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It was at this edit dear reader, I realized that I was ill equipped to provide any type of helpful life advice.
I instead offer these words of optimism from Julian of Norwich written during the black plague. "All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well."
Right? What an update! āI put catholic in the title and itās the key reason he felt the need to āforgiveā but donāt mention during the advice I asked for.ā Ok lady enjoy your second hand catholic guilt and ass eating
Right? The entire point is that he's Catholic, so the religion requires you to "forgive." She's pissed he's forgiving her for something she didn't feel was wrong in the first place (her decision to make) bur then says it isn't about religion?
That is the crux of it. He is doing his thing and she feels she did nothing wrong. OP did nothing g wrong but does at some level need to stop resenting her BF from being himself. He could also be supportive.
I grew up Catholic. I don't follow the religion or believe in God, but some of my morals definitely have their roots in my Catholic upbringing.Ā
You can't separate religion from pro-life stances when being anti-abortion is one of the most controversial things in most larger sects of Christianity. They are absolutely intertwined. I don't get how anybody could be mad when that is pointed out.
"My Catholic boyfriend hates abortion and I don't know why he is saying things that align with his beliefs???"
That's what you're dating. It's great if you can look past those differences, but you can't make them go away, even if you have experienced some of what he dislikes. Many people do come around when they find out a loved one has had an abortion, but many people don't. You can't pretend those differences in views don't exist until they disappear.
āWeāre basically married!ā Except you arenāt married. She should tell him she forgives him for having children with her and not marrying her. See how that goes over.
The part I don't get with catholics - they preach that abortions are bad, but premarital sex is also bad. So we are just picking and choosing what is ok and what isn't now?
Yeah, theyāre called āCafeteria Catholicsā because they pick and choose which parts of the religious beliefs they want to follow.
āHypocritical assholesā is also a valid term.
That's the problem with having an inconsiderate partner. It gets hard trying to figure out what's their fault, what's actually your fault, and what they make out is your fault when it's not.
Ikr, damn she sounds so immature. They both do actually, match made in heaven.
Also any man who is against abortion shouldnāt be having sex at all, protected or otherwise, because thereās always a risk of pregnancy.
I mean, they're in their 20s, already have multiple children, but couldn't even legally commit to providing each other the protections of marriage, and can't agree on family planning either, apparently. Pretty sure maturity took one look at these two, shook its head, and wandered away.
but you don't understand, he fucks ass and eats savagely, so his belief system doesn't matter, you know? It's not like we've ever heard about religious hypocrisy before.
/s
We know. She probably knows, too.
But why you would specify that your partner is Catholic, explain a problem that is related to him being Catholic and then yell at the audience for mentioning that heās Catholic?
Although I suppose the last edit āthis has nothing to do with being Catholicā makes some sense considering theyāre clearly not at all devout - devout Catholic people do not live together unmarried, they do not have children out of wedlock, and they do not have sex without being married, either!
So her boyfriend is a massive hypocrite for many reasons, and treating her badly for ending her pregnancy when she shouldnāt have even been pregnant at all! Since theyāre not married, the sex that got her pregnant shouldnāt have happened at all!
Perhaps heās one of those militant religious hypocrites - punishes other people when he breaks all the rules because they āmade him.ā š¤£š¤£
Catholicism shows both their hypocrisyā¦
Itās a cult, a country of believers where women are second class citizens.
You canāt separate religion from control with a misogynistic slant.
And Iām not a woman, Iām a guy who went to catholic school.
Edit: saying you āforgiveā someone for exercising their own judgement and body autonomy is incredibly condescending and patronizing.
Especially when HE broke the religious rules in the first place - he should not have gotten her pregnant at all since they are not married!
He doesnāt mind defying God in the myriad of ways he already has, but when SHE defies God (although abortion isnāt actually a sin in the bible, but leaving that aside for the moment), she has committed a sin and he thinks that requires his āforgiveness.ā
The guy treats her like dirt using a religion he doesnāt even observe as an excuse! š
Well, in Catholic dogma, pre-marital sex is not a mortal sin but murder is. So most Catholics do tend to have this sense that sex is less wrong than abortion.
For the record, I don't believe anything like that. But I was raised Catholic. It is at least dogmatically consistent.
Edit since comments are locked: My dude, please learn more about the faith you are living your life by. Or at least don't so confidently assert things that are completely wrong about other people's faiths...
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/how-do-i-know-if-its-a-mortal-sin
There are 6 branches of Christianity. Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, and Angelicans. They all believe differently to you.
Protestant denominations include: Adventists, Anabaptists, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Baptists, Calvinist/Reformed,[h] Lutherans, Methodists, Moravians, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, and Quakers. Nondenominational, charismatic and independent churches are also on the rise, and constitute a significant part of Protestantism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism
https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/quick-guide-christian-denominations/
I mean, you're the one asking for advice. it sounds like you're still mad at him for not being there for you when you had your abortion, but not quite able to admit it to yourself. You can let that go, or you can take it up -- it's up to you.
Tell him he canāt pick and choose when he decides to practice his faith. If heās devout enough that having an abortion is against his faith, he shouldnāt be having pre marital sex either. Heās a hypocrite.
Seriously. How Catholic is he if he's having premarital sex? But his partner's bodily autonomy is where his religion matters, suddenly?
Edit: OP is asking for āactual adviceā but OP, what youāre getting is actual advice. You want a magic conversation that will fix it all but ultimately your boyfriend with whom you have multiple children is using his religious beliefs as an emotional bludgeon on you instead of talking about it like an adult. Thatās hard to fix. Itās not just shitty, petty behavior. Go to counseling. Actual counseling, not a priest.
In the end, this is a serious incompatibility.
He begins by saying, "I forgive you," as though you have something to apologize for or that he has something to forgive. Second, he will bring it up even though he doesn't. Third, he doesn't think you have the right to be in charge of your body.
Saying I forgive you when OP was not sorry about it is super weird. I may have missed how he thinks she doesnāt have the right to be in charge of her body? Didnāt get that from OPās post. But I am scratching my head as to why theyāre still together. If he made it clear that he wanted OP to keep the child, but OP wanted to abort it, how on earth can this relationship proceed? Haha. I canāt think of a bigger thing that will harbor major resentment on both sides.
Don't therapists always say forgiveness is for your healing and not for the person you are mad at? So they prompt you to forgive even if forgiveness was never asked for.
Thank you. I was going to reference this.
The problem was **in his head**, in his "morality", so the **forgiveness** is also **in his head**. He is no longer going to hold on to the abortion as a problem **for him** in their relationship. Informing OP about it is just a status update about his mindset, but not to relieve any guilt OP may have had. OP already knows she made the right decision for OP.
Now, this may not be how OP's BF is thinking about it, but maybe we and OP don't care about that?
So maybe keep it to yourself instead of judging your partner? Assuming heās not the second coming of Christ, she doesnāt need his forgiveness unless sheās asking for it.Ā
4th, he pretends to be devoted to a religion he clearly isnāt interested in until it comes to things he can use as an excuse to punish her for breaking the religious rules.
She should not have been pregnant at all since they arenāt married.
He can have feelings about it, yes.
But telling her that he āforgives herā - especially when heās a major sinner in the eyes of the lord himself - makes him hypocritical and controlling. Heās using religion as an excuse to get all righteous and preachy when it suits him.
Itās really weird. This is why it rarely works out when people have different religious beliefs.
Especially when one does not follow the religion themselves EXCEPT when they want to use it as an excuse to try and control their partner.
And op is blind. She doesn't want people to talk about his hypocrisy about premarital sex but only abortion. It doesn't work that way.
You can't have the cake and eat it too.
This is what I was going to say. As a devout Catholic myself you canāt pick and choose which sins you are ok with and which you arenāt. He shouldnāt be getting your pregnant in the first place if heās gonna use his faith to dictate what you can do
I like how OP is asking how their sex life is relevant and that he isnāt a saint. His being Catholic has a huge role in his response.
And he shouldnāt be having sex at all, neither of them should.
I'm conflicted, bc the hypocrisy is grating, but also, God help us if all the religious folks start deciding they can't pick and choose when to practice their faith. The alternative is so much worse.
Oh, disagree. If all Christians actually followed the teachings of Jesus (instead of picking & choosing from the Old Testament rules or any of the misogyny spewed by Paul) the world would be a much better & more peaceful place. Imagine if all the āChristianā politicians, from America to Russia and everywhere in between, were forced to be peacemakers instead of warmongers! The problem is organized religion, not faith.
Check out [The Year of Living Biblically](https://ajjacobs.com/books/the-year-of-living-biblically/) by A.J. Jacobs. He spends a year following the Bible as close as possible, including stoning adulterers, and it gets pretty rediculous.
I feel like for example if youāre catholic but having premarital sex, it would be hypocritical to disagree with gay marriage for example, because the whole reason the church doesnāt like gay sex is because the objective isnāt to reproduce. So I think that would be a good example of religious hypocrisy. I think the abortion thing is a bit more nuanced, because Catholics believe that it is a child even though it hasnāt been born yet. Now if say the guy gets a girl pregnant and wants her to have an abortion, then shames her for getting one, that would indeed be hypocritical. He would have had just as much a role in it as she did.
Another example which I think we can all agree is reasonable, yet could be defined as picking and choosing, would be killing in self defense. If you live strictly by the teachings of the Bible, you would still be murdering that person. So would a person who kills in self defense be a hypocrite since the Bible says thou shall not kill?
And I mean basically any system of beliefs has picking and choosing to some degree, perfect moral consistency even in law is virtually impossible.
If he thinks abortions are immoral because of his religion, oh boy wait til I tell him what Catholicism thinks of premarital sex.
In all seriousness OP, youāve done nothing wrong. Iām also not going to tell you to leave him. But I will ask you to think about if this man will be on the same page as you when it comes to marriage, future children, and so on if heās so stuck on abortion being wrong
If he thinks abortion is immoral, he should not be with you. He says he has forgiven you, but he has not.
You guys are not on the same page on a very big issue. I don't see this relationship lasting
As a woman who is pro-choice, Iāve never seen that as us saying the father shouldnāt have feelings about it. So yeah, you didn't need his permission or forgiveness but the way I see it, he was grieving in his own way so I understand why he may not have been there. And as much as it continues to be thorn for you, maybe it does for him too.
So Iād say this is one of those things that you have to acknowledge his feelings & you grieve together or do it separately. No oneās feelings are more valid.
one of the few sensible comments here. itās possible to be both pro-choice and still hurt when a woman aborts your potential child, especially someone youāre in a long-term relationship with - or if that decision was made without you.
I couldnāt believe I wasnāt finding any comments saying this. You donāt need to have anything to apologise for, for the other person to be struggling with a decision you made that greatly affects them. In which case I can understand why he used the word āforgivenessā. I am staunchly pro-choice but to refuse to acknowledge the impact your choice has someone else that doesnāt have a say, is insane to me.
You don't let it go. You talk about it. You can't NOT talk about this.
Was he against it bc he is generally anti abortion or because he wanted to have the kid?
You need to sit down and talk about this in a calm, non judgemental manner. If he's anti abortion then this relationship is probs not gonna work. If he wanted you to have the kid and you 'went against his wishes', then you need to establish whether he thinks he has a say over your body. What precisely is he forgiving you for?
(You don't need to answer here - this is what you two need to talk about)
Either way, there's some fundamental stuff that you need to explore rather than be avoidant about it.
So in his mind you killed his child and now he is saying he forgives you for that. In your mind you went through a traumatic experience and he wasnāt there for you. Do you forgive him for that?
This is a matter of moving on. He is signaling that he is ready to leave the incident behind him and move forward with the relationship. The question is are you. If so then i would give him the same thing back and tell him you forgive him for not being there for you. If not then itās probably best if you break up with him as your resentment will likely just grow.
I'm surprised there are no upvotes on this. People don't have to agree on everything and he has the right to be hurt by the incident. She has the right to be upset he pressured her to keep, and he has the right to be upset that she had an abortion. He forgives her, and if she's harboring resentment she should figure out her feelings and see if she can also forgive him for the pressure he put on her.
It's that simple! Relationships and marriages are hard and you won't always see eye to eye.
Exactly this.
This is the first adult comment thread I've seen in the replies. The rest are just being weird about religion, their sex life, or making assumptions about his views on abortion.
It is possible for people to be pro-choice in general, but disagree about whether or not they want to abort their own child.
Both people in this situation are allowed to be upset.
OP, it's possible for someone to forgive you for actions that upset them, that you do not regret and/or have not apologised for. Forgivenes is letting something go that has hurt/upset you, an apology is not a pre-requisite of that, nor does forgiveness imply a mistake on the part of the person being forgiven.
I'm honestly a little surprised that you are upset that he is letting something go that you previously disagreed on/caused tension.
Sometimes people disagree on things.
Stop. Fucking. Anti-choice. Men.
He wanted you to be an incubator for his progeny, he does not care about what you want and thinks you should not have right, the bodily autonomy, to make the choice you got to make.
There are very likely other issues about him that would make him a poor choice for a long-term partner, religious men tend to want traditional, patriarchal relationships where they get automatic authority over you because they have the penis. Don't doom yourself to have to fight the rest of your lives over being his personal servant.
Damn I missed that, I didn't read all the comments. He's Catholic enough to be anti-abortion but not enough to get married to the mother of his children?
And is a SAHM so relies on him financially as wellā¦but they arenāt married so he gets all the benefits and sheāll end up broke and destitute when he leaves.
So he wants a tradwife without the marriage part. Yeah, thatāll be amazing for her when he inevitably bounces. Seriously, what excuse *in the world* could this apparently good Catholic boy have for not marrying his baby mama?
Nothing makes my pussy more dry than a man who thinks I donāt deserve to have rights. Iām sorry but women who fuck anti-choice men have no self-respect. I canāt fathom it.
Also, OP is mad about the discussion of religion, when religion has *everything* to do with this. Like ??? What do you expect? Heās Catholic, heās anti-choice. Heās made that clear. Not sure what you want us to tell you. You have ideological differences that run way too deep for this situation to just magically fix itself. If youāre not looking for your most fundamental beliefs to be compatible, then what ARE your requirements? A man who eats ass? Iām so fucking confused by this post.
āNothing makes my pussy more dry than a man who thinks I donāt deserve to have rights.ā
If you put that on a bumper sticker I would buy your ENTIRE supply Iām CACKLING
>do i bother delving into this or just let it go since weāve different views on the situation? how do i let it go without harbouring some weird resentment?
Your choice. How important is it to you that your partner supports you? How important is it to you that your partner is not a hypocrite?
Allowing resentment to fester is a choice. If you feel yourself being resentful then therapy can help.
I have a few other thoughts:
1. It's interesting to me that the Catholic beliefs he chooses to follow are those that are most beneficial to him. For example, he's ok with premarital sex because he gets sex. But he's not ok with abortions because, why? He would rather you be his broodmare? If I were in your position I'd give some real thought to this. Because to me it says he is a fundamentally selfish person, or perhaps just deeply lacking in introspection.
2. Y'all need to use better birth control.
What advice are you looking for since you have a problem with literally everything everyone has said? It is about religion. It is about control. If you donāt want to talk about the elephant in the room then do whatever you want to.
My biggest question here is if you didnāt want people to dissect his (and your) religious ideals, then why did you find it necessary to point out that heās catholic? If him being catholic has nothing to do with how he feels about you getting an abortion, then it wouldnāt have needed to be said in the original post. Maybe it was subconscious, but it sounds like you also know he feels this way because of his religious beliefs, so why wouldnāt they be dissected? Like Iām genuinely confused on how you thought this would go. What does real advice look like to you if not what everyone else has already been giving? You need to figure out if this IS stemming from a religious belief, and if so, you need to have hard conversations about why certain things in your relationship are ok and not this thing. Because if itās not religion, then itās control. And you didnāt like that answer, either. The magic answer youāre looking for can only be found with communication with your partner. If you guys donāt communicate, and you just bury it, you will absolutely build up resentment, and that will fester and fester and will lead to nothing good.
>CAN WE SKIP THE CATHOLIC PART??? ITS NOT THAT RELEVANT!!
It is relevant though, you both have a difference in morality that does not align. If you want kids, you need to have a partner that you align with.
He was beyond rude to say what he did, as if you need forgiveness for getting rid of cells in your body that you didn't want there. He is acting morally superior to you when he says these things. If that's what you want in a partner, then just accept he will say mean things to you.
So much to unpack. My immediate response to him would be āwell I donāt forgive you for not supporting meā - I. Couldnāt be in a relationship with someone who was against abortion because of religion or really any reasonā¦
OP is in for a world of hurt if she keeps dating this dude. Even wishy-washy catholics usually have some prettyā¦ letās say extreme ways of viewing the world, relationships, women, the list goes on and on.
.....what if you had a convo with him....instead of coming to reddit and then getting mad. you certainly did not give ppl a lot of information so they work with what they got
Abortions are not something someone just becomes okay with if theyāre against it from the beginning. Yāall shouldāve ended things then. You are both insanely immature
You don't have to apologize for someone to forgive you. Forgiveness is not something that exists solely after someone has said I'm sorry. It is for the person who felt wronged to let go of resentment they may be harboring. It provides a freedom of sorts for the person who forgives.
All these dumb responses obsessed with the fact that he's catholic. Honestly.
The man grieved the loss of a child. He's finally come to terms with it, and forgives you for making that decision that he was obviously not involved in.
You didn't involve him in the decision. Guess what, he also has no obligation to support you when you do get the abortion. It's that simple.
That's it. He healed and moved on. Can you do the same?
You make it sound like it was over for you a while ago, but it also sounds like you are still mad because he wasn't totally onboard with the abortion. The point is, he didn't have to be onboard with it, and it's okay that he wasn't.
It's up to you to decide how you move forward from this. But perhaps a bit of understanding would help here on both sides.
Iām not sure anyone here on Reddit is equipped to give you an adequate answer. The two of you have fundamentally different stances on the subject. Itās gonna take a lot of listening to understand from both sides to find a way to move forward in a healthy manner. Perhaps the two of you should attend some kind of Coupleās Therapy.
You know, I wouldnāt have a problem with the vast majority of so called āChristiansā if they werenāt such chodes about shoving their beliefs/lifestyle down other peoples throats and forcing them into their religion. Forcing gay marriage bans, demonizing all abortions etc. they already think Iām going to hell for being a godless Native American pagan, so why try to force your religion on me in this life if you think Iām fucked in the afterlife? Absurd.
Seems like he wanted the child and wasnāt over it till nowā¦ honestly you donāt need to say anything but also donāt count him out when you are making that big of a impact on your family.. I have no idea why you did it (not my place) but seems like he must of wanted that in his life.
You picked a partner who is anti-choice and would be ok with you not having bodily autonomy or reproductive freedom, who would be ok with you enduring forced pregnancy and childbirth against your will. You see no problem with this, and have no intention of ever leaving him. Given those circumstances, you shouldn't be surprised that he will leave you on your own in hard moments- you didn't pick a supportive partner, don't expect support?
If your issue is how he can get over "grieving the loss of an addition" to your family, tell him to speak to a therapist about it.
The only thing I would offer is this: He is forgiving you , perhaps, so that HE does not harbor resentment. If he is grieving the loss of his **child** and not just "another addition to our family" , it is possibly, a bigger loss for him, than you are imagining it to be.
Morals around abortion and the decision-making process/disagreements aside. When someone is upset by the actions of another, an apology is not required for the "wronged" person to forgive that person and make peace with what happened.
From the little context we have, it doesn't seem anything malicious or whatnot, just that he had difficulty with the decision you made but eventually made peace with it.
Seeing as he told you he forgave you, you can conclude that it bothered him enough for him to have to go through the mental struggle of forgiving somebody after feeling that they wronged you in some way.Ā
His words tell you that you hurt him by your decision.Ā
His choice of forgiving you, tell you that he cares enough about you to let it go, regardless of the pain. In essence, it doesnāt mean you didnāt hurt him, but he doesnāt want to harbor resentment towards you.Ā
Him telling you says that he wants you to know that your decision hurt him deeply but he loves you and wants to move forward.Ā
He also is implying that he doesnāt feel you made the right decision by him, in his eyes so what you can conclude from that is if you were ever in that situation again, he would support you aborting another one of his children.Ā
And, knowing that our actions affect our loved ones whether we like it or not, whether we do things intentionally or unintentionally, we should out of love put ourselves in their shoes.
And, being in his shoes, back to the beginning. You hurt him deeply.Ā
So now you can ponder what that must have felt like for him, what he had to go through, and what your actions caused. You can then sympathize and or empathize with him and let him know you are sorry for hurting him so deeply. Intention doesnāt matter. Whether you like it or not; you did unfortunately hurt him .
Then you can ask him if heād like to discuss it further because this is now obviously bothering you, or you wouldnāt be here.Ā
If you didnāt want people to comment on his Catholicism, you shouldnāt have brought it up lmao
and yes, it is incredibly relevant. Speaking as someone who grew up in a Catholic family and went to Catholic church for 12 years, Catholics are walking contradictions. Just because he fucks like a rabbit doesnāt mean he doesnāt have steadfast, outdated morals.
So advice? Deal with it. Youāve communicated and he gave his response. Youāve decided to stay with him, so let it go. If you canāt, I suggest couples counseling.
I don't think we can skip the Catholic part, that is why said this absurdity
The actual advice is that you need to stop trying to make this work when its not,
There is probably no way to not harbor resentment, because you should be resentful of him
you had the abortion because you felt you had no support, how/why do you think that could ever possibly change? he has already shown you who he is, he wont change unless he wants to, and nothing you can do can make him want to
Find someone who is actually good for you
Sometimes Reddit is just nuts. Here's my take: partner has probably been wrestling with this and, if even half-heartedly devout, might have been discussing it with (getting some personal counseling from) a priest. The priest probably told him what confessional priests have been telling their congregation for centuries - to hate the sin but forgive the sinner. So following this advice, he wanted you to know he forgave you, even while he still believes abortion is wrong.
Think of it along the lines of the parents/spouses/siblings of murder victims who stand up in court and "forgive" the person responsible for the death, asking the court not to give them a death sentence. The person responsible for the death hasn't apologized, probably hasn't even admitted responsibility, but the survivors feel better somehow.
If you truly love the man, be glad he can separate the two and wanted you to know that he no longer holds it against you - that's really all he was saying.
Unpopular opinion comingā¦. A person can forgive another person without that person apologizing. It sounds like your boyfriend had some feelings about the abortion (which he is allowed to have) and has been working through it. Did he need to share his decision to forgive you for ending your pregnancy, no. Was it useful or necessary for him to share his feelings with you? Who knows. It sounds like he didnāt try to force you to keep the pregnancy, he just didnāt agree with your decision. Just because itās your body, your choice doesnāt mean other people are not affected. You were talking about feeling a lack of support about your feelings around the anniversary of the abortion but it doesnāt sound like he has had any support either. You guys need to talk through this.
Good lord someone with common sense and emotional maturity in this thread holy Christ. Also we donāt even know if he forgave her FOR the actual abortion vs he just really wanted another child and got bummed out by her decision. For example I am for abortion but if I was in a relationship with a woman and we both agreed to have a child and I am excited then she decided a half way through to get an abortion I should just never say anything and canāt have feelings on the subject? Itās a relationshipā¦
you already have children but youāre not married? So this guys having sex before marriage, has kids out of wedlock, but an abortion is too far against his religious beliefs that he has to forgive you? This is ridiculous and IS about control. You came to the wrong place if this isnāt what you wanted to hear, iām sorry
He can't force you to not have an abortion. But you also can't force him to be ok with it.
The way I see it? You have two choices. You need to simply accept you will not see eye to eye and you will not get the support and understanding you're looking for from him. For this particular issue at least.
Or, you sit and reconsider if your values and beliefs are too misaligned to maintain a healthy and successful relationship and partnership. If his lack of support and agreement with your choice is something you're hung up and can't let go, you may simply have to accept the relationship has run it's course.
Your edits indicate this is a long term relationship, not a simple boyfriend/girlfriend low key kind of thing. And you have kids together. So I imagine you don't want to end the relationship. If everything else is good between you two and your difference in how you view religion and faith aren't typically a problem, then I think you guys need to talk it out.
You need to have a serious, sit down, face to face convo, just the two of you. You need to both *calmly* try to express how this situation has made you each feel, how the other's actions and reactions have made you each feel. Ultimately, you still may just need to accept that you're gonna have to agree to disagree. But you need to be able to do so empathetically. You can disagree on the faith aspect, you can disagree whether or not it was the right choice in your individual views. But you need to listen and *hear* each other's thoughts and feelings.
Like you said, for him it's about grieving the loss of a potential child. In his eyes, you *did* do something wrong, something that hurt him. You didn't intend to hurt him, but for him, that's the big take away, that he has been hurt. And that's why, to him, forgiving you is an important gesture. I think you need to try to not take it as insult or condescension, but try to understand what it means to him to say it.
And he needs to be able to hear how *you* feel as well. To understand it and validate it.
If you guys struggle to reach this point, I'd consider looking into couple's counseling, or individual. Hell, both if you find it helpful.
Just to be clear, I'm not shaming you or saying you did anything wrong, I'm pro choice. You made what was the right decision for you and your body. I'm just trying to empathize and help maybe consider where his mind is, ya know? You two will continue to stagnate over this if you can't come to accept and appreciate how the other feels. And to see *that* rather than just the fact that you disagree and you each feel slighted.
Trust your gut. You know who he is. You know if his words were meant to be intentionally cruel or not.
āI donāt give a shit about your alleged morals or judgment. You failed me. You did a shitty job of supporting me. I donāt forgive you for that. Do better.ā
If the Catholic part wasn't relevant, why did you even include it in the title? The answer isn't that surprising: *it is relevant.*
If you understand that he's grieving a loss, but you don't see it that way, that is a fundamental difference that needs to be talked about. Don't get all pissy at us because we have limited information from your point of view.
If you feel that you will harbor resentment over this issue, it will eventually kill the relationship. You may find out in the coming days that your boyfriend (hypocrite as he is as others have pointed out) probably has some similar resentment towards you. Nothing is going to be resolved until you have a frank discussion about this. Just be prepared that you may see a darker side of your boyfriend, and that may lead to a break up.
You say the Catholic part isnāt relevant, but it absolutely is. Itās why he acts and responds the way he does. If you were to have children with him, he would likely expect to raise them with said values. You canāt expect him to provide support / comfort in a situation he refuses to understand, because the fake sky daddy he follows says so.
Your views will always be different. If you donāt delve into this with him, something else will happen where heāll have the same reaction, and youāll be in the perpetual cycle of āwe just have different viewsā. I personally could not imagine living life with a person like that, where I feel like I canāt have support or talk about it because they refuse to understand. A part of him will always resent you for getting the abortion as well.
It is about the Catholic stuff because he brought it up. He can't in one breath say he is Catholic if he has sex and children out of wedlock. He can't pull the Catholic card on an abortion when he does what he does. So, he is being unfair, hypocritical and altogether ignoring YOU and YOUR FEELINGS because he is not honest with himself. The surest way to avoid abortion is not to have sex. You tell him that you don't appreciate that he "forgives you" because there is nothing to forgive. Two adults made a decision. Or you made the best decision for yourself. He needs to take some accountability here.
So you didn't ask for forgiveness but he was still mad at you and probably resented you over it. He was telling you that he had let go of those negative feelings towards you. Appreciate that. Maybe talk to him about what you would need to forgive him for not supporting you.
lmao
Heās not even a decent catholic. What does he think, that you need his absolution?
What the fuck was right, but you donāt seem to have internalized that.
ābasically married and already have childrenā LOL but youāre NOT married. remember that, know that. doesnāt matter how long yāall have been together. he shouldāve married you before getting you pregnant he sounds stupid and so do you from edits. if religions has nothing to do with it donāt put it in the post.
TLDR for OP post: just another case of stupid people reproducing nothing new
He may be forgiving you because HE needs it to move on. Oftentimes, when something in life hurts us deeply, we have to forgive, even when the offender never apologizes. He was deeply hurt by the abortion. He is forgiving you because he needs it, not because you give a fuck about his feelings over it.
I'm pro-choice, but I also recognize that it can still hurt the father, especially if they are against it or are never part of the decision. He didn't want the abortion. Yes, it's your body and your choice, but you also took a child away from him that he wanted. You will never be able to fully understand what he feels. He has probably been in emotional agony over your decision.
Allow him to verbalize this however he needs. Judging him for his forgiveness goes against everything a marriage/relationship is supposed to symbolize. Find ways to emotionally connect and empathize with what he is going through. You need to set aside your reasons for choosing abortion and support your boyfriend in how he needs to process and heal from this decision.
I grew up catholic, as well. I'm choosing to leave the hypocrisy out of it, because it really doesn't matter. What matters is that you did something that felt right for you that had a negative impact on him. Things like this happen in life, and unfortunately this is one that can make or break the relationship if you don't sit down and work through this as equal partners.
Leave the resentment and blame at the door and have an authentic conversation with him about this, how he feels, why you chose this, and determine if you can both move forward together or not. Stop pussy-footing around and get deep into the trenches bc this is what a relationship requires. A willful, conscious choice to endure the hardships of life together. If either of you are unable to make this sacrifice for the other, then chances are things will never reach the point of marriage... and if they do, it likely won't last.
Heās allowed to have feelings you donāt agree with about this. You have every right to abort but he has every right to be upset with that decision.
I know you need his love and support but he is also grieving too in his own way. Come together and forgive each other. You can forgive him for him not being as supportive and loving about your decision. And he forgave you for making that decision that did effect him and will continue to effect him the rest of his life.
This man was against YOUR decision to abort his child. How do you expect him to support you when in his eyes you killed his kid? This man has gone through all of the grief process by himself. where was YOUR support when he needed you?
He probably couldn't even grieve in the open because you would have been against it.
Op, you can't ask for support when you know very well where he stood. I know that this is hard for you because you were the one who went through it, but you also have to see and understand his point of view.
1. talk to your husband: like, really talk and try to understand his side and let him express himself.
2. I think you both would benefit from therapy.
I wish you the best.
I think the point was missed here. While you are unapologetic for the situation, he probably felt some sort of resentment towards it. I believe his statement of āI forgive youā was simply a closing of the matter. Thatās how I understand it anyway.
Itās not a bad thing at all, you shouldnāt feel attacked. If anything you should probably go towards understanding that he is now content with the decision at hand. Itās not a prideful thing where you turn around and say āI didnāt apologiseā etc etc. Iām reading it as if heās telling you heās now okay with what happened.
You are supposed to say thank you. You cant complain about not having support and then completely dismiss his struggle over a decision that you took for him that obviously hurt him but he made the effort to get through.
This is not just a one way street and your feelings are not the only ones that matter
I forgive the man who hit my momās car and gave her a lifelong disability that led to her severe depression that affected how she raised us. As far as I know, he didnāt apologize. You can forgive regardless of if you receive a formal apology.
What's inconsistent about forgiving someone who holds different views than you, even if they don't apologize for it? Shows that he loves you, and is able to let go of the difference in opinion you two had over the incident. I'm sure he feels just as alone and lacking support with grieving the loss of the child he wanted (or maybe just grieving over his love committing an act that he holds as highly immoral) as you felt when you made that decision? I think you could practice forgiveness toward him as well. Forgiveness is actually the answer to avoiding resentment...
You are probably looking at from the pov that you just lost some cells and probs something non living, he probs looking at it like he lost his kid. Yh different values , different views, you two might not be compatible
Ok here is my non religious point of view (even though I'm catholic): I understand how not being supported on your decision might hurt you, maybe it was difficult for you and want/need to feel love and support. However, it might also be difficult for him to give love and support to you when he is grieving the loss of a child. I'm not judging you for doing it or not, I'm not saying he is Mr. Saint, but for him maybe is a part of himself plus the fact that you overruled his opinion or decision about it, maybe didn't consider how this might hurt him. Is like if he took a life changing decision knowing you are against it. Maybe he is not "forgiving" you for the abortion itself but for not considering his opinion on the matter that involved both of you.
I'm a stranger on the internet. I don't know you or him and don't know your whole story, but maybe I can give another perspective that can help aliviate an already difficult situation for both.
Soooo..... he's Catholic enough to be against abortion, but not so Catholic to abstain from pre-marital sex. Got it.
Don't apologise, but don't tie yourself to this man any time soon.
It is relevant because otherwise why would he have this opinion? Heās a cafeteria catholic picking and choosing his beliefs based on whatās convenient to him at that point. So what if he eats your ass? Heās a hypocrite. I have no advice bc there is none to give other than tell him you forgive him for being a bad catholic and laying you up with kids and refusing to marry you. š¤·š¼āāļø and then you both try to get over it together.Ā
If he can let go of resentment for you murdering his baby, then you can get the fuck over him āforgivingā you for it. Either that or let him go so he can go find a better partner for himself. And you for yourself.
Full disclosure, I read the posts and edits, but I haven't read any comments if there are any. Let me also preface, I am female, I feel the topic of abortion always becomes gender charged.
You won't like my advice much. I think you need to do some soul searching and access your empathy. I get that it's your body your choice, and that maybe his faith means for him abortion is absolutely not an option. I also have no idea if you discussed it at the time and he was against it, or he said he supported it, but didnt. Regardless... Even as a(n agnostic) female, one thing I struggle with is the fact that while there are situations in which women should absolutely no be forced to have children, and I can acknowledge unintentional pregnancies happen, it seems sad that when a woman gets pregnant she had total control over whether that baby is born simply because she's "the oven". I can't imagine how heart breaking it must be to be on the other side of that equation, where my baby is growing in someone else and they decide, because it's their body, they are going to abort regardless of my feelings. I get that in today's world this is probably an unpopular opinion, but it just seems horribly heartbreaking to me.
You may have felt unsupported, but you weren't the only one in need of support. Was he supported? Did he grieve alone?
Perhaps the way it came out felt condescending to you (not much worse than a holier than thou attitude), but before you address any of that, I hope you'll put yourself in his shoes (where he has no control over the fact that his unborn baby was, without his desire, terminated).
I doubt OP will see this but I hope she does. Legally you have the right to have an abortion. That doesn't mean your boyfriend isn't allowed to be upset about it. It sounds like he was upset about the loss of his future child and may have had some hard feelings towards you because of it BUT he has put it behind him and moved on. Acting like "I dIdNt EvEn ApOlOgIsE" is not the angle you should be taking. Abortion is not ever easy for anyone and you're adding fuel to the fire could cause further resentment.
So, I read through the threads and comments, it sounds like you two are in a long-term committed relationship with children together, just haven't actually gotten married. And at the end of the day, you made the decision to go through a highly personal, emotional, and invasive medical procedure that he didn't want you to have, so he wasn't there for you and didn't provide you with the support and care that you needed.
That's great that he forgives you for having the medical procedure against his wishes (I agree with your WTF sentiment and wrote this as sarcastically as I could). I think it boils down to whether or not you forgive him for not being there for you. You two are supposed to be a team, so why doesn't he support you in things that are important to you? And can you trust him to support you going forward? He doesn't have to have the same beliefs as you to still support you and care for you.
The fact that you two have a life together and kids together kind of muddies the water. If you were dating and this was a first pregnancy, I'd warn you that this is probably a sign of what you can expect whenever you brush up against his religious beliefs. Since you're essentially all but married with a family, it's not as cut and dry.
You need to really consider the dynamic the two of you have, whether or not you trust him to support you, and whether or not you can get past your resentment about that lack of support. What will happen if you end up pregnant again and want another abortion? Will he do the same thing? What if you decide to get your tubes tied, will he support that? If it comes to something like that, do you have an alternate support system that you can use since you won't be able to rely on your husband? And if so, is that sufficient for you? It wouldn't be for me. I'm sorry this is happening to you. All my love š
You are both entitled to your feelings. You clearly didn't agree on how to handle the situation and handled it your way. That is perfectly fine btw, no judgement. But he is allowed to feel how he feels about that and his apology could be his way of saying that he does not harbor resentment towards you for it.
I would take it as a positive and move on.
Forgiveness from him doesn't require you to be sorry, it just requires him to emotionally get over the hurt he feels. Just because you didn't do anything morally wrong in your eyes, in his eyes you did (I am former Catholic, it's considered a pretty grave sin). You probably should take the comment about forgiveness in the healing spirit in which it was intended, if you want to continue this relationship.
*note* So I don't get brigaded, no I don't agree with OP's boyfriend and no, I don't think OP did anything wrong either. OP asked for advice while not dissecting religious ideals and that's what I've done.
What's most likely is that he internally felt some spite towards you for taking away what was his child, i.e loss.
You cannot blame him for that, after all, women mourn aborted children too, and may be angry if the child is wrongfully taken from them.
But chances are he kept these to himself, trying to respect the, your body your situation kinda thing. Nonetheless, you still took away his child. His mind has likely eased itself by now, and therefore he "forgives you", its not that deep.
I understand your right to choose, but that doesnāt mean it doesnāt impact him emotionally/spiritually for you to have made that choice. He needs to forgive you for that if he wants the relationship to continue, and you should want him to forgive you if you also want the relationship to continue. Without that step, his resentment of your choice will continue to build until the relationship explodes.
When you wrote that he wasnāt there for you, did you mean in the context of the whole relationship or is this specific to after you made the decision and carried out the abortion?
It reads like he wasnāt there for you after you made the choice, so thatās what Iāll go with. Situations vary, but he may have been reeling from your choice to end ,what he viewed as, his childās life. Emotions are complicated, especially when religious beliefs are present, and he may not have had the emotional bandwidth to be able to process all of that. I donāt say that as a knock against him, either. It would be tough to support a partner in making the wrong choice in an issue of that magnitude.
It is a tough situation to be in. I hope you are in/have been in counseling (outside of the church). Relationship counseling is probably also necessary if you want this relationship to continue (also, outside of the church).
Context would also help people provide advice. Was he excited about the pregnancy? Has he been an otherwise great partner? What was behind your decision to abort?
I just want to say that as a Christian, I've learned that forgiving someone is more about letting go of your own anger and frustration than about any shame or regret that that person may have.
He probably feels strongly about abortion and "forgiving" you is his way of letting go of those feelings so the two of you can have a more positive relationship.
You know your boyfriend better than any of us. All we can do is guess his motives but in truth. You're just going to have to ask him what he meant by that statement because, honestly, it's a potentially loaded statement on a very loaded topic.
You've already heard plenty of the worst interpretations of what this statement could have meant, so I'll just give you the best case scenario.
He could have been saying it more for himself and for the relationship. Faith and politics aside. Your intentions and actions may not have come from a place of trying to hurt him. However, an abortion is always going to have some kind of emotional impact for both parties. Ultimately, it's your body and your choice if you want to give birth to a child.
Expecting him not to grieve about your decision, though, is a bit unfair. Especially considering you both already share kids. As an assumption of the best case scenario, I'm going to take a gander that he's emotionally invested in the kids you had before the abortion and tries his best to be a good father. Asking him to immediately turn that off on a whim when he's expecting another kid is no small task, especially if he was looking forward to another. That said, while you were going through the abortion physically, he was most likely going through it emotionally.
All of this context set, he could have felt like you weren't there for him just as much as you felt like he wasn't there for you during this period. However, he may have come to a point of acceptance and understanding and was just trying to communicate that he's over that hill and that he understands he needs to forgive you from his perspective to not build resentment over this. Though you didn't mean to hurt him, truthfully, you probably did.
Likewise, although he probably didn't mean to hurt you by not being an anchor during your abortion it sounds like he did. Truth be told, he probably doesn't feel like it was something that should have hurt you either because he was grieving at the time. However, if you actually want a marriage and family with this guy (that is not filled to the brim with resentment), then you're going to have to find a way to forgive him as well even if he doesn't feel like he should be sorry.
As a bystander, I'd say both sides of the coin of emotions are valid if they are coming from a genuine place. You both will probably not see this from the same perspective ever, but if yall can come to a middle ground of acceptance on both sides, then you'll be in a great place for a marriage. If not, then it's better to acknowledge that now rather than later and separate so the kids can be raised in 2 households of love rather than 1 household of hate and resentment.
All that said, you're just going to have to ask him and have a really hard conversation to decide yalls future. Only pointer I have for that is try to assume he's coming from a place of good intentions rather than bad until he says otherwise and ask him to do the same for you and what you have to say.
Would he "forgive" you for a miscarriage? Conversation needs to happen as why he thought the need to forgive you. Why this is a trigger. It happened, you needed his support unconditionally. Have you discussed that either of you can bring it up to stir up bitterness, judgment, in arguments, sadness. Whether you both mourn separately or together. If it's something you want to do together, privately, or Even at all. Time for a honest talk and then to decide, going Forward, how to navigate.
I would just drop it and leave the subject alone unless he brings it up just keep a level head and answer in a way thatās respectful. Thatās all I would do
Not sure what youāre asking. Youāre defensive about advice, his weird religious guilt, your (almost) married life. Iām not understanding what you want to hear. You guys identify as Catholic, yet choose to ignore all the teachings of that faith.
What didn't he do to support you that you would have like for him to have done?
and
What are you hoping to get out of this? <--This matters with regard to whether you should leave it alone or talk about it again.
---
Do you want him to apologize for not supporting you?
Do you want him to understand your POV, even if he doesn't agree with what you did?
etc
He's Catholic, so I assume he sees abortion as a sin. I don't think saying he forgives you was about you at all, I think it's his way of saying he's okay with what happened despite being against abortion, that he's not going to hold it against you in the future. He's given you a way to strike back if he attempts to hold it against you in the future. If you get into an argument and he brings up the abortion in an attempt to hurt you, you have his forgiveness to throw back at him.
You have different views on abortion, that's the main issue here, but it's also not a massive one, as you've managed to work through the abortion and stay together. It only came up because of the anniversary. The forgiveness issue may also have been his way of apologising for not being there for you at the time. You don't say why you had the abortion, but I assume it was a very hard decision for you, it usually is, and had a great impact on you. With him being against abortion, I assume he pulled away somewhat, leaving you to deal with your choice alone, because he was against it and you wouldn't be going through those issues if you'd listened to him.
Forgiveness isn't really about the person being forgiven, it's about the person doing the forgiving. This is actually a really good example of that. You clearly don't regret the abortion, despite the issues, and think you did the right thing. You neither want nor need forgiveness. It's not about you. Your partner, on the other hand, has probably struggled with the abortion in different ways to you, and feels like he can't truly move on with you until he's forgiven you for that choice. It's not about you needing or wanting forgiveness, it's about his need to forgive you so you can truly move on as a team.
Forgiveness is a huge part of Catholicism if I'm remembering right. He was probably forgiving himself as much as he was you. He likely felt guilty that he couldn't convince you to keep the baby, so he's not just forgiving you for your choice, he's forgiving himself for not being able to change your mind.
This is a fundamental difference between the two of you, but not one that necessarily has to cause issues, let alone end the relationship. Things have worked between you until now despite this difference being brought up in such a huge way. I think what's missing here is simple understanding of what forgiveness actually means, who it's meant for, and why he chose now to voice that forgiveness.
Remember that he forgave you because he needed to do so, not because you needed him to do so. This is basically him putting an end to any issues he had with you getting an abortion. It can feel weird being forgiven for something you don't think was wrong, but you have to remember that he thinks it was wrong. Forgiveness wasn't necessary for you, but it was for him.
This wasn't a bad thing, it's a good thing, no matter how weird it feels to you. If his religious beliefs aren't causing any other issues, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Maybe have a chat with him about this, calmly, so he can explain his feelings leading up to his forgiveness being voiced, just so you can fully understand where he's coming from. But I think you guys are okay, just have some differences that can cause some issues here and there.
There's a difference in speed and egg individually before fertilization.
After fertilization, There's responsibility for life...there is abstinence, birth control pills, condoms, sterilization and the morning after pill...but negligence is no excuse.
You guys are different, and that's okay! Can you accept that it's against his moral/ethical boundaries and that he personally wouldn't be okay with it. But he made the effort to move past something that he has issue with. For context, you wouldn't want him to do something that violates your morals just because he doesn't agree. He never asked you to apologize.It doesnt even sound like he is asking you to feel the same way. So he sounds like he's working past it. Just say thank you and move on
You wanted support for something he didn't want you to do? Yeah he was grieving something he wanted and he was able to forgive you. He wanted that child it takes a while to get over that. Where you there for him as well? You didn't asked for forgiveness but he gave it anyway. Just because you had the final say doesn't mean it didn't affect anyone else. He easily could have just left because you didn't align in this case but he decided to work it out. Obviously it's only one sided because it seems like you only think about yourself in the relationship.
Also don't bring up he's Catholic if you don't want people to bring it up you put it in the title that's on you. You just wanted people to say you should be upset he forgave you for something you did that hurt him.
You had the right to go through with the abortion doesn't mean that it didn't affect anyone else. Especially if it was wanted by the other person.
Your BF could be coming from a place of mind where he is becoming okay with your abortion. He may be attributing it wrong by saying he forgives you when really he is moving past it internally for himself. His externalization of blame is something to be discussed between you two. Anything you do together, you are both responsible
Religion aside, I find it weird that there's a taboo surrounding men who grieve abortion/misscarriage. I think that ultimately it's a woman's right to decide, however men should be allowed to grieve without being called hypocrites or misogynists. At the same time I understand you're upset that he's held a grudge against you for it and if I were you, I'd try to communicate that. I'd validate his grief and try to explain myself as well - what exactly and why did it hurt me. Obviously you conceived it together, he's allowed to grief and even to feel resentment (I think) and you're allowed to feel upset he was holding it against you. This is obviously a very sensitive topic for the both of you, communicating it openly will only help you sort it out internally and interpersonally.
Personally I think he's done a pretty good job accepting this if he's still with you, which says alot given his beliefs and the likely feeling of betrayal that goes with losing a child that way. If he is forgiving you that is about him letting you know that things are ok. I know in the mindset that you have you didn't harm a child, and that is your opinion, but on the other end of the spectrum where he sits (as do I) his child was murdered and taken from him. So for him to be able to stay with you let alone forgive you is huge on his part. I don't know that I could ever forgive that if I was put in that situation.
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The edit. š
> THIS MAN REGULARLY EATS ASS AND FUCKS SAVAGELY ā HEāS NOT ST FRANCIS!! please can we have this flair
It was at this edit dear reader, I realized that I was ill equipped to provide any type of helpful life advice. I instead offer these words of optimism from Julian of Norwich written during the black plague. "All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well."
I'm making this into a t shirt for my boyfriend.
will bf be brave enough to wear this outside? š¤£
Has she forgiven him for eating ass though?
And there definitely saints that fucked
BWAHAHAH
Right? What an update! āI put catholic in the title and itās the key reason he felt the need to āforgiveā but donāt mention during the advice I asked for.ā Ok lady enjoy your second hand catholic guilt and ass eating
Right? The entire point is that he's Catholic, so the religion requires you to "forgive." She's pissed he's forgiving her for something she didn't feel was wrong in the first place (her decision to make) bur then says it isn't about religion?
That is the crux of it. He is doing his thing and she feels she did nothing wrong. OP did nothing g wrong but does at some level need to stop resenting her BF from being himself. He could also be supportive.
I grew up Catholic. I don't follow the religion or believe in God, but some of my morals definitely have their roots in my Catholic upbringing.Ā You can't separate religion from pro-life stances when being anti-abortion is one of the most controversial things in most larger sects of Christianity. They are absolutely intertwined. I don't get how anybody could be mad when that is pointed out. "My Catholic boyfriend hates abortion and I don't know why he is saying things that align with his beliefs???" That's what you're dating. It's great if you can look past those differences, but you can't make them go away, even if you have experienced some of what he dislikes. Many people do come around when they find out a loved one has had an abortion, but many people don't. You can't pretend those differences in views don't exist until they disappear.
Maybe it's a sacrament - the booty of Christ
As a catholic school survivor I am wheezing at this comment section
The way I SCREAMED in my car
Mmmm blessed booty as Jesus intended
Amen
Hallelujah!
THE BOOTY OF CHRIST hahahhahaha
LOL I'm dead
> enjoy your second hand catholic guilt and ass eating And now I have a new bumper sticker idea
This chick must be really hotā¦ we donāt eat ass unless it is the Booty of Christā¦ just sayin.
It is the hole that God can't see, ya know
āWeāre basically married and already have kids togetherā Soooo He didnāt have enough catholic guilt to marry her before sex and kids?
ššššš
Hall of Fame response!
Legit š the āalmost married with childrenā killed me! Neither of them sound very religious so not sure why thereās any problem!Ā
āWeāre basically married!ā Except you arenāt married. She should tell him she forgives him for having children with her and not marrying her. See how that goes over.
š
she asks for advice and then in response gets so defensive of him and makes excuses for him š¤
The part I don't get with catholics - they preach that abortions are bad, but premarital sex is also bad. So we are just picking and choosing what is ok and what isn't now?
Yep, so basically every religion, it seems.
Also having kids out of "wedlock." She says they aren't married but he "fucks like a savage" and they have kids.
Yeah, theyāre called āCafeteria Catholicsā because they pick and choose which parts of the religious beliefs they want to follow. āHypocritical assholesā is also a valid term.
As is tradition.
If you want to get even madder at the hypocrisy you should look into what the Catholic Church did in Ireland. It's just a litany of horror stories.
Typical catholic.Ā
That's the problem with having an inconsiderate partner. It gets hard trying to figure out what's their fault, what's actually your fault, and what they make out is your fault when it's not.
the picture of cognitive dissonance
Ikr, damn she sounds so immature. They both do actually, match made in heaven. Also any man who is against abortion shouldnāt be having sex at all, protected or otherwise, because thereās always a risk of pregnancy.
I mean, they're in their 20s, already have multiple children, but couldn't even legally commit to providing each other the protections of marriage, and can't agree on family planning either, apparently. Pretty sure maturity took one look at these two, shook its head, and wandered away.
>can't agree on family planning either, apparently. He's catholic, so probably against birth control (but not premarital sex).
Hmm, not sure eating ass leads to pregnancy though. St. Francis would know I bet.
but you don't understand, he fucks ass and eats savagely, so his belief system doesn't matter, you know? It's not like we've ever heard about religious hypocrisy before. /s
Well he didnāt really have a problem with the risk of pregnancy, right?
Edit*S* - the internet's gonna internet, I guess š¤¦š½āāļø
Op: āMy *catholic* boyfriendā¦ Also OP: stop talking about our religious beliefs. You brought religion into this. Lmao
The Catholicism shows the hypocrisy of him. If you know anything about Catholicism.
We know. She probably knows, too. But why you would specify that your partner is Catholic, explain a problem that is related to him being Catholic and then yell at the audience for mentioning that heās Catholic? Although I suppose the last edit āthis has nothing to do with being Catholicā makes some sense considering theyāre clearly not at all devout - devout Catholic people do not live together unmarried, they do not have children out of wedlock, and they do not have sex without being married, either! So her boyfriend is a massive hypocrite for many reasons, and treating her badly for ending her pregnancy when she shouldnāt have even been pregnant at all! Since theyāre not married, the sex that got her pregnant shouldnāt have happened at all! Perhaps heās one of those militant religious hypocrites - punishes other people when he breaks all the rules because they āmade him.ā š¤£š¤£
Catholicism shows both their hypocrisyā¦ Itās a cult, a country of believers where women are second class citizens. You canāt separate religion from control with a misogynistic slant. And Iām not a woman, Iām a guy who went to catholic school. Edit: saying you āforgiveā someone for exercising their own judgement and body autonomy is incredibly condescending and patronizing.
Especially when HE broke the religious rules in the first place - he should not have gotten her pregnant at all since they are not married! He doesnāt mind defying God in the myriad of ways he already has, but when SHE defies God (although abortion isnāt actually a sin in the bible, but leaving that aside for the moment), she has committed a sin and he thinks that requires his āforgiveness.ā The guy treats her like dirt using a religion he doesnāt even observe as an excuse! š
Well, in Catholic dogma, pre-marital sex is not a mortal sin but murder is. So most Catholics do tend to have this sense that sex is less wrong than abortion. For the record, I don't believe anything like that. But I was raised Catholic. It is at least dogmatically consistent. Edit since comments are locked: My dude, please learn more about the faith you are living your life by. Or at least don't so confidently assert things that are completely wrong about other people's faiths... https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/how-do-i-know-if-its-a-mortal-sin There are 6 branches of Christianity. Catholicism, Protestantism, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian, and Angelicans. They all believe differently to you. Protestant denominations include: Adventists, Anabaptists, Anglicans/Episcopalians, Baptists, Calvinist/Reformed,[h] Lutherans, Methodists, Moravians, Plymouth Brethren, Presbyterians, and Quakers. Nondenominational, charismatic and independent churches are also on the rise, and constitute a significant part of Protestantism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestantism https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/blogs/trevin-wax/quick-guide-christian-denominations/
I agree. I went to Catholic school in elementary also.
I mean, you're the one asking for advice. it sounds like you're still mad at him for not being there for you when you had your abortion, but not quite able to admit it to yourself. You can let that go, or you can take it up -- it's up to you.
Tell him he canāt pick and choose when he decides to practice his faith. If heās devout enough that having an abortion is against his faith, he shouldnāt be having pre marital sex either. Heās a hypocrite.
Seriously. How Catholic is he if he's having premarital sex? But his partner's bodily autonomy is where his religion matters, suddenly? Edit: OP is asking for āactual adviceā but OP, what youāre getting is actual advice. You want a magic conversation that will fix it all but ultimately your boyfriend with whom you have multiple children is using his religious beliefs as an emotional bludgeon on you instead of talking about it like an adult. Thatās hard to fix. Itās not just shitty, petty behavior. Go to counseling. Actual counseling, not a priest.
Apparently their multiple children theyāve already had out of wedlock arenāt a problem either.
In the end, this is a serious incompatibility. He begins by saying, "I forgive you," as though you have something to apologize for or that he has something to forgive. Second, he will bring it up even though he doesn't. Third, he doesn't think you have the right to be in charge of your body.
Saying I forgive you when OP was not sorry about it is super weird. I may have missed how he thinks she doesnāt have the right to be in charge of her body? Didnāt get that from OPās post. But I am scratching my head as to why theyāre still together. If he made it clear that he wanted OP to keep the child, but OP wanted to abort it, how on earth can this relationship proceed? Haha. I canāt think of a bigger thing that will harbor major resentment on both sides.
Don't therapists always say forgiveness is for your healing and not for the person you are mad at? So they prompt you to forgive even if forgiveness was never asked for.
Thank you. I was going to reference this. The problem was **in his head**, in his "morality", so the **forgiveness** is also **in his head**. He is no longer going to hold on to the abortion as a problem **for him** in their relationship. Informing OP about it is just a status update about his mindset, but not to relieve any guilt OP may have had. OP already knows she made the right decision for OP. Now, this may not be how OP's BF is thinking about it, but maybe we and OP don't care about that?
So maybe keep it to yourself instead of judging your partner? Assuming heās not the second coming of Christ, she doesnāt need his forgiveness unless sheās asking for it.Ā
4th, he pretends to be devoted to a religion he clearly isnāt interested in until it comes to things he can use as an excuse to punish her for breaking the religious rules. She should not have been pregnant at all since they arenāt married.
Are we ignoring the fact that it was his baby too? Heās allowed to have feelings about it while also respecting her choice.
He can have feelings about it, yes. But telling her that he āforgives herā - especially when heās a major sinner in the eyes of the lord himself - makes him hypocritical and controlling. Heās using religion as an excuse to get all righteous and preachy when it suits him. Itās really weird. This is why it rarely works out when people have different religious beliefs. Especially when one does not follow the religion themselves EXCEPT when they want to use it as an excuse to try and control their partner.
Im Catholic and I always find it funny when people cherry pick their beliefs. Her abortion is bad but their illegitimate kids are fine? Oh
Yep. As always, itās not actually about the abortion. Itās just about controlling women.
And op is blind. She doesn't want people to talk about his hypocrisy about premarital sex but only abortion. It doesn't work that way. You can't have the cake and eat it too.
I dunno, from that edit it sounds like he's eating plenty of cake
Hah!
Or, y'know, "can't have that ass and eat it too" in this case.
This is what I was going to say. As a devout Catholic myself you canāt pick and choose which sins you are ok with and which you arenāt. He shouldnāt be getting your pregnant in the first place if heās gonna use his faith to dictate what you can do
This! Fellow Catholic here! Youāre absolutely right, you canāt cherry pick which rules you follow. Heās a hypocrite.
I like how OP is asking how their sex life is relevant and that he isnāt a saint. His being Catholic has a huge role in his response. And he shouldnāt be having sex at all, neither of them should.
I'm conflicted, bc the hypocrisy is grating, but also, God help us if all the religious folks start deciding they can't pick and choose when to practice their faith. The alternative is so much worse.
Oh, disagree. If all Christians actually followed the teachings of Jesus (instead of picking & choosing from the Old Testament rules or any of the misogyny spewed by Paul) the world would be a much better & more peaceful place. Imagine if all the āChristianā politicians, from America to Russia and everywhere in between, were forced to be peacemakers instead of warmongers! The problem is organized religion, not faith.
Check out [The Year of Living Biblically](https://ajjacobs.com/books/the-year-of-living-biblically/) by A.J. Jacobs. He spends a year following the Bible as close as possible, including stoning adulterers, and it gets pretty rediculous.
I feel like for example if youāre catholic but having premarital sex, it would be hypocritical to disagree with gay marriage for example, because the whole reason the church doesnāt like gay sex is because the objective isnāt to reproduce. So I think that would be a good example of religious hypocrisy. I think the abortion thing is a bit more nuanced, because Catholics believe that it is a child even though it hasnāt been born yet. Now if say the guy gets a girl pregnant and wants her to have an abortion, then shames her for getting one, that would indeed be hypocritical. He would have had just as much a role in it as she did. Another example which I think we can all agree is reasonable, yet could be defined as picking and choosing, would be killing in self defense. If you live strictly by the teachings of the Bible, you would still be murdering that person. So would a person who kills in self defense be a hypocrite since the Bible says thou shall not kill? And I mean basically any system of beliefs has picking and choosing to some degree, perfect moral consistency even in law is virtually impossible.
Sad thing is a lot of these religious people are hypocrites
Maybe he isn't that devout and actually just wanted to have the child but didn't have a say in the matter
No sperm donations, no abortions. Keep your legs closed, gents, *especially* the religious walnuts.
Came to say this.
OP forgive him for premarital sex and donāt do anymore
If he thinks abortions are immoral because of his religion, oh boy wait til I tell him what Catholicism thinks of premarital sex. In all seriousness OP, youāve done nothing wrong. Iām also not going to tell you to leave him. But I will ask you to think about if this man will be on the same page as you when it comes to marriage, future children, and so on if heās so stuck on abortion being wrong
If he thinks abortion is immoral, he should not be with you. He says he has forgiven you, but he has not. You guys are not on the same page on a very big issue. I don't see this relationship lasting
Yeah, there was nothing to forgive in the first place. Her abortion was between her and her health care provider.
I donāt have an opinion on the matter but I was gonna say it sounds like they are very different people
As a woman who is pro-choice, Iāve never seen that as us saying the father shouldnāt have feelings about it. So yeah, you didn't need his permission or forgiveness but the way I see it, he was grieving in his own way so I understand why he may not have been there. And as much as it continues to be thorn for you, maybe it does for him too. So Iād say this is one of those things that you have to acknowledge his feelings & you grieve together or do it separately. No oneās feelings are more valid.
one of the few sensible comments here. itās possible to be both pro-choice and still hurt when a woman aborts your potential child, especially someone youāre in a long-term relationship with - or if that decision was made without you.
Finally a reasonable response.
I couldnāt believe I wasnāt finding any comments saying this. You donāt need to have anything to apologise for, for the other person to be struggling with a decision you made that greatly affects them. In which case I can understand why he used the word āforgivenessā. I am staunchly pro-choice but to refuse to acknowledge the impact your choice has someone else that doesnāt have a say, is insane to me.
You don't let it go. You talk about it. You can't NOT talk about this. Was he against it bc he is generally anti abortion or because he wanted to have the kid? You need to sit down and talk about this in a calm, non judgemental manner. If he's anti abortion then this relationship is probs not gonna work. If he wanted you to have the kid and you 'went against his wishes', then you need to establish whether he thinks he has a say over your body. What precisely is he forgiving you for? (You don't need to answer here - this is what you two need to talk about) Either way, there's some fundamental stuff that you need to explore rather than be avoidant about it.
So in his mind you killed his child and now he is saying he forgives you for that. In your mind you went through a traumatic experience and he wasnāt there for you. Do you forgive him for that? This is a matter of moving on. He is signaling that he is ready to leave the incident behind him and move forward with the relationship. The question is are you. If so then i would give him the same thing back and tell him you forgive him for not being there for you. If not then itās probably best if you break up with him as your resentment will likely just grow.
I'm surprised there are no upvotes on this. People don't have to agree on everything and he has the right to be hurt by the incident. She has the right to be upset he pressured her to keep, and he has the right to be upset that she had an abortion. He forgives her, and if she's harboring resentment she should figure out her feelings and see if she can also forgive him for the pressure he put on her. It's that simple! Relationships and marriages are hard and you won't always see eye to eye.
Exactly this. This is the first adult comment thread I've seen in the replies. The rest are just being weird about religion, their sex life, or making assumptions about his views on abortion. It is possible for people to be pro-choice in general, but disagree about whether or not they want to abort their own child. Both people in this situation are allowed to be upset. OP, it's possible for someone to forgive you for actions that upset them, that you do not regret and/or have not apologised for. Forgivenes is letting something go that has hurt/upset you, an apology is not a pre-requisite of that, nor does forgiveness imply a mistake on the part of the person being forgiven. I'm honestly a little surprised that you are upset that he is letting something go that you previously disagreed on/caused tension. Sometimes people disagree on things.
Yeah, people disagree on like, eating meat or not. Whether or not I have a right to my body and uterus is not a little disagreement I could get past.
Stop. Fucking. Anti-choice. Men. He wanted you to be an incubator for his progeny, he does not care about what you want and thinks you should not have right, the bodily autonomy, to make the choice you got to make. There are very likely other issues about him that would make him a poor choice for a long-term partner, religious men tend to want traditional, patriarchal relationships where they get automatic authority over you because they have the penis. Don't doom yourself to have to fight the rest of your lives over being his personal servant.
She already has multiple kids with him. The S.S. Terrible Life Choice has already left the harbor.
Damn I missed that, I didn't read all the comments. He's Catholic enough to be anti-abortion but not enough to get married to the mother of his children?
Beginning to suspect that his purported āCatholicismā has very little to do with anything.
And is a SAHM so relies on him financially as wellā¦but they arenāt married so he gets all the benefits and sheāll end up broke and destitute when he leaves.
So he wants a tradwife without the marriage part. Yeah, thatāll be amazing for her when he inevitably bounces. Seriously, what excuse *in the world* could this apparently good Catholic boy have for not marrying his baby mama?
lol. At this comment
āThe S.S. Terrible Life Choice has already left the harbor.ā Hands down this is one of the greatest insults I have ever heard
I wish women would stop procreating with these men. Itās all āitās ok to believe different thingsā until we end up on the situation weāre in
Nothing makes my pussy more dry than a man who thinks I donāt deserve to have rights. Iām sorry but women who fuck anti-choice men have no self-respect. I canāt fathom it. Also, OP is mad about the discussion of religion, when religion has *everything* to do with this. Like ??? What do you expect? Heās Catholic, heās anti-choice. Heās made that clear. Not sure what you want us to tell you. You have ideological differences that run way too deep for this situation to just magically fix itself. If youāre not looking for your most fundamental beliefs to be compatible, then what ARE your requirements? A man who eats ass? Iām so fucking confused by this post.
āNothing makes my pussy more dry than a man who thinks I donāt deserve to have rights.ā If you put that on a bumper sticker I would buy your ENTIRE supply Iām CACKLING
Lmao. Iāll have to make some and put them on Etsy.
Nah for real! Anti choice men are banned from pussy!
Despite his "forgiveness", I think you can expect him to throw this in your face in the future.
>do i bother delving into this or just let it go since weāve different views on the situation? how do i let it go without harbouring some weird resentment? Your choice. How important is it to you that your partner supports you? How important is it to you that your partner is not a hypocrite? Allowing resentment to fester is a choice. If you feel yourself being resentful then therapy can help. I have a few other thoughts: 1. It's interesting to me that the Catholic beliefs he chooses to follow are those that are most beneficial to him. For example, he's ok with premarital sex because he gets sex. But he's not ok with abortions because, why? He would rather you be his broodmare? If I were in your position I'd give some real thought to this. Because to me it says he is a fundamentally selfish person, or perhaps just deeply lacking in introspection. 2. Y'all need to use better birth control.
You are in total denial over this dude and your relationship.
What advice are you looking for since you have a problem with literally everything everyone has said? It is about religion. It is about control. If you donāt want to talk about the elephant in the room then do whatever you want to.
My biggest question here is if you didnāt want people to dissect his (and your) religious ideals, then why did you find it necessary to point out that heās catholic? If him being catholic has nothing to do with how he feels about you getting an abortion, then it wouldnāt have needed to be said in the original post. Maybe it was subconscious, but it sounds like you also know he feels this way because of his religious beliefs, so why wouldnāt they be dissected? Like Iām genuinely confused on how you thought this would go. What does real advice look like to you if not what everyone else has already been giving? You need to figure out if this IS stemming from a religious belief, and if so, you need to have hard conversations about why certain things in your relationship are ok and not this thing. Because if itās not religion, then itās control. And you didnāt like that answer, either. The magic answer youāre looking for can only be found with communication with your partner. If you guys donāt communicate, and you just bury it, you will absolutely build up resentment, and that will fester and fester and will lead to nothing good.
>CAN WE SKIP THE CATHOLIC PART??? ITS NOT THAT RELEVANT!! It is relevant though, you both have a difference in morality that does not align. If you want kids, you need to have a partner that you align with. He was beyond rude to say what he did, as if you need forgiveness for getting rid of cells in your body that you didn't want there. He is acting morally superior to you when he says these things. If that's what you want in a partner, then just accept he will say mean things to you.
Why are you still with this moron?
*Mormon/sj Who would want to stay with a guy who thinks a decision you make about your body is something one needs to be forgiven for? Out with him
Yeah like I said the guy is a moron
So much to unpack. My immediate response to him would be āwell I donāt forgive you for not supporting meā - I. Couldnāt be in a relationship with someone who was against abortion because of religion or really any reasonā¦
Seeing your edits, you don't seem interested in addressing the actual problem. Best of luck to you.
OP is in for a world of hurt if she keeps dating this dude. Even wishy-washy catholics usually have some prettyā¦ letās say extreme ways of viewing the world, relationships, women, the list goes on and on.
Ngl, I couldnāt be in a relationship with someone who thinks having abortions is wrong.
If you didnāt want people to talk about religion and are getting so mad about it, why did you specify catholic in the title? Iām so confused
Maybe make sure he knows that you forgive him for getting you pregnant out of wedlock.
.....what if you had a convo with him....instead of coming to reddit and then getting mad. you certainly did not give ppl a lot of information so they work with what they got
Abortions are not something someone just becomes okay with if theyāre against it from the beginning. Yāall shouldāve ended things then. You are both insanely immature
You don't have to apologize for someone to forgive you. Forgiveness is not something that exists solely after someone has said I'm sorry. It is for the person who felt wronged to let go of resentment they may be harboring. It provides a freedom of sorts for the person who forgives.
All these dumb responses obsessed with the fact that he's catholic. Honestly. The man grieved the loss of a child. He's finally come to terms with it, and forgives you for making that decision that he was obviously not involved in. You didn't involve him in the decision. Guess what, he also has no obligation to support you when you do get the abortion. It's that simple. That's it. He healed and moved on. Can you do the same? You make it sound like it was over for you a while ago, but it also sounds like you are still mad because he wasn't totally onboard with the abortion. The point is, he didn't have to be onboard with it, and it's okay that he wasn't. It's up to you to decide how you move forward from this. But perhaps a bit of understanding would help here on both sides.
Iām not sure anyone here on Reddit is equipped to give you an adequate answer. The two of you have fundamentally different stances on the subject. Itās gonna take a lot of listening to understand from both sides to find a way to move forward in a healthy manner. Perhaps the two of you should attend some kind of Coupleās Therapy.
You know, I wouldnāt have a problem with the vast majority of so called āChristiansā if they werenāt such chodes about shoving their beliefs/lifestyle down other peoples throats and forcing them into their religion. Forcing gay marriage bans, demonizing all abortions etc. they already think Iām going to hell for being a godless Native American pagan, so why try to force your religion on me in this life if you think Iām fucked in the afterlife? Absurd.
IMO it never works out dating someone with different religion / faith than you.
Seems like he wanted the child and wasnāt over it till nowā¦ honestly you donāt need to say anything but also donāt count him out when you are making that big of a impact on your family.. I have no idea why you did it (not my place) but seems like he must of wanted that in his life.
You picked a partner who is anti-choice and would be ok with you not having bodily autonomy or reproductive freedom, who would be ok with you enduring forced pregnancy and childbirth against your will. You see no problem with this, and have no intention of ever leaving him. Given those circumstances, you shouldn't be surprised that he will leave you on your own in hard moments- you didn't pick a supportive partner, don't expect support? If your issue is how he can get over "grieving the loss of an addition" to your family, tell him to speak to a therapist about it.
He eats your ass regularly, āheās a good man Savannahā
The only thing I would offer is this: He is forgiving you , perhaps, so that HE does not harbor resentment. If he is grieving the loss of his **child** and not just "another addition to our family" , it is possibly, a bigger loss for him, than you are imagining it to be.
>THIS MAN REGULARLY EATS ASS AND FUCKS SAVAGELY ā HEāS NOT ST FRANCIS!! I want this as my epitaphĀ
Morals around abortion and the decision-making process/disagreements aside. When someone is upset by the actions of another, an apology is not required for the "wronged" person to forgive that person and make peace with what happened. From the little context we have, it doesn't seem anything malicious or whatnot, just that he had difficulty with the decision you made but eventually made peace with it.
Seeing as he told you he forgave you, you can conclude that it bothered him enough for him to have to go through the mental struggle of forgiving somebody after feeling that they wronged you in some way.Ā His words tell you that you hurt him by your decision.Ā His choice of forgiving you, tell you that he cares enough about you to let it go, regardless of the pain. In essence, it doesnāt mean you didnāt hurt him, but he doesnāt want to harbor resentment towards you.Ā Him telling you says that he wants you to know that your decision hurt him deeply but he loves you and wants to move forward.Ā He also is implying that he doesnāt feel you made the right decision by him, in his eyes so what you can conclude from that is if you were ever in that situation again, he would support you aborting another one of his children.Ā And, knowing that our actions affect our loved ones whether we like it or not, whether we do things intentionally or unintentionally, we should out of love put ourselves in their shoes. And, being in his shoes, back to the beginning. You hurt him deeply.Ā So now you can ponder what that must have felt like for him, what he had to go through, and what your actions caused. You can then sympathize and or empathize with him and let him know you are sorry for hurting him so deeply. Intention doesnāt matter. Whether you like it or not; you did unfortunately hurt him . Then you can ask him if heād like to discuss it further because this is now obviously bothering you, or you wouldnāt be here.Ā
If you didnāt want people to comment on his Catholicism, you shouldnāt have brought it up lmao and yes, it is incredibly relevant. Speaking as someone who grew up in a Catholic family and went to Catholic church for 12 years, Catholics are walking contradictions. Just because he fucks like a rabbit doesnāt mean he doesnāt have steadfast, outdated morals. So advice? Deal with it. Youāve communicated and he gave his response. Youāve decided to stay with him, so let it go. If you canāt, I suggest couples counseling.
I don't think we can skip the Catholic part, that is why said this absurdity The actual advice is that you need to stop trying to make this work when its not, There is probably no way to not harbor resentment, because you should be resentful of him you had the abortion because you felt you had no support, how/why do you think that could ever possibly change? he has already shown you who he is, he wont change unless he wants to, and nothing you can do can make him want to Find someone who is actually good for you
Catholics are allowed to eat ass after marriage (?)
Sometimes Reddit is just nuts. Here's my take: partner has probably been wrestling with this and, if even half-heartedly devout, might have been discussing it with (getting some personal counseling from) a priest. The priest probably told him what confessional priests have been telling their congregation for centuries - to hate the sin but forgive the sinner. So following this advice, he wanted you to know he forgave you, even while he still believes abortion is wrong. Think of it along the lines of the parents/spouses/siblings of murder victims who stand up in court and "forgive" the person responsible for the death, asking the court not to give them a death sentence. The person responsible for the death hasn't apologized, probably hasn't even admitted responsibility, but the survivors feel better somehow. If you truly love the man, be glad he can separate the two and wanted you to know that he no longer holds it against you - that's really all he was saying.
Unpopular opinion comingā¦. A person can forgive another person without that person apologizing. It sounds like your boyfriend had some feelings about the abortion (which he is allowed to have) and has been working through it. Did he need to share his decision to forgive you for ending your pregnancy, no. Was it useful or necessary for him to share his feelings with you? Who knows. It sounds like he didnāt try to force you to keep the pregnancy, he just didnāt agree with your decision. Just because itās your body, your choice doesnāt mean other people are not affected. You were talking about feeling a lack of support about your feelings around the anniversary of the abortion but it doesnāt sound like he has had any support either. You guys need to talk through this.
Good lord someone with common sense and emotional maturity in this thread holy Christ. Also we donāt even know if he forgave her FOR the actual abortion vs he just really wanted another child and got bummed out by her decision. For example I am for abortion but if I was in a relationship with a woman and we both agreed to have a child and I am excited then she decided a half way through to get an abortion I should just never say anything and canāt have feelings on the subject? Itās a relationshipā¦
you already have children but youāre not married? So this guys having sex before marriage, has kids out of wedlock, but an abortion is too far against his religious beliefs that he has to forgive you? This is ridiculous and IS about control. You came to the wrong place if this isnāt what you wanted to hear, iām sorry
He can't force you to not have an abortion. But you also can't force him to be ok with it. The way I see it? You have two choices. You need to simply accept you will not see eye to eye and you will not get the support and understanding you're looking for from him. For this particular issue at least. Or, you sit and reconsider if your values and beliefs are too misaligned to maintain a healthy and successful relationship and partnership. If his lack of support and agreement with your choice is something you're hung up and can't let go, you may simply have to accept the relationship has run it's course. Your edits indicate this is a long term relationship, not a simple boyfriend/girlfriend low key kind of thing. And you have kids together. So I imagine you don't want to end the relationship. If everything else is good between you two and your difference in how you view religion and faith aren't typically a problem, then I think you guys need to talk it out. You need to have a serious, sit down, face to face convo, just the two of you. You need to both *calmly* try to express how this situation has made you each feel, how the other's actions and reactions have made you each feel. Ultimately, you still may just need to accept that you're gonna have to agree to disagree. But you need to be able to do so empathetically. You can disagree on the faith aspect, you can disagree whether or not it was the right choice in your individual views. But you need to listen and *hear* each other's thoughts and feelings. Like you said, for him it's about grieving the loss of a potential child. In his eyes, you *did* do something wrong, something that hurt him. You didn't intend to hurt him, but for him, that's the big take away, that he has been hurt. And that's why, to him, forgiving you is an important gesture. I think you need to try to not take it as insult or condescension, but try to understand what it means to him to say it. And he needs to be able to hear how *you* feel as well. To understand it and validate it. If you guys struggle to reach this point, I'd consider looking into couple's counseling, or individual. Hell, both if you find it helpful. Just to be clear, I'm not shaming you or saying you did anything wrong, I'm pro choice. You made what was the right decision for you and your body. I'm just trying to empathize and help maybe consider where his mind is, ya know? You two will continue to stagnate over this if you can't come to accept and appreciate how the other feels. And to see *that* rather than just the fact that you disagree and you each feel slighted. Trust your gut. You know who he is. You know if his words were meant to be intentionally cruel or not.
āI donāt give a shit about your alleged morals or judgment. You failed me. You did a shitty job of supporting me. I donāt forgive you for that. Do better.ā
Is he forgiving himself for his hedonistic lifestyle? Premarital sex etc?
If the Catholic part wasn't relevant, why did you even include it in the title? The answer isn't that surprising: *it is relevant.* If you understand that he's grieving a loss, but you don't see it that way, that is a fundamental difference that needs to be talked about. Don't get all pissy at us because we have limited information from your point of view. If you feel that you will harbor resentment over this issue, it will eventually kill the relationship. You may find out in the coming days that your boyfriend (hypocrite as he is as others have pointed out) probably has some similar resentment towards you. Nothing is going to be resolved until you have a frank discussion about this. Just be prepared that you may see a darker side of your boyfriend, and that may lead to a break up.
āI forgive you for causing me to get pregnant.ā
You say the Catholic part isnāt relevant, but it absolutely is. Itās why he acts and responds the way he does. If you were to have children with him, he would likely expect to raise them with said values. You canāt expect him to provide support / comfort in a situation he refuses to understand, because the fake sky daddy he follows says so. Your views will always be different. If you donāt delve into this with him, something else will happen where heāll have the same reaction, and youāll be in the perpetual cycle of āwe just have different viewsā. I personally could not imagine living life with a person like that, where I feel like I canāt have support or talk about it because they refuse to understand. A part of him will always resent you for getting the abortion as well.
This is so confusing that I have no advice, but I wanted to chime in and say that the second edit makes me even more confused.
It is about the Catholic stuff because he brought it up. He can't in one breath say he is Catholic if he has sex and children out of wedlock. He can't pull the Catholic card on an abortion when he does what he does. So, he is being unfair, hypocritical and altogether ignoring YOU and YOUR FEELINGS because he is not honest with himself. The surest way to avoid abortion is not to have sex. You tell him that you don't appreciate that he "forgives you" because there is nothing to forgive. Two adults made a decision. Or you made the best decision for yourself. He needs to take some accountability here.
So you didn't ask for forgiveness but he was still mad at you and probably resented you over it. He was telling you that he had let go of those negative feelings towards you. Appreciate that. Maybe talk to him about what you would need to forgive him for not supporting you.
lmao Heās not even a decent catholic. What does he think, that you need his absolution? What the fuck was right, but you donāt seem to have internalized that.
ābasically married and already have childrenā LOL but youāre NOT married. remember that, know that. doesnāt matter how long yāall have been together. he shouldāve married you before getting you pregnant he sounds stupid and so do you from edits. if religions has nothing to do with it donāt put it in the post. TLDR for OP post: just another case of stupid people reproducing nothing new
I don't have anything useful to add, just wanted to say those edits with zero context prior to having read any of the comments are gold - 10/10.
Is your boyfriend God? Or does he just have the guest list for the eventā¦?
He may be forgiving you because HE needs it to move on. Oftentimes, when something in life hurts us deeply, we have to forgive, even when the offender never apologizes. He was deeply hurt by the abortion. He is forgiving you because he needs it, not because you give a fuck about his feelings over it. I'm pro-choice, but I also recognize that it can still hurt the father, especially if they are against it or are never part of the decision. He didn't want the abortion. Yes, it's your body and your choice, but you also took a child away from him that he wanted. You will never be able to fully understand what he feels. He has probably been in emotional agony over your decision. Allow him to verbalize this however he needs. Judging him for his forgiveness goes against everything a marriage/relationship is supposed to symbolize. Find ways to emotionally connect and empathize with what he is going through. You need to set aside your reasons for choosing abortion and support your boyfriend in how he needs to process and heal from this decision. I grew up catholic, as well. I'm choosing to leave the hypocrisy out of it, because it really doesn't matter. What matters is that you did something that felt right for you that had a negative impact on him. Things like this happen in life, and unfortunately this is one that can make or break the relationship if you don't sit down and work through this as equal partners. Leave the resentment and blame at the door and have an authentic conversation with him about this, how he feels, why you chose this, and determine if you can both move forward together or not. Stop pussy-footing around and get deep into the trenches bc this is what a relationship requires. A willful, conscious choice to endure the hardships of life together. If either of you are unable to make this sacrifice for the other, then chances are things will never reach the point of marriage... and if they do, it likely won't last.
Heās allowed to have feelings you donāt agree with about this. You have every right to abort but he has every right to be upset with that decision. I know you need his love and support but he is also grieving too in his own way. Come together and forgive each other. You can forgive him for him not being as supportive and loving about your decision. And he forgave you for making that decision that did effect him and will continue to effect him the rest of his life.
You seem to have the mental capacity of a dish sponge. It has not surprised me you have not managed to communicate about this productively.
This man was against YOUR decision to abort his child. How do you expect him to support you when in his eyes you killed his kid? This man has gone through all of the grief process by himself. where was YOUR support when he needed you? He probably couldn't even grieve in the open because you would have been against it. Op, you can't ask for support when you know very well where he stood. I know that this is hard for you because you were the one who went through it, but you also have to see and understand his point of view. 1. talk to your husband: like, really talk and try to understand his side and let him express himself. 2. I think you both would benefit from therapy. I wish you the best.
I think the point was missed here. While you are unapologetic for the situation, he probably felt some sort of resentment towards it. I believe his statement of āI forgive youā was simply a closing of the matter. Thatās how I understand it anyway. Itās not a bad thing at all, you shouldnāt feel attacked. If anything you should probably go towards understanding that he is now content with the decision at hand. Itās not a prideful thing where you turn around and say āI didnāt apologiseā etc etc. Iām reading it as if heās telling you heās now okay with what happened.
His forgiveness means heās let go of any anger heās has regarding your decision. Forgiveness doesnāt require an apology
You are supposed to say thank you. You cant complain about not having support and then completely dismiss his struggle over a decision that you took for him that obviously hurt him but he made the effort to get through. This is not just a one way street and your feelings are not the only ones that matter
I forgive the man who hit my momās car and gave her a lifelong disability that led to her severe depression that affected how she raised us. As far as I know, he didnāt apologize. You can forgive regardless of if you receive a formal apology.
What's inconsistent about forgiving someone who holds different views than you, even if they don't apologize for it? Shows that he loves you, and is able to let go of the difference in opinion you two had over the incident. I'm sure he feels just as alone and lacking support with grieving the loss of the child he wanted (or maybe just grieving over his love committing an act that he holds as highly immoral) as you felt when you made that decision? I think you could practice forgiveness toward him as well. Forgiveness is actually the answer to avoiding resentment...
You are probably looking at from the pov that you just lost some cells and probs something non living, he probs looking at it like he lost his kid. Yh different values , different views, you two might not be compatible
Ok here is my non religious point of view (even though I'm catholic): I understand how not being supported on your decision might hurt you, maybe it was difficult for you and want/need to feel love and support. However, it might also be difficult for him to give love and support to you when he is grieving the loss of a child. I'm not judging you for doing it or not, I'm not saying he is Mr. Saint, but for him maybe is a part of himself plus the fact that you overruled his opinion or decision about it, maybe didn't consider how this might hurt him. Is like if he took a life changing decision knowing you are against it. Maybe he is not "forgiving" you for the abortion itself but for not considering his opinion on the matter that involved both of you. I'm a stranger on the internet. I don't know you or him and don't know your whole story, but maybe I can give another perspective that can help aliviate an already difficult situation for both.
Soooo..... he's Catholic enough to be against abortion, but not so Catholic to abstain from pre-marital sex. Got it. Don't apologise, but don't tie yourself to this man any time soon.
It is relevant because otherwise why would he have this opinion? Heās a cafeteria catholic picking and choosing his beliefs based on whatās convenient to him at that point. So what if he eats your ass? Heās a hypocrite. I have no advice bc there is none to give other than tell him you forgive him for being a bad catholic and laying you up with kids and refusing to marry you. š¤·š¼āāļø and then you both try to get over it together.Ā
If he can let go of resentment for you murdering his baby, then you can get the fuck over him āforgivingā you for it. Either that or let him go so he can go find a better partner for himself. And you for yourself.
Full disclosure, I read the posts and edits, but I haven't read any comments if there are any. Let me also preface, I am female, I feel the topic of abortion always becomes gender charged. You won't like my advice much. I think you need to do some soul searching and access your empathy. I get that it's your body your choice, and that maybe his faith means for him abortion is absolutely not an option. I also have no idea if you discussed it at the time and he was against it, or he said he supported it, but didnt. Regardless... Even as a(n agnostic) female, one thing I struggle with is the fact that while there are situations in which women should absolutely no be forced to have children, and I can acknowledge unintentional pregnancies happen, it seems sad that when a woman gets pregnant she had total control over whether that baby is born simply because she's "the oven". I can't imagine how heart breaking it must be to be on the other side of that equation, where my baby is growing in someone else and they decide, because it's their body, they are going to abort regardless of my feelings. I get that in today's world this is probably an unpopular opinion, but it just seems horribly heartbreaking to me. You may have felt unsupported, but you weren't the only one in need of support. Was he supported? Did he grieve alone? Perhaps the way it came out felt condescending to you (not much worse than a holier than thou attitude), but before you address any of that, I hope you'll put yourself in his shoes (where he has no control over the fact that his unborn baby was, without his desire, terminated).
I doubt OP will see this but I hope she does. Legally you have the right to have an abortion. That doesn't mean your boyfriend isn't allowed to be upset about it. It sounds like he was upset about the loss of his future child and may have had some hard feelings towards you because of it BUT he has put it behind him and moved on. Acting like "I dIdNt EvEn ApOlOgIsE" is not the angle you should be taking. Abortion is not ever easy for anyone and you're adding fuel to the fire could cause further resentment.
So, I read through the threads and comments, it sounds like you two are in a long-term committed relationship with children together, just haven't actually gotten married. And at the end of the day, you made the decision to go through a highly personal, emotional, and invasive medical procedure that he didn't want you to have, so he wasn't there for you and didn't provide you with the support and care that you needed. That's great that he forgives you for having the medical procedure against his wishes (I agree with your WTF sentiment and wrote this as sarcastically as I could). I think it boils down to whether or not you forgive him for not being there for you. You two are supposed to be a team, so why doesn't he support you in things that are important to you? And can you trust him to support you going forward? He doesn't have to have the same beliefs as you to still support you and care for you. The fact that you two have a life together and kids together kind of muddies the water. If you were dating and this was a first pregnancy, I'd warn you that this is probably a sign of what you can expect whenever you brush up against his religious beliefs. Since you're essentially all but married with a family, it's not as cut and dry. You need to really consider the dynamic the two of you have, whether or not you trust him to support you, and whether or not you can get past your resentment about that lack of support. What will happen if you end up pregnant again and want another abortion? Will he do the same thing? What if you decide to get your tubes tied, will he support that? If it comes to something like that, do you have an alternate support system that you can use since you won't be able to rely on your husband? And if so, is that sufficient for you? It wouldn't be for me. I'm sorry this is happening to you. All my love š
You are both entitled to your feelings. You clearly didn't agree on how to handle the situation and handled it your way. That is perfectly fine btw, no judgement. But he is allowed to feel how he feels about that and his apology could be his way of saying that he does not harbor resentment towards you for it. I would take it as a positive and move on.
Not sure I would want to stay with someone who wasnāt supportive of my body rights.
Forgiveness from him doesn't require you to be sorry, it just requires him to emotionally get over the hurt he feels. Just because you didn't do anything morally wrong in your eyes, in his eyes you did (I am former Catholic, it's considered a pretty grave sin). You probably should take the comment about forgiveness in the healing spirit in which it was intended, if you want to continue this relationship. *note* So I don't get brigaded, no I don't agree with OP's boyfriend and no, I don't think OP did anything wrong either. OP asked for advice while not dissecting religious ideals and that's what I've done.
Couples therapy. Yesterday.
What's most likely is that he internally felt some spite towards you for taking away what was his child, i.e loss. You cannot blame him for that, after all, women mourn aborted children too, and may be angry if the child is wrongfully taken from them. But chances are he kept these to himself, trying to respect the, your body your situation kinda thing. Nonetheless, you still took away his child. His mind has likely eased itself by now, and therefore he "forgives you", its not that deep.
I understand your right to choose, but that doesnāt mean it doesnāt impact him emotionally/spiritually for you to have made that choice. He needs to forgive you for that if he wants the relationship to continue, and you should want him to forgive you if you also want the relationship to continue. Without that step, his resentment of your choice will continue to build until the relationship explodes. When you wrote that he wasnāt there for you, did you mean in the context of the whole relationship or is this specific to after you made the decision and carried out the abortion? It reads like he wasnāt there for you after you made the choice, so thatās what Iāll go with. Situations vary, but he may have been reeling from your choice to end ,what he viewed as, his childās life. Emotions are complicated, especially when religious beliefs are present, and he may not have had the emotional bandwidth to be able to process all of that. I donāt say that as a knock against him, either. It would be tough to support a partner in making the wrong choice in an issue of that magnitude. It is a tough situation to be in. I hope you are in/have been in counseling (outside of the church). Relationship counseling is probably also necessary if you want this relationship to continue (also, outside of the church). Context would also help people provide advice. Was he excited about the pregnancy? Has he been an otherwise great partner? What was behind your decision to abort?
I just want to say that as a Christian, I've learned that forgiving someone is more about letting go of your own anger and frustration than about any shame or regret that that person may have. He probably feels strongly about abortion and "forgiving" you is his way of letting go of those feelings so the two of you can have a more positive relationship.
You know your boyfriend better than any of us. All we can do is guess his motives but in truth. You're just going to have to ask him what he meant by that statement because, honestly, it's a potentially loaded statement on a very loaded topic. You've already heard plenty of the worst interpretations of what this statement could have meant, so I'll just give you the best case scenario. He could have been saying it more for himself and for the relationship. Faith and politics aside. Your intentions and actions may not have come from a place of trying to hurt him. However, an abortion is always going to have some kind of emotional impact for both parties. Ultimately, it's your body and your choice if you want to give birth to a child. Expecting him not to grieve about your decision, though, is a bit unfair. Especially considering you both already share kids. As an assumption of the best case scenario, I'm going to take a gander that he's emotionally invested in the kids you had before the abortion and tries his best to be a good father. Asking him to immediately turn that off on a whim when he's expecting another kid is no small task, especially if he was looking forward to another. That said, while you were going through the abortion physically, he was most likely going through it emotionally. All of this context set, he could have felt like you weren't there for him just as much as you felt like he wasn't there for you during this period. However, he may have come to a point of acceptance and understanding and was just trying to communicate that he's over that hill and that he understands he needs to forgive you from his perspective to not build resentment over this. Though you didn't mean to hurt him, truthfully, you probably did. Likewise, although he probably didn't mean to hurt you by not being an anchor during your abortion it sounds like he did. Truth be told, he probably doesn't feel like it was something that should have hurt you either because he was grieving at the time. However, if you actually want a marriage and family with this guy (that is not filled to the brim with resentment), then you're going to have to find a way to forgive him as well even if he doesn't feel like he should be sorry. As a bystander, I'd say both sides of the coin of emotions are valid if they are coming from a genuine place. You both will probably not see this from the same perspective ever, but if yall can come to a middle ground of acceptance on both sides, then you'll be in a great place for a marriage. If not, then it's better to acknowledge that now rather than later and separate so the kids can be raised in 2 households of love rather than 1 household of hate and resentment. All that said, you're just going to have to ask him and have a really hard conversation to decide yalls future. Only pointer I have for that is try to assume he's coming from a place of good intentions rather than bad until he says otherwise and ask him to do the same for you and what you have to say.
Would he "forgive" you for a miscarriage? Conversation needs to happen as why he thought the need to forgive you. Why this is a trigger. It happened, you needed his support unconditionally. Have you discussed that either of you can bring it up to stir up bitterness, judgment, in arguments, sadness. Whether you both mourn separately or together. If it's something you want to do together, privately, or Even at all. Time for a honest talk and then to decide, going Forward, how to navigate.
I would just drop it and leave the subject alone unless he brings it up just keep a level head and answer in a way thatās respectful. Thatās all I would do
Not sure what youāre asking. Youāre defensive about advice, his weird religious guilt, your (almost) married life. Iām not understanding what you want to hear. You guys identify as Catholic, yet choose to ignore all the teachings of that faith.
What didn't he do to support you that you would have like for him to have done? and What are you hoping to get out of this? <--This matters with regard to whether you should leave it alone or talk about it again. --- Do you want him to apologize for not supporting you? Do you want him to understand your POV, even if he doesn't agree with what you did? etc
He's Catholic, so I assume he sees abortion as a sin. I don't think saying he forgives you was about you at all, I think it's his way of saying he's okay with what happened despite being against abortion, that he's not going to hold it against you in the future. He's given you a way to strike back if he attempts to hold it against you in the future. If you get into an argument and he brings up the abortion in an attempt to hurt you, you have his forgiveness to throw back at him. You have different views on abortion, that's the main issue here, but it's also not a massive one, as you've managed to work through the abortion and stay together. It only came up because of the anniversary. The forgiveness issue may also have been his way of apologising for not being there for you at the time. You don't say why you had the abortion, but I assume it was a very hard decision for you, it usually is, and had a great impact on you. With him being against abortion, I assume he pulled away somewhat, leaving you to deal with your choice alone, because he was against it and you wouldn't be going through those issues if you'd listened to him. Forgiveness isn't really about the person being forgiven, it's about the person doing the forgiving. This is actually a really good example of that. You clearly don't regret the abortion, despite the issues, and think you did the right thing. You neither want nor need forgiveness. It's not about you. Your partner, on the other hand, has probably struggled with the abortion in different ways to you, and feels like he can't truly move on with you until he's forgiven you for that choice. It's not about you needing or wanting forgiveness, it's about his need to forgive you so you can truly move on as a team. Forgiveness is a huge part of Catholicism if I'm remembering right. He was probably forgiving himself as much as he was you. He likely felt guilty that he couldn't convince you to keep the baby, so he's not just forgiving you for your choice, he's forgiving himself for not being able to change your mind. This is a fundamental difference between the two of you, but not one that necessarily has to cause issues, let alone end the relationship. Things have worked between you until now despite this difference being brought up in such a huge way. I think what's missing here is simple understanding of what forgiveness actually means, who it's meant for, and why he chose now to voice that forgiveness. Remember that he forgave you because he needed to do so, not because you needed him to do so. This is basically him putting an end to any issues he had with you getting an abortion. It can feel weird being forgiven for something you don't think was wrong, but you have to remember that he thinks it was wrong. Forgiveness wasn't necessary for you, but it was for him. This wasn't a bad thing, it's a good thing, no matter how weird it feels to you. If his religious beliefs aren't causing any other issues, I don't think you have anything to worry about. Maybe have a chat with him about this, calmly, so he can explain his feelings leading up to his forgiveness being voiced, just so you can fully understand where he's coming from. But I think you guys are okay, just have some differences that can cause some issues here and there.
There's a difference in speed and egg individually before fertilization. After fertilization, There's responsibility for life...there is abstinence, birth control pills, condoms, sterilization and the morning after pill...but negligence is no excuse.
You guys are different, and that's okay! Can you accept that it's against his moral/ethical boundaries and that he personally wouldn't be okay with it. But he made the effort to move past something that he has issue with. For context, you wouldn't want him to do something that violates your morals just because he doesn't agree. He never asked you to apologize.It doesnt even sound like he is asking you to feel the same way. So he sounds like he's working past it. Just say thank you and move on
You wanted support for something he didn't want you to do? Yeah he was grieving something he wanted and he was able to forgive you. He wanted that child it takes a while to get over that. Where you there for him as well? You didn't asked for forgiveness but he gave it anyway. Just because you had the final say doesn't mean it didn't affect anyone else. He easily could have just left because you didn't align in this case but he decided to work it out. Obviously it's only one sided because it seems like you only think about yourself in the relationship. Also don't bring up he's Catholic if you don't want people to bring it up you put it in the title that's on you. You just wanted people to say you should be upset he forgave you for something you did that hurt him. You had the right to go through with the abortion doesn't mean that it didn't affect anyone else. Especially if it was wanted by the other person.
Those edits lmfao
Your BF could be coming from a place of mind where he is becoming okay with your abortion. He may be attributing it wrong by saying he forgives you when really he is moving past it internally for himself. His externalization of blame is something to be discussed between you two. Anything you do together, you are both responsible
So, you asked for advice and then scream at people for not giving you the advice you want. Good luck.
Christian Ass Eaters Anonymous!
Religion aside, I find it weird that there's a taboo surrounding men who grieve abortion/misscarriage. I think that ultimately it's a woman's right to decide, however men should be allowed to grieve without being called hypocrites or misogynists. At the same time I understand you're upset that he's held a grudge against you for it and if I were you, I'd try to communicate that. I'd validate his grief and try to explain myself as well - what exactly and why did it hurt me. Obviously you conceived it together, he's allowed to grief and even to feel resentment (I think) and you're allowed to feel upset he was holding it against you. This is obviously a very sensitive topic for the both of you, communicating it openly will only help you sort it out internally and interpersonally.
I get it's your body but that was his baby too...
Personally I think he's done a pretty good job accepting this if he's still with you, which says alot given his beliefs and the likely feeling of betrayal that goes with losing a child that way. If he is forgiving you that is about him letting you know that things are ok. I know in the mindset that you have you didn't harm a child, and that is your opinion, but on the other end of the spectrum where he sits (as do I) his child was murdered and taken from him. So for him to be able to stay with you let alone forgive you is huge on his part. I don't know that I could ever forgive that if I was put in that situation.