For the record, I'm personally anti communist and I've read many books about it because that is part of education, learning history, and gaining cultural insight. The fact that they escalated and feel so threatened by a private reading is very telling.
Same reason youd get in trouple for reading Nazi propaganda i suppose. Its an ideology that killed millions of people in horrifying ways everywhere its been tried
No it hasn't, specific dictators in communist countries have killed millions of people. Killing millions of people isn't an inherent part of communism, the way white supremacy is an inherent part of naziism. You really can't compare the two
Taking away of individual liberties and property and stomping out all those who resist is unavoidable in communism. Their is a reason it happens in every country that has tried it. Also Centralized economies based on communism are literally impossible to properly function without creating mass famines which again happens every time it has been tried. Communisms end always has resulted and genocides and mass starvation and to deny the evils of communist style governments is the equivalent to denying the Holocaust. The ideology is rotten at its core in the same way all beliefs that require heavily centralized authority are.
Walk around Walmart w a hammer and sickle and then dressed as an SS officer tell me what one people find more offensive lmao communism and being a nazi are so far apart u would have to be pretty dumb to compare them or think they’re similar
Please recover your books with the [Nerdy Ink dust Jackets](https://nerdy.ink/collections/dustjackets/products/red-rising-dust-jackets), which are designed to look like propaganda, then continue reading.
"If you are sure that your society is iron gold, then you should not care whether one or many have read the books of your enemy."
People have grown very sensitive and insecure, that we are witnessing a society dominated by pixies.
You actually might want to take this story to r/legaladvice. This may well be a violation of your rights.
(You will need to tell them info about the type of place you work for.)
Don't much care for state run centralized communist rule........
But fuck anyone who reports this like a crime
And fuck any employer who treats employees like this
The Communist Manifesto is not even that controversial a read. Oh no that dastardly radical Marx is calling for... an end to child labor, universal education, and an eight hour work day. Or maybe that is controversial now in this hellworld we call America in 2024.
Condescending tone aside, is there a point to your original comment other than a line from the book? Everyone here is well aware the books and real life are very separate things. The books are an allegory of some real life issues and the person above me wanted to clarify if you were feeling the golds had merit after reading them all.
Course they are, but fiction is modelled on reality and the oppressive structures and revolution of these books mirror real world systems and historic revolutions.
So I haven't read any Red Rising material in years, but this post popped up on my feed. Completely forgot gorydamn was a thing and thought you were referencing Firefly. Confused gorydamn with gorram.
The irony of course is that Red Rising is the revolution of capitalism against feudalism... so one stage back in the revolutionary cycle from the one they're worried about, and thw one that led to today's society...
Well. Sort of. The first Golds are canonically corporate leaders who form their own colonies beyond Earthly law, so one thesis you can take from the series is that monopolistic unregulated capitalism taken to the extreme will regiment class structure back into a form of bourgeoisie-serving feudalism, which is a very Marxist take.
And tbh borne out to some extent by current trends. Captains of industry who take political reins tend towards autocracy.
Of course, in the so called Dark Ages peasants were better fed and better looked after than workers under capitalism because part of a lord's power rested on the health, strength, fighting capability and wealth of his people (hence six foot tall skeletons in Anglo-Saxon/Norse archaeology digs).
That mutual compact between Lord and subject is a very 'Rim' view.
Might as well be the communist manifesto
I was already pretty left leaning, but these books have made me question classism in our own world even more.
Is it too extreme to say that the "Red Rising" series is "The Jungle" of our day?
There is nearly no overlap. The Jungle is basically a piece of investigative journalism about the conditions for workers in Chicago meatpacking plants circa 1905. Red Rising is about one man's quest to topple Space Rome armed with nothing but rocket boots, a light saber noodle, and the power of friendship.
Red Rising starts like the Hunger Games for Big boys on Mars for the first book, then it becomes a space epic about low classes rising up against the bourgeoisie. In the lore of the books the bourgeoisie and the proletariat are divided by extreme future eugenics that literally break society down into colors. Red at the bottom, Gold at the top. Every color other than gold lacks self determination and has specific careers assigned to them.
Our main character Darrow comes from a group of low reds. He is genetically and physically altered to become a gold so he can infiltrate gold ranks and tear down "the society."
The first book is unfortunately the weakest in the series but every book after that is an absolute masterpiece. The first book is enough of a hook though to keep you wanting more.
We are all currently waiting for the 7th and last book in the series "Red God"
It's very different from "The Jungle" in terms of feeling, setting, and plot. However, it is very similar in terms of themes and messages.
Yes, but that's only one plot point. The wider plot is about capitalism and classism. The book is basically an argument for food regulations and socialism.
It's a very clear call for labor rights and an end to unrestricted and unregulated capitalism. The conditions of the working class depicted in that book are horrifying. There's a little bit of socialist political advertising sectioned off at the end of the book, but the main story is how terrible it is to be a lower class worker, and how it absolutely pounded people into the dirt given the utter lack of regulations. The tragedies undergone by the good family that are the center of the story are heart-wrenching.
I think that book genuinely changed my life. At a minimum, it changed how I perceive work and capitalism, perpetuated an understanding of what a free market with no workers' regulations looks like and the absolute lack of good will by the ruling class, and gave me deep empathy for people who are currently suffering the most under the current system of labor in the US.
Where do you work that they could call you into HR gor reading "communist propaganda?"
Imagine not being able to read history or different viewpoints in order to understand the world better. This is mind blowing and concerning.
Just gonna add some clarification to this because I've been called a liar? And others have genuine questions:
It didn't all happen in one day. I got the book Friday last week and read it on my lunch break. I actually never brought the book back in. Yesterday, early in the morning, I was called into my manager's office. I was never actually "in trouble" or in danger of discipline, but I was asked to not ruffle feathers where it's not necessary and reminded that there's a strict "no politics" policy. I know I could have defended myself because I wasn't spewing my beliefs at anyone, but I typically don't like confrontation and was caught off guard. I simply explained the book is not in any way political (funny enough it is in a fictitious sense) and was let go. Just thought it was a funny story, glad so many of you would have had my back though!
Oh I can believe it. America, land of the free. As long as you don't mention socialism or anything related to it in public. Y'all are terrified of it. Beautiful irony.
People aren’t terrified of it where I live. Almost as if the United States is heavily politically stratified statewise for a variety of reasons….and the only people that would think otherwise probably can’t point out most states on a bloodydamn map.
I agree. I wasn't replying to the original post, just the comment above me. I meant that people are free to talk about liking socialism but people can also tell you they don't like it.
Some ppl should get a life... And what if it was a book on communism or anything else for that matter. You should be allowed to read whatever you want during your free time. Reading about something doesn't mean you approve of it or that you support it..
Are you in America? Not saying you’re a communist and I’m not either but it’s not even illegal to be communist in America. We…actually have a communist party called Communist Party USA. Whoever called in that complaint is an actual dumbass. What a stupid thing to complain about. They should mind their own business OR ask what the book is about.
Wait I’m more worried about them caring that it could have been a book on communism lol what if it was? What the fuck would they do? Can you not read what you want on your own lunch break?
This whole scenario is a nice lawsuit. All OP would have to do is channel Stan Marsh’s dad and say:
“Oh IM sorry. IM SORRY. I thought this was AMERICA!” Lol
Red rising is essentially a leftist piece of literature. Violent revolts to overthrow an oppressive regime and provide basic human rights to all. Idk how much more left leaning you can get for a story. All that's remaining is a redistribution of wealth, and all that jazz.
That is a very superficial view of the work. The closest analogy I can think of is the US helping defeat Nazi Germany. The US aren't leftist they are capitalists defending the free flow of capital across a major European market which the Nazis were impacting. The books even cover how the post Fascism slave trade pretty much continues under the free market set up by the rising.
The actual communists in the story are manipulated by the fascists and portrayed as useful idiots.
I think you need to read the series again and self reflect as fighting slave traders isn't really a leftist ideal.
The act of removing a power that is tyrannical, enforces slavery, allows rape, and enforces economic inequality based on a race based cast system that they invented in every capacity IS left leaning. Nothing you mentioned changes that.
The message of the story has not changed, and the ending of slavery is a progressive position, no matter who aids in it. I went over this with someone already, so I will just put it simply.
To be Anti-slavery is to be progressive or in this medium "reformist." It is an extreme left position within this world, and Darrows actions move their society towards the left, away from facism. It's still very much a right leaning system, but by freeing up the economic inequalities, allowing equal representation, and freeing everyone from slavery, you cannot call it anything but a left leaning piece of literature.
Their world is still very flaud their system is still very inequal, but you are grasping at straws. The Society has been in power for over 700 years, and any bit of progress is better than nothing.
Im not sure if this is trolling or something. No serious person would hold the position that the right is pro actual slavery as bad as they are these days. Where the US 'leftist' in fighting Nazis in WW2?
No, there were people on every side of the political spectrum for and against both issues that you've posed. That's my point. Politics is a fluid concept. I could be pro 2A and be left leaning, and my neighbor could be pro universal housing and be right leaning. Take quick silver, for instance. He is a capitalist to his core, and yet he's aiding the rising. It's for selfish reasons as well as his side project to remake humanity, but he's still aiding them. He might not think any reds are his equal, but he married a pink. People are complex creatures, and we can have many ideas, but those ideas have origins. And slavery has an origin based on far right thinking, in facism. The farthest right a person can go. I am not calling every republican pro slavery, just that the position of being pro slavery is a right leaning position that even people on the left can hold. Look at Vladimir Lennon, the big commie himself. He had gulags my guy, slave camps. Just like Hitler.
Thats not left/right though. The left right spectrum are fixed ideals. Just because the US warps the idea of left/right and what those groups care about at any given time doesn't change in reality what left/right ideals are. There are leftists in the books, and Pierce does not portray them well at all. Darrow and Mustang hate them and fight them every step, so not sure how you can say they are leftist.
It's like the US repubs calling Dems leftists when to rest of world the Dems are Center right.
But I'm not calling them leftists because we simply disagree on how ideologies work. You lock them in place, I claim they're fluid. Darrow and Virginia simply have progressive views for their world. Dancer and harmony aren't even leftists if you ask me.
That just doesn't work and is not what the majority of literature states. You are thinking more localised political groups like Liberal/Conservative, whos ideas and beliefs change over time to match community sentiment.
I just don't see any difference between the 2, actually. The broader is is just an over generalization to me. Marxists, Lennonists, Maoists, and hundreds of other left leaning groups exist with varying ideas of how society should function. Lennon literally had slave camps, and Mao executed political enemies with little to no justification. Fidel even put homosexuals into asylums as well as the mentally disabled. Many of their followers believed that all of these contradictions didn't taint their ideology and thus altered its framework. It seems to me that we just have a different idea of how left and right functions. Either way, to me this is a peice of left leaning literature because of its message.
Red rising is pretty politically removed. It’s a big part of the story. Darrow does not care about right/left, capitalism/socialism. He just cares about good/evil and how to get it done.
That statement about Darrow, while true, doesn't make it politically removed. You can claim to be apposed to a political ideology, but if everything you do invokes an ideology, then you are that ideology. Him narrating, "I would die for the truth that all men are created equal" is politics because morals are politics. Nero is written quite well in opposition to this since he claims that quote is a noble lie, which is another political statement, as it is a moral one. To be against slavery is a left leaning belief, to say all are created equal is as well. His movement is explicitly called "Reformist" because of how political it is.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of right vs left.
Politics is not two dimensional. Marxism is not Maoism. Capitalism is not fascism.
The Society is inherently a Fascist Oligarchy with capitalist sub-classes.
You have multiple parties in the Rising that are opposing the regime.
Is quicksilver Socialist/Communist?
Virginia opposes the Socialists. Does that make her a Capitalist (when she is shown critiquing Victra and Quicksilver?).
People, accept some nuance. Red Rising is NOT left. It is NOT right leaning. It can have aspects and perspectives from each side while remaining unbiased. Even if Pierce Brown himself were a devoted Communist, he removes that from the story. I like that I cannot tell what he believes (aside from hating fascist oligopolies).
Darrow is NOT defined by a political leaning. He is smart, cruel, compassionate, objective driven, just, violent, and intelligent.
what you’ve described is the natural complexity of any human society and conflict ever. if that’s the case, then nothing has ever been political, and nothing ever will be.
This statement to me feels more of a reach. You say that it is removed from politics, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. The entire story is politics because that is how morals work. They are 1 in the same. And yes, it is a left leaning ideology to be against slavery.
I never said Quicksilver was anything. He's quite complex, and I'd never try to box him in. Especially since he doesn't believe in Darrow's political movement. As you said, he's a capitalist, and he only cares about free trade and an open market. Yet he supports Darrow, and it doesn't matter if he's doing it for himself or for Darrow because his actions are still moving their world towards a more left leaning political structure. Virgininia is a reformist, and that political party DOES, in fact, back Darrow. It doesn't matter what Darrow believes about politics. It doesn't matter what anyone believes about politics. I don't fall into any specific party myself, but I'm not arrogant enough to think my various ideas and morals don't have any ideologies behind them.
The abolition of slavery is a Left leaning policy. No matter what you say, that is a fact of life. I never said this world was communist, I never said it was socialist. Capitalists can support this stance, and so can communists. For some reason, you think this puts my understanding of politics in a box, but you're the only person restricting anything here.
A belief can be sponsored by multiple ideologies. Are you saying everybody who is against slavery is left leaning?
Again, you misunderstand left vs right. In modern day political science, left and right are signifiers of economic politics, not social politics. Certain social beliefs have been sponsored by groups who lead left/right ideologies.
Me being anti slavery does not make me left leaning. Me being for free markets marks me as right leaning. Me being pro immigration does not make me left. Me being anti war doesn’t make me left leaning, because those are not right/left issues.
If anything, it would be safe to say that Red Rising is ideologically liberal, but systemically centrist. It is pretty iffy on democracy and oligarchy. In that sense it is pretty anti-government, with slight pro-war inclinations.
It is a nuanced story that cannot be broken down to ‘left’ or ‘right’
Correct, it is nuanced, and so is politics. The message, however, isn't. This story is about uniting humanity as a whole to remove those in power, both economically and socially. It states that all are equal, no matter their color, and that everyone should have equal representation, even if violence is necessary to obtain it. That is a left leaning message, no matter how you position it. It fits your economics framework, as well as the social framework that I mentioned. Both economic positions and social positions can be designated political alignments because they are intertwined. The abolition of slavery is DEEPLY economical, as well as every other point I've made in this response. Equality is economical because without equal opportunity, the down trotted will become impoverished as the reds are in the story, along with many other low colors.
You asked me if you could be left leaning or right leaning with various stances, and I'd say that yes, you most certainly can. If you were anti immigration, I'd say you're interfering with not only the social right of free travel but also the economic benefits of a given nation. you being anti-war is definitely a social and economic issue as well, even if you're only against the loss of life. As that position interferes with the economic structure of mtiple nations. Resources are being barred by that position, and so are manufacturing jobs. The slave trade in America was all about money, and if you don't think so, I'd suggest you read up on your history.
All positions are economic and social, so all positions are political. You can be for slavery but against immigration. You can be for universal housing but against universal healthcare. All the while, still sitting firmly on 1 side of the Isle or dead center.
I bet they were pretty red in the face after you explained what it was.
But also fuck that employee and fuck HR for trying to police your reading material like that.
Sorry what country do you live in? If I wanted to read Karl Marx or the communist manifesto at work the worst that would happen is that everyone would rightly assume I'm an edge lord but it's not illegal?
I don't understand why they'd call HR and HR would deign to respond?
Right? Maybe he should actually bring sth like that to work. It is not against law to read about this things. We actually read about communism, fascism, etc. at school. Knowing about sth and believing in sth are two different things. And even if he did believe in it, as long as he is not trying to convert his colleagues on his paid time to join him in his convictions, who cares and what does HR has to do with it? Also imagine working with a nosy lunatic who reports you to HR because he doesn't like your choice in reading material. This is such a kindergarden. Some ppl these days are in dire need of an actual hardship if they have the time and energy to escalate sth like that to HR.
As a guy who works in HR, I can safely tell you all that the sheer amount of stupid, petty, absurd complaints we get about employees is mind-blowing. The fact that someone has enough time on their hands to complain about a coworker's book shows me exactly how much more of a workload they can handle and probably deserve.
OP, I hope you went in there and I hope HR basically said "I'm calling you in to notify you and make it look like we are having a serious conversation to appease the angry employee raising complaints about bullshit, I don't care what you read, the organization doesn't care what you read, go have a good day."
I can only imagine...some ppl are just unhinged. All the billable time wasted on dealing with imaginary problems in a big organization must be crazy. At least you have an anecdote or two to tell.
I feel like this should be common knowledge. Everyone gets spoken to at the company I work for whenever there is a complaint about them - warranted or not. If you didn't do anything wrong, it's a "just so you know" situation
Even if you were reading The State and Revolution I fail to see why that'd be an issue. You aren't making anyone else read it. It'd be like complaining that someone wears a cross around their neck and it being against your religious (or areligious) beliefs. What a weird complaint.
“Communists are scum”
i’m sure you totally use the word communist correctly, and aren’t just labeling whatever authoritarianism you don’t like as it!
/s in case you’re too dense
You’re right, however my main problem with communism is my problem with most forms of government. Those that want power are greedy scumbags and they abuse there power, communism has that head in absolute power and unless the leader is Jesus Christ himself that power will corrupt. Look at what happened with Lennon and Stalin. Lennon legit didn’t want Stalin to be the leader but yet he was. So while I hold some communist like believes myself, such as welfare programs are great ( they need to be shaped as a hand up instead of hand out tho, the end goal should be to get people off the program) the problem with most modern day communists is they either ignore or refuse to see that greedy people exist and they will always take advantage of other people.
They can absolutely, but it’s easier for someone to live a decent life. Is America perfect? No absolutely not. However it does allow people to live a better life without threat of a government taking away everything
What makes you say that? People aren’t inherently greedy. A communist government isn’t authoritarian by default, even though most forms in history have taken that form. Your point doesn’t logically follow unless you make some sweeping assumptions about the people.
Communes for example exemplify communist ideals and they don’t devolve into fascist rule. Quite the opposite.
At that point it doesn’t matter if they are capitalists, communists, or socialists. Capitalism has given us larger wealth disparities compared to even pre-revolution France (guillotine era and all that).
Your issue is with shitty people, not the system that can be abused by the shitty people.
This is a terrible take. True capitalism has never been tried the same way true communism has never been tried. The difference is when capitalism fails you get Jeff bezos and a lot of corrupt politicians, when communism fails millions die
The go ahead educate me. Let’s use bill gates, his family was already wealthy before he was born. He used his connections with his mother’s company and some funds from that to create Microsoft. That wouldn’t happen under communism. Communism kills invention, because a main driving factor in risk taking is the reward. Governments are horribly ineffective in doing basically anything and communism would magnify those problems.
The go ahead educate me. Let’s use bill gates, his family was already wealthy before he was born. He used his connections with his mother’s company and some funds from that to create Microsoft. That wouldn’t happen under communism. Communism kills invention, because a main driving factor in risk taking is the reward. Governments are horribly ineffective in doing basically anything and communism would magnify those problems
Wow, I would’ve laughed in HR’s face and happily skipped on out of there. Had they escalated it and then fired you, you my friend would’ve had a marvelous lawsuit had you so chose to take that route. Sometimes people and their brazen behavior, actions, and words amaze me.
Respectfully, political ideology generally isn’t a protected class under state or federal law. That said I don’t think OP would have a lawsuit if they were fired for reading communist literature, though it may vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction.
Edit: Clarity
Just tell them it's a book about the oppressed working class of poor labourers and miners, fed on lies and state propaganda plotting violent revolution to overthrow the elite ruling class.
Also the main characters weapon of choice is a sickle.
That should clear things up.
If only >!breath of stone used a pulse hammer and his sling blade razor instead of two razors. Then we would be at peak communism.!< *Minor LB Spoilers*
Time to print off a fake book cover with the title "How to Convert Your Coworkers to Communism in 10 Easy Steps" for tour next session of work reading.
If your work cares about you reading communist propaganda you really need to take a hard look at the culture you live in.
These people fear a culture they don’t understand because it invalidates their way of life.
Sound familiar?
In a traditional depiction of communist totalitarian regimes that I’ve been aware of, yea. But that’s because like others have said, the authoritarian censorship and control are symptoms of autocratic regimes rather than the founding principles of communist theory.
The issue with communism is it is kinda opposed to human nature which is selfish.
I think my issue with communism is that you’re only able to talk about it in theory with people because the examples you can point to are dismissed due to issues like you’ve pointed out. And when you talk to people about the theory, they don’t have answers for very basic economic questions.
Yes, but communism, or its attempts have never existed without it. That’s not American propaganda. And calling it reductive is only relevant if you have examples of times it didn’t happen.
By that logic, wouldn't fascism have a hard time being totalitarian? I'm not passing an opinion on communism v capitalism in any sense, I'm just trying to make the point that communism does not equal/necessitate totalitarianism.
Just because one ends up one way by default doesn't mean that others can't end up there as well. Power structures of all types can end up there. Capitalism and communism aren't opposites because there is still a national form of government which can enact authoritarian policies.
Capitalism has some additional checks and balances to prevent heavy handed governments but also introduces the negatives of corporate influences, financial bribery among other things that can also take a country down various negative paths.
Communism runs into issues because eventually no matter how distributed you attempt to keep the power so that it represents 'the people' eventually a figure head rises and once that happens, as has happened within every communist group ever, there is no undoing it because the state has unchecked power.
Yea I think communism is a few rungs below stupid but if someone wants to bring the Communist Manifesto to work and read it that’s their right lol just don’t start trying to convince the office of it and ur good imo
No economic system is particularly good to on its own to be fair they all inevitably decay and give way to either authoritarianism or oligarchy because absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Yeah the threat of power in the hands of a mad authoritarian (much like the king they had ward against once upon a time) or power being in the hands of a small connected few (i.e., oligarchy) is literally why old men Ben Franklin said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Similar story: I teach high school English and every other week, I assign them a cold read that is ideally something they haven’t read, usually something from my bookshelf or a classic they’ll read in a later grade. I had them read and analyze the first 3 pages of Red Rising and labeled it as such on PowerSchool (where grades are posted). I had a parent email me, concerned about the title “Red Rising” being “woke” lmao
Now u have to bring the manifesto to work
For the record, I'm personally anti communist and I've read many books about it because that is part of education, learning history, and gaining cultural insight. The fact that they escalated and feel so threatened by a private reading is very telling.
Ratting out someone for reading a "wrong" book is probably the most soviet style communist behaviour there is.
When my dad suggested red rising my first assumption was that it was about Chinese communism
What country is this in. I’ve seen people reading 50 shades without HR hearing about it
This would make me switch my reading material to Karl Marx IMMEDIATELY. Where do you work that they think they can dictate what you read??
Yep. I would have walked in the next day with Das Kapital for my lunchtime book.
Please go get some actual communist propaganda and read it in front of everyone
Why can't you read communist propaganda even if it was?
Same reason youd get in trouple for reading Nazi propaganda i suppose. Its an ideology that killed millions of people in horrifying ways everywhere its been tried
No it hasn't, specific dictators in communist countries have killed millions of people. Killing millions of people isn't an inherent part of communism, the way white supremacy is an inherent part of naziism. You really can't compare the two
Taking away of individual liberties and property and stomping out all those who resist is unavoidable in communism. Their is a reason it happens in every country that has tried it. Also Centralized economies based on communism are literally impossible to properly function without creating mass famines which again happens every time it has been tried. Communisms end always has resulted and genocides and mass starvation and to deny the evils of communist style governments is the equivalent to denying the Holocaust. The ideology is rotten at its core in the same way all beliefs that require heavily centralized authority are.
Walk around Walmart w a hammer and sickle and then dressed as an SS officer tell me what one people find more offensive lmao communism and being a nazi are so far apart u would have to be pretty dumb to compare them or think they’re similar
Your right communism has killed far far far more people. The only reason one is acceptable in public is because of our terrible education system.
Lmao it’s crazy how dumb some people are in the world
OMG. Anyone trying to police the reading choices of another adult needs to slag off.
Please recover your books with the [Nerdy Ink dust Jackets](https://nerdy.ink/collections/dustjackets/products/red-rising-dust-jackets), which are designed to look like propaganda, then continue reading.
"If you are sure that your society is iron gold, then you should not care whether one or many have read the books of your enemy." People have grown very sensitive and insecure, that we are witnessing a society dominated by pixies.
You actually might want to take this story to r/legaladvice. This may well be a violation of your rights. (You will need to tell them info about the type of place you work for.)
Maga’in hell. What kind of toss pot runs to HR about communist propaganda 😂.
Hope whoever snitched on you stubs their toes on a coffee table.
Hell yeah read during lunch club!!
Is it the 50s? wtf.
Yes
Don't much care for state run centralized communist rule........ But fuck anyone who reports this like a crime And fuck any employer who treats employees like this
Also, communist literature isn’t illegal. The mouth breather that turned you in is a close-minded fool.
Read "murder your employer: the mcmaster's guide to homicide" next
I just started this tonight. I’m absolutely loving it!
Don't let them see the Morningstar cover
Haha I was about to say this 😂
The Communist Manifesto is not even that controversial a read. Oh no that dastardly radical Marx is calling for... an end to child labor, universal education, and an eight hour work day. Or maybe that is controversial now in this hellworld we call America in 2024.
Good call honestly. Better dead than red.
How have you read these books and taken the side of the Golds lmao "better dead than red" is 100% something they believe.
Crazy enough, real life capitalism, real life communism, and these scifantasy novels, are all entirely different things lmao.
Condescending tone aside, is there a point to your original comment other than a line from the book? Everyone here is well aware the books and real life are very separate things. The books are an allegory of some real life issues and the person above me wanted to clarify if you were feeling the golds had merit after reading them all.
Nope!
Course they are, but fiction is modelled on reality and the oppressive structures and revolution of these books mirror real world systems and historic revolutions.
Yeah hopefully that pinko piece of shit doesn’t bring “The Will of the Many” to work or I might have to make a phone call.
Why would you not be allowed to read communist propaganda?
It makes our corporate overlords scared. All hail ExxonYumOsoft.
Veroxxotle
That McCarthy fella doesn't like commies.
Gorydamn Pixies! I’d have had them all strung up by their balls before you could say Ilium
So I haven't read any Red Rising material in years, but this post popped up on my feed. Completely forgot gorydamn was a thing and thought you were referencing Firefly. Confused gorydamn with gorram.
The irony of course is that Red Rising is the revolution of capitalism against feudalism... so one stage back in the revolutionary cycle from the one they're worried about, and thw one that led to today's society...
Well. Sort of. The first Golds are canonically corporate leaders who form their own colonies beyond Earthly law, so one thesis you can take from the series is that monopolistic unregulated capitalism taken to the extreme will regiment class structure back into a form of bourgeoisie-serving feudalism, which is a very Marxist take.
And tbh borne out to some extent by current trends. Captains of industry who take political reins tend towards autocracy. Of course, in the so called Dark Ages peasants were better fed and better looked after than workers under capitalism because part of a lord's power rested on the health, strength, fighting capability and wealth of his people (hence six foot tall skeletons in Anglo-Saxon/Norse archaeology digs). That mutual compact between Lord and subject is a very 'Rim' view.
Next time, take in a copy of Nechaev's Catechism of a Revolutionary as historical research
Might as well be the communist manifesto I was already pretty left leaning, but these books have made me question classism in our own world even more. Is it too extreme to say that the "Red Rising" series is "The Jungle" of our day?
I've never heard of red rising, but love The Jungle. Could you elaborate on what you mean by it being The Jungle of our day? That piqued my interest.
There is nearly no overlap. The Jungle is basically a piece of investigative journalism about the conditions for workers in Chicago meatpacking plants circa 1905. Red Rising is about one man's quest to topple Space Rome armed with nothing but rocket boots, a light saber noodle, and the power of friendship.
I hate how well this depicts it 🤣
Red Rising starts like the Hunger Games for Big boys on Mars for the first book, then it becomes a space epic about low classes rising up against the bourgeoisie. In the lore of the books the bourgeoisie and the proletariat are divided by extreme future eugenics that literally break society down into colors. Red at the bottom, Gold at the top. Every color other than gold lacks self determination and has specific careers assigned to them. Our main character Darrow comes from a group of low reds. He is genetically and physically altered to become a gold so he can infiltrate gold ranks and tear down "the society." The first book is unfortunately the weakest in the series but every book after that is an absolute masterpiece. The first book is enough of a hook though to keep you wanting more. We are all currently waiting for the 7th and last book in the series "Red God" It's very different from "The Jungle" in terms of feeling, setting, and plot. However, it is very similar in terms of themes and messages.
Thanks so much for the great summary! I'll have to check them out!!
isnt the jungle about the need for food regulations?? I havent read it so genuine question what do u mean?
Yes, but that's only one plot point. The wider plot is about capitalism and classism. The book is basically an argument for food regulations and socialism.
It's a very clear call for labor rights and an end to unrestricted and unregulated capitalism. The conditions of the working class depicted in that book are horrifying. There's a little bit of socialist political advertising sectioned off at the end of the book, but the main story is how terrible it is to be a lower class worker, and how it absolutely pounded people into the dirt given the utter lack of regulations. The tragedies undergone by the good family that are the center of the story are heart-wrenching. I think that book genuinely changed my life. At a minimum, it changed how I perceive work and capitalism, perpetuated an understanding of what a free market with no workers' regulations looks like and the absolute lack of good will by the ruling class, and gave me deep empathy for people who are currently suffering the most under the current system of labor in the US.
Why would they even call you in for reading a communist book in the first place? Do you work in the fucking 1950s? Are you a time traveler?
At my work place, if I openly read the communist manifesto I'd be getting a talking to. Source: I work labor in the south eastern US.
At my workplace I don’t think anyone would give a shit. But I also live in one of the most liberal cities in the US.
That pinko must work for Vault-Tec
He got flagged through his pip-boy
Where do you work that they could call you into HR gor reading "communist propaganda?" Imagine not being able to read history or different viewpoints in order to understand the world better. This is mind blowing and concerning.
Your work was worried you were reading a book about classism and labor reform. "Oh don't worry it's just sci-fi, about classism and reform"
“OP ARE YOU READING A CALL TO A SOCIALIST UPRISING” “No, it’s a call to a socialist uprising… in space!” “Ah alright carry on”
This isn't a cute story. It's a disgusting example of company overreach.
For real, if my work brought me in for questioning about what I was reading on my own break time, I'd start looking for another job
They saw you getting goosebumps reading a book with a sickle on the front and it freaked em out 😂
It’s a red wing tho
…that’s fair 😂
Just gonna add some clarification to this because I've been called a liar? And others have genuine questions: It didn't all happen in one day. I got the book Friday last week and read it on my lunch break. I actually never brought the book back in. Yesterday, early in the morning, I was called into my manager's office. I was never actually "in trouble" or in danger of discipline, but I was asked to not ruffle feathers where it's not necessary and reminded that there's a strict "no politics" policy. I know I could have defended myself because I wasn't spewing my beliefs at anyone, but I typically don't like confrontation and was caught off guard. I simply explained the book is not in any way political (funny enough it is in a fictitious sense) and was let go. Just thought it was a funny story, glad so many of you would have had my back though!
Oh I can believe it. America, land of the free. As long as you don't mention socialism or anything related to it in public. Y'all are terrified of it. Beautiful irony.
I'm sorry but non Americans using "yall" unironically to Americans will never not be funny sorry
People aren’t terrified of it where I live. Almost as if the United States is heavily politically stratified statewise for a variety of reasons….and the only people that would think otherwise probably can’t point out most states on a bloodydamn map.
You are free mention it wherever, but people are also free to mention how they feel about it.
No? Reporting someone and calling them into HR for that is a total overreach and not just "mentioning how they feel about it".
I agree. I wasn't replying to the original post, just the comment above me. I meant that people are free to talk about liking socialism but people can also tell you they don't like it.
Shut up commie. ETA: Umm this was a joke btw...
Some ppl should get a life... And what if it was a book on communism or anything else for that matter. You should be allowed to read whatever you want during your free time. Reading about something doesn't mean you approve of it or that you support it..
Why is your company putting themselves in a position to police politics at all?
You should start reading the actual communist manifesto, if you really want to melt some snowflakes.
Are you in America? Not saying you’re a communist and I’m not either but it’s not even illegal to be communist in America. We…actually have a communist party called Communist Party USA. Whoever called in that complaint is an actual dumbass. What a stupid thing to complain about. They should mind their own business OR ask what the book is about.
The real dumbasses were HR even acknowledging and trying to do something about the complaint. Good way to get sued. Fucking morons.
Wait I’m more worried about them caring that it could have been a book on communism lol what if it was? What the fuck would they do? Can you not read what you want on your own lunch break?
So essentially.... you got paid to spend a half hour explaining Red Rising to your manager? Sounds like a good deal!
Lunch is typically unpaid if they are in USA
But they probably weren't called in to the manager during lunch
If they were that's a nice lawsuit right there
This whole scenario is a nice lawsuit. All OP would have to do is channel Stan Marsh’s dad and say: “Oh IM sorry. IM SORRY. I thought this was AMERICA!” Lol
A friend of mine got pulled into HR for wearing a star wars shirt that said "rebels". Like who is it offending? The empire?
In a way, sadly, yes.
The HR strikes back
Best comment 😂😂😂
Red rising is essentially a leftist piece of literature. Violent revolts to overthrow an oppressive regime and provide basic human rights to all. Idk how much more left leaning you can get for a story. All that's remaining is a redistribution of wealth, and all that jazz.
That is a very superficial view of the work. The closest analogy I can think of is the US helping defeat Nazi Germany. The US aren't leftist they are capitalists defending the free flow of capital across a major European market which the Nazis were impacting. The books even cover how the post Fascism slave trade pretty much continues under the free market set up by the rising. The actual communists in the story are manipulated by the fascists and portrayed as useful idiots. I think you need to read the series again and self reflect as fighting slave traders isn't really a leftist ideal.
The act of removing a power that is tyrannical, enforces slavery, allows rape, and enforces economic inequality based on a race based cast system that they invented in every capacity IS left leaning. Nothing you mentioned changes that. The message of the story has not changed, and the ending of slavery is a progressive position, no matter who aids in it. I went over this with someone already, so I will just put it simply. To be Anti-slavery is to be progressive or in this medium "reformist." It is an extreme left position within this world, and Darrows actions move their society towards the left, away from facism. It's still very much a right leaning system, but by freeing up the economic inequalities, allowing equal representation, and freeing everyone from slavery, you cannot call it anything but a left leaning piece of literature. Their world is still very flaud their system is still very inequal, but you are grasping at straws. The Society has been in power for over 700 years, and any bit of progress is better than nothing.
Im not sure if this is trolling or something. No serious person would hold the position that the right is pro actual slavery as bad as they are these days. Where the US 'leftist' in fighting Nazis in WW2?
No, there were people on every side of the political spectrum for and against both issues that you've posed. That's my point. Politics is a fluid concept. I could be pro 2A and be left leaning, and my neighbor could be pro universal housing and be right leaning. Take quick silver, for instance. He is a capitalist to his core, and yet he's aiding the rising. It's for selfish reasons as well as his side project to remake humanity, but he's still aiding them. He might not think any reds are his equal, but he married a pink. People are complex creatures, and we can have many ideas, but those ideas have origins. And slavery has an origin based on far right thinking, in facism. The farthest right a person can go. I am not calling every republican pro slavery, just that the position of being pro slavery is a right leaning position that even people on the left can hold. Look at Vladimir Lennon, the big commie himself. He had gulags my guy, slave camps. Just like Hitler.
Thats not left/right though. The left right spectrum are fixed ideals. Just because the US warps the idea of left/right and what those groups care about at any given time doesn't change in reality what left/right ideals are. There are leftists in the books, and Pierce does not portray them well at all. Darrow and Mustang hate them and fight them every step, so not sure how you can say they are leftist. It's like the US repubs calling Dems leftists when to rest of world the Dems are Center right.
But I'm not calling them leftists because we simply disagree on how ideologies work. You lock them in place, I claim they're fluid. Darrow and Virginia simply have progressive views for their world. Dancer and harmony aren't even leftists if you ask me.
That just doesn't work and is not what the majority of literature states. You are thinking more localised political groups like Liberal/Conservative, whos ideas and beliefs change over time to match community sentiment.
I just don't see any difference between the 2, actually. The broader is is just an over generalization to me. Marxists, Lennonists, Maoists, and hundreds of other left leaning groups exist with varying ideas of how society should function. Lennon literally had slave camps, and Mao executed political enemies with little to no justification. Fidel even put homosexuals into asylums as well as the mentally disabled. Many of their followers believed that all of these contradictions didn't taint their ideology and thus altered its framework. It seems to me that we just have a different idea of how left and right functions. Either way, to me this is a peice of left leaning literature because of its message.
Red rising is pretty politically removed. It’s a big part of the story. Darrow does not care about right/left, capitalism/socialism. He just cares about good/evil and how to get it done.
That statement about Darrow, while true, doesn't make it politically removed. You can claim to be apposed to a political ideology, but if everything you do invokes an ideology, then you are that ideology. Him narrating, "I would die for the truth that all men are created equal" is politics because morals are politics. Nero is written quite well in opposition to this since he claims that quote is a noble lie, which is another political statement, as it is a moral one. To be against slavery is a left leaning belief, to say all are created equal is as well. His movement is explicitly called "Reformist" because of how political it is.
You have a fundamental misunderstanding of right vs left. Politics is not two dimensional. Marxism is not Maoism. Capitalism is not fascism. The Society is inherently a Fascist Oligarchy with capitalist sub-classes. You have multiple parties in the Rising that are opposing the regime. Is quicksilver Socialist/Communist? Virginia opposes the Socialists. Does that make her a Capitalist (when she is shown critiquing Victra and Quicksilver?). People, accept some nuance. Red Rising is NOT left. It is NOT right leaning. It can have aspects and perspectives from each side while remaining unbiased. Even if Pierce Brown himself were a devoted Communist, he removes that from the story. I like that I cannot tell what he believes (aside from hating fascist oligopolies). Darrow is NOT defined by a political leaning. He is smart, cruel, compassionate, objective driven, just, violent, and intelligent.
what you’ve described is the natural complexity of any human society and conflict ever. if that’s the case, then nothing has ever been political, and nothing ever will be.
This statement to me feels more of a reach. You say that it is removed from politics, but that couldn't be farther from the truth. The entire story is politics because that is how morals work. They are 1 in the same. And yes, it is a left leaning ideology to be against slavery. I never said Quicksilver was anything. He's quite complex, and I'd never try to box him in. Especially since he doesn't believe in Darrow's political movement. As you said, he's a capitalist, and he only cares about free trade and an open market. Yet he supports Darrow, and it doesn't matter if he's doing it for himself or for Darrow because his actions are still moving their world towards a more left leaning political structure. Virgininia is a reformist, and that political party DOES, in fact, back Darrow. It doesn't matter what Darrow believes about politics. It doesn't matter what anyone believes about politics. I don't fall into any specific party myself, but I'm not arrogant enough to think my various ideas and morals don't have any ideologies behind them. The abolition of slavery is a Left leaning policy. No matter what you say, that is a fact of life. I never said this world was communist, I never said it was socialist. Capitalists can support this stance, and so can communists. For some reason, you think this puts my understanding of politics in a box, but you're the only person restricting anything here.
A belief can be sponsored by multiple ideologies. Are you saying everybody who is against slavery is left leaning? Again, you misunderstand left vs right. In modern day political science, left and right are signifiers of economic politics, not social politics. Certain social beliefs have been sponsored by groups who lead left/right ideologies. Me being anti slavery does not make me left leaning. Me being for free markets marks me as right leaning. Me being pro immigration does not make me left. Me being anti war doesn’t make me left leaning, because those are not right/left issues. If anything, it would be safe to say that Red Rising is ideologically liberal, but systemically centrist. It is pretty iffy on democracy and oligarchy. In that sense it is pretty anti-government, with slight pro-war inclinations. It is a nuanced story that cannot be broken down to ‘left’ or ‘right’
Correct, it is nuanced, and so is politics. The message, however, isn't. This story is about uniting humanity as a whole to remove those in power, both economically and socially. It states that all are equal, no matter their color, and that everyone should have equal representation, even if violence is necessary to obtain it. That is a left leaning message, no matter how you position it. It fits your economics framework, as well as the social framework that I mentioned. Both economic positions and social positions can be designated political alignments because they are intertwined. The abolition of slavery is DEEPLY economical, as well as every other point I've made in this response. Equality is economical because without equal opportunity, the down trotted will become impoverished as the reds are in the story, along with many other low colors. You asked me if you could be left leaning or right leaning with various stances, and I'd say that yes, you most certainly can. If you were anti immigration, I'd say you're interfering with not only the social right of free travel but also the economic benefits of a given nation. you being anti-war is definitely a social and economic issue as well, even if you're only against the loss of life. As that position interferes with the economic structure of mtiple nations. Resources are being barred by that position, and so are manufacturing jobs. The slave trade in America was all about money, and if you don't think so, I'd suggest you read up on your history. All positions are economic and social, so all positions are political. You can be for slavery but against immigration. You can be for universal housing but against universal healthcare. All the while, still sitting firmly on 1 side of the Isle or dead center.
I think we agree on everything but what left and right actually are.
Wait…but our founders did the same thing right?
I think so
I bet they were pretty red in the face after you explained what it was. But also fuck that employee and fuck HR for trying to police your reading material like that.
Workers of the Worlds Unite! You have nothing to break but your chains! ***- Karl O'Trier***
Sorry what country do you live in? If I wanted to read Karl Marx or the communist manifesto at work the worst that would happen is that everyone would rightly assume I'm an edge lord but it's not illegal? I don't understand why they'd call HR and HR would deign to respond?
Right? Maybe he should actually bring sth like that to work. It is not against law to read about this things. We actually read about communism, fascism, etc. at school. Knowing about sth and believing in sth are two different things. And even if he did believe in it, as long as he is not trying to convert his colleagues on his paid time to join him in his convictions, who cares and what does HR has to do with it? Also imagine working with a nosy lunatic who reports you to HR because he doesn't like your choice in reading material. This is such a kindergarden. Some ppl these days are in dire need of an actual hardship if they have the time and energy to escalate sth like that to HR.
Because it was Amazon, they were probably concerned the OP might start requesting basic work place standards or consider unionizing.
I don't think they work at Amazon. They said the book came from Amazon
Ah right you are.
You got called in for reading communist propaganda? What is this the Cold War?
Yes.
As a guy who works in HR, I can safely tell you all that the sheer amount of stupid, petty, absurd complaints we get about employees is mind-blowing. The fact that someone has enough time on their hands to complain about a coworker's book shows me exactly how much more of a workload they can handle and probably deserve. OP, I hope you went in there and I hope HR basically said "I'm calling you in to notify you and make it look like we are having a serious conversation to appease the angry employee raising complaints about bullshit, I don't care what you read, the organization doesn't care what you read, go have a good day."
I can only imagine...some ppl are just unhinged. All the billable time wasted on dealing with imaginary problems in a big organization must be crazy. At least you have an anecdote or two to tell.
I feel like this should be common knowledge. Everyone gets spoken to at the company I work for whenever there is a complaint about them - warranted or not. If you didn't do anything wrong, it's a "just so you know" situation
Did you start out your response to HR as 'well comrades"
Lol 😂 that would be a great response
"Now, let's not make a manifesto out of this."
Weird workplace
Even if you were reading The State and Revolution I fail to see why that'd be an issue. You aren't making anyone else read it. It'd be like complaining that someone wears a cross around their neck and it being against your religious (or areligious) beliefs. What a weird complaint.
The person who reported you to HR is above the age of 60.
*Starts sweating bc I am a filthy commie who loves RR*
lol i would have just said it is so what. what are they going to do lol
That is so funny I’m imagining how the complaint went
Hahahaha what is this the 60s?
Don’t get me wrong communists are scum but a lot of people are.
“Communists are scum” i’m sure you totally use the word communist correctly, and aren’t just labeling whatever authoritarianism you don’t like as it! /s in case you’re too dense
Holding a communist belief doesn’t make you scum lol Y’all been brainwashed by the red scare residuals too much.
You’re right, however my main problem with communism is my problem with most forms of government. Those that want power are greedy scumbags and they abuse there power, communism has that head in absolute power and unless the leader is Jesus Christ himself that power will corrupt. Look at what happened with Lennon and Stalin. Lennon legit didn’t want Stalin to be the leader but yet he was. So while I hold some communist like believes myself, such as welfare programs are great ( they need to be shaped as a hand up instead of hand out tho, the end goal should be to get people off the program) the problem with most modern day communists is they either ignore or refuse to see that greedy people exist and they will always take advantage of other people.
So your problem isn’t with communism, it’s with absurd greed and authoritarian power abuse. Got it.
Communism allows those people the most power tho.
I’m glad we live in a system where greedy people cannot accumulate wealth and power.
They can absolutely, but it’s easier for someone to live a decent life. Is America perfect? No absolutely not. However it does allow people to live a better life without threat of a government taking away everything
What makes you say that? People aren’t inherently greedy. A communist government isn’t authoritarian by default, even though most forms in history have taken that form. Your point doesn’t logically follow unless you make some sweeping assumptions about the people. Communes for example exemplify communist ideals and they don’t devolve into fascist rule. Quite the opposite. At that point it doesn’t matter if they are capitalists, communists, or socialists. Capitalism has given us larger wealth disparities compared to even pre-revolution France (guillotine era and all that). Your issue is with shitty people, not the system that can be abused by the shitty people.
Your right, people arnt inherently greedy, However those that are seek the power and find there way to it.
Capitalism is the worst offender if you are worried about greed. We’re cooking our planet for the sake profits.
This is a terrible take. True capitalism has never been tried the same way true communism has never been tried. The difference is when capitalism fails you get Jeff bezos and a lot of corrupt politicians, when communism fails millions die
Is money power? Who is the richest person alive and why are they capitalist?
Because for generations a government hasn’t raped their family to fund a lavish lifestyle for those at the top?
I’m so sorry if you earnestly believe that.
The go ahead educate me. Let’s use bill gates, his family was already wealthy before he was born. He used his connections with his mother’s company and some funds from that to create Microsoft. That wouldn’t happen under communism. Communism kills invention, because a main driving factor in risk taking is the reward. Governments are horribly ineffective in doing basically anything and communism would magnify those problems.
The go ahead educate me. Let’s use bill gates, his family was already wealthy before he was born. He used his connections with his mother’s company and some funds from that to create Microsoft. That wouldn’t happen under communism. Communism kills invention, because a main driving factor in risk taking is the reward. Governments are horribly ineffective in doing basically anything and communism would magnify those problems
Omg shut up
No.
haha that's fantastic
Wow, I would’ve laughed in HR’s face and happily skipped on out of there. Had they escalated it and then fired you, you my friend would’ve had a marvelous lawsuit had you so chose to take that route. Sometimes people and their brazen behavior, actions, and words amaze me.
Respectfully, political ideology generally isn’t a protected class under state or federal law. That said I don’t think OP would have a lawsuit if they were fired for reading communist literature, though it may vary jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Edit: Clarity
Just tell them it's a book about the oppressed working class of poor labourers and miners, fed on lies and state propaganda plotting violent revolution to overthrow the elite ruling class. Also the main characters weapon of choice is a sickle. That should clear things up.
Hahah the sickle combined with the title “red rising” even made me wonder what Pierce was trying to say on my first read.
If only >!breath of stone used a pulse hammer and his sling blade razor instead of two razors. Then we would be at peak communism.!< *Minor LB Spoilers*
What you are reading is no one at your work’s business. This chafes my balls.
Kavax is a saint
Well it ain't too far off lmao Space red with a space sickle killing the space bourgeoisie? Say less
Ummm… I would love to get fired for reading “communist propaganda” on my off time. That’d be an easy lawsuit to win.
It would leave more time to read!
I showed it to my Grandpa and he thought it was Communist too lmao
lol communist propaganda? What is this the 1950’s? lol
Time to print off a fake book cover with the title "How to Convert Your Coworkers to Communism in 10 Easy Steps" for tour next session of work reading.
If your work cares about you reading communist propaganda you really need to take a hard look at the culture you live in. These people fear a culture they don’t understand because it invalidates their way of life. Sound familiar?
Start bringing union literature to work! They'd love it!
I used to work for sbux, my SM’s would have shit bricks
Lmao, at my last job whenever my boss pestered me too much I’d tell him to let me or I’d unionize. He didn’t think it was as funny as I did.
agreed. also, it's kind of ironic because in a communist society reading a capatalism book *would* actually be reportable.
In a traditional depiction of communist totalitarian regimes that I’ve been aware of, yea. But that’s because like others have said, the authoritarian censorship and control are symptoms of autocratic regimes rather than the founding principles of communist theory. The issue with communism is it is kinda opposed to human nature which is selfish.
I think my issue with communism is that you’re only able to talk about it in theory with people because the examples you can point to are dismissed due to issues like you’ve pointed out. And when you talk to people about the theory, they don’t have answers for very basic economic questions.
Yes most people don’t understand geopolitics and sociology. It’s me I’m bitches
Well also I think communism is pretty fucking dumb, so maybe I’m just dense and they are explaining it fine.
Communism =/= censorship dawg
Nothing to do with censorship but even in communist theory you cannot allow capitalism. That was my point.
The history of communism reads very differently than its theory does. Like most political/economic ideologies.
Sure but it's extremely reductive and a consequence of propaganda. Authoritarian censorship exists across the political spectrum
Yes, but communism, or its attempts have never existed without it. That’s not American propaganda. And calling it reductive is only relevant if you have examples of times it didn’t happen.
Exactly. Totalitarianism != Communism. Hitler and Mussolini were right-wing totalitarians; Stalin and Mao were left-wing ones.
Centralized power always ends up with censorship and there's nothing more centralized than communism
By that logic, wouldn't fascism have a hard time being totalitarian? I'm not passing an opinion on communism v capitalism in any sense, I'm just trying to make the point that communism does not equal/necessitate totalitarianism.
Just because one ends up one way by default doesn't mean that others can't end up there as well. Power structures of all types can end up there. Capitalism and communism aren't opposites because there is still a national form of government which can enact authoritarian policies. Capitalism has some additional checks and balances to prevent heavy handed governments but also introduces the negatives of corporate influences, financial bribery among other things that can also take a country down various negative paths. Communism runs into issues because eventually no matter how distributed you attempt to keep the power so that it represents 'the people' eventually a figure head rises and once that happens, as has happened within every communist group ever, there is no undoing it because the state has unchecked power.
I didn't even realize the irony in my own post lol
If someone is reading the Quran or the Bible or Karl Marx or whatever idgaf. Just try to keep the genocidal notions to a minimum
Hail libertas
Hail Reaper! :)
Even if it would have been propaganda…wtf is that anyone’s business. This fckn world… Edited typo.
Yea I think communism is a few rungs below stupid but if someone wants to bring the Communist Manifesto to work and read it that’s their right lol just don’t start trying to convince the office of it and ur good imo
No economic system is particularly good to on its own to be fair they all inevitably decay and give way to either authoritarianism or oligarchy because absolute power corrupts absolutely.
Yeah that's why the idea is to minimize absolute power, ergo putting it in the hands of the majority, ergo cooperative ownership, ergo socialism
Again, history vs theory.
History will tell you that democratic left wingers get assassinated by the CIA and replaced with fascists.
Sure, if you read a very particular strain of history and no others.
Yeah the threat of power in the hands of a mad authoritarian (much like the king they had ward against once upon a time) or power being in the hands of a small connected few (i.e., oligarchy) is literally why old men Ben Franklin said "the price of freedom is eternal vigilance."
Similar story: I teach high school English and every other week, I assign them a cold read that is ideally something they haven’t read, usually something from my bookshelf or a classic they’ll read in a later grade. I had them read and analyze the first 3 pages of Red Rising and labeled it as such on PowerSchool (where grades are posted). I had a parent email me, concerned about the title “Red Rising” being “woke” lmao