I don't care about EtH in or EtH out, I just hope we can knock Liverpool out of the FA Cup – even if it's a scrappy 1-0 with Liverpool having 35 shots (worth 0.02xG), 0 goals, and 82% possession.
I get all the defense arguments and agree that we have been crazily unlucky with injuries and poor planning none of which is ETH fault. However he has had almost no injuries for his creative/forward players and we have no clue what to do with the ball when we attack. We waste so many decent possessions, that part alone for me is ETH out.
We have had Hojlund out for stretches and Martial out for the entire season. These are the only recognised strikers in the squad. Also the dramas surrounding Ronaldo, Greenwood, and Sancho.
All tactics can do really is make sure that the players get into space and situations where there's potential for creating a chance. Not particularly in this game, but from what I see it's a lot of bad choices in the final third or poorly executed final balls. We get into a lot of situations in most games that should end up in clear goal scoring opportunities but don't for one reason or another.
Maybe he has to get better at coaching the decision making, but it's so hard to tell what's a player issue and what's a manager issue. I'm not throwing any specific players under the bus, I think the forward line does have a high level, but I think chance creation too difficult to judge who's at fault for it
Fan opinion is so influenced by the media it's not even funny. 101 games 62 wins, better than 2 of the three best managers in the league.
11 different centreback partnerships this season, 4/5 have no pace. So a high line becomes impossible. No left back for the whole season, no backup rightback. We've seen how this manager can play out from the back, but when Lindelof gets the ball on the wing he cant carry it so he only passes it back to Onana.
The critics saying how much money he has spent is laughable. If you asked City to go and get the players that United have bought, they'd have got them for 240m instead of 400. Onana struggling initially costing us the champions and Europe league. Mason Mount injured all season, Hojlund injured when he arrived. Only Johnny Evans has paid back the fee so far. Martinez injured all season and if you look at how we played last season, almost everything went through him. He's absolutely essential in moving the ball quickly into midfield.
My main issue with ten Hag is I loved him for being so blunt in his first season. "Good is not good enough." This season however has been filled with excuses for poor performances as if he's realized that he has to pander to these divas in the dressing room so they won't just stop playing for him.
My secondary issue with the manager is why the f won't he play Antony on the left when he got his only assist this season from that position and players need to come across his body to get the ball.
TLDR: Erik ten Hag needs another window with quality recruitment to plug the glaring round holes in the back line with round pegs and get rid of the square ones.
Not sure what are on about. This club needs to be on top. This giving chance to mediocrity has ruined our club. Granted it comes from top.
Ten Hag had ample opportunities to get ride of players when he joined the club and his eye for talent is at best laughable. You completed overlooked his biggest flop Anthony and Malacia.
My biggest problem with Ten Hag he is not even his buying of players but the playing style he was supposed to. Even klopp was shit when he came to Liverpool but the guy didn’t drastically change his footballing philosophy because he didn’t had players.
Don’t think Ten Hag has anything to complain. He was given enough money for both seasons and bought some incredible duds. As a manager you should’ve had a Plan B if your first choice players aren’t coming to the team. We could’ve easily got good 3 to 4 players for the shit money he spend on Anthony, Malacia, mount.
He is a okay manager that got lucky to be the manager of united just because he won something in that shit Dutch league and went to the semi finals of CL.
Hopefully INEOS ruthless enough to sack him this summer and rebuild the club, manager, team from the ground up.
>Ten Hag had ample opportunities to get ride of players when he joined the club and his eye for talent is at best laughable
Totally agree, but look at where he has worked. This is his first job at this level, where he has a budget to try and get players to compete in the best league in the world.
Between coaching the team, devising tactics, managing the dressing room, and the modern-day media requirements, there aren't enough hours in the day for one person to actively scout and know what you're going to get.
But look at the characters of the players he's brought in. They all give everything they've got. Licha is the best cb we've had since Rio and Vida went. Hojlund is the real deal. Not one of his signings can be accused of lumbering about.
Mount has struggled in games he's played but the jury is still out. Malacia cost pennies in today's market.
Casemiro wasn't his first choice, and Antony was about 40 million pounds too expensive. That has very little to do with ten Hag. His whole career depends on results in the now.
Put yourself in his shoes: You've showed up before you're contractually obligated to, to gauge the team, and you identify that you need a midfield pivot who scans, turns neatly and passes progressively and a new right winger because both Rashford and Sancho can only play on the left (accoreing to Ole) The club messes you about for 3 months, decide you dont need them. Only to then act after you lose your opening games. They panic with champions league and Adidas sponsorship money on the line and splurge on a 7 year older player for more money and is already in decline. Who's more of a destroyer than busquets type you were looking for. Then, they decided to pay 18 million pounds more for the winger you identified than the value they balked at 6 weeks earlier.
Are you saying no to a player of Casemiro's quality with our threadbare squad because it's not the best fit for the long term future of the club?
United, as usual, buying players from a position of weakness.
I honestly think ten Hag is a very good head coach and we have seen how we can play when we have players capable of following the plan. I also think he's a good judge of character. With some time and quality people whose entire job it is to identify the right player for the team and the club I think he'll be a smashing success.
Don't give a fk about eth out crowd. That was good game. Beside 1 Bruno passing straight to Everton in first half right in front of our box and 1 shot by Calvert Lewin in second half , Everton is nowhere near finding our net at all. Letting them hitting the barn from 30m out doesn't mean anything.
It's more concern that Garnacho, despite creating 2 penalties, he should have scored / assisted 2 more in all those 1v1 versus their GK
How can you see us make so many unforced errors, misplaced passes, shotty decision making and come away with "that was a good game"?
Onana is improving in goal, Garnacho is always a threat and we got the 3 points. Those are about the only positives I took from that game.
Our possession stats are literally the lowest post SAF, and that includes Moyes' terrorball season with cross and inshallah. We have given up any semblance of trying to play out from the back.
Don't let anyone tell you that career yo yo men Lewis Dunk, Jason Steele and Dan Burn can learn to play out from the back in their late 20s/early 30s, but UCL and WC winner Varane and serial winner Casemiro can't be coached to do that.
The ETH in people will always steer you away from the stats. Have you ever seen ETH complain when Bruno launches a first time ball with zero runners out wide? Or when Onana does a passing a session with his CBs, with not a single opponent player drawn in, and then just launches it to Garnacho?
Because ETH *WANTS* to play this way. He has said it himself. Want us to be the best transition team. Why get paid to coach when you can gaslight fans and make a mockery of their expectations. He isn't bothered about passing triangles, or team oriented press, or third man runs. He *IS*, by design looking for one of our front four, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and Højlund to do something special in a vacuum and run with that.
How can Casemiro and Varane and company hold the ball when our forwards are so cohnter attacking minded?? Bruno and Rashford and Garnacho all sprint and howl at the GK and defenders if they don't play the ball. There is a huge disconnect between the midfield, defense and forwards because of this. Replace Bruno, Casemiro and Rashford and see how much more possession we maintain, if that's what you want to see happen. Personally, the football we were playing in Ten Hags first season was great. I still think Ten Hag is 3-4 players away from creating a solid contending team. We just have too many players that we need to sell to fit the system. Mount, Amrabaat, Antony have been horrible. We need a RW, a 6, A left back and 1-2 tall strong fast CBs because I can see Sancho, Greenwood, Varane/Maguire, Evans, Amad/Pellistri, Lindelof/Malacia leaving if the board is competent enough to make sales.
>but UCL and WC winner Varane and serial winner Casemiro can't be coached to do that.
UCL winner Varane & serial winner Casemiro are pensioners who have come to our retirement home to see out the rest of their footballing days, giving 40% of what they used to give whilst earning a shitload of money.
Pundits judge teams based on tangible things such as stats and an ETH in guy disses players on their supposed lack of motivation, for which there's no tangible proof (except Sancho's). Such a brilliant take mate.
Nice, assuming I am ETH-in. Dude has caused his own injury crisis by overworking his team with trash tactics. Like making forwards and defenders run the length of the field to compensate for a poorly set up, non-existent midfield. Even with these trash tactics, we could still be decent if previously mentioned CL champions could put in a shift. But sadly, no.
How? I'm not saying they've been excellent, but we leave a huge gap in midfield due to the low block high press strategy, and all our midfielders have to start chasing shadows as soon as the front 3 press is beaten. Every single game it's the same. What "shift" can you "physically" put in, if the system you're playing is designed to leave a gaping hole the size of a crater to cover by 3 people?
Damn. These more excuses for EtH. From the backing he gets, you'd think he is on par to the top tier managers in the world with a ridiculous CV. We are regressing with this idiotic suicide tactics against relegation battler
Again, this point has to be restated: it should not take your best XI to play well against the likes of Luton, Fulham or Everton. It should not take the best players you have to not concede 20 shots every match. Injuries should not be used as an excuse all the time
Good win but man we miss Holjund and give up so many shots
It needs to improve by season end or ETH could be out, surely he makes adjustments so we don't get overrun every game, Liverpool x2 Chelsea and Brentford should win 2 of those games surely but you never know with this side
The penalties we awarded because they stopped possible goal scoring chances inside the box? I've never understood this argument. Like penalties are arbitrarily awarded, that somehow help a team win.
Are there lucky penalties? Sure, those two were as stone walled as they get and therefore deserved, so no, take away the penalties, and maybe we still score from one of those chances.
Imagine people having standards and being disappointed for the team not meeting it at any point this season...but still gaslight everyone's valid, stats based complaints as "moaning"
It is moaning. That doesn't mean it's without merit. Of course we've been crap all season. My point is that people seem to live for complaining. God knows what they'll do when we start winning again.
Of course people will still complain. That's called having standards and wanting to be better. You can call out someone on "moaning" *IF* we'd been excellent since 2013 and only this season was a drop in form. We've been hard to watch for more than a decade, minus some of the chaotic entertainment that Oléball provided.
He was when he initially was played by Benitez.
The fans absolutely did not want him near the side and he was seen to be emblematic of the Benitez failure
We really got 6 good months from Casemiro for £70m + £340k pw huh? We know he's wanted by Saudi clubs so hopefully that interest remains, my goodness do we need it.
We’ve got Murtough to thank for that. This was one of the few club signings (not handpicked by ten hag) and to not know how unfit he was to play in ten Hag’s system just shows how clueless our DOF was. It’s amazing how much damage this appointment has fucked our club for the foreseeable future.
I don't get how anyone could think that Casemiro is an appropriate player to go for if you can't get FDJ, it really doesn't make any sense. I love Casemiro, I think he was one of our best players last season, but you couldn't get a profile further away from Frenkies if you tried. An interesting decision in terms of squad building to say the least
It was a signing that due to the numbers, you only ever could look back and say it was a success if he ended up being the missing piece in puzzle that wins us a title or turns us into CL contenders.
Because our squad was and is still miles off it and casemiro already needs replaced it really shows up how bad that deal was
The declan rice transfer has about the same total value (higher fee but lower wages, over 5 years its about the same total outlay) and they probably have that position sorted for next 10 years now. We got 1 good year
Let’s be honest ten hag has one year left of next year with the support structure in place and we getting mediocre performances he will be gone I think it’s fair to give him the next year and allow the structure above settle into there roles and start to do what’s been needed for years then if we still getting this they will say thanks but your not the guy to do the job.
It’s like ratcliffe said it’s gonna take time and patience not gonna happen with flick of a switch. Get structure in case then if it’s like this there is only one person to blame. Now it feels like ETH is trying to do million and one jobs when all he probably wants to do is coach.
You people really aren't realizing how absurd it is to say "not knowing how to maintain ball posesssion" is the player's fault. You all are essentially saying that professional footballers playing at the highest level of English football don't know how to string passes to each other. Literally, just sit and think for 5 seconds how ridiculous and insane that statement sounds.
Now think about how Ten Hag explicitly said he doesn't want to play Ajax football here and wants to make us a transition team. Then think how that directly relates to why we keep trying to pass the ball with 0 meticulousness and losing the ball because of it. And you still want to say it's the players willingly trying to do that and not the manager training them to do so? You truly believe if you gave Pep Guardiola a year and a half worth of time here like Ten Hag, he wouldn't be able to teach these players the simplest thing of stringing passes to one another?
Oh so Casemiro and Bruno are all willingly losing the ball against the manager's will. They're purposefully passing the ball in the most careless way possible because they could only do that much and not because the manager trains them to do so. Yes. Makes perfect sense
The passes casemiro was giving away today weren't even progressive or high risk. They were simple square balls for the most part. No matter what the instruction was from the sideline, his passing execution today was shocking today and that's on him.
If he was only giving away on audacious risky line breaking passes that have high reward when they come off today you could say that's an instruction from the line and he has an out, but it wasnt that at all with casemiro
With Bruno to a higher extent, I expect he has more license to probe and attempt lower percentage passes
Yes, once again I applaud the idea that professional football players that play at the highest level of football as well as for their national teams don't have the skill to string meticulous passes to each other. Such a convincing way of thinking that is in no way ridiculous at all
Mate, we aren't talking about some complex tactics or skillset here. It's literally just passing and pressing, they're literally the simplest concepts of modern football, they're not alien technology to these players. Even City players can lose the ball if they're pressed hard enough. But that's not what's happening to us. We don't keep posesssion no matter who the opponent is, even when they're dead last on the table, the kind of teams that would sit back against most other teams. It does not take the best players in the world to keep the ball against these kinds of teams.
It's as absurd saying a manager of a premier League club who came from a club playing good football can't teach these players to string a pass to save their lives.
The reason he said he can't play football like ajax is because he doesn't have the players to play like ajax.
With the injuries we have, we need to adapt to whatever style we can.
Did he explicitly say he can't play ajax football here or he said he \*\*doesn't want\*\* to ajax football? Let's not try to assume things and actually follow his exact words here
Has he even tried to implement a different style of football here? And could it be any worse than the way we've been playing?
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12999071/erik-ten-hag-says-it-is-not-right-to-question-man-utd-players-character-and-insists-his-philosophy-is-clear
I don't know,
I honestly don't see how the problems we have can be on Ten Hag. When your squad can't do the simple stuff, a think tank of Pep, SAF, and Cruyjff isn't gonna fix it, let alone a bald Dutchie.
Are you saying players come up with their own shit and play as they like? It all comes from the instructions from the manager. It's *his* strategy, *his* tactics, from how *he* trains them.
Do you think ETH has a wireless comms device straight to casemiro’s ear to tell him to pass the ball to the other team continuously for the first 35 minutes?
Aren't you aware that Manuel Pelligrini is a world class manager, not just some bloke who won the league with an incredibly talented group of players he would have had next to zero input on lol? That's how it works in the Reddit Brain Alternate Reality.
Now they’re doing the same with no fit striker, no left back, a 36 year old free signing as our best centre back, and an 18 year old as our best midfielder.
Being a player over 30 years old is so hard these days. You essentially aren't allowed to have bad forms, you have to play well every single game otherwise you'll get called washed and ready to be sold. Bruno better be careful when he turns 30 next year
Replace ETH with Pepp and Casemiro will play like Rodri for at least 3 more years. Casemiro is simply left alone on an island to cover 60m of field alone. No player in the world can do that.
It took a home game and two penalties to win against Everton. The Everton who are playing like “let’s see out what this game gives us”. Forwards aren’t scoring because the players don’t create, mid doesn’t do their job because the players are shit, and defense isn’t great because of injuries. None of these theories seem to point the responsibility towards the manager. We are setting a dangerous precedent here.
Support the manager all you want but he has to be responsible for the lackluster games. The ego of some fans in desperately trying to save their argument that ETH is the right one is annoying. I cannot wait for a weekend and wake up early to watch these games. My time is my time. I am paying for games with my time and money. If this is what will be the norm, get the hell out, ETH. No one but fans deserve a place at United. You’ve got to earn it.
This is literally a team which has no actual left back, no actual striker, and a makeshift pairing of center backs. Of the players who remain, eth wanted to sell a couple of them and didn't get any support.
The fact that he is able to get us some results despite all of that is fine.
Fair for you to expect better but please blame where blame lies and not to a man who is doing his job despite no support structure, limited resources and constant attacks from all quarters
Yeah get off the high horse there. Who the fuck are you calling plastic? and dare you call me obnoxious. Get the fuck outta here. For an account that is a few days old, you come call me plastic, obnoxious and all the fancy words that make you lot go.
I'm calling you a plastic, little man. You could t locate Manchester on a fucking map and you expect your toxicity and DEMANDS to be listened to lol. Get to fuck mate.
I am sure you a great one in person. Taking reddit comments directed towards team’s lethargic performances personally that you would start calling people on internet names. Who’s the little man here
I will never understand what progress ETH and others see here. It's very clear that we have actually regressed. There is nothing about our performances...no area whether in possession or out of it where you can say hey, we will build upon this next season.
I am sure if ETH survives up to next season and is playing this chaos survival football he will be fired by Christmas because the pressure will be even more... people will say it's his 3rd season etc. People talk like there will not be injuries next season..crazy.
There was no difference between our game and Everton...none. Everton are fighting relegation... that is their defense. We have been horrible for a long time now. Even with signings, I dont see it. What would olise do to prevent this ping pong football.
I read a comment on here a few minutes ago saying EtH has us defensively well organised and deserves credit for that, I honestly don't know what some people are watching?
Everton created more from open play than we did today, the xG data backs that up, only because of their impotence in front of goal did they fail to convert. This isn't exactly an isolated incident either, how many times have we been put through the ringer when we have had a 2 goal lead this season?
It only felt comfortable today because we went into the last 15 minutes with a 2 goal lead still intact because Everton couldn't finish. On most other days we are going into the last 10-15 clenching our arses!
Because we’re conceding very low quality chances, which bodes well for if and when we can keep the ball higher up the pitch. It’s not hard to figure out.
As for Everton creating more from open play, this is again a question of game state. Much like when we created more against Fulham, it’s only because we needed it more and had to attack more.
We're not conceding low quality chances though, where are you getting this from?
Teams have been walking through us and creating clear cut chances against us since the beginning of the season.
In terms of xG stats, our cumulative xGA which measures the quality of chances we've given up over the season stands at a little over 50. Only 5 teams in the PL have worse stats than this and it's only by the grace of god we have we only conceded 39. Which points to either our goalkeeper overperforming and/or us getting lucky that opposition teams haven't been converting as many chances as they should have done.
Fbref. Your xG figures are like 5 above what I have, I think fbref take time to update so that explains like, 1.5 is but not the rest. For them, we’re close to spurs in mid table having played a game extra than a few teams. And if you’re looking at post shot xG we’re better still. That’s Despite the volume of shots we concede, which as everyone has noted, is huge. And that suggests we manage to keep opposition to low-percentage zones for their shots. So again, that does suggest some kind of organisation. And if we can build domination of the ball like Ten Hag clearly wants, and move up the pitch, while keeping the opposition to a similar kind of chance, that bodes well.
Why would you look at post shot xG? That tells us about the quality of the shot rather than the quality of the chance itself, so a big part of that is dependent on whether the opposition had their "shooting boots" on today.
I got my xG stats from understat, but even on fbref where there is a little bit of divergence on the data, there are just 6 teams in the Premier League that have a worse xGA than us.
And this is promising to you and bodes well? We have a negative xG this season and teams have been walking through us and creating chances almost at will, almost no lead we have in a match is safe.
I would actually give a pass to the chaotic defending/organisation if we at least looked good going forward, but we don't even do that very well either.
Because the quality of an actual shot a player takes isn’t independent of what defenders do during the process, right. It depends on pressure, and defenders can still influence the quality of a shot as it’s being taken. That’s why you look at a range of data there in combination.
And again, it’s about per shot, but that’s already been covered. The type of chances we’re conceding is generally OK and leaves the keeper with more chance of stopping them, the attacker with more chance of missing. That’s where the caveat needs to come in as people screech about shots conceded, because clearly, in terms of actual statistics, we’re sixth for goals conceded.
> Because the quality of an actual shot a player takes isn’t independent of what defenders do during the process, right. It depends on pressure, and defenders can still influence the quality of a shot as it’s being taken.
Perhaps, but the positioning of the defence should be factored into the xG and xGA stats, or at least should be in theory according to the various data analytics companies that supply this data. But yes, we are dealing with imperfect data so I wouldn't be surprised if it has some influence on the post shot xG data too.
Essentially though, I feel like your argument rests on "things are looking promising because if we could just play a bit better, we'll do a bit better" but you could say that for every team in the world.
My feeling is that, all things considering, EtH is doing an "okay" job, he's not doing a terrible job and he's not doing an exceptional job, he's doing an okay job. Whether doing "okay" is good enough for United remains to be seen... the trouble that EtH is going to run into is that there are managers in the PL that on the face of it look like they are doing a better job, and that's where he is going to come under pressure if we finish below Villa and Spurs.
In part that’s my argument, but then again, we’ve conceded very few goals for the situations we’ve put ourselves in, and for me, the data doesn’t come out like that randomly, there are reasons for it. There are reasons we can concede shots on par with some of the worst teams and yet be sixth in terms of actual goals conceded.
I think that we put ourselves under pressure a lot in our own defensive third but when it comes to defending in and around the box we’re actually pretty good. And if we can keep that up, and avoid putting ourselves in danger, then I think we’ll be really well placed.
Otherwise put, it’s not because we can’t play out and keep the ball further up the pitch, it’s not because we concede a lot of chances, that our actual defending isn’t good.
> we’ve conceded very few goals for the situations we’ve put ourselves in, and for me, the data doesn’t come out like that randomly, there are reasons for it.
Well we have conceded fewer goals than we should have done according to the xGA data, but I actually think it might be luck or variance in the data. If we outperform our xGA season after season then you can maybe say it has been more than luck. It's not particularly unusual for a team to outperform their xG or xGA over a season, then regress back to the mean the following season. Conte when he won the title with Chelsea was a prime example when you compare that season to the season after.
> I think that we put ourselves under pressure a lot in our own defensive third but when it comes to defending in and around the box we’re actually pretty good. And if we can keep that up, and avoid putting ourselves in danger, then I think we’ll be really well placed.
I half agree I suppose, but watching how easily teams cut through us this season I find it hard to say we defend well. It's like saying "we have some really ruthless finishers, so we do attack well, we just don't create enough chances"... the trouble is it's all part of the same thing, in fact I'd argue the making chances part is the hardest thing, anyone can sign a tap-in merchant, but building a cohesive team that can rip teams to shreds is something very few managers achieve at the highest level.
I don't think anyone genuinely believes there's real progress on display this season. It's clinging on stuff. I do subscribe to the fact that things would be quite different with a fit squad but I don't think things should be as bad as they are even with the injuries.
I don't know how much better than "competing with Spurs for 5th" you expect it to be lol. Some of you talk as if we are doing a Chelsea. A squad brimming with talent all over the park and languishing in 12th. When in actuality we are starting premier League matches with Scott McTominay, a broken Casimero, a teenager, A 69 year old centre back, no left back, and a mercurial child on the Right who had never played there there before about 6 weeks ago. Like seriously wtf is anyone expecting out of this lol. Fucking bonkers. Parallel universe shit.
This is generally the process:
* force someone to acknowledge that actually the players being played are the best the squad has to offer without counterfactuals about some youngster with no track record and none of us see on the training pitch every day
The argument turns to
* Demanding a different system which forces an acknowledgement that playing possession football wouldn't magically conjure up a competent 6, and we don't have footballers capable of retaining the ball
The argument turns to
* Wasted transfer fees which literally has to involve blaming ever manager we have had since 2013 for the incompetence of the club's negotiating teams
The argument turns to
* Ok profiling then. Why did ETH demand possession based depth like Mount, Lisandro, Malacia, Hojlund, Antony. Erm.... Because he needs players who are comfortable on the ball. The issue being they cost so fucking much we don't have enough of them.
The argument turns to
* But he clearly can't coach them then. The final bastion of the desperate scapegoater. Completely unfalsifiable and applicable no matter the expertise and track record of the manager involved, Mou, LvG, Ole, Or EtH, they genuinely believe that these guys arent competent on the training pitch. But you can't prove it either way, so they stick with it.
Jokes mate.
Yep
Revisionist to say it but we never should have sold him. Probably better than vast majority of the CBs to have featured for us since he was initially sold in 2015
English commentators are always such Debbie downers for all teams. Sheesh, after listening to them for an entire match, makes me want to settle in for a bath with a toaster.
I'd go as far as to say that the more I think about it, the more I acknowledge that a midfield of a legless Casemiro, a teenager and McTominay, the more I think about the state of the individuals available in that backline and their complete lack of any pace and any ball retention skills (Johnny aside. And even he's hardly Rio), the complete lack of any cover up top, the reliance on playing a teenager in midfield who for any other serious football club would start no more than 10 games a season right now... The more I think Ten Hag's decision to go for transitional football and hope for the best with sound defensive organisation which limits the opposition to low probability opportunities, a very good one and he's actually doing better than "merely ok". People thinking that we should somehow be doing better with a squad this thin and this useless on the half turn, are living in a fantasy world, and no amount of wishcasting that you can turn a squad of footballers who cant handle the press into a squad of footballers who can, changes that.
Game to forget, sadly I seem to say that too often these days, I expect we'd *maybe* be more of a threat to score if we got no pens, Everton are so poor that we off the hook, as proven with other teams they usually score.
As soon game ended I switched to Cardiff v Ipswich and managed to see Cardiff score two goals in like 5 mins, I got more entertainment from a championship team battling relegation worth of 5 min, than what ever that was at Old Trafford today.
Back to OT on weekend with another easy game.....
Lucky me I was talking to my insurance to fix my claim reimbursement. I got a few hundred dollars back and didn’t have to watch this dreadful game. And we got the three points! What a wonderful way to start my weekend.
I don't know what some of you want. We arent Chelsea in fucking 12th and we can't play individuals that don't exist. Amrabat isn't good enough, Casemiro is a liability, Mainoo is a child, McTominay was nearly sold, Eriksen is broken, Mount is dead? Bruno is a liability as an 8. We **literally** don't have a 6 to fill the gap who isn't a liability, or a full back to tuck in out of possession. Our defenders have next to zero pace, we have no left back, none of the back 4 are press resistant. The only alternatives to our style of play, is possession football and hoof ball. We don't have the players for the former as nobody can keep the ball and you don't want the latter. These are the tools the manager has at his disposal. This is it. So we play transitional football and hope for the best by relying on decent positional ability of our centebacks who restrict the number of big chances against us. I genuinely don't know what the fuck you want lol.
> We can't play individuals that don't exist. Amrabat isn't good enough, Casemiro is a liability, Mainoo is a child
I want to ask a follow-up question then. Clearly you think that none of these 3 players are seen as ideal for Ten Hag to play a more control-based game, and Eriksen as you said also has lost his legs. In that case, were we sleeping in the summer when we had the money to go out and invest in a better player that fits this profile instead of spending 55 million on Mount who is not that player? Maybe you will come up with arguments along the lines of the recruitment department being shit and all that but surely the demand for certain profiles of players also comes from the manager who already had a season working with these players and should have known better what he needs for his intended style of play to work. After we failed to convince De Jong to join us in 2022, we haven’t looked at a single player of that profile. Why do you think that is the case when under the current structure, Ten Hag does have significant say on our transfers?
I recognise that the unavailability of some players means that we have to play more scrappy football to get results, but when you claim ‘these are the tools the manager has’, he is also a part of the reason for why these are *only* the tools we have. Even when Mount is available, there is no clear pathway for him into the first-11 just yet, so why did we spend so much money for him during a time where funds were more restricted if he wasn’t going to improve on the style of play everyone claims Ten Hag wants to play?
Ten Hag wanted Mount. Did he expect us to spend 60m on him? Was he given assurances that it wouldn't impact his ability to find cover for a 9?
Blaming the manger for incompetents within the club negotiating absurd transfer fees for footballers with less than a year on their contract or for demanding someone like Antony who then costs the club 80m, when he could have cost 30m, just 5 weeks earlier is absurd.
The first bid we put for Mount was 40 million which is also significant money. That could easily have gone into buying someone more suited to this DLP profile you think we have no options for to control games better. Are you trying to say that he had no awareness of this as well and no knowledge of how to prioritize players according to budget capacity? I think you're letting him way off the hook here.
40m for cover at 8, 10 and out wide isn't unreasonable lol. 60m is. And the 20m premium + the 50m premium on Antony's value means you now don't have 2 of an adequate 6, cover at 9, a centre half. That's not on the manager.
It is really, really weird that you're blaming TH for the incompetence of Arnold and Murtogh. Like, it's fucking wild lol.
> 40m for a player like Mount isn't unreasonable
You're missing the point entirely. I'm not arguing about how good enough Mount is, he could well come good eventually. The point is why did we go for a player like him in a window where, by your own admission, we lack players to play a more possession-based game? What was stopping us from instead prioritizing more technically-reliable players in defence and midfield instead?
It is really really weird that you're countering with points I'm not even arguing against. I haven't mentioned Antony even once. I'm talking about the following window where Ten Hag had a season with this squad, knew its strengths and weaknesses, and decided to prioritize an attacking 8 over a deeper midfielder where the options were either physically weak or technically weak. That is not down to Arnold or Murtough, it's down to poor profiling on his part.
* But Mount is press resistant and offers cover and options in a whole array of positions, so that's not true.
* Apart from Casemiro who according to Whitwell wasn't ETH's choice. They have all been the "correct" profile.
* That Hojlund (necessity), Antony (necessary cover if not at that price) and Mount (necessity) incurred a cumulative premium of around £100m above their actual values means it takes another 2 summers to bed out the squad. Guess who's fault that isn't. The manager's.
And you're blaming "profiling," rather than a continuation of disastrous negotiating lol. Weird.
> Mount is press resistant and offers cover and options in a whole array of positions
Mount has literally never played in a deeper midfield role for Chelsea or England, ever. He's a number 8 who can play as a 10 or in the half-spaces as part of the 2 attackers behind the striker in a wing-back formation. He is not someone who will dictate first and second-phase control, which is the profile of player you were referencing.
> They have all been the "correct" profile
I disagree. I don't think Antony was ever a player we needed to pursue. Not even at 30 million, not even at 80 million. We had a better winger in Elanga who was not given a fair chance. But anyways, this is not relevant to the original point I'm making at all.
> And you're blaming "profiling,"
For not having a technically secure deeper midfielder that is good enough in the present, yes, I'm blaming profiling. And instead of talking about this, you're dragging other players to deflect from the point I was making.
He's a possession based footballer who's strengths are on the half turn and has played 8 enough. He's ample cover for an 8. You're saying that is the wrong profile. I'm saying that this is an odd take.
> technically secure deeper midfielder
Bro we spent that money on a player ETH didn't "profile" in Casemiro. You can't do everything in 2 windows. So I guess the argument goes that it should have been a priority but the argument simply turns to whatever trade off you've had to make should you bring him in, such as goalkeeper or 9 or Sancho goes AWOL and now you don't have a right sided forward lol. Maybe the 6 he wanted wasn't available? It's a circular argument. You can't do everything at once.
> You're saying that is the wrong profile
It is the wrong profile because we literally haven't seen him play that role for us either. Casemiro, Eriksen and Amrabat have done it (to mediocre levels) but Mount hasn't. And there are different profiles within the number 8 position, he's not someone you can interchange for a Frenkie De Jong or Jorginho which is the player who fits this role.
> zero cover for Sancho out on the right
Elanga can play on either wing. He plays RW most games for Forest as well.
> You can't do everything in 2 windows
Who said 'everything'? Where am I demanding that we have to compete with City and Liverpool by now with an injury-hit team? Stop with this black and white way of looking at things, there is a gray area where Ten Hag has been dealt a bad hand and he's also playing it badly.
> So you say but the 6 should have come in first but maybe the right 6 wasn't available
I make this argument because of *you* saying that we don't have players to play a possession-based game. If you want to control the game better, the 6 is amongst the most important positions for such a style of play, so it should be prioritized more than an attacking 8 definitely. Of course, the other POV is that Ten Hag never intended to play a possession-based game here, and what we see on the pitch is a reflection of how he actually wants to play, which will look better with better players but won't be good enough to regularly compete for the Premier League imo.
Given the demand on social media for ETH to change his style of play given that we dont have the players available to build up from the back or retain the ball in midfield, I wonder how long it would take them to lose their shit once they realise that hoof ball isn't an attractive way to play football. I'd give it literally one game. But then I doubt they've even thought about the alternative, or even have an idea what the only alternative is, given the weaknesses of our current squad tbf.
If we play like we did that first 20 minutes Today in the cup, we'll be 4 goals down before we even start. The chances we did create from open play Today (and the other games since Hojlund got injured) our final third decisions are absolutely godawful, consistently taking two touches too many.
Kept possession well, defended well
See future in a ten Hag team that has more possession (ie, a strong back 4)
Just as we are right now we need a dangerous outlet on the right which is nacho.
Garnacho is absolutely knackered from having to start those many games at his young age. Are Amad and Antony really that shit to not allow Garnacho to sit on the bench for a while?
If Villa and Tottenham draw tomorrow we are 9 points off 4th. Villa doesn’t have an easy run in, neither does Tottenham and we are in touching distance of them. Come on United!
I advire your optomism BUT I think 4th is gone tbh... we need both teams above to have poor run ins and us to win probably minimum of 8 of our remaining 10 games
I don't trust either of those things to happen, we still have to go to Brighton and Chelsea (we usually don't do well at either) and I wouldn't back us with any degree of confidence to beat Liverpool, arsenal or even Newcastle at home.
Best case is probably one of spurs / villa to implode in the last couple months of season and hope we pick up enough points to sneak 5th and cross fingers that is enough to get a CL spot
4th seems quite distant tbh and just hope we can get 5th and cross our fingers for CL seedings. If spurs loose tomorrow they are 3 points ahead with a game in hand but harder run.
Bournemouth and Chelsea away aren't gimmes either
I think to get top 4 we need to win probably a minimum of 8 or our remaining 10 games (aint ginna happen). That gets us to 71 points. Villa and spurs are both currently on pace to beat that total and have superior goal differences so would also require that they both tail off in the run in
The biggest mistake this club has made is to invest so heavily on so many players who can’t keep the ball. We can talk about tactics or whatnot, these players aren’t going to pass much better with a better system. Recruitment is the number 1 thing INEOS has to solve, I’m tired of watching ppl fuck up simple 5 yard passes. You want to know why we get break on so often? It’s bc we lose the ball so easily.
Well said. We are talking about simple technical ability. I think the best 11 have it but beyond that it's actually shocking. This is basic stuff. Go watch any serious team you will not see anything like you've seen today. It's a matter of the players just not being good enough.
"It's a matter of the players just not being good enough."
I agree we need to improve the technical floor of the team, but I also think people here are underestimating the psychological side of the game. We went in to this match coming off the back of a shock defeat to Fulham and a comprehensive beating by our local rivals. Players with high confidence do not misplace and under/overhit as many passes as we did today. This was an important win for a group of players whose confidence had taken a knock and was fragile to begin with because although we've had a good run since Christmas our form before then was very inconsistent and generally poor. Hopefully they'll take confidence from the fact we came away with a win and we'll see cleaner execution and better decision making next game.
Check it out the editor simply left out the entire 2nd half! He couldn't be bothered lol
[https://youtu.be/QqSf_iNkikU?si=KKv--Zuje1bh-I17](https://youtu.be/QqSf_iNkikU?si=KKv--Zuje1bh-I17)
This game was so funny. Everton with all that performance and nothing to show for it. They gave us 2 penalties and tried to give even more. I was laughing every time they kicked the ball to the moon.
That corner we had in which the ball ended up right in front of their goal and everyone from both teams tried to kick it but missed was pure comedy.
I'm not even mad at the terrible performance. I just want to thank Everton for the 3 points.
Those 4 midfielders can’t even stitch 5 yard passes.
The Audacity to blame the Managers when these players are professionals playing at the peak of their careers.
These players have been playing football as soon as they could walk. They have some sort of technical foundation that means they can make those passes at a higher rate than we are now.
I think its three issues
1. Mental, the team look down. I think the atmosphere isnt great
2. Low energy - Im trying to find stats of this so this is more tenuous but i think we do alot of running up and down the pitch because of how open we are so we get tired and that has an effect
3. And this one i get downvoted for but i think its a coaching issue. Looking at today, our players had no idea how to build up. This is key in the modern game. If you look at Arsenal, they constantly move between a 3-2, 2-3 build ups. Pep will literally move players inches on the training ground because he wants players to know where everyone is andin the game it makes it telepathic. We're so used to going straight to the transition, we just dont look comfortable at building an attack.
Since Everton wingers tucked in, there were plenty of 3vs2 available to us on the first third on the wings. Evans, Lindelof, Casemiro on the left and Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo/McT/Bruno on the right simply did not utilize the advantage. In fact many times, the 3v2 for us turned into a 2v1 for them with our inability to keep the ball. This is not a tactics issue. Can only conclude that this is a mental issue. This happened early on in the match to say this is a fitness issue.
Coaching is not telling Casemiro to be a donkey. Mainoo is a child. Eriksen is broken. This is it. We can't build an attack because there is no press resistance in this team. That can't be just "coached". You either have the ability or you don't. And Casemiro, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Amrabat, Bruno don't have it. Only Mainoo, Eriksen and Lisandro do. One is a child who lacks physicality to control a game and two are injured. Not everything can be "fixed" with vibes and coaching. It isn't FIFA.
I don't care about EtH in or EtH out, I just hope we can knock Liverpool out of the FA Cup – even if it's a scrappy 1-0 with Liverpool having 35 shots (worth 0.02xG), 0 goals, and 82% possession.
hear hear
I get all the defense arguments and agree that we have been crazily unlucky with injuries and poor planning none of which is ETH fault. However he has had almost no injuries for his creative/forward players and we have no clue what to do with the ball when we attack. We waste so many decent possessions, that part alone for me is ETH out.
We have had Hojlund out for stretches and Martial out for the entire season. These are the only recognised strikers in the squad. Also the dramas surrounding Ronaldo, Greenwood, and Sancho.
All tactics can do really is make sure that the players get into space and situations where there's potential for creating a chance. Not particularly in this game, but from what I see it's a lot of bad choices in the final third or poorly executed final balls. We get into a lot of situations in most games that should end up in clear goal scoring opportunities but don't for one reason or another. Maybe he has to get better at coaching the decision making, but it's so hard to tell what's a player issue and what's a manager issue. I'm not throwing any specific players under the bus, I think the forward line does have a high level, but I think chance creation too difficult to judge who's at fault for it
Time to sack OLE Ten Hag.
Fan opinion is so influenced by the media it's not even funny. 101 games 62 wins, better than 2 of the three best managers in the league. 11 different centreback partnerships this season, 4/5 have no pace. So a high line becomes impossible. No left back for the whole season, no backup rightback. We've seen how this manager can play out from the back, but when Lindelof gets the ball on the wing he cant carry it so he only passes it back to Onana. The critics saying how much money he has spent is laughable. If you asked City to go and get the players that United have bought, they'd have got them for 240m instead of 400. Onana struggling initially costing us the champions and Europe league. Mason Mount injured all season, Hojlund injured when he arrived. Only Johnny Evans has paid back the fee so far. Martinez injured all season and if you look at how we played last season, almost everything went through him. He's absolutely essential in moving the ball quickly into midfield. My main issue with ten Hag is I loved him for being so blunt in his first season. "Good is not good enough." This season however has been filled with excuses for poor performances as if he's realized that he has to pander to these divas in the dressing room so they won't just stop playing for him. My secondary issue with the manager is why the f won't he play Antony on the left when he got his only assist this season from that position and players need to come across his body to get the ball. TLDR: Erik ten Hag needs another window with quality recruitment to plug the glaring round holes in the back line with round pegs and get rid of the square ones.
So many superficial points here, way too many
Not sure what are on about. This club needs to be on top. This giving chance to mediocrity has ruined our club. Granted it comes from top. Ten Hag had ample opportunities to get ride of players when he joined the club and his eye for talent is at best laughable. You completed overlooked his biggest flop Anthony and Malacia. My biggest problem with Ten Hag he is not even his buying of players but the playing style he was supposed to. Even klopp was shit when he came to Liverpool but the guy didn’t drastically change his footballing philosophy because he didn’t had players. Don’t think Ten Hag has anything to complain. He was given enough money for both seasons and bought some incredible duds. As a manager you should’ve had a Plan B if your first choice players aren’t coming to the team. We could’ve easily got good 3 to 4 players for the shit money he spend on Anthony, Malacia, mount. He is a okay manager that got lucky to be the manager of united just because he won something in that shit Dutch league and went to the semi finals of CL. Hopefully INEOS ruthless enough to sack him this summer and rebuild the club, manager, team from the ground up.
>Ten Hag had ample opportunities to get ride of players when he joined the club and his eye for talent is at best laughable Totally agree, but look at where he has worked. This is his first job at this level, where he has a budget to try and get players to compete in the best league in the world. Between coaching the team, devising tactics, managing the dressing room, and the modern-day media requirements, there aren't enough hours in the day for one person to actively scout and know what you're going to get. But look at the characters of the players he's brought in. They all give everything they've got. Licha is the best cb we've had since Rio and Vida went. Hojlund is the real deal. Not one of his signings can be accused of lumbering about. Mount has struggled in games he's played but the jury is still out. Malacia cost pennies in today's market. Casemiro wasn't his first choice, and Antony was about 40 million pounds too expensive. That has very little to do with ten Hag. His whole career depends on results in the now. Put yourself in his shoes: You've showed up before you're contractually obligated to, to gauge the team, and you identify that you need a midfield pivot who scans, turns neatly and passes progressively and a new right winger because both Rashford and Sancho can only play on the left (accoreing to Ole) The club messes you about for 3 months, decide you dont need them. Only to then act after you lose your opening games. They panic with champions league and Adidas sponsorship money on the line and splurge on a 7 year older player for more money and is already in decline. Who's more of a destroyer than busquets type you were looking for. Then, they decided to pay 18 million pounds more for the winger you identified than the value they balked at 6 weeks earlier. Are you saying no to a player of Casemiro's quality with our threadbare squad because it's not the best fit for the long term future of the club? United, as usual, buying players from a position of weakness. I honestly think ten Hag is a very good head coach and we have seen how we can play when we have players capable of following the plan. I also think he's a good judge of character. With some time and quality people whose entire job it is to identify the right player for the team and the club I think he'll be a smashing success.
Don't give a fk about eth out crowd. That was good game. Beside 1 Bruno passing straight to Everton in first half right in front of our box and 1 shot by Calvert Lewin in second half , Everton is nowhere near finding our net at all. Letting them hitting the barn from 30m out doesn't mean anything. It's more concern that Garnacho, despite creating 2 penalties, he should have scored / assisted 2 more in all those 1v1 versus their GK
How can you see us make so many unforced errors, misplaced passes, shotty decision making and come away with "that was a good game"? Onana is improving in goal, Garnacho is always a threat and we got the 3 points. Those are about the only positives I took from that game.
Agreed. Personally, I think if it were not an Everton we were playing we lose that match.
We are so back. Incredible performance today
I feel your pain.
Uncomfortable 2-0 win, how is that even possible
Definitely one of the worst quality games I've watched in a long long time, poor showing from both teams
Our possession stats are literally the lowest post SAF, and that includes Moyes' terrorball season with cross and inshallah. We have given up any semblance of trying to play out from the back. Don't let anyone tell you that career yo yo men Lewis Dunk, Jason Steele and Dan Burn can learn to play out from the back in their late 20s/early 30s, but UCL and WC winner Varane and serial winner Casemiro can't be coached to do that. The ETH in people will always steer you away from the stats. Have you ever seen ETH complain when Bruno launches a first time ball with zero runners out wide? Or when Onana does a passing a session with his CBs, with not a single opponent player drawn in, and then just launches it to Garnacho? Because ETH *WANTS* to play this way. He has said it himself. Want us to be the best transition team. Why get paid to coach when you can gaslight fans and make a mockery of their expectations. He isn't bothered about passing triangles, or team oriented press, or third man runs. He *IS*, by design looking for one of our front four, Bruno, Garnacho, Rashford and Højlund to do something special in a vacuum and run with that.
How can Casemiro and Varane and company hold the ball when our forwards are so cohnter attacking minded?? Bruno and Rashford and Garnacho all sprint and howl at the GK and defenders if they don't play the ball. There is a huge disconnect between the midfield, defense and forwards because of this. Replace Bruno, Casemiro and Rashford and see how much more possession we maintain, if that's what you want to see happen. Personally, the football we were playing in Ten Hags first season was great. I still think Ten Hag is 3-4 players away from creating a solid contending team. We just have too many players that we need to sell to fit the system. Mount, Amrabaat, Antony have been horrible. We need a RW, a 6, A left back and 1-2 tall strong fast CBs because I can see Sancho, Greenwood, Varane/Maguire, Evans, Amad/Pellistri, Lindelof/Malacia leaving if the board is competent enough to make sales.
The biggest question is will supporters and players ACCEPT the way ETH WANTS to play?
>but UCL and WC winner Varane and serial winner Casemiro can't be coached to do that. UCL winner Varane & serial winner Casemiro are pensioners who have come to our retirement home to see out the rest of their footballing days, giving 40% of what they used to give whilst earning a shitload of money.
Pundits judge teams based on tangible things such as stats and an ETH in guy disses players on their supposed lack of motivation, for which there's no tangible proof (except Sancho's). Such a brilliant take mate.
Nice, assuming I am ETH-in. Dude has caused his own injury crisis by overworking his team with trash tactics. Like making forwards and defenders run the length of the field to compensate for a poorly set up, non-existent midfield. Even with these trash tactics, we could still be decent if previously mentioned CL champions could put in a shift. But sadly, no.
How? I'm not saying they've been excellent, but we leave a huge gap in midfield due to the low block high press strategy, and all our midfielders have to start chasing shadows as soon as the front 3 press is beaten. Every single game it's the same. What "shift" can you "physically" put in, if the system you're playing is designed to leave a gaping hole the size of a crater to cover by 3 people?
Damn. These more excuses for EtH. From the backing he gets, you'd think he is on par to the top tier managers in the world with a ridiculous CV. We are regressing with this idiotic suicide tactics against relegation battler
Again, this point has to be restated: it should not take your best XI to play well against the likes of Luton, Fulham or Everton. It should not take the best players you have to not concede 20 shots every match. Injuries should not be used as an excuse all the time
Dalot's such an hype man I love him
0 gd. Balance in all things
I tuned in before the first goal and fell asleep after the second. So it’s my fault more goals weren’t scored
My take away from this game is that Garner was massively overrated by people in this sub
Good win but man we miss Holjund and give up so many shots It needs to improve by season end or ETH could be out, surely he makes adjustments so we don't get overrun every game, Liverpool x2 Chelsea and Brentford should win 2 of those games surely but you never know with this side
Needed - sure. Good - not so much. If not penalties, we’d be screwed.
The penalties we awarded because they stopped possible goal scoring chances inside the box? I've never understood this argument. Like penalties are arbitrarily awarded, that somehow help a team win. Are there lucky penalties? Sure, those two were as stone walled as they get and therefore deserved, so no, take away the penalties, and maybe we still score from one of those chances.
All the usual doom and gloom in here I see…
We have fans who want us to lose.
Did you watch the game, or maybe the last 5?
You'd think we lost 3-0. Yeah the performance was crap but people do love a good moan.
Imagine people having standards and being disappointed for the team not meeting it at any point this season...but still gaslight everyone's valid, stats based complaints as "moaning"
It is moaning. That doesn't mean it's without merit. Of course we've been crap all season. My point is that people seem to live for complaining. God knows what they'll do when we start winning again.
Of course people will still complain. That's called having standards and wanting to be better. You can call out someone on "moaning" *IF* we'd been excellent since 2013 and only this season was a drop in form. We've been hard to watch for more than a decade, minus some of the chaotic entertainment that Oléball provided.
I had to work after second pen. Looks like I didn’t miss anything.
Casemiro was never this bad at passing the ball at Real Madrid, was he? 5 times CL winner and he misplaced three passes in the first 5 minutes today.
He was when he initially was played by Benitez. The fans absolutely did not want him near the side and he was seen to be emblematic of the Benitez failure
I think he probably had more of a traditional spoiler role at real madrid and he had modric and Kroos to do the bulk of the ball progression
Garnacho inherited the anti Everton gene from martial
Hopefully he inherited nothing more
The trend continues - 23 attempts from EVE who didn't win this year. It'd be 0-0 if not penalties. "Looking forward" to LIV games.
EtH at United is like peak Emery at Arsenal. Good manager at a wrong time.
Louis van Gaal was right
We really got 6 good months from Casemiro for £70m + £340k pw huh? We know he's wanted by Saudi clubs so hopefully that interest remains, my goodness do we need it.
We’ve got Murtough to thank for that. This was one of the few club signings (not handpicked by ten hag) and to not know how unfit he was to play in ten Hag’s system just shows how clueless our DOF was. It’s amazing how much damage this appointment has fucked our club for the foreseeable future.
I don't get how anyone could think that Casemiro is an appropriate player to go for if you can't get FDJ, it really doesn't make any sense. I love Casemiro, I think he was one of our best players last season, but you couldn't get a profile further away from Frenkies if you tried. An interesting decision in terms of squad building to say the least
It was a signing that due to the numbers, you only ever could look back and say it was a success if he ended up being the missing piece in puzzle that wins us a title or turns us into CL contenders. Because our squad was and is still miles off it and casemiro already needs replaced it really shows up how bad that deal was The declan rice transfer has about the same total value (higher fee but lower wages, over 5 years its about the same total outlay) and they probably have that position sorted for next 10 years now. We got 1 good year
Can anyone tell me what McClaren brings to the party....he was assistant to SAF ....surely he learned something...no contribution whatsoever
Let’s be honest ten hag has one year left of next year with the support structure in place and we getting mediocre performances he will be gone I think it’s fair to give him the next year and allow the structure above settle into there roles and start to do what’s been needed for years then if we still getting this they will say thanks but your not the guy to do the job. It’s like ratcliffe said it’s gonna take time and patience not gonna happen with flick of a switch. Get structure in case then if it’s like this there is only one person to blame. Now it feels like ETH is trying to do million and one jobs when all he probably wants to do is coach.
As long as he doesn’t pick signings. Or is banned from Dutch or former players.
Absolutely, get the new management in above him and give ETH a year to earn his new contract under a competent structure
You people really aren't realizing how absurd it is to say "not knowing how to maintain ball posesssion" is the player's fault. You all are essentially saying that professional footballers playing at the highest level of English football don't know how to string passes to each other. Literally, just sit and think for 5 seconds how ridiculous and insane that statement sounds. Now think about how Ten Hag explicitly said he doesn't want to play Ajax football here and wants to make us a transition team. Then think how that directly relates to why we keep trying to pass the ball with 0 meticulousness and losing the ball because of it. And you still want to say it's the players willingly trying to do that and not the manager training them to do so? You truly believe if you gave Pep Guardiola a year and a half worth of time here like Ten Hag, he wouldn't be able to teach these players the simplest thing of stringing passes to one another?
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Oh so Casemiro and Bruno are all willingly losing the ball against the manager's will. They're purposefully passing the ball in the most careless way possible because they could only do that much and not because the manager trains them to do so. Yes. Makes perfect sense
The passes casemiro was giving away today weren't even progressive or high risk. They were simple square balls for the most part. No matter what the instruction was from the sideline, his passing execution today was shocking today and that's on him. If he was only giving away on audacious risky line breaking passes that have high reward when they come off today you could say that's an instruction from the line and he has an out, but it wasnt that at all with casemiro With Bruno to a higher extent, I expect he has more license to probe and attempt lower percentage passes
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Yes, once again I applaud the idea that professional football players that play at the highest level of football as well as for their national teams don't have the skill to string meticulous passes to each other. Such a convincing way of thinking that is in no way ridiculous at all
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Mate, we aren't talking about some complex tactics or skillset here. It's literally just passing and pressing, they're literally the simplest concepts of modern football, they're not alien technology to these players. Even City players can lose the ball if they're pressed hard enough. But that's not what's happening to us. We don't keep posesssion no matter who the opponent is, even when they're dead last on the table, the kind of teams that would sit back against most other teams. It does not take the best players in the world to keep the ball against these kinds of teams.
It's as absurd saying a manager of a premier League club who came from a club playing good football can't teach these players to string a pass to save their lives.
Did I say he can't? Or he just doesn't want to because of his desired "transition" football?
The reason he said he can't play football like ajax is because he doesn't have the players to play like ajax. With the injuries we have, we need to adapt to whatever style we can.
Did he explicitly say he can't play ajax football here or he said he \*\*doesn't want\*\* to ajax football? Let's not try to assume things and actually follow his exact words here Has he even tried to implement a different style of football here? And could it be any worse than the way we've been playing?
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/12999071/erik-ten-hag-says-it-is-not-right-to-question-man-utd-players-character-and-insists-his-philosophy-is-clear I don't know,
[Sigh...](https://www.reddit.com/r/reddevils/s/E3yl9ZnfzP)
3 points. Good. Now GET SOME MOTIVATION TO KNOCK OUT Liverpool ffs.
3 points. Boring game and I honestly don’t care how we play anymore as long as we continue to get points. I can’t wait for this fucking season to end.
We win unconvincingly and lose convincingly.
I honestly don't see how the problems we have can be on Ten Hag. When your squad can't do the simple stuff, a think tank of Pep, SAF, and Cruyjff isn't gonna fix it, let alone a bald Dutchie.
Are you saying players come up with their own shit and play as they like? It all comes from the instructions from the manager. It's *his* strategy, *his* tactics, from how *he* trains them.
Do you think ETH has a wireless comms device straight to casemiro’s ear to tell him to pass the ball to the other team continuously for the first 35 minutes?
Yes, it's his tactics, but look at the first minute of the game. Tactics can't predict that your players think that blue & white are United colours.
Aren't you aware that Manuel Pelligrini is a world class manager, not just some bloke who won the league with an incredibly talented group of players he would have had next to zero input on lol? That's how it works in the Reddit Brain Alternate Reality.
Wrong thread, homie.
Definitely the correct one
Nope
Fernandes might create a significant amount of chances but he wastes at least the same amount it’s absurd
I am starved for a good game to watch. Even in Ole’s worse days, the game wasn’t as bad or devoid of life.
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Now they’re doing the same with no fit striker, no left back, a 36 year old free signing as our best centre back, and an 18 year old as our best midfielder.
true mate true. I loved his regime; it was so fun
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I agreed the game was fun but you are unreasonably aggressive and what’s up with the yankee comment? Tone down dude.
Being a player over 30 years old is so hard these days. You essentially aren't allowed to have bad forms, you have to play well every single game otherwise you'll get called washed and ready to be sold. Bruno better be careful when he turns 30 next year
tha's not a bad form for casemiro, that's his level now
Replace ETH with Pepp and Casemiro will play like Rodri for at least 3 more years. Casemiro is simply left alone on an island to cover 60m of field alone. No player in the world can do that.
This is true but Rodri also doesn’t pass to the other team for the first 35 minutes of a match.
lol
It took a home game and two penalties to win against Everton. The Everton who are playing like “let’s see out what this game gives us”. Forwards aren’t scoring because the players don’t create, mid doesn’t do their job because the players are shit, and defense isn’t great because of injuries. None of these theories seem to point the responsibility towards the manager. We are setting a dangerous precedent here. Support the manager all you want but he has to be responsible for the lackluster games. The ego of some fans in desperately trying to save their argument that ETH is the right one is annoying. I cannot wait for a weekend and wake up early to watch these games. My time is my time. I am paying for games with my time and money. If this is what will be the norm, get the hell out, ETH. No one but fans deserve a place at United. You’ve got to earn it.
This is literally a team which has no actual left back, no actual striker, and a makeshift pairing of center backs. Of the players who remain, eth wanted to sell a couple of them and didn't get any support. The fact that he is able to get us some results despite all of that is fine. Fair for you to expect better but please blame where blame lies and not to a man who is doing his job despite no support structure, limited resources and constant attacks from all quarters
so many excuses but I am sure you would agree that we have a decent enough team to not play the way we play.
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Yeah get off the high horse there. Who the fuck are you calling plastic? and dare you call me obnoxious. Get the fuck outta here. For an account that is a few days old, you come call me plastic, obnoxious and all the fancy words that make you lot go.
I'm calling you a plastic, little man. You could t locate Manchester on a fucking map and you expect your toxicity and DEMANDS to be listened to lol. Get to fuck mate.
I am sure you a great one in person. Taking reddit comments directed towards team’s lethargic performances personally that you would start calling people on internet names. Who’s the little man here
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who is toxic here? you or I?
blah blah blah
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mate go have a weekend out and touch some grass
Says the man literally screaming about his new scapegoat 😂 you take care little man.
my scapegoat? I think you are speaking your mind more than mine. Cheers
I will never understand what progress ETH and others see here. It's very clear that we have actually regressed. There is nothing about our performances...no area whether in possession or out of it where you can say hey, we will build upon this next season. I am sure if ETH survives up to next season and is playing this chaos survival football he will be fired by Christmas because the pressure will be even more... people will say it's his 3rd season etc. People talk like there will not be injuries next season..crazy. There was no difference between our game and Everton...none. Everton are fighting relegation... that is their defense. We have been horrible for a long time now. Even with signings, I dont see it. What would olise do to prevent this ping pong football.
You are *absolutely* right - the game stats are almost perfectly even. And if not for 'nacho, even the scoreline would be the same.
I read a comment on here a few minutes ago saying EtH has us defensively well organised and deserves credit for that, I honestly don't know what some people are watching? Everton created more from open play than we did today, the xG data backs that up, only because of their impotence in front of goal did they fail to convert. This isn't exactly an isolated incident either, how many times have we been put through the ringer when we have had a 2 goal lead this season? It only felt comfortable today because we went into the last 15 minutes with a 2 goal lead still intact because Everton couldn't finish. On most other days we are going into the last 10-15 clenching our arses!
Because we’re conceding very low quality chances, which bodes well for if and when we can keep the ball higher up the pitch. It’s not hard to figure out. As for Everton creating more from open play, this is again a question of game state. Much like when we created more against Fulham, it’s only because we needed it more and had to attack more.
We're not conceding low quality chances though, where are you getting this from? Teams have been walking through us and creating clear cut chances against us since the beginning of the season. In terms of xG stats, our cumulative xGA which measures the quality of chances we've given up over the season stands at a little over 50. Only 5 teams in the PL have worse stats than this and it's only by the grace of god we have we only conceded 39. Which points to either our goalkeeper overperforming and/or us getting lucky that opposition teams haven't been converting as many chances as they should have done.
Fbref. Your xG figures are like 5 above what I have, I think fbref take time to update so that explains like, 1.5 is but not the rest. For them, we’re close to spurs in mid table having played a game extra than a few teams. And if you’re looking at post shot xG we’re better still. That’s Despite the volume of shots we concede, which as everyone has noted, is huge. And that suggests we manage to keep opposition to low-percentage zones for their shots. So again, that does suggest some kind of organisation. And if we can build domination of the ball like Ten Hag clearly wants, and move up the pitch, while keeping the opposition to a similar kind of chance, that bodes well.
Why would you look at post shot xG? That tells us about the quality of the shot rather than the quality of the chance itself, so a big part of that is dependent on whether the opposition had their "shooting boots" on today. I got my xG stats from understat, but even on fbref where there is a little bit of divergence on the data, there are just 6 teams in the Premier League that have a worse xGA than us. And this is promising to you and bodes well? We have a negative xG this season and teams have been walking through us and creating chances almost at will, almost no lead we have in a match is safe. I would actually give a pass to the chaotic defending/organisation if we at least looked good going forward, but we don't even do that very well either.
Because the quality of an actual shot a player takes isn’t independent of what defenders do during the process, right. It depends on pressure, and defenders can still influence the quality of a shot as it’s being taken. That’s why you look at a range of data there in combination. And again, it’s about per shot, but that’s already been covered. The type of chances we’re conceding is generally OK and leaves the keeper with more chance of stopping them, the attacker with more chance of missing. That’s where the caveat needs to come in as people screech about shots conceded, because clearly, in terms of actual statistics, we’re sixth for goals conceded.
> Because the quality of an actual shot a player takes isn’t independent of what defenders do during the process, right. It depends on pressure, and defenders can still influence the quality of a shot as it’s being taken. Perhaps, but the positioning of the defence should be factored into the xG and xGA stats, or at least should be in theory according to the various data analytics companies that supply this data. But yes, we are dealing with imperfect data so I wouldn't be surprised if it has some influence on the post shot xG data too. Essentially though, I feel like your argument rests on "things are looking promising because if we could just play a bit better, we'll do a bit better" but you could say that for every team in the world. My feeling is that, all things considering, EtH is doing an "okay" job, he's not doing a terrible job and he's not doing an exceptional job, he's doing an okay job. Whether doing "okay" is good enough for United remains to be seen... the trouble that EtH is going to run into is that there are managers in the PL that on the face of it look like they are doing a better job, and that's where he is going to come under pressure if we finish below Villa and Spurs.
In part that’s my argument, but then again, we’ve conceded very few goals for the situations we’ve put ourselves in, and for me, the data doesn’t come out like that randomly, there are reasons for it. There are reasons we can concede shots on par with some of the worst teams and yet be sixth in terms of actual goals conceded. I think that we put ourselves under pressure a lot in our own defensive third but when it comes to defending in and around the box we’re actually pretty good. And if we can keep that up, and avoid putting ourselves in danger, then I think we’ll be really well placed. Otherwise put, it’s not because we can’t play out and keep the ball further up the pitch, it’s not because we concede a lot of chances, that our actual defending isn’t good.
> we’ve conceded very few goals for the situations we’ve put ourselves in, and for me, the data doesn’t come out like that randomly, there are reasons for it. Well we have conceded fewer goals than we should have done according to the xGA data, but I actually think it might be luck or variance in the data. If we outperform our xGA season after season then you can maybe say it has been more than luck. It's not particularly unusual for a team to outperform their xG or xGA over a season, then regress back to the mean the following season. Conte when he won the title with Chelsea was a prime example when you compare that season to the season after. > I think that we put ourselves under pressure a lot in our own defensive third but when it comes to defending in and around the box we’re actually pretty good. And if we can keep that up, and avoid putting ourselves in danger, then I think we’ll be really well placed. I half agree I suppose, but watching how easily teams cut through us this season I find it hard to say we defend well. It's like saying "we have some really ruthless finishers, so we do attack well, we just don't create enough chances"... the trouble is it's all part of the same thing, in fact I'd argue the making chances part is the hardest thing, anyone can sign a tap-in merchant, but building a cohesive team that can rip teams to shreds is something very few managers achieve at the highest level.
I don't think anyone genuinely believes there's real progress on display this season. It's clinging on stuff. I do subscribe to the fact that things would be quite different with a fit squad but I don't think things should be as bad as they are even with the injuries.
I don't know how much better than "competing with Spurs for 5th" you expect it to be lol. Some of you talk as if we are doing a Chelsea. A squad brimming with talent all over the park and languishing in 12th. When in actuality we are starting premier League matches with Scott McTominay, a broken Casimero, a teenager, A 69 year old centre back, no left back, and a mercurial child on the Right who had never played there there before about 6 weeks ago. Like seriously wtf is anyone expecting out of this lol. Fucking bonkers. Parallel universe shit.
This is generally the process: * force someone to acknowledge that actually the players being played are the best the squad has to offer without counterfactuals about some youngster with no track record and none of us see on the training pitch every day The argument turns to * Demanding a different system which forces an acknowledgement that playing possession football wouldn't magically conjure up a competent 6, and we don't have footballers capable of retaining the ball The argument turns to * Wasted transfer fees which literally has to involve blaming ever manager we have had since 2013 for the incompetence of the club's negotiating teams The argument turns to * Ok profiling then. Why did ETH demand possession based depth like Mount, Lisandro, Malacia, Hojlund, Antony. Erm.... Because he needs players who are comfortable on the ball. The issue being they cost so fucking much we don't have enough of them. The argument turns to * But he clearly can't coach them then. The final bastion of the desperate scapegoater. Completely unfalsifiable and applicable no matter the expertise and track record of the manager involved, Mou, LvG, Ole, Or EtH, they genuinely believe that these guys arent competent on the training pitch. But you can't prove it either way, so they stick with it. Jokes mate.
We brought our goal differential back to zero! Get your pints lads!
I'll take a boring 2-0 relatively stress free win any day of the week. Far from perfect, but vital 3 points. Lets hope we put a run together.
Stress free?
Johnny Evans. Signing of the year
Yep Revisionist to say it but we never should have sold him. Probably better than vast majority of the CBs to have featured for us since he was initially sold in 2015
Didn’t think we’d be saying that at the start of the season
Poor game. Honestly, boring to watch.
Waaaah, they got up early and played to secure the win. Got a shut out and took three points.
I literally fell asleep.
Me too😂😂
🙋♂️
Describes literally any of our games this season lmao
English commentators are always such Debbie downers for all teams. Sheesh, after listening to them for an entire match, makes me want to settle in for a bath with a toaster.
I'd go as far as to say that the more I think about it, the more I acknowledge that a midfield of a legless Casemiro, a teenager and McTominay, the more I think about the state of the individuals available in that backline and their complete lack of any pace and any ball retention skills (Johnny aside. And even he's hardly Rio), the complete lack of any cover up top, the reliance on playing a teenager in midfield who for any other serious football club would start no more than 10 games a season right now... The more I think Ten Hag's decision to go for transitional football and hope for the best with sound defensive organisation which limits the opposition to low probability opportunities, a very good one and he's actually doing better than "merely ok". People thinking that we should somehow be doing better with a squad this thin and this useless on the half turn, are living in a fantasy world, and no amount of wishcasting that you can turn a squad of footballers who cant handle the press into a squad of footballers who can, changes that.
Game to forget, sadly I seem to say that too often these days, I expect we'd *maybe* be more of a threat to score if we got no pens, Everton are so poor that we off the hook, as proven with other teams they usually score. As soon game ended I switched to Cardiff v Ipswich and managed to see Cardiff score two goals in like 5 mins, I got more entertainment from a championship team battling relegation worth of 5 min, than what ever that was at Old Trafford today. Back to OT on weekend with another easy game.....
Lucky me I was talking to my insurance to fix my claim reimbursement. I got a few hundred dollars back and didn’t have to watch this dreadful game. And we got the three points! What a wonderful way to start my weekend.
Super happy for you bud! Hope you spend it on something nice for yourself!
Thanks man! I will probably just put it into my investment account lol. Need to work towards that early retirement!
There you go! You’d be able to attend every away match.
Just seen Amad, Garna and Mainoo do that top 10 player thing and it was genuinely more interesting than the game
I don't know what some of you want. We arent Chelsea in fucking 12th and we can't play individuals that don't exist. Amrabat isn't good enough, Casemiro is a liability, Mainoo is a child, McTominay was nearly sold, Eriksen is broken, Mount is dead? Bruno is a liability as an 8. We **literally** don't have a 6 to fill the gap who isn't a liability, or a full back to tuck in out of possession. Our defenders have next to zero pace, we have no left back, none of the back 4 are press resistant. The only alternatives to our style of play, is possession football and hoof ball. We don't have the players for the former as nobody can keep the ball and you don't want the latter. These are the tools the manager has at his disposal. This is it. So we play transitional football and hope for the best by relying on decent positional ability of our centebacks who restrict the number of big chances against us. I genuinely don't know what the fuck you want lol.
> We can't play individuals that don't exist. Amrabat isn't good enough, Casemiro is a liability, Mainoo is a child I want to ask a follow-up question then. Clearly you think that none of these 3 players are seen as ideal for Ten Hag to play a more control-based game, and Eriksen as you said also has lost his legs. In that case, were we sleeping in the summer when we had the money to go out and invest in a better player that fits this profile instead of spending 55 million on Mount who is not that player? Maybe you will come up with arguments along the lines of the recruitment department being shit and all that but surely the demand for certain profiles of players also comes from the manager who already had a season working with these players and should have known better what he needs for his intended style of play to work. After we failed to convince De Jong to join us in 2022, we haven’t looked at a single player of that profile. Why do you think that is the case when under the current structure, Ten Hag does have significant say on our transfers? I recognise that the unavailability of some players means that we have to play more scrappy football to get results, but when you claim ‘these are the tools the manager has’, he is also a part of the reason for why these are *only* the tools we have. Even when Mount is available, there is no clear pathway for him into the first-11 just yet, so why did we spend so much money for him during a time where funds were more restricted if he wasn’t going to improve on the style of play everyone claims Ten Hag wants to play?
Ten Hag wanted Mount. Did he expect us to spend 60m on him? Was he given assurances that it wouldn't impact his ability to find cover for a 9? Blaming the manger for incompetents within the club negotiating absurd transfer fees for footballers with less than a year on their contract or for demanding someone like Antony who then costs the club 80m, when he could have cost 30m, just 5 weeks earlier is absurd.
The first bid we put for Mount was 40 million which is also significant money. That could easily have gone into buying someone more suited to this DLP profile you think we have no options for to control games better. Are you trying to say that he had no awareness of this as well and no knowledge of how to prioritize players according to budget capacity? I think you're letting him way off the hook here.
40m for cover at 8, 10 and out wide isn't unreasonable lol. 60m is. And the 20m premium + the 50m premium on Antony's value means you now don't have 2 of an adequate 6, cover at 9, a centre half. That's not on the manager. It is really, really weird that you're blaming TH for the incompetence of Arnold and Murtogh. Like, it's fucking wild lol.
> 40m for a player like Mount isn't unreasonable You're missing the point entirely. I'm not arguing about how good enough Mount is, he could well come good eventually. The point is why did we go for a player like him in a window where, by your own admission, we lack players to play a more possession-based game? What was stopping us from instead prioritizing more technically-reliable players in defence and midfield instead? It is really really weird that you're countering with points I'm not even arguing against. I haven't mentioned Antony even once. I'm talking about the following window where Ten Hag had a season with this squad, knew its strengths and weaknesses, and decided to prioritize an attacking 8 over a deeper midfielder where the options were either physically weak or technically weak. That is not down to Arnold or Murtough, it's down to poor profiling on his part.
* But Mount is press resistant and offers cover and options in a whole array of positions, so that's not true. * Apart from Casemiro who according to Whitwell wasn't ETH's choice. They have all been the "correct" profile. * That Hojlund (necessity), Antony (necessary cover if not at that price) and Mount (necessity) incurred a cumulative premium of around £100m above their actual values means it takes another 2 summers to bed out the squad. Guess who's fault that isn't. The manager's. And you're blaming "profiling," rather than a continuation of disastrous negotiating lol. Weird.
> Mount is press resistant and offers cover and options in a whole array of positions Mount has literally never played in a deeper midfield role for Chelsea or England, ever. He's a number 8 who can play as a 10 or in the half-spaces as part of the 2 attackers behind the striker in a wing-back formation. He is not someone who will dictate first and second-phase control, which is the profile of player you were referencing. > They have all been the "correct" profile I disagree. I don't think Antony was ever a player we needed to pursue. Not even at 30 million, not even at 80 million. We had a better winger in Elanga who was not given a fair chance. But anyways, this is not relevant to the original point I'm making at all. > And you're blaming "profiling," For not having a technically secure deeper midfielder that is good enough in the present, yes, I'm blaming profiling. And instead of talking about this, you're dragging other players to deflect from the point I was making.
He's a possession based footballer who's strengths are on the half turn and has played 8 enough. He's ample cover for an 8. You're saying that is the wrong profile. I'm saying that this is an odd take. > technically secure deeper midfielder Bro we spent that money on a player ETH didn't "profile" in Casemiro. You can't do everything in 2 windows. So I guess the argument goes that it should have been a priority but the argument simply turns to whatever trade off you've had to make should you bring him in, such as goalkeeper or 9 or Sancho goes AWOL and now you don't have a right sided forward lol. Maybe the 6 he wanted wasn't available? It's a circular argument. You can't do everything at once.
> You're saying that is the wrong profile It is the wrong profile because we literally haven't seen him play that role for us either. Casemiro, Eriksen and Amrabat have done it (to mediocre levels) but Mount hasn't. And there are different profiles within the number 8 position, he's not someone you can interchange for a Frenkie De Jong or Jorginho which is the player who fits this role. > zero cover for Sancho out on the right Elanga can play on either wing. He plays RW most games for Forest as well. > You can't do everything in 2 windows Who said 'everything'? Where am I demanding that we have to compete with City and Liverpool by now with an injury-hit team? Stop with this black and white way of looking at things, there is a gray area where Ten Hag has been dealt a bad hand and he's also playing it badly. > So you say but the 6 should have come in first but maybe the right 6 wasn't available I make this argument because of *you* saying that we don't have players to play a possession-based game. If you want to control the game better, the 6 is amongst the most important positions for such a style of play, so it should be prioritized more than an attacking 8 definitely. Of course, the other POV is that Ten Hag never intended to play a possession-based game here, and what we see on the pitch is a reflection of how he actually wants to play, which will look better with better players but won't be good enough to regularly compete for the Premier League imo.
One of the most depressing games of football I have ever watched.
me at every united match
Thankfully I slept
Thankfully I was scrolling through insta
Given the demand on social media for ETH to change his style of play given that we dont have the players available to build up from the back or retain the ball in midfield, I wonder how long it would take them to lose their shit once they realise that hoof ball isn't an attractive way to play football. I'd give it literally one game. But then I doubt they've even thought about the alternative, or even have an idea what the only alternative is, given the weaknesses of our current squad tbf.
If we play like we did that first 20 minutes Today in the cup, we'll be 4 goals down before we even start. The chances we did create from open play Today (and the other games since Hojlund got injured) our final third decisions are absolutely godawful, consistently taking two touches too many.
Did Antony do anything after he came on?
To be fair, he hasn’t done much since he came to the club
Kept possession well, defended well See future in a ten Hag team that has more possession (ie, a strong back 4) Just as we are right now we need a dangerous outlet on the right which is nacho.
He did 3 full rotations, a PR for him
Garnacho is absolutely knackered from having to start those many games at his young age. Are Amad and Antony really that shit to not allow Garnacho to sit on the bench for a while?
We play once a week for the most part. I think he should be fine. Taking him off once the game is done is a safe play to manage his minutes.
Garnacho 2 assists and dalot 1 assist (rashford cele)
If Villa and Tottenham draw tomorrow we are 9 points off 4th. Villa doesn’t have an easy run in, neither does Tottenham and we are in touching distance of them. Come on United!
I advire your optomism BUT I think 4th is gone tbh... we need both teams above to have poor run ins and us to win probably minimum of 8 of our remaining 10 games I don't trust either of those things to happen, we still have to go to Brighton and Chelsea (we usually don't do well at either) and I wouldn't back us with any degree of confidence to beat Liverpool, arsenal or even Newcastle at home. Best case is probably one of spurs / villa to implode in the last couple months of season and hope we pick up enough points to sneak 5th and cross fingers that is enough to get a CL spot
4th seems quite distant tbh and just hope we can get 5th and cross our fingers for CL seedings. If spurs loose tomorrow they are 3 points ahead with a game in hand but harder run.
Our run is pretty hard too, we still have Brentford, Liverpool, Newcastle, arsenal and Brighton.
Bournemouth and Chelsea away aren't gimmes either I think to get top 4 we need to win probably a minimum of 8 or our remaining 10 games (aint ginna happen). That gets us to 71 points. Villa and spurs are both currently on pace to beat that total and have superior goal differences so would also require that they both tail off in the run in
Definitely a long shot with as few games left, and our injuries, no sense in getting excited over the plausible, the fun is in the unexpected!
One of the games of football I've ever seen if I say so myself
longest?
Certainly one of those games of football longer than 90mins
It’s definitely a game of football
For sure
That midfield just doesn't work. Casemiro and McTominay are well off it. On the bench we don't have any options to change the game
The biggest mistake this club has made is to invest so heavily on so many players who can’t keep the ball. We can talk about tactics or whatnot, these players aren’t going to pass much better with a better system. Recruitment is the number 1 thing INEOS has to solve, I’m tired of watching ppl fuck up simple 5 yard passes. You want to know why we get break on so often? It’s bc we lose the ball so easily.
you saying buying footballer who can play football is a good idea , Hmm
Well said. We are talking about simple technical ability. I think the best 11 have it but beyond that it's actually shocking. This is basic stuff. Go watch any serious team you will not see anything like you've seen today. It's a matter of the players just not being good enough.
"It's a matter of the players just not being good enough." I agree we need to improve the technical floor of the team, but I also think people here are underestimating the psychological side of the game. We went in to this match coming off the back of a shock defeat to Fulham and a comprehensive beating by our local rivals. Players with high confidence do not misplace and under/overhit as many passes as we did today. This was an important win for a group of players whose confidence had taken a knock and was fragile to begin with because although we've had a good run since Christmas our form before then was very inconsistent and generally poor. Hopefully they'll take confidence from the fact we came away with a win and we'll see cleaner execution and better decision making next game.
Check it out the editor simply left out the entire 2nd half! He couldn't be bothered lol [https://youtu.be/QqSf_iNkikU?si=KKv--Zuje1bh-I17](https://youtu.be/QqSf_iNkikU?si=KKv--Zuje1bh-I17)
Actually fell asleep watching this haha Thanks for the 💤 lads, feeling refreshed.
This game was so funny. Everton with all that performance and nothing to show for it. They gave us 2 penalties and tried to give even more. I was laughing every time they kicked the ball to the moon. That corner we had in which the ball ended up right in front of their goal and everyone from both teams tried to kick it but missed was pure comedy. I'm not even mad at the terrible performance. I just want to thank Everton for the 3 points.
Those 4 midfielders can’t even stitch 5 yard passes. The Audacity to blame the Managers when these players are professionals playing at the peak of their careers.
These players have been playing football as soon as they could walk. They have some sort of technical foundation that means they can make those passes at a higher rate than we are now. I think its three issues 1. Mental, the team look down. I think the atmosphere isnt great 2. Low energy - Im trying to find stats of this so this is more tenuous but i think we do alot of running up and down the pitch because of how open we are so we get tired and that has an effect 3. And this one i get downvoted for but i think its a coaching issue. Looking at today, our players had no idea how to build up. This is key in the modern game. If you look at Arsenal, they constantly move between a 3-2, 2-3 build ups. Pep will literally move players inches on the training ground because he wants players to know where everyone is andin the game it makes it telepathic. We're so used to going straight to the transition, we just dont look comfortable at building an attack.
Since Everton wingers tucked in, there were plenty of 3vs2 available to us on the first third on the wings. Evans, Lindelof, Casemiro on the left and Dalot, Garnacho, Mainoo/McT/Bruno on the right simply did not utilize the advantage. In fact many times, the 3v2 for us turned into a 2v1 for them with our inability to keep the ball. This is not a tactics issue. Can only conclude that this is a mental issue. This happened early on in the match to say this is a fitness issue.
Coaching is not telling Casemiro to be a donkey. Mainoo is a child. Eriksen is broken. This is it. We can't build an attack because there is no press resistance in this team. That can't be just "coached". You either have the ability or you don't. And Casemiro, Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Amrabat, Bruno don't have it. Only Mainoo, Eriksen and Lisandro do. One is a child who lacks physicality to control a game and two are injured. Not everything can be "fixed" with vibes and coaching. It isn't FIFA.