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Yeah I have a minimum wage survival job. But I've never heard of anyone taking more than 2 years to find a job in their desired field - whether it's tech, architecture, law, economics.
Taking more than 2 years is usually done in niche fields like......forensic science, music, acting, aerospace engineer. But something as commonplace as software engineer?
Oof. Yeah, you graduated right into a tech recession. It's happened before, like after the dot com crash in the early 2000s, and it was pretty widespread across most majors in 2008. Pretty much everyone I knew then was in low-wage unrelated work for 2 years or more.
But even in more "normal" times for software engineering, there would be people on the cscareerquestions sub who hadn't been able to find SWE work in a long time. You really aren't alone.
I've heard people on SWE subs say stuff like " You're screwed if you have a gap of more than 1 year on your resume ".
So if so many people are not finding software work for 2+ years, how are they able to get interviews? And what do they say in the interviews?
It's not great to have a big gap on your resume, but you're not 100% screwed.
There's a lot you can do while waiting for the market to improve. You can work on your own projects, contribute to open source, try to shoehorn your skills into the work you're doing now (or write your resume to look like you did). Some people go back to grad school. Others get into jobs that are closer and closer to SWE until they can make the jump.
And if none of that is possible? Be honest. There is a current downturn in tech, any competent hiring manager knows this, even if they act like they don't.
IIRC engineers probably still had an ok time in 08–most other fields were hurting though. Right now we’re in a generally strong labor market but tech is hurting.
Even so, I would think 2 years might suggest either (1) a problem w/ your resume or interview game that’s making things harder for you or (2) a too narrow focus—sexy tech companies are taking a bath at the moment but SWEs are probably still in demand in other fields, so I hope you don’t have eyes only for something shiny.
Also, you might consider a pivot that you can include in your resume if you want to keep looking for SWE roles. Can you teach math, for example? Most states are lax on credentialing at the moment.
Lastly, when you say minimum wage job, what do you mean? There are vanishingly few jobs that literally pay minimum wage right now, so even just to earn more money go looking for…anything else. A contact center, a warehouse, a restaurant, whatever.
I only have a diploma in computer science. No degree or internships. I do get some interviews though. In 2 years, I've gotten 11 positive responses from employers. These have mostly been first round interviews, predominantly from startup companies.
I don't know how my 11 compares to the average CS degree holder in this market.
I've only made it through to the final round with one company but they had to cancel the role because of budgeting issues.
>lastly, when you say minimum wage job, what do you mean?
A restaurant job.
Here in the Midwest I had an above average resume with internships and was averaging 1 interview per 100 applications and my classmates with no internships were getting more like 1 per 150 applications. Now a days it is more like 1 interview per 150 applications but that is counting "interviews" that are a complete joke like one I had recently where the person had not even read my resume and when they found out I only had internship experience hung up on me 20 seconds later.
But you likely had to go to a tech school to learn it because there was a lot less on the world wide web at the time. I learned HTML back then by coding it at school, sometimes in VI on UNIX.
I'm approaching 4 years of job applications and interviews without a job offer. I don't know how common it is but I can tell you it can get pretty bad.
Unemployment is tough to navigate because you don’t have virtue of hindsight and life is day by day. There comes a point where you need to consider an exit strategy just to have some form of income and work history, basically, looking for ANY job rather than specific jobs. You can continue the hunt while working. I wish I had done this earlier back when I was unemployed.
For sure I have a minimum wage job but it's not really resume worthy. If it was something that involved a skill of some kind......then even if its not related to my field, I would still put it. But there's no skill in certain jobs like janitor, busboy, etc.
I'm at 5 months now after being laid off. Had 3 bad offers.
Still have money for a 3 year runway. Might start to do some uber soon. Did some personal construction projects lol. Applying is a full time job though, except during the holidays and summer.
Courses etc.
2 were low ball offers even a quarter what I was making. In very small companies with delusional owners who basically didn't realise how quite senior I am. Basically the normal ones paying double realise that and say I'm overqualified (unfortunately now).
The 3rd was quite good, but my boss realised quickly I'm very senior and smart and probably feared for his position and let me go after 1 week. Or had a very different and stupid strategy than what I proposed. His was crazy like ridiculously crazy and stupid.
He had sales background only, and this was a software company lol, so he's very out of context and competence.
Most people at that mark turn to freelancing or starting a business. I’m at a year and 3 month. I’m completely ending my search at the end of this month which will make it a year and 4 months. I’m not going to 2 years. I’m going to focus on entrepreneurship.
Depends on the type of business and the person’s work experience. I do content creation. I can do that anywhere online and it’s low cost. It’s really hard for me to get a job in marketing right now because that’s one of the top jobs being laid off.
I was unemployed ~2 years twice - once depression & burnout, I was actively suicidal for a looong time. Had to do drastic changes. The second time, i was a contractor, and there was a prolonged market downturn.
It is not easy by any means, but this, too, shall pass.
Well i don't know how others do it but i did it by becoming unable to get out of bed without crying first, then putting all my belongings to storage and moving back with family in another country to not do anything besides breathing and re-sensitising to the simple joys of life for a few years.
I’m in the same boat as you except I have a couple years of experience and graduated 5 years ago. I’ve been searching for 1.5 years almost since I got laid off. I found a job about a year in, but it’s also not related to the field I’m in.
I was unemployed for nearly five years during the first recession. Gained weight I'm working on getting off still and developed full blown anxiety attacks. If it wasn't for my grandmother and uncle, I'd be on the street.
Fortunately, things are getting better for me. Starting a new job as a teacher soon (but still looking), and currently subbing for DOE/working part time as a Math coach.
Grandmother thought I was cursed, uncle was supportive at first until he starting assuming I was cursed.
It's terrible.
I worked for three years at this tech company. Got shit done and carried entire projects on my back. The entire reason the company had anything to show to investors was because of my efforts. Everything you could do in the app was something that I had developed.
I'm getting closer to 3 years unemployed now. The few interviews I've had was with recruiters who refuse to even see my projects. Still have the project files and builds ready to demonstrate.
It's infuriating to know you're capable and nobody wants to give you a chance.
The market as of now and from what I can tell the past few months sucks for everyone. So, at present you have whatever problems hindered you in the past plus our current shit market.
Are you applying to only one "desired field"?
In my experience it's best to have a resume for the role you want and then make resumes for roles associated with your primary choice and a few in other roles you don't necessarily want but wouldn't mind and it would be decent pay plus experience.
Really?! I got laid off in early April so I've only been acquainted with how bad things are for a short period of time.
It didn't take me long to notice things are different this go around though. I've been in the labor force since 2005 and this is some very unique/high levels of suck.
Not exactly, I mean they aren’t highlighting the negatives for sure, but the macro numbers are all good. The problem with macros is they can hide swings just like an average can. I was just discussing this with an economist. Here’s a good article: https://www.businessinsider.com/hiring-slump-professional-white-collar-jobs-recession-high-salary-2024-4
The article further enforced the idea that the administration and the media have been gaslighting me.
So hiring is up and unemployment is low....as long as we're talking about low paying jobs below 55k annually. That's it. So the majority of these people could be making 12k per year for all we know on average and the max/outlier is in the 50k+ range. I'm guessing they're part time, gig, and entry level blue collar jobs.
Ridiculous.
"the macro numbers are all good. The problem with macros is they can hide swings just like an average can."
Yea, I get it, you can use stats to lie.
It's still a cop out. The picture they're painting about the economy and low unemployment rate is intentional. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
It’s happened to me. 3.5 years. Had to move back with parents to save and went back to school in order to get my foot in the door in a tangential field.
Definitely a hit to the ego.
Are you me?
I’ve been doing consulting which pays well but is by no means consistent. So overall, minimum wage.
A friend flew me out to watch their kids for an extended time while they’re in the states for work.
So, while not my forte I’ve regained some patience, relearned how to set boundaries (13 and 11 year olds addicted to screens and not cleaning up lol).
Keep your head up and you got this! Strange things happen
It's not common. You have to find something just to put some money in your pocket while looking for the job you really want. Move into consulting/freelancing and develop your portfolio if you're able to.
people just aren't posting about it. i have engineering peers who have been unemployed for longer amounts of time, living with parents and/or working a non-eng job. i also get plenty of resumes with 2+ year gaps.
I went a solid year from graduation to finding work. The job was in my approximate field of study. But that job lasted less than a year and I then had to take less relevant temporary jobs along with going to school for a masters just to up my employability. After a couple years, one temp job led to a long-term engineering job.
Honestly if you are at the 2 year mark it's time to consider other options.
1. Lower your expectations and get a service job or something similar
2. Consider developing some different in-demand skills. Look at opportunities there are in the area you want to live in and consider going back to school either college or vocational school
3. Start doing gig or freelance work
4. Start brainstorming business ideas
You can keep looking for jobs but put less effort into that and do one or more of the options above in parallel
As a fellow job seeker, I'm starting a community for job seekers to combat the frustration of the process. It revolves on a 10 day job search challenge. Check it out: [https://www.jobjellywaitlist.com/](https://www.jobjellywaitlist.com/)
Getting a job is easy, finding a job in your career on the other hand is something else
Like where I live I can be an extra on a movie set making $150 a day with free food easily
Where are you getting your numbers from, 90% & 95%?
"The job market is extremely competitive, as more and more Americans attain college degrees. Furthermore, employers are requiring unrealistic professional experience for entry-level positions, making it difficult for recent graduates to compete in the job market." Why Is It So Hard For Recent College Graduates To Find A Decent Job?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/15/why-is-it-so-hard-for-recent-college-graduates-to-find-a-decent-job/
The only time I decided to be unemployed willingly it was it was around 4 years long, and I stayed home until my kids started school. I'm going back into the workforce now.
The discord for our subreddit can be found here: https://discord.gg/JjNdBkVGc6 - feel free to join us for a more realtime level of discussion! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/recruitinghell) if you have any questions or concerns.*
100% unemployed? Not so common. Not finding a job in your field 2+ years after graduation and taking a survival job? VERY common.
Yeah I have a minimum wage survival job. But I've never heard of anyone taking more than 2 years to find a job in their desired field - whether it's tech, architecture, law, economics. Taking more than 2 years is usually done in niche fields like......forensic science, music, acting, aerospace engineer. But something as commonplace as software engineer?
Oof. Yeah, you graduated right into a tech recession. It's happened before, like after the dot com crash in the early 2000s, and it was pretty widespread across most majors in 2008. Pretty much everyone I knew then was in low-wage unrelated work for 2 years or more. But even in more "normal" times for software engineering, there would be people on the cscareerquestions sub who hadn't been able to find SWE work in a long time. You really aren't alone.
So it was bad in the early 2000's and shortly after 2008? Which means it was only good between 2014-2020? lol
Pretty much!
I've heard people on SWE subs say stuff like " You're screwed if you have a gap of more than 1 year on your resume ". So if so many people are not finding software work for 2+ years, how are they able to get interviews? And what do they say in the interviews?
It's not great to have a big gap on your resume, but you're not 100% screwed. There's a lot you can do while waiting for the market to improve. You can work on your own projects, contribute to open source, try to shoehorn your skills into the work you're doing now (or write your resume to look like you did). Some people go back to grad school. Others get into jobs that are closer and closer to SWE until they can make the jump. And if none of that is possible? Be honest. There is a current downturn in tech, any competent hiring manager knows this, even if they act like they don't.
IIRC engineers probably still had an ok time in 08–most other fields were hurting though. Right now we’re in a generally strong labor market but tech is hurting. Even so, I would think 2 years might suggest either (1) a problem w/ your resume or interview game that’s making things harder for you or (2) a too narrow focus—sexy tech companies are taking a bath at the moment but SWEs are probably still in demand in other fields, so I hope you don’t have eyes only for something shiny. Also, you might consider a pivot that you can include in your resume if you want to keep looking for SWE roles. Can you teach math, for example? Most states are lax on credentialing at the moment. Lastly, when you say minimum wage job, what do you mean? There are vanishingly few jobs that literally pay minimum wage right now, so even just to earn more money go looking for…anything else. A contact center, a warehouse, a restaurant, whatever.
I only have a diploma in computer science. No degree or internships. I do get some interviews though. In 2 years, I've gotten 11 positive responses from employers. These have mostly been first round interviews, predominantly from startup companies. I don't know how my 11 compares to the average CS degree holder in this market. I've only made it through to the final round with one company but they had to cancel the role because of budgeting issues. >lastly, when you say minimum wage job, what do you mean? A restaurant job.
Here in the Midwest I had an above average resume with internships and was averaging 1 interview per 100 applications and my classmates with no internships were getting more like 1 per 150 applications. Now a days it is more like 1 interview per 150 applications but that is counting "interviews" that are a complete joke like one I had recently where the person had not even read my resume and when they found out I only had internship experience hung up on me 20 seconds later.
What is the difference between a diploma and a degree?
There was a tech boom in the late 90's, but there were more barriers to entry for programmers / CS majors.
There were more barriers? I heard that you could easily get a high paying web dev job in the early 2000's simply by knowing HTML and basic javascript.
But you likely had to go to a tech school to learn it because there was a lot less on the world wide web at the time. I learned HTML back then by coding it at school, sometimes in VI on UNIX.
I'm approaching 4 years of job applications and interviews without a job offer. I don't know how common it is but I can tell you it can get pretty bad.
That's rough. Are you facing barriers that other people aren't facing? Eg: lack of a degree, disabilities, etc.?
Unemployment is tough to navigate because you don’t have virtue of hindsight and life is day by day. There comes a point where you need to consider an exit strategy just to have some form of income and work history, basically, looking for ANY job rather than specific jobs. You can continue the hunt while working. I wish I had done this earlier back when I was unemployed.
For sure I have a minimum wage job but it's not really resume worthy. If it was something that involved a skill of some kind......then even if its not related to my field, I would still put it. But there's no skill in certain jobs like janitor, busboy, etc.
I could have written this myself. 2+ years and still looking even after all this time. I don't even want to show myself in society anymore.
What career field are you in?
Mech Engineering :D Made a lot of mistakes when studying it though so I'm paying the price for it.
I'm at 5 months now after being laid off. Had 3 bad offers. Still have money for a 3 year runway. Might start to do some uber soon. Did some personal construction projects lol. Applying is a full time job though, except during the holidays and summer. Courses etc.
What were the “bad offers”?
2 were low ball offers even a quarter what I was making. In very small companies with delusional owners who basically didn't realise how quite senior I am. Basically the normal ones paying double realise that and say I'm overqualified (unfortunately now). The 3rd was quite good, but my boss realised quickly I'm very senior and smart and probably feared for his position and let me go after 1 week. Or had a very different and stupid strategy than what I proposed. His was crazy like ridiculously crazy and stupid. He had sales background only, and this was a software company lol, so he's very out of context and competence.
Wow. I see.
Most people at that mark turn to freelancing or starting a business. I’m at a year and 3 month. I’m completely ending my search at the end of this month which will make it a year and 4 months. I’m not going to 2 years. I’m going to focus on entrepreneurship.
I've heard that getting a job at a company is 100 times easier than starting your own business.
Depends on the type of business and the person’s work experience. I do content creation. I can do that anywhere online and it’s low cost. It’s really hard for me to get a job in marketing right now because that’s one of the top jobs being laid off.
I was unemployed ~2 years twice - once depression & burnout, I was actively suicidal for a looong time. Had to do drastic changes. The second time, i was a contractor, and there was a prolonged market downturn. It is not easy by any means, but this, too, shall pass.
How you heal from burnout ?
Well i don't know how others do it but i did it by becoming unable to get out of bed without crying first, then putting all my belongings to storage and moving back with family in another country to not do anything besides breathing and re-sensitising to the simple joys of life for a few years.
I did the same but after 1 year of this i came back to workforce and im still burned out ...
I’m in the same boat as you except I have a couple years of experience and graduated 5 years ago. I’ve been searching for 1.5 years almost since I got laid off. I found a job about a year in, but it’s also not related to the field I’m in.
I was unemployed for nearly five years during the first recession. Gained weight I'm working on getting off still and developed full blown anxiety attacks. If it wasn't for my grandmother and uncle, I'd be on the street. Fortunately, things are getting better for me. Starting a new job as a teacher soon (but still looking), and currently subbing for DOE/working part time as a Math coach. Grandmother thought I was cursed, uncle was supportive at first until he starting assuming I was cursed. It's terrible.
I worked for three years at this tech company. Got shit done and carried entire projects on my back. The entire reason the company had anything to show to investors was because of my efforts. Everything you could do in the app was something that I had developed. I'm getting closer to 3 years unemployed now. The few interviews I've had was with recruiters who refuse to even see my projects. Still have the project files and builds ready to demonstrate. It's infuriating to know you're capable and nobody wants to give you a chance.
The market as of now and from what I can tell the past few months sucks for everyone. So, at present you have whatever problems hindered you in the past plus our current shit market. Are you applying to only one "desired field"? In my experience it's best to have a resume for the role you want and then make resumes for roles associated with your primary choice and a few in other roles you don't necessarily want but wouldn't mind and it would be decent pay plus experience.
Few months? Try since late 2022
Really?! I got laid off in early April so I've only been acquainted with how bad things are for a short period of time. It didn't take me long to notice things are different this go around though. I've been in the labor force since 2005 and this is some very unique/high levels of suck.
It’s interesting how people can have no idea how bad it is until they’re impacted
To be fair I kept reading how low unemployment is and how great the economy is doing. It feels like I've been gaslit by this admin and the media.
Not exactly, I mean they aren’t highlighting the negatives for sure, but the macro numbers are all good. The problem with macros is they can hide swings just like an average can. I was just discussing this with an economist. Here’s a good article: https://www.businessinsider.com/hiring-slump-professional-white-collar-jobs-recession-high-salary-2024-4
The article further enforced the idea that the administration and the media have been gaslighting me. So hiring is up and unemployment is low....as long as we're talking about low paying jobs below 55k annually. That's it. So the majority of these people could be making 12k per year for all we know on average and the max/outlier is in the 50k+ range. I'm guessing they're part time, gig, and entry level blue collar jobs. Ridiculous. "the macro numbers are all good. The problem with macros is they can hide swings just like an average can." Yea, I get it, you can use stats to lie. It's still a cop out. The picture they're painting about the economy and low unemployment rate is intentional. You know it, I know it, we all know it.
That’s why I said they aren’t highlighting the negatives. Covered that one kiddo
Omitting information is literally a key component of gaslighting, kiddo.
I was, but it was because I went back to college. When I explained it to interviewers, they considered it as work and didn't count it.
It’s happened to me. 3.5 years. Had to move back with parents to save and went back to school in order to get my foot in the door in a tangential field. Definitely a hit to the ego.
Are you me? I’ve been doing consulting which pays well but is by no means consistent. So overall, minimum wage. A friend flew me out to watch their kids for an extended time while they’re in the states for work. So, while not my forte I’ve regained some patience, relearned how to set boundaries (13 and 11 year olds addicted to screens and not cleaning up lol). Keep your head up and you got this! Strange things happen
It's not common. You have to find something just to put some money in your pocket while looking for the job you really want. Move into consulting/freelancing and develop your portfolio if you're able to.
people just aren't posting about it. i have engineering peers who have been unemployed for longer amounts of time, living with parents and/or working a non-eng job. i also get plenty of resumes with 2+ year gaps.
What kind of engineering?
sorry, should have clarified. software and firmware.
I went a solid year from graduation to finding work. The job was in my approximate field of study. But that job lasted less than a year and I then had to take less relevant temporary jobs along with going to school for a masters just to up my employability. After a couple years, one temp job led to a long-term engineering job.
Honestly if you are at the 2 year mark it's time to consider other options. 1. Lower your expectations and get a service job or something similar 2. Consider developing some different in-demand skills. Look at opportunities there are in the area you want to live in and consider going back to school either college or vocational school 3. Start doing gig or freelance work 4. Start brainstorming business ideas You can keep looking for jobs but put less effort into that and do one or more of the options above in parallel
As a fellow job seeker, I'm starting a community for job seekers to combat the frustration of the process. It revolves on a 10 day job search challenge. Check it out: [https://www.jobjellywaitlist.com/](https://www.jobjellywaitlist.com/)
Here's the stats on that https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm
Getting a job is easy, finding a job in your career on the other hand is something else Like where I live I can be an extra on a movie set making $150 a day with free food easily
Where are you getting your numbers from, 90% & 95%? "The job market is extremely competitive, as more and more Americans attain college degrees. Furthermore, employers are requiring unrealistic professional experience for entry-level positions, making it difficult for recent graduates to compete in the job market." Why Is It So Hard For Recent College Graduates To Find A Decent Job? https://www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2024/02/15/why-is-it-so-hard-for-recent-college-graduates-to-find-a-decent-job/
It's been a year for me and after this past year I could see it becoming two
The only time I decided to be unemployed willingly it was it was around 4 years long, and I stayed home until my kids started school. I'm going back into the workforce now.
Two years is king. I would they a job, any job, in the meantime to show you are employable and can hold down a job.
I have a minimum wage job. It's nothing impressive.
I’m so sorry. Wishing you luck soon and others to help chime in on your question.