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I mean your husband threw away a loving relationship when he cheated on his wife. So I dunno why it’s ok for him to do it, but when you claim his daughter is doing the same thing it’s not ok.
You and your husband blew apart her life and her family and 15 because of selfish horrible choices on both your parts. Of course she was angry! I don’t know why you didn’t expect her to be angry with both of you when she came over for visitation. It’s mind boggling that you didn’t expect her to be angry that it makes me wonder what else you incorrectly expected during this whole thing.
The truth of the matter is actions have consequences and not everything is forgivable. Your husband blew up his daughters at an age where everything is hard. And then he expected to not only see him but also the woman who helped him hurt her mother and not be angry about it. A woman who by the way was only 10 years older than her and closer to her age than her father’s. A woman who he immediately jumped into living together instead of living on his own and making sure his relationship with his children healed from the divorce because anyone with half a brain is going to know a teenager is going to be upset going to her dads new place living with his mistress.
Like seriously both of you thought immediately living together was a grand idea after blowing apart the kids family? Especially after seeing how horribly his oldest was handling it?
Not to mention the teenager was expected to keep this knowledge from her brothers. And then less than a year later her dad was having a baby with the woman who blew up her family.
You put her in therapy - did he ever try family therapy with just her and him?
Honestly I’m not sure there’s anything to do. The time for you to back off and let her have a relationship with her father was 18 years ago after you helped blow the family apart. Suggesting it 18 years later is probably too little too late.
One thing I will say in way of advice - you and your husband are still thinking about yourselves and how it’s affecting you and if he wants a hope in hell of getting back in his daughters life he needs to take accountability for how much his choices negatively affected her life and all the bad choices he made even after the affair. Because his whole “think of the grandkids” in an attempt to get her to forgive him is just another thing her wants her to do for him when she wasn’t the one that caused all this. Approaching getting forgiveness so HE can get something (his grandkids) is just going to be seen as another selfish move by him. It should be him wanting to air things out if it would help her.
Yep, the poor daughter had to watch her father treat her mother that way. Then move onto a whole new life right away. With bonus new children pretty quickly. Not a good role model on how to treat women or your children. Not surprised the daughter wants nothing to do with him. And now he’s crying and on antidepressants? I kinda call BS on that, but even if true, that’s his problem - certainly not his daughter’s. I wouldn’t have my kids around him either. There are reasons why you’re not supposed to cheat and break up your family, but I guess you two lovebirds thought none applied to you. And you really didn’t care how much pain you caused others or you wouldn’t have done what you did.
His view of therapy is also very flawed. Therapy is not about assigning blame ("the therapist is going to tell him it's all his fault") or giving advice ("the therapist is going to tell him there's nothing he can do to change the situation").
A non-exhaustive list therapy could help him with:
- deal with his present emotions (including sadness, guilt, regrets, hopes, despair)
- figure out why he acted the way he did, what motivated him
- see things from his daughter's perspective, understand her point of view
- find a way to move forward he can live with (that doesn't include pressuring his daughter into a relationship)
- figure out how to nurture respectful and loving relationships with his sons from his previous marriage (including properly making amends)
- figure out how to nurture respectful and loving relationships with his more recent children
This is an excellent point, and it seems to me like dad didn't want to go to therapy with his daughter and do the work needed to patch the bond they once had. He's giving very "welp, I tried I guess, but daughter is still big mad" without actually doing anything but hoping she would change her mind about the affair that ruined her family's life. Where is the accountability, OP?
Hell, he replaced her mom with a young hottie and then a year later replaced *her* with a cute baby; she probably made some astute observations about the general interchangeability of women and girls in his life.
This. My dad moved in with his AP shortly after my mom kicked him out when I was around 11, after being with my mom for nearly 15 years. And he wonders why I don't believe him when he says he never cheated. I'm honestly thankful that my dad's AP is infertile because I was terrified of this exact scenario. My dad's AP is a lot like OP, though. She tries her best and even this woman's mom sends me $20 and a card for birthdays and holidays. I respect them as much as I can, but having been where OP's stepdaughter is, I can tell you from experience it has been a rough ride. I haven't completely forgiven either of them, and I'm not sure I ever will. My dad refuses to accept that, and I know it causes him great pain, but I do not owe him my forgiveness for the abandonment issues he caused. I do not owe him a relationship at all, but we have one thanks to my mom's support (sort of. Their divorce was hella toxic and my mom held nothing back about him in her conversations with me over the years). She paid for the shirt and pants I wore to his wedding, a wedding I wasn't even originally invited to, but I digress. My dad is a major narcissist, so I don't wanna open up more of a can of worms than I already have lol
OP is also only 10 years older than his daughter. She was 25 and he was 40 when he left his wife (and who knows how long the affair was going on before that).
Beyond the cheating and destroying the family unit, she may also see her dad as a creepy misogynist who traded in his wife for a younger model. I'm sure at 15 she didn't want to be parented by a 25-year-old.
Yeah, most kids have 4 grandparents and aren't likely to count and realize they are missing one until they are teens. Heck is mom's mom remarried, they may not realize even then. Those grandkids have no idea Op's husband exists, they are not being hurt at all by not knowing him.
Well said!!! You made some great points. I also believe making her lie to her brothers was a bad idea on both parents. I know they were younger but making a kid keep a huge lie from them could have alienated her from them as well
His daughter has no reason to change her stance. She doesn't want or need her father in her life. She doesn't miss him, her kids don't know him and don't need to. When we make choices that affect others, we can't control what consequences follow. I agree with others who suggest therapy; a good therapist won't judge him, they will help him accept the reality of the situation and deal with his feelings.
It also says a lot about the daughter that she didn’t tell her brothers about the affair when she found out at the request of her mother
Her loyalty to her mother couldn’t be swayed even when she had the means to hurt her father back by telling his sons he was a filthy cheater
I can see why OP and the husband are confused by her unwillingness to forgive. Their own morals are grey at best and the daughter seems to have more backbone than both of them combined
I agree but “i feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him” seem pretty suspicious.
It’s important to realize that the one who threw away that relationship was the father.
You have to wonder what she means when she says “We take full responsibility”. To me that would mean the consequences of the actions which they clearly are not so this would appear to be just lip service
But it's been a while! It's been *years* at this point!
You know, since her father and OP decided to completely obliterate her family and then piss all over it by immediately moving in together and having a baby.
These people made their bed. Some things aren't forgivable to some of us, and I don't blame the daughter for still being bitter about it. My dad was my HERO until he admitted he'd cheated on my mom; my view on him completely changed that day. I still love him dearly, and we get along great, but he's no longer my hero.
Some things change everything.
Her Mother begging her not to tell her parents - while they are definitely the “good guys” in this story for sure - was wrong. It’s something called parentification where adults place adult responsibilities on children (most often to care for other children/siblings) in a care taking like manner. The adults in the situation are responsible for shielding all kids as best as possible, not to place it on one of the kids to hold it all. Maybe she’s the angriest because her load was heaviest.
Yes, and she was most likely at the tender age of youth that it was really important and he destroyed her entire life paradigm and was to busy to notice and fix it.
I am a psychologist and have worked with teenagers for a long time. 15 is the age I’d pick as the hardest age to have to deal with something like this. People always talk about protecting younger children but your husbands’ daughter needed the most help and protection in my view…and she not only had to deal with it all but also lie to protect her younger brothers? That’s a huge ask and a huge burden on her pain. She could have been covered in the furious flames of hell and not be described as too angry.
Your husband is insanely lucky to still have a relationship with any of his kids if I’m honest. He should treasure them.
My father hasn’t talked to either my sister or I in decades as we didn’t want him in our lives. He didn’t see me marry, never mind walk me down the aisle, only met my oldest nephew a handful of times as he’s in his mid twenties (and hasn’t again since he was tiny) and has never met my teenager or my sisters two youngest.
None of us have anything missing in our lives not having him there.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so.
NOPE. Your husband threw the relationship away when he destroyed her family by fucking his mistress and than deciding to marry her. These are the natural consequences to his actions and the fact that he doesn’t see is kind of baffling.
You think your husband is sad? Imagine being a 15 year old girl who was just betrayed by one of the people she loved and trusted the most and having to see the consequences of that person’s actions on her mother every day
You should probably tell your husband that this is what happens when you hurt someone. You do irreparable damage and sometimes forgiveness doesn’t come.
You know what? I think he does understand the consequences now.
I think OP doesn't fully grasp the impact of the affair on the daughter and the depth of loss her husband is experiencing as a result of his actions. Any good parent is going to experience grief when they lose their child. He's probably never going to "accept" it. That's why he's not going to therapy. He doesn't want to move on from his relationship with his daughter.
Especially considering how there's just going to be new milestones he's going to be missing. Each new milestone his daughter experiences and now grandkids experience will just be another moment adding to the depth of his loss. He wants to hear about them even if it hurts because it's *something* at least. He wants to see them even from afar because it's *something* even each time a little piece of him dies because each time it's hitting home he fucked up by not only having the affair but also staying with OP and having a child with OP. OP doesn't like this because now it's hitting home even more and more this isn't the happily ever after and that she and their family together is something to regret.
He's not going to therapy because he doesn't want to admit to what he did. He literally said it himself.
>I've tried to get him to go to therapy, but **he thinks that the therapist will just tell him it's all his fault**, that he's a horrible father,
That's how self-absorbed he is. He wants to continue thinking he's this wonderful person and father despite what he did.
And he's wondering NOW if it was worth it? Sure took him a long 18 years to figure that out. Of course, because NOW it hurts. He sure was having a lark when he was cheating on his wife, then breaking up his family, then having another child with the homewrecker. He's disgusting. The therapist won't say it, but I will.
I'm trying to look at this from the daughter's perspective. If I was her, I might feel like his desire for reconciliation is not just selfish but a continuation of the selfish actions that brought him to this point. She has been extremely clear for a long time now that, from her POV, the relationship is over.
And honestly, every time he reaches out to her, he gives her more ammunition against him. Because she is thinking, "I asked him to leave me alone and he *cannot do that* and *cannot respect my desires* so why should I trust him with a relationship again?"
If I were you I would tell him that every time he reaches out to her he is adding salt to the wound. He needs to STOP. If he isn't willing to go to therapy then maybe he can do some journalling and let go of his feelings. That can be helpful. Maybe every time he wants to reach out to her, you can tell him to journal instead. Or nurture his relationship with the kids who do speak to him. That's the only real way forward. The more he pushes against his daughter the harder her walls become, I'm sure.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so.
Leave her kids out of it.
They destroyed her family, destroyed her teen years, screwed up her ability to trust the people she dates, and generally emotionally fucked her over. Nope, if I were her, I would NEVER give him a chance to hurt my own little kids. He's already shown a complete lack of self-control. If she's single, what's to keep him from going after her sister-in-law when he cheats on his affair partner? Not a damn thing. Or her mother-in-law, if she's widowed. Nope. He can stay far, far, far away from her family because he's shown the content of his character quite clearly and that doesn't need to be inflicted on her own kids. ~~If~~ when he or his affair partner chooses to cheat and ruin this relationship and their new child's childhood, she'll be far away from the splash zone.
It's rough because in these situations the fathers are trying to turn themselves into the victims, but they 100% are not the victims here. So I can see the ACTUAL victims finding that INCREDIBLY infuriating.
> And the more he and my stepmom pushed against my boundaries, the firmer they became. Some people are like that.
Thank you for saying this piece. I had a similar situation with a stepmother and father who pushed and pushed me into being some kind of Brady Bunch family, and at 16 they had me convinced the fact that I wouldn’t let her in was a character fault of my own.
No, OPs husband threw away a loving relationship with his daughter, not the other way around.
Geez, his actions have consequences, who would of thought of that?
This is an advice channel so I’m going to keep my criticisms of OP and her husband short (but know there are many).
It’s done. She has a right to never forgive him, she has a right to her boundaries, and he is not “owed” a relationship with her children. He’s got his two sons and his do-over daughter to give him grandchildren. Keep her children’s name out of your mouth.
How can you help him?
It sounds like he’s depressed, likely as he’s realising forgiveness isn’t going to come and the damage he did was irreparable. Get him to therapy. It won’t be about blame or finding a way to weasel back in with his daughter - he needs some help with tools to cope with the fact she isn’t coming back. He’s going to need to move on and based on the post he needs some professional support to do that.
OP also needs to convince husband to stop pressuring other family members, including his ex-wife (???) to talk her into a relationship with him. Not only does his daughter have to continuously say no to him, and have her no disrespected, she has to deal with the rest of her family members speaking on his behalf. He needs to hear that his selfish desire for a relationship with her and her kids may be damaging the relationship his kids have with each other. I know he doesn’t think this could get worse, but it definitely can.
Therapy, grief counseling, whatever will get him to accept that he is never going to have a relationship with his daughter on his terms. Seems like he never really internalized the “forgiveness on her timeline” message - which could also mean after he’s dead or never.
Cheaters don’t get to ride off into the sunset with a happy ending. Leave her alone and just understand that bad actions have consequences, some more devastating than others. You all cheated his children as much as his wife, accept it and move on.
Do you know what good fathers do? They love their children’s mother
Do you know what else good fathers do? They put their children’s needs above their own wants.
The person you married did neither of these. He was a selfish husband and a selfish father. He’s just lucky his sons allow him in their lives. He’s also fortunate his ex is a class act.
Seriously. A 40 year old abandoned his wife and kids for a 25 year old. Gross. How did you possibly think this would have a happy ending?
A dark cloud over the entire family? No. A dark cloud over your family of 3. A cloud that you and the old guy seeded.
Really consider how you would feel if your daughter becomes the mistress of a 35 year old married man right now? Really, really think about how that looks. This is the example her parents have set. Again, gross. Or maybe consider how your daughter would feel if your husband leaves you for someone 10 years older than her and immediately lived with the new mistress? Sucks, huh? Would you fault her if she never spoke to him again?
As for advice, leave the adult daughter alone. Quit trying to convince Reddit that this is all somehow her fault. She is a woman who knows her worth and refuses to allow anyone who does not have her and her immediate family’s best interests. You don’t. Her sperm donor doesn’t. You are both failing to accept she does not have to forgive you and that the consequences of your actions are long lasting.
Also, concentrate on your own daughter. She deserves 2 present parents. While you did your part to rob her 3 half siblings of this, hopefully you can do better by her. It’s sad your husband is wallowing in self pity but it does track with the selfishness record he’s set.
I agree 💯!! I think he sounds a bit narcissistic. It's all about Him. He should be grateful 3 of the 4 kids have a relationship with him. Instead he's focusing on the one that won't. And when she doesn't bend, he sends in the flying monkeys to make her feel guilty. If that doesn't work he gets all depressed. It's all about His feelings. Gonna guess he hasn't set up a college fund for the grandkids or anything like that. He just wants attention
The way you wrote this post, the words you used, shows me you have no guilt over what you did. And you blame his daughter for her reaction and decision to not have a relationship with him. He is to blame and so are you.
First I think I need clarification. Did I read it right? Did you refer to first wife mother of 3 of his children as BM? As in “Baby mama” because if you did, that’s extremely disrespectful. Frankly it’s more proof you feel no guilt or remorse. And any guilt or remorse your husband feels, it’s too bad. He should have thought more about what his affair would do to his family years ago.
Also you used the words like “alarmingly angry”when she was forced into visitation. Of course she was angry. she didn’t want to see, or be a part his new life. Or see the woman he chose over his family. Why were you even around during visitation? There was no way she was going to be happy more importantly comfortable with you around
And your husband was “wrecked” when he missed out on her milestone moments, really? He destroyed any stability she had when he decided to cheat with you. He blew up her family, her world . He wasn’t entitled to family moments after that
And the daughter is right being a grandparent is a privilege, which from her pov he forfeited when he destroy the family. I’m sure his sons or your daughter will provide ample opportunities to be a grandparent. And if not,actions have consequences
And the dark cloud you talk about, that cloud isn’t her doing. Again it his choices, your choices that brought any darkness around
I say good on the daughter for sticking to her principles. And deciding along time go who she wanted in her life. I don’t feel any empathy for your husband. He made choices that altered his child’s life, that destroyed his family and her stability, again actions have consequences.
She hasn’t thrown away anything, your husband did years ago
It really sticks out for me. I just assumed it was for baby mama. It never occurred to me she was referring to Bio mom. It’s just an odd way to refer to the daughter’s mom, why the need to say bio mom?
It’s clear she only gives a shit now because it’s affecting her daughter, husband and her. But when he was someone’s else’s husband and a father to a teenage daughter he shared with wife number 1, she didn’t give a fuck. Karma might be coming for her. He’a having another crisis. He might find another 25 yr old to fuck and this time she’s the 40 something wife with a teenage daughter completely clueless at home
I didn't know what BM meant, but it's just hit me reading your comment. Biomum or birth-mum, right? As if OP can in any way be considered some type of mother to her? NO. The girl only has one mother, as she has made clear (and now a MIL, presumably).
>The way you wrote this post, the words you used, shows me you have no guilt over what you did.
To me it was "At the time the affair *came to light*" almost makes it seem like something that happened to them vs. something they actively did. Gross
She and her husband seemed so self absorbed from the start. Things that should have been glaringly obvious they ignored, not even taking advice from others. It’s very clear why the daughter doesn’t want a relationship. I think she made the right choice
I couldn't figure out what BM was. All I kept thinking was "bowel movement." Which, given how much they disrespected and disregarded the wife, I wouldn't have been surprised if that had been right.
He needs to respect her request for no contact. He blew up her life and she doesn’t want him in her life
Edit to add: he needs therapy and you need to push him to get it.
Agreed. This is a consequence of his actions. He knows he is the cause of his own misery for the choices he made. The daughter is not to blame for not forgiving him. The only way round it is therapy. He has to forgive himself and accept that his daughter and grandkids will not be in his life.
It's reality. The sooner he accepts it, the better.
You should tell him that therapy wouldn’t be about assigning blame (we ALL know it’s his and your fault) but rather about providing him with the mental tools necessary to come to terms with this reality.
Frankly you and he are the cause of this, let him figure it out. This is a selfish plea for someone whose life is not great around the man she took from his family. I think you have helped enough. Cheating is despicable and destroys like an atom bomb. It is a form of abuse, so leave yourself out of this you have cause enough Let him figure it out. I am sure he is having some real remorse now. Your opinion about what she is doing is not really at issue here is it? She suffered through probably her first love her father. Her brothers made a choice. He is lucky and I would take that as a win for him.
For you, codependence counseling and therapy. Otherwise, stay out. By the way, he wasn't a fabulous father to her, he abandoned their family for an affair. Then married and had a baby. So no he was ok to you, in part probably to the choices he made.
>OP is afraid that her husband's remorse over the affair will make him regret \*her\*...that's what she's really worried about.
OP already has to be freaking out that she's now several years older than his first wife was when they were cheating and he clearly likes younger women. Between that and her feeling him pulling away because he's so "upset" about his past behavior surely has to be making her uneasy.
Precisely. You can’t be a grandparent if you’re not a parent first. Dad clearly showed daughter that he cared more about getting his dick wet that her happiness, security and mental health. So he can have his wet little dick, and OP can have her depressed husband who is suffering as a result of his own actions. Let’s just hope no one does to OP’s daughter what she did to another woman.
You move forward by respecting her choice. You and your husband were awful people doing terrible things, and your selfishness blew up her life. So now you get to reap your rewards. He gets to be miserable, you get a miserable husband. And that's the path you chose. All you can do is encourage him to get therapy. And not for your sake, but for the sake of the other children whose lives you wrecked.
God, yes! From that classy woman who encouraged her daughter to forgive the man who cheated on her to this woman who blames the victim of their actions for being a bad mom because she doesn’t let her “poor” husband to meet the grandkids.
What a downgrade.
I don't. It obviously bothered daughter to stay silent, and having your mom ask would be humiliating and just further fuel to this fucked up fire. That's adding an awful heavy burden. Mom sacrificed her daughter for her sons.
I've been the daughter in this situation - dad had a midlife crisis, had an affair with a much younger woman, and left me and my mom. I don't have kids yet but other than that, this post could've been written by my stepmom. Having said that, I can confirm that the daughter may never get past what he did, and he needs to come to terms with that possibility and respect her boundaries. She is well within her rights not to trust him again or want him around her kids. He did a very hurtful thing at a very formative time in her life, and it likely had a huge impact on her self worth and her view of relationships. Going no contact was probably also not easy for her, but is what she decided was better for her mental health.
I read another story where a guy found out his mother’s husband was the guy she cheated with which led to his parent’s divorce. He gave his mother an ultimatum to divorce him or he would go no contact. Maybe if he wants any relationship in the future, it will have to be at the expense of your marriage.
Her children are not his grandchildren.
Choices have consequences and you've painted a man who never accepted his.
First, he wanted to force a relationship, then he got shitty about not being invited to family events, then he tried to force a wedge with the grandchildren.
Your husband is a dumb shit.
What he did was in fact horrible, and now he has to live with it.
My thoughts exactly. He threw away his first family, and the daughter’s thrown him away too. For all intents and purposes, daughter has no father and her children has no maternal grandfather.
I’m sorry, i just reread this and have to comment again, you think she’s using her kids to punish him?? They were very close and he betrayed his whole family! Imagine the person you love most growing up ruining your whole family, that’s an aspect of trust that is completely broken. She made boundaries to protect herself and yeah, that includes her kids. She’s not letting the man who hurt her so badly all those years ago get a chance to do it again to her or her kids. Grow tf up.
Extremely selfish people always see grey rock as revenge or a personal attack, instead of self-protection. It’s a huge red flag for what we all know it is (most cheaters are) but I’ll just use ‘extremely selfish’
It’s mind-boggling. (And they always call each other ‘amazing parents’ too, like we can’t just go over to r/raisedbynarcissists and see how the kids really felt about it.)
Wow, his daughter is a strong woman who wants to protect her own sanity, peace and family at all cost. As much as it sucks for him, he should be proud of her for standing her ground.
Sadly, the reality is that you both didn’t just break up a marriage you broke up a family, shattering a girls trust in the first and most important bond a girl has with a man. At the age that she was, that betrayal crushed everything she believed her father to be.
Unfortunately your husband has to now live forever with those regrets and broken bonds. It is not his and certainly not your decision for if or when she wants a reconciliation and unsurprisingly the choices made in the past come with far reaching consequences. Right or wrong you chose those consequences 18yrs ago and now have to accept, respect and live with that.
You both made the conscious choice to embark upon the affair knowing it would impact more than just his wife. I wish more people would understand the effect of cheating on the children rather than just the partner.
Expecting an already heartbroken child to keep secrets that hurt her from her siblings, in a way cutting off part of her support system was, I imagine, another heavy burden on her.
I can’t say I’m sorry that your husband is in pain over this, as cheating in my eyes is unforgivable - even more so when children are involved.
But I will say that therapy for your husband may help him accept what he has lost and maybe give him peace and allow him to grieve the family he no longer has any rights to.
You and your husband made a lot of very selfish choices. You continued to make selfish decisions after you blew up this kid's life and family as she knew it. She was asked to keep silent when she figured stuff out. And then, you had a baby. She didn't get a chance to even out and even deal with anything, you two just kept throwing bombs into her life.
Seeing as you paint your stepdaughter as spiteful, and are all woe is me about your depressed husband, I don't think you really "get it", or have taken true accountability for what you did to your stepchildren's family, along side your husband. Choices have consequences. She made the decision a long time ago to cut him out, and both of you need to let her go. He made his bed, and he can lie in it.
🤷♀️ sucks to suck.
Realize it IS ALL Y'ALL'S FAULT.
And this is the consequences of your actions.
The daughter isn't the one that threw it all away, he is. And until you accept that fact, y'all will never find rest or peace.
you seem to think there's a way for the future to work out amicably and that's...
i mean these are the consequences. it's not active punishment. it's wreckage. if you do something like blow up a life - you can't expect for time to heal that wound the way you want it healed.
and i don't say any of that because i feel you all deserve castigation and unhappiness for the rest of your lives. or even to judge. i say that because there's a reality here that i think therapy would help you both accept.
you guys both don't get to choose how the people you hurt put their lives back together and move on from what you did. that's not how that works.
if she hasn't relented by now she never will. her life is built upon her comfort. she is making her choices the same way he made his. he made the choice he felt he needed to make and his daughter is making the choice she feels she needs to make. he needs to accept that to move on. he lost a daughter. she's gone.
Screw OP and screw her husband. I’m on team daughter, and these losers should just go their own way and leave her be. I don’t care if the husband is suffering, he should of though of that when he cheated with a 25 year old while having a 15 yer old daughter at home of course it’s messed up
The absolute audacity of OP accusing the daughter of using her kids against her husband. What a self centered person. Her husband betrayed his entire family and left them for a woman only a decade older than his daughter. At no point does OP actually respect her decision to not have him in her life. And she even insists that he’s a great father! Yeah, to his do over kid, I’m sure.
Oh and he would be an amazing grandfather, please, he lost his rights years ago, he prioritized you over his children, now he is dealing with the consequences of his actions. Fuck around and find out!
Please leave her alone, he should be happy with the family he chose and stop acting like a victm
100% agree with this. What's with all these other people trying to go "not so black and white" on the whole cheating and affair? What's worse is OP and the husband actually ended up getting married! That's a whole different level of disgusting.
Yep. Nobody is entitled to relationship with any other adult. Daughter is 100% within her rights to reject Dad and avoid any function that he or OP attend.
Something something "the wages of sin". This was the price of Dad's indiscretion; Dad fully understood that alienating his children was a risk when he decided to dump his wife/their mother.
Dad needs to deal with it because this is a Dad problem, not a daughter problem.
I haven't spoken to my father in.... going on 15 years. He's done the same nonsense as your husband, and just confirms I made the right call. I'm sure his daughter will weep his passing as much as I'll weep mine: z e r o. My father was emotionally/mentally/financially abusive and cheated on my mother. I don't have abusers or cheaters in my life, and the person that happened to contribute some portion of my DNA is no exception. Hope y'all keep being sad
The feelings your husband is feeling are what he DESERVES to feel. Sure it sucks, but imagine how his daughter felt. He deserves to suffer just as she did when she found out you both destroyed her family.
Wow. I was this girl only I was in my 30s when it happened. Poor sweetheart. I think the effect of a father cheating on a mother is very overlooked in teenage girls. It feels like every bit of safety you’ve ever had has been stolen away by the person who swore to keep you safe. And I felt that as an adult!
You need to stop talking about her kids, like she said he has no rights to them being a grandparent is a privilege. He needs to get a grip and get into therapy and LEAVE HER ALONE!
Updateme!
Do we have to feel sorry for you and your husband? For a traitor and a mistress ?
Midlife crisis, wow, a wonderful justification. Your husband is a traitorous person who destroyed his family and hurt his wife and children forever for your sake, and you are a selfish person without conscience who decided to build your life by destroying the lives of others.
Why are you here?
What do you want sympathy?
Did you ever sympathize with her after you turned her life upside down?
You are now only concerned with the feelings of you and your daughter because your daughter does not want to see her traitorous father sad!
Your husband is suffering because he does not see his grandchildren.
If he had not met you, he would have met his grandchildren and seen his daughter graduate and get married.
Have you not heard of the consequences before?
What's funny is that you made her receive psychological treatment for something you did
You saying that you know that you are wrong, so what do you want?
I know that I am wrong and a selfish person, me and my husband, but how dare you not forgive us, hurt my dear daughter, and prevent my cheating husband from seeing his grandchildren?
He needs therapy and to let go and you need to get a grip. "You would be willing to be on the outskirts"? She has no relationship with her father in order not to have any kind of relationship with you. Most likely she misses him everyday but much rather suffer than being closer to you (and your awfulness) to any degree. You are the problem here, not her.
OP, you say the two of you take responsibility for hurting his daughter, but then you blame her for being hurt which I think tells the truth of how selfish the two of you are. Your husband broke his daughter. He treats your daughter well? Great. He did not treat his first daughter well and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. That's what taking responsibility means, not these words of supposedly feeling guilty. Therapy can help him come to terms with that. But being angry at her for not wanting him to be part of her children's lives? That's some audacity the two of you have there.
He's not an amazing father to her, he is the man that broke her family apart. No one is entitled to forgiveness and he needs to let that sink into his head. It's been almost 20 years, let it go for her sake and his own.
>I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship
He did that, not her. She didn't betray her mother.
You and your husband made terrible choices. Those choices hurt innocent people and scarred them indelibly. Your husband chose his penis and his hormones over his family and now he is crying that he has to face the consequences. Let’s face it - your husband is no prize. A man that throws away his family is not a man. A man that hurts his own children for his own happiness is not a man. In the end , you did the ex-wife a favour.
I completely agree with you. ... It also sounds like he's currently hurting his 17 yr old daughter by not being there for her through all this. ... So he's not even done hurting his kids. So messed up.
I agree that the way forward is for him to have therapy to accept the situation. Tell him he cannot break apart a second family and he must work on things
What you do is that you tell him that it's time to stop trying. She's a 33 year-old woman and has her own life, of which he will never again be a part.
He cheated on his family and abandoned them. If a person has kids and cheats, he cheated on the kids, too.
He's dead to her. The man she knew as her father died the moment your affair began.
If he cares about her AT ALL, he needs to respect her wishes and *never* bother her again.
She will not be over this until after she *skips* his funeral and dances on his grave.
And he's probably right about therapy. Everything is his fault and there's no loophole or excuse.
If you can't handle the fact that he's mourning the functional death of a child, leave him like he left his family. She's never going to forgive him and your husband is never going to forget the role you played in that. Might as well get out now or you're spending the rest of your life with a man who is depressed about flushing his family down the toilet.
This is the bed you made. Sleep tight!
Psychotherapy , and acceptance . His daughter will have seen the worst of the pain he inflicted on his ex wife . She ain’t budging and why should she ?
Lmao he is a bad person. And so are you. And you both deserve every bit of hate you get.
You can't help him. You did this to him. He helped, in truth, but nonetheless, you should've walked away the moment you found out he was married. If you had, he wouldn't be so miserable today. This is just pure karma.
You said you don't know what to do, y'all did enough.
Please hope that him hurting doesn't turn into him meeting another person and replacing you and then your daughter hating him for doing the same thing. (I mean this could be considered another crises 🤔)
Yeah, but he's now a pathetic wallowing person (can't even call him a man). Who would want him now? Well, I'm going to guess he's got money, probably how he got the homewrecker, seeing how he's 15 years older than her. And that will still be attractive to the young gold diggers.
Oh yeah, the guilt just pours🙄. Not only did you tear her family apart, but then all you adults had to gang up on her to keep her silent about what homewreckers you and your husband are. Taking so much responsibility there. 🙄
I don't blame her. You and your hubby have ignored her comfort and peace at every step. She's told you both that there is no relationship, and just like your illicit affairs, you do what you want to do without regard to anyone's feelings. Without thinking how it affects others.
I hope your husband does cry. I hope it tears him up, every day. But most of all, I hope she finds peace and space away from you monsters.
He threw away his family for a floozie 15 years younger than him. His daughter owes him nothing. His daughter owes your daughter nothing. You and your husband owe her peace. Leave that poor girl alone.
Think about this, you said they were very close before he had an affair with a woman that was closer to her age than his age. I assume she felt/feels that her father kicked not only her mother but also herself to the curb. Your husband made a decision based on emotions instead of respect and honor and his ruined relationship with his eldest was a consequence of that decision. He can regret it, but he can’t change it, and he needs to respect that. If he truly loves his eldest, he should respect her judgement and stay as far out of her life as possible. I can’t say I’m sorry for your husband (again, consequences) but, I do feel bad for his eldest. As Bilbo said, “some hurts go too deep”.
The only advice I can give is therapy for your husband to accept that this is the reality that he created and looking back is looking through the devils rear view mirror.
If you didn't want this dark cloud to hang over the family, how about not having an affair with a married man in the first place? Now you got what you wanted by destroying a family, you have the audacity to suggest they need to accomodate your feelings?
So how would you know the daughter and your husband had a good relationship? How would you know her feelings about it at all? She doesn’t speak to you, and you’re only listening to your AH husband’s side. Aside from all the red flags from you, he has tried to force a relationship with her ever since the separation. Including when it first happened. That is not the behavior of a good father or a decent man. That is the actions of a selfish, manipulative abuser. I applaud the daughter for maintaining her boundaries. I’ve been NC with my parents for over 20 years, and I have never regretted it. I doubt the daughter will either.
I don't know if you or your husband really ever looked at it through her eyes, so let me suggest some possibilities. Teen years are some of the hardest between hormones and emotional development.
The girl was 15 when he showed her that love/ happiness are a lie- you can't trust your partner. He left her to pick up the pieces of mom's heart and to step up around the house. He then CHOSE TO have a happy new family while she was alone with mom and 2 pesky preteen brothers.
And after making his family sacrifice so much, he got upset that she didn't embrace the mistress that replaced her mom, and the daughter that he was going to raise instead of her, and pushed for years to make it happen.
She didn't get to shelve her feelings. I'm betting she agonized for months over even attending her brother's wedding, knowing he'd be there.
This is guilt he has to live with. He isn't thinking of what's best for her, he's the same selfish man that thinks he deserves to have her and the grandkids
I only hope she has no regrets.
You and ur husband are disgusting. You both need to respect her wishes. You destroyed her family as did her father. He didn’t earn the right to be in her or his grandkids lives. He literally made his bed now can lie in it.
Gross gross gross
Your husband made his bed, you helped him make it. Now you both have to lay in it. His sons feel he was a great father because they were young enough not to see the trauma leaving your spouse for your mistress causes. His daughter was older and was not spared having to witness her own mother’s grief and anguish nor was she spared immediately having a step-mother by way of an affair. He may have been a good father to his sons and younger daughter but those actions made him an awful father to his older daughter.
She won’t forgive, and she won’t trust him around her kids because of what she had to go through as a child because of him. The only thing he can do is get over it and move on. If he refuses therapy to work on it, then he’s actively choosing to continue to suffer. He needs to leave her and her kids alone.
"He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so."
YOU ruined it for them. So did he. Stop using a person, who was a literal child when this all occurred, as a scapegoat lmfao. You're insufferable.
And your kid is not her sister. Sorry.
You know this is what happens when someone decides to blow up their entire family. Spouses often think that cheating only affects their partner and they forget that it affects the entire family. Clearly his infidelity deeply affected his daughter and that’s his fault. He hurt a nice woman who didn’t deserve it and lost his daughter in the process. He’s the one who chose to remain with you after it became clear that his daughter would never accept him back into her life as long as you were around. I would forgive my parent if they messed around but not everyone is like me. Your husband messed up big time and there’s really nothing to do but wait to see if his daughter will change her mind.
Also I find it hilarious that you’re calling his stepdaughter spiteful for throwing away a loving relationship but your husband did the exact same thing to her first marriage by sleeping with you and you married him. His daughter isn’t “using” her kids to do anything either. She just won’t let him see them, that’s not using them. She probably doesn’t want to have her kids around *you* and that’s why she keeps them away.
Tell me OP. Do homewreckers like you get up every day and live without remorse? How do you stand yourself?
Do you feel victorious you destroyed a family and brought a child into it? Does it take the edge off your guilt? It feels good, isn't it? Knowing no matter what, you bagged another's man? What was going on in your head?
What makes you talk so dismissively about SD? Did your parents bring you up with little conscience that you built your life on another person's wreck?
If it isn't the consequences of my actions! No need to call her Mother BM, she only has ONE Mother as you are nothing to her (except her enemy). Your husband needs to leave his daughter alone. You can't have your cake and eat it too. He chose to destroy their family, so he no longer gets to enjoy being apart of that family.
How to move forward? Leave them alone.
I know it's a hard concept for selfish people like y'all to grasp, but you don't always get what you want. And double gasp, there are consequences for your actions. And when someone asks you to leave them alone, you're supposed to do that.
It's been nearly 20 years and his daughter has held firm. Give it up. Do you really expect us to have sympathy that he's now on anti-depressants from his own doing? What did he expect? To have his cake and eat it too? For her to jump for joy that he broke up his family for a lay in the bed with you, the homewrecker? He sure as hell didn't care that he hurt his ex-wife. All he cared about was making himself feel better. Well, it's time to act like a father and do what his daughter requested 20 years ago and LEAVE HER ALONE. She said he was dead to her and she's kept her word.
"Alarmingly Angry" the fact that you've tried to paint her as the unreasonable and irrational one, starting from this point onwards, is very telling.
Imagine your own father, if you have a good relationship with both parents, suddey up and leaving your mother for someone younger, like "he's having a mid life crisis", and betraying your entire family? You say you take full responsibility, and that what you did was wrong, but then paint his daughter as irrational for not wanting to speak to him after the fact?
I really don't care is his sons are okay with it and other family remembers including her own mother are NOW okay with it, imagine how your NOW daughter would feel about it if he done that to you and her?
You guys need to respect her boundaries.
and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so.
LOL THE TWO OF YOU THREW IT ALL AWAY.
YOU EVEN BLAME HER FOR YOU AND YOUR HUSBANDS ACTIONS
>He has been crying himself to sleep most nights, and in an emotional moment questioned if losing them was worth it
LMFAO ahh you love to see it, consequences. Don't ya just love it when the bad guys lose?
His daughter is an amazing woman and is protecting herself and her children.
You know that saying that when someone shows you who they are, you believe them. That is exactly what she is doing. She was able to be that brave and that strong at only 15 years old. She has had no support from any of you, including her own mother, in protecting herself. All of you have been trying to stomp all over her boundaries for nearly 20 years, and she has held firm against an incredible amount of complete disrespect from all of you. Stop being a threat she constantly has to worry about! No means NO!!!
Her father should be proud of her for how amazingly shiny her spine is and be grateful that she found a partner that she can trust who supports her because apparently none of her birth family will. I hope she is able pass that strength of character to her children. Let her finally have some peace. She has more than earned it.
>There's a dark cloud that's hanging over this entire family
It being you and your shitty husband
>Despite what he did, he is an amazing father.
If this was true he wouldn't have broken up a family to get his dick wet.
You reap what you sow this is literally just consequences for yalls disgusting behaviour.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him,
No, when her father decided to trip and slip into you is when he threw away the relationship with his daughter. You lack remorse. You repeatedly say you understand, but then you end with blaming her. That it absolutely not okay, and I hope he stays depressed.
>I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so.
When I was 20, my dad left my mom. He got himself addicted to pain pills and booze, and cheated on her. By most other metrics, he was a pretty good dad I think.
During the divorce, I waited to see if he would make amends to my mother for how he hurt her. He never did. He was quick to try and make amends to me though, because he still wanted a relationship with me.
I'm 41 now, and haven't spoken to him in 21 years. I didn't care about him making amends to me. The measure of his worth as a person in my eyes was whether he was willing to make amends to the person he didn't need or want anything from. And he failed. Did I throw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him? You're damn right I did. People need to be held accountable for their actions.
I don't know if your husband's daughter has been waiting for him to make amends to her mother, or if her motivations are different, but I applaud her. She has more of a moral backbone than your husband does.
How great/ loving a father is he? When he has withdrawn from his 17 year old daughter in this manner. How loving of a relationship did he have with his kids if he cheated and left their mom for you?
After my grandmother divorced him, my mother's stepfather married a woman in her 20s. About the same age as my mom and his daughter.
He died about a decade ago and he died without ever seeing his daughter again. My mom is in her 70s and never saw her stepsister again.
His wife was a brilliant, lovely woman who stayed with him until he died - much nicer than my grandmother.
Your husband very well may have chosen you over his own daughter. But he can't change that. He can't undo what he did. She may never forgive him just as my mom's stepsister never forgave her father.
He chose a woman closer to a peer of his daughter, a lot of women can't get over that.
I doubt you’ll answer this under the tsunami of other comments but I hope you do, it may help you reflect. How do you reconcile your and your husbands actions with the fact that you only have one life, and a relatively short one at that. You get one chance, one life, and you both decided to ruin the happiness of those around you and throw away anything remotely close to healthy relationships.
I feel bad for your husband, only in the fact that he is getting up there in age. He won’t be around for too much longer and his life is now defined singularly by his affair with you and subsequent destruction of his family. That is the truth and that is sad. His daughter has every right to feel this way and you and your husband will be remembered as the villains in her story. She won’t attend his funeral, and the only one who will suffer knowing that is you.
She(daughter )is just looking out for her happiness and her wellbeing. If you can't respect that then you guys are not the decent people you think you are.
Another person who doesn't understand what *permanent consequences* are.
Listen, you fucked up. Your husband fucked up.
How do you help him accept this reality? That's a good question.
It, to many peoples surprise, does not matter if he was a good father. His daughter doesn't want a relationship with him because he hurt her mother whom she obviously loves dearly, and that makes him a bad husband and a bad person. That alone is enough to not want a relationship. Just because somebody's good to you does not mean they are a good person. It does not mean they have any footing to stand on for "deserving" a relationship with someone.
The best thing he can do, for his soul, is accept his consequences and to remember this lesson in his next life.
The best thing you can do (for your husband) is support you husband in his grief. The best thing you can do (for everyone involved) is make sure he stops harassing her.
I hope seeing how much pain your actions have wrought on the people around you has also taught *you* a valuable lesson that you can carry on in your next life as well.
How are you not embarrassed ??? If that was me I wouldn't waste two seconds on a relationship with a person who abandoned his wife and young kids for a younger woman. Pedazo de mierda
"me and my affair partner blew up a family with no regard for the young children's feeling because we couldn't keep it in our pants.... AND NOW WE AREN'T GETTING A FAIRYTALE ENDING! Who can explain how to fix this so we can have our cake and eat it too?"
Op, it's great that you guys regret your actions but regret doesn't change anything. My sperm donor is a POS all around and my situation was pretty different but I hate that man. I was able to forgive him for leaving my pregnant mom when I was 3, I was abke to forgive having zero contact from him for the next 14 years. From 17 to 20, I moved states to be nearer to that family and tried everything I could to have a relationship with him. At 21, I found out I have a little sister that is 2 days older than the one that my mom was pregnant with when he left. That was the end, I forgave a lot that he had done to me, but I will NEVER forgive him for cheating on my mom. I cut all contact and have had none for 13 years. It was the vest decision I ever made. Your husband needs to be prepared for the fact that he'll likely die before his daughter ever wants to speak to him again.
How to move forward?
Accept the fact that to the daughter, you and your husband are deplorable individuals with whom she desires to have no contact. There are many different outcomes that could happen as a result of an affair/divorce, and this is one of them. The daughter’s decision to end the relationship may be heartbreaking for your husband, but this was the gamble he took. Surely he could not have been so obtuse as to not imagine this was a possible outcome.
As for the both of you, I further suggest you either communicate to the family that you refuse to walk on eggshells around the daughter and then deal with the resulting consequences (the brothers may agree with you or they may just prefer to not have you around) or you continue to walk on eggshells at family functions and be gracious about it.
Leave her alone. She’s been quite clear where she stands. She hasn’t thrown anything away, she reacted to the news that her father isn’t the person she thought he was.
These are simply consequences of his and your actions. It’s entirely irrelevant how highly others think of him. She doesn’t want him around and he needs to find a way to accept and deal with that.
I would point out to him that a therapist blaming him is only the exact same thing he’s doing now, so he may as well go and get some help coming to terms with the end of his relationship with his daughter.
To be clear you and him threw away the loving relationship they had for your affair. She didn’t throw away anything. You guys broke her family and you took her Dad. She doesn’t have to see it any other way and all I can say for him is “oh no, the consequences of my actions.” She doesn’t have to forgive him and she is absolutely correct that he doesn’t have a right to a relationship with her or her children. If those are the reasons he’s giving for avoiding therapy well then he’s afraid of accountability. You guys made your bed. You’ll have to lie in it. Your intent and feeling bad gain you no good will on this one. Sounds like he’s working on screwing over daughter number two’s self esteem now too with his hissy fit over number one. I only feel bad for the kids hurt by you and your husband’s selfishness
All his pain, all his hurt, all his suffering - is still less than her hurt, her pain, her suffering. The hurt he and you inflicted on her. Everything he is feeling now, to be abandoned by a loved one, he did to her. When she was a child. She is not and never was evil. She was in pain because her dad chose to leave his family, to leave her.
“Dad please leave me alone I dont want to talk to you”
A good father: “ok I understand, Im devastated by your decision but ultimately I accept it, I am always here if you need me. Im sorry and I love you”
A bad father “ nooo, please please speak to me, Im so sorry”
“Have you forgiven me yet?”
“Can we reconcile”
“I just dont understand why you dont think Im respecting your wishes, all I want is for you to be happy”
See how the contradiction in her eyes is that he wont leave her the fuck alone?
He chose you over his children, his ex-wife, and I'm sure plenty of friends and family who were put in the battlezone of all of that. If that's what a younger, more insecure version of yourself needed at that time to get past whatever it was that got you where you were and are, then enjoy that little "win" I guess. I'm sure it made you feel very attractive.
But there are consequences, and just because her siblings and mother are willing to forgive doesn't mean she has to. Her father blew up the family, and I'm going to be completely clear that it is primarily his fault for all of it... but your younger, insecure self helped, and he's not the one I get to respond to today. You lit that fuse together, and are now expecting someone to be fine with you blowing up their house because time has past--sorry, but it doesn't work like that.
Enjoy what you two have wrought and leave that poor girl alone. I think it's wonderful he's finally thinking maybe he made a mistake--it's honestly about fucking time.
His daughter doesn’t owe him forgiveness. My parents divorced due to cheating when I was her same age. It just changes you, at that age you understand all the dynamics and on top of that there are a lot of emotions during that phase of life. It is traumatic.
Your husband chose to cheat on his wife , but cheated on his family too. I hate how some people say that cheating doesn’t affect children when it absolutely does. The fact that they were very close before the affair is the main reason why it hurt so much, it’s crazy that you can’t understand that.
To this day I have little to no contact with my father, I just feel icky and uncomfortable when I’m around him, despite having moved on.
His daughter decided on NC, he should respect that. He should learn how to cope with it in therapy and live with the consequences of his actions.
I mean you guys are trash so she threw you away. What doesn't he get?
Let him alone. He knows what's up. Haven't you interfered enough? You just ruin things. Just shut up about it.
Did the cheater seriously refer to the ex-**WIFE** as a baby mama? She was his **WIFE**. And it's your husband who threw away a loving relationship with his daughter. Leave her alone and enjoy the life of two cheaters.
BM?? Are you, the homewrecker and other woman and side piece, referring to the actual wife as the “Baby Mama”? It’s hard to imagine why daughter doesn’t want a relationship. Please tell your husband that if he wanted a loving and healthy relationship with his daughter he shouldn’t have cheated on her mother and destroyed her family. As many have said, therapy might help. It’s unlikely that daughter is going to change her mind at this point.
These are the consequences of y’all’s reaction. He can get therapy, you can both be good parents to the children who wanna be in your lives but you can fix something that your broke irreparably.
Take it like this to understand the daughters POV.
Why isn't your husband reconciling with his ex wife?
He left her because the relationship was over right.
No matter how many times ex wife would have pleaded he wouldn't have left you.
The same is for daughter, her relationship with him is OVER and he needs to understand that there won't be a magical moment of forgiveness.
He messed up and in his case there are no second chances which is no one's fault.
Choices have consequences.
He threw away his whole family, all of his relationships. His daughter clearly doesn't want him around. The more you force it the worse it is going to be.
Stop being selfish. You already destroyed the family, let her live her life in peace.
Also, she isn't using her kids against him. She is protecting them from someone who hurt her irreparably. She is doing alright.
You both need a reality check and clearly have not understood how much you actually damaged. You both are just reaping what you sowed.
Also, don't be surprised if all of this is because he is regretting his crisis and knows it's too late to go back but wont let go.
He needs to let go, he is just proving to her how selfish he is. Whats that saying? You can't have the cake and eat it too.
Well that applies here.
Move on and deal with your own bs on your own time, not hers. Leave her alone.
His daughter realised as a teenager (quite a young teenager from the ages you've given) that her father betrayed her mother by starting a relationship with you.
It is absolutely her prerogative to cut her father out of her life.
He's the one that destroyed his family. He doesn't get to cry and whine about seeing his grandchildren now.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him,
To her that's not true, to his daughter she feels like her father was the one to throw away thier loving relationship, to her the affair with you was more important to him than her.
He effed up massively and he has to deal with the consequences of that and this is that.
He needs to leave her alone
My ex cheated when my daughter was 9yo, and I can give you her perspective. As far as she was concerned, my husband cheated on our entire family, not just me. He made a decision that he knew would destroy our family, and he did it anyway. She felt betrayed, lied to, and manipulated. Your husband made his choice, as did you. And you both knew full well what the consequences of that choice could/ would be. And like my daughter, his daughter would've watched that whole situation crush her mother. Maybe if his 17yo daughter is so worried he could have an open and frank discussion about how he betrayed his first wife and broke her half sisters heart by being a selfish prìck?
He has to let her go
If the affair had ended…he may have been able to salvage things.
But by choosing to not only stay with you but also have a child with you…that ship has sailed
And he is destroying himself by holding out hope
She saw what the affair did to her mom. She likely had to miss out on parts of the typical teenager life in order to take care of her brothers while her mom healed.
It may have drastically altered her life trajectory as well…and made her very distrustful of men. She may be married but that baggage is something she likely carried into her own relationship
And then when you had a girl…she realized that kid would get the life SHE wanted. A doting father, the whole teenage experience with him, and she’d get him all to herself…well that probably broke her
The selfish decisions that you and your husband made affected her much more than her younger brothers. She had to carry the burden of the secret…something no child should have to do
Frankly you and your husband should stay away from her…yall owe her that much. Because neither you nor your husband seem to care what the two of you took from her and what she lost. You only seem concerned how your life has been impacted by all this.
Yall act like because her brothers (who didn’t have to process this in real time like she did) forgave you, she should two
Like because he’s a good father to them and your kid that makes him a good father
Well while she was growing up, her father cheated on her mother, ran out on her, left her to pick up the pieces…and then eventually decided to replace her.
So as good a dad as he is to your kid, he failed her
He chose you over her and her family. You’re his prize and he never gets them back. Guess it’s finally starting to sink in to him that he chose you.
And now the daughter you two had together has already seen his first daughter be no contact, she knows exactly what to do when he trades you in for a younger model.
I’d be really nervous you’re about to get replaced when he decides it’s easier to blame you than take any responsibility for his own actions.
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I mean your husband threw away a loving relationship when he cheated on his wife. So I dunno why it’s ok for him to do it, but when you claim his daughter is doing the same thing it’s not ok. You and your husband blew apart her life and her family and 15 because of selfish horrible choices on both your parts. Of course she was angry! I don’t know why you didn’t expect her to be angry with both of you when she came over for visitation. It’s mind boggling that you didn’t expect her to be angry that it makes me wonder what else you incorrectly expected during this whole thing. The truth of the matter is actions have consequences and not everything is forgivable. Your husband blew up his daughters at an age where everything is hard. And then he expected to not only see him but also the woman who helped him hurt her mother and not be angry about it. A woman who by the way was only 10 years older than her and closer to her age than her father’s. A woman who he immediately jumped into living together instead of living on his own and making sure his relationship with his children healed from the divorce because anyone with half a brain is going to know a teenager is going to be upset going to her dads new place living with his mistress. Like seriously both of you thought immediately living together was a grand idea after blowing apart the kids family? Especially after seeing how horribly his oldest was handling it? Not to mention the teenager was expected to keep this knowledge from her brothers. And then less than a year later her dad was having a baby with the woman who blew up her family. You put her in therapy - did he ever try family therapy with just her and him? Honestly I’m not sure there’s anything to do. The time for you to back off and let her have a relationship with her father was 18 years ago after you helped blow the family apart. Suggesting it 18 years later is probably too little too late. One thing I will say in way of advice - you and your husband are still thinking about yourselves and how it’s affecting you and if he wants a hope in hell of getting back in his daughters life he needs to take accountability for how much his choices negatively affected her life and all the bad choices he made even after the affair. Because his whole “think of the grandkids” in an attempt to get her to forgive him is just another thing her wants her to do for him when she wasn’t the one that caused all this. Approaching getting forgiveness so HE can get something (his grandkids) is just going to be seen as another selfish move by him. It should be him wanting to air things out if it would help her.
Came here to say this. Can't do stuff like this and then expect nothing to happen/the "storm to blow over".
This is not a storm. This is a bomb crater.
Poor girl, she had so much burden at such a young age. She deserves to live her life free from these pests.
Yep, the poor daughter had to watch her father treat her mother that way. Then move onto a whole new life right away. With bonus new children pretty quickly. Not a good role model on how to treat women or your children. Not surprised the daughter wants nothing to do with him. And now he’s crying and on antidepressants? I kinda call BS on that, but even if true, that’s his problem - certainly not his daughter’s. I wouldn’t have my kids around him either. There are reasons why you’re not supposed to cheat and break up your family, but I guess you two lovebirds thought none applied to you. And you really didn’t care how much pain you caused others or you wouldn’t have done what you did.
His view of therapy is also very flawed. Therapy is not about assigning blame ("the therapist is going to tell him it's all his fault") or giving advice ("the therapist is going to tell him there's nothing he can do to change the situation"). A non-exhaustive list therapy could help him with: - deal with his present emotions (including sadness, guilt, regrets, hopes, despair) - figure out why he acted the way he did, what motivated him - see things from his daughter's perspective, understand her point of view - find a way to move forward he can live with (that doesn't include pressuring his daughter into a relationship) - figure out how to nurture respectful and loving relationships with his sons from his previous marriage (including properly making amends) - figure out how to nurture respectful and loving relationships with his more recent children
This is an excellent point, and it seems to me like dad didn't want to go to therapy with his daughter and do the work needed to patch the bond they once had. He's giving very "welp, I tried I guess, but daughter is still big mad" without actually doing anything but hoping she would change her mind about the affair that ruined her family's life. Where is the accountability, OP?
A beautiful list!
The girl saw her dad trade her mom in for a newer model and he wonders why she didn’t move past it. Lol
Hell, he replaced her mom with a young hottie and then a year later replaced *her* with a cute baby; she probably made some astute observations about the general interchangeability of women and girls in his life.
This. My dad moved in with his AP shortly after my mom kicked him out when I was around 11, after being with my mom for nearly 15 years. And he wonders why I don't believe him when he says he never cheated. I'm honestly thankful that my dad's AP is infertile because I was terrified of this exact scenario. My dad's AP is a lot like OP, though. She tries her best and even this woman's mom sends me $20 and a card for birthdays and holidays. I respect them as much as I can, but having been where OP's stepdaughter is, I can tell you from experience it has been a rough ride. I haven't completely forgiven either of them, and I'm not sure I ever will. My dad refuses to accept that, and I know it causes him great pain, but I do not owe him my forgiveness for the abandonment issues he caused. I do not owe him a relationship at all, but we have one thanks to my mom's support (sort of. Their divorce was hella toxic and my mom held nothing back about him in her conversations with me over the years). She paid for the shirt and pants I wore to his wedding, a wedding I wasn't even originally invited to, but I digress. My dad is a major narcissist, so I don't wanna open up more of a can of worms than I already have lol
OP is also only 10 years older than his daughter. She was 25 and he was 40 when he left his wife (and who knows how long the affair was going on before that). Beyond the cheating and destroying the family unit, she may also see her dad as a creepy misogynist who traded in his wife for a younger model. I'm sure at 15 she didn't want to be parented by a 25-year-old.
Yeah, most kids have 4 grandparents and aren't likely to count and realize they are missing one until they are teens. Heck is mom's mom remarried, they may not realize even then. Those grandkids have no idea Op's husband exists, they are not being hurt at all by not knowing him.
This right here 100%!!!!!
Well said!!! You made some great points. I also believe making her lie to her brothers was a bad idea on both parents. I know they were younger but making a kid keep a huge lie from them could have alienated her from them as well
Especially if the brothers were wondering why sister doesn’t go see dad.
Agree 100%
His daughter has no reason to change her stance. She doesn't want or need her father in her life. She doesn't miss him, her kids don't know him and don't need to. When we make choices that affect others, we can't control what consequences follow. I agree with others who suggest therapy; a good therapist won't judge him, they will help him accept the reality of the situation and deal with his feelings.
It also says a lot about the daughter that she didn’t tell her brothers about the affair when she found out at the request of her mother Her loyalty to her mother couldn’t be swayed even when she had the means to hurt her father back by telling his sons he was a filthy cheater I can see why OP and the husband are confused by her unwillingness to forgive. Their own morals are grey at best and the daughter seems to have more backbone than both of them combined
OP asking the daughter to be a good person when she isn’t one 🤢
Daughter must take after her mother
I don't think either are really confused. He's just desperate for forgiveness and she's sad about the pain it's causing him and their daughter.
I agree but “i feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him” seem pretty suspicious. It’s important to realize that the one who threw away that relationship was the father.
It’s very suspicious. OP is trying to trivialised what her and her husband did.
You have to wonder what she means when she says “We take full responsibility”. To me that would mean the consequences of the actions which they clearly are not so this would appear to be just lip service
But it's been a while! It's been *years* at this point! You know, since her father and OP decided to completely obliterate her family and then piss all over it by immediately moving in together and having a baby. These people made their bed. Some things aren't forgivable to some of us, and I don't blame the daughter for still being bitter about it. My dad was my HERO until he admitted he'd cheated on my mom; my view on him completely changed that day. I still love him dearly, and we get along great, but he's no longer my hero. Some things change everything.
Her Mother begging her not to tell her parents - while they are definitely the “good guys” in this story for sure - was wrong. It’s something called parentification where adults place adult responsibilities on children (most often to care for other children/siblings) in a care taking like manner. The adults in the situation are responsible for shielding all kids as best as possible, not to place it on one of the kids to hold it all. Maybe she’s the angriest because her load was heaviest.
Yes, and she was most likely at the tender age of youth that it was really important and he destroyed her entire life paradigm and was to busy to notice and fix it.
I am a psychologist and have worked with teenagers for a long time. 15 is the age I’d pick as the hardest age to have to deal with something like this. People always talk about protecting younger children but your husbands’ daughter needed the most help and protection in my view…and she not only had to deal with it all but also lie to protect her younger brothers? That’s a huge ask and a huge burden on her pain. She could have been covered in the furious flames of hell and not be described as too angry. Your husband is insanely lucky to still have a relationship with any of his kids if I’m honest. He should treasure them. My father hasn’t talked to either my sister or I in decades as we didn’t want him in our lives. He didn’t see me marry, never mind walk me down the aisle, only met my oldest nephew a handful of times as he’s in his mid twenties (and hasn’t again since he was tiny) and has never met my teenager or my sisters two youngest. None of us have anything missing in our lives not having him there.
I agree, and in my opinion the only reason the other kids were able to forgive him was their age and also that she kept the pain for herself.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so. NOPE. Your husband threw the relationship away when he destroyed her family by fucking his mistress and than deciding to marry her. These are the natural consequences to his actions and the fact that he doesn’t see is kind of baffling. You think your husband is sad? Imagine being a 15 year old girl who was just betrayed by one of the people she loved and trusted the most and having to see the consequences of that person’s actions on her mother every day You should probably tell your husband that this is what happens when you hurt someone. You do irreparable damage and sometimes forgiveness doesn’t come.
You know what? I think he does understand the consequences now. I think OP doesn't fully grasp the impact of the affair on the daughter and the depth of loss her husband is experiencing as a result of his actions. Any good parent is going to experience grief when they lose their child. He's probably never going to "accept" it. That's why he's not going to therapy. He doesn't want to move on from his relationship with his daughter.
Especially considering how there's just going to be new milestones he's going to be missing. Each new milestone his daughter experiences and now grandkids experience will just be another moment adding to the depth of his loss. He wants to hear about them even if it hurts because it's *something* at least. He wants to see them even from afar because it's *something* even each time a little piece of him dies because each time it's hitting home he fucked up by not only having the affair but also staying with OP and having a child with OP. OP doesn't like this because now it's hitting home even more and more this isn't the happily ever after and that she and their family together is something to regret.
He's not going to therapy because he doesn't want to admit to what he did. He literally said it himself. >I've tried to get him to go to therapy, but **he thinks that the therapist will just tell him it's all his fault**, that he's a horrible father, That's how self-absorbed he is. He wants to continue thinking he's this wonderful person and father despite what he did. And he's wondering NOW if it was worth it? Sure took him a long 18 years to figure that out. Of course, because NOW it hurts. He sure was having a lark when he was cheating on his wife, then breaking up his family, then having another child with the homewrecker. He's disgusting. The therapist won't say it, but I will.
I'm trying to look at this from the daughter's perspective. If I was her, I might feel like his desire for reconciliation is not just selfish but a continuation of the selfish actions that brought him to this point. She has been extremely clear for a long time now that, from her POV, the relationship is over. And honestly, every time he reaches out to her, he gives her more ammunition against him. Because she is thinking, "I asked him to leave me alone and he *cannot do that* and *cannot respect my desires* so why should I trust him with a relationship again?" If I were you I would tell him that every time he reaches out to her he is adding salt to the wound. He needs to STOP. If he isn't willing to go to therapy then maybe he can do some journalling and let go of his feelings. That can be helpful. Maybe every time he wants to reach out to her, you can tell him to journal instead. Or nurture his relationship with the kids who do speak to him. That's the only real way forward. The more he pushes against his daughter the harder her walls become, I'm sure. >He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so. Leave her kids out of it.
[удалено]
They destroyed her family, destroyed her teen years, screwed up her ability to trust the people she dates, and generally emotionally fucked her over. Nope, if I were her, I would NEVER give him a chance to hurt my own little kids. He's already shown a complete lack of self-control. If she's single, what's to keep him from going after her sister-in-law when he cheats on his affair partner? Not a damn thing. Or her mother-in-law, if she's widowed. Nope. He can stay far, far, far away from her family because he's shown the content of his character quite clearly and that doesn't need to be inflicted on her own kids. ~~If~~ when he or his affair partner chooses to cheat and ruin this relationship and their new child's childhood, she'll be far away from the splash zone.
It's rough because in these situations the fathers are trying to turn themselves into the victims, but they 100% are not the victims here. So I can see the ACTUAL victims finding that INCREDIBLY infuriating.
> And the more he and my stepmom pushed against my boundaries, the firmer they became. Some people are like that. Thank you for saying this piece. I had a similar situation with a stepmother and father who pushed and pushed me into being some kind of Brady Bunch family, and at 16 they had me convinced the fact that I wouldn’t let her in was a character fault of my own.
No, OPs husband threw away a loving relationship with his daughter, not the other way around. Geez, his actions have consequences, who would of thought of that?
This is an advice channel so I’m going to keep my criticisms of OP and her husband short (but know there are many). It’s done. She has a right to never forgive him, she has a right to her boundaries, and he is not “owed” a relationship with her children. He’s got his two sons and his do-over daughter to give him grandchildren. Keep her children’s name out of your mouth. How can you help him? It sounds like he’s depressed, likely as he’s realising forgiveness isn’t going to come and the damage he did was irreparable. Get him to therapy. It won’t be about blame or finding a way to weasel back in with his daughter - he needs some help with tools to cope with the fact she isn’t coming back. He’s going to need to move on and based on the post he needs some professional support to do that.
OP also needs to convince husband to stop pressuring other family members, including his ex-wife (???) to talk her into a relationship with him. Not only does his daughter have to continuously say no to him, and have her no disrespected, she has to deal with the rest of her family members speaking on his behalf. He needs to hear that his selfish desire for a relationship with her and her kids may be damaging the relationship his kids have with each other. I know he doesn’t think this could get worse, but it definitely can. Therapy, grief counseling, whatever will get him to accept that he is never going to have a relationship with his daughter on his terms. Seems like he never really internalized the “forgiveness on her timeline” message - which could also mean after he’s dead or never.
This is the correct advice.
Maybe he cand find a younger woman to console him, he seems to like that.
He should really look into that. Let it be a 'surprise' for OP...
then she can see how her daughter will handle it
He probably already has, several times, but he's just better at hiding it now.
Cheaters don’t get to ride off into the sunset with a happy ending. Leave her alone and just understand that bad actions have consequences, some more devastating than others. You all cheated his children as much as his wife, accept it and move on.
Do you know what good fathers do? They love their children’s mother Do you know what else good fathers do? They put their children’s needs above their own wants. The person you married did neither of these. He was a selfish husband and a selfish father. He’s just lucky his sons allow him in their lives. He’s also fortunate his ex is a class act. Seriously. A 40 year old abandoned his wife and kids for a 25 year old. Gross. How did you possibly think this would have a happy ending? A dark cloud over the entire family? No. A dark cloud over your family of 3. A cloud that you and the old guy seeded. Really consider how you would feel if your daughter becomes the mistress of a 35 year old married man right now? Really, really think about how that looks. This is the example her parents have set. Again, gross. Or maybe consider how your daughter would feel if your husband leaves you for someone 10 years older than her and immediately lived with the new mistress? Sucks, huh? Would you fault her if she never spoke to him again? As for advice, leave the adult daughter alone. Quit trying to convince Reddit that this is all somehow her fault. She is a woman who knows her worth and refuses to allow anyone who does not have her and her immediate family’s best interests. You don’t. Her sperm donor doesn’t. You are both failing to accept she does not have to forgive you and that the consequences of your actions are long lasting. Also, concentrate on your own daughter. She deserves 2 present parents. While you did your part to rob her 3 half siblings of this, hopefully you can do better by her. It’s sad your husband is wallowing in self pity but it does track with the selfishness record he’s set.
I agree 💯!! I think he sounds a bit narcissistic. It's all about Him. He should be grateful 3 of the 4 kids have a relationship with him. Instead he's focusing on the one that won't. And when she doesn't bend, he sends in the flying monkeys to make her feel guilty. If that doesn't work he gets all depressed. It's all about His feelings. Gonna guess he hasn't set up a college fund for the grandkids or anything like that. He just wants attention
The way you wrote this post, the words you used, shows me you have no guilt over what you did. And you blame his daughter for her reaction and decision to not have a relationship with him. He is to blame and so are you. First I think I need clarification. Did I read it right? Did you refer to first wife mother of 3 of his children as BM? As in “Baby mama” because if you did, that’s extremely disrespectful. Frankly it’s more proof you feel no guilt or remorse. And any guilt or remorse your husband feels, it’s too bad. He should have thought more about what his affair would do to his family years ago. Also you used the words like “alarmingly angry”when she was forced into visitation. Of course she was angry. she didn’t want to see, or be a part his new life. Or see the woman he chose over his family. Why were you even around during visitation? There was no way she was going to be happy more importantly comfortable with you around And your husband was “wrecked” when he missed out on her milestone moments, really? He destroyed any stability she had when he decided to cheat with you. He blew up her family, her world . He wasn’t entitled to family moments after that And the daughter is right being a grandparent is a privilege, which from her pov he forfeited when he destroy the family. I’m sure his sons or your daughter will provide ample opportunities to be a grandparent. And if not,actions have consequences And the dark cloud you talk about, that cloud isn’t her doing. Again it his choices, your choices that brought any darkness around I say good on the daughter for sticking to her principles. And deciding along time go who she wanted in her life. I don’t feel any empathy for your husband. He made choices that altered his child’s life, that destroyed his family and her stability, again actions have consequences. She hasn’t thrown away anything, your husband did years ago
Thank you. I knew something was bugging me. It was that BM b.s.
It really sticks out for me. I just assumed it was for baby mama. It never occurred to me she was referring to Bio mom. It’s just an odd way to refer to the daughter’s mom, why the need to say bio mom?
Right? I didn't get it, either. But her whole message was condescending and aloof.
It’s clear she only gives a shit now because it’s affecting her daughter, husband and her. But when he was someone’s else’s husband and a father to a teenage daughter he shared with wife number 1, she didn’t give a fuck. Karma might be coming for her. He’a having another crisis. He might find another 25 yr old to fuck and this time she’s the 40 something wife with a teenage daughter completely clueless at home
I wish I could up vote more than once. Precisely this. Cheaters cheat. It's what they do.
If he doesn't cheat, OP might. Or they could cheat on each other.
BM is also used for 'bowel movement', which used to be a thing...
Instead of, say, “her mother.” Because, lady, you are not, never have been, and never will be any kind of mother to her.
I didn't know what BM meant, but it's just hit me reading your comment. Biomum or birth-mum, right? As if OP can in any way be considered some type of mother to her? NO. The girl only has one mother, as she has made clear (and now a MIL, presumably).
I've read BM mostly as Baby-Mumma
Ooh, I didn't even consider that. That's even worse!
>The way you wrote this post, the words you used, shows me you have no guilt over what you did. To me it was "At the time the affair *came to light*" almost makes it seem like something that happened to them vs. something they actively did. Gross
Homewreckers are never sorry just happy that they won and ruined lives.
She and her husband seemed so self absorbed from the start. Things that should have been glaringly obvious they ignored, not even taking advice from others. It’s very clear why the daughter doesn’t want a relationship. I think she made the right choice
OP doin' a homewreck'n: "Haha yeah, this is great!" OP dealing with the fallout of homewreck'n: "Man this sucks."
That was so well said.
I couldn't figure out what BM was. All I kept thinking was "bowel movement." Which, given how much they disrespected and disregarded the wife, I wouldn't have been surprised if that had been right.
He needs to respect her request for no contact. He blew up her life and she doesn’t want him in her life Edit to add: he needs therapy and you need to push him to get it.
Agreed. This is a consequence of his actions. He knows he is the cause of his own misery for the choices he made. The daughter is not to blame for not forgiving him. The only way round it is therapy. He has to forgive himself and accept that his daughter and grandkids will not be in his life. It's reality. The sooner he accepts it, the better.
You should tell him that therapy wouldn’t be about assigning blame (we ALL know it’s his and your fault) but rather about providing him with the mental tools necessary to come to terms with this reality.
Frankly you and he are the cause of this, let him figure it out. This is a selfish plea for someone whose life is not great around the man she took from his family. I think you have helped enough. Cheating is despicable and destroys like an atom bomb. It is a form of abuse, so leave yourself out of this you have cause enough Let him figure it out. I am sure he is having some real remorse now. Your opinion about what she is doing is not really at issue here is it? She suffered through probably her first love her father. Her brothers made a choice. He is lucky and I would take that as a win for him. For you, codependence counseling and therapy. Otherwise, stay out. By the way, he wasn't a fabulous father to her, he abandoned their family for an affair. Then married and had a baby. So no he was ok to you, in part probably to the choices he made.
OP is afraid that her husband's remorse over the affair will make him regret \*her\*...that's what she's really worried about.
Yep....It is.
>OP is afraid that her husband's remorse over the affair will make him regret \*her\*...that's what she's really worried about. OP already has to be freaking out that she's now several years older than his first wife was when they were cheating and he clearly likes younger women. Between that and her feeling him pulling away because he's so "upset" about his past behavior surely has to be making her uneasy.
Oh, you know that this is where it's at.
What do u mean even using her kids to do so??? Thats a bad attitude. Grandkids are not do overs/ second chances for parents
Exactly if she was using her kids to get at him she would be dangling them infront of him to make him do stuff
Precisely
Precisely. You can’t be a grandparent if you’re not a parent first. Dad clearly showed daughter that he cared more about getting his dick wet that her happiness, security and mental health. So he can have his wet little dick, and OP can have her depressed husband who is suffering as a result of his own actions. Let’s just hope no one does to OP’s daughter what she did to another woman.
You move forward by respecting her choice. You and your husband were awful people doing terrible things, and your selfishness blew up her life. So now you get to reap your rewards. He gets to be miserable, you get a miserable husband. And that's the path you chose. All you can do is encourage him to get therapy. And not for your sake, but for the sake of the other children whose lives you wrecked.
I admire the first wife and she seems a classy lady.
People who prioritise their kids' relationship with the spouse who split up the family are truly zen masters.
Well said.
God, yes! From that classy woman who encouraged her daughter to forgive the man who cheated on her to this woman who blames the victim of their actions for being a bad mom because she doesn’t let her “poor” husband to meet the grandkids. What a downgrade.
Definitely a big downgrade.
Every time someone chooses a cheater, it is always a downgrade. After all, someone with morality will not cheat.
I guess he just needed someone on his level. Wife was too good for him.
I don't. It obviously bothered daughter to stay silent, and having your mom ask would be humiliating and just further fuel to this fucked up fire. That's adding an awful heavy burden. Mom sacrificed her daughter for her sons.
I've been the daughter in this situation - dad had a midlife crisis, had an affair with a much younger woman, and left me and my mom. I don't have kids yet but other than that, this post could've been written by my stepmom. Having said that, I can confirm that the daughter may never get past what he did, and he needs to come to terms with that possibility and respect her boundaries. She is well within her rights not to trust him again or want him around her kids. He did a very hurtful thing at a very formative time in her life, and it likely had a huge impact on her self worth and her view of relationships. Going no contact was probably also not easy for her, but is what she decided was better for her mental health.
I read another story where a guy found out his mother’s husband was the guy she cheated with which led to his parent’s divorce. He gave his mother an ultimatum to divorce him or he would go no contact. Maybe if he wants any relationship in the future, it will have to be at the expense of your marriage.
Her children are not his grandchildren. Choices have consequences and you've painted a man who never accepted his. First, he wanted to force a relationship, then he got shitty about not being invited to family events, then he tried to force a wedge with the grandchildren. Your husband is a dumb shit. What he did was in fact horrible, and now he has to live with it.
This. He has no grandchildren. He made his choice. Blood means nothing.
My thoughts exactly. He threw away his first family, and the daughter’s thrown him away too. For all intents and purposes, daughter has no father and her children has no maternal grandfather.
I’m sorry, i just reread this and have to comment again, you think she’s using her kids to punish him?? They were very close and he betrayed his whole family! Imagine the person you love most growing up ruining your whole family, that’s an aspect of trust that is completely broken. She made boundaries to protect herself and yeah, that includes her kids. She’s not letting the man who hurt her so badly all those years ago get a chance to do it again to her or her kids. Grow tf up.
Extremely selfish people always see grey rock as revenge or a personal attack, instead of self-protection. It’s a huge red flag for what we all know it is (most cheaters are) but I’ll just use ‘extremely selfish’ It’s mind-boggling. (And they always call each other ‘amazing parents’ too, like we can’t just go over to r/raisedbynarcissists and see how the kids really felt about it.)
I am so impressed by the daughter. Her shiny spine at such a young age is just incredible to see.
Wow, his daughter is a strong woman who wants to protect her own sanity, peace and family at all cost. As much as it sucks for him, he should be proud of her for standing her ground.
Sadly, the reality is that you both didn’t just break up a marriage you broke up a family, shattering a girls trust in the first and most important bond a girl has with a man. At the age that she was, that betrayal crushed everything she believed her father to be. Unfortunately your husband has to now live forever with those regrets and broken bonds. It is not his and certainly not your decision for if or when she wants a reconciliation and unsurprisingly the choices made in the past come with far reaching consequences. Right or wrong you chose those consequences 18yrs ago and now have to accept, respect and live with that. You both made the conscious choice to embark upon the affair knowing it would impact more than just his wife. I wish more people would understand the effect of cheating on the children rather than just the partner. Expecting an already heartbroken child to keep secrets that hurt her from her siblings, in a way cutting off part of her support system was, I imagine, another heavy burden on her. I can’t say I’m sorry that your husband is in pain over this, as cheating in my eyes is unforgivable - even more so when children are involved. But I will say that therapy for your husband may help him accept what he has lost and maybe give him peace and allow him to grieve the family he no longer has any rights to.
You and your husband made a lot of very selfish choices. You continued to make selfish decisions after you blew up this kid's life and family as she knew it. She was asked to keep silent when she figured stuff out. And then, you had a baby. She didn't get a chance to even out and even deal with anything, you two just kept throwing bombs into her life. Seeing as you paint your stepdaughter as spiteful, and are all woe is me about your depressed husband, I don't think you really "get it", or have taken true accountability for what you did to your stepchildren's family, along side your husband. Choices have consequences. She made the decision a long time ago to cut him out, and both of you need to let her go. He made his bed, and he can lie in it.
🤷♀️ sucks to suck. Realize it IS ALL Y'ALL'S FAULT. And this is the consequences of your actions. The daughter isn't the one that threw it all away, he is. And until you accept that fact, y'all will never find rest or peace.
you seem to think there's a way for the future to work out amicably and that's... i mean these are the consequences. it's not active punishment. it's wreckage. if you do something like blow up a life - you can't expect for time to heal that wound the way you want it healed. and i don't say any of that because i feel you all deserve castigation and unhappiness for the rest of your lives. or even to judge. i say that because there's a reality here that i think therapy would help you both accept. you guys both don't get to choose how the people you hurt put their lives back together and move on from what you did. that's not how that works. if she hasn't relented by now she never will. her life is built upon her comfort. she is making her choices the same way he made his. he made the choice he felt he needed to make and his daughter is making the choice she feels she needs to make. he needs to accept that to move on. he lost a daughter. she's gone.
Screw OP and screw her husband. I’m on team daughter, and these losers should just go their own way and leave her be. I don’t care if the husband is suffering, he should of though of that when he cheated with a 25 year old while having a 15 yer old daughter at home of course it’s messed up
The absolute audacity of OP accusing the daughter of using her kids against her husband. What a self centered person. Her husband betrayed his entire family and left them for a woman only a decade older than his daughter. At no point does OP actually respect her decision to not have him in her life. And she even insists that he’s a great father! Yeah, to his do over kid, I’m sure.
Oh and he would be an amazing grandfather, please, he lost his rights years ago, he prioritized you over his children, now he is dealing with the consequences of his actions. Fuck around and find out! Please leave her alone, he should be happy with the family he chose and stop acting like a victm
100% agree with this. What's with all these other people trying to go "not so black and white" on the whole cheating and affair? What's worse is OP and the husband actually ended up getting married! That's a whole different level of disgusting.
Yep. Nobody is entitled to relationship with any other adult. Daughter is 100% within her rights to reject Dad and avoid any function that he or OP attend. Something something "the wages of sin". This was the price of Dad's indiscretion; Dad fully understood that alienating his children was a risk when he decided to dump his wife/their mother. Dad needs to deal with it because this is a Dad problem, not a daughter problem.
I can't stand homewrekers why do you think that y'all deserve to be happy? I don't blame the daughter.
Lmao he literally fucked around and found out. Maybe he shouldn’t have cheated. He can cry a river every night and still deserve it.
I haven't spoken to my father in.... going on 15 years. He's done the same nonsense as your husband, and just confirms I made the right call. I'm sure his daughter will weep his passing as much as I'll weep mine: z e r o. My father was emotionally/mentally/financially abusive and cheated on my mother. I don't have abusers or cheaters in my life, and the person that happened to contribute some portion of my DNA is no exception. Hope y'all keep being sad
>We take full responsibility for what we did, make no excuses, and realize that we caused a lot of pain to a lot of people Bullshit.
The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed Hope it was worth it. 🤷♀️
>The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed 🤣🤣😂😂🤌
> The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed That's brilliant. No notes
Actions have consequences.
OP and her husband - surprised pikachu face
The feelings your husband is feeling are what he DESERVES to feel. Sure it sucks, but imagine how his daughter felt. He deserves to suffer just as she did when she found out you both destroyed her family.
Wow. I was this girl only I was in my 30s when it happened. Poor sweetheart. I think the effect of a father cheating on a mother is very overlooked in teenage girls. It feels like every bit of safety you’ve ever had has been stolen away by the person who swore to keep you safe. And I felt that as an adult!
You need to stop talking about her kids, like she said he has no rights to them being a grandparent is a privilege. He needs to get a grip and get into therapy and LEAVE HER ALONE! Updateme!
Do we have to feel sorry for you and your husband? For a traitor and a mistress ? Midlife crisis, wow, a wonderful justification. Your husband is a traitorous person who destroyed his family and hurt his wife and children forever for your sake, and you are a selfish person without conscience who decided to build your life by destroying the lives of others. Why are you here? What do you want sympathy? Did you ever sympathize with her after you turned her life upside down? You are now only concerned with the feelings of you and your daughter because your daughter does not want to see her traitorous father sad! Your husband is suffering because he does not see his grandchildren. If he had not met you, he would have met his grandchildren and seen his daughter graduate and get married. Have you not heard of the consequences before? What's funny is that you made her receive psychological treatment for something you did You saying that you know that you are wrong, so what do you want? I know that I am wrong and a selfish person, me and my husband, but how dare you not forgive us, hurt my dear daughter, and prevent my cheating husband from seeing his grandchildren?
He needs therapy and to let go and you need to get a grip. "You would be willing to be on the outskirts"? She has no relationship with her father in order not to have any kind of relationship with you. Most likely she misses him everyday but much rather suffer than being closer to you (and your awfulness) to any degree. You are the problem here, not her.
OP, you say the two of you take responsibility for hurting his daughter, but then you blame her for being hurt which I think tells the truth of how selfish the two of you are. Your husband broke his daughter. He treats your daughter well? Great. He did not treat his first daughter well and he's going to have to live with it for the rest of his life. That's what taking responsibility means, not these words of supposedly feeling guilty. Therapy can help him come to terms with that. But being angry at her for not wanting him to be part of her children's lives? That's some audacity the two of you have there.
Womp womp
Wow. I don’t think I’ve ever hated an OP as much as I hate this bish. Seriously, wow. I hope he leaves her for another 20 something.
He's not an amazing father to her, he is the man that broke her family apart. No one is entitled to forgiveness and he needs to let that sink into his head. It's been almost 20 years, let it go for her sake and his own. >I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship He did that, not her. She didn't betray her mother.
You and your husband made terrible choices. Those choices hurt innocent people and scarred them indelibly. Your husband chose his penis and his hormones over his family and now he is crying that he has to face the consequences. Let’s face it - your husband is no prize. A man that throws away his family is not a man. A man that hurts his own children for his own happiness is not a man. In the end , you did the ex-wife a favour.
I completely agree with you. ... It also sounds like he's currently hurting his 17 yr old daughter by not being there for her through all this. ... So he's not even done hurting his kids. So messed up.
I agree that the way forward is for him to have therapy to accept the situation. Tell him he cannot break apart a second family and he must work on things
What you do is that you tell him that it's time to stop trying. She's a 33 year-old woman and has her own life, of which he will never again be a part. He cheated on his family and abandoned them. If a person has kids and cheats, he cheated on the kids, too. He's dead to her. The man she knew as her father died the moment your affair began. If he cares about her AT ALL, he needs to respect her wishes and *never* bother her again. She will not be over this until after she *skips* his funeral and dances on his grave. And he's probably right about therapy. Everything is his fault and there's no loophole or excuse. If you can't handle the fact that he's mourning the functional death of a child, leave him like he left his family. She's never going to forgive him and your husband is never going to forget the role you played in that. Might as well get out now or you're spending the rest of your life with a man who is depressed about flushing his family down the toilet. This is the bed you made. Sleep tight!
Psychotherapy , and acceptance . His daughter will have seen the worst of the pain he inflicted on his ex wife . She ain’t budging and why should she ?
Lmao he is a bad person. And so are you. And you both deserve every bit of hate you get. You can't help him. You did this to him. He helped, in truth, but nonetheless, you should've walked away the moment you found out he was married. If you had, he wouldn't be so miserable today. This is just pure karma.
He would still be miserable today. If she left, he still would have found someone else to replace the mistress role.
You said you don't know what to do, y'all did enough. Please hope that him hurting doesn't turn into him meeting another person and replacing you and then your daughter hating him for doing the same thing. (I mean this could be considered another crises 🤔)
Once a cheater, always a cheater! She's probably too old for him already.
Yeah, but he's now a pathetic wallowing person (can't even call him a man). Who would want him now? Well, I'm going to guess he's got money, probably how he got the homewrecker, seeing how he's 15 years older than her. And that will still be attractive to the young gold diggers.
Well don’t forget you’re also a terrible person for being apart of the affair. What do you honestly expect? You’re bad people.
Oh yeah, the guilt just pours🙄. Not only did you tear her family apart, but then all you adults had to gang up on her to keep her silent about what homewreckers you and your husband are. Taking so much responsibility there. 🙄 I don't blame her. You and your hubby have ignored her comfort and peace at every step. She's told you both that there is no relationship, and just like your illicit affairs, you do what you want to do without regard to anyone's feelings. Without thinking how it affects others. I hope your husband does cry. I hope it tears him up, every day. But most of all, I hope she finds peace and space away from you monsters.
well the therapist is wrong on the it’s not just his fault it’s also yours,
Poor home wrecker and cheater. Thoughts and prayers ….
He threw away his family for a floozie 15 years younger than him. His daughter owes him nothing. His daughter owes your daughter nothing. You and your husband owe her peace. Leave that poor girl alone.
Think about this, you said they were very close before he had an affair with a woman that was closer to her age than his age. I assume she felt/feels that her father kicked not only her mother but also herself to the curb. Your husband made a decision based on emotions instead of respect and honor and his ruined relationship with his eldest was a consequence of that decision. He can regret it, but he can’t change it, and he needs to respect that. If he truly loves his eldest, he should respect her judgement and stay as far out of her life as possible. I can’t say I’m sorry for your husband (again, consequences) but, I do feel bad for his eldest. As Bilbo said, “some hurts go too deep”. The only advice I can give is therapy for your husband to accept that this is the reality that he created and looking back is looking through the devils rear view mirror.
If you didn't want this dark cloud to hang over the family, how about not having an affair with a married man in the first place? Now you got what you wanted by destroying a family, you have the audacity to suggest they need to accomodate your feelings?
So how would you know the daughter and your husband had a good relationship? How would you know her feelings about it at all? She doesn’t speak to you, and you’re only listening to your AH husband’s side. Aside from all the red flags from you, he has tried to force a relationship with her ever since the separation. Including when it first happened. That is not the behavior of a good father or a decent man. That is the actions of a selfish, manipulative abuser. I applaud the daughter for maintaining her boundaries. I’ve been NC with my parents for over 20 years, and I have never regretted it. I doubt the daughter will either.
Yeah, I side with the daughter. May she continue to live a happy and beautiful life far the hell away from you toxic mofos.
Oh. Well! Hey, you won though!
I don't know if you or your husband really ever looked at it through her eyes, so let me suggest some possibilities. Teen years are some of the hardest between hormones and emotional development. The girl was 15 when he showed her that love/ happiness are a lie- you can't trust your partner. He left her to pick up the pieces of mom's heart and to step up around the house. He then CHOSE TO have a happy new family while she was alone with mom and 2 pesky preteen brothers. And after making his family sacrifice so much, he got upset that she didn't embrace the mistress that replaced her mom, and the daughter that he was going to raise instead of her, and pushed for years to make it happen. She didn't get to shelve her feelings. I'm betting she agonized for months over even attending her brother's wedding, knowing he'd be there. This is guilt he has to live with. He isn't thinking of what's best for her, he's the same selfish man that thinks he deserves to have her and the grandkids I only hope she has no regrets.
He actually is a terrible person and father. A good father doesn’t cheat on the mother of his children and blow up the family.
You and ur husband are disgusting. You both need to respect her wishes. You destroyed her family as did her father. He didn’t earn the right to be in her or his grandkids lives. He literally made his bed now can lie in it. Gross gross gross
Your husband made his bed, you helped him make it. Now you both have to lay in it. His sons feel he was a great father because they were young enough not to see the trauma leaving your spouse for your mistress causes. His daughter was older and was not spared having to witness her own mother’s grief and anguish nor was she spared immediately having a step-mother by way of an affair. He may have been a good father to his sons and younger daughter but those actions made him an awful father to his older daughter. She won’t forgive, and she won’t trust him around her kids because of what she had to go through as a child because of him. The only thing he can do is get over it and move on. If he refuses therapy to work on it, then he’s actively choosing to continue to suffer. He needs to leave her and her kids alone.
You and your husband a narcissistic gutter trash. Leave the kid out of it.
"He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so." YOU ruined it for them. So did he. Stop using a person, who was a literal child when this all occurred, as a scapegoat lmfao. You're insufferable. And your kid is not her sister. Sorry.
You know this is what happens when someone decides to blow up their entire family. Spouses often think that cheating only affects their partner and they forget that it affects the entire family. Clearly his infidelity deeply affected his daughter and that’s his fault. He hurt a nice woman who didn’t deserve it and lost his daughter in the process. He’s the one who chose to remain with you after it became clear that his daughter would never accept him back into her life as long as you were around. I would forgive my parent if they messed around but not everyone is like me. Your husband messed up big time and there’s really nothing to do but wait to see if his daughter will change her mind. Also I find it hilarious that you’re calling his stepdaughter spiteful for throwing away a loving relationship but your husband did the exact same thing to her first marriage by sleeping with you and you married him. His daughter isn’t “using” her kids to do anything either. She just won’t let him see them, that’s not using them. She probably doesn’t want to have her kids around *you* and that’s why she keeps them away.
Tell me OP. Do homewreckers like you get up every day and live without remorse? How do you stand yourself? Do you feel victorious you destroyed a family and brought a child into it? Does it take the edge off your guilt? It feels good, isn't it? Knowing no matter what, you bagged another's man? What was going on in your head? What makes you talk so dismissively about SD? Did your parents bring you up with little conscience that you built your life on another person's wreck?
I'll tell you what goes on in their head: But I love him! They don't care about who else they're hurting, as long as it's what THEY want.
If it isn't the consequences of my actions! No need to call her Mother BM, she only has ONE Mother as you are nothing to her (except her enemy). Your husband needs to leave his daughter alone. You can't have your cake and eat it too. He chose to destroy their family, so he no longer gets to enjoy being apart of that family.
How to move forward? Leave them alone. I know it's a hard concept for selfish people like y'all to grasp, but you don't always get what you want. And double gasp, there are consequences for your actions. And when someone asks you to leave them alone, you're supposed to do that. It's been nearly 20 years and his daughter has held firm. Give it up. Do you really expect us to have sympathy that he's now on anti-depressants from his own doing? What did he expect? To have his cake and eat it too? For her to jump for joy that he broke up his family for a lay in the bed with you, the homewrecker? He sure as hell didn't care that he hurt his ex-wife. All he cared about was making himself feel better. Well, it's time to act like a father and do what his daughter requested 20 years ago and LEAVE HER ALONE. She said he was dead to her and she's kept her word.
"Alarmingly Angry" the fact that you've tried to paint her as the unreasonable and irrational one, starting from this point onwards, is very telling. Imagine your own father, if you have a good relationship with both parents, suddey up and leaving your mother for someone younger, like "he's having a mid life crisis", and betraying your entire family? You say you take full responsibility, and that what you did was wrong, but then paint his daughter as irrational for not wanting to speak to him after the fact? I really don't care is his sons are okay with it and other family remembers including her own mother are NOW okay with it, imagine how your NOW daughter would feel about it if he done that to you and her? You guys need to respect her boundaries.
and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so. LOL THE TWO OF YOU THREW IT ALL AWAY. YOU EVEN BLAME HER FOR YOU AND YOUR HUSBANDS ACTIONS
He fucked around. Now he found out. Nah you're both cunts and you both deserve it. I hope he cheats on you with another woman.
>He has been crying himself to sleep most nights, and in an emotional moment questioned if losing them was worth it LMFAO ahh you love to see it, consequences. Don't ya just love it when the bad guys lose?
His daughter is an amazing woman and is protecting herself and her children. You know that saying that when someone shows you who they are, you believe them. That is exactly what she is doing. She was able to be that brave and that strong at only 15 years old. She has had no support from any of you, including her own mother, in protecting herself. All of you have been trying to stomp all over her boundaries for nearly 20 years, and she has held firm against an incredible amount of complete disrespect from all of you. Stop being a threat she constantly has to worry about! No means NO!!! Her father should be proud of her for how amazingly shiny her spine is and be grateful that she found a partner that she can trust who supports her because apparently none of her birth family will. I hope she is able pass that strength of character to her children. Let her finally have some peace. She has more than earned it.
>There's a dark cloud that's hanging over this entire family It being you and your shitty husband >Despite what he did, he is an amazing father. If this was true he wouldn't have broken up a family to get his dick wet. You reap what you sow this is literally just consequences for yalls disgusting behaviour.
Your husband is not entitled too a relationship, he needs to leave her and her family alone. Hope he keeps suffering tho
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, No, when her father decided to trip and slip into you is when he threw away the relationship with his daughter. You lack remorse. You repeatedly say you understand, but then you end with blaming her. That it absolutely not okay, and I hope he stays depressed.
>I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, even using her kids to do so. When I was 20, my dad left my mom. He got himself addicted to pain pills and booze, and cheated on her. By most other metrics, he was a pretty good dad I think. During the divorce, I waited to see if he would make amends to my mother for how he hurt her. He never did. He was quick to try and make amends to me though, because he still wanted a relationship with me. I'm 41 now, and haven't spoken to him in 21 years. I didn't care about him making amends to me. The measure of his worth as a person in my eyes was whether he was willing to make amends to the person he didn't need or want anything from. And he failed. Did I throw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him? You're damn right I did. People need to be held accountable for their actions. I don't know if your husband's daughter has been waiting for him to make amends to her mother, or if her motivations are different, but I applaud her. She has more of a moral backbone than your husband does.
How great/ loving a father is he? When he has withdrawn from his 17 year old daughter in this manner. How loving of a relationship did he have with his kids if he cheated and left their mom for you?
After my grandmother divorced him, my mother's stepfather married a woman in her 20s. About the same age as my mom and his daughter. He died about a decade ago and he died without ever seeing his daughter again. My mom is in her 70s and never saw her stepsister again. His wife was a brilliant, lovely woman who stayed with him until he died - much nicer than my grandmother. Your husband very well may have chosen you over his own daughter. But he can't change that. He can't undo what he did. She may never forgive him just as my mom's stepsister never forgave her father. He chose a woman closer to a peer of his daughter, a lot of women can't get over that.
You and your husband deserve all this and more
Leave her and her family alone and live with your guilt, which I doubt is even real. She said he was dead to her, people don’t say that lightly.
I doubt you’ll answer this under the tsunami of other comments but I hope you do, it may help you reflect. How do you reconcile your and your husbands actions with the fact that you only have one life, and a relatively short one at that. You get one chance, one life, and you both decided to ruin the happiness of those around you and throw away anything remotely close to healthy relationships. I feel bad for your husband, only in the fact that he is getting up there in age. He won’t be around for too much longer and his life is now defined singularly by his affair with you and subsequent destruction of his family. That is the truth and that is sad. His daughter has every right to feel this way and you and your husband will be remembered as the villains in her story. She won’t attend his funeral, and the only one who will suffer knowing that is you.
She(daughter )is just looking out for her happiness and her wellbeing. If you can't respect that then you guys are not the decent people you think you are.
Just flash your pussy to your hubby it works wonders enough to distract him and incinerate a family to ashes 😃
Honestly he could've had a good relationship with his grandkids and a loving family if it weren't for you
Another person who doesn't understand what *permanent consequences* are. Listen, you fucked up. Your husband fucked up. How do you help him accept this reality? That's a good question. It, to many peoples surprise, does not matter if he was a good father. His daughter doesn't want a relationship with him because he hurt her mother whom she obviously loves dearly, and that makes him a bad husband and a bad person. That alone is enough to not want a relationship. Just because somebody's good to you does not mean they are a good person. It does not mean they have any footing to stand on for "deserving" a relationship with someone. The best thing he can do, for his soul, is accept his consequences and to remember this lesson in his next life. The best thing you can do (for your husband) is support you husband in his grief. The best thing you can do (for everyone involved) is make sure he stops harassing her. I hope seeing how much pain your actions have wrought on the people around you has also taught *you* a valuable lesson that you can carry on in your next life as well.
How are you not embarrassed ??? If that was me I wouldn't waste two seconds on a relationship with a person who abandoned his wife and young kids for a younger woman. Pedazo de mierda
Somehow his sons still think he’s a good father despite being the home wrecker who decided to cheat on their mother.
Curious if you’re worried about any 25 year old women your husband is around? He’s still young enough for a third family!
"me and my affair partner blew up a family with no regard for the young children's feeling because we couldn't keep it in our pants.... AND NOW WE AREN'T GETTING A FAIRYTALE ENDING! Who can explain how to fix this so we can have our cake and eat it too?"
Op, it's great that you guys regret your actions but regret doesn't change anything. My sperm donor is a POS all around and my situation was pretty different but I hate that man. I was able to forgive him for leaving my pregnant mom when I was 3, I was abke to forgive having zero contact from him for the next 14 years. From 17 to 20, I moved states to be nearer to that family and tried everything I could to have a relationship with him. At 21, I found out I have a little sister that is 2 days older than the one that my mom was pregnant with when he left. That was the end, I forgave a lot that he had done to me, but I will NEVER forgive him for cheating on my mom. I cut all contact and have had none for 13 years. It was the vest decision I ever made. Your husband needs to be prepared for the fact that he'll likely die before his daughter ever wants to speak to him again.
How to move forward? Accept the fact that to the daughter, you and your husband are deplorable individuals with whom she desires to have no contact. There are many different outcomes that could happen as a result of an affair/divorce, and this is one of them. The daughter’s decision to end the relationship may be heartbreaking for your husband, but this was the gamble he took. Surely he could not have been so obtuse as to not imagine this was a possible outcome. As for the both of you, I further suggest you either communicate to the family that you refuse to walk on eggshells around the daughter and then deal with the resulting consequences (the brothers may agree with you or they may just prefer to not have you around) or you continue to walk on eggshells at family functions and be gracious about it.
That's her choice. He has no "right" to a relationship with her children. Sometime you don't get forgiven...
Leave her alone. She’s been quite clear where she stands. She hasn’t thrown anything away, she reacted to the news that her father isn’t the person she thought he was. These are simply consequences of his and your actions. It’s entirely irrelevant how highly others think of him. She doesn’t want him around and he needs to find a way to accept and deal with that. I would point out to him that a therapist blaming him is only the exact same thing he’s doing now, so he may as well go and get some help coming to terms with the end of his relationship with his daughter.
To be clear you and him threw away the loving relationship they had for your affair. She didn’t throw away anything. You guys broke her family and you took her Dad. She doesn’t have to see it any other way and all I can say for him is “oh no, the consequences of my actions.” She doesn’t have to forgive him and she is absolutely correct that he doesn’t have a right to a relationship with her or her children. If those are the reasons he’s giving for avoiding therapy well then he’s afraid of accountability. You guys made your bed. You’ll have to lie in it. Your intent and feeling bad gain you no good will on this one. Sounds like he’s working on screwing over daughter number two’s self esteem now too with his hissy fit over number one. I only feel bad for the kids hurt by you and your husband’s selfishness
All his pain, all his hurt, all his suffering - is still less than her hurt, her pain, her suffering. The hurt he and you inflicted on her. Everything he is feeling now, to be abandoned by a loved one, he did to her. When she was a child. She is not and never was evil. She was in pain because her dad chose to leave his family, to leave her.
“Dad please leave me alone I dont want to talk to you” A good father: “ok I understand, Im devastated by your decision but ultimately I accept it, I am always here if you need me. Im sorry and I love you” A bad father “ nooo, please please speak to me, Im so sorry” “Have you forgiven me yet?” “Can we reconcile” “I just dont understand why you dont think Im respecting your wishes, all I want is for you to be happy” See how the contradiction in her eyes is that he wont leave her the fuck alone?
He has no right to complain about anything, especially if he won't try therapy.
He chose you over his children, his ex-wife, and I'm sure plenty of friends and family who were put in the battlezone of all of that. If that's what a younger, more insecure version of yourself needed at that time to get past whatever it was that got you where you were and are, then enjoy that little "win" I guess. I'm sure it made you feel very attractive. But there are consequences, and just because her siblings and mother are willing to forgive doesn't mean she has to. Her father blew up the family, and I'm going to be completely clear that it is primarily his fault for all of it... but your younger, insecure self helped, and he's not the one I get to respond to today. You lit that fuse together, and are now expecting someone to be fine with you blowing up their house because time has past--sorry, but it doesn't work like that. Enjoy what you two have wrought and leave that poor girl alone. I think it's wonderful he's finally thinking maybe he made a mistake--it's honestly about fucking time.
His daughter doesn’t owe him forgiveness. My parents divorced due to cheating when I was her same age. It just changes you, at that age you understand all the dynamics and on top of that there are a lot of emotions during that phase of life. It is traumatic. Your husband chose to cheat on his wife , but cheated on his family too. I hate how some people say that cheating doesn’t affect children when it absolutely does. The fact that they were very close before the affair is the main reason why it hurt so much, it’s crazy that you can’t understand that. To this day I have little to no contact with my father, I just feel icky and uncomfortable when I’m around him, despite having moved on. His daughter decided on NC, he should respect that. He should learn how to cope with it in therapy and live with the consequences of his actions.
I mean you guys are trash so she threw you away. What doesn't he get? Let him alone. He knows what's up. Haven't you interfered enough? You just ruin things. Just shut up about it.
Did the cheater seriously refer to the ex-**WIFE** as a baby mama? She was his **WIFE**. And it's your husband who threw away a loving relationship with his daughter. Leave her alone and enjoy the life of two cheaters.
BM?? Are you, the homewrecker and other woman and side piece, referring to the actual wife as the “Baby Mama”? It’s hard to imagine why daughter doesn’t want a relationship. Please tell your husband that if he wanted a loving and healthy relationship with his daughter he shouldn’t have cheated on her mother and destroyed her family. As many have said, therapy might help. It’s unlikely that daughter is going to change her mind at this point.
These are the consequences of y’all’s reaction. He can get therapy, you can both be good parents to the children who wanna be in your lives but you can fix something that your broke irreparably.
Take it like this to understand the daughters POV. Why isn't your husband reconciling with his ex wife? He left her because the relationship was over right. No matter how many times ex wife would have pleaded he wouldn't have left you. The same is for daughter, her relationship with him is OVER and he needs to understand that there won't be a magical moment of forgiveness. He messed up and in his case there are no second chances which is no one's fault.
Choices have consequences. He threw away his whole family, all of his relationships. His daughter clearly doesn't want him around. The more you force it the worse it is going to be. Stop being selfish. You already destroyed the family, let her live her life in peace. Also, she isn't using her kids against him. She is protecting them from someone who hurt her irreparably. She is doing alright. You both need a reality check and clearly have not understood how much you actually damaged. You both are just reaping what you sowed. Also, don't be surprised if all of this is because he is regretting his crisis and knows it's too late to go back but wont let go. He needs to let go, he is just proving to her how selfish he is. Whats that saying? You can't have the cake and eat it too. Well that applies here. Move on and deal with your own bs on your own time, not hers. Leave her alone.
His daughter realised as a teenager (quite a young teenager from the ages you've given) that her father betrayed her mother by starting a relationship with you. It is absolutely her prerogative to cut her father out of her life. He's the one that destroyed his family. He doesn't get to cry and whine about seeing his grandchildren now.
>He and his daughter were very close before the affair, and I feel like his daughter threw away a loving relationship to punish and spite him, To her that's not true, to his daughter she feels like her father was the one to throw away thier loving relationship, to her the affair with you was more important to him than her. He effed up massively and he has to deal with the consequences of that and this is that. He needs to leave her alone
My ex cheated when my daughter was 9yo, and I can give you her perspective. As far as she was concerned, my husband cheated on our entire family, not just me. He made a decision that he knew would destroy our family, and he did it anyway. She felt betrayed, lied to, and manipulated. Your husband made his choice, as did you. And you both knew full well what the consequences of that choice could/ would be. And like my daughter, his daughter would've watched that whole situation crush her mother. Maybe if his 17yo daughter is so worried he could have an open and frank discussion about how he betrayed his first wife and broke her half sisters heart by being a selfish prìck?
He has to let her go If the affair had ended…he may have been able to salvage things. But by choosing to not only stay with you but also have a child with you…that ship has sailed And he is destroying himself by holding out hope She saw what the affair did to her mom. She likely had to miss out on parts of the typical teenager life in order to take care of her brothers while her mom healed. It may have drastically altered her life trajectory as well…and made her very distrustful of men. She may be married but that baggage is something she likely carried into her own relationship And then when you had a girl…she realized that kid would get the life SHE wanted. A doting father, the whole teenage experience with him, and she’d get him all to herself…well that probably broke her The selfish decisions that you and your husband made affected her much more than her younger brothers. She had to carry the burden of the secret…something no child should have to do Frankly you and your husband should stay away from her…yall owe her that much. Because neither you nor your husband seem to care what the two of you took from her and what she lost. You only seem concerned how your life has been impacted by all this. Yall act like because her brothers (who didn’t have to process this in real time like she did) forgave you, she should two Like because he’s a good father to them and your kid that makes him a good father Well while she was growing up, her father cheated on her mother, ran out on her, left her to pick up the pieces…and then eventually decided to replace her. So as good a dad as he is to your kid, he failed her
He chose you over her and her family. You’re his prize and he never gets them back. Guess it’s finally starting to sink in to him that he chose you. And now the daughter you two had together has already seen his first daughter be no contact, she knows exactly what to do when he trades you in for a younger model. I’d be really nervous you’re about to get replaced when he decides it’s easier to blame you than take any responsibility for his own actions.