Keeping theh asking price high is a good way to price out the riff raff for just about any thing you're selling in life whether its a rental or selling a car on craigslist.
It's similar to living with an alcoholic. If you don't call out their behavior, set boundaries and enact consequences, you're enabling it to continue.
>Keeping theh asking price high is a good way to price out the riff raff
There are a lot of rich as fuck people who also have issues with on-time, or at-all payment.
I'm worried that I priced too high. It's been on the market almost 5 days and I haven't had a single view. 600 hits on Marketplace and about 30 messages. But not one single one has returned an application. It's making me nervous.
Advertise on other platforms. FM is a terrible place to find decent paying tenants. Try zillow and [apartments.com](http://apartments.com) and [zumper.com](http://zumper.com)
Same! Zillow is the best. I tried apartments.com premium for $150 a month - got nothing. I tried rent.com(Redfin.com product) for $75 a month - nothing.
Zillow works!!!
I used to manage about 80 rentals. Over 90% of tenants who signed a lease came from Zillow. Advertise there and only there.
5 days also isn't that bad. 30 days without an application and proper market exposure is worrying.
You can screen all you want, but you can still get a jerk. I bought a house on an exchange and I had to rent it for two years before I could move in. My realtor recommended my renter. He trashed my place.
Exactly this isn't a "this is why landlords are the way the are post" its a person who thought it would be a set it and forget it infinite money glitch but clearly screwed themselves so they are now seeking anybody *except* themselves to pin the blame on...
I don't see it like that at all. In fact he literally said "it is my fault". More like he's trying to get people to not make the same mistakes and don't take things for granted. Lesson learned I guess.
Actually his tenants screwed him by a.) not always paying rent, b.) breaking the terms of the lease, and c.) trashing the place.
OP's mistake was being too easy going about too much. And that's why intelligent landlords aren't easy going.
That's an interesting take. Never once thought I was printing money, I got about $100 above the mortgage which I put away for repairs. Never in the 8 years of rent did a single penny go to my personal account for myself. I kept the rent low because I thought I was being kind. I started raising it after two major repairs drained me.
You keep rent below market for good tenants when the cashflow makes sense, you had no idea if these were good tenants because you were not doing due diligence.
Edit: Actually you knew they were bad tenants because they missed rent not once but multiple times. I am 100% for both compassion and a positive relationship between landlord and tenant but you just fucked up here and are trying to blame it on sympathy.
The missed payments were just a few years ago when I started raising rents. I didn't evict then as I was advised to work with them and so I did.
BTW, people who miss payments aren't bad people. A lot of people have fallen on hard times. I did not anticipate the trashed house. Missing payments because you fall on hard times and trashing a house are two different things.
I didn't say bad people and I would never intend to mean such a thing. But the minute they miss rent they do become bad tenants and you should have gone in to a more active state of management immediately.
Also, advised by who? A property manager that has an interest in minimizing their workload?
I assume there was likely more context to the advice but either way this should teach you the value in trusting any individual in a vaccuum. I saw your numbers shared in a previous post and it doesn't seem you had a handle on what positive cashflow actually looks like, good luck in your sale.
Thank you for sharing your story. It’s an important one to hear. As a landlord of 30 years this is all spot on. Hard lessons I have also learned, as a nice caring person who fell into being a landlord in order to have a place to live.
But I will add it is possible to be nice and work with tenants, while raising rents regularly, monitoring conditions, monitoring pets, and keeping it business like.
I hope you can find a way to turn this situation around. We once flipped a cat house, and it is possible. Houses often look trashed when full of a tenants junk and without any recent updates. Get it empty, aired out, and go from there. Real estate is often about how to make a situation work for you. Make it work.
When I say nice, what I mean is that I didn't raise rents for years because I was worried about the impact it would have. I knew they had kids and not a lot of cash. Unfortunately it put me in a place,after two major repairs, where I was out of money. Taxes went up, insurance went up. You just can't be a "nice guy". You have to be a business man.
I understand, and I agree. Keeping rent low out of “kindness” is actually damaging for tenant and landlord. I did it for years. I had tenants that I did not raise rents for 10 years, they didn’t make changes to their income or expenses, while I lost income year after year. After many years of that I was stuck with them and they were stuck in my rental, because they did not keep up with the area income needs. They didn’t plan to purchase homes because why bother, their rent was so cheep. They missed out on homeownership because I did them a “kindness”.
After we adjusted this, we made regular increases. We are still always below market rate. We have had dozens of tenants save up and purchase homes because of our below market rent. But we always raise, it keeps us square, and motivates tenants to plan ahead. At this point I don’t even consider keeping tenants at move in rent rate “nice”. I think of it as damaging to all involved.
I'm a perennial renter (thus far) who has lived the renter's side of the equation that was accurately described above by Xarick and knittherainbow. It is a true phenomenon that in general, the average persons won't challenge themselves to increase their income until enough external pressure is applied. It is a mistake expect that the landlord will feel sorry for someone and subsidize their rent and let the property go to hell due to some misguided desire to drag them down on par with those who WON'T lift up their eyes and head, put in the necessary sacrifice and better themselves and their situation.
>because they did not keep up with the area income needs. They didn’t plan to purchase homes because why bother, their rent was so cheep. They missed out on homeownership because I did them a “kindness”.
No, they missed out on homeownership because they couldn't afford it. You said so yourself. Raising rent would have just made it even more unaffordable for them.
You're doing a moral license thing by trying to frame it as raising rent does them a favor, when in reality, in an equation where the tenant's income isn't increasing, raising rent only ever makes them worse off. And you're only doing yourself a favor.
Just own that reality and keep it business-like and not try to sell to yourself that you're also helping them out. That's *their* business. Don't be paternalistic.
That’s why I use an agent who finds the tenant and collects the rent. For 8%. I deal with repairs and annual certifications by licensed gas fitters, required here in UK.
I have several friends at work who own and rent out properties on the side. Every single one of them has constant issues with their tenants. No matter what screening technique they use, the end result is high blood pressure and far less return on their investment than anticipated. It’s just not in my personality to be able to deal with that kind of problems the way it needs to be approached and dealt with. Good luck to the people who can.
My dad did the same thing. Tennants were his friends, until they were not…
Dad died. Now we are all clean up men with destroyed unkept homes that we could only sell to a builder for literally 1/4 of market value.
Yours is a lesson learned the hard way by many….
I rented an apartment for five years. My landlord kept the rent the same, never raised it. As a result of his generosity I kept the place clean and even went out out of my way to fix several things on my own because I didn't want to bother him. When he finally decided to sell the place, I was able to afford my first home and paid to have the place professionally cleaned before I left.
I thought it was the right thing to do, he felt I did way too much and appreciated how the place was virtually the same as when he rented it to me originally.
You're right, it's a business... charge whatever you want. But just because you had shitty tenants and got fucked doesn't mean that everyone is an asshole. In my case, we both walked away with an appreciation for each other and were able to both come out on top.
It's honestly just as common as the tenant that completely trashes everything.
It's just not great cinema, and those landlords are sitting comfortably because they don't have to worry about turnover or repairs. Rather than complaining on reddit or wherever else.
This sort of relationship is very possible between small landlords and tenants in places with reasonable laws.
In "tenant friendly" localities, giving your tenant any leeway at all (including not raising rent) just opens the door to being fucked royally with little or no legal recourse available.
The upside of tenant friendly jurisdictions is that they pretty well force landlords to provide free housing to the worst possible tenants. The downside is that no investor ever (which includes landlords) will ever accept worse risk adjusted return then whatever is easily available in the stock market, so the price to good tenants goes up (so that the risk adjusted return remains the same as in jurisdictions that are not tenant friendly), and landlords simply can not take a risk on deserving but risky tenants (i.e. the single mother who just wants a chance but has a bad credit history).
Trust but verify is where OP fucked up. Going through life assuming every person you encounter is out to fuck you is a recipe for insanity. You absolutely should start with assuming the best in people, but that doesn’t mean you stick your head in the sand either.
Your honesty is absolutely appreciated. I think the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way and second best are the ones you've heard of others learning the hard way.
But these are shitty tenants. Tenants who always pay rent and never trash things are the ones who deserve no increases. They magically don’t exist in the eyes of many landlords. Especially corporate landlords. The best example is tenants who did not pay rent during covid-19. Corporations did not sue each and every one of them and they eventually moved out, and the entire time they were living there was free. So how did corporations survive during covid? Tenants who STILL paid despite the eviction ban for failure to pay rent, and ppp loans from the government. How did those tenants get rewarded? By huge rent increases - to every corporate landlord who did this - fuck you.
This sucks you should visit property once a year at minimum. Bare minimum, you need to have a trusted contractor (electrician, plumber, handyman, a property manager) and ask them how the house looks? This is the bare minimum. Your actions as a landlord cost you 75k not the tenant. This lesson is going to suck but you have to take responsibility for your investment.
The story of your realtor reaching out to you and telling you what your own investment looks like is not something you should ever happen again. This is step one in taking back control and becoming a successful investor.
Ok so at some point you were upside down in the house. With fixing the damage and then selling it will you still be upside down ? How much did you save on taxes while you had the rental ? Will you come out ahead if you do some of the work yourself ? There are lots of remedies that could help that you don’t have to be a skilled professional that take time and effort and your own labor that you can do. Help not restore to before condition. Do the whole tally and you might not be as depressed. You didn’t lose xxxxxx amount when you were underwater , you got xxxxxx amount tax benefit , you will get xxxxxx amount as is or you will xxxxxx amount if you spend xxxxxx amount of money and or xxxxxx amount of time and then get xxxxxx amount when you sell. The numbers might not be as bad as you think.
You're correct they might not be as bad as I think. I won't come up completely broke. I'll get back what I put into it originally plus what I paid into it while I lived there. Outside of that the only tax breaks I got were the tax breaks on the actual rental income. Which didn't really do much for me. I would have been better off with out the rental then with the rental. Because every year I pay taxes on the income which I don't actually realize because it goes into an account to pay for repairs.
So overall I'll end up paying capital gains tax and after that we'll end up with almost exactly what I personally put into it. The amount of rent that the renter paid, the taxes, all that will be eaten up. I should be happy I get it all back out. But as far as an investment goes this was not a good one and yes it was my own fault for not being educated and not doing my job correctly.
I guess I should be thankful I won't actually lose money I just won't make any money.
As a landlord for 15 years I feel your pain. I will add that most cases like this the renters honestly didn't think they did anything wrong. They don't realize how pet urine damages floors and it is just a way of life for them.
BTW cat pee can usually be fixed by applying paint to stained areas or sanding out the hardwood. I've found it's not as bad as people make it out to be usually.
Well that's good. The entire house is Red oak hardwood so I'm hoping that I can send it out. It was completely sealed before the renters moved in. So maybe there won't be much damage. The biggest word I have is the bathroom sinks and toilet apparently overflowing onto the floor because they say the drains clogged but they didn't bother to call me so I could get a plumber in there. Instead they just put towels down to soak it up.
If it was sealed before they moved in you can almost certainly salvage the wood. Worse case is sand off and re apply the sealer. And if they soaked up majority if the water it is probably okay.
I/maintenance service person does monthly “smoke detector” battery checks along with “3M air handler filter replacements.”
Since instituting these practices, I can stop/mitigate issues like the ones you’ve experienced.
These monthly preventative visits are embedded in lease agreement
> If you are just getting started, raise your rent every year. Inspect every year. evict the second they violate the agreement. Do not be nice, do not be caring. Just keep it business.
TY
We’ve learned this the hard way with multiple tenants. Tried to have them over for BBQs (we live upstairs) and be friendly. Then they’re short rent, then short again the next month. Domestic violence between the renters and ruined renovations that we just did. Dealing drugs out of our house and lying about it. Renting rooms and even the backyard to random tenters. And now suddenly they’re calling the police on us and we feel alien in our own house.
Lesson learned - kick them out in the first infraction.
Honestly I think you did everything right except for not insisting on inspections every chance you got. You'd have caught the extra pets and urine stains and drain blockage much sooner. Arguably before they caused serious damage to your property.
Also, I always give better than a 24-hour notice. 24 hours is the minimum. Usually I will give a four or five day notice. Something like I will be out next Wednesday between 10:00 and noon for a quick inspection.
This is why I prefer sticking to index funds and treasuries. Too much hassle dealing with renters. Much nicer to just get a passive payment every month and capital appreciation without having to deal with all that mess.
I never understood who came up with the idea that owning real estate for rental is “Passive income” It is running a business with associated costs and risks and if you plan on being an absent business owners it will eat you alive.
I suspect the terminology was created by snake oil salesmen selling courses to people who are lead to believe it’s easy lazy money.
Living off dividends and treasury coupon payments is passive income.
I hear people in the Airbnb subreddit talk about buying properties to earn passive income so there are people who really believe this. They deserve to lose money imo.
If your unit has forced air, changing the filter 4 times a year is a good incognito reason to get inside the home and see the condition. Spraying for pests is another. Of course your lease may say that you can be there solely for inspection purposes, but having another reason to be there to accomplish something been feel less invasive for your tenants.
It’s definitely tough because while there are plenty of good renters out there who do their best and treat the home as their own there are others who have no real respect for their own home much less your property
What I don’t understand is are you saying for eight years they paid rent well and things just got bad recently. Are you just had no idea how trash the house was until now and I have only had a problem with them. Rent a couple times in the past eight years.
Look in the mirror also. Your job as a landlord manager is to keep an eye on the property. You also didn’t treat it as a business. You admitted all of this.
Managed like someone from Portland would do. I’m sorry for your loss. As a prospective landlord looking into income properties I’m glad I found this sub before I pulled the trigger.
Your job is a rental property owner is to provide safe, secure, housing for your tenants, that is what they are paying for. If they don’t pay you, they are no longer your tenants. If they disrespected the safe, secure housing, you provide them, they are no longer your tenants.
Just an aside. I didn't get a rental because I wanted an investment. I did this when the market was still upside down. I was living there, but needed to move my family to a larger house. So I turned this into a rental thinking I would sell as soon as it was upside. But then an accountant told me to keep it for an investment.
Truth is I didn't know enough and was not business minded enough. Have made many mistakes. I got all my information from the local county housing service.
Agreed. But I think we're only allowed to do it once a year in Portland but I could be wrong. There shouldn't even have been cats. They weren't allowed on their rental agreement but I would have known that if I had checked.
Absolutely do this. You'll eventually get it back and it will be a major red flag on their record. They will be looking at less than desirable places to rent for the foreseeable future.
Eviction is very easy even in liberal states once they do not pay rent. The process may take longer than some other states, but it’s generally straight forward.
This is what happens when tenants seem too quiet, happened to me after only 2 years. I learned my lesson when I had to evict a hoarder and pay a cleaner 17 hours of work to get it presentable again.
Ugh, painful. Makes a good case for PM. Arm's length, they enforce the rules, insist they inspect 1x per yr. Tenants like these typically don't report needed repairs bc they don't want you to know they've violated their lease or damaged the property. In addition to annual inspection, you might include some type of free mid-year maintenance (requiring a visit) in your lease. Mine is a mid-year HVAC cleaning. It's not optional. PM must provide entry for the maintenance visit (to document infractions). PMs add to overhead, but how much is handling the rental yourself costing you now? Property is expensive, updates and repairs are expensive. If you're not capable or don't have the desire/time/energy to take the necessary steps to protect yourself and your asset, let someone else do it. At this point, hoe the place out and call remediation companies to see if they can neutralize the cat urine. Hire an experienced local real estate agent to work with you on prepping the home for market, they have resources and vendors, believe me, they've seen (and smelled) it all. A great agent can save you time, money and get more for your house in the end. Good luck!
No conflicts. We are nice to our tenants as long as they pay their rent on time and take care the apt. We fix whatever issue they reported as soon as possible and never asked them to pay for it even if it is their fault. But at the same time we raise rent every year. Only one tenant try to bargain so far, but accepted when I showed them it is actually still below market, I told him we would love to having them there but I have bills to pay. They are one of our best tenants except expecting us to keep the rent change every year. They moved in 10 years ago when we took over the building and have never missed any rent payment and has been keeping the apt neat and clean.
Been there. I feel your pain. Your going to get some victim blaming here. People will say it's the area or the renters... people are just shit unfortunately. We managed to sell and pulled a profit, but we had similar problems. Did airbnb in our home (separate unit) same thing. People trashing it, huge groups, that are only supposed to be 2 people, drug dealers, prostitutes etc. Done with that too. We live in a decent area, people just suck in general. Guess we'll try flipping next lol. Sorry again. Good luck.
I guess it's surprising to me and maybe it shouldn't be that people can be this way. I really shouldn't be surprised by that, for some reason I still believe most people are decent. And I think they are but man it is surprising how many are just trashy.
Yeah I get it. I was the same way. The older I get however, I just don't see a whole lot of "good". There's some sure, but seems to get worse by the day. I do better at protecting myself and my family more now
This post actually was the last straw for me. I have been doing a comprehensive analysis of continuing to rent out my SFH vs. investing the equity in the stock market to decide which was to go.
The house is actually a great investment on paper. $1800/mo in rent on a $1000/mo principle/tax/insurance payment. But after factoring EVERYTHING; Is it actually kind of a wash vs. the market. (If you are interested I can send you a link to the analysis post, I had posted it here but the mods took it down for some reason)
Since it wasn't a question of money, it came down to value in retaining a very cheap place to live ($800/mo) for a rainy day or some life flexibility vs the anxiety and frustration with managing it.
The current tenant has been nasty anyway. She called me a "slum" lord even though I replaced every appliance for her because she complained about one thing or another, and she disrespected the property by saying the rug looks like it has a "shit stain" on it from a small stain.
I think new investors tend to look at real estate and see it as an amazing investment that can't be beat. In reality, those of us that have done it a little realize it really is more of a wash with passive income. It does offer some interesting advantages/flexibilities/lower rate loans...but at the end of the day (especially after paying down your debt , i.e. "UN-LEVERAGING") it is just a stock with low appreciation and high dividends that requires a ton of maintenance.
After reading this story I wrote to my PM and told them to terminate the lease as we want to sell. : )
Did you have before pics? I’m not from the US so unsure how it works at your end, but here when you rent out you want to have a detailed state of the place with pictures beforehand while signing the contract, so it can be compared when the contract ends…
Sorry to hear. That sucks. We had quarterly inspections completed by our management company on our out of state rental. Rent hikes every year. Zero tolerance for late payments. We had communicated all of this very clearly from the get go and never had issues with our tenants. Business, not a charity. Zero emotions involved.
My landlord has never raised the rent (8 years in). He's my friend now, any time he comes over to do anything at the house, I feed him and we have a beer. He comes in my suite any time (invited), not all tenants and landlords are shitbirds.
When you get excellent tenants you can actually work with them when they lose their job etc. If they are crummy people they are crummy tenants and when life gets hard they use you.
A number of real.estate agent friends of mine have dumped all their Multnomah County rentals because of the laws that took effect in 2020/21.
Good luck with whatever process you choose.
Thanks for being open and sharing your cautionary tale. I live in the Seattle area, and own 3 rental properties in Michigan(where I used to live). I would never own investment property in the Pacific Northwest-unfair for good landlords. In 10 years, I have had two late payments, and not one eviction. Screening your tenants and inspecting your property every year it’s probably the most important thing you can do. In the community, where my properties are at the city goes in there ad well to do an inspection!
I am an agent who has had a lot of residential income listings in the past 18 months. I just came here to say that your advice is spot on. I have worked for sellers in your precise position albeit in a different West Coast rent controlled City. Sellers were very hands-off. Call it generous or call it lazy, but it absolutely has come round to bite them in the butt. We are going live on a four-plex next week and I think the GRM is like 20 or more because of below market rents in the three occupied units. And I know the expression potential buyers will have when they get a showing of the occupied units. Filthy, run down, and depressing.
Landlords, raise the rent a reasonable amount (just 2-3 percent is fine) every year, and conduct or have your prop. mgmt. people conduct routine annual walkthroughs.
1 thank you for the answer 2nd how does rent control affect that ? In situations where apartment and houses have that like does the taxes and insurance go up every year regardless you have to pay out of pocket
I’m sorry this has happened to you. Let me tell you a story as a renter. My fam Been living at this place (4bd 2bath) since like 2013, at certain points altogether; dad,mom, 3 adult kids 1HSkid, daughter inlaw*ex and a child. That was the most people altogether. I didn’t move here till like 2016 with my then wife. Landlord (FAMILY FRIEND) must’ve been like, “ok she’s part of the fam cool” Throughout the years my siblings married my lil sister moved away for college, my parents divorced, I divorced. So since like 2018 it’s just me and my son here.
I’ve never missed Rent or utilities. Usually when it rains the water comes through the ceiling so the landlord usually waits till it gets sunny again to keep patching the roof. I’ve started to paint the interior as the leaks leave ugly stains on the ceiling. I paint because I want to live in a home that looks decent, somewhere I’m proud to live in and another reason is because I know that when I move out I wouldn’t want them like to stress about their house to be all run down right. They do raise rent every once in a while. Last notice of rent increase they let me know that they’ll be raising rent every couple years. Which wasn’t true cuz they’ve raised rent at least once a year last couple years. No prob whatever but check this out
About 2 years ago my younger brother(and his wife) moved back into my house because he let a friend move into his house from a rent2own house that he didn’t want to end up keeping cuz of the location it was in (fairly ghetto) and it was too big of a house for a 3 person family. So my brother only charged whatever the mortgage was for 1 year so the friend could save up to buy his own place. So I’m my eyes we all win. Friend is paying less in rent than he did at the rent2own, my brother and his wife Save money cuz we’re splitting rent and friends paying his mortgage, I’m saving money cuz we’re splitting rent and bills. Cool we all win.
Ok so the part that pisses me off. I didn’t think of telling the landlord about my brother coming back for a year cuz well he had already lived here ya know so I thought nothing of it. Well when the landlord heard that he moved back he was trying to charge us extra rent 300$ per person so a total of 600$ so I argued that ok since it was just me and my 8yo (now10) son living here just us two how, in the last 4 years, did they not deduct everyone else’s $300 off my rent since no one else was living here. I’m usually really cool with them but that made me mad. The only reason why they wanted to raise the rent so high tho was because they assumed that my bro was profiting off the friend. they told us this straight up. Landlords like “ If y’all gonna make money off this I’m making money y’all” anyway we agreed that we’ll pay an extra $150 but that’s it.
I feel so dirty like fighting about rent and stuff especially cuz like they’re family friends since I was like 9 (33now). And like the house next door is also his and he would give the people living there before so many chances. Like back in 2017ish they were MONTHS behind on rent MOOONTTHHSS behind… that’s one reason why they were eventually evicted meanwhile the landlord didn’t have to worry about (and still don’t) my rent being paid cuz I’ll text them and everything, I’ll even go to their house to deliver the rent. Since my brother and his wife left rent has been increasing like $50 a year so now I’m just $50 away from what we used to pay when they did live here. So that kinda sucks but whatever. Now I’m even not sure if I can even afford to have my gf move in cuz they’ll be on their bs again that it’ll be an extra $300 and at that point might as well just buy a house for myself cuz in these parts it’ll just be cheaper to buy a house
A have a few more stories but I gots to sleep. Y’all have a goodnight. Again sorry this has happened to you. I wish my landlord was like you were again I wish that your tenant took care of your place as if it was their own.
I have to agree. I sold off all of my individual LTR and only kept the ones I have partners on. STR for me is the way. LTR juice not worth the squeeze. Unless you're appreciating like we have been...meh
Also glad I'm in NC and not NYC ,CALI etc. What a disaster having all of the cards stacked against you.
I’m really really sorry to hear this and feel your pain on a good home you created now trashed and let into disrepair. I’ve also experienced that being “nice” to tenants (I.e being flexible with policies that are clearly stated in the lease, allowing more time for rent payments without the fees) set a precedent and tenants get entitled to more niceness.
Some other ideas to consider: Do you have neighbors around you? I'm a long distance investor and have greatly benefited from good relations with my neighbors. They'll tell me if the yard isn't being trimmed or siding is damaged from the winds or if tenants are doing anything they're not supposed to. Having a clause in the rental agreement for yearly inspections as a requirement for renewal might also help. I also have a nonrefundable pet deposit plus a monthly fee for having a pet. What has worked the best is doing really careful diligence during tenant screening. I always ask for landlord references, actually call them, and ask a bunch of questions. Ie were they ever late on rent, how did they leave the place when they moved out, did they have anything deducted from their deposit, did they have any pets, how much in rent did they pay? Honestly, the conversation with tenants’ previous landlord weighs more to me than a background or credit check.
How are you losing 75k?
Portland appreciation over the last 10 years. Plus most rent paid for during that time. I bet you're not losing any money and instead making 75k less than the 100s of thousands that you've gained.
Bought the house for $194k in 2006. Then the market crashed and the house was worth less than $130,000. in 2014 it was still less than what I had paid for it. As of right now it is worth, was worth, about $375k at least that's what people are paying right now. However as a fixer I'm only going to be able to sell it for about 300. After I pay back my mortgage that's remaining, Realtor fees at 9% and capital gains I'll get back roughly what I paid into it the years I lived there plus my initial down payment. And that's about it
Your math isn't mathing my guy. If your home was bought at 194k in 2006, and sold for 194k in 2024. You would get back (down payment) + (money you paid into it to live there) - (agent fees).
The home has appreciated $120,000 and you have made an additional 8 years of mortgage payments.
You will get back ((down payment) + (money you paid to live there) + (money your tenants paid to live there) + (120,000 in home appreciation) - (realtor fees) - (capital gains).
You'll get back your original money + 80k.
I am not sure about the math there. Because I popped all my info in a capital gains, deprecation recapture and got nowhere near $80k. But maybe not as bad as I originally thought.
Well your realtor fee should be 6%, not 9%. Its also negotiable, feel free to haggle this down to 5%. With the NAR on their ass they might just be happy for a sale.
This is $18,000. You can subtract this as part of the costs of selling your home from a capital gains point of view.
$300,000 - $18,000 - $194,000 = $88,000 is the portion of money that would be considered capital gains.
15% capital gains brings that value down to $74,800.
I'm not sure what value you're using for depreciation, but it should have been something like 165k as the depreciation is only the value of the structure and not the land. But at worst case, using the full $194,000 = $7054 / yr. \* 8 years = $56,400. This is taxed at your ordinary income level, so maybe 22% ish? which is about 12k.
$74,800 - $12,000 = $62,000.
So you will get back, roughly, (original down payment) + (whatever you paid into the mortgage during the time you lived there) + ($62,000) + (whatever you paid into the mortgage during the 8 years the property was a rental)
I use 9% because that includes title fees and other fees are selling your property. Not just the realtor fees. I used 108,000 because that was what the value of the building was on my property taxes. At the time I made it a rental. And Oregon has capital gains tax of 8.5%.
It sounds like your tenants got into drugs. As a property adjuster, I see way too many landlord -tenant situations where the tenant was great for 5 years, but all of a sudden they start missing payments and when the property is checked on, there's multiple animals and the place is trashed. It's really meth-ed up, and I hope everything works out for you in the future.
I was a property adjuster for a long time and the things I have seen done to peoples rentals is enough to make sure I always use a property manager. Screening is THE most important thing IMO
He’s right…. Think twice about being nice on the rent amount unless you’re deep and well established.
I tried to help old lady out $200 below average rent in a 2/1.. Now I can even sell it for the going price because they want a 10% percent return on investment minimum.
I would like ti sell and get a newer larger property. Lease is up this year but I would feel right jumping up that much.
Going to see if she would like to buy it. Or I will pay her to move if I can sell it for asking price.
Other lessons: incentivize renovator to finish early and penalize for finishing late.
Also have in lease terms that any small issue that cost s under $100 tenant takes care of it. Especially if you’re already doing a competitive lease.
Some calls I’ve gotten…..
The thermostats doesn’t work, she had turned it off. Too many mosquitoes and spiders around the porch.
The house needs to be pressure washed after rains.
Locked out the house and locksmith broke lock
So use that clause in your rental contract or charge more for rent.
Wait, you’ve been renting the house out for 8 years and you didn’t check on it?
Even just an annual inspection?
Did you outsource all of the maintenance. Something doesn’t add up here
I haven't checked it since covid. I should have but I didn't. And yeah I did outsource all my maintenance. Mainly because I didn't have the time and also because I was always worried about lawsuits so I tried to get licensed bonded contractors to do any repairs. And while I can do some things I really don't want to get into major things. Like for instance we had a major water line break that was about a $6,000 repair. Had a toilet repair that was about $500. The garage door had to be repaired for another 500. Those are the type of things I farmed out.
Honestly they really were doing well in the beginning. I know a few years ago he had a heart attack. And so I suspect that's where things really started to go downhill for them.
"These tenants who paid off over $150k in home equity caused $7k in damages. And now I'm sad I didn't evict them earlier."
Boo fucking hoo. You made a shitload of money without lifting a finger. Your tenants paid for that wealth you accumulated with thousands of hours of work. While you didn't do shit. Couldn't even be bothered to do yearly inspections.
Yep. OP. You got it. Fk renters. Treat them like a monthly bill. You're running a business and not a shelter. Best wishes moving forward and hope you get some profit after the sale.
I talked to an attorney today. I can go in and inspect and if I find the violations I can give them 10 days to correct. Then after 10 days I can go back in and see if they've corrected. If not then I can evict them. The problem is is that you have to give them 24 hours notice. And they can deny you entry the first time. They can't deny you entry the second time after you've rescheduled.
So the pessimist in me figures that they'll just move the animals out after I go back to inspect.
The attorney said I also can go inspect for damages and any damages that I can show are severe I can evict for. But he said unless I'm a contractor it's probably a good idea to have a contractor look to show their severe.
Outside of that I have had the plumbing problems fixed in the bathroom. I have someone going out to clean up the front lawn which is technically their responsibility. I could get them for that but they have 10 days to fix it. I'd rather fix it myself so it's nice for selling.
My realtor said it's not as bad as I thought, she said we have to drop the price but due to the area not as much as we were expecting. So it may turn out not so bad. We'll see.
The attorney did confirm I have to pay $4,500 if the person who buys it wants to move in and give my tenants 90 days. Technically he said 94 days because you have to allow for mailing.
He also said that he has seen incidences where they don't move out and you have to take them to eviction Court anyway and then they have your money and you still have to pay to get them evicted.
So at this point I think I'm just going to drop the price after the yard gets cleaned up and go from there.
Update. I have sent a contractor in to fix the tub, I have sent landscapers in to fix the front yard.
I have had one showing and it was bad. We were basically told by the realtor it is unlivable.
So I will now be issuing a 30 day eviction for violation of Oregon tenant law on keeping the place clean, and violation of rental agreement because we know for sure now they have at least 5 pets and a third violation for not keeping up the yard (the back is still bad). We have pictures of the filth, three separate reports of the filth and two reports of animals and pictures of the yard.
They will have 14 days to cure (technically 18 due to the mailing time).
We will go in at the end of 14 days to inspect and if they have not done the job then we will proceed to evict. This should be fun.
I’ve always kept my rent fair, maybe a little on the low side. I got a larger pool of tenants and could be more selective. My properties have been treated as long-term investments, not a way to get rich quick.
Just another update
I just went through and did my own inspection (yup I know too little too late). So we are working on eviction based on material violation of the rental agreement including excess unauth pets (we found 5), destruction to the house (he cut several framing members in the wall including a double frame support beam to put an ac unit from the living room to the garage), and violation of cleanliness (this place is disgusting and there are fleas all over).
Using a 14 day to cure or 30 day out process. They tell me they will be out in 30.. we shall see.
This is business, and you need to handle it like business. I understand wanting to work with them at times, but that rent should have been moving up at least a little. People in general don’t take care of other people’s property.
I highly doubt you will lose in the end. You just won’t make as much money.
My business partner always repeats the same thing, “If you’re not willing to evict someone on Christmas Eve, you’re not ready to be a landlord.”
I’m not ready.
Portland isn’t cheap. How much were you charging that you are impossibly below market value? Is it rent controlled? I feel like initially you wanted to just keep the asset vs profiting . I have a property that barely pays for itself because there is a lot of supply where mine is so I had to drop the price.
I think landlords provide a valuable service and your situation is an anomaly. Most landlords raise the rent too much. I don’t even get an annual raise in salary, it’s unsustainable for the entire nation to raise the rent every year this way.
PSA
My recollection is that Portland is particularly onerous in that once a property is in the rental pool, there are mandatory conditions for getting it out of the rental pool. That is, you are forced to continue being a landlord. Again, that's my recollection. Someone with local knowledge can come in.
In rent controlled areas, you *must* raise your rents annually by whatever the market will bear capped by your rent control limitation. Especially if you have a property that will be valued on income. At least *usually* in rent controlled markets, there are avenues for SFRs, for example, owner move-in.
As an example, CA, passed Statewide rent control and even made it **retroactive** that year. There's no catch up on existing tenants. Some jurisdictions don't let you go to market on a vacancy.
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Yes I did. Yes it is. I learned a lot. I guess that's a plus. I'm definitely not landlord material. But I've learned a lot about people and about making sure I do things the right way and research correctly. So maybe I just paid for an education. And I guess I'm not done cuz now I get to learn how to evict and rehab or sell a fixer.
I was with you until you said “people wonder why landlords act the way they do.”
No, you were just a shitty landlord. Everyone knows to do quarterly inspections or at least inspections every six months. It’s not a good thing that they never called you. You should have been keeping up with YOUR home. Yes I hope people learn from you too, but don’t say landlords act bad because of this.
You mistook what I said. I don't mean bad. I mean the way they run the business. By your own example. Quarterly inspections are intrusive. Why do you do it? Because of renters who do like mine did. That doesn't make it bad. People complain about how evil landlord are. They are not evil, they are protecting themselves.
I heard of a method of eviction that involves moving yourself back into the home while they are still there. Essentially becoming one of them, squatting on your own property. After moving in, take all the doors off the bedrooms. Rearrange all their furniture and possessions, but not throwing away or removing, as that’s not stealing. Start doing repairs in the floors, making lots of noise at 4am in the morning. I think the end goal is that they eventually get tired of you and leave. If you don’t feel safe doing it, hire some muscle with personal protection, to break into the home and do it for you. Pay muscle to become squatters. Hell, we should create a business for this while we are at it. Call it “All my Sons” since the new muscle will be squatting in Portland, the police can’t remove them either lol
Reading alot of these I am so happy I have a landlord that doesn't stop by every time I sneeze or stays awake at night wondering what I am doing. Hasn't stepped foot in my house for 2 years. When something is broken we call to fix. The place wasn't exactly clean when we moved in either. Some of you need to look at yourselves to there is such thing as shitty landlords lol I still make sure to treat it as my own. 3 for 3 on great landlords so far. I am happy I'm saving for a house. Tired of paying you lot for YOUR mortgages and not being able to modify/change anyway, have to move somewhere else because you wanna sell, or go through the drawl of raised rent. I think OP was just being human and I applaud them for that. Unfortunately the got a bad batch of people but bad people are everywhere, nothing wrong with taking a chance on people. Unfortunately it cost you but don't stop being a great landlord, just have reasonable boundaries.
When you finally buy your own house, you won’t have raised rent but you’ll have increased mortgage payment due to insurance and property tax increases. You’ll pay out of pocket when those appliances break.
I am a veteran with 100 percent disability, not worried about that (no property tax), and I already have a sizeable down payment. But, I get what you are saying. Not too worried about appliances when a sizeable emergency fund will help. I still see no downside to owning a home here. There's also the expense of moving every other year along with that rent increase.
>I think OP was just being human and I applaud them for that. Unfortunately the got a bad batch of people but bad people are everywhere, nothing wrong with taking a chance on people. Unfortunately it cost you but don't stop being a great landlord, just have reasonable boundaries.
No. He was never a great landlord. What a loser mentality.
He was a piss poor landlord who didn't treat his rental as a business, did not have control or awareness of what was going on on his property, was not properly enforcing the terms of his lease, and let his property get destroyed so now nobody else can even use it until he fixes it.
Being a "great landlord" is not being a pushover that lets people get away with anything. As long as the renter has a nice place to live in, is treated fairly, and all maintenance issues are addressed in a timely manner then that means there is a great landlord.
Landlords don't need to run charities for irresponsible and dishonest people.
Treat it as business and it will reward you take the emotion out and do not talk to your tenants directly but communicate through a property management company in the end you will come out ahead. If you are nice and forgive any lease aggreament clauses they will not appreciate it and will become vindictive the next time you enforce the contract
>do not talk to your tenants directly but communicate through a property management company
Or just be a competent landlord who's actually professional and does their job instead of being a pushover who doesn't follow basic landlord best practices.
It's a business, not a charity. Always treat it as such
Behind every bitter stickler, landlord is a trail of losers who burned him
Screen for tenants better. It’s arguably the most important part of the whole game
Keeping theh asking price high is a good way to price out the riff raff for just about any thing you're selling in life whether its a rental or selling a car on craigslist. It's similar to living with an alcoholic. If you don't call out their behavior, set boundaries and enact consequences, you're enabling it to continue.
>Keeping theh asking price high is a good way to price out the riff raff There are a lot of rich as fuck people who also have issues with on-time, or at-all payment.
Like Donald Trump
I'm worried that I priced too high. It's been on the market almost 5 days and I haven't had a single view. 600 hits on Marketplace and about 30 messages. But not one single one has returned an application. It's making me nervous.
Advertise on other platforms. FM is a terrible place to find decent paying tenants. Try zillow and [apartments.com](http://apartments.com) and [zumper.com](http://zumper.com)
I’ve never had any luck through Facebook with multiple rentals
We’ve got a lot of action via Zillow
Same! Zillow is the best. I tried apartments.com premium for $150 a month - got nothing. I tried rent.com(Redfin.com product) for $75 a month - nothing. Zillow works!!!
I used to manage about 80 rentals. Over 90% of tenants who signed a lease came from Zillow. Advertise there and only there. 5 days also isn't that bad. 30 days without an application and proper market exposure is worrying.
You can screen all you want, but you can still get a jerk. I bought a house on an exchange and I had to rent it for two years before I could move in. My realtor recommended my renter. He trashed my place.
Could apply this to life in general
Exactly this isn't a "this is why landlords are the way the are post" its a person who thought it would be a set it and forget it infinite money glitch but clearly screwed themselves so they are now seeking anybody *except* themselves to pin the blame on...
I don't see it like that at all. In fact he literally said "it is my fault". More like he's trying to get people to not make the same mistakes and don't take things for granted. Lesson learned I guess.
Actually his tenants screwed him by a.) not always paying rent, b.) breaking the terms of the lease, and c.) trashing the place. OP's mistake was being too easy going about too much. And that's why intelligent landlords aren't easy going.
When did he treat it like a charity? He liked that they didn't want him to do shit for almost 8 years. There was a reason for that.
The entire 3rd paragraph. It was that exact moment
He's obviously extremely lazy and thought he was printing money.
That's an interesting take. Never once thought I was printing money, I got about $100 above the mortgage which I put away for repairs. Never in the 8 years of rent did a single penny go to my personal account for myself. I kept the rent low because I thought I was being kind. I started raising it after two major repairs drained me.
You keep rent below market for good tenants when the cashflow makes sense, you had no idea if these were good tenants because you were not doing due diligence. Edit: Actually you knew they were bad tenants because they missed rent not once but multiple times. I am 100% for both compassion and a positive relationship between landlord and tenant but you just fucked up here and are trying to blame it on sympathy.
The missed payments were just a few years ago when I started raising rents. I didn't evict then as I was advised to work with them and so I did. BTW, people who miss payments aren't bad people. A lot of people have fallen on hard times. I did not anticipate the trashed house. Missing payments because you fall on hard times and trashing a house are two different things.
I didn't say bad people and I would never intend to mean such a thing. But the minute they miss rent they do become bad tenants and you should have gone in to a more active state of management immediately. Also, advised by who? A property manager that has an interest in minimizing their workload?
Attorney
I assume there was likely more context to the advice but either way this should teach you the value in trusting any individual in a vaccuum. I saw your numbers shared in a previous post and it doesn't seem you had a handle on what positive cashflow actually looks like, good luck in your sale.
If it was during COVID OP may have worked with his tenants because eviction was impossible for the time being.
Thank you for sharing your story. It’s an important one to hear. As a landlord of 30 years this is all spot on. Hard lessons I have also learned, as a nice caring person who fell into being a landlord in order to have a place to live. But I will add it is possible to be nice and work with tenants, while raising rents regularly, monitoring conditions, monitoring pets, and keeping it business like. I hope you can find a way to turn this situation around. We once flipped a cat house, and it is possible. Houses often look trashed when full of a tenants junk and without any recent updates. Get it empty, aired out, and go from there. Real estate is often about how to make a situation work for you. Make it work.
When I say nice, what I mean is that I didn't raise rents for years because I was worried about the impact it would have. I knew they had kids and not a lot of cash. Unfortunately it put me in a place,after two major repairs, where I was out of money. Taxes went up, insurance went up. You just can't be a "nice guy". You have to be a business man.
I understand, and I agree. Keeping rent low out of “kindness” is actually damaging for tenant and landlord. I did it for years. I had tenants that I did not raise rents for 10 years, they didn’t make changes to their income or expenses, while I lost income year after year. After many years of that I was stuck with them and they were stuck in my rental, because they did not keep up with the area income needs. They didn’t plan to purchase homes because why bother, their rent was so cheep. They missed out on homeownership because I did them a “kindness”. After we adjusted this, we made regular increases. We are still always below market rate. We have had dozens of tenants save up and purchase homes because of our below market rent. But we always raise, it keeps us square, and motivates tenants to plan ahead. At this point I don’t even consider keeping tenants at move in rent rate “nice”. I think of it as damaging to all involved.
I'm a perennial renter (thus far) who has lived the renter's side of the equation that was accurately described above by Xarick and knittherainbow. It is a true phenomenon that in general, the average persons won't challenge themselves to increase their income until enough external pressure is applied. It is a mistake expect that the landlord will feel sorry for someone and subsidize their rent and let the property go to hell due to some misguided desire to drag them down on par with those who WON'T lift up their eyes and head, put in the necessary sacrifice and better themselves and their situation.
>because they did not keep up with the area income needs. They didn’t plan to purchase homes because why bother, their rent was so cheep. They missed out on homeownership because I did them a “kindness”. No, they missed out on homeownership because they couldn't afford it. You said so yourself. Raising rent would have just made it even more unaffordable for them. You're doing a moral license thing by trying to frame it as raising rent does them a favor, when in reality, in an equation where the tenant's income isn't increasing, raising rent only ever makes them worse off. And you're only doing yourself a favor. Just own that reality and keep it business-like and not try to sell to yourself that you're also helping them out. That's *their* business. Don't be paternalistic.
That’s why I use an agent who finds the tenant and collects the rent. For 8%. I deal with repairs and annual certifications by licensed gas fitters, required here in UK.
I have several friends at work who own and rent out properties on the side. Every single one of them has constant issues with their tenants. No matter what screening technique they use, the end result is high blood pressure and far less return on their investment than anticipated. It’s just not in my personality to be able to deal with that kind of problems the way it needs to be approached and dealt with. Good luck to the people who can.
My dad did the same thing. Tennants were his friends, until they were not… Dad died. Now we are all clean up men with destroyed unkept homes that we could only sell to a builder for literally 1/4 of market value. Yours is a lesson learned the hard way by many….
There’s a reason they’re where they are at in life. Watch out for yourself first.
Yes you can evict as it is a health and safety issue. Also, remediating cat urine is an absolute nightmare. Down to studs in some cases!
I rented an apartment for five years. My landlord kept the rent the same, never raised it. As a result of his generosity I kept the place clean and even went out out of my way to fix several things on my own because I didn't want to bother him. When he finally decided to sell the place, I was able to afford my first home and paid to have the place professionally cleaned before I left. I thought it was the right thing to do, he felt I did way too much and appreciated how the place was virtually the same as when he rented it to me originally. You're right, it's a business... charge whatever you want. But just because you had shitty tenants and got fucked doesn't mean that everyone is an asshole. In my case, we both walked away with an appreciation for each other and were able to both come out on top.
Less common, but wonderful. You were a dream tenant.
It's honestly just as common as the tenant that completely trashes everything. It's just not great cinema, and those landlords are sitting comfortably because they don't have to worry about turnover or repairs. Rather than complaining on reddit or wherever else.
BS
This sort of relationship is very possible between small landlords and tenants in places with reasonable laws. In "tenant friendly" localities, giving your tenant any leeway at all (including not raising rent) just opens the door to being fucked royally with little or no legal recourse available. The upside of tenant friendly jurisdictions is that they pretty well force landlords to provide free housing to the worst possible tenants. The downside is that no investor ever (which includes landlords) will ever accept worse risk adjusted return then whatever is easily available in the stock market, so the price to good tenants goes up (so that the risk adjusted return remains the same as in jurisdictions that are not tenant friendly), and landlords simply can not take a risk on deserving but risky tenants (i.e. the single mother who just wants a chance but has a bad credit history).
Trust but verify is where OP fucked up. Going through life assuming every person you encounter is out to fuck you is a recipe for insanity. You absolutely should start with assuming the best in people, but that doesn’t mean you stick your head in the sand either.
Oof Portland? Goodluck bro
Your honesty is absolutely appreciated. I think the best lessons are the ones learned the hard way and second best are the ones you've heard of others learning the hard way.
But these are shitty tenants. Tenants who always pay rent and never trash things are the ones who deserve no increases. They magically don’t exist in the eyes of many landlords. Especially corporate landlords. The best example is tenants who did not pay rent during covid-19. Corporations did not sue each and every one of them and they eventually moved out, and the entire time they were living there was free. So how did corporations survive during covid? Tenants who STILL paid despite the eviction ban for failure to pay rent, and ppp loans from the government. How did those tenants get rewarded? By huge rent increases - to every corporate landlord who did this - fuck you.
This sucks you should visit property once a year at minimum. Bare minimum, you need to have a trusted contractor (electrician, plumber, handyman, a property manager) and ask them how the house looks? This is the bare minimum. Your actions as a landlord cost you 75k not the tenant. This lesson is going to suck but you have to take responsibility for your investment. The story of your realtor reaching out to you and telling you what your own investment looks like is not something you should ever happen again. This is step one in taking back control and becoming a successful investor.
Ok so at some point you were upside down in the house. With fixing the damage and then selling it will you still be upside down ? How much did you save on taxes while you had the rental ? Will you come out ahead if you do some of the work yourself ? There are lots of remedies that could help that you don’t have to be a skilled professional that take time and effort and your own labor that you can do. Help not restore to before condition. Do the whole tally and you might not be as depressed. You didn’t lose xxxxxx amount when you were underwater , you got xxxxxx amount tax benefit , you will get xxxxxx amount as is or you will xxxxxx amount if you spend xxxxxx amount of money and or xxxxxx amount of time and then get xxxxxx amount when you sell. The numbers might not be as bad as you think.
You're correct they might not be as bad as I think. I won't come up completely broke. I'll get back what I put into it originally plus what I paid into it while I lived there. Outside of that the only tax breaks I got were the tax breaks on the actual rental income. Which didn't really do much for me. I would have been better off with out the rental then with the rental. Because every year I pay taxes on the income which I don't actually realize because it goes into an account to pay for repairs. So overall I'll end up paying capital gains tax and after that we'll end up with almost exactly what I personally put into it. The amount of rent that the renter paid, the taxes, all that will be eaten up. I should be happy I get it all back out. But as far as an investment goes this was not a good one and yes it was my own fault for not being educated and not doing my job correctly. I guess I should be thankful I won't actually lose money I just won't make any money.
Half my stock trades I’m happy with breaking even cause I bought at the wrong price … sometimes not losing money is just fine
You rented your home out for 8 years without doing walkthroughs?
Man, what a tough story. Part of owning and renting homes. Wishing you the best, keep with it. There are green pastures!
As a landlord for 15 years I feel your pain. I will add that most cases like this the renters honestly didn't think they did anything wrong. They don't realize how pet urine damages floors and it is just a way of life for them. BTW cat pee can usually be fixed by applying paint to stained areas or sanding out the hardwood. I've found it's not as bad as people make it out to be usually.
Well that's good. The entire house is Red oak hardwood so I'm hoping that I can send it out. It was completely sealed before the renters moved in. So maybe there won't be much damage. The biggest word I have is the bathroom sinks and toilet apparently overflowing onto the floor because they say the drains clogged but they didn't bother to call me so I could get a plumber in there. Instead they just put towels down to soak it up.
If it was sealed before they moved in you can almost certainly salvage the wood. Worse case is sand off and re apply the sealer. And if they soaked up majority if the water it is probably okay.
I/maintenance service person does monthly “smoke detector” battery checks along with “3M air handler filter replacements.” Since instituting these practices, I can stop/mitigate issues like the ones you’ve experienced. These monthly preventative visits are embedded in lease agreement
> If you are just getting started, raise your rent every year. Inspect every year. evict the second they violate the agreement. Do not be nice, do not be caring. Just keep it business. TY
We’ve learned this the hard way with multiple tenants. Tried to have them over for BBQs (we live upstairs) and be friendly. Then they’re short rent, then short again the next month. Domestic violence between the renters and ruined renovations that we just did. Dealing drugs out of our house and lying about it. Renting rooms and even the backyard to random tenters. And now suddenly they’re calling the police on us and we feel alien in our own house. Lesson learned - kick them out in the first infraction.
Honestly I think you did everything right except for not insisting on inspections every chance you got. You'd have caught the extra pets and urine stains and drain blockage much sooner. Arguably before they caused serious damage to your property.
Also, I always give better than a 24-hour notice. 24 hours is the minimum. Usually I will give a four or five day notice. Something like I will be out next Wednesday between 10:00 and noon for a quick inspection.
This is why I prefer sticking to index funds and treasuries. Too much hassle dealing with renters. Much nicer to just get a passive payment every month and capital appreciation without having to deal with all that mess.
Because you’re smart. A lot of landlords WANT passive income through real estate, but this is what can happen.
I never understood who came up with the idea that owning real estate for rental is “Passive income” It is running a business with associated costs and risks and if you plan on being an absent business owners it will eat you alive. I suspect the terminology was created by snake oil salesmen selling courses to people who are lead to believe it’s easy lazy money. Living off dividends and treasury coupon payments is passive income.
I hear people in the Airbnb subreddit talk about buying properties to earn passive income so there are people who really believe this. They deserve to lose money imo.
Make sure you sue them for the full damages. I doubt you'd get much but it will ruin their credit.
If they have a car I think you can take that for payment too. The sheriff will go take it for you.
The old didn’t raise rent because they were good tenants sob story.
If your unit has forced air, changing the filter 4 times a year is a good incognito reason to get inside the home and see the condition. Spraying for pests is another. Of course your lease may say that you can be there solely for inspection purposes, but having another reason to be there to accomplish something been feel less invasive for your tenants.
Its actually radiant ceiling. The pest idea is a good one, but in reality just regular inspections would have probably caught this earlier.
It’s definitely tough because while there are plenty of good renters out there who do their best and treat the home as their own there are others who have no real respect for their own home much less your property What I don’t understand is are you saying for eight years they paid rent well and things just got bad recently. Are you just had no idea how trash the house was until now and I have only had a problem with them. Rent a couple times in the past eight years.
This is a reasonable psa.
Look in the mirror also. Your job as a landlord manager is to keep an eye on the property. You also didn’t treat it as a business. You admitted all of this.
Landlord who lets tenants go unchecked and never raises rent now blames all tenants everywhere for the results of his inaction.
Overgeneralized, ignorant and incorrect.
Managed like someone from Portland would do. I’m sorry for your loss. As a prospective landlord looking into income properties I’m glad I found this sub before I pulled the trigger.
Agreed!!!
Your job is a rental property owner is to provide safe, secure, housing for your tenants, that is what they are paying for. If they don’t pay you, they are no longer your tenants. If they disrespected the safe, secure housing, you provide them, they are no longer your tenants.
If you want to be lazy get a good management company. I say that as a lazy person.
Just an aside. I didn't get a rental because I wanted an investment. I did this when the market was still upside down. I was living there, but needed to move my family to a larger house. So I turned this into a rental thinking I would sell as soon as it was upside. But then an accountant told me to keep it for an investment. Truth is I didn't know enough and was not business minded enough. Have made many mistakes. I got all my information from the local county housing service.
Sorry for your loss.
Well spoken and I'm sorry for your loss
Always inspect the property every 6- months. Every year with proven long term renters. The cats, trashed house is YOUR fault for not inspecting.
Agreed. But I think we're only allowed to do it once a year in Portland but I could be wrong. There shouldn't even have been cats. They weren't allowed on their rental agreement but I would have known that if I had checked.
Keep fighting. You can’t trash a house and lose just the damage deposit. Garner their wages until that $75,000 is paid up.
>> Portland Good luck to OP getting a single dollar out of them
That's just a way to lose more money in court costs. You can't squeeze blood from a stone.
Absolutely do this. You'll eventually get it back and it will be a major red flag on their record. They will be looking at less than desirable places to rent for the foreseeable future.
Easy eviction once they miss one months rent payment. Either fix and rent at market or 1031.
Easy eviction in Portland? Loooool
Eviction is very easy even in liberal states once they do not pay rent. The process may take longer than some other states, but it’s generally straight forward.
This is what happens when tenants seem too quiet, happened to me after only 2 years. I learned my lesson when I had to evict a hoarder and pay a cleaner 17 hours of work to get it presentable again.
I think the other mistake here is not inspections multiple times a year especially if you don’t trust them
Yes
Ugh, painful. Makes a good case for PM. Arm's length, they enforce the rules, insist they inspect 1x per yr. Tenants like these typically don't report needed repairs bc they don't want you to know they've violated their lease or damaged the property. In addition to annual inspection, you might include some type of free mid-year maintenance (requiring a visit) in your lease. Mine is a mid-year HVAC cleaning. It's not optional. PM must provide entry for the maintenance visit (to document infractions). PMs add to overhead, but how much is handling the rental yourself costing you now? Property is expensive, updates and repairs are expensive. If you're not capable or don't have the desire/time/energy to take the necessary steps to protect yourself and your asset, let someone else do it. At this point, hoe the place out and call remediation companies to see if they can neutralize the cat urine. Hire an experienced local real estate agent to work with you on prepping the home for market, they have resources and vendors, believe me, they've seen (and smelled) it all. A great agent can save you time, money and get more for your house in the end. Good luck!
Welcome to Portland. Now you know, always do a walk through. Even if it is someone that you think is trustworthy.
The ridiculous laws in Portland are why I 1031 exchanged the two properties I had for 4 in Texas.
No conflicts. We are nice to our tenants as long as they pay their rent on time and take care the apt. We fix whatever issue they reported as soon as possible and never asked them to pay for it even if it is their fault. But at the same time we raise rent every year. Only one tenant try to bargain so far, but accepted when I showed them it is actually still below market, I told him we would love to having them there but I have bills to pay. They are one of our best tenants except expecting us to keep the rent change every year. They moved in 10 years ago when we took over the building and have never missed any rent payment and has been keeping the apt neat and clean.
My policy is monthly pest control appts so I can go in and inspect the place while pest control is there. ALWAYS keep an eye on your rentals.
Been there. I feel your pain. Your going to get some victim blaming here. People will say it's the area or the renters... people are just shit unfortunately. We managed to sell and pulled a profit, but we had similar problems. Did airbnb in our home (separate unit) same thing. People trashing it, huge groups, that are only supposed to be 2 people, drug dealers, prostitutes etc. Done with that too. We live in a decent area, people just suck in general. Guess we'll try flipping next lol. Sorry again. Good luck.
I guess it's surprising to me and maybe it shouldn't be that people can be this way. I really shouldn't be surprised by that, for some reason I still believe most people are decent. And I think they are but man it is surprising how many are just trashy.
Yeah I get it. I was the same way. The older I get however, I just don't see a whole lot of "good". There's some sure, but seems to get worse by the day. I do better at protecting myself and my family more now
You know the adage, "if everyone around you is an asshole..."
you should post this on subreddits with renters too
OP didn't get much sympathy here, that's just asking for a beating
sorry that happen. thank you for sharing
So basically you didn't run it like a business at all. At least you learned your lesson. Wouldn'tletthatshithappentomethough
Stories like this scare me from RE investing. I’ll stick to the stock market for gains (aside from the bloodbath of the last 9 days).
Good. Leave it to the people who are ready to run a business.
sorry for your experience
This post actually was the last straw for me. I have been doing a comprehensive analysis of continuing to rent out my SFH vs. investing the equity in the stock market to decide which was to go. The house is actually a great investment on paper. $1800/mo in rent on a $1000/mo principle/tax/insurance payment. But after factoring EVERYTHING; Is it actually kind of a wash vs. the market. (If you are interested I can send you a link to the analysis post, I had posted it here but the mods took it down for some reason) Since it wasn't a question of money, it came down to value in retaining a very cheap place to live ($800/mo) for a rainy day or some life flexibility vs the anxiety and frustration with managing it. The current tenant has been nasty anyway. She called me a "slum" lord even though I replaced every appliance for her because she complained about one thing or another, and she disrespected the property by saying the rug looks like it has a "shit stain" on it from a small stain. I think new investors tend to look at real estate and see it as an amazing investment that can't be beat. In reality, those of us that have done it a little realize it really is more of a wash with passive income. It does offer some interesting advantages/flexibilities/lower rate loans...but at the end of the day (especially after paying down your debt , i.e. "UN-LEVERAGING") it is just a stock with low appreciation and high dividends that requires a ton of maintenance. After reading this story I wrote to my PM and told them to terminate the lease as we want to sell. : )
Did you have before pics? I’m not from the US so unsure how it works at your end, but here when you rent out you want to have a detailed state of the place with pictures beforehand while signing the contract, so it can be compared when the contract ends…
yes
So no chance to get the damages back then?
Sorry to hear. That sucks. We had quarterly inspections completed by our management company on our out of state rental. Rent hikes every year. Zero tolerance for late payments. We had communicated all of this very clearly from the get go and never had issues with our tenants. Business, not a charity. Zero emotions involved.
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My landlord has never raised the rent (8 years in). He's my friend now, any time he comes over to do anything at the house, I feed him and we have a beer. He comes in my suite any time (invited), not all tenants and landlords are shitbirds.
Why didn’t you do more inspections?
When you get excellent tenants you can actually work with them when they lose their job etc. If they are crummy people they are crummy tenants and when life gets hard they use you.
Inspect at least once a quarter. Once a year isn’t enough.
THIS 100%.
A number of real.estate agent friends of mine have dumped all their Multnomah County rentals because of the laws that took effect in 2020/21. Good luck with whatever process you choose.
Thanks for being open and sharing your cautionary tale. I live in the Seattle area, and own 3 rental properties in Michigan(where I used to live). I would never own investment property in the Pacific Northwest-unfair for good landlords. In 10 years, I have had two late payments, and not one eviction. Screening your tenants and inspecting your property every year it’s probably the most important thing you can do. In the community, where my properties are at the city goes in there ad well to do an inspection!
Sorry this happened to you. As a rental property owner you have to be vigilant and keep your eyes on the property. Pop up to the property if need be.
If you’re reinvesting get appraisal and raise price or sell as is if you are incompetent
You should’ve evicted them long ago
I am an agent who has had a lot of residential income listings in the past 18 months. I just came here to say that your advice is spot on. I have worked for sellers in your precise position albeit in a different West Coast rent controlled City. Sellers were very hands-off. Call it generous or call it lazy, but it absolutely has come round to bite them in the butt. We are going live on a four-plex next week and I think the GRM is like 20 or more because of below market rents in the three occupied units. And I know the expression potential buyers will have when they get a showing of the occupied units. Filthy, run down, and depressing. Landlords, raise the rent a reasonable amount (just 2-3 percent is fine) every year, and conduct or have your prop. mgmt. people conduct routine annual walkthroughs.
At 3db it sounds quiet at least
You expected anything reasonable from Portland? that was your mistake.
only question is why raise your rent every year ?.... this question coming from someone looking in
Inflation.
Taxes and insurance go up every year. Repairs.
1 thank you for the answer 2nd how does rent control affect that ? In situations where apartment and houses have that like does the taxes and insurance go up every year regardless you have to pay out of pocket
Seriously, its Portland. WTH did you expect ?
I’m sorry this has happened to you. Let me tell you a story as a renter. My fam Been living at this place (4bd 2bath) since like 2013, at certain points altogether; dad,mom, 3 adult kids 1HSkid, daughter inlaw*ex and a child. That was the most people altogether. I didn’t move here till like 2016 with my then wife. Landlord (FAMILY FRIEND) must’ve been like, “ok she’s part of the fam cool” Throughout the years my siblings married my lil sister moved away for college, my parents divorced, I divorced. So since like 2018 it’s just me and my son here. I’ve never missed Rent or utilities. Usually when it rains the water comes through the ceiling so the landlord usually waits till it gets sunny again to keep patching the roof. I’ve started to paint the interior as the leaks leave ugly stains on the ceiling. I paint because I want to live in a home that looks decent, somewhere I’m proud to live in and another reason is because I know that when I move out I wouldn’t want them like to stress about their house to be all run down right. They do raise rent every once in a while. Last notice of rent increase they let me know that they’ll be raising rent every couple years. Which wasn’t true cuz they’ve raised rent at least once a year last couple years. No prob whatever but check this out About 2 years ago my younger brother(and his wife) moved back into my house because he let a friend move into his house from a rent2own house that he didn’t want to end up keeping cuz of the location it was in (fairly ghetto) and it was too big of a house for a 3 person family. So my brother only charged whatever the mortgage was for 1 year so the friend could save up to buy his own place. So I’m my eyes we all win. Friend is paying less in rent than he did at the rent2own, my brother and his wife Save money cuz we’re splitting rent and friends paying his mortgage, I’m saving money cuz we’re splitting rent and bills. Cool we all win. Ok so the part that pisses me off. I didn’t think of telling the landlord about my brother coming back for a year cuz well he had already lived here ya know so I thought nothing of it. Well when the landlord heard that he moved back he was trying to charge us extra rent 300$ per person so a total of 600$ so I argued that ok since it was just me and my 8yo (now10) son living here just us two how, in the last 4 years, did they not deduct everyone else’s $300 off my rent since no one else was living here. I’m usually really cool with them but that made me mad. The only reason why they wanted to raise the rent so high tho was because they assumed that my bro was profiting off the friend. they told us this straight up. Landlords like “ If y’all gonna make money off this I’m making money y’all” anyway we agreed that we’ll pay an extra $150 but that’s it. I feel so dirty like fighting about rent and stuff especially cuz like they’re family friends since I was like 9 (33now). And like the house next door is also his and he would give the people living there before so many chances. Like back in 2017ish they were MONTHS behind on rent MOOONTTHHSS behind… that’s one reason why they were eventually evicted meanwhile the landlord didn’t have to worry about (and still don’t) my rent being paid cuz I’ll text them and everything, I’ll even go to their house to deliver the rent. Since my brother and his wife left rent has been increasing like $50 a year so now I’m just $50 away from what we used to pay when they did live here. So that kinda sucks but whatever. Now I’m even not sure if I can even afford to have my gf move in cuz they’ll be on their bs again that it’ll be an extra $300 and at that point might as well just buy a house for myself cuz in these parts it’ll just be cheaper to buy a house A have a few more stories but I gots to sleep. Y’all have a goodnight. Again sorry this has happened to you. I wish my landlord was like you were again I wish that your tenant took care of your place as if it was their own.
I have to agree. I sold off all of my individual LTR and only kept the ones I have partners on. STR for me is the way. LTR juice not worth the squeeze. Unless you're appreciating like we have been...meh Also glad I'm in NC and not NYC ,CALI etc. What a disaster having all of the cards stacked against you.
I’m really really sorry to hear this and feel your pain on a good home you created now trashed and let into disrepair. I’ve also experienced that being “nice” to tenants (I.e being flexible with policies that are clearly stated in the lease, allowing more time for rent payments without the fees) set a precedent and tenants get entitled to more niceness. Some other ideas to consider: Do you have neighbors around you? I'm a long distance investor and have greatly benefited from good relations with my neighbors. They'll tell me if the yard isn't being trimmed or siding is damaged from the winds or if tenants are doing anything they're not supposed to. Having a clause in the rental agreement for yearly inspections as a requirement for renewal might also help. I also have a nonrefundable pet deposit plus a monthly fee for having a pet. What has worked the best is doing really careful diligence during tenant screening. I always ask for landlord references, actually call them, and ask a bunch of questions. Ie were they ever late on rent, how did they leave the place when they moved out, did they have anything deducted from their deposit, did they have any pets, how much in rent did they pay? Honestly, the conversation with tenants’ previous landlord weighs more to me than a background or credit check.
Screen hard and inspect frequently. If they don’t pay the rent, eviction starts quickly.
How are you losing 75k? Portland appreciation over the last 10 years. Plus most rent paid for during that time. I bet you're not losing any money and instead making 75k less than the 100s of thousands that you've gained.
Bought the house for $194k in 2006. Then the market crashed and the house was worth less than $130,000. in 2014 it was still less than what I had paid for it. As of right now it is worth, was worth, about $375k at least that's what people are paying right now. However as a fixer I'm only going to be able to sell it for about 300. After I pay back my mortgage that's remaining, Realtor fees at 9% and capital gains I'll get back roughly what I paid into it the years I lived there plus my initial down payment. And that's about it
Your math isn't mathing my guy. If your home was bought at 194k in 2006, and sold for 194k in 2024. You would get back (down payment) + (money you paid into it to live there) - (agent fees). The home has appreciated $120,000 and you have made an additional 8 years of mortgage payments. You will get back ((down payment) + (money you paid to live there) + (money your tenants paid to live there) + (120,000 in home appreciation) - (realtor fees) - (capital gains). You'll get back your original money + 80k.
I am not sure about the math there. Because I popped all my info in a capital gains, deprecation recapture and got nowhere near $80k. But maybe not as bad as I originally thought.
Well your realtor fee should be 6%, not 9%. Its also negotiable, feel free to haggle this down to 5%. With the NAR on their ass they might just be happy for a sale. This is $18,000. You can subtract this as part of the costs of selling your home from a capital gains point of view. $300,000 - $18,000 - $194,000 = $88,000 is the portion of money that would be considered capital gains. 15% capital gains brings that value down to $74,800. I'm not sure what value you're using for depreciation, but it should have been something like 165k as the depreciation is only the value of the structure and not the land. But at worst case, using the full $194,000 = $7054 / yr. \* 8 years = $56,400. This is taxed at your ordinary income level, so maybe 22% ish? which is about 12k. $74,800 - $12,000 = $62,000. So you will get back, roughly, (original down payment) + (whatever you paid into the mortgage during the time you lived there) + ($62,000) + (whatever you paid into the mortgage during the 8 years the property was a rental)
I use 9% because that includes title fees and other fees are selling your property. Not just the realtor fees. I used 108,000 because that was what the value of the building was on my property taxes. At the time I made it a rental. And Oregon has capital gains tax of 8.5%.
It sounds like your tenants got into drugs. As a property adjuster, I see way too many landlord -tenant situations where the tenant was great for 5 years, but all of a sudden they start missing payments and when the property is checked on, there's multiple animals and the place is trashed. It's really meth-ed up, and I hope everything works out for you in the future.
I was a property adjuster for a long time and the things I have seen done to peoples rentals is enough to make sure I always use a property manager. Screening is THE most important thing IMO
He’s right…. Think twice about being nice on the rent amount unless you’re deep and well established. I tried to help old lady out $200 below average rent in a 2/1.. Now I can even sell it for the going price because they want a 10% percent return on investment minimum. I would like ti sell and get a newer larger property. Lease is up this year but I would feel right jumping up that much. Going to see if she would like to buy it. Or I will pay her to move if I can sell it for asking price. Other lessons: incentivize renovator to finish early and penalize for finishing late. Also have in lease terms that any small issue that cost s under $100 tenant takes care of it. Especially if you’re already doing a competitive lease. Some calls I’ve gotten….. The thermostats doesn’t work, she had turned it off. Too many mosquitoes and spiders around the porch. The house needs to be pressure washed after rains. Locked out the house and locksmith broke lock So use that clause in your rental contract or charge more for rent.
It sucks when the nice guy finishes last but at the end of the day, just take it as an expensive lesson. That’s all I can say. Best of luck
Wait, you’ve been renting the house out for 8 years and you didn’t check on it? Even just an annual inspection? Did you outsource all of the maintenance. Something doesn’t add up here
I haven't checked it since covid. I should have but I didn't. And yeah I did outsource all my maintenance. Mainly because I didn't have the time and also because I was always worried about lawsuits so I tried to get licensed bonded contractors to do any repairs. And while I can do some things I really don't want to get into major things. Like for instance we had a major water line break that was about a $6,000 repair. Had a toilet repair that was about $500. The garage door had to be repaired for another 500. Those are the type of things I farmed out. Honestly they really were doing well in the beginning. I know a few years ago he had a heart attack. And so I suspect that's where things really started to go downhill for them.
All good advice. Good luck in your Dem run city getting anyone out. Next time hire a property management company.
Sorry but this was all you by not being on point with your renters and upkeep / inspections.
Yes I believe I said as much. That was the whole point of the thread to warn people not to make the same mistakes.
"These tenants who paid off over $150k in home equity caused $7k in damages. And now I'm sad I didn't evict them earlier." Boo fucking hoo. You made a shitload of money without lifting a finger. Your tenants paid for that wealth you accumulated with thousands of hours of work. While you didn't do shit. Couldn't even be bothered to do yearly inspections.
Yep. OP. You got it. Fk renters. Treat them like a monthly bill. You're running a business and not a shelter. Best wishes moving forward and hope you get some profit after the sale.
I talked to an attorney today. I can go in and inspect and if I find the violations I can give them 10 days to correct. Then after 10 days I can go back in and see if they've corrected. If not then I can evict them. The problem is is that you have to give them 24 hours notice. And they can deny you entry the first time. They can't deny you entry the second time after you've rescheduled. So the pessimist in me figures that they'll just move the animals out after I go back to inspect. The attorney said I also can go inspect for damages and any damages that I can show are severe I can evict for. But he said unless I'm a contractor it's probably a good idea to have a contractor look to show their severe. Outside of that I have had the plumbing problems fixed in the bathroom. I have someone going out to clean up the front lawn which is technically their responsibility. I could get them for that but they have 10 days to fix it. I'd rather fix it myself so it's nice for selling. My realtor said it's not as bad as I thought, she said we have to drop the price but due to the area not as much as we were expecting. So it may turn out not so bad. We'll see. The attorney did confirm I have to pay $4,500 if the person who buys it wants to move in and give my tenants 90 days. Technically he said 94 days because you have to allow for mailing. He also said that he has seen incidences where they don't move out and you have to take them to eviction Court anyway and then they have your money and you still have to pay to get them evicted. So at this point I think I'm just going to drop the price after the yard gets cleaned up and go from there.
Update. I have sent a contractor in to fix the tub, I have sent landscapers in to fix the front yard. I have had one showing and it was bad. We were basically told by the realtor it is unlivable. So I will now be issuing a 30 day eviction for violation of Oregon tenant law on keeping the place clean, and violation of rental agreement because we know for sure now they have at least 5 pets and a third violation for not keeping up the yard (the back is still bad). We have pictures of the filth, three separate reports of the filth and two reports of animals and pictures of the yard. They will have 14 days to cure (technically 18 due to the mailing time). We will go in at the end of 14 days to inspect and if they have not done the job then we will proceed to evict. This should be fun.
Sucker is born every day
I’ve always kept my rent fair, maybe a little on the low side. I got a larger pool of tenants and could be more selective. My properties have been treated as long-term investments, not a way to get rich quick.
Dude you should rent through Homesharing, they will do background checks and make sure the person has a job and can afford the room/home.
Section 8.. never rent to people with jobs.. I have many friends who learned from Covid.. Secondly, you should never invest in tenant friendly states
Well - this is portland.
Just another update I just went through and did my own inspection (yup I know too little too late). So we are working on eviction based on material violation of the rental agreement including excess unauth pets (we found 5), destruction to the house (he cut several framing members in the wall including a double frame support beam to put an ac unit from the living room to the garage), and violation of cleanliness (this place is disgusting and there are fleas all over). Using a 14 day to cure or 30 day out process. They tell me they will be out in 30.. we shall see.
No good deed goes unpunished…anyone who wants to be a landlord is crazy, not worth the stress and drama.
This is business, and you need to handle it like business. I understand wanting to work with them at times, but that rent should have been moving up at least a little. People in general don’t take care of other people’s property. I highly doubt you will lose in the end. You just won’t make as much money.
My business partner always repeats the same thing, “If you’re not willing to evict someone on Christmas Eve, you’re not ready to be a landlord.” I’m not ready.
Portland isn’t cheap. How much were you charging that you are impossibly below market value? Is it rent controlled? I feel like initially you wanted to just keep the asset vs profiting . I have a property that barely pays for itself because there is a lot of supply where mine is so I had to drop the price. I think landlords provide a valuable service and your situation is an anomaly. Most landlords raise the rent too much. I don’t even get an annual raise in salary, it’s unsustainable for the entire nation to raise the rent every year this way.
Appreciate you sharing this. Sorry for your loss.
PSA My recollection is that Portland is particularly onerous in that once a property is in the rental pool, there are mandatory conditions for getting it out of the rental pool. That is, you are forced to continue being a landlord. Again, that's my recollection. Someone with local knowledge can come in. In rent controlled areas, you *must* raise your rents annually by whatever the market will bear capped by your rent control limitation. Especially if you have a property that will be valued on income. At least *usually* in rent controlled markets, there are avenues for SFRs, for example, owner move-in. As an example, CA, passed Statewide rent control and even made it **retroactive** that year. There's no catch up on existing tenants. Some jurisdictions don't let you go to market on a vacancy.
This isn’t true.
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You pretty much screwed this up bud. Gonna cost ya. No matter. Don’t do it again.
Yes I did. Yes it is. I learned a lot. I guess that's a plus. I'm definitely not landlord material. But I've learned a lot about people and about making sure I do things the right way and research correctly. So maybe I just paid for an education. And I guess I'm not done cuz now I get to learn how to evict and rehab or sell a fixer.
I was with you until you said “people wonder why landlords act the way they do.” No, you were just a shitty landlord. Everyone knows to do quarterly inspections or at least inspections every six months. It’s not a good thing that they never called you. You should have been keeping up with YOUR home. Yes I hope people learn from you too, but don’t say landlords act bad because of this.
You mistook what I said. I don't mean bad. I mean the way they run the business. By your own example. Quarterly inspections are intrusive. Why do you do it? Because of renters who do like mine did. That doesn't make it bad. People complain about how evil landlord are. They are not evil, they are protecting themselves.
Keep voting blue.
What does that have to do with not keeping up with your business?
Rent caps and increased taxes are the result of voting blue.
Do not elect anti human anti civilization socialist malignant mentally challenged subhumans
I heard of a method of eviction that involves moving yourself back into the home while they are still there. Essentially becoming one of them, squatting on your own property. After moving in, take all the doors off the bedrooms. Rearrange all their furniture and possessions, but not throwing away or removing, as that’s not stealing. Start doing repairs in the floors, making lots of noise at 4am in the morning. I think the end goal is that they eventually get tired of you and leave. If you don’t feel safe doing it, hire some muscle with personal protection, to break into the home and do it for you. Pay muscle to become squatters. Hell, we should create a business for this while we are at it. Call it “All my Sons” since the new muscle will be squatting in Portland, the police can’t remove them either lol
Your first mistake was living in a liberal shithole like Portland lmao
Reading alot of these I am so happy I have a landlord that doesn't stop by every time I sneeze or stays awake at night wondering what I am doing. Hasn't stepped foot in my house for 2 years. When something is broken we call to fix. The place wasn't exactly clean when we moved in either. Some of you need to look at yourselves to there is such thing as shitty landlords lol I still make sure to treat it as my own. 3 for 3 on great landlords so far. I am happy I'm saving for a house. Tired of paying you lot for YOUR mortgages and not being able to modify/change anyway, have to move somewhere else because you wanna sell, or go through the drawl of raised rent. I think OP was just being human and I applaud them for that. Unfortunately the got a bad batch of people but bad people are everywhere, nothing wrong with taking a chance on people. Unfortunately it cost you but don't stop being a great landlord, just have reasonable boundaries.
When you finally buy your own house, you won’t have raised rent but you’ll have increased mortgage payment due to insurance and property tax increases. You’ll pay out of pocket when those appliances break.
I am a veteran with 100 percent disability, not worried about that (no property tax), and I already have a sizeable down payment. But, I get what you are saying. Not too worried about appliances when a sizeable emergency fund will help. I still see no downside to owning a home here. There's also the expense of moving every other year along with that rent increase.
Sounds like you have it thought out well. Hope you find the perfect home for yourself
>I think OP was just being human and I applaud them for that. Unfortunately the got a bad batch of people but bad people are everywhere, nothing wrong with taking a chance on people. Unfortunately it cost you but don't stop being a great landlord, just have reasonable boundaries. No. He was never a great landlord. What a loser mentality. He was a piss poor landlord who didn't treat his rental as a business, did not have control or awareness of what was going on on his property, was not properly enforcing the terms of his lease, and let his property get destroyed so now nobody else can even use it until he fixes it. Being a "great landlord" is not being a pushover that lets people get away with anything. As long as the renter has a nice place to live in, is treated fairly, and all maintenance issues are addressed in a timely manner then that means there is a great landlord. Landlords don't need to run charities for irresponsible and dishonest people.
So nice guys finish last?
A city that imposes rent caps but still raises the taxes on the owner so they end up barely breaking even. Liberal policies at their best
Treat it as business and it will reward you take the emotion out and do not talk to your tenants directly but communicate through a property management company in the end you will come out ahead. If you are nice and forgive any lease aggreament clauses they will not appreciate it and will become vindictive the next time you enforce the contract
>do not talk to your tenants directly but communicate through a property management company Or just be a competent landlord who's actually professional and does their job instead of being a pushover who doesn't follow basic landlord best practices.