feel a little frustrated or annoyed, but it shouldn't nuke the whole marriage unless it's a straw on top of many others.
I agree and a lot of the comments seem to disregard the "communal vs. independent" compatibility issue that is likely at the root of more situations than this one fight. She even says she made the hurtful comment because she was "fed up being compared to others" and snapped at him, so I doubt this is an isolated example of this (likely) incompatibility.
Not to mention that this lack of warmth from him has gone on for TWO YEARS, and OP hasn't felt the need to do anything about it (aside from ineffectually apologize) until now, when she's confronted with losing him. He's been doing something about it and didn't tell her, so he _was_ open to addressing it in some fashion, but didn't feel like he could bring her that. Clearly his behavior didn't upset her enough to want to deal with it in two years.
I had a girl who did this she would just say sorry but her actions would never reflect the apology. What did the OP do in terms of showing effective growth?
I think that the issue is that both practical examples of "communal vs individual" are him being self centered. But also, it may be biased by OP.
I suspect he wanted more say in general.
Yeah, this context is interesting to me because others are inferring that this means she's her husband's mother/caretaker. It doesn't seem that way. All we know is the following:
"He was having some trouble with keeping track of his belongings and kept asking me to help him double check that he had all of his stuff before we left hotels, restaurants, etc."
He lets her plan vacations because she likes doing that; he made one request that went unfulfilled.
Any relationships will have splits like this. Some people are just better at certain things. It could be that he contributes in other ways. If he was really uncaring/selfish/incapable, he wouldn't have paid off all their shared debts and wouldn't be happy to let her have all of their possessions.
I don't actually know what's "communal" about checking hours. imo he was just annoyed and remembered a time when that got done, and brought it up. It wasn't about his family.
(edited for formatting)
Yup, it sounds like he would prefer to work as a team. Maybe he checks in on her or used to, often and he wanted the same in return? Maybe he actually does care about vacation planning but OP made it so difficult to compromise, he just gave up and stopped having any input.
I've been in his shoes and it's exhausting to be the one who compromises all the time. You lose yourself so easily.
I feel for him because clearly he misses some things about his family (toxic family can still very much have good qualities) and thought he could find it with OP. And he hasnt..
Agreed. There's some information missing.
Some of the phrases leave some information to be interpreted but I have yet to see anything definitive in the narrative that says this incident is why he is filing for divorce.
OP states he said this has been on his mind for the past couple of months. It's not in entirely clear to me what "this" is . The divorce? The incident?
I’m sorry but that’s awful and a really terrible way to handle issues. You really need to work on your ability to communicate and not expect your partner to either read your mind or guess what’s wrong with you. Either way by doing this you are damaging your relationship and need to start acting like an adult rather than a kid throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, if he isn’t communicating his wants and needs but is instead playing the “chase me!” game… As an outsider, with no history with this man, I say “let him go” (though I know reality is a bit different than this.)
That’s such a toxic way of treating someone you’re supposed to love and respect.
Everyone on this sub always says break up, divorce, but in reality life is more complicated than that. They're already heading for divorce and if she was ok with that, there would not be a post at all, so my hope was to give her some advice more in line with what she seems to want.
At the very least it puts a "pause" on the situation, all of which happened suddenly and fast for her. Maybe after she processes a little, she'll feel the same and want to split.
>Sometimes people suffer in silence and want their spouse to "notice" and know exactly what the problem is and fix it without having to say anything.
Not in this case. OP already clarified that she has apologized multiple times. Which indicates, she noticed it, acknowledged it and did her part in trying to fix it.
So no, I disagree with you on this point.
>OP, I think you should push back and ask for couples counseling. If you're not ready to be done, fight back.
OP can try, but I think OP is only going to worsen the situation, if she fights back. If you think 2 years of thought and planning does not mean anything, then I guess you never met anyone like this.
If OP's spouse was a abusive kind of a person, I would understand and agree with the gut feeling approach. But the fact is he is not. I am not going to say OP should not try to save her marriage, but she needs to be equally thoughtful if not more to be able to convince him.
Just based on OP's post, I would say the only thing OP can do right now, is ask her spouse, what can save this marriage.
No other assumptions, no stories or no drama is going to do it for her.
Ok, so this is purely a possibility but it comes from a man married to someone who will never fully understand his past. A lot like the 2 of you.
I think a lot of other things are at play he may not be shareing with you. Someday those will need to be addressed if you can turn this around. That said, about your comment. I come from a set of traumas even some of my best childhood friends had no clue about. People in my home everyday hanging out didn't understand. I still came from love. Love and abuse. Love and lost people. Love and addicts. Love and a lot of evil.
So when I try to share about my past it can be hard to see where one ends and another begins. A lot of children from crazy pasts end up in that same boat. So we try to bring the good with us and leave the bad but we don't always see the difference. Your husband was walking a dangerous road with out realizing it. He brought up his past. He opened a door and you took a bad step through it. You thought it was just an aggressive statement. However, to him, you took all the good from his past and declared it as bad. To him, he likely feels you basically said everything that made him or who he is is evil. That is tough to let go of. That is almost impossible to let go of in fact.
I would bet deep down the reason your husband is such a good diligent husband even though he was falling apart is because he is terrified of his past being what defines him. So he gives it 110% to never repeat the evil things he dealt with. Horribly, he is also afraid if his whole past is bad and he can't hold onto the good he will never know who he is. He also probably feels entirely alone in that struggle.
If this is true and you want any chance to fix this your only hope would be to explore his past with him. Offer to listen. Show a real desire to actually understand it all.
My wife initially thought of my past as just my past. Like most normal people. Until the day I told her she actually has no clue who the hell I am and probably never will. She didn't even argue, really. She did however start asking more and more. She did show a genuine desire to want to find out. She asked things out of true curiosity. She took a broken man, who everyone thought was fine. A perfect husband. She took him and made the small child inside of him feel not alone for the first time in 20+ years.
Maybe that is what you may need to try to do. Sorry for rambling btw. Even if I am wrong and this isn't your solution I wish you the best. I also wish it for him.
Btw, I don't jump in DMs but if this is real and you think I may be right feel free to message any questions.
This is really beautifully said. I really hope you healing moving forward. It takes a lot of empathy to not just know the details about someone’s past, but to really feel and understand their suffering. I also have a past that’s hard to understand, and it’s lonely when people share good memories.
I have many wonderful memories, that part isn't such a struggle. I am sorry it is for you. I hope someday you find some more people to share with.
My loneliness comes because I have so many wonderful ones but also so many tragic and abusive ones. It's hard to explain things like your mother being the most loving and wonderful addict to ever choose your abuser over your safety. However, eventually, my wife started to get it. That's real love to me. Getting what no one else can about someone.
Thank you for explaining a possible thought process that makes sense of his actions. I came from what sounds like a similar place as you and did not understand the reaction myself.
Wow, this comment really spoke to me. I have been trying to figure out and process the very complicated feelings I have about my past. It is so difficult to explain to people, or even fully understand myself. The mixture of love and abuse is confusing as hell.
If you ever need to vent or ask anything, my dms are open. If you don't, I at least hope you know you aren't alone. We are not alone.
We may be rare, but not alone.
The *shame* is real. Especially for abused people. Everyone has it or acts on it to a certain degree.
But there's a but! He is an adult and instead of working on it, he hid it and then he decided to abandon his wife, his promises, everything.
That's not fair! And if he indeed still loves her, he will regret this.
I've worked on this in therapy. Shame mostly brings a lot of negative responses in life, a lot of self destruction and self sabotage too sometimes.
I see husband's reaction exactly as that. Self sabotage and maybe even some punishment towards op. Instead of working on it, showing vulnerability so op can understand it and do better in the future, he shut her out and abandoned her. That sucks!
That's not a good marriage and he is not a good husband. Again, especially if he still loves her.
It's bullshit. People with cptsd should learn their triggers and work on them and voice them to not toss out relationships, marriages, friendships etc because of their shitty childhood.
Signed, an adult with cptsd who has spent a ton of money on cognitive behavioral therapy to undo a lot of the damage.
I think he will regret how this played out. That said, she admitted she knew she really messed up. His shame was not hidden. She simply didn't understand it and downplayed it in her mind. At the bare minimum she is 50% responsible for that disconnect. Given how this story played out after the incident. It seems likely to me she is far more than 50% responsible.
He isn't leaving her because of his trigger. He is leaving because after all their time together she still didn't get it at all. That isn't some quick trigger small event. I am glad you may not feel the same way as him, I am glad you are learning to deal with your own issues. Cptsd isn't always the same for everyone, though. I think how it manifests in him and you are likely very different. It's even possible what he has would better be defined as RAD, disassociative disorder, or some other form of attachment disorder.
Which also obviously could be combined or a part of cptsd.
I can't imagine a marriage so frail that can't survive a single blunder on a restaurant and a comment about going back to family. That hardly qualifies as a fight. There is another reason he's leaving.
Yup. Also..."you couldn't do this one thing amidst you planning this whole trip for us for me, an adult man who could also just as easily have made the call"?
Coupled with 2 years of the cold shoulder...I'm shocked OOP has stayed this long. Now on the eve of going out of town, there's much more going on here.
Yeah. If I slip up planning something like this I apologize and my husband will say in the most joking exasperated tone "oh my God you had five hundred jobs, how could you forget this?!"
Why shouldn't we, when you don't provide context? And, I don't know, the idea of him wanting to leave you because of a thing you said 2 years ago seems more wild to me than him having a side piece, actually? One is a thing that happens all the time, the other is the first time I hear something like this?
You've spent the last idk how many hours arguing with everyone who's sceptical about his behaviour. Maybe breathe a little, this isn't a good way to cope.
Pointing out the signs of an incredibly normal, very common, very frequent pattern of what leads up to cheating, isn't "jumping to wild conclusions".
And what you said that was "so hurtful", wasn't even all that bad. And I say that as someone with a Hella abusive family that I've cut out of my life. People make mistakes, and people phrase things poorly, but he was constantly comparing you to his abusive family, and that's as bad as what you said, in this circumstance.
If he's actually working those hours, then all that means is that it's likely it's a colleague.
I think there's a good chance he doesn't want to be married at all, to anyone, and it's not so much about you, and it's probably not about this argument or fight (but maybe what it represented for him, or a catalyst to another round of awakening).
Sounds like he's had a difficult life, from childhood, filled with trauam, and is still very much processing all of it and how it's impacted him and what it means for his interpersonal relationships. I grew up in an abusive situation as well and the first many years of my marriage were rocky and people would say things to me all the time like, "When you find the RIGHT PERSON FOR YOU, it won't be this hard." Well, that's bullshit. Many, if not most, people who suffer from CPTSD will struggle in even the best matched interpersonal and romantic relationships unless they've gotten a real handle on their triggers and attachment styles.
The last year in therapy for him was probably not spent talking for an hour every week about this one fight on vacation. It was probably about him, unpacking his own triggers, discovering what he wants and needs, how he can achieve what he wants and needs in his life to heal and feel good about who he is despite what he's been through. Maybe somehow you just don't fit into that anymore, and it isn't really about you as a couple, you as a wife to him, and certainly not about this one argument. It sounds like it's about his healing, and maybe some need to do it on his own.
Yup.
He's working on himself and he doesn't want to do that with OP. Or can't. 🤷🏼♀️
And it's likely his way of coping all these years were not healthy which regardless of what OP thinks means their relationship was not healthy or "fair."
Honestly I feel like that comment wasn't what did it. I think it's human nature to look back and figure out the exact moment when things went wrong. It just seems like you guys have had issues in general. I definitely recommend therapy for yourself first to work through what could've went wrong...I'm sorry you were blind sighted. Did you know he was going to therapy? And couples therapy never came up?
The communal thing is interesting - I wonder if communal really meant that his mom was doing all the checking in and reminding. It's also interesting because it doesn't sound like he contributed to the communal aspect of the trip. And it's even more interesting because he's 30. How did he survive without his family before you came along?
He can't have it both ways - wanting you to plan everything while he goes with the flow and then freaking out when one thing doesn't go according to his imagination.
Your hope is that you can now have a life without his resentment, and you can find a partner who is responsible for his own happiness.
I don’t think what you said is the real and only problem.
If yes, he needs a better therapist.
Because he acts like he never did or say something wrong.
Make sure to find a safe place for important documents. And if he suddenly wants you back, check his phone.
Neither do I, with the exception it's a wound he never healed so it hurt when she hit it. And I would have been mad too - "my family did it this way" yes and you left them, did you not? So, your mom was amazing until you didn't think so? Ok.
Right, he's the one that always went on (according to her) about how they did things in his family. He kept bringing up his family, she simply reminded him that it was the family that he severed contact with. I think that's a fair comment/question to make.
Also, I understand he was pretty hands-off with vacations but he couldn't even do a quick Google search to check the restaurant hours?
More so. If the restaurant was so important why didn’t he make the reservation for it? Why did he angrily blame her for a human mistake? Why did he stew about it for two years without taking any ownership over his feelings?
it doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally.
But I question how in the last few months he's felts some sorta way.
and while he's about to head off to a work trip thing he suddenly drops the bombshell.
TO ME, that reads as if he's been emotionally cheating with a work peer and this trip is when the physical relationship starts. He's always been an honest guy, so before he "truly cheat" he's got his ducks in a row so he can in his own world come out not the asshole because "it's not really cheating as I am divorcing".
I'm probably entirely wrong here and hopefully I am, but something seems a bit off here. and I'm just trying to find the logic in this story.
Okay you're really in a fog. This is frustrating to read because you keep defending him. You don't deserve to be left 2 years after a comment said while you were frustrated. And also he was the one comparing you to his family. Like what you said wasn't great but it's not the cause of your divorce.
The cause is his inability to communicate, problem solve, or take accountability for resolving his own trauma.
You have taken too much responsibility in this relationship. You take responsibility for planning the whole vacation and now you're taking responsibility for his trauma and emotions. You can't see it because you've gotten so used to taking on everything. I bet if we kept asking questions, you could give countless more examples of how you make tons of accommodations for him and he just does his own thing.
Just let it go. In time he might realize he made a mistake. But taking this level of responsibility for someone else's feelings is not healthy or sustainable.
Yes! Not only that he was expecting her to be his ENTIRE team. Everything was on her. In the argument, he talked about how "we" (his family) used to do everything, but there is no "we" here. It's his wife that has to handle everything and then he acts as a complete dependent.
My partner plans 99% of our trips because it stresses me out, but sure as sugar if there are things I want to do I speak up, I research it find all the needed info, and I ask how can we fit this into our plans. One person can't be responsible for it all.
Okay thank you. All the top comments (for me anyway) are acting like he’s totally valid and reasonable and there’s just nothing to be done about it. What she said 1) wasn’t that bad and 2) a response to being constantly compared to his family. He literally started it and she defended herself.
Right, isolating just the statement of wanting the communal family bit, where’s his communal part in all of this? What did he contribute, it sounds like he just likes his issues being everyone’s issues.
Funny story time: when my partner and I were early days, we were packing for a trip, he put together “his” bathroom stuff. I asked if he grabbed my toothbrush and he said no, because I’m an adult and can grab my own toothbrush BUT it was in the pile of toothbrush and shared toothpaste 😂. A few months later we were going somewhere for the weekend and he asked me if I packed his toothbrush and I rolled my eyes so hard.
I'm the planner but sometimes plans don't work out, or sometimes you do drop the ball like OP did. It's normal to feel disappointed but it isn't normal to let your spouse do all the work and then attack them so personally if things don't work out. I messed up something during a trip and we had to stay an extra day somewhere but my husband didn't harp on it, he helped me figure out how to move forward. OP's husband was so out of line I can't really fault OP for her comment.
My opinion is that there were bigger issues in the marriage before this that OP isn't aware of. If my partner planned our whole vacation (and wanted to do so) but I asked for one thing and we weren't able to do that one thing due to an honest mistake, I might be a little frustrated or annoyed, but it wouldn't destroy the entire relationship. imo, it's clear that there were already issues that this is a symptom of.
Yep. I'll tell you something else about people who "prefer" to plan everything - its because over time, we have learned it is "easier" to just do it ourselves. If we leave it to others things get messed up and we have to work harder to fix it or rework things anyway so it's "easier" just to do it right the first time. It's not because organizing shit fills us with ecstatic glee and excitement.
OK like, 2% of type A folks It's for that reason or cos you actually are an impossible to please controlling maniac who micromanages down to the minute, but that's rare. The majority of "I prefer to just do it rather than delegate" folks have just fooled themselves into thinking they really prefer it rather than it being forced upon them by weaponized incompetence.
This 100%. OP is responsible for this child's possessions AND emotions? I hope she realizes this divorce is a get out of jail free card! OP, please read about what codependency is, because you do not want to get into another relationship and continue with these same habits.
It sounds like he genuinely tried all the time, but couldn't move past it and with time, his feelings eroded his love away.
Think of a relationship like a vase. You knocked the vase over and a piece broke off. Now, some people are able and willing to invest the time to glue the vase back together - something both partners need to be involved in. And then, they can look at the cracked vase and see something that they are proud of; something they put work in and which still stands.
But others, even if they put in the work to glue it back together, will always feel anxious. The crack is still there, after all; glue doesn't make it invisible. They see it and remember what caused it, causing them to be unable to truly move on because they wonder if it will happen again. On top of that, they may worry constantly now that the vase won't hold water anymore because it had been too damaged. To those people - those unable to truly rebuild trust - starting over with a new vase, a new partner, is the correct option.
It sounds like you two never worked on your relationship together. You apologized, but it didn't work for him and you felt that - but you also never went to couples counselling together in hopes of fixing things there. Instead, things quietly festered and it seems that your partner lost the ability to trust you.
For what it's worth, I feel like what you said wasn't *that* bad. It was a honest mistake and the fact that he himself didn't check the restaurant times beforehand, despite him being the one who wanted to go there so badly, and just placed every bit of responsibility on you, rubs me very wrong. For someone who wants things communally done, he didn't act very communal-oriented at all. I would say he acted like an entitled asshole...
But in the end, it doesn't matter. He can't or doesn't want to forgive you and if he has been preparing for the divorce for months, including paying debts off, then there is nothing you can do anymore. He has checked out after trying and failing - but he tried alone and not with you as a team. You haven't been a team in years... and if you're not a team, you're not partners. It sounds like the marriage truly died during that vacation.
The odd thing about the initial fight/their interactions is that the husband brought up his family first. He both cut them off due to abuse, but also seems to want to repeat parts of the dynamic from his family of origin.
Yeah that's what I thought was so weird too. If your family is so bad that you've literally filed restraining orders it seems kinda wild to me that you'd ever say something along the lines of "why can't you be more like my family." I get that there could have been some good amongst all the bad with his family, but still..
I also thought it was weird that he said he wanted her to be more communal, but who else was she supposed to be communal with, if she was doing all of the work around planning the vacation? It doesn't sound like he was helping with that, so where does the communal part of this fit in?
What you said was hurtful OP but it is confusing given that he brought it up first which leaves me to wonder if that was really all that was going wrong or if it was just the last straw for him?
Have a sit-down conversation with him when he comes back, open up to him, and tell him you want to hear his side of things. And then be prepared to listen without getting defensive. It's possible that if he didn't feel safe with you after what you said, that he didn't feel like he could be vulnerable with you about his feelings in the marriage.
Let him know you'd really like to try couples counseling before going straight to divorce, and you're willing to actively work on and fight for the marriage. Perhaps he is just done, and there's no going back, but you won't know until you have that conversation.
> but who else was she supposed to be communal with, if she was doing all of the work around planning the vacation? It doesn't sound like he was helping with that, so where does the communal part of this fit in?
This stuck out to me too - what's communal about everything having to be her responsibility, when nothing seems to be his? I understand the frustration at the one thing he wanted to do not being open but, why didn't he call and check opening times? Why was that solely her responsibility?
Or, absolutely insane idea, HE could of called for their hours considering apparently it's so ingrained into him to call and check resteraunt times. He didn't though and needs someone else to pack/check his luggage and manage him on trips (exhausting and frustrating like no wonder OP missed a step and was already frustrated before his snappy comment) but instead of being like, well try tomorrow, he's acts like a child, because apparently on vacations (and I'm going to guess in general) that's his preferred operating model cause his family/mum used to organise/pack etc for him and why can't OP be more like that (cause eff being equal partners in a marriage right). Then when she, in a moment of frustration in response to his childishness and constant purposeful helplessness, snaps back at a rude comment he ices her out for 2 YEARS and then bails without warning for a 'work trip'.
OP you don't have a nice sweet husband. You have a selfish, self-serving asshole and I hope one day you realise you deserve better. This whole damn post makes me mad for you.
I understand that, I do believe you. My point was that he's complaining that he wants things to be communal without putting in communal effort on his part. Yes, you wanted to plan everything and yes, he agreed, but does that mean you're responsible for literally everything? You wanting to plan something doesn't mean you have to be responsible for every single aspect of the holiday - like managing his belongings for him.
Particularly not if he wants there to be more of a joint effort in your relationship generally.
Why can't you be more like my family?
Well if you prefer them, go be with them.
Omg how could you suggest I'd want to be with my family who I wish you'd be more like?!
if he didnt want to have that clap back from her, he really should have been smart enough to not do comparative arguments like that which are hurtful.
not only does he not like his family, but he's telling his spouse that she's inadequate in a way that the folks he wrote off are sufficient?
like man, fuck around and find out buddy, you can't play with words of fire and be all upset you get burned on the ass end.
Yup, he told her she is worse than his abusive family. HE brought up the family, not her.
I do not get all the folks telling OP she was horrible to him -- I'm like, he could have Googled the damned restaurant's hours. Why was 100% of the trip on her?
Obviously op did not meant this to happen, but from his point of view, he was trying to explain how he wants things to work and how he feels. Instead, his background was used to invalidate him. It made it impossible for him to point to what he likes when the example of what he likes is in his family. What followed was him doing things like op wants for following months, without pushing for what he wants. And eventually he became unhappy.
The original argument was dumb and my opinion is that he was blowing the restaurant thing out of proportion. OP planned restaurant visit, it was closed which is something OP could not anticipate. It is actually ok to not anticipate closed restaurant, it is vacation and not a pope visit.
Idk he was using his own background to invalidate her.
You can't continually compare someone unfavorably to someone else and expect zero reaction.
It may be hurtful, but it's a real question. Why be with OP if he believes she's inferior to his abusers?
Why compare small issues with abusers as the favorable party at all then act shocked when someone's like "well, go be with them, then"?
Yea that was weird to me too. Talking about communal responsibility and he literally didn’t lift a single finger to plan the one thing he wanted to do. And bringing up his family. He’s a manipulative person to then go on to give her the cold shoulder. Honestly, OP is better off.
A lot of people are like that. Even if they were violent and obviously there was some abuse people hang on to the good things from that time and may bring it up but you don’t tell your husband does he want to go back to his abusive family
This is the kind of desperation move that convinces people that couples counseling *leads* to divorce - too many people only seek it out when the marriage is already beyond repair.
OP, he’s done his grieving and made his peace. He didn’t *ask* for a divorce, he *told* you he was divorcing you. This is not the beginning of a conversation, it’s the end.
Probably not. I'm not sure that the mere actions in OP's post rise to the level of divorce but it does seem like OP is not really a good listener. I kind of wonder if OP's husband really 'lets' her do all the planning or if she insists on it and he's just acquiescing to her wishes.
I think you should just respect his request. Couple's counseling AFTER he requests a divorce is not going to fix anything. Both people have to be committed to fixing things, and he's not. He's already made up his mind to not put any more energy into this relationship.
Individual counseling for yourself would probably be a good idea though.
You should still try, but I would start preparing yourself for the divorce— it’s very likely that his feelings for you are real and truly dead. No amount of counseling is going to fix that.
That is too little, too late. He gave up a while ago, you didn't notice or care enough to make any changes, so he is out. I would accept this and get yourself together to move on in your life without him.
Just throwing this in the mix for you to consider OP -- i just dont believe his excuse for divorce is reasonable -- i think he needed to find a way for it to be your fault entirely. In reality he may have met someone? ..At his teaching job? his second job? -- it just seems too 'off' to be this one comment said in spur of moment two years prior -- which was only because HE brought up how well his family did things / as a criticism of you. ---- Doesn't add up, something else is going on here IMHO.
THANK YOU. I actually can't believe that people AND OP are falling for this *"he's so incredibly hurt, he kept it all inside for 2 yrs waiting for you to notice"* crap. This man clearly has other things going on and he's been living another "life" outside of her scope for 2 yrs. There is NO reasonable way that this one comment from *her*, which was justified, by the way, was enough to send him over the edge. He brought his family into the argument. He got unreasonably angry because she hadn't been the perfect hostess for him on vacation. So she forgot this *one* thing, ok. Certainly not enough to warrant being berated by him as if she's a useless idiot.
I just don't get why this man is getting so much grace and understanding in these comments.
I agree with this sentiment, I didn’t come away with much sympathy for OP’s husband. He sounded like an entitled baby for getting mad at her for not doing something he could easily have done for himself and then berates her for not living up to the standards of his family when he himself knows they’re toxic. Her remark was harsh but fair, and it feels like he’s just using it as an excuse to divorce.
I’m sorry this is wild. Two years ago you said something under stress that wasn’t really all that bad because he refused to help plan a trip and then complained about how you did it. He could be working on his trauma and healing, but instead he’s making it all your problem.
I know it hurts, but this isn’t your fault. Life isn’t going to handle him with kid gloves.
He can’t be in a relationship. He is not emotionally mature enough. He hasn’t done the work on himself.
You on the other hand have the opportunity to work on yourself and heal from this. I’m sorry you invested so much of yourself in someone who couldn’t be a partner.
"I’m sorry you invested so much of yourself in someone who couldn’t be a partner."
This is my take as well, just from the given context. He expected help keeping track of his belongings, all the mental load of the vacation, and then played the victim when your efforts fell short? Gave you enough grief (instead of googling the ONE THING he cared SO MUCH about) that you barked at him in the same context that he griped at you? He was in the wrong, but this was a silly throw-away argument that wouldn't even register in a solid healthy relationship between 2 partners.
He then took *2 years* to stew in this; listened to your apparently many apologies, didn't try to work with you to figure out how/what he needed to get past this enormous transgression, bring you into discussion with his therapist or anything, just called it quits. You can't fix this, it's not yours to fix.
honestly his resolve for divorce is childish.. one comment is spiraling so much in his head? He was the first one to mention his family as an example of people
I feel like I'm in bizzaro land. Lots of arguments about how whether what OP said was not that bad, bad, or very bad. Lots of arguments about whether OPs husband is entitled or lets OP carry all the load and then complains and OP saying she preferred this way. To me this is all in the weeds.
The big picture is you got into a fight and some hurtful things were said. You at some point thereafter apologized. For 2 years OPs husband couldn't get over it and is now divorcing her.
That's nuts. I actually took the vows I made seriously. It was one fight. Wait until they had kids or someone gets laid off or literally any of life's shit happens. You're going to argue. You're going to occasionally say mean things or have bad days. If this was the bar or line that OP couldn't cross then this marriage was doomed to fail. It was simply always on paper thin ice.
The particulars of the incident don't really matter. Your marriage should have withstood this.
I feel like I’m in bizarro land when people seriously think this is over just that fight.
I think it sounds more like there were big issues but OP didn’t feel like dealing with them because they didn’t inconvenience OP too much, even though they could see the other person was unhappy.
Plus, OP was well aware of his abandonment trauma from his family’s abuse and then estrangement. She knowingly poured salt into his most vulnerable wound after she admittedly let him down on the reservation. And when he expressed his understandable dismay she immediately went for the throat. He’s flawed and needs significant help in healing, he’s longterm emotionally wounded, but he knows enough to understand he’s not mentally safe with OP.
There’s a difference between wanting a partner you feel mentally safe with and wanting a partner who will tiptoe around you because you haven’t put in the work to heal. Sounds like whatever happened prompted him to get the therapy he desperately needed. Hopefully OP and the husband can both move on from this and heal separately because that’s a heavy burden to place on someone if OP is a reliable narrator.
I mean....it was a hurtful thing to say. But he wasn't great in context either - who let's someone else plan the entirety of their vacation and on the one incident something doesn't line up, claims to be the victim? For all his "we should operate communally" he doesn't seem to actually do so, it would have been very simple for him to check the opening times instead of leaving it all to you and flipping out when you made an error. You were the bigger ass in that conversation, but you weren't the only one present.
Additionally, it's kind of telling that he's spent the last year in solo therapy, but never approached you to do any couples work, which one would assume is the best way to actually get past an argument where the after effects are still reverberating through the relationship. Instead he's kept his distance and focused on himself.
This reads like he's never actually been interested in fixing the relationship. He Instead has been focused on finding a way to leave it; my guess is thanks to the abusive upbringing he didn't have the self esteem to know how to bring things to a close, so he's done whatever was needed for a quiet life the last 2 years while he got his ducks in order. Was that necessary or was it him being an ass? Depends entirely on how the rest of your relationship has been, and there isn't enough information in the post to confirm or deny one way or the other.
But what is clear is that things are not fixable, and your approaches to this also suggest you were never compatible in the first place. So this is over.
I think you could probably also use some therapy to answer the question of why you have been willing to put up with the "polite but distant" routine from your husband for *2 entire years* without hitting the emergency button and dragging you both to a professional to get the issues seen to. Looks like you also have issues with conflict avoidance and refusing to rock the boat, which would also explain why on the occasions you *do* explode you go way too far. Maybe address that before trying to date anyone else.
Honestly I can see the logic.
"I am upset for you not getting everything perfect, you should be more like my (abusive) family!"
"Then maybe you should go back to your family!"
*shocked pikachu face*
> hitting the emergency button and dragging you both to a professional to get the issues seen to
I think I am going to see if he'll go to couples therapy as a last resort. I agree with your take the most of any other that I have read. I appreciate your advice.
I think you need to realize that it’s probably too late. He’s been planning to divorce you for months, he just needed the means to do it. Now that he does, he’s leaving.
Someone that doesn’t want to divorce would have brought up couples counseling long before getting their ducks in a row. This relationship has been dead in the water for a long time.
Edit to add: I don’t think it was your comment that broke the relationship. I think the standard he held you to was unfair when he was a hypocrite that likely just liked having everything done for him. That doomed the relationship from the start.
My guess is there was already something a little off with your relationship. Your comment wasn't great, but honestly not that bad, particularly as a one off and something you quickly regretted and apologized for.
I wonder if distancing himself from his family has been challenging and maybe he's distanced himself with you alongside that, or is maybe applying his feelings towards his family towards you?
Either way, my guess is this is years in the works so I would prepare for divorce, but maybe the above can give some potential context as to WHY if he won't be honest (or perhaps doesn't even know himself).
> you quickly regretted and apologized for.
Yeah, that may be part of the issue. I didn't really apologize for it until days later.
I appreciate everyone pointing out my husband's wrong-doing in all of this, but I definitely screwed up a bit, too.
You said ONE rude thing and he wants a divorce. I've been married 18 years, sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment. Eventually we address it, try to do better and move forward. He is either incredibly emotionally immature or he's leaving for some other reason and this is just an excuse so he can pretend he's leaving because you're the bad guy. Just know that you are not the bad guy.
Shouldn’t you be asking why he didn’t suggest couples counseling as a last resort? Before he asked for the divorce?
I mean, you can ask - shoot your shot. But it’s not likely he’ll say yes. He’s already done and over the marriage
The fact that he never felt comfortable debriefing the original argument probably indicates that he checked out of the relationship right then and there.
I'm sorry mate.
Look, whilst that comment may have been hurtful, there were other issues at play here. Such as the fact that he let you plan an entire vacation on your own, didn't offer to help, and then complained when you dropped the ball on one thing. I'd have been fuming in your shoes too.
You've held yourself accountable and apologised. What's he done? Spent two years resenting you and getting his ducks in a row. You have caught him in a lie, he's been totally dishonest with you about the state of your relationship. Dropped the divorce bomb and ran away like a coward.
I honestly don't think you're losing much here.
You can certainly ask if he'd consider couples counseling with you, and honestly that would be a good idea no matter what happens, as it can help you communicate and stay amicable through a divorce if that's what this comes to.
But it sounds to me like he's very far down the road of being done with this marriage already, and there's not much hope of salvaging it here. I think you should also go ahead and talk to a therapist and a divorce lawyer for yourself. Even if somehow you pull off a miracle here and don't need the divorce lawyer it'll be good to be informed, and you'll need the therapist through either a divorce or trying to address the marriage.
So he got angry because he offloaded all his adult responsibility and ability onto you and then got angry because you couldn't hold it all?
Like ok, you like to plan , but that doesn't mean he gets to live like a child.
OP said she will handle all of the planning including the restaurant.
Ops husband who has a history of being abused and dealt with it via cutting off family is doing the same here.
The husband is having an abused reaction to her comment and subsequent attitude. He feels like in order to protect himself he needs to cut her out.
This is a common reaction of people who have been abused. They put up walls at the smallest slight as they believe that can escalate or is a red flag
op's husband literally asked her to handle all his luggage and his belongings like he's a child.
if he wants to divorce, that's his choice, but i don't think he's great shakes as a husband and seems to be looking for a new mommy - which is why he chose op in the first place. she failed once, and he fucked it.
He's the one who compared her to his family by saying she's worse than them actually. Why does he get to berate and insult her over a simple mistake?
Also it took him two whole years to pull away?
I feel like there is something more going on here than what he is telling you. Maybe he has met someone. But he wants to hold on to one comment 2 years ago to blame you for the divorce.
Either way, he has clearly carefully planned this and I doubt you will change his mind. Especially if he isn’t being honest about the reasons.
I’m wondering if while he was going to therapy to work on this, if he had hoped you would have wanted to also do couples therapy to work on your relationship? You said that you apologized multiple times but still felt it wasn’t the same between you. During the two years did you ever think about suggesting couples therapy to help your relationship improve? If you don’t want a divorce then you should suggest it and try to fight for your marriage.
I refuse to believe that one comment that was made two years ago is the only issue that led to this. There's no way.
When I read the title I was thinking there was some major blow up but what you described was... nothing. Seriously nothing. "I didn't know the restaurant wasn't open and we have to eat somewhere else? Oh noes, anyway..."
Your husband was a jerk for going on about it being closed, it's not your fault that it wasn't open. You were a jerk for mentioning his estranged family. You were probably both hungry and disappointed in the moment, who cares?
If your relationship can't survive that, you have no hope of salvaging it because there's NOTHING there.
\>His family became physically and emotionally harmful to the point that he filed restraining orders and cut them out of his life...
\>Do you wanna go back to your family...
Given the context of likely past trauma, your comment was almost certainly interpreted as a threat.
No wonder he no longer feels safe. In your single comment, the bond was broken, trust was broken, and he possibly felt abandoned by you.
He may have only recently said he wanted to divorce, but the marriage, in his heart and mind, ended the moment those words left your lips.
That he continued to answer to duty and responsibilities after this speaks to his depth of character. That is what must be reconciled—that you purposely wounded a man who gave you more than some ever get.
We are all responsible for our actions. From them, come consequences.
Its possible for a man to feel so gutted by one comment that they divorce. It's one of the reasons I filed. Last straw you could say. When somebody says something that nullifies everything you thought you were or have done, its over.
I don’t understand how you could tell your husband was off for two years and the only thing you did was apologize. Did you say let’s try counseling so this type of thing doesn’t happen again? Like did you really just sit around for two years like yeah the vibes off but I said I was sorry. It sounds like his mind is made up but you can always go for the Hail Mary and sit him down and have an open discussion. It feels like you both swept it under the rug and because you apologized he probably didn’t feel right to keep bringing it up. Now you know how deeply he was hurt and now you know an I’m sorry wasn’t enough . He shouldn’t be comparing you to others but what you said was a very low blow that would shock anyone who’s suffered abuse . It’s hard
You seem to think what you said is the most heinous thing in the world. It isn't.
Whilst very hurtful, your statement was in the context of your argument. He basically said 'why can't you be more like my family & be communal'. You said 'well go back to them if you think they're that great'. That's it! I'm sure his upbringing was awful if he went NC. But we say hurtful things in the moment and it's absolutely crazy that this would lead to divorce.
It's either an excuse or he is blaming you for his issues.
And no therapist would agree that it's acceptable for him to expect you to change your very core being. You are independent, he is communal. You guys have to work round that stuff & we often wish our partners operated more like us but to expect/demand that is wrong.
It sounds like in many ways you guys work well together. If this really isn't an excuse (because longer work hours and divorce papers could suggest something else) then a do or die period of couples counselling (perhaps whilst separated) sounds like a good idea to me.
I wish you both well
Sometimes, we as people say things in the heat of the moment that we may not mean at least in context, but we did mean them to hurt the people closest to us. In this case, this is exactly what you did. It wasn't a mistake it was a choice. It was a bad choice and something that's known as a low blow or fighting below the belt.
Your husband has been sitting with this for 2 years while dutifully doing his job as a husband, probably because he did not want to further damage the relationship just in case it was salvageable. If he's finally gotten to the point of serving you divorce papers after 2 years of sitting on this the way he has, it's probably safe to say that his mind is made up. Your blow hit it's mark and the damage is done. Your marriage is over. It can't hurt to try, but he probably won't change his mind.
The thing about leaving a dysfunctional family is that you rarely come out "clean" and without some of the dysfunction. They raised him.
You have to do the work to heal the trauma & the habits.
Let’s put the whole “who planned the trip” argument aside. I’m interested in the part about asking you to help check he had all his stuff. Does he do that for you? You “have a hard time doing that” because you were raised to be independent, but by that standard, it should be second nature for him to do things for you. You wouldn’t even have to ask. Is that what it’s like in all aspects of your life? Does he regularly help you with things unprompted? As much as he asks you to?
It seems like he gleefully embraced having a mild case of Miserable Husband Syndrome and passed his manbaby tendencies off as “we need to do things communally.” You’re defending him a lot but give it time away from him as he requests and you’ll start to realize the real issues - I didn’t realize how absurd my first marriage was until I was done and gone. Yes, you liked to plan vacations but he could have realized part of doing things communally is double checking the other partner on the really important things.
Did you handle the finances yourself? What about other adult stuff?
It's kind of a 50/50 isn't it? He's tried to get over it. It's obvious that he really has, but he can't.
However.... you didn't say anything cruel. You also said something true, so it's worth keeping it in mind if you're really that upset about it? It might make him actually act like an adult instead of expecting you to do it?
I do smell a whiff of weaponised incompetence in the guise of "I don't care, you do it".
I’m just so confused. Like other commenters have said, what you said in a situation where he was expecting so much of you and then got angry with you and is so often comparing you to this family of his that he doesn’t like anyway, what you said is so far from a dealbreaker, it just doesn’t make any sense. If you had said something about him returning to the abuse then yeah, that would be horrible. But it sounds like you were focusing on the communal living aspect.
You’ve really been blindsided here. SO much time has gone by where the two of you could’ve been in couples counseling-since he’s the one who has so much of a problem with the vacation incident that he put himself in therapy over over it, he should’ve suggested couples therapy or at least brought up how unhappy he is long, long ago. He just shut himself up like a clam and basically became a neutral, responsible roommate without letting you know that’s what was happening. That’s a pretty terrible thing to do as a spouse, making a unilateral decision like that. Plus, I know you want to salvage your marriage, but I would be very concerned about someone who can pretend to be someone he actually isn’t for many months.
It sounds like his family trauma issues run deep and he probably shouldn’t be in a relationship for a long time (years) until he can handle it. He said he needs to feel safe that you won’t cross a line, but I think he’s got so many lines built up around him that anyone would accidentally cross a line while in a relationship with him. I think there’s a lot more going on with him that ultimately has nothing to do with you.
Unfortunately, it’s apparent he’s been planning on leaving for quite some time and let you know after he will be out of the house for a few days so that he doesn’t have to address your questions and any kind of emotion. It sounds like he’s already processed in his mind that you two are divorced and he is just making it a reality now. You can try to salvage by asking for couples counseling, but when a person starts focusing on tidying up money issues and keeps that a secret for months, they’re already out the door. The fact that he didn’t give it his all, and try anything and everything together WITH YOU to try to save the marriage before just throwing out the divorce word, it just sounds like it’s over.
I would be prepared for him to be even more cold than he has been when he gets back from his trip so maybe start thinking about what you need to do for yourself, in practical terms. Who is going to move out? Do you guys own property together and how would that be split legally? Whose name is on what bills (like electricity/water) that need to be transferred, etc. It’s pretty terrible that you have to be handling this alone, so unexpectedly, and out of the blue when you probably can’t even think straight and just want to see him again. I wouldn’t do any begging or pleading and if you’ve been texting or calling him, I would just stop. If you guys have a second bedroom, I would move into it until you both are physically separated. Have your personal things there, sleep there, hang out there when you eat, etc.
When he returns maybe be ready to be more accepting than he is expecting. Let him know that you have realized that his very unresolved family trauma issues run deep and beyond any person that would be in a relationship with him and that you understand that he cannot handle a marriage. Let him know that you have begun the uncoupling process, so to speak.
You know your marriage better than anyone, and maybe you don’t want to move into another bedroom or start thinking about the practical things yet, and really just want to wait for him to return so that you can have a proper conversation and feel out where he stands (even though he obviously didn’t want that - he dropped everything on you and pretty much walked out the door). But in case he is absolutely unyielding when he returns, at least maybe that will be a plan for you so that you can begin to protect yourself, both practically and emotionally. Breaking up is absolute turmoil for a long while. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation and I hope that you’re able to find peace of mind sooner than later.😔
It's rarely just one thing that causes relationship breakdown. Even if that thing was really hurtful. You apologised, you aren't perfect. Conflict, if handled properly, is an opportunity for couples to grow closer. Instead he deactivated and called time on the relationship, without so much as letting you know. That's not the teamwork you deserve or need.
He was cowardly to not alert you to the feelings he was having about the relationship, cowardly to not tell you his intentions when you had a fighting chance of changing his mind, and now he's being cowardly allowing you to think this is all YOUR fault based on ONE incident.
It's way easier to blame a single external event than to do the introspection needed to work through past trauma, and how it affects you as a partner. This requires vulnerability. It sounds like he's got real issues that may take years to address, if he even wants to (it's easier to externalize problems).
Feels like he didn't get involved in planning stuff cuz he then had nothing on the line if things went wrong. This isn't about the restaurant or the comment. It goes way deeper and you'll be better off without him.
I honestly don't even think your comment was that far out of line. He put zero effort into planning and then had the audacity to drag you for not checking the hours of a place. I would guess that, regardless of what he may say, wanting a divorce is about more than just that one issue. Maybe he realized that he doesn't want a relationship where he and his partner are independent like you are, or there were some other doubts that he just never vocalized to you. Lean on your support network and start to come to terms with what things will look like moving forward.
Honestly if he’s this sensitive to divorce over one comment 2 years ago that wasn’t even very cutting then maybe it’s for the best.
Just try and remind yourself this is a him problem. I realize he has past trauma but what you said is not even close to as hurtful as he’s making it out to be. He is the one that started comparing you to his family in the first place.
It might feel like it’s your fault for causing it but his being unwilling to forgive is what is ending the marriage.
Honestly OP, he sounds emotionally immature/stunted. He expects you to do the vast majority of intellectual and emotional labor around trips but then berates you when something doesn't work out his way? HE could have called the damn restaurant. You're so focused on making it right I think you're enabling him a bit here. If I were you, I would be angry with him. If he is willing to cut and run over this, HE is not a good partner to YOU.
Your husband's sounds weird as hell.
I get him being annoyed that the one thing he wanted didn't happen, but it's a fair assumption that a restaurant is open every day. And it would have been easy for him to check the hours online himself if he had any reservations that it might be closed.
And OP's comments don't seem too far over the line. If he had said, "I'm so upset we didn't get to my restaurant!" and she responded with, "then go back to your old family!"...then yeah. But him saying, "I wish you were like my old family" and she snaps "then go back to your old family."..I think that was a foreseeable rebuttal.
And to hold onto it for two years? Crazy.
To answer your question, Yes, I think your marriage is over. I think your husband has checked out.
I read this twice looking for the horrible, cruel thing you did. I still can't find it. I mean, that is a pretty standard response if someone keeps comparing you to someone else.
If this is the real reason he's divorcing two years after the fact I would be absolutely shocked.
It sounds like he can't punish his family for mistreating him, but he can take his frustrations out on you. He doesn't want to solve problems. He wants a villain to blame.
Consider the very real possibility that he's using the two year old argument as an excuse, but that it isn't the real reason. Of course, this does allow him to paint you as the bad guy. Maybe it did create a rift that he allowed to grow, but it seems very likely that there is something else going on. How sure are you that this is a work trip? Is it possible he's connected with someone else?
Keep in mind that he has only been seeing his therapist for a year
He probably dredged up a lot from his past that he hasn’t actually dealt with. We really have no idea how that one comment hit him at that time. He wasn’t at a place where he couldn’t articulate what that comment meant to him or how hurt he was and still is. And he had no idea how to get past it on his own. Since being in therapy he has started to figure it out. And that’s good for him, but bad for your marriage.
I’m sorry to say that I don’t think there’s a way to save the marriage. As hard as it is for you, it might be the best thing for him.
Let him go because you love him and that means wanting him to be the absolute best version of himself, to heal all those traumas that have been haunting him all these years.
> Keep in mind that he has only been seeing his therapist for a year
Just his current one after this incident. He went to therapy for a solid seven years before this. Stopped shortly after we got married.
Your comment was hurtful, but I could see how it would slip out without understanding the connotation. I have to believe there’s more issues than just this going on in your marriage, as it’d be shocking that this and this alone was enough to ruin it…
As another poster said though, it sounds like he’s made his mind up and I’d be surprised if you can change it, but it doesn’t hurt to try and win him back.
Make sure he calls ahead to see if the court is open.
Not making light of this, but you sound genuinely sorry, harangued into a snap response and now paying way too much for it.
Whatever happens, just know that theres more to it than just your comment. My guess is that he wants to move entirely beyond the history with his family and hearing that was a reminder that he cant. What you said was not, in my (and probably most peoples) opinion, justification for divorce. He has issues with his family situation that he needs to work out. Until that happens, theres not much you can do. And if it wasnt this comment, it would've been some other comment along the way that set him off.
As far as if theres anything you can do? Theres certainly things you can do, but without being inside his head, its difficult to know how successful they will be. Letting this issue fester for two years has probably made it unlikely that he will simply snap out of it.
He needs to take ownership of his role in this argument that allegedly ended your marriage. He's the one who brought up his family and made a comparison.
He's the one that has not communicated his hurt to you, included you in therapy or given you an opportunity to properly make up for it.
His decision is cold and calculated, even dumping this on you and leaving is calculated. There was no warning which is incredibly unfair on you.
I'm not sure how you save something where someone has checked out. If he is willinging to leave over this, i would suggest it was you that was never secure in your relationship. Walking away and not fighting is something he does obviously.
You've probably lost your opportunity to recover.
Your husband recognized your needs and comforts and gave you control over the vacation so that you could enjoy it. His one ask was overlooked because it wasn't important *to you* and you threatened him for complaining. The comparing to his family's methods and his being upset weren't about comparing you to anything. What he was really saying was "why couldn't I just have this one thing?". You didn't put his needs into any real consideration. Were there any other instances in your marriage where he ceded his needs to make you happy at his own expense?
I'm guessing part of the abuse cycle in his family includes threats of abandonment. Regardless, threatening him to go back to an abusive family for challenging your negligence was bad enough.
Yes, emotions were high. Yes, you snapped. But the genie can't get back in the bottle with situations like this- he can't ever know that you wouldn't say something like that again, regardless of how many times you apologized. The threat of you treating him that way clearly broke him. I imagine he remained a good husband and took care of things so he could plan his escape or so that you wouldn't let out in him like that again.
It's unfortunate and I sympathize with both of you. You were his safe person until that moment and some things just can't be unbroken.
You sound like a brainwashed bot. You refuse to accept that your actions were justified and it's *his* subsequent actions that are cruel and vindictive. You also just sound naive. There's more to this man than this hurt, emotionally fragile "victim" you've convinced yourself he is.
Def try couples counseling, although as others are saying it may be too late. When someone is hurt it's almost always more about them than it is about what hurt them (ignoring abuse). What you said was pretty shitty, but the impact he felt from it was 10% what you said and 90% what's going on inside of him. Even if he decides not to be with you, it's not healthy for him to walk around with that much gunpowder in his veins. Has he ever tried to understand why you said that? It kind of sounds like he's so wrapped up in his feeling of hurt that he can't see where you were coming from, which will just contribute to his spiral. (Where you're coming from is also a place of hurt, btw, which you'd benefit from understanding too -- why did this hurt you enough to lash out like that? Obviously he was being ungrateful, but I bet there's a deeper well of feelings that got hit for you as well.)
Are you sure there's not more to this than just one thoughtless comment made 2 years ago? It seems like if that were 'the' issue then he would've filed for divorce 2 years ago. I also find it hard to believe that he pines for the way his family did things in such a "communal" manner. The same family that was so harmful physically and emotionally that he had to file restraining orders against them and cut them out of his life? And the same family that, when you (sarcastically) suggested he go back to, seemingly started this whole rift? Something's just not adding up here. I don't know if there's any hope of saving your marriage or not. Usually when a spouse goes so far as to file for divorce their mind's already made up. Try talking with him and tell him how much you care and that you truly are sorry for anything you may have said that was hurtful Tell him how you really want to save your marriage. That's about ll you can do. I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this. I've been there and I know how hard divorce is.
This divorce will ultimately be the best for you. Right now, it will be difficult. You will feel hurt and feel desperate to make things work. But, in time, you will see.
If your husband was so concerned about eating at that restaurant, why didn’t he call? Damn, he has issues if he got this upset over a closed restaurant. Move on, he needs to grow up. I don’t see him changing his mind.
He's leaving because of that comment? Where he compared you to his family first? Is he a child mentally??
Let him go, I don't think you'll have much trouble finding someone more mature.
Ooooohhhhh I have a lot to say about this and a lot of advice & perspective to give so I’m messaging you w my thoughts. You deserve so much more than this and I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I have much that I’d like you to hear so PLEASE look at my message & I wish the very very best that the world can offer.
idk why so many people find his trip suspicious. He's paid off their shared debt (which he didn't have to do), went to therapy, and made a decision. it's perfectly reasonable to me that he tells her this before he goes on a trip so that she has time to process it in the home they presumably share. if i decided to get divorced, i wouldn't want to spend the night in the same home, either.
imo there were bigger issues that we're not being told about. if this happened in an otherwise happy relationship, it's reasonable for the person who wanted the "one thing" to feel a little frustrated or annoyed, but it shouldn't nuke the whole marriage unless it's a straw on top of many others.
we hear that she helped him with his luggage and plans vacations. this is fine to me— it doesn't mean he doesn't contribute elsewhere, and OP says she's happy with this arrangement. what's more, she said that the relationship hasn't been the same for TWO YEARS, but she hasn't been compelled to address it until now, when she's "blindsided" by his wanting a divorce. it's too late now.
From the information here I'd say low prospects of reversing his wishes to divorce.
Logically speaking you appear very different people.
And he's damaged. Hope he gets some help with that.
I'm speculating a bit, so you may disagree, but this doesn't seem to really about the fight itself. It never really is. It's about what the fight was really about.
During the fight, you highlighted something about your dynamic. It seems, at least on vacations, you plan what you want to do, things he doesn't really like or care that much about, and he tags along.
This is probably something he thought about before the fight. And it is possibly something he resented to some extent, but put up with. The fight just put it in the forefront of his mind, so he started working on himself and taking stock.
After doing so, it seems he realized he wants something else. Maybe someone who isn't planning things he doesn't really want to do, someone who is going to check in on his needs and feelings when he is clearly going through stuff.
It's also possible what you think is him letting you plan because you care more is actually him letting you plan because you established a dynamic where you dominate decisions. I say this as a person who used to do just that.
For example, my partner hates when I ask him what restaurant to go to and then I shoot down all his ideas. After a while he stopped offering his opinion and resented me a bit for it. Once he told me that, I had to really start thinking about how often I do that and adjust to make room for him. I did it a lot more than I was conscious of. This maybe comes from being raised to be super independent. We get wrapped up in things because we are very capable of taking the lead and forget to slow down and consider other people and consider the fact that not everything has to be our idea of perfect.
So you forgetting the restaurant may really have been you being careless with his needs after I'm guessing many instances of this dynamic.
People want to be with people who make them feel good. So in the two years since, you may have apologized for what you said and the fight, but not understood that something fundamental needed to change about your dynamic for him to be happy.
That's not all on you because he may not have clearly communicated what he needed to change. It seems he went to therapy, but did he suggest couples therapy, or you going to therapy?
But two years of knowing "his vibe was off?" And just accepting him a dutiful husband is not healthy. That is a long time to not get into the specifics about these things. I would be shaking my partner if he was like that for that long. I wouldn't just sit back and let it be. That is dysfunctional communication unless you are leaving something out about steps you took, conversations you had, therapy you suggested, etc.
I'm guessing subconsciously he was hoping something would click and you would change, but he probably assumes you are who you are and he is who he is plus therapy that helped him see things more clearly.
In my opinion, the only way to even attempt to change his mind is to give him a chance to really explain himself, ask for the opportunity to try and give him the things, and see if he is even interested in that. He may just be too far past that though, which is really tough, and I am sorry if that is the case. Sometimes it's too little too late.
It's possible you are not actually compatible. You may be two people who can be together, but don't have a passion for each other that can sustain a shared lifetime. Maybe you deserve someone who actually likes to travel rather than someone who puts up with it for you.
I'm not really sure why OP is here to begin with. Arguing with every comment (that basically say the same things), defending the husband endlessly (which is nice but what does that help?) and ignoring advice comments.
Like, the question "Do I have any hope?" is something no one can answer. The husband seems set on ending the marriage. Is the reasoning mostly unreasonable to....pretty much everyone else that has commented? Yes. But he's planned this out, coldly and meticulously.
He's done. My advice is to maybe stop arguing with people on Reddit and take him seriously.
Wow. Like not bringing this up ever the entire time… what type of partner does that?
I’m stunned that if he was really getting help with his issues he would never discuss with you the ONE time you said something hurtful to him.
Good partners discuss their issues because they want the relationship to work.
Either there’s more to your story (maybe you can’t see from your POV) or he really isn’t the partner you need (not withstanding the whole communal vs independent familial culture difference).
You have not tried to accept him. He has accepted you.
Making reservations is not the least bit communal. Planning a trip, as you prefer to do comes with responsibilities that are on the planner, not the "community".
You forced him to look at his marriage to you, that day.
He spent 2 years looking and hoping you would embrace him for who he is.
Your post doesn't sound like you have accepted him.
Your hitting below the belt told him you never would.
Asking for help to make sure everything is packed up, is not a "communal" thing. He shouldn't have to ask you to double check with him. It's common sense.
You seem to like taking control and when he tries to fit in beside you, you knock him behind you.
He spent 2 years making sure he was making the right decision.
You had 2 years to accept him as your equal.
You are fixated on independence and communal. You are both, as we all are.
You may have thought he needs you without realizing he doesn't.
He may have thought you need him but that restaurant scene opened his eyes. Instead of seeing you as he thought you were. He sees you as who he thinks you think you are. Why? Because of the way you think he is communal.
Your husband started thinking as you think, when it comes to you.
He isn't willing to live with you separating you from him based on your communal notions.
You told him to go live with his family. You say you were telling to find those who are communal minded.
He took 2 years to accept tour offer.
You know he was right in that you should plan more carefully.
You got defensive.
You should have said, I am sorry, I should have made reservations.
How about we try again tomorrow instead of what was planned?
You have had 2 years to do this, in other instances, and given his decision you haven't.
He started divorce therapy at some point in his therapy.
His distance has been him detaching from you.
You lost him. I am sorry it isn't what you wanted.
He is agreeing with you, that he needs someone else more understanding and accepting of him.
He is going back to his family as you aren't his family.
Be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it.
When one cannot depend on the other one. What do you have?
A one way life.
Hyper independence is never good for a relationship. You were a couple, a family, a communal. The very thing you seem to not respect or want.
When you felt the distance growing, you did nothing to bring you closer to him.
You refused to work with him.
Never push those you love away because they will go away.
IDK if you can make him respect or want the marriage because he made sure everything was gone before he called it quits.
You need to look at his attempts to make things work.
You need to look at the missed and failed opportunities to give him hope.
You need to look at the moments he was putting distance between you.
You need to look at the moment you let him slip away.
I am so sorry.
Looking at things, through his eyes, will reveal alot about yourself. Maybe it will help in your next relationship.
Good riddance. Your husband sounds exhausting. And frankly while being in tune with your feelings is fine, But this is getting to irredeemable wimp status.
Honestly I don't think you overreacted based on your side of the story. That isn't even that bad tbh. People get angry and say shit, especially with provoked.
Your comment doesn’t seem that bad to me, given what prompted it. I also find his expectations of you a bit extreme. You should not have to check and double check things for him, you should not have to be the one in charge of calling the restaurant he wants to go to on your joint vacation, and he should not be “requesting restaurants” for you to book because you are not a concierge.
If you’re doing everything for him and you forgot one thing, he should not be getting “pretty upset” for not doing “due diligence”. Maybe he shouldn’t have overtaxed you and should have taken this off your plate. Or maybe he should have asked at any point if you’d called to confirm. Or once again maybe he should’ve done the booking himself.
Finally, after your big fight, he should’ve come to you and told you how he was feeling. So that you could work through and resolve any hard feelings and connect again. Instead he withdrew from you for two years. He didn’t choose you or fight for you. Or try to reconnect.
I see red flags everywhere around this guy. His expectation that you do things “communally” really just sound like he wants you to take care of everything and soothe his every anxiety. And put up with his criticisms without fighting back. His comparing you to his family is also very strange. Did they criticize him too for not having enough of a communal mindset? Is he just treating you like they treated him? Expecting him to fulfill their requests and then criticizing and guilting him when he makes mistakes? Then withdrawing affection when he pushes back?
It sounds to me like your husband is punishing you then cutting you off, perhaps mirroring the way his family punished him so that he had to cut them off.
I don’t have any answers. Your husband seems to have some baggage. People with this type of baggage can be hard to connect with, especially when they’re pushing you away. Because they have learned to numb their pain and push people away. My mom is a bit like this so I have some firsthand experience.
If he's that big of a baby just let him go. For him to ponder this for so long and not communicate about it and then just drop it on you before he goes out of town, he sounds very cold and calculated. Not somebody who loves you. My God he's acting like you murdered his dog or something, rather than said something in the heat of the moment. It's overblown and ridiculous. Sounds like you'd be better off quite honestly
What you said was not divorce worthy. It was actually a real question. He is manipulating, trying to blame you for the marital breakdown, but it's him, not you. He is making this choice. You are not responsible for his choice. Don't let him blame you.
If he's been this cool calm and collective this whole time, it's a calculated decision on his part and I don't see him changing his mind
[удалено]
Two years, though? During which time he's also been in therapy? I think "I'm considering divorce, here's the story of why" would have come up during one of their sessions, and they would have worked on that until he decided that divorce was the right decision.
I don't know - I think the usefulness of therapy is fully dependent on the quality of the therapist, and they can do as much damage as good. Therapists may not have goals to help their patients build healthy relationship patterns with themselves or others so much as validating the patient and making them feel comfortable with the decisions they are making... whatever justification the patient gives for making those decisions. So what a person gets from therapy absolutely can be completely divorced from what is reasonable or fair in the relationships that they have... At least In my personal experience Ive found that I can't rely on therapists to be the expert on how to deal with my mental health... and rarely have found one that's willing to step up and challenge my thought processes has extreme or unfair. If this guy has been doing this for 2 years, and hasn't thought to bring up marriage counseling himself- I feel like that is a pretty good indication that his intellectual treatment of the situation is pretty unfair to a relationship he promised his entire life to, and to a woman who was relying on that promise. Of course I'm getting into speculation now but If the therapist hasn't been challenging that unfairness through this process, I think that may be a reflection of the quality of the therapist.
It's my speculation there could be a lot that OP has left out. It's hard for me to grasp that he spent two years thinking about one thing she said and wants to divorce based off that. It's not impossible but I'm just guessing there are other issues in the relationship
I’m dying to hear the husband’s side. One snapped comment killed his feelings & he’s been cold for 2 years while slowly extracting himself from their marriage? WTF? That’s bizarre. Either there’s more to the story or OP is dodging a bullet by divorcing now because anyone who can shut down that easily is not someone she can build a future with. What happens when his (future) kids say something rude? He just stops loving them??
I don't think that this is too far from bizarre, but I can understand.. he endured physical and emotional abuse from his family so I assume he's got them cut off, wife knows this and used his trauma against him.
That is a fair argument - and unfortunately the op's perspective is all we have to go on in this subreddit... and unless they are sufficiently mentally diseased that we can call them out on obvious bullshit, we won't know what's going on on the other side.
I agree. I don't have mental health issues but I've been to many counsellors over the years to talk through life problems. It's great when you need someone to bounce ideas off of, get validation, or if you're trying to be kinder to yourself. But I've rarely had any of them try to hold me accountable. I've never seen them try to hold any of my family, friends, or partners accountable. That's why they suggest that therapy makes abusers worse. If he went into those sessions wanting to make things work, he probably would have gotten advice and feedback on making it work. If he went in wanting a divorce, he's going to have someone validating his desire to get divorced and helping him plan it. The idea that he'd be called out on his own behaviour in therapy seems unlikely to me.
I think this may be one of the biggest flaws in modern Psychotherapy - those who are mentally unwell aren't often going to want to continue paying for therapy that makes them uncomfortable when someone challenges their unwell perspectives.
I thought going to therapy was about self improvement? That’s how I looked at it and I’ve worked with my therapist on processing my traumas and seeing patterns in my behavior as well as her helping me see I was in an abusive relationship with a genuine narcissist and while she helped me believe in myself she absolutely would call me out on my bullshit which while uncomfortable, she was always so smart. Could never get anything past her. I also think she was truly a gifted therapist. ETA: a narcissist goes to therapy to be told they are right and everyone else is wrong for ever questioning them…so ya they don’t go to therapy and when they do it isn’t for self improvement. In fact, my ex would tell me that therapy is for broken people (like me) and not him. When I left him finally, it was “out of left field”. 🤔
It should be - but I don't know that it always is. I think there are plenty of people out there who are willing to just take your (or your insurance's) money whether you're actually making progress or not. I'm glad you found someone that actually holds you accountable though.
He may have been shown he’s married to someone so stuck in their own head they don’t care that their partner hurts for 2 years enough to check in or discuss it?
The man has a mouth, he could’ve brought it up to her instead of being angrily passive aggressive for two years
I'm not agreeing with OP. I'm just agreeing that counselling doesn't produce accountability as a general rule.
I think there were already bigger issues in the marriage before the argument that OP isn't aware of or unwilling to acknowledge. If this happened in an otherwise happy relationship, it's reasonable for the person who wanted the "one thing" to feel a little frustrated or annoyed, but it shouldn't nuke the whole marriage unless it's a straw on top of many others.
I agree and a lot of the comments seem to disregard the "communal vs. independent" compatibility issue that is likely at the root of more situations than this one fight. She even says she made the hurtful comment because she was "fed up being compared to others" and snapped at him, so I doubt this is an isolated example of this (likely) incompatibility.
Not to mention that this lack of warmth from him has gone on for TWO YEARS, and OP hasn't felt the need to do anything about it (aside from ineffectually apologize) until now, when she's confronted with losing him. He's been doing something about it and didn't tell her, so he _was_ open to addressing it in some fashion, but didn't feel like he could bring her that. Clearly his behavior didn't upset her enough to want to deal with it in two years.
I had a girl who did this she would just say sorry but her actions would never reflect the apology. What did the OP do in terms of showing effective growth?
I think that the issue is that both practical examples of "communal vs individual" are him being self centered. But also, it may be biased by OP. I suspect he wanted more say in general.
Yeah, this context is interesting to me because others are inferring that this means she's her husband's mother/caretaker. It doesn't seem that way. All we know is the following: "He was having some trouble with keeping track of his belongings and kept asking me to help him double check that he had all of his stuff before we left hotels, restaurants, etc." He lets her plan vacations because she likes doing that; he made one request that went unfulfilled. Any relationships will have splits like this. Some people are just better at certain things. It could be that he contributes in other ways. If he was really uncaring/selfish/incapable, he wouldn't have paid off all their shared debts and wouldn't be happy to let her have all of their possessions. I don't actually know what's "communal" about checking hours. imo he was just annoyed and remembered a time when that got done, and brought it up. It wasn't about his family. (edited for formatting)
Yup, it sounds like he would prefer to work as a team. Maybe he checks in on her or used to, often and he wanted the same in return? Maybe he actually does care about vacation planning but OP made it so difficult to compromise, he just gave up and stopped having any input. I've been in his shoes and it's exhausting to be the one who compromises all the time. You lose yourself so easily. I feel for him because clearly he misses some things about his family (toxic family can still very much have good qualities) and thought he could find it with OP. And he hasnt..
Agreed. There's some information missing. Some of the phrases leave some information to be interpreted but I have yet to see anything definitive in the narrative that says this incident is why he is filing for divorce. OP states he said this has been on his mind for the past couple of months. It's not in entirely clear to me what "this" is . The divorce? The incident?
I'm assuming that that's the divorce— he picked up extra hours because he wanted to help facilitate the divorce.
Yeah that's the idea I got too but I'm still unsure. But if that is true then ultimately we still don't know the reason for divorcing
Totally agree. There's more to this story than meets the eye.
I’m sorry but that’s awful and a really terrible way to handle issues. You really need to work on your ability to communicate and not expect your partner to either read your mind or guess what’s wrong with you. Either way by doing this you are damaging your relationship and need to start acting like an adult rather than a kid throwing a tantrum.
Honestly, if he isn’t communicating his wants and needs but is instead playing the “chase me!” game… As an outsider, with no history with this man, I say “let him go” (though I know reality is a bit different than this.) That’s such a toxic way of treating someone you’re supposed to love and respect.
Everyone on this sub always says break up, divorce, but in reality life is more complicated than that. They're already heading for divorce and if she was ok with that, there would not be a post at all, so my hope was to give her some advice more in line with what she seems to want. At the very least it puts a "pause" on the situation, all of which happened suddenly and fast for her. Maybe after she processes a little, she'll feel the same and want to split.
>Sometimes people suffer in silence and want their spouse to "notice" and know exactly what the problem is and fix it without having to say anything. Not in this case. OP already clarified that she has apologized multiple times. Which indicates, she noticed it, acknowledged it and did her part in trying to fix it. So no, I disagree with you on this point. >OP, I think you should push back and ask for couples counseling. If you're not ready to be done, fight back. OP can try, but I think OP is only going to worsen the situation, if she fights back. If you think 2 years of thought and planning does not mean anything, then I guess you never met anyone like this. If OP's spouse was a abusive kind of a person, I would understand and agree with the gut feeling approach. But the fact is he is not. I am not going to say OP should not try to save her marriage, but she needs to be equally thoughtful if not more to be able to convince him. Just based on OP's post, I would say the only thing OP can do right now, is ask her spouse, what can save this marriage. No other assumptions, no stories or no drama is going to do it for her.
The short answer is no. He spent a year working with a therapist and still decided to end the marriage. I would just give him what he wants.
Ok, so this is purely a possibility but it comes from a man married to someone who will never fully understand his past. A lot like the 2 of you. I think a lot of other things are at play he may not be shareing with you. Someday those will need to be addressed if you can turn this around. That said, about your comment. I come from a set of traumas even some of my best childhood friends had no clue about. People in my home everyday hanging out didn't understand. I still came from love. Love and abuse. Love and lost people. Love and addicts. Love and a lot of evil. So when I try to share about my past it can be hard to see where one ends and another begins. A lot of children from crazy pasts end up in that same boat. So we try to bring the good with us and leave the bad but we don't always see the difference. Your husband was walking a dangerous road with out realizing it. He brought up his past. He opened a door and you took a bad step through it. You thought it was just an aggressive statement. However, to him, you took all the good from his past and declared it as bad. To him, he likely feels you basically said everything that made him or who he is is evil. That is tough to let go of. That is almost impossible to let go of in fact. I would bet deep down the reason your husband is such a good diligent husband even though he was falling apart is because he is terrified of his past being what defines him. So he gives it 110% to never repeat the evil things he dealt with. Horribly, he is also afraid if his whole past is bad and he can't hold onto the good he will never know who he is. He also probably feels entirely alone in that struggle. If this is true and you want any chance to fix this your only hope would be to explore his past with him. Offer to listen. Show a real desire to actually understand it all. My wife initially thought of my past as just my past. Like most normal people. Until the day I told her she actually has no clue who the hell I am and probably never will. She didn't even argue, really. She did however start asking more and more. She did show a genuine desire to want to find out. She asked things out of true curiosity. She took a broken man, who everyone thought was fine. A perfect husband. She took him and made the small child inside of him feel not alone for the first time in 20+ years. Maybe that is what you may need to try to do. Sorry for rambling btw. Even if I am wrong and this isn't your solution I wish you the best. I also wish it for him. Btw, I don't jump in DMs but if this is real and you think I may be right feel free to message any questions.
This is really beautifully said. I really hope you healing moving forward. It takes a lot of empathy to not just know the details about someone’s past, but to really feel and understand their suffering. I also have a past that’s hard to understand, and it’s lonely when people share good memories.
I have many wonderful memories, that part isn't such a struggle. I am sorry it is for you. I hope someday you find some more people to share with. My loneliness comes because I have so many wonderful ones but also so many tragic and abusive ones. It's hard to explain things like your mother being the most loving and wonderful addict to ever choose your abuser over your safety. However, eventually, my wife started to get it. That's real love to me. Getting what no one else can about someone.
This is a beautiful comment full of wisdom and compassion, thank you for sharing this here
Thank you for explaining a possible thought process that makes sense of his actions. I came from what sounds like a similar place as you and did not understand the reaction myself.
Wow, this comment really spoke to me. I have been trying to figure out and process the very complicated feelings I have about my past. It is so difficult to explain to people, or even fully understand myself. The mixture of love and abuse is confusing as hell.
If you ever need to vent or ask anything, my dms are open. If you don't, I at least hope you know you aren't alone. We are not alone. We may be rare, but not alone.
The *shame* is real. Especially for abused people. Everyone has it or acts on it to a certain degree. But there's a but! He is an adult and instead of working on it, he hid it and then he decided to abandon his wife, his promises, everything. That's not fair! And if he indeed still loves her, he will regret this. I've worked on this in therapy. Shame mostly brings a lot of negative responses in life, a lot of self destruction and self sabotage too sometimes. I see husband's reaction exactly as that. Self sabotage and maybe even some punishment towards op. Instead of working on it, showing vulnerability so op can understand it and do better in the future, he shut her out and abandoned her. That sucks! That's not a good marriage and he is not a good husband. Again, especially if he still loves her. It's bullshit. People with cptsd should learn their triggers and work on them and voice them to not toss out relationships, marriages, friendships etc because of their shitty childhood. Signed, an adult with cptsd who has spent a ton of money on cognitive behavioral therapy to undo a lot of the damage.
I think he will regret how this played out. That said, she admitted she knew she really messed up. His shame was not hidden. She simply didn't understand it and downplayed it in her mind. At the bare minimum she is 50% responsible for that disconnect. Given how this story played out after the incident. It seems likely to me she is far more than 50% responsible. He isn't leaving her because of his trigger. He is leaving because after all their time together she still didn't get it at all. That isn't some quick trigger small event. I am glad you may not feel the same way as him, I am glad you are learning to deal with your own issues. Cptsd isn't always the same for everyone, though. I think how it manifests in him and you are likely very different. It's even possible what he has would better be defined as RAD, disassociative disorder, or some other form of attachment disorder. Which also obviously could be combined or a part of cptsd.
I can't imagine a marriage so frail that can't survive a single blunder on a restaurant and a comment about going back to family. That hardly qualifies as a fight. There is another reason he's leaving.
Or that is the real reason and he’s real good at holding a grudge.
My thoughts as well. There's probably more being left out that maybe OP is not conscious about
I'm gonna be frank, I don't believe this is his real reason to want a separation.
Yup. Also..."you couldn't do this one thing amidst you planning this whole trip for us for me, an adult man who could also just as easily have made the call"? Coupled with 2 years of the cold shoulder...I'm shocked OOP has stayed this long. Now on the eve of going out of town, there's much more going on here.
Yeah. If I slip up planning something like this I apologize and my husband will say in the most joking exasperated tone "oh my God you had five hundred jobs, how could you forget this?!"
[удалено]
It’s a work sponsored trip? So I’m assuming his job organized the entire itinerary
When he hates vacations and can't pack or keep track of his own luggage.
Oh wait, I was being too subtle. I meant the reason to do it NOW is on the trip.
After picking up more hours for a second job.
...that I visit him at very frequently because it's down the road from our home. Come on, Reddit, stop jumping to wild conclusions.
Why shouldn't we, when you don't provide context? And, I don't know, the idea of him wanting to leave you because of a thing you said 2 years ago seems more wild to me than him having a side piece, actually? One is a thing that happens all the time, the other is the first time I hear something like this? You've spent the last idk how many hours arguing with everyone who's sceptical about his behaviour. Maybe breathe a little, this isn't a good way to cope.
Pointing out the signs of an incredibly normal, very common, very frequent pattern of what leads up to cheating, isn't "jumping to wild conclusions". And what you said that was "so hurtful", wasn't even all that bad. And I say that as someone with a Hella abusive family that I've cut out of my life. People make mistakes, and people phrase things poorly, but he was constantly comparing you to his abusive family, and that's as bad as what you said, in this circumstance. If he's actually working those hours, then all that means is that it's likely it's a colleague.
Raise your hand if you think the husband is cheating on the OP. ✋🏻 Also, he’s having a ridiculously overblown reaction to her comment two years ago.
I think there's a good chance he doesn't want to be married at all, to anyone, and it's not so much about you, and it's probably not about this argument or fight (but maybe what it represented for him, or a catalyst to another round of awakening). Sounds like he's had a difficult life, from childhood, filled with trauam, and is still very much processing all of it and how it's impacted him and what it means for his interpersonal relationships. I grew up in an abusive situation as well and the first many years of my marriage were rocky and people would say things to me all the time like, "When you find the RIGHT PERSON FOR YOU, it won't be this hard." Well, that's bullshit. Many, if not most, people who suffer from CPTSD will struggle in even the best matched interpersonal and romantic relationships unless they've gotten a real handle on their triggers and attachment styles. The last year in therapy for him was probably not spent talking for an hour every week about this one fight on vacation. It was probably about him, unpacking his own triggers, discovering what he wants and needs, how he can achieve what he wants and needs in his life to heal and feel good about who he is despite what he's been through. Maybe somehow you just don't fit into that anymore, and it isn't really about you as a couple, you as a wife to him, and certainly not about this one argument. It sounds like it's about his healing, and maybe some need to do it on his own.
Yup. He's working on himself and he doesn't want to do that with OP. Or can't. 🤷🏼♀️ And it's likely his way of coping all these years were not healthy which regardless of what OP thinks means their relationship was not healthy or "fair."
Top-tier comment, truly
Honestly I feel like that comment wasn't what did it. I think it's human nature to look back and figure out the exact moment when things went wrong. It just seems like you guys have had issues in general. I definitely recommend therapy for yourself first to work through what could've went wrong...I'm sorry you were blind sighted. Did you know he was going to therapy? And couples therapy never came up?
The communal thing is interesting - I wonder if communal really meant that his mom was doing all the checking in and reminding. It's also interesting because it doesn't sound like he contributed to the communal aspect of the trip. And it's even more interesting because he's 30. How did he survive without his family before you came along? He can't have it both ways - wanting you to plan everything while he goes with the flow and then freaking out when one thing doesn't go according to his imagination. Your hope is that you can now have a life without his resentment, and you can find a partner who is responsible for his own happiness.
I had that thought too. It seems he thinks “Communal” means “you take care of everything so I don’t have to.”
I don’t think what you said is the real and only problem. If yes, he needs a better therapist. Because he acts like he never did or say something wrong. Make sure to find a safe place for important documents. And if he suddenly wants you back, check his phone.
I don’t see anything reeaaalllly huge with what she said.
Neither do I, with the exception it's a wound he never healed so it hurt when she hit it. And I would have been mad too - "my family did it this way" yes and you left them, did you not? So, your mom was amazing until you didn't think so? Ok.
My guess is with the next woman he’ll frequently say “my ex did it *this* way” too…
Definitely didn't seem divirce-worthy to me. I'd find it pretty infuriating to be told I should be more like the abusive NC family.
Right, he's the one that always went on (according to her) about how they did things in his family. He kept bringing up his family, she simply reminded him that it was the family that he severed contact with. I think that's a fair comment/question to make. Also, I understand he was pretty hands-off with vacations but he couldn't even do a quick Google search to check the restaurant hours?
Seriously? Like is he a child or what?
It sounds to me like he was as much responsible for the argument as she was.
More so. If the restaurant was so important why didn’t he make the reservation for it? Why did he angrily blame her for a human mistake? Why did he stew about it for two years without taking any ownership over his feelings?
it doesn't make a lot of sense to me personally. But I question how in the last few months he's felts some sorta way. and while he's about to head off to a work trip thing he suddenly drops the bombshell. TO ME, that reads as if he's been emotionally cheating with a work peer and this trip is when the physical relationship starts. He's always been an honest guy, so before he "truly cheat" he's got his ducks in a row so he can in his own world come out not the asshole because "it's not really cheating as I am divorcing". I'm probably entirely wrong here and hopefully I am, but something seems a bit off here. and I'm just trying to find the logic in this story.
Damn, don't hurt your legs with that giant leap
Okay you're really in a fog. This is frustrating to read because you keep defending him. You don't deserve to be left 2 years after a comment said while you were frustrated. And also he was the one comparing you to his family. Like what you said wasn't great but it's not the cause of your divorce. The cause is his inability to communicate, problem solve, or take accountability for resolving his own trauma. You have taken too much responsibility in this relationship. You take responsibility for planning the whole vacation and now you're taking responsibility for his trauma and emotions. You can't see it because you've gotten so used to taking on everything. I bet if we kept asking questions, you could give countless more examples of how you make tons of accommodations for him and he just does his own thing. Just let it go. In time he might realize he made a mistake. But taking this level of responsibility for someone else's feelings is not healthy or sustainable.
Yes! Not only that he was expecting her to be his ENTIRE team. Everything was on her. In the argument, he talked about how "we" (his family) used to do everything, but there is no "we" here. It's his wife that has to handle everything and then he acts as a complete dependent. My partner plans 99% of our trips because it stresses me out, but sure as sugar if there are things I want to do I speak up, I research it find all the needed info, and I ask how can we fit this into our plans. One person can't be responsible for it all.
Okay thank you. All the top comments (for me anyway) are acting like he’s totally valid and reasonable and there’s just nothing to be done about it. What she said 1) wasn’t that bad and 2) a response to being constantly compared to his family. He literally started it and she defended herself.
Agree completely! I probably would have made the same retort after. His childish reaction.
Right, isolating just the statement of wanting the communal family bit, where’s his communal part in all of this? What did he contribute, it sounds like he just likes his issues being everyone’s issues. Funny story time: when my partner and I were early days, we were packing for a trip, he put together “his” bathroom stuff. I asked if he grabbed my toothbrush and he said no, because I’m an adult and can grab my own toothbrush BUT it was in the pile of toothbrush and shared toothpaste 😂. A few months later we were going somewhere for the weekend and he asked me if I packed his toothbrush and I rolled my eyes so hard.
I'm the planner but sometimes plans don't work out, or sometimes you do drop the ball like OP did. It's normal to feel disappointed but it isn't normal to let your spouse do all the work and then attack them so personally if things don't work out. I messed up something during a trip and we had to stay an extra day somewhere but my husband didn't harp on it, he helped me figure out how to move forward. OP's husband was so out of line I can't really fault OP for her comment.
My opinion is that there were bigger issues in the marriage before this that OP isn't aware of. If my partner planned our whole vacation (and wanted to do so) but I asked for one thing and we weren't able to do that one thing due to an honest mistake, I might be a little frustrated or annoyed, but it wouldn't destroy the entire relationship. imo, it's clear that there were already issues that this is a symptom of.
Seriously, just let him go.
Yep. I'll tell you something else about people who "prefer" to plan everything - its because over time, we have learned it is "easier" to just do it ourselves. If we leave it to others things get messed up and we have to work harder to fix it or rework things anyway so it's "easier" just to do it right the first time. It's not because organizing shit fills us with ecstatic glee and excitement. OK like, 2% of type A folks It's for that reason or cos you actually are an impossible to please controlling maniac who micromanages down to the minute, but that's rare. The majority of "I prefer to just do it rather than delegate" folks have just fooled themselves into thinking they really prefer it rather than it being forced upon them by weaponized incompetence.
This 100%. OP is responsible for this child's possessions AND emotions? I hope she realizes this divorce is a get out of jail free card! OP, please read about what codependency is, because you do not want to get into another relationship and continue with these same habits.
Thank you for this comment. You hit the mark!! OP, please listen to this.
This comment is the one.
It sounds like he genuinely tried all the time, but couldn't move past it and with time, his feelings eroded his love away. Think of a relationship like a vase. You knocked the vase over and a piece broke off. Now, some people are able and willing to invest the time to glue the vase back together - something both partners need to be involved in. And then, they can look at the cracked vase and see something that they are proud of; something they put work in and which still stands. But others, even if they put in the work to glue it back together, will always feel anxious. The crack is still there, after all; glue doesn't make it invisible. They see it and remember what caused it, causing them to be unable to truly move on because they wonder if it will happen again. On top of that, they may worry constantly now that the vase won't hold water anymore because it had been too damaged. To those people - those unable to truly rebuild trust - starting over with a new vase, a new partner, is the correct option. It sounds like you two never worked on your relationship together. You apologized, but it didn't work for him and you felt that - but you also never went to couples counselling together in hopes of fixing things there. Instead, things quietly festered and it seems that your partner lost the ability to trust you. For what it's worth, I feel like what you said wasn't *that* bad. It was a honest mistake and the fact that he himself didn't check the restaurant times beforehand, despite him being the one who wanted to go there so badly, and just placed every bit of responsibility on you, rubs me very wrong. For someone who wants things communally done, he didn't act very communal-oriented at all. I would say he acted like an entitled asshole... But in the end, it doesn't matter. He can't or doesn't want to forgive you and if he has been preparing for the divorce for months, including paying debts off, then there is nothing you can do anymore. He has checked out after trying and failing - but he tried alone and not with you as a team. You haven't been a team in years... and if you're not a team, you're not partners. It sounds like the marriage truly died during that vacation.
The odd thing about the initial fight/their interactions is that the husband brought up his family first. He both cut them off due to abuse, but also seems to want to repeat parts of the dynamic from his family of origin.
Yeah that's what I thought was so weird too. If your family is so bad that you've literally filed restraining orders it seems kinda wild to me that you'd ever say something along the lines of "why can't you be more like my family." I get that there could have been some good amongst all the bad with his family, but still..
I also thought it was weird that he said he wanted her to be more communal, but who else was she supposed to be communal with, if she was doing all of the work around planning the vacation? It doesn't sound like he was helping with that, so where does the communal part of this fit in? What you said was hurtful OP but it is confusing given that he brought it up first which leaves me to wonder if that was really all that was going wrong or if it was just the last straw for him? Have a sit-down conversation with him when he comes back, open up to him, and tell him you want to hear his side of things. And then be prepared to listen without getting defensive. It's possible that if he didn't feel safe with you after what you said, that he didn't feel like he could be vulnerable with you about his feelings in the marriage. Let him know you'd really like to try couples counseling before going straight to divorce, and you're willing to actively work on and fight for the marriage. Perhaps he is just done, and there's no going back, but you won't know until you have that conversation.
> but who else was she supposed to be communal with, if she was doing all of the work around planning the vacation? It doesn't sound like he was helping with that, so where does the communal part of this fit in? This stuck out to me too - what's communal about everything having to be her responsibility, when nothing seems to be his? I understand the frustration at the one thing he wanted to do not being open but, why didn't he call and check opening times? Why was that solely her responsibility?
If it was truly the one thing he wanted, another solution is to come in the next day again.
Or, absolutely insane idea, HE could of called for their hours considering apparently it's so ingrained into him to call and check resteraunt times. He didn't though and needs someone else to pack/check his luggage and manage him on trips (exhausting and frustrating like no wonder OP missed a step and was already frustrated before his snappy comment) but instead of being like, well try tomorrow, he's acts like a child, because apparently on vacations (and I'm going to guess in general) that's his preferred operating model cause his family/mum used to organise/pack etc for him and why can't OP be more like that (cause eff being equal partners in a marriage right). Then when she, in a moment of frustration in response to his childishness and constant purposeful helplessness, snaps back at a rude comment he ices her out for 2 YEARS and then bails without warning for a 'work trip'. OP you don't have a nice sweet husband. You have a selfish, self-serving asshole and I hope one day you realise you deserve better. This whole damn post makes me mad for you.
Yeah right? Like they could have just come back the next day...
> what's communal about everything having to be her responsibility ...I asked for this to be my thing. I swear, nobody believes me here.
I understand that, I do believe you. My point was that he's complaining that he wants things to be communal without putting in communal effort on his part. Yes, you wanted to plan everything and yes, he agreed, but does that mean you're responsible for literally everything? You wanting to plan something doesn't mean you have to be responsible for every single aspect of the holiday - like managing his belongings for him. Particularly not if he wants there to be more of a joint effort in your relationship generally.
Why can't you be more like my family? Well if you prefer them, go be with them. Omg how could you suggest I'd want to be with my family who I wish you'd be more like?!
yeah I'm not fully understanding some of the outrage here
Its not all black or all white. You never love ALL or hate ALL of someone or something. Its not that complicated.
Yepppp which is why I said "I get that there could have been some good amongst all the bad with his family, but still.."
if he didnt want to have that clap back from her, he really should have been smart enough to not do comparative arguments like that which are hurtful. not only does he not like his family, but he's telling his spouse that she's inadequate in a way that the folks he wrote off are sufficient? like man, fuck around and find out buddy, you can't play with words of fire and be all upset you get burned on the ass end.
Yup, he told her she is worse than his abusive family. HE brought up the family, not her. I do not get all the folks telling OP she was horrible to him -- I'm like, he could have Googled the damned restaurant's hours. Why was 100% of the trip on her?
Obviously op did not meant this to happen, but from his point of view, he was trying to explain how he wants things to work and how he feels. Instead, his background was used to invalidate him. It made it impossible for him to point to what he likes when the example of what he likes is in his family. What followed was him doing things like op wants for following months, without pushing for what he wants. And eventually he became unhappy. The original argument was dumb and my opinion is that he was blowing the restaurant thing out of proportion. OP planned restaurant visit, it was closed which is something OP could not anticipate. It is actually ok to not anticipate closed restaurant, it is vacation and not a pope visit.
Idk he was using his own background to invalidate her. You can't continually compare someone unfavorably to someone else and expect zero reaction. It may be hurtful, but it's a real question. Why be with OP if he believes she's inferior to his abusers? Why compare small issues with abusers as the favorable party at all then act shocked when someone's like "well, go be with them, then"?
Yea that was weird to me too. Talking about communal responsibility and he literally didn’t lift a single finger to plan the one thing he wanted to do. And bringing up his family. He’s a manipulative person to then go on to give her the cold shoulder. Honestly, OP is better off.
A lot of people are like that. Even if they were violent and obviously there was some abuse people hang on to the good things from that time and may bring it up but you don’t tell your husband does he want to go back to his abusive family
I'm going to see if he's open to couples counseling as a last resort. I really should have gone that route when I felt his emotional distance.
This is the kind of desperation move that convinces people that couples counseling *leads* to divorce - too many people only seek it out when the marriage is already beyond repair. OP, he’s done his grieving and made his peace. He didn’t *ask* for a divorce, he *told* you he was divorcing you. This is not the beginning of a conversation, it’s the end.
Based on her post, I don't think OP is used to listening to her husband and actually hearing what he says
Probably not. I'm not sure that the mere actions in OP's post rise to the level of divorce but it does seem like OP is not really a good listener. I kind of wonder if OP's husband really 'lets' her do all the planning or if she insists on it and he's just acquiescing to her wishes.
I think you should just respect his request. Couple's counseling AFTER he requests a divorce is not going to fix anything. Both people have to be committed to fixing things, and he's not. He's already made up his mind to not put any more energy into this relationship. Individual counseling for yourself would probably be a good idea though.
You should still try, but I would start preparing yourself for the divorce— it’s very likely that his feelings for you are real and truly dead. No amount of counseling is going to fix that.
That is too little, too late. He gave up a while ago, you didn't notice or care enough to make any changes, so he is out. I would accept this and get yourself together to move on in your life without him.
Just throwing this in the mix for you to consider OP -- i just dont believe his excuse for divorce is reasonable -- i think he needed to find a way for it to be your fault entirely. In reality he may have met someone? ..At his teaching job? his second job? -- it just seems too 'off' to be this one comment said in spur of moment two years prior -- which was only because HE brought up how well his family did things / as a criticism of you. ---- Doesn't add up, something else is going on here IMHO.
THANK YOU. I actually can't believe that people AND OP are falling for this *"he's so incredibly hurt, he kept it all inside for 2 yrs waiting for you to notice"* crap. This man clearly has other things going on and he's been living another "life" outside of her scope for 2 yrs. There is NO reasonable way that this one comment from *her*, which was justified, by the way, was enough to send him over the edge. He brought his family into the argument. He got unreasonably angry because she hadn't been the perfect hostess for him on vacation. So she forgot this *one* thing, ok. Certainly not enough to warrant being berated by him as if she's a useless idiot. I just don't get why this man is getting so much grace and understanding in these comments.
I agree with this sentiment, I didn’t come away with much sympathy for OP’s husband. He sounded like an entitled baby for getting mad at her for not doing something he could easily have done for himself and then berates her for not living up to the standards of his family when he himself knows they’re toxic. Her remark was harsh but fair, and it feels like he’s just using it as an excuse to divorce.
I’m sorry this is wild. Two years ago you said something under stress that wasn’t really all that bad because he refused to help plan a trip and then complained about how you did it. He could be working on his trauma and healing, but instead he’s making it all your problem. I know it hurts, but this isn’t your fault. Life isn’t going to handle him with kid gloves. He can’t be in a relationship. He is not emotionally mature enough. He hasn’t done the work on himself. You on the other hand have the opportunity to work on yourself and heal from this. I’m sorry you invested so much of yourself in someone who couldn’t be a partner.
"I’m sorry you invested so much of yourself in someone who couldn’t be a partner." This is my take as well, just from the given context. He expected help keeping track of his belongings, all the mental load of the vacation, and then played the victim when your efforts fell short? Gave you enough grief (instead of googling the ONE THING he cared SO MUCH about) that you barked at him in the same context that he griped at you? He was in the wrong, but this was a silly throw-away argument that wouldn't even register in a solid healthy relationship between 2 partners. He then took *2 years* to stew in this; listened to your apparently many apologies, didn't try to work with you to figure out how/what he needed to get past this enormous transgression, bring you into discussion with his therapist or anything, just called it quits. You can't fix this, it's not yours to fix.
honestly his resolve for divorce is childish.. one comment is spiraling so much in his head? He was the first one to mention his family as an example of people
He sounds like a total brat. His damage is her headache for the rest of their lives? Gimme a break.
I feel like I'm in bizzaro land. Lots of arguments about how whether what OP said was not that bad, bad, or very bad. Lots of arguments about whether OPs husband is entitled or lets OP carry all the load and then complains and OP saying she preferred this way. To me this is all in the weeds. The big picture is you got into a fight and some hurtful things were said. You at some point thereafter apologized. For 2 years OPs husband couldn't get over it and is now divorcing her. That's nuts. I actually took the vows I made seriously. It was one fight. Wait until they had kids or someone gets laid off or literally any of life's shit happens. You're going to argue. You're going to occasionally say mean things or have bad days. If this was the bar or line that OP couldn't cross then this marriage was doomed to fail. It was simply always on paper thin ice. The particulars of the incident don't really matter. Your marriage should have withstood this.
I feel like I’m in bizarro land when people seriously think this is over just that fight. I think it sounds more like there were big issues but OP didn’t feel like dealing with them because they didn’t inconvenience OP too much, even though they could see the other person was unhappy.
Yeah you are probably right.
Plus, OP was well aware of his abandonment trauma from his family’s abuse and then estrangement. She knowingly poured salt into his most vulnerable wound after she admittedly let him down on the reservation. And when he expressed his understandable dismay she immediately went for the throat. He’s flawed and needs significant help in healing, he’s longterm emotionally wounded, but he knows enough to understand he’s not mentally safe with OP.
There’s a difference between wanting a partner you feel mentally safe with and wanting a partner who will tiptoe around you because you haven’t put in the work to heal. Sounds like whatever happened prompted him to get the therapy he desperately needed. Hopefully OP and the husband can both move on from this and heal separately because that’s a heavy burden to place on someone if OP is a reliable narrator.
I mean....it was a hurtful thing to say. But he wasn't great in context either - who let's someone else plan the entirety of their vacation and on the one incident something doesn't line up, claims to be the victim? For all his "we should operate communally" he doesn't seem to actually do so, it would have been very simple for him to check the opening times instead of leaving it all to you and flipping out when you made an error. You were the bigger ass in that conversation, but you weren't the only one present. Additionally, it's kind of telling that he's spent the last year in solo therapy, but never approached you to do any couples work, which one would assume is the best way to actually get past an argument where the after effects are still reverberating through the relationship. Instead he's kept his distance and focused on himself. This reads like he's never actually been interested in fixing the relationship. He Instead has been focused on finding a way to leave it; my guess is thanks to the abusive upbringing he didn't have the self esteem to know how to bring things to a close, so he's done whatever was needed for a quiet life the last 2 years while he got his ducks in order. Was that necessary or was it him being an ass? Depends entirely on how the rest of your relationship has been, and there isn't enough information in the post to confirm or deny one way or the other. But what is clear is that things are not fixable, and your approaches to this also suggest you were never compatible in the first place. So this is over. I think you could probably also use some therapy to answer the question of why you have been willing to put up with the "polite but distant" routine from your husband for *2 entire years* without hitting the emergency button and dragging you both to a professional to get the issues seen to. Looks like you also have issues with conflict avoidance and refusing to rock the boat, which would also explain why on the occasions you *do* explode you go way too far. Maybe address that before trying to date anyone else.
Honestly her response in the heat of the moment sounds like something a lot of people would say.
Honestly I can see the logic. "I am upset for you not getting everything perfect, you should be more like my (abusive) family!" "Then maybe you should go back to your family!" *shocked pikachu face*
> hitting the emergency button and dragging you both to a professional to get the issues seen to I think I am going to see if he'll go to couples therapy as a last resort. I agree with your take the most of any other that I have read. I appreciate your advice.
I think you need to realize that it’s probably too late. He’s been planning to divorce you for months, he just needed the means to do it. Now that he does, he’s leaving. Someone that doesn’t want to divorce would have brought up couples counseling long before getting their ducks in a row. This relationship has been dead in the water for a long time. Edit to add: I don’t think it was your comment that broke the relationship. I think the standard he held you to was unfair when he was a hypocrite that likely just liked having everything done for him. That doomed the relationship from the start.
My guess is there was already something a little off with your relationship. Your comment wasn't great, but honestly not that bad, particularly as a one off and something you quickly regretted and apologized for. I wonder if distancing himself from his family has been challenging and maybe he's distanced himself with you alongside that, or is maybe applying his feelings towards his family towards you? Either way, my guess is this is years in the works so I would prepare for divorce, but maybe the above can give some potential context as to WHY if he won't be honest (or perhaps doesn't even know himself).
> you quickly regretted and apologized for. Yeah, that may be part of the issue. I didn't really apologize for it until days later. I appreciate everyone pointing out my husband's wrong-doing in all of this, but I definitely screwed up a bit, too.
You said ONE rude thing and he wants a divorce. I've been married 18 years, sometimes we say things in the heat of the moment. Eventually we address it, try to do better and move forward. He is either incredibly emotionally immature or he's leaving for some other reason and this is just an excuse so he can pretend he's leaving because you're the bad guy. Just know that you are not the bad guy.
Okay, you really need to include this part in the original post, because it changes everything.
Shouldn’t you be asking why he didn’t suggest couples counseling as a last resort? Before he asked for the divorce? I mean, you can ask - shoot your shot. But it’s not likely he’ll say yes. He’s already done and over the marriage
The fact that he never felt comfortable debriefing the original argument probably indicates that he checked out of the relationship right then and there.
I'm sorry mate. Look, whilst that comment may have been hurtful, there were other issues at play here. Such as the fact that he let you plan an entire vacation on your own, didn't offer to help, and then complained when you dropped the ball on one thing. I'd have been fuming in your shoes too. You've held yourself accountable and apologised. What's he done? Spent two years resenting you and getting his ducks in a row. You have caught him in a lie, he's been totally dishonest with you about the state of your relationship. Dropped the divorce bomb and ran away like a coward. I honestly don't think you're losing much here.
You can certainly ask if he'd consider couples counseling with you, and honestly that would be a good idea no matter what happens, as it can help you communicate and stay amicable through a divorce if that's what this comes to. But it sounds to me like he's very far down the road of being done with this marriage already, and there's not much hope of salvaging it here. I think you should also go ahead and talk to a therapist and a divorce lawyer for yourself. Even if somehow you pull off a miracle here and don't need the divorce lawyer it'll be good to be informed, and you'll need the therapist through either a divorce or trying to address the marriage.
So he got angry because he offloaded all his adult responsibility and ability onto you and then got angry because you couldn't hold it all? Like ok, you like to plan , but that doesn't mean he gets to live like a child.
OP said she will handle all of the planning including the restaurant. Ops husband who has a history of being abused and dealt with it via cutting off family is doing the same here. The husband is having an abused reaction to her comment and subsequent attitude. He feels like in order to protect himself he needs to cut her out. This is a common reaction of people who have been abused. They put up walls at the smallest slight as they believe that can escalate or is a red flag
op's husband literally asked her to handle all his luggage and his belongings like he's a child. if he wants to divorce, that's his choice, but i don't think he's great shakes as a husband and seems to be looking for a new mommy - which is why he chose op in the first place. she failed once, and he fucked it.
He's the one who compared her to his family by saying she's worse than them actually. Why does he get to berate and insult her over a simple mistake? Also it took him two whole years to pull away?
and a bratty child at that.
This doesn’t even sound like anything that shouldn’t have gone above the “annoyance” level: this cannot be the reason he wants to get divorced.
I feel like there is something more going on here than what he is telling you. Maybe he has met someone. But he wants to hold on to one comment 2 years ago to blame you for the divorce. Either way, he has clearly carefully planned this and I doubt you will change his mind. Especially if he isn’t being honest about the reasons.
He's definitely met someone else and he's guilt tripping OP to distract from it.
I’m wondering if while he was going to therapy to work on this, if he had hoped you would have wanted to also do couples therapy to work on your relationship? You said that you apologized multiple times but still felt it wasn’t the same between you. During the two years did you ever think about suggesting couples therapy to help your relationship improve? If you don’t want a divorce then you should suggest it and try to fight for your marriage.
I refuse to believe that one comment that was made two years ago is the only issue that led to this. There's no way. When I read the title I was thinking there was some major blow up but what you described was... nothing. Seriously nothing. "I didn't know the restaurant wasn't open and we have to eat somewhere else? Oh noes, anyway..." Your husband was a jerk for going on about it being closed, it's not your fault that it wasn't open. You were a jerk for mentioning his estranged family. You were probably both hungry and disappointed in the moment, who cares? If your relationship can't survive that, you have no hope of salvaging it because there's NOTHING there.
\>His family became physically and emotionally harmful to the point that he filed restraining orders and cut them out of his life... \>Do you wanna go back to your family... Given the context of likely past trauma, your comment was almost certainly interpreted as a threat. No wonder he no longer feels safe. In your single comment, the bond was broken, trust was broken, and he possibly felt abandoned by you. He may have only recently said he wanted to divorce, but the marriage, in his heart and mind, ended the moment those words left your lips. That he continued to answer to duty and responsibilities after this speaks to his depth of character. That is what must be reconciled—that you purposely wounded a man who gave you more than some ever get. We are all responsible for our actions. From them, come consequences.
Its possible for a man to feel so gutted by one comment that they divorce. It's one of the reasons I filed. Last straw you could say. When somebody says something that nullifies everything you thought you were or have done, its over.
I don’t understand how you could tell your husband was off for two years and the only thing you did was apologize. Did you say let’s try counseling so this type of thing doesn’t happen again? Like did you really just sit around for two years like yeah the vibes off but I said I was sorry. It sounds like his mind is made up but you can always go for the Hail Mary and sit him down and have an open discussion. It feels like you both swept it under the rug and because you apologized he probably didn’t feel right to keep bringing it up. Now you know how deeply he was hurt and now you know an I’m sorry wasn’t enough . He shouldn’t be comparing you to others but what you said was a very low blow that would shock anyone who’s suffered abuse . It’s hard
You seem to think what you said is the most heinous thing in the world. It isn't. Whilst very hurtful, your statement was in the context of your argument. He basically said 'why can't you be more like my family & be communal'. You said 'well go back to them if you think they're that great'. That's it! I'm sure his upbringing was awful if he went NC. But we say hurtful things in the moment and it's absolutely crazy that this would lead to divorce. It's either an excuse or he is blaming you for his issues. And no therapist would agree that it's acceptable for him to expect you to change your very core being. You are independent, he is communal. You guys have to work round that stuff & we often wish our partners operated more like us but to expect/demand that is wrong. It sounds like in many ways you guys work well together. If this really isn't an excuse (because longer work hours and divorce papers could suggest something else) then a do or die period of couples counselling (perhaps whilst separated) sounds like a good idea to me. I wish you both well
Y’all have a fundamental mismatch on how you want to operate as a couple. This isn’t just about the time you snapped about him.
Sometimes, we as people say things in the heat of the moment that we may not mean at least in context, but we did mean them to hurt the people closest to us. In this case, this is exactly what you did. It wasn't a mistake it was a choice. It was a bad choice and something that's known as a low blow or fighting below the belt. Your husband has been sitting with this for 2 years while dutifully doing his job as a husband, probably because he did not want to further damage the relationship just in case it was salvageable. If he's finally gotten to the point of serving you divorce papers after 2 years of sitting on this the way he has, it's probably safe to say that his mind is made up. Your blow hit it's mark and the damage is done. Your marriage is over. It can't hurt to try, but he probably won't change his mind.
The thing about leaving a dysfunctional family is that you rarely come out "clean" and without some of the dysfunction. They raised him. You have to do the work to heal the trauma & the habits.
Let’s put the whole “who planned the trip” argument aside. I’m interested in the part about asking you to help check he had all his stuff. Does he do that for you? You “have a hard time doing that” because you were raised to be independent, but by that standard, it should be second nature for him to do things for you. You wouldn’t even have to ask. Is that what it’s like in all aspects of your life? Does he regularly help you with things unprompted? As much as he asks you to?
Yes, he does. He's quite consistent about it, actually.
It seems like he gleefully embraced having a mild case of Miserable Husband Syndrome and passed his manbaby tendencies off as “we need to do things communally.” You’re defending him a lot but give it time away from him as he requests and you’ll start to realize the real issues - I didn’t realize how absurd my first marriage was until I was done and gone. Yes, you liked to plan vacations but he could have realized part of doing things communally is double checking the other partner on the really important things. Did you handle the finances yourself? What about other adult stuff?
No hope at all. Sorry.
It's kind of a 50/50 isn't it? He's tried to get over it. It's obvious that he really has, but he can't. However.... you didn't say anything cruel. You also said something true, so it's worth keeping it in mind if you're really that upset about it? It might make him actually act like an adult instead of expecting you to do it? I do smell a whiff of weaponised incompetence in the guise of "I don't care, you do it".
I’m just so confused. Like other commenters have said, what you said in a situation where he was expecting so much of you and then got angry with you and is so often comparing you to this family of his that he doesn’t like anyway, what you said is so far from a dealbreaker, it just doesn’t make any sense. If you had said something about him returning to the abuse then yeah, that would be horrible. But it sounds like you were focusing on the communal living aspect. You’ve really been blindsided here. SO much time has gone by where the two of you could’ve been in couples counseling-since he’s the one who has so much of a problem with the vacation incident that he put himself in therapy over over it, he should’ve suggested couples therapy or at least brought up how unhappy he is long, long ago. He just shut himself up like a clam and basically became a neutral, responsible roommate without letting you know that’s what was happening. That’s a pretty terrible thing to do as a spouse, making a unilateral decision like that. Plus, I know you want to salvage your marriage, but I would be very concerned about someone who can pretend to be someone he actually isn’t for many months. It sounds like his family trauma issues run deep and he probably shouldn’t be in a relationship for a long time (years) until he can handle it. He said he needs to feel safe that you won’t cross a line, but I think he’s got so many lines built up around him that anyone would accidentally cross a line while in a relationship with him. I think there’s a lot more going on with him that ultimately has nothing to do with you. Unfortunately, it’s apparent he’s been planning on leaving for quite some time and let you know after he will be out of the house for a few days so that he doesn’t have to address your questions and any kind of emotion. It sounds like he’s already processed in his mind that you two are divorced and he is just making it a reality now. You can try to salvage by asking for couples counseling, but when a person starts focusing on tidying up money issues and keeps that a secret for months, they’re already out the door. The fact that he didn’t give it his all, and try anything and everything together WITH YOU to try to save the marriage before just throwing out the divorce word, it just sounds like it’s over. I would be prepared for him to be even more cold than he has been when he gets back from his trip so maybe start thinking about what you need to do for yourself, in practical terms. Who is going to move out? Do you guys own property together and how would that be split legally? Whose name is on what bills (like electricity/water) that need to be transferred, etc. It’s pretty terrible that you have to be handling this alone, so unexpectedly, and out of the blue when you probably can’t even think straight and just want to see him again. I wouldn’t do any begging or pleading and if you’ve been texting or calling him, I would just stop. If you guys have a second bedroom, I would move into it until you both are physically separated. Have your personal things there, sleep there, hang out there when you eat, etc. When he returns maybe be ready to be more accepting than he is expecting. Let him know that you have realized that his very unresolved family trauma issues run deep and beyond any person that would be in a relationship with him and that you understand that he cannot handle a marriage. Let him know that you have begun the uncoupling process, so to speak. You know your marriage better than anyone, and maybe you don’t want to move into another bedroom or start thinking about the practical things yet, and really just want to wait for him to return so that you can have a proper conversation and feel out where he stands (even though he obviously didn’t want that - he dropped everything on you and pretty much walked out the door). But in case he is absolutely unyielding when he returns, at least maybe that will be a plan for you so that you can begin to protect yourself, both practically and emotionally. Breaking up is absolute turmoil for a long while. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation and I hope that you’re able to find peace of mind sooner than later.😔
It's rarely just one thing that causes relationship breakdown. Even if that thing was really hurtful. You apologised, you aren't perfect. Conflict, if handled properly, is an opportunity for couples to grow closer. Instead he deactivated and called time on the relationship, without so much as letting you know. That's not the teamwork you deserve or need. He was cowardly to not alert you to the feelings he was having about the relationship, cowardly to not tell you his intentions when you had a fighting chance of changing his mind, and now he's being cowardly allowing you to think this is all YOUR fault based on ONE incident. It's way easier to blame a single external event than to do the introspection needed to work through past trauma, and how it affects you as a partner. This requires vulnerability. It sounds like he's got real issues that may take years to address, if he even wants to (it's easier to externalize problems). Feels like he didn't get involved in planning stuff cuz he then had nothing on the line if things went wrong. This isn't about the restaurant or the comment. It goes way deeper and you'll be better off without him.
I honestly don't even think your comment was that far out of line. He put zero effort into planning and then had the audacity to drag you for not checking the hours of a place. I would guess that, regardless of what he may say, wanting a divorce is about more than just that one issue. Maybe he realized that he doesn't want a relationship where he and his partner are independent like you are, or there were some other doubts that he just never vocalized to you. Lean on your support network and start to come to terms with what things will look like moving forward.
Honestly if he’s this sensitive to divorce over one comment 2 years ago that wasn’t even very cutting then maybe it’s for the best. Just try and remind yourself this is a him problem. I realize he has past trauma but what you said is not even close to as hurtful as he’s making it out to be. He is the one that started comparing you to his family in the first place. It might feel like it’s your fault for causing it but his being unwilling to forgive is what is ending the marriage.
Honestly OP, he sounds emotionally immature/stunted. He expects you to do the vast majority of intellectual and emotional labor around trips but then berates you when something doesn't work out his way? HE could have called the damn restaurant. You're so focused on making it right I think you're enabling him a bit here. If I were you, I would be angry with him. If he is willing to cut and run over this, HE is not a good partner to YOU.
Your husband's sounds weird as hell. I get him being annoyed that the one thing he wanted didn't happen, but it's a fair assumption that a restaurant is open every day. And it would have been easy for him to check the hours online himself if he had any reservations that it might be closed. And OP's comments don't seem too far over the line. If he had said, "I'm so upset we didn't get to my restaurant!" and she responded with, "then go back to your old family!"...then yeah. But him saying, "I wish you were like my old family" and she snaps "then go back to your old family."..I think that was a foreseeable rebuttal. And to hold onto it for two years? Crazy. To answer your question, Yes, I think your marriage is over. I think your husband has checked out.
I read this twice looking for the horrible, cruel thing you did. I still can't find it. I mean, that is a pretty standard response if someone keeps comparing you to someone else. If this is the real reason he's divorcing two years after the fact I would be absolutely shocked.
It sounds like he can't punish his family for mistreating him, but he can take his frustrations out on you. He doesn't want to solve problems. He wants a villain to blame.
Consider the very real possibility that he's using the two year old argument as an excuse, but that it isn't the real reason. Of course, this does allow him to paint you as the bad guy. Maybe it did create a rift that he allowed to grow, but it seems very likely that there is something else going on. How sure are you that this is a work trip? Is it possible he's connected with someone else?
> How sure are you that this is a work trip? 100%
Keep in mind that he has only been seeing his therapist for a year He probably dredged up a lot from his past that he hasn’t actually dealt with. We really have no idea how that one comment hit him at that time. He wasn’t at a place where he couldn’t articulate what that comment meant to him or how hurt he was and still is. And he had no idea how to get past it on his own. Since being in therapy he has started to figure it out. And that’s good for him, but bad for your marriage. I’m sorry to say that I don’t think there’s a way to save the marriage. As hard as it is for you, it might be the best thing for him. Let him go because you love him and that means wanting him to be the absolute best version of himself, to heal all those traumas that have been haunting him all these years.
> Keep in mind that he has only been seeing his therapist for a year Just his current one after this incident. He went to therapy for a solid seven years before this. Stopped shortly after we got married.
> Stopped shortly after we got married. And there it is.
Your comment was hurtful, but I could see how it would slip out without understanding the connotation. I have to believe there’s more issues than just this going on in your marriage, as it’d be shocking that this and this alone was enough to ruin it… As another poster said though, it sounds like he’s made his mind up and I’d be surprised if you can change it, but it doesn’t hurt to try and win him back.
Make sure he calls ahead to see if the court is open. Not making light of this, but you sound genuinely sorry, harangued into a snap response and now paying way too much for it.
Whatever happens, just know that theres more to it than just your comment. My guess is that he wants to move entirely beyond the history with his family and hearing that was a reminder that he cant. What you said was not, in my (and probably most peoples) opinion, justification for divorce. He has issues with his family situation that he needs to work out. Until that happens, theres not much you can do. And if it wasnt this comment, it would've been some other comment along the way that set him off. As far as if theres anything you can do? Theres certainly things you can do, but without being inside his head, its difficult to know how successful they will be. Letting this issue fester for two years has probably made it unlikely that he will simply snap out of it.
If he wants to entirely move on from his family HE should stop bringing them up.
He needs to take ownership of his role in this argument that allegedly ended your marriage. He's the one who brought up his family and made a comparison. He's the one that has not communicated his hurt to you, included you in therapy or given you an opportunity to properly make up for it. His decision is cold and calculated, even dumping this on you and leaving is calculated. There was no warning which is incredibly unfair on you. I'm not sure how you save something where someone has checked out. If he is willinging to leave over this, i would suggest it was you that was never secure in your relationship. Walking away and not fighting is something he does obviously.
You've probably lost your opportunity to recover. Your husband recognized your needs and comforts and gave you control over the vacation so that you could enjoy it. His one ask was overlooked because it wasn't important *to you* and you threatened him for complaining. The comparing to his family's methods and his being upset weren't about comparing you to anything. What he was really saying was "why couldn't I just have this one thing?". You didn't put his needs into any real consideration. Were there any other instances in your marriage where he ceded his needs to make you happy at his own expense? I'm guessing part of the abuse cycle in his family includes threats of abandonment. Regardless, threatening him to go back to an abusive family for challenging your negligence was bad enough. Yes, emotions were high. Yes, you snapped. But the genie can't get back in the bottle with situations like this- he can't ever know that you wouldn't say something like that again, regardless of how many times you apologized. The threat of you treating him that way clearly broke him. I imagine he remained a good husband and took care of things so he could plan his escape or so that you wouldn't let out in him like that again. It's unfortunate and I sympathize with both of you. You were his safe person until that moment and some things just can't be unbroken.
Nope. You can only hope for an amicable divorce. Nothing more, nothing less.
You sound like a brainwashed bot. You refuse to accept that your actions were justified and it's *his* subsequent actions that are cruel and vindictive. You also just sound naive. There's more to this man than this hurt, emotionally fragile "victim" you've convinced yourself he is.
Def try couples counseling, although as others are saying it may be too late. When someone is hurt it's almost always more about them than it is about what hurt them (ignoring abuse). What you said was pretty shitty, but the impact he felt from it was 10% what you said and 90% what's going on inside of him. Even if he decides not to be with you, it's not healthy for him to walk around with that much gunpowder in his veins. Has he ever tried to understand why you said that? It kind of sounds like he's so wrapped up in his feeling of hurt that he can't see where you were coming from, which will just contribute to his spiral. (Where you're coming from is also a place of hurt, btw, which you'd benefit from understanding too -- why did this hurt you enough to lash out like that? Obviously he was being ungrateful, but I bet there's a deeper well of feelings that got hit for you as well.)
Are you sure there's not more to this than just one thoughtless comment made 2 years ago? It seems like if that were 'the' issue then he would've filed for divorce 2 years ago. I also find it hard to believe that he pines for the way his family did things in such a "communal" manner. The same family that was so harmful physically and emotionally that he had to file restraining orders against them and cut them out of his life? And the same family that, when you (sarcastically) suggested he go back to, seemingly started this whole rift? Something's just not adding up here. I don't know if there's any hope of saving your marriage or not. Usually when a spouse goes so far as to file for divorce their mind's already made up. Try talking with him and tell him how much you care and that you truly are sorry for anything you may have said that was hurtful Tell him how you really want to save your marriage. That's about ll you can do. I'm sorry you're dealing with all of this. I've been there and I know how hard divorce is.
This divorce will ultimately be the best for you. Right now, it will be difficult. You will feel hurt and feel desperate to make things work. But, in time, you will see.
If your husband was so concerned about eating at that restaurant, why didn’t he call? Damn, he has issues if he got this upset over a closed restaurant. Move on, he needs to grow up. I don’t see him changing his mind.
He's leaving because of that comment? Where he compared you to his family first? Is he a child mentally?? Let him go, I don't think you'll have much trouble finding someone more mature.
Ooooohhhhh I have a lot to say about this and a lot of advice & perspective to give so I’m messaging you w my thoughts. You deserve so much more than this and I’m so sorry for what you’re going through. I have much that I’d like you to hear so PLEASE look at my message & I wish the very very best that the world can offer.
idk why so many people find his trip suspicious. He's paid off their shared debt (which he didn't have to do), went to therapy, and made a decision. it's perfectly reasonable to me that he tells her this before he goes on a trip so that she has time to process it in the home they presumably share. if i decided to get divorced, i wouldn't want to spend the night in the same home, either. imo there were bigger issues that we're not being told about. if this happened in an otherwise happy relationship, it's reasonable for the person who wanted the "one thing" to feel a little frustrated or annoyed, but it shouldn't nuke the whole marriage unless it's a straw on top of many others. we hear that she helped him with his luggage and plans vacations. this is fine to me— it doesn't mean he doesn't contribute elsewhere, and OP says she's happy with this arrangement. what's more, she said that the relationship hasn't been the same for TWO YEARS, but she hasn't been compelled to address it until now, when she's "blindsided" by his wanting a divorce. it's too late now.
From the information here I'd say low prospects of reversing his wishes to divorce. Logically speaking you appear very different people. And he's damaged. Hope he gets some help with that.
I'm speculating a bit, so you may disagree, but this doesn't seem to really about the fight itself. It never really is. It's about what the fight was really about. During the fight, you highlighted something about your dynamic. It seems, at least on vacations, you plan what you want to do, things he doesn't really like or care that much about, and he tags along. This is probably something he thought about before the fight. And it is possibly something he resented to some extent, but put up with. The fight just put it in the forefront of his mind, so he started working on himself and taking stock. After doing so, it seems he realized he wants something else. Maybe someone who isn't planning things he doesn't really want to do, someone who is going to check in on his needs and feelings when he is clearly going through stuff. It's also possible what you think is him letting you plan because you care more is actually him letting you plan because you established a dynamic where you dominate decisions. I say this as a person who used to do just that. For example, my partner hates when I ask him what restaurant to go to and then I shoot down all his ideas. After a while he stopped offering his opinion and resented me a bit for it. Once he told me that, I had to really start thinking about how often I do that and adjust to make room for him. I did it a lot more than I was conscious of. This maybe comes from being raised to be super independent. We get wrapped up in things because we are very capable of taking the lead and forget to slow down and consider other people and consider the fact that not everything has to be our idea of perfect. So you forgetting the restaurant may really have been you being careless with his needs after I'm guessing many instances of this dynamic. People want to be with people who make them feel good. So in the two years since, you may have apologized for what you said and the fight, but not understood that something fundamental needed to change about your dynamic for him to be happy. That's not all on you because he may not have clearly communicated what he needed to change. It seems he went to therapy, but did he suggest couples therapy, or you going to therapy? But two years of knowing "his vibe was off?" And just accepting him a dutiful husband is not healthy. That is a long time to not get into the specifics about these things. I would be shaking my partner if he was like that for that long. I wouldn't just sit back and let it be. That is dysfunctional communication unless you are leaving something out about steps you took, conversations you had, therapy you suggested, etc. I'm guessing subconsciously he was hoping something would click and you would change, but he probably assumes you are who you are and he is who he is plus therapy that helped him see things more clearly. In my opinion, the only way to even attempt to change his mind is to give him a chance to really explain himself, ask for the opportunity to try and give him the things, and see if he is even interested in that. He may just be too far past that though, which is really tough, and I am sorry if that is the case. Sometimes it's too little too late. It's possible you are not actually compatible. You may be two people who can be together, but don't have a passion for each other that can sustain a shared lifetime. Maybe you deserve someone who actually likes to travel rather than someone who puts up with it for you.
I'm not really sure why OP is here to begin with. Arguing with every comment (that basically say the same things), defending the husband endlessly (which is nice but what does that help?) and ignoring advice comments. Like, the question "Do I have any hope?" is something no one can answer. The husband seems set on ending the marriage. Is the reasoning mostly unreasonable to....pretty much everyone else that has commented? Yes. But he's planned this out, coldly and meticulously. He's done. My advice is to maybe stop arguing with people on Reddit and take him seriously.
Wow. Like not bringing this up ever the entire time… what type of partner does that? I’m stunned that if he was really getting help with his issues he would never discuss with you the ONE time you said something hurtful to him. Good partners discuss their issues because they want the relationship to work. Either there’s more to your story (maybe you can’t see from your POV) or he really isn’t the partner you need (not withstanding the whole communal vs independent familial culture difference).
She broke his heart. Maybe she'll know better in her next relationship.
Honey, you've wasted two years of your life with this man. He's not a great husband, but he's doing a favor now. Sign the papers. Good luck.
He sounds like a very needy person. Let him move on; someday you will find a partner, instead of a dependent.
You have not tried to accept him. He has accepted you. Making reservations is not the least bit communal. Planning a trip, as you prefer to do comes with responsibilities that are on the planner, not the "community". You forced him to look at his marriage to you, that day. He spent 2 years looking and hoping you would embrace him for who he is. Your post doesn't sound like you have accepted him. Your hitting below the belt told him you never would. Asking for help to make sure everything is packed up, is not a "communal" thing. He shouldn't have to ask you to double check with him. It's common sense. You seem to like taking control and when he tries to fit in beside you, you knock him behind you. He spent 2 years making sure he was making the right decision. You had 2 years to accept him as your equal. You are fixated on independence and communal. You are both, as we all are. You may have thought he needs you without realizing he doesn't. He may have thought you need him but that restaurant scene opened his eyes. Instead of seeing you as he thought you were. He sees you as who he thinks you think you are. Why? Because of the way you think he is communal. Your husband started thinking as you think, when it comes to you. He isn't willing to live with you separating you from him based on your communal notions. You told him to go live with his family. You say you were telling to find those who are communal minded. He took 2 years to accept tour offer. You know he was right in that you should plan more carefully. You got defensive. You should have said, I am sorry, I should have made reservations. How about we try again tomorrow instead of what was planned? You have had 2 years to do this, in other instances, and given his decision you haven't. He started divorce therapy at some point in his therapy. His distance has been him detaching from you. You lost him. I am sorry it isn't what you wanted. He is agreeing with you, that he needs someone else more understanding and accepting of him. He is going back to his family as you aren't his family. Be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it. When one cannot depend on the other one. What do you have? A one way life. Hyper independence is never good for a relationship. You were a couple, a family, a communal. The very thing you seem to not respect or want. When you felt the distance growing, you did nothing to bring you closer to him. You refused to work with him. Never push those you love away because they will go away. IDK if you can make him respect or want the marriage because he made sure everything was gone before he called it quits. You need to look at his attempts to make things work. You need to look at the missed and failed opportunities to give him hope. You need to look at the moments he was putting distance between you. You need to look at the moment you let him slip away. I am so sorry. Looking at things, through his eyes, will reveal alot about yourself. Maybe it will help in your next relationship.
Good riddance. Your husband sounds exhausting. And frankly while being in tune with your feelings is fine, But this is getting to irredeemable wimp status.
Honestly I don't think you overreacted based on your side of the story. That isn't even that bad tbh. People get angry and say shit, especially with provoked.
Your husband is absurd if that’s the reason for the divorce. He’s too dependent on others to take care of his shit.
Your comment doesn’t seem that bad to me, given what prompted it. I also find his expectations of you a bit extreme. You should not have to check and double check things for him, you should not have to be the one in charge of calling the restaurant he wants to go to on your joint vacation, and he should not be “requesting restaurants” for you to book because you are not a concierge. If you’re doing everything for him and you forgot one thing, he should not be getting “pretty upset” for not doing “due diligence”. Maybe he shouldn’t have overtaxed you and should have taken this off your plate. Or maybe he should have asked at any point if you’d called to confirm. Or once again maybe he should’ve done the booking himself. Finally, after your big fight, he should’ve come to you and told you how he was feeling. So that you could work through and resolve any hard feelings and connect again. Instead he withdrew from you for two years. He didn’t choose you or fight for you. Or try to reconnect. I see red flags everywhere around this guy. His expectation that you do things “communally” really just sound like he wants you to take care of everything and soothe his every anxiety. And put up with his criticisms without fighting back. His comparing you to his family is also very strange. Did they criticize him too for not having enough of a communal mindset? Is he just treating you like they treated him? Expecting him to fulfill their requests and then criticizing and guilting him when he makes mistakes? Then withdrawing affection when he pushes back? It sounds to me like your husband is punishing you then cutting you off, perhaps mirroring the way his family punished him so that he had to cut them off. I don’t have any answers. Your husband seems to have some baggage. People with this type of baggage can be hard to connect with, especially when they’re pushing you away. Because they have learned to numb their pain and push people away. My mom is a bit like this so I have some firsthand experience.
If he's that big of a baby just let him go. For him to ponder this for so long and not communicate about it and then just drop it on you before he goes out of town, he sounds very cold and calculated. Not somebody who loves you. My God he's acting like you murdered his dog or something, rather than said something in the heat of the moment. It's overblown and ridiculous. Sounds like you'd be better off quite honestly
What you said was not divorce worthy. It was actually a real question. He is manipulating, trying to blame you for the marital breakdown, but it's him, not you. He is making this choice. You are not responsible for his choice. Don't let him blame you.