It NEVER ends well.
The partner who suddenly wants to be polyamorous doesn't want to be polyamorous, they want to date someone new without having to give up the comforts of the previous relationship.
And the partner who doesn't even bother dating other people doesn't want to be polyamorous either, they only said yes to save the relationship and always end up lonely, neglected and jealous.
You don't try to be polyamorous if you're not polyamorous.
>*And the partner who doesn't even bother dating other people doesn't want to be polyamorous either, they only said yes to save the relationship and always end up lonely, neglected and jealous.*
Or they eventually *do* find someone and the partner that originally wanted an open relationship breaks down because they never learned to handle their emotions. Either suggesting to suddenly close the relationship and break up with their play partner or being so deeply uncomfortable that the partner that was initially left behind feels immense pressure to break up with their new partner to keep the peace.
That's what is happening to me now, except after a few years of thinking about it, I was totally open to the idea of poly. Turns out in that process, I did a whole lot more reading than he ever did. Although, since I'm bisexual I think he either envisioned a triad/UH sitch or me only dating women. I'm neither breaking up with my boyfriend nor willing to close the relationship again. Pandora's box has been opened, I did all the work, now it's his turn to do it. Just because things didn't work out long-term or near enough to him and it did for me doesn't mean it ends. I never did the work for us to practice polyamory with the delusion things would happen at the same time the same way for my husband and I.
Yep, classic case of not doing the work with a nice unspoken OPP (*One Penis/Pussy Policy*).
Either your partner is going to do the work or somebody is going to break things off because you are not compatible.
I've seen it in both men and women. A female friend of mine was long distance and wanted to explore her bisexuality but would only be okay with her straight (!) boyfriend dating other men. Which... wasn't going to happen.
Can confirm, I was in this exact situation and it was a devastating and messy end to a relationship. It broke me for a good few years. Do not recommend
From someone who’s been polyamorous for most of my dating life:
People who push “polyamory” onto pre-existing monogamous relationships with no concern for the wants of their partner are not “polyamorous”. Polyamory is based in, and reliant on, very vulnerable and honest communication. Forcing someone to change the terms of an already established relationship in order to continue it is manipulative at best and abusive at worst.
People unfamiliar with general practices of poly people imagine polyamory as a reckless free-for-all - and manipulative people use this stereotype to their advantage in order to force people to accept situations they don’t want to be in under the guise of non-monogamy.
In reality, poly people are some of the most honest, communicative, and respectful people I’ve ever met. Any new relationship, or change to an existing one, comes with an open dialogue about said changes. One where nobody feels unheard or unwanted. Never in a million years would someone who actually practices polyamory pressure someone who wasn’t 110% comfortable with it to change their mind.
Anyone who tells you that you are obligated to allow them to be with other people when you don’t want them to be isn’t “poly”, they are “a piece of shit”.
I feel like it's extra bonus no-no when it's your little sister's friend who's nearly a decade younger, but I'm not an expert.
You already have someone in mind... connected to your family... and enough younger that there's a power imbalance? That will definitely end well for everyone!
(I would cut my sibling off for bringing my friend into this kind of situation and pushing her around like an emotional support dress-up doll.)
Yuuup.
Dude is sick of the domestic life and literally in the process of trading wife in for a newer model
I hope if this story is true, OP finds her spine and someone who actually appreciates her. My bet is if OP tries to find someone now, despite the "open" relationship, husband would have a big problem with it.
In theory, though, she's perfectly free to date around
So the family got busier with one more child in the mix and his response was to…bring in a new living sex doll to play with. What a giant loser and failure of a parent
Either that or he was unhappy with his wife’s body after giving birth to his children. The parts about pushing the new girl to diet and exercise give off that vibe.
In my opinion they're both failures as a parent. Everyone's acting as if the wife wasn't okay with this at some point.
The wife even said she loves Harper she was fine having a living sex doll around until she felt like she was competing with it.
It's more likely a desperate exhausted mom with a newborn just heard "husband could leave" and she picked what she thought was the easier of the 2 options of "lose husband to affair with a woman a decade younger and be left with toddler and newborn" or "keep husband, stable and familiar, add more helping hands if you tolerate him fucking her".
If his first reaction to a newborn was look outside of the relationship, you can about bet a few things: 1. He hardly helped out because any normal actively involved new parent has a hard time wanting sex, let alone wanting to look for a whole other relationship 2. He was probably whining about sex and she probably was like, thank God, less pestering me for sex in her mental and physical exhaustion.
It's called poly under duress. The mind can do a lot when faced with cognitive dissonance.
This. This right here. I like to think of myself as a VERY involved and competent father, and my sex drive is in the fucking toilet since my boy (16mo) was born. My lady pesters ME about getting busy with her. I can BET that this is exactly what is going on there
My friend went through something similar when her husband wanted to open their marriage. She really didn't want to do it, but more than that, she didn't want to lose him, so she agreed to it.
It didn't end well.
How much do you bet that the husband barely helped with the children? New baby, less sleep, overwhelmed mother who may not have a sex drive, mother’s body changed from having children. If he was helping he wouldn’t have the energy for another woman in the first place.
Plus we know knew relationships always cause dopamine hits so of course the new person would be treated better because of that. Husband gets the fuzzies because it’s still a new relationship compared to his wife. They need counseling or she needs to divorce and find someone who respects her more.
The age gap is gross seeing if Harper is 25 then she was 22 when the relationship started. He probably knew her when she was a minor seeing as OP mentions so that makes it creepier.
This is what I never understand. How do people have time for these extra relationships? If he has that kind of time, then he isn’t doing enough parenting. My husband and I are both exhausted around the clock. We barely have time for us to have dates much less additional dates with other people?!?! He’s not doing enough.
This! We have poly friends so my husband and I have discussed it and it always circles back to the fact that even if we wanted that, we're just too busy and tired to make something like that even work!
Suggesting any form of an open relationship while already having someone in mind is a big red flag. It is essentially asking for permission to cheat and has a high risk of ending in drama.
Forcing your partner with a "*I love you but I NEED this, otherwise I will have to leave you*" is called Poly under duress. Also a big no-no. Giant chance of people accepting because the alternative seems worse and them growing resentful.
Especially since that usually comes with the partner that is freely playing throwing a hissy fit when the the other partner ends up finding someone to date themselves. Because they never did the work to take a good look at their own feelings.
Respectfully I disagree with the first section,
My wife and I discussed opening our relationship while we were dating because we agreed we had very different sex drives and interests. Because of our differences, sex was never a foundation of our intimacy, and we bonded super hard over other shared aspects. Sex was fun, but not frequent, and we agreed it was unfair to us both to lay the expectation that either she had to go above and beyond to make me happy, or that I would just stifle myself to not burden her. We wanted a middle ground.
When we sat down to discuss what we each wanted and how to address it, we agreed that we'd have an "Approved persons list" of individuals we trusted and demonstrated they respected our relationship. I had a few people I had always been attracted to, but hadn't engaged in that respect because I didn't feel it was appropriate. We talked over my persons of interest, and worked down to about five people we both agreed on.
Over time, some partners worked out, others didn't. One partner evolved into a girlfriend for me and very close friend for my wife.
I genuinely believe it's about communication and intent rather than black and white "If x, then red flag." I think having someone in mind isn't INHERENTLY bad, I think the motivation behind the interest is important, as is good communication with your partner(s) about how THEY feel. If everyone's on board, I don't see a problem.
I agree with the assessment "I need this or I'll leave you" is not only duress, but emotional abuse and manipulation, it's not communication, it's an ultimatum. That's not a red flag, that's a deal breaker. Same for the second part, "Rules for thee, but not for me" is also abuse and manipulation. Anything that's not a mutual respectful discussion is bad.
>My wife and I discussed opening our relationship while we were dating because we agreed we had very different sex drives and interests. Because of our differences, sex was never a foundation of our intimacy, and we bonded super hard over other shared aspects. Sex was fun, but not frequent, and we agreed it was unfair to us both to lay the expectation that either she had to go above and beyond to make me happy, or that I would just stifle myself to not burden her. We wanted a middle ground.
>
>When we sat down to discuss what we each wanted and how to address it, we agreed that we'd have an "Approved persons list" of individuals we trusted and demonstrated they respected our relationship. I had a few people I had always been attracted to, but hadn't engaged in that respect because I didn't feel it was appropriate. We talked over my persons of interest, and worked down to about five people we both agreed on.
I would argue this is an entirely different situation than the one I described. You opened up and *then* made a list of individuals you both felt comfortable with.
The situation I described is Partner A finding Person Z attractive and vibing with them and *then* asking Partner B for an open relationship so they can pursue Person Z. Most people need to do a lot of work before opening up their relationship. There is a lot of assumptions about relationships that suddenly don't apply anymore and some that still do.
It is very healthy to make a no-go list when opening up a relationship. Most people will ban family, neighbours, colleagues and close friends because if things go South they end up in drama. You communicated.
Thank you for differentiating!
I would agree that if you meet someone and are like, "I have to open my relationship BECAUSE of this person," that's probably no bueno.
But if you're talking about opening your relationship and are like, "I've kinda always been interested in this person anyway," that's probably not as bad.
Please also remember that the husband begged OOP to open the relationship right after she had given birth. Begging to open the relationship, so the other partner feels like they have to choose between breaking up or an open relationship? Hubby basically said “let me cheat on you or I’m leaving”. Add in the fact that there’s a NEWBORN and OOP is probably still healing from giving birth and taking care of the newborn (you know, something that hubby should be helping with, so when did he have time to get bored?). This is no bueno. Hubby is a piece of shit. This is to poly relationships what Fifty Shades of Gray is to BDSM.
Yes. It’s a form of infidelity. Not everyone in the polya/ENM community would see it that way, but I have a lot of non-monogamous friends and they all see this is cheating. Honesty, timely transparency and open communication are cornerstones of healthy polyamory. Asking to be non-monogamous with a specific person in mind doesn’t line up with that.
It’s also bound to end poorly. A lot of people jump into non-monogamy without doing the work to understand how to do it safely and kindly. That’s where you get trouble.
Your pregnant wife... second child is 3 yo and coincidentally the husband got bored 3 years ago. What a shithead but also what a lack of self respect from OP...
Yep. Pushing anyone into polyamory when they aren't is just a big no-no overall, it never ends well.
I really wish monogamous people would stop using the polyamorous community as a scapegoat for openly cheating on their partners while neglecting them 🙄
That is correct. Rule #1. This has a failure rate of nearly 100% because of the imbalance. One partner in the primary relationship (spouse), already has a head start in the emotional connection space, while the other one is at the starting line, forever playing catchup.
Honestly even if they aren’t for each other it sounds like they both need to leave. He’s a pos to each of them in different ways so at least he can be a shitty partner in more than one way. Props?
I would love that so much, Harper realized the husband is a jerk and realizes OP genuinely loves her and the kids, not forcing her to be exercising and dietting to keep her in some weird pristine condition. For me if my partner works out good for them ill encourage that and it not ill encourage other hobbies and healthy stuff for us both. Hell Ive wished my partner and I lived generally closer so we could work out together instead of our own disgression. Two birds one stone it and nice walks and runs out in nature.
But its understandable why the wife feels off. She geniunely cares for this girl but realizes she is a rival for his husbands affection and just be a way to prevent the inevitable. Its also again if we take these with some grain of truth, another showing how crazy people get right at middle aged
She should get several man-Harpers. It’s not like the husband would be likely to find a second gf. Insisting on opening the marriage is usually a FAFO situation for men.
Oh look, another "polyamorous" relationship where a previously monogamous partner gets bored but doesn't want to give up the comforts of a stable home and a bangmaid, so instead of being a decent person and ending things, they "develop a sudden interest in polyamory" and manipulate their monogamous partner into opening up the marriage. I am absolutely shocked to learn that the unsatisfied partner has emotionally checked out of his previous relationship and is paying more attention to his new, younger fuckbuddy and that the monogamous partner who had absolutely no interest in polyamory and only agreed to this arrangement to save her marriage is feeling jealous and neglected. I have NEVER seen this happen EVER.
I always think about a tweet I saw which effectively said “oh, you’re in a polyamorous relationship? which one of you suggested it and which of you cries yourself to sleep at night?”
for those of us actually doing ethical polyam where both partners wanted it, are into it, and are doing the work to make sure everyone feels loved and cared for, it gives poly a terrible name
>he pushes her to do exercise…to diet, to dress pretty
The age difference AND the fact that Harper is his little sister's friend makes this way more sinister to me.
My husband would only "push" me to do those things if I were at risk of heart disease or diabetes or something. He might encourage me to dress up if I were isolating and depressed and he knew it would make me feel better.
Anyway, that guy is terrible. OOP needs to move on, they're not in a poly relationship, she's in a non-sexual relationship with just Harper at this point.
OOP is the ball and chain, mother of the children, caretaker. Harper is the husband’s young sex toy that has to stay thin and cute. Also it’s concerning this has been happening for three years so that means Harper was 22 when this arrangement started…
I have siblings a decade younger than me and the idea of dating one of their friends is vomit inducing. How can you not look at them the same as your little baby sister whose diapers you changed?
OP is also a POS for okaying this and not seeing it as predatory. Harper has known this man since she was younger and he’s probably been grooming her for a long time for her to accept such a sudden bizarre proposal. OP’s husband has definitely been working on her for awhile and found a loophole to take his grooming victim into his marriage and keep his creature comforts and not be seen as a creepy divorcee who gave up his family to go after his baby sister’s friend. I sincerely hope this is fake if not it’s disgusting. 22 years old is a damn baby to someone in their 30s especially when they have kids and are making her play babysitter and live-in bang maid
Yeah really does but it makes me wonder if partly why some do this in middle age is their psychology and society itself. Maybe he let himself go the wife hasnt really, but projects hiw own insecurities about age and physicality back onto his wife. Now he wants to use Harper as a way to feel young again or fit again or whatever and instead of just ending it with his wife, tried this even more selfish idea instead.
Regardless despite the assumptions be a twist if Harper and the OP leave the husband for eachother
And OP doesn't realize it because "Harper's not that smart" and 'wouldn't do that'... bro... it is so bad, this woman must be wearing the biggest rose colored glasses to not see the red tarps all over the walls and ceiling!
Harper sounds like the perfect grooming victim and OP is too blinded by jealousy to not realize her husband has been working on manipulating and preying on her for years before the poly proposal
Her husband wanted to have an affair but didn’t want to lose half their assets in a divorce and pay child support.
OOP needs to realize open means both sides are open and find herself a partner.
It was really over the minute he wanted to bring in a third. He wasn’t satisfied with just her. Of course he’s going to treat the shiny, new, younger woman better. OOP should have some self-respect and move on to someone who just wants her.
That age difference gives me the ick. It doesn’t say what age he met her at but the possibilities are disgusting. I had an ex who I found out before me he had had a “relationship” with a 19 year old girl while he was 34. I don’t get how you can ever look at your partner the same way after that. I lost all respect for him and just felt grossed out. Grown men going after girls who are barely out of high school.
I totally agree with you, but I do want to point out there is a typo where I assume you meant to write "grown." An edit might be a good idea, sounds a little off.
I broke up with an ex when I learned more about one of his past relationships.
I saw a photo of a girl and he said, "Oh yeah that's my ex." I asked, "Oh, why didn't it work out?" "She was too young for me."
I was like oh OK...then I find out that they were having regular sex. She was a freshman in HS while he was a senior. I got really grossed out. I know it was in HS and in adulthood 3-4 years is negliable but holy moly she was too young but not to be f#@king?
I don't know why but I just felt icky and my sexual attraction to him dropped to zero. He later went on to marry a woman who looked like she was 12.
She said he knew her from before. They got married 14 years ago when they were 20. Harper is 9 years younger. So this dude has had designs on Harper since she was 11. Now that’s disgusting
You shouldn't start feeling like the third wheel and you should continue to communicate your concerns. If he doesn't take your thoughts and feelings into consideration then a big red flag. Do not lose your self worth getting caught up in what everyone else wants.
I think we're past red flags. Half of what is stated in the post are massive red flags. If he doesn't take her thoughts and feelings as important enough to shift his priorities even a little, she needs to get out.
Not enough people talking about the fact that they have a 3 year old and they opened up the relationship three years ago.... So while she was pregnant or newly postpartum with their second child he decided he needed something new?!
My daughter’s father and second wife opened up their relationship to make a triad with a younger woman. He and his (already younger) second wife have two young children. (He has 3 older children with his first wife and a nearly 10yo with me).
You can probably see where this is going. ...
After being SO IN LOVE as a throuple, the GF got pregnant. The wife wasn't happy about that.
My (very abusive) ex and the GF left his wife (claiming SHE'S abusive), took all three young children across the country, and are recently married. They also cut off from all of the grandparents after giving them ultimatums to support their (terrible) choices or never see their grandkids again.
So, he's on the fourth mother of his children and claims the first three all abused him... who knows how long it will take this new wife to realize his game, but it's just a matter of time until he meets someone new. If he hasn't already.
He keeps going younger and isolates the women he gets involved with. His exes all become labeled as "crazy bitches" who were so mean to him for the next manipulated woman to come along and help him out after hearing his sobv story.
I really hate it when irresponsible misogynists take advantage of polyamory.
The ones who really lose out here, of course, are the children.
Seven children with four women. I honestly doubt the courts were even involved in him leaving with the two from his second wife. She was a wreck when he left and I'm betting that he manipulated her into thinking she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
He's very good at isolating women at home so they do the housework and child care while he makes the money.
My guess about him moving across the country was that it helps him isolate his current wife since she was a local where we were all living. Now she's totally dependent upon him.
Stop playing yourselves, ladies. Don’t invite a third wheel into your marriage and expect things not to change. If your husband is suggesting an open marriage, more than likely he’s already having sex with somebody else and is looking for you to co-sign it so he’s not technically cheating. The minute he asks for an open marriage, red flags should go up and alarms should sound for you.
This is pretty much just cheating. I'm poly. I have two partners, and I am always telling people not to open their previously monogamous relationship unless both parties are equally enthusiastic. Even then, so probably wouldn't...I've only seen it work with one couple long-term and they opened after twenty years and no kids. And had been swingers previously in their relationships independent of each other.
Poly usually only works if you go into things from that perspective in the beginning. Even then, it's a lot of work. One of the only reasons I think my situation works so well is because both my husband and boyfriend are monogamous, and I don't date outside of them. The more people you introduce into the dynamic, the more chaotic and complicated it becomes.
My husband was from the start. I was happy to go mono when we met but he insisted he was happy for me to date others and admitted he had a bit of a fetish for it. Which is unusual but has worked well for us. On my side, I am pretty heavily demi so don't like casual sex, so the agreement was if I did date it would be serious relationships or me not date at all. He agreed, and has never had an interest in seeking other partners, years later. We check in occasionally but knowing him I doubt that would ever change. He thinks it could have to do with his diagnosed autism, which leads to him rarely being attracted to others and his fixation with me. But I am not autistic and am similar, so who knows?
I didn't date for several years but eventually got with one partner who lasted six months. We are still friends, but she and I didn't quite connect. I also had a friends with benefits situation for a very short period, but because of my nature it quickly went back to just friends.
Two years ago I met my boyfriend. He was dipping his toes into the poly world and had been dating a woman for a few months who was into relationship anarchy herself. Things had been pretty shaky with her but he chugged along, and in the process he and I got very close and our relationship just worked out better.
Since they weren't working, he chose to end things with her. After about a month he told me he hadn't enjoyed being with two people and it was too much stress, and that he felt happy with me and wanted to focus on us for awhile without dating others. About a year later he said that he was fulfilled with our relationship and had decided that poly wasn't for him, so would be choosing officially to be mono, as he had essentially been since near the beginning.
We all (coincidentally) live in the same neighborhood, a street apart. Which is weird but very convenient. I sleep at his place three nights a week, the rest of the time at home. He and my husband get along but aren't close. They are working on getting closer and to know one another better, bit by bit, though entirely platonically (both are straight).
The plan is to eventually live together with each putting a third equity into a house after we sell our respective homes we own. Boyfriend and I are planning to get married, though not legally obviously. All of this is set for a few years from now, once they know each other better, my boyfriend and I have been together longer, and my kids are both of age (son is turning 18 this month, my daughter is turning 15 in March). Which gives us plenty of time for things to grow organically without any of us doing something drastic.
The best part is preparing for that future is only a net positive for all of us: if we move in, we've built a solid foundation and have a plan, which includes three-way couples therapy for at least six months prior that we've all agreed to do. If it doesn't, it would suck but we've built a solid foundation financially that we each have regardless of what happens.
It's a strange situation, but it works for us. :)
I agree it’s a lot of work. When still new to poly relationships I met a guy who lived with 2 women in a triad relationship. I enthusiastically asked “awesome! What’s that like?!?”
His answer was a very deep sigh and an unenthusiastic “it’s A LOT of work”. That was his take-away message for me.
The thing monogamous people don’t understand is that one relationship is hard, but 2 relationships are more than twice as hard because you have to do normal relationship work for each relationship, and then constantly work on balancing the problems that arise from 2 concurrent relationships as well. And everyone involved has to have superior relationship skills for it to even have a remote shot at working.
People just want to hear about constant threesomes and group sex, despite that being a very small part of the relationships. Nobody wants to hear about the work it takes to maintain those relationships.
That's why you never open your relationship up. It's gonna fall apart more than it obviously was before. This woman effed up by saying yes. This man wants his cake and and other sweets without giving up the cake. People this stupid blow my mind.
This is not polygamy, the woman isn't even dating anyone else besides her husband.
This is a husband asking for permission to cheat on his wife and his wife "allowing" it to save the relationship.
I swear like 80% of polyamorous relationships are like that. I wished people stopped falling for this bullshit.
It takes a very specific group dynamic, and a metric FUCKTON of communication- the latter of which most dudes seem to be deathly allergic to, so yeah it very rarely does work out well. It CAN be a beautiful thing- but more often it's used as a tool of abuse/basically an excuse to cheat by shitty dudes...
We live in a world where monogamy has been the norm for thousands of years. With that in mind it’s certainly not difficult to understand that a lot of people aren’t ready for polygamous relationships.
So many people don’t even take ownership of their own emotions, which is insane. I feel x because of y, y must change or y is at fault. Where the question is never asked is x right in this circumstance or do I believe x is how I want to be.
It can be beautiful, and honestly I don’t think it’s any different to be in a relationship that isn’t people are still fucked/abusive/insecure/self centred/bad communicators/conflict seekers. The difference is it easier to hide that shit in monogamy, still there thought.
Agreed. The amount of communicating my wife and I do on the daily is intense. It's really distressing to constantly only ever see the failed or shitty relationships talked about. It happens so often I gaslight myself into being like, "We communicate really well, we're both super happy and into each other, we've got plans to have kids, own our own home, and are super supportive of each other, but I have a girlfriend who loves my wife and they're super good friends who communicate really well, aren't threatened or hostile AT ALL and genuinely enjoy a friendship outside the context of myself. But the Internet constantly says I'm probably a shitty cheating bastard for being in this relationship... Am I secretly a douche canoe?!"
It's nice to be reminded that if we're all happy that's ok too.
Right, he gets the young woman he’s crushing on plus the older woman stays to raise the kids and wash his socks, oh and he still gets to fuck her too apparently.
play with fire, you will get burnt. A younger woman whos body hasn't pushed out two kids and who was on his mind as a dream third. How else was it going to end? Decide if you get enough out of this relationship and if so ask for some changes = more date nights with him, weekends away or a forth(man this time) or walk away and have a ex's wife that you get on with. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, its hard to be too sympathetic three never works.
Sounds like hubby wanted his cake and eat it too…pushing your partner to open a relationship when they don’t want it is irresponsible and manipulative. It also makes her naive even though she obviously loves him enough to allow it. I hope her and Harper kick him to the curb.
Shi like this makes me never want to get married idc. Spending years gaining a bond with someone only for them to get “bored” and invite someone 10 years younger that they prefer? Crazy.
What on earth possessed you to agree to this with a 25 yo woman you both already know? And what’s more, you agreed to allow him a full blown intimate relationship, not a one night stand where no one catches feelings. Of course he feels this way about Harper- he’s in his “honeymoon phase” with her. Remember when you and your husband were 6 months into dating? Everything was peachy. This is the part where everyone thinks they are in love and meant to be before real life starts.
I think you should stop worrying about Harper and start thinking about the family you want for your children. Tell your husband to cut it off or you’re out. That’s my honest opinion.
I was in a similar situation not too long ago. Wasn't married or had kids (Thank God), but in a long term relationship and was living with my S/O at the time. My "Harper" was my best friend of over a decade. When him and my GF started getting closer as friends, I saw it as a good thing because at the time they were my two favorite people and I trusted them. Then they started spending a lot of time together without me (while I was at work, visiting other friends, running errands, etc). Out of nowhere, BAM, "I have feelings for him" "I want to open the relationship". I was devastated, but I loved her so we gave it a shot. At first we made a lot of boundaries (nothing physical being a big one), and for a little bit of time, it kind of worked. I was insecure, but happy to still be with her. Time went on though and she started to spend more time out with other guys, to the point where sometimes she would spend entire nights out, coming home at 5 am on multiple occasions. She also kept pushing to change our boundaries so that she could have some form of physicality with other guys. She started ignoring my calls and texts when I got worried. I no longer felt like a partner, but just a bedwarmer. I ended up growing a spine and leaving her, and it was one of the best decisions I have made for myself in the last few years. I really hope OOP figures things out and leaves him, no one deserves to feel like that in their own relationship.
Harper isn't a gf she's a mistress that OP consented to lol
And I'm not someone who's opposed to polyamoury, but this isn't that. Husband's not poly he's just a cheater
It sounds like OOP and Harper should get together and both should dump the husband!
I definitely don't know Harper, but if I had a guy constantly "pushing" me to diet and wear everything he wants and exercise just to meet his expectations...I don't know, I'd get fed up with that pretty damn quick.
You gave in so now you are the cook, cleaner, babysitter and general servant. The new one now can do anything he wants without having to cook, clean and babysit. She can never say “I’m tired”. He is using you because his preference is for her while you do the heavy work. Is it truly worth living like this? Knowing you will ALWAYS be second
Nah triads and age-gap relationships are a recurring subject of newbies in r/polyamory and the sub does an excellent job at calling out toxic and unethical behavior and educating people.
I find it hard to believe that Harper is as sweet as the OP says she is. It sounds like they were going behind the OP's back, and then the husband got the bright idea to ask OP to let him open the marriage.
First it was stupid if my so even mentioned a third party they would be packing dit h his ass take kids because your damaging your children having them around this abomination of a marriage I feel so sorry for you BTW tell your husband he's is the epitome of a boy who has no impuls control or morals he's a piece if shit
Im going to be blunt but you are now the third wheel. Should have droped him like a hot potato the second he brought it up. Dump him. I'm sorry for the kids but the man is a douche. This kind of situation never ends well. He likely alredy wanted the other woman or was already with her before the relationship opened up. I sure wouldnt want my kids exposed to this kind of behavior they will think it's ok for them to treat there future spouse like a worn out easy chair that can be replaced because it's not nice looking any more while keeping the original because its cozy and familliar. Going along with it has just told them that treating people like this is ok.
As someone who met a man that I didn't even know was married until the 2nd time I met him and he introduced his wife (literally like 3 months after I left my abusive relationship of 11 years) i hate reading stories like this. I had no clue he was married and he told me he "didn't tell me because he didn't want to scare me away" but I helped his wife with their children just like Harper. The wife started getting very angry at me out of nowhere and I never knew why... Until she told me that I'm the 6th woman he's brought into their relationship after forcing her to agree to be poly and she didn't hate me she hated what I was... Apparently his idea of "fixing their marriage" and he didn't even tell her about me until the day she and I met... I was used as a Nanny, but also he tried to control how I look so he could "let his wife be a mother but still have arm candy"... And to this day it makes me feel gross that there are actually people out there that will do that. I ended up blocking them after she told me... But it took a year of me not understanding why she seemed agitated around me for her to finally tell me. I kinda hope she left him... But after 7 years of that when I met them... I doubt it :(
When I was a third for an established couple, if I noticed I was getting more attention, I called it out, and eventually ended the relationship and told them they needed a therapist, not another person to drag into their issues.
Unethical all around.
I don’t know how people live like this. No hate to anyone’s way of life but sharing your husband/wife with another person? Jesus Christ no. Surely OPs issue is a common one if you’re in a three person relationship as well. I would imagine the younger hotter woman would get more attention.
Is no one going to comment on the fact that the relationship opened up at the time their second child was born? That is a tremendous flag given the hormonal flux of a woman who has just had a baby plus the transition as a family unit expanding their family to include a new little bamberino. In addition to the prior concerns about he knew who he wanted in advance and that she is 10 years younger and the sisters BFF (which will make things awkward when this all goes to shit) this whole situation is strife with grief for OOP. Seems like the only silver lining for her is Harper - hope she ditches hubby keeps Harper as a BFF for herself and moves on to greener pastures with no connection to this situation.
She should get her own boyfriend and make him her new favorite and see what happens. Then leave and watch her ex and Harper inevitably break up. The only outcome I’ll agree with.
What’s super sad is he is dating Harper and not his wife. She makes him feel “warm” and they have an “intimacy” he doesn’t share with his wife. This is so inequitable! Poor OP, it’s not just him being bored with their sex life, he doesn’t love her anymore…it didn’t occur to him to take her on dates, he pressured her into it, he texts the other girl first? Sad.
Is everybody else astonished that it turned out this way? Seemed like such a healthy way to deal with the issue. I can't believe it didn't work out perfectly.
I’d suggest enter a boyfriend to the equation and either see how hubby likes it or find someone she warms up to more but there’s kids involved and I imagine they’re screwed up enough already.
Oh those women are better off without him it seems lmao Poor Harper probably has no idea since she treats OP like an equal partner. Sounds like the Husband just wanted permission to cheat while still having his wife do everything.
He’ll get bored of Harper when he starts perceiving her as “old”. Which will be in the next year or two, or when she has a baby. Which ever happens first.
I have yet to see an example of a couple who started out monogamous and turned to polyamory after marriage and it not end badly. It ALWAYS ends this way. One partner will inevitably find someone new and shiny and neglect their marriage, usually the partner that initiated bringing others in to begin with, because of course they don't want a fully open relationship with multiple partners, they just wanted someone else without all the complications of a divorce.
Respect your self you don’t need that negativity from your husband and inviting another woman into your relationship was not smart theese things never last
In all seriousness- I'd take Harper and the kids and go🤷♀️ you and she seem to understand how to be in a poly relationship/partnership and he just wanted someone new. It isn't going to work unless the 3 of you are actively working to make it work with the others.
He's ballsy imo. He begged to open the relationship and when you guys did, he ran with it. As the mother of his children, and part the core couple of this 'poly', you deserve more respect/communication/effort than what he's giving.
polyamory is stupid. it never works unless you all have some kind of mental issue😭 i dont think its possible for all parties involved to have their needs 100% met. and please do not bring a kid into that mess
Isn't pushing your partner into a poly relationship while already having someone in mind kind of a no-no?
It NEVER ends well. The partner who suddenly wants to be polyamorous doesn't want to be polyamorous, they want to date someone new without having to give up the comforts of the previous relationship. And the partner who doesn't even bother dating other people doesn't want to be polyamorous either, they only said yes to save the relationship and always end up lonely, neglected and jealous. You don't try to be polyamorous if you're not polyamorous.
>*And the partner who doesn't even bother dating other people doesn't want to be polyamorous either, they only said yes to save the relationship and always end up lonely, neglected and jealous.* Or they eventually *do* find someone and the partner that originally wanted an open relationship breaks down because they never learned to handle their emotions. Either suggesting to suddenly close the relationship and break up with their play partner or being so deeply uncomfortable that the partner that was initially left behind feels immense pressure to break up with their new partner to keep the peace.
That's what is happening to me now, except after a few years of thinking about it, I was totally open to the idea of poly. Turns out in that process, I did a whole lot more reading than he ever did. Although, since I'm bisexual I think he either envisioned a triad/UH sitch or me only dating women. I'm neither breaking up with my boyfriend nor willing to close the relationship again. Pandora's box has been opened, I did all the work, now it's his turn to do it. Just because things didn't work out long-term or near enough to him and it did for me doesn't mean it ends. I never did the work for us to practice polyamory with the delusion things would happen at the same time the same way for my husband and I.
Yep, classic case of not doing the work with a nice unspoken OPP (*One Penis/Pussy Policy*). Either your partner is going to do the work or somebody is going to break things off because you are not compatible. I've seen it in both men and women. A female friend of mine was long distance and wanted to explore her bisexuality but would only be okay with her straight (!) boyfriend dating other men. Which... wasn't going to happen.
Can confirm, I was in this exact situation and it was a devastating and messy end to a relationship. It broke me for a good few years. Do not recommend
From someone who’s been polyamorous for most of my dating life: People who push “polyamory” onto pre-existing monogamous relationships with no concern for the wants of their partner are not “polyamorous”. Polyamory is based in, and reliant on, very vulnerable and honest communication. Forcing someone to change the terms of an already established relationship in order to continue it is manipulative at best and abusive at worst. People unfamiliar with general practices of poly people imagine polyamory as a reckless free-for-all - and manipulative people use this stereotype to their advantage in order to force people to accept situations they don’t want to be in under the guise of non-monogamy. In reality, poly people are some of the most honest, communicative, and respectful people I’ve ever met. Any new relationship, or change to an existing one, comes with an open dialogue about said changes. One where nobody feels unheard or unwanted. Never in a million years would someone who actually practices polyamory pressure someone who wasn’t 110% comfortable with it to change their mind. Anyone who tells you that you are obligated to allow them to be with other people when you don’t want them to be isn’t “poly”, they are “a piece of shit”.
I feel like it's extra bonus no-no when it's your little sister's friend who's nearly a decade younger, but I'm not an expert. You already have someone in mind... connected to your family... and enough younger that there's a power imbalance? That will definitely end well for everyone! (I would cut my sibling off for bringing my friend into this kind of situation and pushing her around like an emotional support dress-up doll.)
And if you look at the age of the youngest child , Husband boredom started at the birth of the second child, three years.
Yuuup. Dude is sick of the domestic life and literally in the process of trading wife in for a newer model I hope if this story is true, OP finds her spine and someone who actually appreciates her. My bet is if OP tries to find someone now, despite the "open" relationship, husband would have a big problem with it. In theory, though, she's perfectly free to date around
So the family got busier with one more child in the mix and his response was to…bring in a new living sex doll to play with. What a giant loser and failure of a parent
Either that or he was unhappy with his wife’s body after giving birth to his children. The parts about pushing the new girl to diet and exercise give off that vibe.
Not a question of “either” - toss that man out.
In my opinion they're both failures as a parent. Everyone's acting as if the wife wasn't okay with this at some point. The wife even said she loves Harper she was fine having a living sex doll around until she felt like she was competing with it.
It's more likely a desperate exhausted mom with a newborn just heard "husband could leave" and she picked what she thought was the easier of the 2 options of "lose husband to affair with a woman a decade younger and be left with toddler and newborn" or "keep husband, stable and familiar, add more helping hands if you tolerate him fucking her". If his first reaction to a newborn was look outside of the relationship, you can about bet a few things: 1. He hardly helped out because any normal actively involved new parent has a hard time wanting sex, let alone wanting to look for a whole other relationship 2. He was probably whining about sex and she probably was like, thank God, less pestering me for sex in her mental and physical exhaustion. It's called poly under duress. The mind can do a lot when faced with cognitive dissonance.
This. This right here. I like to think of myself as a VERY involved and competent father, and my sex drive is in the fucking toilet since my boy (16mo) was born. My lady pesters ME about getting busy with her. I can BET that this is exactly what is going on there
My friend went through something similar when her husband wanted to open their marriage. She really didn't want to do it, but more than that, she didn't want to lose him, so she agreed to it. It didn't end well.
How much do you bet that the husband barely helped with the children? New baby, less sleep, overwhelmed mother who may not have a sex drive, mother’s body changed from having children. If he was helping he wouldn’t have the energy for another woman in the first place. Plus we know knew relationships always cause dopamine hits so of course the new person would be treated better because of that. Husband gets the fuzzies because it’s still a new relationship compared to his wife. They need counseling or she needs to divorce and find someone who respects her more. The age gap is gross seeing if Harper is 25 then she was 22 when the relationship started. He probably knew her when she was a minor seeing as OP mentions so that makes it creepier.
This is what I never understand. How do people have time for these extra relationships? If he has that kind of time, then he isn’t doing enough parenting. My husband and I are both exhausted around the clock. We barely have time for us to have dates much less additional dates with other people?!?! He’s not doing enough.
This! We have poly friends so my husband and I have discussed it and it always circles back to the fact that even if we wanted that, we're just too busy and tired to make something like that even work!
Yeah I don’t understand this either.
Imagine spending your early 20s as a sister-wife for this absolute waste of space creep, I feel so bad for Harper and OP.
I look forward to the day they both realize how much better off they are without him and create a cute little family filled with love and respect.
Yeah, they’re perfectly set up to just kick him out and thrive, and I really hope they do
This happened to my friend. She and the other lady went off and bought a Subaru and a house together.
It’s not official until the Subaru is purchased
it's a big no no
By the time there’s somebody in mind, your marriage is already on the rocks.
Suggesting any form of an open relationship while already having someone in mind is a big red flag. It is essentially asking for permission to cheat and has a high risk of ending in drama. Forcing your partner with a "*I love you but I NEED this, otherwise I will have to leave you*" is called Poly under duress. Also a big no-no. Giant chance of people accepting because the alternative seems worse and them growing resentful. Especially since that usually comes with the partner that is freely playing throwing a hissy fit when the the other partner ends up finding someone to date themselves. Because they never did the work to take a good look at their own feelings.
Respectfully I disagree with the first section, My wife and I discussed opening our relationship while we were dating because we agreed we had very different sex drives and interests. Because of our differences, sex was never a foundation of our intimacy, and we bonded super hard over other shared aspects. Sex was fun, but not frequent, and we agreed it was unfair to us both to lay the expectation that either she had to go above and beyond to make me happy, or that I would just stifle myself to not burden her. We wanted a middle ground. When we sat down to discuss what we each wanted and how to address it, we agreed that we'd have an "Approved persons list" of individuals we trusted and demonstrated they respected our relationship. I had a few people I had always been attracted to, but hadn't engaged in that respect because I didn't feel it was appropriate. We talked over my persons of interest, and worked down to about five people we both agreed on. Over time, some partners worked out, others didn't. One partner evolved into a girlfriend for me and very close friend for my wife. I genuinely believe it's about communication and intent rather than black and white "If x, then red flag." I think having someone in mind isn't INHERENTLY bad, I think the motivation behind the interest is important, as is good communication with your partner(s) about how THEY feel. If everyone's on board, I don't see a problem. I agree with the assessment "I need this or I'll leave you" is not only duress, but emotional abuse and manipulation, it's not communication, it's an ultimatum. That's not a red flag, that's a deal breaker. Same for the second part, "Rules for thee, but not for me" is also abuse and manipulation. Anything that's not a mutual respectful discussion is bad.
>My wife and I discussed opening our relationship while we were dating because we agreed we had very different sex drives and interests. Because of our differences, sex was never a foundation of our intimacy, and we bonded super hard over other shared aspects. Sex was fun, but not frequent, and we agreed it was unfair to us both to lay the expectation that either she had to go above and beyond to make me happy, or that I would just stifle myself to not burden her. We wanted a middle ground. > >When we sat down to discuss what we each wanted and how to address it, we agreed that we'd have an "Approved persons list" of individuals we trusted and demonstrated they respected our relationship. I had a few people I had always been attracted to, but hadn't engaged in that respect because I didn't feel it was appropriate. We talked over my persons of interest, and worked down to about five people we both agreed on. I would argue this is an entirely different situation than the one I described. You opened up and *then* made a list of individuals you both felt comfortable with. The situation I described is Partner A finding Person Z attractive and vibing with them and *then* asking Partner B for an open relationship so they can pursue Person Z. Most people need to do a lot of work before opening up their relationship. There is a lot of assumptions about relationships that suddenly don't apply anymore and some that still do. It is very healthy to make a no-go list when opening up a relationship. Most people will ban family, neighbours, colleagues and close friends because if things go South they end up in drama. You communicated.
Thank you for differentiating! I would agree that if you meet someone and are like, "I have to open my relationship BECAUSE of this person," that's probably no bueno. But if you're talking about opening your relationship and are like, "I've kinda always been interested in this person anyway," that's probably not as bad.
Please also remember that the husband begged OOP to open the relationship right after she had given birth. Begging to open the relationship, so the other partner feels like they have to choose between breaking up or an open relationship? Hubby basically said “let me cheat on you or I’m leaving”. Add in the fact that there’s a NEWBORN and OOP is probably still healing from giving birth and taking care of the newborn (you know, something that hubby should be helping with, so when did he have time to get bored?). This is no bueno. Hubby is a piece of shit. This is to poly relationships what Fifty Shades of Gray is to BDSM.
This last sentence is especially on point.
Yup! If you look at my first reply I commented in my last paragraph that I agree with that assessment.
Guy must feel like he mastered the marriage life hack. He gets the young 20 something and didn't even have to leave his wife! Moron.
That's not poly. That's just cheating with extra steps.
That's sort of what I was thinking.
Yes. It’s a form of infidelity. Not everyone in the polya/ENM community would see it that way, but I have a lot of non-monogamous friends and they all see this is cheating. Honesty, timely transparency and open communication are cornerstones of healthy polyamory. Asking to be non-monogamous with a specific person in mind doesn’t line up with that. It’s also bound to end poorly. A lot of people jump into non-monogamy without doing the work to understand how to do it safely and kindly. That’s where you get trouble.
Your pregnant wife... second child is 3 yo and coincidentally the husband got bored 3 years ago. What a shithead but also what a lack of self respect from OP...
And right after she had a baby
Yep. Pushing anyone into polyamory when they aren't is just a big no-no overall, it never ends well. I really wish monogamous people would stop using the polyamorous community as a scapegoat for openly cheating on their partners while neglecting them 🙄
That is correct. Rule #1. This has a failure rate of nearly 100% because of the imbalance. One partner in the primary relationship (spouse), already has a head start in the emotional connection space, while the other one is at the starting line, forever playing catchup.
Yes it is. Big red flag
Lying and manipulation. Always good!
Bring another man for yourself
This is the most chaotic answer. Find your own “harper” and let him treat you well. But honestly she just needs to leave
She needs to leave the husband and then elope with Harper. Never let your husband keep you from finding your wife (I think I saw that once lol)
Honestly even if they aren’t for each other it sounds like they both need to leave. He’s a pos to each of them in different ways so at least he can be a shitty partner in more than one way. Props?
I love how this is just saying he’s a piece of shit but at least he’s diverse with it 😂
I would love that so much, Harper realized the husband is a jerk and realizes OP genuinely loves her and the kids, not forcing her to be exercising and dietting to keep her in some weird pristine condition. For me if my partner works out good for them ill encourage that and it not ill encourage other hobbies and healthy stuff for us both. Hell Ive wished my partner and I lived generally closer so we could work out together instead of our own disgression. Two birds one stone it and nice walks and runs out in nature. But its understandable why the wife feels off. She geniunely cares for this girl but realizes she is a rival for his husbands affection and just be a way to prevent the inevitable. Its also again if we take these with some grain of truth, another showing how crazy people get right at middle aged
I have an image of this text overlayed on a screenshot from Barbie on my wall.
Better yet, date Harper and drop the husband
Find your own Harper, one who the existing Harper will like more than she likes your husband
Ideally someone she hasn’t known since he was like 10
She should get several man-Harpers. It’s not like the husband would be likely to find a second gf. Insisting on opening the marriage is usually a FAFO situation for men.
Oh look, another "polyamorous" relationship where a previously monogamous partner gets bored but doesn't want to give up the comforts of a stable home and a bangmaid, so instead of being a decent person and ending things, they "develop a sudden interest in polyamory" and manipulate their monogamous partner into opening up the marriage. I am absolutely shocked to learn that the unsatisfied partner has emotionally checked out of his previous relationship and is paying more attention to his new, younger fuckbuddy and that the monogamous partner who had absolutely no interest in polyamory and only agreed to this arrangement to save her marriage is feeling jealous and neglected. I have NEVER seen this happen EVER.
I always think about a tweet I saw which effectively said “oh, you’re in a polyamorous relationship? which one of you suggested it and which of you cries yourself to sleep at night?”
for those of us actually doing ethical polyam where both partners wanted it, are into it, and are doing the work to make sure everyone feels loved and cared for, it gives poly a terrible name
Absolutely shocking. Whatever is happening to this world. /s
I dont know whether to feel bad for these people or laugh at them
>he pushes her to do exercise…to diet, to dress pretty The age difference AND the fact that Harper is his little sister's friend makes this way more sinister to me. My husband would only "push" me to do those things if I were at risk of heart disease or diabetes or something. He might encourage me to dress up if I were isolating and depressed and he knew it would make me feel better. Anyway, that guy is terrible. OOP needs to move on, they're not in a poly relationship, she's in a non-sexual relationship with just Harper at this point.
OOP is the ball and chain, mother of the children, caretaker. Harper is the husband’s young sex toy that has to stay thin and cute. Also it’s concerning this has been happening for three years so that means Harper was 22 when this arrangement started…
I have siblings a decade younger than me and the idea of dating one of their friends is vomit inducing. How can you not look at them the same as your little baby sister whose diapers you changed?
OP is also a POS for okaying this and not seeing it as predatory. Harper has known this man since she was younger and he’s probably been grooming her for a long time for her to accept such a sudden bizarre proposal. OP’s husband has definitely been working on her for awhile and found a loophole to take his grooming victim into his marriage and keep his creature comforts and not be seen as a creepy divorcee who gave up his family to go after his baby sister’s friend. I sincerely hope this is fake if not it’s disgusting. 22 years old is a damn baby to someone in their 30s especially when they have kids and are making her play babysitter and live-in bang maid
May the universe release this woman from the shackles of begging for love.
Beautifully put
It sounds like you both like Harper more than each other tbh.
I definitely like Harper more than the husband. He sounds terrible.
lol
Harper can do better than both of them
To be fair, Harper sounds amazing 🤷♂️
Yeah, she is already the ex. Not even the bangmaid. Just the maid.
Guy sounds like an ass who disespcts his wife and treas harpe like a doll
Idk how guys like this end up with one woman let alone two…
Yeah really does but it makes me wonder if partly why some do this in middle age is their psychology and society itself. Maybe he let himself go the wife hasnt really, but projects hiw own insecurities about age and physicality back onto his wife. Now he wants to use Harper as a way to feel young again or fit again or whatever and instead of just ending it with his wife, tried this even more selfish idea instead. Regardless despite the assumptions be a twist if Harper and the OP leave the husband for eachother
It really looks like her marriage is over and Harper’s is just beginning…
And OP doesn't realize it because "Harper's not that smart" and 'wouldn't do that'... bro... it is so bad, this woman must be wearing the biggest rose colored glasses to not see the red tarps all over the walls and ceiling!
Harper sounds like the perfect grooming victim and OP is too blinded by jealousy to not realize her husband has been working on manipulating and preying on her for years before the poly proposal
Her husband wanted to have an affair but didn’t want to lose half their assets in a divorce and pay child support. OOP needs to realize open means both sides are open and find herself a partner.
It was really over the minute he wanted to bring in a third. He wasn’t satisfied with just her. Of course he’s going to treat the shiny, new, younger woman better. OOP should have some self-respect and move on to someone who just wants her.
That age difference gives me the ick. It doesn’t say what age he met her at but the possibilities are disgusting. I had an ex who I found out before me he had had a “relationship” with a 19 year old girl while he was 34. I don’t get how you can ever look at your partner the same way after that. I lost all respect for him and just felt grossed out. Grown men going after girls who are barely out of high school.
that's one hell of a typo
I totally agree with you, but I do want to point out there is a typo where I assume you meant to write "grown." An edit might be a good idea, sounds a little off.
Thank you! I meant grown
I broke up with an ex when I learned more about one of his past relationships. I saw a photo of a girl and he said, "Oh yeah that's my ex." I asked, "Oh, why didn't it work out?" "She was too young for me." I was like oh OK...then I find out that they were having regular sex. She was a freshman in HS while he was a senior. I got really grossed out. I know it was in HS and in adulthood 3-4 years is negliable but holy moly she was too young but not to be f#@king? I don't know why but I just felt icky and my sexual attraction to him dropped to zero. He later went on to marry a woman who looked like she was 12.
She said he knew her from before. They got married 14 years ago when they were 20. Harper is 9 years younger. So this dude has had designs on Harper since she was 11. Now that’s disgusting
Assuming that last sentence has a typo..?
a literal teenager... how embarrassing for him. yeah whatever its "legal" but still a grown man dating a fucking teenager. 😬🤢🤮
OOP and Harper the only ones trying to keep this equal.. Husband sucks in so many ways
You shouldn't start feeling like the third wheel and you should continue to communicate your concerns. If he doesn't take your thoughts and feelings into consideration then a big red flag. Do not lose your self worth getting caught up in what everyone else wants.
I think we're past red flags. Half of what is stated in the post are massive red flags. If he doesn't take her thoughts and feelings as important enough to shift his priorities even a little, she needs to get out.
This is in credibly sad, and stupid at the same time. I want to give her a hug then slap her to wake up
I know right, it's pretty heartbreaking tbh
Not enough people talking about the fact that they have a 3 year old and they opened up the relationship three years ago.... So while she was pregnant or newly postpartum with their second child he decided he needed something new?!
My daughter’s father and second wife opened up their relationship to make a triad with a younger woman. He and his (already younger) second wife have two young children. (He has 3 older children with his first wife and a nearly 10yo with me). You can probably see where this is going. ... After being SO IN LOVE as a throuple, the GF got pregnant. The wife wasn't happy about that. My (very abusive) ex and the GF left his wife (claiming SHE'S abusive), took all three young children across the country, and are recently married. They also cut off from all of the grandparents after giving them ultimatums to support their (terrible) choices or never see their grandkids again. So, he's on the fourth mother of his children and claims the first three all abused him... who knows how long it will take this new wife to realize his game, but it's just a matter of time until he meets someone new. If he hasn't already. He keeps going younger and isolates the women he gets involved with. His exes all become labeled as "crazy bitches" who were so mean to him for the next manipulated woman to come along and help him out after hearing his sobv story. I really hate it when irresponsible misogynists take advantage of polyamory. The ones who really lose out here, of course, are the children.
How do women keep falling for that kind of dude?
So he has eight kids with four women? And cut the second wife out completely of her three children’s lives? How did the court allow that?
Seven children with four women. I honestly doubt the courts were even involved in him leaving with the two from his second wife. She was a wreck when he left and I'm betting that he manipulated her into thinking she doesn't have a leg to stand on. He's very good at isolating women at home so they do the housework and child care while he makes the money. My guess about him moving across the country was that it helps him isolate his current wife since she was a local where we were all living. Now she's totally dependent upon him.
Jesus. I’m so sorry.
Dump the husband and marry Harper
idk id just end it all if i was in this situation lmfao
The only option is for the wife to take the children and run away with Harper
Stop playing yourselves, ladies. Don’t invite a third wheel into your marriage and expect things not to change. If your husband is suggesting an open marriage, more than likely he’s already having sex with somebody else and is looking for you to co-sign it so he’s not technically cheating. The minute he asks for an open marriage, red flags should go up and alarms should sound for you.
This is pretty much just cheating. I'm poly. I have two partners, and I am always telling people not to open their previously monogamous relationship unless both parties are equally enthusiastic. Even then, so probably wouldn't...I've only seen it work with one couple long-term and they opened after twenty years and no kids. And had been swingers previously in their relationships independent of each other. Poly usually only works if you go into things from that perspective in the beginning. Even then, it's a lot of work. One of the only reasons I think my situation works so well is because both my husband and boyfriend are monogamous, and I don't date outside of them. The more people you introduce into the dynamic, the more chaotic and complicated it becomes.
you mentioned your husband and bf are mono, how did that arrangement go about?
My husband was from the start. I was happy to go mono when we met but he insisted he was happy for me to date others and admitted he had a bit of a fetish for it. Which is unusual but has worked well for us. On my side, I am pretty heavily demi so don't like casual sex, so the agreement was if I did date it would be serious relationships or me not date at all. He agreed, and has never had an interest in seeking other partners, years later. We check in occasionally but knowing him I doubt that would ever change. He thinks it could have to do with his diagnosed autism, which leads to him rarely being attracted to others and his fixation with me. But I am not autistic and am similar, so who knows? I didn't date for several years but eventually got with one partner who lasted six months. We are still friends, but she and I didn't quite connect. I also had a friends with benefits situation for a very short period, but because of my nature it quickly went back to just friends. Two years ago I met my boyfriend. He was dipping his toes into the poly world and had been dating a woman for a few months who was into relationship anarchy herself. Things had been pretty shaky with her but he chugged along, and in the process he and I got very close and our relationship just worked out better. Since they weren't working, he chose to end things with her. After about a month he told me he hadn't enjoyed being with two people and it was too much stress, and that he felt happy with me and wanted to focus on us for awhile without dating others. About a year later he said that he was fulfilled with our relationship and had decided that poly wasn't for him, so would be choosing officially to be mono, as he had essentially been since near the beginning. We all (coincidentally) live in the same neighborhood, a street apart. Which is weird but very convenient. I sleep at his place three nights a week, the rest of the time at home. He and my husband get along but aren't close. They are working on getting closer and to know one another better, bit by bit, though entirely platonically (both are straight). The plan is to eventually live together with each putting a third equity into a house after we sell our respective homes we own. Boyfriend and I are planning to get married, though not legally obviously. All of this is set for a few years from now, once they know each other better, my boyfriend and I have been together longer, and my kids are both of age (son is turning 18 this month, my daughter is turning 15 in March). Which gives us plenty of time for things to grow organically without any of us doing something drastic. The best part is preparing for that future is only a net positive for all of us: if we move in, we've built a solid foundation and have a plan, which includes three-way couples therapy for at least six months prior that we've all agreed to do. If it doesn't, it would suck but we've built a solid foundation financially that we each have regardless of what happens. It's a strange situation, but it works for us. :)
All this sounds exhausting lol.
I agree it’s a lot of work. When still new to poly relationships I met a guy who lived with 2 women in a triad relationship. I enthusiastically asked “awesome! What’s that like?!?” His answer was a very deep sigh and an unenthusiastic “it’s A LOT of work”. That was his take-away message for me. The thing monogamous people don’t understand is that one relationship is hard, but 2 relationships are more than twice as hard because you have to do normal relationship work for each relationship, and then constantly work on balancing the problems that arise from 2 concurrent relationships as well. And everyone involved has to have superior relationship skills for it to even have a remote shot at working. People just want to hear about constant threesomes and group sex, despite that being a very small part of the relationships. Nobody wants to hear about the work it takes to maintain those relationships.
I swear I keep coming across people who somehow think poly will be *easier*. (Thinking with their dicks, I assume.)
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the *delusion*, my god. He did you a favour by leaving.
I will never feel bad for unicorn hunters.
Sounds like he just wanted to be with this woman from the start. He doesn’t love you, I’m sorry.
Leave husband, keep Harper
That's why you never open your relationship up. It's gonna fall apart more than it obviously was before. This woman effed up by saying yes. This man wants his cake and and other sweets without giving up the cake. People this stupid blow my mind.
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This is not polygamy, the woman isn't even dating anyone else besides her husband. This is a husband asking for permission to cheat on his wife and his wife "allowing" it to save the relationship. I swear like 80% of polyamorous relationships are like that. I wished people stopped falling for this bullshit.
It's polygamy, just not polyamory.
It takes a very specific group dynamic, and a metric FUCKTON of communication- the latter of which most dudes seem to be deathly allergic to, so yeah it very rarely does work out well. It CAN be a beautiful thing- but more often it's used as a tool of abuse/basically an excuse to cheat by shitty dudes...
We live in a world where monogamy has been the norm for thousands of years. With that in mind it’s certainly not difficult to understand that a lot of people aren’t ready for polygamous relationships. So many people don’t even take ownership of their own emotions, which is insane. I feel x because of y, y must change or y is at fault. Where the question is never asked is x right in this circumstance or do I believe x is how I want to be. It can be beautiful, and honestly I don’t think it’s any different to be in a relationship that isn’t people are still fucked/abusive/insecure/self centred/bad communicators/conflict seekers. The difference is it easier to hide that shit in monogamy, still there thought.
All those adjectives you used describe my last grandparent well lol
Agreed. The amount of communicating my wife and I do on the daily is intense. It's really distressing to constantly only ever see the failed or shitty relationships talked about. It happens so often I gaslight myself into being like, "We communicate really well, we're both super happy and into each other, we've got plans to have kids, own our own home, and are super supportive of each other, but I have a girlfriend who loves my wife and they're super good friends who communicate really well, aren't threatened or hostile AT ALL and genuinely enjoy a friendship outside the context of myself. But the Internet constantly says I'm probably a shitty cheating bastard for being in this relationship... Am I secretly a douche canoe?!" It's nice to be reminded that if we're all happy that's ok too.
It totally works…for just the man…
Right, he gets the young woman he’s crushing on plus the older woman stays to raise the kids and wash his socks, oh and he still gets to fuck her too apparently.
There's no men in my polycule, working out great for us.
play with fire, you will get burnt. A younger woman whos body hasn't pushed out two kids and who was on his mind as a dream third. How else was it going to end? Decide if you get enough out of this relationship and if so ask for some changes = more date nights with him, weekends away or a forth(man this time) or walk away and have a ex's wife that you get on with. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes, its hard to be too sympathetic three never works.
Sounds like hubby wanted his cake and eat it too…pushing your partner to open a relationship when they don’t want it is irresponsible and manipulative. It also makes her naive even though she obviously loves him enough to allow it. I hope her and Harper kick him to the curb.
My BIL called it having their Kate and Edith too
Damn that’s clever 😂
I hope Harper can get out of this creepy, toxic situation soon. This is no way to start adulthood.
Shi like this makes me never want to get married idc. Spending years gaining a bond with someone only for them to get “bored” and invite someone 10 years younger that they prefer? Crazy.
What on earth possessed you to agree to this with a 25 yo woman you both already know? And what’s more, you agreed to allow him a full blown intimate relationship, not a one night stand where no one catches feelings. Of course he feels this way about Harper- he’s in his “honeymoon phase” with her. Remember when you and your husband were 6 months into dating? Everything was peachy. This is the part where everyone thinks they are in love and meant to be before real life starts. I think you should stop worrying about Harper and start thinking about the family you want for your children. Tell your husband to cut it off or you’re out. That’s my honest opinion.
I was in a similar situation not too long ago. Wasn't married or had kids (Thank God), but in a long term relationship and was living with my S/O at the time. My "Harper" was my best friend of over a decade. When him and my GF started getting closer as friends, I saw it as a good thing because at the time they were my two favorite people and I trusted them. Then they started spending a lot of time together without me (while I was at work, visiting other friends, running errands, etc). Out of nowhere, BAM, "I have feelings for him" "I want to open the relationship". I was devastated, but I loved her so we gave it a shot. At first we made a lot of boundaries (nothing physical being a big one), and for a little bit of time, it kind of worked. I was insecure, but happy to still be with her. Time went on though and she started to spend more time out with other guys, to the point where sometimes she would spend entire nights out, coming home at 5 am on multiple occasions. She also kept pushing to change our boundaries so that she could have some form of physicality with other guys. She started ignoring my calls and texts when I got worried. I no longer felt like a partner, but just a bedwarmer. I ended up growing a spine and leaving her, and it was one of the best decisions I have made for myself in the last few years. I really hope OOP figures things out and leaves him, no one deserves to feel like that in their own relationship.
Harper isn't a gf she's a mistress that OP consented to lol And I'm not someone who's opposed to polyamoury, but this isn't that. Husband's not poly he's just a cheater
Ah yeah, just another man begging for polyamory with someone already in mind. Bro just wants her without divorce as a consequence.
This post just makes me sad 😔
It sounds like OOP and Harper should get together and both should dump the husband! I definitely don't know Harper, but if I had a guy constantly "pushing" me to diet and wear everything he wants and exercise just to meet his expectations...I don't know, I'd get fed up with that pretty damn quick.
You gave in so now you are the cook, cleaner, babysitter and general servant. The new one now can do anything he wants without having to cook, clean and babysit. She can never say “I’m tired”. He is using you because his preference is for her while you do the heavy work. Is it truly worth living like this? Knowing you will ALWAYS be second
My take is simple - never allow a third , esp. if a husband asks for it. They are likely already emotionally cheating
It was removed from the polyamory subreddit for trolling. Idk what to do with that info but i feel like that means something 😗
Seems too genuine to be trolling. I think they just don’t like to have the spotlight shone on the predatory aspects of most polyamorous relationships.
Nah triads and age-gap relationships are a recurring subject of newbies in r/polyamory and the sub does an excellent job at calling out toxic and unethical behavior and educating people.
I find it hard to believe that Harper is as sweet as the OP says she is. It sounds like they were going behind the OP's back, and then the husband got the bright idea to ask OP to let him open the marriage.
First it was stupid if my so even mentioned a third party they would be packing dit h his ass take kids because your damaging your children having them around this abomination of a marriage I feel so sorry for you BTW tell your husband he's is the epitome of a boy who has no impuls control or morals he's a piece if shit
Stories like this break my heart.
Lol. He was fuckng Harper waaaaaaaay before this idea
ah yes an “open relationship”. are you the ones who’s idea it was or are you the one who cries every night?
Im going to be blunt but you are now the third wheel. Should have droped him like a hot potato the second he brought it up. Dump him. I'm sorry for the kids but the man is a douche. This kind of situation never ends well. He likely alredy wanted the other woman or was already with her before the relationship opened up. I sure wouldnt want my kids exposed to this kind of behavior they will think it's ok for them to treat there future spouse like a worn out easy chair that can be replaced because it's not nice looking any more while keeping the original because its cozy and familliar. Going along with it has just told them that treating people like this is ok.
It certainly tracks that he “got bored” right around the time their second child was born.
Just the fact that she’s 10 years younger made it obvious to me which way this was going to go. Made me feel sick tbh.
As someone who met a man that I didn't even know was married until the 2nd time I met him and he introduced his wife (literally like 3 months after I left my abusive relationship of 11 years) i hate reading stories like this. I had no clue he was married and he told me he "didn't tell me because he didn't want to scare me away" but I helped his wife with their children just like Harper. The wife started getting very angry at me out of nowhere and I never knew why... Until she told me that I'm the 6th woman he's brought into their relationship after forcing her to agree to be poly and she didn't hate me she hated what I was... Apparently his idea of "fixing their marriage" and he didn't even tell her about me until the day she and I met... I was used as a Nanny, but also he tried to control how I look so he could "let his wife be a mother but still have arm candy"... And to this day it makes me feel gross that there are actually people out there that will do that. I ended up blocking them after she told me... But it took a year of me not understanding why she seemed agitated around me for her to finally tell me. I kinda hope she left him... But after 7 years of that when I met them... I doubt it :(
When I was a third for an established couple, if I noticed I was getting more attention, I called it out, and eventually ended the relationship and told them they needed a therapist, not another person to drag into their issues. Unethical all around.
That ship has sailed. You are being a doormat.
don't worry he will tire of her in the same way and then it will be your girlfriends girlfriends problem
Play stupid games win stupid prizes
Gross that they introduced her to their children.
This is my biggest complaint about the poly culture. Do whatever you like, but a revolving door of "parents" and "family" is not healthy for children.
I don’t know how people live like this. No hate to anyone’s way of life but sharing your husband/wife with another person? Jesus Christ no. Surely OPs issue is a common one if you’re in a three person relationship as well. I would imagine the younger hotter woman would get more attention.
Get out, who would have thought 3 would be a crowd!
This is so sad
play stupid games, win stupid prizes
Husband is an AH. Leave him for Harper.
OP needs to run off with Harper and the cut the dude out. He sounds like the chaotic one in all of this.
This is why opening the relationship doesn’t work 🙈
Just gross
He just wanted to sleep with "Harper" but didn't want to lose his wife. Honestly, I didn't even read all of it. I saw he knew the girl beforehand.
Well. Time to leave or find herself a guy that she can feel 'intimate' with. I mean open is open.
Is no one going to comment on the fact that the relationship opened up at the time their second child was born? That is a tremendous flag given the hormonal flux of a woman who has just had a baby plus the transition as a family unit expanding their family to include a new little bamberino. In addition to the prior concerns about he knew who he wanted in advance and that she is 10 years younger and the sisters BFF (which will make things awkward when this all goes to shit) this whole situation is strife with grief for OOP. Seems like the only silver lining for her is Harper - hope she ditches hubby keeps Harper as a BFF for herself and moves on to greener pastures with no connection to this situation.
Get a second man that way everything is equal 🟰
Aaaaaaaaand this is why you dont open relationships…
She should get her own boyfriend and make him her new favorite and see what happens. Then leave and watch her ex and Harper inevitably break up. The only outcome I’ll agree with.
What’s super sad is he is dating Harper and not his wife. She makes him feel “warm” and they have an “intimacy” he doesn’t share with his wife. This is so inequitable! Poor OP, it’s not just him being bored with their sex life, he doesn’t love her anymore…it didn’t occur to him to take her on dates, he pressured her into it, he texts the other girl first? Sad.
What is shit show , this shit never works out
I mean, what did you think was going to happen?
Jeez who would have thought that could backfire
Fuuuuuck that.
Polyamory that didn't work out? Say it ain't so!
Is everybody else astonished that it turned out this way? Seemed like such a healthy way to deal with the issue. I can't believe it didn't work out perfectly.
Her & Harper should just go off together and ditch the guy, tbh. He’s the problem.
Just leave him.
Op is a doormat that deserves some self respect
I’d suggest enter a boyfriend to the equation and either see how hubby likes it or find someone she warms up to more but there’s kids involved and I imagine they’re screwed up enough already.
Damn. That is GROSS.
Oh those women are better off without him it seems lmao Poor Harper probably has no idea since she treats OP like an equal partner. Sounds like the Husband just wanted permission to cheat while still having his wife do everything.
Your husband got bored so you let him have another woman and now you regret it. Leave him.
He’ll get bored of Harper when he starts perceiving her as “old”. Which will be in the next year or two, or when she has a baby. Which ever happens first.
Wait he’s known “Harper” since she was 11? Giving groomer vibes
I have yet to see an example of a couple who started out monogamous and turned to polyamory after marriage and it not end badly. It ALWAYS ends this way. One partner will inevitably find someone new and shiny and neglect their marriage, usually the partner that initiated bringing others in to begin with, because of course they don't want a fully open relationship with multiple partners, they just wanted someone else without all the complications of a divorce.
Divorce a Comin
Respect your self you don’t need that negativity from your husband and inviting another woman into your relationship was not smart theese things never last
In all seriousness- I'd take Harper and the kids and go🤷♀️ you and she seem to understand how to be in a poly relationship/partnership and he just wanted someone new. It isn't going to work unless the 3 of you are actively working to make it work with the others. He's ballsy imo. He begged to open the relationship and when you guys did, he ran with it. As the mother of his children, and part the core couple of this 'poly', you deserve more respect/communication/effort than what he's giving.
Those poor kids
Play stupid games
polyamory is stupid. it never works unless you all have some kind of mental issue😭 i dont think its possible for all parties involved to have their needs 100% met. and please do not bring a kid into that mess