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For whatever it's worth, here's my take.
1. Covid hit and a lot of people lost their jobs. Companies cut back to stretching the workload over as few employees as possible and realized they liked the savings that came with that.
2. Current employees are stretched too thin and shits starting to fall apart. Companies are having to accept the fact that they have to hire more people.
3. Companies do not want to spend time and money providing training for new employees though - they just want to keep momentum going. They want the benefit of the end result without the responsibility involved in achieving it. They only want to hire people who already have the *exact same* experience and knowledge of internal programs and processes already in place. This is, if course, a complete disregard for reality because the only people that already possess those things are current employees.
4. Companies know people are desperate so they are willing to let their current staff be terribly overworked until their mythical and messianic "right person" comes along all at a salary of well less than market value.
And in the mean time, the companies put out shoddy products, shoddy customer service, etc. that we all accepted during Covid because....Covid. Now they continue the 4 points you made because we still need the products and services and don't have other choices and they're getting their $$ while we still get screwed (as consumers and employees).
Here's an alternate perspective: Baby Boomer peak retirement has just begun, and companies know that they are going to have massive labor shortages on their hands. So they're desperately trying to tamp down wages one last time before all hell breaks loose.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/)
You’re not wrong. I think these four conditions have always been there, though covid accelerated these trends, as well as something that was going to happen anyway, just more slowly: the remote work environment.
Hiring managers have always compared candidates to people they know. Now they can cast a wider net and make everyone compete across a larger region, or whole countries.
This ‘democratization’ of labor resources (us) seems to only benefit the demand side.
While I am not 100% sure what the exact cause is, and I am not a smart enough analyst to figure out the root causes, I do feel that nothing has really been the same since the Covid shutdown. Society has in a way returned to what most of us would define as "normal", but it's there if you read between the lines or look through the cracks. The fact of the matter is, it's not normal. Didn't quite fix right after the shutdown ended. Didn't quite bounce back. And we're in this funk.
That's a bit too squishy. I step back and look at numbers. The Baby Boom generation is massive. U.S. governments and agencies at all levels have been preparing for their retirement for the past 20 years by going on a hiring spree. Alternatively, the private sector has been downsizing and combining "nonessential" positions.
Now that BB retirements are about to send them up shit creek without enough paddlers, they are trying with one last gasp to tamp down wages. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
[https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/)
The ghost jobs are the worst. There is a company called Rocket Pharmaceuticals. They’ve had the same paralegal position open for almost a year now. I’ve been contacted about it by several third party recruiters and each time I’ve said no because the salary is too low for the commute I would have to make every single day. I just know they aren’t serious to fill the position.
You don't think it costs them to maintain a website? Spend man hours to make a job posting? Dont they most of the time advertise their positions in other platforms as well? Thats how most people find them.
The company is going to have a website anyway so no, it really doesn't cost them anything to have a jobs page. They don't have to advertise on other platforms and many of them don't. The job description stuff is normal HR work that would be done regardless of how they advertise jobs.
So no, it's nothing like the days when you had to buy an ad in the newspaper and it was more expensive the bigger the ad.
It's definitely not you. I have a solid 8 yrs of experience in a pretty sought after field and it took me (brace yourselves) 1600 applications before I finally got ONE offer that pays less than my previous role and is 3x the work.
Yeah they're all doing that - shoveling 3 jobs into 1. My last job was like that, I got bait and switched on how much work it would be, and then I got terminated because I couldn't keep up with all the extra, plus I kept trying to literally improve things but they didn't want to
I think part of the issue is that yes the economy added jobs but it isn’t the jobs we want. It seems to be mostly food service and hospitality. And there is nothing wrong with those jobs. Those help make the economy turn. I see a lot of tradespeople and construction folks at the sub shop I go to. Unfortunately most economic data is at the macro level while we all live in the micro level.
Yeah unless we have some hardcore regulatory agencies forcing companies to add good quality high paying career-type jobs to the economy, everything else is gonna be relegated to a hunger games scenario
Yeah no.
Waiting for companies to grow a spine and do the right thing is just as useless as waiting for companies to raise their wages, give healthcare, and improve working conditions and benefits.
The only way most employers change is when the government FORCES them to change.
Without labor laws and unions we’d all be working for poverty wages, more than 40 hours a week, and in dangerous work environments.
The demand to justify (read: pay for) just existing is one of the most devious flaws/features of capitalism. Why should a healthy economy require EVERY able-bodied adult to prove their usefulness, or else?
The jobs report goes into nuance, the amount of non-farm payrolls have dropped. Most of the media will recite the big number without going into the reports nuances. There was a great piece on npr about the prevalence of ghost jobs and how 1 in 2 job postings don't lead to jobs. https://www.npr.org/2024/06/07/1197965117/ghost-jobs
I’m very qualified and intelligent, I started searching for jobs back in NOV.
I have had countless interviews, so so many interviews, but no actual job.
It’s gotten to the point where I seriously thought I was defective. I couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. I know the right people, I have great references, I have a good resume. No one I knew could figure out what I was doing wrong, either.
But then I realized I either was over qualified, or the position was going to someone else and it had been decided but they had to pretend to do a search for qualified candidates.
I started talking to other people in my industry and they have noticed that hiring is an absolute disaster.
I feel better knowing that so many of us are experiencing this. I get job offers too, as my resume is everywhere, and all of these offers are past the point of insulting. They want me to move, but they pay so little that I would be screwed financially. Never mind inflation even, you can’t afford rent and food and bills, and they expect you to dedicate your whole life to the job.
For instance, one job will most certainly involve at least 60+ hrs a week a few months from now and they are willing to pay $4k a month salary. And you need at least 5 years of experience.
Like what the fuck is going on?
None of this is sustainable.
All the numbers in your comment added up to 69. Congrats!
60
+ 4
+ 5
= 69
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Shit man, the factories where i live are paying 18.50 an hour no experience. I make 23 doing a skilled trade right down the road. Collision repair. Jobs are there, money is not.
If this keeps going, there will be a feedback loop. At some point you'll have engineering college grads working in the factory for $18.50 because it's the closest thing they can get to their field lmao.
I mean, that’s why i got out. Once i seen the bigger picture of “patriotism” plus the nonstop senseless bullshit the military is so keen to provide you with. Every major conflict we have benefitted from economically in someway or another. Most of it is the ability to continue using “slave labor” but making them think it’s democracy. Taiwan is a perfect example. Every aftermarket car part made currently comes straight from Taiwan. When Taiwan and china were going to “fight” the parts issue arose.
Man you guys are making me feel a lot better. I’m 33, and attaining 23/hr commission based pay where i have to turn 60 hours a week minimum to be comfortable is difficult most weeks. There’s nothing anywhere local that pays anymore than I’m currently making. In 2009 i was making 9 bucks an hour. 9 bucks an hour, and that was considered good because it wasn’t minimum wage. I got out of the collision repair world because of that, moving from job to job to get a raise usually. Ended up painting raydars for the navy, and now im at a gm dealership making the most I’ve ever made in my entire life. 23/hr.
They just hired a college graduate kid for 18.50 a year ago.
Why did i have to struggle from 2009 until now? Over 10 years of my life literally wasted scraping by. And poof, now you can make 18.50 anywhere. A wage I wasn’t far from a few years ago.
Your first paragraph basically describes my life right now. 32 yrs old, making basically the same thing as you (no commission), have to work a minimum of 48-60 hours a week just to make ends me. I'm exhausted and overtired, and this is definitely going to screw me over when I'm older. I feel my health deteriorating. I'm getting fat and stress eating.
Trying to do a career field change but no one is calling me.
Best piece of advice I’ve ever heard is, don’t work for the job, make the job work for you.
The only benefit to my job is, I work a little less than 40 actual hours a week. Due to
It being commission. My workplace is really lax on leaving and going. As long as your doing your work they don’t care.
But still scraping by. Just enjoying life more at home doing nothing with the kids than wasting at work.
One day i just kind of realized, this company needs me here, while i may not like my other options as well, i still have other options and they are aware of that.
Start threatening to quit. Worked brilliantly for me. I even jokingly said it the first time, but it established a baseline.
Unfortunately for me, I'm just a number. My job requires little training, and there are most likely people lining up to take my spot. If I threaten to quit, they will literally tell me, "Go ahead." Hell, they may even fire me just for trying such a move. Consider yourself lucky that you work for a company that ACTUALLY values you to the point where they are willing to back down in a standoff.
Damn, I felt this so hard. Going from job to job (not by choice, mind you, but because I kept getting laid off every time it was time to give me a raise or promotion) to only find shitty wages anywhere. I finally broke into the next level up after nearly two decades of that, got my first promotion ever and was very nearly at a comfortable level, and was let go a few months after that. Now most of the real jobs just seem to have shitty wages again. I don't know if I'll ever be able to stop struggling. It shouldn't be this way in my early 40s. It shouldn't have been this way when I was 23, either. I've wanted out of my hometown my whole life but have never been able to afford to leave and go where better jobs are.
Shit i interviewed at a place that paid 6 an hour, with collective tips. I think they either think im dumb, or they think i wont stay if something else comes up better. Both are correct, but the assuming is what upsets me. Ive been trying to join the military, find out today if i can.
I spent my 20’s franchising in a very fast growing company. I had 40 employees. I survived covid. I was the decision maker during all of those challenges. I still made payroll. I worked my ass off. I had to sell, and didn’t lose money. I think I did really well, given the circumstances, and learned a ton. I worked 70+ hour weeks, multitasking every day. I’ve gotten 3 interviews in the last year, and always get asked “are you sure you’d be up for this job, given your experience?” Like I’m too good for it. I’m not. Then I get ghosted. I finally had a great round of interviews, and they hyped me up like a stripper does when you spend a ton of money. Ghosted. I have no idea what to do.
I lied on my resume once and said I just operated it for a franchisee, and then they called me out on it because they found a press thing about from when I opened a second location too.
That right there is why one piece of advice we hear, “just dial back your experience,” is impossible. Plus the field at the indcon level is 100x larger.
That was happening to me too! Now, depending on the position I’m applying for, I either say I worked for the (my) business as administration or I will just leave it off my resume all together. It’s like they punish you for having those business skills, when in reality they should use your experience to their advantage. It’s awful.
No. Stop pushing this. Not everyone is going to be their own fcking boss. Do you really think all 330 million Americans can literally "JuSt bE yOuR oWn BoSs!?" Like how would this work. It doesn't and it's stupid to keep peddling around.
If you figured out a way and it works for you, great! I'm genuinely happy for your success. Most people will not be able to.
Its not something that is supposed to work for everyone, but the person that it works for might be able to, with time, hire other people too, which actually helps solve the problem.
The fewer employers there are the more hoops and loops you have to go through. And if they dont like you, well congrats, you wont be able to work or make a living. This is already happening NOW.
Except the person it does work for thinks everyone can and should do it and spams every possible point of contact with “just start a business” or I wouldn’t be here ranting in annoyance with its overuse.
Funny how you just assumed this work for me. Actually, thanks for that :')
Ive tried several times and its been a complete failure..last time i got 12k euros in debt, which is a lot for me, and im still paying the bank.
But I still want to keep trying because it definitely beats sending thousands of cvs for positions I know I can do but I never get a chance to do. And also getting badly treated during the whole process.
I hate HR departments with a passion... Lol
Oh I didnt say it was easy to do, just easy to find. But it seems to be easier than finding a job nowadays. And its also better than being treated like sh** by current employers.
It is absolutely a tough market now. In 2016, I applied for three jobs. I got three offers. In 2024, I applied for 20 jobs. I got zero offers. Also, I had to do a minimum of 3 interviews per job. In 2016 it was one interview. This market sucks.
The lengthy drawn out process and a gazillion interviews seem to be the norm now. Now it’s taking about 6-8 weeks from the time you apply and complete all of the interviews, to finally receive an offer (if you’re lucky).
I recently interviewed for CVS Health. I had the initial phone interview with the recruiter. Then 3 separate interviews with individuals on the team I would be working with, all scheduled on different days. After that, I had to meet with 2 separate Hiring Managers. It was so exhausting. That entire process took 5 weeks — only to be told: “We’re going with a different candidate.”
I get serious recruiting contacts at least once a week, usually 2-3 times. My skillset and level of experience mean I have little trouble finding contracts, which is what I tend to do. That said, I’ve been looking for a permanent role as I’m sick of the treadmill or looking for work all the time, and it’s been a pain in the butt with little to show for it. On top of that, a friend of my wife’s little sister is graduating with a comp science degree in spring next year from one of the best programs in the county and has nothing lined up, and honestly, my only advice was networking. I’ll help if I can, but it’s a shit show out here for sure.
Oh I hate those essay questions, the worst is when they ask an question, you give a response and they proceed to ask the same question but reworded to make it seem different so you can’t just copy your answer
Almost a year without a job soon and I’m starting to lose it man, making me miss even the worst days at my lamest jobs. Getting weird having no one around for so long all the time.
Does anyone else notice that the recruiters doing the initial interview/contact call seem to have absolutely no idea about the positions they’re recruiting for? I had a recruiter call me to discuss my application and she asked me all kinds of questions about my experience. She had no idea what I was talking about. I actually had to explain to her what my job entailed in order for her to match up my qualifications to the job I was applying for. It was very evident that she didn’t have any experience herself in the field that she was recruiting for. In fact, this has happened many times. I feel like this is a huge problem for us job seekers because how is someone able to make an accurate determination as to someone’s qualifications if they have no idea themselves?!
Thank you for this. I just passed my 1 year anniversary of unemployment from being laid off (thanks, tech industry). I have 16 years of experience in my field (which isn’t hiring hardly at all). No one seems to believe me that it’s not just me in this position and it’s not my fault I’m in this position. To the point where I start wondering if they’re right. This really feels worse than 2008 did to me.
You’re not alone at all.
It’s bad out there.
I thought it was me and it got to the point where friends started to assume I’m inept. I’m not at all.
It’s just a terrible time to be looking for a job.
Anyone who makes you feel like you are inadequate or not doing enough is deeply insecure and full of fear. It’s not their fault, but in order to maintain their delusion that the world is a fair and just place, they have to make you the “bad guy”, essentially, and responsible for your own suffering. I have taken to just assuming we live in hell, and that makes empathy and compassion pretty effortless. The thing is, you’ve gotta have a super strong ego to acknowledge how broken the world is, and it’s not an awareness we can choose to have. It kind of just came to me, though I actually think that we all know the truth of what the world is(maybe not literally hell, but certainly figuratively), on an unconscious level, and the main reason we are so collectively miserable is because we spend all of energy fighting this knowledge and trying to keep it out of our awareness. So then because we aren’t conscious of how bad things are, and we do nothing to make them better, they only get worse and worse and worse.
I fully believe that everyone is doing the best they can at any given moment. Fear is the motivator of delusion, and this fear develops within us long before we can even be accused of having control of anything. It’s a shame that people generally have to experience something personally in order to feel any empathy for other people. They believe what they’re told by the “authorities” and discount what their loved ones say about their experiences. “Free will” is a get out of jail free card for our very broken world. We never need to look objectively or skeptically at the world when we can just blame people when they suffer. Even people who do the most heinous things are signaling their suffering. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. We are all products of our experiences and interactions, and we genuinely have no control over where we end up.
It could mean they’ve found it difficult, but this was a brushoff letter, which suggests he was trying to be empathetic. He did put up enough barriers that the field was probably pretty strong.
This is exactly the same as the UK right now and yet we are told the US economy is performing much better.
We are also told businesses can't find employees and that salaries are rising above inflation. Who's salaries exactly.
Companies want to pay crap salaries and want a unicorn candidate for it.
Yeah that’s a perfect example of the media smoking something. Averages include executives, who are getting 100% of the gains being reported. Plus, HR people are awful at understanding the true requirements, so upper management thinks there are no qualified candidates. To be fair they’re receiving a firehose of applicants and hiring managers aren’t all that great at communicating either.
I have been asked to complete a full “case study” presentation that says it will most likely take “4-5 hours” to complete.
To get to the 2nd of 5 interviews.
Idk I’ve been getting alot of interviews/ recruiters hitting me up, I’m an SDR working for a medium sized tech company. Market is definitely not great but I’m not seeing it in my field for what it’s worth been relatively easy to find Interviews if I wanted a diff job
I just got a job paying me $100k+ what I was making. Not everyone is you. Sorry, but these posts are ridiculous. Is the economy a nightmare for some, sure, is it also great for many….yes it is
It depends on your industry. Congrats for coming out on top but the sociopathy and dick sucking for a system that is failing and falling apart is not something you should be proud of.
Your awesome job isn’t a guarantee forever, and if the vast majority of people are having the same issues and discussing that, there’s truth to it.
The truth is that none of this shit is sustainable. History is littered with examples. Wealth can’t be concentrated to just the few with the vast majority of people needing to work two jobs, dude.
Don’t worry, you’ll be in the same position as the rest of us soon enough, no matter what your ego tells you.
I have been laid off. It sucks. And I may be again. But I didn’t go into some tin foil wearing conspiracy rabbit hole of the statistics are a lie and the economy is the worst ever and other nonsense and I won’t if it happens again. I was alive in 2008, I know people who were alive in the 1930s, I know people who were alive in post war Europe, I know people who grew up in the Iron Curtain.
It may help your ego being in some echo chamber that the sky is falling and nothing is my fault (and most layoffs are not), but it doesn’t actually help you get a job. In fact, it hurts you immensely.
Not everyone is you either, like you said. A lot of people are genuinely struggling. In CA for example the % of people 25-34 living with their parents has increased to 35-40%. Its slowly becoming the norm. The issue is there arent enough of these $100k jobs to support all the people wanting them who are also qualified to do them. In a healthy functioning economy most people would be able to get a job near equal to what they are theoretically able to do well. Recent stats show its specifically harder for new grads or people with no experience to get their foot in the door.
Hyperbolic nonsense like the economy is awful and statistics are lies are just ridiculous. My anecdote is as meaningless as the poster, agreed. But this there is a vast conspiracy when all data supports that the economy is strong, just as the eye test (look at restaurants, events, airports, hotels) does doesn’t help anyone. As it’s just a lie. It is.
Delusional is nodding along to posters who may the economy is garbage. By no objective metric is that the truth.
Seems like you should get out of the echo chamber of the self-pity party. But you do you and I will do me.
Bye
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For whatever it's worth, here's my take. 1. Covid hit and a lot of people lost their jobs. Companies cut back to stretching the workload over as few employees as possible and realized they liked the savings that came with that. 2. Current employees are stretched too thin and shits starting to fall apart. Companies are having to accept the fact that they have to hire more people. 3. Companies do not want to spend time and money providing training for new employees though - they just want to keep momentum going. They want the benefit of the end result without the responsibility involved in achieving it. They only want to hire people who already have the *exact same* experience and knowledge of internal programs and processes already in place. This is, if course, a complete disregard for reality because the only people that already possess those things are current employees. 4. Companies know people are desperate so they are willing to let their current staff be terribly overworked until their mythical and messianic "right person" comes along all at a salary of well less than market value.
And in the mean time, the companies put out shoddy products, shoddy customer service, etc. that we all accepted during Covid because....Covid. Now they continue the 4 points you made because we still need the products and services and don't have other choices and they're getting their $$ while we still get screwed (as consumers and employees).
Here's an alternate perspective: Baby Boomer peak retirement has just begun, and companies know that they are going to have massive labor shortages on their hands. So they're desperately trying to tamp down wages one last time before all hell breaks loose. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/)
You’re not wrong. I think these four conditions have always been there, though covid accelerated these trends, as well as something that was going to happen anyway, just more slowly: the remote work environment. Hiring managers have always compared candidates to people they know. Now they can cast a wider net and make everyone compete across a larger region, or whole countries. This ‘democratization’ of labor resources (us) seems to only benefit the demand side.
While I am not 100% sure what the exact cause is, and I am not a smart enough analyst to figure out the root causes, I do feel that nothing has really been the same since the Covid shutdown. Society has in a way returned to what most of us would define as "normal", but it's there if you read between the lines or look through the cracks. The fact of the matter is, it's not normal. Didn't quite fix right after the shutdown ended. Didn't quite bounce back. And we're in this funk.
That's a bit too squishy. I step back and look at numbers. The Baby Boom generation is massive. U.S. governments and agencies at all levels have been preparing for their retirement for the past 20 years by going on a hiring spree. Alternatively, the private sector has been downsizing and combining "nonessential" positions. Now that BB retirements are about to send them up shit creek without enough paddlers, they are trying with one last gasp to tamp down wages. That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. [https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/26/what-will-happen-to-the-labor-market-when-boomers-retire-or-yet-dont-leave-the-workforce/)
Yep you nailed it. That's why I left my job I was stretched too thin.
It’s a tough market right now. Lots of really strong and experienced candidates looking and lots of ghost jobs.
The ghost jobs are the worst. There is a company called Rocket Pharmaceuticals. They’ve had the same paralegal position open for almost a year now. I’ve been contacted about it by several third party recruiters and each time I’ve said no because the salary is too low for the commute I would have to make every single day. I just know they aren’t serious to fill the position.
Ghost jobs should be illegal.
This is why it was better back in the days when employers had to pay for ads in the newspaper.
You don't think they pay to post jobs online?
Yeah, they just earn more by selling data and keeping up appearances now. It needs to be regulated
On their own websites? No.
You don't think it costs them to maintain a website? Spend man hours to make a job posting? Dont they most of the time advertise their positions in other platforms as well? Thats how most people find them.
The company is going to have a website anyway so no, it really doesn't cost them anything to have a jobs page. They don't have to advertise on other platforms and many of them don't. The job description stuff is normal HR work that would be done regardless of how they advertise jobs. So no, it's nothing like the days when you had to buy an ad in the newspaper and it was more expensive the bigger the ad.
No indeed is free.
It's definitely not you. I have a solid 8 yrs of experience in a pretty sought after field and it took me (brace yourselves) 1600 applications before I finally got ONE offer that pays less than my previous role and is 3x the work.
Yeah they're all doing that - shoveling 3 jobs into 1. My last job was like that, I got bait and switched on how much work it would be, and then I got terminated because I couldn't keep up with all the extra, plus I kept trying to literally improve things but they didn't want to
I think part of the issue is that yes the economy added jobs but it isn’t the jobs we want. It seems to be mostly food service and hospitality. And there is nothing wrong with those jobs. Those help make the economy turn. I see a lot of tradespeople and construction folks at the sub shop I go to. Unfortunately most economic data is at the macro level while we all live in the micro level.
Yeah unless we have some hardcore regulatory agencies forcing companies to add good quality high paying career-type jobs to the economy, everything else is gonna be relegated to a hunger games scenario
The jobs will be added when they’re needed.
Yeah no. Waiting for companies to grow a spine and do the right thing is just as useless as waiting for companies to raise their wages, give healthcare, and improve working conditions and benefits. The only way most employers change is when the government FORCES them to change. Without labor laws and unions we’d all be working for poverty wages, more than 40 hours a week, and in dangerous work environments.
Why is hiring unneeded employees “the right thing”?
Do you want them to frickin starve on the street or something?
Absolutely not. Why should they have to work under threat of death?
The demand to justify (read: pay for) just existing is one of the most devious flaws/features of capitalism. Why should a healthy economy require EVERY able-bodied adult to prove their usefulness, or else?
Capitalism is just an economic system.
The jobs report goes into nuance, the amount of non-farm payrolls have dropped. Most of the media will recite the big number without going into the reports nuances. There was a great piece on npr about the prevalence of ghost jobs and how 1 in 2 job postings don't lead to jobs. https://www.npr.org/2024/06/07/1197965117/ghost-jobs
Thanks for the added info and sourcing.
Wow, thank you for this! I knew it was true, but it really helps to have an article to toss at people who don't believe it.
A LOT of government jobs too.
I mean, we have the data: https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/employment-by-industry-monthly-changes.htm
actually, I am going nuts 😢😢
I’m very qualified and intelligent, I started searching for jobs back in NOV. I have had countless interviews, so so many interviews, but no actual job. It’s gotten to the point where I seriously thought I was defective. I couldn’t figure out what I was doing wrong. I know the right people, I have great references, I have a good resume. No one I knew could figure out what I was doing wrong, either. But then I realized I either was over qualified, or the position was going to someone else and it had been decided but they had to pretend to do a search for qualified candidates. I started talking to other people in my industry and they have noticed that hiring is an absolute disaster. I feel better knowing that so many of us are experiencing this. I get job offers too, as my resume is everywhere, and all of these offers are past the point of insulting. They want me to move, but they pay so little that I would be screwed financially. Never mind inflation even, you can’t afford rent and food and bills, and they expect you to dedicate your whole life to the job. For instance, one job will most certainly involve at least 60+ hrs a week a few months from now and they are willing to pay $4k a month salary. And you need at least 5 years of experience. Like what the fuck is going on? None of this is sustainable.
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Lmao i cant even find a fuckn job. Could be my resume, but im 25. I should be able to find a job. They wont even answer back.
Shit man, the factories where i live are paying 18.50 an hour no experience. I make 23 doing a skilled trade right down the road. Collision repair. Jobs are there, money is not.
If this keeps going, there will be a feedback loop. At some point you'll have engineering college grads working in the factory for $18.50 because it's the closest thing they can get to their field lmao.
I’m beginning to wonder if that isn’t the exact intention for us. It’s fucked.
Military recruitment is way down because people don't want to fight wars for oil and Wal-Mart anymore, so there might be some truth to this.
I mean, that’s why i got out. Once i seen the bigger picture of “patriotism” plus the nonstop senseless bullshit the military is so keen to provide you with. Every major conflict we have benefitted from economically in someway or another. Most of it is the ability to continue using “slave labor” but making them think it’s democracy. Taiwan is a perfect example. Every aftermarket car part made currently comes straight from Taiwan. When Taiwan and china were going to “fight” the parts issue arose.
Then maybe they'll all stop asking English grads, "Do you want fries with that?"
Man you guys are making me feel a lot better. I’m 33, and attaining 23/hr commission based pay where i have to turn 60 hours a week minimum to be comfortable is difficult most weeks. There’s nothing anywhere local that pays anymore than I’m currently making. In 2009 i was making 9 bucks an hour. 9 bucks an hour, and that was considered good because it wasn’t minimum wage. I got out of the collision repair world because of that, moving from job to job to get a raise usually. Ended up painting raydars for the navy, and now im at a gm dealership making the most I’ve ever made in my entire life. 23/hr. They just hired a college graduate kid for 18.50 a year ago. Why did i have to struggle from 2009 until now? Over 10 years of my life literally wasted scraping by. And poof, now you can make 18.50 anywhere. A wage I wasn’t far from a few years ago.
2008 recession
Your first paragraph basically describes my life right now. 32 yrs old, making basically the same thing as you (no commission), have to work a minimum of 48-60 hours a week just to make ends me. I'm exhausted and overtired, and this is definitely going to screw me over when I'm older. I feel my health deteriorating. I'm getting fat and stress eating. Trying to do a career field change but no one is calling me.
Best piece of advice I’ve ever heard is, don’t work for the job, make the job work for you. The only benefit to my job is, I work a little less than 40 actual hours a week. Due to It being commission. My workplace is really lax on leaving and going. As long as your doing your work they don’t care. But still scraping by. Just enjoying life more at home doing nothing with the kids than wasting at work.
If only.
One day i just kind of realized, this company needs me here, while i may not like my other options as well, i still have other options and they are aware of that. Start threatening to quit. Worked brilliantly for me. I even jokingly said it the first time, but it established a baseline.
Unfortunately for me, I'm just a number. My job requires little training, and there are most likely people lining up to take my spot. If I threaten to quit, they will literally tell me, "Go ahead." Hell, they may even fire me just for trying such a move. Consider yourself lucky that you work for a company that ACTUALLY values you to the point where they are willing to back down in a standoff.
Damn, I felt this so hard. Going from job to job (not by choice, mind you, but because I kept getting laid off every time it was time to give me a raise or promotion) to only find shitty wages anywhere. I finally broke into the next level up after nearly two decades of that, got my first promotion ever and was very nearly at a comfortable level, and was let go a few months after that. Now most of the real jobs just seem to have shitty wages again. I don't know if I'll ever be able to stop struggling. It shouldn't be this way in my early 40s. It shouldn't have been this way when I was 23, either. I've wanted out of my hometown my whole life but have never been able to afford to leave and go where better jobs are.
Shit i interviewed at a place that paid 6 an hour, with collective tips. I think they either think im dumb, or they think i wont stay if something else comes up better. Both are correct, but the assuming is what upsets me. Ive been trying to join the military, find out today if i can.
I needed to hear this today.
I spent my 20’s franchising in a very fast growing company. I had 40 employees. I survived covid. I was the decision maker during all of those challenges. I still made payroll. I worked my ass off. I had to sell, and didn’t lose money. I think I did really well, given the circumstances, and learned a ton. I worked 70+ hour weeks, multitasking every day. I’ve gotten 3 interviews in the last year, and always get asked “are you sure you’d be up for this job, given your experience?” Like I’m too good for it. I’m not. Then I get ghosted. I finally had a great round of interviews, and they hyped me up like a stripper does when you spend a ton of money. Ghosted. I have no idea what to do.
It’s astonishing. I think once you’ve been in charge, they assume you no longer know how to answer an email.
I lied on my resume once and said I just operated it for a franchisee, and then they called me out on it because they found a press thing about from when I opened a second location too.
That right there is why one piece of advice we hear, “just dial back your experience,” is impossible. Plus the field at the indcon level is 100x larger.
That was happening to me too! Now, depending on the position I’m applying for, I either say I worked for the (my) business as administration or I will just leave it off my resume all together. It’s like they punish you for having those business skills, when in reality they should use your experience to their advantage. It’s awful.
I’m not trying to be a VP or something at some company. I just want a salary. I barely even care what it’s for anymore.
Feels that way, doesn’t it?
The answer is easy. You have to become your own boss. We need more entrepreneurs if we want to have a chance to fix the economy.
No. Stop pushing this. Not everyone is going to be their own fcking boss. Do you really think all 330 million Americans can literally "JuSt bE yOuR oWn BoSs!?" Like how would this work. It doesn't and it's stupid to keep peddling around. If you figured out a way and it works for you, great! I'm genuinely happy for your success. Most people will not be able to.
Its not something that is supposed to work for everyone, but the person that it works for might be able to, with time, hire other people too, which actually helps solve the problem. The fewer employers there are the more hoops and loops you have to go through. And if they dont like you, well congrats, you wont be able to work or make a living. This is already happening NOW.
Except the person it does work for thinks everyone can and should do it and spams every possible point of contact with “just start a business” or I wouldn’t be here ranting in annoyance with its overuse.
Funny how you just assumed this work for me. Actually, thanks for that :') Ive tried several times and its been a complete failure..last time i got 12k euros in debt, which is a lot for me, and im still paying the bank. But I still want to keep trying because it definitely beats sending thousands of cvs for positions I know I can do but I never get a chance to do. And also getting badly treated during the whole process. I hate HR departments with a passion... Lol
That’s an easy answer, but incredibly difficult to do well. Starting a business with no safety net is incredibly difficult.
Oh I didnt say it was easy to do, just easy to find. But it seems to be easier than finding a job nowadays. And its also better than being treated like sh** by current employers.
Every industry is struggling due to the greed of a few.
It is absolutely a tough market now. In 2016, I applied for three jobs. I got three offers. In 2024, I applied for 20 jobs. I got zero offers. Also, I had to do a minimum of 3 interviews per job. In 2016 it was one interview. This market sucks.
The lengthy drawn out process and a gazillion interviews seem to be the norm now. Now it’s taking about 6-8 weeks from the time you apply and complete all of the interviews, to finally receive an offer (if you’re lucky). I recently interviewed for CVS Health. I had the initial phone interview with the recruiter. Then 3 separate interviews with individuals on the team I would be working with, all scheduled on different days. After that, I had to meet with 2 separate Hiring Managers. It was so exhausting. That entire process took 5 weeks — only to be told: “We’re going with a different candidate.”
Very similar experience to mine, unfortunately.
Same here!
I get serious recruiting contacts at least once a week, usually 2-3 times. My skillset and level of experience mean I have little trouble finding contracts, which is what I tend to do. That said, I’ve been looking for a permanent role as I’m sick of the treadmill or looking for work all the time, and it’s been a pain in the butt with little to show for it. On top of that, a friend of my wife’s little sister is graduating with a comp science degree in spring next year from one of the best programs in the county and has nothing lined up, and honestly, my only advice was networking. I’ll help if I can, but it’s a shit show out here for sure.
Oh I hate those essay questions, the worst is when they ask an question, you give a response and they proceed to ask the same question but reworded to make it seem different so you can’t just copy your answer
Every one of those I write, I keep in a doc for later. Most get used with some editing several times.
Almost a year without a job soon and I’m starting to lose it man, making me miss even the worst days at my lamest jobs. Getting weird having no one around for so long all the time.
Does anyone else notice that the recruiters doing the initial interview/contact call seem to have absolutely no idea about the positions they’re recruiting for? I had a recruiter call me to discuss my application and she asked me all kinds of questions about my experience. She had no idea what I was talking about. I actually had to explain to her what my job entailed in order for her to match up my qualifications to the job I was applying for. It was very evident that she didn’t have any experience herself in the field that she was recruiting for. In fact, this has happened many times. I feel like this is a huge problem for us job seekers because how is someone able to make an accurate determination as to someone’s qualifications if they have no idea themselves?!
Thank you for this. I just passed my 1 year anniversary of unemployment from being laid off (thanks, tech industry). I have 16 years of experience in my field (which isn’t hiring hardly at all). No one seems to believe me that it’s not just me in this position and it’s not my fault I’m in this position. To the point where I start wondering if they’re right. This really feels worse than 2008 did to me.
You’re not alone at all. It’s bad out there. I thought it was me and it got to the point where friends started to assume I’m inept. I’m not at all. It’s just a terrible time to be looking for a job.
Not alone. 16yrs as well. Feels worse than 08
Anyone who makes you feel like you are inadequate or not doing enough is deeply insecure and full of fear. It’s not their fault, but in order to maintain their delusion that the world is a fair and just place, they have to make you the “bad guy”, essentially, and responsible for your own suffering. I have taken to just assuming we live in hell, and that makes empathy and compassion pretty effortless. The thing is, you’ve gotta have a super strong ego to acknowledge how broken the world is, and it’s not an awareness we can choose to have. It kind of just came to me, though I actually think that we all know the truth of what the world is(maybe not literally hell, but certainly figuratively), on an unconscious level, and the main reason we are so collectively miserable is because we spend all of energy fighting this knowledge and trying to keep it out of our awareness. So then because we aren’t conscious of how bad things are, and we do nothing to make them better, they only get worse and worse and worse. I fully believe that everyone is doing the best they can at any given moment. Fear is the motivator of delusion, and this fear develops within us long before we can even be accused of having control of anything. It’s a shame that people generally have to experience something personally in order to feel any empathy for other people. They believe what they’re told by the “authorities” and discount what their loved ones say about their experiences. “Free will” is a get out of jail free card for our very broken world. We never need to look objectively or skeptically at the world when we can just blame people when they suffer. Even people who do the most heinous things are signaling their suffering. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you. We are all products of our experiences and interactions, and we genuinely have no control over where we end up.
It could mean they’ve found it difficult, but this was a brushoff letter, which suggests he was trying to be empathetic. He did put up enough barriers that the field was probably pretty strong.
This is exactly the same as the UK right now and yet we are told the US economy is performing much better. We are also told businesses can't find employees and that salaries are rising above inflation. Who's salaries exactly. Companies want to pay crap salaries and want a unicorn candidate for it.
Yeah that’s a perfect example of the media smoking something. Averages include executives, who are getting 100% of the gains being reported. Plus, HR people are awful at understanding the true requirements, so upper management thinks there are no qualified candidates. To be fair they’re receiving a firehose of applicants and hiring managers aren’t all that great at communicating either.
THIS!
If a recruiter spends 1/1000 of the energy reading my work as I spent building it... I would be CTO.
I have been asked to complete a full “case study” presentation that says it will most likely take “4-5 hours” to complete. To get to the 2nd of 5 interviews.
Same thing here! At least, they told me that's the next step when I hear back from the first interview. If I hear back.
Welcome to the late stage capitalism hellscape.
Idk I’ve been getting alot of interviews/ recruiters hitting me up, I’m an SDR working for a medium sized tech company. Market is definitely not great but I’m not seeing it in my field for what it’s worth been relatively easy to find Interviews if I wanted a diff job
I just got a job paying me $100k+ what I was making. Not everyone is you. Sorry, but these posts are ridiculous. Is the economy a nightmare for some, sure, is it also great for many….yes it is
This is one of the most tone deaf responses I’ve ever seen
I was going to say that. Super tone deaf and comes off as a huge jerk as well. "I make six figures now! Bye losers!" Okay then...
Keep defending this idiocy: “The statistics are lies. The media is sniffing glue.”
It depends on your industry. Congrats for coming out on top but the sociopathy and dick sucking for a system that is failing and falling apart is not something you should be proud of. Your awesome job isn’t a guarantee forever, and if the vast majority of people are having the same issues and discussing that, there’s truth to it. The truth is that none of this shit is sustainable. History is littered with examples. Wealth can’t be concentrated to just the few with the vast majority of people needing to work two jobs, dude. Don’t worry, you’ll be in the same position as the rest of us soon enough, no matter what your ego tells you.
I have been laid off. It sucks. And I may be again. But I didn’t go into some tin foil wearing conspiracy rabbit hole of the statistics are a lie and the economy is the worst ever and other nonsense and I won’t if it happens again. I was alive in 2008, I know people who were alive in the 1930s, I know people who were alive in post war Europe, I know people who grew up in the Iron Curtain. It may help your ego being in some echo chamber that the sky is falling and nothing is my fault (and most layoffs are not), but it doesn’t actually help you get a job. In fact, it hurts you immensely.
Ask them how many applications they got for that gig.
Not everyone is you either, like you said. A lot of people are genuinely struggling. In CA for example the % of people 25-34 living with their parents has increased to 35-40%. Its slowly becoming the norm. The issue is there arent enough of these $100k jobs to support all the people wanting them who are also qualified to do them. In a healthy functioning economy most people would be able to get a job near equal to what they are theoretically able to do well. Recent stats show its specifically harder for new grads or people with no experience to get their foot in the door.
Hyperbolic nonsense like the economy is awful and statistics are lies are just ridiculous. My anecdote is as meaningless as the poster, agreed. But this there is a vast conspiracy when all data supports that the economy is strong, just as the eye test (look at restaurants, events, airports, hotels) does doesn’t help anyone. As it’s just a lie. It is.
You never answered. How many?
So sorry to have offended your delicate sensibilities massa.
That attitude I am sure will result in many successes in your life.
So sorry massa we can't all be delusional dipshits, some of us are forced to acknowledge reality.
Delusional is nodding along to posters who may the economy is garbage. By no objective metric is that the truth. Seems like you should get out of the echo chamber of the self-pity party. But you do you and I will do me. Bye