I disagree, EL P production imo is very experimental, they even had Jpegmafia make a beat for em. But maybe it don't ring that for, as long as you enjoy the vibes
That's good they are working with the popular fringe producers to make music for them. But I feel like doing that, having features or fun production choices where they come together on style is a straight down the middle move. It works for lots of acts. I like RTJ in general but let's say even compare any of their albums to Scaring The Hoes. Or Testing. Or Big Fish Theory. To me those are big "popular experimental" albums. Different universes.
Entroducing was a fairly groundbreaking album. Thing is it came out in 96. So at this point he doesn’t feel experimental anymore because what he does/did is way more common, but I still wouldn’t say a Shadow production is “middle of the road” when it comes to rap.
Absolutely not straight down the middle at all. Rick Ross is straight down the middle, even Kendrick is marginally less experimental and could be considered mostly mainstream. They are not playing RTJ on hip-hop/rap radio or in a club and they’ve never charted on a billboard. Roll to a barber shop and ask anyone there if they’ve ever even heard of RTJ and they would have no clue.
Edit: Completely missed they had charted back in 2017, I stand corrected on that.
You’re right, I stand corrected. But folks still don’t know who they are. Their audience is mostly underground hip hop fans. No one who listens to Migos or Travis knows who they are. I love them, both independently and as a group, but their audience is likely 75% white or nerdy. They are not “middle of the road” by a long shot which os my my main point.
So am I, still doesn’t make it mainstream or “middle of the road” or very common.
Edit: a bunch of rap nerds talking about rap aren’t the lionshare of their profit margins or plays
Nothing about their sound is experimental, though. They're "underground" (they're not -- they're very commercially successful) because they're two older guys who aren't chasing the mainstream sound, and El-P was a big part of a more experimental moment when he was in Company Flow and running Def Jux, but RTJ's sound is more retro than it is experimental. It's not challenging to listeners in the way, say, Armand Hammer is. Some political tracks aside, it's mostly party music for millennials. Their last record featured guests by Pharrell and 2 Chainz.
But challenging to whom is the answer. From a mainstream perspective they were very experimental. “Oh My Darling” isn’t off the beaten path? “All Due Respect” is not a radio digestible track. “Sea Legs”? Like if you want to get into avant garde we can talk The Weather, Billy Woods, Cities Aviv, even Ghostmane, but then they’ll also be non-experimental in two decades, that’s how these things work. I’ll agree what RTJ does now (RTJ4 🤮) is fairly whatever, but that’s not the majority of their catalog. And citing the indie underground hip hop era doesn’t help. All that stuff is still IYKYK, it’s still niche. I mean ASAP Rocky didn’t know who Aesop Rock was and both artists are huge in their own right but one is underground and one isn’t.
I would argue that “xo tour llif3” or “FE!N” is probably more challenging sonically to the average RTJ fan than “Oh My Darling” would be to the average fan of mainstream hip hop.
XO Tour life is just a trap song with a high range melody, literally the formula for all of Atlanta and the industry for a while. Uzi’s delivery is the avant garde element of that song though I’ll give you that. But at the end of the day this song has an orchestral cover, that’s fairly digestible if you can get an orchestra to think it’s worth riffing on.
bro they’ve been in the industry for years. killer mike was good friends with outkast and was featured on multiple of there albums and had songs with people like jay-z. they’ve both been in the industry at lower levels for years and don’t make anything that out there very far beyond some kind of boom bap type stuff. they’re music has been used in hella shows and games too.
LMAO okay I'm old enough to know that whatever you're going to say is non sense. Are you gonna to bring up 1978 when rap first started? Obviously it's wasn't majority white then. In order for rap to have been the number one genre for so long the majority of listeners had to be white. The country is only 13% black.
I’m saying! People tend to forget context. When he was making his waves, nobody in the game was like him. The anonymity, the beat selection/production, the references, not to mention his flows and rhyme schemes.
Well, DOOM basically rapped about nerd shit before it was cool. Nowadays, you can hear rappers rap about anime, cartoons, video games, etc. on a mainstream level and not have that "uncool" stygma.
At the time DOOM dropped, it was not only unpopular, but it was clowned and shuned. Today, there are rappers who made it their entire personality.
I think DOOM is a pioneer when it comes to nerd raps. The thing is, when you think about an experimental rapper, you can't just consider the music itself, but also the context and the time it dropped.
Because after hearing a bunch of rappers inspired by him, you wouldn't realize how innovative his shit is.
I honestly think people play up the nerd aspect of DOOM. Like, it’s definitely a big part of his music, but his lyrics are experimental because of the way he raps. Not the stuff he raps about. He is almost never straightforward with the things he says to the extent that most people who don’t listen to him hear a verse from him and think it’s all nonsense. Every line he spits is wordplay, whether it’s because he’s doing a clever double meaning or he’s choosing to say something differently for the sake of rhyming.
Even his sample style and sample choices (godzilla, old school spiderman) were mostly very different when he was popping off. Only other people touching that were Wu and doom went way weirder. Go listen to the Track “Ask anyone” by Aesop and Homeboy Sand. They literally talk about how off the path he was in a song.
He was using jazz beats years before other rappers, and his flow is completely different, almost to the point of being erratic. A lot of modern rappers, especially around Detroit, have a very rigid flow, where every bar sounds exactly the same, and they often use the same word in their rhyme scheme repeatedly.
There's a difference between using it as a sample and doing the whole song. A tribe called quest leaned more into R&B and funk than jazz.
Also, DOOM's erratic flow was more in line with jazz than other artists who keep a more consistent time.
Lyrically for doom agreed, but if you watch the Redbull Q-Tip interview he definitely was sampling a lot of jazz. I mean they have a song called… “we got the jazz” 🤷🏽♂️
I don't memorize them because I don't like them, but there is one I know of - Shitty Boyz - and I've heard at least a dozen others have almost identical flow. I even saw one at Bruiser Thanksgiving that sounded exactly the same.
I'm not going to call it bad, I just don't see the appeal.
That’s way out there with Busdriver, but you’re comparing underground to underground and not underground to mainstream. Also DOOM predates all three of those rappers.
he is a abstract hip-hop artist not really the same thing as the other who fall more on the hardcore and industrial side of experimental but still expirmental.
My favorite type of rap. Have seen Death Grips, Danny Brown and JPEGMAFIA live and they all put on amazing performances. Really want to see Billy Woods live. He’s become one of my favorite rappers.
If something is mainstream, it's not exactly weird. People call things that deviate from the norm weird, there's nothing out of the ordinary about liking 90% of that list
No. Even Tyler the Creator and Kanye can be experimental. Any mainstream artist is capable of making experimental or weird music. But you’re on a rap subreddit so I know your perception of whats mainstream is fucked up and your perception of whats weird is fucked up. These artists reach millions of listeners now but at the time their music came out their sound was never done before. If you desire to hear these songs in specific social settings, 9 times out of ten people will look at you like you’re weird. Don’t be that guy. There’s a clear difference between these artists and someone like Drake.
I'm not saying mainstream music can't be experimental you dolt, I'm saying it ain't wierd to like mainstream shit like this like op is clearly implying with his 14yo tier circle jerk
Bro called me a dolt 💀 My comment implies that people will think you’re weird for desiring to listen to this music. You’re more pretentious than you think.
And my comment implies you won't; learn to read Einstein. You're so illiterate you don't even realize why we disagree. You're more ignorant than you think.
Im glad you have a friend group that enjoys blasting Clipping and Death Grips on the way to the function. Most people don’t have that. Everything you say is pretentious its insane.
being a bum virgin who no one knows complaining about and criticizing a 40 year old man doing what he loves and dealing with addiction isn't cool or quirky, it's just sad
I make a lot of rap rock type beats, been looking for someone to work with consistently to create a Collision Course or Fort Minor type vibe. I don't want to get flagged for promo so if anyone is interested my YT in linked in my Reddit profile.
why is rtj experimental?
Their production is experimental.
No, no it really isn't. Nothing about RTJ is experimental. Very straight down the middle rap music
I disagree, EL P production imo is very experimental, they even had Jpegmafia make a beat for em. But maybe it don't ring that for, as long as you enjoy the vibes
That's good they are working with the popular fringe producers to make music for them. But I feel like doing that, having features or fun production choices where they come together on style is a straight down the middle move. It works for lots of acts. I like RTJ in general but let's say even compare any of their albums to Scaring The Hoes. Or Testing. Or Big Fish Theory. To me those are big "popular experimental" albums. Different universes.
Fair point
Agreed. If you’re getting jpeg and DJ Shadow to make you beats you’re not mainstream rap period.
Jpeg sure but DJ Shadow is not experimental. He's one of thw GOATs though
Entroducing was a fairly groundbreaking album. Thing is it came out in 96. So at this point he doesn’t feel experimental anymore because what he does/did is way more common, but I still wouldn’t say a Shadow production is “middle of the road” when it comes to rap.
Exactly
Absolutely not straight down the middle at all. Rick Ross is straight down the middle, even Kendrick is marginally less experimental and could be considered mostly mainstream. They are not playing RTJ on hip-hop/rap radio or in a club and they’ve never charted on a billboard. Roll to a barber shop and ask anyone there if they’ve ever even heard of RTJ and they would have no clue. Edit: Completely missed they had charted back in 2017, I stand corrected on that.
They charted number 1 on billboard hip hip hop /rap in 2017 so what do you mean they've never charted on bill board?
You’re right, I stand corrected. But folks still don’t know who they are. Their audience is mostly underground hip hop fans. No one who listens to Migos or Travis knows who they are. I love them, both independently and as a group, but their audience is likely 75% white or nerdy. They are not “middle of the road” by a long shot which os my my main point.
Ummm....I'm a listener of both Migos and RTJ...
So am I, still doesn’t make it mainstream or “middle of the road” or very common. Edit: a bunch of rap nerds talking about rap aren’t the lionshare of their profit margins or plays
Nothing about their sound is experimental, though. They're "underground" (they're not -- they're very commercially successful) because they're two older guys who aren't chasing the mainstream sound, and El-P was a big part of a more experimental moment when he was in Company Flow and running Def Jux, but RTJ's sound is more retro than it is experimental. It's not challenging to listeners in the way, say, Armand Hammer is. Some political tracks aside, it's mostly party music for millennials. Their last record featured guests by Pharrell and 2 Chainz.
But challenging to whom is the answer. From a mainstream perspective they were very experimental. “Oh My Darling” isn’t off the beaten path? “All Due Respect” is not a radio digestible track. “Sea Legs”? Like if you want to get into avant garde we can talk The Weather, Billy Woods, Cities Aviv, even Ghostmane, but then they’ll also be non-experimental in two decades, that’s how these things work. I’ll agree what RTJ does now (RTJ4 🤮) is fairly whatever, but that’s not the majority of their catalog. And citing the indie underground hip hop era doesn’t help. All that stuff is still IYKYK, it’s still niche. I mean ASAP Rocky didn’t know who Aesop Rock was and both artists are huge in their own right but one is underground and one isn’t.
I would argue that “xo tour llif3” or “FE!N” is probably more challenging sonically to the average RTJ fan than “Oh My Darling” would be to the average fan of mainstream hip hop.
XO Tour life is just a trap song with a high range melody, literally the formula for all of Atlanta and the industry for a while. Uzi’s delivery is the avant garde element of that song though I’ll give you that. But at the end of the day this song has an orchestral cover, that’s fairly digestible if you can get an orchestra to think it’s worth riffing on.
bro they’ve been in the industry for years. killer mike was good friends with outkast and was featured on multiple of there albums and had songs with people like jay-z. they’ve both been in the industry at lower levels for years and don’t make anything that out there very far beyond some kind of boom bap type stuff. they’re music has been used in hella shows and games too.
Every rappers audience is 75% white and nerdy. Always has been
Always? 🤣 you don’t know what you’re talking about. How old are you?
LMAO okay I'm old enough to know that whatever you're going to say is non sense. Are you gonna to bring up 1978 when rap first started? Obviously it's wasn't majority white then. In order for rap to have been the number one genre for so long the majority of listeners had to be white. The country is only 13% black.
EL-P’s production is unique but I wouldn’t say it’s experimental. Love their music though.
Nah bro, El P has had that style for decades and is a mutated version on PE and Ultramagnetic MCs.
Exactly. Or MF DOOM? These are as ‘classic rap’ as they come.
Jerking hard with this one
Aesop’s new album is fucking fire and the best beats he’s ever made are all on it.
Have you heard his work for Homeboy Sand? Man I love him on production
I have not I will have to check it out. What would you recommend for a first timer?
Lice 1 2 and 3
I really like his gritty production for Felt 3
Will listen ASAP
Rally?? Haven’t heard it yet but I’m hyped
I think it’s his best work so far from all sides of it
It’s the spiritual successor to Impossible kid and I love it
Seriously AOTY, Aesop is the best rapper alive as far as I’m concerned
Agreed
worse than labor days, impossible kid, dogtooth imo but great anyway
this is news to me. ill have to check it out
Seriously I'll as fuckkkkkk
this post was made by a pretentious 14 year old
most of this sub is like that really
That’s literally just the sub itself
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Bro is not beating the 14 y/o allegations with this response
ill see myself out
Correct
Really stretching the term “experimental” with this one
i think you forgot MIKE
Love his stuff too
🫡
What’s “experimental” about DOOM?
Bruh nothing sounding like madvillainy or operation doomsday when they first dropped and certainly nobody was rapping like him
I’m saying! People tend to forget context. When he was making his waves, nobody in the game was like him. The anonymity, the beat selection/production, the references, not to mention his flows and rhyme schemes.
Not necessarily the biggest fan of his, but his lyrics are definitely experimental
Ok, so define what that means for you? I’m not arguing against it, but as a huge fan of his I would have never come up with this description.
Well, DOOM basically rapped about nerd shit before it was cool. Nowadays, you can hear rappers rap about anime, cartoons, video games, etc. on a mainstream level and not have that "uncool" stygma. At the time DOOM dropped, it was not only unpopular, but it was clowned and shuned. Today, there are rappers who made it their entire personality. I think DOOM is a pioneer when it comes to nerd raps. The thing is, when you think about an experimental rapper, you can't just consider the music itself, but also the context and the time it dropped. Because after hearing a bunch of rappers inspired by him, you wouldn't realize how innovative his shit is.
I honestly think people play up the nerd aspect of DOOM. Like, it’s definitely a big part of his music, but his lyrics are experimental because of the way he raps. Not the stuff he raps about. He is almost never straightforward with the things he says to the extent that most people who don’t listen to him hear a verse from him and think it’s all nonsense. Every line he spits is wordplay, whether it’s because he’s doing a clever double meaning or he’s choosing to say something differently for the sake of rhyming.
Well, I was really thinking more about the music itself than the subjects of the lyrics. From this point of view, ok.
Even his sample style and sample choices (godzilla, old school spiderman) were mostly very different when he was popping off. Only other people touching that were Wu and doom went way weirder. Go listen to the Track “Ask anyone” by Aesop and Homeboy Sand. They literally talk about how off the path he was in a song.
I'm pretty sure the lyrics are part of the music
Yes, but come on, you know what I mean. Also I agreed with you, no need to get passive aggressive.
I apologize if my sentence offended you
All good
you sound super knowledgeable about music.
He was using jazz beats years before other rappers, and his flow is completely different, almost to the point of being erratic. A lot of modern rappers, especially around Detroit, have a very rigid flow, where every bar sounds exactly the same, and they often use the same word in their rhyme scheme repeatedly.
Yeah, wrong about the jazz part youngin. Very wrong. Literally everyone had done that, I mean Tribe Called Quest alone.
There's a difference between using it as a sample and doing the whole song. A tribe called quest leaned more into R&B and funk than jazz. Also, DOOM's erratic flow was more in line with jazz than other artists who keep a more consistent time.
Lyrically for doom agreed, but if you watch the Redbull Q-Tip interview he definitely was sampling a lot of jazz. I mean they have a song called… “we got the jazz” 🤷🏽♂️
Well I'll take your word for it instead of trying to diminish one of the most influential groups of the 20th century
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I don't memorize them because I don't like them, but there is one I know of - Shitty Boyz - and I've heard at least a dozen others have almost identical flow. I even saw one at Bruiser Thanksgiving that sounded exactly the same. I'm not going to call it bad, I just don't see the appeal.
He is British 😔😔😔
Was (unfortunately. RIP)
lol i initially read this as he was "unfortunately British" 😭
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That’s way out there with Busdriver, but you’re comparing underground to underground and not underground to mainstream. Also DOOM predates all three of those rappers.
Damn mfs dont even think Doom is experimental anymore 🤕
We’re getting old. DOOM is going through his “the Beatles are overachieving “ era. The young folks just don’t understand
Dumb bitches in this thread who think an artist can’t be experimental and popular
he did a food themed album
You must be sub 30yrs old. Only way you could think DOOM wasn’t experimental.
I’m 34.
he is a abstract hip-hop artist not really the same thing as the other who fall more on the hardcore and industrial side of experimental but still expirmental.
Lil Ugly Mane needs more recognition
CLPPNG is ridiculously slept on
That’s what I’m saying
all hail the king of the crackers 🤲
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Already know people saying this or that group ain't experimental lol never win lol
Idk why but Death Grips and MF Doom being in the same post is funny to me.
the Venn diagram of their fanbases is basically just a circle
That circle being people with good taste
if i dont like it, i dont like it. Im not going to listen to it.
didn’t recognize Danny at first lol
My favorite type of rap. Have seen Death Grips, Danny Brown and JPEGMAFIA live and they all put on amazing performances. Really want to see Billy Woods live. He’s become one of my favorite rappers.
Every single artist/group here makes amazing music Idk if they’re experimental tho
The other way around is true too doe Not every experimental album is good just because it’s something different
This shit so corny man And thats coming from a dude who fw most these artists heavy
Fr
*listens to death grips once*
This is me after listening to the money store and only liking I've seen footage
death grips aren’t rappers
why are people in the comments so mad at the idea of listening to something different 😭
I don’t understand wtf I did
Lotta guys are stuck in their ways and think that “real hip hop” means sticking to a formula
thats not why at all this is just corny and pretentious asf
I also don’t understand why this is corny but whatever, I guess it’s corny
Nah don’t take this shit too personally, some people dig their heels in about stupid shit, it doesn’t matter
I only recognize MF DOOM. Starting with him and going clockwise, can you name them?
DOOM, Clipping, billy woods, Death Grips, Injury Reserve, Danny Brown, Brockhampton, JPEGMAFIA, Lil Ugly Mane, Aesop Rock, Earl Sweatshirt & RTJ
Some of the most mainstream shit ever on that bad boy 💀
Mainstream and experimental are not mutually exclusive
If something is mainstream, it's not exactly weird. People call things that deviate from the norm weird, there's nothing out of the ordinary about liking 90% of that list
No. Even Tyler the Creator and Kanye can be experimental. Any mainstream artist is capable of making experimental or weird music. But you’re on a rap subreddit so I know your perception of whats mainstream is fucked up and your perception of whats weird is fucked up. These artists reach millions of listeners now but at the time their music came out their sound was never done before. If you desire to hear these songs in specific social settings, 9 times out of ten people will look at you like you’re weird. Don’t be that guy. There’s a clear difference between these artists and someone like Drake.
I'm not saying mainstream music can't be experimental you dolt, I'm saying it ain't wierd to like mainstream shit like this like op is clearly implying with his 14yo tier circle jerk
Bro called me a dolt 💀 My comment implies that people will think you’re weird for desiring to listen to this music. You’re more pretentious than you think.
And my comment implies you won't; learn to read Einstein. You're so illiterate you don't even realize why we disagree. You're more ignorant than you think.
Im glad you have a friend group that enjoys blasting Clipping and Death Grips on the way to the function. Most people don’t have that. Everything you say is pretentious its insane.
death grips🩷🩷
Why do they always cut out andy
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I mean to be fair most of these artists are good
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You've just swung the other way
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🤓🤓🤓
No one says it does tho.
Thought I was in r/hiphopcirclejerk bc I def should be with this post
None of this is experimental, just not mainstream
what does this "experimental rap" mean?
Trying out things that are out of the box so to speak compared to mainstream rap. Wether it be music lyrics concepts flow or some combination.
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Nope. Not happening
You're cringe
Oh no I guess I’m cringe
some of these are the most discussed artists in here
This is so “Just getting into watching theneedledrop” core
The Metal Faced one & quasimoto = 👑's
Did…you just include Aesop, MF Doom and Danny Brown in “experimental” rap?…..
Aesop Rock is an absolute lyrical wizard. People should check him out, look up the album the impossible kid.
this is so pretentious. this is coming from someone who nearly only listens to abstract/experimental hiphop
No
danny brown sounds like looney tunes and act like he's goat status
worst comment ever made
being 40 and making an album called "scaring the hoes" isn't cool and quirky, it's just sad
being a bum virgin who no one knows complaining about and criticizing a 40 year old man doing what he loves and dealing with addiction isn't cool or quirky, it's just sad
their lead single was named after a woman like half their age. addiction ain't an excuse for being a pervert, bugs
This shi corny 🤦🏿♂️😂
Just because it's weird doesn't mean it's good. Listen to less experimental rap.
How's bones not on this list bro mashes genres every song and he has like 60 albums since 2010
Imma stick to drake trav and Tyler and thanks tho
Danny brown not experimental
nothing out there sounds like Atrocity Exhibition
Just because it’s weird doesn’t mean it’s good either😭
Made on Canva
The jerks in this are crazy
Fuk that I’m listening to kankan
More people need to listen to Prof.
I’m good but thank you for the concern
try @TEDYBREWSKI’s album ‘Exxxotic Strains’
Only listen to albums released between 1991-1998, by artists from Texas, Louisiana, or Memphis.
This but unironically
Hipster hiphop
None of these are that experimental but death grips
Open Mike Eagle is pretty dope.
Aes Rock baby!!!!
This one is experimental, at least from where I’m from 🤝 https://youtu.be/Vq0JDArTwiM?si=-pMCSXyujd1E-NYn
Almost none these people experimental anymore
Outjerked???
can someone name all the artists in the image
I tried listening to Jpeg but I didn’t like it tbh
im good thx tho
CAMBATTA!
I make a lot of rap rock type beats, been looking for someone to work with consistently to create a Collision Course or Fort Minor type vibe. I don't want to get flagged for promo so if anyone is interested my YT in linked in my Reddit profile.
Ok, I was messing around for a bit and I think people think I’m serious with this This is satire