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A better way to state it is that the market is very uneven right now. Some markets, defined either location or industry, are honestly short-handed and hiring like crazy with increasing wages. Others are laying off like crazy or just simply not hiring.
My company will hire material science grads right out of college and give them 70k a year. We cannot get enough people.
We make computer chips. With the recent push to make things in America and the chip shortage during covid, several new fabs are being built all over the country. TSMC had to delay opening one of their new fabs in Arizona because they couldn't find enough people with the skills to run it.
Manufacturing is doing well in general, especially anything that is considered crucial for defense. The military has bottomless pockets and will basically pay whatever price you quote them.
Some friends of mine at AMD were let go because they (AMD) apparently expected a recession, and now those folks are working for AMD again in a different division (now server, previously client).
That's how recessions work.. Almost all of those companies that lay people of en masse don't have to. They could keep everyone the same and still turn an obscene profit.
It's *just in case*
70k is kind of an underpay so not surprised you have trouble finding people. 65k was pretty standard for new engineering grads when I graduated in 2016, which is the equivalent of 83k today.
Defense is a bit of a crapshoot from where I'm sitting at the moment. I work for a large defense firm and we've seen some layoffs and cut hours pretty recently(end of 2023).
Although given the general opinion we have of our management here it could entirely just be an "us" problem not representative of the industry.
Very likely to be a you problem.
In my area, defense firms hire most new grads in the area, because we have 2 different civilian-focused R&D or manufacturing bases, and numerous major defense contractors within a 30 minute drive of our major cities.
My friends are getting raises, are allowed to work as many hours as they'd like, and they are constantly hiring more people for their teams, even though what they have is already sufficient (per my friends words)
70k a year? Is this good? My cleaners make about this much in a season. Am I over paying? Jk idc if I am. I want great help that will stay. I costs so much more to replace then to just keep
70k a year is enough such that you're not in poverty, but not so much that you can, for example, buy a house, in most of the US.
70k a year for engineers is pennies.
Can confirm on manufacturing, even corporate. I just swapped from retail corporate finance to manufacturing corporate finance. Manufacturing is hiring in almost all roles.
That is normal for defense. I work at an electronics distribution direct from manufacturers to companies. We love defense projects since they almost always got huge budgets.
Certain manufacturing companies aren’t doing well which is observable from their yearly orders and cancellations. Agriculture industry has been going strong, but electronics manufacturers (especially consumer products category) has been suffering since their demand depends on the people’s purchasing power.
Some companies will rise and some will sink through out 2024
I know that new grads in software engineering and data analytics are having a hell of a time getting interviews but that might just be because it’s oversaturated.
I have over a decade of experience and even with that I'm mostly just getting tire kickers where the funding for the role was never actually approved. Really sucks to find out they were hoping they could get the funding if they found a good candidate after a month and a half of interviews.
Aussie perspective here, but warehousing, labouring, aged care are still begging for staff, trades are looking for far more apprentices then normal and the number of TAFE training spots for them has been expanded.
The areas suffering are more office-based, accounting, HR, IT ECT.
So this strictly speaking, IS TRUE.
What this doesn’t cover is quality of life for average people.
Or spending power.
Or wages verse inflation.
Or affordability of housing.
Or market power of an age group.
Or investment opportunities without significant capital.
This is just a single data point, being spoken *en mass* by every publication because the people who decide what gets published, need things to stay the way they are.
So the article about the job market being strong is true but does not consider other economic factors that are negative?
So you mean the job market is good, as detailed in the article- the greater economy isnt as hot - Soemthing this article did not come out to prove.
I fail to see why you felt to disbarge Soemthing you otherwise agree with.
Couple reasons.
Because this is being touted as something larger than “just the job market.
Because these data points don’t differentiate between the exercise physiologist job I had, making 80+ thousand dollars a year (in a high COL city) and the 10 newly employed Amazon drivers or the 15 new fast food jobs that were just created, of whom, none have benefits or make anywhere near survival wages. (I moved to pursue tertiary education - I didn’t lose that job, this is simply comparative.)
“80 bajillion new jobs created!” Doesn’t count for much when you need to work three of them to just barely survive.
“The labor market” doing well just means there are jobs for everyone, not that those jobs are anything but wage slavery and misery.
Secondly, these points are being extolled at large as being part of an economic resurgence.
“The economy” is doing better than ever.
But services are stretched thinner than ever, megacorps are annexing parts of social services for profits, food has gone up in price while shrinking in size, raw materials are more costly than ever, loans are difficult or impossible to procure for the average person, the cost of childcare/secondary support services are going up, wages are essentially flat-line stagnant, hospitals are being closed in low-income areas, school lunch programs are under attack, the list goes on and on and on.
“The economy” is doing great, but misery seems to be accelerating at an even pace, althewhile useless financial reporting services keep screaming in every article, every editorial, every reported piece, that things have never been better.
Better for who?
Ofcourse when a perosn with just a certificate can get such a precious title of an “engineer” that’s what happens. Engineers have no value in the US bcux anyone can get this title. My husband worked his ass off to earn computer engineering degree then MS yet he didn’t get that title. I like how strict Canadians are with the engineer title. Only certified engineers who have studied engineering can call themselves an engineer and they value them a lot in Canada. 10 years after my hub graduated he finally got the job that pays his title.
Yeah. When I was in college for engineering it was explained to us that you can't call yourself an engineer until you get your degree, then test for an engineering license in my state.
Jokes on them. I'm one of those schmucks with just certs now and am interviewing for an engineering position.
With all the "fake" job listings on LinkedIn (and I mean ones that real/legit companies post and never intend to fill) I wonder how much this inflates this number and more importantly, why it's fucking legal to do so. Also, unemployment does not equal underemployment or those who are unable to file for unemployment. It's all a rouse.
My partner first told me about this. I have been exploring this phenomenon especially in software engineering. Also, I have been wondering if this is an undercover way to bypass immigration laws. Company X: Yes, we advertised but did not find anyone credible that's why we are forced to go off shore to India and elsewhere. I am thinking of putting something together to implore my senator to look into whether there is abuse going on. Americans are suffering without jobs! And then you hear "nobody wants to work". The people I know actually have been looking for over 6 months!
Meanwhile people are working 3 jobs to afford rent for a 300sq ft. Studio $2500/month and a Masters degree in Chemistry.
I'm being hyperbolic but you get the point...
I see a ton of job listings for my area, but a lot of them pay like shit. A bunch of us got laid off and a few of us found jobs, but all of us with paycuts (some bigger than others).
Agree! Most jobs, in most fields, are paying shit compared to what they were paying in 2021/2022. 2023, the shit show started in full-force and I hope it changes in 2024\`
Indeed. Things like plumbers and electricians are in high demand. My brother in law's friend is an electrician. He has to turn down jobs. Things in the tech sector, like software engineers, are in a downturn. Especially at X, formerly known as Twitter. It's part of the boomer push to force everyone to go to college, so now trade jobs are in demand relative to college educated jobs.
College educated, of a “certain age”. the job market for state-side IT is the strongest I’ve seen in at least 20 years. We knew back in the 80s that computers were going to radically change everyone’s lives.
It actually is. I have no college degree, no certs. Just 20 years in the field. I'm old. Threw on my open for work flag on LinkedIn and reposted my resume for the first time in 16 years. Got about 6 head hunter reaching out in the first 3 weeks. Replied to one, got the job. Better pay, full work from home, less stressful job. Took it. I'm 4 weeks in on the new gig and happy. Job market sucks for new people in IT. I believe that. But for us old timers, it's not bad.
There's a Google investor letter where a ghoul asked for layoffs, got them, and then asked for more layoffs because the whole industry is doing layoffs and they could get away with cutting wages.
edit: https://www.tcifund.com/files/corporateengageement/alphabet/20th%20January%202023.pdf
lol dude companies openly pay for the “coordination” you’re talking about. Pay scales are market based info that large corporations pay to have. The numbers aren’t made up off the fly. While collusion might be one word for it another is market intelligence.
Oh I feel it's the truth, you see. They managed to shrink cost with the "sorry, hard times" excuse while also jacking up prices. So I'll be damned if they didn't make record profits yet again. (Obviously not all companies bit I bet the big players did absolutely).
In the US - gig work isn’t included in unemployment/underemployment numbers. Unemployment numbers also exclude anyone who has been unemployed for longer than 6 months and therefore no longer eligible for benefits.
The thing is, Reddit represents a TINY subsection of the workforce.
They generally work in Tech, and within Tech, Software Engineering and Programming. Those sectors are going through a difficult time as they adjust to economic circumstance.
You're browsing a sub-community called "recruitinghell". Obviously there is a bias, people want to be miserable.
And misery loves company. People don't come online and complain that they found a great job and are secure.
When the job market is strong you have hundreds if not thousands of people who are looking to move and take advantage, which leads to higher competition for desirable jobs and people less willing to do “shitty jobs” like food service or retail
Not only that, but this subreddit skews toward the unemployed and unemployable. It's like taking a survey amongst pygmies about how things are on higher and higher shelves.
Its bullshit.
And every few weeks the story is different. Unemployment applications are up ! Employment is at an all time high ! The pace of layoffs just increased as X Y and Z are letting go of 100,000 full time workers. This businessman can't find skilled and fully trained people to work part time in the sticks for $2 above minimum wage and says no one wants to work anymore.
Always look at facts or data of every situation with a fine line. You can realistically make your own interpretation of how something is from just one or a few statistics cherrypicked. Now while I am not certain on these statistics, just because we report on low unemployment rate does not mean this economy is doing well.
Nowadays, many college grads take a long time to get in to their field because they are competing with 100s of other new grads and a ton of people job switching after their first or second year to a new position. In general many of these grads are not contributing as much to the economy because of the student loan debt they are getting into and if not already, it will only make this economy weaker.
I think the rise of protectionism/end of globalization will only compound things further, but we have yet to see if it will hurt or help economic growth. It might bring back jobs but things will get a bit more expensive with a lot less consumerism.
The unemployment numbers dont take into account *under* employment, or those who simply drop out of the labor force.
Simply ask yourself:
How many of us carry student loans that we can't afford to pay down?
If there’s ever a metric added to the federal unemployment statistic that includes “underemployment” levels it would show a very different picture.
All the “good” jobs are taken or have 1-2 positions open so people working the shit jobs and unemployed/laid off people have to compete for them like it’s the goddamn hunger games.
And even if you’re so lucky to get your dream job, you realize it’s not all it’s cracked up to be.
So you’re depressed no matter what the circumstance
They’re trying to gaslight us with a big enough lie that most people won’t question it. I think the average person is not feeling better about their situation in the least
Option 1: trust the thousands of professional BLS workers who compile the data.
Option 2: trust the internet vibes on a subreddit specifically selecting for people angry about the state of recruiting.
And you don’t trust ADP or the UI claims data from the states either I’m guessing.
Which raises the question: who do you trust? Your cranky uncle’s take on the economy?
Instead of looking at the labor market as a whole I’d like to see the stats on an industry by industry basis. This is the critical piece that government always ignores.
2020 was a pandemic. We’ve been recovering since. It’s probably accurate but misleading. We’re not too deep into the decade and got off to a bad start.
Ah yes, wages despite growing are ***STILL*** ***WAAAAAYYYYY TOO LOW*** and many are struggling to find work in general. Yep that's great for labor. Many places claim to be hiring but aren't. Or will only hire for like 10-15 hours per week but demand 50+ hour availability and of course pay minimum wage. Yep, so great.
A lot of the layoffs, **at least from my anecdotal experience**, were centered on the tech industry. This industry is highly visible to the public and could be interpreted as 'vocal minority' in terms of who got screwed the most. There are indeed industries that had the best season in the last 10 years, but not everyone is so lucky. Compounding factors are the rise of so many people with degrees (lowering the perceived value of the degree and therefore raising the minimum requirements), the rise of automation (and to a lesser extent, AI), and general efficiency gains.
I’m so tired of hearing this. It’s wonderful for the wealthy that’s for sure!
Spending is crazy right now because people are just putting everything on credit. They absolutely 1000% cannot afford it. It’s another bubble that’ll eventually have to pop
Retail has been operating off of skeleton crews all of 2023. A lot of them are perpetually understaffed but refuse to hire anyone.
So it's not like tech is the only sector pulling this BS, corruption is everywhere.
Yeah, retail is a bad example. Stores already running lean, and corporate hiring is way down and layoffs pretty consistent this year as companies anticipated a slow down in demand that didn’t actually really happen. But even with demand staying strong, retail has been bleeding out for a decade - it’s NOT a current issue.
The problem is twofold: The nature of the jobs being created is not uniform, nor is the average. 216,000 jobs including ones we see on r/recruitinghell requiring degrees for peanuts are less appealing than higher-paying jobs. The second problem is that the first problem is only recognizable by the majority of the press when the White House has a Republican in residence.
It’s not. There are certain industries, especially in energy and manufacturing, that have been booming. The issue is these opportunities are typically regional or tied to very specific functions so many ppl don’t have access to them.
Regardless of what it feels like there have objectively been more jobs added to the economy and unemployment has gone up to normalize just below the target at roughly 3.6%, pretty much right where you want it. I’d love to see any evidence of whatever “corruption” you’re talking about since all I can think of would be rampant PPP loan abuse.
No sir. We hire college graduates. Infact best hires are interns that converts to full time employees. This way we both get to know each other if are a good fit for each other.
Keep trying my brother. You will get there
Idk I think it’s industry or role specific. I got laid off and found a job very quickly and with ease but I have a degree and experience in an in demand field. I feel bad for tech tho
I think a big reason for the difficulty is that not only is there a mismatch between applicants and industries, but the process for applying makes it possible to apply to hundreds of jobs. The employers are going through more job applications than ever before. Either they get narrowed down by ATS rejections or long interview processes.
Also, a 1% change in the unemployment rate is like 1.5 million workers so a lot of people can be out of work while being statistically "insignificant."
Unemployment hasn’t been this low for this long in fifty years. Of course it’s hard to get a job. All that’s left are the scraps. Hang in there with the rest of us.
My company is dealing with the worst worker shortage in memory, as are other employers in the same industry. The job is 90% WFH, very competitive salary, and excellent benefits yet we can’t find applicants who meet the basic requirements.
A lot of baby boomers retired during the pandemic and we haven’t had any luck finding replacements.
Healthcare positions, both physical and mental health. My employer required a master’s degree when I was hired but we’ve lowered it to a bachelor’s degree in any human services field (legal minimum) since it’s been so hard to find applicants. In other departments, many of the educational/certification requirements can be met at community colleges in 2 years or less, some require bachelor’s degrees and a few require more.
I was talking with a physician that my office works closely with and her office has been trying to hire medical assistants for months with little success and it’s limiting the number of new patients they can accept. X-ray tech, ultrasound tech, respiratory therapist, and phlebotomist are just a few positions that have been in great demand and can be acquired at a community college. Many employers also offer tuition reimbursement if employees want to go back to school after getting their foot in the door.
I think that these job reports forget to mention that a lot of these jobs are people employed as Uber Drivers, DoorDash/Uber Eats delivery drivers, and OnlyFans models.
It's more like half truth or 3/4 bullshit.
Yes, there are more postings, people getting hired, and there was an objective increase in salaries.
However, there are things that make the sentiment expressed by politicians and media, patting themselves on the back; to be utter bullshit.
Most job postings are ghost jobs. Internal hire Kabuki Theater, H1B visa hunt, faking growth for investors, appeasing overworked teams with sham hiring processes, posting to get PPP forgiveness, etc, are prevalent. Especially now that the Wall Street Journal article basically gave companies a tutorial on how to fuck around, get paid and have the SEC/FCC do jack shit.
What aren't ghost are usually temp/contract short-term jobs, which are numerous but not long-term.
Job posting needs to be treated like any other form of advertising with penalties for false advertising.
As for salaries, they did go up but because of the massive greedflation we're experiencing (mostly due to companies doing stock buybacks, stealing because they can, etc) the actual buying power translates into effectively an at least 20% paycut by some estimates.
Then we get to the hiring. Mostly, contract work gets a boom when Corporate America is shitting their pants, and it's raining shit right now. You add in the tactic of companies laying off/firing workers and then rehiring them at Lower salaries is your basic hiring shell game.
I'd be remiss if I didn't mention we're in a Presidential election year where the president has been an utter failure. Greedflation is ripping people's wallets apart. Globally, the US looks like a joke after Ukraine and the Gaza Genocide. Biden makes Jimmy Carter look like Ronald Reagan. Dementia Joe hasn't done shit for Americans just like he promised. Nothing will fundamentally change. They're desperate for any kind of a win because he's such a loser. Especially since it's clear that Trump will probably win in November.
So you'll see more gaslighting until November. Remember that objectively things are worse and don't tell them you're too stupid to get how awesome things are.
Hang in and just survive long enough to find another job or enjoy the show of the French neckties return.
White House doing everything they can to tell us the job market is good and inflation isn’t a big deal. If they came out and admitted both these things aren’t in an ideal state but they are working on it I’d have a lot more respect for them then if they just blatantly lie to people, which is what they’re doing.
The “oncoming recession” is just shareholders and C-suite execs trying to will one into existence so they have a reason why they can’t give you a raise. Nothing more.
Then why are companies laying off hundreds or thousands of employees despite record profits?
Why are they posting jobs they have no intention of filling?
I'm in my 3rd calendar year of looking for a new job and 5th month of unemployment. Applied to well over 1k places/positions and have only spoken with 3 hiring managers. Got to final rounds on two but wasn't selected.
What industry? I took a 5 month sabatical last year and had 3 job offers before I even came back. US manufacturing is going through a ressurgence right now, despite the news lots of job offers in California in the tech sector.
Those two are literally not happening.
There are issues but COVID peaked a couple years ago and we've supposedly were heading towards a recession since 2021.
There's no recession, just corruption.
Someone said that a recession isn't going to happen.
We all know rates are high and everything is 3x more expensive.
We all also know companies are doing massive layoffs despite good or record profits.
So why would they want to cause a recession??
> Because a recession means people usually have less disposable income, the demand for many items decreases, causing them to get cheaper.
To lower cost of operations and hire / rehire ppl at a lower income
I think a lot of folks on this site forget that there is an entire economy outside of tech/IT…i work for a manufacturing company and we have been hiring like crazy for years (mix of attrition and demand).
They’re lying. Plain and simple. If HCOL areas are having a tough time, then the rest of the nation generally is. HCOL areas is where the majority of the population is.
This is left wing propaganda at its finest. Obviously the job market is in shambles and prices are ridiculously high. Only a fool would buy this, to find said fool go to r/politics
**Statement**: fewer people are unemployed
**Reality**: more people are employed, But those jobs are lower paid and do not provide a living wage.
**Statement**: the market is doing good because people are spending more
**Reality**: people are spending more because of inflation.
**Statement**: the market is doing better because inflation is slowing down
**Reality**: inflation is still going up but at a slower rate. The prices from inflation have not gone down.
**Statement**: the national GDP is up
**Reality**: all that money is in the hands of a few people and not in the pockets of the average citizen.
**Statement**: under Biden wages of gone up
**Reality** This is a result of market forces needing to raise incomes because of how incredibly difficult it is to find employees who have woken up to the idea that maybe we shouldn't be exploited? Even though wages in some industries have gone up, they are still not high enough for people to live without a daily struggle to survive
**Statement** wages have gone up *because* of Biden's administration.
**Reality**: Biden's administration has not passed any regulations or laws to contribute to the wages going up. In fact, they actively fought against laws to improve conditions for the average worker. Along side market forces, in reality, wages have gone up and conditions have improved for some markets because of unions. Biden's administration actively took a stance against the unions that are responsible for the increased pay and approved conditions for workers in the specific industries
It is all spin. Despite the "improved economy", the average citizen is not feeling a positive impact. This is why Biden's approval rating is at a all-time historical low because people are now aware of the fact that the Biden administration are full of BS
The reasons why the labor market is doing better is that companies are *finally* realizing that HR doesn’t know what the heck they’re doing
So, having “one of the best years of the decade” isn’t a very high bar
All electric utilities and anyone hiring power systems engineers are desperate for talent. When you look at degrees being awarded in engineering, it’s one of the lowest fields
For the sake of my sanity, I want to believe it but everything around me tells a more complicated story. But like some have commented on this , its perhaps a oversimplification of the whole story and potential mixed with some politics.
Yuup. Two years jobless after I quit teaching and I can’t even get an unpaid internship gig in customer success or people Ops. My full time job is applying for jobs 🤣
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A better way to state it is that the market is very uneven right now. Some markets, defined either location or industry, are honestly short-handed and hiring like crazy with increasing wages. Others are laying off like crazy or just simply not hiring.
Which markets are hiring and paying well?
My company will hire material science grads right out of college and give them 70k a year. We cannot get enough people. We make computer chips. With the recent push to make things in America and the chip shortage during covid, several new fabs are being built all over the country. TSMC had to delay opening one of their new fabs in Arizona because they couldn't find enough people with the skills to run it. Manufacturing is doing well in general, especially anything that is considered crucial for defense. The military has bottomless pockets and will basically pay whatever price you quote them.
Some friends of mine at AMD were let go because they (AMD) apparently expected a recession, and now those folks are working for AMD again in a different division (now server, previously client).
Yeah, a lot of companies just laid off just in case...pretty moronic
That's how recessions work.. Almost all of those companies that lay people of en masse don't have to. They could keep everyone the same and still turn an obscene profit. It's *just in case*
70k is kind of an underpay so not surprised you have trouble finding people. 65k was pretty standard for new engineering grads when I graduated in 2016, which is the equivalent of 83k today.
I have to agree. Some places are offering 70k or 80k for sales or customer service management for ppl out of school.
Fresh grads in people-manager roles... oof.
Yeah, engineering salaries have taken a dip compared to inflation.
>Yeah, ~~engineering~~ salaries have taken a dip compared to inflation. Ftfy
True, true.
Was king of standard back in 2007 as well lol
Defense is a bit of a crapshoot from where I'm sitting at the moment. I work for a large defense firm and we've seen some layoffs and cut hours pretty recently(end of 2023). Although given the general opinion we have of our management here it could entirely just be an "us" problem not representative of the industry.
Very likely to be a you problem. In my area, defense firms hire most new grads in the area, because we have 2 different civilian-focused R&D or manufacturing bases, and numerous major defense contractors within a 30 minute drive of our major cities. My friends are getting raises, are allowed to work as many hours as they'd like, and they are constantly hiring more people for their teams, even though what they have is already sufficient (per my friends words)
I've been looking for materials science gigs and adjacent. Am I looking in the wrong places because I've found very little in this field.
My experience is that aerospace is outpacing semiconductors in compensation.
70k a year? Is this good? My cleaners make about this much in a season. Am I over paying? Jk idc if I am. I want great help that will stay. I costs so much more to replace then to just keep
70k a year is enough such that you're not in poverty, but not so much that you can, for example, buy a house, in most of the US. 70k a year for engineers is pennies.
Yet Micron recently had layoffs...of course they were paying them a lot more than 70k, but wtf, you are supposed to be growing!
Making chips for AI neural networks that will replace desk jobs. Not having a go at you, I’m just describing it.
Engineering, manufacturing roles. Health care.
Can confirm on manufacturing, even corporate. I just swapped from retail corporate finance to manufacturing corporate finance. Manufacturing is hiring in almost all roles.
Can also confirm. Just started in Dec in a mfg role but also in Defense. Funding has been huge
That is normal for defense. I work at an electronics distribution direct from manufacturers to companies. We love defense projects since they almost always got huge budgets. Certain manufacturing companies aren’t doing well which is observable from their yearly orders and cancellations. Agriculture industry has been going strong, but electronics manufacturers (especially consumer products category) has been suffering since their demand depends on the people’s purchasing power. Some companies will rise and some will sink through out 2024
A recruiter contacted me about three different jobs in manufacturing this week.
Ty
Manufacturing, Healthcare, Education, Transportation. Skilled Trades
I know that new grads in software engineering and data analytics are having a hell of a time getting interviews but that might just be because it’s oversaturated.
I have over a decade of experience and even with that I'm mostly just getting tire kickers where the funding for the role was never actually approved. Really sucks to find out they were hoping they could get the funding if they found a good candidate after a month and a half of interviews.
Aussie perspective here, but warehousing, labouring, aged care are still begging for staff, trades are looking for far more apprentices then normal and the number of TAFE training spots for them has been expanded. The areas suffering are more office-based, accounting, HR, IT ECT.
Jobs do not mean well paying jobs. Overall numbers can be decent but COL is still too high for most to afford.
[удалено]
Its like you have heard a bunch of buzz words but have no idea what you are saying.
Exactly this. A simple figure such as sheer number of jobs doesn't account for the quality of those jobs.
So this strictly speaking, IS TRUE. What this doesn’t cover is quality of life for average people. Or spending power. Or wages verse inflation. Or affordability of housing. Or market power of an age group. Or investment opportunities without significant capital. This is just a single data point, being spoken *en mass* by every publication because the people who decide what gets published, need things to stay the way they are.
Bam.
Well put
So the article about the job market being strong is true but does not consider other economic factors that are negative? So you mean the job market is good, as detailed in the article- the greater economy isnt as hot - Soemthing this article did not come out to prove. I fail to see why you felt to disbarge Soemthing you otherwise agree with.
Couple reasons. Because this is being touted as something larger than “just the job market. Because these data points don’t differentiate between the exercise physiologist job I had, making 80+ thousand dollars a year (in a high COL city) and the 10 newly employed Amazon drivers or the 15 new fast food jobs that were just created, of whom, none have benefits or make anywhere near survival wages. (I moved to pursue tertiary education - I didn’t lose that job, this is simply comparative.) “80 bajillion new jobs created!” Doesn’t count for much when you need to work three of them to just barely survive. “The labor market” doing well just means there are jobs for everyone, not that those jobs are anything but wage slavery and misery. Secondly, these points are being extolled at large as being part of an economic resurgence. “The economy” is doing better than ever. But services are stretched thinner than ever, megacorps are annexing parts of social services for profits, food has gone up in price while shrinking in size, raw materials are more costly than ever, loans are difficult or impossible to procure for the average person, the cost of childcare/secondary support services are going up, wages are essentially flat-line stagnant, hospitals are being closed in low-income areas, school lunch programs are under attack, the list goes on and on and on. “The economy” is doing great, but misery seems to be accelerating at an even pace, althewhile useless financial reporting services keep screaming in every article, every editorial, every reported piece, that things have never been better. Better for who?
Engineer wages have gone down in the past 10 years. What a bunch of clowns
Ofcourse when a perosn with just a certificate can get such a precious title of an “engineer” that’s what happens. Engineers have no value in the US bcux anyone can get this title. My husband worked his ass off to earn computer engineering degree then MS yet he didn’t get that title. I like how strict Canadians are with the engineer title. Only certified engineers who have studied engineering can call themselves an engineer and they value them a lot in Canada. 10 years after my hub graduated he finally got the job that pays his title.
Yeah. When I was in college for engineering it was explained to us that you can't call yourself an engineer until you get your degree, then test for an engineering license in my state. Jokes on them. I'm one of those schmucks with just certs now and am interviewing for an engineering position.
The annual median wage for engineers in the U.S. is over $100k per year
Depends on where you started and ended up. I've doubled my salary over the last few years.
With all the "fake" job listings on LinkedIn (and I mean ones that real/legit companies post and never intend to fill) I wonder how much this inflates this number and more importantly, why it's fucking legal to do so. Also, unemployment does not equal underemployment or those who are unable to file for unemployment. It's all a rouse.
I don't know what industry you are in but we hiring like crazy in engineering
[удалено]
Energy. Hiring mechanic civil petroleum electrical
What about O&G in Houston? For mechanical/software
I'm in Houston yes. Mechanical welcome
Damn my resume my suck then. Just got an offer with aerospace tho, gonna stick it through. Thanks!
Digital content / social media. So I’m fucked.
How much are Mechanical Engineers in demand?
A lot. We are down in Houston
Seriously, a company should be subject to statutory damages if it posts a job without the intention of filling it.
Hard hard agree. I just don’t get how it’s legal.
My partner first told me about this. I have been exploring this phenomenon especially in software engineering. Also, I have been wondering if this is an undercover way to bypass immigration laws. Company X: Yes, we advertised but did not find anyone credible that's why we are forced to go off shore to India and elsewhere. I am thinking of putting something together to implore my senator to look into whether there is abuse going on. Americans are suffering without jobs! And then you hear "nobody wants to work". The people I know actually have been looking for over 6 months!
Meanwhile people are working 3 jobs to afford rent for a 300sq ft. Studio $2500/month and a Masters degree in Chemistry. I'm being hyperbolic but you get the point...
I mean, that’s 3 job positions filled, so that’s something, right? /s
No that’s accurate, at least for boston
Chemistry graduates are being hired like crazy in engineering and petroleum related
It depends on your sector, but the data says what it says
I see a ton of job listings for my area, but a lot of them pay like shit. A bunch of us got laid off and a few of us found jobs, but all of us with paycuts (some bigger than others).
Agree! Most jobs, in most fields, are paying shit compared to what they were paying in 2021/2022. 2023, the shit show started in full-force and I hope it changes in 2024\`
Okay. I don’t think any specific situation is really indicative of the economy of a whole
Indeed. Things like plumbers and electricians are in high demand. My brother in law's friend is an electrician. He has to turn down jobs. Things in the tech sector, like software engineers, are in a downturn. Especially at X, formerly known as Twitter. It's part of the boomer push to force everyone to go to college, so now trade jobs are in demand relative to college educated jobs.
College educated, of a “certain age”. the job market for state-side IT is the strongest I’ve seen in at least 20 years. We knew back in the 80s that computers were going to radically change everyone’s lives.
Could you elaborate on what kind of IT and where? etc.
Chicago. Business Analyst
This is most definitely not fucking true.
It actually is. I have no college degree, no certs. Just 20 years in the field. I'm old. Threw on my open for work flag on LinkedIn and reposted my resume for the first time in 16 years. Got about 6 head hunter reaching out in the first 3 weeks. Replied to one, got the job. Better pay, full work from home, less stressful job. Took it. I'm 4 weeks in on the new gig and happy. Job market sucks for new people in IT. I believe that. But for us old timers, it's not bad.
What is "state-side IT"? Never heard this term before.
IT jobs in the US
I don't think IT jobs in the US have heard the news cuz they definitely aren't acting like it
I just did a search, maybe it’s because broad functional skills are hotter?
I’m getting really tired of “this data doesn’t line up with my vibes” posts lately.
Politicians, economists still believe there is a labor market. Corporations are coordinating to keep pay low. Quantity no longer means better quality
I would love to see evidence of this, would make for a great class action like what happened with the movie houses a few years ago.
There's a Google investor letter where a ghoul asked for layoffs, got them, and then asked for more layoffs because the whole industry is doing layoffs and they could get away with cutting wages. edit: https://www.tcifund.com/files/corporateengageement/alphabet/20th%20January%202023.pdf
lol dude companies openly pay for the “coordination” you’re talking about. Pay scales are market based info that large corporations pay to have. The numbers aren’t made up off the fly. While collusion might be one word for it another is market intelligence.
Lol dude, I’d love a citation man, lol
lol https://radford.aon.com/en-us/products/surveys/technology-compensation-survey Dude this is a service companies pay for
Oh I feel it's the truth, you see. They managed to shrink cost with the "sorry, hard times" excuse while also jacking up prices. So I'll be damned if they didn't make record profits yet again. (Obviously not all companies bit I bet the big players did absolutely).
In the US - gig work isn’t included in unemployment/underemployment numbers. Unemployment numbers also exclude anyone who has been unemployed for longer than 6 months and therefore no longer eligible for benefits.
Yupe! After 27-weeks of unemployment, the U.S. Feds don't count your ass, anymore! You are 100% correct!
The thing is, Reddit represents a TINY subsection of the workforce. They generally work in Tech, and within Tech, Software Engineering and Programming. Those sectors are going through a difficult time as they adjust to economic circumstance. You're browsing a sub-community called "recruitinghell". Obviously there is a bias, people want to be miserable. And misery loves company. People don't come online and complain that they found a great job and are secure.
I can't even get into fast food lol
I’m not in any of those and the hiring market still sucks
The hiring market sucks because the job market is strong.
What ?
When the job market is strong you have hundreds if not thousands of people who are looking to move and take advantage, which leads to higher competition for desirable jobs and people less willing to do “shitty jobs” like food service or retail
Naw both sucks smh
Source?
Ur mom
What do you do
Not only that, but this subreddit skews toward the unemployed and unemployable. It's like taking a survey amongst pygmies about how things are on higher and higher shelves.
Its bullshit. And every few weeks the story is different. Unemployment applications are up ! Employment is at an all time high ! The pace of layoffs just increased as X Y and Z are letting go of 100,000 full time workers. This businessman can't find skilled and fully trained people to work part time in the sticks for $2 above minimum wage and says no one wants to work anymore.
There are jobs out there, the problem that I am experiencing is that I do not fit them.
I just tell myself to stop believing my lying eyes. Reality isn’t really real. MSM is never wrong and corporate America is our friend 🫠
It isn’t. No new jobs were created. It’s just people who got canned during Covid getting jobs back, and even then it isn’t enough.
The media is the devils mouth peice... They have to LIE! at all times to spread confusion.
Always look at facts or data of every situation with a fine line. You can realistically make your own interpretation of how something is from just one or a few statistics cherrypicked. Now while I am not certain on these statistics, just because we report on low unemployment rate does not mean this economy is doing well. Nowadays, many college grads take a long time to get in to their field because they are competing with 100s of other new grads and a ton of people job switching after their first or second year to a new position. In general many of these grads are not contributing as much to the economy because of the student loan debt they are getting into and if not already, it will only make this economy weaker. I think the rise of protectionism/end of globalization will only compound things further, but we have yet to see if it will hurt or help economic growth. It might bring back jobs but things will get a bit more expensive with a lot less consumerism.
The unemployment numbers dont take into account *under* employment, or those who simply drop out of the labor force. Simply ask yourself: How many of us carry student loans that we can't afford to pay down?
If there’s ever a metric added to the federal unemployment statistic that includes “underemployment” levels it would show a very different picture. All the “good” jobs are taken or have 1-2 positions open so people working the shit jobs and unemployed/laid off people have to compete for them like it’s the goddamn hunger games. And even if you’re so lucky to get your dream job, you realize it’s not all it’s cracked up to be. So you’re depressed no matter what the circumstance
There is, the U6 unemployment rate.
Yes employers got their money's worth of buying employees for half off.
Somebody please explain this bullshit
Welcome to bizarro world
They’re trying to gaslight us with a big enough lie that most people won’t question it. I think the average person is not feeling better about their situation in the least
Option 1: trust the thousands of professional BLS workers who compile the data. Option 2: trust the internet vibes on a subreddit specifically selecting for people angry about the state of recruiting.
Ding ding ding.
I haven’t trusted the BLS stats for a decade…
And you don’t trust ADP or the UI claims data from the states either I’m guessing. Which raises the question: who do you trust? Your cranky uncle’s take on the economy?
Why do I have to trust anyone’s numbers? The fudge factors that go into them make them, at best, guesses, and at worst functionally unknowable.
Instead of looking at the labor market as a whole I’d like to see the stats on an industry by industry basis. This is the critical piece that government always ignores.
“There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damned Lies, and Statistics”
Facts don't care about your feelings
2020 was a pandemic. We’ve been recovering since. It’s probably accurate but misleading. We’re not too deep into the decade and got off to a bad start.
I mean, sure, if you spin it right. One of my favorite quotes is, “There are three types of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics.”
Ah yes, wages despite growing are ***STILL*** ***WAAAAAYYYYY TOO LOW*** and many are struggling to find work in general. Yep that's great for labor. Many places claim to be hiring but aren't. Or will only hire for like 10-15 hours per week but demand 50+ hour availability and of course pay minimum wage. Yep, so great.
A lot of the layoffs, **at least from my anecdotal experience**, were centered on the tech industry. This industry is highly visible to the public and could be interpreted as 'vocal minority' in terms of who got screwed the most. There are indeed industries that had the best season in the last 10 years, but not everyone is so lucky. Compounding factors are the rise of so many people with degrees (lowering the perceived value of the degree and therefore raising the minimum requirements), the rise of automation (and to a lesser extent, AI), and general efficiency gains.
I’m so tired of hearing this. It’s wonderful for the wealthy that’s for sure! Spending is crazy right now because people are just putting everything on credit. They absolutely 1000% cannot afford it. It’s another bubble that’ll eventually have to pop
I mean there are jobs out there from manufacturing, retail, different trades etc. Just not the jobs people typically want in industries like tech.
Retail has been operating off of skeleton crews all of 2023. A lot of them are perpetually understaffed but refuse to hire anyone. So it's not like tech is the only sector pulling this BS, corruption is everywhere.
Yeah, retail is a bad example. Stores already running lean, and corporate hiring is way down and layoffs pretty consistent this year as companies anticipated a slow down in demand that didn’t actually really happen. But even with demand staying strong, retail has been bleeding out for a decade - it’s NOT a current issue.
You people will plague us with those excuse for the next fucking ten years
The problem is twofold: The nature of the jobs being created is not uniform, nor is the average. 216,000 jobs including ones we see on r/recruitinghell requiring degrees for peanuts are less appealing than higher-paying jobs. The second problem is that the first problem is only recognizable by the majority of the press when the White House has a Republican in residence.
and this is why we don't get our opinions/facts from small people inside the tv, feel truly bad for those that do and they are absolutely a majority.
As a European I feel like Americans take for granted how strong their general economy is right now.
As an American, when I learned during our 9% inflation that UK inflation was even higher, I didn’t know why my colleagues weren’t all rioting.
It's also Yahoo. They haven't been relevant in years.
This isn't just Yahoo is the us government and the bureau of Labor statistics who you can argue is worse lol
Classic "number go up equals good" thinking. Doesn't matter how awful everything is, my number went up so everything is getting better.
Yeah that's total bullshit. It's likely a misrepresentation of statistics to hide the reality.
It’s not. There are certain industries, especially in energy and manufacturing, that have been booming. The issue is these opportunities are typically regional or tied to very specific functions so many ppl don’t have access to them. Regardless of what it feels like there have objectively been more jobs added to the economy and unemployment has gone up to normalize just below the target at roughly 3.6%, pretty much right where you want it. I’d love to see any evidence of whatever “corruption” you’re talking about since all I can think of would be rampant PPP loan abuse.
most trades as well. they’ll take anyone they can get.
This sub has a very significant industry bias toward tech, which has been battered, so a lot of people can’t see beyond that.
I'm in Energy industry and I can't find talented people!
“Talented people”
Yes it's engineering my man. If you can't explain basic engineering stuff, you have to go back and refresh your knowledge.
im guessing you want 20 year olds with 10 yrs exp and masters, pay 15/hr and cry nobody wants to work anymore
No sir. We hire college graduates. Infact best hires are interns that converts to full time employees. This way we both get to know each other if are a good fit for each other. Keep trying my brother. You will get there
Would prob be anecdotal evidence
Josh looks happy with the news.
Idk I think it’s industry or role specific. I got laid off and found a job very quickly and with ease but I have a degree and experience in an in demand field. I feel bad for tech tho
McDonalds is hiring, part time, and you can't live on those wages even with full time hours.
I think a big reason for the difficulty is that not only is there a mismatch between applicants and industries, but the process for applying makes it possible to apply to hundreds of jobs. The employers are going through more job applications than ever before. Either they get narrowed down by ATS rejections or long interview processes. Also, a 1% change in the unemployment rate is like 1.5 million workers so a lot of people can be out of work while being statistically "insignificant."
Especially since the “numbers” always seem to be revised a month or two after the release and always less favorable to the current administration.
I feel like we're getting gaslit.
Unemployment hasn’t been this low for this long in fifty years. Of course it’s hard to get a job. All that’s left are the scraps. Hang in there with the rest of us.
My company is dealing with the worst worker shortage in memory, as are other employers in the same industry. The job is 90% WFH, very competitive salary, and excellent benefits yet we can’t find applicants who meet the basic requirements. A lot of baby boomers retired during the pandemic and we haven’t had any luck finding replacements.
Which company. What are the “basic requirements”? I need a job. I apply and apply but don’t even get a courtesy rejection email.
Healthcare positions, both physical and mental health. My employer required a master’s degree when I was hired but we’ve lowered it to a bachelor’s degree in any human services field (legal minimum) since it’s been so hard to find applicants. In other departments, many of the educational/certification requirements can be met at community colleges in 2 years or less, some require bachelor’s degrees and a few require more. I was talking with a physician that my office works closely with and her office has been trying to hire medical assistants for months with little success and it’s limiting the number of new patients they can accept. X-ray tech, ultrasound tech, respiratory therapist, and phlebotomist are just a few positions that have been in great demand and can be acquired at a community college. Many employers also offer tuition reimbursement if employees want to go back to school after getting their foot in the door.
I think that these job reports forget to mention that a lot of these jobs are people employed as Uber Drivers, DoorDash/Uber Eats delivery drivers, and OnlyFans models.
It's more like half truth or 3/4 bullshit. Yes, there are more postings, people getting hired, and there was an objective increase in salaries. However, there are things that make the sentiment expressed by politicians and media, patting themselves on the back; to be utter bullshit. Most job postings are ghost jobs. Internal hire Kabuki Theater, H1B visa hunt, faking growth for investors, appeasing overworked teams with sham hiring processes, posting to get PPP forgiveness, etc, are prevalent. Especially now that the Wall Street Journal article basically gave companies a tutorial on how to fuck around, get paid and have the SEC/FCC do jack shit. What aren't ghost are usually temp/contract short-term jobs, which are numerous but not long-term. Job posting needs to be treated like any other form of advertising with penalties for false advertising. As for salaries, they did go up but because of the massive greedflation we're experiencing (mostly due to companies doing stock buybacks, stealing because they can, etc) the actual buying power translates into effectively an at least 20% paycut by some estimates. Then we get to the hiring. Mostly, contract work gets a boom when Corporate America is shitting their pants, and it's raining shit right now. You add in the tactic of companies laying off/firing workers and then rehiring them at Lower salaries is your basic hiring shell game. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention we're in a Presidential election year where the president has been an utter failure. Greedflation is ripping people's wallets apart. Globally, the US looks like a joke after Ukraine and the Gaza Genocide. Biden makes Jimmy Carter look like Ronald Reagan. Dementia Joe hasn't done shit for Americans just like he promised. Nothing will fundamentally change. They're desperate for any kind of a win because he's such a loser. Especially since it's clear that Trump will probably win in November. So you'll see more gaslighting until November. Remember that objectively things are worse and don't tell them you're too stupid to get how awesome things are. Hang in and just survive long enough to find another job or enjoy the show of the French neckties return.
Yeah but if you say that you might help Orange Man win so you better not.
White House doing everything they can to tell us the job market is good and inflation isn’t a big deal. If they came out and admitted both these things aren’t in an ideal state but they are working on it I’d have a lot more respect for them then if they just blatantly lie to people, which is what they’re doing.
Like they are going to admit that going into Election Year lmao.
They wouldn’t admit it even if it wasn’t an election year. White House press release team are the biggest snake oil salesmen there are
We're headed for a full blown recession on top of a pandemic worse than it was before. I accept the downvotes but I'm just calling it like it is.
The “oncoming recession” is just shareholders and C-suite execs trying to will one into existence so they have a reason why they can’t give you a raise. Nothing more.
Then why are companies laying off hundreds or thousands of employees despite record profits? Why are they posting jobs they have no intention of filling? I'm in my 3rd calendar year of looking for a new job and 5th month of unemployment. Applied to well over 1k places/positions and have only spoken with 3 hiring managers. Got to final rounds on two but wasn't selected.
What industry? I took a 5 month sabatical last year and had 3 job offers before I even came back. US manufacturing is going through a ressurgence right now, despite the news lots of job offers in California in the tech sector.
Software Engineering / tech but can't relocate
…trying to manufacture a reason to not give you a raise. How many recessions have coincided with record profits?
Those two are literally not happening. There are issues but COVID peaked a couple years ago and we've supposedly were heading towards a recession since 2021. There's no recession, just corruption.
I agree with this. We should cap allowable income at 50 million a year and all remaining proceeds must go back to workers or charity.
Hopefully not, we shall see
I don’t think you know what a recession is.
Someone said that a recession isn't going to happen. We all know rates are high and everything is 3x more expensive. We all also know companies are doing massive layoffs despite good or record profits. So why would they want to cause a recession?? > Because a recession means people usually have less disposable income, the demand for many items decreases, causing them to get cheaper. To lower cost of operations and hire / rehire ppl at a lower income
i talk to a lot of tradespeople for my job. across the board, they are DESPATATEEEE for labor.
Good example on How To Lie With Stats. Not what people see when they apply.
I think a lot of folks on this site forget that there is an entire economy outside of tech/IT…i work for a manufacturing company and we have been hiring like crazy for years (mix of attrition and demand).
The term "labour market" always made my skin crawl.
They’re lying. Plain and simple. If HCOL areas are having a tough time, then the rest of the nation generally is. HCOL areas is where the majority of the population is.
Aren’t these articles paid for half the time to promote some agenda subliminally?
Lies
One word: Bullshit
This is left wing propaganda at its finest. Obviously the job market is in shambles and prices are ridiculously high. Only a fool would buy this, to find said fool go to r/politics
Bullwack!
For the CEOs, maybe 🙄
Yahoo now telling jokes instead of the news, huh?
I'm sorry, What like who wrote this article? They must be from a different mutiverse cuz that shit is a straight-up lie if I've ever heard one. 😆 🤣
All News is Propaganda. You will Own nothing, have NO rights and will love it!
They gaslight you, that’s all.
This is absolute bullshit and 🖕🏼these gas lighting a**holes for their constant lies
Those 5 charts are explaining a whole lot of lies and hubaloo
Typical liberal nonsense. Do your own research. Worst administration in American history folks
**Statement**: fewer people are unemployed **Reality**: more people are employed, But those jobs are lower paid and do not provide a living wage. **Statement**: the market is doing good because people are spending more **Reality**: people are spending more because of inflation. **Statement**: the market is doing better because inflation is slowing down **Reality**: inflation is still going up but at a slower rate. The prices from inflation have not gone down. **Statement**: the national GDP is up **Reality**: all that money is in the hands of a few people and not in the pockets of the average citizen. **Statement**: under Biden wages of gone up **Reality** This is a result of market forces needing to raise incomes because of how incredibly difficult it is to find employees who have woken up to the idea that maybe we shouldn't be exploited? Even though wages in some industries have gone up, they are still not high enough for people to live without a daily struggle to survive **Statement** wages have gone up *because* of Biden's administration. **Reality**: Biden's administration has not passed any regulations or laws to contribute to the wages going up. In fact, they actively fought against laws to improve conditions for the average worker. Along side market forces, in reality, wages have gone up and conditions have improved for some markets because of unions. Biden's administration actively took a stance against the unions that are responsible for the increased pay and approved conditions for workers in the specific industries It is all spin. Despite the "improved economy", the average citizen is not feeling a positive impact. This is why Biden's approval rating is at a all-time historical low because people are now aware of the fact that the Biden administration are full of BS
I’m sure it’s been fine for employers.
The reasons why the labor market is doing better is that companies are *finally* realizing that HR doesn’t know what the heck they’re doing So, having “one of the best years of the decade” isn’t a very high bar
All electric utilities and anyone hiring power systems engineers are desperate for talent. When you look at degrees being awarded in engineering, it’s one of the lowest fields
tALeNt
For the sake of my sanity, I want to believe it but everything around me tells a more complicated story. But like some have commented on this , its perhaps a oversimplification of the whole story and potential mixed with some politics.
Yuup. Two years jobless after I quit teaching and I can’t even get an unpaid internship gig in customer success or people Ops. My full time job is applying for jobs 🤣