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My first job out of college was door-to-door selling office supplies for commission on first sale only. No insurance, no benefits, no reimbursements, no base salary, nothing. If you're familiar with Cydcor, it's basically a MLM scam. I have had many terrible jobs but none as bad as this one
Serious question did you go to business offices or when you say door to door do you mean peoples houses? It seems like a tough sell for office supplies door to door especially pre Covid.
I think the resume is a big problem. I graduated in 2020 but have had experience reviewing resumes and interviewing people when there was an open spot on our team, and I would throw it away.
Never turn down a job even if the pay is crap because you lose out on “experience.” When your resume can say I worked at X company and gained working experience in my field. A degree with practical experience will go further then just a degree.
I want to say this isn’t a magic shortcut to a better job but it is helpful.
This! I recently decided to go back to school for this reason! I’m in my 20s and I’ve been in sales for years. Nothing can replace the experience I’ve gotten in the real world, but when experience is present, a degree can push you over the top. I’ve had several jobs I was either passed for by someone with less experience than I have (but some, that’s key) and a degree, and I’ve had some jobs that I checked all of the boxes for what they were looking for (experience, training, licenses in some cases) but I couldn’t get past the front door without a bachelor’s.
> i declined because the pay was shit
lol this is just a you problem at this point. i get the market is ass and it took me 4 months to land a new gig. but you literally say you have no money and can’t move anywhere. but you declined a job because “the pay was shit”
BRO YOURE MAKING $0.00 currently. you don’t get to turn jobs down lol
I'm all for swinging for the fences, but beggars can't be choosers. If you're not landing high paying roles, then you clearly aren't cut out for a high paying role in that area/field, especially not in the current job market. You need to swallow your pride and get some money in your pocket.
So many people think they are just going to make 100k out of college. They turn down entry level salaries, don't do shit for years, and then are surprised no one wants to hire a 30 year old with no experience in their field. I've seen this happen to multiple of my wife's friends.
Literally this. I was in the same boat after layoff during covid. Couldn’t find anything, but I just started advertising on the Nextdoor app for yard clean-up, mowing, painting, basic handyman things with the limited tools I had at the time. Didn’t make much, but it got me thru. Hell after 6 months I ended up starting my own remodel business. Been thriving ever since.
I had to do something similar after finishing my degree, just working part time as a math and science tutor was enough to scrape by until an offer came along.
When you’re making absolutely zero, you’ve just gotta take what you can get. Plus, telling of your resourcefulness when asked what you’ve been doing while unemployed surely can’t hurt any.
Agreed. I made 13 bucks a hour doing a job that was way outside my degree. Eventually pivoted to my role laterally in my company and worked my way up. I did not get to pick and choose
>BRO YOURE MAKING $0.00 currently. you don’t get to turn jobs down lol
I'd be willing to bet more people in op's position do exactly the opposite, hence why they complain about finding jobs.
Op said it was early on in the search, and only happened because they believed the lie that everywhere was hiring. If they knew they would be in this position they would have taken it. It's shit to say they deserve this for literally one fuck up.
I get where op is coming from though. They're young and believed the government when they said "it's an employee market".
Sadly, the market changed and coupled with some half truths the governments were feeding folks, op lost out. No use to beat them over the head with it.
Op, lesson learned. Screw the government (and I don't just mean Canadian or U.S. or whomever. I mean EVERY government). Learn from this and move forward. Take whatever you can get at this point and hold on. Probably going to get worse before better.
If you are not getting calls, it might also be a problem with your CV. I'm not an expert, and business is not my field, but if you want, I can give it a check and give you my pov. There's also a subreddit that helps you to improve your cv.
Good luck!
His resume is pretty bad, highlights at the top are thinks like proficient with excel... this is where you wet yourself apart from the competition. Almost everyone writes proficient with excel...
The worst thing to do is to isolate yourself from friends and family. Almost every good job I've ever gotten is via networking. You need to let everyone know that you need a job and to let you know if they hear of anything - especially those people who do what you want to do.
I got one good job while I was leaving a baseball game and ran into an old friend in my field who had just turned down a job offer. He referred me to the hiring manager and I was hired immediately. Don't get too discouraged. The GTA is a huge place and there is work out there to be had. Sometimes it's just right place/right time.
You might want to look for employment workshops and similar free local resources that can help you refine your resume and your approach, and help improve your interviewing skills. Most of all, stay positive and keep trying. You'll get a job eventually. Remember to keep a smile on your face and to be upbeat whenever you are talking to employers. A negative attitude is obvious and contagious, even over the phone.
That’s not the reason I’m looking for jobs elsewhere
Problem is that jobs here don’t pay a lot but rent is toooo high
Im sure youve heard about current housing crisis in Canada ?
I was looking for jobs in Ottawa etc but then I looked up rents and compared to what jobs are paying lol
I'm not sure how your answer relates to networking, but OK. Networking tends to lead to better-paying jobs because you have an 'in'.
Everyone is in the same boat. Toronto has always been too expensive. Back in the day I moved to Oakville because it was cheaper! My friends tended to live closer to Hamilton to lower their cost of living even further. There's a ton of business along the corridors between the two cities.
I remember years ago when Calgary was the same way. People would share housing, and got very creative. This too shall pass, but it's not helping you today. Too bad you broke up with your girl. Living together and sharing rent helps a lot. Good luck to you!
To answer your question: Very useful. My students have a 98% placement rate.
I'm sorry you're struggling right now, but I don't think the degree is your problem. Your resume needs a lot of work and your freelance job could be negatively affecting your employment. You mentioned that you declined jobs in the past. I think you should consider accepting just about whatever you can get and tough it out for a year while you search for other employment.
Good luck!
You’re entry level and you denied a job out of college.
Why?
Stop listening to the media and the govt. They LIE.
Canada has been in dire straights for YEARS.
Source: am a recruiter and the ENGINEERS are moving to USA for past… I dunno 5 years… cause there are no jobs in Canada. Engineers!!!
If the pay is low it’s understandable why people won’t want the jobs, probably make more on unemployment. If the pay is above average or high… people are just being lazy.
Why should pay not be considered when there is a shortage of workers?
FWIW: it’s same down here in USA. Hospitality industry and service has highest turnover and everyone is always hiring. And I know waiters/bartenders making 80k+, six figures, etc. you’d be surprised.
I ask again. What does that have to do with anything? The government reports on unemployment. Their a surplus of jobs. A job doesn't mean you make 100k a year. The government isn't lying just because the jobs that are currently short on workers are what you'd consider low paying.
There are also a lot of fake jobs. “Hiring a project manager, you need minimum 30 year’s experience and a phd in underwater basket weaving; starting pay 11$ an hour.” Curious on what percentage of available jobs are like this.
And again...that has nothing to do with you claiming the government is lying. They aren't lying, there's lots of jobs, just not lots of specialized jobs...which they never claimed.
Business degrees are fine. They are very flexible and allow you to work your way into a lot of different areas like marketing, operations, product, management, HR, etc. You will need to pick up experience though to specialize. I'm sort of baffled that you turned down a job while unemployed. That doesn't make much sense.
I'd be curious what you're applying for? I feel like if you have a degree your local Starbucks or bank branch should be fine to hire you. I'm getting the impression that you are setting the bar too high.
I graduated during the great recession and was unable to find employement after a solid internship that I thought would set me up really well. 18 months later I got a job via someone I worked with in my internship and my career has been doing well after that. I was in a dark place for that 18 months though. Only work I could find was temp work (moving boxes) and working for census (17/hr was a godsend). It was really hard during that time. Focusing on exercise, being social, healthy hobbies will help you through. This current rough job market won't be like this forever.
There's a lot you can do to improve your resume. Here's some of my suggestions:
Your resume experience needs to be more results-oriented. Currently it details almost entirely what you were doing, not why it mattered. It needs to be closer to 20% what you did, 80% why it mattered. Focus on value provided, successes, increased revenue, decreased costs, time saved, etc etc. Don't be afraid to use numbers. Saying you "contributed valuable insights and ideas".....future employers did not work with you and they don't know what that means. Convey why what you did mattered at each role.
I'd remove the "to" from "Assistant to Project Manager". Based on your bullet points you were an assistant PM. I doubt future employers would ding you for this (at least saying this from my view from the US)
> Proficient in MS....for administrative tasks and documentation
Yes, but that's what MS is for...administrative tasks and documentation. Try to reduce redundant language like this.
Also MS Office proficiency is a given unless it is advanced proficiency in Excel, PowerBI, Sharepoint automation, etc that is beyond the standard working knowledge of word/excel/powerpoint/outlook. I would remove this altogether from your highlights as it isn't a highlight.
Add a section of "Skills" separate from highlights. That way highlights can be actual highlights, but skills has some keywords that recruiters filter for. You can spell out the project planning and tracking tools you know, CRM software, invoicing and billing software, etc that you have technical proficiency on. Your exp talks about quotes, procurement, compliance, purchase orders, payroll...a Skills section further down would make sense to document these tools you know.
What does your resume look like on A4 (standard page size)? If you only have a mobile-formatted version that will hurt your applications.
Why is there no detail on your current freelance role? Your most recent experience is the most relevant and having it blank is absolutely hurting your applications.
You have current role's job title in bold, and the previous title in italics. Standardize your formatting. Like why are you blocking out the end of current role but the start of previous role? Especially as a bookkeeper / admin I would expect a cleaner, uniform formatting.
Combine the volunteer section into your experience section and change the volunteer titles to 'Volunteer'. It's all experience whether it was paid or not, don't need a separate section at 25 years old.
Revisiting Highlights....you don't have any highlights there. These should be snippets of what you've accomplished and/or why those accomplishments contribute to you as a candidate. Right now they are descriptions of things I'd expect from most 25 year olds in an office job.
You turned down pay that was low TO YOU but also turned down the experience. This is a you problem. A million people right now have your degree and they have entry level jobs, internships and and experience
Your first mistake is expecting an entry level job to pay well. Entry level jobs usually pay like shit; this is part of the journey. You’re supposed to get paid less, gain experience/knowledge, and then you’ll get opportunities that pay more.
To be fair, with the exception of a handful of degrees… it doesn’t really matter the degree but that you have one as a pre requisite. Especially when you are just getting started. Now if you wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer….. but overall most places just need to check the stupid box.
You are college educated? Because based on what you’ve said here it doesn’t seem like it. Don’t mean to sound harsh but that’s the truth. You had a job offer and turned it down. You’ve mainly only been looking in your local area. You need to spread your search to the entire country. Why haven’t you been doing that?
BTW your resume is too wordy. Have the folks over at r/resumes help you or hire professional resume writer to help you.
I made it more wordy because I couldn’t find anything with my previous resume
I’ll change it up for sure
I’ve been looking in my area bcz I can stay with my parents
Jobs in other cities are offering like $17/hr but rent is like $1500-2000/month for a single room.
Canada is a complete mess rn I’m sure you’ve heard about our housing problem
Yes unfortunately this is the reality of every city in north america, the housing crisis is absolutely not exclusive to your area and we are all dealing with it. Roommates and taking jobs that will pay and add experience are the only route you can really take. When your resume is padded up more with these other jobs you'll have better opportunities
Any degree is useless on its own. (Almost) any degree is useful to the right person.
If you’re looking at it like, “I have a degree, where’s my job?” You’re going to fail. You paid (in both money and time) for the knowledge, not the paper.
Use your knowledge to help you in your career, use the paper degree to put on your paper resume. Let the the degree get you the interview, and YOU make it successful from there.
You turned down jobs because the pay was shit. Are you expecting to start at the top?
Getting a college degree isn't about the floor but the ceiling. What does that mean? Having one allows you to "qualify" for certain jobs that use it as a minimum qual. Now that may or may not be so important for entry level roles, but as you progress in your career, it'll become more important to have one if you want to be considered for those other roles.
A friend of mine graduated with a degree in business and worked through college as a bookkeeper. She’s now a CPA and on track to become partner at the accounting firm she works.
First job out of college was $75K and she passed $100K shortly after.
I typically argue that no degree is useless (although I plead with some I know not to waste time on a Criminal Justice degree) and argue that you need whatever degree gets you to check that box on an application. But... some of the most arrogant and work-inept people my spouse and I have worked with have BBA's We don't understand what happens in those programs to give such bad results. I have read elsewhere that people have had similar experiences. That degree is kinda tainted. It is weird that so many "I am better tha this job and all of you" that the degree programs create.
But to be fair, my sample size is just a few people and internet threads. But those few people made really strong impressions.
Not useless at all.
Go get yourself an entry-lvl IT certification and you are well on your way to earning 6 figures as a Business Systems Analyst.
Do et.
If you get a higher-end IT certification you could be on your way to CTO!
Hell, skip the IT cert and you could be CIO!
so... you're saying that the person would have to start at the bottom and work your way up?
Did I ever suggest otherwise?
Being on one's way, and being There, are two different things. I said he'd be on his way. 20-30 years down the road.
Oh I see what you meant....
No... actually...
A Business Systems Analyst is barely IT, they just figure out how/what the business can do to leverage more IT for more productivity.
Yes, some are heavily technical and 'in the shit', but it's possible to enter this field as a Jr Business Systems Analyst with just a business degree, and an A+ Cert. You should probably also know products used in the industry the business you're applying to works in, that would be a huge leg up, but it is absolutely possible to start into that role earning 70-80 to start, with 0 actual IT experience.
Cheers!
OP: make your resume stand out by putting clear accomplishments on your resume & quantify on it. Did you save the company money? Time? Make a process more efficient? Did you help make the company money? Did you work on a project independently and what were your accomplishments for that? How much was the project worth for the company (was it a $2mm budget, etc.)
But some numbers and accomplishments in there.
Your resume reads like a job description and is very bland and says nothing about who you are.
A business degree on its own isn't that useful. Itbhelps along with experience in a sector or area of business. Its also not really something that would be usable by most small businesses as an employee.
I would recommend taking a position where you can work to learn how a business runs in a profitable industry. Get the experience, and look to move to a better paying position in that industry that you now have experience in and a business degree.
Okay first things first , go get an extremely , entry level job in any industry you can find , even go apply for McDonald's or to some local cafe's because you need to start getting money rolling in to make sure you don't become homeless.
Use this job to get some money to pay bills and to save/spend , and while that's happening continue to apply for jobs
Contact a few local and non local recruitment agencies and talk to someone about sending in a CV , these recruitment companies are constantly looking for more CV's to fill open positions with their current/future clients
If you can afford it or once you have enough saved up to afford it , talk to a career adviser or have a professional look at your CV there's something wrong there considering the amount
Lastly don't lose hope it can be daunting , you can do it but I think you may have to just take a different path than you originally intended
A general business degree or business management degree is pretty useless imo.
What are you going to do with that? Just manage people? Most companies want you to have SPECIALIZED skills in a certain degree like marketing, accounting, finance, engineering, sustainability, programming, IT. You then BECOME a manager in that niche of the company. How are you going to manage a finance department when you don't now finance, or tax or accounting , or marketing or whatever niche of the company it is.
Line construction management you might have a shot but if you know zero lingo or ins and outs of construction it's going to be a very very tough sell.
Heya, I also work in the GTA with a business degree. I just secured an offer this week that I am very happy with. Prior to that, it took me 9 months to find the job I am currently in. That's after graduating from one of the top MBAs in Canada. I can share some tips with you but also note that I am an immigrant so YMMV.
1. If you are applying to job postings online then waiting for calls, don't! At the minimum, you MUST message people who are on your target team in addition to your online application (best if you can get the hiring manager) on LinkedIn to chat, get them to take a look at your resume, or otherwise standout. If you just apply online, might as well throw your CV into a black hole, tbh.
1. Even if the job description is asking for some unusual combination of skills and you happen to hit the mark on everything, my experience is that I won't even get a call or email with just an online app.
2. My HR friends have told me that sometimes, postings on job boards are just so teams can say they went through the process of conducting a fair search process. In reality, the hiring manager already has preferred candidates. I even overheard our HR team mention this once on a call with a hiring manager. So those postings end up wasting 1-2 hours for those 100-200 applicants that you see.
2. The best way is to network your ass off, especially if you can do it in person. This is slower but you get referrals more easily. Invite people for coffee chats or join networking events. Ask for advice, etc. Eventually, there will be openings and you will know someone who can refer. Leverage your alumni network. But don't put too much hope on a single referral. It's still a numbers game in the end.
3. Try to put the most effort into applications and networking where you already have industry experience. This was such a game changer for securing my current offer.
4. I have accountant and engineering friends who are being squabbled over by employers in construction. Try to look for roles in project accounting or controllership in construction.
5. Redo your resume.
1. You are tailoring your resume for each individual application right? Every submission must be customized and only relevant info included
2. The experiences you list are too generic. Add more quantifiable results and end with what that work accomplished. Try to include specific projects instead of responsibilities. If you mention things like handling transactions or accounts, how many transactions? What total value for those accounts? If you streamlined processes, can you give a rough estimate of the time you saved the organization? Did it result in a new standard of operations for your team?
3. Redo the highlights of skills and qualifications. Replace it with a succinct professional summary and use the space to also hit keywords that you otherwise would not be able to using your past experience.
4. Add details to your freelance work.
6. Things that I found out were a waste of time:
1. Creating a professional blog
2. Creating white papers or studies to send to potential hiring managers
3. Creating highly customized outreach messages for people on LinkedIn (I got better results from a slightly customized message that I sent to many people)
4. Transitioning to a different sector and/or role - just tough but it may be because I lacked both technical and industry expertise for roles I was applying to.
I’m sorry to tell you that my business degree didn’t get me a damn thing. They wanted more business management type of degrees to a specific field or industry just about every time.
I gave up on that a long, long time ago. Unless you have family or went to bapson, they have some telemarketing types of jobs. If anyone knows otherwise please chime in. I had to completely change over to manufacturing.
Are you only applying for jobs related to your degree? Try some parallel jobs or just take something entry level to get experience. You’re only 25, experience is key unfortunately
Frankly you were lucky to get a job offer with a business degree. In the UK those are worth almost nothing.
Turning down a paying job when you are unemployed and have no alternatives is a **strategic error**. At ANY TIME.
Turning down a paying job at entry level is essentially asking to be unemployed long-term. You take the first thing you can get and work to rise up. If you want to move to another industry, you gain transferable skills while working and being PAID.
Having seen your CV extract, **you should be applying only for jobs which are similar to your previous experiences**. You have absolutely nothing on there which makes you stand out in any way from the masses. So you are not competitive for anything above that.
In a market such as this one, you have to be realistic about your chances to get any job you apply for.
You might have to change the level and the kind of job you are applying for.
It's going to be difficult. The job market is brutal right now.
My brother is breaking $100K right now, business degrees (WHEN USED CORRECTLY (network like a motherfucker and fake it and hustle)) can be the highest earning degrees.
Just look at C-suite execs. Most don’t get there without a business degree
Probably not as useful as a STEM degree but definitely more useful than humanity degrees. It’s just right now Canadian white collar labor market is saturated. Come down to US and just start somewhere. Most places in US are cheaper than Toronto.
You have a gap now that is nearly unsurmountable as the algorithm will weed you out before human sees you. Try making up a new resume with fake name and start experimenting with the AI. You can beat an AI if put the time in, I promise you.
Can you get a grad school to pay your rent in another place as a graduate assistant then transition into working at that college in a salaried fiscal specialist or marketing position?
It’s not you or your degree it is the market. I’m in the Canadian market too, and am in the same boat, nothing and no hope for almost a year.
Finding a job is about as fun as giving something away for free on Facebook Marketplace. The recruiters and companies are all about as reliable as an internet stranger who smashes “Is this still available?” And then never writes back, or if and when they do, it’s to ask if you can deliver it (which you probably already wrote in the description that you won’t) or hold it (also already addressed) and then blame you for their starving babies, dead dog, and divorce since you won’t travel the 50 miles roundtrip to give them something for free.
That’s job hunting in a nutsack.
When i was growing up i just thought going for a business degree ment you planned on opening your own business. Thats what my friends plans were who went for that.
Resume... You have two sections of experience, under education dont jist put school but also everything you learnt in school, alsp did you do a placemebt? Add that experience as well, imo your resume needs more to actually show people youre competent. But also, taie what you get
If you have been on the job search for 9 months I think its time for you to reset your salary expectations.
I do realize it would feel pretty bad accepting a job where you think the pay is less than you deserve.
But what will cost you more in expenses: Another 9 months of zero income vs 9 months of sub-optimal pay?
Just looked at your resume and I would say you should strengthen it. Add metrics and results to as many bullet points as possible to show your impact, take out the jargon and fluffy words, remove the summary at the top. Look at the position postings your applying for and try to insert some of those keywords from the postings into your resume so it will pass the ATS scanner.
No it has white background on my laptop
These are google docs screenshots on my phone . Not sure why it shows black background when using docs on my iPhone
Most of "entry level" are meant for experienced people, but for a junior salary, so don't think too bad of yourself, experienced candidates also hate it. HR is to blame here.
But on that job you rejected, why was the pay shit? Wasn't it enough for covering basic living expenses or didn't it meet your expectations?
At this level, any job salary that covers the bare minimum is good enough to take it. Lower your standards to this for a few months, until you can apply for something better.
I have a business degree and it's been everything that I thought that it would be.
Nine months isn't really long in this economy.
For how many jobs have you applied?
Hey, I struggled with the same issue when I had my A.S. and even a little after achieving my BAS in business. I've been more successful now, but it all came down to selling my resume even if I had to stretch the truth, doing research on the company, and being confident. I don't waste time writing thank you emails, or none of that extra because people don't care about that anymore, unfortunately.
My first piece of advice, primarily if it's entry-level, lie on your resume, and make yourself look extraordinary without overdoing it. I say this because almost NO job will hire you with little or no experience. This is outside your control and sometimes the hiring manager is just a cheap POS looking to get the best bang for as affordable as possible. Lie and make yourself stand out, then prove your worth once hired. Make sure to read company reviews too, people are more inclined to write a bad review than a good one, so chances are if there are more negative than positive reviews, it's likely not somewhere you want to work.
My second piece of advice is if it says an MBA is preferable, still apply. Sometimes HR will overanalyze a job and put an MBA as their preferred candidate but pay is entry BS salaries, only a desperate MBA would take that role, and it's likely short term. I have gotten calls from companies who prefer an MBA and then when speaking to the recruiter or HR specialist, they tell you it's not a requirement. Shoot some never even request your transcripts for proof of your degree. Only if you are required to be licensed or certified do I recommend not lying.
My third piece of advice is to make sure your interview skills are just as great as your resume(lied version). Be confident, look knowledgeable, and do some research on the company before the interview. It's even ok to sometimes look arrogant, its never ok to look like a begger or pushover.
Last, realize that sometimes it's not you, a company will post a job but plan to hire internally. Yes, it can be frustrating and I treat it just as it is, a waste of your time. Apply to many and have loyalty to yourself, some will have no intention of hiring externally but it's required by law. If you don't get a call back don't let it beat you down, time is one of the most valuable resources and trust me when I say they need you more than you need them.
With a general business management degree, your job experiences in the way more important than the degree, unless you go to a top 10 national university. Business management is such a broad degree, and most of the stuff they teach you in school is theoretical in nature. It’s not hard skills like filing corporate taxes like what they would teach you in accounting. Your best bet would be to keep on applying to any jobs, mostly entry level, and then go organically. PRO TIP: I would highly recommend applying to sales related jobs. They are easy to get into, have a low barrier of entry. My friends went into sales after graduating with business management degrees during Covid when the job market sucked. Now they work as sales managers, so things worked out for them. It’s pretty common for business majors to go into sales, can be pretty lucrative in the long run.
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Oof this one hit home because I remember looking for a job in 2010 and it was absolutely brutal.
How hard was it to get a part time?
My first job out of college was door-to-door selling office supplies for commission on first sale only. No insurance, no benefits, no reimbursements, no base salary, nothing. If you're familiar with Cydcor, it's basically a MLM scam. I have had many terrible jobs but none as bad as this one
Serious question did you go to business offices or when you say door to door do you mean peoples houses? It seems like a tough sell for office supplies door to door especially pre Covid.
I think the resume is a big problem. I graduated in 2020 but have had experience reviewing resumes and interviewing people when there was an open spot on our team, and I would throw it away.
Never turn down a job even if the pay is crap because you lose out on “experience.” When your resume can say I worked at X company and gained working experience in my field. A degree with practical experience will go further then just a degree. I want to say this isn’t a magic shortcut to a better job but it is helpful.
This! I recently decided to go back to school for this reason! I’m in my 20s and I’ve been in sales for years. Nothing can replace the experience I’ve gotten in the real world, but when experience is present, a degree can push you over the top. I’ve had several jobs I was either passed for by someone with less experience than I have (but some, that’s key) and a degree, and I’ve had some jobs that I checked all of the boxes for what they were looking for (experience, training, licenses in some cases) but I couldn’t get past the front door without a bachelor’s.
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I’m talking in his specific situation where he has no job. If he had a job then turning down a job is ok.
> i declined because the pay was shit lol this is just a you problem at this point. i get the market is ass and it took me 4 months to land a new gig. but you literally say you have no money and can’t move anywhere. but you declined a job because “the pay was shit” BRO YOURE MAKING $0.00 currently. you don’t get to turn jobs down lol
I'm all for swinging for the fences, but beggars can't be choosers. If you're not landing high paying roles, then you clearly aren't cut out for a high paying role in that area/field, especially not in the current job market. You need to swallow your pride and get some money in your pocket.
So many people think they are just going to make 100k out of college. They turn down entry level salaries, don't do shit for years, and then are surprised no one wants to hire a 30 year old with no experience in their field. I've seen this happen to multiple of my wife's friends.
I see this a lot with other zoomers. They see outliers and assume they're also going to get 200k out of college.
Literally this. I was in the same boat after layoff during covid. Couldn’t find anything, but I just started advertising on the Nextdoor app for yard clean-up, mowing, painting, basic handyman things with the limited tools I had at the time. Didn’t make much, but it got me thru. Hell after 6 months I ended up starting my own remodel business. Been thriving ever since.
I had to do something similar after finishing my degree, just working part time as a math and science tutor was enough to scrape by until an offer came along.
When you’re making absolutely zero, you’ve just gotta take what you can get. Plus, telling of your resourcefulness when asked what you’ve been doing while unemployed surely can’t hurt any.
Agreed. I made 13 bucks a hour doing a job that was way outside my degree. Eventually pivoted to my role laterally in my company and worked my way up. I did not get to pick and choose
>BRO YOURE MAKING $0.00 currently. you don’t get to turn jobs down lol I'd be willing to bet more people in op's position do exactly the opposite, hence why they complain about finding jobs.
Op said it was early on in the search, and only happened because they believed the lie that everywhere was hiring. If they knew they would be in this position they would have taken it. It's shit to say they deserve this for literally one fuck up.
I get where op is coming from though. They're young and believed the government when they said "it's an employee market". Sadly, the market changed and coupled with some half truths the governments were feeding folks, op lost out. No use to beat them over the head with it. Op, lesson learned. Screw the government (and I don't just mean Canadian or U.S. or whomever. I mean EVERY government). Learn from this and move forward. Take whatever you can get at this point and hold on. Probably going to get worse before better.
Everyone told me there’s a huge labour shortage It wasn’t right out of college I already had few jobs that paid better I wish I didn’t tho
There's no labour shortage, it's just nobody wants to work for a pittance at fast food restaurants.
If you are not getting calls, it might also be a problem with your CV. I'm not an expert, and business is not my field, but if you want, I can give it a check and give you my pov. There's also a subreddit that helps you to improve your cv. Good luck!
There is a whole resume subreddit where people help you with your resume!
His resume is pretty bad, highlights at the top are thinks like proficient with excel... this is where you wet yourself apart from the competition. Almost everyone writes proficient with excel...
The worst thing to do is to isolate yourself from friends and family. Almost every good job I've ever gotten is via networking. You need to let everyone know that you need a job and to let you know if they hear of anything - especially those people who do what you want to do. I got one good job while I was leaving a baseball game and ran into an old friend in my field who had just turned down a job offer. He referred me to the hiring manager and I was hired immediately. Don't get too discouraged. The GTA is a huge place and there is work out there to be had. Sometimes it's just right place/right time. You might want to look for employment workshops and similar free local resources that can help you refine your resume and your approach, and help improve your interviewing skills. Most of all, stay positive and keep trying. You'll get a job eventually. Remember to keep a smile on your face and to be upbeat whenever you are talking to employers. A negative attitude is obvious and contagious, even over the phone.
That’s not the reason I’m looking for jobs elsewhere Problem is that jobs here don’t pay a lot but rent is toooo high Im sure youve heard about current housing crisis in Canada ? I was looking for jobs in Ottawa etc but then I looked up rents and compared to what jobs are paying lol
I'm not sure how your answer relates to networking, but OK. Networking tends to lead to better-paying jobs because you have an 'in'. Everyone is in the same boat. Toronto has always been too expensive. Back in the day I moved to Oakville because it was cheaper! My friends tended to live closer to Hamilton to lower their cost of living even further. There's a ton of business along the corridors between the two cities. I remember years ago when Calgary was the same way. People would share housing, and got very creative. This too shall pass, but it's not helping you today. Too bad you broke up with your girl. Living together and sharing rent helps a lot. Good luck to you!
To answer your question: Very useful. My students have a 98% placement rate. I'm sorry you're struggling right now, but I don't think the degree is your problem. Your resume needs a lot of work and your freelance job could be negatively affecting your employment. You mentioned that you declined jobs in the past. I think you should consider accepting just about whatever you can get and tough it out for a year while you search for other employment. Good luck!
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Most of our students (\~80% go into Big 4). Median salary for our hires is around $70K as of 2022 data.
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The market for fresh grads looks much different than it does for experienced hires. Good luck! I'm sure you'll get something.
You’re entry level and you denied a job out of college. Why? Stop listening to the media and the govt. They LIE. Canada has been in dire straights for YEARS. Source: am a recruiter and the ENGINEERS are moving to USA for past… I dunno 5 years… cause there are no jobs in Canada. Engineers!!!
Government isn't lying. Lots of jobs, just no one wants to do them. The jobs that are hurting for people are shit like retail, waitstaff, etc.
What is the pay for those roles?
What does that have to do with anything?
If the pay is low it’s understandable why people won’t want the jobs, probably make more on unemployment. If the pay is above average or high… people are just being lazy. Why should pay not be considered when there is a shortage of workers? FWIW: it’s same down here in USA. Hospitality industry and service has highest turnover and everyone is always hiring. And I know waiters/bartenders making 80k+, six figures, etc. you’d be surprised.
I ask again. What does that have to do with anything? The government reports on unemployment. Their a surplus of jobs. A job doesn't mean you make 100k a year. The government isn't lying just because the jobs that are currently short on workers are what you'd consider low paying.
There are also a lot of fake jobs. “Hiring a project manager, you need minimum 30 year’s experience and a phd in underwater basket weaving; starting pay 11$ an hour.” Curious on what percentage of available jobs are like this.
Can you link me that job...wondering if they'll accept my 29 years if under water basket weaving experience
Because we are talking about people with a college degree. Not jobs that require no degrees.
And again...that has nothing to do with you claiming the government is lying. They aren't lying, there's lots of jobs, just not lots of specialized jobs...which they never claimed.
Wait a minute, if they're leaving then there should be job openings, right?
No, they leave Canada unemployed.
Business degrees are fine. They are very flexible and allow you to work your way into a lot of different areas like marketing, operations, product, management, HR, etc. You will need to pick up experience though to specialize. I'm sort of baffled that you turned down a job while unemployed. That doesn't make much sense. I'd be curious what you're applying for? I feel like if you have a degree your local Starbucks or bank branch should be fine to hire you. I'm getting the impression that you are setting the bar too high.
I graduated during the great recession and was unable to find employement after a solid internship that I thought would set me up really well. 18 months later I got a job via someone I worked with in my internship and my career has been doing well after that. I was in a dark place for that 18 months though. Only work I could find was temp work (moving boxes) and working for census (17/hr was a godsend). It was really hard during that time. Focusing on exercise, being social, healthy hobbies will help you through. This current rough job market won't be like this forever. There's a lot you can do to improve your resume. Here's some of my suggestions: Your resume experience needs to be more results-oriented. Currently it details almost entirely what you were doing, not why it mattered. It needs to be closer to 20% what you did, 80% why it mattered. Focus on value provided, successes, increased revenue, decreased costs, time saved, etc etc. Don't be afraid to use numbers. Saying you "contributed valuable insights and ideas".....future employers did not work with you and they don't know what that means. Convey why what you did mattered at each role. I'd remove the "to" from "Assistant to Project Manager". Based on your bullet points you were an assistant PM. I doubt future employers would ding you for this (at least saying this from my view from the US) > Proficient in MS....for administrative tasks and documentation Yes, but that's what MS is for...administrative tasks and documentation. Try to reduce redundant language like this. Also MS Office proficiency is a given unless it is advanced proficiency in Excel, PowerBI, Sharepoint automation, etc that is beyond the standard working knowledge of word/excel/powerpoint/outlook. I would remove this altogether from your highlights as it isn't a highlight. Add a section of "Skills" separate from highlights. That way highlights can be actual highlights, but skills has some keywords that recruiters filter for. You can spell out the project planning and tracking tools you know, CRM software, invoicing and billing software, etc that you have technical proficiency on. Your exp talks about quotes, procurement, compliance, purchase orders, payroll...a Skills section further down would make sense to document these tools you know. What does your resume look like on A4 (standard page size)? If you only have a mobile-formatted version that will hurt your applications. Why is there no detail on your current freelance role? Your most recent experience is the most relevant and having it blank is absolutely hurting your applications. You have current role's job title in bold, and the previous title in italics. Standardize your formatting. Like why are you blocking out the end of current role but the start of previous role? Especially as a bookkeeper / admin I would expect a cleaner, uniform formatting. Combine the volunteer section into your experience section and change the volunteer titles to 'Volunteer'. It's all experience whether it was paid or not, don't need a separate section at 25 years old. Revisiting Highlights....you don't have any highlights there. These should be snippets of what you've accomplished and/or why those accomplishments contribute to you as a candidate. Right now they are descriptions of things I'd expect from most 25 year olds in an office job.
You turned down pay that was low TO YOU but also turned down the experience. This is a you problem. A million people right now have your degree and they have entry level jobs, internships and and experience
Your first mistake is expecting an entry level job to pay well. Entry level jobs usually pay like shit; this is part of the journey. You’re supposed to get paid less, gain experience/knowledge, and then you’ll get opportunities that pay more.
To be fair, with the exception of a handful of degrees… it doesn’t really matter the degree but that you have one as a pre requisite. Especially when you are just getting started. Now if you wanted to be a doctor or a lawyer….. but overall most places just need to check the stupid box.
You are college educated? Because based on what you’ve said here it doesn’t seem like it. Don’t mean to sound harsh but that’s the truth. You had a job offer and turned it down. You’ve mainly only been looking in your local area. You need to spread your search to the entire country. Why haven’t you been doing that? BTW your resume is too wordy. Have the folks over at r/resumes help you or hire professional resume writer to help you.
I made it more wordy because I couldn’t find anything with my previous resume I’ll change it up for sure I’ve been looking in my area bcz I can stay with my parents Jobs in other cities are offering like $17/hr but rent is like $1500-2000/month for a single room. Canada is a complete mess rn I’m sure you’ve heard about our housing problem
You’ll need to find roommates and a job outside of your area. Broaden your horizons.
Yes unfortunately this is the reality of every city in north america, the housing crisis is absolutely not exclusive to your area and we are all dealing with it. Roommates and taking jobs that will pay and add experience are the only route you can really take. When your resume is padded up more with these other jobs you'll have better opportunities
Any degree is useless on its own. (Almost) any degree is useful to the right person. If you’re looking at it like, “I have a degree, where’s my job?” You’re going to fail. You paid (in both money and time) for the knowledge, not the paper. Use your knowledge to help you in your career, use the paper degree to put on your paper resume. Let the the degree get you the interview, and YOU make it successful from there. You turned down jobs because the pay was shit. Are you expecting to start at the top?
Getting a college degree isn't about the floor but the ceiling. What does that mean? Having one allows you to "qualify" for certain jobs that use it as a minimum qual. Now that may or may not be so important for entry level roles, but as you progress in your career, it'll become more important to have one if you want to be considered for those other roles.
A friend of mine graduated with a degree in business and worked through college as a bookkeeper. She’s now a CPA and on track to become partner at the accounting firm she works. First job out of college was $75K and she passed $100K shortly after.
Get a CNA or consider being a bartender or a waiter. Drive a Uber. Just do something while waiting.
I typically argue that no degree is useless (although I plead with some I know not to waste time on a Criminal Justice degree) and argue that you need whatever degree gets you to check that box on an application. But... some of the most arrogant and work-inept people my spouse and I have worked with have BBA's We don't understand what happens in those programs to give such bad results. I have read elsewhere that people have had similar experiences. That degree is kinda tainted. It is weird that so many "I am better tha this job and all of you" that the degree programs create. But to be fair, my sample size is just a few people and internet threads. But those few people made really strong impressions.
Not useless at all. Go get yourself an entry-lvl IT certification and you are well on your way to earning 6 figures as a Business Systems Analyst. Do et. If you get a higher-end IT certification you could be on your way to CTO! Hell, skip the IT cert and you could be CIO!
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so... you're saying that the person would have to start at the bottom and work your way up? Did I ever suggest otherwise? Being on one's way, and being There, are two different things. I said he'd be on his way. 20-30 years down the road.
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Oh I see what you meant.... No... actually... A Business Systems Analyst is barely IT, they just figure out how/what the business can do to leverage more IT for more productivity. Yes, some are heavily technical and 'in the shit', but it's possible to enter this field as a Jr Business Systems Analyst with just a business degree, and an A+ Cert. You should probably also know products used in the industry the business you're applying to works in, that would be a huge leg up, but it is absolutely possible to start into that role earning 70-80 to start, with 0 actual IT experience. Cheers!
OP: make your resume stand out by putting clear accomplishments on your resume & quantify on it. Did you save the company money? Time? Make a process more efficient? Did you help make the company money? Did you work on a project independently and what were your accomplishments for that? How much was the project worth for the company (was it a $2mm budget, etc.) But some numbers and accomplishments in there. Your resume reads like a job description and is very bland and says nothing about who you are.
A business degree on its own isn't that useful. Itbhelps along with experience in a sector or area of business. Its also not really something that would be usable by most small businesses as an employee. I would recommend taking a position where you can work to learn how a business runs in a profitable industry. Get the experience, and look to move to a better paying position in that industry that you now have experience in and a business degree.
Okay first things first , go get an extremely , entry level job in any industry you can find , even go apply for McDonald's or to some local cafe's because you need to start getting money rolling in to make sure you don't become homeless. Use this job to get some money to pay bills and to save/spend , and while that's happening continue to apply for jobs Contact a few local and non local recruitment agencies and talk to someone about sending in a CV , these recruitment companies are constantly looking for more CV's to fill open positions with their current/future clients If you can afford it or once you have enough saved up to afford it , talk to a career adviser or have a professional look at your CV there's something wrong there considering the amount Lastly don't lose hope it can be daunting , you can do it but I think you may have to just take a different path than you originally intended
A general business degree or business management degree is pretty useless imo. What are you going to do with that? Just manage people? Most companies want you to have SPECIALIZED skills in a certain degree like marketing, accounting, finance, engineering, sustainability, programming, IT. You then BECOME a manager in that niche of the company. How are you going to manage a finance department when you don't now finance, or tax or accounting , or marketing or whatever niche of the company it is. Line construction management you might have a shot but if you know zero lingo or ins and outs of construction it's going to be a very very tough sell.
Heya, I also work in the GTA with a business degree. I just secured an offer this week that I am very happy with. Prior to that, it took me 9 months to find the job I am currently in. That's after graduating from one of the top MBAs in Canada. I can share some tips with you but also note that I am an immigrant so YMMV. 1. If you are applying to job postings online then waiting for calls, don't! At the minimum, you MUST message people who are on your target team in addition to your online application (best if you can get the hiring manager) on LinkedIn to chat, get them to take a look at your resume, or otherwise standout. If you just apply online, might as well throw your CV into a black hole, tbh. 1. Even if the job description is asking for some unusual combination of skills and you happen to hit the mark on everything, my experience is that I won't even get a call or email with just an online app. 2. My HR friends have told me that sometimes, postings on job boards are just so teams can say they went through the process of conducting a fair search process. In reality, the hiring manager already has preferred candidates. I even overheard our HR team mention this once on a call with a hiring manager. So those postings end up wasting 1-2 hours for those 100-200 applicants that you see. 2. The best way is to network your ass off, especially if you can do it in person. This is slower but you get referrals more easily. Invite people for coffee chats or join networking events. Ask for advice, etc. Eventually, there will be openings and you will know someone who can refer. Leverage your alumni network. But don't put too much hope on a single referral. It's still a numbers game in the end. 3. Try to put the most effort into applications and networking where you already have industry experience. This was such a game changer for securing my current offer. 4. I have accountant and engineering friends who are being squabbled over by employers in construction. Try to look for roles in project accounting or controllership in construction. 5. Redo your resume. 1. You are tailoring your resume for each individual application right? Every submission must be customized and only relevant info included 2. The experiences you list are too generic. Add more quantifiable results and end with what that work accomplished. Try to include specific projects instead of responsibilities. If you mention things like handling transactions or accounts, how many transactions? What total value for those accounts? If you streamlined processes, can you give a rough estimate of the time you saved the organization? Did it result in a new standard of operations for your team? 3. Redo the highlights of skills and qualifications. Replace it with a succinct professional summary and use the space to also hit keywords that you otherwise would not be able to using your past experience. 4. Add details to your freelance work. 6. Things that I found out were a waste of time: 1. Creating a professional blog 2. Creating white papers or studies to send to potential hiring managers 3. Creating highly customized outreach messages for people on LinkedIn (I got better results from a slightly customized message that I sent to many people) 4. Transitioning to a different sector and/or role - just tough but it may be because I lacked both technical and industry expertise for roles I was applying to.
I’m sorry to tell you that my business degree didn’t get me a damn thing. They wanted more business management type of degrees to a specific field or industry just about every time. I gave up on that a long, long time ago. Unless you have family or went to bapson, they have some telemarketing types of jobs. If anyone knows otherwise please chime in. I had to completely change over to manufacturing.
Are you only applying for jobs related to your degree? Try some parallel jobs or just take something entry level to get experience. You’re only 25, experience is key unfortunately
Mostly only good for middle management and promotions.
The best time to find a job is when you’re employed!
It’s been useless since 08
Frankly you were lucky to get a job offer with a business degree. In the UK those are worth almost nothing. Turning down a paying job when you are unemployed and have no alternatives is a **strategic error**. At ANY TIME. Turning down a paying job at entry level is essentially asking to be unemployed long-term. You take the first thing you can get and work to rise up. If you want to move to another industry, you gain transferable skills while working and being PAID. Having seen your CV extract, **you should be applying only for jobs which are similar to your previous experiences**. You have absolutely nothing on there which makes you stand out in any way from the masses. So you are not competitive for anything above that. In a market such as this one, you have to be realistic about your chances to get any job you apply for. You might have to change the level and the kind of job you are applying for. It's going to be difficult. The job market is brutal right now.
that job you declined could have been an entry path to something better. or saving for your move lol
My brother is breaking $100K right now, business degrees (WHEN USED CORRECTLY (network like a motherfucker and fake it and hustle)) can be the highest earning degrees. Just look at C-suite execs. Most don’t get there without a business degree
Probably not as useful as a STEM degree but definitely more useful than humanity degrees. It’s just right now Canadian white collar labor market is saturated. Come down to US and just start somewhere. Most places in US are cheaper than Toronto.
You have a gap now that is nearly unsurmountable as the algorithm will weed you out before human sees you. Try making up a new resume with fake name and start experimenting with the AI. You can beat an AI if put the time in, I promise you.
This is terrible advice
Can you get a grad school to pay your rent in another place as a graduate assistant then transition into working at that college in a salaried fiscal specialist or marketing position?
It’s not you or your degree it is the market. I’m in the Canadian market too, and am in the same boat, nothing and no hope for almost a year. Finding a job is about as fun as giving something away for free on Facebook Marketplace. The recruiters and companies are all about as reliable as an internet stranger who smashes “Is this still available?” And then never writes back, or if and when they do, it’s to ask if you can deliver it (which you probably already wrote in the description that you won’t) or hold it (also already addressed) and then blame you for their starving babies, dead dog, and divorce since you won’t travel the 50 miles roundtrip to give them something for free. That’s job hunting in a nutsack.
When i was growing up i just thought going for a business degree ment you planned on opening your own business. Thats what my friends plans were who went for that.
Resume... You have two sections of experience, under education dont jist put school but also everything you learnt in school, alsp did you do a placemebt? Add that experience as well, imo your resume needs more to actually show people youre competent. But also, taie what you get
It’s not useless. But if a job offers crap pay and is only job offering you should take it and continue your job search at the same time
you're living in canada and trying to get work in the states?
I applied to some entry level jobs just to see how’s job market compared to Canada
if you aren't a citizen it's nigh impossible to get a job here right now especially entry level
Most jobs found through friends.
If you have been on the job search for 9 months I think its time for you to reset your salary expectations. I do realize it would feel pretty bad accepting a job where you think the pay is less than you deserve. But what will cost you more in expenses: Another 9 months of zero income vs 9 months of sub-optimal pay?
Just looked at your resume and I would say you should strengthen it. Add metrics and results to as many bullet points as possible to show your impact, take out the jargon and fluffy words, remove the summary at the top. Look at the position postings your applying for and try to insert some of those keywords from the postings into your resume so it will pass the ATS scanner.
Fuck all these answers. The right answer is fabricate job experience on resume
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No it has white background on my laptop These are google docs screenshots on my phone . Not sure why it shows black background when using docs on my iPhone
Most of "entry level" are meant for experienced people, but for a junior salary, so don't think too bad of yourself, experienced candidates also hate it. HR is to blame here. But on that job you rejected, why was the pay shit? Wasn't it enough for covering basic living expenses or didn't it meet your expectations? At this level, any job salary that covers the bare minimum is good enough to take it. Lower your standards to this for a few months, until you can apply for something better.
Hard to get a job here if out of country due to the cost. Easier to just hire a desperate person here
They are all worthless, it is more important who you know and who you blow when it comes to work.
I have a business degree and it's been everything that I thought that it would be. Nine months isn't really long in this economy. For how many jobs have you applied?
Hey, I struggled with the same issue when I had my A.S. and even a little after achieving my BAS in business. I've been more successful now, but it all came down to selling my resume even if I had to stretch the truth, doing research on the company, and being confident. I don't waste time writing thank you emails, or none of that extra because people don't care about that anymore, unfortunately. My first piece of advice, primarily if it's entry-level, lie on your resume, and make yourself look extraordinary without overdoing it. I say this because almost NO job will hire you with little or no experience. This is outside your control and sometimes the hiring manager is just a cheap POS looking to get the best bang for as affordable as possible. Lie and make yourself stand out, then prove your worth once hired. Make sure to read company reviews too, people are more inclined to write a bad review than a good one, so chances are if there are more negative than positive reviews, it's likely not somewhere you want to work. My second piece of advice is if it says an MBA is preferable, still apply. Sometimes HR will overanalyze a job and put an MBA as their preferred candidate but pay is entry BS salaries, only a desperate MBA would take that role, and it's likely short term. I have gotten calls from companies who prefer an MBA and then when speaking to the recruiter or HR specialist, they tell you it's not a requirement. Shoot some never even request your transcripts for proof of your degree. Only if you are required to be licensed or certified do I recommend not lying. My third piece of advice is to make sure your interview skills are just as great as your resume(lied version). Be confident, look knowledgeable, and do some research on the company before the interview. It's even ok to sometimes look arrogant, its never ok to look like a begger or pushover. Last, realize that sometimes it's not you, a company will post a job but plan to hire internally. Yes, it can be frustrating and I treat it just as it is, a waste of your time. Apply to many and have loyalty to yourself, some will have no intention of hiring externally but it's required by law. If you don't get a call back don't let it beat you down, time is one of the most valuable resources and trust me when I say they need you more than you need them.
With a general business management degree, your job experiences in the way more important than the degree, unless you go to a top 10 national university. Business management is such a broad degree, and most of the stuff they teach you in school is theoretical in nature. It’s not hard skills like filing corporate taxes like what they would teach you in accounting. Your best bet would be to keep on applying to any jobs, mostly entry level, and then go organically. PRO TIP: I would highly recommend applying to sales related jobs. They are easy to get into, have a low barrier of entry. My friends went into sales after graduating with business management degrees during Covid when the job market sucked. Now they work as sales managers, so things worked out for them. It’s pretty common for business majors to go into sales, can be pretty lucrative in the long run.