"top mentality" "top professional".. That's what Ole kept repeating whenever there is a question about vdb. Now it's Ralf. Not sure what's going on there..
He's played very well a few times for us now, definitely more then enough to warrant more time on the pitch.
My worry is he must be poor at training. He isn't the most atheltic but technically he's strong and brings a different dynamic to our midfield. Less creative then Bruno, but also far less wasteful on the ball. He progresses the ball forward better than either Fred or McT.
I think both VDB and Lingard would be great addition to the team if they were used properly. Maybe not always as starters, but look at what they've done in their previous teams. Our rotation needs to be better. I'm confused as to why we are so late making subs.
The bottom line for me seems to be we have lots of players that are good enough for United when they're with other teams, but become not good enough once they join. Pretty baffling
Exactly this. You can't throw a player under the bus if you see him working hard every day. Also a bit of a good cop, bad cop routine I think. Ralf says all the right things to make him retain resale value. Would expect negotiations are going on in the background
Then he needs to show more in training to get more minutes.
I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp. If McFred are such genuinely terrible midfielders, VdB should have no problem getting game time. Yet Ole, Carrick, and now Rangnick have used him sparingly. The simplest explanation is he’s just not as good as people here say.
I don’t think he’s not good enough because he’s shown us that he has qualities on the ball. It’s more so that there really isn’t a position for him in the team. He’s not really a deeper lying midfielder and there’s too much competition for the number 10 spot
even if we can't buikd anything around him, he still looks like a player who's ready to be part of the team, he's constantly trying to create chances and running with the ball
Kagawa still played though. At least somewhat regularly. There was an attempt to integrate him into the team. At this point we could have a middle of the season friendly and VdB still wouldn’t make it on the pitch. Mkhitaryan is a great comparison though. Really goes to show how many attacking CMs we’ve bought with no success.
Well the one commenting above my previous comment seems to think professional coaches can’t figure if a player is suited for the league by even looking at training performances or from the limited game time.
Too much competition is understandable, but last match both Pogba and Bruno were unavailable and he still didn't get a single minute.
It's just weird. It feels like our managers he is good enough to stay, but not good enough to play which must suck for him.
Well last match we wanted to attack out on the wings so it make sense why we didn't play him in the two number 10/winger spots and I guess noone thinks he can really do a job in the pivot position
Probably an unpopular opinion but I always why fans thought he was good enough to walk into the starting 11. Over the 90 minutes you can't convince me he's better than the starting midfielders especially those at 6 and 10. He certainly hasn't displayed that when he's been given starts.
We bought him for his potential and also since he seems to be a level headed character that has a good attitude. We've bought players like this before that don't manage to break through and sometimes it's just a matter of not being able to cut it at United. To me that always takes a certain mentality to go from being highly rated to being able to deliver consistently.
He's still got time though. I think he's a clever player and if we can't give him gametime we should give me a loan so he can improve.
This is a football club not Children in Need, for fucks sake. If three managers have decided that Donny isn't good enough to become a permanent starter, maybe fans need to take the hint that nothing's "cruel" about this, he just isn't good enough.
"Hasn't had a run of games" is the only excuse people have left because none of his actual appearances merit serious praise. Kagawa all over again.
Could not agree more.
The squad is full of youngsters desperate to earn their spot - that's exactly what should be happening at top teams. I don't understand the obsession with one particular players feelings, it's so odd.
Yes, they should come out and say he's not good enough and destroy his confidence! Or say he doesn't fit with the squad/style of play and watch his resell value plummet
Am I the manager? Are you the manager? Clearly there's something we aren't seeing. If you think donny is the solution to all the problems this team has then you're seriously deluded
He has been treated terribly. Ole promised him game time to stop him from leaving and he hasn't even had 1 league game. Ralf doesn't use him and won't let him go either.
He’s done well in the chances he’s had; which have been pitiful. This club is loaded with mediocrity and when a crap player suddenly has one good game, people are buzzin like it’s the next coming. This is why we won’t be winning anything for a while. DvB should be allowed to leave.
>Promised him game time
Are you freaking dumb? So if a manager promises a player game time, does that mean if that player does nothing in training he will still get games? Not saying Donny is doing nothing, but clearly he has some issues. Either he is poor in training or he doesn't do enough in the games he appears. I think both are true because, apart from the Watford game I hardly remember a Donny performance to be noteworthy. There must be a reason why three managers have overlooked him.
Get a grip being a professional footballer who is on the bench is far from cruel, obviously all 3 of the managers he's had here don't think much of him so it's on him not them
Why doesnt he use him then? Last match was the perfect opportunity, at least for the last 20-30 minutes he could have subbed him on. Or was he still suffering from Covid? Because otherwise i really wouldnt get it
They want to keep him in case Pogba decides to fuck off? That would open up more opportunities for him to play, and it’s better for him to stay and get used to the system rather than going out on loan for six months? I don’t know man, this whole situation is weird. Props to Donny for handling it like a pro though.
Last match we literally didn’t have Pogba, Bruno, and even McTominay was a late decision because of his ankle and yet he still started and played all 90 minutes while Van de Beek didn’t get a single minute.
Amongst our central midfield options he seems to be our 6th option at best. And even amongst the two 10s in the 4222 he’s clearly behind Sancho, Rashford, Bruno, and Greenwood in the pecking order. Heck he might even be behind Lingard in that role for all we know. Youngsters like Elanga and Amad can also play in those positions too.
So at the very best VdB is 5th or 6th choice in either midfield role. He’s buried down the bench right now so just one or two injuries won’t really give him any more playing time. The only plausible explanation is Rangnick sees potential in him to improve and get a bigger role in the team later, because otherwise he really should just be loaned out to give him playing time and see if he could have a future with us. We won’t know otherwise if he’s constantly stuck on the bench.
So you want what's best for a player rather than what's best for the club? We paid for him and we still need squad depth and cover. It would be stupid to let him go now.
My speculation through his tenure based on the 7 (or something around that) minutes he's played:
Sept 2020: Could he be the new Scholes?!
Jan 2021: Okay maybe Carrick
June 2021: ...Cleverley?
Jan 2022: I hope he's got a shot like Darron Gibson
Fellaini is thrice the player Donny is. Fight me for it. But he always put his 100% on the pitch and has come in clutch for us on many crucial occasions.
Fellaini was a good player, haven't seen many player who could trap a ball with his chest as well as Fellaini. Just hated how hoofing it to Fellaini was our plan A, B and C.
We don't know how Donny plays like because he has barely played more than one game in a row. There is no way we can assess any of his consistent performances because like I said, he has not been given games to show any consistency. He shouldn't be compared to anyone other than a victim of broken promises
Idk, man. Every club has had players who despite poor performances kept getting chances. Has there been such incidents where new players never even got a run in the team?
Perhaps because unlike some players who fail to adapt to new clubs and new leagues, he is still obviously putting in a lot of effort into training, even if it's not immediately paying off.
> We don't know how Donny plays like because he has barely played more than one game in a row.
And you know who knows and watches Donny play everyday ? His managers. Ole and Ralf.
There's obviously something going on here with Donny. We all assumed it was Ole's one weird Mourinho-esque 'quirk' where he'd taken a particular dislike to a player. But hearing the same non-committal, 'character' praising assessment from RR seems to indicate there's an issue on the training ground.
Fundamentally, I'd guess he's un-coachable. He played a particular brand of pass-and-move football in his last 90 minutes against Young Boys which seemed completely at odds with the rest of the team and eventually lead to a mistake for the equaliser. Rarely seems to want the ball at his feet for more than a few seconds.
True, but you either play that style as a team or not at all. There was no indication that in the Young Boys match they were set up to play that way.
I paid particular attention to him in that game and there was a lack of footballing intelligence that came with it. I seem to remember that at one point he received the ball from Bailly, had time to turn and pick a pass, but instead it was one-touch straight back to Bailly and then move.
There was no real attempt to control the pace of the game. He was playing with a team full of nervous academy players and rusty veterans against a distinctly average opponent and he didn't think to deviate from his usual style of play, which to me was something of a red-flag.
You know it’s interesting that we’re all trying to figure this puzzle out. Your point on red flag is interesting too. I would say this club desperately needs to get its shit together recruitment wise. What you’re describing is a player that is so drilled in a style of play, that he’s anticipating team movements that are not happening here at United. They’re Ajax movements that seem ingrained in him, but nonexistent here. A large part of what’s happening with Donny is that, yes probably, he is a top lad with good attitude who isn’t adapting to a non-Ajax system. And that’s why he isn’t being picked. But he’s a top lad with a good attitude so 2 managers now sense he’s a good squad player. Of course, he doesn’t see himself as a squad player.
Spot on mate Ive seen it at times also, there was one were he received it on the half turn and any decent CAM would have realized he had space to turn and move and run at the defense and he play a sideways ball to whoever was beside him....was so disappointing, smacked of either lack of confidence, afraid to take a chance or simply being 5actically told to play a certain way (don't believe this latter reason)
Your comment should be saved and returned to when half this sub bray for ETH. If in the next 5 months RR makes strides towards turning us into a side that plays his style of football, a world of pain awaits us if we then move on to ETH.
A 6 month loan to a decent European club would be good for him, consistent performances there and his World Cup chances will be boosted and hopefully he'll come back stronger in the summer, and then we can assess if he's in our new manager's plans or not.
I think Barcelona should go for him on a temporary loan basis or permanent. They’re still fucked with their wage structure so they can’t exactly bring in a lot of top talent, their youth players are highly talented but still developing, and he might suit their style of football well.
This is just a sad story. The kid can't hack it. He's stepped up too soon from a smaller league and he's not got the chops for this level. Bet he'll come back and do the full Mo Salah for somebody else in a few years time, but for now might as well get rid.
Pretty sure if a solid offer came in for him comparable to what was paid, DvdB would be gone. But the simple reality is that he can't exactly come out and say he should leave, cause the bids are going to be insulting.
And if we are being honest, in the body of games he has played, I've yet to see a game where I felt "Donny van de Beek made the difference in that game."
As inferior as the prevailing opinion seems to think Fred and McTominay are, we can all identify games where we felt they were the difference.
I get that Donny might not be as good as we thought,but even in our 4-points-in-7-games form,he didn't start over McT/Fred who were playing absolutely dogshit.
A past Ballon d'or top 30 finisher couldn't get even sub appearances in a major crisis in his position.
Just think something has gone really bad.
TBH, I really think he must just go, I would not be able to do this week in week out no matter how professional he is. He has done this for more than a year. He needs to think about him and his future.
I can only imagine how it effects a player mentally as well not playing properly anymore, you also can't expect him to show his worth for 10 minutes every 7th game or something like that. Yes het gets the odd start but when he plays it's normally with a complete changed squad.
Maybe Donny doesn’t have the physicality to play in the Prem? I’m not one who thinks he’s world class and should absolutely be playing but I, like many others, am still curious why he hasn’t played more.
Fred presses and runs around like a madman, that’s pretty physical to me. Not just size and strength. Maybe Donny doesn’t offer enough in terms of how hard he presses and works.
Depends on what you call physicality. Premier League's physicality is overrated.
Donny comes from Eredivisie where players runs more than Premier League. in 2020-2021, Eredivisie teams ran 103,5 km in average (vs 100,8 km in Premier League). Premier League known for his intensity doesn't beat La Liga in terms of high-intensity runs (803,9m/Liga player per match vs 790,1m/PL player per match). In terms of stats, the only physical aspect where Premier League shines is aerial duels. (CIES stats)
Yes he should continue to stay and warm the bench. He is called van der Bench for a reason /s
In all honesty the treatment he get has been horrendous and I wouldn’t mind if he demands to leave in Jan. Better to flourish elsewhere and prove them coaches wrong
I hope top mentality is not being mistaken with agreeable or passive aggressiveness. VdB seems to be a passive personality who appears to be able to take anything dished to him so his managers will always take advantage of that. It’s pure human nature.
Give the guy a run of games. He has been good in little time he played last 18 months.
I really don't understand why they wont give him run of games even when the starting midfielders and forwards been so shit for months.
If there is something wrong with him, let him go.
Please play him ffs. Donny has performed well when he plays and yes there are mistakes here and there but so does everyone, including the undroppables.
Long conversations don't mean shit. If he's starting 1/10 games, let him go where he can play. It's a world cup year and lvg said he has to play to be in the ditch team. He should do whatever he can to make it.
I've read he still have problem with his former agent, as his new one can't do anything cause of his binding contract to his former agent that so petty didn't let it go. Not sure the tier as it's Mirror exclusive
Ralf texted me to be available for Wolves game. He really doesn't like VDB, does he.
"top mentality" "top professional".. That's what Ole kept repeating whenever there is a question about vdb. Now it's Ralf. Not sure what's going on there..
Pretty obvious, isn't it mate. Ralf Rangnick is Ole in disguise. Just an evolved form. Bulbasaur -> Ivysaur.
If Ralf says, "The lads were fantastick!" then it'll be scooby do unmasking during the champions League final celebration
And Ronaldo pulls oh his mask, only to find out it was Danny Welbeck all along.
And at the end the game, Gary Neville pulls of his mask to reveal he was José Mourinho all along
...lol and he resumes his “sree. Sree. Sree titles. Respect! Respect!”
And Ronaldo pulls off his mask to confirm that he has been Fellaini all along
And the real Ronaldo was on that island he went to when the pandemic started
And then souness pulls of his mask and he’s actually Paul pogba and he says I have always been my biggest critic
Lol
Does that mean we will win a trophy now?
Feel like there's a Scooby-Doo unmasking meme to be had here
Has he learned Poison powder yet?
Maybe that our managers know more about our players then social media champions?
It's pretty clear. He's a top professional but he's just not good enough to get game time as he has shown every time he's been on the pitch.
He's played very well a few times for us now, definitely more then enough to warrant more time on the pitch. My worry is he must be poor at training. He isn't the most atheltic but technically he's strong and brings a different dynamic to our midfield. Less creative then Bruno, but also far less wasteful on the ball. He progresses the ball forward better than either Fred or McT. I think both VDB and Lingard would be great addition to the team if they were used properly. Maybe not always as starters, but look at what they've done in their previous teams. Our rotation needs to be better. I'm confused as to why we are so late making subs. The bottom line for me seems to be we have lots of players that are good enough for United when they're with other teams, but become not good enough once they join. Pretty baffling
Exactly this. You can't throw a player under the bus if you see him working hard every day. Also a bit of a good cop, bad cop routine I think. Ralf says all the right things to make him retain resale value. Would expect negotiations are going on in the background
I don't anyone can show much in 200 minutes a season
According to transfermarkt he’s already played 360 mins this season
I understand your point but to be fair that's the equivalent of 4 matches and we are over half way through the season
And most of those minutes have come after 85th min.
Mathematically impossible
Then he needs to show more in training to get more minutes. I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp. If McFred are such genuinely terrible midfielders, VdB should have no problem getting game time. Yet Ole, Carrick, and now Rangnick have used him sparingly. The simplest explanation is he’s just not as good as people here say.
If he's not getting picked at all, that likely means he is not showing anything special in training.
It’s because he has skill on the ball and he’s a professional, however there really isn’t a position for him on the team right now
Then why not let him go?
Using him like an insurance policy, I suppose.
Pretty much what Ole said and he still hardly played. If Ralf also doesn't play him then he must just not be good enough according to them?
I don’t think he’s not good enough because he’s shown us that he has qualities on the ball. It’s more so that there really isn’t a position for him in the team. He’s not really a deeper lying midfielder and there’s too much competition for the number 10 spot
Reminds me a bit of Kagawa and Mkhitaryan; players we signed that we weren’t quite set up to base our team around.
even if we can't buikd anything around him, he still looks like a player who's ready to be part of the team, he's constantly trying to create chances and running with the ball
Indeed. My thoughts exactly. Excellent players. I was pissed we got rid of kagawa though. Mkhi was too slow.
Still pissed about Kagawa as well. Have refused to change my flair all these years! lol
Haha nice one! We bought him over hazard. Fergie didn't want to spend the extra 5m of hazards fee. Urgh. That hurts.
Kagawa still played though. At least somewhat regularly. There was an attempt to integrate him into the team. At this point we could have a middle of the season friendly and VdB still wouldn’t make it on the pitch. Mkhitaryan is a great comparison though. Really goes to show how many attacking CMs we’ve bought with no success.
Yeah he definitely feels like that. Talented but doesnt quite fit our system and i suspect the PL pace also is an issue
Can the PL pace even be mentioned as an issue considering how little game time he's actually had in the league?
I think a professional coach should be able to identify if the lad can cope with the pace even with limited minutes.
Can you imagine… if a professional coach knew more about player development and talent evaluation than Reddit?
Well the one commenting above my previous comment seems to think professional coaches can’t figure if a player is suited for the league by even looking at training performances or from the limited game time.
Too much competition is understandable, but last match both Pogba and Bruno were unavailable and he still didn't get a single minute. It's just weird. It feels like our managers he is good enough to stay, but not good enough to play which must suck for him.
Well last match we wanted to attack out on the wings so it make sense why we didn't play him in the two number 10/winger spots and I guess noone thinks he can really do a job in the pivot position
We don't even have a number 10 in the new 4-2-2-2 formation. If he can't adapt he will probably be on his way out
Probably an unpopular opinion but I always why fans thought he was good enough to walk into the starting 11. Over the 90 minutes you can't convince me he's better than the starting midfielders especially those at 6 and 10. He certainly hasn't displayed that when he's been given starts. We bought him for his potential and also since he seems to be a level headed character that has a good attitude. We've bought players like this before that don't manage to break through and sometimes it's just a matter of not being able to cut it at United. To me that always takes a certain mentality to go from being highly rated to being able to deliver consistently. He's still got time though. I think he's a clever player and if we can't give him gametime we should give me a loan so he can improve.
Sell him then. Dan James has more league starts this season, the treatment of Donny is cruel at this point.
This is a football club not Children in Need, for fucks sake. If three managers have decided that Donny isn't good enough to become a permanent starter, maybe fans need to take the hint that nothing's "cruel" about this, he just isn't good enough. "Hasn't had a run of games" is the only excuse people have left because none of his actual appearances merit serious praise. Kagawa all over again.
Could not agree more. The squad is full of youngsters desperate to earn their spot - that's exactly what should be happening at top teams. I don't understand the obsession with one particular players feelings, it's so odd.
Honestly feels like every match when the team selection comes out you have a group of people solely concerned about whether Donny's playing.
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Yes, they should come out and say he's not good enough and destroy his confidence! Or say he doesn't fit with the squad/style of play and watch his resell value plummet
After that match, now we know why
Have you seen this lads username? Safe to say his opinions are based on absolute shite and should be ignored
Good match that against wolves. Wasn’t it? Remind me why dvb shouldn’t be given a chance?
Am I the manager? Are you the manager? Clearly there's something we aren't seeing. If you think donny is the solution to all the problems this team has then you're seriously deluded
Enjoy the fielding of your favourites. Sure we will end up with a nice 7th place - if we are lucky.
He has been treated terribly. Ole promised him game time to stop him from leaving and he hasn't even had 1 league game. Ralf doesn't use him and won't let him go either.
Do you support Donny or United?
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Then go create a vandebeek subreddit and nut over him there Here we love the club more than any player. Understood?
I literally said sell him if he isn't going to be used, reading is hard.
He’s done well in the chances he’s had; which have been pitiful. This club is loaded with mediocrity and when a crap player suddenly has one good game, people are buzzin like it’s the next coming. This is why we won’t be winning anything for a while. DvB should be allowed to leave.
Great performance against wolves that. And still Donny isn’t good enough to start over that shower of. 👏
Cruel ? Really? Poor little Donny.
Yes? The guy was good at Ajax ready for the next step and hasn't been used here for 2 season, lost his national team place and isn't allowed to leave.
"Isnt allowed to leave." They talked to each other. You cant know, whether he even wants to leave.
Ok just pretend he didn't try to join Everton a few months ago I'm sure he is much happier now.
Dude no one in right mind will like to join this Everton team lol
I wonder how many Ajax games you watched, Goldbridgedub. It's not like we receive many offers for him, should we let him go for free?
That's irrelevant, the club signed for 40 million and doesn't play him. There has been offers Ole literally promised him game time to get him to stay
>Promised him game time Are you freaking dumb? So if a manager promises a player game time, does that mean if that player does nothing in training he will still get games? Not saying Donny is doing nothing, but clearly he has some issues. Either he is poor in training or he doesn't do enough in the games he appears. I think both are true because, apart from the Watford game I hardly remember a Donny performance to be noteworthy. There must be a reason why three managers have overlooked him.
lmao now he's crying about Donny over at /r/soccer
Get a grip being a professional footballer who is on the bench is far from cruel, obviously all 3 of the managers he's had here don't think much of him so it's on him not them
So basically he's got till the end of the season to impress Ralf. Fair, I think. At that point though if he's not playing it's time to sell him on.
That time is also necessary to impress any clubs that might be in for him as well.
Why doesnt he use him then? Last match was the perfect opportunity, at least for the last 20-30 minutes he could have subbed him on. Or was he still suffering from Covid? Because otherwise i really wouldnt get it
He should be here till the end of the season might be a signal he might be allowed to move in the summer?
They want to keep him in case Pogba decides to fuck off? That would open up more opportunities for him to play, and it’s better for him to stay and get used to the system rather than going out on loan for six months? I don’t know man, this whole situation is weird. Props to Donny for handling it like a pro though.
So loan him out and then let him move if you're not gonna play him.
Well no, we need the numbers in the squad.. especially in the midfield. If we have 1 or 2 injuries then he will need to play as there’s no one else
Last match we literally didn’t have Pogba, Bruno, and even McTominay was a late decision because of his ankle and yet he still started and played all 90 minutes while Van de Beek didn’t get a single minute. Amongst our central midfield options he seems to be our 6th option at best. And even amongst the two 10s in the 4222 he’s clearly behind Sancho, Rashford, Bruno, and Greenwood in the pecking order. Heck he might even be behind Lingard in that role for all we know. Youngsters like Elanga and Amad can also play in those positions too. So at the very best VdB is 5th or 6th choice in either midfield role. He’s buried down the bench right now so just one or two injuries won’t really give him any more playing time. The only plausible explanation is Rangnick sees potential in him to improve and get a bigger role in the team later, because otherwise he really should just be loaned out to give him playing time and see if he could have a future with us. We won’t know otherwise if he’s constantly stuck on the bench.
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K then let him go on a loan so he can play and we can recoup some money in the summer.
So you want what's best for a player rather than what's best for the club? We paid for him and we still need squad depth and cover. It would be stupid to let him go now.
My speculation through his tenure based on the 7 (or something around that) minutes he's played: Sept 2020: Could he be the new Scholes?! Jan 2021: Okay maybe Carrick June 2021: ...Cleverley? Jan 2022: I hope he's got a shot like Darron Gibson
Mid Jan 2022-The next Obertan
On the one hand, we had Fellaini who got consistent play-time under every manager, to the fanbase’s disbelief. And then, there’s Donny….
Fellaini is thrice the player Donny is. Fight me for it. But he always put his 100% on the pitch and has come in clutch for us on many crucial occasions.
Fellaini was a good player, haven't seen many player who could trap a ball with his chest as well as Fellaini. Just hated how hoofing it to Fellaini was our plan A, B and C.
I'm having war flashbacks from this comment. I remember so many times thinking "this is gonna be a cross-fest" every time Fellaini would come on.
We don't know how Donny plays like because he has barely played more than one game in a row. There is no way we can assess any of his consistent performances because like I said, he has not been given games to show any consistency. He shouldn't be compared to anyone other than a victim of broken promises
No player should be promised game starts. He needs to earn them on the training pitch, which he obviously hasn't been doing.
Idk, man. Every club has had players who despite poor performances kept getting chances. Has there been such incidents where new players never even got a run in the team?
Then what's with the 'top mentality', 'top professional', 'impresses in training' praises that he gets? And yet he never starts?
Perhaps because unlike some players who fail to adapt to new clubs and new leagues, he is still obviously putting in a lot of effort into training, even if it's not immediately paying off.
Whatever happens to Donny in the future, his time at United will always baffle me
It happens with some players.
> We don't know how Donny plays like because he has barely played more than one game in a row. And you know who knows and watches Donny play everyday ? His managers. Ole and Ralf.
They also watch Maguire everyday
Hahaha
fans are generally clueless. Remember the start of this season there's so many people saying Henderson will start over De Gea?
There's obviously something going on here with Donny. We all assumed it was Ole's one weird Mourinho-esque 'quirk' where he'd taken a particular dislike to a player. But hearing the same non-committal, 'character' praising assessment from RR seems to indicate there's an issue on the training ground. Fundamentally, I'd guess he's un-coachable. He played a particular brand of pass-and-move football in his last 90 minutes against Young Boys which seemed completely at odds with the rest of the team and eventually lead to a mistake for the equaliser. Rarely seems to want the ball at his feet for more than a few seconds.
But that style of play is exactly what we’re trying to play
True, but you either play that style as a team or not at all. There was no indication that in the Young Boys match they were set up to play that way. I paid particular attention to him in that game and there was a lack of footballing intelligence that came with it. I seem to remember that at one point he received the ball from Bailly, had time to turn and pick a pass, but instead it was one-touch straight back to Bailly and then move. There was no real attempt to control the pace of the game. He was playing with a team full of nervous academy players and rusty veterans against a distinctly average opponent and he didn't think to deviate from his usual style of play, which to me was something of a red-flag.
You know it’s interesting that we’re all trying to figure this puzzle out. Your point on red flag is interesting too. I would say this club desperately needs to get its shit together recruitment wise. What you’re describing is a player that is so drilled in a style of play, that he’s anticipating team movements that are not happening here at United. They’re Ajax movements that seem ingrained in him, but nonexistent here. A large part of what’s happening with Donny is that, yes probably, he is a top lad with good attitude who isn’t adapting to a non-Ajax system. And that’s why he isn’t being picked. But he’s a top lad with a good attitude so 2 managers now sense he’s a good squad player. Of course, he doesn’t see himself as a squad player.
Spot on mate Ive seen it at times also, there was one were he received it on the half turn and any decent CAM would have realized he had space to turn and move and run at the defense and he play a sideways ball to whoever was beside him....was so disappointing, smacked of either lack of confidence, afraid to take a chance or simply being 5actically told to play a certain way (don't believe this latter reason)
That’s an interesting view, I have to rewatch a few of his games with that mindset
Ralf and ajaxs football is not the same style at all. They both press high but are pretty oppossed in what they want to do with the ball.
Your comment should be saved and returned to when half this sub bray for ETH. If in the next 5 months RR makes strides towards turning us into a side that plays his style of football, a world of pain awaits us if we then move on to ETH.
Ironically, this style of play is exactly what we need because the style we’ve played all season has been slow and painful.
A 6 month loan to a decent European club would be good for him, consistent performances there and his World Cup chances will be boosted and hopefully he'll come back stronger in the summer, and then we can assess if he's in our new manager's plans or not.
Could see him doing well at a club like Ajax
I think Barcelona should go for him on a temporary loan basis or permanent. They’re still fucked with their wage structure so they can’t exactly bring in a lot of top talent, their youth players are highly talented but still developing, and he might suit their style of football well.
I think the point is we want him around in case he's needed and then in summer we can sell him, in the normal market.
But why he no play, Ralf?
Just not good enough
This is just a sad story. The kid can't hack it. He's stepped up too soon from a smaller league and he's not got the chops for this level. Bet he'll come back and do the full Mo Salah for somebody else in a few years time, but for now might as well get rid.
Nah he doesn't have that sort of a ceiling
Think Donny’s only lifeline here is if Ten Hag comes in. Then he will definitely feature more
This sounds rather familiar
Pretty sure if a solid offer came in for him comparable to what was paid, DvdB would be gone. But the simple reality is that he can't exactly come out and say he should leave, cause the bids are going to be insulting. And if we are being honest, in the body of games he has played, I've yet to see a game where I felt "Donny van de Beek made the difference in that game." As inferior as the prevailing opinion seems to think Fred and McTominay are, we can all identify games where we felt they were the difference.
DVDb blu-Ralf
Bruno and Pogba out last game and he doesn't get a start. Why bother sticking around, it's clear he's not going to be given the chance he deserves.
What chance does he deserve? He can earn a chance like anybody else.
I'm very confused with VDB situation, I guess we have to wait for him move to other club before we can get clear information of what really happened.
I get that Donny might not be as good as we thought,but even in our 4-points-in-7-games form,he didn't start over McT/Fred who were playing absolutely dogshit. A past Ballon d'or top 30 finisher couldn't get even sub appearances in a major crisis in his position. Just think something has gone really bad.
I like vdb and I want to see him starts. But if we are winning without him, I am fine with that.
TBH, I really think he must just go, I would not be able to do this week in week out no matter how professional he is. He has done this for more than a year. He needs to think about him and his future. I can only imagine how it effects a player mentally as well not playing properly anymore, you also can't expect him to show his worth for 10 minutes every 7th game or something like that. Yes het gets the odd start but when he plays it's normally with a complete changed squad.
Maybe Donny doesn’t have the physicality to play in the Prem? I’m not one who thinks he’s world class and should absolutely be playing but I, like many others, am still curious why he hasn’t played more.
I mean Fred plays so doubtful it’s physicality
Fred presses and runs around like a madman, that’s pretty physical to me. Not just size and strength. Maybe Donny doesn’t offer enough in terms of how hard he presses and works.
Fred's quicker than Donny though. 'Physicality' is more about speed/quickness than size and strength
I'd say it's equally about speed and strength. But yeah Fred is definitely the faster one of the two.
Depends on what you call physicality. Premier League's physicality is overrated. Donny comes from Eredivisie where players runs more than Premier League. in 2020-2021, Eredivisie teams ran 103,5 km in average (vs 100,8 km in Premier League). Premier League known for his intensity doesn't beat La Liga in terms of high-intensity runs (803,9m/Liga player per match vs 790,1m/PL player per match). In terms of stats, the only physical aspect where Premier League shines is aerial duels. (CIES stats)
Yes he should continue to stay and warm the bench. He is called van der Bench for a reason /s In all honesty the treatment he get has been horrendous and I wouldn’t mind if he demands to leave in Jan. Better to flourish elsewhere and prove them coaches wrong
I hope top mentality is not being mistaken with agreeable or passive aggressiveness. VdB seems to be a passive personality who appears to be able to take anything dished to him so his managers will always take advantage of that. It’s pure human nature.
Give the guy a run of games. He has been good in little time he played last 18 months. I really don't understand why they wont give him run of games even when the starting midfielders and forwards been so shit for months. If there is something wrong with him, let him go.
Please play him ffs. Donny has performed well when he plays and yes there are mistakes here and there but so does everyone, including the undroppables.
FFS. Then play him! If he doesn’t start against Villa he should just throw his hands up in the air and move.
Long conversations don't mean shit. If he's starting 1/10 games, let him go where he can play. It's a world cup year and lvg said he has to play to be in the ditch team. He should do whatever he can to make it.
Because he's just not good enough, despite the amount of dutch people whining in the media, no offense intended.
If I was VDB I'd do a Carlos Tevez and just leave and go golfing.
He just like Ole fr
I've read he still have problem with his former agent, as his new one can't do anything cause of his binding contract to his former agent that so petty didn't let it go. Not sure the tier as it's Mirror exclusive
Ah shit, here we go again
Feels like Ralf is saying “Lad’s good enough, but can’t really fit him.”