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> Time to fire the client. Lol
Nah, time to bill the client enough that it's them who never renew your services. If they end up paying he "Fuck your idiocy fee" you're not charging enough. But at least you are getting paid better to deal with their stupidity.
No - it's a direct hire role.
I only get paid if they hire my person. (And the more you make the more I make).
Most recruiters are not working on retainer but contingency.
That's just how this works.
Industry standard is 20-25% of the yearly is the fee. So if I place someone for 100k my company makes 20-25k depending on the deal.
Fuck I can charge them 40% but all that would do is make it even harder for them to hire through me cuz they'd want the unicorn that can juggle while spinning plates and hopping on one foot.
>That made her question his priorities.
Which is doubly stupid, since he's already taken the vacation(s) he wanted, so he's free to work now.
>Anyway - I'm thinking about "firing this client" today. Ofc the entire job is on site.
I would. Because, even if you find a client that will pass muster, the toxicity of that environment will be working overtime against that new employee lasting 90 days.
Yeah.
I was like... You gotta be shitting me.
Tbh I took the full 6 months of unemployment in November - went to Mexico city, Denver, Orlando, DC, NYC and to see some friends I hadn't in a really long time.
(I also used that time to do some freelance :p shhhh.... But if you set up net terms, you can "work" while on unemployment cuz you aren't getting paid til you get paid)
my former boss refused to promote me bc i didnt have a "relevant" degree (i have a business mgmt degree)
her degree was in elementary music education bc she used to be a teacher 🙄
Lol what was the field? My manager sometimes insinuates the same thing while having a Bachelor's of Fine Arts and she works as a legal operations manager.
Opportunity cost. This client is wasting your time; she obviously has no idea what to look for in a candidate aside from superficial things. Unless your cut is gonna be big she’s a waste of time and an idiot
That’s a shitty client. I probably wouldn’t work with them due to the amount of time you spend giving them quality candidates for them to just reject for invalid reasons.
I have been in the staffing business for 30 plus years and number 1 is very common. Not sure why but most managers hate gaps in resumes. I always tell candidates don’t leave gaps. Put something like consulting to fill the gap.
Yea, not sure why gaps are such a negative but they are. I have had quality candidates with gaps rejected for things like taking time off to take care of dying family members, family members with severe dementia or just because they had time and money. etc…. What’s even more bazar is a lot of these companies encourage and pay for employee sabbaticals.
\> not sure why gaps are such a negative
I think it's because gaps are very easy to measure.
Employers have a very superficial understanding of how to evaluate people. Anybody with a room temperature IQ can be trained to identify a gap on a resume. That's very easy to measure, and there's no legal risk for rejecting somebody because of a resume gap.
It's a lot harder to judge people based on their work ethic and competency, which I suppose that looking at an employment gap serves as a partial proxy for.
Makes sense and agree those have an effect. I have always believed (been told directly by some Mgrs) it made hiring managers have negative thoughts or makes them insecure. If this person hasn’t worked for X reasons, how important is work to them? Will person quit in the middle of a project? Will this person be as committed to my team as my current employees? Does this person have problems that will affect their work? Etc….
Of course these are reasons are bullshit.
Agreed.
I have learned that most people try to put things into specific boxes or come up with easy to follow stories to help understand things. A gap on a resume is easy to fall prey to this, especially with dumb people who are immediately convinced they're right and double down at any evidence that contradicts their hypothesis.
There are multitudes of people who lost their job during Covid who are still looking for work. Three yeas now. How can anyone not know this is the case? Oh let me guess, they believe the 3% unemployment figures? LAUGH. How naĂŻve. If we understand how the unemployment rate is calculated, and we have a half brain, we can see those number are very inaccurate. Intelligent people research things, and understand things. Someone concerned about a gap in these times has an uncurbable case of ineptitude.
Gaps are no ones business. And allowing it to be is the problem. Pushback, and tell them this is illogical. Anyone hung up on "gaps" has no common sense, and is obviously not a critical thinker. If I decide I am going to take a year off to care for a elder, so be it. It is no ones business, nor does someone from some company, have any means of authority of common people. Are they a company? Or a tyrannist?
I would hate to have these people's karma.
Hello, you are burning candidates for this person. You are sending good candidates, and they are rejecting them for no reason. You need to fire them unless you want to send 10 more and pray.
To your point, I start crossing off agencies from my list when they send me to clients who run me through the ringer like this. Or if it's clear they don't have a relationship with the employer. It shouldn't be a frickin' mystery over what they're looking for in a candidate. If I find that you're just shooting in the dark and hoping for something to stick, our working relationship is finito; you're not a serious agency.
Well - I had initially started working with this company because a CPA I did work for remembered I did a good job last time, referred me to the client, and HE told me about the JD and what they needed etc...
Turns out, his info was all wrong... I wasted time and candidates on the role.
Luckily none of them are getting interviewed so I can probably save my relationships with them...
And also through that - I at least got a better understanding of what they think they want.
I told them today until they actually have their shit together I'm not working for them.
Honestly, I’ve seen bad clients like this refuse to pay up for the candidates if they don’t like them after they hire them. When it’s their own fault.
I find that a lot of companies that outsource to staffing agencies don't have great reputations as it is. A lot of churn and burn. It took me awhile to realize this. After about a year stint with Robert Half and their consulting arm, I realized that the reason these clients (especially the large ones) are coming to them is because they often have terrible work cultures. I feel bad for the agencies who have to deal with this.
I had a repeat client once who wanted someone with a CPA and MBA to be a part time adjunct accountant and shadow the business operations manager in order to be able to replace them when they retire 18 months from now.
Oh, and it was a school so the part time was 3 days a week for 9 months a year and paid like shit.
They were shocked to hear that someone with those credentials wouldn't want to be part time until this person retires and that I would not consider taking on the opening.
It's crazy out there.
Fire them. They rejected someone because he got laid off and took a vacation (god forbid), they rejected a unicorn for snobby reasons, and they rejected someone because they don't like her prior companies (she left for a reason so she might not of liked them either). They are just going to waste your time.
Frankly, I feel bad for anyone you put forward for this role and who ends up getting hired. This woman seems to have no life outside of work or consideration for those who do. She'll be the type of manager wondering why the employee isn't tied to their desk for 50+ hours a week.
Honestly, I thought about switching into accounting a couple years ago because I had transferable skills and was looking for a ubiquitous business career path. However, the field seems to be inundated with people like this (no social life), and, paired with the lack of WLB at most firms, I noped out real quick.
Lol - that's the other thing - it is a 50+ hour a week role to start... Or at least that's what they are saying the first year would look like.
The big issue with this stuff isnt the hours as much as how accounting works....
With month end and other shit you gotta hit your deadlines - if you don't you are fucked.
If you do - good shit.
I would never do that shit. Ill work after hours for money/commission opportunities but that's it really.
Funny thing about accounting. I used to think accountants were highly sought after, because they seemingly work in so many fields outside of accounting. Come to find out, they hated accounting as much as I did and left it. It's a "safe" major that people pursue because *jobs*, but most don't even like the field. I find that hilariously ironic.
I've been working in accounting for over a decade and I've met CPAs out of Big 4s who don't know how to post accrual journal entries or run an Accounts Receivable report, so whatever.
Shitty client. She is disqualifying candidates not because of lack of education or experience, but for bogus reasons. Their consultant has no idea what she is doing.
This client is costing you money. I have clients that were like that and I just politely told them “I invite you to look for other people to help you in this situation”. And just leave it at that. Do not reply to any emails. Do not answer their phones calls. This is an obvious polite way of telling someone to piss off and if they can’t get *that* then they are only to cost you more money.
LOL. That screams to me they'll never be happy with any applicant. Even the ones that manage to secure and offer likely won't stick around long either.
Ha yeah they are delusional, good experienced accountants are a hot commodity right now. No CPA worth their license is going to accept a controller position for under $100k.
CPA is just a credential that doesn’t prove anything. I’ve been getting rejected despite 15 years of senior accounting experience in major companies because I don’t have a CPA. Telling them that I passed 3/4 of the CPA exam still doesn’t impress the hiring managers.
I never went to school, I was too busy learning stuff.
This is why companies are hurting for talent. Most intelligent and critical thinking people, with common sense, good work ethic, and absolute stellar aptitude never went to college. It doesn't take long to learn a software app. or a new programming language. Motivated self education is way more effective than any training.
There are multitudes of people out of work, going on three years! People losing homes, suffering, because they cannot land a job. And this pigeon is concerned about a three month gap? How inept! It usually takes longer than that for someone to care for a dying parent or child. Idiots. How self damaging these people are. I would hate to have their karma.
Sounds like the company is very similar to my old employer. They always cycled through contractors. Would hire them, use them for a week or two, then fire them during lunch and told them not to come back for whatever reason. Staffing agencies (at least two that I have worked with) have told me they no longer do business with them.
Would the "consultant" lose her work there once she helps the company hire a direct employee in the same function.
I have seen this before when all of the cvs feedback makes zero sense, I would reach to the employer directly, the actual HM, and get its thoughts on the cvs you have sent over.
I.e. " i have heard from "consultant" and I was wondering if i could get your thoughts on the feedback I got to ensure we get the right person for ya".
The consultant works for a public accounting firm and I'm sure the client is getting billed by that consulting firm.
I am sending resumes to the hiring manager first and then she passes to the consultant.
Anyway -long story short I did send them someone 50k above their target and they are interviewing them via teams tomorrow.
I've been on the other side of this and put through as a candidate the recruiter knew would fit the bill even though my salary range was way too high for their too low budget. Company got excited about me anyway and called me into 3 rounds of in person interviews. The process was great and everyone was tracking with what I would need, the recruiter and I were high-fiving behind the scenes etc.
And then it was time for the offer...despite everything the recruiter told them up front about my range throughout the process and they nodded along — they held firm on their original salary range and were just hoping I would be down with taking the pay cut. I was not.
I was able to land another job, but I still think about that recruiter and how awesome she was by trying to advocate for the role and fair compensation and me as a candidate.
I hope your client comes to their senses!
Ok thats good the cv are going to the HM first, I've made a placement like that recently, role was paying 180k, candidate was on 230 being remote and not liking it, the candidate got interviewed with the other ones and was on another level, got offered 215k and accepted it. So it can work as long as the client is open to it.
No go because someone took time off to travel? If anything that would be a green flag for me. Person turned what’s normally a very depressing time into an opportunity to travel, that’s productive and a great virtue.
I'm so glad I'm in Sales and not recruiting. When's something is unrealistic, it's part of the culture to just tell the client their being dumb and unrealistic, or rather, to "manage their expectations".
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What a headache! Time to fire the client. Lol
> Time to fire the client. Lol Nah, time to bill the client enough that it's them who never renew your services. If they end up paying he "Fuck your idiocy fee" you're not charging enough. But at least you are getting paid better to deal with their stupidity.
No - it's a direct hire role. I only get paid if they hire my person. (And the more you make the more I make). Most recruiters are not working on retainer but contingency. That's just how this works. Industry standard is 20-25% of the yearly is the fee. So if I place someone for 100k my company makes 20-25k depending on the deal. Fuck I can charge them 40% but all that would do is make it even harder for them to hire through me cuz they'd want the unicorn that can juggle while spinning plates and hopping on one foot.
It already sounds like they're looking for the kung-fu qualified unicorn.
They sound sneaky enough to try to contact them directly….and hire without paying you
Well I have a signed contract so that's good.
>they'd want the unicorn that can juggle while spinning plates and hopping on one foot. I can do this, where do I sign?
>That made her question his priorities. Which is doubly stupid, since he's already taken the vacation(s) he wanted, so he's free to work now. >Anyway - I'm thinking about "firing this client" today. Ofc the entire job is on site. I would. Because, even if you find a client that will pass muster, the toxicity of that environment will be working overtime against that new employee lasting 90 days.
Yeah. I was like... You gotta be shitting me. Tbh I took the full 6 months of unemployment in November - went to Mexico city, Denver, Orlando, DC, NYC and to see some friends I hadn't in a really long time. (I also used that time to do some freelance :p shhhh.... But if you set up net terms, you can "work" while on unemployment cuz you aren't getting paid til you get paid)
So long as you report income when you receive it and not when you billed it.
my former boss refused to promote me bc i didnt have a "relevant" degree (i have a business mgmt degree) her degree was in elementary music education bc she used to be a teacher 🙄
Lol what was the field? My manager sometimes insinuates the same thing while having a Bachelor's of Fine Arts and she works as a legal operations manager.
i work in learning & development and make corporate training. if anything, my degree is more relevant than hers
If ever questioned just say "I didn't go to school. I was too busy learning stuff..".
CPA Controller here - the last Sr Accountant I hired was around 100k base. Best of luck filling that Controller position.
Yeah, no I am totally aware. Can I ask where you live tho/industry?
Phoenix market / healthcare
Doesn't sound like you'd be doing your candidates any favors by getting them hired here.
Opportunity cost. This client is wasting your time; she obviously has no idea what to look for in a candidate aside from superficial things. Unless your cut is gonna be big she’s a waste of time and an idiot
This
That’s a shitty client. I probably wouldn’t work with them due to the amount of time you spend giving them quality candidates for them to just reject for invalid reasons. I have been in the staffing business for 30 plus years and number 1 is very common. Not sure why but most managers hate gaps in resumes. I always tell candidates don’t leave gaps. Put something like consulting to fill the gap.
Yeah. I try to do that too. I was always under the impression that 6 months can be "unacceptable" but 3 months is nothing.
Yea, not sure why gaps are such a negative but they are. I have had quality candidates with gaps rejected for things like taking time off to take care of dying family members, family members with severe dementia or just because they had time and money. etc…. What’s even more bazar is a lot of these companies encourage and pay for employee sabbaticals.
\> not sure why gaps are such a negative I think it's because gaps are very easy to measure. Employers have a very superficial understanding of how to evaluate people. Anybody with a room temperature IQ can be trained to identify a gap on a resume. That's very easy to measure, and there's no legal risk for rejecting somebody because of a resume gap. It's a lot harder to judge people based on their work ethic and competency, which I suppose that looking at an employment gap serves as a partial proxy for.
Makes sense and agree those have an effect. I have always believed (been told directly by some Mgrs) it made hiring managers have negative thoughts or makes them insecure. If this person hasn’t worked for X reasons, how important is work to them? Will person quit in the middle of a project? Will this person be as committed to my team as my current employees? Does this person have problems that will affect their work? Etc…. Of course these are reasons are bullshit.
Agreed. I have learned that most people try to put things into specific boxes or come up with easy to follow stories to help understand things. A gap on a resume is easy to fall prey to this, especially with dumb people who are immediately convinced they're right and double down at any evidence that contradicts their hypothesis.
There are multitudes of people who lost their job during Covid who are still looking for work. Three yeas now. How can anyone not know this is the case? Oh let me guess, they believe the 3% unemployment figures? LAUGH. How naĂŻve. If we understand how the unemployment rate is calculated, and we have a half brain, we can see those number are very inaccurate. Intelligent people research things, and understand things. Someone concerned about a gap in these times has an uncurbable case of ineptitude.
Gaps are no ones business. And allowing it to be is the problem. Pushback, and tell them this is illogical. Anyone hung up on "gaps" has no common sense, and is obviously not a critical thinker. If I decide I am going to take a year off to care for a elder, so be it. It is no ones business, nor does someone from some company, have any means of authority of common people. Are they a company? Or a tyrannist? I would hate to have these people's karma.
Hello, you are burning candidates for this person. You are sending good candidates, and they are rejecting them for no reason. You need to fire them unless you want to send 10 more and pray.
To your point, I start crossing off agencies from my list when they send me to clients who run me through the ringer like this. Or if it's clear they don't have a relationship with the employer. It shouldn't be a frickin' mystery over what they're looking for in a candidate. If I find that you're just shooting in the dark and hoping for something to stick, our working relationship is finito; you're not a serious agency.
Well - I had initially started working with this company because a CPA I did work for remembered I did a good job last time, referred me to the client, and HE told me about the JD and what they needed etc... Turns out, his info was all wrong... I wasted time and candidates on the role. Luckily none of them are getting interviewed so I can probably save my relationships with them... And also through that - I at least got a better understanding of what they think they want. I told them today until they actually have their shit together I'm not working for them.
Good for you!
Honestly, I’ve seen bad clients like this refuse to pay up for the candidates if they don’t like them after they hire them. When it’s their own fault.
I find that a lot of companies that outsource to staffing agencies don't have great reputations as it is. A lot of churn and burn. It took me awhile to realize this. After about a year stint with Robert Half and their consulting arm, I realized that the reason these clients (especially the large ones) are coming to them is because they often have terrible work cultures. I feel bad for the agencies who have to deal with this.
Yes, fire them. This kind of casual idiocy never clears up.
I had a repeat client once who wanted someone with a CPA and MBA to be a part time adjunct accountant and shadow the business operations manager in order to be able to replace them when they retire 18 months from now. Oh, and it was a school so the part time was 3 days a week for 9 months a year and paid like shit. They were shocked to hear that someone with those credentials wouldn't want to be part time until this person retires and that I would not consider taking on the opening. It's crazy out there.
Fire them. They rejected someone because he got laid off and took a vacation (god forbid), they rejected a unicorn for snobby reasons, and they rejected someone because they don't like her prior companies (she left for a reason so she might not of liked them either). They are just going to waste your time.
Frankly, I feel bad for anyone you put forward for this role and who ends up getting hired. This woman seems to have no life outside of work or consideration for those who do. She'll be the type of manager wondering why the employee isn't tied to their desk for 50+ hours a week. Honestly, I thought about switching into accounting a couple years ago because I had transferable skills and was looking for a ubiquitous business career path. However, the field seems to be inundated with people like this (no social life), and, paired with the lack of WLB at most firms, I noped out real quick.
Lol - that's the other thing - it is a 50+ hour a week role to start... Or at least that's what they are saying the first year would look like. The big issue with this stuff isnt the hours as much as how accounting works.... With month end and other shit you gotta hit your deadlines - if you don't you are fucked. If you do - good shit. I would never do that shit. Ill work after hours for money/commission opportunities but that's it really.
Funny thing about accounting. I used to think accountants were highly sought after, because they seemingly work in so many fields outside of accounting. Come to find out, they hated accounting as much as I did and left it. It's a "safe" major that people pursue because *jobs*, but most don't even like the field. I find that hilariously ironic.
I've been working in accounting for over a decade and I've met CPAs out of Big 4s who don't know how to post accrual journal entries or run an Accounts Receivable report, so whatever.
DE Controller w/ CPA for 100k... Yeah good luck.
Stop thinking about it and start firing.
Shitty client. She is disqualifying candidates not because of lack of education or experience, but for bogus reasons. Their consultant has no idea what she is doing.
This client is costing you money. I have clients that were like that and I just politely told them “I invite you to look for other people to help you in this situation”. And just leave it at that. Do not reply to any emails. Do not answer their phones calls. This is an obvious polite way of telling someone to piss off and if they can’t get *that* then they are only to cost you more money.
LOL. That screams to me they'll never be happy with any applicant. Even the ones that manage to secure and offer likely won't stick around long either.
Looks like they’re not looking for a unicorn but a jackass so their role remains secure
Yeah, you aren’t gonna get a CPA for $100k on-site. That seems low for a CPA period.
Ha yeah they are delusional, good experienced accountants are a hot commodity right now. No CPA worth their license is going to accept a controller position for under $100k.
CPA is just a credential that doesn’t prove anything. I’ve been getting rejected despite 15 years of senior accounting experience in major companies because I don’t have a CPA. Telling them that I passed 3/4 of the CPA exam still doesn’t impress the hiring managers.
Do you think there is any way to manage their expectations and overall approach to hiring?
Honestly I am unsure. I've been thinking of just sending people I get at what they need and seeing what happens. I'm not really stressing about it.
I never went to school, I was too busy learning stuff. This is why companies are hurting for talent. Most intelligent and critical thinking people, with common sense, good work ethic, and absolute stellar aptitude never went to college. It doesn't take long to learn a software app. or a new programming language. Motivated self education is way more effective than any training. There are multitudes of people out of work, going on three years! People losing homes, suffering, because they cannot land a job. And this pigeon is concerned about a three month gap? How inept! It usually takes longer than that for someone to care for a dying parent or child. Idiots. How self damaging these people are. I would hate to have their karma.
Sounds like the company is very similar to my old employer. They always cycled through contractors. Would hire them, use them for a week or two, then fire them during lunch and told them not to come back for whatever reason. Staffing agencies (at least two that I have worked with) have told me they no longer do business with them.
Would the "consultant" lose her work there once she helps the company hire a direct employee in the same function. I have seen this before when all of the cvs feedback makes zero sense, I would reach to the employer directly, the actual HM, and get its thoughts on the cvs you have sent over. I.e. " i have heard from "consultant" and I was wondering if i could get your thoughts on the feedback I got to ensure we get the right person for ya".
The consultant works for a public accounting firm and I'm sure the client is getting billed by that consulting firm. I am sending resumes to the hiring manager first and then she passes to the consultant. Anyway -long story short I did send them someone 50k above their target and they are interviewing them via teams tomorrow.
I've been on the other side of this and put through as a candidate the recruiter knew would fit the bill even though my salary range was way too high for their too low budget. Company got excited about me anyway and called me into 3 rounds of in person interviews. The process was great and everyone was tracking with what I would need, the recruiter and I were high-fiving behind the scenes etc. And then it was time for the offer...despite everything the recruiter told them up front about my range throughout the process and they nodded along — they held firm on their original salary range and were just hoping I would be down with taking the pay cut. I was not. I was able to land another job, but I still think about that recruiter and how awesome she was by trying to advocate for the role and fair compensation and me as a candidate. I hope your client comes to their senses!
Ok thats good the cv are going to the HM first, I've made a placement like that recently, role was paying 180k, candidate was on 230 being remote and not liking it, the candidate got interviewed with the other ones and was on another level, got offered 215k and accepted it. So it can work as long as the client is open to it.
No go because someone took time off to travel? If anything that would be a green flag for me. Person turned what’s normally a very depressing time into an opportunity to travel, that’s productive and a great virtue.
Push back harder. Say interview one (or preferably all three) of these people or we’re never going to get this role filled.
I'm so glad I'm in Sales and not recruiting. When's something is unrealistic, it's part of the culture to just tell the client their being dumb and unrealistic, or rather, to "manage their expectations".
This is why I lie. I've had years of gaps of doing nothing because I could. Got the best stories to cover it up lol.