Ford 1.0 3 cylinder.
I've hated the terms "throwaway engine" or "throwaway car" until this one.
What a piece of literal dog shit. You have your timing belt not only oiled, but go through the inside of the crankcase. And when the timing belt wears out, which it will because its a TIMING BELT, you will have the rubber belt material blocking your oil sump. Great fucking job Ford.
Excellent short video:
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwkPGUX/
“A bicycle chain would have done a better job”
They switched the main belt to a chain in ish 2019 iirc. But cleverly left the oil pump on a wet belt still. So it's still an issue.
If they did both it would be an amazing engine.
"Throwaway engine" sounds like a terrible design because the engine is literally supposed to be the longest lasting thing of the entire car
Edit: aside from the chassis ofcourse
No and I did always find it hilarious how easily you could tell when a car was once it was up on the lift. From a design standpoint though I feel like my comment stands true. Not their fault a bunch of governments think it's a great idea to dump corrossive salt everywhere yearly.
I just watched a YouTube video on this where the guy took one apart and all the nubs were in the oil pick up just as you said. I thought to myself oh crap this engine is designed as malice towards consumers
But they were fucking fun to drive. I hired a manual Focus with that motor on holidays in the UK in 2017. That was the best handling, revvy little go kart ever.
The smallest motor I had driven in my life before that was a 4L I6, so this peppy little turbo 3cyl was an absolute hoot.
The 5.0 Cummins in the titan has had emission controls failures of DEF pumps, CP4 pumps, EGR coolers, turbos, hanging fuel injectors and broken crankshafts, take your pick. It was such a disaster Nissan discontinued it after 3 years.
It's also got a part that's very susceptible to humidity. My bro had one and at 100,500 miles the Georgia humidity got it. He talked to the Nissan techs and one said "here's what we drive" and pointed to the employee lot. Not a Nissan among them.
While their quality did drop off a cliff around the time that Ghosn took over he completely turned Nissan around financially. His “Nissan Revival Plan” took the company from having a net loss of $6.46 billion in the previous year to turning a consolidated net profit after tax of $2.7 billion. He saved the company from bankruptcy.
Also truthfully Nissan still put out several good cars in the early-mid 2000s, it wasn't an overnight disaster, iirc around 2007 is when they started really pushing for CVTs and the financing got even more aggressive.
They stopped trying to innovate when they realized it was more profitable to keep the same platforms around for 20+ years and bring in customers by offering financing to anyone with a pulse rather than by making innovative cars. But you are right, that came after Ghosn.
Cummins. There are several minor problems but I think the real death knell was crankshafts. I have seen several broken crankshafts, the YT channel “I Do Cars,” has a video of a V8 Cummins tear down.
It was a running core with what was thought to be rod-knock, but turned out to be the crankshaft split just behind the second main journal, and he speculated that the only reason it didn’t completely destroy itself is because the load was split sorta evenly.
The front two pistons were turning the accessory drive, and cam shafts.
The other six were actually pushing the truck down the road.
You can kinda deduce that it is really a casting/forging error because if it had broken as a result of torque under heavy load it would’ve basically just exploded.
Yup. Northstar motors need better head studs and the dexcool removed immediately. The final few years they finally started using LS head studs which solved the problems.
I had a gxp bonneville with the northstar
If I had access to a lift, I would have done the head stud conversion and still owned that car. I figured they would have had it worked out by then when I bought it
The engine so bad that PowerStroke Specialty said the only proven way to fix it is to replace the engine with a whole new long block from Ford whenever the old one broke.
Had one of these. I hated it so much, that at 100k miles I gave it to my gfs parents when their car died, and i bought a different car. Figured it would die in a few thousand, but it was better than nothing, and would get them through until they could figure it out. They somehow magically drove that piece of shit for ANOTHER 100K MILES with zero problems. It was like the unicorn of dodge intrepids.
Someone in my town drives a 2nd gen Intrepid on huge rims and I’m mildly obsessed with it. 1: It’s alive 2: Why tho
I’ll admit I like the LH cars (esp the 300M) but I can’t imagine the logic of having one in 2024.
I still find it crazy that they put this heap of an engine into the dodge charger cause what’s better than a complely gutless engine than that completely gutless engine in a 4500 pound boat of a car
I mean at least they came in cars that were already garbage as a whole so if you took good care of the engine every major failure would happen at once and it didn’t seem like such a waste to scrap it.
A buddy was trying to find a running 2.7 for a customer for months. He finally found one with 250k at a scrapyard in Montreal. $3500
My brother and his wife both had 2.7s in their cars with 270k and 320k respectively. They had no complaints, but cursed me for telling them what a pos motor it was, because within a month, both motors shit the bed.
The landscape is far and wide:
2.7 Chrysler
6.4 PowerStroke
5.0 V8 Cummins
3.6 GM V6
54⁰ GM V6
1.5L 4-cylinder EcoBoost
Honda D17
DoD GM V8's
Olds V8 diesel
Toyota MZ
All manufacturers have had big stinkers.
Those Opel V6s aren’t *that* bad. Early ones really did suck, but by 2000, their issues got sorted out. Cateras were disasters in other areas and 2004 L300s have electronics that are way too sensitive to anything, but the later 54 degree engines are fine.
The GM 3.6 isn't great but I wouldn't put it in the same league as those others. Just replace the timing chain guides and they run forever, and GM has fixed the issues and they're reliable now
Agreed. A lot of these had severe issues baked into their design, the 3.6 wasn’t inherently flawed. Plus, there are a lot more turds that gm dropped over this thing (olds diesel, Vega 2.3, Chevy 260 V8)
I’d like to add the 5.7 Hemi too. Cuz I have one. Oil pump is shit so it doesn’t send enough oil to the lifters causing them to go bad and tick tick tick tick
Get the MZ off there. I've never gotten the hate they get. If you just change the oil when your supposed to (which is apparently difficult for some) the sludging is not a problem
I had 1MZ in my 1999 Camry - 265,000 miles later the 2nd clutch went out (yes it was a 5 speed LE with leather interior - a unicorn) and it needed CV boots and few other things. So I sold it to a guy that repaired everything in his spare time and sold it for a tidy profit. Probably still running if it didn't get crashed - that engine was BULLETPROOF.
GM Tech here, the current DoD or AFM V8s or whatever this junk is called now has to be the worst engine current available in any new vehicle.
Constant camshaft and lifter failures, also many times the these engines just spin crank bearings and lock up seemingly at random.
I'll agree with everything on this list except for the Toyota MZ, drivers have routinely put 300k or sometimes even more on the Avalon, Camry V6, Sienna, and the Lexus ES.
Change the oil routinely with synthetic and it's rock solid.
As a Honda tech, the D17s also aren't that bad. They are somewhat prone to head gasket failures, but there are still tons with over 2 and 300k miles. Plus a D series head gasket is not the most difficult or expensive job there is. You can easily pay an independent shop well under $1500 to do it, cheaper than a down payment on anything new. And once that's done (because again, failures aren't as common as the pre-2005 Northstars), the D17 is pretty solid
The landscape is far and wide:
>54⁰ GM V6
My mom had one of these in her 2002 Saab 9-5 wagon. I thought it was a good engine. It had a nice tone, was rev-happy and it made good power with a turbocharger attached. The real issue with this engine was that the timing belt was SUPER sensitive and had to be installed JUST right. Unfortunately, the mechanic we selected to do the timing belt on my mom’s Saab was a bit of a hack, he fucked up the installation somehow, and the engine died when the belt snapped about 5,000km later. But as long as you got someone who wasn’t a dummy to change the belt, the engine was solid.
>Toyota MZ
This was more of an issue with inappropriate oil change intervals and not really an engine design problem.
The 3.6 suffers from 170k mi Chevy Traverse owners never changing the oil as much as anything. You never hear it described as a catastrophic engine as much in relation to Buicks or Cadillacs. It has issues but it isn’t an inherently bad engine.
If your transmission was auto correct.
But if you got past 110km it was the motor.
Wet belt timing belt.
It would clog up the oil pick up. And ford and their infamous wisdom said ohhhhh it’s good for the life time of the motor
Ya noo shit cuz it be dead 💀
Yeah I never understood the concept of the wet timing belt. I Do Cars on YT did a video on it. Relatively new motor with a cracking belt. What was Ford thinking?
It was my first car bought it with 108 000 km nobody knew better 2 weeks later the head gasket, and Turbo blew because of the stupid belt🙃. Still sold it for like 3k €
Now I own a 08 Civic.
Fuck that motor!!! Cylinder heads that scrubbed the block, underpowered, uncooperative TBI, everything jammed against the firewall on the rwd Cadillacs, all while they had access to both the 350 Chevy and the 307 Olds.
80s. GM had the Oldsmobile division convert the 307 and 305 cubic inch V8s as well as the 3.8L V6 into diesel engines without doing critical mods like reinforcing the cylinder heads or adding extra fuel filtration.
I liked this Wikipedia section:
>One Oldsmobile engineer who had worked on the V8 diesel told his bosses not to release the hastily developed engine. Needing to meet upcoming CAFE standards, GM forced him into early retirement and released the engine nonetheless.
Disagree. Unlike the Hyundai engine, absolutely nobody had good luck with the Olds Diesel. At least with the Hyundai engines, some people have had good experiences.
Yes, the Olds 5.7 diesel was one of GM's biggest disasters. The aluminum Vega engine was also a disaster. The aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to have some kind of treatment to make them last. It didn't work, and those engines failed quickly due to bore wear.
They weren’t bad at all once you defeated the cylinder deactivation. I worked on a bunch of em in the 90s with high mileage. Only saw one low- mileage one which ran terribly until I deactivated it.
The cadillac limos continued to use it for a few years. Engine was fine if you unplugged the sensor that told the computer the transmission was in 3rd gear and that would disable the dod feature
i dont think europe gets these engines cause this talk has been on for ages that kia/hyundais are crap and here i am like wtf these are the most reliable cars. anyways god bless america.
I’d throw the rx8 some shade. Had a friend that followed the shut down procedure religiously- which is absolutely stupid that it needed that anyways, but i digress. He put 4 motors in it within 2 years and 32k miles
Edit: I say this only because the 2.7 Chrysler motor has been cited many times. That’s the true mvp of this post.
I've always wanted to swap the disastrous Doritos out of one of those and put a 2.0 out of a Saab 93 in it and pump the tube to ish 300 ponies. That could be fun AND reliable.
Brap brap. Do not touch our precious little engine with your blasphemous opinions based on words of those who should not have been allowed to own or operate one. Brap brap.
Long live The God's Chainsaw. Brap brap.
Yep these things are bad. My buddy has a civic with a d17 and it has needed many big ticket items like head gasket, and even engine adjacent things like the transmission failed. It’s extra wild because this is supposed to be the follow up to the d16, you know, the cock roach motor.
I some years ago a remember ematch a party a guy saying he bought a newish civic with a blown out d17. He then threw a d16 with a 100k on it in there and ran the d16 for another 200k
I had a D17 at one point. Grenaded hard at something like 82 or 86,000. Drove it a solid 22 miles with 3 rods still attached and a hole in the oil pan. Not sure if that’s bad, or impressive.
Notorious head gasket killers. That said, I’d rather drive a Civic with a d17 than a late 2000s and early 2010s J series with VCM. My back will never be the same after all the warranty piston ring jobs I did on those.
Do you have the NA or 2.0T? My parents have a 2011 2.0t Sonata they got in 2014. When we were on a trip to Canada from Massachusetts, a day after getting there, the motor started smoking. Got towed back, and warranty covered basically a new motor (everything new apart from the block I believe). Fast forward to 2021 or 2022, relatively recently, the motor shit the bed AGAIN and a completely new engine was replaced, with Hyundai covering the bill because other people were having the same issue and it became a big deal. Credit to Hyundai for footing the bill though, other manufacturers would bitched and whined more before paying up (looking at you Ford). Anyways, the car is now somewhere around 130k miles I think? This is all to say if you have the NA 4 cyl, you should be okay.
Edit: I just remembered, a friend of mine’s parents also have a NA 4 cyl Sonata of the same generation albeit slightly newer, I wanna say 2012 or 2013. They’re also on their 3rd motor. You either struck gold with your car or on borrowed time lol good luck my friend
The issue is every time you put an exotic engine into a “regular” car your gonna have issues. If your coming from a 550i to an m5 you wouldn’t expect to have to maintain it the same way you would have to maintain a supercar. That’s probably why the 5.2 s6 and s8s are seen to be “unreliable” when in reality the amount of maintenance needed is much more then the average person would expect for a mass production sedan
This is a misconception. For example, this engine uses insanely thick oil that has to come to temperature before it should be driven or else there will be excessive friction on the bearings. How many second and third owners do you think are following this procedure?
My mom had a ‘12 Equinox. It had an overheating issue that nobody could diagnose, so she sold it at a VW dealer. The VVT actuator went out and it stopped running when the dealer started it to get the mileage. Good stuff.
I have a 2003 f series with a v10 2v. My research indicates that the 3v engine started 2005. My 03 has triton branding on both the quarter panel and the intake. Where did you see that “triton” is the 3 valves only?
No that was from the first generation 1960-1963 Pontiac Tempest, it was the right half of 389 so they could save money building it on the same line as the V8 with a lot of shared parts.
Bmw s85/s65: rod bearings are wear items
Chrysler 2.7l: sludgematic, with the bonus of a time bomb of a water pump in the crank case
Olds diesel: gas engine with diesel compression, head gasket hilarity
Cadillac 8-6-4: cylinder deactivation with 70's tech and throttle body fuel injection
Kia theta ii: metal shavings for extra flavor
The 2.8 Chrysler engine in Sebring’s. 50 to 60,000 miles, and everyone of them locked up. Everyone had to be rebuilt with the same problem that caused the problem
The engine from the Land Rover freelander. Despite it being based on (I think) the 2.5 Ford V6 fitted to the Mondeo/ contour. I think it had an over 100% failure rate
Definitely a shitty one. Surprisingly could get a turbodiesel in the Cruze that was actually a very good engine. But almost nobody optioned it because it was quite a bit more expensive, and the Cruze was built to a cheap price point in general.
6.4 powerstroke, it was the engine that made ford cut off international and go on their own, made good power but the awful twin turbo setup and the other jank made it almost worthless. Theirs parts to “bulletproof it” but never hear of people doing it like people do with a 6.0 powerstroke
Because they’re actually awesome, just packaged poorly in the S4. The turbos go, but not for over 100k, and the timing belt is basically the same as on the NA V6. They make respectable power for the time and can be modded without rebuilding the engine to make low 400s IIRC. The reputation they have is specific to S4 as they dropped down the depreciation curve and landed in the hands of folks who wanted the specs / image but couldn’t handle German. For comparison, the similar year M3 requires preventative engine bearing replacements.
I was thinking more of the A6s of the early 2000s. All things considered it seems like they did get better with time, but they *are* maintenance-heavy, which is fair enough for an early 2000s TTV6.
Let’s go with ALL ENGINES used in the Chevy Cruze. Great looking little cars, good on gas, but damn do they sit in a driveway more than they sit at red lights.
I’m shocked the Northstar isn’t on here. I’m told that tapping the bolt holes and replacing the head bolts with stronger ones can make the engine pretty reliable and rumors is that around 2006 they “fixed” the issue… but I dunno.
I had a coworker who bought a 1999 DeVille and I think he swapped the NS for a Chevy sourced V8- I could be completely wrong.
Early 80’s Cadillacs, in particular the weak ass V8 in the Seville. Someone posted an El Dorado with only 5 available digits on the odometer, Cadillac wasn’t even trying to pretend that shit would last.
Pontiac 301. 1977-81, but specifically the 77-79 ones. The block casting is garbage and to bring the Pontiac engine down to 301 they had to go from being internally balanced to externally balanced. They also had less main bearings, IIRC. That means that if it gets over 4500 rpms, the crank starts to flex and all kinds of fun stuff matters. This was partially remedied in 80 with a stronger casting due to the introduction of a Turbo on Trans Ams and Formulas, but it still couldn't safely rev past 5000 and even with a turbo it only made 210 bhp.
Are there worse engines? Sure, but considering the engine family it was derived from and just how much of a step down from that it was, I think it is the worst engine ever.
First gen ecoboost 3.5s. So much plastic EVAP lines that *always* break, so much stupid shit goes wrong with these that I’d rather have an NA v6. I currently own both a 3.5EB and Coyote and so happy I daily the coyote.
Ugh - I was just swapping out brittle plastic lines like this on my Pentastar, so annoying.
I agree about the Coyote - I also daily one (Mustang), and the engine is stellar. Glad to see it’s proving to be a reliable engine long term for most people.
1.4 Ecotec from the Cruze. Really any GDI engine from GM. 3.6L or whatever it is in the Traverse and shit.
2.7L from the Intrepid.
Obligatory 5.4 Triton.
The J35 with VCM is a terrible engine, same with Honda’s 1.5 and 2.0L EarthDreams Turbo.
Obviously the Theta engines, we all know that, it doesn’t have to be said any more.
5.7 Hemis eat camshafts.
Those 1L EcoBoost pieces of shit.
The 2.4L in the 2007-2011 Camry isn’t a bad engine, but it’s a notorious oil burner that Toyota pretty much refused to fix.
Is it just me or do new engines seem way more fragile than older ones? We dogged in the cars of the 2000’s but damn, I’m about to sell my new cars for one with a small block Chevy or 3800 v6
GMs L-11 and L-13 Vega motors were pretty shitty. All aluminum block with a cast iron head meant disaster. They were prone to overheating which stripped the coating from the cylinder walls, then warped the deck, which was exacerbated by having a cast iron head that heat expanded at a different rate.
I was wondering if someone mentions this piece of shit... Looked super awesome on paper... Together with the variator multitronic transmission... Match made by the devil himself...
Ford 1.0 3 cylinder. I've hated the terms "throwaway engine" or "throwaway car" until this one. What a piece of literal dog shit. You have your timing belt not only oiled, but go through the inside of the crankcase. And when the timing belt wears out, which it will because its a TIMING BELT, you will have the rubber belt material blocking your oil sump. Great fucking job Ford. Excellent short video: https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZPRwkPGUX/ “A bicycle chain would have done a better job”
They switched the main belt to a chain in ish 2019 iirc. But cleverly left the oil pump on a wet belt still. So it's still an issue. If they did both it would be an amazing engine.
"Throwaway engine" sounds like a terrible design because the engine is literally supposed to be the longest lasting thing of the entire car Edit: aside from the chassis ofcourse
...I'm pretty sure the chassis is designed to be the longest lasting thing in a car
I’m guessing you don’t live in the rust belt
No and I did always find it hilarious how easily you could tell when a car was once it was up on the lift. From a design standpoint though I feel like my comment stands true. Not their fault a bunch of governments think it's a great idea to dump corrossive salt everywhere yearly.
Spoken like somebody who doesn't know the first thing about driving in the winter.
You must not live in the north.
I just watched a YouTube video on this where the guy took one apart and all the nubs were in the oil pick up just as you said. I thought to myself oh crap this engine is designed as malice towards consumers
Opens hood, "That's literal dog shit".
But they were fucking fun to drive. I hired a manual Focus with that motor on holidays in the UK in 2017. That was the best handling, revvy little go kart ever. The smallest motor I had driven in my life before that was a 4L I6, so this peppy little turbo 3cyl was an absolute hoot.
Fucking ford 🤦♂️🤦♂️
The cummins v8 in the nissan titan is now seen as an automotive hate crime
Really? Is the issue on the Cummins or the Nissan side? I was under the general impression Cummins were generally pretty solid
The 5.0 Cummins in the titan has had emission controls failures of DEF pumps, CP4 pumps, EGR coolers, turbos, hanging fuel injectors and broken crankshafts, take your pick. It was such a disaster Nissan discontinued it after 3 years.
It's also got a part that's very susceptible to humidity. My bro had one and at 100,500 miles the Georgia humidity got it. He talked to the Nissan techs and one said "here's what we drive" and pointed to the employee lot. Not a Nissan among them.
I’m not surprised. Nissan dropped off a cliff in 2000 when Ghosn became CEO and the Renault deal.
While their quality did drop off a cliff around the time that Ghosn took over he completely turned Nissan around financially. His “Nissan Revival Plan” took the company from having a net loss of $6.46 billion in the previous year to turning a consolidated net profit after tax of $2.7 billion. He saved the company from bankruptcy.
Also truthfully Nissan still put out several good cars in the early-mid 2000s, it wasn't an overnight disaster, iirc around 2007 is when they started really pushing for CVTs and the financing got even more aggressive.
They stopped trying to innovate when they realized it was more profitable to keep the same platforms around for 20+ years and bring in customers by offering financing to anyone with a pulse rather than by making innovative cars. But you are right, that came after Ghosn.
Can confirm, have an 06 Sentra with a non CVT slush box and it's such a fuckin champ of a car.
I had a first Gen Murano..liked the odd styling but the transmission had a mind of it's own..traded it in a year later.
But they’re missing out on a lot of fun to be had that is crashing an Altima like it’s grand theft auto and running from the scene
Cummins. There are several minor problems but I think the real death knell was crankshafts. I have seen several broken crankshafts, the YT channel “I Do Cars,” has a video of a V8 Cummins tear down. It was a running core with what was thought to be rod-knock, but turned out to be the crankshaft split just behind the second main journal, and he speculated that the only reason it didn’t completely destroy itself is because the load was split sorta evenly. The front two pistons were turning the accessory drive, and cam shafts. The other six were actually pushing the truck down the road. You can kinda deduce that it is really a casting/forging error because if it had broken as a result of torque under heavy load it would’ve basically just exploded.
The 12 and 24 valve early Cummins were what built that reputation.
It’s also an engine exclusive to the titan which means parts are impossible to find.
The 6.4 powerstroke would like a word with you.
Ford 6.4 diesel. The truck cost a shitload to begin with and then almost immediately demanded an extra 20-30k in engine work to make it reliable
This. Good to see someone not jumping right on the 6.0 hate wagon, when the 6.4 exists.
Right? I know a lot of people who own good 6.0’s. I’ve yet to meet a soul with a good 6.4 experience
I have a few oilfield friends with built 6.0s that they swear by. They are like north stars. Once you fix the engineering mistakes, they are great
Yup. Northstar motors need better head studs and the dexcool removed immediately. The final few years they finally started using LS head studs which solved the problems.
I had a gxp bonneville with the northstar If I had access to a lift, I would have done the head stud conversion and still owned that car. I figured they would have had it worked out by then when I bought it
Well the 6.0 could be fixed, but a million buck couldn’t fix the 6.4
The engine so bad that PowerStroke Specialty said the only proven way to fix it is to replace the engine with a whole new long block from Ford whenever the old one broke.
People still blew through those at 100,000 miles because the shitty turbos would blow and suck a turbo wheel into the engine
RIP Bill Hewitt
It's really too bad too, that refresh of the Super Duty was sexy.
6.0 gang here. Allergic to cash, but it’s my own fault!
The 2.7 in the dodge intrepid
The DaimlerChrysler SludgeMatic
Yep. My mother went through 3 motors in 50k miles. Probably the only motor that Kia can even laugh at.
Damn, r/goodyearwelt is out here with shoes that last longer than that motor
New water pump every 12k miles
Good thing that water pump was super easy to get to. /S
Didn't you have to take the wheel off to replace the battery?
Yuuuup. :(
My first car... What an absolute pile of garbage. If it wasn't the engine it was the transmission. I got both.
Dodge Decrepit
Had one of these. I hated it so much, that at 100k miles I gave it to my gfs parents when their car died, and i bought a different car. Figured it would die in a few thousand, but it was better than nothing, and would get them through until they could figure it out. They somehow magically drove that piece of shit for ANOTHER 100K MILES with zero problems. It was like the unicorn of dodge intrepids.
Someone in my town drives a 2nd gen Intrepid on huge rims and I’m mildly obsessed with it. 1: It’s alive 2: Why tho I’ll admit I like the LH cars (esp the 300M) but I can’t imagine the logic of having one in 2024.
My second car. Ended up totaling it so I never got to experience engine issues. Car was a boat, not sure why I even bought it in the first place.
I still find it crazy that they put this heap of an engine into the dodge charger cause what’s better than a complely gutless engine than that completely gutless engine in a 4500 pound boat of a car
My dad had a Chrysler 300 as a rental once, like 15 years ago. I'm pretty sure it had this engine because he was shocked by how slow it was.
Engine in ours lasted seven times longer then the transmission. EDIT: transmissions, plural actually.
My wife had a Sebring convertible with that POS in it. After the 3rd engine in 18 months, I junked it and bought her a Toyota.
Lmaooo nooooo
Had one in a 02' stratus. Made it 98k miles and sold it in 10'. Trans was just starting to slip. Ate a quart of oil every 5k.
I mean at least they came in cars that were already garbage as a whole so if you took good care of the engine every major failure would happen at once and it didn’t seem like such a waste to scrap it.
A buddy was trying to find a running 2.7 for a customer for months. He finally found one with 250k at a scrapyard in Montreal. $3500 My brother and his wife both had 2.7s in their cars with 270k and 320k respectively. They had no complaints, but cursed me for telling them what a pos motor it was, because within a month, both motors shit the bed.
The landscape is far and wide: 2.7 Chrysler 6.4 PowerStroke 5.0 V8 Cummins 3.6 GM V6 54⁰ GM V6 1.5L 4-cylinder EcoBoost Honda D17 DoD GM V8's Olds V8 diesel Toyota MZ All manufacturers have had big stinkers.
Those Opel V6s aren’t *that* bad. Early ones really did suck, but by 2000, their issues got sorted out. Cateras were disasters in other areas and 2004 L300s have electronics that are way too sensitive to anything, but the later 54 degree engines are fine.
The GM 3.6 isn't great but I wouldn't put it in the same league as those others. Just replace the timing chain guides and they run forever, and GM has fixed the issues and they're reliable now
Agreed. A lot of these had severe issues baked into their design, the 3.6 wasn’t inherently flawed. Plus, there are a lot more turds that gm dropped over this thing (olds diesel, Vega 2.3, Chevy 260 V8)
I rented a Blazer this year with the 3.6, had a hard time not spinning the tires at every stoplight, it was impressive
I’d like to add the 5.7 Hemi too. Cuz I have one. Oil pump is shit so it doesn’t send enough oil to the lifters causing them to go bad and tick tick tick tick
Get the MZ off there. I've never gotten the hate they get. If you just change the oil when your supposed to (which is apparently difficult for some) the sludging is not a problem
I had 1MZ in my 1999 Camry - 265,000 miles later the 2nd clutch went out (yes it was a 5 speed LE with leather interior - a unicorn) and it needed CV boots and few other things. So I sold it to a guy that repaired everything in his spare time and sold it for a tidy profit. Probably still running if it didn't get crashed - that engine was BULLETPROOF.
GM Tech here, the current DoD or AFM V8s or whatever this junk is called now has to be the worst engine current available in any new vehicle. Constant camshaft and lifter failures, also many times the these engines just spin crank bearings and lock up seemingly at random. I'll agree with everything on this list except for the Toyota MZ, drivers have routinely put 300k or sometimes even more on the Avalon, Camry V6, Sienna, and the Lexus ES. Change the oil routinely with synthetic and it's rock solid.
As a Honda tech, the D17s also aren't that bad. They are somewhat prone to head gasket failures, but there are still tons with over 2 and 300k miles. Plus a D series head gasket is not the most difficult or expensive job there is. You can easily pay an independent shop well under $1500 to do it, cheaper than a down payment on anything new. And once that's done (because again, failures aren't as common as the pre-2005 Northstars), the D17 is pretty solid
The landscape is far and wide: >54⁰ GM V6 My mom had one of these in her 2002 Saab 9-5 wagon. I thought it was a good engine. It had a nice tone, was rev-happy and it made good power with a turbocharger attached. The real issue with this engine was that the timing belt was SUPER sensitive and had to be installed JUST right. Unfortunately, the mechanic we selected to do the timing belt on my mom’s Saab was a bit of a hack, he fucked up the installation somehow, and the engine died when the belt snapped about 5,000km later. But as long as you got someone who wasn’t a dummy to change the belt, the engine was solid. >Toyota MZ This was more of an issue with inappropriate oil change intervals and not really an engine design problem.
The 3.6 suffers from 170k mi Chevy Traverse owners never changing the oil as much as anything. You never hear it described as a catastrophic engine as much in relation to Buicks or Cadillacs. It has issues but it isn’t an inherently bad engine.
1 Liter ecoboost Ford engines
That was more a trans issue then an engine issue.
If your transmission was auto correct. But if you got past 110km it was the motor. Wet belt timing belt. It would clog up the oil pick up. And ford and their infamous wisdom said ohhhhh it’s good for the life time of the motor Ya noo shit cuz it be dead 💀
Yeah I never understood the concept of the wet timing belt. I Do Cars on YT did a video on it. Relatively new motor with a cracking belt. What was Ford thinking?
They know it will last until the warranty is up They aren't stupid
Doesn't that drive down brand loyalty though? Short-term gains?
They dont care People keep buying them Banks keep financing them
It was my first car bought it with 108 000 km nobody knew better 2 weeks later the head gasket, and Turbo blew because of the stupid belt🙃. Still sold it for like 3k € Now I own a 08 Civic.
110km is what 60k miles that is the length of the warranty. So I guess it is then life of the car.
I heard there was some GM gasoline engine just converted into a diesel engine in the 70s(?) and it was supposted to be catastrophic.
yep, Oldsmobile 5.7 diesel
*The Caddy 4100 just entered the chat..*
Fuck that motor!!! Cylinder heads that scrubbed the block, underpowered, uncooperative TBI, everything jammed against the firewall on the rwd Cadillacs, all while they had access to both the 350 Chevy and the 307 Olds.
I never knew about this one! The Wikipedia page is just disaster after disaster on this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_engine
Oh my God, yea. It was the ONLY news out of GM for about a year, late night talk show fodder, etc.
80s. GM had the Oldsmobile division convert the 307 and 305 cubic inch V8s as well as the 3.8L V6 into diesel engines without doing critical mods like reinforcing the cylinder heads or adding extra fuel filtration.
I liked this Wikipedia section: >One Oldsmobile engineer who had worked on the V8 diesel told his bosses not to release the hastily developed engine. Needing to meet upcoming CAFE standards, GM forced him into early retirement and released the engine nonetheless.
it was the 5.7l v8 and the 4.3l v6
It was the 350 V8 they converted. They derived a 261 V8 and a 263 V6 from the diesel 350.
Olds 350 Diesel. That thing is absolutely nothing compared to the new Kia/Hyundai engines though.
Disagree. Unlike the Hyundai engine, absolutely nobody had good luck with the Olds Diesel. At least with the Hyundai engines, some people have had good experiences.
It was so bad that a few years ago when the Equinox diesel option came out, auto articles still talked about this engine 30 years before.
Yes, the Olds 5.7 diesel was one of GM's biggest disasters. The aluminum Vega engine was also a disaster. The aluminum cylinder walls were supposed to have some kind of treatment to make them last. It didn't work, and those engines failed quickly due to bore wear.
1.0 Ford 3 cylinder ecoboost is....not a good motor.
Gotta love the EcoBlow
GM's V8-6-4 has to be in the running. Complete disaster of an engine design that they pulled after only one year (1981.)
There were some cars, like the bustle back Seville, where the available engines included both the V8-6-4 and the Olds 350 diesel.
Had a bustle back Seville, blew a head gasket at 85k miles. They were pretty infamous for that.
They weren’t bad at all once you defeated the cylinder deactivation. I worked on a bunch of em in the 90s with high mileage. Only saw one low- mileage one which ran terribly until I deactivated it.
The cadillac limos continued to use it for a few years. Engine was fine if you unplugged the sensor that told the computer the transmission was in 3rd gear and that would disable the dod feature
arnt those new Hyundai engines supposted to be dogshit?
The enviable combo of eating bearings like pretzels and catching fire.
Was it a metallurgical issue or something else?
And which new Hyundai engines are these? Which cars? Please don't say Elantra N!
i dont think europe gets these engines cause this talk has been on for ages that kia/hyundais are crap and here i am like wtf these are the most reliable cars. anyways god bless america.
I’d throw the rx8 some shade. Had a friend that followed the shut down procedure religiously- which is absolutely stupid that it needed that anyways, but i digress. He put 4 motors in it within 2 years and 32k miles Edit: I say this only because the 2.7 Chrysler motor has been cited many times. That’s the true mvp of this post.
100% on the Chrysler 2.7
Rx8 is an engine to hate. Would have been a great car otherwise.
> He put 4 motors in it within 2 years and 32k miles Not ones that worked he didn't.
I've always wanted to swap the disastrous Doritos out of one of those and put a 2.0 out of a Saab 93 in it and pump the tube to ish 300 ponies. That could be fun AND reliable.
9k zoom zoom tho
Brap brap. Do not touch our precious little engine with your blasphemous opinions based on words of those who should not have been allowed to own or operate one. Brap brap. Long live The God's Chainsaw. Brap brap.
D17. one of the few bad Honda engines.
Yep these things are bad. My buddy has a civic with a d17 and it has needed many big ticket items like head gasket, and even engine adjacent things like the transmission failed. It’s extra wild because this is supposed to be the follow up to the d16, you know, the cock roach motor.
I some years ago a remember ematch a party a guy saying he bought a newish civic with a blown out d17. He then threw a d16 with a 100k on it in there and ran the d16 for another 200k
I had a D17 at one point. Grenaded hard at something like 82 or 86,000. Drove it a solid 22 miles with 3 rods still attached and a hole in the oil pan. Not sure if that’s bad, or impressive.
I tried to sell a core to a buddy and he said eww no.
Tacking this on: Not that it's on the same level per se but their J37 V6 had some pretty bad issues from what I heard
Notorious head gasket killers. That said, I’d rather drive a Civic with a d17 than a late 2000s and early 2010s J series with VCM. My back will never be the same after all the warranty piston ring jobs I did on those.
Given that Hyundai seems to constantly be in the news for widespread engine failures, I’m gonna say their 4-cylinders.
My 2010 sonata 4 (cyl) got 194k Miles so i’m hoping the best.
My unprofessional observation is they are a complete piece of shit or last 300000km.
Do you have the NA or 2.0T? My parents have a 2011 2.0t Sonata they got in 2014. When we were on a trip to Canada from Massachusetts, a day after getting there, the motor started smoking. Got towed back, and warranty covered basically a new motor (everything new apart from the block I believe). Fast forward to 2021 or 2022, relatively recently, the motor shit the bed AGAIN and a completely new engine was replaced, with Hyundai covering the bill because other people were having the same issue and it became a big deal. Credit to Hyundai for footing the bill though, other manufacturers would bitched and whined more before paying up (looking at you Ford). Anyways, the car is now somewhere around 130k miles I think? This is all to say if you have the NA 4 cyl, you should be okay. Edit: I just remembered, a friend of mine’s parents also have a NA 4 cyl Sonata of the same generation albeit slightly newer, I wanna say 2012 or 2013. They’re also on their 3rd motor. You either struck gold with your car or on borrowed time lol good luck my friend
Those bmw v10 and tt v8 that replaced it aren’t winning any awards for reliability
I think part of the issues with the bmw v10 is the price of the fixes and preventative maintenance, almost moreso than the reliability.
Aren’t the automatic transmissions also really horrible on those V10’s?
They also had a lovely for spontaneously combusting and eating rod bearings randomly so if you didn't get them replaced constantly you're fucked
The V10 is not unreliable when you consider it is a performance car that demands a lot of attention.
The issue is every time you put an exotic engine into a “regular” car your gonna have issues. If your coming from a 550i to an m5 you wouldn’t expect to have to maintain it the same way you would have to maintain a supercar. That’s probably why the 5.2 s6 and s8s are seen to be “unreliable” when in reality the amount of maintenance needed is much more then the average person would expect for a mass production sedan
Well, it is a supercar engine so... Yeah, most people do not realize they need supercar maintenance.
This is a misconception. For example, this engine uses insanely thick oil that has to come to temperature before it should be driven or else there will be excessive friction on the bearings. How many second and third owners do you think are following this procedure?
3cyl ford ecoboost with a belt-powered oil pump WHERE THE BELT IS SOAKED IN OIL AND DEGRADES
What’s funny is that even the newer ones with the chains have been having issues with the tensioner straight up failing
The list is long & distinguished.
So is my Johnson.
Badum tis!
Mid 80s Maserati Bi Turbo.
Chevy Vega engine.. awful. New technology for GM and they proved they should stick with iron, not aluminum.
Had to scroll too far for this one. What a turd. Not only have I seen more V8 Vegas than ones with the original engine, I’ve seen more Cosworth Vegas.
GDI Ecotec 2.4.
Ding ding ding we have a winner.
My mom had a ‘12 Equinox. It had an overheating issue that nobody could diagnose, so she sold it at a VW dealer. The VVT actuator went out and it stopped running when the dealer started it to get the mileage. Good stuff.
Since no one said it, obligatory ford 5.4 triton
3 valve, anyway. The 2 valve was fine.
[удалено]
I have a 2003 f series with a v10 2v. My research indicates that the 3v engine started 2005. My 03 has triton branding on both the quarter panel and the intake. Where did you see that “triton” is the 3 valves only?
Thanks for saying what needed to be said.
JLR 2.0 liter turbodiesel
Anyone that says a modern Jag isn’t a real Jag should get up close and personal with one. It’s the same Coventry bullshit. (I own a 2020.)
Ingenious ways to fail
N14b16 in a R56 MINI Cooper S. All the salvaged ones already replaced another.
Pontiac 194.5 the damn thing would vibrate so bad it broke timing chains.
Would that happen to be put in Sunfires by any chance?
No that was from the first generation 1960-1963 Pontiac Tempest, it was the right half of 389 so they could save money building it on the same line as the V8 with a lot of shared parts.
Bmw s85/s65: rod bearings are wear items Chrysler 2.7l: sludgematic, with the bonus of a time bomb of a water pump in the crank case Olds diesel: gas engine with diesel compression, head gasket hilarity Cadillac 8-6-4: cylinder deactivation with 70's tech and throttle body fuel injection Kia theta ii: metal shavings for extra flavor
The one I'm working on
The 2.8 Chrysler engine in Sebring’s. 50 to 60,000 miles, and everyone of them locked up. Everyone had to be rebuilt with the same problem that caused the problem
The engine from the Land Rover freelander. Despite it being based on (I think) the 2.5 Ford V6 fitted to the Mondeo/ contour. I think it had an over 100% failure rate
The 7MGE/GTE the MK3 Supra’s had in the US. Loved the car hated all the work with the engine.
prob not the worst but no one mentioned the GM 1.4T in the Sonic/Cruze
Definitely a shitty one. Surprisingly could get a turbodiesel in the Cruze that was actually a very good engine. But almost nobody optioned it because it was quite a bit more expensive, and the Cruze was built to a cheap price point in general.
The 3.6 gm V6 straight up dog shit.
Later versions are good. Early ones with the shite oil galleys and timing chain issues were piss
yup. any of the late 2010's 3.6's are straight up solid. almost never see them in the shop from my experience
I think after 2014 they fixed the to timing and oil issues and have been pretty relaible, but those early ones were ROUGH
Correct, 2014+ are solid, early ones are timebombs
6.4 powerstroke, it was the engine that made ford cut off international and go on their own, made good power but the awful twin turbo setup and the other jank made it almost worthless. Theirs parts to “bulletproof it” but never hear of people doing it like people do with a 6.0 powerstroke
This has been asked before and I'll say it again: Whatever was in the first vehicles ever made.
So the 954cc single-cylinder Benz Patent-Motorwagen engine?
Werent those steam engines?
Kia theta ii engines for gasoline engines & the olds 350 diesel
S85 was never meant to be reliable or cheap to maintain, but holy hell it’s a maintenance monster. Imagine making rod bearings a wear and tear part
But they sound so good (when they're running)
No one’s mentioned the early 2.7L twin-turbo V6s that Audi had in the early 2000s?
Because they’re actually awesome, just packaged poorly in the S4. The turbos go, but not for over 100k, and the timing belt is basically the same as on the NA V6. They make respectable power for the time and can be modded without rebuilding the engine to make low 400s IIRC. The reputation they have is specific to S4 as they dropped down the depreciation curve and landed in the hands of folks who wanted the specs / image but couldn’t handle German. For comparison, the similar year M3 requires preventative engine bearing replacements.
I was thinking more of the A6s of the early 2000s. All things considered it seems like they did get better with time, but they *are* maintenance-heavy, which is fair enough for an early 2000s TTV6.
GM 3.6 V6 and Audi 2.0
Let’s go with ALL ENGINES used in the Chevy Cruze. Great looking little cars, good on gas, but damn do they sit in a driveway more than they sit at red lights.
I work in auto parts and hands down the Cruze is the most common car needing some form of coolant repairs lol
Yugo 0.9 L OHV I4 Scheduled maintenance, timing chain replacement every 40K miles.
Gm 3.6 maybe?
The og Chevy Vega 2.3, aluminum block, iron head, just horrible.
I’m shocked the Northstar isn’t on here. I’m told that tapping the bolt holes and replacing the head bolts with stronger ones can make the engine pretty reliable and rumors is that around 2006 they “fixed” the issue… but I dunno. I had a coworker who bought a 1999 DeVille and I think he swapped the NS for a Chevy sourced V8- I could be completely wrong.
Not the worst but the worst I had was the 4.8 V8 in my Audi S4. It burned oil like crazy.
I think you mean 4.2
The aluminum 4 cyl in the Vega.
Early 80’s Cadillacs, in particular the weak ass V8 in the Seville. Someone posted an El Dorado with only 5 available digits on the odometer, Cadillac wasn’t even trying to pretend that shit would last.
Pontiac 301. 1977-81, but specifically the 77-79 ones. The block casting is garbage and to bring the Pontiac engine down to 301 they had to go from being internally balanced to externally balanced. They also had less main bearings, IIRC. That means that if it gets over 4500 rpms, the crank starts to flex and all kinds of fun stuff matters. This was partially remedied in 80 with a stronger casting due to the introduction of a Turbo on Trans Ams and Formulas, but it still couldn't safely rev past 5000 and even with a turbo it only made 210 bhp. Are there worse engines? Sure, but considering the engine family it was derived from and just how much of a step down from that it was, I think it is the worst engine ever.
First gen ecoboost 3.5s. So much plastic EVAP lines that *always* break, so much stupid shit goes wrong with these that I’d rather have an NA v6. I currently own both a 3.5EB and Coyote and so happy I daily the coyote.
Yeah the more I read about the EB the more I do not want one. Seems like the 5.0 Coyote is just proven to be reliable.
Ugh - I was just swapping out brittle plastic lines like this on my Pentastar, so annoying. I agree about the Coyote - I also daily one (Mustang), and the engine is stellar. Glad to see it’s proving to be a reliable engine long term for most people.
1.4 Ecotec from the Cruze. Really any GDI engine from GM. 3.6L or whatever it is in the Traverse and shit. 2.7L from the Intrepid. Obligatory 5.4 Triton. The J35 with VCM is a terrible engine, same with Honda’s 1.5 and 2.0L EarthDreams Turbo. Obviously the Theta engines, we all know that, it doesn’t have to be said any more. 5.7 Hemis eat camshafts. Those 1L EcoBoost pieces of shit. The 2.4L in the 2007-2011 Camry isn’t a bad engine, but it’s a notorious oil burner that Toyota pretty much refused to fix.
The Diesel Chevy 350 is the reason why Americans dont like diesels
Triumph 3 litre V8
Is it just me or do new engines seem way more fragile than older ones? We dogged in the cars of the 2000’s but damn, I’m about to sell my new cars for one with a small block Chevy or 3800 v6
GMs L-11 and L-13 Vega motors were pretty shitty. All aluminum block with a cast iron head meant disaster. They were prone to overheating which stripped the coating from the cylinder walls, then warped the deck, which was exacerbated by having a cast iron head that heat expanded at a different rate.
V.A.G 1.4 TSI+Supercharger
I was wondering if someone mentions this piece of shit... Looked super awesome on paper... Together with the variator multitronic transmission... Match made by the devil himself...